EPISODE 3

[upper otter]

house

[wind timber]

all of them, most factions are said to decline no matter what

[upper otter]

or yes man independant

im still hoping theyll do a yes man reveal instead of house

[wind timber]

They'll do both

Yes Man physically cannot die so he'll be sticking around somewhere lol

[upper otter]

thats what i meant like they help house or something and the big screen just flashes to yes man

or they need his help to get to house

i just dont know what theyd explain the platinum chip because the bot in the sunset factory had the mk2 face

[wind timber]

No matter what the chip was likely delivered and taken to the fort

[upper otter]

and victor even said house didnt get cold fusion before the war

[wind timber]

You can activate the fort securitrons with no consequences with any faction

So the writers can go as far as that

[upper otter]

is the chip meant to have the cold fusion thing in it?

[wind timber]

Why would it?

the chip is basically just a super key lol

[upper otter]

it powers the fort securatrons and the lucky 38

[wind timber]

it acts as a data storage device

no it doesnt power them, but it transfers needed data

House needed that advanced software downloaded to his securitrons and lucky 38, that data was in the chip

[upper otter]

house was running on reserve power for like 200 years until the chip was brought

[wind timber]

Yes, he needed the new firmware and data from the chip to upgrade the lucky 38s systems

[cedar lotus]

Primm we see Helios one in the back I believe in the last episode we had we saw the divide

[viscid yacht]

If the Legion scenes are not at the fort. How did they move Ceasars body without finding the note?
Did he just happen to die in that one spot and they built the no mans land around him?

[cedar lotus]

I think they did it pretty well I mean it’s pretty much confirmed house won

[upper otter]

im not talking about the game though, i fail to see how the chip will be in the show at all

[wind timber]

it probably wont

[cedar lotus]

Sorry I lost connection for like 10 mins

[wind timber]

Why would the chip be in the show, it served its purpose already in new vegas

[upper otter]

it was a part that house needed dearly

[wind timber]

yes because he needed that data to download it

[cedar lotus]

Ig but it should be mentioned because we will know how Vegas comes in ruins which means the courier should also be mentioned or atleast referenced

[wind timber]

think of the chip as a super high powered SSD storage

[upper otter]

yes. i am aware.

[wind timber]

As of new vegas he got the chip and got the software he needed off of it, so he doesnt need it anymore

[upper otter]

im saying if they do go the route of house having the upgrades, what if the chip was meant to have the power source he was missing

[cedar lotus]

I think it’ll be like house tells the ghoul how Vegas fell explaining how it rose to power and its ultimate downfall referencing the courier the chip potentially Benny and Hoover dam it’s pretty much guaranteed who agrees with me?

[wind timber]

its not a power source at all, it requires a power source to use though

[upper otter]

victor mentioned fusion not the upgrades

[wind timber]

Known to only a few, chiefly Mr. House, the platinum chip is a sophisticated, high-density data storage device.[8][9] Per House's plans, the chip's specialized design requires equally specialized computer hardware to process the data contained on it, of which there were only two locations equipped as such

[upper otter]

you arent getting me.

[wind timber]

Though a proprietary format,[8][9] the platinum chip also contains software upgrades for the Lucky 38's systems. Besides being a casino and the headquarters for Mr. House's endeavors, the Lucky 38 is also armed with a missile defense grid. During the Great War, these weapons were used to prevent most of the nuclear warheads from destroying Las Vegas and the surrounding area,[11] and, if the platinum chip had reached House in time, would have prevented all of the warheads from hitting the Vegas area. Despite its name, it is not made of platinum, rather it refers to the data itself.[1

[cedar lotus]

Okay everyone just ignore my great claim it’s fine

[upper otter]

if this is the alternate story to the game, im saying it could be possible the chip was the key to his power problem

they already retconned shady and most of nv why not that

[cedar lotus]

This pretty much has to be the case and why he wants to dam he wants it to power the strip so he doesn’t have to worry

[wind timber]

It was the key to his software upgrades and technological advancements, the power was already there, but House probably needs the cold fusion to maintain his larger infastructure

Im sure the cold fusion will tie into hoover dam now, they can probably plug it in there to extend power through the region

[upper otter]

yes but house himself in the game states he needeed the chip to expand with the upgrades, if he has the upgrades he just needs the power now that he never recieved from before the war

[wind timber]

House obviously wants that Dam for the power distribution, and now that he knows about cold fusion (which is damn near infinite power), he'll want that too.

[viscid yacht]

Why would he need 5% of the dams power if the chip was enough?

[wind timber]

Like I said, because the chip itself doesn't give power, it just gives firmware/software upgrades to his systems.

you have to actually plug the chip into a high power system to activate and download that stuff

its basically a fancy USB

[upper otter]

im just saying im counting on them to retcon the entire game because almost nothing matches up, i'm done caring about contenuity after they nuked shady and then lied about it meaning something else. shady was not falling before the nuke and the ghoul says it was over 20 years ago.

just wipe the slate clean next time

or actually read the lore or play the games

[wind timber]

I mean black isle studio was going to wipe the slate clean anyway

[cedar lotus]

Exactly why he needs Hoover dam without cold fusion he can’t rlly power Vegas

[wind timber]

everything that has happened regarding NCR in the show is a toned down version of what was originally planned in van buren lol, and to an extent new vegas, because Chris Avellone is firmly in the "fuck society/rising civilizations" group.

[upper otter]

i know but like why fuck up the fan favorite game instead of like making its own story or playing into canon

[wind timber]

he tried so hard to make the lonesome road ending a "nuke everyone" ending, but they forced him to tone it down

[cedar lotus]

It will they aren’t stupid people know they would ruin fallout if they retconned Vegas

If they retconned Vegas I probably wouldn’t play anymore same thing with fallout 3 and 2

[wind timber]

they haven't really retconned vegas at all, everything that we've seen is pretty in line with what was described in the endings

[upper otter]

nah the series it built on retcons but this is barely new vegas

[viscid yacht]

They could have avoided all of this by just not using New Vegas.

I’d rather that then the chance they fuck up

[tacit birch]

if they're gonna destroy everything at least destory everything consistently with the tunnelers ffs

[wind timber]

https://tenor.com/view/jonah-hill-upset-facepalm-gif-13908817

[upper otter]

its cool to see the ending they chose to be canon but theyre adding all these things into it that didnt need to be like what could possibly be the point of the board of dates other than to show the change from the story

[wind timber]

this is why fallout lore kinda blows, everythings an absolute mess since fallout 1

[viscid yacht]

“Let’s destroy everything the player would have done”

[pine panther]

No Thaddeus takes his place

[upper otter]

its one thing choosing endings but its another to change the lore to a point it doesnt align with any of the games

[wind timber]

just make tactics canon

[upper otter]

lmao

[tacit birch]

khans were unnecessary and none of the endings line up with their presence in the mojave

[viscid yacht]

No one would complain if they had set in Texas and borrowed the good stuff from Tactics.

[pine panther]

Didn't they canonize the bos from the hit PS2 classic fobos

[tacit birch]

this should been the grand return of the jackals gang

[upper otter]

[wind timber]

I enjoyed the khans scene because I like seeing Khans get dunked on

it continues the fallout tradition of blowing them up

[upper otter]

khans were never cool tbf

glorified raiders

[wind timber]

just dork bikers with jet addictions

[cedar lotus]

Dude they aren’t going retconn Vegas you need to stop panicking yes they are corporate greedy and have lots of lies and bad business tactics for cheap quick cash but they aren’t stupid enough to straight up kill one of their biggest titles by retconning Vegas house will probably explain to the ghoul the entire story of the courier or atleast he brought the chip to him and activated it resulting in him winning in Hoover dam which he needs because he didn’t have cold fusion he didn’t really have a purpose for taking the dam other then power

[viscid yacht]

Bitter Springs was not a mistake

[tacit birch]

you're not ready to accept the truth nuke that is them ruling half the mojave

[cedar lotus]

True

[wind timber]

they are raiders, and I hate how the devs in new vegas tried to make them into a tribe with culture

[tacit birch]

khans are BACK baby

[viscid yacht]

How are the Khans surviving better than the NCR with the legion basically over the next hill.

[wind timber]

me when im a great khan and kill innocent traders from a massive country out west, and that massive country sends its army to blow up my raider camp so I go whine and cry that the NCR are killers and evil

[upper otter]

khans were in 3 fallouts and not once did they have redeeming qualities

[tacit birch]

they're poser tribals fr the biker jackets are lame as fuck

and they act as if they're an indigenous mojave tribe when they also crawled in from california

[viscid yacht]

The 3 fiends leaders have better lore and story than all of the Khans.

[wind timber]

I respect the fiends more because atleast they don't pretend to hide what they are (viscious bloodthirsty raiders) lol

[cedar lotus]

Everyone just ignore the huge paragraph I typed

[upper otter]

sure will

[wind timber]

factoid

I hope todd howard declares everything canon including brotherhood of steel so it turns into an insane retcon free for all

[tacit birch]

I like the khan leader in fallout 1 though

garl deathhand is such a name

[upper otter]

plot twist the enclave are actually to good guys against the brotherhood

[wind timber]

the legion are actually a freedom fighting force trying to liberate california from the tyrannical fascist NCR

[viscid yacht]

New Vegas isn’t even the best selling fallout game. You underestimate the power of writers wanting to do their own thing, instead of following what came before.

[wind timber]

what if the writing that came before kinda sucked

[tacit birch]

they already said (and acted as if it was some stroke of genius writing) to not pick an ending

even though that would retcon the game by virtue of no ending being canon

[upper otter]

atleast up until tandi the ncr and shady are canon

[wind timber]

tbh though I'd rather them just pick an ending, there's nothing really wrong with making canon endings, the Elder Scrolls gets to do it, so why not Fallout.

[viscid yacht]

I still hate they chose NV as the setting and are just sprinkling cameos here and there from the games, instead of having the region actually be relevant to the world.

[tacit birch]

I'm begging for them to stop being cowards and just pick an ending

just commit to SOMETHING PLEASE

[viscid yacht]

NV fans have had 15 years to enjoy their unique and varied endings. They need to stop crying over it tbh.

[upper otter]

but theyre making it convaluted with all these little things and it messes with a lot

[wind timber]

agreed

[solid moat]

As far as we know:
the NCR is hanging on.
House is gone.
And the Red Salad Man is dead.
That leaves Yes Man, but the way the show is going, there may be no canon ending.

[tacit birch]

idk about house being gone

[wind timber]

Yeah I'm thinking he's either still kicking or there's a backup AI in place

[viscid yacht]

Is Victor now an unreliable narrator? Homie has never lied

[tacit birch]

I think victor is just off his rocker since we see a teaser with house in the modern era

[wind timber]

Poor victor tbh, he seems depressed

[upper otter]

victor is controlled by house

[tacit birch]

he fell off his horse and hit his head a little too hard

[viscid yacht]

My eggs been scrambled pardner

[wind timber]

canon new vegas ending is that the courier fucking crashed the NCR economy with the sierra madre gold, which led to Shady Sands collapse, and then he accidentally set off C4 in the lucky 38, causing the strip to collapse

[solid moat]

It could be before the events of NV. Or prewar when House plugs himself into the Life Sustaining Coffin.

[viscid yacht]

“Courier fucks everyone”

[wind timber]

the most canon ending ever

[tacit birch]

the one thing I'll give them is playing it safe with the courier

[upper otter]

cue ulysses "you brought a package bearing old world marks..."

[wind timber]

Every interactable NPC? the courier canonically shot them in the face for some caps

[foggy badger]

I don’t see everyone being happy no matter what they choose, perfectly including nv into the show is so tricky

[tacit birch]

which is why they shouldn't have done it to begin with tbh

[wind timber]

some people in the fandom should just suck it up so that the writers can choose a canon ending lol

[upper otter]

they did it because they knew super fans would be autistically attracted to it

[tacit birch]

I'd rather take a legion ending over this nonsense everyone lost ending though

[viscid yacht]

Adapting post NV was probably the single most difficult setting they could have chosen to do. They deserve all the criticism for attempting this.

[wind timber]

"wah wah, a decision to canonize an ending which effects my enjoyment of a videogame that's been out for 15 years in no way whatsoever makes me MAD!"

[tacit birch]

what if we made new vegas 2 but made it so like nothing ever happened

[foggy badger]

I feel like a lot of people in the fandom wanted fallout media that wasn’t games but couldn’t come to terms with the fact that shows and movies tend to have pretty linear narratives that can’t be controlled by a player. Like why are we nitpicking the direction of a dinosaur rn

[tacit birch]

tbh that fucking dinosaur is important for guarding the town

[cedar lotus]

Exactly

[tacit birch]

boone and manny wouldn't be up there in show canon

[viscid yacht]

New Vegas not getting a Broken Steel type DLC and letting you play after the slides is fucking criminal.

[upper otter]

i wouldve liked it more if they just picked an ending and played off of that instead of adding little details that didnt need detailed

[solid moat]

It will actually be funny if Yes Man won but everything collapsed into anarchy. Will upset the headcanoners of them ruling NV with an iron fist.

[wind timber]

will they canonize him in the show?

[upper otter]

boones dead fs

[viscid yacht]

Only if we get Difficult Pete still kicking

[tacit birch]

my first playthrough is canon 🥳

[outer stirrup]

This is literally what’s happening in the show

[foggy badger]

God I hope so

[wind timber]

BASTARD - the wise words of Difficult Pete

[tacit birch]

yes because instead of guarding the town from raiders he just sat on his ass at home all day

and that's how the khans invaded

[viscid yacht]

LOOK AT EM GO

[upper otter]

"my wife is dead" as he walks off screen never to be seen again like they did with the patroling the mojave guy

[foggy badger]

It’s still a minor detail tho, changed the direction of a dinosaur that is only relevant for two quests, one to gain an optional partner tho. It’s a bit silly of some people to say that Dinky being moved is a huge plot hole 😭

[viscid yacht]

I’d cut out the entire NCR Ranger and refugee scene for a proper Mojave travel montage.

[upper otter]

FOR REAL

weve seen a hospital, camp golf and some cars lmfao

[wind timber]

If we don't get a fear and loathing in las vegas reference this season ill be pissed

https://tenor.com/view/fear-and-loathing-gif-24612021

[foggy badger]

Atp it’s better if the show just bites the bullet and does it their way, canonize what they will and move on because no one will ever be fully happy. They’re trying to please both kinds of fans at once and it’s not working

[tacit birch]

I think it's a good demonstration of them being willing to change lore for a cool scene

as well as shady being in LA

[viscid yacht]

There is way too many iconic locations for them to just not have some panning shots of them walking. Like come on, it’s as easy as a green screen over some stock footage of the desert. What’s the fucking excuse?

[unborn helm]

||Caesar is alive??||

Then ||who tf is sitting in Caesar's chair?||

[solid moat]

Red Salad Man is dead.
That is Junior Salad Man 1.

[foggy badger]

Yeah I didn’t rlly mind what happened to shady sands or its location. That max scene was literally so good and it honestly shifts the way you look at him in ep 3 going forward

[upper otter]

we are all ceasar

[unborn helm]

He had a kid?

[upper otter]

500 style

[foggy badger]

The real Caesar was the friends we made along the way

[viscid yacht]

Some random men we’ve gotten 0 characterization of.

Like what a missed opportunity to let Lucy be a diplomat for once. Let us see both camps before they start fighting.

[unborn helm]

What lore did I miss??

[viscid yacht]

Could have had her stand in the middle and try to mediate, then she notices the note on the body, reads it. Then they don’t believe her. Could have been great.

[upper otter]

its funny because the first guy we see looks kind of like ceasar but the secong guy is a little asian man it made me laugh

[solid moat]

No, he didn’t.
I have a bias against the Legion of Idiots, and I belittle them at every opportunity.

[wind timber]

Ceasar died (which was explained to happen no matter what in vegas), and the legion split immediately, each faction installed their own Ceasar

[foggy badger]

Everything is unconfirmed. He’s basically dead, but after he died the remaining legion split into two, each believing they’re the rightful owners of Cesar’s empire. Theyre likely not his children, just assholes who sought power and were probably somewhat high ranking at some point

[unborn helm]

More targets, yay!!

[wind timber]

indeed lol

[foggy badger]

It’s all in that little note which 100% probs says “it’s just me guys”

[upper otter]

it looks like it say "i am-"

[wind timber]

that note probably says some pretentious shit all about himself

[solid moat]

I AM THE LEGION.

[wind timber]

I am Ceaser.

I am the Legion.

[foggy badger]

Mf was fighting through a tumor and still had time to glaze himself 😭

[wind timber]

he loved looking at himself in the mirror thats for sure

[viscid yacht]

The skull is missing teeth, which makes me believe he died in battle before the tumor took him.

[wind timber]

?

[upper otter]

ballistic fist was cool

[wind timber]

true

Fat Fuck Boone canonically sniped Ceasar

[viscid yacht]

Missed opportunity to have Arcade be part of the legion.

[upper otter]

so basically the ghoul and lucy are now wanted dead by the legion

[wind timber]

Well the legion has more important things to attend to so I dont think they really care too much lol

[viscid yacht]

We don’t know if the Ghoul was caught lighting the dynamite. Or if he actually gave the location of the NCR. The show just cuts too much.

[upper otter]

they arent fighting anyone but themselves lmao whichever ceasar lives will not forget

[wind timber]

I think both are gonna die and Legate Mcgee is gonna take over

[upper otter]

two strangers come into your camp, makes a deal, and as soon as they leave the place explodes

[foggy badger]

I love how they reinstated two guys as ceasar but they’re not even half as cool as og ceasar

They’re just kinda there

[wind timber]

of all the things I've seen so far in the show, I think the legions portrayal of being absolute dumbass jokes has been the most spot on thing.

[viscid yacht]

Because we didn’t get any character build up. We came, we saw, we left. 🥱

[wind timber]

The two ceasars aren't meant to be built up, they're just figure heads

[upper otter]

to be fair, therye all tribals

[viscid yacht]

Most of season 2s screen time has little to do with the main plot. It’s all side bullshit that can be forgotten about.

[wind timber]

its a roadtrip

and we're only three episodes in lol

[foggy badger]

We’re on ep 3, these things build up over time

[upper otter]

yea especially how lucy just followed a slave to the legion without questioning anything

[upper otter]

3 of 8

[viscid yacht]

Even the Ghouls funniest quote follows this. Thou shall get sidetracked by bullshit

[wind timber]

classic fallout

[upper otter]

didnt know lucy was named bullshit

[wind timber]

John Bullshit

[upper otter]

lucy mcbullshit

[viscid yacht]

If ADHD was a perk

[upper otter]

i mean according to fallout shelter she has 6 int

[viscid yacht]

I just wish things were more connected. It’s just been moving from set piece to set piece.

[solid moat]

Wait, we don’t have it by default?

[upper otter]

we're all doing a challenge run ig

[wind timber]

thats how it goes in a vast empty desert

[viscid yacht]

That’s what makes NV good. They turned a desert into a region where one location has ties to another.

[wind timber]

What I'm wondering is why tf they haven't shown mojave outpost yet, you'd think they would take the chance for the set piece with the status and everything

[wind timber]

Not really, most of the mojave is super isolated aside from troop movements and the city itself

all the communities are off doing their own thing and trying to be unbothered by the surrounding war

[upper otter]

i assumed the trader in ep 2 walked the long 15

[summer surge]

lost media im afraid

[viscid yacht]

Physically yes, but society still interacts. Caravans move between towns. People in Good Springs acknowledge what’s happening in Primm, or at the Dam.

[summer surge]

time to play kcd2

[wind timber]

hell yeah

[upper otter]

i played the first one

[summer surge]

i just got 2

[viscid yacht]

Ignoring half of California and a lot of locations in the Mojave can just be tossed as “they followed Hank and Hank took the scenic route”

What a boring way to show time and travel progress.

[summer surge]

mm

[viscid yacht]

especially when half of fallout is walking and looking at places

[summer surge]

any guesses whret the legion camp in ep 3 was

[upper otter]

i mean they went straight past primm and goodsprings which wouldve been amazing to see

area 51 isnt far from hoover dam

[summer surge]

someone said something about goodpsrings in a episode but they never shared a link about it

[viscid yacht]

We can just barely see Primm in the background when the Ghoul is talking to the Rangers. But walking from Novac, to Camp Golf, then all the way back south towards Primm again is hilarious.

[upper otter]

primm also had a credit render which usually means it wont be a location

[viscid yacht]

Primm and properly ignored

[summer surge]

no clue whre they came from when they went to novac

[upper otter]

they stopped in novac because the last time the ghoul was there it was still a town

then they found hanks tracks again?

[viscid yacht]

Should have honestly just had them pass through the outpost and follow the main quest path. Would go to all these locations without the backtracking.

[pine panther]

They showed Helios one too

[viscid yacht]

The funny thing is there really is nothing stopping the writers from moving these locations around.

[solid moat]

The Ghoul has fast travel.

[carmine vault]

I think they were leaning that way in fo4 however they prioritised the supermutant and synth threats first

[cobalt sundial]

I've just stopped trying to make sense of location tbh

[thin field]

Where things are in this season is weird. Seems they are going all over the place

[viscid yacht]

I hope it all comes together really well in the last 2 episodes or something.

[burnt yew]

see i assumed the ncr were on the north side of primm as opposed to the south cause ye otherwise the ghoul would have been walking crazy distances

[analog summit]

Deathclaws is daedroths

[analog summit]

the locations are based on their geographic locations irl…

[smoky juniper]

so the legion has just sat on their ass for 15 years even though the way to the west is open?

[carmine vault]

We don’t know how long casaer has been dead

[smoky juniper]

and trying to grab the name of the next ceasar

okay so why havent they immediately pushed out west since the NCR isnt there

[carmine vault]

Perhaps the remains held out longer

Or the legion has been trying to take vegas from yes man/house

[smoky juniper]

we already know since s1 the strip is a ruin

[carmine vault]

Perhaps the legions been collapsing so badly it can barely move from the mojave

[smoky juniper]

either way the ncr isnt there and the bos isnt in any capacity to wage war against legion and khans are broken

they wouldnt be collapsing they would be having a field day in all the chaos of ncr getting nuked

and if house is alive that means the mojave bos is most likely dead

[carmine vault]

Without casear the legion is doomed to fracture

[smoky juniper]

the person who said that is just bitter because he was cast out

[carmine vault]

86-90 tribes (that includes those from new vegas) likely there would be rebellions on caesars death

[carmine vault]

Ulessyss also says it

[smoky juniper]

ulysses was also cast out?

or he quit. like reading glassdoor reviews of employees laid off.

[carmine vault]

No just walked away

Vulpus also implies there is no clear sucession

[smoky juniper]

good luck rebelling against legion wehn you're a 100 different raider tribes. they wouldn't crumble instantly.

all it takes is a strongman like lanius and not a strong ceasar.

[carmine vault]

Yes but if more than one tries to declare independence following his death coupled with in fighting

[smoky juniper]

but the succession in the tv show is clear its just contrived how they cant reach it

either way this doesnt explain why they havent pushed into west more when the ncr retreated. nothing's really stopping them besides raiders that should be scared of legion and the NCR that arent there and the BoS that also isnt there. the legion should just be having a field day imo

[carmine vault]

If house or yes man won then the bunker would have decimated them

[smoky juniper]

theres no scenario where the legion win the 2nd battle of hoover dam anyway. so the strip being a ruin is sorta mystery

itd be sensible if they just lost the 2nd battle and only recently moved back in, and then ceasar died

[chrome wagon]

Yeah, it's one of those things - like I said, expect the NCR to be peppered about. Like we've probably got little groups of hold-outs here and there.

Like with the Legion both struggling and seemingly pushed further out? It's possible that the ones who remained just spread out - but then it begs the question why a single group of the NCR hasn't been able to regroup with the battalion.

[wild tapir]

There is tho they are winning in nevada

[smoky juniper]

inb4 the omertas gassed the strip

[chrome wagon]

I think they mentioned it in an interview at some point, but yeah I didn't see it either.

[wild tapir]

Will we see goodsprings in the show

[smoky juniper]

nah. its already proven tehy are no match for ncr military tactics.

now add in house's securitrons who'd join the fray for obvious reasons

[summer surge]

but we don't know for sure yet

[pine panther]

Yea but it's shown that it took the ghoul awhile to travel because Lucy is starved and dehydrated by the time he gets back

[chrome wagon]

There's no confirmation people said we'd see Primm, all we got was it in the background. We have no idea yet.

[wild tapir]

Be funny if that was just it in the background during that One esp

[chrome wagon]

Lmao people would be so mad

[pine panther]

Don't doubt it

Maybe norms group goes to all the extra locations like that

[smoky juniper]

primm is just gonna be ghouls going by the trend established

[wild tapir]

Ghouls are cool

[smoky juniper]

cowboy ghouls

[wild tapir]

The atomic wrangler has one

[chrome wagon]

We already know || Norm's group encounters the NCR and Legion before they go anywhere else, so im curious how they'd get to the Mojave, or how they'll show it. Maybe NCR escort? ||

[wild tapir]

||They use one of the vault 31 dwellers to fast travel there in a group||

[pine panther]

They probably get captured by legion first then NCR rangers save them

[carmine vault]

Okay where is vault 31-33 roughly

[chrome wagon]

literally on the coast, remember when Lucy left the vault, the water is right there

[pine panther]

Near that famous ferris wheel place that's in gtav

[chrome wagon]

idk if they get captured? || In the BTS it looks like the NCR and Legion are already fighting, but we'll have to see. I don't think Norm's group gets captured, hurt, or injured specifically. ||

[carmine vault]

So it just seems so close to everywhere

[pine panther]

Can't wait for Wednesday when they actually reach vegas

It's interesting that no one being around to greet them is surprising to the ghoul

[chrome wagon]

He expected them to hold out longer, maybe? The ghoul probably doesn't know what happened in the other NCR capital, which like i said with Kimball being confirmed dead in Shady Sands, they probably got another president and that's who ordered them to pull out. I don't think the ghoul was privy to that information. For all we know, last in the Mojave, 25 years ago, he just assumed they'd still be around.

[pine panther]

Actually how long was the ghoul buried in that coffin

Didn't those grave diggers say he wasn't seen in 60 years or something

[chrome wagon]

no, it's a misconception, 30 years it's said - but they were talking about how long Dom Pedro had to live, for, that's how long the ghoul would be tortured for.

[pine panther]

Oh

[chrome wagon]

He was probably buried for like 5?

They said they kept cutting off limbs, and pieces, I imagine if he was buried for any longer or so, more of him would be missing. lol

ghouls can regenerate pieces, but not whole limbs, i don't think

[pine panther]

I see

[chrome wagon]

The only thing i can think of, is maybe he knows Hank blew Shady Sands up, but doesn't know the full state of the NCR. But he assumed they would win given the circumstances. Which makes me think they really did have just a messy retreat in the Mojave.

[pine panther]

What about the battalion out east where could they be staying

[summer surge]

if it even is alive still

how many men is a battalion+

well i searched battalion not platoon

[pine panther]

It says up to 1000

[chrome wagon]

We don't even know if the Battalion is still there, that was also 20 years ago?

[pine panther]

Yea

I'm just wondering where they'd be if they're east

[chrome wagon]

We're assuming they know, they're claiming the battalion is there, but they would have no idea. That's just the last time they contacted them, they were out East. I would HOPE they have some sort of Battalion around but if they haven't contacted them, it begs the question where the Battalion would go. Even on the Map Quintus has - idk if we can kind of figure out where the NCR Battalion is, or might be

[pine panther]

Possible it was just a script error and she was supposed to say west

[summer surge]

well we don't know how well Quintus knowsw the map, how should he know where a NCR batttalion is

[pine panther]

They got vertibirds to scout somewhat at least

[copper ocean]

Would be funny if said NCR battalion are just chilling in Flagstaff while the Legion were off having their little turf war between two wannabe Caesars.

[chrome wagon]

I imagine with the airship and the ability to scout out technology, his map would be probably the most informed one.

[pine panther]

Well where is the NCR the Ghoul talks to

By Mojave outpost?

[smoky juniper]

lol did they say east

the chekovs battalion that shouldnt even be there

[pine panther]

East of Mojave outpost

Maybe if that's where those rangers were

[smoky juniper]

yea so basically legion is out of mojave

[chrome wagon]

It's by Primm.

You can see Primm in the back drop, so it's not the Mojave outpost.

If it was the Mojave outpost, there'd be no reason for them to be staying where they are, they can walk there. I'm sure one Ranger can make that trek.
They've survived this long and their the most skilled survivalists in lore, they could do it.

[dull crystal]

i think its east and north of primm, near black mountain

[sick nest]

but is it not the caswennan that shows up in episode 8 and season 2

[chrome wagon]

what?

The airship you see in season 2 is the caswennan, the Prydwen is gone, it doesn't show up again. The other 3 airships that belong to the chapters have unique names that we don't know of yet.

[sick nest]

yeah that's what I meant, i asked where it was in episode 1 and they said it was the codename for the prydwen for the trailers

[mortal heath]

Spoilers: I blew that shit up, fam

[chrome wagon]

ahh okay

[chrome wagon]

I don't think so, Primm seemed way too close, and given the geography in the show is bigger than it is in-game, it's probably waaay closer to Primm.

[dull crystal]

actually yeah i kinda forget how far up black mountain is

[acoustic dew]

Ya know, since the Ghoul know Victor, he probably know the Courier too

[dull crystal]

idk victors been around for like 200 years

also hes standing outside the lucky 38 in the pre-war shot of vegas in the trailer

when coop and barb go to visit

[chrome wagon]

Yeah, Victor has been around for a while, Securitrons are also pre-war creations, not post.

[acoustic dew]

How many years since FNV

[dull crystal]

15

[acoustic dew]

Given 15 years since FNV Mr House didn't die, NCR and Legion too, Mr House ending might be canon and Courier must be helping him out

The Courier could be alive

[chrome wagon]

Yeah, 15 is correct.
FO3 is 2277.
FNV is in 2281.
FO4 is 2287.
The TV show is 2296.

[dull crystal]

although i think house ending is defo canon they will never show the courier

[acoustic dew]

I wish it will, he's too badass

[chrome wagon]

The courier is irrelevant to the plot, as hard of a pill it is to swallow for folks. All that is confirmed to be canon is the courier delivered the Chip. That's it.

[acoustic dew]

Well there's a lot of task to be done after Platinum Chip was delivered

[chrome wagon]

Right, and none of them confirmed.

[dull crystal]

i just feel like with all the stuff theyve been putting out about house, and how there were literally posters at the premier saying "the house always wins" i feel like his ending is canon but theyre not going to outright say it

[acoustic dew]

We in EP 3 so it's hard to judge

[chrome wagon]

The only thing that was confirmed is the chip being delivered. Because of the upgraded securitron.

We probably won't even see post-war house until the finale, or last 2 episodes.

[dull crystal]

but they'll never feature the courier or any player character because they dont want to set a canon of their actions/looks etc

maybe with te exception of the vault dweller because he kinda already has a canonised specific look and background

[acoustic dew]

I don like Twitter and internet complain so much minor stuff how goofy Zander and Max fighting securiton

[chrome wagon]

Yeah, but they'll never outright say it either the same way they never mention the Lone Wanderer from FO3, in Fallout 4.

Even though the Lone Wanderer is the reason the Brotherhood survive the enclave.

[acoustic dew]

Ppl never play Fallout and doesnt understand comical reason should stay quiet

[dull crystal]

yeah true, they never actually say what ending the lone wanderer picked they just imply it through people talking about the clean water in the capital wasteland which i think is a similar kind of thing theyll do in the show

[chrome wagon]

Yeah, that's exactly how they'll handle it. They'll elude to what happened, but they'll never outright say WHO did it, or the details behind it.

[acoustic dew]

Speaking of Fallout 4 if BOS is still alive in Commonwealth, the Institute faction was destroyed is canon

And Railroad too?

[chrome wagon]

Which that level of mystery is what keeps the Main characters mythical, as well, because all the protagonists are legends, and myths in their own right.

[dull crystal]

tbf only fallout 4 and new vegas have actual faction endings, 1, 2 and 3 were all just the good ending where you complete the main quest or the bad ending where you fail/sabotage the main quest, you never actually get to join the unity/enclave

[chrome wagon]

Yes, the canon ending ot fallout 4 is either BOS ending, or MM/BOS Alliance.

[acoustic dew]

I think it's all right to nkeep the previous MC mythical and cryptic, seems way more menacing and badasses that way

I don k ow if I want to see them go t Commonwealth for grand purpose just to fanservice to the fans with cameo but I wanna see Nick Valentine on screen

[dull crystal]

i think it would be kinda cool to see whats going on in the commonwealth now

theyre kinda elluding to the commonwealth bos creating their own nation similar to the NCR

which would be interesting

also theres the possible threat of the enclave there

[chrome wagon]

It's what Todd & Emil want, im pretty sure. The West used to be the BOS Heartland in the old games, but it looks and feels like Todd wants to make the East the new Heartland with all the lore drops, and advancements the BOS gotten there.

[acoustic dew]

Is Enclave no longer exists anymore since FO3? I haven't heard anything for them on FNV and FO4

[outer stirrup]

They are in the second episode of season 1

[dull crystal]

tbf by the time of fallout 2 the bos had almost fallen in the west, they were restricted to their bunkers and were basically glorified tech dealers, not to mention the ncr was begining to advance to the point that they were competing with the NCR for advanced tech (helios one, that weird key to area 51 they found on an ncr soldiers corpse, all the tech in navarro). it was only really by sending their expeditions to the mojave and capital wasteland that saved them because those places were untamed and were places where the bos had free reign to do what they did in fallout 1

until the ncr invaded the mojave and elder lyons just ditched their entire philosophy anyway

[chrome wagon]

oh no, I agree. Which is why im not opposed to the Heartland shift, if that's the goal for Todd, it keeps the Brotherhood stable so that if they fall in the West, it's fine.

[trail sentinel]

A BoS in the East? = No more troubles for California over here!

[dull crystal]

ever since fallout 1 the bos has kinda been portrayed as an outdated faction with no real goal or purpose, since they dont actually care about civilisation or helping rebuild, but it seems this new brotherhood is maybe wising up that they cant just steal food and scavenge ammo forever and they need a society that can farm for them and have industry capabilities in turn for the BOS protecting them and their government

[chrome wagon]

and tbh, it's better if they fall in the West, because it gives other factions the ability to fill the vacuum, potentially and hopefully new ones.

[acoustic dew]

I found this yt comment, what do you think

[dull crystal]

i kinda like the whole wiping a blank slate in the west, because as much as i love the ncr for their goals and aesthetics they were such a flawed faction, in what world is rebuilding the same america that was severely corrupt and in the end killed itself ever going to end well? id like to see a new faction similar to the ncr, possibly made up of ncr remnants who want the same goals as always but are trying not to repeat the same mistakes as before

[chrome wagon]

Ignorant of House's character I think, he's a narcissistic mastermind. There's a difference.
The realistic thing is, this isn't retconning or destroying House's character, this is just expanding on how he was pre-war. Him attacking the Unionists makes sense because - they're actively opposed to him. and two, he killed them to test a device he created. Which isn't far-fetched for someone who only, mostly trusts himself to do things and views himself as the best?

[dull crystal]

i mean theyre not entirely wrong.. the scene was a bit odd but we haven't seen the rest of the season so we dont really know whats going on with all that nor the context of the scene. Not to mention this is exactly the kinda stuff that was going on pre war, it just seems goofier when translated from a game to a screen because thats just what always happens for some reason. I mean this guy built a virtual copy of his celebrity crush, put it in a securitron and let it jack him off for 2 centuries. the guy was a freak

[wind timber]

people act like House wasn't bullshitting in new vegas

[chrome wagon]

The devs said he wasn't, tbf

[wind timber]

He's a power hungry egotistical genius lol

[acoustic dew]

wat

[wind timber]

yeah he basically made robot sex slaves lmao

[acoustic dew]

Wow

[wind timber]

veronicas quote on it is pretty funny

[chrome wagon]

More indicative of him being like Howard Hughes, who was surrounded by female actresses.

[wind timber]

who also wasn't a good guy either

[chrome wagon]

Yeah.

House isn't good by any means, but as far as we know he wasn't lying, tho

[acoustic dew]

No wonder he's richest man in the world, he know how to do business

[wind timber]

https://tenor.com/view/jonah-hill-upset-facepalm-gif-13908817

"yeah courier Im totally gonna put people in space in a few decades despite the fact that Vegas is barely functional without external support in real life in the middle of an expansive desert, yeah courier totally work for me bro and get me that chip please,"

"muh industry!"

[acoustic dew]

We got Outer Wilds

[copper ocean]

He was more useful for slapping sense into the NCR than whatever goofball moonshot plans he had in mind. True, none of that ultimately mattered in the end, but still.

[wind timber]

True

Ironically, it isn’t the ncr that needs house, but the other way around

[copper ocean]

Kinda apropo that an outside variable like Hank could’ve managed to perhaps unknowingly sabotage House’s plan worse than maybe Benny and the Great War combined.

I mean, how would anyone reasonably expect some pre-War Vault-Tec middle manager to pop off like that from outta nowhere?

[wind timber]

Of all the variables, house probably wasnt counting on that one

If he’s still around, and knows about it, I can’t imagine that he’s all to pleased with hanks actions

[gilded heart]

so the paladain maximus is with you think maxson would of been ok with him killing children

[wind timber]

Yes, they were ghouls.

And some brothers are probably more racist than others

Especially trigger happy ones who encounter an opportunity without (to xanders view because max is also a knight) witnesses to incriminate him

Just look at real life examples, horrible things like this happen at the hands of soldiers alot

Especially in organizations like the brotherhood which are i doctrinated and tight knit

Maxson himself though? I don’t think he’d go that far

[gilded heart]

maxson imo

would at least show some restraint towards none feral ghouls

as long as they aren't an inconvenience or activly getting in the bos way

[wild tapir]

Those kids cleary were getting in the way

[gilded heart]

the fuck?

[cedar lotus]

He’s joking

[gilded heart]

they were out in the middle of nowhere minding their own bussiness

[wild tapir]

It's a joke

[gilded heart]

its hard to tell alot of fallout/bethesda fans are mentally insane

[outer stirrup]

Did you not see what they were doing with the bottle caps?

[gilded heart]

they were opening sunset sasperila to get money?

they werent manafacturing new caps

[chrome wagon]

Why though if Lyons brotherhood showed barely a restraint?

[gilded heart]

because when it comes out your killing ghoul children and the town of misfit and freaks get upset and you gotta put them down people will be less likely to trust you

[chrome wagon]

We don't entirely know if Arthur Maxson would, or wouldn't but just judging by how the Lyons brotherhood was towards mutants, i can understand why people would lean into the mindset thinking he would.

[chrome wagon]

But they still treated ghouls like shit in Fallout 3 and people trusted them, they still got Wasteland recruits just fine lol

[gilded heart]

or even willing to cooperate with you

thats recruitment and fo3 the bos were still closed off

[chrome wagon]

No, they were literally harassing and shooting ghouls going in and out of the Underworld to the point where Willow says the super mutants treated them better than the Brotherhood. The recruitment wasn't closed off because the literally training guy in the Pentagon tells you that they're wasteland recruits.

[gilded heart]

need to replay fallout 3 then

[chrome wagon]

I'm just saying, they were treating ghouls like shit in FO3, and treating them as subhuman.
It didn't affect their recruitment much.

Interacting with Wastelanders, and focusing on humanitarian relief is one of the reasons why the Outcasts left, too.

[gilded heart]

fair enough

im not gonna argue its causing me a headache lol ill just believe you

best path forward is to lay down and give up than fight a pointless arguement you are right in

[chrome wagon]

Fair enough lol I do recommend another playthrough though, just cause FO3 is fun. 👀

[gilded heart]

nothings more fun than my gun having the durability of wet cardboard

[chrome wagon]

gotta do the Anchorage cheese and get the durability glitch weapons. lol

[cedar lotus]

It’s obviously a joke brochacho

[brisk blade]

So im not really good understanding things but what did the ghoul just learned this episode

with the match and saving lucy and the dramatic music in the background

[carmine vault]

Victor is still powered up hinting house is still alive since if house goes down so does victor

[chrome wagon]

You are correct, it's why I've said House isn't dead. Victor cannot operate if House is dead, it's impossible.

[carmine vault]

What if yes man is a ai house?

Nah i think house is alive

[rapid cypress]

Well, he’s not really Vault Boy

[chrome wagon]

Put it like this, Bethesda wouldn't spend multimillions on Justin Theroux, and a bunch of Robert House promotions only to kill him off. lol

[carmine vault]

Then again plot twist

[chrome wagon]

yeah but i don't know if it'd hit the same as Xander's death, you know? lol I feel like all this build up for him to be dead would be frustrating.

[copper ocean]

Agreed.

[lean burrow]

I actually quite enjoyed home alone dude as the legate, he seems so douchey for that role which i like for legate

I think even if they dont confirm any endings outright it looks like its pointing to nv house ending and fo4 bos or minutemen ending.

Since caesar died courier probably didnt help legion and since ncr is almost wiped out in vegas, same thing there, unless theyve just been wittled down in either case and just now started to have issues. And every other faction kills commonwealth bos so, id say bos for fo4 is most likely since they seem well established.

Pretty sure neither faction is fully wiped out though aside from in vegas. They both have plenty of other places to be.

[chrome wagon]

Shortking Legate.

[chrome wagon]

We do know House is still alive due to him being directly tied to House's systems, if House goes offline, Victor does too. Same as if house dies or gets replaced, Victor can only exist if House is active and alive.

But Victor says House is 'gone' not dead. So that leaves me to believe that House's systems are online, but he can only connect to securitrons, and not access much outside the Lucly 38 besides them.

[smoky juniper]

he always had delusions of grandeur. it's clear from r eading his obituary. only difference is if he bought half the shit he was saying himself or not.

[smoky juniper]

he has consistently shown he's tolerant of non ferals and willingly ignores the codex when it obviously leads to committing evil acts. people just love to ignore this characterization of him and so they see no wrong with xander executing non ferals as well

[gilded heart]

hes shown he can be tolerant of a synth

valentine but it might be because he isnt a robot pretending to be human

[chrome wagon]

The devs would disagree with you, so it doesn't matter. lol

[chrome wagon]

Yeah but idk if that's more of a lore thing, or gameplay mechanic.

[gilded heart]

tbh im guessing its moreso nate/nora is a specialized agent of the bos and the reason their compaions who would be kos arent is because nate/nora needs them

[chrome wagon]

Yeah i would actually agree with that. Exception, not the rule

[smoky juniper]

what the devs say on twitter isnt canon

iirc avellone or sawyer also said yesman ending = canon

[smoky juniper]

he also hasn't directly nor indirectly aggressed toward ghouls in fo4. people just take his dogmatism and assume it's absolute when it's not, and is proven by just looking at the games.

[gilded heart]

the bos occupy good neighbour

in the bos ending of 4 and provide defence for the town

[smoky juniper]

i dont recall that. but at the end of the game after they destroy the institute they're still not going around executing ghouls. that'd be insane.

people arguing that xander's actions are in line with the commonwealth bos aren't reckoning with the question of why they never did that in the previous games and just run a bad defense of the tv show.

if the commonwealth was also being as dogmatic to the codex as the ppl think they would have destroyed the multiple ghoul settlements as they came in, then probably occupied diamond city and hoarded all their tech.

[smoky juniper]

you can't justify headcanon by non-game examples. if you had a side quest or a terminal entry backing it up, maybe

the commonwealth going from peacekeeping faction to murderous psychos in <10 years is like mad max going from lawlessness to religious bands of raiders in 2-3 years

[chrome wagon]

It's a tough decision to say whether Maxson would, or wouldn't given his age in Fallout 4 and im pretty sure it's described that his age plays a bit into his decision making - and how he reacted with Danse.
We can clearly see he'd personally struggle internally morals vs principles.
However, I'd wager there would definitely be a lot of brotherhood members more extreme than others, or a decent chunk of them - it's like you said there would be some more racist than others. I don't think it's as cut clear and dry. Though there's been enough incidents in-game and comments by NPCs that it happens enough that it's left a mark that it's occurred enough for it to not necessarily be that surprising.

[leaden violet]

Have they shown the Hoover dam yet

Is it safe, is it alright

[smoky juniper]

its absolutely not a tough decision. maxson or his brotherhood has never shown to commit murder for no benefit just because their codex says so.

they dont even follow their core belief ie. hoarding tech if it involves committing evil, unless it's crucial for the mission like needing to salvage rivet city's reactor. if they just cared about following the codex they would just roll over communities which doesn't happen in either 3 or 4.

[north bane]

In F4 there is literally a quest called "cleansing the commonwealth" for Maxson's brotherhood - and in game it just has you kill at most ferals, with the codex doctrine all of the ghouls in goodneighbour would be shot out of hand

FNV brotherhood is a bit less extreme, but mostly because they've been cowed by two actual states into basically hiding and hoarding what tech they have. Given the chance they'd 'cleanse' the NCR's large non feral ghoul population at the time of FNV

[smoky juniper]

yeah thats what im arguing. the show's depiction of commonwealth is twisted, just like a lot of things

[eternal locust]

Okay question what happened to the NCR like they controled most of the west and with legion being degraded to nothing but two tribes who cant decide on who is the rightful heir

[north bane]

Well shady sands getting nuked probably didn't do wonders for their economy

[eternal locust]

What happened? It couldnt be shadysands

[eternal locust]

But it wouldnt destroy the NCR

[north bane]

Todd Howard has hinted they are still a lot stronger further north in san fran iirc

And that we're only seeing their absolute fronteirs now long cut off

[eternal locust]

So they moved on from the south west and went north

[north bane]

Naw the NCR always had a strong presence in san fran. Arguably it was the larger settlment than shady sands and served a bigger economic function

Shady Sands was the political capital, san fran was the economic one

[eternal locust]

Also crazy there is no talk of the dam especially since the legion can take it with no problem who is in control

[north bane]

House probably has it

[eternal locust]

True but why move from the southwest instead of pushing legion passed the canyon?

[north bane]

Kept in guarded statis for the next customer base to come

[smoky juniper]

writers are being vague on purpose. realistically they should still have a strong economic and military base for their nation. the whole "fall" is intentionally left vague. the NCR in the show is also at the extremity of their territory which makes it impossible to gauge how strong they are

[north bane]

If they were still at war with the legion, and then shady sands got nuked, that probably gave the NCR more to worry about than what to their population would've been something like the Iraq war

average NCR citizens knew about the fight with the legion, but it was a far off fronteir conflict that seldom effected their day to day lives

In fact I think the show undersold how advanced shady sands was. It'd be closer to pre war 1980 than what we saw in the show

[eternal locust]

Hm i wonder who the NCR blamed for the attack or if they just blamed the usual enemies legion or enclave

[north bane]

Wonder if perhaps the brotherhood, as they had been in a long time uneasy truce/cold war by that point

[eternal locust]

True but not to the point of hatred they were quiet in new vegas and dont seem to like the idea of concerning

Conquering*

[north bane]

There's the other faction in San Fran who basically got given a military base by the NCR in exchange for letting the NCR run the rest of the city (also a deal with the triads in san fran, who have their own city state there)

They don't want to conquer, but they also don't view the NCR as progressing society. The Brotherhood view the NCR as just repeating the same mistakes, and more pressingly ideologically speaking as a state that harbours undesirables that should be genocided according to brotherhood doctrine

[eternal locust]

See im just trying to figure out which ending they are saying is cannon

[north bane]

Well it's canon vault tech nuked shady sands

as for the FNV ending at this point we know it's not legion or NCR, which really only leaves yes man, player, or house

maybe the canon ending was the courier fucking killed everybody he met lmao

[eternal locust]

True but thats eastern commonwealth ideaologies compared to west which care more about tech and worship it like a god

[smoky juniper]

they are collapsing from the succession crisis. but its again vague and they dont establish when the old ceasar died. it could be 3 months ago or 15 years ago. however considering the NCR was nuked and they still havent pushed past their border from NV more or less tells me they lost the 2nd battle of hoover dam, and only moved back into the region after NCR started pulling back due to shady being nuked but this should realistically be very recent, because if ceasar was alive he would have the senses to exploit NCR weakness. my guess is NCR holdouts kept hoover dam for a long time after the campaign was officially over. and i also assume the legion tried to assault them multiple times, and at one point they attacked the strip and destroyed it.

it could theoretically be interesting if the asian looking legate wanted to bypass the dam and go for the strip instead, and home alone legate wanted to take the dam, or some other such strategic difference

[eternal locust]

The legion? The legion it sounds like destroyed itself they had not orginization with anyone left within the legion they lost their last great leader once Cesar died.

[eternal locust]

That would be death house would kill every legionary

[smoky juniper]

house's securitron army would be depleted most likely, he would realistically be helping NCR fight off the legion since legion winning means house is dead

so over time ,attrition would get him

[north bane]

Actually it is 100% a NCR afganistan/vietnam situation. They did "win" the events of NV including the second battle of hoover dam, but shady sands (or even prior) political and economic uncertainty was making their conquest untenable, despite the economic gains.

[smoky juniper]

yeah, i agree wtih that

their campaign was always more political in nature than existential. kimball wanted to expand at the cost of stability.

[leaden violet]

Isn't the economic powerhouse of the NCR the hub

[eternal locust]

No it was the governments complacency that destroyed the south west push by the ncr

It was the main problem in NV with the NCR was how slow it took for gov to do anything

[north bane]

FNV (and fallout 2) goes to a lot of lengths to make clear the NCR is the least worse of all the other options, but still has a lot of issue. It's a lassiez faire capitalist hellhole in which the government is basically ran by the brahmin barons, arms manufactures, and the trade caravans, with an increasingly authoritarian bent compared to Tandi's orignal NCR

[smoky juniper]

kimballs campaign was realistically meant to earn him more power to oppose the brahmin barons. the dam and the strip in his control would have been a huge political win.

[north bane]

If there's anywhere you'd want to live in fallout, it would be the NCR, but it's not a paradise. In fact the whole point of the faction is even bringing back pre war ideas of democracy and rule of law, without reforms to it you end up in the same rut

[eternal locust]

Brother its the end of the world idgaf about anything except water food and law

[north bane]

Listen to how people talk about him in FNV tho. Every NCR citizen and soldier aside from the officers talks about him as it's a given fact he's talking out of his ass

[eternal locust]

The rest is kinda like being spoiled

[north bane]

Naw it is, 100% - but that doesn't mean citizens in that "spoiled" nation can't ask for a bit more. It's hierarchies of needs

[eternal locust]

Sure but if one is saftey, food, water and the other is death,pillage,anxiety i think i would roll with it. Like the NCR is corrupt but most the gov will have bias or ideals that go against others thats gov thats reality ngl

[smoky juniper]

being corrupt in post apocalypse is like a major 1st world problem

[eternal locust]

Exactly there are bigger fish to fry

[tame steppe]

I just wanna see a scene of power armour being used in a cooler manner compared to big guy punching things

[smoky juniper]

most countries in history started off as "capitalist hellholes". arguably some of the greatest leaps in history happen because of individuals wanting to make as much money as possible and being granted power by the state to do so. in post apocalypse i see it almost as an inevitability that the same model gets applied. i would even go further and claim there would be "brahmin states" eventually, that model the merchant republics of our history.

brahmins are also like the very first step in that. they are pack animals and food but dont rly offer much else.

which is why i find it very silly that house talks about using the same model to get to space in a few decades

[north bane]

The conditions of the NCR are unique though. Their only major manufacturing is arms, and brahim. Everything else is scrap which may need basic machining. In short, they're not producing any major industry anymore, at least not by scratch, because they don't need to (for now)

Basically the product of a far larger capitalist system that has produced far more than they could dream of has left this bounty around in which you can prop a form of capitalism up without the actual production. The only major production is well, food/logistics in brahmin, and guns

[smoky juniper]

they have a large agricultural base from all the farmers they absorb when they expand. probably other smaller industry, artisanship and such. i just feel the game doesnt explore it because its so obvious

redding also has a gold mine, but its largely worthless beyond small quantity uses in electronics
altho that said the gold bars from sierra madre are special?

[north bane]

I wouldn't even say obvious, I'd personally like a game detailing the economy of the NCR. But probably not something that'd test well with audiences lmao

"Fallout: Economics" doesn't have a good ring to it. Instead of a vault dweller out to change the world, you're an NCR accountant trying to cover up Red Crimson's tax fraud

[chrome wagon]

You're correct, plus there's the whole show not tell angle that they're going with.
Not to mention the thing that people ignore is that the NCR economy was unique, but also dependent on the leader at the time. We see in FNV the economy is struggling, troops can afford supplies - even bases and outposts that need it can't really purchase it from locals. It's why the Courier can do it for them, etc etc.

Kimball is a prime example of what a bad leader does to the NCR, it wasn't just that he stretched them too thin, it's that he was so disliked by his citizens because the campaign costed them. And if he lost the campaign, or if they had to pull out in the Mojave - why House gives a high probability like 90% that Kimball would off himself.

[chrome wagon]

The problem with the ending is that I don't think they'll choose one, the most likely option is House, but even then im not sold they'll pick a specific ending. The 'fog of war' comment about the endings that Bethesda made I genuinely feel was just PR speak more than literal so they didn't publicly have to see no ending is canon, or they're going with a specific one.

Victor is alive, which means House is too, Victor can't exist without House - or be online if he dies, even if Yes Man replaces House, victor goes offline.
Plus Victor is unique where if he's destroyed, his personality just jumps into another Securitron.
Which is very interesting that in the episode Victor wasn't destroyed, he was disabled and tampered with, which was very deliberate.

[smoky juniper]

nah, i had an idea where a fallout game would be set around various unique political idologies represented by each faction. it would be just as hard a sale

[leaden violet]

why are there so many deathclaws in vegas???

[chrome wagon]

The thing to consider is the NCR didn't want to control the Mojave, or be out so far in that direction, either.
It's said a lot through citizens, and NPCs, the campaign is more related to Kimball's expansionism more than anything, which is costing the citizens, and their economic infastructure because their caravans are barely making it through, too. Despite the NCR clearing out majority of the raider gangs, between the gangs remnants, the legion, etc etc.

There's a lot.

[chrome wagon]

I'm convinced someone put them there, but we don't know.

[chrome wagon]

If you look at the trailers, the Securitrons guarding the Strip are gone, too. More like destroyed, but still. I don't think they just magically blew up.

[summer surge]

gne or destroyed outside

[eternal locust]

Kimballs policy towards NV was more towards the power infrastructure then expansion notice how most the troops there are sitting not moving towards the east. I believe kimballs move towards hoover was good intention bad outcome no plan

[chrome wagon]

We see them sort of laid out but, yeah I don't know. I feel like someone wanted to cripple Vegas. We just don't know who.

[chrome wagon]

The only reason I disagree is because Kimball was specifically an expansionist for the NCR. This is something that is brought up about him, and one of the reasons he wanted the Dam in the first place when the citizens and other soldiers, didn't. But their say didn't matter.

[eternal locust]

Which npc im not disagreeing but who said he was expanding the NCR?

[chrome wagon]

Cause his plan is literally called the 'Seven year annexation plan of the Mojave'.

It's in the FNV game guide.

[eternal locust]

Cause if you cant take vegas you aint going no where east 😂

[eternal locust]

Ahhhh see im going off NPCs and lore thats different

[summer surge]

hm those screens are infact,broken

[eternal locust]

Raiders?

[chrome wagon]

It's canon, as far as I know. Lore that exists out of games isn't ruled out of canon - it just adds context. Plus FNV has canon comics and other stuff that adds more context.

[summer surge]

ohh so i forgot we saw a scene in trailers where lucy will go to the ncr camp?

[chrome wagon]

No raiders couldn't have organized it's destruction that well, I don't think. The Raiders were barely existant in FNV because the NCR hunted 95% of them.

[eternal locust]

I wonder if kimball being shot is cannon in the show

[chrome wagon]

No, he blew up in Shady Sands.

[chrome wagon]

His memorial is on the Moldaver shrine.

[chrome wagon]

With the ghoul, probably, her first NCR interaction

[summer surge]

maybe next ep?

[eternal locust]

Ooooh wait when does FNV take place?

[chrome wagon]

15 years before the show.

[summer surge]

2281

[eternal locust]

Jesus 15 years all of nv goes to shit

[chrome wagon]

Yeah, 15 is correct.
FO3 is 2277.
FNV is in 2281.
FO4 is 2287.
The TV show is 2296.

[summer surge]

Freeside looks fine though

[chrome wagon]

Everyone moved to freeside, and freeside expanded.

[leaden violet]

westside in shambles bruh

[chrome wagon]

Freeside doesn't just look fine, it looks like it expanded to all hell.

[eternal locust]

Hm i wonder if they will speak about the courier

[eternal locust]

If i remember the kings are all ghouls so somthing happened

[smoky juniper]

the VT along with their mind control chips my guess. they have the precedent with mind controlled deathclaws

[chrome wagon]

It's possible, the ghoul says he expected a welcoming committee but no one comes out to greet him. It's why im convinced someone did something, it's hard fetched enough to get Deathclaws into the Strip, but take out the Securitrons and then the Kings turned feral? Something very weird is going on. lol

[eternal locust]

Another nuke? Or freeside war against house?

[leaden violet]

it's hilarious how the legion civil war is the most lean ass no man's land ever

[eternal locust]

Same as the game except instead of ncr its legion vs legion

[chrome wagon]

Realistically, probably neither? The events seem specifically deliberate, House Security disabled, Victor's memory wiped, Deathclaws ONLY in the Strip, nowhere else.

If Freeside went to War with House, I imagine they would've taken over the Strip.

[leaden violet]

ncr vs legion was a whole territory, i doubt the legion vs legion here is up to that scale 😭

[chrome wagon]

But it seems like even Freeside is afraid of the Strip, and doesn't wanna go there.

[smoky juniper]

he wanted the dam and consequently the strip most likely since its just an economic engine on its own. large reason the ncr is corrupt is because the power and influence of the brahmin barons so you are just naturally forced to expand as the best course of action

[eternal locust]

Oh not even close

[eternal locust]

I think the brahmin barrons arent the ones running the NCR maybe push or pull but not running it

[chrome wagon]

Again I would agree if Kimball wasn't staunchly known as an expansionist for the NCR to the own detriment of his people.
I don't think your wrong I think it's more like - Expansion first > Economic advantage second.
Because there's a bunch of decisions in the Mojave campaign that economically fuck the NCR and he does nothing to fix them, and let's them fester. EVEN if the Courier helps, the problems are so bad that the fixes don't last.

[eternal locust]

But like any company can have that look at the van graffs or the gunners

[smoky juniper]

the more of an economic base you have the less reliance on the brahmin barons you need.

[eternal locust]

The barons i dont believe are the ones strong arming the NCR the onlu power they have is through food which could be occupied by the NCR army if push came to shove

I think its just kimball being kimball thinking all of the east needs to be like the NCR

[chrome wagon]

It's why you hear NPCs, specifically NCR characters tell you, when you help them in their economic situations, or with supplies and what not. "Thanks, this'll help for a time." "Or thanks, this should hold us over for a bit." The other factions don't have this dialogue when assisted, the implication is even with local help, they're so fucked that it's just a Band-Aid attempting to treat a larger, festering wound.

[smoky juniper]

also in a tax based economy expansion is your easiest way to grow the economy. you just grow the tax base. so NCR is pretty much forced to expand if they want to fix the corruption imo

[leaden violet]

oh my fucking god they built off the jack ryan bioshock achievement in fnv???

[smoky juniper]

also the funny thing is that the brahmin barons probably want ncr to stop expanding just as much as the regular folk

so the government is just fked no matter what

[leaden violet]

THE FUCKING BIOSHOCK ACHIEVEMENT IN FOV LITERALLY FITS HOUSE NOW?????

[eternal locust]

I dont think so like where is the evidence for that? Or is it a hunch?

[smoky juniper]

NCR probably wants the cold fusion to fix their economy in some way

[eternal locust]

What economy they arent even backed by gold yet

[smoky juniper]

my headcanon is the hunch. its like i explained. the more the NCR state coffers grow, the less of an impact corrupt factions have in theory.

[eternal locust]

But the NCR makes money off of thoes buissness the more they expand the more the state can

[smoky juniper]

gold backing isnt a thing. the NCR dollar is backed by gold but its worthless iirc.

or i think that was the idea in fo2
but they semi retconned it so its worth it now, and BoS blew up their gold reserve so now the currency is worthless again

[eternal locust]

Im thinking 76 since that currency is backed on gold

[smoky juniper]

76 is a lot earlier

[chrome wagon]

The NCR has no idea Cold fusion exists, is the issue.

I mentioned this earlier, if they did, and it mattered to them - they would've helped Moldaver.

[eternal locust]

The only ones who know is the brotherhood, lucy and the ghoul

But was moldaver part of the NCR?

[chrome wagon]

Yeah, if the NCR wants it, it has not been shown in the show at all.

[smoky juniper]

theres a lot of time skipping in the show, they could just have the ghoul or the ppl who associate with him let the ncr know

[eternal locust]

The ghoul is out for himself he wouldnprobably tell the NCR to fuck off

[chrome wagon]

Yes, but here's the thing - if she told the NCR about it, why didn't they support her? The only people that supported her were survivors and ragtags, not actual official NCR soldiers or military personnel.

[smoky juniper]

ncr is rly the only faction the ghoul would ally with unless he remains a free agent

[eternal locust]

What?! No shot you really believe that

[chrome wagon]

I disagree, that's just writing it off and not a purpose of a McGuffin hunt, a player involved in a mcguffin hunt is never just 'told off screen'. We know the players involved with Cold Fusion. The NCR is not one of them.

[eternal locust]

The ghouls main ideaology is that everyone is out for themselves

[smoky juniper]

yeah, and its been pretty much foreshadowed lucy and maximus will become ncr aligned

[eternal locust]

W h e r e ?

[smoky juniper]

every time they show ncr iconography they play the heroic music theme

[chrome wagon]

Yeah, people keep saying this but there's zero evidence, they've never interacted with the NCR. lol

All that was shown was Maximus being born as a citizen, the rest is headcanon.

[smoky juniper]

and maximus is on his way to being disillusioned wtih bos. ghoul is on his way to becoming more people-minded ever since he chose to help lucy with legion.

[eternal locust]

Yeah i think maximus will head the Brotherhood western branch

[chrome wagon]

Disillusioned does not mean he will join the NCR, it just means he's disillusioned.

[eternal locust]

The ncr would never except maximus they would see him as a cult member

[smoky juniper]

i want them to just destroy quintus's BoS lmao they have 0 redeeming qualities

[chrome wagon]

To join the NCR he needs more interactions with them.

[leaden violet]

wtf is that the lost arc

[chrome wagon]

Idk this isn't necessarily true, Maximus just doesn't know them yet. I don't mind him joining, it's just he's had little to no interaction with the NCR, or even brought them up for almost a season and a half now. For him to suddenly join the NCR would make little sense without any type of interaction. He needs to meet them to know their ideals, he has no idea what they stand for. As far as he knows, they're enemies of the Brotherhood, that's all.

[chrome wagon]

Someone said Ulysses's staff is there somewhere, i forget where

[smoky juniper]

idk so far every BoS faction in the show to me is disgusting. maximus is dumb but hes also pretty obvious lawful good. and he wants to bang lucy and i doubt shes open toward BoS

[leaden violet]

wasn't that a one time thing

the paladins, knights, power armor BOS idk, being stupid grunt jocks is pretty hilarious

[chrome wagon]

I don't see him joining the East BOS either, there isn't a way for him to contact the East.
I think he'll be against the Brotherhood entirely in the next 2 episodes or so.

[leaden violet]

although i feel like the infantry should've been like that? aren't the BOS paladins veterans to earn their armor

[leaden violet]

isnt the east coast BOS here now

[chrome wagon]

But i think his loyalties will be to Lucy, no matter what, over any faction. So whatever the two of them decide together - is what will happen. It's less faction reliant, more based on the relationships at hand.

[chrome wagon]

Only Xander is, not the East Coast itself.

And Xander is dead, so.

[leaden violet]

huh . . .

[chrome wagon]

Xander is a liaison. The East didn't come to the Meeting in force, all the airships you see are other Western Chapters, not the East.

[leaden violet]

ohhhh

[chrome wagon]

Which is why his arrival is suspect, and people assume there's a spy, or mole inside Quintus's chapter, because 1 the fly from the Commonwealth to the Mojave is too far. and 2 Xander immediately brings up their civil war talks, which they explicitly and only discussed during the meeting.

So someone had to have snitched. There's no way he found out that information otherwise.

[smoky juniper]

NCR is the hero faction in the show pretty obviously, would make most sense the protags join them. It would also be crazy if they just wrote them out of the setting in any meaningful way. They're just a sleeping giant atm as far as im concerned.

[chrome wagon]

So Xander had to have been close by already, on his own, to arrive there so quickly.

[smoky juniper]

altho wouldnt surprise me if they showed someone like gizmo running NCR actual

[chrome wagon]

They're not going to get written out, but there's zero evidence to suggest the protags are on their side, yet. The only one that has had meaningful interactions with the NCR has been the Ghoul, and he's been a bit of an ass. So we have to wait and see.

[smoky juniper]

They keep playing the fallout main theme when they are on screen. No other faction has gotten that sting iirc. NCR also being portrayed as the underdog would fit thematically.
To me its pretty blatantly obviosu theyre setting them up.

[leaden violet]

https://youtu.be/L6CMYxmp2Cc is this also pretty suspect? as far as I recall, did the east coast BOS not kill non-feral ghouls

[outer stirrup]

They didn’t

[leaden violet]

soooooooo xander's . . . not east coast

[outer stirrup]

He is

[chrome wagon]

He is east coast, he's an extremists. They exist inside the BOS as well.

[leaden violet]

oh ok

[chrome wagon]

His interpretation of the Codex makes non-ferals abominations. Which isn't new, there was evidence in FO3 to suggest that even members in Lyons' brotherhood saw the non-ferals as subhuman, too, and Lyons didn't do much about it, if anything at all.

[smoky juniper]

also my tangential headcanon evidence is that they're very western liberal democracy minded, just like how lucy is portrayed. she will almost guaranteed end up with the ncr

[leaden violet]

considering lyons, apparently the fo3 BOS glazing isn't as truthful as they are? like apparently the FO4 BOS are unironically a lot better at doing what the BOS before did

[chrome wagon]

It's because the FO4 BOS is a mix of Lyons, and Roger, the founder. But it doesn't mean a portion of them wouldn't try to mass-murder ghouls. It's probably not on their forefront objective as much as getting rid of Synths was. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that a decent chunk hate ghouls enough to leave a mark. But those can be chalked up to extremists, or people interpreting the Ghouls as abominations under the Codex.

[smoky juniper]

the abomination definition in fo4 only applies to ferals, so it's just a personal interpretation of the individual that dictates how you see ghouls in BoS

[leaden violet]

ohh k k k

[chrome wagon]

"Major changes were introduced under Elder Arthur Maxson in the 2280s. Like the Brotherhood of the 22nd century, the eastern division rededicated itself to the advancement of humanity. Beyond taking an active role in wasteland politics, the Brotherhood embraced some of its traditionalist roots along with Elder Lyons' policies of eradicating abominations, combining them with a new approach to controlling technology. Abominations brought about by mankind's scientific meddling are viewed as a scourge that needs to be destroyed in order for humanity to prosper. The list typically involves super mutants and feral ghouls, although the Brotherhood also eliminates raiders and other threats as a matter of course."

"The Brotherhood of Steel is dedicated to the advancement of humanity, and views mutation as a scourge. Super Mutants, Ghouls and any other 'abominations' have been deemed impure, and must be eradicated."

[leaden violet]

sooo there are three brotherhood chapters in the west coast,
Grand Canyon, from Yoseite, from Coronado.

and yeah they really do not like each other apparently

[chrome wagon]

No, they'll kill each other.

[leaden violet]

lol

[chrome wagon]

I just hope Yosemite survives, they're literally the only sensible one.

[leaden violet]

another east coast W

[chrome wagon]

Plus seeing a survivalist brotherhood chapter in the West, that's knee deep in Yao Gaui territory would be nice.

[smoky juniper]

the show is giving you selective bias though. the west coast chapters that are dumb enough to even consider opposing maxson are the ones you see in the show.

[leaden violet]

there are more?

[chrome wagon]

I've said this before, but I'm 100% convinced that Todd & Emil's goal is to make the East the New Heartland for the BOS.

[chrome wagon]

Yeah, Quintus says a bunch of Western chapters didn't show up to the meeting.

[leaden violet]

lol

[chrome wagon]

It's implied he called all of them, but a lot refused.

[leaden violet]

do we not see why the prydwen(?) crashes yet

[chrome wagon]

It's not the Prydwen, it's one of the Western airships, the Prydwen is back in the Commonwealth.
But it's because it looks like in the trailer, the Western chapters start shooting each other.

[leaden violet]

lol

[smoky juniper]

it'd be pretty based if the bos just formed the basis of ncr military + rnd and merged into a superstate

i just want to see the fanbase meltdown

[eternal locust]

They would never align

Robert house and the NCR maybe

[smoky juniper]

i wouldnt call housea faction. he's more like a key individual

and his power in the post apocalypse is still disputable since he hasnt shown to actually be producing anything. all his power as far as im concerned is nonreplenishable

[chrome wagon]

Surprisingly the only alignment that would ever happen is with Maxson. For Maxson to even exist in the East and maintain supplies, and his army's upkeep he'd have to have alliances, trade agreements, and pacts with certain factions, areas, and territories.

Arthur probably doesn't hold a grudge to the NCR in the same way the West might.

[leaden violet]

i didnt remember the solar planet being this close

[chrome wagon]

It's a bit confusing as to if it's Helios or not, cause in the recent episode there was a better visual of it, and they don't really look the same.

[leaden violet]

it'd be pretty funny if helios the building, exploded

and just left the tower and panels lol

oh wait that is the fucking building

[dull crystal]

we also see helios behind max when hes in the vertibird but theres no road or novac near it which was odd

[chrome wagon]

yeah this is what i was looking for

[leaden violet]

schroedinger's helios plant

[chrome wagon]

there's a picture of it, that specific one in that picture is Helios 1 lol

there's a better version but i couldn't find it - but yeah there's no Novac around it

[peak anvil]

What religion was the elder talking about

[chrome wagon]

None, it's just his own religious spin on the Brotherhood origin story. Since his Chapter is super religious, and more cult-like, they twisted Maxson's origin to suit their agenda.

In none of Roger Maxson's content, or his journals, or logs did he ever mention god. He just mentions snapping and killing them all, and regret about it later.

[smoky juniper]

almost feels like the artist just looked at the wiki picture

or someone just sent it to him and dindt evne tell them its a solar power plant

[leaden violet]

which, they were supposed to do?

helios looks like helios

[smoky juniper]

all the helios ones are missing the solar panel arrays

[leaden violet]

vault 24 is a new vault?

[chrome wagon]

cut content vault from FNV

[leaden violet]

ooh right

[peak anvil]

I hope we get a book or something that tells of this religion

[mortal heath]

My Courier 6 as he’s walking north past Helios

[chrome wagon]

There isn't really much to tell, it's just the Brotherhood views but justified as acts of god, and holy works. It's not really that much complex.

[leaden violet]

why is the vault tec vault empty again

[chrome wagon]

which vault specifically?

[leaden violet]

the one hank enters

[chrome wagon]

It's a Vault Tec Headquarters, i assume there's folks cryo-sleeping in there but we don't know why it's specifically empty yet.

[neon drum]

Macaulay Culkin: Rome Alone

[chrome wagon]

Shortking Legate.

[leaden violet]

macaulay caulkin being the legate and not a frumentarius is pretty odd

if he was frumentarius he'd have a penchant for making traps n shit, i think

idk if everyone in the legion often lays traps

[chrome wagon]

Just certain ones. Not all.

[tidal swallow]

I love the attention to detail with culkins charater

Hes sounds like hes crying and like a child when he says "they shoot at us"

[outer stirrup]

Poor Caesars legion

[tidal swallow]

The legion was peak until they because idiots

[leaden violet]

caulkin is too frumentarii coded bruh

[tidal swallow]

They used to actually fight for something 💔

[leaden violet]

vulpes head ass

there's a grand canyon brotherhood of steel?

does that mean they've dealt with the zionites and mormons and tribals in the region

[wild tapir]

The legion were allwas idiots

[chrome wagon]

probably

[strange idol]

Ngl it kinda bugs me that every faction in the show is "past its prime".

NCR, The Legion, Brotherhood.

[wild tapir]

Bos and ncr were past its prime in the game and legion falls without ceaser

[strange idol]

I like the idea of the Legion civil war but the way it's implemented is a little ridiculous.

I mean that's the most pathetic no man's land I've ever seen.

[chrome wagon]

It's inevitable, the writing is on the wall all over FNV, NCR is fucked cause of Kimball, Legion cannot exist without Caesar(given what one of the founders says), the West is a shell of it's former self, the Khans can't even hold Novac from 2 random folk and their dog.

[strange idol]

Bethesda never beating the "eternal wasteland" allegations.

[indigo fable]

Have y'all heard the new theory that Charlie Whiteknife is gonna be the super mutant?? Kinda crazy but could work take

[strange idol]

It would be cool to see a new faction in the show.

Rather than old factions that are shells of their former selves.

But then again Bethesda is terrified of making new factions.

[leaden violet]

did the ghoul not know what the legion were

[strange idol]

He definitely knew.

[leaden violet]

and he, didn't tell judy

[strange idol]

He forgor.

[tender shadow]

Railroad, Minutemen and the Institute would like to have a word

[leaden violet]

the legion having sunglasses is a vibe ngl

[late meadow]

How goes the theory

[leaden violet]

i think it says
"I am, -
I am tired -"

[chrome wagon]

I would laugh if it said "I am Caesar" making their succession civil war irrelevant 🤣😂

[copper ocean]

Assuming these Brotherhood-tier morons could even put two and two together on that.

[leaden violet]

apparently this map was made by a redditor

[tender shadow]

I am Caesar
I am the Legion

[leaden violet]

which chapter is maximus again

[chrome wagon]

I'd believe it

[chrome wagon]

Western, Quintus. Knights of San Fernando.

[solid moat]

It’s probably a note by Red Salad Man to remind him that he is the leader of the Legion due to the tumor.

[leaden violet]

lol

[solid moat]

Or the Courier removed more than that, effectively giving him a lobotomy.

[leaden violet]

wow that was fucking fast

[unborn helm]

Bathesda loves the BoS too much

Also, I don't like how they delivered the "Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter" line.

Should've been said by an NCR soldier.

[strange idol]

Yeah that was a little clunky.

But then again so was bringing a carriage with a nuclear bomb into the middle of Shady Sands without anyone checking.

[unborn helm]

I assumed Vault Tec some kind of missile silo, like the ones in West Virginia.

Pretty disappointing that they simply carted that shit into shady sands.

[outer stirrup]

It’s to show the NCR’s incompetence.

Hope the show explores that part of the faction more.

[unborn helm]

And I know this is Fallout, and goofy shit happens all the time, but why would a bomb have a fail-safe???

[copper ocean]

And that Shady Sands had about as much security around it as Megaton did.

Like, seriously, didn't it have far more protection in Fallout 2?

[strange idol]

Is there a single faction in the show that isn't incompetent?

[unborn helm]

Weren't their soldiers stretched thin due to the Mojave campaign?

[unborn helm]

Sigh

The BoS...

[wintry root]

That was just the Mojave

[strange idol]

The same BoS that allows its soldiers to blow up working cars and play with live grenades?

Are you sure?

[unborn helm]

Yes. Their plot armour is thicker than bowl of oatmeal.

[outer stirrup]

They are dumb as bricks

[cedar lotus]

There soldiers also most BOS soldiers aren’t like that that chapter is clearly failing

[leaden violet]

they really threw in an edited star spangled banner in the background for this 😭

[cedar lotus]

Like soldiers in every army make stupid choices unprofessionally

[strange idol]

So they're not competent either.

[copper ocean]

And who condones their troops pulling a knife during sparring matches and using power armor in sparring as well. I doubt the techies really like having to fix the dents on those things afterwards.

[outer stirrup]

Nope

[cedar lotus]

None of them are educated either it’s kinda hard to act mature for them

[strange idol]

I still don't know what the point of that scene was.

[cedar lotus]

I think that chapter is failing

[strange idol]

Why do they allow soldiers to straight up kill each other?

[cedar lotus]

To show how Maximus has grown and he’s now an elite soldier

He now has protag level fighting skills

[leaden violet]

is that vulpes

[strange idol]

It was right in front of the Elders as well.

[cedar lotus]

They were using it for entertainment

[copper ocean]

And frankly, at this point the BoS out West is a lost cause. Might as well be raiders LARP'ing at this point.

[unborn helm]

The only faction that can potentially rival the BoS is Mr. House.

But his strength is more in defence, not offence, so it's more whether he can successfully fend them off.

[outer stirrup]

Good thing the brotherhood isn’t a problem for anyone as of right now. They are dumb as shit and will be fighting each other.

[unborn helm]

I definitely feel like something is gonna happen between the East Coast BoS, West Coast BoS, and Mr. House.

Like the East Coast BoS are gonna find Mr. Houses tech and both BoS chapters are gonna form some kind of truce to fight Mr. House.

[copper ocean]

Though House wiping out Quintus's bunch would be quite fine too.

[unborn helm]

Also, the Mojave Chapter BoS still even hasn't been mentioned in the show.

[outer stirrup]

Probably dead

[rich shoal]

Bro Kevin McCallister as a Legate of Caesar’s Legion was a jumpscare

I mean all those traps he set up for those robbers did betray him as a sadistic bastard lol

[unborn helm]

Maybe it will be mentioned and the BoS is gonna unify against Mr. House to avenge them or something.

[indigo fable]

Essentially with the Deathclaws at Anchorage folks are theorizing that Whiteknife is gonna reunite and help the Ghoul and friends

[outer stirrup]

Doubt it. That’s a fight for Lucy, Maximus, and The ghoul

[indigo fable]

I need to find a better link but im at the gym i can try in a few @late meadow

[rich shoal]

Speaking of which BOS chapters are up and atom or not I wonder what’s the canon ending for Fallout 4, I hope it’s the minutemen one where everyone else is still alive

I mean definitely the All Our Powers Combined, Red Glare, and Airship Down missions are not canon

[zenith gazelle]

My claim is that the independent endings with minimal side quests are the canon

[thin field]

Looks to be an indie ending, I was hoping for a house ending.

[unborn helm]

How is it looking like an indie ending?

[leaden violet]

holy peak https://open.spotify.com/track/2ENAq6P3HvQzWullu7SoYz?si=e4059438ebd1420e

[zenith gazelle]

Presumably the leaks of the strip in collapse.

Although Victor still being around does complicate that idea

[leaden violet]

maximus and harkness taking on a securitron, they definitely dragged on that fight

[outer stirrup]

Yes

[zenith gazelle]

Yeah I love the practical effects, but damn that fight was a slog

Just do a little bit of vfx to not make everything look like a puppet fight

[outer stirrup]

Yeah it looked terrible

[trail sentinel]

Yeah not the strongest fight so far visually wise

And it is not like it is a problem with PA props, they look good otherwise and in other fight segments they work well
That just wasn't it lol

[zenith gazelle]

There's a reason why things like the MCU use practical costumes for filming, then replace everything with digital to make it less cumbersome on screen

[leaden violet]

oh waw they just blew up caesar's legion

WAIT THE SACRED TEXTS, NOOOOOOOOO

[zenith gazelle]

Power armor just needs a little bit of post effect sauce to give it the right weight and impact. And not clearly look like a foam suit on a PVC skeleton

[leaden violet]

but they, already give it post effects?

even cgi in some scenes

[zenith gazelle]

They add some canned simulation effects but they could have tightened up that whole fight

[leaden violet]

tbf it seemed like they were just throwing hands for fun

[steel pulsar]

I've been thinking. Remember that scene from the trailer with Coop and Rafi Silver's version of House in an elevator?
I think he's gonna kill him thinking he's the real house

Then the scene with the real House in his penthouse plays where he goes "i know you came here to kill me"

[cedar lotus]

I’m here to voice my awesome fallout opinions

I’m in an hour and half car ride home

[sick nest]

i don't think so

he says "I think you are quite a violent man", that would kinda be a pointless statement if he just killed the fake house in an elecator

[chrome wagon]

Yeah, considering House is shown to be stalking Coop, lol He's been studying/judging him for a bit.

[viscid yacht]

Just a note. San Fran was never under the control of the NCR, it’s always been the Shi and Hubologists.

[wind timber]

the commonwealth brotherhood peacekeep in terms of humans, they've literally never been fond of ghouls and mutants

in 3, the most progressive faction of the brotherhood, they literally take potshots at ghouls at the underworld and discriminate to the point that the residents say that the super mutants may as well be nicer than the brotherhood lol

Discrimination against mutants and ghouls have always been apart of the brotherhood, and maxson's simply amplifies it times 10

and to your other point, their are crazy motherfuckers in every faction, both in the real world and in game

just because a faction says one thing or another, doesn't mean an individual won't go off his rocker, especially someone like Xander

give a man who's grown up in an authoritarian military group, teach him that he as a human is superior in every way to ghouls and mutants, teach him to act openly hostile to said groups, and then give that man authority, a gun, and a suit of power armor, and things tend to go south

[wind timber]

These non game examples openly play into a core part of fallout with its whole "war never changes" schtick, its apart of the whole human nature thing

Bitter Springs is a big one if you missed it

Hell, the first game literally opens with an American soldier blowing a Canadian POWs head off with a gun while his other buddy laughs, and then they OPENLY BROADCASTED it as a propaganda piece

[trail sentinel]

Then it cuts to a car ad

[noble owl]

I cant

[cobalt sundial]

They weren't ever a peacekeeping faction as far as I can tell

In 4 they arrive to conduct a military campaign and their ending constitutes them obliterating all coherent resistance to them in the region

[noble owl]

I love peace. I’ll kill how ever many men women and children it takes to get it

-some dude in a toilet helmet

[wraith jay]

They literally show up to kill all synthetic people and hurl slurs at all ghouls and mutants they see (which are only saved from being gunned down due to their connection to the player)

[summer surge]

so with the Max NCR theory

He kills Xander for being racist towards ghouls

befriends Thaddeus who's becoming a ghoul.. or something

we know NCR support ghouls, in the show too they mention this

we see ghouls in the Observatory and Captain Rodriguez mentions rights to ghouls

BoS doesn't like em. but NCR..

[cobalt sundial]

There are a few other moments in 4 where they seem to sanitize things a fair bit compared to what I'd intuitively expect to happen (nuka world mainly)

4 seems to shy away from making any particular playable faction too explicitly bad

[cobalt sundial]

I think Maximus' path is less about ghouls and more about being disillusioned with the brotherhood at large

[summer surge]

it can be both

[cobalt sundial]

At the end of season 1 he's seen that there are other ways to do things and knows the brotherhood is flawed, by this point in season 2 what limited reassurance he's gotten from his new role seems to be worn away leaving him with those earlier sentiments they hint at in season 1

Up until this point he still hasn't really interacted with the ghoul, has he?

[outer stirrup]

Nope

[cobalt sundial]

Wednesday can't come soon enough

[half quarry]

I thought the brotherhood was founded in West Virginia?

[wild tapir]

It was founded in California

[half quarry]

But the lab they were at were they shot the scientists was in West Virginia though?

[cobalt sundial]

Nah, Mariposa military base in California

[wild tapir]

It was in California

[cobalt sundial]

It's actually a bit of a hole in the show so far because the Yosemite chapter should be probably the oldest chapter of the brotherhood because of its location

[wraith jay]

Yeah they do sanitize it and make it less morally black but the troops legit call Hancock slurs and say they wish they could kill him lol

[wraith jay]

How so?

[cobalt sundial]

Lost hills is pretty close to Mariposa (in the same hilled off desert) which is in Yosemite

[visual cedar]

What if fallout 5 is about the BOS civil war, and it takes place both in the east and west

Lwk would be cool

[wind timber]

I'd prefer the next game not to focus on the brotherhood yet again

next game is likely going to be on the west coast

[visual cedar]

Lol yeah, I was thinking they focused too much on the BOS

We need Midwest fallout

Or South

[carmine vault]

Florida lets go to vault tec world

[visual cedar]

Florida would be insane

Florida probably has no idea the world ended

[carmine vault]

I just wanna see a vault tec theme park

[visual cedar]

Just visit Nuka World

[carmine vault]

I mean i feel a florida setting would have a disney world equivalent

[visual cedar]

True…

[carmine vault]

Alongside aligators

[wild tapir]

So nukaworld

[carmine vault]

I dunno vault tec markets the hell out of vault boy despite having miracle tech

[zenith gazelle]

Disney world would become Vault Land or some shit

[carmine vault]

I kinda want to see their rivals pelowski preservation just be some shoddy knock off

But like seriously what would be some cool ideas for florida setting, alaska/canada would be interesting also

I feel alaska would have some left over chinese maybe forming their own communities

[alpine veldt]

Fucking hell I just got to when they're in caesar's camp and the helmet comes off and I can't

[viscid yacht]

I doubt it. The US had like, 9 months after liberating anchorage to clear out any remaining pockets.

[alpine veldt]

Ok if I don't see actual functional NCR now I riot.

Stop it Todd, plz

[half quarry]

Wait why didn’t quentis want maximus to kill the paladin?

[chrome wagon]

Short king Legate.

[chrome wagon]

Cause it would start a war.

[copper ocean]

Kinda curious to see how Maximus tries to explain why Xander’s suddenly AWOL.

[leaden violet]

The ghoul having a change of heart is crazy work

Does it by killing a lot of legionnaires too

[half quarry]

Ok but why didn’t he just say that, didn’t he give a completely different reason?

[chrome wagon]

He did though?

[half quarry]

I don’t remember what he said but he definitely didn’t say “it would start a war”

[chrome wagon]

Nope, just saw the scene, it's exactly what he says

"If we kill the envoy from the Commonwealth, it will be war."

[half quarry]

Oh okay

[alpine veldt]

Generally speaking killing an envoy goes badly for peace yes

[half quarry]

I was confused when I saw it initially because I thought he was talking about the elder who said they wouldn’t join them

[chrome wagon]

almost always, yeah lol

[alpine veldt]

Its also gonna go down bad for max given what he said in front of the other leaders.

Although I feel vindicated in the legion descending in to civil war.

Take that #fallout_general , I told you.

[half quarry]

Seeing the ghoul look at both caesars made me laugh lmao

[alpine veldt]

Its a bit too comical for my liking but it is exactly what would happen.

I do also like them kind of going more in to how religion got in to max's chapter.

[half quarry]

Im really hoping they have an explanation for all these mistakes but honestly I think they’re running with it

[alpine veldt]

Or at least why they believe it.

[half quarry]

Im still confused if the brotherhood was founded in California what were the tapes in fallout 76 about?

[alpine veldt]

Maxson reached out to others and someone listened.

[chrome wagon]

I feel like majority of the Fallout community knew it would, especially because so many NPCs said it, too. And y'know, the second most important person to the Legion, the co-founder, Joshua echoing this is pretty telling. lol

[alpine veldt]

The brotherhood started in the west, but in 76 some armed forces heard what he had to say and liked it.

Realistically it's just Bethesda slapping the brotherhood in everything but ultimately what maxson said has weight so like... it works.

[half quarry]

But wasn’t it literally Roger Maxson in the tapes?

[alpine veldt]

Its how literally every dictatorship works.

[somber swift]

btw Lanius is dead, right? Or else he'd have probably taken the reins

[chrome wagon]

Yes, Roger was talking to friends and co he met up with. In 76, Tagardery's thunder is a unit he turned into a Chapter. Which he's confirmed to do in Fallout 1 & 2.
So 76 just reinforces that he went around doing that as far East and West as he could.

[chrome wagon]

|| Lanius and Caesar are dead, yes. ||

[half quarry]

Man walked from California to West Virginia? Impressive

[half quarry]

Killed by Macaulay Culkin no doubt

[alpine veldt]

Idk if he went there, I know it was originally radio communication or whatever

But they knew each other pre war.

76 ran like arse for me so barely played it.

[somber swift]

i'd be sad if that was it but ah well

[half quarry]

Im waiting for the enclave to show up

[cobalt sundial]

I would assume he didn't walk away from the dam or if he did Caesar gave him the graham treatment before his own death

[alpine veldt]

Enclave barely exists west coast from what we know so it'll be interesting to see what they've done with them.

How they've built them back up etc.

[somber swift]

i'm starting to believe that it was either a mr house victory or a messy yes-man with the courier walking away

[cobalt sundial]

It sounds like they're just introducing new locations we didn't know about before

[alpine veldt]

That'd be the easiest way but it'd be a bit odd.

[half quarry]

Wow I really suck at American geography

[cobalt sundial]

These are the only two feasible endings that would enable both factions to exist in the Mojave
And I think a house ending is more likely of the two just because y'know it's a much more interesting story element

[half quarry]

I thought Las Vegas was in Texas

[cobalt sundial]

Not as odd as the enclave establishing new facilities entirely would be

[somber swift]

yeah but the fact that mr house is apparently gone too (going by victor's state) makes me think the Courier decided to kill him or House lost control somehow

[cobalt sundial]

Victor is a suspicious source in this case

[copper ocean]

Simple, maybe blame the 76’ers for laying the foundation for that. Place as isolated as Appalachia would be perfect for a new Enclave headquarters, and it even has operational nuclear silos.

[chrome wagon]

This isn't really concrete from Victor's point, because Victor is online. If House is gone, Victor wouldn't be active.

[cobalt sundial]

They also foreshadowed some stuff with Victor and going off of the games... Well house doesn't tell Victor squat unless he needs to