EPISODE 5

[fierce arch]

here

[forest raptor]

ah okay fair enough

[shy apex]

And how well scored , art designed

[foggy haven]

if you squint that graffiti says khans

[fierce arch]

It's in different lots, the lots are just literally ALL next to each other.

[forest raptor]

i did think that shot of the NCR troopers lining up from the BTS footage looked very similar to the troopers marching in the flashback

[shy apex]

The musical scores are all god tier

And everything looks like the game items turned to 8k

[fierce arch]

Yeah, it was BTS - i was convinced too until i double backed and we started looking. Yeah, and in none of the legion pictures, was the vault group actually in them, too.

[forest raptor]

its quite impressive tbf because season 2 imo does a really good job at showing off the scale of everything and how far apart each lcoation is

[foggy haven]

im pretty sure theyre going to retcon that the enclave is responsible for dropping the bombs they are most certainly the third party house is trying to find

[fierce arch]

Yeah, even when im watching? It doesn't register it's all literally right next too each other.

[shy apex]

It can’t really be a retcon. There’s never been any canon

The f1 and 2 writers said they would have had china drop them because of fev. But that was never canon canon and they aren’t the owners and havnt been for 2 decades

[forest raptor]

i don't think theyre gonna go down the route of saying the enclave dropped the bombs - they might have motive similar to vault tec but i imagine they're still gonna keep the whole thing vague

[shy apex]

We quite literally have never known who dropped the bombs and it’s better that way

[forest raptor]

ye i prefer this angle to it

[warm linden]

I still believe that Moldaver is still alive. There's gotta be a reason she didn't age at all in the 1st season and my guess is cloning like Gary

[shy apex]

She did age. She’s way older

[warm linden]

Yeah but not 200 years older

[forest raptor]

yeah i dont even know how theyre gonna explain this one either now that shes dead, unless they reveal it through the cooper flasbacks maybe

[shy apex]

She was obviously in cryo

[foggy haven]

again fallout 2 the president straight up says china dropped first. if they said thats not canon afterwards thats one thing or maybe theyll say he was just lying or something but either way fo2 did have an answer whether its still canon or not

[forest raptor]

but where

[shy apex]

There’s like 400 morbillion cryo facilities out there now

[forest raptor]

idk rn we only have vault tec cryo places and i highly doubt they'd give moldover a spot

[warm linden]

She was also revered like a god in the mutant Vault

[foggy haven]

she snuck in

[shy apex]

Everyone’s pulling these batshit ‘omg she must be a super perfect ghoul’ no , she was just in cryo

This isn’t even media illiteracy. It’s media death

[forest raptor]

its obvioulsy cryo i agree but the plot hasnt explained where or how yet its intentionally left vague as of this moment

[shy apex]

She’s a super rich person who helped invent cold fusion dj you not think she could find or get cryo tech

Hell her company probably invented the damn thing at this point

[forest raptor]

probably but like i said they havent explained that yet

[shy apex]

They don’t need to. It’s common sense

[forest raptor]

not really when cryo has been reserved so far exlclusively for vault tec

[shy apex]

They literally have the same explanation for Hank in the same episode she exposits, it’s pretty clear how she’s alive

[warm linden]

I don't think it's cryo cause what, she just so happens to wake up around the time all this is happening? The way she was revered like a god in Vault 4 makes me think that she's been active for a long time

[carmine bay]

Dick Richardson: "We were winning, too. And then those damn Reds launched everything they had. We barely got our birds up”

[foggy haven]

again for clarification this is what i was referring too

[forest raptor]

she probably woke up ages ago like hank, she had been an NCR citizen for years it seems

[fierce arch]

Given that there's a cryopod discrepancy in the Vault cryopods it's not impossible that Moldaver probably took advantage of that.

[shy apex]

And again. Vault tec has forced buyouts of companies leading in tech

Cryo tech is likely another company’s tech that was bought out.

[forest raptor]

perhaps, i expecet moldover's story to be carried forward alongside cooper's in the flashbacks

[foggy haven]

richardson really has no reason to lie about the enemy launching the first nukes

[fierce arch]

Probably, yeah. We still have some pre-war flashbacks left.

[shy apex]

Dick Richardson is a mad name

[carmine bay]

Good convo here going over the Enclave probably being taken by surprise in 76 as well #1447295973129978058 message

[oblique tulip]

We saw moldaver die unless she pulls a William afton on us

[shy apex]

Richard Richardson. Ok dude

Who named you, your parents

[carmine bay]

Moldaver is a perfect ghoul. She’ll just heal up like Coop

[oblique tulip]

Moldaver isn't a ghoul tho

[shy apex]

https://tenor.com/view/purple-guy-dance-william-afton-dance-purple-guy-jiggy-purple-jiggy-purple-dance-gif-17627065305568870467

[foggy haven]

she was a ghoul the whole time her nose just hasnt fallen off yet

[carmine bay]

That’s just like your opinion man

[foggy haven]

she glued it back on

[shy apex]

Pretty sure it’s direct fact

[oblique tulip]

Its more beleiveable that she's a perfect fev mutant

[shy apex]

There’s not been a single ghoul ever that hasn’t decomposed on the outside. Even the ones who did it deliberately in controlled settings

[foggy haven]

chris haversam

[shy apex]

Occams razer gentleman

[shy apex]

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-reaction-information-my-reaction-to-that-information-my-honest-reaction-to-that-information-gif-613275461876515673

[carmine bay]

Fuck you stole my line

[shy apex]

You two are edging closer to a hoover damn special. Skydiving with no parachute

I’ve got yes man on speed dial (he’s in the phone)

[foggy haven]

who else could be repsonsible for irradiating new vegas

[shy apex]

Me

[foggy haven]

from a writing perspective it seems like the show is setting up an enclave reveal

we see them in season 1
they are working on mind controlling dogs
mind control is a big part of season 2
mr house says theres a third party hes unaware of prewar
deathclaws are shown in prewar and then during the show

its tying together quite nicely that the enclave is responsible for everything here possibly even launching the bombs if they want to go that far

[dark needle]

I've said it before but I've always preferred the idea the Chinese threw the first nuke

[forest raptor]

yeah i imagine theyll be revealed in the final episode of this season explicitly by name but i dont actually see them being involed in this season at all

next season perhaps tho

[foggy haven]

im sure they will be antagonists of season 3 or fallout 5

[fierce arch]

I imagine FO5 will have multiple antagonists.

[oblique tulip]

Or both

[fierce arch]

If it's on the West Coast, which everything is point to that - it's probably gonna be like FNV, but more larger factions at play. NCR, Khans, Legion, Enclave.

The Khans having large territory control, as well as being at War with the legion suggests that the Wyoming Ending is canon, too.

[warm linden]

Would be cool if we could finally properly side with The Enclave in Fallout 5

It’s crazy that it’s the only main faction throughout the series that we can’t join lol

[carmine bay]

The enclave are fascists so erm no
Joining the Legion is cool tho!

[dark needle]

fallout 76

[carmine bay]

Modus does not count

[dark needle]

MODUS is the best AI

[fierce arch]

MODUS is technically Enclave, but he's rogue, so i mean. You can't necessarily join the Secret Service, either.

[foggy haven]

no play as bad guys

what do you think this is? an rpg?

[carmine bay]

https://tenor.com/view/fallout-1-fallout-fev-the-master-gif-11790937452286209576

[topaz fjord]

Do you think the modus enclave kept going and became its own thing

[worthy solar]

Depends on what Appalachia is like circa 2296; for all we know, the region eventually became the East Coast Divide from all the 76'er-launched nukes going off all over the place.

[dark needle]

Wasn't thst the lore from the battle royal mode? All those nukes eventually killed Appalachia

[fierce arch]

No, the battle royale is non-canon.

[dark needle]

Fair

[fierce arch]

Because they added additional chronological lore to the nukes. So TECHNICALLY, the nukes only were launched 3 times.
but the creation club mod, if it's considered canon - which idk if it is, implies that the 76ers became tribals, and formed tribes and operated against each other for control of the silos.

[dark needle]

One nuke for each event boss? But isn't there 4 now?

[fierce arch]

There's 4, yes, but the nuke blows up above the storm in Skyline, it never lands.

[worthy solar]

Which is a shame; Appalachia would make a good base for the Enclave to re-coaelsce around after Fallout 3 alongside their other remaining bases elsewhere in North America.

[fierce arch]

The storm in Skyline valley destroys the nuke.

[dark needle]

Ahh yeah that's right

[fierce arch]

Well, it depends, if that CC mod is non-canon, it can still happen.

But also Burning Springs establishes Ohio with high Enclave presence, enough to create the Rust King who is probably the biggest successful Super Mutant we've seen that isn't a behemoth.

[foggy haven]

well we know enclave still has a big presence based off season 1 of the show

[forest raptor]

i like the idea while every faction on the surface is dying on the west coast the enclave are just rebuilding and theyve got mind control and cold fusion like thats just crazy

[foggy haven]

its clearly setting up Fallout 5

[forest raptor]

oh and theyre continuing the fev experiments

[worthy solar]

And who knows how much they've put their fingers on the scale to facilitate those factions having problems.

[fierce arch]

That facility in season 1 has a fucking working train system, it looks like

[foggy haven]

i think well see resurgance of legion and ncr post season 2

[fierce arch]

ofc, I'm pretty sure San Fran, with all the Factions in the show will be FO5, tbh.

[foggy haven]

if legate kevinus becomes the new caesar and maximus brings back the ncr

[forest raptor]

oh yeah that too lol

[foggy haven]

i hope we can actually be enclave for once

[forest raptor]

true i do wonder how involved they are in surface affairs or if they really just are isolating

[worthy solar]

Though at bare minimum, the show or at least Fallout 5 hopefully is the Enclave's last hurrah; there's only so many continuity of government sites to stage their revival from to try and reclaim America yet again.

[foggy haven]

i mean they were really only in 2 games

as main factions

[worthy solar]

Yeah, but do we really want to be still fighting the Enclave by the time our kids graduate college?

[foggy haven]

yes

[foggy haven]

you mean when Fallout 5 release date is announced

[worthy solar]

I mean after Fallout 5. I dunno, it'd just feel silly to still be throwing hands with the Enclave long after the show and Fo5 when the year's, say, halfway through the 2300's.

[topaz fjord]

If lacrate becomes the new caeser would he name himself aftet another roman emperor?

[foggy haven]

probably just call himself caesar

[worthy solar]

Maybe Augustus?

[foggy haven]

caesar is a title not a name

[worthy solar]

Caesar Augustus then.

[topaz fjord]

I get the impression his characters more clever than he lets on and may actually know a bit about the legions historical influence

[fierce arch]

It's just Caesar. Caesar is the title.

[oblique tulip]

Just ceaser

[narrow phoenix]

I mean judging by the civil war breaking out, and what's going on with Vegas, me Thinks BOS are gonna get krumped.

[foggy haven]

Good

[narrow phoenix]

I wouldn't be surprised if House gets the cold fusion, BoS will try to do a hail mary instead of reading between the lines and get ripped apart by Super Mutants/Deathclaws.

[fierce arch]

The question is how the BOS would even get there.

Are we assuming the 3 chapters just stop fighting each other?

And Xander quite literally just died like, maybe a day or so ago? Odds are the Commonwealth haven't heard yet.

I'm almost positive the BOS is out of the game for season 2, atm.

Now season 3, depending on how much time passes or what have you - that's another story.

[spark cloud]

Gaius Julius Caesar was his name too, his title was dictator

[chilly oasis]

Brotherhood runs to the Strip while beating the shit out of itself at the same time.

[spark cloud]

Just like Augustus was a name before it became a title

[fierce arch]

Unless Quintus SOMEHOW RETURNS - maybe they steal one of the other airships, idk. I just don't see it happening. lmfao

[oblique tulip]

Quintus is alive

[fierce arch]

I know he's alive, but I mean return as in come back to the narrative.

[dawn dust]

Yeah we’re definitely not getting the

“bos, enclave, ncr, legion, & Mr house final battle on the strip” people on this server keep talking about.

Atleast not with the bos

The bos seem out of the picture for the rest of the season

[carmine bay]

The Enclave isn’t showing up either

The BoS being gone for the rest of the season would feel awkward to me but perhaps they’ll keep them on the shelf for S3.

[fierce arch]

there's no way the Commonwealth is coming to the West though. lol Quintus will exist only to serve as Maximus's closure for his time with the BOS - whether he kills him willingly or inadvertently.

[carmine bay]

I never said anything about the commonwealth

[dawn dust]

I can see the NCR and legion fighting for a final battle

[forest raptor]

Do we think the legion civil war and new caesar scenes will be done within 1 episode

[dawn dust]

Yes

[forest raptor]

Makes sense were running out of episodes this season lol

[dawn dust]

I believe this is going to happen

[dawn dust]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/629904277753823232/1462609728864518174/image.png?ex=696ed0f5&is=696d7f75&hm=1105ef0f0e66f365e11a8f4030ff692067ca29e3762d48844e7ded351eb4be5a&

[radiant birch]

Part of me wonders if this was for the Shady Sands scene actually

[dawn dust]

Too many soldiers. I doubt it

[forest raptor]

Im wondering if our trio will actually all be together in the finale because we know lucy is in the bunker ghoul will be in the lucky 38 and maximus fighting on the strip - could work out

[forest raptor]

We had a guy who had been to the sets in person say this bts screenshot was for a different scene

[chilly oasis]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-yoda-sad-disappointed-am-i-mandalorian-gif-15937614

[dawn dust]

NCR vs Legion just makes much more sense

[forest raptor]

I think there will be some kind of conflict other than the deathclaws on the strip but I doubt it'll be something TOO crazy

[chilly oasis]

Brother, where the fuck is the NCR? They’re no longer in the Mojave

[forest raptor]

Ye something like this i believe

[forest raptor]

No clue but they've apparently got another scene this season

[dawn dust]

Episode 7 trust

[radiant birch]

Two broke homeless factions fighting each other

[chilly oasis]

Idfk what to believe anymore.

[forest raptor]

I also just dont think the only conflict we get in the finale will br the deathclaw scene

[dawn dust]

I said this for EVERY episode but I have a good feeling about this one

[forest raptor]

Lmao

[chilly oasis]

20 minute nothingburger scene of Coop and House yapping in Lucky 38

[radiant birch]

I think the biggest issue with the show is that it’s trying to play with individual characters in a faction driven setting

The individual characters are really well done

But the factions are falling to the side

[fierce arch]

Enclave tease, for sure but im not sure what else.

[radiant birch]

That’s one thing I will NOT diss the show for

The acting and the characters are written well

[fierce arch]

The factions are not important to the character's narrative.

The only one it was relevant to was Maximus.

[forest raptor]

Na theres gotta be some more action s1 which was on a lower budget had one massive ncr bos battle that all 3 characters were somehow involved in

[slow wadi]

This'll probably the last 2 episodes.

[forest raptor]

This too

[radiant birch]

The difference is that New Vegas is probably the most faction driven game in the series

[chilly oasis]

Like I said, it would have benefitted from being set in a region not explored yet.

[fierce arch]

That, if im being honest and it's a tough pill to swallow? It doesn't matter. lol The setting is not what's driving the narrative.

[carmine bay]

It’ll be the lost battalion and that squad from earlier

[chilly oasis]

What, in the show? Sure.

[fierce arch]

Yes ofc in the show. lol

The setting is merely a stepping point - an area the journey is happening in. The Factions falling to the way side, is because the factions are not the focus.

They're not there to shackle up with the NCR, or find out the latest politics, etc etc. They're there to hunt down Hank, and Maximus was tangled up with the BOS - and now is probably gonna go find Lucy.

[radiant birch]

I don’t think you understand the issue

It’s not because the show isn’t hyper focused on the setting. It’s that the games ARE hyper focused on the setting

The games are all hyper focused on the factions and the politics

[fierce arch]

I do understand what you're saying, but that's not what the show is aiming for. Especially with characters NOT INTERESTED in the Factions.

All the characters in previous games, had INTEREST in the Factions, you could not escape it.

You were shoehorned one way or another - in the show, this is not the case.

No one has to join. Everyone can do their own thing.

That's not even considering the fact that the Mojave has the factions in a weakened state, even to interact with - there isn't much there.

[forest raptor]

My two cent: none of the 3 leads seem too keen of factions anymore which reflects that the shows story is more character driven BUT that said I do think a lot of faction worldbuilding is still happening even if some of the decisions are a bit questionable

[fierce arch]

This, this is the biggest reason why the Factions are getting almost little to no attention.

[forest raptor]

Like the bos civil war thing and west coast decline is very interesting to me

[chilly oasis]

Well, time to wait for Fallout 5 to see what happened to the NCR.

[forest raptor]

I do think it will get addressed probably next season

[fierce arch]

Like i'm convinced the characters will be forced next season to address Factions.

[forest raptor]

Itll just happen outside of whatever the main 3 are doing

[chilly oasis]

Actually imagine after Season 2, we don’t even get a mention of the Legion and Brotherhood too

[fierce arch]

I'd actually crash out. We get a new Caesar and they're just gone? lmao
At least with the brotherhood, there's always another chapter nearby.

[forest raptor]

I still think these factions will be heavily involved in the story theres veen ALOT of ncr bos and legion buildup this season

[chilly oasis]

Because Bethesda is the one running the shots. If they got rid of the posterboys, it wouldn’t be Fallout right? /j

[fierce arch]

It'll converge together in Season 3, we'll see factions making moves - while our 3 characters do, and it'll be met at a crossroads.

[carmine bay]

Yeah I’m gonna be honest I think the Legion will be a one and done thing this season

They’ll show up in the finale, they’ll all die, and then the plot will move to another location (probably west) next season and we won’t see them again

[autumn tangle]

He’s a smoooth operatorrrrrrr

Smooooooth operaaaaatooooor

[radiant birch]

read my display name

[fierce arch]

that's fine, it's still Khan country.

[carmine bay]

Very true

[slow wadi]

The Khan's expanding so much is actually accurate, Chem trade gonna go crazy

[foggy haven]

I don't think anybody's expecting a big battle scene with enclave soldiers or anything but they're definitely setting up an enclave reveal probably in the last episode or so

[high kettle]

apparently whatever happened to the atomic wrangler, homie let go of fisto for some reason

[fierce arch]

you'd be surprised. Half the people in the server think Maxson is coming with Liberty prime. lol

[foggy haven]

I fully expect NCR and legion battle but that's about it

[slow wadi]

Crazy cause Fisto is their biggest attraction, besides Beatrix

[foggy haven]

We already got a decent bos fight anyway

[slow wadi]

I kinda want the Legion to be in powerarmor too but I know that mostly goes against what they "believe" in

[foggy haven]

Caesar Kevinus showing up in Legion power armor

[forest raptor]

lmao fr

[carmine bay]

If the BoS show up I just expect Quintus and whoever survived on his side. Maybe they follow Maximus’ trail.

[slow wadi]

We've given every faction Power Armor, the Legion can have a set too

Legate Power Armor

[carmine bay]

No that would be dumb

[foggy haven]

What if it was made of bronze

[carmine bay]

[high kettle]

fisto isnt actually working in the atomic wrangler, hes wholly just for the james garrett

[foggy haven]

Legion power armor would probably look like some 40k stuff

[forest raptor]

tbf the legion were given quite nice looking armour for the tv show

[foggy haven]

People say they neutered the legion meanwhile the first thing we see them do is slit the throat of that slave

And then put Lucy on a cross

[fierce arch]

The only people bitching about the legion are the folks who are in denial that the only thing keeping them a competent military force was Caesar

[spark cloud]

God I wish that was me

[foggy haven]

And you know the two camps being side by side would absolutely be the same if this was in the game

[carmine bay]

I doubt it

[foggy haven]

No they would absolutely set it up like that so you could go from side to side for whatever quest it would be

[fierce arch]

LMAO you're not wrong

[slow wadi]

I think the NCR and Legion will join together and kiss each other softly all night long

[carmine bay]

I think Sawyer is a tad more of a serious writer than that and would likely have better ideas

[slow wadi]

Bear and Bull love again

[foggy haven]

The Legion was at an all time low and an embarrassment of their former self House predicted this exact thing would happen after Caesar died

[fierce arch]

Not just house, literally every important character in the lore predicted it. lol

[carmine bay]

I think a Sawyer written post-Caesar & Lanius Legion would likely be an expansive collection of fractured warlords desperately competing for territory, not two dudes sitting across from one another separated by a dirt mound.

[forest raptor]

idk nv is full of silly quests you can literally send a ton of ghouls to space

[carmine bay]

the Legion aren’t written as a joke

[foggy haven]

Caesar isn't

[forest raptor]

i mean they kind of are its just treated more subtley

[civic comet]

I want whatever this person smoked

[foggy haven]

But the legion is full of idiots

[forest raptor]

they literally wear football kits

[carmine bay]

If you mean ideologically sure, but again, this is handled with tact

[foggy haven]

Of course neither side would back down from the corpse of Caesar whom they treated like a god

[fierce arch]

they're a cult, at the end of the day lol

[foggy haven]

You can say it looked silly but they would 100% do this

[radiant birch]

Fallout 5 is going to be the other half of the Van Buren ideas that weren’t used in New Vegas

[forest raptor]

i do get what youre saying in that having the two factions on either side of a small hill is kind of a bit over the top silly but theyve definitely hammered home alot of the aesthetic of the legion with the outfits crucifixes slaves etc

[carmine bay]

https://tenor.com/view/ahem-shit-loser-seriously-gif-5731140

[radiant birch]

Tibbets Prison, Presper, Hoover Dam as a settlement rather than NCR occupied, Reservation, Daughters of Hecate, New Plague, Etc

[carmine bay]

The aesthetics are fine yeah

[radiant birch]

THINK ABOUT IT

[carmine bay]

Daughters of Hecate would be based

[foggy haven]

Not only that but this is a legion that is YEARS after Caesar is dead he's already a skeleton is it really a surprise they have grown so fanatical

[civic comet]

shit must've reeked after a few months

like they are 30 feet from a decomposing body

[carmine bay]

The legion being fanatical was never in question

[fierce arch]

i'd laugh my ass off if they were fighting over that hill for years. Holy shit.

[foggy haven]

The legion is unwilling to even look at the note in his pocket

[radiant birch]

They’re building up to Van Buren. TRVST ME

[fierce arch]

The fucking note says "I am Caesar" istg

[radiant birch]

TRVST THE PLVN

[civic comet]

van buren is fnv

[radiant birch]

HALF of van buren is fnv

[civic comet]

other half is gone

[foggy haven]

Because the truth is they have become corrupt and even if the note said who is successor was they wouldn't follow it because they lost the way this is why Legate Kevinus is the true successor

[radiant birch]

other half could potentially be used!

[civic comet]

no

[radiant birch]

It allows for NCR and Caesar’s Legion to show up in a mainline Fallout game again

[civic comet]

all the good ideas were picked clean

[radiant birch]

wrong! wrong!

[civic comet]

had to add the extra wrong for emphasis

[foggy haven]

Yeah but yeah but

[radiant birch]

I will add another

wrong!

[foggy haven]

They just need to bring back talking deathclaws

[civic comet]

god no

[slow wadi]

It's a little silly, but it's meant to be 1 camp that split in two, or at least that's how I saw it

[radiant birch]

Dread it. Run from it. Van Buren is real and it is COMING FOR YOU

[forest raptor]

tbf i much prefer the nv plot than the mad scientist one of van buren

[civic comet]

Ik, I'm saying from first hand experience that a rotting body doesn't smell good

[fierce arch]

Not EVERYTHING in Van Buren was perfect lol . . .

[forest raptor]

that said i hope we see more of the new plague because its canon but its not really been explored much

[civic comet]

There were reasons they cancelled it

[radiant birch]

Which is why if they DO rework van buren then they’ll fix it up and make it presentable

[civic comet]

Which they won't

[radiant birch]

Money

[civic comet]

Too expensive, not profitable enough to make that bet

[radiant birch]

That’s literally the only reason Van Buren got canned. They didn’t have enough money or time to ship it

[fierce arch]

Maybe? but didn't the map they slap behind Quintus end up being a fan one and not their own? lol

[civic comet]

Production error prob

[foggy haven]

Van Buren is coming there is no escape Richard

[fierce arch]

There's so much omission from that, lol

[foggy haven]

We simply ran out of money

[fierce arch]

Yeah, the HOW and WHY is super mf important. 😂😂

[radiant birch]

Well i mean if you want me to go over the entire history of interplay and black isle

[civic comet]

Interplay would have sold their employee's kidneys if they could, just to stay afloat

[carmine bay]

This would be true if the Daughters of Hecate were used

[radiant birch]

The point is that Van Buren didn’t get canned because certain parts of the story were stupid

[fierce arch]

No, I don't.
Besides I'd rather not get smited by the mods for not talking about the show.

[civic comet]

Doubt they care that much

[foggy haven]

It's ok guys because Van Buren stuff was on the map

[radiant birch]

YESSSSSSS LET ME PUSH MY AGENDA

[fierce arch]

You wanna bet?

[radiant birch]

VAN BUREN FOR FALLOUT 5 RELEASING IN 2043

[foggy haven]

The Van Buren is real!

[civic comet]

I mean how can you force a mod to comb through here

[fierce arch]

They usually are watching, just chill about it - but they typically do come in and course correct if people aren't talking about the show specifically.

[foggy haven]

I can think of a few ways

[civic comet]

That's what I said

[radiant birch]

Isn’t it odd that they haven’t shown Hoover Dam Yet…?

[fierce arch]

Not really, no.

[radiant birch]

Mayb it’s because it looks different…..

[civic comet]

House isn't dead

[fierce arch]

Could be.

[foggy haven]

Hoover Dam is insignificant next to the power of the cold fusion

[fierce arch]

So curious, if the Van Buren stuff doesn't pan out, what's the agenda, then?

[slow wadi]

Remember house used a double. So the REAL house could probably still be alive.

[fierce arch]

Ayo

[forest raptor]

but the real house wore the same device we see house wear in his lifepod in nv

[foggy haven]

Are you telling me House in NV was the double this whole time

[fierce arch]

It better not be, that'd be stupid af.

[radiant birch]

I will gladly look forward to the next location of the fallout series.

[warm linden]

Nah lol why would he need a decoy post war

[fierce arch]

I promise you the courier did nothing to House and he wouldn't need a decoy post war. lol

[radiant birch]

also why would the decoy be the one in the container

[fierce arch]

exactly???

[foggy haven]

Did the double survive the great war

[fierce arch]

No clue, probably not.

[foggy haven]

House himself barely survived

[warm linden]

Yes his name is Roger Home

[fierce arch]

And House's plan to digitize himself never happened because he didn't get cold fusion.

[foggy haven]

Bob Dwelling

[forest raptor]

atleast until the finale perchance

[slow wadi]

When does ep 6 come out?

[fickle dragon]

On the 21st

[slow wadi]

Are u fricking kidding me I gotta suffer 3 more days

[fading plover]

same day same time every week

[slow wadi]

Tbh I haven't even kept up I usually just see it's out and watch it. But I've been fiending all of a sudden

[midnight kiln]

more and more people keep saying this and i'll be bald when the 21st rolls around because she very well probably isn't in that fucking tube 😭😭

she's probably out frolicking with the Enclave, but then that begs the question of if Janey's still in there or was thawed out too.

but surely the pod would look opened if they weren't in there, right?

or deactivated.

unless there's different people in those pods - replaced and set as some sort of body double.

[slow wadi]

Sorry Coop, your wife's in another Vault in another Tube

IN THE CAPITAL WASTELAND

[slow wadi]

I feel they could do the thing where she never made it but got her daughter into one. Like that seems like something I can see happening

[midnight kiln]

mods, here me out: i think it's funny and it was hard to make

[sly iron]

I am not a mod but i am certain that is qualifying as a meme

[celest raptor]

!mute 470548306309939210 3hr Memes... again. User acknowledges they broke the rules when posting.

[orchid plover]

trashylovesyou muted m.ungin for 3 hours. Reason: Memes... again. User acknowledges they broke the rules when posting.

[topaz fjord]

Do you think the loss of cold fusion was a big deal to the enclave given they seem to have kept quiet

Also the context of the original scene implies wilzig having it was not known

[spark cloud]

I don't know if it's a loss or more of a "don't let the muties get a hold of our tech"

[glacial adder]

ngl lucy luck is carrying her hard

like does she need to be such a fucking know it all like all the time?

[crimson hornet]

I guess they put out a bounty for it but it's weird they've done fuck all else so far

[topaz fjord]

The scene where its found makes me doubt that the enclave knew wilzig had it

[fierce arch]

No, they definitely knew. It wouldn't make sense otherwise.

They have the schematics and resources to make Cold fusion but don't realize Wilzig had it? lol
Odds are they instructed him to work on it in the first place - and didn't realize he stole it until after which is where the bounty comes into play. It wouldn't make sense that the Commonwealth finds out, either if the Enclave didn't say anything. Cause it comes from the North East, not the West.

[outer lake]

thats part of her charm of being a vault dweller, she was raised to believe that she and her people were the true last hope for humanity after the bombs dropped and everything has settled

also she used to be a school teacher so

[topaz fjord]

When he get into it with his supervisor the guy stares at cold fusion that starts the fight not dogmeats presence so as presented it seems wilzig did something with cold fusion the other guy noticed that was the issue

[glacial adder]

im too used to vault dwellers being mute psychopaths

or sarcastic assholes

[topaz fjord]

The enclave as shown never seemed bothered by wilzig having dogmeat as he walks by like 5 guys whilst carrying the pup

At least thats i interpret those scenes

[fierce arch]

Yes because he falisfied the information.

He changes the weight.

To keep Dogmeat from dying.

[midnight kiln]

what were the Enclave doing with creating dogs, exactly?

[fierce arch]

Same thing they did with Deathclaws in FO3.

The enclave is known to experiment with animals, for mass control and warfare - the same thing they did with Deathclaws pre-war. They want animals or creatures to assist on the frontlines with their soliders.

[spark cloud]

Obviously they were trying to merge dogs and cold fusion

[midnight kiln]

wtf

[fierce arch]

He points to cold fusion because it's MISSING. I imagine when Wilzig's supervisor turned up dead and he escaped they put out the bounty? This is common sense to me. I rewatched the whole Enclave scene just now.

[midnight kiln]

what would cold fusion do to a dog?

[fierce arch]

Wilzig had implanted it into his skull before his supervisor walks in, the supervisor notices it's gone, begins to accuse him - a confrontation breaks out, and Dogmeat intervenes. I imagine when Wilzig escapes, by that time they've discovered the supervisors body????

[fierce arch]

He's memeing. lol

[midnight kiln]

oh

[fierce arch]

Yeah no, I don't understand where the line of thought comes from, trying to say that the Enclave doesn't notice the Cold Fusion, or that Wilzig had it. Rather the Enclave scenes show they noticed immediately which is what lead to Wilzig escaping so abruptly.

[midnight kiln]

and somehow managing not to get hit by all those turrets 😭

[fierce arch]

It's literally not in there, and the supervisor goes to investigate it, and Wilzig stops him

[fierce arch]

Tbf those turrets are fucking ass.

Actually the most lore accurate thing is that they don't hit shit.

[midnight kiln]

THEYRE THE ENCLAVE WHY WOILD THEY INVEST IN SHIT TURRETS WHEN THEY HAVE COLD FUSION???????????

[teal abyss]

What if I’m not the house!?

[fierce arch]

I imagine the cold fusion resources were leftover, or super rare that they somehow procured overtime. 200+ years, is a long time for that facility to be running, and active.

[midnight kiln]

good point, but i expected better from a bunch of patriotic tech dudes - considering that's their whole brand.

then again they've been bombed like four times or something now so 😭

i'll cut them some slack

[fierce arch]

I imagine it's a multi-layered reasoning as to why it took them so long to get cold fusion, between the constant setbacks the enclave has had in general, could be lack of intelligent scientists needed to actually construct it or understand the schematics, could be resources took a long time to procure, could be that certain things needed to be in place, i have no idea. lol

[topaz fjord]

That bit makes more sense but seen some saying its dogmeat the supervisor reacts to who by that time is a healthy weight

[fierce arch]

Oh, no. Rewatching it back it looks like he noticed Dogmeat second, it's more like, "So where's the Cold fusion... what's that? why do you have a dog, too?" sort of deal. I think the supervisor, at least how the scene reads to me is that, he saw both cold fusion missing, and then dogmeat, then focused on cold fusion cause that was more pressing.

[midnight kiln]

simple answer: plot device

[topaz fjord]

Was dogmeat a big deal given how many people wilzig walks past with dogmeat earlier including a guard who sees the dog and lets him pass

[fierce arch]

For a PERSONAL pet, yeah, it's also because Wilzig was hiding dogmeat when the supervisor found him.

Which is why the Supervisor said, "What's that?" Because it looks sus, no matter what.

[topaz fjord]

Is he hiding him that could just be a comfy alcove he found for his dog, i know mine liked their own little den

[fierce arch]

Yes, but to the Enclave, that's probably not only not protocol, but it looks suspicious. Because the hiding spot for Dogmeat looks really, really sus and out of place in the labroom Wilzig has. lol

[midnight kiln]

he looks like one of those CPR dummies in that shot lmao

[fierce arch]

I don't disagree, that it's probably comfy. But the Enclave probably is gonna side eye that behavior.

Cause the other question to have to ask is why tf is Wilzig then, the only person with a personal pet that we see. All the other dogs are supposed to be getting trained, manipulated, and tested on.

Wilzig having Dogmeat in his own labroom looks sus regardless.

[midnight kiln]

i'm assuming Wilzig kept Dogmeat to help protect him when he made his eventual escape with cold fusion - and or as a personal companion. if he did any experiments on Dogmeat, i cannot recall.

[fierce arch]

personal companion, he falisfied information to save Dogmeat.

And then tucked Dogmeat away, it looks bad no matter what, though from the Enclave's perspective.

[topaz fjord]

True but dogmeat was still on the books as it were

[foggy haven]

He simply felt bad for the dog because he didn't want it to be incinerated

[sick tendon]

@foggy havenremoved your post for #rules 2

[foggy haven]

Oh my bad

[fierce arch]

Yes but only Wilzig knew that was dogmeat, i doubt the supervisor did. To the supervisor I'm pretty sure he just thought he had a suspicious dog tucked away in the corner of his lab.

[midnight kiln]

he saved Dogmeat from being incinerated, so technically Dogmeat would've automatically been logged as "exposed"? if he had to manually log that, i don't remember 😭

*DISPOSED

[topaz fjord]

No he lies about the weight says 10 instead of 9 pounds

[midnight kiln]

ohhhhh

[fierce arch]

He falsified Dogmeat's weight to keep her from getting killed. Then snuck her off into his own labroom.

He still trains her, i imagine and logs her progress. But I have to imagine it goes against Enclave protocol to keep pets, or things of that nature outside of the controlled environments.

[midnight kiln]

i mean, it's the Enclave. emotional connection and support ain't exactly their forte 😭

[topaz fjord]

He did that some time later since she is bigger ifrc

[fierce arch]

Yeah, that's kind of my point.

[fierce arch]

Yes, but in that same sequence of scenes, we're shown Wilzig stuffing dogmeat into the back corner and covering her up.

[midnight kiln]

especially if it's anything but another god-loving, American soil kissing human being 😭

[fierce arch]

So that she's not found.

[topaz fjord]

But by the time he moves her to his lab she is like 8 weeks full pup size

[midnight kiln]

yuh

[fierce arch]

yes, which is what I'm saying. He snuck dogmeat off and out of the experiment room. lol

[midnight kiln]

they be cloning or something idk

[fierce arch]

If it was okay to have a pet, he wouldn't need to sneak around, or hide her.

He probably monitored her progress through the experiment, and chose an opportunity to pull her out, and raise her himself.

because someone else picks up Dogmeat, and is taking her to get chipped, and a collar put on, and Wilzig intervenes

and then no one looks at him, or notices he's pulling the dog out of the room.

After she's in his lab, it jumps to her being almost fully grown pretty much. So she had been hidden in his lab for some time.

Cause he has her tucked behind his lab counters and gigantic, obnoxious chalkboard.

[midnight kiln]

time skip magic

[shy apex]

It’s actually average sized

[fierce arch]

Idk if i was someone's supervisor and I walked in and saw a dog in a hole like this, where they're clearly not supposed to be - I'd have the same reaction.

[shy apex]

Aww she has a teddy

[midnight kiln]

-# that's what she said

-# sorry

[topaz fiber]

God I hate YouTube videos on the fallout show made by people who only watched the show "FEV finally explained! FEV finally revealed what it is?!" We've known what it was since it was introduced in fo1 lol

[topaz fjord]

Are the dog collars the same control chips hanks using

[shy apex]

It was introduced in 1

[topaz fiber]

True I was thinking of enclave in 2

[shy apex]

It’s legit the main part of the story

[fierce arch]

It looks like it, at least to me.

Do you want me to grab the comparison? @topaz fjord

[shy apex]

It’s funny seeing videos that clearly havnt played the games because as early as 3 fev was clearly established as soemthing vault tec had easy access to and was experimenting with

[topaz fiber]

Yea it's brain rot especially the short clips, they're even worse

[midnight kiln]

there's been so many click bait videos on the show with titles like: "Steph Harper has a Secret!" and it's just regurgitating everything the show has already told us + what many people are already theorising

[fierce arch]

It's eeriely structured the same. It, to me, looks like it was just retrofitted to fit on a collar.

[shy apex]

We’ve known since 2 that vault tec was literally just the forward facing corporation used to front enclave stuff, same with Poseidon energy

[topaz fjord]

The dog ones look more humane

[fierce arch]

yes

[topaz fiber]

Yea obviously not everyone in vault tec is enclave but the high executives would almost all be

[fierce arch]

but i imagine that would be after testing, no? probably more effective for dogs to have it on a collar

[shy apex]

Barb almost certainly is

[topaz fiber]

What

[midnight kiln]

what

[shy apex]

Sorry I had a stroke

[topaz fiber]

Jesus

[midnight kiln]

but yeah she 100% is

[topaz fjord]

Except hugo

[fierce arch]

WestTek, too for military related stuff

[fierce arch]

Yeah, Hugo Stolz's is independent. Surprisingly.

For all the fucked shit he did and orchestrated.

[shy apex]

Though I think it’s more akin to all the massive corpos we know are fucked up beyond belief have had enclave reps put in

Not that they were started specifically by the enclave, more that they’ve been coopted by

[fierce arch]

Enclave probably had plants in almost every American company

[midnight kiln]

they really just dug their fingers into everyone's ass cracks huh

[shy apex]

I mean it stayed pretty much under wraps til the day of the nukes, there was obviously pretty good hiding of any links

[fierce arch]

This was the impressive bit. Fucked as they are, the fact they managed to conceal themselves so well pre-war was super interesting to me.

But I mean, cat outta the bag post-war. Lol

[shy apex]

I mean it helps when they are just the government.

[midnight kiln]

the government being corrupt?? :0 that's craaazzzyyy

[shy apex]

It was essentially just a bunch of CEOs high up cabinet members and select lower government employees

[topaz fjord]

I think that helps that he is just a prominent outside investor

[shy apex]

If anyone got sus it just looks like the government doing what it does, getting its fingers in weapons development

[topaz fjord]

Interestingly posiedon energy is the company we find the least about

[fierce arch]

I can't believe the fucking assistant CEO got kidnapped by Zetans man...

[topaz fjord]

We find robco , nuka cola lore, west tek etc but posiedon very little

[shy apex]

Presumably Coca Cola is or was prominent like irl

Given nuka cola is less than 2 decades old I Wonder how it took such prominence to the point we don’t even hear about coke

[fierce arch]

Yeah Nuka Cola was fucking gigantic, and also turned quasi weapons manufacturers

[crimson hornet]

It'd have to be as it was popular pre divergence

[midnight kiln]

y'all think Nuka Cola did a Coca Cola and put the equivalent of cocaine in their drinks

[crimson hornet]

Nuka Cola doesn't appear until like 2040

[shy apex]

I know irl it’s cus including Coca Cola is a major lawsuit even back in the mid 90z. But still

[fierce arch]

They put cancer in the drinks

[midnight kiln]

D:

[topaz fjord]

But given posiedons links to the enclave its very sparsly touched on

[shy apex]

Seems like Coke and all its smaller brands are completely out of the picture by the 21st century

[fierce arch]

I can't remember what element they used that caused Bone Cancer, but yeah they were wild with it.

[topaz fjord]

Strontium 90 is in quantum

[shy apex]

Quantum is just straight up caesium isn’t it

[crimson hornet]

It's got a radioactive isotope in it yeah

[shy apex]

Oh strontium yeah

[midnight kiln]

D: ?????

[shy apex]

Genuinely idk what they were thinking there , killing your customers is one way to get long term customers

[crimson hornet]

It's ok they tested it on people and it's perfectly safe

ok sure a few dozen died first

[topaz fjord]

Nuka cola is wild

[crimson hornet]

But it's totally safe™

[shy apex]

I mean it was only rolled out like the month of the nukes and wasn’t really common yet but still

[fierce arch]

this, yeah i forgot the element

[plush owl]

The food that’s been irradiated to hell and back and pumped full of preservatives are totally safe as well.

[shy apex]

I do kinda hope we get some lore on how coke and its smaller brands are just completely gone by the nukes.

[topaz fjord]

Does anyone want more lore on posideon energy

[shy apex]

Can’t wait for the legate armour to come to f76

[plush owl]

We probably won’t. That costs money for a license, and potentially makes Coke and such look bad.

[shy apex]

Yeah I mean god forbid the mega corp look bad in fallout

[midnight kiln]

yeah, like a mega corporation doesn't already have a plethora of skeletons in the closet.

[fierce arch]

all the legion and ncr stuff coming.

[topaz fjord]

Vault tec litterally

[shy apex]

If anything it would look better that Coke didn’t buy out to the nuclear propo and start using nuclear waste in its drinks

[dawn dust]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1444940343329161346/1462585322465525843/Screenshot_20260118-062026.jpg?ex=696f62fa&is=696e117a&hm=aed5ae84ca9535921fa96235e7caffe62b0c2b54a9d499a979bfe8303ab99b0d&

[fierce arch]

Drop the PA Pic from the episode/trailer

[fierce arch]

[plush owl]

What are you talking about? Coke is totally family friendly.
Just ignore the dead bodies and other things. Trust me, bros!

[shy apex]

Will admit, the more I look at it the more that pa design is kinda ass

But it might be that the other ones in the show have been so good looking

It kinda feels excessively edgy

[fierce arch]

At least to me the 76 version doesn't look AS salvaged as the one in the sbow.

[sly iron]

I am hearing power armor and i am summoned

[fierce arch]

The expert himself

[sly iron]

Ah yes
The guy who knows power armor and the other 60% of stuff he is saying is assumption

[fierce arch]

LMAO.

[sly iron]

I am saying cause you pinged me while i was watching ep 4 over pa lore

[fierce arch]

That was mostly because of our discussion earlier in the day. You and @forest raptor actively know PA lore better than I. 😆

[sly iron]

Because you stated that bos reverse engineered and i know i was the one who said it
However it was never confirmed how the BoS got so much T-60
The reason i am stating reverse engineer is because how similar T-45 and T-60 are since the BoS had a lot of T-60 and the T-60 is basically an upgrade to T-45
I wouldnt be suprised if west tek made a design where they upgrade the T-45 to T-60
This is how they also do it in real life with military jets being the most important one

[fierce arch]

Oh I know, I was just repeating what you said, atp cause I had no idea. lol

[sly iron]

They would just upgrade the older jets to match the newer jets as its more cost effective so upgrading T-45 to T-60 in pre-war would be cost effective instead of just making new T-60

This is honestly such a better explanation of what i give because bos just finding a crap ton of T-60 somewhere in the capital wasteland is possibily the most stupid thing ive heard because it just stupid

Cause you're telling me 200 years, no one has ever bothered to accuire these t-60, and why is it specifically bos who has to have it, why not other factions
I accept the logic of either the T-60 is being made by the BoS or they managed to find a way to upgrade T-45 to T-60 and that became their main focus, explaining why the bos in fo4 only has T--60

[fierce arch]

You mean like they did with T45? 👁️👄👁️

[pulsar lake]

T45 was shite, T60 is basically the upgraded production line of it, if anything.

T45 is the first mass production model, it obviously wasnt good enough so they made the T51B (high end) + T60 (better than the T45) due to the losses, etc.

[sly iron]

Yeah pretty much
Thats what i love about the last episode so much
They actually shows how bad T-45 was
We seen how amazing the T-60 is
and we realise why cooper probably hates power armor or hates the T-45 so much
The T-45 was just shit
It was good but clearly had so many flaws

[pulsar lake]

we also saw them working on an upgrade to the T60, the T65 that never made it into mass production

and so on.

the only faction that still produced power armors post-war was the enclave ,who went with the X01 (piece of shit), to the APA, to the APA MK2/Black devil/tesla + Hellfire

[shy apex]

That was specifically for the secret service

[sly iron]

Ive always ignored T-65
Its specifcially 76 lore and while i do know that its an upgrade
I dont feel like mention power armor exclusive to one game and thats it
I always mention the main power armor being 45, 51 and 60
There is obviously x-01, etc but those 3 i mention are the main stable power armor

[fierce arch]

Yes but it was because it didn't make mass production line iirc.

[pulsar lake]

and then some bangled together custom scrap ones, like the raider power armors which are just pieces of metal welded onto the frame, etc.

[shy apex]

Which is funny cus it would be neither secret nor serviceable

[pulsar lake]

you shouldnt, its part of power armor lore as much as that matters, lol

[shy apex]

If we just assume that in the actual canon no one but the secret service gets the plans for t65 and the x-01 doesn’t get made by wastelanders it works better

[sly iron]

Well tbf
As mando said
T-65 is specifically for secret service only
Its not exactly the major power armor i have to mention when discussion the show

[shy apex]

We just get it because it’s a game

[pulsar lake]

what i was referring to was that the T45 is the grandfather of power armor

[sly iron]

I dont expect the show to show us the T-65
I expect them to show T-45, T-51, T-60 and obviously whatever the enclave armor is

[shy apex]

It’s probably more likely that the rare prototype power armours don’t ever get made by wastelanders.

But if they didn’t give us shiney new ones every game we’d get annoyed

[sly iron]

A very important power armor as it helped the US in the alaska war
However, there is no denying that it was respectfully not the best due to being rushed and having many desgin flaws
Which were all fixed with the newer power armors

[shy apex]

Evidently not all as per the show >:)

Wonder if we will see how coop knows about the chestplate flaw, since it wasn’t used in the Alaska scene in ep 4

[long hemlock]

I like the idea of the Ghoul throwing away his coat and rocking his old sheriff outfit

[fierce arch]

Yes but it should be acknowledged only for the fact that it falls in line with a lot of 76's lore on expanding PA's especially their civilian & commercial usages.

Like you are correct, we won't see it in the show, but it still should be acknowledged in general.

[sly iron]

Hmm
Fair enough

[topaz fjord]

I always assumed they found the t-45 and upgraded it into the 60

[fierce arch]

I think most of us did, or found the schematics to it and upgraded t45 to t60 that way. It makes the most sense.

[sly iron]

I subscribe to the belief that they found T-60
Reverse engineered it
And upgrade their T-45 to the T-60

[topaz fjord]

Its makes sense the t45s becoming t-60 especially with the same flaw, one you would assume got fixed later

[pulsar lake]

i dont either, i was referring to it being a production line, lol

[sly iron]

Yeah but isnt the T-65 exclusive to secret service?

[balmy drum]

It kinda looks like the deathclaw design from fallout tactics to me

[orchid crow]

as a t51 enjoyer I feel personally offended by the lack of it's inclusion, especial so we could have two power armors that look so similar

[topaz fjord]

Stinks don’t it

[worthy solar]

Yeah, they'd be good to use by loyalist West Coast chapters to contrast Quintus's crew using T-60.

[orchid crow]

This was my thought, I'd love to see something like that

[fading plover]

need a datamine image like this but the NCR armor that got datamined

[orchid crow]

I'm a show enjoyer, but this screamed like, insane levels of nostalgia bait for me, still not really a fan

[fading plover]

how is that nostalgia bait

[topaz fjord]

Never realised till now how redundant using a collar like that on a dog is, dogs are easily trainable

[fierce arch]

They don't want them trainable, they want them completely and utterly obedient beyond a shadow of a doubt.

You're applying logic with a faction that doesn't apply it in a moral sense. They want ZERO room for the animal/creature to rebel or disobey.

[topaz fjord]

Which i would be fine with on any other animal

[fierce arch]

You can train dogs, but there's always the possibility they forego it. It's not 100% full-proof.
The Enclave is probably aiming to eliminate it. If I had to assume.

[topaz fjord]

I wonder if dogmeat was wilzigs private control (for him to compare a normally raised dog against the others)

[unborn sundial]

Imagine they use the Institute instead of the Enclave

[topaz fjord]

Why those fools have one solution

[inner marten]

I think it’s only nostalgia bait if you place a unusual amount of nostalgia on the ranger armor

[fierce arch]

I don't think it was that deep??? He probably just didn't want Dogmeat to be killed off.

That was the whole point of him not liking the fact they got incinerated.

[topaz fjord]

True but shrug its what i would do as a scientist if i had the one unchipped dog i was raising out of curiosity

[fierce arch]

I agree if it was curiousity however, in wilzig's case i don't think it was curiousity. It looks genuinely more like companionship/saving an animal at least to me based on how he treated her.

[topaz fjord]

No i mean since i was excerising her anyways on a treadmill i would be curious to see how she compared

[fierce arch]

I know, i think that was more of Wilzig just making sure she's healthy. Not because he was continuing with the experiment. If you were a proper scientist, and not disillusioned with the Enclave like he became - I believe they would do what you're suggesting, or rather. Idk if they'd even be in that situation to begin with. lmao
I understand your thought process - it's just more so Wilzig evidently stopped believing in the experiment or being curious, or following the data given he was planning on betraying the Enclave for a while. You can argue that he turned over a new leaf during his time with them.

[topaz fjord]

True but i would be happy knowing i could beat the uber dogs on paper with my runt

[narrow phoenix]

oh no, I definitely think they're still fighting, I was thinking of the Commonwealth BoS rearing it's ugly head, but you are correct, it would take probably a...hrmm..I guess 1-2 weeks for the suspicion to rise, and thus another week or so for them to finally get back to Vegas.

yeah, we've seen what they do to the other pups (which is insane IMO), so I'm not surprised Wilzig snapped out of it.

like I get it, they're trying to breed super dogs, but c'mon.

there's a reason people feared Denver before the Legion tamed it.

[topaz fjord]

Honestly that maybe a way to introduce the enclave just a scene of them sweeping area 51 searching for cold fusion

It would be cruel if hank does all this to learn he is actually late to the party

[worthy solar]

How so?

[topaz fjord]

The enclaves already got it up to their needs

[worthy solar]

And knowing the Enclave, maybe they'd cut him loose or dispose of a loose end like him once his usefulness is at an end.

[topaz fjord]

Like what if they perfected it from the doggos

[worthy solar]

Or if even they were like 'eeeyup, this shit's too unreliable outside of doggos' and kiboshed it at some point.

[ebon geyser]

hello

do yall think the ghoul will die?

or will ge regenmaxx

[topaz fjord]

Only if walton quits

[ebon geyser]

wat

i meant given what happenedi n episode 5..

[topaz fjord]

He will live somehow

[ebon geyser]

kk

i figured. I was starting to like him

I have many problems with this season. Not to be so negative. but he is one of the saving graces.

[topaz fjord]

So far i have had no issues

[ebon geyser]

Season one was great. But this season I saw a ton of mandalorian style "Side quests" that totally derail the plot. Like lucy and the ghoul weren't on path to finding their dad until episode 4 or 5 because the first three were spent going on side quest with the legion or whatever. I just don't think that works well for tv in my opinion... shrug shrug

[topaz fjord]

They weren’t side quests more unitended consequences

[sleek socket]

How was it a side quest if it was intended to mold the character?

[ebon geyser]

Same can be said about the mandalorian tv show, unintended consequences, which I think works well in books and games but in tv shows and movies it feels like side quests because the narrative is so restricted

[topaz fjord]

Also if we were cutting plots seemingly not linked well max would be out

[ebon geyser]

@sleek socket side quests can still mold characters. They can still "level you up". It just detracts from the story , which i don't like. They c an mold the character somehow else.

[sleek socket]

Lucy going off to the legion is fundamental, it shows her just how screwed the world really is, and it challenges and ultimately defeats her nice behavior. Which is why shes currently on the drug type of kick now

[ebon geyser]

I don't mind MAx's plot as I'm hoping they do a game of thrones thing where they're eventually linked back up again as they were in season 1

[sleek socket]

And I suspect in this next episode shes going off the rails, because her core philosophy shes known all her life was proven wrong

[ebon geyser]

@sleek socket not saying its not important she sees that, but the method of how she got there was a total side quest

[sleek socket]

It didnt detract from the story tho, it set up the story

They are definitely coming back for the ghoul, we know Kevin is coming back

[ebon geyser]

season 1 was the set up for the season 2 story... it should not be a side quest.

this is like what they do for the mandalorian. Oh poo got to fuel up in this planet. Yes lots of things happen and characters develop, but its like... okay, why couldn't we character devleop while approaching the narrative? whe did we have to veer off narrative to develop them?

[sleek socket]

The end of the season is defo gonna have the legion chasing after them, along with the BOS

[ebon geyser]

I'd love to see more legion

[sleek socket]

But this isnt that

[ebon geyser]

it definitely is

[sleek socket]

We arent seeing the legion for no reason at all, we are definitely gonna get more legion

[ebon geyser]

Again, like mandalorian. We aren't seeing the character from the refueling planet for no reason, they eventually loop around, but the way we were introduced to them was cheap. the introduction shgould have been integral to the narrative, not as a side quest consequence

[sleek socket]

A lot of stuff would be cut if we did that. The show doesnt follow very typical format, it bounces a lot from place to place. Which feels very fallout.

[sleek socket]

If they loop around into the main story, its not a side quest

I mean i also just dont think it was a side quest, it developed the main clashing of ideals between lucy and the ghoul

And again, broke her down ultimately. Id say thats pretty important

[ebon geyser]

I get what you mean, but I don’t think “loops back later” = “not a sidequest.” For me it’s about how it feels the main plot momentum stops, we go do a mostly self-contained task, then later the show retroactively goes “actually that mattered.” It can still be a sidequest and important to the story. It can still be a side quest and develop characters. So no purpose in pointing out that the side quest had some good consequences when the critique is not on the consequences but rather how those consequences are introduced. Thats how the mandalorian is structured, and something I hate. But other shows like house of the dragon and season 1 of fall out are not, which I prefer

[worthy solar]

Half-expect Lucy to honestly overcorrect a little for her original goofball naivety routine and instead go full murderhobo for a bit before finding some equilibrium.

[muted shale]

Average Courier 🥀

[ebon geyser]

i mean even in video games, side quests have massive consequences to a players xp, loot, even the story and surrounding world. but that doens't make it any less of a side quest...

[worthy solar]

I mean, her original strategy hasn't worked all that well, might as well give the Ghoul's way a try for a bit, see if that works.

[muted shale]

I HAVE A CONSPIRACY THEORY WHAT IF FRANK MCLEAN ISNT LUCYS REAL FATHER AND ITS ACTUALLY THE COURIER???

TRUST ME IM SO SIGMA

[atomic garden]

Wrong

[muted shale]

No.

[atomic garden]

Hank is the courier

[muted shale]

Ive never heared a worse opinion

[ebon geyser]

barv is the courier

[worthy solar]

I'd sooner expect the Ghoul to be the Courier.

[ebon geyser]

do we know if they'll address if Mr house is dead or alive?? I haven't played through all of NV but i do know that you have the option to keep him alive or kill him

[topaz fjord]

Tbh i like exploring the wasteland its my favourite part of the games

[ebon geyser]

mine too. but when i see it on tv shows and movies when the plot is much more limited i cwinge

[inner marten]

He only lives in his ending

[ebon geyser]

wat

i'm dumb idk wym 🙁

[inner marten]

NCR, legion, and independent endings all lead to him dying

[ebon geyser]

huh... i see. so its likely he's dead

[inner marten]

I actually think his ending is most likely

[topaz fjord]

There is footage of him and the ghoul

[ebon geyser]

see i'm just confused

[topaz fjord]

Why house likely won but the other sides kept fighting

[ebon geyser]

also my other question is, do we th ink the writers planned for the ghoul's wife and daughter to come back alive? I feel like they originally planned to have them killed because what do you mean the daughter is in a cryo chamber yet the bombs dropped like 30 miles away from them?

[inner marten]

House wining doesn’t end the legion v NCR war

[inner marten]

Fallout has rad away

[ebon geyser]

so i'm guessing they were far enough not to evaporate, far enough not to be engulfed in flames, or far enough not to be flung across the city

i mean my same question comes with Max then too. The nuke was a 2 minute jog from his house yet he somehow didn't get evaporated or melt in the metal fridge?

[worthy solar]

Or so much as get a few scratches even.

[atomic garden]

assuming it isn't his body double

[ebon geyser]

fr. bro wasn't even crying. his fridge was standinog up straight too

[topaz fjord]

That might be a fallout 4 reference just ignore that one

[ebon geyser]

but even in fallout 4 wasn't the boy a GHOUL?

max was like totally unharmed and was a 2 minute jog from the nuke lol

i'm looking too much into it sorry :p

[worthy solar]

How long was Maximus even in that fridge?

[atomic garden]

I'd guess a few days maybe

[topaz fiber]

I saw a video and it got me thinking

The ghoul is going to get helped off the pole by the super mutant we hear talking in the trailer after he fails to pull himself up it

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DRAILPlDx29/?igsh=MWY1OGZhNmtza3BscQ==

civilfallout

MY BOY?! New trailer dropped ❤️

We do more than just this, check out the rest of Civil on IG, or see our links in bio including our Discord, YouTube, and Twitch!
taplink.cc/civilgroup?from=qr

#fallout #falloutmemes #falloutonprime #fblifestyle #civilfallout #digitalcreator

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This is what made me think this if this link worked right

I don't think it's Marcus but maybe, it sounds like Ron perlman speaking with some voice modulator

[carmine bay]

Yeah I highly doubt it’s Marcus

The VA for him is still alive, no reason I’m aware of they couldn’t just use him

There’s other super mutants in the Mojave

[long hemlock]

Likely a Super Mutant since they're building to that with the mentions of F.E.V. If it's a character Cooper already knows as a Super Mutant only one I can think would be Charlie

[sleek socket]

theory house isnt there because he went to space

[solemn geyser]

it would make some sense the Enclave would kidnap House for tech but thats not rlly gonna happen lol

[fading plover]

wha. what.

[oblique tulip]

[inner marten]

People think that what we see on screen are the only things that happen

[fading plover]

honestly

people thinking the show is set like a day after fnv the game, but everything is destroyed? was myt choice for nothing?????

[inner marten]

Wait you are telling me the two factions who were greatly struggling and everyone says will collapse finally collapsed?

[fading plover]

what????

[inner marten]

NCR needed the dam to not collapse(and needed to not get nuked) and everyone says legion will collapse if ceaser dies

[fading plover]

[inner marten]

And the kings are barely a footnote

[sick tendon]

Newest of Vegases - 2281
TV Show start - 2296, 15 years later.

[livid dune]

Brothers. I'm a couple glass of wine in. But could you all listen to me for a sec?

[fading plover]

some people refuses to read

[sick tendon]

to be fair, fallout community is just like that

[fading plover]

well not listen but i can read

[livid dune]

Lol u got me. But anyways, if the BoS ending is Canon, that means that the good guy route for the Sole survivor is the most plausible so it's very possible that danse is alive and after some years Maxson got softer with wastelanders and some synths, as the sole survivor was more willing to save Danse and show Maxson errors to him. So, do y'all think that if maxson makes an appearance, will he be more mature and a soft guy?

[fading plover]

uh no

[foggy haven]

Commonwealth BoS wanted to kill ghoul children on sight

[livid dune]

Disagreement between ranks are very common

[foggy haven]

This was the ambassador guy

[livid dune]

A great asshole lol. I still think that Maxson will be a better guy and I hope danse is still alive

[foggy haven]

The safe assumption is that if a character can die they probably did

Besides Xander representing the Commonwealth for the audience shows us they're still pretty bad

[livid dune]

That's fair asf

[narrow phoenix]

Back and yeah, it is most likely a House Ending. Such an ending doesn't necessarily end the war, just secures power to the Strip, which...by the looks of it, didn't end well...

[carmine bay]

Maxson will probably be pragmatic but still wholly xenophobic if he appears in the show, at least I’d hope so

Commonwealth chapter shouldn’t be bumbling idiots

[narrow phoenix]

Every other chapter seems to devolve into either techno-fetishists raiders, or religious techno-fetishists raiders.

[foggy haven]

It seems the canon ending of NV is a prolonged war between legion and NCR both had moments where they controlled the strip but then House robots won whether that means yes man or more likely just House then (something) happens and radiation and deathclaws take over

My guess is that events of NV story actually take way longer than the game suggests

As it does seem House gets the chip as we see the upgraded securitron

[narrow phoenix]

Well, the show takes place almost 2 decades after new vegas

Years of just about anything could happen, well beyond House's calculations

[foggy haven]

I'm guessing multiple years

Rather than just a few days

[narrow phoenix]

Especially with the Enclave wanting to rid of him as a player on the board

Their whole end goal being to be the sole heirs of America.

[foggy haven]

It is curious that unless I'm mistaken House never mentions the enclave

He seems to be somewhat aware they exist but doesn't know what or who they are

[narrow phoenix]

He talks about them in episode 5 as the "secret player" in this Great Game.

[foggy haven]

Would it's kind of weird because you would think The Enclave would have invited him

Pre war

[narrow phoenix]

Naw, most companies were left in the dark

[foggy haven]

He's not just most companies

[narrow phoenix]

So far the only one that really mingled with them is Vault-Tec

[topaz fjord]

And poseidon energy that one fronted all their stuff

[narrow phoenix]

Ah, yeah

[foggy haven]

Given that the Enclave was a group of the most powerful and smartest people in the American government you would think they would have known how smart house was

[carmine bay]

House wouldn’t be a part of the secret club since he isn’t ideologically aligned with them.

The Enclave are ultra-nationalists

[narrow phoenix]

Yeah, House has his own agenda

[warm linden]

Face value viewers

[foggy haven]

I'm not debating whether he would have joined them or not. I am questioning why they never contacted him

[carmine bay]

Because of the reason I gave

[narrow phoenix]

His agenda being that he wants to be left alone with his own nation, i.e. to leave the planet and travel elsewhere.

[carmine bay]

Making their presence known to people outside of the in group is incredibly risky

They thrive because people don’t know they exist. It’s their trump card.

[narrow phoenix]

^

[foggy haven]

But they did get in contact with others

I'm saying House seems like the number 1 guy they'd want to get along with

[warm linden]

Because The Enclave are (most likely) the ones who launched the nukes imo. House doesn't want nuclear armageddon, if he knew, he'd try to stop them immediately.

[carmine bay]

Yes, vetted American politicians who shared their views. I wouldn’t be shocked if the Enclave were psuedo-monarchal in that their members are often just offspring of older enclave members as well.

[foggy haven]

Because pre war while he was reclusive he was still seen as patriotic

[topaz fjord]

Eckhart to mental levels

[carmine bay]

They don’t need to contact him directly anyways

Just use him like the rest of the corpos through proxies like Vault Tec

[narrow phoenix]

Again, House never wanted nuclear annihilation, he was paranoid about it and set up a missile system to prevent it.

[carmine bay]

Which they tried

[foggy haven]

I really can't see the enclave being responsible for the nukes even though I agree it seems like the story is hinting at that

[carmine bay]

If they are it’s just a retcon imo

But it’s possible. Them having plans can fit into their weird ideology anyways.

[foggy haven]

1. The nukes caught them by surprise
2. They were winning the war already
3. Fallout 2 heavily implies and straight up says China did it

I understand retcons but this would be a bad one

[narrow phoenix]

The enclave most likely didn't do it, but did push China to launch the nukes, what with the discovery of FEV, Deathclaws on their doorstep, and troops invading their homeland.

[warm linden]

Even if they weren't, it's pretty obvious that they're one of the culprits when it comes to escalating the tension and pushing the US to war.

[foggy haven]

The war was inevitable

[narrow phoenix]

I'd launch the nukes if I saw them pushing for my capital and had fucking demons in the streets smashing through buildings like they were made of paper.

[foggy haven]

I think you could argue the deathclaws and f.e.v. was enough to provoke nukes

[carmine bay]

China did nothing wrong

[foggy haven]

[carmine bay]

America is literally satanic in fallout

Would nuke them again for safe measure imo

[narrow phoenix]

I can safely say China is uber fucked. Wiped off the face of the earth in an irradiated crater, and survivors dealing with deathclawa

[foggy haven]

I'm not sure if there even are survivors

China and most of Europe is probably mutant hell

[carmine bay]

The prospect of there being no survivors is a bit contrived

China would have mutants but likely nowhere near as many as the US

They’d have their own bunkers as well

[foggy haven]

There might be ghouls but they didn't have the hundreds of vaults

[carmine bay]

Most of the vaults were shitty experiments that killed their populations

[foggy haven]

Sure but those were just enough

[carmine bay]

Vault Tec doesn’t have a monopoly on the concept of underground bunkers anyways, like I said

China would have some

[foggy haven]

Pretty much all of the non ghoul wastelanders were descendants of vaulties

[carmine bay]

We know the Chinese survived in submarines as well

[foggy haven]

We know of a single submarine

[narrow phoenix]

China didn't have a monoply on massive monstrosities that shrug concrete like the bad case of the fleas.

[fading plover]

there is also some chinese survivors in fo3

[carmine bay]

There’s the Shi and the Fallout 4 submarine

[foggy haven]

I mean in mainland china

[narrow phoenix]

Like I said, they're fucked in their mainland

[fading plover]

this isn't quite true

[carmine bay]

If there were a couple that made it to the US and survived there’d be more in mainland China

Yeah the Hub, Junktown, BoS, most of the southwest, etc weren’t vault descendants

[foggy haven]

I think NA is probably the only continent with sustainable human society post war

[fading plover]

shady sands, jackals, khans and vipers are descendants from vaults, but nothing says people from junktown or hub were from vaults

[oblique tulip]

Allmost everyone from 76 is not from a vault

[carmine bay]

I don’t see why China would be more devastated by nukes than America to the point they couldn’t have survivors

[oblique tulip]

Amceria whould nuke them back ten fold

[carmine bay]

China gave us everything they had

Also had first strike advantage

Nuclear silos are a target of nuclear strikes

[warm linden]

It doesn't really matter. They both lost

[oblique tulip]

Amceria was winning in the long run

[foggy haven]

China was already being pushed back to the mainland

[warm linden]

Yes and people were already up and about in F76 like Responders

[carmine bay]

Idk how America winning the conventional war is relevant

Unless the assumption is they genocided the majority of the local population

Which uh

[warm linden]

It's not surprising since US had a headstart on power armors

[oblique tulip]

China whouldnt know every nuclar silo location

[carmine bay]

Neither would america

My point is everyone let loose everything they feasibly could

[foggy haven]

Deathclaws be like

Either way it was bad enough for them to launch nukes (probably)

[west geode]

I mean yeah America won but at what cost The remnants of pre-war America was enclave an vault tec which don't give a crap about the people yeah they want to rebuild but in their own sick twisted ways

[foggy haven]

Enclave would just have 0 reason to nuke the world

Especially when they were winning

[carmine bay]

The Enclave likely saw nuclear armageddon as inevitable, so they’d rather do it on their own terms.

They would have to know China would press the red button if they pushed hard enough

[narrow phoenix]

They did, for sure. All other nations so far during the timespan before the Great War fell apart, nuking one another or suffering from societal collapse. America wasn't doing too hot until they unlocked the full potential of Nuclear Power.

[carmine bay]

Yeah

[narrow phoenix]

China demanded they give that power and America told them to stuff it, inevitably starting a war, which over time caused strife and rioting in American soil due to shortages of food/exploitation of corporations/Enclave bullshit.

[carmine bay]

Worth noting too that the Enclave had access to Zax supercomputers with incredible predictive power

They would have come to the same conclusion House did

[foggy haven]

We do know the enclave was caught unprepared

[carmine bay]

Yes, this was probably because China launched before they expected them to. Much like what happened to House. doesn’t mean that they didn’t expect them to launch at some point though.

[narrow phoenix]

Yup. House wanted to try to de-escalate as much damage as possible, probably would've had New Vegas in pristine condition if he wasn't off by 24 hours.

Pretty crazy

[topaz fiber]

Saw an interesting comment

Claudia could be enclave since she was only at vault tec for a week but still got into Bud's buds

And honestly could be, seeing how many twists this show been having

[carmine bay]

I was skeptical of her being all goody two shoes

Feel like there’s more there for sure

[warm linden]

Could be but I don't really see the point since Enclave and Vault-tec was already in cahoots

[narrow phoenix]

Yeah, Vault-tec being Enclaves' research department, effectively.

[inner marten]

Doesn’t seem very enclave to cry about puppy

But possible

[topaz fiber]

Emotional manipulation

[inner marten]

Calling your cat puppy is so real

[narrow phoenix]

Lmao

[shy apex]

My dude, rhis is literally show created how can it be nostalgia bait.

[orchid crow]

It a power armor version of ranger armor, I love the show and thinks it's nowhere bear as bad as a lot of people pretend, but that specifically feels like a weird nostalgia ass pull

[shy apex]

So it’s weird, for a country to use its most distinctive helmet as the basis for its own salvaged power armour design ? Idk man this is a weird one

People would be complaining if it wasn’t based off the ranger armour

[topaz fjord]

My thoughts as well

[topaz fjord]

Exactly at least two senior deaths, plus a dozen missing soldiers/officers

[foggy haven]

I'm still convinced that Hank is somehow tied in with the Enclave

[fierce arch]

It's 50/50 for me, i can see it being either way.

[foggy haven]

I don't know who else they could really use to be revealed to be Enclave

[fierce arch]

|| But House getting rid of the Mind control tech pushed me into seeing how it can play out both ways. I still don't see how House works with Hank, if House completely gets rid of the tech Hank is supposed to work on. . . ||

[foggy haven]

Barb would be my guess but she's already vault tech high rank

[topaz fjord]

Barb may still be hanks boss just not as we thought

[carmine bay]

Tbh I wonder if China finding out about FEV was the factor that caused them to launch earlier than the Enclave/House expected in Bethesda canon still.

[foggy haven]

Because if they are going to do an Enclave reveal surely a character will be revealed to be Enclave

[carmine bay]

It would line up

[fierce arch]

Probably.

[foggy haven]

I can see it being the deathclaws

Or both

[carmine bay]

Well they may have found out about FEV via the deathclaws

[worthy solar]

That, coupled with maybe intelligence about America's post-War plans for China maybe influenced them into pushing the button? Might as well die in atomic fire than from the tender mercies of Big MT if you're lucky.

[carmine bay]

Investigated where they came from and found out about FEV research at Mariposa and West Tek

Knowing that they were royally screwed because of this they just decided to press the red button

[topaz fjord]

Do you think pre war they ever tried a curling like virus based off fev

[carmine bay]

I wouldn’t be surprised if they tried to develop a virus that specifically targeted Chinese genetic markers yeah

[worthy solar]

And at that point, China'd be an idiot not to launch their entire arsenal.

[topaz fjord]

My personal theory is the usa put to much pressure on china combined with their spies not making any real gains

[narrow phoenix]

Also interesting that the BoS fully regressed to the point they legit burned down towns like raiders.

RIP Filly.

[topaz fjord]

I do wonder if there is more to that story

For example would ma june recognise if an enclave squad did it

[narrow phoenix]

We do know from comms that they tried to take over, the locals 'fought back' and the bos 'fought' from season 1 comms followed by laughter. Wouldn't be surprising they slaughtered the locals

[topaz fjord]

True but presumably the enclave would also try recover this tech and lets be honest they would burn down a town

[topaz fiber]

The wiki says they burned fili down and took control of that city moldaver powered but idek where they got that info from

[narrow phoenix]

Doesn't seem like they took it over, they just took the cold fusion and left them to rot.

[topaz fjord]

What i am Suprised the enclave has never done is used older more common power armour to frame enemies

[narrow phoenix]

Seems like a common thing, F4 confirms the shutdown on Rivet City.

[carmine bay]

Why would they bother

Everyone knows they’re evil as shit anyways

[topaz fjord]

To stay in the shadows put the blame on the brotherhood

[topaz fiber]

No it doesn't lol

[topaz fjord]

Yup reactor stolen for the prydwen

[oblique tulip]

It dosent

[topaz fiber]

It says they got the reactor from an aircraft carrier, not rivet city itself, besides the area they're in there would be lots of ships around and Danse is from rivet city, think he'd mention if his home got wiped out by the BOS

[narrow phoenix]

Yes it does, they took what was powering rivet city for themselves. There isn't another aircraft carrier out there presentable.

[topaz fiber]

Nope

Not once does the game Fallout 4 say rivet city had it's reactor stolen

[narrow phoenix]

So unless it was on some carrier as an off shoot, it's safe to say the took the power for their own ship.

[topaz fiber]

You can theorize that the aircraft carrier was rivet city but there is literally nothing in the game saying it is the same one

So no, fallout 4 does not confirm them doing that

[topaz fjord]

Its implied but not confirmed

[narrow phoenix]

So you're saying the tradtional BoS that has the outcast with them would NOT take a nuclear fusion reactor by force and tell everyone to eat shit and die? The very same people who would gladly shoot someone in PA when they're surrendering to take it off their dead bodies?

[fierce arch]

Correct, it's never outright stated which aircraft carrier.

[topaz fiber]

You mean Lyons group that were self imposed saviours of humanity

[narrow phoenix]

No no, this is after maxson took over.

[fierce arch]

By that time, Lyons is dead, he dies shortly after the events of FO3.

[topaz fiber]

Arthur may have been the leader but that doesn't suddenly overwrite 20 years of Lyons policies

[topaz fjord]

I am of the opinion it is however

[narrow phoenix]

Maxson, who has the outcast back within them.

[fierce arch]

It does, actually. lol

That's one of the reasons why Maxson became in charge so young.

[oblique tulip]

Maxon whouldent do that

[topaz fiber]

Uh no

[fierce arch]

Because Lyon's policies didn't last.

Yes, actually. It's literally outright stated that Lyons' policies did not work when Maxson was 12 years old.

[topaz fjord]

That and putting down a supermutant uprising combined with no clear command

[narrow phoenix]

Lyon's policies were shot down for the Maxson's approach to the old BoS.

[topaz fiber]

Maxson literally fused Lyons policies with some of the traditional ones the outcasts follow, they did not get rid of Lyons policies

[fierce arch]

Maxson took command of that, he was just super young.

He was like 14, but still, Lyons' policies crumbled after his death, almost immediately.

It's stated in lore, it's just a fact.

[topaz fjord]

I am sure i read somewhere after sarah died there was a bit of squabbling for leadership prior to maxson

[topaz fiber]

Yea maxson got put in charge after multiple elders died in a row because they were ineffective, Arthur got put in because he's blood related to maxsons, then he proved himself

[fierce arch]

Sarah died RIGHT after Lyons.

[fierce arch]

Had nothing to do with blood relation, he proved himself at a young age cause the Lyson' brotherhood was stupid.

[topaz fjord]

Changes nothing about what i said though

[topaz fiber]

Uh no it had everything to do with blood relation

[fierce arch]

Show me where in lore he became Elder because of his blood.

[topaz fiber]

You really think the BOS is putting a 12 year old in charge for their skill lmao, no

[topaz fiber]

Go read the terminals on the prydwen

[topaz fjord]

To be fair maxson was sent to the east coast to get rid of him

[fierce arch]

I have, it doesn't say that.

[narrow phoenix]

Lyon's old policy was to help the people, protect settlements, kill abominations and reclaim tech being secondary. A lot of people left because of those changes, outcast focused on the old traditions which is to reclaim tech as the primary.

[topaz fiber]

Na they sent him there to keep him safe from the western chapters bickering

[fierce arch]

Which is why i know you're making stuff up. It has nothing to do with blood relation. It helped but it was not the reason.

[topaz fiber]

Only one making stuff up is you

[topaz fjord]

Also sarah lyons must have been a late child of owen

[topaz fjord]

Looks at the capital wasteland that was safer

[fierce arch]

Brother, im reading the terminal entries now. It says nothing about blood.

[topaz fiber]

Sure you are

[fierce arch]

https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/The_Prydwen_terminal_entries#Enter_Maxson

Go read, it says nothing about blood. lol

[fierce arch]

I think she was, we never really find out about her Mother, either.

[narrow phoenix]

Jesus in 4 years he took over.

That's ridiculously fast.

[fierce arch]

Yes because it WAS that bad.

[narrow phoenix]

Yeah, no kidding

[fierce arch]

Which is what I mean by Lyons's policies didn't work long term.

The lore points to everything that while I agree, Lyon's was good in terms for the Wastelanders and such, being a humanitarian, from the Brotherhood side, he fucked them over a lot.

[topaz fjord]

How come we never see any of the outcasts leaders among maxsons brotherhood do you think it was a like welcome back kinda deal or more putting down a rebellion kind

[narrow phoenix]

And killed a fucking Deathclaw in just 14? Ya kidding me? Holy shit.

[fierce arch]

No, because it is listed as a huge key point to his success.

[narrow phoenix]

That's insane.

[fierce arch]

I have to imagine they just assimilated themselves into the Brotherhood again, maybe negotiations of bringing them back in was them assuming new ranks, and not retaining the ones they had when they were outcasts.

I imagine once they saw Maxson's performance, and leadership they were like, "Okay, he's not another Owyn."

[topaz fiber]

"But it was his victory at age 15, over the Super Mutant "Shepherd" who was attempting to re-organize the Capital Wasteland's Super Mutants, that elevated him to hero-like status. When word of this feat reached the Elders back on the West Coast, they knew the time had come... Maxson was ready. Ready to lead and, more importantly, to reunite the fragmented Brotherhood of Steel forces on the East Coast." Pretty clearly states the west coast elders were waiting for the right moment to make Arthur the elder, cuz of his bloodline, they sent him to the east to learn and train

[fierce arch]

There is not a single line in there about his bloodline.

[topaz fiber]

Wow, do you need everything pointed out for you

[fierce arch]

That is talking about his feats he did as a TEENAGER.

[topaz fiber]

You are so blind

[narrow phoenix]

I'm sure there's something dark behind that entry. Pushing a literal teenager to run a fucking military group is insane.

[fierce arch]

I agree.

[topaz fiber]

"descendant of the very founder of the Brotherhood of Steel"

[topaz fjord]

Its not entirely impossible that the lost hills group basically saw the issue of the chapters and realised we need a new leader

[topaz fiber]

Tell me again it's not blood related

Blind ass people unable to use reading comprehension

[fierce arch]

It's not because they don't mention his decent in the terminals. Lol

[shy apex]

Pretty sure it was implied the west coast was nearing Civil war

[topaz fiber]

Okay so you just lack basic reading comprehension

[fierce arch]

Probably, I don't disagree.

[fierce arch]

Yeah it was.

[fierce arch]

Bro you headcanon a bunch of stuff and post Ai, I'm not interested in conversing with you further. lol

[topaz fjord]

Like i could see maxson having lost hills backing more than qunitus and his fellow chapter leaders

[topaz fiber]

Okay fake fan

[topaz fiber]

Uh yes let's get this 15 year old kid to lead our military order

[shy apex]

Get sticky handed

[fierce arch]

He would have because he'd need to in order ot become Supreme commander and have the authority placed on him that gave him power over other elders.

[topaz fiber]

Nothing I said was head canon, you're just unable to read when it proves you wrong

[fierce arch]

Like the only one that considered his bloodline was Lost Hills, but Lyons, quite literally didn't. Nor is it every really brought up.

[topaz fiber]

Oh you mean like in fo3 when it gets brought up

[topaz fjord]

Oh i think that may come, basically i reckon after elijah for example the brotherhoods probably been noticing itself splintering and looking for a reason to bring the internal factions to heel

[narrow phoenix]

Either way, this just cements the situation to me that they would in fact take a nuclear fusion plant from people to give themselves an advantage. They had the outcasts within their ranks, a large portion of their group being a such, it wouldn't be surprising that their ideas spread to Maxson. A teenager is incredibly malleable to ideas.

[fierce arch]

I know Magnus brought up the idea that the Lost Hills might've moved, and it's possible. I just dunno where they'd go specifically.

[shy apex]

The found hills obviously

[topaz fjord]

Honestly they may have moved to the prydwen

[shy apex]

The implication from the show is that the lost hills chapter didn’t die out