EPISODE 7

[valid tree]

Alaska maybe?

[rapid wigeon]

Radiation heals ghoul. This was established since Fallout 1

I don’t mind some Mutant somehow has uranium ore with him and Ghoul can heal form it

I’m more concerned on this “bottle caps” currency still a thing after 220 years

[valid tree]

What do you think the currency should be? Made sense in fallout 1, maybe in nv but the others don't make sense

[rapid wigeon]

IDK isn’t in Fallout 3 the only strongest faction BoS? Why don’t they have their own currency

[leaden furnace]

I don’t think the BoS really cares about establishing a currency ngl

[rapid wigeon]

you can argue because BoS in 3 are from California thus they used bottle caps but why still using it?

And after project purity it’s not like BoS were selling Aqua Pura, they’re giving it away for free

[valid tree]

I think the currency would be food or bullets like in metro

It'd be what people need to survive, like the caps were used to pay the water merchants for water

[floral shoal]

the brotherhood isn't a full fledged nation like the NCR or even one like the Legion

they don't really care for trade and stuff or economy

if they can trade a peice of rare tech for caps then cool but otherwise they're also not above taking it by force

[rapid wigeon]

Maxson in 4 seems to care enough about trades, he force local farmers to give him free food or else

[floral shoal]

ehh im not sure if i'd call that proper trading

more like he was forcing a tithe on the locals

[lusty ingot]

Maxon didn't

[misty yoke]

where was it established that it accelerates healing? humans also heal, doesnt mean i wont die with a fist sized wound in my chest.

[rapid wigeon]

If BoS didn’t care about “economy” they wouldn’t need supply from local farmers as he can just exchange supplies with farmers

[frigid summit]

i dont think BOS is overly interested in bureaucracy and admin stuff that much theyre all a military at the end of the day

they care a little but not like the NCR

[lusty ingot]

That was a under the covers misson which maxon had no idea about

[rapid wigeon]

C’mon now

[lusty ingot]

The guy literally says so

[misty yoke]

BOS is seen selling water thru caravans after the main quest in FO3

[floral shoal]

they're basically just a wandering organization of relic hunters theres really no need for them to make their own currency beyond simple bartering and trading

maybe if Maxson decides to start off his own kingdom one day then they probably will

[rapid wigeon]

Lyons proudly stated how he’s giving away water as if he was farming for good karmas. But BoS secretly trade with locals for bottle caps made sense realistically otherwise how else are they going to have bottle caps at all after fallout 3

[merry jolt]

Ravioli ravioli give me the cold fusionoli

[rapid wigeon]

This is just lazy writing
Not only BoS in fallout 4 still has bottle caps and evidently understanding how economy works because BoS weaponry still takes bottle caps
But Maxson “pretending” to not know how BoS got foods despite the fact he “pretending” BoS doesn’t care about established currency

Maybe we should just accepted that Emil and Todd were failing economy 101 in college 💔

[floral shoal]

nah man i recall brotherhood weaponry taking fusion cells and bullets

[last ruin]

Caps are a vibe, the economy isn't real

[wheat lodge]

The divide, the place accidentally nuked by the Courier

[silver falcon]

it was the major trade/caravan route of the NCR to the mojave

[wheat lodge]

Ik, but I have always find it pretty stupid that they pass through death Valley to get there

[silver falcon]

get it? the divide, the divide between east and west

[silver falcon]

yeah idk its pretty weird

[wheat lodge]

Like, when I visited death Valley, I couldn't stay outside for more than like 30 minutes before I felt high levels of dehydration (mind you, the temperature was over 50°C or 122°F for Americans). Considering the nuclear war made global temperature go up, passing through death Valley is illogical

[leaden furnace]

Joshua makes it sound likes it’s close to Death Valley but not quite there

[wheat lodge]

Shady Sands is basically in Death Valley according to the Fallout 1 and 2 maps

It's in the northern part basically

[leaden furnace]

Yeah Shady’s location is all over the place, I don’t think anyone has come to a consensus on where it truly is

[north wharf]

well i know where it is
its very obvious

[leaden furnace]

[wheat lodge]

I honestly think its canon location is the one from Fallout 1 & 2

[leaden furnace]

Fallout 1 & 2 have separate locations

It and Vault 13/15 got moved in 2’s map

The most common answer I’ve seen is Owen’s Valley

[fleet rapids]

😭

[rapid wigeon]

They should’ve made Sandy Sands located in Boneyard in Fallout 1 instead of in middle of desert

[leaden furnace]

Lol

[wheat lodge]

They should have nuked shady sands in the first Fallout game

[leaden furnace]

Very true

[rapid wigeon]

I’m serious tho. I always feel weird about Shady Sands location in Fallout 1

At least Junktown has vague excuse of being a “junk” in middle of desert but Sandy Sands is in middle of nowhere for no particularly reason

[wheat lodge]

Like this the NCR wouldn't have existed

[leaden furnace]

I wouldn’t take the map locations for 1 too seriously, outside of a vaguely confirming that X settlement is north, south, etc from each other. Shady shouldn’t be in the Boneyard, LA has its own stuff going on.

[north wharf]

its in the US

[wheat lodge]

Nah, the reason is Vault 15

[leaden furnace]

Shady is meant to be an independent township far away from the happenings of LA, which is infested with gangs and the Unity. Having it in the midst of all that kind of defeats the point of its existence.

[wheat lodge]

Shady Sands was built by the people of Vault 15 (with their GECK if I recall)

[leaden furnace]

One group of Vault 15 residents yeah

[sterile coral]

Plus, Shady Sands is in a separate state from LA anyway.

[leaden furnace]

The rest split up to create the Khans, Vipers, and Jackals

[north wharf]

what are those names?
Raiders have names?

[sterile coral]

It’s like smashing New York and the District of Columbia together just so NYC and DC are in the same state.

[leaden furnace]

Yes not all raiders in fallout are generic raiders unfortunately

We pray for their return however

[north wharf]

PRAY?!?!

https://tenor.com/view/sodaz-fallout-brotherhood-of-steel-operation-sunburst-gif-9203339257550863180

[leaden furnace]

Indeed

[north wharf]

HERETIC!
ALL RAIDER SHALL DIE

[leaden furnace]

Vipers killed Maxson II
Rip bozo

[north wharf]

idk about bos uselesses
i serve the enclave

[leaden furnace]

Died to tribal aura

[north wharf]

they had plot armor

[wheat lodge]

Same

[wheat lodge]

Fuck the chosen one

(Best Fallout protagonist tho)

[north wharf]

ya mad?

[wheat lodge]

Nah, the chosen one is the best Fallout protagonist

I said what I said. Someone that can take down the Enclave by himself is goated

[timber oyster]

i said that yesterday but it didnt seem like anyone agreed, but it has to be because if Cooper did give it to Richardson, then it would make perfect sense how the Enclave got cold fusion in season 1, and the actor and richardson look the same. idk who else it could be

[wheat lodge]

Richardson from Fallout 2?

Richardson is described as a thin and nervous man in the game

So it can't be him. Maybe it's his father or something

[timber oyster]

his father could make sense too

[real scroll]

Well and like the 4 other companions you can take at the same time

[wheat lodge]

I didn't go in the oil rig with my companions, I didn't want them to die. I did everything by myself like a good boy

[modern orbit]

Cooper is the man who sold the world

[modern orbit]

Marcus canonically blows up the rig with you

[wheat lodge]

Basically, yes

[wheat lodge]

Ik, don't worry, he was just waiting outside

Same thing for Goris

I didn't needed them, I had a Bozar with 10 luck and better criticals

[split terrace]

and bad writting

[lusty ingot]

All protagonists have plot armor

[modern orbit]

Fallout 2 in general has pretty ass writing

[lusty ingot]

Even the devs said the chossen one had plot armor

[modern orbit]

For the main story specifically, the side quests are great

[merry jolt]

Please please please let House bitch about the Courier ruining his plans or some shit next episode

[errant dune]

Omg I just realised why House said Coop ended the world

[merry jolt]

This dumb mf handed Cold Fusion to the US govt 🤦‍♂️

[errant dune]

That's why, he gave Cold Fusion to the Enclave, which probably causes the president to go into his pseudo abdication

[fresh drum]

Why did everyone hate Steph for being Canadian

[scenic cape]

We Annexed Canada 200 years prior

Basically just a lesser American to them

[fresh drum]

Ah it’s kinda funny how they didn’t believe woodys murder until she was Canadian

[scenic cape]

A non American having a place in a American companies vault for Americans is probably a big deal even if it’s just tomato tomatoe to us lmao

[scenic cape]

I mean Chet broke the glasses so it’s more on him

[vapid trellis]

I mean, he had no proof that he was murdered.

[real scroll]

TBF he had no proof. He had her ID

[scenic cape]

Her id was clearly enough for them somehow

[wheat lodge]

"thy strength is matched"

[fresh drum]

Yeah true but they instantly believed she murdered him once she was Canadian

[vapid trellis]

I mean he showed them the ID.

[leaden furnace]

Her ID proves his claim that she’s 200 years old and is hiding info

[merry jolt]

Syrup sucking commies

[scenic cape]

I think my favorite part of the ep was people reacting to the ncr power armor in freeside

[fresh drum]

https://tenor.com/view/burn-gif-5029052212911233363

[wheat lodge]

Canadian AND Catholic

[fresh drum]

Them the second they found out she was Canadian

[leaden furnace]

I almost busted out laughing at that scene

[merry jolt]

I almost expected her to pull out a 10mm and start blasting tbh

Hope we get to see her use the secret Overseer vault exit

[fresh drum]

I feel like she’s gonna open hanks case and there will something she can use against them in it

[scenic cape]

Completely unfreeside like but that armor has serious aura

[wheat lodge]

She killed Woody because he was straight up annoying and always questioning her actions

[merry jolt]

Or it’s the button that opens up the secret stairs underneath the Overseer desk 👀

Or honestly it might just be a GUN

[wheat lodge]

Next episode, I hope we see the FEV experiment

[sudden sand]

She killed woody becuase he would likely have blabbed to the others or tried to get to 33

[fresh drum]

Seems pointless with the whole faff and dragging on to just be a gun and the staircase wouldn’t make sense he was in 33 not in 32

[wheat lodge]

And honestly, fuck Woody, he was a useless character anyway

[sudden sand]

She was fine letting him go thinking he hadn’t heard anything . But the moment he asked what she meant by experiment he sealed his fate

[merry jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/seven-brad-pitt-box-whats-in-the-box-gif-3386206

What’s in the boooooxxxxxxx?!

[wheat lodge]

Steph doesn't deserve the hate

[fresh drum]

I wonder how she killed him probably not by blunt force seeming as his glasses weren’t cracked maybe she has a gun?

[wheat lodge]

I need to stand up for my fellow Canadians

[merry jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/donald-sutherland-pod-people-podpeople-body-gif-10811761

[fresh drum]

She forced chet into a relationship and murdered my silly boy woody

[sudden sand]

She’s a bad person but we know why now

[wheat lodge]

Suffocated him with a pillow or something probably

[fresh drum]

Yeah probably

[sudden sand]

she’s going through post partum while having had her husband be murdered in front of her

[wheat lodge]

We could argue that she isn't a bad person tho.

[vapid trellis]

Killing woody is not bad? please.

[sudden sand]

I think people are simplifying ‘oh she’s just a bitch to him’ down to her just being a bitch when the realty is she’s likely going through traumatic memories and depression

[sterile coral]

Which is fine, so long as that isn't a 'get out of consequences free' card.

[wheat lodge]

Post partum, annexion trauma, suffered from American and religious hate and her husband died

[vapid trellis]

She have been out in vault for 7 years right?

[sudden sand]

She pushed down everything in order to get into the vault and finally did. She found Some level of peace with a potential family. And then it got ripped away from her by AMERICANS. Again

[wheat lodge]

If I was in her situation, I would have done the same. Die or survive is the point here

[vapid trellis]

Vault was going to die anyway

Due to inbreeding

[wheat lodge]

Most likely all gonna become Super mutants next episode, except maybe for Chet and Steph

[sterile coral]

But is the solution really, say, going full Nero Decree and potentially gassing the Tri-Vault with FEV?

[vapid trellis]

Steph is planning to do that

[sudden sand]

I mean we don’t know that

[vapid trellis]

Do we think Betty will be doing that?

[sudden sand]

It’s highly unlikely it is fev in the thing and bud may have been the only one who could have started it

[fresh drum]

Could also become centaurs if FEV is released some vault dwellers could be closely compacted

[sudden sand]

I think it’s more likely she put on an act to threaten Betty into getting the keepsake for her

[wheat lodge]

What if there is actually a timer that started when Norm freed everyone from the cryopods?

[scenic cape]

Yeah she didn’t strike me as just dismissive for no reason, just irritable

[sterile coral]

Wouldn't put it beyond Vault-Tec to be sneaky like that.

[sudden sand]

Also it’s a 50s analogue

Post partum depression prior to like 2010s was completely dismissed

[vapid trellis]

I dont see how that would work since the vault was to wait until everyone on surface die

[sudden sand]

It’s still stigmatized to this day despite us knowing why it happens

[wheat lodge]

I mean, vault Tec has always been exactly like this. Also, don't forget that we now know that Vault Tec was basically working with the Enclave, which has been known for being sneaky

[wheat lodge]

No they don't?

[sudden sand]

You say we now know, but we’ve known that for 30 years lol

[wheat lodge]

I mean, it was inferred, but the first solid proofs were in 76 if I recall

With the White spring bunker

And I honestly think that the one that will launch the experiment is the random guy that went with Norm and the others to the surface

[vapid trellis]

Oops, I mean competitions on the surface

[fresh drum]

The whole head in the vault shit was so creepy I loved it

[wheat lodge]

The tension build up of episode 7 at the end was pretty nice

[olive silo]

Was even said in fallout 2 in the talk with the president

[fresh drum]

Anyone have the trailer for ep 8?

[wheat lodge]

Nope

We just need to wait, 5 days

[sterile coral]

So, would that make the whole 'acquire control of the nuke silos' in 76 that Vault-Tec had 76's overseer do actually something the Enclave ordered?

[fresh drum]

There’s always one at the end of each episode but i don’t get them on mine

[wheat lodge]

No, the AI in the White spring bunker revolted and killed all the staff because of what they were doing if I recall

[sudden sand]

it was gonna destroy modus so he killed them

[wheat lodge]

Yes, that

[errant dune]

My prediction for next episode:

House Exposition Dump
Freeside helps with Deathclaws, word reaches legion about NCR is back (Max) cliffhanger for them marching on Freeside to be resolved in S3

Lucy does something with the mainframe/Hank dies, see how she escapes to the conflict in Freeside

Claudia and Norm escape after learning what the vaults do

Steph escapes Vault 33 by either infecting 31 or 33 or both with FEV

[wheat lodge]

So launching the nukes in 76 is definitely not something the Enclave intended. Anyway, 76 shouldn't be considered fully canon

[sterile coral]

Not launching, just 'getting control' of them.

[west cloud]

some specially made hand cannon, custom made. No idea how he can get the ammo, it looks like a 4-5 shooter.

[wheat lodge]

No no, you are meant to launch at least one nuke for the scorchbeast queen (which is one of the many Enclave project to eradicate wastelanders). Also, this is all part of the main storyline for 76

[errant dune]

76 is also quite far back in the past

[fresh drum]

I love how house is still rage baiting cooper 200 yrs later

[wheat lodge]

And also one of the biggest dogshit Bethesda has ever made. This game retcons so much shit from all the previous entries

[errant dune]

How smug would you be if the guy who called you crazy was dead wrong about everything and put you in this state

[sterile coral]

No doubt got some pointers from the last fella who came to the 38.

[fresh drum]

[sterile coral]

And also potentially proved you right about being the one who ends the world, albeit indirectly.

Dude did just give cold fusion to the Enclave, after all.

[wheat lodge]

But what is the long term Enclave scheme now?

[sterile coral]

Post-War, I assume it's stir up inter-factional drama and infighting to make sure the Wasteland can't square up against them when the time is right for round three.

[wheat lodge]

Hank is probably working for them and trying to build some sort of disposable army with the control chips

So that they can take control of settlements one by one, kill a few and enslave the survivors, and at the end kill all of the slaves so only the Enclave remains

[sterile coral]

Heck, maybe the Enclave had a role in Hank nuking Shady Sands?

Why wouldn't they jump at the chance to weaken one of their top opps?

[fresh drum]

I really don’t think coop will have a happy ending. He probably looks like a monster to his daughter

[wheat lodge]

Hank is probably an Enclave sleeper agent

[sterile coral]

Assuming his daughter is even still in the cryopod, of course.

[wheat lodge]

Coop will probably die just before finding back his family

Which would fit his character. A tragic ending for a tragic character

Lucy will probably get a happy ending, max will probably die tho

[sterile coral]

Doubt it'd be in S2, though.

[wheat lodge]

Exactly, I think they said they were planning for a trilogy back in season 1

Idk if I am more hyped for the Elden ring movie or the next Fallout season

[fresh drum]

Also why’d the BOS burn down Philly

Or whatever it was called there was no reason to do so it’s just a trade town

[inner pollen]

bc it's the BOS 😭

[sterile coral]

Yeah, that shit was something the Enclave'd have done in a heartbeat.

[wheat lodge]

Because the west coast BoS is basically a bunch of Lunatic in the show

[fresh drum]

Hell could’ve even taken over as a sort if outpost

It’s got a solid wall around it guard posts to defend it

[inner pollen]

they don't appear to care, for whatever reason. the main one being: they're the brotherhood; the western brotherhood; the fucking insane cult brotherhood.

[wheat lodge]

West coast BoS is basically a sect full of Lunatics

[inner pollen]

anyone who isn't them and doesn't follows orders blindly is worth nothing and should be killed basically 😭

[fresh drum]

Also I feel like there’s so much shit they gotta close off the finale has to be super long right?

[inner pollen]

afaik they're greenlit for a third season, so it's highly unlikely all the storylines will be finished within a single episode.

but most likely Hank's lil storyline will be finished.

[fresh drum]

Still tho they gotta leave it off at a sturdy point like at the end of s1

[inner pollen]

i have no doubts that they will - most likely revealing that Barb and Janey aren't in those pods, alluding further to the Enclave's presence to our protagonists.

[wheat lodge]

All the main subplots connect to the same shit, the vault in which Hank is

[fresh drum]

Trueee aside from Thaddeus and maximus

[wheat lodge]

Which are kinda just to bring funny stuff to the show

[fresh drum]

I pray they say what he’s becoming in this final episode or at least he mutates some more so we get an idea

[wheat lodge]

Probably something like the Master

[fresh drum]

I hope so

Makes sense since he was injected with a modified FEV

[sullen latch]

"The NCR is just like the Legion"

I didn't know Hank was a New Vegas fan

i.e. illiterate

[fresh drum]

“The Ncr is just like the legion because they make you pay taxes” and that was completely valid

[sullen latch]

Hank would be a Yes Man fan only to implement House's autocracy but even more extreme

[sudden sand]

ok so rewatching the episode the mortars are definitely not something the f76 devs added in themselves. those suckers are there

[sterile coral]

Even Ulysses had more of a point than Hank does, and Ulysses was off blaming a damn mailman for doing their damn job.

[sullen latch]

"One side is murdering people, enslaving them and crucifying them, and the other side is just vaguely problematic"

They really called out like 95% of anti-NCR proponents

[sudden sand]

all 10 legion fanboys gonna be real pissed

[sterile coral]

Heck, even Caesar was spitting more facts about the NCR back in the day than Hank is.

[sullen latch]

I mean, Caesar is definitely smart

He just doesn't exactly have a good moral compass

[lost stream]

i just had a interesting theory: ||what if the last episode mr houses screen was a recording and after the recording it switched to yes man face and then out walks the courier in full ranger armour with bullet hole in helmet holding antimateriel rifle and then cuts to black ending season 2||

[sudden sand]

that would be immensly cringe

[lusty ingot]

Whould be quite awful

[wheat lodge]

None of the factions in the games are truly good

[wheat lodge]

I would stop watching the show if that happened

Also, here is a short resume of all the Fallout factions:
•The Enclave: Facism, wastelanders aren't humans, they are mutants
•The NCR: Democracy with too much taxes
•The Legion: Racism, Sexism, Conquest and Dictature
•The Institute: Scientific dominion over all
•The minutemen: Patriotic extremists
•The BoS: Authoritarian group
•The Unity: Autocracy, everyone must listen to the master
•The Strip: Lesser Autocracy
•Follower of the Apocalypse: humanitarianism, every body deserves to live
•Vault dwellers: victims of the pre war craziness
•The Hubologists: Religious sect
•Shi: Flawed communism, lead by an AI
•Ghoul settlements: Helping each other against the oppression of non ghouls
•Raiders: Authoritarian groups who steal to keep existing

•Pre war America: Mix between Aristocracy and Facism
•Pre war China: "Big bad" Communism

Choose your side people

[short wave]

I’d turn off the television

[inner pollen]

i'd punch the television

[short wave]

The NCR is the best faction for the wasteland if you’re going by wastelander standards

[inner pollen]

like a proper irrational NV fan

[lost stream]

the bos are just plain communist thats the only thing i object too on the list

stealing from the public

[real scroll]

You forgot the railroad

[lost stream]

there not a real faction lol

just a cult

[real scroll]

objectively they are in terms of gameplay

[lost stream]

lol

[sudden sand]

yo has the track 'family' been used yet

[lost stream]

actually you know i think the railroad are more human then wastelanders when you think about it

[sudden sand]

i get the feeling it will be next week when coop meets his family

[lost stream]

because they arnt the bodies of wastelanders becasue to make them were the dna of father prewar so tech there pure human not mutated dna

[lusty ingot]

You dont know what cults are

[lost stream]

sorry a poor excuse of one

[lusty ingot]

Again there not a cult

They'res nonthing religious about the railroad

[lost stream]

i know im just using a terminology to insult them

[wheat lodge]

Who gives a fuck about them honestly. Nobody likes them

[real scroll]

False advertising then

You said all of them

[wheat lodge]

I gotta disagree

[wheat lodge]

True.
• the Railroad: Robots should have more rights than humans

[lost stream]

the only ones who arnt communists are commonwealth but as awhole there ideals are communists

[real scroll]

thats better

[wheat lodge]

West coast is a sect

[lost stream]

fine communist zealots

[wheat lodge]

Nah, just lunatics

[lost stream]

lol

https://tenor.com/view/the-road-to-el-dorado-both-both-is-good-gif-8304204

[wheat lodge]

Yes

[real scroll]

Also you're technically also missing the Children of Atom and the Responders

Foundation Too

And thats not accounting for the individual Raider gangs that you have the option to join like the Pitt Raiders, Nuka World Raiders, or Appalachian Raiders

[wheat lodge]

I put raiders up there

[wheat lodge]

I am NOT taking into account fallout 67's factions

[real scroll]

Why not

[wheat lodge]

Because I don't like the game

[real scroll]

Doesnt mean they don't exist

[wheat lodge]

For me they don't

[real scroll]

Oh okay let me just try and edit that title for you
"Also, here is a short resume of all the Fallout factions except the ones I personally dont like:"

[wheat lodge]

Exactly, thx for the new title

(I honestly just forgot about those factions because they weren't memorable enough)

[wide venture]

nate the rake gotta lock in on steph

[real scroll]

And the Hubologists are?

[wheat lodge]

The sect in San Francisco

[sterile coral]

And also who popped up in Nuka-World outta nowhere.

[rapid wigeon]

Sciotologist spoof from Fallout 2 who got added stories in Nuka World

[real scroll]

No I know who they are

Im just saying that apperantly those guys aren't memorable enough but the Hubologists are apperantly

[candid rose]

no

that is not even a theory

[rapid wigeon]

Fallout New California canonized by main game

Bravo Todd Howard

[real scroll]

oh noooo

[wheat lodge]

@real scroll

[heavy anchor]

I interpret this scene in 3 ways for 3 endings

1. House (kinda obvious, he rigs the game with Courier and takes over new Vegas)
2. Yes man and courier over throw the house and "rigs the game"
3. NCR victory and Courier "rigged" the game in the NCR favor

[real scroll]

yuuuuuuuuuus?

[wheat lodge]

Looked at the message I replied to

[rapid wigeon]

Somehow the Master returned

[wheat lodge]

Somehow the scorched returned

[heavy anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/somehow-palpatine-returned-somehow-palpatine-poe-dameron-poe-gif-20849141

[wheat lodge]

If they bring the scorched from Fo76 in the show, I will stop watching it

[real scroll]

boooo

[wheat lodge]

Not my fault if the scorched was the shittiest plot in all of the franchise

[timber oyster]

loved seeing everyone clown on that guy's theory 😭 not that i dont like that guy, idek who he is, but it's funny how everyone agreed it was bad. poor soul

[limber egret]

Oh cool, you can see NCR troopers in that recent behind the scenes video with Johnny Pemberton

[visual echo]

What theory

[timber oyster]

just scroll up a bit

they put a spoiler warning on it so it should be pretty eyecatching

[visual echo]

Oh ya

[ashen sapphire]

it's house, coop was asleep during NV

[fresh drum]

How’d coops daughter make it to the vault and not him

[inner pollen]

we still don't know yet

hasn't been revealed to us

[real scroll]

My guess is a Vault-Tec or Enclave person found them and took off with Janey but left Coop for dead

[fresh drum]

Could’ve made it but denied entry

[real scroll]

Since the intro implies that Cooper was blacklisted and financially ruined after becoming a whistleblower and had to divorce with Barb

[fresh drum]

Vault tec had some serious power

Sucks what happened to him life ruined for learning the truth then trying to save the world but in the process giving it to the one person that’d end the world

Then seeing the bombs he thought he stopped drop on the city

[inner pollen]

hard to say about that too tho

[real scroll]

Though with the twist that Barb actually helped him it seems that they had to stage the divorce to prevent the total fallout (haha) from the situaton

[fresh drum]

https://tenor.com/view/say-that-again-gif-968943876633031890

[inner pollen]

i got so confused with those flashbacks this episode 😭

so she did help him 🤔 but surely she would've known that helping Coop with giving Cold Fusion to the government (Enclave) would NOT have gone over so smoothly.

but then the whole "you're a monster!" stuff??? 😭😭????????

[atomic cedar]

She doesn't know about the Enclave

[real scroll]

Literally like no one does

Only those inside of it

[inner pollen]

no but she's aware that there's something more powerful, especially after she was warned by Wilzig.

[atomic cedar]

I'm not sure how you tie that to the President

[inner pollen]

the enclave - but she doesn't know that

[atomic cedar]

Especially when to Cooper, the senator is the only "good" person and she recommended the President

Nobody knows the Enclave they're a shadow government

[inner pollen]

yes. that's what i'm saying.

she doesn't know of the Enclave specifically. but after Wilzig warning her, it becomes apparent to her that there's another unseen player at the table.

[atomic cedar]

For all she knows it's House or Vault tech

[inner pollen]

🤔 good point

[atomic cedar]

The whole point is that they are tricked into thinking the government are the good guys

[inner pollen]

but regardless, she must've known it would put a target on either her, Cooper's, or both of their backs.

[atomic cedar]

Well that's why they wanted to give it to someone they thought would put it in the right hands

Which was senator lady and she told them to give it to the President

[inner pollen]

sooo… they were hoping for total immunity just because they believed they gave it to the right person?

[real scroll]

They believe with it they could stop the resource war and end the conflict

[atomic cedar]

Well yeah

They really thought the government would do the right thing

[sterile coral]

And how could Coop be sure POTUS wasn't part of the Enclave? Dude gambled bigly with that whole thing.

[inner pollen]

i must remember that they have unwavering faith in the government

i keep forgetting that 😭

[atomic cedar]

Not necessarily just that Cooper trusted the senator lady because she was the only senator not taking money from corps

[icy turtle]

The Enclave is literally the deepstate, half the government doesn't know it exists.

[atomic cedar]

Nobody pre war including House knows about the enclave

[sterile coral]

Still one hell of a gamble for Coop.

[inner pollen]

but surely Barb would have doubts about the integrity of the government after working with Vault-Tec? right…?? 😭

[icy turtle]

Not really, he genuinely is just blissfully unaware of how deep their influence runs. He's a patriot, if you recall, he's gonna fully trust his president and believe the leader of his country is the good guy.
It's only a gamble if you assume the government is compromised, he doesn't. He assumes Vault tec is doing all this unbeknownst to the government.

[inner pollen]

-# his blinding patriotism is killing me

[icy turtle]

No, Barb is probably just as blissfully unaware as he is. The Board Directors themselves of Vault tec, barely knew the Enclave, and they were above Barb.

[atomic cedar]

Probably why he doesn't think good people exist post war because the only good person he trusted ended up with the enclave getting cold fusion

[sterile coral]

Still, I do wonder how long it'll be until he realizes the sheer depth of his mistake pre-War.

[inner pollen]

https://tenor.com/view/banging-head-against-the-wall-kyle-broflovski-south-park-s24e2-vaccination-special-gif-23194228

[icy turtle]

Dr Braun knew OF them, and Hugo probably did? It's unclear, he never mentions them outright, he just refers to the government as they are, so it's super vague. Given Hugo got his hands on Liberty prime's plans, i have to assume Hugo knew to some extent too, but Hugo was super independent and did a bunch of things that went against the Enclave's directives/goals, whether he knew it or not.

[icy turtle]

I imagine it won't be until the bombs fall, i feel like it's what he was mentioning to Lucy when he was like, "I used to be like you, 200 years ago - fuckin' stupid."

[inner pollen]

he really undersold how stupid

he was in the army

he saw shit

[sterile coral]

Which then poses the question of why the Enclave didn't bump Coop, Barb, and Janey off in quiet 'accidents' after they got cold fusion. Gotta tie up loose ends, after all.

[inner pollen]

but nope! unwavering trust and faith!

no "governments sure do love becoming corrupt and it's a pattern that's lasted since forever!"

"our government is different! why? uhhhh bc WE'RE AMERICAN 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥"

[icy turtle]

Yes but you have to keep in mind the amount of propaganda that underwent in the FO universe during War time, in every country.
It's not beyond the pale to initially assume what he saw was a Chinese experiment or something. They fully believed China was capable of stuff like that.

[last ruin]

God bless America and God Bless the Enclave.

[sterile coral]

Guy also kinda blew off House as a crackpot.

[icy turtle]

That, too. When House was right. Lol crazy or not, House was correct

[last ruin]

Coop seems to be written off as a pinko, we don't know what happened to Barb or how Janey got to her. Presumably Barb still had value and disappearing a public figure like Coop would have been risky.

[icy turtle]

if we're going off of the first episode in the series - Coop hands off Janey to Barb when the bombs start falling, so im curious how that plays out.

[sterile coral]

Perhaps the divorce was a tactical move by Coop and Barb?

[real scroll]

TBF he had a silly hat

[icy turtle]

I'm convinced it was, yeah, cause we know Vault tec must've blacklisted him after that.

[inner pollen]

facts cannot restrain me from wanting to irrationally smack him upside the head and go:

[last ruin]

We don't see when or where that takes place. The way Barb is treating Coop when he steals the cold fusion device makes it seem like the divorce was complicated, probably a way to keep the enclave from killing him if she discredits him as a commie.

[inner pollen]

but you are right. i just have big feelings about this apparently 😭

[inner pollen]

wonder what the alimony was for then 🤔

[craggy hedge]

were there two cold fusions in the device or am i delusional?
i never understood what’s that device’s purpose i have the attention span of an unborn child

[icy turtle]

I agree with you, but consider the form of propaganda from the perspective that it's indoctrination for it's citizens.

[last ruin]

They still got divorced, it just seems mutual and complicated instead of a falling out ie Barb being a diehard VT nuker

[icy turtle]

There was two, yes.

[inner pollen]

🙂‍↕️

[inner pollen]

HUH????

[icy turtle]

To some extent yeah, but where he was, was in LA - im sure they'll explain it.

[real scroll]

why are so many people fighting over the magic blue eyelash

[icy turtle]

The pre-war cold fusion is not the same cold fusion post-war.

[inner pollen]

it's infinite energy

[craggy hedge]

but at some point in the episode they say there’s only one which max gave to coop

[real scroll]

i know im being dumb

[icy turtle]

Yes, that's the one Wilzig created, post-war.

[sterile coral]

Even so, would the Enclave's plans be really that different had that cold fusion diode been smashed against a wall pre-War instead of being given to them?

[craggy hedge]

makes sense, thanks

[inner pollen]

https://tenor.com/view/wwe-world-wrestling-entertainment-wrestling-wrestler-john-cena-gif-4632059

[icy turtle]

Wilzig is seen making it in s1. The issue is that Wilzig made it but he didn't have the Vault tec codes, that's where Moldaver came in.

[inner pollen]

oh dude i should just put myself into a retirement home now with how shit my memory is

so

the pre-war cold fusion is currently in possession of Mr. Krabs

[icy turtle]

Yes, the Enclave loses it at somepoint, but the facility you see in S1, makes another.

[inner pollen]

where did it go? is the big question

[last ruin]

I don't get what the diode is, or why an enclave made cold fusion device would need a VT code.

I thought the Moldaver machine was the VT made receiver for the diode which is why she could activate the machine? But when it gets to House he can activate it normally.

[icy turtle]

Yeah, i thought so too, but apparently not.

[inner pollen]

this just keeps getting more complicated

[sterile coral]

And heck, wasn't VT a proxy for the Enclave? Shouldn't they have access to those codes already?

[icy turtle]

Yes and no, Vault tec took orders from the Enclave, they were deeply embedded, but Vault tec was not a shell, and was not a proxy. They were close to becoming one, but they officially never were.

[last ruin]

Nah VT was a legit company, the enclave was just funding them to have their own secret bunker complexes

[icy turtle]

Evident by Hugo and Braun being independent of the Enclave, themselves. The highest ranking VT members.

[craggy hedge]

im playing every fallout game except the non-canon ones rn and most things are just so complicated

[last ruin]

The initial runs of vaults were funded by the Enclave when VT was basically a startup company. Then when it took off, they opened up bidding to other companies and became a testbed for new tech. The Enclave was able to feed off their research just like it fed off WestTek research for their own goals.

[west cloud]

I mean...NCR as a whole is more than Shady Sands, so the show is kind of weird with their setup.

700k+ population, with one city holding 35k.

[zenith agate]

n.b. that the 700k is 40 years earlier, so call it 1.something mil

[sterile coral]

And it wasn't even clear whether Shady Sands was even the current capital at the time Hank did a little nuclear trolling.

[west cloud]

Yeah. At worst, he caused a political fuckup and is the main reason why the military is disoriented due to chain of command, maybe logistics got fucked a bit, but NCR should still be strong.

[inner pollen]

if the resource war was still going on when the bombs dropped (afaik); China still had a twitchy trigger finger that just kept on getting twitcher (which led to them dropping the bombs in fear of invasion according to FO1 lore - possibly because they became aware of America having some sort of limitless source of energy, which could be used to make more bombs and what not, and give them all the balls in the world to wholly attack China); House didn't end up getting it until Cooper took it from Max; Enclave didn't have it, just the data on how to make it, which is how the new post-war Cold Fusion was made by Wilzig… what tf ended up with pre-war Cold Fusion?????

[heavy anchor]

Zzzz

[inner pollen]

did the President just shove it up his ass wtf

[west cloud]

Very good point.

[zenith agate]

possibly because they became aware of America having some sort of limitless source of energy, which could be used to make more bombs and what not
or it's just the natural consequence of two nuclear powers fighting and one invading the other

I feel like "China launched because [incredibly specific reason]" does a real disservice to the fact that the nuclear exchange becomes increasingly inevitable the longer the war continues

[inner pollen]

that too

[candid rose]

and they haven't mentioned the entire pop or other cities at all

[atomic cedar]

The entire point of the franchise is that people will kill each other because that's human nature war... War never changes

[zenith agate]

especially given that the USA is throwing around various tactical nuclear weapons at the start of the conflict (see: the Ebon Atol), so they're starting out waaaaay up the nuclear escalation ladder

[inner pollen]

it's the only theory i can think of if there is to be a specific reason. but making it not have a reason is far better storytelling to show that war never changes

China launching them out of paranoia for how long the war had gone on for sounds better

[last ruin]

Please assume the position

[sterile coral]

And honestly, it's not like China had no reason to launch; God knows what their spy networks could've told them about what was going on over in America that would've incentivized them to fire first.

[atomic cedar]

Mainland China was being invaded they were losing that's why they launched

[zenith agate]

You use or you lose when your silos and launch control centers get overrun, and they used.

[inner pollen]

oh shit?

act of desperation then, which triggered MAD

[atomic cedar]

They directly explain why the war started in Fallout 2

[inner pollen]

assuming the Fallout Universe has MAD

[sterile coral]

Though consider this; if Little Yangtze was already operational in the leadup to the Great War, imagine countless ones just like it across occupied China or the US containing God knows how many Chinese. Big MT and their ilk'd never have a shortage of test subjects again, and we all know how twisted they could be.

[west cloud]

Discovery of FEV, the trained Deathclaws and them on their soil with troops. It was them freaking the fuck out.

Deathclaws smashing through homes and fortifications like they're made of paper to kill folks instantly while gunfire for the most part does little to deter them.

[sterile coral]

From the Chinese POV, maybe it'd be better to be like Samson and take the Philistines with you.

[atomic cedar]

I mean China was doing crazy stuff as well

[zenith agate]

both sides seem to have gotten mutually destroyed, so it's pretty safe to say they have it

[inner pollen]

this is literally the only place in ten years since i've been involved with Fallout that anyone's gone: "no. China dropped the bombs. here's why."

everywhere else are people making theories on who dropped the bombs.

[candid rose]

hey look it's derek

[atomic cedar]

Because Fallout "fans" never actually played any of the original Fallout games

[west cloud]

Yeah, they were cooking up a plague to virus bomb american soil to effectively kill everyone

[inner pollen]

https://tenor.com/view/blinking-eyes-white-guy-blinking-meme-what-huh-gif-26334322

[sterile coral]

Still doesn't mean even a tenth of what pre-War America was up to was in any way fucking justified.

[zenith agate]

they also haven't played the modern ones
F4 makes it very clear that China launches first in two different places.

[sterile coral]

Could it have been possible the Enclave... spoofed those Chinese launches? Think what nearly caused WW3 in 1983 if not for Stanislav Petrov.

[west cloud]

God no, I'm just stating the obvious: both sides are NOT innocent and are pretty fucked in the heads for their methods. RIP to the innocent civvies, tho.

[zenith agate]

the bomb conspiracy theories are fun, but they're also really not in keeping with the whole theme of the series

"war never changes but actually the war wouldn't have happened if it hadn't been for the [deep state][corporate cabal][actual aliens] causing it"

[atomic cedar]

The war was inevitable

[sterile coral]

Which then begs the question of if the pre-War world was even worth saving even if the Enclave weren't a thing.

[atomic cedar]

That's a strange question

What do you mean worth saving you mean worth not genociding all life on earth?

[inner pollen]

war is always inevitable bc the big people get a right hard on for money, power, and fame 😒 stupid stuff

[inner pollen]

yes, it's worth saving. but in doing so you'd probably be committing genocide of all the really bad people… so

[sterile coral]

I mean simply whether the world that'd have resulted from, say, a pre-War American victory would've been one that'd be even worth it considering the whole world was rapidly falling apart anyway from the resource bullshit. A world run by pre-War America after overthrowing China strikes me as somehow fucking worse than the post-apocalypse.

[inner pollen]

kinda hypocritical

and it would take a long time to right the wrongs…

[atomic cedar]

Nuking the world didn't actually make it any better

[inner pollen]

no, but it does provide for a slightly blank slate.

[atomic cedar]

In fact average living conditions became worse and even less good natured people and worse fates emerged

[feral cloud]

Me

[sterile coral]

It's like a terminally ill patient or pet; sure, you could extend their life a bit, perhaps, but they'd be in god knows how much pain and agony.

[feral cloud]

Mr. Krabs is canonically the president of The USA 🇺🇸 in Fallout

https://tenor.com/view/mr-krabs-money-spongebob-gif-16807794896076753543

[atomic cedar]

You switched it from the government controlling everything to now there's multiple evil governments as well as literal monsters and demons after you

Almost everything is poisoned

There were 0 upsides to the apocalypse

[inner pollen]

but there's big cute geckos ):

[atomic cedar]

Also the apocalypse didn't get rid of the shadow government

[sterile coral]

Fair enough

[atomic cedar]

This is partly why the only way to reestablish a working civilization is the Legion

[inner pollen]

does it have to be the Legion 😭

[atomic cedar]

NCR has been proven not to work

[inner pollen]

can we change some of their… ideologies?

[atomic cedar]

In time yes just like Rome

[inner pollen]

in time 😭

[sterile coral]

Ok, Hank.

[atomic cedar]

Civilization has to crawl out of the collapse first just like irl

Rome was founded after a irl apocalypse

And it brought about modern civilization

[ashen sapphire]

And it fell

[atomic cedar]

No it changed

Rome itself never fully fell apart

It changed and set up the groundwork for modern civilization

Turned from Roman empire into the Byzantine empire and eventually the Holy Roman Empire and then set up the modern era

But the first step of conquering the known world was necessary in establishing thriving humanity

Brutal but necessary

[inner pollen]

don't worry gang!! :D we gotta bear with the slavery, imperialism, rape, misogyny, toxic masculinity, apathy, racism, brutality, abuse, massive egos, in-fighting, ignorance, and so much more until it gets "better"

[candid rose]

this is not really correct.

[inner pollen]

saying it's necessary is just an excuse and lie to yourself to do horrible things 😭

[nimble anvil]

Who do you guys think dies in Episode 8?

[inner pollen]

hopefully Hank

[sterile coral]

Yeah, Hank is long overdue for a stretched neck.

[heavy gorge]

But the thing is Rome didn't thrive after conquering just because it held territory
But more importantly, it held because it developed it because it had the civilian capability, as in, the cities they held and the people under them were as important as the legions
The Legion, as Edward himself said it, still has no Rome. As in, it still has no civilian capability as important as its' military.

[inner pollen]

gn can't wait to see how this conversation goes

[atomic cedar]

While rampant evil is being committed this is blatantly ignoring everything the Legion has accomplished no other faction has come close to actually establishing any real order to the wasteland

[atomic cedar]

New Vegas awaits

[heavy gorge]

Evil is a key part of the Legion because Edward really does not understand that anti-thesis does not equal to cartoon villainism

[atomic cedar]

Also legion territory is the safest free from raiders and radioactive monsters

[iron charm]

oh man imagine if someone makes a ready or not mod for fallout 4 but it’s nate and the map is vault 32

[atomic cedar]

I am not a fan of the obvious terrible actions the legion does but they're probably the only faction capable of actually bringing order to the wasteland

[leaden furnace]

Edward is perfectly aware that he only has the trappings of Rome, the slavery is a means to an end. It’s most definitely not something he wants to keep forever.

[atomic cedar]

First step is beating the apocalypse then second step is reform

[iron charm]

“Only faction capable of bringing order to the wasteland” if order means that they become the monster

[atomic cedar]

In order to kill the monster you must become one

[iron charm]

Idk man the NCR did just fine destroying the enclave without becoming the monster

[atomic cedar]

NCR is perfect example of why the alternative doesn't work

[leaden furnace]

When people critique the Legion they often make the mistake of treating it as Caesar’s attempt at emulating the Roman Empire when it isn’t; it’s a attempt to unify disparate tribes using Roman aesthetics and martial culture so they can enact a change that is similar to what happened to the Roman Republic when it fell. Really Caesar wants a New Californian Empire.

[iron charm]

Just cuz the legion is so damn primitive that vault tec ignores them doesn’t mean they’re the better choice

[atomic cedar]

The NCR then became a corrupt hellhole disregarding its own citizens the moment Tandi died

Literally every interaction with the NCR in NV is showing just how poorly run it is

[iron charm]

“Corrupt hellhole” did you not watch the show and how shady sands was doing pre vault tec?

[leaden furnace]

Lol yeah a post-war utopia in the notorious shithole that is the Boneyards. Good one show

[atomic cedar]

Every interaction we have with NCR and people comparing them in NV shows NCR is only good if you're in good with the barons

[iron charm]

Bro if you call shady sands a hellhole I can’t imagine what you’d call that horror of a post Caesar legion camp is

[atomic cedar]

You can literally ask the merchants in NV and they tell you Legion territory is safer and they prefer working there than the NCR territory

[iron charm]

nah this man is completely blind there’s no way you watched the damn show and come to that comclusion

[atomic cedar]

And the legion doesn't enslave everyone

[iron charm]

Cuz the ones that lived haven’t had their heads decapitated

[atomic cedar]

Did you play New Vegas

[iron charm]

Are we talking about a far off outpost of the NCR or the NCR proper

[atomic cedar]

The legion has a non military non slave population

[leaden furnace]

The show is a pretty one sided look at the NCR and doesn’t actually comment on their inefficiencies at all

They definitely exist we just don’t see them

[iron charm]

They exist, but it’s vaguely problematic

[leaden furnace]

Sure

[atomic cedar]

What we are explicitly told about the NCR is that they're corrupt and living conditions are worse than being independent

They can't even properly deal with raiders

[iron charm]

“Living conditions are worse than being independent” what is this man on

[atomic cedar]

The key difference between being under NCR rule and independent is that you are taxed under NCR and thats it

They can't help you solve any problems

[iron charm]

tf are you doing in the fotv channel if it’s clear you didn’t watch the tv show

[atomic cedar]

Primm moment

[iron charm]

Shady sands moment

[heavy gorge]

You do remember the fact we did get the Boneyard as Thaddeus' birth place last episode right?
He didn't exactly say it was a good place
Shady is a thing apart from Boneyard, like it always was

[leaden furnace]

like it always was

[atomic cedar]

💪

[heavy gorge]

Yes
It has been a different thing from Shady Sands
Because it is not Shady Sands

[iron charm]

The boneyard isn’t a shithole bc of the NCR, it’s a shithole since it got the capital wasteland treatment

[heavy gorge]

That as well

Miracle to even have a notable industry sector there as opposed to Hub, for example

[leaden furnace]

Shady is like right on the edge of the city. We can see it merging with the infrastructure, it’s part of the Boneyard. Though anyways yeah sure, perhaps Shady and Adytum (if that still exists in canon), are just the nice districts essentially.

[atomic cedar]

Shady Sands is also not at all the example of your typical NCR territory

[iron charm]

The whole “merchants are safer in legion territory” argument has been rendered the same as “people in Russia long for the USSR” argument

They long for it because they weren’t the ones that were killed

[atomic cedar]

It's like using New York City as a representation for your average American city

[atomic cedar]

The merchants are free to go and leave as they choose

[heavy gorge]

What, because the skyline?
I'm pretty sure that was some unnamed generic pre-War city a-la Hopeville or Ashton
As in, skyscrapers don't exist in Death Valley but because development in sci-fi 50s coded future they did for 2077

[atomic cedar]

And they still say Legion is better

Even Cass begrudgingly admitted this

And she's in an NCR base

Saying the legion is just slavery is omitting a large part of why they're successful

[heavy gorge]

They are successful because a guy with Roman books organized a nomadic army based on a bastardized Roman military structure targeting tribes with inferior numbers

[iron charm]

And it’s the same reason why they failed

[heavy gorge]

That's why
If you had an actual NCR equivalent in Arizona or something Caesar would have been dead the moment he tried to take them on at the Legion's start

[zenith agate]

the Khans are an example of them dealing with raiders

[iron charm]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripartite_classification_of_authority

you are trying to attribute rational legal authority to a system that is purely based on charismatic authority with a mix of bastardized traditional authority

[leaden furnace]

Caesar started the Legion from a weak position. The Blackfoots conquered the other 3 tribes through the knowledge and strategy he gave them. An NCR equivalent doesn’t exist in Arizona because the conditions for that to develop were never met.

[atomic cedar]

And the NCR got wiped out after a single city blew up

[heavy gorge]

I'm not saying an NCR equivalent should have existed, I'm saying that if it existed the Legion would have died the moment it even thought to get a despotic hold over the three tribes harassing the Blackfoot

[leaden furnace]

The same likely wouldn’t have happened in Cali without brutal warfare and conquest either. Ala the vault dweller and BoS dealing with the Unity and raider tribes, along with Shady inherently starting privileged compared to most settlements.

[autumn sonnet]

my boi maximus gonna wreck those deathclaws

[atomic cedar]

The NCR is incapable of handling raiders

[heavy gorge]

They were at the right place at the right time because in any other situation they would have not gotten as big

[ornate iris]

im not a big fan of the military paint for the T-45, i know its a nitpick but

[ashen sapphire]

we don't even know yet

[leaden furnace]

They’re better at it than most, just not as well equipped as the Legion. The BoS war being ongoing in their territory probably contributes to this.

[zenith agate]

the roads are apparently so safe that random NCR citizens can travel to Vegas to gamble

[leaden furnace]

Well the Long 15 anyways. We know raiders and bandits are notable in some areas.

But it’s mostly safe

[zenith agate]

the writing is bad and inconsistent, yes, but the NCR is presented as broadly pretty safe

[leaden furnace]

Lol, can’t help yourself eh?

[small flicker]

the ncr who let a slaver exist on their doorstep because of a loophole was never gonna be as effective vs raiders as the crucify anyone that moves guys

[iron charm]

NCR is safe enough for one guy to haul an entire cart of stuff into shady sands without being ambushed.

[atomic cedar]

In fact, you can make the argument that the NCR is increasing how many raiders there are literally importing the powder gangers

[leaden furnace]

House’s economy is mostly kept afloat by the soldiers stationed there and well protected caravan outfits, as explained in game

[atomic cedar]

Let's give a bunch of evil convicts Dynamite. That's a good idea

[small flicker]

pretty stupid plan in hindsight

[leaden furnace]

Tandi, the greatest love of slavers!

[atomic cedar]

And who is solving the powder ganger problem that's right

[atomic cedar]

This is the biggest misconception about the legion. They don't just murder everyone they run across

[small flicker]

im not drinking your kool aid bud

[leaden furnace]

Well they don’t if they cooperate. They will if you don’t, or at least enslave you.

[iron charm]

Hank being confident enough that his plan of sending one incoherent, rambling guy through NCR territory will work and that the guy will end up in shady sands unharmed with this cargo speaks to the safety of the roads in the NCR

[small flicker]

it was a bit of hyperbole yes

[atomic cedar]

You would be wise to join the legion willingly

[iron charm]

“Join us or die” what a fantastically fair faction

[small flicker]

chuds with machetes when they see a mini nuke flying over the horizon

[atomic cedar]

And even then they don't require you to join the legion as there are many independent merchants and travelers that go through Legion lands

[atomic cedar]

You are so close to figuring it out

[zenith agate]

"they don't murder everyone! they just kill you if they don't enslave you" is sure one of the pitches of all time

[leaden furnace]

From what we know the extent of the NCR’s raider/bandit problems seems to be directed to frontier settlements and rich farmlands owned largely by Brahmin barons, hence why they keep the heavy troopers back. It’s mostly well protected.

All major settlements definitely have perfectly fine roads outside of the odd criminal or radscorpion you might run into

[atomic cedar]

That's right. The NCR is only good if you are part of the corrupt system of the barona

[zenith agate]

n.b. that the threat to the brahmin barons is implied in context to not be real, so it's more just the frontier

[iron charm]

How many tribes did Caesar wipe out? We know of at least 6.

Including the tribe that gave Caesar’s legion bitter drink

So yes, it’s join us or die

[atomic cedar]

Seems like a pretty easy answer

Let's not forget the NCR has the exact same policy

[iron charm]

the fuck are you on about....?

[leaden furnace]

He’s right you know…

[iron charm]

ive yet to hear about the NCR intentionally wiping out every last man woman and child

[zenith agate]

you can tell they don't have this policy by the way that literally nobody says they have this policy, including Caesar

[leaden furnace]

They say Kimball was just clearing out raiders in the Sierra Nevadas but we really know what was happening

God bless him though

Never been another destroyer of tribals like him

[iron charm]

and are you really fucking saying that you support countries that genocide people that refuse to join them?

[atomic cedar]

Never once have I said I agree with everything that the legion does

By this logic we can say if you like the NCR then you are a big fan of removing people's freedoms as well

[iron charm]

really

[atomic cedar]

💪

[iron charm]

jfc im not arguing with someone pro-genocide

[leaden furnace]

We rise, we devour, we take what’s ours

[atomic cedar]

You can support the legion and not be a fan of genocide lol

[iron charm]

Seems like a pretty easy answer
? tf does this mean then

[zenith agate]

welcome to the fallout discord

[iron charm]

"oh well they didnt join caesars legion they deserved to be genocided"

[atomic cedar]

I wouldn't go as low to say that if you like the NCR then you are pro-corruption

[leaden furnace]

I would

[atomic cedar]

I mean I would but not IRL lol

[iron charm]

corruption can be fixed and reforms can happen

ive yet to see you criticize the legion for their genocide

in fact it seems like you feel like the tribes that the legion genocided are stupid despite one of them clearly cooperating with the legion before they were genocided

[heavy gorge]

That's kinda an oxymoron
No, you cannot reform the Legion
You would have to reform it drastically to the point it is not the Legion anymore
No, Rome wasn't like that, the Republic to the Empire transition was not abrupt as you would like to think your argument

[atomic cedar]

I never said it was overnight

[iron charm]

you never said anything except defend the legion and their actions

[atomic cedar]

This is also not true

[leaden furnace]

Yes it would take time as the NCR is slowly conquered by the Legion

[iron charm]

"every country that takes over china becomes china" lmao

[leaden furnace]

That’s true

[atomic cedar]

That's pretty much what happened to Europe

It's a means to an end

[heavy gorge]

Ok maybe abrupt isn't the word
But it definitely did not become a whole different entity in that transition
The Legion does if it wants to be reedemable
Which inherently makes it unreedemable because of the fact would not even be the Legion anymore at the end of the pile of reforms they would have to do
The synthesis Caesar talks of isn't enough, you will be making the Legion problems worse by a lemniscate-fold

Greater slavery even if not refered to it as slavery, greater brutality even if not refered to it as brutality, greater repression, etc

[atomic cedar]

Reform will happen regardless of the system, even would the Legion continue to wipe out the NCR and then take over the east Coast they wouldn't remain the same

They would have to change or fall apart

Legion is the first step

[heavy gorge]

Not one in the right direction, really

You cannot excuse it even if its the wasteland

[atomic cedar]

You can't reform an uncivilized world, civilize it first then we can fix the system

[heavy gorge]

Because even people in the wasteland don't excuse it

[atomic cedar]

You need everyone on the same page

[leaden furnace]

They do depending on if it benefits them or not

[heavy gorge]

You don't beat them with sticks and clubs to get them to that page, though

[atomic cedar]

I'm not excusing the overtly evil actions the legion takes

[heavy gorge]

You are, actually

[atomic cedar]

Well shoot you must know me better than me

[heavy gorge]

Ends justify the means is such an essential authoritarian idea that basically grants you a do anything you want card

This is morality

[heavy gorge]

Brother I have reading skills

[candid badger]

Why are people saying that the NCR ranger power armor is ‘designed to kill deathclaws’

[leaden furnace]

Caesar could have certainly opted for a imperialist approach to building a “democracy” if he wanted, though establishing the civilization, culture, and infrastructure for that would have taken far beyond his own lifetime and would have a high chance of collapsing in on itself or being conquered by the NCR or any other civilization in the interim.

[iron charm]

people are saying that? i mean it kinda makes sense though, lots of big blades in anticipation that deathclaws will survive your bullets long enough to get into melee

[atomic cedar]

Legion playthrough has Caesar making the Courier the next in line and canon has Kevinus which shows the Legion has legs to continue

[candid badger]

People who defend this show with their lives are saying it on twitter and calling people who have no idea why they’re bringing it up tourists, yeah, but at the same time this isnt mentioned in any of the games so I have zero clue what they are talling about

[leaden furnace]

The courier being the heir is just fan fiction though I do like it

[iron charm]

really? on twitter ive noticed that most people are attacking the show with their lives and calling defenders tourists

[leaden furnace]

Idk if Lacerta is a good replacement lol he just seems like a more unhinged Vulpes

[atomic cedar]

Printing the couriers face on the denarius was common practice for upcoming rulers so the people would know who the next leader would look like

[ashen sapphire]

why else would the big blades be there?

[candid badger]

It leans more in favor of people who like the show but yeah theres a vocal minority of checkmark grifters

[ornate iris]

because they're practical in close quarters combat

[leaden furnace]

Depending on how you characterize your courier it could work out. I think it depends if he’s as or more intellectual than Caesar.

[iron charm]

charismatic*

[atomic cedar]

I mean it seems pretty clear the NCR power armor is just a custom built for close quarters combat doesn't necessarily need to be deathclaw specific

[leaden furnace]

He needs to be charismatic yes, but sharing the vision is most important

[ashen sapphire]

i don't think the NCR would use power armor with big blades on it against people

[heavy gorge]

You do that by...being charismatic?

[iron charm]

was gonn say lol

[atomic cedar]

People aren't the only things in the wasteland

[heavy gorge]

So that way you know how to sell it to people

[candid badger]

There is definitely a spectrum between a malnourished raider with a pipe rifle and a death claw

[iron charm]

legion has always been a charisma/traditional based authority

[leaden furnace]

No, you share the vision by logically understanding it and following it lol. This assumes you truthfully share Caesar’s viewpoint. Charisma is importantly yes I already stated that. Charisma is useless if you don’t have the core agenda.

[ashen sapphire]

i mean the suit doesn't have to be SPECIFICALLY designed for use against deathclaws, but wildlife in general

[candid badger]

Legion is bad but I don’t really like how pro NCR the show is

[leaden furnace]

It is cringeworthy yeah

[iron charm]

i wish we got a shi appearance

i am an avid independent shi state supporter

[ornate iris]

why wildlife and not just combat in general

[candid badger]

Uncritically supporting the state that is puppeted by a bunch of murderous ranchers who employ sharecroppers and also participate in slavery (chain gangs) as well as allow them to openly operate within their borders until it conflicts with their interests

[cinder tinsel]

The problem is that no matter which ending you choose, the Courier leaves the Mojave, which doesn't really make sense if Caesar wants him to be the next Caesar and turn NV into his Rome

[iron charm]

because bullets can be expensive and not worth wasting on mole rats

oh nvm i didnt see the last part im dumb lol

[ornate iris]

if you're right next to a target human or not and in power armor i'd rather there be a blade on the arm when i backhand smack them

[ashen sapphire]

because i doubt they would use something like that on people

[leaden furnace]

Tfw unchecked capitalist influence and over consumption contributed to the Great War and its being done again, but it’s cool now

[iron charm]

yeah yeah i agree with ur point

[leaden furnace]

The NCR are surely a beacon of hope and not a symbol of a failed ideology!

[ornate iris]

Why?

[atomic cedar]

We know Legion did control NV at some point before being pushed back by securitrons

However Courier doing legion playthrough is certainly not canon in any way

Unless the Courier is Kevinus

[iron charm]

shows going for a "what if courier was never there" route im afraid

[atomic cedar]

No we know Courier did show up

[leaden furnace]

If Bethesda had balls they’d have the NCR reinvent themselves using a totally new economic and political system but knowing them it’ll likely be kept the same or hopelessly vague

[iron charm]

as in the courier not having any meaningful effect on the mojave power struggle

[atomic cedar]

Courier got platinum chip to House and did... Something in the Lucky 38

[small flicker]

they’ve apparently reinvented themselves as paragons of hope based on how literally everyone speaks of them

[iron charm]

when i watch the show i just get the feeling that the courier wasj ust never involved with the 2bhd

[ashen sapphire]

because it's primitive

[ornate iris]

blades on the arms of power armor is primitive?

[small flicker]

it probably just fell to shit after the courier left its been a long time since the game

[atomic cedar]

The courier probably showed up, killed Benny then got the chip to House and left

[iron charm]

primitive doesnt mean its not effective

bayonets are still issued in the military

[ornate iris]

I'd argue its resourceful, not primitive

Hell it can be both like Kastro just said

[small flicker]

i still am of the opinion the courier finished the story before dipping and it fell apart after

[atomic cedar]

We know NCR power armor was held back to deal with raiders so probably that

[leaden furnace]

I think the problem here fundamentally is that none of the NV writers either had the knowledge or the cajones to establish a better way and I truthfully don’t think anyone at the wheel actually has super strong opinions on democracy or capitalism, so for as much as you’ll see the series displaying pre war capitalists as evil they’ll prop up their second coming as “hopeful”. There’s no actually consistent or insightful ideology present.

[atomic cedar]

They left it open that he really could have done any of the factions and then leaves at some point and everything fell apart afterwards

[iron charm]

https://www.military.com/history/british-soldiers-afghanistan-counterattacked-taliban-ambush-bayonet-charge.html

[leaden furnace]

The series is just thematically completely fucking vapid unless they commit to an actual idea that isn’t just being anti-“evil”

This goes for fallout as a whole too btw

[small flicker]

i mean tbf i dont think theres an interest to present a better way

[atomic cedar]

Again it's absolutely possible that Kevinus could be the Courier in a legion playthrough

[candid rose]

this is what happpened
but they won't say who he sided with

[iron charm]

if possible meant lottery odds then sure

[ornate iris]

People saying that the chicken fucker is courier 6 are slow

[atomic cedar]

The courier was never the same after getting shot in the head...

[small flicker]

legion and house are looking less likely than the others though imo

[ashen sapphire]

no one actually thinks that

[atomic cedar]

It's very clearly a joke

[ornate iris]

i'd hope not

[leaden furnace]

They either don’t want to because they believe that human nature is evil and we’re fucked because of that, they support the status quo more or less, or they just have no idea what to support. All of them kinda suck imo, though perhaps the human nature route has the most to explore.

[small flicker]

yeah because hes the chosen one

[ornate iris]

i didn't even realize that the protectron was meant to be fisto

you can barely see the colors

[real scroll]

He literally said he was FISTO

[candid badger]

Its just kind of spineless with the way its headed, the show does this very in depth criticism of capitalism but it only seems to be a thing on its face; given the fact that stuff said by Goggins in the pre war flashbacks like ‘but I dont see any value in an ideology that leads to bread lines.’

[ornate iris]

In the episode?

[real scroll]

Yeah

[small flicker]

yeah i think it is just meant to just be the cyclical nature of humanity, offering a fix kinda dampens the war never changes thing this ip coasts off of

[ashen sapphire]

yeah he literally said his acronym

[small flicker]

he says Fully Integrated Security Technetronic Officer active and reporting for duty.

[leaden furnace]

Yeah I mean I think you kind of have to accept that this show is just franchise slop. It’s only even giving anti-capitalist narratives the light of day because the series is known for doing this, not because the writers actually have strong ideological beliefs imo. At least collectively.

[ornate iris]

I don't memorize the sexbot acronyms

[atomic cedar]

Franchise slop and it's just the franchise

[leaden furnace]

Yes Fallout is slop, more at 11

[small flicker]

Fully
Integrated
Security
Technetronic
Officer

[candid badger]

I just don’t know why people are dying on the hill of a franchise that is going to get a squid game inspired show in its next installment

[ornate iris]

yeah i got it

[small flicker]

phew

[atomic cedar]

It's not that deep it's just a reality show themed around fallout lol

[small flicker]

what

[leaden furnace]

The series should focus on this more and come to some kind of conclusion instead of just passively accepting it to justify eternal faction conflicts then, imo. Because otherwise you’re just making vapid and ultimately meaningless narratives that exist for loot farming and settlement building.

[candid badger]

Thats kind of the issue man

[small flicker]

😬

[leaden furnace]

What

[small flicker]

I just don’t think that’s on the docket it’s like the hook for every new entry

[leaden furnace]

I don’t know what’s remotely interesting or satisfying about “human nature is evil and we’re all fucked because of it” on repeat ad-infinitum with new aesthetics each entry

[atomic cedar]

That's the point of fallout

[ornate iris]

Im glad the enclave actually feels like the shadow government

[small flicker]

yeah it kind of is

[atomic cedar]

People can't change even after a nuclear apocalypse

[ashen sapphire]

this guy thinks war changes

[ornate iris]

before we just knew they were but now it actually feels like it

[small flicker]

that’s not to say that i dont think our player characters to enact real change i fi think it’s possible but you’re just establishing a new status quo to probably be challenged later

[leaden furnace]

The point sucks then, and should have ended with 1 which encapsulates the point well enough, (although 1 allows you to interpret things much more positively regardless).

[ornate iris]

also the ahh ahh ahh ahh ahh might have been top 10 cinema of all time

[candid badger]

War never changes, men do, through the roads they walk CHUD.

[atomic cedar]

I think bro hates Fallout

[ashen sapphire]

what the fuck is the ahh ahh ahh ahh ahh

[ornate iris]

Balada de la trompeta

[leaden furnace]

Yeah I’ve started to take this redpill awhile ago

[small flicker]

oh the song

[leaden furnace]

Fallout mostly sucks, I just continue to engage because it’s a fun creative outlet and I like lore junk

[small flicker]

you stick with any fandom long enough you get jaded lmao

[candid badger]

I don’t think people would be as mad if half of the things were nuked or destroyed or killed if it wasn’t just made to soley fulfill an end goal of ‘desperation’ or something. Like the whole vault tec nuking shady sands getting completely tossed away in lieu of focusing on the Enclave

[ornate iris]

it didnt click to me that the calculations house was talking about with coop were applying to the part of giving Mr. Krabs the cold fusion until like a little bit after watching the episode

[leaden furnace]

It’s less to do with the fandom and more with just analyzing the series for what it’s worth and trying to say.

[ornate iris]

cant wait for episode 8

[ashen sapphire]

i can't wait for fallout 6 to have the NCR take control of the continental US and then fallout 7 will have the new china republic take control of continental china

then in fallout 8 they nuke each other and we start over

[leaden furnace]

This is Fallout’s message yeah

[small flicker]

yup

[ashen sapphire]

the second great war, 2477

[leaden furnace]

Beautiful. Deep. Insightful. Sage.

[small flicker]

im just here for fun worldbuilding

[ashen sapphire]

i can't wait for the second battle of anchorage

[leaden furnace]

That’s mostly why I’m here too yeah

[ornate iris]

i think ripping on season 2 before the whole season is out is a bit cheap

[median tulip]

the whole season is pretty much out and I’ve found it pretty mediocre

[leaden furnace]

I mean truthfully I have zero faith that anything I mentioned above will be addressed because this is a Amazon produced fallout show lol, but sure. There’s the .1% possibility they’ll commit to some greater ideal.

[atomic cedar]

What ideal

[leaden furnace]

What do you think I was talking about above

[atomic cedar]

The show shows multiple people that are good natured and wanting to do the right thing

[ornate iris]

the NCR hasnt been confirmed wiped out and they most likely arent considering the shady sands billboard claims its the first capital

[leaden furnace]

And? So does 1, so does every game. The critique on humanity isn’t that people can’t be good.

[median tulip]

the show is so morally ambiguous it always has me on the edge of my seat

[atomic cedar]

You're sort of just being vague I don't like that war war never changes

[candid rose]

||NCR will appear in next ep||

[ornate iris]

are you being sarcastic

[candid rose]

from leaks

[median tulip]

yes

[nimble anvil]

Bro can we close this thread? Every time I come in here it's a stupid argument unrelated to the actual episode 😭

[leaden furnace]

I dislike human nature=evil as a theme for this franchise because it sucks and isn’t conducive to storytelling long term. I believe they should commit to some kind of alternative for the status quo, whatever that is idrc. Just make it sincere. Don’t compromise your own critiques by supporting the faction that embodies it at the very least lmao.

[atomic cedar]

Again it shows there are good people that go against this

[leaden furnace]

Hopefully this makes it clear!

[candid badger]

Fallout isnt beating the ubermenschian allegations

[leaden furnace]

Not relevant as I just explained

[atomic cedar]

So what do you want

[median tulip]

I think it can actually be pretty insightful if they tackle the main theme properly. They don’t obviously.

[atomic cedar]

The whole dynamic between Lucy and the Ghoul is that Ghoul believes that everyone will fall to human nature and Lucy goes against that

[median tulip]

Lucy is a fucking idiot.

To be fair.

[leaden furnace]

Good people that solely exist to counter the status quo but don’t provide a viable alternative are just reactionary. This show, unless it severely subverts my expectations, will end like the rest of fallout does: there’s good people who do good things, but devastating conflict and inequality is inherent to our condition and cannot be solved. If you’re satisfied with that whatever, I’m just not impressed by it.

[atomic cedar]

Maximus entire arc this season is that

[candid badger]

Goggins only character trait has been making quips that vaguely hint at the greater ideology of the show which, like his quips, are almost completely incoherent

[leaden furnace]

Fallout 1 probably did it best yeah, but even then I think the underlying assumption it has about humanity can be seen as problematic.

[atomic cedar]

He leaves the BoS because they're evil and is going out of his way to try and do the right thing

[ashen sapphire]

same ones from gen spoilers?

[leaden furnace]

But problematic ideas can be tackled so idk, it’s whatever. Just would like to see the series buck it off.

[candid rose]

yes

[ashen sapphire]

who knows, they could just be extras

[candid rose]

why would extras be in freeside

[leaden furnace]

What does Maximus embody though lol. Restoring the NCR? What kind of solution is that. It just plays into the previously mentioned theme I mentioned, unless the writers believe liberal capitalist democracy is the solution, which also subverts their former critiques

[candid badger]

(they do)

[median tulip]

Fallout was never meant to be more than a game or two.

[candid rose]

we know that the Freeside set and Shady Sands is diffent places, so is the leak of the NCR soldiers on the street

[atomic cedar]

I think that's just a bad faith interpretation

[small flicker]

the master would’ve saved us

[leaden furnace]

How so

I agree!

[small flicker]

you’re a good lad

[median tulip]

the writers are obviously conveying some sort of message… they just really suck at it

[ashen sapphire]

🤷‍♂️

[median tulip]

it just works

[leaden furnace]

Idk I think it’s either the same slop as before or the writers endorsing an ideology the series actively makes fun of and criticizes at every turn. Maybe pre-war American should’ve just been a communist society or ancapistan lol.

Could work in that framework at least

[candid rose]

some extra said they filmed NCR marching to freeside

[median tulip]

this season has been a giant snooze fest and I don’t expect the finale to prove me wrong

[vivid ferry]

I’m going psycho on whoever wrote that shit.

[candid badger]

To think that the writers of the fallout show are selling a message that is pro communism is hopelessly naive, its just the typical shlock of an endless critique of capitalism without offering any solutions and then propping up the establishment neoliberal state as some kind of 'solution' under dubious pretenses

[atomic cedar]

Pre war America was always explicitly evil

[vivid ferry]

30 bucks the Finale is good.

[urban mantle]

NCR merch and wilzig questions are a start

[median tulip]

it will be entertaining… not good

[leaden furnace]

Yeah this is what I’ve been getting at. It’s meaningless drivel that just communicates to me the writers are cowards or clueless.

[atomic cedar]

When their propaganda is literally praising their soldiers for laughing while they execute prisoners

[urban mantle]

The fight sequences are a bit tame but we haven't reached the season's big twist yet I don't think

[vivid ferry]

So do you like the show or nah?

[lost stream]

Cancer

[candid badger]

It's just the Cyberpunk 2077 thing: CORPORATIONS ARE BAD! UNCHECKED CAPITALISM IS EVIL! but communism goes too far.. so thats.. you know.. uhh..

[leaden furnace]

Yeh this is core to my point actually

[vivid ferry]

I personally think the show since S1 is meh to alright.

[median tulip]

Yes. I do. I don’t think it’s a good show but it’s entertaining.

[ashen sapphire]

im starting to believe the remasters are actually coming

[urban mantle]

I haven't tried to gleam any political meaning from it lowkey

[vivid ferry]

I would prefer a remake that adds back cut content.

[leaden furnace]

This is how the show is meant to be enjoyed so

[candid badger]

This, but ATP you're better off not even trying

[leaden furnace]

Yeah just view it as more lore stuff essentially

[vivid ferry]

At least it’s not the Boys where it’s the most blatant “messaging” in your face

[median tulip]

the boys is fucking garbage

[leaden furnace]

Idk I think the show is pretty overt about it

[urban mantle]

Maybe in a few seasons we'll have some war doesn't change ass thesis but right now it's too detached from reality and personally focused for it to convey any statements imo

[ornate iris]

Barb saying war never changes after saying what wilzig told her to say didnt make sense to me

[median tulip]

It’s really best to just not think about what you’re watching. Just mindlessly enjoy it. Only way I can have a good watch LOL

[ornate iris]

oh shut up

[urban mantle]

I think it was just adding the tagline in

[vivid ferry]

Don’t think, just consume

[ornate iris]

fallout fandom might be top 10 worst and most miserable fandoms oat

[urban mantle]

It ties together her monologue pretty well imo

[leaden furnace]

That was pretentious but overall I think this is a great convo that should be had more

[median tulip]

I just get pissed off trying to make sense of the fallout show. I watch it for the funny dog and to see the logos of those funny factions I like

[ashen sapphire]

agreed

[high laurel]

what about Star Wars fans

[ornate iris]

the worst thing about the show for me is the nuking of shady sands and the legion having that tiny trench between them

[vivid ferry]

I don’t mean to glaze this thing for the fifth time, but Invasion of New Vegas is better written than the show with the way it handles actual base lore and factions

[ornate iris]

star wars fans are more justified

[paper junco]

what the hell is going on here, does anyone actually think things are made without any messages to them? like wtf?

[ashen sapphire]

more justified

[median tulip]

No. The show runners just aren’t good at making their message clear.

[leaden furnace]

At the same time though I do find it interesting that the show makes post-scarcity tech so integral to the plot. There’s the possibility of fixing our conflicts, but I suspect it will end up being used to provide a non-answer by it either being destroyed during war or continuing to incentivize more conflict like it currently is.

I don’t see cold fusion surviving past season 3 tbh, if it even survives next episode

[candid rose]

more ncr leak

[median tulip]

Looks more like a flashback scene

[vivid ferry]

Bro what the fuck they’re not even trying to hide it anymore

[urban mantle]

I think we'd need supplementary material to judge the fallout show's lore changes in their totality
The TV show gives us too narrow and focused a view compared to the games so we have to guess a lot about things that may have completely formulated but undeveloped explanations

[candid badger]

The truth is that there are two distinct ideologies that followed out of a conscious effort of divergence by Bethesda, the classic fallouts care very little about the pre-war united states, its about how post war societies form out of the ruins, its about larger themes and ideas, I am, and many others are more partial to this. BUT, Bethesdas ideology is different, im not going to say its worse, its just different, a lot of it is superficial, it looks the same, it has all of the things in it from many of the other fallouts, classic and new, but its ideology divergies into one that obsesses over pre-war america, obsesses over its relative state of disrepair and collapse, its moreso in the beginning stages of 'reconstruction' than the focus on a society that is already decently rigid

[ashen sapphire]

hopium has been injected

[candid rose]

it's funny, people have said "oh maybe it's a flashback scene" since before s2 launched, yet the only flashback we got was shady

[leaden furnace]

Idk I thought the lost battalion was an obvious setup for a finale appearance lmao

[silver falcon]

if we see a resurgent NCR im going to be extremely happy

[small flicker]

be hilarious to bring house back to kill him again by the end of the episode, this chat will be poisonous

[paper junco]

also people complaining about Maximus' character development - we're two seasons into a show, y'all. Take ANY show you've ever watched that was good at some point - Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, Lost, whatever else - step two seasons into the show and no shit, the character arc hasn't been finished. There's some growth, but no full arc yet.

[median tulip]

The NCR just magically showing up in force to the strip is just silly.

[candid badger]

its just two different ideologies and it only really makes sense that both sides mutually dislike each other

[zenith agate]

it would be so good 🙏

[icy turtle]

LMAO The folks believing the NCR is dead gonna be real salty when they find out they're wrong.

[urban mantle]

His arc is becoming the martial champion of the NCR trust

[small flicker]

two back to back ncr coming to save the day moments

[ashen sapphire]

i mean i agree but i was doubting it was gonna happen

[vivid ferry]

That’s one of my biggest issues with the show. I’m fine with “show not tell” but I feel like the Fallout show doesn’t do much to actually explain things. Like you’re supposed to understand half of the shit, but you have to play the games to do so.

For something built around the general audience, it feels like it refuses to actually introduce more from the games.

[candid rose]

why would we randomly get a flashback in the last ep

[median tulip]

Walter White had more character development in one season than any character in Fallout has had combined

[leaden furnace]

NCR is so awesome and cool and badass! Clap and cheer!

[ashen sapphire]

what is this comparison

[paper junco]

90% of this discussion has not been relevant to E7 in any way, also, not sure what everyone is here for

[silver falcon]

well EXCUSE US that we havent been given even an iota of the NCR actually being alive, we think that bethesda killed off the NCR

EXCUUUSE US

[urban mantle]

They're introducing a lot, they just seem to be taking a lot of things for granted surrounding exposition
Obviously they couldn't have us sit through a lesson on the fall of shady sands or something sadly

[limber egret]

One of the shows major themes is about holding onto morality in a place that tests it like the Wasteland, Maximus represents the middle between the Ghouls amorality and Lucy's rigid morality

[silver falcon]

and no im not counting the rangers we see in the mojave

[vivid ferry]

I think it’s kind of disingenuous now that I think about it. Like I just want an explanation for what happened to the rest of the NCR, not just have them show up in full force with not a lot of buildup.

[median tulip]

you could maybe read the message I’m replying to

[leaden furnace]

It’s related to the show’s themes. We’ve discussed aspects of episode 7 to reinforce the point. Don’t know why good convo’s should be de-incentivized anyways.

[atomic cedar]

I mean people already made up their minds about the Fallout show before even watching it

[median tulip]

you should praise the fallout show

[leaden furnace]

Yes don’t talk about Fallout’s core messaging just talk about theories ad-infinitum!

[silver falcon]

its slop, but its OUR slop and we're gonna keep watching it

[urban mantle]

Most likely explanation is that there are something like 20-40 different little moldavers dotting the southern wasteland

[ashen sapphire]

walter white is a solo protagonist

[candid rose]

well

[icy turtle]

I've said from the beginning, the show has always hinted at it - if you believed a former capital of 35k people being gone was gonna collapse a civilization of 1.1mil population, it was never gonna happen. All the territory in the show has been mostly around shady where it was bombed, and in the Mojave, where the NCR pulled out of.
The logic just doesn't track for me to assume they're gone, but to each their own.

[urban mantle]

And maybe a consolidated fragment in northern California

[leaden furnace]

Yeah I expect this to be the case

[vivid ferry]

So there was just an entire battalion waiting for the Legion to show up at the Strip?

[leaden furnace]

Just a bunch of scattered remnants

[median tulip]

that doesn’t change things in the way you think it does

[icy turtle]

I agree, but what I've always said when you and I have had our back and forths, was we probably won't get it, this season.

[spare shuttle]

did Vault Tec make America look superior to Canada if Vault 32 was that hostile?

[vivid ferry]

Maybe in the South, but it’d be dumb for the rest of the NCR to drop dead. Northern cities are intact, it’s common sense.

[urban mantle]

Maybe not waiting there
It's too bad we haven't heard anything else about the rangers and co, maybe that's how they'll be introduced next episode

[icy turtle]

This. ^

[candid rose]

all the ||ncr|| leaks

[silver falcon]

i get your point, but the main characters have traveled quite a bit through california and now the mojave, I get the fact that the mojave doesnt have any NCR presence except for the remnants we see, but california? but even a hint towards it except for the remnants trying to take cold fusion?

and now we're PROBABLY gonna see them in full force in the mojave for whatever reason?

[leaden furnace]

It would be but I’m not counting on the show to use logic as its primary driver.

[paper junco]

I'm not even sure we can call these new ones leaks at this point when it's just Pemberton's set video lol

[urban mantle]

NCR cities weren't adapted to surviving alone
There's a chance that there is still an NCR around vault city and that region, but it probably wouldn't be the NCR we know any more of there is

[candid rose]

the last one isn't!

[vivid ferry]

Again, one of my biggest complaints with the show is the implication of killing the biggest faction in Fallout in the worst way possible.

[leaden furnace]

I think part of the plot going forward will be reforming the NCR so having an established large NCR faction probably subverts that.

[limber egret]

I think the gears are already turning to change the narrative from "show bad because NCR is treated badly" to "show bad because the NCR is treated as too good"

[icy turtle]

They didn't travel through main NCR roads. They didn't go along the Long 15, or go through NCR territories, the show openly says that.
Ma June literally says that Lucy went through Khan territory, and Coop and Lucy track Hank through the most obscure, non-traveled road through and to Vegas.
So again, why would the NCR specifically be in any of those places?

[paper junco]

This really does 100% point to the 'NCR and Legion both march on the strip in a montage though' more than anything else we've seen.

[icy turtle]

Oh, 100%, it's been happening in the past few days.

[silver falcon]

it just seems odd strategially that the NCR would go onto new vegas without securing.. you know, california?

[candid rose]

nah it's a flashback

[ashen sapphire]

rodriguez and presumably the other ranger in their camp wasn't captured by hank, so i assume they found the battalion

[median tulip]

you’d only get that from NCR dogmatists

[atomic cedar]

People have a tendency to treat the NCR as the perfect good faction when in reality theyre pretty bad but people only like them because they don't actively enslave people

[vivid ferry]

So, you seem to be implying there isn’t a NCR military presence further North. Also, what’s stopping the election of more officials? Or creating a military junta interim government?

[limber egret]

It's the battalion that Rodriguez mentioned in episode 3

[ashen sapphire]

and they're trying to go rescue biff or something

[urban mantle]

Then Again, we've also seen camp golf and Vegas, both of which would still be of strategic value if they were engaged with the legion (and the legion certainly seems to think they still are)

[leaden furnace]

The latter point is completely valid actually and has been the case since season 1. Many fans took the nuking of the NCR in S1 too personally and forgoes looking at what the show was actually presenting them as.

[vivid ferry]

Sorry, what?

[candid rose]

im joking

[leaden furnace]

Because it was never about villainizing them

[vivid ferry]

Oh okay, because you know a lot so I thought you were dead serious

[paper junco]

okay, I was about to say....uhh

[median tulip]

it’s shitty writing dude

[limber egret]

Or they let their "Todd Howard personally hates New Vegas" brainrot blind them some of the most obvious foreshadowing imaginable

[candid rose]

someone else was saying it here earlier

[leaden furnace]

This too

[icy turtle]

What parts of Cali have we see in the show? Definitely not NorCal, or SoCal. At best it's been a mild shot of the coast near the vaults. The Legion openly says they're at War with the NCR, still. So again, the show has constantly said hints that the NCR is still around. I've yet to see a proper shred of logic showing that again, a faction of 1.1mil pop would collpase, just because we're not seeing them in old territory they've evidently lost.

Which btw is mentioned so much in Vegas that the NCR's expansionist mindset and annexations will cost them in the long run.

[ornate iris]

I've seen people complaining about the NCR being shown as the heroes and good guys but I don't really get that

[ashen sapphire]

you can't satisfy everyone 🤷‍♂️

[urban mantle]

They could do these things but we also know that the brotherhood has gained a lot of ground in California since shady sands, which most likely means the brotherhood war entered a renewed period of violence which would not serve an already exhausted and stunned NCR very well
I'm not saying they can't have a military presence in the north, just that the NCR as the behemoth we know is probably no longer that vast and unified

[silver falcon]

me when the good guys are shown as the good guys

😱

[ornate iris]

They haven't been shown as heroes and good guys

[median tulip]

they weren’t really depicted as the good guys in new vegas… and certainly not by the residents of the Mojave

[leaden furnace]

The NCR being framed as the only viable way forward has been an issue since NV really but the show goes all in on them being the last great hope. They’ve been remarkably positive in portrayal.

[vivid ferry]

An argument I’ve heard is that the rest of the NCR states simply decided to secede after Shady Sands was nuked because “they didn’t want to join the NCR willingly” or some shit like that

[sterile coral]

Eh, there'll always be time next season or what have ya to flesh the NCR out a bit more and introduce the normies to their greyer aspects.

[ornate iris]

How have they been shown as the only viable way forwards

[icy turtle]

Lol now that's a take. I'd be curious to delve into that, more.

[limber egret]

Also I disagree that it was about villainizing them, much of that discourse that formed around the NCR in the show from was fueled by the idea that the NCR represents progress and civilization, it was never about the NCR being morally grey

[urban mantle]

Don't know what you've got until it's taken away
They'd probably be examining the flaws of the NCR if there was an NCR to examine

[sterile coral]

Said flaws are also leagues more tolerable than the Legion, Enclave, or even the Brotherhood out East.

[leaden furnace]

Because they have no alternatives, and are prosperous in comparison to everyone else. Every depiction of them in the series has portrayed them as a progressive and positive influence that was subverted by the villains lol. The closest to a negative the show has acknowledged are taxes and part of the Boneyard being shitty.

[limber egret]

It was very much the idea that the NCR represented the "old fallout" that Bethesda was trying to destroy

[urban mantle]

I think the NCR is just being viewed as a better way forward by the main characters we've seen so far, not necessarily as good

[icy turtle]

Yeah, the NCR flaws are ones you can somewhat deal with, other factions - not so much, their punishments and dogma are much more extreme.

[urban mantle]

After all moldaver wasn't using the legion's name and flag