#Is the rotation discarding ally nation play styles?

84 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

jade sigil
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While I generally approve of rotation choices, one thing concerns me a lot : that resistance and alpines seems to be hit much much harder than main nations. Resistance lost Viva la resistance and liberation, which makes arming the resistance a joke cuz nothing left to arm. Alpine lost 2 core specials and 1 core limited, and the two Alpine from sov and jap got removed as well(thou for good reasons), it really makes people wonder if 1939 "want to delete Alpine completely" since** Alpine is all about strength in numbers**. Not to mention the death of Mare, which is the reason why Italy ally control exists in the first place.

Probably this amplified impact comes from the fact that there are only a handful of useful fr/Italy cards to begin with. But I think rationalizing doesn't answer the 2 questions below:

  1. Will we get Alpine stuff to keep the archetype afloat in the expansion?
  2. As content cycle now aim to keep the total number of playable cards constant, there will be points where entire mechanisms like resistance or Alpine get obsolete. Even with compensation, there're still going to be cards that are rendered useless but not rotated out. (Imagine rotating supply chain but not betty) Will we get a warning few months beforehand? Since that's about the time a f2p need to put together a decent deck.

Sincerely
AYIM

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Given the number of Italy cards we're getting, it's easy to assume that Alpine is dead with nails on the coffin

copper lark
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Alpine is not a mechanic that will really be killed I think

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Maybe for an expansion or 2, but they'll prob elaborate on it in some expansion

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Resistence on the other hand, that one might actually be dead

scarlet shuttle
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Alpine will be joining the shit curve club with ramp due to the lost of all of its 2k pieces.

mint zephyr
azure wasp
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Some decks that are being rotated will come back - remember, in future rotation rounds 20 or so cards will come back from the Reserve Pool
I think Alpine is going to be one of these decks, but I wouldn't hold my breath for Resistance

celest relic
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Resistance is a mechanic that just has no room to grow

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keep in mind we have not seen an actual card that directly reference resistance since their introduction 5 years ago

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the best that was managed was cards like Phoney War that assisted the deck but even then we also see the results of what that causes (things like Japan Resistance and generally decks that stall and play a very uninteractive game)

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seeing as a lot of cards related to stalling or non board interaction are rotating (discard, mass pins, and other stall) it makes sense that resistance pretty much is rotated and then not touched again

jade sigil
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that's quite a shame. Resistance mechanism can and should be expanded further. Additional play styles are always good even if they're non-interactive.

celest relic
broken zodiac
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What does non interactive mean in that context?

celest relic
broken zodiac
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The general consensus here seems to be that anything not being two tanks ramming into eachother = non interactive

celest relic
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Think like decks using scorched earth

broken zodiac
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But that's directly interacting with the board, i think unit combat centric is the word here

celest relic
broken zodiac
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This rotation makes me scared that it is

celest relic
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Decks like control are fine and will continue to be supported

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It’s just the decks that essentially sit there never playing a unit then winning because the enemy couldn’t kill them are being cut down

broken zodiac
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Sad

celest relic
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Since those decks are very all or nothing meta wise

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See like Japan Resistance where it was harshly killed after breaking into tier 1

broken zodiac
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That's just the case of a deck being overturned though

celest relic
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Because decks like that being good severely impact the game health since it encourages everyone to not focus on board

broken zodiac
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I think there's a difference between them being viable to them being meta shaping. There's brit jp pin, otk decks, ger burn at the moment and they exist and are not oppressive at all, yet all tools for that sort of playstyle are being removed

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I mean I understand the expansion is ground unit based and you don't want the meta to be the new stuff vs 3x scorched earth decks

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It's just a stylistic choice I'm very sad about because it seems to remove everything I enjoy from this game

celest relic
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Keep in mind they aren’t being removed

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It’s just going to the extended format

broken zodiac
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Which is not competitively supported

celest relic
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So you can still play with it as you wish

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That is true

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In the end the devs have essentially made the decision to remove the stall decks from the main format. Which I argue is for the best because they overall go against a lot of ideas that the game encourages. There will still be control that can do stuff like discard but you just won’t have decks using scorched earth, never play a unit, the combo off turn 9 and win

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Which is extremely frustrating for people that go against it due to how it feels like one doesn’t even get a chance to play the game

broken zodiac
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I am very happy most interactive and skillful mechanic unconditional discard will remain in the game yes

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I mean no offense to you or anything , just discussing preferences here

celest relic
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Of course

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It’s something that people will disagree with based on personal deck preferences

broken zodiac
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Yeah totally, it's just something to accept and move on, I'm still open to see how it'll play

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But I think the disappointment is understandable of having the favorite parts of your main game being taken away

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In a more objective sense, I do believe that by removing that avenue of play the game loses a lot of appeal. Something I think is a big strong point about Kards is the diversity in decks you can run and it's the main point I usually talk about when talking positively about it. It becoming the 'soldiers and tanks' war game will throw it into more of a niche than it already is imo

celest relic
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It’s is understandable but I would also say that these decks still exist in some form

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Like France has found the more forgiving position of control that works against large hands

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See like Defense in Depth and Phoney War

broken zodiac
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There's still a lot of cards to be revealed but seeing the trend of it it will come down to regular aggro/midrange vs control operating with guards and board clears etc

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No alternative win condition shenanigans

celest relic
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Most of the combos and ways to OTK remain intact

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It’s just that trying to make a deck that is all focused on stalking to the win con isn’t very possible

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Or it at least will need to change itself up notably

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But like I think people that like resistance will still have decks they will find enjoyable

broken zodiac
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Every essential support card for the archetype to work on a decent competitive level are gone

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But yeah there might yet be a way to play some toxic bs

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I will certainly be trying my hardest

celest relic
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You can still probably find new ways to do that

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There is always gonna be some deck that does that

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But in the end those decks somewhat poison the game if they are good. And it’s why you often see so little support for those decks

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Remember it’s been 5 years since resistance got a card that directly works with it

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And that is because giving the deck any support likely means nerfing it when it gets good
So it’s easier and better for those that enjoy it to shuffle into the extended format where they can play and enjoy it without having to worry about the devs nerfing the deck because someone made one competitive

celest relic
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and I should mention we will probably see new cards that feed into decks like resistance similar to Phoney War and Defend in Depth so those decks once rotated will also gain more tools by the nature of the devs supporting like French control themes

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and the devs won't have to worry about "does this make resistance to strong" so we may see even stronger support for the deck with this

next fulcrum
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ALPINE!

scarlet shuttle
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Why is France control a thing for a nation that didn't last very long

celest relic
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because kards is an abstract card game

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it's the same reason like a tank can somehow defend itself and kill a fighter or whatever

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but France also was known for a more defensive nature due to the Maginot Line and general slow reponse

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so fitting that idea of a defensive nation is where french control comes from

scarlet shuttle
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copium

celest relic
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one could question why Italian control in the same logic then lol
Since they barely lasted until 1943

scarlet shuttle
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they resisted bitterly against the British in East Africa and truly deserving of the control label 😎

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the French sent all their troops to the low countries and flop down and died

celest relic
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"bitterly" as in surrendering until the Germans bailed them out 😏

scarlet shuttle
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They still controled Libya alright

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Guess who was in Paris 😏

celest relic
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Italy 0.00000001 seconds after the allies land in Italy

scarlet shuttle
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Is that why it took until 1945?

celest relic
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To kick the Germans out of Italy sure

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But Italy collapsed immediately

scarlet shuttle
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Nah. Italy graciously allowed itself to align with the allies Lad