Is it time for Kards to have Unit minimums? | KARDS | Page 1

hexed escarp Mar 18, 2023, 9:34 AM

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Question:
What do the following Archetypes have in common?
A. Resistance?
B. Soviet or German Control?
C. Kredit or Card Denial?
D. British Commandos?

__Answer: __
-They all tend to run Very Few Units (5-8 typically)
-They all tend to run Tons of Orders/Countermeasures (30+)
-They are Toxic, and Frustrating to play against, especially for new players and may even drive them away.
A. hand gets too full, too quickly
B. no units to interact with, and every unit you put down gets insta-removed
C. one side doesn't even get to play the game
D. no unit interaction and the orders snowball quick
-They make for Piss Poor e-sports (easy one-sided snowballs, boring to watch, minimal unit interplay, minimal strategy as cards play themselves)

Suggestion:
-with Kards Mobile coming, and Kards e-sports trying to build up, now would be the perfect time to address this issue
-the problem with balancing an Archetype, is there are too many Orders available to Maximize the Efficiency of any Archetype, to the point of quick and easy snowballs. These 4 Archetypes do it very well
-Kards could try balancing a few cards from each Archetype, but I believe a more Permanent and Robust solution, would be considering a UNIT MINIMUM, or in other words a NON-UNIT MAXIMUM, for All Decks going forward

Implementation
-I think a 12 UNIT (Inf, Art, Tank, Ftr, Bmr) MINIMUM would keep these Archetypes viable, while not being so Frustrating/Boring/Toxic to play against, and keep the match as an e-sport Entertaining
-a case could be made for a 10 UNIT MINIMUM but I don't believe it goes far enough
-the Deck Builder could just set a NON-UNIT (HQ, Order, Countermeasure) MAXIMUM of 28 (or possibly 30 if thinking 10 UNIT MINIMUM) just like it sets an ALLY MAXIMUM of 12. Again, I prefer 28 here as it flows nicer (Maximum 28 Non-Units, and 12 Allies for the 40-card Deck)

Thoughts?
Do you think there should be a UNIT MINIMUM?
If so, should it be 10 UNITS or 12 UNITS?

tacit sigil Mar 18, 2023, 9:36 AM

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I'm sorry to tell you but there are Kredit Denial decks that run 14 units.

hexed escarp Mar 18, 2023, 9:43 AM

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Oh I believe you, but speaking more generalities. For Kredit Denial, the card Southern Plan is incredibly broken (in combination with Oberver Corps). If opponent draws both of those early it's pretty much game over.

long merlin Mar 18, 2023, 9:56 AM

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Imo almost any powerful strategy can be frustrating(accept Frontline, they are cool). But restricting deck creation I don't think is the way to make them less frustrating.

vivid osprey Mar 18, 2023, 10:32 AM

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I totally agree with the 'unFun' of denial and discard. I really hope the Game Designers are thinking hard about how that works. I compare to Marvel Snap, where Discard primarily affects your Own Deck, not the Opponent. That said, I think it's a matter of phasing out the cards that behave this way, more than adding more rules.

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"one side doesn't even get to play the game" - that really is painful. When a Player loses Agency, how can it be Fun?

cyan granite Mar 18, 2023, 11:48 AM

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I don't know what German or Soviet control decks you are playing against but they both run a ton of units. Like Soviets are definitely at least 50/50

wraith coral Mar 18, 2023, 2:07 PM

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Personally KD is my fav archetype, nerf resistance and discard if you must but leave KD alone please 😆

tacit sigil Mar 18, 2023, 2:10 PM

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Observer Corp to 2k

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Southern Plen to 5k

hearty portal Mar 18, 2023, 2:36 PM

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any deck can be unfun to fight

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brit air runs a ton of units but if you arent control you can eat shit

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soviet arty is also pretty anti unit and runs almost all units

iron imp Mar 18, 2023, 5:10 PM

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Nerf specific cards instead of imposing very harsh limits. There are also many bad order only decks.

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And it wouldn't even affect half the decks listed

hexed escarp Mar 18, 2023, 5:18 PM

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Sorry guys.
Just really enjoying the game and thought I'd throw out an idea to make it better long-term

I realize there are exceptions where some of these Archetypes will have a lot of Units still, and those are fine... no problem facing those decks, and the more Viable Archetypes the better

I was more specifically referring to these Archetypes WHEN they use only 5-8 Units (lots of builds with ONLY this many), and then what I mention more Accurately applies

As a fan of strategy games in general, I just never like seeing a game already decided with a foregone conclusion within the first 4 or so turns or when one player is Completely Unable to play

Matchups should be less Rock-Paper-Scissors where one deck Automatically beats another (at least make it competitive)

Watching the OCCs, the best games involve more closely even matches, with a lot of unit interplay and decision making, and nailbiting, tense finishes.

It's just been my observation that these Low Unit decks make that very unlikely (in addition to being Not Fun to play against)

iron imp Mar 18, 2023, 5:20 PM

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this rule would actually make an old light infantry deck I have saved illegal

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and nerfing that for example is completely unnecessary and not within the intent of the suggestion, while Soviet control and German control are unaffected

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like if you wanna nerf German control, I'd just nerf Wolfpack and Leopold for example instead

hexed escarp Mar 18, 2023, 5:27 PM

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Would it kill the Deck though to have 1 (or 3) more units? It would still be fairly playable with just less likelihood of snowballing against an opponent TOO fast

I guess what I'm saying is I think a Unit minimum (or Order/CM Maximum) would make for a less "snowball-y" deck, and so Victory or Defeat is less on a knife's edge, with a lot more room for strategy and tactics in between.

iron imp Mar 18, 2023, 5:33 PM

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Would it kill the Deck though to have 1 (or 3) more units? It would still be fairly playable with just less likelihood of snowballing against an opponent TOO fast
it's not even particularly good, so this change would make an already bad deck that plays dozens of units even more limited

If the concern is snowbally decks, I don't think that's limited to control or combo decks. Jaggro for example is really snowbally and often ends games before turn 6, and that runs 37 units.

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I think just nerf the cards that are perceived to be particularly uninteractive like Wolfpack, Southern Plan, Observer Corps

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or cards that are overpowered in general like 1st Rifles

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also I find control matchups can be very skill based and pretty even too

hexed escarp Mar 18, 2023, 8:10 PM

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I agree about the control matchups, but I'm sure you've been involved in games where it's just been POP-POP-POP for one side every turn, or both sides just sit and wait because either you don't just wanna get popped or you have nothing to play your card on.

Nerfing the uninteractive or OP cards would help, but also perhaps more cards that punish a Unitless board / Low-Unit Deck / High-Order Deck would help balance things out as well, particularly for the Archetypes that use more units. Note: this would not be about increasing their power (eg. Jap Aggro, Ger/US Frontline), but more about giving them answers to the Low Unit Archetypes mentioned in the Opening Post

wispy vigil Mar 18, 2023, 8:23 PM

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well by giving them such answers in what is supposed to be an unfavorable matchup is still increasing their power

#Is it time for Kards to have Unit minimums?