Live2D doesn't use my RAM(?)

[ocean talon]

I have 48GB of RAM, i upgraded my RAMs just so i can use Live2D with less lag and freezing. While I'm mesing parts of the model, After a while, Live2D starts to lag A LOT. I have to wait at least 10-15 seconds every time i put a dot down. But when i check the Task Manager, it shows that Live2D is only using 2G of my RAM, It never passes 2G. I upgraded my RAMs just for Live2D and searched for a solution on the net, but couldn't come up with anything. How do i let Live2D use more of my RAM so i don't have to wait? It takes so much time for me to hand-mesh important parts and it affects how fast i finish a commission.

[floral heart]

is the RAM used normally in other software or is this a general PC issue

[ocean talon]

I play games around and do 3D Modelling sometimes, never had this issue, But Live2D for some reason never seems to pass 2G, i had 16G RAM before i upgraded to 48, And it still never passed 2G RAM usage

Even Opera uses more RAM than Live2D sometimes, but Live2D never seems to use more than 2G

[floral heart]

do you see any errors in the log?

[ocean talon]

Let me check,,

[floral heart]

actually
is there a chance you're on a 32bit system

[ocean talon]

No

[floral heart]

maybe the live2d or java is somehow running on 32bit, I know java on 32bit is capped at 2GB memory

[ocean talon]

Hmm, i can check on that, Also i can't see any errors on the Log, only some warnings about the auto backup save(?)

[floral heart]

can you go to command prompt and write
java -version

and see if it shows 32bit or 64bit

[floral heart]

I'm out of ideas then sorry :(

[ocean talon]

I've just realised, my Java is KINDA out dated, i'l ltry to update my Java and see if that changes anything..

[floral heart]

oh true LOL I didn't even realize your java is 9 years old holy

[ocean talon]

I didn't even had this pc for that long...

I'm very confused..

Ok it seems like i've downloaded the old version years ago for Minecraft I just updated and restarted my pc, now i'll see if the problem continues

Now it seems to be stuck at 1G

I double checked if the Java updated and it did

[floral heart]

how did it manage to become worse

😭

[ocean talon]

I actually don't know 💀

I even changed the priority to High from Normal on Task Manager hoping it would change something

Ok so someone on the Forum had a similar issue, their Live2D only used 234MB, i'm checking if they had a fix for that

[ocean talon]

Well, It seems like a Java issue, and the fix looks quite simple, I have to change the min size and max size of usable memory that java and windows allows (I think?) but for some reason in my advanced settings i don't have the JAVA_ARGS , so i can't change the min / max size ;;

so rn i'm trying to find what am i suppose to do

[ocean talon]

Ok even if it said 64-bit Server VM It seems like my java IS 32 bits. I'll delete Java completely and re-install the correct version to see if it changes anything..

[floral heart]

Sadly I'm not really super well-versed in this sort of technical stuff to help you figure this out 😭

but at least I knew enough to suggest that it could be Java running in 32bit so I pointed you in the right direction

[ocean talon]

No worries! I'm also very confused and have no idea what im doing

[ocean talon]

Yes! and it did helped a lot!

[ocean talon]

downloading the new version hasn't changed anything, i'll post on the Live2D forum to see if i can get any help from the admins

[unreal mortar]

question, is this lag only happening with all models or only one?

like have you tested with multiple models?

[ocean talon]

I've been having this issue with all my models, i tought it was because 16G RAM wasn't enough for big models since my friend's Live2D was using around 30G, i upgraded my ram, but it didn't solved the issue, then i realised my Live2D never used more than 2G

on my end, it looks like a java problem, i've re-installed the new version, i just added a runtime parameter and set max of 20G ram, i'll try to see if it will change anything

[ivory pagoda]

does all your models have more less the same canvas size or MB weight?

[ocean talon]

I don't think so, but even so, the lag is clearly because Live2D is refusing to use more than 2G ram,

in this case after updating the java, it's capped at 1.57G

I can't seem to get Live2D use more than 2G and its lagging after it caps around 2G Ram

[ivory pagoda]

i asked because, if your normal models are around lets say 300mb normaly [[or your live2d file size]]
then that can also be an issue

having a lot of ram doesnt really change much on how live2D works

[ocean talon]

Hmm, i see. But again, I tried to use the same file my friends used, Same Model, Same Live2D file, their live2d was using around 30-35G RAM while mine used 2 at Best

[ivory pagoda]

they have been people that changed from 32GB to 64GB and said there was no diference on how live2d worked

[ocean talon]

i don't have any issues while using other parts of Live2D, but exporting and meshing seems to Lag alot on my end, my pc is a decent build, (Similar to the friend i had mentioned, the only differance is our GPU)

[ivory pagoda]

only exporting and meshing?

[[also are you on 5?]

[ocean talon]

well, i've changed from 16 to 48, and again, the mentioned friend's Live2D seems to use More Ram and less lag then mine

[ocean talon]

as far as i can see, yes, on the model view theres little to no lag

[ocean talon]

I had the same problem around 4.x updates, and right now i'm on 5 yes

still have the same issue

[ivory pagoda]

i know 5 lags if you dont turn something off [[cant remember what as i am not using 5]]

🤔 the fact you say its only when export or mesh is very curious...
it make me think on, big atlases, very detailed meshes if you are doing them manualy, the posibility of procreate psd, model issues like big id on glue or using skinning and blenshapes

i feel if it was live2d ram issue, it would be everytime, but as it is only on those 2 scenarios... thats curious

[ocean talon]

Only differance i have rn is 4.x Caps at 4G and 5.0 caps at 2G

[ocean talon]

I've seen some people having the same problems on the Live2d forum, i've checked some of the forum posts and they had similar fixes, but on my end i wasn't able to proceed with the fix because i didn't had some of the settings they had(?)

[ocean talon]

well the Lag is the problem on the 2 scenarios, the capping issue never changes

whatever i do, i can't get live2d to use more than 2g of ram

[ivory pagoda]

yeah but those are very specific scenarios

what i mean live2d lagging everytime would be like even clicking a layer or moving a parameter would cause lag

thats why i felt it as a "very curious" that is very specific sccenario only

[ocean talon]

it does, but they are minor, like 1-2 seconds

when i click on the meshing tool, it takes around 10-20 seconds to get to the meshing mode, and every time i click to put down a point i have to at least wait around 20 seconds for it to actually do anything

[ivory pagoda]

question

do you do atlas at start working or at the end when you managed to finish everything?

also another question
when you drop a psd,do you get any "choose " preview window option?

[ocean talon]

on the model i did on 4.x~ I did the atlas before i started meshing, this time, i haven't did the atlas and decided i would do after the meshing is done, / and yes, i worken on 1/4 prewiev on the old model i was working on (4.x) but on this one, since the file is much more smaller (it's a chibi model, not a full one) i'm working with 1/2, But again, i know the preview scale affect how much Live2D puts strain on your pc, it's still a mistery to me that Live2D is literally refusing to use more than 2g ram

Because again, i had at least 2 friends try to play around with the same Live2D file on 5.0 update, both had no issues, their Live2D didn't capped and used around 15-30G ram

[ivory pagoda]

i think... your psd's are maybe too big too

[ocean talon]

while mine is still around 2G and very Laggy

[ivory pagoda]

wich is not helping with the live2d cap

[ocean talon]

i would assume that if my friends didn't tested the same file

[ivory pagoda]

they are not procreate right?

whats the common MB size of them? [[and canvases?}}

also what are the common atlas sizes you use?

i know that maybe i cant help with the cap of the ram BUT, the fact you get the preview choose window on them is also a signal 🤔

[ocean talon]

I haven't checked, but hear me out, I saved the PSD and the CMO3 file, send them to both friends, (one of them has almost the same pc specs as mine) They had used the same CMO3 File (which was ALREADY MESHED) and tried to add more meshing, no Lags, no problems, same preview settings, same atlas, everything, I was the only one who had this issue while testing

[ocean talon]

I know that the size of the PSD and canvas size does affect the performance of Live2D, but again, this doesnt explain the main problem which is Live2D not using more than 2G

[ivory pagoda]

I am sorry

i will not bother, sorry

[ocean talon]

No need to be sorry! thank you for trying to help

[dreamy owl]

https://community.live2d.com/discussion/1255/processing-was-interrupted-due-to-insufficient-memory

Have you tried that suggestion?

I'm suspecting your Windows system variable settings is restricting Java RAM usage globally

Quite possibly because you have other Java program making that override settings

[ocean talon]

Yes, i've searched the community forum, and sadly, I don't have this Variable on my end, i searched on the internet for other solutions, came across some videos like this one (https://youtu.be/x75szwof54w) and tried multiple solutions to change my HeapSize, none of it worked

I was about to post on the community forum for more help

[ocean talon]

I'm at leats %90 sure thats the problem, but for some reason i can't change the way it caps my ram

[dreamy owl]

there's also other place where you can change this variable specific to Live2D

https://docs.live2d.com/4.2/en/cubism-editor-manual/memory-usage/

[ocean talon]

Oh, let me try

I think i've found the issue here

nope, it's not even going up to 1G now

[dreamy owl]

what's the edit you made?

[ocean talon]

I'm making a chibi model, and with every Troubleshoot, i go up to the meshing mode where i left on the hair (It's half-way done meshing) and put at least a couple dots down to see how long it will take, i still need to wait around 20 seconds for it to register the mesh i put down

I had the similar issue on 4.x updates, but it was capped around 5G, This is my first time using 5.0, At start it was capped at 2G, but with every troubleshoot we've done, it went down

[dreamy owl]

oh i mean what changes you made to this

[ocean talon]

oh, I have around 48G RAM so i've changed it to 20000

[dreamy owl]

can you screenshot them?

the whole 3 lines

[ocean talon]

yes, please give me a second ^^

[dreamy owl]

oh its still commented out so that line is not being read

remove the 'rem' on both lines and add 'rem' on the third line

[ocean talon]

Like this?

[dreamy owl]

yes remove the 2nd line as well

and add rem on the third line, turning it green

[ocean talon]

I'm sorry if i'm wrong i have no idea what i'm doing

[ocean talon]

is this right?

[dreamy owl]

yep that looks ok

may wants to remove single space on beginning of those each lines but i don't think it's affecting that much

[ocean talon]

Still capped at 820 💀

I don't know why it's getting worse each time but it lags worse everytime it caps lower

[dreamy owl]

curious do you have other Java based apps installed on your system?

you mentioned Minecraft

[ocean talon]

As far as i know, Minecraft is the only one..?

I have no idea how java works..

[dreamy owl]

pure Minecraft or modded one? I'm thinking if you installed some performance mods or tweaks that may have stored system wide settings to make game RAM usage lower, sort of

[ocean talon]

I'm omw to delete my mods give me a sec

[dreamy owl]

if that doesn't work try uninstall the whole game

[ocean talon]

already did, deleted the folder as well..

[dreamy owl]

and if you see Java JDK runtime on your programs list try uninstall it as well

[ivory pagoda]

is it normal to show like that instead of Java(TM) platform SE binary?

i just noticed is the first time i see it without the java logo/name thing

[ocean talon]

I only have these

[ivory pagoda]

for me for example always shows like this
i tried to google your named and it looks to be a complement for java... i dont know if its a necesity complement? like... if you had even try java without it?

implementation*** sorry

[ocean talon]

So umm, I always tested on the same file after every troubleshoot, A friend of mine suggested me to open a new file, (I used a different model) I automeshed EVERYTHING at once, then started hand meshing around to see if it would lag. It's capped at 2.7G, but its LESS laggy, I will try to open a new cmo3 file with the model i'm suppose to work with and see if it lags again..

[ocean talon]

I downloaded the other one while i was trying to fix everything, i didn't had it till today

The friend i mentioned downloaded the same version, They easily see 15G~ while meshing

[ivory pagoda]

ohhh ok, i just got the idea that maybe could be a posibility that implementation could be doing something [[you know sometimes things doesnt install well for no reason]]

[ocean talon]

This is how much i got on my other model, i'll try to open a new project with the model I'm supposed to work with and see.. If it works all my meshing work...will be useless

[ocean talon]

yeah tru

Decided to open a whole new project to see if it would do anything different, I haven't even opened the PSD yet (on the resolution scale window) and i saw 3G right ahead

thats good news i think?

I'm trying to transfer meshes to see if i get any lag

[dreamy owl]

it's a new one in 5.0, they're switching to OpenJDK from Java's own

[dreamy owl]

from 1G cap i guess that's an improvement

[dreamy owl]

did you just delete minecraft or did you uninstall these two as well?

[ocean talon]

Yes for sure, i'm suprised, The other file is still caped at 1G but has less lag God knows how, i'm copy-pasting the meshes to save time but it's around 4.5G rn

[ocean talon]

those are the only java i had, i've downloaded them myself while troubleshooting, I did deleted the whole minecraft app and the files tho

[dreamy owl]

okay so i guess Minecraft is the culprit?

[ocean talon]

Have 2 Files open rn ( 1 old cmo3 File, 1 new cmo3file with the same PSD ) and it seems to be doing ok?

[quaint fable]

I'm eating dinner, but let me get live 2d open and see. I've gotten it to use 60 GB of Ram, but haven't used 5

[ocean talon]

I feel betrayed

[dreamy owl]

lesson learned: live2d riggers shouldnt play minecraft

[ocean talon]

I don't think its about 5, i've seen my friend use 30-45 with 5.0

[ocean talon]

💀

I'm gonna transfer the meshes and see how its gonna act just in case

[quaint fable]

Yeah, I opened up a model and this is on my new PC that I have cleaned installed windows on
I have not done the two memory modifications above (the system variable and the .bat file)

Let me try 4.2

[ocean talon]

damn

I might have to just reset my whole pc, i already was thinking about it to clear some space and stuff, might as well just do it and hope it will fix this issue too

[quaint fable]

I also don't have java installed either. I believe Java is baked into Live2D now Nevermind, I had it installed, but 64 bit. Same Update 381 as yours.

4.2 is roughly the same 40ish GB.
Though, I have 128GB of RAM

[dreamy owl]

i was thinking one of Minecraft mods caused it

technically pure MC shouldn't interfere with other apps..

[ocean talon]

well i'm still capped around 3-4 and getting lags back as i transfer the meshes from the other file

I was thinking about formatting my pc to get rid of stuff, i might just format it and see if it changes anything

cuz again, i litterally have 48G ram i should AT LEAST be able to use more than 5 without problem

[quaint fable]

make sure to deactivate your live2D key before you do so

That's correct, even on my old PC with 32GB of RAM, Live2D would use it all

[ocean talon]

thanks for the reminder!

[ocean talon]

Yeah, i have another rigger friend with around 45G, they easily see around 30G with no lag what so ever

[storm raven]

Might be dum question but are there RAM drivers?

[quaint fable]

Not really, but you can limit RAM in BIOS

Or provision RAM to be for iGPU use only (if CPU has a iGPU)

[ocean talon]

I might check my BIOS as i format the pc to make sure my RAMS are not limited (I doubt they are, i use them with no problem on games ect.)

[quaint fable]

But yeah, I don't think you have any BIOS issues, your task manager shows 30% used which is about right for 48GB

[ocean talon]

I can see the 48G on Task manager

[quaint fable]

Yeah, if you had the BIOS issue, you'd see like a grayed out part of your RAM reserved for hardware use in task manager

[ocean talon]

I'm pretty sure they don't have issues, i didn't put them in myself, i was gonna get my pc case cleaned, asked my pc guy to put the new RAM sticks in after the cleaning

[quaint fable]

Yeah, that's all you really have to do with RAM, other than set the speed settings in BIOS

Just for fun

[ocean talon]

I'll format tomorrow (hopefully) and update if it magically fixes the issue

[ocean talon]

oh my god

may i see what you're doing to your Live2D

to make us use 100G

[quaint fable]

It's just two of the same PSD as before (the one that's using 40GB in my previous screenshot)

[ocean talon]

Scary

Well, thanks to everyone who helped / tried to help, I'll update tomorrow about the format, It's around 5AM here and my brain is leaking due to troubleshooting for 4 hours..

[ocean talon]

I've sent another friend the same cmo3 file, it seems that the problem is the hair mesh i've made, for some reason, after a while of meshing, the program freaks out??? It can't process something and it starts lagging, and it doesn't use much more than 2-3G ram at the process for some reason, but the problem is the hair i've meshed, i kinda went overboard?- - * Just discovered in the same file i can mesh other parts with no lag, no problem, but the hair strand i've went kinda overboard makes the program freak out

Also, the PSD file is 37.76MB and the cmo3 file is 28.42MB so thats not the issue

come to think of it i remember someone mentioning " big atlases, very detailed meshes that are done manualy, the posibility of procreate psd, model issues like big id on glue or using skinning and blenshapes "

Its not procreate psd its from clip studio, BUT i've done a very detailed mesh, maybe it's making Live2D freak out or something?

[ivory pagoda]

are you making the meshes? i remember you said yo used automesh

can you take a picture of how is the mesh?

[ocean talon]

this screenshot is from yesterday, i may have went overboard..

I've used the stroke mesh-mapping tool today to use another method and it seems to be doing better, 4G ram usage, WAY less lag

[ivory pagoda]

...... i kind of dont understand why you rigged like that the edges

[ocean talon]

I have no idea, i was experimenting some meshing styles i've seen from internet, to see how it would look when i use deformers ect.

i tought it wouldn't be a problem since i had way more ram than a basic rig needs, but it seems like too much detailed meshing freaks out live2d?

[ivory pagoda]

as someone that NOT know how exactly live2d proccess the movoment of each dof ot the mesh in a "process" sceanrio i would totally believe this is too much

i think more than "i have more ram than the world" is more of a topic of "how many things are been calculated at the same time"
is similar to those pixel games, that when they hace so many particles around, not matter that your computed is from the NASA, the fact that is running everything at same time will still lags because of it

[storm raven]

Yeah, more of a processing issue than ram

[ocean talon]

yeah looks like thats the issue, cuz if i'm meshing another part, i have no lag, feels like Live2D can't process and since its not being able to process it doesnt use much ram

[ivory pagoda]

"optimization" issue i would call

[ocean talon]

and here i was thinking it was capping since it was only using 2gigs

[ivory pagoda]

maybe i never caps because it was not a ram eating lol, the mistery of how you killed your minecraft

i think thisis similar to warp deformers
sometimes you want a very high division on them but if you go too much you start killing the model lol

[ocean talon]

well thats another mistery, deleting minecraft DID actually improved the performance of my live2d for some reason, maybe it was the mods, but yeah

[ivory pagoda]

in live2d. more is worst in half scenarios

[ocean talon]

still im sad loosing all my world saves..

[ivory pagoda]

sadasd why you didnt copied the world files adsdasd noooo asdasd so sad

[ocean talon]

yeah..

[ivory pagoda]

that yeah looked very suspisious xD

[ocean talon]

I was very tired, i've been troubleshooting for at least 3-4 hours and had no patiance lolol

[ivory pagoda]

ahhh well i give you a point there, i had been there

[storm raven]

No one knows the word "optimization" nowadays much less the concept

[ocean talon]

I go too much on most of my models and didnt had much problem till now, i might've gone overboard without even realising lolol

[ivory pagoda]

thats so real asdasd is like the "i want my model big as the moon"
then never be able to use it

[ocean talon]

reality hit a bit too real

[ivory pagoda]

ahhh that could backfire really bad sometimes, its always a good thing to practice optimization stuff so you dont end with making something you will not be able to even use, its like me, i was carving a pumking the other day and i cut the top hole wrong size, so the spoon didnt went in, i had to cut again and now it look ugly

[ocean talon]

lesson learned, i've went ahead and tagged the Resolved tag, It was me being dumb lolol

Thank you to everyone tho, i've learned my lesson, i gotta learn optimising my models

[ivory pagoda]

if you are ok with some optimization tips
1.- watch my clipping permutation tutorial to reduce clipping permutations
2.-always clean project tab each time you add any psd or replace psd
3.-try to not have empty deformers
4.-if you make a deformer on top of a rotator, try to reduce divisions as much as you can, rotator dont deforms anyway
5.- try to avoid 8k atlas, never use 16k atlas
6.-if you have symetrical layers that you can delete, do it, save space
7.-get some really good coffe and master your level on tetris by manualy doing atlas as tight as possible
8.-remember that not all pieces are really visible, things like shadows or layers that go to the very back or are covered by others, you can reduce those on atlas to have more space
9.-remember to focuse the mesh on where you really need it, not all meshes need to be done the same or too small tight

[[recently kira omori made a livestream, she is an amazing rigger, yo can go and see how she had some meshes done if you are curious, i found really helpful to see high tier riggers work]]

[ocean talon]

Ah thank you so much for the tips! May i ask if it would be possible to share your tutorial link?

[ivory pagoda]

#archived-live2d-resources message

[ocean talon]

thank you ^^

[sudden rain]

I am sorry if it was already suggested, but have you expanded the ram in the program files?
cubism folder (whatever version u got), and then there are 4 different .bat files cubismviewer.bat and others. Copy these to your dashboard, open them in a txt form. And you can change the MaxUsage (which is standard 4000) to a higher ram amount. Then save the file, and move it back to the original folder and replace it again as a .bat. Live2d standard only reserves 4000, so the program will feel a lot faster after.
Just keep in mind that you need to increase the ram by a multiplier. 4000, 8000, 16000, 32000 etc

[ocean talon]

Yeah it was suggested, but i've set it as 20000, i don't know if that would count-

[floral heart]

I find it interesting when people keep on saying "oh live2d only reserves 4GB" when I have never tinkered with any settings and my live2d was using up to 15 GB of RAM lol

[quaint fable]

I know in older versions of live 2d, you did have a 4gb cap. You had to do either bat file edit or the Java system variable up unlock it. Doesn't apply anymore these days though.