Alpha Shield to have 2h activation delay in White Star

[dusky willow]

There is a discussion surround Alpha Shield and how the shield is essentially the default shield type for WS bar a few specific roles, particularly in hitech games where area damage module overwhelm blast.

This is caused by the fact that:

• barrier dmg can be bypassed by alpha shield
• overwhelming area dmg can be survived by alpha

Some have suggested modules that bypass alpha/break it. The problem is a module that exists for a single purpose is otherwise wasting a slot; also counters should be from game mechanics, not a deus ex machina option. (note: adding 'alpha bypass' to a otherwise low value module is still effectively making that module single purpose if that's the only reason people are equipping it)

I also think that the concept of "invincibility" is the purpose of Alpha. Either that concept is flawed (and should be removed from the game) or the solution should preserve that basic property: ie - once activated, a ship with alpha shield is invincible.

That is where this idea is starting from.

The Idea
When you activate the alpha shield module, the shield does not instantly turn on - instead a 2h countdown starts and then the shield activates. The duration of shield shield would remain the same (so if it was 4h before, you still get 4h once that countdown has finished) and the cd period will remain at the start of module activation, not shield activation.

This gives alpha users a disadvantage over other activated users (eg: Omega, Mirror) in that they are more vulnerable to attack. Presently alpha users can wade confidently into a dangerous sector, knowing that no matter what the enemy does, they can just activate their shield at the last moment and be safe. WIth an activation delay, alpha users will be able to react to incoming teleports, leaps (because they take 8h) or have it activated ready for landing when teleporting in - but it will leave the more vulnerable to sneak/sudden attacks where mirror, omega, passive would be better options.

Important note: I use 2h as an example time, this duration is up for discussion, maybe 1h is better, or even 30m . I chose 2h just as that's a common period for activations (eg destiny, vengeance)

I know some people will say "but this means barrier players will know whether or not they need to activate barrier on landing to kill the enemy player" - correct, and that's another drawback. It means as an alpha player you will be telegraphing your shield deployment with a heads up on the enemy. It's the price you pay for invulnerabilty, which is the most powerful module in the game.

I also think that a ship with active alpha shield should not be disbandable for the same reason, if your ship is invincible, no one should be able to destroy it, not even you. But that's not part of this suggestion.

[fickle raft]

I think 1h would be a better place to start so it can still answer to dest/veng. Still a nerf to have to "waste" that time ahead of the boom, but not so drastic.

I don't know that this is the best solution possible, but alpha needs to be addressed somehow. This looks like a reasonable and flexible approach 👍

[maiden marsh]

And bump it's cd up to 30 hours, so it wouldn't be possible to constantly spam suicide attacks

Also, what if instead of being an on-demand invincibility, alpha shield was giving damage resistance, that would go up to 100% after some time? Like laser's damage ramp-up

[paper basalt]

why not maybe increase blast shield dmg absorption instead

[paper basalt]

what about vengeance users being basically completely unable to use vengeance?

like man, I used to play in OGHS, I invested a bit in vengeance, I liked it for the playstyle and it wasnt broken and it got broken and its bad but why make it worse by making it completely an unusable module? 🤷

[reef river]

I don't think veng would be unusable at all. You just have to plan for it, and activate your shield before you get to 2k damage, knowing you'll take the rest of the damage required during the activation delay.

[paper basalt]

oh I get it works in that way

wait a second, that doesnt' solve the problem of vengeance and leap and all being so dominant that requires us to use alpha shield in the first place!

Theres gotta be a balance between defense and offense, defense mods like Blast Shield have to be buffed to balance def mods instead of nerfing alpha shield - alpha isnt broken, its the extremity of aoe mods that make it one of the only viable modules. People would just use regen shield. Why do they don't? its because theres too many aoe modules, too much power in them, too many bombs and rockets to throw, not a lot of shields to hide behind

[dusky willow]

Exactly

Also, other shields exist.

[dusky willow]

Vengeance is never triggered locally in competent white star, it's always primed ahead of a teleport as you will just be teleporting into barriers.

If it's primed going in you will always know when it is going to activate as you are in control of the timing and as such can activate it so it is timed with vengeance activation

[paper basalt]

that I get, Im just saying the problem is aoe mods like leap, veng, destiny are too powerful is why we'll only have one shield. If you intend to balance shields by nerfing alpha, then we get 0 shields. The balancing is also between 'bomb' modules and 'defense' modules, and in that way it gets worse, and the better way to do it might be buffing the other shields instead

[dusky willow]

If that's your interpretation then you haven't read the discussion as the suggestion literally discusses this

Alpha shield would still be able to defend against leap and vengeance,

[paper basalt]

I read it, and I read it again just now. I think its my point you don't get.
It's that shields as a whole have diminshed in value due to aoe mods. If your objective here is to balance between shield options, then you should buff the other shields instead, even if nerf alpha, it won't solve the issue, at least entirely of hyperagressive ws metas

I change my mind, upvoted it

[gleaming saddle]

Either this (I think it could still be used in time machine fine) or make the cd last the entire length after use that way alpha can only be used once per player per match.. once ws is over the cd is over 🤣🤣

[winter wasp]

Discussing the issue is usually best, i agree. So, in your WS experience you see AOE to be over represented and the shield intended to counter doesn't meet that challenge, yes? I think I've read others saying similar.

Does deliver blast or a aoe direct? Does protect against it? It could be another issues is needs a slight buff.

[paper basalt]

I am saying just that shield modules overall have diminished in value, alongside general counter mods to AOE mods which has broken the balance, so if thats what you mean, yes

I do realize the specific implications of the 2h activation delay will stop some hyper-aggressive movements, heading boldly in-to enemy lines

however, nerfing alpha shield in general is not the solution to our porblems

[winter wasp]

A 2h delay effectively disables the shield activation from after landing; I'd think it would be simpler to make Alpha shield not function with activation but all that does is eliminate that option for players during RS runs ie Boom builds, unless that exception is star specific. Anything scheduled in TM for WS before landing via teleport would just need to be scheduled to account for the 2h delay meaning a net result of no difference whatsoever.

[paper basalt]

Completely making vengeance useless, is something I see as very illogical and as bad if not worse as our current situation. A lot of people resent against the specific module and want nerfs for it, but I think its more complex than that

[winter wasp]

I've read a suggestion by a few to have "shatter" against the first ie it goes to cooldown. I've considered further having that "shatter" disable that module ie put it on cooldown. The result is the ship landing with would be lost against the second but you time a series of ships and you have landing which are thrown away with the trade off that now the opponent has no more active . I don't know I'd that's a useful trade off.

[paper basalt]

barrier and chainray would rule and the WS would go back to being a stagnant playing field

[winter wasp]

Also, with only the "shatter" the first ship is now without shields which can be eliminated very quickly so as to also make at least ineffective as the ship could be defeated before the 2h activation could complete.

[winter wasp]

Sort of how it is now, as that's the only thing remaining after you account for + 💥

[paper basalt]

I can barely read right now, but you seem to have an agreeable point

[tough bone]

Hear me out barrier vs alpha shouldnt be a contest anyways bc barrier shouldnt do dmg 🤔

[winter wasp]

Didn't we once have it such that in/during a WS any teleport that completed withing reach of an active would cancel and the teleporting ship remained where it was with its teleport on cooldown? For sure could be mis recalling.

[tough bone]

I genuinely don't get why ppl keep bringing that up when I say remote barr damage

I DO NOT WANT OLD BARRIER

I WANT BARRIER WITH SHINS BROKEN BECAUSE IT DESERVES IT

NO DAMAGE, NO CANCEL, JUST STOPS NORMAL ASS MOVEMENT

Its already EXTREMELY powerful by just stopping movement

There should not be a module that demands you use 1 specific module to even access an area much less be useful there.

I can grab 6 level 12 barriers and permantly lock down an area until someone teleports in, and I don't think thats fair in the first place

Ugh, not the point of the thread anyways

[dusky willow]

I probably agree with you. But that doesn't change the thesis of this suggestion as alpha into barrier was never the issue, it was about the trade off for invincibility meaning you have to anticipate/telegraph when you are going to use it.

Splitting barrier into two mods (movement block, and teleport damage) is probably a good idea, but not this thread.

[tough bone]

Yeah, that sounds not bad honestly

To me this seems like a minor buff that changes little, other than mindlessly throwing yourself at the star in bls

I rlly dont see all to much of an issue for this

I js crash out over barr spam being so op

[dusky willow]

Well I am only talking about white star in this thread, I did consider also mentioning blue star (where it should probably be a 1 second delay) but I didn't want to overcomplicate the discussion.

[tough bone]

Id say 3s

[dusky willow]

This is an interesting idea, and to be clear I have understood it:

It can be a 3 stage activation:

For example (times and % example figures):

0-1 hour = initial delay
1-2 hour = 50% DMG protection (can increase with level)
2-finish = 100% protection

[tough bone]

Anticipating destiny is pretty easy, ofc someone standing still as you approach them while they have destiny is likely gonna pop it, so 3s gives ppl time to veng skip with high power and makes ppl actually have to press the damn button

[tough bone]

The 3 squares on laser could work for this too

Maybe 1-15 has like 30% to 70%

[cunning apex]

idea: all damage should get halved

[tough bone]

Shitty, but close enough
welcome back motion shield

[cunning apex]

no i meant like generally

[tough bone]

I-

Ykw

I actually wouldnt be all too opposed

Maybe not half like, delta and omega

But otherwise yeah I wouldnt mind more survivability overall

[reef river]

Just halve the cooldowns for all activated shields (other than alpha). Essentially double HP on all the options no one uses. That'd help a lot imo.

[tough bone]

I could write an essay on how I think the game could be re-balanced

[cunning apex]

do it

[maiden marsh]

I'm interested too