#Bring back old WS (with some changes)

81 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

shut breach
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- Bring back old rewards mechanic

The current mechanic mostly benefits the bigger corps, as they have higher artifact bonus than others. This also encourages many people to leave smaller corps for artifact bonus. It is also unfair for those who spent effort in WS matches, because if they win, they get the same artifact bonus as the other corpmates who did nothing.

Proposal: Bring back the old rewards system, or change the rewards to personal artifact bonus instead of corp-wide artifact bonus for winners.

If people do not like the old mechanic because it allows corps to spam loss farms, devs can add something like "require WS players to put in a set percentage of the score bar to get rewards" for both winners and losers. The set percentage will be higher, depending on each player's RS scanner level.

- Bring back old leaderboard and score bar

The current WS leaderboard allows those who do nothing in WS gain badges just because they are placed in many matches that won in a season.

golden mountain
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give reward beside ws bonus

charred lintel
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agreed

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we need ws rewards

drowsy plank
# shut breach ### - Bring back old rewards mechanic The current mechanic mostly benefits the b...

yes, we do need ws to be more effort-based. I liked the previous system that counts effort as damage caused, relics, and hydro deposited.

We can use that for leaderboard: all member of corp X receive # crystal for surpassing Y points milestone,... and at the end of seasons, the chosen member (first officer) gets Z crystals depending on rankings. Of course we will also need a ranking system to make the competition more fair for corps.

Either way, I don't enjoy the current benefits ws brings. High bonus isn't linked with OUR corp winning ws. Rather it's THEIR corp winning ws

dry monolith
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I disagree with ws rewards or frankly any PvP rewards since it incentivizes cheating and ruining others game enjoyment for a laugh. I do however agree with fixing the leaderboard. The current system it’s impossible for new corps to rank because other teams got 5+ years to build a lead and now it’s locked in since relic count no longer matters. Ws should still reward corp bonus but it should be based on a rolling leaderboard of the last 3-6 months so it’s still actually possible to change and advance.

turbid hamlet
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I agree with the return of personal ws reward, though it can differ from the old times. Additional artifact research bonus that scales on one's contribution in ws for example (same with the support pack 2 bonus), just anything that can encourage players in smaller corps to put more effort into winning ws

shut breach
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also can you explain about the "cheating" part if ws personal rewards return? because it feels boring to play ws without gaining any credit.

dry monolith
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Not just ws but all PvP.
Between loss farmers in Ws and smurfs in bls it ruins the game for the masses that actually want to play the game.

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As for the old metric of having to fill the bar that only works as a team thing. Many times players who did important jobs such as defense never earned a single point for the bar because they successfully defended using mods and didn’t have to do damage.

shut breach
frail stone
hushed tulip
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This isn't an e-sport with cash prizes. Any "rewards" we get are in game so feed the loop we play, which if you aren't doing for fun, why are you playing?

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The main argument for rewards is that is gets players to try the game modes. Maybe there is a case that for your first 10 white stars you get some income. But White Star and Blue Star are game modes that are harmed by the presence of teams/players farming it

solid imp
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laserharold imagine playing the game to farm

hushed tulip
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I think that part of the problem is that Hades Star is a game the straddles the line between being a traditional MMO and a pure mechanics based strategy game, sort of like real time chess.

It's neither and both at the same time, and the game is split between players who play it either of those reasons (as well as those who just want an idle, second screen game)

If you play it for the MMO aspects you want to farm the mechanics and the mechanics purists get in the way of that.

Meanwhile the mechanics purists only want to play similar players, and the farmers ruin the fun they are looking for

tepid nimbus
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Just saying that loss farm could have been ended up if developer would have inserted this what he told us -->#questions-for-devs message

we should be glad that we are still allowed to Jump arround corps no?

hushed tulip
# tepid nimbus Just saying that loss farm could have been ended up if developer would have inse...

Even ignoring the farming that would have incentivized, That also would have ended up creating a massive dipole between the haves and the have-nots corps. It probably would have increased white star engagement, but the corps with bonus would have essentially accelerated away from the corps without as they packed their corps with the top players with the top tech who then had their advantage accelerated away from the corps who would fall behind on bps, players and motivation.

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I think that early access probably had the best white star experience as everyone had the same tech.

Obviously though, the game historic tied everything to your progression, however I think this could be addressed by making your white star scanner level up with your ships.

Once all your ships as at a certain level, (say all 5s) your white star scanner levels up to level 5. You can then join scans at that level or lower (if you lower the scan level, you get the ship of that level)

White Star tech levels would be tied to the scanner level (say, BS7 = 15, BS6 =12, BS5=10, BS4 = 8 etc) and you get all tech for that level too.

Ships would be tied to the scanner and not come out of your shipyard allowance

tepid nimbus
# hushed tulip Even ignoring the farming that would have incentivized, That also would have end...

I once made this suggestion so least Fs gets some reward system without needing our donations https://discord.com/channels/255083954036670464/1219611311759949924
i belive if Relics would have this multiple bonus, corps would have been grown faster as it is now.

Surly all this big corps are always been ahead and as you said lower corps would have been fallen behind more.

^ but as you said in the next text the early access ws thing could have been a thing to negate this.
maybe add 2 queues one with fixed level one with own level but both are able to match each other
Lv10/15 maybe a white star scanner that can be upgraded similar as redstar scanner but needs a battle bar wich has to be filled by practicing ws once field you can upgrade/ unlock the next levels of them

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Also the shipyard thing as you mentioned there would have been a nice thing to this

hushed tulip
untold spear
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That's actually a pretty cool idea

frail stone
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If you win who will know how try hard you are. No one know what you did.

charred lintel
solid imp
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500 crystals 👀

real plaza
shut breach
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many corps get inactive because they do not have the motivation to play anymore. besides, endgame corps will still be as tryhard as always. they are the ones who need their % the most

drowsy plank
# hushed tulip Games are meant to be played for fun? I mean even if you get credits rewards wh...

I used to enjoy and take part in ws. But since DN dropped, I feel like I have been stripped of the rewards for my efforts, it is a 5-day mission! I should get something back in return that is proportionately equal to the amount of time I put in. If not, why do I even bother to play this mode (apart from farming crystals from achievements) ?

You say games are meant to be fun. Yes, I agree, but taking away ws rewards is like taking away 70% of its fun (rest 30% is the gamemode itself). So yeah, not fun to play a mode without a good incentive.

hushed tulip
dry monolith
charred lintel
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From my viewpoint, i know that lower players are also want to do RS Event too, but due to lack of members participate, low RS Scanner (little rs point) and cannot compete with other stronger coporations on the leaderboard (||as below 100 the rewards is absolutely nothing||) so they don't do. My home coporation is that. We want, but our corp don't even have a chance to compete, so our corps don't participate rs event, only a few ones comes out to run in another coporation for goods. I've wandered through a lot of coporation and know that RS Event is a bright moon that can't be lifted for them, too.

dry monolith
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T100 needed 750k points. If you have a nearly full team that’s 1-5 runs per player depending on rs level. Most teams don’t have that many players but you could probably team up with other lower teams to make a full team. My group teams up with another to make it easier for all. Even the top 10 teams need to pull help from outside their corp to compete

golden mountain
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getting relic should reward sometime after ws

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so more reason to negotiate in ws, like negotiate for both corp to get 40+ relics for that reward

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and if a corp is runnning 2 ws team and still have ws bonus, they could let the other corp get 1 extra relic to win the ws and get the bonus

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could be a cool dynamic

dry monolith
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You mean the exact thing devs banned corps for? Yeah no thanks

charred lintel
drowsy plank
shut breach
solid imp
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Because relic was the only way to boost corp level

golden mountain
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so that was what old ws like?

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booo

shut breach
solid imp
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No sleep in HS WS

shut breach
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true

hushed tulip
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I got more sleep in Hades Star than in Dark Nebula.

However soldiers get a lot more time away from the game.

solid imp
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Agreed.
Commanders always have less sleep time

hushed tulip
# solid imp Agreed. Commanders always have less sleep time

I think the paradox caused by the slower time is that it means you have to be ahead of pings.

In old Hades star you had a gate guardian with infinite mods that could suppress things half way across the map within 3h.

Now, sure teleport takes 8h, but you don't have that 8h to react. Because walking distances are much slower, waypoints further apart than before. Usually if you haven't reacted within 30-45m, it's too late. And that can be longer than the 10m from old HS (although, that 10m was usually predictable, something like "hey, they will impulse at some point in the next 2h, and you'll have 10m to respond when they do)

But more crucially than all that, old White Stars were usually about 10 major battles per game. Now it's 2, maybe 3.

It means you can't afford to lose a single battle, every rides on winning every exchange, so commanders have to invest far more energy in ensuring that - because you can't even risk a 5% chance something happens while you sleep because every encounter is all or nothing.

tepid nimbus
golden mountain
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tried to be commander once (not quite but everytime I online, I calculate every single thing my enemy could do) after last battle before ws end, I had a really good sleep

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kinda overreact at some point

tepid nimbus
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as alien said you can lose a battle early or even during mid ws as long as modules are back at the final battle theres still a way to win any ws...

its just about the timing to get ride of enemy rds or ts once they travel to gate and since leaps and tps can be launched way easier to enemy gates its all over easier least thats what I think....

tepid nimbus
silent silo
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Yes we shall start a rebellion!!!!

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Wait no isn't it " a revolution"

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(spends money on game to catch up tech wise)

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And yes with just a bit of real world funding

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But uwu together we can for real.
Join us (you and your followers) and together... We shall reign supreme and slay the Hades gods

charred lintel
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🐧

silent silo
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Alas this is why we stay poor

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We are divided

hushed tulip
shut breach
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bump?

drowsy plank
# hushed tulip Games are meant to be played for fun? I mean even if you get credits rewards wh...

every mode rewards the player in its own way. Ys gives credits and hydro for activites, rs/drs help player progress in terms of modules, bls provide a daily amount of creds and hydro, and ws provides art bonus.

The problem lies there

Big corps are open and all players that have access to them can also access big bonus. Where is the need to fight in a ws for better arts? Your point of "Games are meant to be played for fun" is kind of a default statement; every modes in hs are designed to make the game more fun! It's just that fighting ws doesn't really benefit us (if corp is low lvl), which makes ws loses it purpose, players loses their incentives and therefore, ws not fun.

Of course if you do ws "just for fun" then this argument doesn't count/

shut breach
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"does the local shop accept crystal and hydro for goods?" was the worst possible sentence i could hear as a gamer

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if everyone thinks the same way, the whole game industry collapses

untold spear
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i dont understand what you mean

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i have been paying my local grocery store in rs9 arts for the past few months now

molten granite
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WS should have improve
you take a part in ws,you fight,and you win.
but all you can get is the ws master.
I am a commander (trying to be good at ws)and I didn't get any rewards in ws.And the strategy in dn ws is also have less variety.
hope ws will be improved.

upbeat gyro
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This has been marked as Cannot implement as it's made up of two different suggestions, both of which would not be implemented as described here.

You can create individual feature requests around WS rewards or WS leaderboards, but please keep the following in mind:

  • Individual WS rewards (i.e. Credits and Hydrogen) will not be coming back. Any new White Star rewards will continue benefiting the entire Corporation. White Stars is a niche mode that not everyone likes. Unlike Blue Stars, encouraging people who do not really like White Stars to participate makes White Stars worse for everyone else. Part of managing a Corporation is to recruit a subset of skilled and dedicated players that help the entire Corporation progress via White Stars. Having players who "do nothing" in White Stars benefit from other players activity is part of the game's design and will not be changing.

  • Any suggestions about a score/participation bar in White Stars are very unlikely to be implemented again. As proven by many years of actual in game data, score bars can and will be abused.

robust wasp
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This is just because... well it is fair for you to dismiss these issues due to the data and logic,
I will inform, many of us players, who play the game for WS, and only play WS, and having the majority of the players we interacted with be WS players.... the recent dismissals related to WS changes, at least come off as 'alienating' to some of us.

zenith galleon
# upbeat gyro This has been marked as Cannot implement as it's made up of two different sugges...

white stars delay progress for lower level players. heck I don't even have a bls ship since I have a permit white star ship and I'm rs11. But lower level players lose a bs and support every week. and they don't have enough ships to really cover this. I also don't like bls. so I delay my progress to avoid them. some days I even skip a criod and rs runs if I have enough art for the day, but a white star... its social, fun, and team, rewards.. would help players like me who play just for white stars. Corp ties matter less to me, I have played in alot of different corps. I like meeting people around the game.

perhaps then... the white star players get the corp bonus for the week regardless if the corp has bonus or not. if the corp has a bonus the white star player gets a extra % would that be doable?

Would you like a case study on this topic... I could put together one involving user research interviews, epically with players who dont white star.

but I'll tell you this the number one thing I hear is white stars take alot of time and they'res not a player reward, and people just go to bso for bonus so the corp bonus rarely is a movator

but I would be more than happy to do that. to provide some research onto the topic.