Laser and Dual Laser in RS are IMBA

[inland fog]

In WS, lasers are acceptable. The quick damage ramp up makes up for it's extreme vulnerability to EMP. Same goes to Laser and Dual Laser in BLS. The staging time is rather acceptable.

However, in RS, Laser and Dual laser are so IMBA. It takes FOREVER to ramp up damage. Those two modules are so useless, it is only used by newbies in low level RS. The old version Laser and Dual Laser are much more balanced. 26 seconds for maximum damage is so unreasonable . At least, make the staging similar to BLS setting. Time is the the essence in RS, and Cerberus ships kills quick.

[smoky heron]

Seconded! Even alpha+emp doesn't help 🙂

Level 3 damage must be at least 20 second. And need 2 up 8 sec.

[placid lichen]

It’s only 20 seconds for max damage not 26. Laser by its very nature of not staying ramped needs a lot of work. Dl really only needs a slight base dps increase.

[supple hamlet]

gotta make the ramp time description less confusing...

[smoky heron]

Have you tried playing dlaser on DRS? I Yes. There is enough damage with loneliness. The problem is the maximum damage set.

[smoky heron]

Where 20 second??? 28!!!

[placid lichen]

It’s 8 seconds + 12 =20 total.

[smoky heron]

where +12???

stage 1 - 8 sec, stage 2 - 20, need 28 sec for max dps

[smoky heron]

That's how it works. The laser/double laser does not have time for the emi to gain momentum on rs/drs. Also, there are too many targets and the classic with 3 targets is not enough. On WS it is imba, but you need to bypass the beams. But the best balance is on BS.

Also using an alpha shield won't save you. Suspension? Also too long! It lasts 45 seconds, and laser's need 28/45 sec!

[smoky heron]

I hear you... You thought 20 seconds worked from the start of the attack. No.) They come after the first finish stage.

Simply put, each stage is a new countdown. It doesn't work like before! (in the classics). I've checked it several times. It always takes me 28 seconds to reach full damage. Some may say that the damage is not bad on stage 1 - but it's not.

Okey. Suppose I pumped a playable level 12 and a level 12 soli.
136 - 530,4
308 - 1 201,2
1 400 - 5 460
Only after 8 seconds I get damage like massbat, but it hits 2 targets. But if I somehow survive 28 seconds, I'll get a lot of damage.(but by then my ship will be dead most likely).
Simply put a rebalance is needed either way. You can lower the maximum damage sacrifice long acceleration. But this weapon should be as an alternative for RS/DRS!

https://tenor.com/view/anyone-here-tumbleweed-john-travolta-pulp-fiction-where-are-you-gif-22041899

[placid lichen]

I am sorry but you are wrong. It takes exactly 20 seconds to reach max ramp. An emp will eat up a lot of that ramping time and alpha can be easily leveled to 30 seconds. I did a whole write up on this let me see if I can find it for you

[placid lichen]

#general message in theory the numbers are fine. Give it a shot. I would but my levels are too low

[smoky heron]

All right. Uh-huh. 20 seconds, actually. Apparently I was having trouble dialing stage 2.
In that case, the topic vector will not change. Dlaser is not used by rs/drs players right now. Whereas after the laser/dlaser improvement for bs allows players to put this weapon on ships. I encounter this weapon often. But on drs never.

Perhaps stage 3 is greatly exaggerated. What if make stage 3 - x3 times stronger than massbat, but shorten the time to max dps?

[smoky heron]

@placid lichenI read your article... The main problem is that you need to use alpha shield. BUT! It will be 10 times more effective with massbat+weapon enhancer+revenge.
This weapon must be used without an alpha shield. I have a level 12 MS. But I need a level 13 Dlaser for testing.

[placid lichen]

Bro why don’t you just try it? Everything you have said about this so far has been wrong. You are making assumptions not back up by anything. No good math, no game logic, and no testing. There are people in the game right now using dl in drs. Maybe not very many but that’s more to do with mass being meta long before dn and do being terrible for many years before. I’m not saying dl is the best weapon but it’s better and more usable than you seem to think. Level it up and prove me wrong

[smoky heron]

It takes 70 days to do that, and that's a lot.
And still. Dlaser was not changed in the release of nebula. I've even met players on RS11 with it, they had a very hard time with it. I later saw them with massbat).
Hence my conclusions that the weapon needs to be IMPROVED.

https://tenor.com/view/laser-eyes-silence-super-powers-the-boys-amazon-gif-15594340

[placid lichen]

I have personally seen my theory tested with lower level mods so there is proof of concept. Maybe I’ll level it someday and try but currently got a 7 month grind for more important things. You are right it hasn’t really been changed much in like 5 years except the ramp timer was shortened. Its damage output over time is fine it’s the utility of staying ramped that’s the main issue. But at the end of the day who would even use it? Everyone leveled mass at low levels since that’s the only actual viable weapon early game. Even if mass and dl were evenly matched mass is better at low levels because lack of enemies to maintain ramp. And once you have a viable weapon it’s unlikely anyone would level a new weapon. That was the entire issue in oghs every other rs level you needed to start a new weapon from scratch it took a lot of research time that was wasted. I still think dl needs a slight base dps increase and then lets actually see people test it before we go making drastic changes.

[wheat hill]

Afaik EMP doesn't reset ramp anymore

[placid lichen]

Correct it does not

[placid lichen]

Yup. The high end isn’t the issue it’s the no ramp single target damage imo.

[knotty swift]

Barrage and vengeance would have cleared that SO much faster 😭

[placid lichen]

We don’t know levels in that

[wheat hill]

Also not really fair to evaluate a weapon in comparison to veng

[placid lichen]

Agreed. My leap does a lot more damage than my mass does in rs. As I highlighted in my thesis the damage on dl is actually too high maybe. Just need someone who’s actually got it leveled to try

[broken wave]

For me, it's a 5 min cd with veng or 4 min cd with alpha shield. Don't get me wrong, I prefer veng by far, but the time constraints are what they are

[broken wave]

Heh, why not both?

[torpid arch]

I miss those blobs of color

[placid lichen]

Lasers looked so much cooler back then

[restive stream]

It is going to be a long long way up to 32M

[grizzled canyon]

make laser keep damage when switching targets

[smoky heron]

Barrage had its own animation, I don't understand why it was removed and there is no theme....

@broken wave@placid lichen
Guys, I have a level 8 dl. I have done a few fights with it! And while this weapon is accelerating I'm getting killed. The problem is that you need 2 enemies next to each other, you need a bunch of cerberus. But these cerberus are what kills the player. That's bullshit.
Level 8 can be compared to high levels. Why? Because the base damage is almost the same as on a 12!
The max damage goes up and the average damage is worse.
The problem with DUAL LASER is that it needs 2 targets all the time.(and of course a long set of 3 stages or at least 2 stages( and the second stage = Massbat damage🤡 ).
I suggest a way out:
Add heating mechanics to it!
Optimal solution:
If you have DL charged to stage 3 and you lose the second target, you get stage 2 and it holds for 8 seconds without the second target, then goes to stage 1.
Possible imbo solution:
If you have a DL charged to stage 3 and you lose the second target, you get stage 3 and it holds for 8 seconds without the second target, after it goes to stage 2 or 1.
WHY IS THIS NECESSARY?! Yes because the theme players are considering weapons this is for the purpose of clearing the main planet, and I'm talking about clearing EVERYTHING! For Dual Laser to be a competitor to MASSBAT it needs to be improved.
Even Barrage plays great! I for example use it every day!

Might want to just raise the base damage to Massbat damage. Players will choose between ramping up to stage 3 and two weapon targets. And between 3 at once! That would be the best solution as well!

Either make stage 3 hold without a second target, or raise the base damage. Although the second solution will be more adequate. Since the first one is beating the player.

DL has always been garbage(now it's better and only for BS), hopefully the developers will get behind the game before inactivity bores players and they find other projects. Take Buldur gate 3 as an example!

[placid lichen]

I whole heartily agree that lasers should either have a short ramp down or maybe increased range once ramped to make maintaining targets easier. That said you can teleport while ramped and keep it if you land on 2 targets. That’s how I plan to make it work if I ever get there.

[smoky heron]

Stage 3 deals 5000+ damage. You won't have time to make a tap. Especially laser is more suitable for motion shield. And when you stand still, you take 100% damage.☠️

[placid lichen]

You have time. In drs10+ there is a crazy amount of hp in sector and most of the cerbs will drive to you. Should be able to drive into one planet and then teleport to another like I highlighted before. Drive into one planet and start to ramp then teleport to another planet as you start to finish the first. It’s like having a boom build but more damage and no boom

[grizzled canyon]

So it's a damage build

[hard wharf]

Have you tested this?

[placid lichen]

Personally no but I have been sent replays from a few people who tried but none of them were close to my recommended mod levels. I might level dl eventually but got months of other very slightly more interesting mods

[broken wave]

Id be interested in a replay with DL ramp maintained by tele. At stage 3, everything evaporates so fast. Plus tele has a 5 second delay, it'd be really challenging to maintain 2 targets

[placid lichen]

Drs10+ has a ton of total sector hp but as I pointed out yes at full you might do too much damage unless you have tele 14/15

[grizzled canyon]

dl tp needs a prep ship to pull cerbs

if you tp into an unpulled sector half the cerbs are gonna be out of range

[placid lichen]

Will have at least 1 Phoenix and a storm or colo. yes they will melt fast but should be able to get more ships flying in at you.

But nothing says can’t group before

[grizzled canyon]

not trying to call anyone out but this is what happens when you run laser lol

lvl10 too

[placid lichen]

With wamp making laser even worse

[smoky heron]

Just notice. That DL's base damage is not bs level 12 is almost the same as that of massbat and for this reason we meet DL on bs in players, I have even seen 10-12 levels more than once.

And so, I started pumping DL on my alt until 13 o'clock. We are waiting for 2 months.)))

Teleport 12 is there. But I think we need motion shields and suspension.

[smoky heron]

@placid lichen 2 month left🤡

[placid lichen]

Let’s see it go. Was doing the math a few days ago an alpha shield with sol wamp dl could clear a drs11 sector just sitting docked at planet. Some interesting plays out there. How does it handle trash sectors?

[restive stream]

Sounds good

[tall ember]

DL is awesome on crowded cerbs sector
But very shit on few cerbs sector

[placid lichen]

But in drs11 for example most of the sectors are packed even with trash plus the double Colo sectors. Won’t hit max ramp or anything but the damage is still decent

[smoky heron]

I can say that 4500 crystals were wasted).

If it's close, the damage comes from all of them. And this is required for maximum dpm. Nothing can take that much damage except alpha shield. Base damage is too weak. You need to do similar to Blue Star!

Even with emp and suspension it's bad...

We need to shorten the time to max damage, make the base one like a volley bat, or DALY. Right now it's a terrible balance!