#Strawman - I'd like to sue Strawman under §2 Trade (2)

24 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

wheat lake
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Within the last days strawman was actively buying up competitive oil drilling products in order to sell his electronic products with huge profits. He managed to abuse his market position as an oil driller to push his profession, made money with it and bought off the market - he built his monopole. Now he is the only electrician on level 7 with 165k€ in his pockets and still buying up ingredients.
With ingredients I mean for example plastic and epoxy. I and 2 other oil drillers were dropping our prices to make end products more affordable for our community. We are at around 5€/unit right now. Last time I checked he had this stuff for sale for 10€.
Another ingedient is glass - I have seen him buying up the market with 700+ glass today.
This is at best in my eyes a reckless ego tour of somebody who doesn't know how to share fun - or somebody who takes this game too serious.

I bet other people can attach some other screenshots of such deals he made. here are the ones I made.

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dark linden
iron solstice
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i used all that stuff to put solar generators into the government's buy order

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the 86 plastic that briefly appeared on my store didn't sell, nor was it ever intended to sell - i put it in the wrong stockpile, then used it quickly thereafter. the volume wasn't large enough and the listing duration wasn't long enough to affect market price at all. that should be obvious because the larger orders of 460 and 118 plastic never appeared on my store at any price - had i meant to manipulate prices, i would've used those to do it

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i have no stockpile of goods that i'm hiding from the market, everything i buy and produce is used to make something that goes on the market. every time i've sold something (something that actually sold, that i meant to sell, not a mistaken listing of something i meant to use) i've either sold into someone's buy order or set a listing at the prevailing market price (8 was the price for plastic the last time i listed some that i meant to sell which did sell, about 18 hours ago, which gummybear purchased). for items that don't have a prevailing market price besides what i set, like jaw crushers, solars and robotic assembly lines, i've either set a price based on what recent buy orders that i've filled paid, or calculated a price based on what other people are selling the subcomponents for

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here's where nearly everything i bought and produced went

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hazy sleet
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I will now ask preliminary questions for more information. Please only respond to questions directed at you, do not reply to anything directed at others, or anything said by others.

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@wheat lake - You are accusing strawman of hindering or blocking competition. Which skills or products do you believe are being blocked or hindered by strawman? How do you think strawmans purchases and sales have blocked others from entering the free market. What you have described so far sounds more like strawman profiting off of mismatched market prices, but you have not mentioned anyone who is unable to participate in the market due to his actions.

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@iron solstice - You have stated in the public that your pricing is based off of the supply and demand of oil products. From the information posted, it appears that the supply and demand of oil products has been driven mostly by yourself using your considerable wealth and market position to purchase any available goods on the market. When purchasing oil products, do you intentionally buy everything that is on market? If so, what is your goal or purpose in doing so?
Do you believe it is possible for other glassworkers or electricians to obtain oil products or fiberglass in reasonable quantities at reasonable prices? If so, why do you think that you were able to level electronics so much faster than everyone else? And why do you think you have made the vast majority of electronics sales? If not, why do you think they are unable to obtain these goods?

iron solstice
# hazy sleet <@176063403108990980> - You have stated in the public that your pricing is based...

From the information posted, it appears that the supply and demand of oil products has been driven mostly by yourself using your considerable wealth and market position to purchase any available goods on the market.
this is unequivocally not the case. the purchases listed above, which occurred today, are the only purchases of oil products that i've made since the first day electronics was available, and are by far the largest (i remember buying ~100 epoxy and plastic that day, but the specifics have fallen out of my transaction log). i also bought 50 epoxy a few hours later today because my production had fallen behind due to today's power brownouts. i also sold about 250 total plastic and epoxy about 12 hours before the purchases documented above.

When purchasing oil products, do you intentionally buy everything that is on market? If so, what is your goal or purpose in doing so?
no, i did not intentionally buy out the market (i don't know how much was left on the market after those purchases). this purchase was made right after i upgraded from 2 to 4 electronics assembly tables, but hadn't cleared land to add more pump jacks yet. my intent was to keep the tables running while i increased my own oil production.

**Do you believe it is possible for other glassworkers or electricians to obtain oil products or fiberglass in reasonable quantities at reasonable prices? **
i haven't paid close attention to the price or availability of oil products besides fiberglass, which has been steady in price between 35 and 40 since about 12 hours after the release of the electronics skill. i know that other electricians have been unable to find enough fiberglass, because during the first three days, i received at least two dozen private requests for deliveries of fiberglass from electronics, industry and advanced smelting players, each of which i fulfilled with a delivery of at least 30 fiberglass.

iron solstice
# hazy sleet <@176063403108990980> - You have stated in the public that your pricing is based...

**If so, why do you think that you were able to level electronics so much faster than everyone else? **
i was able to level fastest due to self-production and rapid expansion of my oilfield to stay at the top of the emissions permit distribution. the overwhelming majority of oil products i've used with my electronics skill were self-produced, at least 95%. as a point of reference, in only the last 24 hours, i've made 79 solar generators to sell to the government, which contained a total of 4108 plastic and 1264 epoxy.

And why do you think you have made the vast majority of electronics sales?
i have aggressively delivered to posted buy orders, quickly fulfilled every private request for an electronics product, and been online 16 hours a day since the electronics skill released.

If not, why do you think they are unable to obtain these goods?
i am not the only player self-producing with glassworking, oil and electronics - the second-largest producer, metallicdragon, has the same skills as me. as for the remaining producers, if i may use the parlance of our server - i think they're slacking. including myself, there are a total of 9 players with oil drilling, yet at my high point i owned 1/3 of the pump jacks on the server. there was never any serious competition for emissions permits - my pumps rarely stopped for more than 5 minutes an hour, even when i got up to 5 combustion generators, an IG and two refineries.

wheat lake
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@hazy sleet
**You are accusing strawman of hindering or blocking competition.
Which skills or products do you believe are being blocked or hindered by strawman? **
Electricity is mainly blocked by strawman. MetallicDragon is only capable of competing with him because he is also an oil driller and producing for himself.
EGM Mattzi and Schwartzy were camping my, zyramitis and zubats oil shop to get atleast some of the produced oil products reaching the open market at a fair value.
EGM Mattzi (Electricity 5) is at 9k wealth, Schwartzy (Electricity 5) is at 2k wealth. Denz (Electricity 4) is at 3,5k wealth.

MetallicDragon is still selling oil products for a high price (which is okay, if he think this is the right thing to do) but strawman is not even selling oil products.
The problem here is that the prices set for final products are calculated by others accepting the crazy ingredient prices set by said. This sounds to me like game mechanic abuse and market manipulation to his own favor.

How do you think strawmans purchases and sales have blocked others from entering the free market.
There is still a shortage in oil products. To lower the final prices of produced products for the citizens some of the oil drillers have decided to drop prices. For us it is not about
profit but rather about a healthy together and affordable prices for skid steers, trucks, etc. By completly fulfilling the orders with the prices mentioned above for the final products
there is no entry left for the others electricians to make a profit anyhow - with the spare oil products supplied. There isn't even a chance of paying back loans and we are not even talking about the 6000€ bill for the electricity scroll.

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What you have described so far sounds more like strawman profiting off of mismatched market prices,
but you have not mentioned anyone who is unable to participate in the market due to his actions.
In reallife its possible to bequeath wealth. In eco it is just wasted.
Congratz to being online 16 hours. You have won the game. Now you own a big bunch of money (220k€) you will never be able to spend.
But distributed on 5 or more players it could've been a bigger playerbase on white tiger.

wheat lake
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I want to point out that I am pushing this case not because of missed profit reasons - I do this for the sake of the community. I still do have a great income with 5€/oil product unit sold and was able to buy a skid steer for 8000€ and a industrial barge for 3500€.

hazy sleet
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Verdict: After reviewing strawmans trades and a survey of the market, the court rules that strawman has not blocked or hindered anyone from entering or participating in the market. Oil products and fiberglass are available, and while they are at higher prices than Ceelish and others may like, it is still possible to participate in the market and make a profit. Strawman himself has sold fiberglass to over half of the electricians on the server. Strawman is not legally responsible to drop market prices, only to allow others to compete with him.

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@iron solstice - While the court has ruled you have not broken any laws, it would like to remind you that Eco as a game encourages collaboration, and White Tiger as a server was built on the concept of server collaboration. Your playstyle (highlighted by the actions laid out in this case) combined with comments such as this: #white-tiger message give the impression that you value your own wealth and ideology above the well being of others and the server in general. The court advises you to consider whether your actions fit within the server concepts of positive collaboration and good citizenship and hopes that you can continue to contribute to The Federation of White Tiger in a manner that uplifts all citizens on the server.

fierce bay
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Electronics people :

  • 3 days not really enough to do anything when the scroll release
  • The days after (still the case right now) struggling to get epoxy and fiberglass. Get destroy on the fiberglass price when we can get some

vs

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I get that it doesn't go against the rule, but this is completely not fun for any person in that situation. A change in the law really need to be done in my opinion to prevent those kind of situations to happen again. The money, we don't care about it, we want to be able to play the game, that's all. I don't even understand what is the goal to be that rich when others can't even get their heads above the water. + what is that money use for? Probably nothing that much impactful for the community and the server.

hazy sleet
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@fierce bay if you'd like to make an official appeal, please state that, otherwise keep your commentary to other channels so this thread can stay focused on official matters.