#chatroom
1 messages · Page 3899 of 1
well the only ones that matter for the odds are the ones doing the most extensive research, which would be The Silph Road
and they say 1/50
Where on silph does it have that?
7 shiny gible so far. Im done
Anybody can do a shiny hunt of gible
Can i ask anything related to vmos here??
@livid linden #android_ios_support
why did you need 7 shiny gible?
the answer to any and all VMOS questions is.....
don't use VMOS
I just love gible thats all.
Is vmos is not safe?
@cerulean kelp wow! 7gible! Nice!
VMOS wasn't just flagged, it was nuked
@dawn zealot yes i know i was a victim
It's been constantly flagged and can be a bannable offense
Use at Your own risk
what kind of
Drunk driving
Use anything at your own risk
we all know the risk
I'm sorry, but I feel like being a part of a huge hit to an app should be warning enough to switch apps
Then wht to do without rooting i have android 9.0
continuing to use the same app is the definition of insanity
@stuck kernel exactly
@livid linden ask in #android_ios_support
Well the reason the ban hasn't come for Vmos I think is because they changed the method of operating
A raid about to hatch in 10 minutes in American Samoa
What a godsend for procrastinators like me
Gible shiny coordinates?
Lol
@minor torrent try #shiny_hunt
@dawn zealot it is over
Well none is there so try livemaps 🤣
Those are 3 hours old
4 Gible on sydneypokemap right now
Looks to me like they increased spawns tbh
I dont see them @sullen sluice
Filter
Use eyes
Only see one
Yesterday 10 shiny gible, today 2 check 2 shiny gible. Holly molly 😄
But it was shiny hehe
@proud gyro cause you have Hai in your name
I scrolled over all over but didnt see any others
Be careful when asking about gible too much 🙊
@dawn zealot Hai Power 😄 Wicca wicca woo 😄
Yes ^
@sullen mural On sydneypogomap? I see 4 of them, closest one to despawn is 7 minutes
It does not show gible on pokemap
@proud gyro Jk Hai has no power
@dawn zealot any other site u got buddy?
Hmm its failing me lol
Is the verison good?
120 seen no shiny gible
I prefer t-mobile
AT&T is my go-to
AT&T has a bad moveset
When will shiny hunt gonna start
Lol
True. But Verizon Wireless has to be the trashiest of the three
Based on CP and the 4x Flying
Am i the only person who uses "fake GPS routes"
Is pretty trash but 3 years and no bans
So if you have an issue, you report it to who?
still waiting shiny hunt begin 
get the role @pastel torrent so you can be notified.
Yup
@sly ridge done sir, but i dont know what to do
you don't have the role.
chilling and waiting kinda boring
head over to #bot_commands
You gotta wait
yup, got it
Anyone facing issues after the pogo app update of version 163.0?
It's laggy to me
many reports on TSR.
Some suggested not to update first
Man why is vrizion so far away to throw at
I'm still on 161.2
That's what I said about Palkia when he was resized @north mist
:I
is iPogo still safe?
why
just got iphone and i dunno what spoofing app to use
When is the next shiny hunt going to start ?
Lol
You will be notified when it does.
100 gible checks = no shiny 😭
relax, I did 200
Don't ask too much, you'll get in trouble. @reef mulch
M at 700 with only 2 shinies with same no. Of checks ppl have 12 its all in RNG
29hrs and 0 shiny
No rush, I'm positive we'll have a decent CD for it
hate rng
Is there any tricks for shiny hunt ( glitch)
No
@fallow viper all you need to know and perform are explained in pinned messages at #shiny_hunt
Lol
2000+ machamp too
shiny = luck
You missed it earlier @golden sundial
@river blaze I already got one with my alt
@river blaze I’m trying with my main lol
Ahhh okay
ispoofer not working!
Is it me, or have the legedaries gotten harder and more agressive lately?
I’m just waiting Zekrom and Reshiram to appear
No such changes were detected in the recent game master file of the new APK @kindred depot
is Ispoofer working?
@humble elm try consulting #android_ios_support
it is down.
and they need to give Lugia AeroBlast and Ho-Oh Sacred Fire as their signature move lol
edit. it might be up @humble elm
ok.
I don't see the red banner now.
@sly ridge thanks @sly ridge
make sure to mention 4 times next time 😋
@sly ridge It's up, can confirm
ty.
you were extremely confident saying it is down. tho
When would the next shiny hunt be?
it was down like 3 hrs ago so I had to Xcode.
Got 1 shiny gible at sydney
It’s ok I’m here
20 tries at terrakion, and i got... two, both with junk IV's-- everything else it'd either nearly always jump or attack immediately after i throw, or occasionally break out of the ball, even on excellent. :(
Is it true niantic now will collect data from where you are from AR mode🤔
@cyan ridge you may kindly DM an online verifier or candy hunter to ask when
spawns are also 🚮
lol.
just be patient and get the role.
Then your pretty much screwed if switching accounts lol
@limpid coral well in that case, disabling it would work fine
Guess what I found first 100iv the other day and got it posted in #100community
@ripe notch through settings? Why cant i see it, or am i blind lol
What is best counter for blaziken with blaze kick for 1500 league?
@barren verge pvpoke is better
Cause i bet they collects data even from a millisecond when ar is in after switching accounts lol
new background is lovely
On*
guys shiny hunt about to begin
@limpid coral there's an option yeah, right above PLAYER NOMINATIONS saying settings_ar_header
Finally. Been waiting for 4 hrs ever so patiently 😝
There's some weird legal stuff about anonymously collecting camera stuff like that so I doubt they are
@ripe notch wierd. For me it dont 🤔
@limpid coral have you updated yet, or on IOS
Because obviously niantic cares how your room looks like
they want feet pics
As well as everyone else on the internet
@sullen sluice according to data miners there is a new code which does that lol
@ripe notch game is updated
curious.
But ya... niantic prob thought about stalking is a no no lol
@crude thistle I heard they plan on showing the final cut in MTV Cribs. Unsure how legit that is.
Didnt*
?dex_100me
@bitter raven in #bot_commands
Has anyone got a Shiny Mawile recently?

Ij

*?dex100_me
I've done 100+ on alts and can't find one
Ok
I got so lucky with 1-star shinies on my alts
But somehow knew I'd have trouble with Mawile since I already have one
I'm 40 deep on shinx tonight and nada
Just getting one to prep for Shiny Mega Mawile whenever that comes
When is buddy adventure going to be live?
soon.
I shouldn't have been so lazy during that Mawile/Alola event 😣
hey guys the raid leader said to "Newbies kindly check pinned messages of this channel for info and Faqs" I am wondering where to find that
is it in #shiny_hunt ? at the top or something?
Look for the 3 dots on the upper right hand corner
kk thanks^^
Click it and click pinned. You're welcome.
So what’s the lowdown on Gible? Was it an official release? Do you guys think it might still get a CD for it? Anyone know? So many questions lol
Official and prob in Feb.
Ahh noice 😀😀
Yeah
Is that just speculation or have you heard something about a CD?
Spec on CD
Regigigas in ex raids on 26th dec right?
Ok
iirc
Anyone know if the Gible rate is still 1/50, or have they changed it?
I just added alt acc to ultra friends and i get an ex raid pass..on alt
finally got ✨
✨
Nice. I need 1 more.
If i invite my 2nd acc to ex raid can i invite my 1st account on another ex raid from 2nd account?
@dull sparrow Still boosted, I now have 4 of them haha
@white umbra yes
Only on one after 700 checks at the moment, which is why I asked
Okay
@dull sparrow Damn you must have some bad luck I think I’ve only checked about 200
#shiny_hunt 10 mins ..... Woohoo
Maybe it’ll turn around today haha 🤷♂️😅
@dull sparrow I’d think so! It’s definitely still boosted anyway lol
Almost 400 clicks.
Lol
You know what this discord needs
more cowbell?
Truthfully?
Nope
Ok then
They used to have VCs but due to some issues they removed it
VCs?
Voice chat
#shiny_hunt luck everybody!
How come sometimes the bot doesn't say what form the Unown is?
Heck no
unown is a J
@sly ridge would be funny to show a collage and shame all spoofers and their bedrooms
What
yea, including your cardboard box
lol
@fair storm I said sometimes. I know the most recent one is J
Hol up I love in a tin can
The shiny hunt will be rock
I'm not showing my pokemon PJs
Lots of people are knocking
everyone playing on their phones, going to be a bunch of blair witch half selfies
Off to shiny hunt. Can't keep a muted girl down, I mean a good girl down. Layers.
seriously why dont i have a settings to turn off ar 🤔
I had it before🤔
is gible still shiny boosted
Got my SHINY GIBLE in 4 clicks
@naive quest galaxy s9, galaxy s6 and iphone se lol😂
I miss the good old days of trashing eggs
@quiet walrus yes
Miss it too
0/250 now on shiny gible
Thank you @latent burrow
The funniest thing... my 6 year old plays pogo with me (legit) and has figured out that you can fill your dex just by looking at all the gyms you can (especially when out driving around). I think his may be more full than mine... LOL
Thanks @solemn flare My third Gible shiny
welcome 😄
Am I allowed to ask where a tyranitar raid is in here
Ok
What should I raid though
Ttars are good though
I wish there were still mewtwo a
ttar not in raids right now
most people either raid the current legendary boss
Oh dammit
or shiny possible raid bosses
I only got two ttars in the time they were in raids
ttar is garbage considering you can just snipe a L30+ 100 iv larvitar
and evolve it
Well I can’t because I’m lvl 26.8
.8?
well then, get to work and grind to 30
Ok
ride on th backs of other spoofers when raiding.
yea.
Imma join one I think
but raid daddy doesn't like to be referred to as a bot.
wait before throwing pass
fyi.
Lol xd
make sure others already went in
How van i grind the best stardust. I wanna trade my shiny gible but dont have enough kek
I found a Pokémon that I think is good so imma raid
And it’s cool
With others so yeah
raids pidove like a boss
Lol
Welp gen 5 is completed again for me
So is shiny gible only in eggs?
1/450 rate then?
no.
Boosted???
yes
1 in 50?
How can we get Unown ? and !
?
Or go fests ;)
@sly ridge is it super rare?
Yes
yea
I only dont have the ?
Giggles what are quickest field task to complete 🤔
idk.
@cursive cedar It seems like I would have had to have gone to an event on the other side of the world for it
Ye
transfer useless stuff. 2x candy is coming.
I'm try get my task badge before the year is out
Lol
I didn't know Alakazam spawned in the wild 🤔
Last time one was posted in #2600cp was almost exactly 9 months ago
Lmao
Must be rare
Just wasted so many balls to try catch this kygore
Hey guys
Just nabed a shiny gible off the hunt, super happy
Throw a non-nice/great/ultra throw you'll catch it first ball
Took me about 1 in 25
Plenty
Ive been throwing perfects
Ooh there's a Shiny Hunt going on right now
👀 
Wasted like 50 balls for trash iv kygore
Missed two hundo gibles while sleeping
I'd only shiny hunt gible of I could get a shundo
What happens if you accidentally attempted to buy something using ispoofer
@crude thistle 🙂
you can buy in ispoofer, just can't purchase coins
grrrr
Ik that
188 field task to go
I accidentally tried to buy coins
Yep
Where is a place with Alot of pokestops and spawns?
I'm not sure anything happens. You just can't complete the purchase
I need stardust kek
Can Riolu hatch from a 7km eggg?
@cursive cedar check pinned messages in here
ye
yes @sour hedge
@sour hedge yes
Ty @plucky nymph
Gible poosted?
Hmm
7 and 10
You have MY PROF PIC
@lime mistlol
lol
I will open gifts later giggles no longer on a break
no?
I value the eggs too.
Any1 know why it said in the Pokémon coords that I found a shiny wailmer
Also is mime jr still in 5km europe
yea
yes.
Anybody know the shiny rate of gible
1/50
hatched a shiny yesterday. 😊
Ty
between 1/50 and 1/70 anyway
yeye
Lol
guess it was intentional then
everywhere
Anybody know the shiny rate of gible in wild
jesus christ I give up
...
ahahah
@cyan ridge hey do you know the shiny rate of gible?
Anybody know the shiny rate of gible in wild?
😄
For speed chain do we have to like prepare/buy lots of raid pass to get in?
What is the shiny rate of charizard
ty
does anyone here know how to catch a shiny gible?
Why did u face palm my text
yea, you throw a ball at one
What
until you catch it
oh btw is impact fixed now?
Y u bully me
How do I spin pokestops, in the wild?
Delete the game and throw your phone away
Thanks it worked
@crude thistle that's funny... but seriously how do you catch a shiny gible? does it hatch or something?
no, you just catch it
they can be found in the wild
keep shiny checking #shiny_hunt
can anyone tell me when is the request reset?
No you gotta show the pokestop your thicc hips then it will come running
In soviet Russia, the pokestops spins you
@lime mist# what if I’m underage
Still do it
@sly ridge dam no lucky friends then
@plucky nymph it prefers young children 😉
Does anyone know why i cant join the raid even though i ve pass 2 hours cooldown?
Gym doesn’t like you
Did you touch anything? Like spinning gym or something
No
Cause really sounds like cooldown issue
He touched me
Anyone know a way to get gible coordinates
Oh alright
lies. u want gible's coords u need to ask from gible
What do u guys reccomend for android spoofing app?
Rooted phone
Alreasy have
Where’s the shiny hunt
does gibel have boosted shiny
We had things to solve
@candid flame #shiny_hunt
It will start in some mins
He said he would be back soon
I can’t click it
@candid flame maybe you aren't cool enough
I wonder what legendary we'll get after Virizion.
Pidgey

Jirachi
We'll see what they want to do with Keldeo
When
Considering they made Darkrai a regular legendary raid.
There's also the possibility of another round of the creation trio, but now they'll be able to be shiny.
I wanna get both
What do u guys use to spoof?
Yep im android that sucks
Then again, we still haven't gotten Manaphy, Shaymin, or Arceus.
Good point
Arceus will likely be an EX Raid boss
@magic lantern rooting is the best option for you then
My friends ar enraging about theirs
Direct download ispoofer still down?
Are bragging
I have root
Nah I hav ether direct link
Then gpsjoystick by appninjas
Imma try it
What are you using currently
Direct link
Nothing vecause im new
To the discord or Pokémon go
Pokmon go
Just started recently
What’s the code for bot command if i want to see the nest report, shiny hunt & trading categories??
Okay... Use gpsjoystick then ... And #android_ios_support can guide you further @magic lantern
Instinct Valor or mystic
Okay thanks
Read the pinned messages there for a guide on rooted spoofing
Y need some candy
@jaunty mountain commands are pinned in there
How to see the commands? @opal nebula
Do Alolan vulpine spawn in the wild
don't no
@lime mist no
First get the pokedex role by typing ?dex100_me in there
Lol amayk your buddies name
Thanks @solemn flare for shiny gible
What is?
👀
Gible deserve CD 😭.. i need shundo.. Pokémon i love the most
Wait lemme see what i have rn😂
@sly ridge i know so i asked where
It was the gible
Ahh the gible🤣
Mr 300 checks
@molten smelt Welcome
What you name it? @opal nebula
300 checks
" 300 checks "
Bet you don't have yamask shiny
No gible spawning
There was no way you can get yamask shiny under 450
Yes... I went 100-120 searches and gave up🤣
In Sw&Sh?
Yeah
Lol no
Start grinding
Shiny rate in main games is like 1/4850
Damnn
lv35 gible shiny for me 😄
Not compared to spoofing lol
Spoofing is easy if you have a feed
Plus masuda method is breeding only
If you don't it is only so so
after more than 100 checks.....not so easy for me to find it
Those are rookie numbers
What is
It was easy for you
I’m only checking high iv gibles at this point
is it alright to walk around a little bit durring Shiny hunts?
Now suddenly I do have the ar setting lol
Yes
@zenith dock yes... For me it loads faster
@zenith dock you can check around yes your wish
Drillbur nest anyone?
@stone steeple doesn't nest
Since u don’t compromise ur cd walk around at ur will
Oh ic thanks!
@limpid coral ar turns on when switching account
Then I just deactivate it lol
Yep but it's annoying
Does the spawn rate of Gible increased since it's shiny release?
Useful in shiny hunts... Can exit a little early
Yeah we rarely have hundo gibles spawning
People catching the low IV is why
And yesterday I saw 2 in a couple of hours
Android catch anything they see
@covert geyser that technical error, restart your game. It gets fixed
So shiny gible rate didn't drop? 2 rounds now still none, chose to end with that lv35...
How many checks?
RNG/LUCK
I got 4 under 400 checks
More than 100 i assume
I went 8192 checks yesterday and no shinies
0/700
Waaaat
Switching account
Ur unlucky
@neat tapir 👀
1000 is the number @charred heron
Cursed account
How long before a new spinda quest reset?
@opal nebula @dawn zealot thanks^^
@opal nebula no number. 8000+?
@oak thicket when the local time reaches 00:00 in the locations
Ok.will try alt...thanks
I mean a new shiny spinda be introduced....sorry @dawn zealot
I realized I worded by question wrong...
Probably never
What the heck is this Niantic demanding camera access now?
Well....gotta try that verizion mon for now...
I guess they change at 2-3 months
I don't think they are following a time cycle for spinda release
What is ✅ means in #shiny_hunt
Yes i use it to note copied coords
OK but it doesn't means you got a shiy
My loading screen is loading all the way and freezing what should I do . I'm on Android
@cursive pinenope
Nope @cursive pine
@shell maple new version?
Verizion
Yes
Maybe clear cache and ram... Force stop the pogo app and then try again...
What is @special?
What?
Yes
What Special Pokemon?
Pikachu
The mons having legacy moves
That aren't in the movepool rn
I've try clearing everything and restart my phone and it still freezing
What is the shiny rate of gible?
2
420/69
Nice
For every gible you get 6.08 shinies🤣
@opal nebula greatest mathematician 🐸
Thenku
Welcome bro
@teal sundial 1/50 or something is thrown around
Its still assumed to be 1/50 btw
🥄
Im at 505 checks 4 shiny
633 checks 2 shiny
Thx for letting us know
I will apply that knowledge
Adding salt to my wound
I'm hunting shiny gible and random check machop and it's a shiny
Si I dont think it is 1/50 more like 1/75 or 1/125
It’s 1/50
None of the odds can be confirmed
1/1
U just bad at rng
Source? @obtuse swift
@little kettle TSR
I think its 1/250
Source being the 50 gible I checked
Anyone has problem with odds go to TSR
lol
Think whatever you want... But you'll get it when its meant to🤣😅
What people don't get
Is that’s it’s 1/50 per check
The odds are only useful if they can be manipulated
I see complaining here helps in getting better odds but
any hints of mega evolution in pokemon go by niantic ?
bigger brain
Megas? No never lol
i wish if mega comes they must be able to revet to original form like main games
They won't
Gotta catch all 69 charizard forms
is there so many
Niantic has been keeping different ways to evo to a min
hundo chicken lol
why would'nt it be cool if mega comes
No
Nah
megas seems lazy to me
Megas are good in main games
And better
Not go
yeah agreed
They only way we get Megas is in 5 star raids
Then u being milked for passes
Red and blue suck sorry
Gen 1 is like most hated gen now
Yeah that’s why it’s hated
Game freak bumlicks the gen 1ers cos they spend money so we have like Kanto forms on crack
Almost every Kanto mon has a new form
Too much pandering
Seen charizard so many times it makes my eyes bleed
i have a good question to ask i hope some high level people are to know the answer
What do you think
Individual value
is it me or does anyone feel like the new 5 tier bosses (Virision, Terrakion and Cobalion) are poorly designed?
Welcome to gen 5
back in 2016 who remembers a mod apk for android spoof from tutu app
Very few good mons in gen 5
Yea... In pics before release terrakion seemed nice to me... But in game... Meh
Tao trio are the best
why is there no mod apk now for android like ispoofer
@balmy marlin well back in those days, I barely had the APK installed lol. Bot was farming itself all day on PC
When are the peak times for the lures at lure spots
When there’s lures on them
7/24 on margaret island & zaragoza generally
@warm thunder at budapest its always
@ripe notch do u still have that account which got farmed by bot ?
@balmy marlin yep
no strike on pokemons ?
I never knew that bot farming was ever a thing
All of them are now banned, but I still have the accounts 🙂
Basically all you needed to do is to type your login ID and password to a software, it was farming like crazy all day.
ok but why there is no mod apk for ndroid like ispoofer ?
No idea
Droid doodoo
oo
😂
cute Droid 😋
Missed
😂


guys, is the Raid hooh started? I saw it but only 5 minutes left
starts in 2 days
@ripe notch hola
Good morning, I assume you've had some dreams lol @fallow plaza
But i've seeing that in japan
😱
U seen wrong probs
@sonic citrus Ooo hi
Ooo
😋
Lol
gible rates still up?
And I op
Why tho
Lol
No
Jejebonks
2 accs perma banned
Oof
Oof
Oof
Ooo
One without even the first strike
What did u do
Literally nothing
Droid or ios?
Tp to the moon?
I bet android.
Ios
damn
👀
Oo
Never lucky..
@balmy marlin why do you think not all your alts got banned but only two?
What did u do different on those 2
No clue, I’ paitent with the cd’s on all, downloaded directly from the page
Tbh, i have no idea
That’s why im curious
It’s the gibles 👀
Well since it's too late, go ahead for a ban appeal
am already writting one
Wouldn’t they check your account tho and clearly see that you spoof
2nd shiny gible
👀
“I’ve cheated but im a changed man now” lmao
Upon deep analysis, they'll be able to keep track of literally all of your activities with each account tho, if you're lucky you'll be able to be told the 3rd party app that triggered the ban
Buddy update out?
Lol like that would work
@meager ferry not yet
perma ban means no more pogo?
Can anyone send me the link to download I spoofer for iOS
Indeed
Yes
@humble elm well you just just make a new account lol
I mean
Anyone team mystic?
me
The only thing i didn’t use
me
@balmy marlin even i don't
@vivid pond yes
I use it on 2 phones
I don't think anyone is spoofing after the first ban wave from VMOS
@open timber could you teleport to me and put a Pokémon in this gym?(it’s in Santa Monica pier
I'm softban
@meager ferry many
Ok
Oh well, taking a break from the pogo now i guess
@balmy marlin iSpoofer is what u used?
Yes
@balmy marlin live that life
Oh boy
Maybe there was a ban wave
Many? Wow
How can u tell
The balls lol
@manic vapor4
@obtuse swift well it seems like niantic has started to stalk people through ar
@manic vapor it can be traded
when
it's same as 2017 magikarp
?
what's going on? is there something about Niantic and a ban wave?
@obtuse swift they have begun to collect data from your real location through ar.
This is according to data miners
👀 👀 👀 👀
Shiny mega garchomp colour is good as compared to shiny garchomp
Damn it.. i'm stuck at loading screen with new version update
is my buddy
Is there a way of getting banned?
Mine is 
@vestal geyser clear all app data from settings and login again. (for pokemon go)
Then your fine. As long as you don’t press on a pokemon after switching accounts. Then you need to deactivate ar through settings before.
@lime mist messing up
How do I avoid messing up
god just imagine spending all that time catching mons and shiny hunting just to get banned
Yeah was permanent ban too
I guess you have to use real location when interacting with your buddy when the new buddy system arrives
I’m saying goodbye to ispoofer if I know that they can ban you easily
@lime mist you just gotta be more careful lol
Lol
Aanyone else caught that Shuppet L35 with cp 672 supposed to be cp945?
@fallen osprey are you under level 30
No I'm level 40
Idk then
@alpine junco
@fallen osprey oh.. Never throw balls or feed berries to pokemon if the encounter CP does not match with the CP shown at #100community
I’m level 26 but I’m special
weather change
Not boosted
I was so happy because it was shiny.
I was in 911
Weather change maybe
@alpine junco i have a question on priv
To be fair though, i dont know why Niantic would want to ban spoofers, we are most of the player base lol
Not most but a big enough chunk
@fallen osprey when did you encounter it?
Yes
5 min ago?
I'm hunting shiny gible and random click machop and it was shiny
Xx.58
Tip
now I'm softban
@fallen osprey I am pretty sure you've encountered after xx:00
I dnt have ar
Gud
Even took a screenshot which says boosted and shiny
@fallen osprey Weather changed at xx:00 which in turn nerfed its stats.
@lime mist why off
The shuppet was also reported 50 min ago.
Pm @ripe notch
@delicate falcon if you switch accounts the ar setting turns on automatically. Just deactivate it before catching
Because I heard that niantic can track your location with ar
And know that it’s not where the are I game
In
where do you hear this news?
Yeah they can
@runic kayak i got 2 bans, still tring to figure out what i did wrong
I dnt have ar mode my mobile is old
Was data mined
@balmy marlin do you use android or IOS?
Is gible 1/50
@PokeLegendz#4801 ya
Mine is just a iPhone 7
@balmy marlin u use AR?
I have android 2016 samsung j5 2016
@runic kayak ios on both, ocasionally itools @obtuse swift nope
