Factorio

[hasty flower]

So I finally decided to unlock the quality stuff and found out that rocket silos will not take higher quality parts. Unless I've missed something?

[rigid bramble]

you mean like higher quality resources?

(blue chips, LDS, rocket fuel)

you can't make quality rocket parts
but you should be able to send quality products to a platform

[topaz tide]

oh yeah theres a small list of things that dont do quality, watch out for those

[rigid bramble]

but you can fix that with a mod

though, not sure how it works for stuff like rails or concrete nvm that just places as normal

[topaz tide]

for those things its effectively useless to do quality on anyway

some floor tiles dont do quality

[rigid bramble]

I think they do, they just place the same regardless of quality

[topaz tide]

huh

maybe everything does quality then

but some just dont do anything

ah dont worry about me

[rigid bramble]

rails don't, neither does transport belt or trains by default

if you place a floor tile it'll lose its quality

[atomic aurora]

and fluids just dont have quality, period

[dapper monolith]

as seeds lose it as well 😦

[rigid bramble]

ermagerd pentapods, enough already
look, your swamp is literally made up of craters, just go home

[hasty flower]

Yeah was trying to make the rockets. Figured I'd try and go full ground up quality to make everything as high level as positive and turns out you can't make higher quality rockets

[hasty flower]

Is there an easy way to make an upgrade blueprint to just say increase quality? Like I guess you can manually input this to this but that feels like there should be an easier way

[umbral meteor]

not really, as you still need to select the item to upgrade,
but what i used myself were just make one for each quality level,
of the most things i wanted to always upgrade.

so say Assembler from Any Quality to Legendary, and so on.
and then store said Upgrade BP in your Global BP Library

you can do the same with modules as well, using the Upgrade BP

[topaz tide]

"changed piercing ammo to be cheaper" this will have drastic consequences

think of the poor speedrun leaderboards

[atomic aurora]

and not just a little pit cheaper, either

[rigid bramble]

whats the new cost?

the wiki has this

also remember the speedrun achievment needs a harsher map start

(or does it)

[topaz tide]

wow thats 1 copper plate per magazine

this thing used to be a copper vacuum

[umbral meteor]

so it has reduced copper cost by 60%, and that's about it.
the other things even each other out

makes 2 instead of one, but takes twice the time and twice the standard mags, so thats essentially 1 to 1

[topaz tide]

ohhh ok

i missed that part about yellow ammo

so its shifting it from taking copper to taking even more iron

[umbral meteor]

no, same as before

[topaz tide]

wait no its not

this is an interesting change

[umbral meteor]

it's essentially the old recipe -60% copper plate

just handled in a different way xD

[topaz tide]

funky

[umbral meteor]

Wait, it's an 80% reduction of copper

instead of 5 for one, it's 2 for 2, so that's 1 for 1

[atomic aurora]

it's also 1 steel for 2 mags, instead of 1 for 1

it's now almost even for iron/damage,c ompared to standard mags

[umbral meteor]

that did not show it whay duff posted xD

so i missed that one

that also explains why the change in production amount

the 2 for 6 seconds instead of 1 for 3 seconds,
due to the 1 steel for 2 ammo

[topaz tide]

i wonder what prompted this change

has red ammo been that much of an issue for people?

maybe its to combat people skipping military science often

[umbral meteor]

it's probably talked about in FFF, but i haven't followed that for quite a while xD

[atomic aurora]

not in my experience, and it already became less of an issue since SA, with both steel productivity and foudries

[topaz tide]

afaik the last fff was like many months ago

[umbral meteor]

that explains why i haven't seen any videos about it from Xterminator

[topaz tide]

oh, i see. so the other changes were concerning gleba spore absorption, it would make sense that making red cheaper is an effort to make gleba easier

i still haven't gone to gleba :)

or played factorio really

[umbral meteor]

oh yeah, the marsh, swamp and such having a much higher absorption of spores

[rigid bramble]

Red ammo does shit on Gleba just fyi...

Its not the production output thats the issue, its getting enough rounds down range to kill a big stomper before it kills your guns

I feel it would have been a nicer change to add a foundry recipe for ammo

[topaz tide]

cant you make it in foundries?

[rigid bramble]

No
Just assemblers

[hearty meteor]

does shit, or does shit?

[rigid bramble]

it throws faeces at the pentapods

[hasty flower]

I've been putting off going to gleba for so long that I'm trying to go full rare quality across the other planets lol. Also trying to see what Aavaak will do for his "final" version before leaving planet

[rigid bramble]

iirc he is at his final version in the vods

[bitter lark]

Hewwo fello engineers. I built myself a lovely omnismelter to fit in my train grid base, but I have realised a potential problem on the horizon: Furnaces can get stuck with insufficient ingredients if there's a demand for brick and/or steel.

No blue science yet, so inserters max stack size is 1. Am familiar with logic (my stations are pretty intelligent), but am stuck on where to start for this one.

Annotated version. (I have since updated to steel furnaces.)

[woeful geyser]

Best solution IMO would be to input the items into a chest, then apply combinator logic to set stack size/item filter?

[topaz tide]

oh yea that would easily work + having some buffer chests would be good

[dapper monolith]

How fancy 🙂 never tried an omni smelter before, i think road trains thought is quite close to what you want, i think

[topaz tide]

then you'd have to solve the problem of getting new stuff in when you're still working on old stuff, especially if that new stuff is different

oh actually since its sorted you already solved that problem

[dapper monolith]

think i would have attempted one input station but that also sound like another headache 😂 and a bit of latching comonator magic

[topaz tide]

you might be able to get away with just reading a belt and detecting which item it is, then having something hold that value until you see a new item and use that value to select your stack sizes and filters

latch yes thats the word

i think

[dapper monolith]

😂 close enough

yeah id just latch it with the output and then wait till the last belt is empty then start unloading again 😛 but i also have the habbit of doing over sized and complex builds 😂

[topaz tide]

also less related but steel furnaces would be nice to use less coal

[woeful geyser]

An expensive chest-less solution is to use the stack inserters from Gleba because they only swing with a full hand. Which means you can limit them to 5/2 for steel/stone brick respectively.

[topaz tide]

oh, another solution is you could dynamically set stack sizes based on how much is in the furnace. so if theres nothing in the furnace and you're smelting stone, the stack size is 2, but if it detecs 1/2 stone in the furnace set the stack size to 1 by reading whats in the furnace

however if theres no stone left it dont work

[woeful geyser]

That only works with electric furnaces.

[topaz tide]

you cant read from other types of furnaces?

[woeful geyser]

Not afaik

They're not electric so.

[topaz tide]

huh

id have probably waited for a little more tech before making an omni smelter

[pliant crystal]

I built an omni smelter on the multiplayer server, and an input chest using filtered (and stack limited -- all by logic) inserters was the way I controlled what got smelted.

[topaz tide]

oh like a buffer just before each furnace? that would increase size a lot but would easily solve any jamming problems

[pliant crystal]

One chest would serve two smelters, to cut down on footprint, too.

[umbral meteor]

should i update and boot up the Server, so Blueprints and the like is available to pick up?

[topaz tide]

whuhh??

[bitter lark]

Glad to see the hive mind thinks alike. I DM'd this to a friend before I went to bed.

Of course as I shut down my PC to sleep (yay nightshifts) I think of the solution for my factorio problem... So excuse me while I use you as a notepad:
Box between furnaces, inserter feeds filtered to stone/ironPlate. Boxes as end cap filtered to just one, depending on side.
Box to furnace only active if furnace content + box content > (2 stone OR 5 plate).

[topaz tide]

if there's both 2 stone and 5 plate how will you make sure it sticks to just one until its finished

[bitter lark]

It doesn't have to.

Inserters can't put in stone while there's iron plate inside and vice versa

It'll eventually run out of the ingredient once the output station has 20k of the resulting product on hand.

[dapper monolith]

I feel clocking the inverters based on the smelling mat would work wonders as well

[bitter lark]

Explain what you mean by "clocking"

[rigid bramble]

the solution is... blue science :p

also Kovarex has probably updated all his mods and got bored now xD

[bitter lark]

Why can't circuits read only input slots? Why it gotta be "Read contents" causing my steel furnaces to be fed iron if there's iron plates in the output?!
I thought it was watertight, until the output belt backstuffed.

[rigid bramble]

though if its being used in a craft its no longer in the contents, right?

[dapper monolith]

i just wish we could put combonators on splinters 😄

[bitter lark]

I feel like we're in a miscommunication, allow me to elaborate:

1. Furnace turns 10 Iron ore into 10 Iron plates
2. Output belt is full, 3 iron plates stay behind in the output slot.
3. "Steel/Brick box" has 2 iron plates.
4. Inserter detects 5 iron plates total, and starts moving iron plates into furnace to make a steel.
5. Output belt clears up, 3 iron plates leave the output slot.
6. "Steel/brick box" is empty, furnace has 2 iron plates and is locked to steel.

[rigid bramble]

ah right I see

I guess you just need to use more Steel xD

[bitter lark]

Problem isn't needing to use more steel, it's that the iron gets backstuffed.

[rigid bramble]

I feel there must be a way to keep the exit clear, even if its a buffer chest maybe

[bitter lark]

I'm doing a bunch of rewiring.

[umbral meteor]

Tyrope, there IS an option to read output buffer, and deny a new craft until that is emptied

using some logic

[bitter lark]

Iron ore can now no longer enter the system, unless:
The iron plate supply is low OR
The steel plate supply is low AND the average amount of iron plate in the "steel/brick boxes" is below 5 (they're set to fill up to 10 now, was 100 which is why the average is so high)

[bitter lark]

This will only ever output both in+out. How do you propose to split those signals?

Unless you count every item that goes in and memory cell it, but that's a footprint I'm not okay with.

[umbral meteor]

Yeah, it is a combination of using "Recipe Finished" and "Read Contents"

[bitter lark]

Oh, I see. use the "Read recipe finished" pulse in an arithmatic, multiply by -5, output as iron and send it to the count.

... still too bulky tho.

[rigid bramble]

or only let it input if the recipe is finished and it is empty?

[bitter lark]

"recipe finished" is a pulse.

You'd need to latch it.

[umbral meteor]

^

[bitter lark]

And given any time that pulses there is garunteed to be 1+ item in the output... that logic will never return true.

[rigid bramble]

have it trigger a constant combinator or something, idk this is all above my pay grade xD

[bitter lark]

Even more confusing now is that sometimes, but only sometimes, the inserters decide to take iron/copper ore from the furnace and put it on the output belt?

[rigid bramble]

gotta watch those inserters like a hawk

you never know when they might just snatch something from a passing robot

[bitter lark]

I triple checked, that belt's only input is those inserters, and yet...

[rigid bramble]

maybe you need to filter them, brute force I know

[topaz tide]

gonna be hard to tell if they're doing the same for iron or steel

[bitter lark]

AHA! But.. how?

[rigid bramble]

probably changing recipe mid craft

[bitter lark]

One doesn't set a recipe in furnaces.

They just smelt whatever they're getting.

[rigid bramble]

something they added in 2.0 is a 'waste' slot

[bitter lark]

Yeah. I know it's the waste slot.

I just don't understand how the ore ended up there.

It should've been smelted.

[rigid bramble]

my thought is something made it change its mind

[rigid bramble]

well I return to pentapod spam

also my mining brick, kinda liking how it performs so far

killing it out there, in the remains of Vulcanus

[topaz tide]

the planet broke before the worms did!

[rigid bramble]

they dug too deeply, too greedily

[rigid bramble]

say, with arty, can I set auto-fire on/off via circuits?

[dapper monolith]

you can load them with it which will have a similar effect, out side of that not played with arty and logic too much

[rigid bramble]

hmm, did they update the molton metal icons?
the pot (crucible?) seems more blueish

apparently its called a 'ladle'

[topaz tide]

oh yeah that is really blue

man the factorio devs really cant decide on what icons they like

did they make the copper ones orange

[rigid bramble]

more orange it seems, but I didn't actually look

and the wiki hasn't been updated yet

though it is the ladle that is blue, not the material in it, cus I'm sure any sufficiently hot metal looks the same white hot

[atomic aurora]

Technically, the liquid iron should be whiter than the liquid copper, since the melting tem of iron is so much higher. But seeing as copper and iron ore are the colors that they are, I don't think realism is a factor for the devs

[rigid bramble]

well realistically raw Iron comes in like half a dozen variants, or so I've found in my limited research

[dapper monolith]

The real question is: is your factory still growing?

[rigid bramble]

I might need to rethink my artillery plans

[dapper monolith]

the lack of land on an island Nauvis, is an interesting issue for a mega base 😄
seems it will be power and lab only 😂

Been doing another 5 wide engine module for space, anyone got thoughts on it

still need the pump logic to better manage the fuel 😄

[rigid bramble]

Lasers?!

[dapper monolith]

yeah find them good enough for most cases between the planets

i tend to have guns up front and lasers on the sides seem to do the job

[rigid bramble]

but back to the landing pad, is it supposed to be a passive provider?

[umbral meteor]

if you mean the planet space hub thing? then yes.

[rigid bramble]

this thing

cus mine appears to be defective

[rigid bramble]

but its ok, I have my new armour

[bitter lark]

hol' up. That's illegal.

Biters can't fly either.

(Also, only uncommon rarity? Recycle that thing into a rare at least, c'mon man)

[rigid bramble]

Strafers can still hit it with its live ammo

plus I don't really need more HP or grid size - with 2x rare legs it gets up to like 500kmh

[umbral meteor]

too slow xD

it's a big map

[dapper monolith]

its not a static ship 😛 but lasers will do for when its parked (hopefully) 😄 and im at quite a high laser damage level now

[hasty flower]

Can labs use various quality science packs or do they all have to be the same level? I.e. can I have a rare red science in the same lab as a common green and still do research?

[rigid bramble]

they can use whatever you stick in them, since the beakers are an end product

though it might still be better with prod modules

[hasty flower]

Cool I wasn't sure after finding out the hard way you can't use quality on rocket parts

[rigid bramble]

thats cus rocket parts don't have a quality xD

if you Alt + click on something it'll open the factoriopedia page
and on there it'll tell you how quality affects it, if it does

[bitter lark]

They're not mutually exclusive.

Oh wait, you mean prod on the flask assembly, not the labs

[rigid bramble]

Yeah there is some math on the wiki to say you can get more overall SPM if you prod the flasks rather than quality modules

Of course, that doesn't take into account quality material

[rigid bramble]

Say, how long would you reckon base factorio taked to beat? 20h, 30h or closer to 90h?

[bitter lark]

It Depends™️

[hearty meteor]

8 hours, obviously ;P
I think I took 60 hours to beat Factorio the first time, including some restarts.

[dapper monolith]

I take ages to beat it but I'm also A mega baser so they tend to get out of hand real fast 😄

[rigid bramble]

But like a 1 and done rocket launch

[atomic aurora]

I'm very distractible, so even my last run before SA took something like 60 hours, but I was also trying to do the lazy bastard achievement, so I was going slower than usual. SA took me 180 hours, though I had everything I needed to finish somewhere around 160

[dapper monolith]

i can't do a one and done i must make my cpu hurt 😄

[topaz tide]

well i took like 500 hours of playtime to get to a rocket cause i kept restarting, but the run only took 20 hours

i could probably do it faster if i wanted to but usually my brain gets fried from this game pretty quick

ive got like a mental block for factory games atm, i boot up shapez 2 and my brain is just shouting at me like "this is the worst i hate it here make it stop"

its very strange i dont really get it

[rigid bramble]

but check #chit_chat xD

[hearty meteor]

Hey, how about https://factoryio.com/? ;P ||(It's mostly a joke)||

[umbral meteor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gikrR2Xuvvs

[icy trench]

hello factorio professionals. i have never beaten factorio, not even before space age for context, and i am having trouble and a half in my factorio world. my base is limping along with very low production because of a shortage of oil and almost no stone left over; however, all the oil and stone is very far away and covered in biter nests and they're too evolved for me to effectively take out that many. help

[bitter lark]

Deploy the dakka

[icy trench]

dakka?

[icy trench]

don't believe i've got that researched yet, i'm afraid

[bitter lark]

Got grenades?

[icy trench]

ah but wait almost no flamethrowers for me because no oil

yes

[bitter lark]

Stop science.

Let your factory rest, deal with the immediate issue first

[icy trench]

i've sent my first few rockets to space, got space science all set aside, but no yellow science yet because blue circuits are annoying and god help me i don't have red circuits as is

and it's very difficult for me to build a wall around anything because oh hey no stone left

[icy trench]

sir yes sir

[bitter lark]

Two options, depending on your style:
Flamer tonk.
Grenade car.

Wanting to keep your science flowing is a very understandable trap, but evolution is a combination of time and pollution. If the nests don't feed, they can't spawn as much.

[icy trench]

hm ok

i'll try both out. problem is, nearest oil patch is out where the biter bases start getting to the "ridiculous" size - the ones where i reveal em on the map and immediately u-turn to go stare at science production until i feel better

[bitter lark]

If you have any trickle of oil, you can redirect 99% of it to flamer fuel.

[icy trench]

gotcha. stone is less defended, fortunately. i think the game plan is:

• stop science so help me god
• kill the biter bases right next to the stone patch because of course there's a few biter cities just sitting next door
• acquire more stone, bring it in by train and make walls
• take out any biter bases that i can by the oil patch until i can get a little box around my oil
• just pump it back to the base through a pipe

so, quick question. i have driven around with the tank before with flamethrower fuel, and my biggest problem is that it just hits everything, slows down, gets hit with spitter stuff, and then it's a death spiral from there. any tips to avoid that aside from just getting good at piloting the tank?

[bitter lark]

I've never used flamers. But I find having a gunner on board helps, yay for multiplayer

[pliant crystal]

You can also lean on the goold ol' turret creep method.

If you have space stations set up, that's a huge plus, because with relatively little investment they can keep your iron / copper flowing pretty much forever.

Even if only at a trickle.

So, if you find yourself struggling with tanks getting slowed down and dying, you could try to drive close to the base (but not so close as to activate it)

Lay down some turrets, fill them with ammo, the amount is up to you (and often comes down to trial and error till you get a feel for how much you need to deal with whatever level of threat you're trying to clear) then once they're in a nice clump, hop back in the tank.

Now your aproach should be to drive in ever broadening circles, with the terrets inside your turning circle; effectively orbiting the turrets, with each 'orbit' moving closer into the enemy's base.

On each pass, do a bit of damage, it'll ellicit a reaction, and before it gets too hot, orbit back around the far side of the turrets, letting them mow down the defenders before your orbit brings you back around into range to attack the base again.

Your focus with this strategy should /alway/s be the bases. The worms, even big worms, will have a hard time accurately predicting where to shoot to hit the tank (by orbiting you're never moving in a straight line, but the worms and spitters /always/ try to predict where to shoot assuming you WILL be moving in a straight line)

In summery; turrets with your best ammo exist to mop up the defence crews the hive will spawn; the tank exists to eliminate the hive buildings when they're in range, with a strict priority list of > spawners > worms, and once you've eliminated all buildings in range of your current orbit, you expand it a bit closer to the base again and repeat until everything is dead.

Hope that helps :)

This works nomatter what ammo the tank is using, or if you're just driving a car and leaning out to shoot things with your pistol. (though if you're using a car, grenades are your best bet if you can get them!)

[rigid bramble]

Copper in space might be an issue if they haven't got to another planet
but if you have got other planet tech you can even make oil in space

[pliant crystal]

oh, good point!! I forgot that you can't get copper until deeper in the research tree; but iron will still be available (as will carbon, for steam turbines, meaning you can possibly save come coal for grenades)

But even with iron, you have an effectively inexhaustible supply of basic ammo.

[rigid bramble]

I would suggest cannon shells or rockets, but they both need oil products
though another option is speed modules on the oil pumpjacks you do have (since it'll last forever technically) and then production modules in anything that uses oil and its products - though you will take a hit with power usage

[pliant crystal]

They mentioned they lack blue / red circuits (I forget off the top of my head, but think those would be needed for modules)

Rather, they said they have a very small supply, so probs same issue as oil.

To fix the dwindling supply, you'd need more supply, so it's a vicious circle.

[rigid bramble]

I assumed they had a trickle of oil at least, enough to make blue science

[pliant crystal]

They detail their situation a few posts up, worth a read.

[rigid bramble]

Yeah, to me sounds like they have the ability to launch rockets, or had

[pliant crystal]

Bit of an assumption, but not an unreasonable one; I tend to be a bit more precise with my language and assume the same of others -- they said they have sent rockets, past tense, which offers no useful information as to whether they still could.

But since it costs nothing to send things back down from space once you have production up there, the iron / carbon being produced to make space science can be repurposed and just sent down as is (as they mentioned they'd pause science for now)

[bitter lark]

Yeah, Turret creep using basic ammo made in space (to completely eliminate planetary pollution!) is also a valid option.

Hadn't thought about that.

Actually, does a landing pad create pollution on Nauvis?

[topaz tide]

if you have a tank, tanks R great!!

try using regular cannon shells instead of explosive, they have amazing damage and pierce, excellent at taking out bases

then just use your tank flamer for biters that get too close

also if you're able use rocket fuel in your tank, going faster helps you outrun the biters

[rigid bramble]

I'd argue explosive is better for biters
The splash helps the hordes

[topaz tide]

its better for biters but its so slow against bases

my strategy using regular shells is just do circles and take out the bases first, largely ignoring the biters unless i need to clear them

plus it avoids the grievous self damage you take from explosive shells

[icy trench]

ah i should have clarified. i can (probably) still send rockets - i haven't had to in a while, since space science is completely backed up, but it shouldn't take too long for me to get an iron supply down at the base. i hadn't thought of using space iron for bullets, though, thank you. and, re: circuits, i do have red and blue circuit production, but since red circuits are red circuits and blue circuits require sulfuric acid and probably oil products in some way that i forget about, i don't have many of them. i can speed module the pumpjacks, though. thanks

[rigid bramble]

Speed is probably the best for a depleted oil well

If it wasn't SA, Coal liqufaction is probably the best option

[bitter lark]

Red chips use plastic, aka oil, as well.

[icy trench]

ah right ok cool

i can still scrape a few off the top for modules, though. i have plenty "stockpiled" (read: sitting on the belts)

[rigid bramble]

Don't forget to prod everything

[hearty meteor]

I've always liked to have some poison capsules with me when dealing with biter nests once they get to a certain size. Throw enough poison capsules in there while circling around with a tank or car, run away while the poison kills the worms, come back and take out the spawners without as much acid damaging you

[dapper monolith]

I never thought is see the day where my base was limited by underground belt 😂

[pliant crystal]

Solid advice from Duffelfish though, on the speed modules. Not sure if it's better to use prod while the wells are still reasonably full, but once they are depleted (by Factorio standards... oilwells being functionally infinit and all) then speed all the way.

[rigid bramble]

Depends if you throw in some beacons, and how rare everything is

2.0 did increase the power of beacons threefold, so maybe prod the well and have a speed beacon next to it

[umbral meteor]

Duff, are you a legendary fish?

because i need one xD

figured i could just grab you and skip the grind

[bitter lark]

Just upcycle it

[rigid bramble]

you need to reach the next stage to get me

[umbral meteor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iGygoynrwU

[topaz tide]

[bitter lark]

Hey, I know that emote!

[umbral meteor]

yes you do 😄

[dapper monolith]

you can also do it with a hexagon 🙂 city block 😄

[topaz tide]

i saw someone who did triangle city blocks

it was a huge megabase too

[dapper monolith]

monsters all of them 😂

[topaz tide]

ah that one menu simulation of the pentapods spoilings and the alarm sounding always - every time - breaks me out of whatever train of thought i was in, because the alarm is the same as my wake up alarm

if i knew how to change the menu simulation i would do it so fast

[topaz tide]

very nice new feature

i dont know what compound bonus rate means but it does mean turn faster by some amount, which is nice

[atomic aurora]

If I had to assume, it's whatever the offset to 100% is. So if the fuel gives 20% more acceleration, tank turns 5% faster.

[topaz tide]

ahh that makes sense

[dapper monolith]

yup, after all who want to be in a tank that goes 100MPH but can only turn 90 deg every 100 miles

[topaz tide]

was just watching some factorio and i had a thought. why bother with capturing all those asteroids when you can just grow your own ores using bacteria from gleba

[bitter lark]

Because Gleba rockets and cargo bay extensions are a big bottleneck.

[topaz tide]

i was talking about shipping up some bacteria and growing it on your ships

[bitter lark]

Doesn't that require nutrients?

[topaz tide]

oh

darn

well it was a cool idea at least

it might still be possible shipping up bioflux but that makes it a bit more of a pain

means youd need something like an interrupt when you run out of bioflux or it rots

at least bioflux lasts a while

you could even use quality bioflux for it to last longer

this all assumes that you can even breed bacteria on a spaceship and a biochamber can be placed on it

[bitter lark]

If you're shipping bioflux up, the bottleneck remains.

[atomic aurora]

also, bacteria can only be made on gleba itself

[rigid bramble]

Are rockets really a bottleneck on Gleba?

[bitter lark]

It's the combination of silos and landing spots on the platform

Idk how many bacteria/ore fits in 1 rocket.

[rigid bramble]

wouldn't that be the same issue on any planet though

[bitter lark]

Yeah, it would be.

[rigid bramble]

(500 ore or 1000 plates per rocket btw)

[bitter lark]

How about bacteria?

[rigid bramble]

1000 says the wiki, which I find a bit off tbh

[bitter lark]

So hypothetically, sending up bacteria is smarter than ore.

But honestly, Volcanus is the real place one should turn into a forgeworld.

[rigid bramble]

unless it spoils in the rocket

[bitter lark]

Given Gleba doesn't care about pollution, and power is free (just feed the heating tower fruit products), sending up plates is more failsafe.

[rigid bramble]

I'd want to see the setup that produces, fills a rocket, and launches iron bacteria in under a minute xD

[topaz tide]

i wonder what happens if the bacteria spoils while in flight

does the ore rain down in a glorious mineral hail

[atomic aurora]

the issue with sending bacteria in a rocket is that if they spoil while the rocket fills, the spoilage products have to be cleared and replaced with fresh bacteria before the rocket can launch, which gives time for more bacteria to spoil

[topaz tide]

yeah sending plates would be just as efficient without all the headache

[atomic aurora]

literally only takes 50 (less because you also have a chance of getting a chunk back and might have productivity) metallic asteroid chunks to equal that amount of iron, which in a moving ship of any size takes almost no time.

[rigid bramble]

see thats why you have to create, fill, and launch within the spoilage timer

[atomic aurora]

on my mid-to-end-game ships, I literally throw away so much iron cuz I need copper for AP ammo

[topaz tide]

ive been wondering whether its better to just make more rocket turrets and use explosive rockets

simplifies your ammo production a bit by using less types

[rigid bramble]

imo, you can just survive with yellow ammo, and suitable physical damage research

[pliant crystal]

i'll likely update my ships at some point to have rockets for anything medium or big, guns for anything small or medium, and lasers for anything small.

[atomic aurora]

now, the issue with explosive rockets is that the turrets are not smart enough to not target rocks around the target of an in-flight exp. rockets

[pliant crystal]

I believe there's also huge asteroids and one more weapon, if memory serves me from browsing the tech tree.

[rigid bramble]

Aavak you need to visit Vulcanus first xD

[atomic aurora]

same, except no guns for me at the end-game, as one rocket is enough to kill one medium asteroid

[rigid bramble]

ah but what about nukes...

[atomic aurora]

and even if the rocket turrets are overwhelmed with bigger rocks, enough lasers will deal with the odd medium asteroid well enough

[rigid bramble]

what level of damage research are you on? O.o

[atomic aurora]

I don't remember, but around 10? by the time rockets kill a big asteroid in 2 (or 3? again, don't remember) rockets, smalls are already well within 1-shot range. excluding promethium asteroids, since they have twice the health

[rigid bramble]

I've heard you need 7 in explosive for a 2 shot, and possibly about 15 for one shots

I do know with enough laser damage research you can one shot a big stomper with just PLDs

(but its probably better to use Discharge Defence)

[atomic aurora]

3-shot large at level 8, one-shot medium at level 5, according to the values on the wiki. though from what I remember, turrets somehow get double the bonus damage, so it'd be level 7 to 2-shot big, and level 4 to 1-shot medium asteroids (excluding, once again, promethium asteroids)

[rigid bramble]

yeah turrets get a damage modifier too

[topaz tide]

using nukes for breaking asteroids sounds very fun

youd need a good quality rocket turret to keep the blast radius away from your ship but it might be possible

[rigid bramble]

there is a meta to reach shattered planet with nukes

[atomic aurora]

doesn't the nuke also increase the weapon's range, though? for that exact reason?

[rigid bramble]

the problem I feel is hitting the asteroid before it is close enough for you to get hit by the shockwave

[bitter lark]

Huge, and rail guns.

Rail guns are basically required to deal with huge rocks due to their resistances.

[pliant crystal]

After a night's sleep I thought of plenty of ways to improve the station loading / unloading times.

[rigid bramble]

Trains, the final frontier

[atomic aurora]

if only you could run trains to the other planets...

[rigid bramble]

idk, I'm happy it didn't go the SE route of trainships

[dapper monolith]

yeah SA and SE are different enough and i personally like it that way though I'm not looking fowerd to migrating my 0.7 SE base to 0.8 that will be a big job 😄

[woeful geyser]

Correct.

[topaz tide]

the factory grows

at about 3 hours of playtime now, should be able to get offworld soon

[umbral meteor]

⚡

[dapper monolith]

I can't wait till SE is ready for 2.0 ill be hosting a server for it if any one wants to join in on that madness. 🙂

[bitter lark]

Idk if SE will get updated, because the SE mod dev was hired by the devs to make SA.

[dapper monolith]

they are working on it alredy...

[bitter lark]

Neat.

[dapper monolith]

it's curently in closed testing 🙂 as its a bit broken for 2.0 but they do have it "running" enough to test it

[rigid bramble]

Yeah whatshisface was always planning more SE, since it is markedly different to SA

Though I imagine SE won't be using anything from SA like the space platforms, or the planets

[dapper monolith]

atm they are just moving over to the new API where they can as far as the dev notes have mentioned. but i cant see them not using some of it just not all like the new world gen would add more options for hazardous planets

Though I still wonder if you could make clustorio work for planet surfaces that would be a fun way to see how far you could scale a factory 😂

[hearty meteor]

Earendel have stated that SE will be incompatible with SA, from what I have heard. So nobody will need the expansion to play SE from what I understand

[bitter lark]

Incompatible with, or not requiring?

[hearty meteor]

Both. Well, the first one by definition implies the second too

[bitter lark]

Right.

[hearty meteor]

Left?

[dapper monolith]

Up?

[hearty meteor]

Down

A, B, Select, Start

[dapper monolith]

Spidertron unlocked

[rigid bramble]

It won't use SA code or assets I'll say
But that's not to mean Earendal doesn't make something similar

But I think they like the idea of space elevators, and space docks more than just space platforms

Also iirc the ability to make multiple surfaces has existed way before SA and is by no means unique to it

[dapper monolith]

it will have to use SA code IS the new modding API and the game and mods generally use different langs unless your insane and wanna write an entire interface layer ie C++(game) -> lua (interface) -> C++ crazy modder

[hearty meteor]

Nope, Factorio 2.0 itself is perfectly fine for modding, no need for SA stuff at all

[dapper monolith]

I was not clear i was meaning the 2.0 Modding api

[hearty meteor]

One would only need SA if one actually wanted to use the things from SA. You can even use the features Wube added to Factorio which isn't in the executable those who haven't bought the expansion without needing to activate SA either. But you need the 2.0 executable you only can get if you have bought the expansion, and a mod that itself allows you to use the new features; https://mods.factorio.com/mod/enable-all-feature-flags

[hearty meteor]

But that still doesn't require Space Age, since 2.0 itself doesn't require SA

[dapper monolith]

That is why i said i was not clear... as i made a mistake

[hearty meteor]

I'm assuming you mean that "it will have to use SA code" is the wrong thing here, then?

[dapper monolith]

🤦 Do you want me to clarify my clarification?

[hearty meteor]

Yeah, actually. Nothing in what you wrote there seemed clear to me, really.

EDIT: It becomes funny in a way that you end up calling me essentially "the most patronizing person in a long time" when you've basically made a "this should be obvious, why aren't you understanding things" (according to your later explanation) comment to me asking if I got things correctly now.

Punctuation might've helped make it more understandable, too

EDIT: Note that I only made this comment after I'd made it clear that the message this whole thing was about wasn't understandable. The other previous messages by Tiny_Goliath were clear enough even without proper punctuation that I didn't comment on it. So it's about one specific message being extraordinarily difficult to understand, not about being a stickler for punctuation and such for its own sake (although I do really prefer when things have proper punctuation since it's less difficult to read things that way)

[dapper monolith]

Now you are just being a bit of an ass. but ill humor you last request. Yes, I meant the 2.0 modding API not SA Modding API.

[hearty meteor]

I'd argue against your claim that I'm being a bit of an ass. I'm really saying what you wrote is hard to parse and understand, and you used 🤦 towards me when I asked a clarifying question about what in particular you meant you weren't clear about because you made a mistake. I'd probably peg that emoji use as more of a condescending than me pointing out how punctuation would help you not confuse other people.

You haven't changed/edited it to not say "Sa code" in the original message either, which contributes to it being confusing what you meant was the mistake

[umbral meteor]

now that's a way cut down version of the Konami code xD

[hearty meteor]

Yup, very cut down

For modern audiences

[umbral meteor]

i know the code by heart, even though i have actually never used it.
never had any original Konami games on NES.
had some on a "190 in one" cartridge, but most of those had cheats built in xD

or rather, there were 100 games where 90 of them were repeated with built in cheats.

[dapper monolith]

I had the same thing for the GameBoyAdv. 🙂 it was good fun till it messed up the saves, I was not a happy kid that day 😂 the joys of needing A battery to keep you saves.

[dapper monolith]

@hearty meteor look I don't like having to explain this to everybody as it quite tiring, and I just don't mention it most of the time. but as this is the second time we have clashed, i will. I unfortunately have both dyslexia and dyspraxia, which ends up making spelling, typing, and reading quite hard so I tend to miss a lot of punctuation as I'm more focused on getting the spelling correct but when I'm called out on it in what I read as A sassy tone/way I do get snappy as it's kinda tiring most of the time.

The facepam was more of I'm asking what should be rhetorical but asking it anyway. I'd still say "Punctuation might've helped make it more understandable, too" come across as patronizing and maybe A bit smug.

[hearty meteor]

It's unfortunate that you feel that way, but I was quite simply stating what I saw as a fact with how what you wrote didn't make sense as written. Without the punctuation it becomes even more difficult to understand what you meant to convey

I am personally quite fond of all the tools that help me avoid making spelling mistakes myself, even though I'm generally quite good at avoiding them. But the red squiggle underneath some words can help me too

Since you haven't edited the original I'm still quite confounded as to what it was actually meant to convey too

[dapper monolith]

It has been along time since I have met anyone as patronizing as you, as such this will be the last time I interact with you.

[hearty meteor]

I am also extending you more slack than other people, otherwise I'd have been nagging on your spelling and such a lot more.

Oh dear.
Well, that's a shame that you felt that I was patronizing, but if that's how you feel then that's how you feel, and if you do exactly was you say you won't get another impression either. I'd wager most of it comes from misunderstanding or assuming things in the reading of it more than any actual patronization from me, since I did not intend to be patronizing, but I wanted to know what was actually meant to be conveyed.
I really thought you were more reasonable than that from what I'd gathered from interactions with you previously.
It's unfortunate that the whole thing started from you seemingly saying that SE would require SA code and me saying that it shouldn't, and you not updating the originating comment to make it clearer when asked about it. Especially since I made it clear that it wasn't clear to me, even with what you refer to as clarifications.

[topaz tide]

been making some rails to expand to an iron patch when i realised, why dont i just go to vulcanus already

then i dont have to bother at all with expansions

[hearty meteor]

Can't you just make asteroids into iron and send that down to avoid more expansions?

[topaz tide]

yeah thats a good idea, gotta get there first

[hearty meteor]

Space should be a shorter trip than Vulcanus, right?

And space above Nauvis is "safe" or something like that, isn't it?

[topaz tide]

yea no asteroids to smash into my platforms there

brain is complaining though so i think i gotta take a break from the factory

[hearty meteor]

Sucks when the brain is complaining, but it's important to listen

I like how someone wrote about maintenance; "Schedule time for maintenance, or the machine will schedule it for you"

[topaz tide]

its like it wants something but fun videogame is right there

i dont really get it

[rigid bramble]

Wow, handbags at dawn for you two xD

[dapper monolith]

I'd call it A somewhat polite disagreement but it's done and dusted so lets leave it there 🙂

[umbral meteor]

anyways, i really should go back to factorio at some point.

played a bit too much with Platformer and burned myself out

want to go back to COI as well, but the constant patching is annoying me...

[rigid bramble]

I think there is another mod where its just space

and I was just commenting on the drama xD

[umbral meteor]

throws squeaky toy hammer at duff

[rigid bramble]

nvm that mod is platformer

only gleba was fun, if a bit challenging

[umbral meteor]

no thanks xD

[rigid bramble]

with a few extra mods, you too can carve out a niche in gleba

[dapper monolith]

I for one am not a fan of gleb, mostly due to how i build 😂 (yes, it's a skill issue)

[umbral meteor]

when i played through SA, i more or less handcrafted my way through Gleba xD

[dapper monolith]

i did to start but i had to scale it so i have mostly automated it now

[atomic aurora]

I kinda want to re-do gleba, cuz by the end it was a mess of belt spaghetti, but I liked most of my solutions for semi-expandable production

the only reason I havent yet is because 1.: I'm not about to rip down and remove a system that works, and 2.: a new run is going to be dozens and dozens of hours before I even get to gleba again, and I haven't been able to get much momentum going on a new save

[umbral meteor]

ALL the mods xD

[dapper monolith]

Yeah I'm trying to rebuild gleb, I can't sus out away to make a train base make sense for most of it:'D

[topaz tide]

maybe if you can just produce a ton of fruits then you'll load a train fast enough for it to work

or maybe just put your train on a time based schedule rather than cargo

[dapper monolith]

that's one option then you still need to manage the spoilage somehow 😂 kinda what makes it fun

[topaz tide]

ahhh i gotta get to gleba already

[dapper monolith]

its like how valcanus can be a fight to keep power up if you scale too hard without cliff explosives 😂

[topaz tide]

lol my base is such a mess a biter ran in and got shot and i couldnt even find the turret

[umbral meteor]

never had that issue once i found the acid to steam recipe xD

[topaz tide]

my spaghetti... so strong

ahaha you can't hide from me uranium

[hearty meteor]

I like your tagliatelle.

[umbral meteor]

noms pasta

[topaz tide]

oops

first expansion is live

[umbral meteor]

it's fine, you will eventually need them xD

[topaz tide]

yikes i put that all down without accounting for the power it uses

but at last, glorious ore is here

and soon ill have nuclear to solve all my problems

[umbral meteor]

Time to Pave the World with Solar

or P.W.S

xD

[topaz tide]

green power!

reactors are cooking

[bitter lark]

I don't think that means what you think it means.

[topaz tide]

its green

as opposed to blue power or yellow power

:p

[dapper monolith]

MORE POWER!

[topaz tide]

i am an exceptionally poor car owner

2-3 cars eaten, one blown apart by a shotgun because i mistook it for a rock while shooting trees

[dapper monolith]

If only I could not drive mine in to worms... it would help keep them alive

[rigid bramble]

just put shields in it...

[dapper monolith]

no my car need more legs so it can go faster 😄

[topaz tide]

my car isnt advanced enough to have shields in it :<

[topaz tide]

really loving the turn boost they added to fast fuels

biter island

[hearty meteor]

Biter zoo island, I see

[topaz tide]

a prime target

[bitter lark]

I smell an artillery testing range coming.

[topaz tide]

i have other plans for them actually

much more profitable plans

[topaz tide]

smelting has been electrified

oh i forgot lights

bright

[dapper monolith]

look'in like a good wee factory 🙂

[topaz tide]

ill get to space eventually :>

[dapper monolith]

Just enjoy the trip in the ever expanding factory 😄

[umbral meteor]

been a while since i played xD

[topaz tide]

trains...

flawless 4 to 4 balancer

:p

[bitter lark]

https://tenor.com/view/feliznavidad-wide-awake-nailed-it-gif-13116557

[hearty meteor]

I'm feeling sick

[topaz tide]

its ok its ok

i dont need more than 2 red belts of throughput for copper so the balancer is fine

ahh i wish i was on vulcanus right now

i neeed foundries

its ok ill just go kill some biters then itll all be better

and my electric engines might be done by then to make my silo

ooo fancy blue biters

[rigid bramble]

all it needs is too pieces of belt, and you call yourself an engineer xD

[topaz tide]

i make a rocke

uppp

[topaz tide]

made a little circuit to cycle through science packs to get around the 5 limit on filtering inserters lol

each science pack is assigned to a 10 frame interval where that will be the filter on the inserter, and the back facing ones have their own set for a future line on the top of the labs

yes i know ill be ripping it all down when i get biolabs anyway and wont even have this problem, but it was a fun

added lights :p

[topaz tide]

been doing freeform rails this run, very chill and nice

much less effort than making a whole grid snapped rail bp set and swapping through a blueprint book just to lay a line to a stone patch thatll run out in a little

[topaz tide]

tiny science platform

aahhghhh it not right

dangit

oh nvm easiest fix

the belts now corrected

im glad i didnt have to ship anything up

decisions decision

s

[topaz tide]

ahh its boring but i reaally want vulcanus tech

i want easy mode

ill do vulcanus gleba fulgora

[topaz tide]

i am so fast

low effort walls for a low effort save

[topaz tide]

i think... i spent my whole game without these plugged in

yay more oil!

[topaz tide]

all walled up, time to go

[topaz tide]

workin on a shapely barge

[topaz tide]

i wanted a reactor, but its an odd number of tiles, so i had to make two

i think this looks sweet

ahh theres a bottom and top limit to the spaceship

cant make it too long

no idea if this is enough ammo

[topaz tide]

looking pretty well

that will do

im hoping 15 turrets at the front will be enough to blast them asteroids

[dapper monolith]

looking good 🙂

[umbral meteor]

Need more DAKKA!!

[rigid bramble]

To me that seems like an awful lot

Though I guess it depends what you're doing with it

[umbral meteor]

Aquilo?

😝

[rigid bramble]

But to echo Zang, you might need more guns on the sides

[umbral meteor]

[rigid bramble]

Aquilo either needs rockets
Or enough yellow ammo to fire 2k shots a second

[umbral meteor]

Yeah, asteroids tend to sometimes come in sideways

[rigid bramble]

Also maybe double check your reactor math

[umbral meteor]

sideways asteroids has wrecked my ships more than once, even if a had enough damage output to handle them if they came straight on

[rigid bramble]

Depends how long it's going to be on station imo
If you go fast enough and don't hang around you don't have to worry

[umbral meteor]

Too fast is ALSO a problem sometimes xD

at least when going to Aquilo xD

[rigid bramble]

You seen the guy who went non stop to the system edge at 350kms?

[umbral meteor]

on my Platformer run i had to set up automation to cut 2/3 of my Thrusters when going there, or my base got wrecked

[umbral meteor]

Yes, but did you see that they had Nukes, as well as were running Creative Mod?

[rigid bramble]

I was meaning the railgun setup

[umbral meteor]

once you get them it's easy xD

i didn't at that time xD

then i started to rebuild my entire base, and haven't played after...

Save is from version .28, latest is 55-56?

[rigid bramble]

No idea

[umbral meteor]

.55, .58 on Experimental

[rigid bramble]

Railguns are needed for the promethium asteroids iirc

[umbral meteor]

Yes, but you need to get to Aquilo to get them iirc

[rigid bramble]

Oh, my mistake 1000kms
https://youtu.be/KG4-EQ83YH4?si=HtqrzEeb2wf2yHoW

[umbral meteor]

Okay, this dude did not cheat.
but some of the first videos of people doing this ran "Creative Mod"

[rigid bramble]

And yes I do know of the nuclear needle design

I think creative mode is fine for theory crafting ideas, unless they're doing things you can't do normally

[topaz tide]

its complete overkill, its for going around the core worlds, i just felt like making it fancy

[rigid bramble]

Still, I have questions if that nuclear is ratio'd

A steam buffer might be an idea though imo

[topaz tide]

yeah its ratiod fine, 2 reactors makes 160mw, which is consumed by 16 heat exchangers and 32 turbines

i did the math

[atomic aurora]

should only need 28 turbines (technically 27.5) since one turbine is 5.82MW to an exchanger's 10MW

[topaz tide]

i just take the numbers to be 5MW to make the math easier

[atomic aurora]

"the risk was calculated sir, but boy am I bad at math"

[rigid bramble]

You're not going to need that much power iirc

[topaz tide]

i know

[hasty flower]

Hear me out what if we just put layers and layers of legendary walls on the front and just tanked the damage lol

[topaz tide]

sorta how i limped my first ship to vulcanus lol

the walls dont last too long though

[hasty flower]

That's why they need to be legendary walls and however many you think is enough double it then raise it to the Nth degree lol
Tank all the way!

[topaz tide]

it is complete

[topaz tide]

finally, vulcanus tgime

the one thing i forgot, a landing pad lol

hello new neighbour :p

[umbral meteor]

Helloooo fwend! xD

[hasty flower]

Just import some glowing rocks and they go away easily lol

[topaz tide]

yes yes

this one can stay awhile

[bitter lark]

Make sure to go for the headshot. And bring a reload in case it didn't work

(and I don't mean a second kaboom. I mean a quicksave)

[topaz tide]

i have killed these before

i used kill tunnels, but since then ive found out you can just spam turrets to do it easier and lazier

should be fine

[rigid bramble]

For a moment there, I thought were saying laser turrets...

[topaz tide]

wow these worms are strong

misjudged one but managed to bring it away before it started on my base

i let one loose before on my base to see what would happen and they take no prisoners

[topaz tide]

time for big train

[topaz tide]

ah.. maybe smaller trains

how am i gonna fit this next to a tungsten patch surroounded by lava

[rigid bramble]

You need a better... foundation

[topaz tide]

im a little ways away from that

[rigid bramble]

And whatcha planning to do, legendary speed module some big miners? xD

[topaz tide]

i just wanna build big

[rigid bramble]

You also need resources from all 4 planets iirc

[topaz tide]

it sparks joy

[rigid bramble]

You just want to put an entire tungsten deposit in a train

[umbral meteor]

One Single Train? xD

[topaz tide]

of course not, it would be lonely

many big single trains

i think im getting a bit ahead of myself though

[rigid bramble]

Gonna put the whole planet into trains

[topaz tide]

convenient radar gizmo

all of that power for only 1000 sulfuric acid per second

thats like a GW

its so unreasonable i love it

vulcanus is the best

[topaz tide]

pretty okay tungsten grouping here

definitely gonna speed module all these

finally, belts of doom

i wonder why they made the rocket stack size smaller

do they hate me

green belts only ship 50 at a time ;-;

ohhhh

wait no

no ohhh

is there an ohh?

i was thinking i could just ship the materials and make them on other planets

but they say they're only made on vulcanus

ok yeah they are only vulcanus

[rigid bramble]

It's not like it's hard to make rockets on vulcanus

[umbral meteor]

and yes, some things can only be made on specific planets,
Forge based stuff on Volcanis, Bio stuff on Gleba, Electric stuff on Fulgora and ||Fusion|| stuff on Aquilo

[topaz tide]

yes yes

just a matter of make more

[topaz tide]

oh im a fool

why am i still using mk 2 assemblers

[topaz tide]

huge

so much im not bothering balancing it

and i dont have a 12 to 12 balancer on me

[umbral meteor]

i do have a 16to16 xD

[topaz tide]

wowie

[umbral meteor]

will only work with blue and green belts, undergrounds are too short for the other ones

but this one is essentially an N to N balancer

so 1 to 16, or 8 to 12, and so on

[topaz tide]

yeah

its so big you just put as many ins and outs as you like

[umbral meteor]

it's the way it balances as well.
if you put in 16 items at one input, you should get one on each output

may not be perfect though xD

[topaz tide]

someday ill learn how to make balancers myself

[bitter lark]

Why reinvent the wheel?

[icy trench]

because i could make it rounder

[umbral meteor]

when it comes to the new production builds based on new recipes and buildings from SA, i have done all myself.
but balancers, as well as "standard" smelting setups, i just use the tried and true old design someone else came up with xD

same with Nuclear setups, as well as normal oil setups (including standard refinery Adevaned oil)

[topaz tide]

well yeah i mean i know theyre easily available

i just want to learn about it because its cool

[umbral meteor]

why i made my own Furnace setups and such, as well as the designs on Fulgora and Aquilo.

Gleba i just hand crafted all i needed to open up Aquilo xD

[hearty meteor]

Technically making balancers N to M is simple, but not necessarily easy
And a lot less easy if you want them to be compact

[bitter lark]

Making UT balancers even moreso.

(Less easy, that is)

[topaz tide]

and theres side balancing

i did see a video about an interesting style of balancers they call crossbar switches

theyre pretty simple

apparently its based off of a similar thing used in networking

[hearty meteor]

I remember before we had priority input and output

[bitter lark]

That... is not balanced.

[topaz tide]

here's another he made

[bitter lark]

Also, not balanced.

First one prioritizes the top belt, this one prioritizes the bottom belt.

[topaz tide]

i think its more like a different way of doing input and output balancing

the belts wont be balanced but the ins and outs will be distributed

[bitter lark]

Oh, for sure.

The top one is a solid overflow buffer, and the bottom one a "distributer"

But they don't balance

[hearty meteor]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-perfectlybalanced-gif-18301221

[rigid bramble]

Remember though if you filter with a decon planner, it won't push anything down that side

[topaz tide]

yea you wouldnt wanna do that here

but it might be something to consider

[rigid bramble]

As opposed to just prioritised outputs

[topaz tide]

im not sure

it seems like using these "switches", the belt or belts is like a rolling capacity being filled up and drawn off of using these lines of switches

if you use deconstruction planners you block off a whole lane cutting off all that capacity

[rigid bramble]

Cutting off the lane that isn't going anywhere

[topaz tide]

it might go somewhere if its output gets full

[rigid bramble]

The ones where it joins a line without any balancing

[bitter lark]

The top horizontal splitters and all vertical splitters can be filtered with a decon planner (or any item that won't ever be on that belt) to keep those "dead ends" empty and therefore don't "waste" production.

(and in fact, the leftmost vertical splitters are surplus to demand if you don't plan on scaling this ever)

[topaz tide]

i think the idea is that they're not dead ends, they would continue on

if this whole thing is just to turn it to the right, no splitters needed

the ones splitting off sure

but i personally am not bothering with that

[hallow steppe]

I use a setup similar to the second one, but for filtering the output of a scrap recycler array on Fulgora.

[hallow steppe]

I see that I could have saved some space by using the undergrounds on the N/S belts rather than the E/W ones, but it's not worth changing now that it's built.

[topaz tide]

ahh fulgoran scrap arrays have gotta be one of my favourite looking builds from the dlc

[topaz tide]

wish i could figure out how to get rid of that combinator on the right that only serves to convert signals to L for train length

the two on the left are just for clamping the train limit to a max value

the top one is if L is less than or equal to the train limit (locomotive signal) then output L, the bottom is if the train limit is smaller than L output the train limit

if i could get the bottom one to output as L i could save some space

[topaz tide]

woah they can do that???

thank you selector combinator this is perfect

wonder what happens to fluid signals

huh... nothing

well thats a problem that means its not usable for fluids

wow, now my system is even smarter

i dont even need to manually assign a stack size anymore

i can just have that stack size selector come off of the cargo signals from the station's buffer chests

and with some deciders, if its a fluid (which outputs nothing on the selector) i can just set the "stack size" to 50000, the storage of 1 fluid wagon

perfection

[topaz tide]

i love how dusty vulcanus looks when there's a light on

super cool effect

[topaz tide]

aaand done

so the previous system took a max train limit, a value for how much a train can carry which would need to be manually calculated, and the items stored in the station's buffer chests. then, does some calculations and logic to figure out how many trains worth of cargo the station has and set the train limit of that station, clamped to a max value

the new system takes a max train limit, the amount of cargo wagons a train docked at that station will have, and the cargo in the station's buffer chests. it auto detects the stack size of that item and calculates how many items would be in one cargo wagon, and finds how many trains of cargo there is by dividing wagons worth of cargo by the wagons on the train. then, it clamps the trains of cargo available to a max value and sets that as the station's train limit. it also supports fluids, by setting wagon size to a fixed value of 50k

and theres some nice lights there to display the current train limit set to the station

it is a fair bit bigger in size as a trade off, but i dont mind

i think its laid out nicer, one side handles only the "provider" logic of calculating how many trains there are, and the other handles only the "limit" logic of clamping the train limit to a max value

[topaz tide]

mmm big train

[umbral meteor]

nabbs all the smart designs

😁

[topaz tide]

i can give you a blueprint string if you'd like

[umbral meteor]

i were so happy when they changed the combinators, enabling me to do an S-R latch using one combinator instead of 4

[topaz tide]

im not that advanced yet i only do high level stuff

high level in the programming sense not as in im super smart :p

[topaz tide]

woah worm croissant

what a funky bit of territory

[umbral meteor]

time to take it down with your pickaxe xD

[dapper monolith]

I would almost pay to see that done 😂

[umbral meteor]

😁

could probably be done, with 100's of people with "god mode" so they would not die xD

[topaz tide]

i think i like this one

its got a territory that looks like a little tap

and it does funny circles

i have no need for land, it can have its swirlies

[rigid bramble]

Ah, but what damage does the pickaxe do

[umbral meteor]

😝

[bitter lark]

Pick can't hurt demos

[rigid bramble]

Just checking it wasn't impact xD

Yeah 16dps ain't gonna cut it

[umbral meteor]

100's of people with Pistols it is then xD

[bitter lark]

I don't think pistol can either.

[rigid bramble]

100 pistols with green ammo, and 100 levels of research

[bitter lark]

Oh wait nvm, it can injure it;
Physical: 50% (head), 5/50% (body)

(Small one)

Just need enough to counter the 2400/s regen.

[rigid bramble]

Impact is what it's immune to

[umbral meteor]

why the 100's of people xD

[topaz tide]

my spaceship vorasha has a speed issue :/ it goes too fast when it starts off and runs into an asteroid every now and then, but is fine when it's cruising normally

just occasionally getting a bleep is quite distracting

[rigid bramble]

Probably cus it fills the engines when it's orbiting a planet

[topaz tide]

yesh

id need to do some fancy combinator pump stuff to regulate the flow i guess

[rigid bramble]

Or have the pumps only active when it's travelling

[topaz tide]

im not sure what that would do

the engines would still get full until the ship uses up its fuel buffer

[rigid bramble]

I mean have the pumps to the engine stop when it's orbiting a planet

[topaz tide]

good enough tileable red chips

oh dangit why am i still using assembler mk2

oh wow i have like 200 speed module 3s

thats great

fixed

[topaz tide]

hm wonder why im still on vulcanus

i think im done here

time to upgrade nauvis

[topaz tide]

yep, going back to vulcanus lol

[dapper monolith]

How goes the factory? 😄

[topaz tide]

well when i went back to upgrade nauvis i was sort of thinking "i kinda want advanced asteroid processing" and then i kept finding stuff to do on vulcanus and now i gotta clear some worms...

the usual factorio cycle

i think i need more trains on vulcanus

that would solve my problems

belt only bases can feel "claustrophobic"

[dapper monolith]

I wish i had train on vulcanus 😄

i just seem to keep neglecting that base

[topaz tide]

ohh no power sploded

this is why i needed to go back to vulcanus

seems like i need some kind of priority for giving sulfuric acid to the power plant

[dapper monolith]

😄

only my nauvis and fulgora are in order

[topaz tide]

ooo maybe i can use a power switch!

to make sure i dont completely blackout, i could have the power related stuff disconnect from the network if the steam buffers are running dry

well looks like that wont be necessary

sulfuric acid buffering works well enough

[rigid bramble]

Orrr... solar

[topaz tide]

well true but 1GW is a lot of solar

when i could just go get more acid

[rigid bramble]

You get like 200% solar power iirc

[topaz tide]

yeah

we're still talking gigantic fields of panels

[rigid bramble]

It'll give you a baseline amount of power, so you don't get a blackout

[topaz tide]

of which i havent planned space for

[dapper monolith]

the fab use so much power it would be a paint to do solar i think

[rigid bramble]

Or solar powers your acid power gen

And/or steam buffers

[topaz tide]

tearing it all down and replacing it with trains

itll be so much nicer

and therell be trains rolling around everywhere

so wonderful

[dapper monolith]

i need to get foundation before i start that prosses 😄

[topaz tide]

i think this land mass is big enough for it, then i can canneloni my way over to others as required

ive got some cool ideas for how i want my trains to act; ill have a central silo area where trains drop off stuff for exporting as well as rocket ingredients

and i can make buffer stops for raw resource trains to go to instead of all going to different places

[dapper monolith]

fair but i want my world in need blocks 😂

This is why my games take so long and why i can't have nice things

[topaz tide]

ahh i see

i like to do a bit of a compromise

i dont mind about how big my blocks are, but my little factories for different things are kept fairly separate and trains handle logistics between them

[dapper monolith]

it might have to do with the over scaling addiction i have 😂

[topaz tide]

very nice looking bots

looks like in the time i got that done i dont have a bot problem anymore

they all finished their jobs

look at them go

[dapper monolith]

looking solid

[topaz tide]

...

[rigid bramble]

Hugsssss

Cmon have you not got the hover armour yet xD

[topaz tide]

im trapped on vulcanus... thjeres so much to do

ill go and have fun with other new stuff... eventuially..

ill be done soon... i swear... for real tis time./.

[rigid bramble]

You can work on Vulcanus whilst flying to fulgora

[topaz tide]

nay

too muich to do

i must have my trains

[rigid bramble]

Looks like you've got plenty of train on top of you xD

[topaz tide]

uhhh i think this is a 3:2 balancer

wow i love this little spiderweb

[bitter lark]

Where even is your output?

[topaz tide]

this

oh the outputs are 2 balancers next to the middle

heres a closer view

[bitter lark]

Ah. I see.

Then yes, that's a 6:2 balancer of sorts.

[topaz tide]

oh ya

well not really

those are only to merge half belts, it only has 3 belts of throughput if you tried to use it as a 6:2

oh actually that wouldnt matter anyway

yeah i could use that as a 6:2 huh

cool

[bitter lark]

"but throughput" shoves 6 belts of stuff down 2 belts

[topaz tide]

lol

[dapper monolith]

i too would like to know

[bitter lark]

Read on, friend. 😉

[topaz tide]

in the close up, see the underground with the yellow highlight, and its friend on the other side. those are the outputs of this lovely mess

[dapper monolith]

😕 i still fail to get the balance of this 😂

[topaz tide]

the inserters are merged into 2 full belts on the sides and half belts in the middle. the middle halves merge with one side of it, then the last balancer splits between both outputs

so every belt has access to every other belt, and its uhh proobably balanced

havent tested it or really know what im doing

but it looks neat and it feels about right

[dapper monolith]

😂 i just use the design i have used for years now 😂

[topaz tide]

this is the infinitely simpler way of merging 3:2 belts

whatever the case, my wagons somehow unload into 8 belts, and thats all im worried about

i think this looks pretty sweet

[dapper monolith]

this is this is how i have done it since the beginning of time 😂

[topaz tide]

woah

thats a neat way of doing it, with side balancing too

[dapper monolith]

and even unloading 😛 with once bit of circits 😛

I.E all chest should empty about the same time 😄

[topaz tide]

i havent balanced all my stuff but each triplet of wagons should have equal draw so effectively they should run out at the same time

[dapper monolith]

you want a hint on how to do it?

[topaz tide]

sure

[dapper monolith]

full how to or just a hunt?

[topaz tide]

for like, balancing?

for your specific way:?

[dapper monolith]

balanced unloading of chests and yes

[topaz tide]

sure whats your solution to it

[dapper monolith]

-<chestCount>
and everything > 0 on the inserter

[topaz tide]

you divide by -48?

[dapper monolith]

48 chests, so it gives me A - average to use to enable/disable the inserters

[topaz tide]

hmm

[dapper monolith]

I'm not great at explaning it in a non code kinda way 😂

[topaz tide]

try explaining it in a code kinda way

[hallow steppe]

I think I get it. Total in all chests/-48 gives the average. Compare that to the contents of each individual chest. If that is greater than or equal to the average, allow the inserter to withdraw.

[dapper monolith]

nailed it

[topaz tide]

ohh so only export from a chest when its contents are above an average value

that makes a lot more sense thank you

[dapper monolith]

yeah, I'm not great at describing how my brain does stuff, it's all wibbaly wobbly stuff in there.

I also do stop priority based on number of train loads a stop can fill or receive

[topaz tide]

thats smart

i could probably add that to my system but for now it just calculates the train limit

im working on that logic now actuaolly

turns out the only difference between requesting and providing is a single arithmetic combinator

[dapper monolith]

I could use the same logic for train limits 😂

I SHOULD do that... why did you put that worm in my brain. 😂

[topaz tide]

:p

[dapper monolith]

this was my last trip in to madness MAXIMUM LABS with trains...

[topaz tide]

wow that is insanity

i love it

[dapper monolith]

8 1/2 belts of every bottle 😂 so 120/s of each input should be fun once i have legendary set up

[topaz tide]

that is a looot

[dapper monolith]

maybe?

[topaz tide]

8 and a half belts of input for each bottle seems like a bit more than 120

your trains will be busy :D

[dapper monolith]

its 8 half belts of each, I should have wrote it like 8/2 😂

so its more like an equivalent of 8 full belts 😂 that i can provide

The plan in to have only power and labs on my island on navus 🙂 every thing else should be shipped in form space

[topaz tide]

ahh ok

[dapper monolith]

Still a lot to provide and use... the factory's must grow and devour my time.

[topaz tide]

im not sure what to do with my nauvis, ive seen many people opt for the same minimalist nauvis but it seems a waste of its natural resources

but at the same time its true that the other planets are pretty great and in vulcunus's case pretty muich just an upgrade

[dapper monolith]

yeah, its kinda why I went with an island as it make it a bit more limiting, and let me look more at the other planets. Funglora is also insane and is where i plan to have most of my prod even if it costs more ups over vulk at the scale I'm going for.

plus I enjoy the belt sorting and what not.

[topaz tide]

ill have to keep that in mind for the future, yeah an island start sounds like a good idea for space age

did you boost richness or any of that stuff on nauvis?

[topaz tide]

wow this black lamp looks neat

i think i can tell by the fact i just added a combinator for the colour of the lights, that i'm finished with my smart train provider and requester :p

requester is blue and provider is orange, and you can set the max train limit and how many wagons the trains serving that station will have. then all you do is connect green to your station's buffer chests and red to your station itself

[dapper monolith]

that's one way of doing it 🙂 i was just gonna use the same value as my priority system I.E has enough for 3 train loads set limit to 3 🙂 keeping it simple this time

[topaz tide]

yea the idea of mine was that if a station wouldnt have enough space in laybys or wherever, i can cap how many are coming to prevent potential deadlocks due to backups

[dapper monolith]

Yeah, that might be an issue is some cases will probably use it for mining/supply stops with buffers.

[topaz tide]

you know somehow it never occured to me that oil cracking can be done in biochambers

[dapper monolith]

who needs all that oil anyway 😂

[topaz tide]

would that i had biochambers

[rigid bramble]

Biochambers need feeding though

And typically have alternate recipes for stuff that needs oils

[dapper monolith]

I'm going for each planet to have a main export just for the fun of why not

[topaz tide]

hmm is there a way to fit multiple values into a single signal, then get those discrete values back at the other end

[dapper monolith]

not sure what you mean.

[bitter lark]

multiplexing.

Enjoy learning real computer science!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplexing

[topaz tide]

aahh

this is not very helpful in figuring out how to convert that to factorio

i now know what multiplexing is but not how it works

actually i could figure out time division multiplexing i think

just send both the value and a time value

[dapper monolith]

with only two channels green/red wires it might not be able to get a lot of data density.

[bitter lark]

I know people have done it before, I also don't know how, but now you can google "multiplexing factorio" and learn! 😄

[dapper monolith]

why did you open that can of fun 😂

[topaz tide]

well i think i figured out time multiplexing already7 which is surprisingly simple

[umbral meteor]

there are mods... xD
i had one that added blue and purple wires as well

[topaz tide]

nahh i dont want more channels i wanna use my channels more efficiently

[dapper monolith]

no mods in this playthough 😄

the logic should not be too hard 😄 just a bit tricky

[umbral meteor]

god-module-with-quality <-

you want OP, here you go

[dapper monolith]

I dont want OP i want UPS

[umbral meteor]

less machines though xD
instead of 100 machines, maybe you only need 10

[dapper monolith]

seem you missed my no mods in this playthough comment 😄

[umbral meteor]

No, i did not, i'm just having fun xD

[bitter lark]

Did you see that 4M megabase tour video that appeared out of nowhere on a channel that didn't have anything before? St. Algorithmus praised that video hard among my fellow factorians.

[umbral meteor]

"Lasers can shoot larger asteroids"

[dapper monolith]

If only we could mod ppl to have fun detectors 😂

[umbral meteor]

i also have grenade launchers

[topaz tide]

hmmm problem

now i would need to have a different time counter for each time muxed signal

maybe

[umbral meteor]

Frequency Modulation?

[dapper monolith]

Nilaus
done a 1mil/min wich was quite fun to see

[bitter lark]

Not Nilaus.

It was a nobody channel until that video popped off.

[dapper monolith]

I know, that's why i said the value he done.

[bitter lark]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gikrR2Xuvvs

[topaz tide]

nilaus did do 1mil a minute

[umbral meteor]

i REALLY should get back to my "Platformer" Playthrough

[topaz tide]

4mil is impressive

[bitter lark]

Not saying he didn't, saying that's not who I meant. Should've probably used more words.

[umbral meteor]

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/platformer

[topaz tide]

ah right mb

i think ive seen someone playing spaceblock it looked pretty sweet

[umbral meteor]

Spaceblock is a different and older mod, from before Space Age

[dapper monolith]

I was just saying his 1mil/min was fun to see but he has practice in presentation 😄 not the the other person does not have a good base just not as well presented

[umbral meteor]

this one is a "There are no planets, all you have is one ship/floating base"

[bitter lark]

Yeah, it's very much a "I'm going to show this thing to my friends" vibe, instead of a well edited story.

Which honestly, I'm okay with.

[dapper monolith]

I kinda cant wait till SE has 2.0 compatibility sorted i really wanna host a server for it!

[dapper monolith]

and that's part of its charm 🙂

[umbral meteor]

you can create the save/map, and i can host it here.
for a 24/7 run time

[dapper monolith]

I have a good enough server for it 😛

[umbral meteor]

i know xD

😁

that said, i do think Earendel has their hands full with SA and Factorio 2.x

[dapper monolith]

I just cant deal with the fans 24/7 not built the server room up yet

[umbral meteor]

my server is not in the same room as me, also it's just an older computer and not actual server hardware

[dapper monolith]

😂 no one want rack servers in there office... probably

[umbral meteor]

"I just love to listen to the whine from server fans"

someone probably

[dapper monolith]

it's not a whine it more like a WHHHHHHREEE...

just put you desk in a data center it would be fun said no one...

[umbral meteor]

in one of my computers when i were 18-20 i had 4. 80x80x30mm Delta fans xD

it's a wonder the computer didn't just take off

[dapper monolith]

one sec

just looked at mine they pull 48w each @14000 rpm 😂 might be a bit much for my use case, just a bit

[topaz tide]

it really is amazing how factorio is the only game where i'd be considering simething like multiplexing signals

minecraft is maybe the only other one, if i was really into redstone

what a unique pair of games

i wonder if any zachtronics game makes you use multiplexing

[dapper monolith]

i think they might but need to ask some whos played them

[topaz tide]

i havent got far enough to know :p

i bought TIS 100 cause its cheap rn, but im not sure that woudl be possible

very space restricted

[umbral meteor]

have you seen the video of someone making a computer inside Terraria?

[topaz tide]

ahhh right

the other game with a circuit system lol

it even has built in timers its probably even more suited for it

[umbral meteor]

iirc they made a game for a computer inside a game xD

[dapper monolith]

I'm deep in bitburner atm 😂 just been getting my startUp script going fully

there are quite a few proggraming games and most of them are good

[topaz tide]

i sorta struggled with direction in bitburner. it wasnt until aavak mentioned all the stuff that he does like taking all the security and money values and stuff that i thought of it that way