Factorio

[solid pollen]

fuck

[umbral meteor]

in like an hour or so iirc

rl hour

[solid pollen]

is that its max time or the average time after going through the process

[umbral meteor]

that is the max for Normal quality

[quasi ocean]

What? Gleba science has a spoil time of 1 hour

Are you playing on 10% spoil rate?

[umbral meteor]

i may actually be, probably why i said 1h first as that's what i read first time i tested Space Age xD

🏴‍☠️

before i actually got the dlc xD

[rigid bramble]

didn't they say green belts with max stacks was like 720 items a second

[quasi ocean]

240

[rigid bramble]

also I've done a science loop once, and never again xD

[quasi ocean]

Yellow belt is 15 per second (combined throughput of both lanes), red 30, blue 45, green 60, then stacking adds three more layers, multiplying each by four, for a max of 240 per second on a green stacked belt

[rigid bramble]

I have played satisfactory since they announced stacking xD

[quasi ocean]

Every spoilable item's spoil time (they are boosted by quality, up to 250%)
copper/iron bacteria: 1m
mash: 3m
jelly: 4m
nutrients 5m
penta egg: 15m
biter egg: 30m
captive spawner item: 30m
yumako: 1h
jellynut: 1h
agri science: 1h
bioflux: 2h
fish: 2h5m50s

[solid pollen]

it kinda seems like gleba is the only fleshed out planet

[rigid bramble]

Vulcanus is, but imo its a bit boring

also Arumba's awesome smol ship xD

[vivid jackal]

Lol "fleshed" out the organic planet?

[solid pollen]

hehe glad someone got that 😄

its terrible and I own it

[vivid jackal]

Anyone who doesn't find that funny has no sense of humor.

[solid pollen]

404 humour not found

hey what do I do with the recycling shit I dont want on Fulgora? do i just death spiral recycle it?

[rigid bramble]

throw it into space

[vivid jackal]

Toss it in the lava

[solid pollen]

aint no lava on Fulgora

[rigid bramble]

then ship it to Vulcanus and throw it in the lava

[vivid jackal]

Future made an impressive set up on the community server if you want to look.

[rigid bramble]

also Arumba versus chat on whether you use accumulators on space platforms

[quasi ocean]

I think a platform should always have at least some accumulators, ideally you put them in free 2x2 spots that would otherwise not do anything

every space platform has power usage peaks and dips

it peaks when they move, it dips when they stop

[hearty meteor]

Just use nuclear power
;P

[quasi ocean]

You can save on space, therefore weight, therefore speed by having less solar panels if you can use accumulators to handle spikes in power use

[quasi ocean]

Accumulators are a must on fission powered platforms

[vivid jackal]

Set up the water being supplied based on accumulator total reserves to not waste heat when not needed.

[hearty meteor]

Tanks with steam. I guess you could call that an accumulator, but it's not an accumulator from the game files. The nuclear reactor will run and waste heat if you don't turn it into steam anyway. Which is why you might also want to limit when it gets a new fuel cell

[rigid bramble]

steam tanks are accumulators, right?

[umbral meteor]

Steampunk Batteries! 😄

[pliant crystal]

A tank is a 25k steam battery, yes, that takes 3x3 footprint; quality doesn't increase its storage potential. I've not done the math on how much energy 25k steam converts into, though. But accumulators are 2x2, and their storage goes up dramatically with quality.

[quasi ocean]

Did a quick check and it's more than I thought actually

a storage tank of steam is equivalent to 485 accumulators, I had no idea it was that huge

[pliant crystal]

A steam turbine's power output does scale with quality.

So, with the whole accumulator vs tank quality thing, I'd say both scale, just in different places. The amount of energy being stored scales with accumulators, where as the output of the stored energy scales with steam.

[quasi ocean]

So a steam tank is equivalent to 80(.83333) legendary accumulators while only taking up the space of 2.25 of them, damn

[pliant crystal]

The turbines effectively scales the energy density of the steam.

[umbral meteor]

Epic Turbines -> 11.1 MW

[quasi ocean]

so does the consumption in equal measure though

The energy density doesn't change

[pliant crystal]

Oh, didn't spot that, my bad, you're quite right, the consumption scales too.

[rigid bramble]

chaos roll; use steam and chemical accumulators xD

[pliant crystal]

40%

[quasi ocean]

so steam tanks have ~36x the energy density of legendary accumulators

[pliant crystal]

Yup

[rigid bramble]

I only have two tanks with my two reactors in space, and 10 turbines

[pliant crystal]

So deffo should be going with a single steam tank over accumulators, if you have enough room.

[quasi ocean]

But wait, there's more

[vivid jackal]

I noticed at least on benthams platform that the heat in the reactor and exchanger didn't go down when there's no water in the exchangee.

[quasi ocean]

Cause in 2.0, 1 water becomes 10 steam

[rigid bramble]

iirc heat only goes down if its consumed

[hearty meteor]

Yeah, the heat doesn't go down, but it still wastes fuel that burns continuously to make more heat up to the max

[quasi ocean]

so if you store the water instead, that's 10 times the power storage, you just gotta, you know, turn it to steam

[rigid bramble]

also for the record, I've no idea if my set up is any good >.<

[quasi ocean]

so don't

[hearty meteor]

#1167527626743758858 message

;P

[solid pollen]

damn so you can just run fulgora entirely as a bot mall and accumulators

is what ive learnt doing it

[rigid bramble]

Arumba cooled down
also what am I doing on my bus

[umbral meteor]

yup, more or less what i have there xD

[solid pollen]

ugh im gonna have to circuit this shit to deal with overflow from scrap stuff aint I? i can just see something filling it up slowly and clogging the whole thing

[umbral meteor]

xD

[solid pollen]

and plz give me more holmium ore damn

[umbral meteor]

Circuit the shit you say?

[solid pollen]

6 recyclers dont even give enough for 1 solution maker

fuck off

that literally made me shudder looking at that

thats a little more advanced than my skill level KEKW

stress on the "little"

[umbral meteor]

this is not advanced at ALL

[rigid bramble]

just use something with filters

[vivid jackal]

So just set up a system the grabs the scrapped items first to use in grinding recipes, then recycle the excess to base materials to turn into missing items for the same quality grinding.

[umbral meteor]

just a decider set to "if material is over x then output material -> 1"
which then goes into an arithmetic -> input times 200
and then to requester chest for "set request"

and that's dumped into recyclers

[vivid jackal]

I'm serious though, future planet set up an entire system that uses only belts, undergrounds and splitters. No circuits.

[rigid bramble]

I found splitters jammed up to easily

[vivid jackal]

Then check out the community servers fulgora. Or ask Bentham to screen shot it with a spoiler.

[rigid bramble]

I have a system that makes science, so I'm happy

what I'm not happy about is the amount of LDS in my loop

[umbral meteor]

@solid pollenEssentially the core build

[vivid jackal]

Then store the lds that's a pain to make on any planet.

[umbral meteor]

they get recycled if they go above 100k xD

this has been going for about a day.....

and all i have is 7 Epic Tesla Turrets

[rigid bramble]

I have 9.6 k LDS stored

[umbral meteor]

now THIS is some advanced circuit logic, and i have NO idea how it's made,
i just borrowed a BP from "Factorio Prints" for a Quality Grinder xD

[rigid bramble]

and no scrap... nope I need to do this Nauvis thing first dammit

though I remember why I was on the bus, to get an SMG

[umbral meteor]

all i did were learn how to switch out assemblers with different entities for crafting

and limit it to Epic as i don't have Legendary unlocked xD

[rigid bramble]

actually I think Arumba is quite drunk currently xD

[rigid bramble]

now to get the space ship to go collect the [REDACTED] when I run low

which comes back to the sending requests into orbit xD

[hearty meteor]

Arumba explaining things to Aavak? Hope he's having fun

[rigid bramble]

Ay Ay Vak

[vivid jackal]

Is it a new Aavakening?

[rigid bramble]

Arumba can't say Aavak

[hearty meteor]

Steejo and Arumba are just chaotic

[rigid bramble]

Steejo just trying to build the factory, Arumba is just being drunk

[hearty meteor]

And chat is riling up Arumba

[rigid bramble]

Arumba's twitch chat doesn't like me for some reason

[hearty meteor]

Arumba claims a sandwich needs meat in the middle

[vivid jackal]

No no, they proved that meat on the outside with bread in the middle is better.

Is aavak playing with another streamer,

[hearty meteor]

No, I think he was just watching

Visiting their stream

[rigid bramble]

Aavak joined Arumba's chat, hence them going Ay Ay Vak

[vivid jackal]

Lol

[rigid bramble]

instead of Long A vak

[hearty meteor]

Eh-vak

[vivid jackal]

Why does everyone stream while I'm working?

[hearty meteor]

Because it's work for them too, I guess

[pliant crystal]

Why do you think that? :/

[rigid bramble]

I mean the app itself, not the users

it wants me to verify something or other

sorry, I didn't say what I meant

[vivid jackal]

Only verified accounts may participate in chat. Right?

[pliant crystal]

Ahh, that makes more sense.

[rigid bramble]

Arumba's channel has been the only one to hit me with that

but I can watch Steejo on youtube, and chat there

[vivid jackal]

How would you even verify your account?

[hearty meteor]

Pay papa Bezoz?

[rigid bramble]

its in the options somewhere, along with hiding channels

anyway, I am having an upgrade

[vivid jackal]

Like the million dollar man?

[rigid bramble]

I have the technology, I can rebuild my bus

[vivid jackal]

Trying to decide if nuclear fuel is worth using for heating towers.

[quasi ocean]

I was actually thinking of setting up nuclear fuel production ||to help get started on Aquilo||

[vivid jackal]

That's what I was thinking, but didn't know if it was worth it.

[quasi ocean]

My new ship, "The Grapevine"

Designed to be a dedicated hauler for bioflux to Nauvis

So we can finally get into biter egg farming

Yes the whole thing runs off of 4 solar panels. Just. the accumulators are a big help, as is the fact this ship never needs to go as far out as Fulgora

If efficiency modules have no supporters then I am dead

Actually hold on I just had an idea for a huge redesign

[vivid jackal]

Needs MOAR POWAH

[quasi ocean]

Okay, introducing the Grapevine mark 2

Same functionality, even more dense

This fuel production may be my finest creation yet

[vivid jackal]

Needs two more thrusters.

[quasi ocean]

That'd mean more width which means more drag

Also this many thrusters uses up slighty more fuel per second than the chem plants make

[pliant crystal]

Love how tightly designed that is, you've squeezed everything out of the space you used!

[rigid bramble]

Meanwhile mine just kept getting longer
Also that silly issue making me put my engines all weird >.<

[woeful geyser]

That's gorgeous

[atomic aurora]

Damn, I just noticed that's all epic quality, as well

[rigid bramble]

But @quasi ocean why does the width of the ship dictate top speed?
Give us your insider knowledge xD

[umbral meteor]

Dark matter drag 😉

[rigid bramble]

but for real though
and why isn't it communicated to the player thats how it works

Steejo and Arumba had a few things to say about that being the case too

[pliant crystal]

Fish breeding is online.

[rigid bramble]

fish 😮

is it sustainable though

though I might opine there is a better source of nutrients on Nauvis

[pliant crystal]

It needs deliveries of bioflux, but even when they run out, it can sustain itself for a time on the fish built up.

it massively overproduces fish, and the overproduction is stockpiled. It has a long spoil timer.

In the event that fish production stops, fish to nutrients can continue to pull from the stockpile for a while. It'll eventually run out, but would require a consistent delay in bioflux deliveries over a few hours, which... if that's happening, there are other bigger issues to worry about XD

[rigid bramble]

I want to see if you (as in the royal you) can make it self sufficient and/or make it nutrient positive

idk, fish and tree making on Nauvis doesn't seem to be entirely useful for anything

[pliant crystal]

You need 100 nutrients per fish produced (assuming you're taking 2 back from the 3, to keep supplies running) and a single fish makes 20 nutrients. So no.

[rigid bramble]

but can you prod the fish

[pliant crystal]

Nope

Only speed and efficiency.

No infini-fish, I'm afraid.

[rigid bramble]

rip, I mean good, no fish abuse xD

[pliant crystal]

Maybe with the inclusion of biter eggs, the two could sustain one another.

Nope, biter eggs require bioflux to produce, so there's absolutely no way.

You NEED imports from Gleba.

[rigid bramble]

1 bioflux is 30 eggs though

or so I just counted xD

[pliant crystal]

1, or 1 million, you still can't make bioflux on Nauvis.

So my assertion that you need imports from Gleba still stands.

There's no version of this where you kickstart the system with a one time import, then assuming you never let it stop, it just keeps running forever without any further input. You cannot make a biter-fish perpetual motion engine, alas.

You can make a very efficient biter-fish engine, but not a perpetual one.

[rigid bramble]

the fish will just have to go free, what a shame

[pliant crystal]

Hmm... wiat.

wait*

Lemme see how much of a difference max level efficieny makes on nutrient needs.

[rigid bramble]

its still going to take 100 nutrients to craft though, surely?

[pliant crystal]

Without efficienty, the fish recipe is 3.36 fish + 168 nutrients makes 7.58 fish (per second)

With 4 t3 epic efficiency modules, it's 1.26 fish + 63.3 nutrients makes 2.85 fish

Without modules, fish to nutrients is 5.05 fish -> 151 nutrients

With T3 epics it's 1.9 fish -> 57 nutrients

[rigid bramble]

oh man, I need to fix so many things in so many different places >.<

57 nutrients should be low enough?

[pliant crystal]

If the fish breeder is pulling fish back in to keep the process running, then 1 fish breeder + 1 fish to nutrients producer still needs 1.57 fish and 6.3 nutrients just to keep running.

That is, extra from what they produce.

The fish breeder produces 0.33 fish per second, for 63.3 nutrients; and the fish to nutrients produces 57 nutrients for 1.9 fish per second.

But that's using epic modules.

I doubt it'd go positive with legendary, but I can't say for sure.

Actually, that being said, the jump from epic to legendary is massive; from rare to epic is only 15% more powerful (80 to 95%) but from epic to legendary is a whopping 30% bump (95 to 125%)

Still, diminishing returns on multiple modules, but MAAAAAYBE it would end up positive, or very close to it.

[rigid bramble]

so close, but no perpetual fish-biter engine

[pliant crystal]

If you're up to legendary modules, give it a test.

[rigid bramble]

I still need to research epic

though I did get a massive lab upgrade, so maybe it is time

but first I need to strip and go on a ski holiday

[hearty meteor]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/9WNz86tDzro

[solid pollen]

seems like they overcomplicated it and made the trains take longer in that location

[rigid bramble]

welp time to go defrost

[quasi ocean]

Yeah I already did the science, you can't ever get nutrient positive with fish

[quasi ocean]

All I have to go off of is this, which was once posted in the playtester discord. I can't be sure it's correct but it looks right.
-- drag_coefficient = width * 0.5
-- drag = (1500 * speed + 1500) * speed * drag_coefficient + 10000
-- final_thrust = thrust / (1 + weight / 10000000)
-- acceleration = (final_thrust - drag) / weight / 60
space_platform_acceleration_expression = "(thrust / (1 + weight / 10000000) - ((1500 * speed + 1500) * speed * (width * 0.5) + 10000)) / weight / 60",
space_platform_relative_speed_factor = 0.035,
space_platform_starfield_movement_vector = { 0, -0.02 },

[solid pollen]

its almost like they made sure we couldnt cheese it. stupid methodical and meticulous developers!

damn them for being so good

[quasi ocean]

So width increases the drag coefficient, which increases drag, which then subtracts from acceleration

Weight appears to be a far larger factor but width still matters

[rigid bramble]

Yeah I do see there is a calculator here
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/eykhbatbn6

I was wondering if you had heard anything from a dev as to why xD

[quasi ocean]

Also the asteroid rate as I understand is a function of the asteroid rate of your location, your speed, and your width, so thinner platforms encounter less asteroids and therefore require less firepower, which means less mass, and less power usage which is ALSO less mass in the form of solar panels

[rigid bramble]

just because drag... in space

and then regardless of irl science, its not a value that is exposed to the player

[quasi ocean]

You seen how much rocks and space dust are out there?!

[rigid bramble]

thats what the guns are for

[quasi ocean]

It's like flying through sand

[rigid bramble]

you know I feel this is a gameplay choice
since you look at DSP, you accelerate to a speed and you maintain that speed forever, until you either hit something or manually slow down

kinda why in DSP if you miss a planet, you pretty much need to reload xD

[pliant crystal]

While I'm all for more realism when it makes for a fun challenge, do you really want to have to plan proper thruster placement and rcs for the platforms? they're so jank as is, that any real math applied to them would be /horrible/

[solid pollen]

yeah I support gamification here

[vivid jackal]

Benthams platforms are always so nice looking, meanwhile my literal hearse is a brick with thrusters.

[rigid bramble]

gamification is good, if its communicated to the player xD

[umbral meteor]

Just a notice, at 8 pm CET (7 PM BST) as i restart the Eco server, i will also restart the physical server due to Windows Update

<t:1731610800:T>

[solid pollen]

god i love that discord feature that translates the time to your region.

[umbral meteor]

really handy for things like this, of for a game launch event or the like

[rigid bramble]

its ok, we've got a steady heartbeat

[solid pollen]

well, the blue guy goes, not so sure the yellow dude is gonna make it

[rigid bramble]

Yellow and Green? nope they were DOA

[quasi ocean]

Kayinn has asked me to screenshot this thing he made. Neither of us know if or how it works

[vivid jackal]

Temporarily shut it off.

Maybe I should make them deciders instead?

I do want deciders, but also to limit the amount that's ejected.

If I set the arithmetic to be count minus the max total I want, will that send the signal to eject that amount?

Then set the selector in descending to get rid of the highest first.

[atomic aurora]

is this for getting rid of excess things from the belt?

[indigo gust]

Just set a static to the negative value for how many you want of each item and hook that and belt reading in as set filter?

[atomic aurora]

that's probably the easiest way to do it, yeah

[pliant crystal]

You were bit-shifting.

[vivid jackal]

But what is bit shifting?

[indigo gust]

0b00010100 >> 2 results in 0b000000101
Works on the bits, shifts them left or rigth

[vivid jackal]

Ah, that works but doesn't at the same time.

[indigo gust]

It can be useful for working with bitfields, if you want to multiplex several true/false values in one variable

[vivid jackal]

Right now I've get them each set to subtract total from the maximum I want on the belt. But I don't know if when that gets to a negative output what happens.

Looks like it just shuts off at that point. Perfect.

[pliant crystal]

Am on my phone on the move, but from what I can see you were shifting the bits of the binary representation of 120, 267 bits to the right xD which doesn't even make sense to be honest, as Factorio uses 32 bit integers for signals lol

[vivid jackal]

I broke the game, yay me. Quick, someone tell the devs.

[pliant crystal]

Effectively you were halving the value 120, 267 times.

[atomic aurora]

when bitshiting, dont the bits loop back aournd?

[pliant crystal]

There's no way such a value could be stored, so it simply bottomed out at 0. Hence no output signal

No, that's bit rotating arcy.

Shifting replaces bits.

[indigo gust]

Mathematically it is like oxide/(2^metallic)

[vivid jackal]

And yet, I had that set up for all three hooked up and it kept switching between them.

[pliant crystal]

Right shift has some extra clauses over left shift (differences between logic bitshifting and arithmetic bitshifting) but the nuances aren't relevant here.

When you bitshift to the right, the right most bit is discarded, and the whole sequence is shifted one bit to the right, and the gap at the left is filled. Either with zero (logical) or the sign (arithmetic)

Left shifting does the opposite, moves everything to the left, discards the left most bit, and fills the space on the right with zero.

So right shifting effectively halves a number, left shifting doubles it.

But unless you know the number is a power of 2, it's not advisable to use bitshift for multiplication or division.

[rigid bramble]

Hey Aavak, good news, legendary iron chests now have more storage

[vivid jackal]

Here's my set up for iron and copper ore.

[pliant crystal]

Wat?!

[pliant crystal]

:O

[rigid bramble]

new with patch 2.0.18

[pliant crystal]

Glory be!

Hopping on now Kayinn.

[rigid bramble]

also in the patch, demolishers will now engage spidertrons

[vivid jackal]

Uh, are they watching us?

[rigid bramble]

no, people do write bug reports on the forums

unless, we have a biter sympathiser among us 😮

[hearty meteor]

I think duffelfish is protesting too much.

[indigo gust]

Just a tip: you can achieve the same by simply connecting a static combinator with -200 for iron ore and copper ore. Signals from multiple sources are added, so a static combinator with negative values is like subtracting a constant value.

[rigid bramble]

but biters are food for the fish

[indigo gust]

So many bugs in these factory games...

[quasi ocean]

Oh DAMN

[vivid jackal]

Right, that's what thebpermanent signal is for.

[quasi ocean]

that's huge

[vivid jackal]

Dad jokes for the win.

[rigid bramble]

Bentham's dreams of a legendary iron chest factory have been realised

[vivid jackal]

@umbral meteor about how long will the server be down?

[quasi ocean]

And what version are we updating to?

[hearty meteor]

I'm betting 24 hours ;P
(But more probable: 10 minutes or so?)

[umbral meteor]

Physical Server needed a restart due to update xD

[vivid jackal]

@quasi ocean you might need to haul a ton of refined concrete to Aquilo, other then paving we need it for structures.

[umbral meteor]

Windows Update

[hearty meteor]

So no 24 hour update time?

[quasi ocean]

It's already en route 😛

[umbral meteor]

i'm just waiting to hear the "Beep" from the restart xD

[vivid jackal]

Landing are has a good amount of space, but one of the liquids is a single input.

[umbral meteor]

Server is back up now, still on 2.15 as that's the latest stable

[vivid jackal]

Be there soon

I love the visual of the thruster.

[woeful geyser]

I mean we both know what you're going to do with that. :p

I need to get back to my factory... and make a proper fulgora factory.

[rigid bramble]

I'm just enjoying a ski holiday

[woeful geyser]

I might hop on the community server just to see how others did that. Given I have solved the planet (as in, I researched a tech) I feel I am allowed to look at how to scale it up XD

[rigid bramble]

Zangiry-Kajjit has a set up for you, if you have coin

one day I'll return for a proper Fulgorian bus

I also may have made a few atomic bombs...

oh, was someone asking how fast you can make and laucnh rockets accounting for the doors opening?

cus if you make em fast enough, the doors just don't close

[vivid jackal]

@quasi ocean I've got my platform grabbing nuclear fuel if you want to use it.

[rigid bramble]

Ah bite this Biters... oh wait, you can't reach me

[indigo gust]

Example of my Gleba setup, with quality modules, still only running 2 of each farm, got to secure more land to avoid raids if I want to increase production. ||Fruit feeds in at the bottom, normal iron and copper continue above. Uncommon quality has it's own bioflux loop over on the left, higher quality is still on bots. Egg and science factory by my labs is supplied with an item limited belt going way up north. Using machine to machine inserters, so normal mash and jelly is never on belts, but seeds and quality fruit products go out on their own belts. Bioflux production is conveniently placed in between the two types of fruit||

[woeful geyser]

Okaaaaay not gonna click on that because I have not been to Gleba yet.

[rigid bramble]

goddamn, I just Alpha Striked a big stomper

[indigo gust]

Oh, I somehow read planet as Gleba in your message, sorry - my Fulgora is just a basic one belt sorting bus, planning on going back there now with some better miners and expand to grab more scrap

aaand I have no idea what to do with all the concrete so I just keep adding chests whenever it starts backing up

[rigid bramble]

grind it down into legendary iron ore

[indigo gust]

putting quality grinders on the overflows there is certainly not the worst way of dealing with clogs

[rigid bramble]

but how do I deeal with the logic behind fulfilling space platform requests

[vivid jackal]

What trouble are you having duffel?

[vivid jackal]

If the worms attack spidertron now, how much damage do they do?

[quasi ocean]

Legendary quality has been unlocked on the community server

Now the game really begins

[pliant crystal]

While trying to sleep I had an apiphany about omni-smelter circuits. must test, or brain no allow sleep.

[quasi ocean]

lmao

[indigo gust]

Are there any reliable designs for dealing with steel and stones in them? It is more relevant now with quality, as it is undesirable if several smelters gets stuck waiting for a high quality raw item.

[vivid jackal]

Steel smelters right?

[pliant crystal]

Yup, just made one X-BT

It'll never clog, literally can't start a job unless it will finish it.

Making it handle different qualities though is a quandry, but doable.

In fact, actually it's pretty simple, oddly...

Quick question, I know plate can have a quality, but can the raw ores?

[indigo gust]

Yes, quality module in miners

[vivid jackal]

That's a lot of quality modules to grind out.

If anyone gets on the community server, the production science was getting starved of production modules so I had to adjust the quality grinder line, but now it's the only module type that isn't being made into tier 3.

[pliant crystal]

Yup, it works.

It's both an omni-material, and an omni-quality smelter.

Or as Bentham just coined; it's an omni-omni smelter

[vivid jackal]

Also, Aavak the filter you designed didn't end up working at all. And neither of us could figure out why.

[pliant crystal]

You need to be more specific.

[indigo gust]

And no risk of getting stuck in case of a power outage?

[pliant crystal]

Nope, using a stack inserter, it's incapable of picking something up if it can't grab the entire load in one go.

[vivid jackal]

And setting a stack limit based on what item is supposed to pick up?

[indigo gust]

They changed them? I've had mine stuck trying to output mixed quality ore from a chest onto a belt

[pliant crystal]

Yup, sets the stack size based on what should be smelted.

It's working for me Kayinn.

(had to test it with some copper ore, and a MUCH lower amount than 200, but still XD)

[indigo gust]

Nice

[vivid jackal]

Wonder if it's because I was tying the hub into it to read the entire belt. Belt reading stops at splitters after all.

[pliant crystal]

It is removing anything above the cutoff (2, for now) of the things I told it to care about (notice how the iron plate is left alone, but the copper and iron ore are being pulled off)

It shouldn't matter if it's tied into a storage too, that should be fine, it'll just consider the contents of the storage as well then, so the belt might get quite empty.

[vivid jackal]

I can't get wire deleting to work for some reason, but I found the putting a wire from one side of the splitter to the other also works.

[pliant crystal]

Want me to wire this up on the herse?

[vivid jackal]

I had it wired exactly like that, with all the settings the same but the inserter never activated. Bentham ended up doing his version while I was setting up Aquilo.

[pliant crystal]

Weird.

[vivid jackal]

But feel free to aet it up to see if it works. Maybe I did something wrong?

[pliant crystal]

Nah, if you have a working system, no reason to mess with it :)

[vivid jackal]

The whole point was to slim it down to just one inserter anyways.

[indigo gust]

Ah, those are bulk inserters (the confusing change of terminology)?

[quasi ocean]

all I know is i was presented with a set of combinators that were simply doing nothing. iirc it started with an arithmetic combinator that was multiplying each by G but there was no G, the inserter wasn't getting any signal of out the setup

[vivid jackal]

I just know there's an option to set manual stack sizes when you wire inserters.

[quasi ocean]

I just hooked up a decider to the belt that was if each > 100, output each and set inserter filters from that (200 was too high, the belt jammed)

[indigo gust]

Nvm, different topic I guess

[pliant crystal]

As for you X-BT, yes, the new stack inserters.

They only rotate if they have a full stack.

[vivid jackal]

Yeah, I couldn't figure out where the g was supposed to be or go.

[pliant crystal]

Not at all sure why the G was even there XD It Should have been each, was when I logged off (took a screen shot, was going to annotate it) I assumed you had been playing around with it to understand how it worked when I came over to check just now.

[indigo gust]

Yeah, that all makes sense now, can they grab 10? If so that may work with static stack size

[vivid jackal]

Nope, found it with g and thought it meant green wire so I left it.

You did make it right as you said youbwere going to bed.

@quasi ocean you said you set up the logic for roboports to add robots right? Why set it to a static number when you can have it be increased based on the number of roboports?

[quasi ocean]

🤷‍♂️

I like round numbers

[vivid jackal]

You can always set it with a command to change stack size based on the item.

[pliant crystal]

Set it up (kept a backup blueprint to quickly undo incase of failure!) but it's working fine on the ship.

I used belts to carry the red wire around, without having it cross into the central storage.

[vivid jackal]

I was just thinking that since the roboports read robots and port amounts you could have it set up to have 5 robots each per roboport set up.

[pliant crystal]

That's true.

[indigo gust]

Yeah, I just like to see how simple things can be done - if setting the stack inserters stack size to 10 is all it really takes...

[pliant crystal]

I do it the static way too, but you're right, I should read the number of roboports.

(well... by static, I set it to insert more bots if there are ever less than 10 available XD)

[vivid jackal]

So it really was just because it had multiplying by g instead of each.

[pliant crystal]

Yeah, seems it. Maybe I missclicked after taking the screenshot :/

The belt is pretty full of ice, do you want me to add that to the 'dump list'?

[vivid jackal]

Yeah, I had everything set up to dump.

[pliant crystal]

(basically just add a signal with the value of 1 for any item you want the inserters to remove)

Makes sense, I usually run on a tighter budget (even 100 seems a lot to me lol) and when keeping numbers low there's some things you want to give express exceptions for.

[vivid jackal]

For a guy who has no idea about logic commands I did pretty good with this initial set up.

Before I had an inserter just dumping anything it could grab.

[pliant crystal]

It's a great ship :D

What're peeps opinions on modules for smelters & beacons?

What do you go for?

[vivid jackal]

If I'm dealing with limited input, then production to allow for more with less. If input is greater then speed to allow greater throughput.

[pliant crystal]

What about quality? Ever use those in the smelters or always avoid?

[indigo gust]

I'm using quality a lot

[vivid jackal]

Usually I'm trying to boost production to match Benthams increasing intermediary and finished product creation. I spend all my game time on the community server right now. Just got robots on my personal game.

I always show up after the increased productions blows through the stockpile and has almost completely stalled.

[indigo gust]

Regular smelters are only really relevant for dealing with quality ores for me now, as foundries have much better production boost

So I would go with quality for less than max quality ores. Productivity for max quality input.

[vivid jackal]

Quality vs quantity? Nope, have some of each.

[indigo gust]

In chains tapping into the infinite ore sources I would say that productivity is not as relevant as it used to be if you can instead increase the source output.

[vivid jackal]

I have no idea how to fix the slow production science line, without screwing things up.

[pliant crystal]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Bentham, your biters are hungry!!!

Grapevine just left, your train has no spots left open for bioflux D:

Wait, it has reserved spots... why isn't it picking any up?!

ARGH, your inserter is holding a hand full of rot. must have spoiled while it was holding onto it ready to load.

Added a circuit condition to the inserter holding the bioflux, so that it will only activate if a train is in the station, and will only ever pick up as much as it can fit in the train, so that when the train leaves, it's never left holding onto any bioflux that might rot in its hand while the train's away, thus jamming the system.

Reads bioflux on the train and deducts it from 300 (which looks to be the set amount you allow the train to hold), as long as T is greater than 0 (signifying a train is in the station) it passes that value and converts it to S, which is read by the inserter to overide it's stack size.

[rigid bramble]

ah, the rot strikes again

mine just turns in orbit since I can't get a signal sent to the platform to go get some

as for modules I'd probably say prod in the machines, and speed in the beacons, though with the extra transmission boost you might want 1 speed, 1 eff in a beacon

[pliant crystal]

I snaged one of the older iron smelting lines to test out a compact omnismelter; it requires a bit of jank combinator magic to make sure it doesn't jam up because there's no where to set up a proper export system for varying things, but it's working and whouldn't cause issues even if it does break as there's plenty of capacity to make everything elsewhere.

[indigo gust]

How does a stack inserter behave if picking off a belt, still not turning until full? And how do they behave if filters change while they are picking? Continue picking the previous item until full or do they turn to drop off even if not full if the held item is forbidden by the current filter?

[pliant crystal]

Not sure I'm afraid, I use a bulk inserter to load items into a chest, and then stack inserters to pull from that chest into neighbouring smelters.

That way, I can ensure there's a buffer of materials (I always know there's at least as many materials as the stack inserters would try to pick up, if not more)

It prevents the smelter stack from being as compact as I'd like, but I need circuitry for the smelter anyway, so the space I use for the inserter chest combo also houses the combinators.

[rigid bramble]

a stack inserter should always wait for a full stack, bulk inserters I believe have a timer

[umbral meteor]

^

also, hello all

[indigo gust]

Yeah, I'm trying to think if there is a simple way to do it without individual logic and buffers. The major problem would be stack inserters stuck with half full loads if picking directly from belt to smelter. If they continue picking the item they hold even when the filter changes, all it would take is to supply the belt with the amount of items missing in the inserters still picking a forbidden item. And they can in any case be forced to continue picking what they hold by having hand contents wired to set filter.

[rigid bramble]

I just wouldn't use stack inserters to insert items

[umbral meteor]

that's fine, if from chest to machine or only one item is imput from that location

[indigo gust]

It is for the Omni smelter, it relies on stack inserter for the exact hand size to avoid a half full steel smelter

[rigid bramble]

*bulk inserter
(I hope xD)

[umbral meteor]

not much difference in hand size of Stack and Bulk inserters

[indigo gust]

It is the lack of timeout that is key

[rigid bramble]

iirc Stackers go so much higher than Bulk, and that bulk hold less that the stack inserter they replaced

[umbral meteor]

iirc Stack is a +2 compared to Bulk

[indigo gust]

Stack will always do the set amount, bulk or others may insert less

[umbral meteor]

yup

[rigid bramble]

oh wait, won't a stacker be limited by how big your stacks can be?

[indigo gust]

It can lift multiple stacks

[rigid bramble]

oh yeah, hmm

[indigo gust]

Is productivity lost when the smelter changes recipe? If so that is a disadvantage of using omni for quality, which is the only reason I see for using electric smelters late game for other than rocks to brick.

[umbral meteor]

i found my new modpack to try xD

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Warp-Drive-Machine

[rigid bramble]

Sounds just like Warptorio

[umbral meteor]

essentially is, but in space

[rigid bramble]

ah it is based on those mods I see

[umbral meteor]

xD

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/delete-gleba

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/delete-fulgora

🤣

[rigid bramble]

ok so its 1+11 vs 5+11

[woeful geyser]

Next challenge: Omni Foundry.

Spaghet pipe.

[rigid bramble]

I'm just trying to remember what I was doing before my enforced sojourn at Aquillo

though what modules do people use on their science producers?

[indigo gust]

I've been thinking about that one, copper+iron to plates, and steel (and wires, gears, pipes, rods, LDS) is no problem, so the smelting tasks is easy. More challenging if you include the recipes that use lubricant, as then you need pumps to evacuate and fill at least one of the two inlets to swap over to different liquid. Will easily take more space than adding a dedicated foundry for those recipes.

[rigid bramble]

also side note, seems the 2.0.18 patch is still experimental

[umbral meteor]

given that stable is 15, it is a jump to 18 xD

[rigid bramble]

though on the forums it doesn't seem they differentiate between stable and experimental

[woeful geyser]

Concrete as well for water

[umbral meteor]

i REALLY need to rebuild my base....

i've been on a stand still since deconstructing, just "stuck in a rut" so to speak

[rigid bramble]

I upgraded science then ran away again

[indigo gust]

I've got a habit of never allocating enough extra room around the bus and between the branches - at least the stack inserters helps a lot on throughput without having to add more belts

[umbral meteor]

that is also a thing, plan were to have external smelting and such, and belted main bus.

but now i'm just in the "fuck it, let's just go full on bot based" mood

still external smelting, intermediate production, but no belted main bus...

[rigid bramble]

I got this far though... xD

[umbral meteor]

i am here xD

[rigid bramble]

Gleba has more of a realised end game bus, and that is being fed from space

[rigid bramble]

though I wonder, what signals can I send to artillery

[umbral meteor]

also this xD

after rebuilding it 4 times....

[rigid bramble]

meanwhile on Fulgora...

[umbral meteor]

My Fulgora is actually stable now

[rigid bramble]

though I think I need to push out my Gleba cordon to cover artillery range

[woeful geyser]

I... can't tell what you're making here.

Are you using trains to bring in ore rather than melting on site?

[rigid bramble]

that is literally as far as I've got xD

no idea where the resouces come from, or where they go

[woeful geyser]

Might I suggest melting at the resource patch?

[indigo gust]

why?

[woeful geyser]

Liquid density vs item density is hilarious

[atomic aurora]

That's honestly such a good idea that I'm glad I read this before reworking my entire nauvis

[woeful geyser]

It's 50 ore into 500 molten right?

[atomic aurora]

It's not that big a difference, but it's much easier to handle imo

[indigo gust]

yup, and you need to bring in calcite

[woeful geyser]

A pitiful amount

[rigid bramble]

you and what army of pumps?

[atomic aurora]

Technically, with the inherent productivity, it's 50 ore into 750 liquid,which means in one liquid car you can have about 1.667 train cars worth of ore

[rigid bramble]

so no, not smelting at the resource patch xD

[woeful geyser]

You transport the molten metal in liquid trains

[atomic aurora]

But like I said, handling liquid is much easier than ore, since one pipe can carry many green belts worth of ore in liquid form

[rigid bramble]

I don't think that is going to work somehow

[woeful geyser]

Works like a charm

[atomic aurora]

And a liquid car is filled and emptied much faster than a train car of ore

Distribution is so much simpler with liquids than solids

Theres just so many upsides

[indigo gust]

and that is actually not quite right, it is 50 ore to 750 molten or more with productivity modules

[indigo gust]

Internet died for a moment - I see it was already pointed out

[woeful geyser]

I forgot about that.

[rigid bramble]

also calcite

[woeful geyser]

Still, for the tiny amount of calcite you have to ship around it just makes your loading/ unloading so much simpler

[woeful geyser]

I have a 1-1-1 running around for that

[rigid bramble]

its another train and another pair of stations

you are free to do it of course xD

[woeful geyser]

But your liquid trains will run far less often than ore trains

[rigid bramble]

surely they should run just as fast to make sure I get more processing?

[atomic aurora]

With max productivity, carrying ore actually becomes more resource dense again, but liquid is still easier to transport

[woeful geyser]

Foundries are fucking insane.

[indigo gust]

can't barrel it and put it on the omni trains 😦

[rigid bramble]

the point is, why transport more material if you're not going to use it xD

[atomic aurora]

All of the +50% base productivity buildings are amazing, apart from the biochamber which needs special fule

[woeful geyser]

Because liquids are much easier to handle?

And it allows me to scale much easier

My new smelting setup takes up 1/4th of what I had to allocate for smelters. And outputs more than that

Or well just as much but I can easily scale that up

[rigid bramble]

yes but I'm not going to be smelting 1.3km into biter territory, I want as small a pollution footprint as I can get xD

but if thats what you want to do, thats cool, but its not what I want to do

[woeful geyser]

What's the pollution of a foundry vs smelters actually

[rigid bramble]

I feel that depends on power usage

and its 6/m vs 1/m

and with prod, 14/m vs 2.2/m?

40/m on a big miner, ouch

[woeful geyser]

I asked the wrong question: compare it versus the big drill...

[rigid bramble]

so its 10 vs 40

oh, prod modules have an additional pollution value?

[woeful geyser]

If you insert 2 drills into a foundry you're saving pollution compared to using 3 miners in that same space

So they're the green option

[rigid bramble]

or I just do 2, and let the main base take the bigger pollution hit

[indigo gust]

Regarding biters late game; ||is scrapping bot rockets an option for transporting bioflux spoilage free or at least keeping an emergency stockpile of it on Nauvis?||

[rigid bramble]

oh, my biter spawners turned, oops

[umbral meteor]

is stranded in a frozen hell hole

[pliant crystal]

I deliver freedom!

Go, swim free in the toxic soup.

[rigid bramble]

wait, you can put fish in the water now? 😮

[pliant crystal]

Yup

I drop off a few thousand every time the chest fills up.

We will never run out of fish!

[umbral meteor]

sadly you can't automate it with inserters

[pliant crystal]

No :(

[rigid bramble]

fish

[vivid jackal]

Then you'd have a fish flinger.

[indigo gust]

but they can fish them out of the water iirc?

[pliant crystal]

yup

[woeful geyser]

Wait that's vanilla now?

[umbral meteor]

fishing with inserters has been for a while xD

[rigid bramble]

I didn't think the grabbing them out of the water was readded since 0.14
Though I noticed in Seablock it was doing it

But I'm going to be away from my factory for a few days

[umbral meteor]

[rigid bramble]

Gotta let you catch up like :p

[umbral meteor]

oh, i'm done xD

i only have two options left to do atm, do i grind legendary for achievement or just facetank my way to the edge and "win"

[rigid bramble]

Did you get the end screen?

[umbral meteor]

that's what i have left, as i just said xD

"or just facetank my way to the edge and "win""

[vivid jackal]

Is there such a thing as winning in factorio, or it just the tease for the next dlc?

[woeful geyser]

There is an actual win condition now.

Actually always has been one but there's a new one.

[umbral meteor]

Originally -> Build a rocket turret -> WIN
then -> Launch Rocket -> Win
and now -> Reach edge of solar system -> Win

[vivid jackal]

To be fair, they used the base game win condition as the basis for the dlcs start.

[umbral meteor]

this is true

and DLC add just as much, if not more content, as base game

[hearty meteor]

They've said they don't plan for there being any further DLC for Factorio at all. The next big project would be a new game

[umbral meteor]

tbh, there even being a DLC came as a surprise to me

when it were announced they were making one that is

[vivid jackal]

It would be cool if going to the edge you'd have to shoot your character in a rocket, thus starting a new game from scratch.

[umbral meteor]

you know what, i'm just going to go "finish" the game,
i've kinda burned myself out anyways, so i need a break.

played 170h since i got the DLC, or in the last two weeks

and i'm on my way, at 261.63 km/s

[hearty meteor]

Is that healthy?

[rigid bramble]

Must go faster

[indigo gust]

gah, custom import on platforms is kind of stupid - rocket launches even if there is more available in the logistics network

[umbral meteor]

it's just an average of 11.5h a day......

@hearty meteor

[rigid bramble]

You need to make a nuke needle

Imo, custom imports are more for if you have or want less than a rocketfull

[indigo gust]

I want it to go with whatever is available, problem is that the rocket launches once it reaches the min level even if there is more in the logistics network ready to load in

Anyway, had a silo that was in manual mode forwarding platform requests to my radar network - so I could just drop the items in there as a buffer instead of using automatic loading with bots

[vivid jackal]

@quasi ocean we need quality bots on Aquilo so bad.

[woeful geyser]

@quasi ocean Internet said I had enough time... I should set up quality grinding and more production of stuff... later. Hopefully.

[umbral meteor]

[quasi ocean]

Now we have legendary quality, it's time to start quality grinding EVERYTHING. Bots are definitely on the list

as are inserters

I've been spoiled on all legendary inserters in my solo run for too long, being without them is horrible

[umbral meteor]

i have one, i repeat 1 legendary bulk inserter xD

[vivid jackal]

Quality bots would work so much better on Aquilo, they run through power 5 times faster on that planet.

[quasi ocean]

And legendary bots have 5 times the power

So legendary bots on aquilo work as well as normal bots on the other planets

[vivid jackal]

They also reach much farther.

[umbral meteor]

due to having more power/charge they have a longer range/reach

before they need to recharge

[woeful geyser]

Isn't Gleba essentially the "everything is a burner" challenge except you have a waste product

I do like how every one of the 3 starter planets has a way to delete items.

[rigid bramble]

Burner tower OP

[woeful geyser]

Isn't it just nuclear but smol

[rigid bramble]

Though I wouldn't use spoilage as fuel for inserters

[woeful geyser]

I'm excited to start cooking with quality

[rigid bramble]

But yes, works just like nuclear, but iirc it only fits 4 exchangers

[woeful geyser]

Yeah because no neighbour bonus

[rigid bramble]

Though you gotta remember a nuclear fuel cell has 1.21 Gj of energy

I wonder who on the team is a fan of BTTF

[woeful geyser]

Probably a few.

[rigid bramble]

Well you got Mr Fusion
And then the one point twenty one jiga watts

Though ideally you just|| burn the rocket fuel you make||
||And the eggs||

Cough, spoilers

[woeful geyser]

Tbh I think Fulgora could've had more interesting things... like why do I get free solid fuel when I have infinite heavy oil I can just make into solid fuel

[rigid bramble]

I guess you can prod the heavy oil cracking
But well you need to crack anyway

[woeful geyser]

Yeah for the small amount of light you need for certain things.

[rigid bramble]

Like rocket fuel? xD

[woeful geyser]

That and some of the recipes

But I'd hoped for like better trains or something.

Electric trains which eat capacitors but are silly fast would've been fun

[rigid bramble]

I'm not sure what you want light oil for besides rocket fuel

[woeful geyser]

One of the Fulgora unique items needs light oil?

[rigid bramble]

Oh it does doesn't it
Honestly I set up a science chain and ran away

[woeful geyser]

You know. What if instead of steel and gears scrap had engine units

That would have been exceedingly funny

[rigid bramble]

Idk, just adds another step to get to iron and steel

[woeful geyser]

Makes bots and trains easier though

[rigid bramble]

Just import them xD

[woeful geyser]

Yeah I should import bots...

[rigid bramble]

But like you get the LDS and blue circuits to bypass making plastic and sulphuric acid
And/or rocket parts

[woeful geyser]

Yeah making rockets on Fulgora is disgustingly easy

Literally all you have to do is make rocket fuel.

[rigid bramble]

And you get ice and solid fuel to help with that

But then rocket fuel is easy anywhere xD

[woeful geyser]

I'm sad at how much ice you get... I was hoping to shoot it down from orbit but it's just not needed

[woeful geyser]

Ehhh it's my main bottleneck on Vulcanus

[rigid bramble]

Just make more

Even easier if you use proper liquefaction?

Make the blocks with petroleum or heavy etc

I'll do it when I return to set up more titanium

You need to go visit gleba xD

[indigo gust]

It does remind me of the start phase of pyanodon, like the first 60 hours or so until green circuits

[rigid bramble]

Just orbital drop copper and iron into smelter

[solid pollen]

"first 60 hours or so UNTIL green circuits" .

all i need to hear to never play pyanodons

[indigo gust]

might be a slight exaggeration, and of course depends on how efficient you are at figuring out how to lay out the production of new recipes, but there is lots of stuff to do before green circuits, like growing trees, and moss, and quite a bit of fluid processing, different metals required to make the circuits (lead and tin to make solder), glass. And until green circuits the assemblers and inserters are burner iirc - and turns fuel into ash, so lots of ash to deal with.

[rigid bramble]

Imagine playing Pys for 10hrs before you get splitters

Though at one point you need the ash

[hearty meteor]

Time to start Pyblock?

[solid pollen]

I mean now every inserter is a filter inserter, surely that makes it a bit easier COPIUM

[rigid bramble]

20hrs to research filter inserters xD

[indigo gust]

in pyanodon even the burner inserters had filter iirc - possibly defaulting to not output their own ash onto belts

[solid pollen]

ah RIP

[solid pollen]

this should stop bottlenecking, no circuits required

laziest way i could do it ACHIEVED!

[rigid bramble]

What happens when you fill up on holmium

[solid pollen]

everything freezes until more holmium can be spent? isnt flling up on holmium the DREAM?

its literally hol(d )m(y dr)ium

so now I just have to deal with Gleba.... its Gleebin' time!

[atomic aurora]

In the time it took me to deal with gleba, all the scrap deposits I had tapped on fulgora ran out. Don't know exactly how much it was, but I think it was more than a mil of scrap, with big drills and about level 20 mining productivity

I think my mistake on fulgora was first moving utility science production there, then grinding down holmium if I filled up on that to facilitate that, and then also grinding higher quality modules on fulgora.

[solid pollen]

I just kept research on nauvis for simplicity

[atomic aurora]

my idea was that one other planets, most or all of the components of some science packs are a low-level intermediary to conquering the planet, so makeing that science pack on that planet makes sense

like production on vulcanus, with the literal infinite stone you have to find some way to get rid of anyway

[woeful geyser]

The literal lava lakes in question:

[umbral meteor]

Combinator: "If stone is over 10k/100k output stone 1" -> enable inserter throwing it from chest directly into lava,
that is if you just don't direct insert from Foundry into lava xD

actually, combinator is only needed if you use it for "set requerst" on a requester chest xD

[indigo gust]

I only recently needed to add an overflow route to the lava for stone - I find using the splitter priority optimal as that has no power cost

[solid pollen]

i was lazy and just did a priority splitter to a small furnance stack for stone bricks 😛

[umbral meteor]

but power is essentially free on Volcanis anyway xD

[indigo gust]

that is how I started, then I had too much bricks, and now I also have too much quality bricks after dropping quality modules in the lava input foundries

[umbral meteor]

One Chemical Plant: Acid + Calcite -> ~ 33 Steam Turbines

[indigo gust]

I just like to stick with splitter priorities wherever possible, got a splitter overflowing into buffer and that buffer feeding back into the line

[indigo gust]

I moved it to Gleba for simplicity of not sending spoiling science through space then moved it ||back to Nauvis due to biolab||

[solid pollen]

yeah I can imagine doing that myself if it becomes too annoying

[woeful geyser]

Hopped on the server a little and plugged the south hole. The wall is VERY primitive (only lasers because I could not be asked to build something better) but it should help?

[atomic aurora]

does anyone have a good way of using the stack inserters on a space platform to condense the output of asteroid crushers?

every way I've tried so far locks up with something that lo longer gets made cuz that product is sufficiently served, or the intermediary belt is full

[woeful geyser]

I also upgraded all of the bulk inserters for train unloading to stack inserters and downgraded bulk inserters on our steel smelters (they were prone to getting stuck on one of the 2 resources)

[woeful geyser]

Oh and I did some fancy shenanigans for red/green circuits to remove the long inserters it had. Looks kinda neat!

[indigo gust]

One inserter for each output type?

Also, isn't it better to compress the astroids for resource density?

Could maybe use filters defined by a negative value hand size -1 plus machine contents to make sure it will only unload if full hand, but may not work if output blocks the machine before hand size is reached

[woeful geyser]

Stack inserters will only swing with a full hand.

[indigo gust]

That is why you would use filter to block it from picking before there is hand size items available to pick.

[rigid bramble]

I believe you can adjust how big the hand is?

[woeful geyser]

Yup.

[rigid bramble]

On a stacker

[woeful geyser]

Yeah you can.

I'm currently stuck in a state where I want to improve my Fulgora but thinking about it makes my brain melt...

[rigid bramble]

Though I usually use them to better fill a belt on a space platform
Like with ammo, or the fuel ingredients

[indigo gust]

I just used them to fit more nutrient on my nutrient bus, saved me from upgrading the belts

[rigid bramble]

Imo, you could set up fulgora to make science enough to get the tech you want, and just move onto Gleba

[woeful geyser]

Yeah but my current Fulgora's a fucking mess and unlike Vulcanus where I can just cliff explosive myself some more space, here I can't and I have a hard time working with said limited space...

[rigid bramble]

Just gotta find the biggest island you can

[woeful geyser]

My current island is... big, but not in the right way.

XD

[rigid bramble]

Plus, you can come back with new tech

[woeful geyser]

Ngl I do feel that Vulcanus > Fulgora > Gleba feels very natural cause you can use the Foundry on Fulgora for them extra plates.

[indigo gust]

I just got holium going and the basic fulgora stuff, made the big miners to go back there and expand scrap gathering as it is running dry, but got my hands full with Gleba

[rigid bramble]

I feel that you are free to do whatever order, since you need to go to them all anyway, and they all unlock different things to help

[indigo gust]

By accident my egg farm was fed quality bioflux, that did not end well...

[woeful geyser]

... did you make quality biters.

😂

[indigo gust]

Nah, just that it relied on bioflux for the nutrient for the eggs, so they spoiled

[rigid bramble]

Iirc the only way to get quality eggs is ||by recycling||

[indigo gust]

The place was heavily rigged with turrets

[indigo gust]

||for biters I presume so, for pentapods I would think quality modules in the biochamber||

[rigid bramble]

Yeah, that

Though anything with spoilables is on a timer to make quality versions

[solid pollen]

this is my path. and you can use fulgora to get free concrete on gleba to pave that shit out!

[rigid bramble]

Roadtrain just needs to go Gleba, instead of being scared of it

[woeful geyser]

The only thing I'm gonna struggle with on Gleba is the enemies... Apart from that I think I'll spaghet my way through it just fine.

[rigid bramble]

Until you fight them, you'll never know

[umbral meteor]

[rigid bramble]

Its ok 15 artillery shots on target will deal with a large stomper quite handily

[woeful geyser]

... the fuck how're you shooting it with artillery

[rigid bramble]

Only the ones I can see
Just bind use to mouse wheel, roll off those 15 shots

I will say you need a proactive defence rather than a reactive - hit them before they hit you

[umbral meteor]

eeeh, autoclicker, 100 clicks a second xD

and watch the carnage

[rigid bramble]

But modern mice have one built in, called a mouse wheel xD

[umbral meteor]

my new mouse does as well, and you can turn off the "click, click" so it free spins xD

[quasi ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/you-don't-invincible-omni-man-jk-simmons-that's-the-neat-thing-gif-4390372980992221432

[rigid bramble]

For the record, not a fan of macro-ing clicks or similar things
Unless you have it set to a human level of clicking speed

[umbral meteor]

i had 300k stored, then i started quality grinding for legendary recyclers... 20k left now xD

nevermind, it's the lightning turret grind that is eating it xD

5 Epic Elecromagnetic Plants with 5 Speed 3 modules each, all running at more or less full bore making Electrolyte....

[woeful geyser]

Yeah so... Gleba is a permanent problem child?

[hearty meteor]

I'm not a fan of Wube removing the possibility to Artillery paint.

Without doing outside things

Addendum

[woeful geyser]

One thing I did notice is that spoods have radar.

[indigo gust]

I haven't had much problems with the pentapods on Gleba, but then I built a rocket turret wall encircling my entire spore cloud, so haven't had any raids since first evolution level. Recently had to turret creep their base to restock eggs after my incident at the egg farm.

[vivid jackal]

I've spent way too long trying to decide what to quality grind for first. It's quality modules right?

[quasi ocean]

absolutely

[umbral meteor]

yes

[vivid jackal]

I feel so dumb right now

[umbral meteor]

and then i went for a few Assembler 3's

[quasi ocean]

First quality modules, then the EM plants you make them in, then the recylcers ypu recycle them with

Then, yes, assemblers

other modules

stuff that goes in platforms

[umbral meteor]

i actually went for Bulk inserter before other modules, as a way to speed up the transfer process

[quasi ocean]

personal equipment

[umbral meteor]

your armor 😄

SOOO nice to have a BIG grid

[solid pollen]

will spawners appear if i concrete everything within a mile of my base?

will the big crabs get a speed boost on my concrete jungle?

[vivid jackal]

Enemies are not affected by speed boosts.

Right now I'm struggling with my factory shifting into automating blue chip production, but haven't automated anything military besides ammo and walls.

And running out of resources for it all.

What do you do when thers no good choke points near you?

[rigid bramble]

Artillery paint?

[hearty meteor]

Dragging your cursor on the map while holding down the "shoot artillery" button

[rigid bramble]

Also @woeful geyser they don't expand as hard as biters I've notice, but its easier to deal them mano-a-pentapod, than relying on defences to hold

iirc artillery has always been a single click per target, dragging with M1 in 1.1 moved the camera, but 2.0 changed use to M2

[hearty meteor]

Eh, I know I rebound map movement away from dragging with mouse click, and then it would just "artillery paint" when you held down M1 and moved the mouse around

I'm just moving the map with WASD anyway

I haven't actually tried it myself in 2.0, but other people have complained about not being able to artillery paint, even with rebinding map movement away

[rigid bramble]

Having it on M1 would cause me to inadvertently wobble the camera when using the remote

Maybe I twitch my hand as I click sometimes?

[hearty meteor]

But how would that wobble the camera when having only WASD as the camera movement in map view?

[rigid bramble]

I don't have my controls set that way

[hearty meteor]

Well, then that's a you problem, innit? ;P

[rigid bramble]

Never said it wasn't

[hearty meteor]

I'm just legging your pull

[rigid bramble]

Anyway, what was the interval on this 'painting'

You know people kicked up a fuss on Warframe when they reduced semi-auto fire to human possible speeds, because they couldn't dump a magazine in 0.001s

[hearty meteor]

The painting was pretty fast. Don't remember exactly, but it was pretty fast.

[rigid bramble]

I can imagine it was fixed to prevent accidental overkill

[hearty meteor]

Then it would've probably been noted as a fix, and way earlier than for 2.0

[rigid bramble]

Maybe it was an inconsequential change, fixed by rebinding the key

I mean I certainly only want to fire once, no matter how long I hold the button down

[pliant crystal]

Can't sleep, brain full of train (actually, primarily full of bio chamber) but while pondering bio chamber, I realised that between coal synthesis, simple coal liquefaction, and coal liquefaction, Gleba could have oil products with a one-time delivery of 2 calcite (which is more of an incidental product than heavy oil, which would have to be explicitly imported for that purpose, while any passing platform likely has spare calcite -- once advanced asteroid harvesting is researched)

Then just priority fill the heavy oil tank for future coal liquefaction cycles, burn off petroleum gas (as solid fuel), crack any excess heavy oil into light oil, and finally, dance beneath the stars as your silhouette is painted on the shells of dead Stompers by the burning horizon.

[umbral meteor]

Platform can make the oil, barrel it and send it down with calcite 😄

but as you said, need advanced asteroid harvesting

[solid pollen]

either you keep expanding look for them(which sucks) or you set up mini outposts (like aavak did) or you spend the next 10 hours building one big ass wall block

[indigo gust]

Big ass wall block it was for me, at least on Gleba. I segmented the repair logistics for the walls so I don't have to cover the entire interior with roboports. Got requester chests in the main logistics to forward requests from the segments and inserters to bring the items across the logistic gap. Buffer chests at every second roboport with repair supplies and also set each roboport to request construction bots so they don't all end up wherever there was damage last.

[woeful geyser]

You could even put a satellite in Gleba orbit dropping Calcite down to the planet if you so desire: This would also allow you to give yourself a massive boost with some other stuff

[umbral meteor]

Fusion Power Online!

[indigo gust]

Btw, have you tested if that works, that you get the eggs? I tried recycling Agri science after another incident, but only got Agri science out. Luckily the bioreactors that maintain eggs during idle still must have had an unspoiled egg, likely thanks to having an emergency nutrient requester installed after the first incident.

[umbral meteor]

Ship Railgun 1:

Kills: 898
Damage dealt: 93111400

Ship Railgun 2:

Kills: 757
Damage dealt: 78655300

set to only target Huge

Aquilo -> Edge -> Aquilo

[rigid bramble]

I've only heard tell that biter eggs can't get quality directly
But I assume pentapod eggs can get quality from reprocessing

[umbral meteor]

three smol in one image

[indigo gust]

Maybe just science not working for that, I should test with other products as it is nice to have an emergency reserve of ||non-spoiling eggs||

[rigid bramble]

Just keep spinning the one egg round and round

[umbral meteor]

@rigid brambleVulcanis turret creep i go 😄

[woeful geyser]

Not sure who owns the BTV Kestrel but it's currently jammed.

It has waaaaay too little cargo space...

And because of that, we're not doing any more research anymore. Idk how to fix sooo

[umbral meteor]

quality grind cargo bay

😁

Normal -> 20 slots
Legendary -> 50 Slots

[rigid bramble]

Just drop all the cargo to the planet

[umbral meteor]

Gleba base defence, Rocket Turrets loaded with Nukes

😁

i am quite literally turret creeping Vulcanis right now xD

[rigid bramble]

You're going to end up nuking yourself

Imo gleba calls for a wide defence more than a deep one

[indigo gust]

It seems to me the idea is to focus on defense around the farms, as the pentapods doesn't care about regular pollution and so they will not bother attacking the base. But a wide defence encircling the entire spore cloud will essentially prevent raids from occurring at all - so that is what I went for as I had no idea how brutal those raids would be with the big ones

[indigo gust]

Flame turret I suppose? 🤔

I like how the handheld rocket launcher is smart enough to predict how many it takes to destroy the current target and automatically switches to the next target or holds fire, how is that with nuke turrets?

[rigid bramble]

Pentapods will still target artillery cannons that fire at them

Unless of course you alpha strike them

[umbral meteor]

Alpha strike you say?

Unsuspecting Victim getting close

[rigid bramble]

On a small?
Sounds cruel xD

[umbral meteor]

means to an end xD

time to piss off a big one xD

Big one gone

it were a bit too unlucky

came straight on the turret.....

one shot....

[rigid bramble]

Don't they do like 30k a shot?
Abd with insane penetration

All damage goes to its head remember

[umbral meteor]

hit from front, penetrates a BUNCH of segments, each getting the full damage.
so doesn't matter if it has 300k health with 100k regen when hit right it gets over 300k damage instantly

[rigid bramble]

You should try the handheld one

[umbral meteor]

i have xD

[umbral meteor]

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/circuit-connection-visualizer

[vivid jackal]

It was built before I started playing the server with only fulgora and gleba. I had to add vulcanus 8 hours ago to try to keep science going, but couldn't fix the cargo issue as I kept passing out in my chair.

[woeful geyser]

Fair.

Meanwhile I've gotten off Fulgora... which means it's time to go to the one place I dread.

[hearty meteor]

Wal-mart?

[woeful geyser]

I'm not an American. Besides aren't bot malls basically walmart

[hearty meteor]

Not being American would make Wal-mart worse, wouldn't it?

#peopleOfWalmart

[umbral meteor]

who needs bot mall, when you can have SPAAACE mall 😄

[vivid jackal]

Bot mall is indeed Walmart, the overworked and underpaid workers are eerily similar.

[umbral meteor]

Start on the main bus xD

with intermittant self powering heat/power generators

[vivid jackal]

@woeful geyser you can see who a platform belongs to using the tooltp on the platform hub.

[solid pollen]

ive got there.... but my brain si rejecting working on it all

[woeful geyser]

Gotta fix my throughput first tho because I nearly exhausted my 1 scrap patch

[solid pollen]

I really want to go back to Volcanus, I went there first and didnt set up bots... so i cant remote build shit there.... but ive already got to Gleba and i need to build rocket launcher first

[rigid bramble]

Not americans get ASDA instead of walmart xD

[solid pollen]

or tessco, morrisons, ALDI's....

[rigid bramble]

Asda iirc is or was owned by walmart

Anyway, lets all go to Gleba

Just as Aavak leaves

[vivid jackal]

I can't, I haven't even finished placing my first rocket silo, or set up production lines to build the rockets. Or even put any walls up.

Why did I rush rocket research again?

[rigid bramble]

Reject Nauvis, embrace Gleba

[hearty meteor]

Reject Gleba, embrace Brego

[umbral meteor]

embrace chaos, drink milk

[hearty meteor]

And eat cheese

[umbral meteor]

and then, make out with someone who is lactose intolerant xD

[solid pollen]

so that you could die in space to asteroids because you dont have level 5+ of bullet damage

[vivid jackal]

I'm probably gonna die on Nauvis cause I don't have enough automation or resources.

[solid pollen]

just remember there isnt any need to rush. play the game however you enjoy it

[vivid jackal]

Yeah, my problem since factorio first came out is that the biters always made me feel rushed. I always ended up so stressed I couldn't plan.

[indigo gust]

you have the option of peaceful mode - or if you prefer to have them, but not feel rushed time wise, you can alter the evolution settings - I did that for pyanodon, as that mod was at least at the time not very biter compatible. There if they evolved or expanded you could easily be in trouble as even basic ammo was far down the tech tree and realistically depended on lead, so I set time evolution off and only slight evolution due to pollution

[vivid jackal]

Oh yeah, there were a few a started with no biters attack until attacked. But that was years ago, kept getting frustrated tied up in the third tier of science, and didn't pick it up again till the day before SA came out.

[solid pollen]

yeah if you dont enjoy biters you can turn them off, or even just turn off their expansions so any cleared area stays cleared

you can also mess with pollution spread rate to give yourself more time

[vivid jackal]

I stopped playing back when you needed biters for combat science.

[solid pollen]

hot damn

thats a little bit ago 😛

[indigo gust]

the age of candy cotton

[solid pollen]

back when trains needed mods

[vivid jackal]

The way Aavak talks about things sometimes, I feel like we're withing 10 years of each other age wise.

God I hated trains back then.

You had to almost code the things, and I couldn't understand it.

[indigo gust]

and FARL (or Steejo)

well, looks line my non-nuclear deep space platform plan was impossible, so back to the drawing board on space platform design

[solid pollen]

trains are almost godlike in UX compared to back then

[indigo gust]

I remember mod for having overview of the trains and also using smarter trains mod to dispatch trains to specific stations

[rigid bramble]

Fully Automatic Rail Laying Steejo

[solid pollen]

FARL is just "I demand my train to be able to go everywhere my tank can go"

[vivid jackal]

Yeah, deep space is so far from the sun that solars barely do anything.

[vivid jackal]

I actually like laying the tracks down.

[solid pollen]

yeah you need nuclear

[rigid bramble]

Glow, everything must glow

[solid pollen]

my life for the green glow

peace through power

[vivid jackal]

Firestorm ready for takeoff

[vivid jackal]

I can never remember which unit says that.

[solid pollen]

isnt it the unalive bombers?

[rigid bramble]

I think its the Nuke general himself

[solid pollen]

ohhhh, i was thinking Tiberium, not generals

you right though, the chinese nuke general

[vivid jackal]

Ah

[rigid bramble]

Behold, the bringer of light

Yeah you can sneak your way to aquillo on solar, but I don't think you can get back

[solid pollen]

im planning to make an umbrella shaped ship to get to acquila for the resource income and SLOW speed

[vivid jackal]

It's really hard. My former platform could last in orbit on just solar, but going to and from needed nuclear.

[indigo gust]

I was hoping to use acid neutralisation to make power from sulfur, but seems it needs atmosphere

[rigid bramble]

The only way you can get steam is from nuclear

[indigo gust]

yeah, my last option, was hoping to make it sustainable without any refuling from ground

[solid pollen]

yeah it doesnt. best you can do is add a centrefuge to recycle and koverax

[rigid bramble]

I think you need to embrace interplanetry logistics

Reprocessing nuclear fuel is never going to be a positive

[solid pollen]

nah it wont

[indigo gust]

main focus was doing as much production in space as possible, and oil is not very efficient without steam

[solid pollen]

other than white science what production are you trying to do in space?

[indigo gust]

green and red is no problem, blue and yellow needs oil products

[rigid bramble]

Do it all, hot drop it on Gleba

[woeful geyser]

Imagine FARL with the elevated rails...

[solid pollen]

that would be hilarious

and SO troll

[woeful geyser]

I want it.

[solid pollen]

same.

that would be fucking expensive though

[rigid bramble]

I think you would have tweak the support placement

Though as I understand it, FARL works on bluprints

[solid pollen]

two player FARL elevated rail race.

[vivid jackal]

Just don't invite Wanderbots or he might delete it from beneath you.

[vivid jackal]

Where do you think Aavak should go after Gleba?

[indigo gust]

Vulcanus is harder enemy wise at least, so it makes sense for chat to demand that, right?

[vivid jackal]

True, but if you ||don't build in their territory, then they leave you alone.|| I vote for fulgora to see ||how he deals with the scrap and recycling issue. He does love circuits after all.||

[atomic aurora]

I found vulcanus really fun and relatively easy, so my vote would also be fulgora xD

[woeful geyser]

Vulcanus from my opinion is by far the easiest planet

[atomic aurora]

Vulcanus has exactly two difficult aspects: ||demolishers|| and ||an overabundance of stone||
The first is pretty self-explanatory, and the second you're basically told outright how to deal with

Beyond that, its smooth sailing

[solid pollen]

I went to Volcanus first and was over scared to deal with issue one || Demolishers|| when in actual fact my || military research and uranium cannon shells meant I killed a demolisher in 2-3 hits || so its more bark than bite of a problem

side note, if i recycle a quality thing, will its reduced products also be the same quality?

[rigid bramble]

Go Vulcanus without yellow or purple tech and you need a 4 deep turret wall

[woeful geyser]

Yes. This is the secret to achieving legendary quality stuff.

[solid pollen]

ah good, so not bothering with quality until conquering Fulgora was the correct choice

[woeful geyser]

Quality is actually kind of mandatory on Fulgora because good luck fitting enough accumulators otherwise.

[solid pollen]

really? I have a really large space on an island that ive not even half used

[woeful geyser]

I had to upgrade to uncommons because I kept having rolling blackouts.

[solid pollen]

with 5 advanced power towers of accumulators

I literally only use lightning power for the memes

[woeful geyser]

Ngl I'm fairly sure that's actually the correct choice until you get Gleba tech.

[solid pollen]

so basically. im a genius who accidentally made all the correct choices

nice

[woeful geyser]

How else are you gonna power your base. Molten ice and steam power from solid fuel? XD

[solid pollen]

i mean yeah, use storage tanks to hold the excess water, convert it into steam and only use it when accumulators reach <10%

[rigid bramble]

You just need more accumulators

[solid pollen]

bonus points if you use those boiling towers from gleba with the solid fuel

[woeful geyser]

Then you can do Walmart Nuclear.

[solid pollen]

walmart nuclear without the nuclear

[woeful geyser]

That would be a war crime I'm pretty sure.

[solid pollen]

I mean thats what boiling towers do, skip the need for uranium

[rigid bramble]

Warming up a nuclear reactor with a cooling tower is silly

[woeful geyser]

... wait is that a thing.

[solid pollen]

skip the reactor at all, use the warming tower to produce heat to make 500C water for steam engines

[woeful geyser]

Just burn other shit to warm up a nuclear reactor and then feed in nuclear.

[solid pollen]

turbines*

[woeful geyser]

No no. I did not mistype.

[rigid bramble]

Well the heat transmits between buildings with heat pipes

[solid pollen]

but i did? and was too lazy to use edit

[woeful geyser]

A

[solid pollen]

B

[woeful geyser]

Btw @rigid bramble you'll be happy to hear I've left Fulgora.

[rigid bramble]

That doesn't mean you went Gleba though xD

[woeful geyser]

I need to like fix Fulgora first. I just wanted to get out of there lol.

Also I've realized my ships are essentially snowpiercer. If they sit still for too long they will clog LOL

Which is uhh... slightly problematic. I had to flush my thruster fuel several times whilst I was stuck on Fulgora because I wanted a ship in orbit at all times just to make sure I had a ship in case Nauvis died.

Btw @solid pollen just saying: You can set up machines to craft items of qualities you can't make yet. I suggest doing that just so you don't have to bother later on.

I both am and am not looking forwards to Gleba. I am because I feel my spaghet brain will manage it just fine. I'm not because... pentapods.

[solid pollen]

How do your ships clog? just have them throw shit into space if they start filling up?

or use basic circuit conditions to set filters on the collectors

its so simple an idiot can figure it out (im the idiot)

[woeful geyser]

I stole the design and it didn't come with that in mind... I already had to tweak it from the original to improve it. The main problem right now is that it will prioritize carbon over iron.

[solid pollen]

ahhh this is why you dont steal designs

I can give you mine if you want? it works up to gleeb but wont work for acquillo

[woeful geyser]

I just need to tweak it to try and make iron over carbon.

Because then it'll work fine. I don't mind if it clogs on iron because iron has a constant demand.

[solid pollen]

or you could just not clog on anything at all

[woeful geyser]

Speaking of clogging... why the hell are we collecting iron ore on Fulgora instead of just grinding it into nothingness 😂

[solid pollen]

you collect iron ore on fulgora?

HOW? WHY?

[woeful geyser]

Grinding Concrete has a small chance to give iron ore.

[solid pollen]

so just continue grinding it away

[woeful geyser]

Yeah well the community server has a chest that's now full of iron ore...

[solid pollen]

XD

classic

[woeful geyser]

Might be worth shoving a satellite up there to yeet down a tiny bit of calcite to cast that.

And then combine it with the stupid amount of cable you get to make more green circuits...

[solid pollen]

OR... OR. grind that shit down

i just use the cable to get more copper

[woeful geyser]

That's also an option however.

[solid pollen]

and remember to dump excess plastic

[woeful geyser]

I like the notion of using satellites like that.

Like on Vulcanus? I don't make any carbon.

[solid pollen]

it just seems like a lot of effort for a non-existant gain, because Hol(d) m(y)ium will always be the bottleneck

[woeful geyser]

For me my bottleneck up until recently was the abysmal grinding speed of concrete...

Couldn't get rid of that shit fast enough lmao

[solid pollen]

just sounds like you need more grinders

my problem is somehow two grinders feeding into each other both have plastic in the grind slot but iron in the first slot and so they got jammed.

[woeful geyser]

Ah, you're grinding LDS?

[solid pollen]

yeah

[woeful geyser]

I am only panic grinding that.

[solid pollen]

i just grind the excess after filling a red chest to full

[woeful geyser]

My main method of getting plastic is actually red circuits because I also need greens.

[solid pollen]

same

im just getting rid of waste LDS, since I dont need to send it off world

[woeful geyser]

... and copper plate. Which you just get from the wires... wait aren't we spoiling shit again

[solid pollen]

I think we are talking enough trash that nobody is gonna bother reading through this conversation

[woeful geyser]

Fair XD

But speaking of Aquilo I am very excited to have a go at it. Because it just screams spaghet.

And oh boy if I don't love me some spaghet. I might have some Italian heritage somewhere...