Factorio

[solid pollen]

"his people"?

[pliant crystal]

While working on copper, I saw the last moments of the Yamako farm on Gleba ;_; Two stompers were having a rave.

Nothing I could do from Nauvis. RIP.

[rigid bramble]

is that like the next evolution of crab rave? xD

[woeful geyser]

Absolutely does. It's hard to explain but you can make generic schedules using those and interrupts.

[pliant crystal]

Almost finished with the copper mine, defences, and logistics.

[hearty meteor]

I found this and thought it appropriate here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE8KMnGm2Xw

[pliant crystal]

Copper mine set up. using green channel on radars to communicate to train logistics, please don't clutter that channel with signals unless you know how it'll influence the train network.

not doing anything fancy with the unloading, just pumping it onto 1 belt, and giving the current tiny mine priority, so it empties out, then we can switch the unloading to two or more belts

Room for someone to set up a resupply train for outpost defenses, walls, guns, ammo and the like, have left the second station at the copper outpost for this purpose.

[hearty meteor]

Oh no, bidirectional trains

[pliant crystal]

Not much room to work with in the existing base boundaries, so it was the best option.

Kept the trains to a length of 5, so the pulling power of a single engine would not be diminished; 131 has the same force, in either direction as a 14

[rigid bramble]

I always like 2-4, get them up to speed faster
or a 1-1-1 if I want to go point to point with a double header bullet train

yes I have a bi-directional train on my one way system xD

[rigid bramble]

Mistakes were made

[indigo gust]

ouch - yeah, I've learned to never put an inserter down out from the hub - always put it sideways, set the filters, then rotate

note that right clicking an item laying on the platform to "pick it up" deletes it, so even if you have the less catastrophic case of the inserter dropping it on the platform you may still end up deleting a high value item

[woeful geyser]

That seems to be a thing for items: Not buildings.

[quasi ocean]

No worries, it's the 20th time in the last like 4 hours of the server

I'm in open war with the stompers

[woeful geyser]

As I've had 6 rare assemblers drop on platform and picked them up just fine.

Also best menu secret: (CW - Spooders).

[rigid bramble]

oh Steejo spoilt that, cus he was waiting on Arumba to set up the server

[woeful geyser]

My base now only runs on 1 blue iron/copper belt. And a pipe of molten iron/copper.

But... time to start gathering stuff for Fulgora methinks.

[rigid bramble]

you not gone there yet?

[woeful geyser]

Nope. Been procrastinating on stuff and figured I should at least do some of the 'main' upgrades to keep my base running longer before going, which meant replacing all mines with big drill+foundry combos

Which then meant replacing my entire smelting setup. Which then made me want to take advantage of that with my new recipes.

[rigid bramble]

I would say, mining platform, but then you haven't been Gleba yet xD

[woeful geyser]

I have my suspicions of what Gleba will let me do.

[rigid bramble]

I am really contemplating a fabricator ship, that I can have in orbit just making essentials

or even flying round each planet dropping off anything that is needed there

[woeful geyser]

I imagine it's viable. But at the same time you could just make it on Nauvis.

[rigid bramble]

but why not make it, as you're flying around
also don't forget the cost of a rocket launch for say 100 red belt, when you can just make it in the sky

I just like the idea of a self repairing ship, like in general sci fi - something that makes the parts it needs to build itself

pretty sure most Mechanicus ships have a deck that is dedicated to capturing and processing space rocks

#spoilers plastic is just the awkward one to do in space

he says with 3k plastic up there, oops

[woeful geyser]

But possible

[rigid bramble]

just need some coal, naturally

[umbral meteor]

Bentham is at war with the Stompers, Aavak is running around trying to stem the fires of hell (the biters), and Future Planet is just "Relaxing" among the lightning xD

[woeful geyser]

I'd jump on to conquer Vulcanus. But I've done that already...

[rigid bramble]

imo Vulcanus was kinda boring

[umbral meteor]

i did learn something by watching Bentham's "i played SA for 350h" video,, One Shot, One Kill,
but also, i need a bigger gun xD

[rigid bramble]

does it involve something green?

[umbral meteor]

i have no idea xD

[rigid bramble]

meanwhile, my science set up needs some more work

[woeful geyser]

Is it me or is this formula written weirdly... why not just change it to 100000 + 180 explosion unless it's meant to be 1000 x (100+180)

[rigid bramble]

what is that for?

[woeful geyser]

'something green'

[umbral meteor]

i HAVE something green available, what i need it an even bigger gun xD

[rigid bramble]

I was thinking of two other somethings that are green xD

the 180 is probably your bonus damage, cus mine is 30

[lofty marsh]

i know how to use them in trains, and after scouring the forums i found a developer confirming it does nothing when in the stop itself. putting it in the name of a stop in an interrupt does what is expected.

[solid pollen]

it cant be 1000(100+180) because of BODMAS!

[plush ginkgo]

whats the O in bodmas?

[rigid bramble]

I think the 1000 is a flat damage multiplier

powers Of

[plush ginkgo]

ah k..

well i only learned "Punkt vor Strich" which means "dot before dash"... and that brackets are always the absolute truth

(dot before dash because multiplication is more important than addition, division is kinda aligned with multiplication, subtraction is just adding a negative number)

[rigid bramble]

there is BIDMAS too, which has Indicies instead

[lofty marsh]

the way i see it it is groupings are to be taken as 1 unit and other than that higher order operations take priority over lower ones. this generalises to work with tetration and above too.

[rigid bramble]

this is cus it has 1000 attacks at 100+180 damage

you have to remember AoE in games isn't quite how you would expect

easier to send out 1000 traces and damage what it touches than work out an actul expanding wave

[woeful geyser]

ok but then it's written wrong.

[plush ginkgo]

hmm havnt played AoE in a long time

[rigid bramble]

it fires 1000 shots in a 360 spread

[woeful geyser]

Then it should be 1000 x (100+180)

[rigid bramble]

each shot does 100+180

[woeful geyser]

Yes, but that's not what it says right now.

[lofty marsh]

the grouping is indeed missing

[rigid bramble]

its the same as the shotgun though

[woeful geyser]

Then it is also miswritten over there.

[lofty marsh]

but knowing what the +number is you can intuit the group

[rigid bramble]

it does 280 a thousand times, not 280,000 once

[lofty marsh]

it is actually rather common to omit the parenthesis in games

[woeful geyser]

Yeah but if you follow the math it claims it's doing 1000180 damage.

[plush ginkgo]

just imagine you have an old calculator that doesnt use reverse polish notation

[rigid bramble]

like I say AoE damage calculation in games usually uses traces to see what gets hit

[plush ginkgo]

depends. sometimes it is easier to just use a search in a circle and apply the damage

using traces is better for projectiles. AoE is easier with circle intersection

[rigid bramble]

but its not an actual explosion, its just a 360 degree shot xD

[plush ginkgo]

then its not AoE damage but a spread of shots.

[rigid bramble]

smoke and mirrors

[plush ginkgo]

because it technically does not have an Area

[lofty marsh]

its not a math error. it just isnt using math notation. multishots are often written as either shots * damage per shot or damage per shot * shots. shots is often omitted when it is 1. damage per shot is of course base damage + bonus damage

[rigid bramble]

maybe UE5 could do a proper physics simulation, but you typically don't need to be so complex just to tell the game that the character is stood too close to a grenade

[woeful geyser]

Well that's just rude.

[plush ginkgo]

no not smoke and mirrors... imagine you were to implement AoE damage. you would not cast infinitely many rays into each direction and check for intersections. that would be inefficient and prone to floating point errors.
you would use a quad tree as spatial accelleration structure, ask for a point in the structure, let it return everything in range, calculate the distances of everything in range, scaled by the maximum distance and apply that factor to the damage taken by the object to simulate damage dropoff.

that is so much more efficient than casting rays

no physics simulations here

[rigid bramble]

I guess it depends if you're making CoD or Arma

[plush ginkgo]

if you make arma, you would add a certain amount of shapnel, but not too much. the AoE calculation i mentioned would also apply for the physical shockwave

but in general you just return everything in range of the AoE and calculate the damage based on distance to the center

(because when you have the object thats being damaged, you can easily calculate the distance from the center of the explosion)

[pliant crystal]

Literally watching Bentham slowly lose his sanity as each clone activation erodes a little more of his mind. The Stompers may be dying by the dozens, but so are Bentham's braincells. And unlike the Stompers, Bentham has a finite amount of those... -_-

[rigid bramble]

and yet factorio does the shot approach as evidenced by the provided date

[woeful geyser]

To SPAAAAACE once more!

[pliant crystal]

He has probably spent the entirety of Nauvis' productive effort for the last few hours, on building and replacing gun turrets only to lose them all to each wave of stompers XD

[rigid bramble]

and here I am chatting while my Nauvis science fills up with spoilage

[lofty marsh]

from the wiki

Instead of dealing all of its damage in a single explosion, the atomic bomb creates two waves of 1000 small, high-damage explosions in an expanding ring. One wave of explosions expands to a radius of 7 with each of the 1000 explosions dealing 100 damage in a radius of 3. The second wave of explosions expands to cover a radius of 35 and each of the 1000 explosions deals 400 damage in a radius of 3. This results in high damage at the center of the atomic bomb, decreasing to lower damage at the edge of the 35 tile radius.

[woeful geyser]

... I FORGOT TO BRING A LANDING PAD.

DAMN IT

[pliant crystal]

lmao

[rigid bramble]

ah, and I told Zangiry I didn't need an 8th belt...

[plush ginkgo]

yes. because the atomic bomb does not technically cause an explosion, it causes shockwaves to spawn, which are then causing explosion damage. so the atomic bomb is technically not an explosive

or rather, its more of a cluster grenade

[rigid bramble]

its a 360 degree double barrel shotgun

[lofty marsh]

thats what i was getting at

[woeful geyser]

Note to self make a group for 'new planet landing essentials'

[indigo gust]

Just catch the drop pods in your hands (or on your head)

[rigid bramble]

Do not catch the landing pod with your face 😮

[plush ginkgo]

and it doesnt contradict my statements either so we are all happy

[indigo gust]

It's fine - if you remembered to bring a couple of energy shields that is...

[rigid bramble]

I think Aavak did, and it still didn't work

[umbral meteor]

Yes, yes you did xD

[woeful geyser]

At least my (or well, my and @plush ginkgo 's) ship can safely make the journey to Fulgora. I did slap on some rare panels/accumulators...

I should bring quality modules.

[plush ginkgo]

Ship design 101: you can never have too many gun turrets

[rigid bramble]

Ah the bots can get jobs to do xD

[woeful geyser]

I was more concerned about power tbh.

[plush ginkgo]

i usually have nuclear reactors on my ships, just this one doesnt have one for space efficiency <-<

[rigid bramble]

just bolt more solar panels on the sides

[woeful geyser]

I am only using 1 blue belt of iron/copper for my base. But I also use a pipe.

[rigid bramble]

those sticking out panels never get got, mostly anyway

[lofty marsh]

seems to be 1000x(100aoe) but that i assume is just to create the shockwave visual in a simple way. if it was only to get the damage a single aoe would do where each affected entity applies the damage after a delay based on distance. its a creative solution to make it fit with existing code.

[woeful geyser]

I'm planning to transition to nuclear ships eventually... I could easily do it right now but lazy.

[solid pollen]

can someone explain why 3 out of four of my asteroid collectors are working?

[rigid bramble]

eigth belt of science Roadtrain xD

[solid pollen]

red computing navigation?

[rigid bramble]

to remove the spoilage

[woeful geyser]

Bug. Rebuild them.

[plush ginkgo]

yes. its also the reason why atomic bombs sometimes cause lag. because it literally spawns sub explosives

[rigid bramble]

they only cause lag if you adjust the firing time to be 1000 a second

[plush ginkgo]

they dont cause lag for me, my computer is too good for lag

[lofty marsh]

that depends on hardware

[plush ginkgo]

if you run factorio on a Raspberry Pi 2 you would probably get lag from a nuclear explosion

[rigid bramble]

well turn the refire time down to 0.00001s then fire off an inventory full, and get back to me xD

[plush ginkgo]

i dont want to do that but it would probably not be too bad

[lofty marsh]

you increased fire rate by 100x there

[solid pollen]

nevermind figured it out, isnt a bug, asteroid collectors only activate based on space station size

[lofty marsh]

i assume 1 per tick is a limit

[solid pollen]

increased size and it started working

this looks fine for science right?

[rigid bramble]

the delay is probably there to stop you turning it into a powerpoint presentation

[plush ginkgo]

yes should be good

[solid pollen]

thanks 😄

just needed a sanity check

[plush ginkgo]

if its not enough you can easily scale it up :D

[leaden mauve]

The WHAT?!

There's a search feature on the map?

[plush ginkgo]

the search feature

[rigid bramble]

I just wish it had an option to show things in chests

like actual Factory Search mod does xD

[plush ginkgo]

yeah im debating weather i should add that mod to my server again because its just so convenient

[solid pollen]

yeah I was honestly just trying to figure out circuit stuff

[rigid bramble]

I'm just happy Bobs inserters is ready for 2.0

[plush ginkgo]

yeah already have bobs inserters on my server because my cousin likes using it

[rigid bramble]

I'm all for puzzles, but can I just have the inserter go 90 degress

[plush ginkgo]

i usually try out my circuits and when they dont work i just refactor them until they do

[plush ginkgo]

or when you made a factory and notice too late that some inserters insert to the wrong lane

[solid pollen]

yeah thats what i did, i brought up all the different circuit machines and tested them until i found the one that worked KEKW

[plush ginkgo]

Senior Devs just test in production

[pliant crystal]

Welp... that was ... something.

Just witnessed armageddon on Gleba.

[woeful geyser]

I'm so happy I am not over there.

😄

[rigid bramble]

did Bentham nuke the Stomper Rave?

[pliant crystal]

Other way around ):

[woeful geyser]

Ugh... gotta make refined concrete again...

[pliant crystal]

2 Medium stompers made their way into his main base (not sure why) while he was remote building a platform... and proceeded to stomp it out of existence.

[rigid bramble]

I've had a medium stomper wreck my shit once, never again

I guess something shot them, or they wanted the fruits on the other side of the base

[pliant crystal]

Meanwhile on nauvis, Bullet Train II is online and keeping the copper mining outpost supplied.

[rigid bramble]

I like how I still have the remnants of my stompening

[umbral meteor]

i think Discord just had a stroke

interface went black, and just a message...

"Did you Know?
BooOoOoOoOooO"

[woeful geyser]

Note to self add refined concrete to list of things to bring to other planets.

[rigid bramble]

I need to stop pissing about and actually make this science more than a series of assemblers

isn't refined concrete easy on at least two of the planets?

[umbral meteor]

i dumped 10k blue chips on Vulcan, rocket launches were to slow xD

[rigid bramble]

though I should probably forge LDS, and electrolyse blue circuits

[woeful geyser]

Forging LDS is such a no brainer. It is so insanely efficient.

[rigid bramble]

but when I already have a bus with copper steel and plastic

[woeful geyser]

Are you casting?

[umbral meteor]

and on top of that you have the efficiency +++ tech for it as well

[rigid bramble]

0.4/s but I need 0.45/s xD

[woeful geyser]

Pls tell me you're not still smelting iron/copper/steel XD

[umbral meteor]

yes

[rigid bramble]

I'm not going to redo my entire Nauvis base

[umbral meteor]

^ yet

(me)

[woeful geyser]

You don't have to.

[rigid bramble]

yes, because its fine how it is :p

[woeful geyser]

Oh right I forgot you're a masochist.

[rigid bramble]

what does that have to do with not fixing what isn't broken?

[umbral meteor]

YES! Klonan updated KS Power to 2.0, i'm not using it now.
BUT, Diesel generators 😄

the perfect fit for the oil planet _:D

[rigid bramble]

if i was to introduce casting I would need belts for gears, and copper wire

[woeful geyser]

You don't have to cast everything.

Also did you consider running a pipe of molten iron/copper down instead of bussing all the products?

[rigid bramble]

whats the point of not casting everything

[woeful geyser]

Casting plates gives you 50% already and is easy to do.

[rigid bramble]

and you don't want more copper cable and gears?

[umbral meteor]

direct insertion when needed 😉

[woeful geyser]

I cast wire.

[umbral meteor]

^

[woeful geyser]

And direct insert it for green, and put it on a belt near red circuits.

[umbral meteor]

same, but bots xD

[rigid bramble]

also if thats how you want to main base, thats cool
but its not how I want to xD

[umbral meteor]

main is mainly belts

[rigid bramble]

masochism has nothing to do with anything

[umbral meteor]

well i need a nap, see you tomorrow xD

[plush ginkgo]

have sweet dreams

[umbral meteor]

it's 4 pm but i'm exhausted.

[rigid bramble]

oh no, green to red to blue circuits isn't a pretty ratio

[woeful geyser]

Fulgora's fun.

I can already tell LDS is going to be a pain here tho.

[rigid bramble]

red to blue is a nice 4 to 5, but then greens are like I can do 18/s or 24/s

[woeful geyser]

Luckily I can quite literally just ship that from Vulcanus where LDS is plentiful. Ish.

[rigid bramble]

but you literally dig it up from the ground...

[woeful geyser]

The plastic is the main issue.

[plush ginkgo]

i want the abbreviation of Low Density Structures to be LSD instead of LDS just because.

[woeful geyser]

Isn't that a drug...

[plush ginkgo]

technically its an acid but yes it is

[woeful geyser]

😛

[rigid bramble]

in fact, I may be having an issue with LDSes

[woeful geyser]

The fact it needs plastic is pure pain.

[plush ginkgo]

why? plastic is nice

its quite easy to produce on nauvis or fulgora

[woeful geyser]

It's annoying to make on 2/3 planets where it's not the focus.

[rigid bramble]

I feel Roadtrain has more to discover

[woeful geyser]

I probably do lol.

[rigid bramble]

so whats it people say, hold thine judgement?

[plush ginkgo]

on vulcanus you probably need to use coal liquification if i remember right... on gleba... nothing is nice on gleba. gleba is hell

[rigid bramble]

I need to not be looking at Fulgora right now

[plush ginkgo]

gleba is the gift that keeps on taking

[woeful geyser]

Yeah, you need coal liquefication on Vulcanus.

[rigid bramble]

just the acid neutralisation

uhm, simple coal liquefaction

[woeful geyser]

Yeah you do that until you get normal coal liquefication at which point you instantly ditch it.

[plush ginkgo]

i really like fluids <-<

[vivid jackal]

Why do simple when complicated factorio is so much more fun?

[woeful geyser]

Because normal coal liquefication is just better IMO

[rigid bramble]

I made something that works, and I wanted to go onto the new stuff that is not balance mixed oils

[vivid jackal]

That's why not playing it for so many years is nice. Everything feels new.

[woeful geyser]

You see that's one thing I like about Fulgora: Infinite heavy oil!

I don't need to do anything!

Just gotta crack it a lil' and voila. I has light oil > rocket fuel.

[plush ginkgo]

this is why when i have enough time i will start playing pyanodons again

[rigid bramble]

but the water

[hearty meteor]

Just turn some oil to water, right?

[woeful geyser]

Not quite.

[rigid bramble]

ice ice baby

[vivid jackal]

You can get ice from ||recycling||, and ||space station.||

[woeful geyser]

I'm really sad that mechanic isn't used more. Not that I'm not gonna use it.

But you get stupid amounts of ice from recycling

[rigid bramble]

and solid fuel, and steel

[woeful geyser]

And gears oh my god so many GEARS.

[rigid bramble]

also where are my modules...
ROBOTS, ATTEND ME

[feral loom]

Is this the place to ask about to factorio community server?

[woeful geyser]

#1167527626743758858 message

[hearty meteor]

I kinda wanna go "No, this is the place to ask about the Eco community server"

[vivid jackal]

With that much extra, might be worth shipping the unrecycled material back to nauvis before recycling.

[rigid bramble]

||but you need the gears to make iron plate||

oops that might be a spoiler 😮

[vivid jackal]

I meant when your finished with fulgora. That and maybe shipping the oil back too.

[hearty meteor]

Shipping oil?

Are you America?

[plush ginkgo]

dont tell americans that fulgora has seas of heavy oil... they will pump the planet dry

[hearty meteor]

Wouldn't that be nice, so you have more area to build on?

[plush ginkgo]

who needs area to build on when you can just swim in oil

[rigid bramble]

imo, it might be better to ship a finished product around

[woeful geyser]

Ah... I see now.

[rigid bramble]

are you drowning in steel beams yet?

[woeful geyser]

No, but I've figured out the plastic issue

[rigid bramble]

that 1% isn't as low as you think (and yet it is)

[woeful geyser]

Oh. Yeah that's another way to make it.

[rigid bramble]

oh sorry, I thought that was your realisation

[woeful geyser]

Nah I used red circuits.

Far more efficient to break down as it gives you all the stuff you need for the 2 new items you need.

[rigid bramble]

you might as well save it for that then, and just use the LDS you dig up for rockets

also I have reduced the number of buildings needed for science down to just under 20%

[woeful geyser]

I myself am working out just how to ratio everything...

Actually that's a problem for future me

[rigid bramble]

just get the goods, then set up science, then yet yourself to Gleba

[vivid jackal]

If you plug circuits into a train stop, does it affect only that train stop, or every stop and or train connected to that rail line?

I have so little time to play these days, but it has infested my brain.

[hearty meteor]

AFAIK only that train stop. If you have "send to train" only the train at that stop will get those circuit signals too

[rigid bramble]

well uhh, this is awkward

[vivid jackal]

Did it get destroyed, or just haven't finished building?

[rigid bramble]

I can't replace it cus I don't have the parts >.<

and I'm rather far from somewhere that has them

also, something else you can do with blocking off one side of a splitter

[vivid jackal]

The worst part of it is that the belt system got interrupted so it throws the whole thing out of whack.

What planet did you go to?

[rigid bramble]

I was travelling between Fulgora to Gleba to solve my 'issue' when I seem to have ploughed through a bunch of asteroids

then had to creep home to nauvis to repair

[vivid jackal]

Oh, is that on the community server?

[rigid bramble]

no, I'm still on my own game

no belt heresies on the community server

but you can help with that

[vivid jackal]

There are no heresies, everything I do is law.

[rigid bramble]

ahem

[vivid jackal]

Just curious, is there a reason that Factorio does the mp joining like it does instead of the way others do?

[rigid bramble]

How do you mean?

[vivid jackal]

Usually you can choose amongst a list of your friends, or look up the friend hosting.

[rigid bramble]

I guess it doesn't have steam integration, though I'm sure I've joined a friend through steam before now

[vivid jackal]

Bentham is getting murdered on Gleba again.

[hearty meteor]

Damn, that's a clean solution to switching the side of things. Takes up at least 1 less space than the other solutions I can think of

[umbral meteor]

it does, but as this is a standalone dedicated server and not hosted by your friend, it won't show up.
also it is set to private not public

[rigid bramble]

ah nice tidy Yellow and Purple science

[vivid jackal]

Em is up and running. Next task is nuclear, have to adult so I can't help clear it.

[pliant crystal]

Hopping on to check the server, make sure the base isn't on fire, before doing some Abiotic Factor.

[umbral meteor]

making some improved radars

[vivid jackal]

Did they get the uranium claimed yet?

[quasi ocean]

No

It's holding us back so much

I'm amazed we've got so far with only steam and solar on nauvis

Once we have nuclear I can get us spidertrons pretty quick

[vivid jackal]

I tried, but was running through cannon rounds faster then they were being produced. And there was no flamer ammo being made.

[quasi ocean]

Well I just took the draconian 2 stack cap off the cannon shell storage so we can actually build up the stocks for larger operations

Once we have nuclear it'll revolutionise Nauvis power, suit capability and research

[vivid jackal]

If you get a chance, the oil production to the east has no resupply of turret ammo.

It's entirely flamethrower turrets right now.

[quasi ocean]

Also just cause I can, i'm queueing up captivity tech and at some point i'll deliver a shipment of capture bot rockets to Nauvis so the Fun can begin

[vivid jackal]

Is the bot network automated for bot resupply?

[woeful geyser]

I got to space without solar/nuclear...

[quasi ocean]

Sure, same, but we're waaaay into the game and down the tech tree now and still running mainly off a mercifully large coal patch inside the walls

[vivid jackal]

I've gotten almost to space on only steam.

[quasi ocean]

Yeah I set that up

[woeful geyser]

I'm amazed the ||mech suit|| isn't Aquilo tech tbh.

[vivid jackal]

The biter expansion is so fast we need multiple people dedicated to pushing them back to expand the walls.

Cleared out a good chunk to the west first, then started making my way south and east. By the time I hit the east there was a new base in the middle of the west again.

[quasi ocean]

What we really need is artillery

But nobody's been to Vulcanus yet

I have half a mind to rocket over there myself and try and speedrun it so I can finally get cliff explosives

But I dare not leave Gleba because without me the stompers will wear the base down

This is what it takes to defend my farms

[woeful geyser]

I could probably quite easily go and beat Vulcanus provided we have access to uranium shells.

[quasi ocean]

lolnope

We got tesla turrets tho

demolishers are only like 10% resistant to them and the lightning hits 10 segments at once

[woeful geyser]

Yeahhh I don't know how else to kill worms lol

[quasi ocean]

Nah electric damage is actually pretty good

telsa turrets, destroyers, discharge defense, they all work decently well

[indigo gust]

Does the tesla chain down the segments of the demolisher? I just knocked out my two first with tank and poison capsules, tank barely survived

[quasi ocean]

Yes it does

[rigid bramble]

I had a 4 deep wall of turrets set to alpha strike xD

[vivid jackal]

I would offer to go since it sounds like the worms are pretty quiet if you don't invsde their space, but with how high they have enemy saturation on this server.......

[rigid bramble]

my anti-demolisher wall

[vivid jackal]

Probably take one step from the landing spot and trigger 3 of them.

[umbral meteor]

Worms are completely passive unless you build IN or very close to their borders

[indigo gust]

They are clarely marked on the map

[rigid bramble]

it has to be actually in

[umbral meteor]

No

[rigid bramble]

but build one tile in, and they will beeline to it

[vivid jackal]

Does it mark their territory, or just guessing?

[umbral meteor]

i had worm eat part of my solar array, which were NOT in their territory

[rigid bramble]

that hazard concrete on my defence line is the border

[quasi ocean]

Yeah worms are less a type of enemy and more a terrain feature

they're likely completely unaffected by the map settings

[umbral meteor]

Worms are not affected by Evolution rate either

only two places are, Gleba and Nauvis

[indigo gust]

Bigger ones are further out I guess?

[vivid jackal]

Does the tank come with a roboport, or do you need to install one?

[umbral meteor]

install

Personal Roboport <-

[rigid bramble]

danger closeee

[vivid jackal]

Yeah, I hop on the server today. And first thing I do is learn what not to send the Benthams platform.

Read the "only built on" line and thought it was "only created on".

[rigid bramble]

unless you had the bug where their territory wasn't capped on one side, it shouldn't venture into the safe area

but I built one wall section just in its territory and it was like nope, it has to go

[vivid jackal]

So you can walk through their territory without setting them off?

[umbral meteor]

yup

[woeful geyser]

Yeah.

Shooting them with big guns will annoy them though (they don't care about personal lasers)

[vivid jackal]

That's cause they're basically immune to lasers right?

[rigid bramble]

well, if you shoot them, they don't like it

but they were nice and didn't have it trigger because you didn't take your lasers off

[indigo gust]

100% resistance to lasers yes, (and fire and impact)

[vivid jackal]

Oh, so if it was hit by a laser turret it'd get mad, but wouldn't be hurt.

[rigid bramble]

lasers wouldn't faze it cus they wouldn't do any damage

[umbral meteor]

they DO have lower resistanbce to physical, but i'm not going in there with my pick xD

[vivid jackal]

Imagine capture bots that are effective on the worms.

[umbral meteor]

Ride the worm!

[vivid jackal]

Lava Dune

[umbral meteor]

take a spawn with you to Gleba and let it lose on the stompers xD

[rigid bramble]

you see how many gun turrets I had above xD

at least physical is better than explosive

[vivid jackal]

Build a massive platform harvesting ice, the dump literal tons of ice on a worm and see what happens.

[indigo gust]

resistance listed in the factoriopedia is similar for physical and explosive (50% and 60%) - but that only applies to the head, the segments have 99% explosive resistance, so little benefit of the AoE of explosions I suppose

[rigid bramble]

I think for single target you wanna focus on the non-explosive rounds anyway

5/50% physical for the body

and 50% poison

[vivid jackal]

Is that like a range statistic of how much they could resist an attack?

[rigid bramble]

well with the 5/50% physical resistance
you get a flat -5 damage, then whatever is left is reduced by 50%

[quasi ocean]

Why

[rigid bramble]

crab rave

what are you doing to annoy them so much?

might be an idea to get a tank and go after the nests

also, seems if you sit still in a tank, the stompers have trouble actually doing significant damage

[vivid jackal]

Maybe you should just give up on Gleba for now.

Wait till some people can back you up.

[quasi ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/lord-beckett-potc-finally-jack-sparrow-gif-22525160

[vivid jackal]

With how bad biters are, I'm surprised anyone left without it.

[quasi ocean]

Oh lord, Nauvis went into a death spiral and i'm not sure if my remote efforts will be enough to pull it out of the dive

Okay I think we're okay

[vivid jackal]

What happened?

Don't tell me while trying to improve power, we overloaded the grid with lasers?

[hearty meteor]

I simply cannot fathom not putting security first XD

[quasi ocean]

Funnily enough the tipping point was the strain on the logistics network of supplying the materials to make reactor components

It was on that much of a knife edge

First little reactor is spooling up now

[vivid jackal]

Was there a specific item? Or too much bot transport?

[quasi ocean]

Bot transport, cause i'm doing all the work remotely

Shipping the VAST amounts of copper needed for all things nuclear almost killed Nauvis' grid outright 😆

[vivid jackal]

Yeah, hard to use bots to build when half the fleet is supplying manufacturing.

Nobody made a good bus to pull from

When expanding blue chip production i couldn't find a good way to redirect some belts and I didn't want to build too far from liquids.

[quasi ocean]

Reactor online.
aaaaand breathe...

[hearty meteor]

You could have the bots build belts XD

[vivid jackal]

Have you seen the main base? Some of the spaghett shouldn't even work.

[hearty meteor]

Sounds like a normal software development team

[vivid jackal]

So what would happen if Nauvis got wiped out?

[quasi ocean]

I'd have to ship in emergency supplies from Gleba

Okay, whoever designed the train that delivers copper, it ain't, and I have no idea how to make it

[vivid jackal]

Yeah, I noticed that.

[pliant crystal]

Will check in now.

At a guess, did someone start using the green channel on radars?

Fixed, issue was a lack of station in the interrupts.

Nuclear plant is... running down. Not sure what's up, didn't build it.

[vivid jackal]

Bentham slapped it together

Took 2 tanks to clear the biters enough to claim the uranium

Bentham also had to figure out why the copper train wasn't running.

[rigid bramble]

Did bentham circuit it up
Or just put fuel in it and run away?

unless you're talking about the turbines, they would work like steam engines and only produce power when needed

[indigo gust]

Does anyone know what happens to fluid in the machine when using automated recipe change? I seem to remember from playing space exploration that fluid was not lost when deconstructing pipes - at least if there was room to store it in a nearby pipe network. I've been running a single assembler minimal mini-mall with automated recipe change to make everything, but reluctant to do blue belts because of possible loss of lubricant...

[rigid bramble]

I would have thought anything in the machine gets deleted as normal

since fluid isn't an item, it can't be put in the trash slot

[indigo gust]

items are moved to the output, I'll have to "for science" it now - would have to make it with more hysteresis if I include blue belt stuff (and electric motors) to avoid considrable lube spillage

[rigid bramble]

you just have to turn it off when its crafting, so it only puts in the liquid you need

like you can read working or contents, or craft finished

[indigo gust]

it went back into the pipe

[rigid bramble]

eh, I'd still opine on only taking what you need xD

but at least factorio is a bit considerate for what extra materials it takes for items
except for centrifuges, reactors and rocket silos

someone was complaining on the stream that a turret wouldn't hawk all the ammo for itself

[indigo gust]

it is very difficult to only put what you need in when it comes to liquid

I think the amount is some sort of multiple of the recipe? so for the very expensive one it will load in a lot extra

[rigid bramble]

it'll take enough for an extra craft

so for a silo it'll absorb up to 2k concrete

and centrifuges stack to 50 D:

[indigo gust]

I think it takes more than for one extra craft for the smaller recipes?

[rigid bramble]

it doesn't take into account inserter capacity though

[indigo gust]

with 3 hand size inserter I see 9 iron plates in the green circuit assembler, yet one circuit only takes one plate, so should never be more than 4 if it only took until it had enough for one extra

[rigid bramble]

so it puts in 4 at a time?

[indigo gust]

puts in 3 with a hand size 1+2 I suppose, number of plates in the machine that I can see is 7, 8 and 9

[atomic aurora]

Iirc it takes enough for one extra craft, or enough to satisfy production for some period (don't know exactly how long, but probably a couple of seconds), whichever is highest.

And if an inserter can put in more than required to get the machine to that level, the inserter just becomes inactive until more is needed.

[indigo gust]

Upgrading my mini mall to foundry+assembler seems more of a challenge if doing casting of both iron and copper in the same foundry as the blue belts - I guess it may be possible if alternating one of the liquid inputs using pumps

[rigid bramble]

I'm doing silly things on Gleba

also I think I'm starting to dislike how bot heavy the rocket silo is

its like if you want to automate rocket launches, you have to use bots

[indigo gust]

isn't it possible to load from belts somehow? I guess you have to use an extra rocket silo to read the platform requests though?

and of course not possible to load blue, LDS and rocket fuel by insertsrs

It is a huge difference from the 500 slot Space Exploration silos

[atomic aurora]

Can you hook up wires to the rocket silo? If so you can absolutely use circuitry to automate it without bots

[rigid bramble]

it doesn't launch automatically unless you tell it to, and that point it will only load things that are requested

anything not requested gets trashed

[atomic aurora]

Far as I can tell, a rocket launches automatically if it's loaded with something that's being requested, and if the rocket is full

You do have to turn off automatic mode on the silo, obviously

[rigid bramble]

but it won't just launch a full cargo that isn't requested

[atomic aurora]

Obviously not, you do have to have requests on the platform in question

[rigid bramble]

far as I can tell, the only circuitry you can do is read contents and orbital requests

[atomic aurora]

That's plenty

[rigid bramble]

so you could load it with what is requested, but not launch

[atomic aurora]

It does launch if the contents are requested though, even if automatic mode is turned off

[indigo gust]

yeah, I have had that happen several times

[rigid bramble]

hmmmmm

[indigo gust]

fill it up and ready to click deliver only to hear the rumble from it launching already

but not sure how it will deal with cargo mixes that does not perfectly add up to a full rocket

[atomic aurora]

That I don't know either

[rigid bramble]

bots won't split load, you'll have to do that 'manually'

[indigo gust]

and it is a bit annoying to have to use a whole rocket silo just to read requests

[atomic aurora]

Or if the requests the platform sends down aren't full rockets worth of items

[rigid bramble]

yeah the not perfectly filling a rocket is probably why you might want to be able to send launch requests to a silo

though I think if you set the custom fill load you could sort that?

[atomic aurora]

Alternatively, you could just turn any requests into full rockets worth of items with circuitry, and it should work fine

[indigo gust]

workaround is to make the bots more like loading the silo by having a local logistic network and chests around the silo(s)

[rigid bramble]

also why don't requests default to the planet the platform is currently orbiting?

it tries to be smart and default requests of items to the planet they can be made on

[atomic aurora]

Well that's... an interesting choice

Requests are supposed to be inactive when not around the planet they are made to

[rigid bramble]

but say I want to request foundries from nauvis, the default import from will be Vulcanus

even if you're above Nauvis

[atomic aurora]

Why would you request foundries from a planet they can't be made on? They can only be made on vulcanus

That one does make sense

[rigid bramble]

and just then, trying to load up on blue circuits and LDS from Fulgora and its like you want to get these from Nauvis, right?

except I'm above Nauvis, and Nauvis has foundries stored on it

[atomic aurora]

Oh I see what you mean now, I thought you were saying that requests were sent to the planet they can be fulfilled on for the circuit network

[rigid bramble]

because I would like them on a space platform I'm building, but I'm not going to fly it to Vulcanus when I'm still building xD

[atomic aurora]

Sure you can load foundries from any planet, but loading them from anywhere but vulcanus would mean you're shipping them by rocket twice

So I see the sense of defaulting those to the planet they are exclusive to

[rigid bramble]

but blue circuits and LDS are not exclusive to Nauvis

[atomic aurora]

That one I don't know why it would be

[rigid bramble]

technically, I'm not 'making' them per se on Fulgora

[atomic aurora]

Technically, you are. It's a very short production chain, but you do have to process scrap to get them

[rigid bramble]

there is no assembler actually making them

if I search processing unit, it can't find it on fulgora

[atomic aurora]

So that's your definition of 'making something'? One dedicated machine making a single item?

[rigid bramble]

I would have said if something is 'made' like in an assembler, as opposed to just being mined out of the ground

you see with factory Search mod, it would show you things in storage, or held by a bot

[atomic aurora]

So i suppose by that definition, smelting iron ore into plates isn't 'making' the iron plates? Since you're only processing a single thing you mined out of the ground and all

[rigid bramble]

I'd say scrap recycling sits on a boundary

while an ore isn't made as you're digging it from the ground
a plate is made from an ore

you're not making the ore, just picking it out of the ground

[atomic aurora]

How is recycling scrap into a long list of items different from turning ore into plates, then?

[rigid bramble]

as I just said, it sits on a boundary

and from a lore stance, scrap is just a bundle of various items, so throwing it in a recycler is just sorting it out

[pliant crystal]

At a cursory glance in here, I'm left wondering what the point of this conversation is XD

It feels weirdly confrontational, and yet I can't see where the conflict lies lol

[atomic aurora]

I'm just arguing semantics and having fun with it. If it came across as annoying or stand-offish, I'm sorry and I'll stop

[rigid bramble]

I think its ok
you're just challenging my view

and I maybe suck at explaining myself as usual xD

[pliant crystal]

As long as there's no actual conflict brewing, have at it, just peeking in to make sure things are going okay is all ^^

[rigid bramble]

I think it might be just that SA still has that 'new car' smell and we're all still trying to explain how it smells

and I am maybe procrastinating, cus I've no idea how I want to set up my space platform

halp

[indigo gust]

There are no way of broadcasting signals between planets? Right? And platform hub can not read planet requests it seems. So only way to communicate between surfaces is through the actual items? For instance produce iron rods on the platform and if the planet eats them that is interpreted as a signal for something?

[rigid bramble]

That was my read on how you could send signals between planets

[indigo gust]

Was thinking of a way of not shipping items that are not currently in demand at the destination in order to have room for more of the other items, but since there is no way to automate the platform requests that may require some sort of platform full feedback to the surface to prevent clog up of the hub - in addition to propagating the signal of what to load from the destination. It gets complicated - maybe far easier to just add quite a bit extra storage and just ship everything back and forth all the time

[quasi ocean]

You sure? I set up circuit conditions to never let the temp drop below 600C

Only way it should be capable of being overwhelmed is if the entire grid is

[rigid bramble]

you did use the right operator, right?

[quasi ocean]

Just logged in, reactor looks fine to me

[rigid bramble]

are the turbines at full whack, or just idling

[quasi ocean]

I mean they're not full tilt, cause they don't need to be

[rigid bramble]

I just wonder if that was what was being seen, but who knows

I'm just puzzling over a bigger space platform, with rockets and nuclear

[rigid bramble]

and my Gleba is getting aggy

tank has been deployed

tank has lost its equipment grid

tank chan is hurting

[rigid bramble]

also speaking of turbines, they sound kinda creepy now, with that added whine to the spinning

[woeful geyser]

You can limit it now though with combinators

[rigid bramble]

or a wire :p

I typically have the inserters wired up to the chest it puts them in, so it doesn't take resources if there is more than 5 in the box

[woeful geyser]

Can you specify which wire they output on?

Because then there's an insanely elegant way to do it

Read ingredients on one wire, read contents on the other. Subtract contents from ingredients then hook it into an inserter with set filters

[rigid bramble]

I just have a wired maximum

[woeful geyser]

This way you'll never take more than 1 craft

[rigid bramble]

why not just turn the inserters off?

[woeful geyser]

I thought you didn't wanna stack ingredients

[rigid bramble]

my issue was with the 50 stack of built centrifuges, and the resources they would consume

so if I have 5 in a box, it doesn't grab more stuff to make more centrifuges

same with the reactor, so I only have 1 built at a time

but yes that is a fancy way of making sure it only fills with 1 stack of resources

[woeful geyser]

One suggestion: make sure to always limit to at least 1 stack in terms of rocket capacity

[rigid bramble]

well reactors stack to 1, and I'm not going to put centrifuges on a platform

[woeful geyser]

You might still wanna ship them somewhere (though I don't think they have use outside nauvis?)

[rigid bramble]

needs to be where the uranium is, imo

[atomic aurora]

If you were to use nuclear off of nauvis for some reason, you could reprocess the uranium on-site, but so far, nuclear doesn't seem to make sense on any planet other than nauvis

[woeful geyser]

I can see a single use for centrifuge on a platform though: recycling the spent fuel cells

[atomic aurora]

And even then, a single centrifuge could probably keep up with quite a large reactor setup

[woeful geyser]

So you can very rarely get some uranium rounds

[atomic aurora]

Exactly what I'm talking about. Recycle fuel cells, re-process into U-235

[rigid bramble]

just drop the used fuel cells on Nauvis when you return

[atomic aurora]

Hang on, can you use productivity modules when reprocessing spent fuel cells?

[rigid bramble]

for that 1 extra green rock?

[atomic aurora]

Is it only one extra? On the reprocessing? I don't mean enriching, I know that gives one extra U-235

[rigid bramble]

it might be 3 actually, I'm not sure

[quasi ocean]

Huh.

[rigid bramble]

though remember you only get two slots on a centrifuge, which is a max prod of 50% with legendaries

What are we looking at Bentham?

[woeful geyser]

A uranium train missing half the train

[atomic aurora]

Yeah, you can't quite get the resources to be perfectly self-sufficient with nuclear. With full productivity on making the fuel cells and reprocessing them, you're shy 1 U-238 and the U-235 in order to get back to where you started

[quasi ocean]

The front half, so less, meaning, I assume, that it ran into a biter swarm, the front half got eaten, the back half somehow survived and then someone manually reversed it home

Environmental storytelling

Speaking of environmental storytelling:

Deathworld Gleba go brr

[rigid bramble]

I had a big strafer say hi to my base

then i deployed Tank, and took on a big stomper

normal tank shells are so strong against them it seems

[quasi ocean]

huh

[rigid bramble]

well theres your problem right there

[woeful geyser]

OH

[solid pollen]

F

[hearty meteor]

Don't you people clean up your backyard? ;P

[vivid jackal]

I was worried they'd pop up back there.

[vivid jackal]

Special train engine that shoots flames at a 45 degree angle while driving past biters.

[solid pollen]

at that point you just make buzzsaw trains

[vivid jackal]

Bentham was right though. Someone needs to conquer volcanus so we can get artillary.

[rigid bramble]

I hear you're volunteering?

[vivid jackal]

I'd love to try, but I have so little time to play.

If I'm lucky I get an hour or two at a time.

[rigid bramble]

oh no

[vivid jackal]

The joys of adulting when gaming isn't your job.

[woeful geyser]

Finally...

Fulgora is tough.

Compared to Vulcanus at least.

[vivid jackal]

If it's possible, I could drop into vulcanus with some power and roboports and landing pad to set up something so people could remote build.

[woeful geyser]

Also my own nauvis nearly died because my filters on nuclear weren't checking for 'any' quality of fuel cell...

Which meant my base ran on coal for a good while. Luckily that's still 80% power but at least that explains why the hell I was still making so much pollution

[umbral meteor]

downloading the new update now, will update server once files have been copied over to it.

[atomic aurora]

first off, I wasn't aware higher quality fuel cells did anything in reactors, and second, my power died less than an hour ago because I had made a change to how fueal is braught to my nuclear setup and it broke the system. while I was on fulgora.

I only noticed because biters were suddenly destroying a lot more of my perimeter defenses, and only managed to pull it back because my roboports still had power and I could isolate a path for power to only go to the fuel loading and the reactors themselves, plonk down some solar, and let the system cold-start itself from scratch

[umbral meteor]

it takes so long to update the factorio server....
SOOO many small files...

and server is back up

*nudges @quasi ocean *

[plush ginkgo]

i mostly rebuild the entire server every time i update it

[vivid jackal]

If we generally have the steam engines fed by burner inserters, then wouldn't it be good to have the nuclear feeders have a backup pole to an independent solar accumulator system?

[umbral meteor]

still takes time as there are so many files

@plush ginkgo

[plush ginkgo]

well for me it doesnt really take that long

because i dont have to update the files... just the server

ive got this docker-compose.yml that i wrote and it does most of the work... i just set the version i like and all the other stuff i made does the rest

[umbral meteor]

the files are the server xD
changes done to bin, data and sometimes doc-html

so to make sure no bugs or conflicts i need to copy over the new files xD

from the .zip

[plush ginkgo]

the factorio executable has a function that automatically updates it from a zip

[umbral meteor]

in headless mode as well?

[plush ginkgo]

yes

its the --apply-update option

[umbral meteor]

thanks

[plush ginkgo]

no problem.

if you want to use Docker for the server i can also offer to help you with that

[umbral meteor]

dedicated computer just for hosting community games, so not really needed, but thanks anyway 🙂

[plush ginkgo]

um... that doesnt really mean you dont use docker

i only have one server and i use docker for all the servers

well i only have one server computer for all my servers

[umbral meteor]

installing ALL the lightning rods

[woeful geyser]

I need the bigger ones so badly...

Right now I have rolling blackouts

[umbral meteor]

helps that i have a BUNCH of rare accumulators xD

[woeful geyser]

I have... 2

[umbral meteor]

put up 10 or so quality grinders making them, set at 10k limit xD

let the game run over night and all day today

[woeful geyser]

I should...

But I wanna at least get one research done before I start trying to do things properly

[umbral meteor]

i have finally protected my base and got up power,
time to actually do the thing with recycling

[umbral meteor]

i don't even have a rocket silo here yet xD

anyways, back to the grind it is

quite literally this time xD

[woeful geyser]

Ngl I still don't see a reason to make engines on any planet other than Nauvis and just ship them. I guess it's easier on Fulgora but still

[umbral meteor]

it seems it's also time to pave the world xD

[indigo gust]

I'm making engines on all four colonized planets... most made on Gleba now for the science

[woeful geyser]

FREE CONCRETE!

Ngl I'm sad you get basic stone. I was hoping you'd have to grind concrete into stone

[umbral meteor]

xD

[indigo gust]

Too much stone in my Fulguro, keep clogging up

[umbral meteor]

just destroy it?

Recycle "ore" -> poof gone

[indigo gust]

I suppose I can make bricks and throw them back in the recyclers

[umbral meteor]

or you can just throw the stone into them, and it goes poof

as i said xD

[indigo gust]

oh, that works? I tried it with the solid fuel, but they didn't want it it seemed

[lofty marsh]

i put solid fuel in recyclers to get rid of excess

you probably had something in the output already. each possible result from recycling gets its own spot. if that is different from what is already there it seems to reject the new input until it is cleared

[umbral meteor]

I just tested, put a stack of solid fuel in, and got 5 back xD

but, they do spit it out thew front, so the trick to destroy things surely, is putting two recyclers face to face

like we do with Burner Miners on coal

[lofty marsh]

that works but isnt optimal use of recyclers. and as we all know. perfect isnt even good enough

[umbral meteor]

we care about perfection in factorio? xD

looks at the spaghet

[solid pollen]

hows this for a ship to Volcanus?

ill remove the extra space station bits to reduce weight

[solid pollen]

i have completed my maiden flight to volcanus! the only bug in the entire operation? I forgot to send the engineer and and now need to make 2 more trips

or reset to before I fucked up

[woeful geyser]

1:1 smelting/assembling? Mhm.

[solid pollen]

good for space and the smelters are 100 iron plate storage

[woeful geyser]

Fair

[indigo gust]

I've started to look into the thruster mechanics - would be interesting to get at least an idea about optimizing thrust to weight ratio. First strange discovery as I've been disconnecting a thruster in flight to note the speed reduction - well before it reduces, it goes up?!

[vivid jackal]

The community server now has Vulcanis set up with all the basic materials. But it's pretty slow right now.

[indigo gust]

Did you play with the demolisher yet?

[hearty meteor]

From another discord I've seen that the thrusters are most efficient at between 0 and 10% filled, and apparently got to 90 % efficient with a lot more thrust at around 50% filled or something like that

There's a chart for it in Factoripedia

[vivid jackal]

I got to watch one patrol his border, but spent most of my daily play time trying to figure out what the heck I was doing. Without Bentham helping at the start I don't know if I would have gotten half that done.

Foundry production is automated with copper and iron plates being produced from lava and calcite.

[indigo gust]

yeah, I saw it, so expected better efficiency as it runs dry, but still did not expect to see more thrust than when full - that just doesn't make much sense - guess it is off to run pumps in PWM to control the supply then

[vivid jackal]

Combination of density making separation more difficult, combined with weight/mass?

[hearty meteor]

Someone was running the pump every 10th tick to get the fuel flow they wanted

But yeah, more thrust at lower fill than when full does seem strange.

I thought someone wrote that the thrust always went up with percentage filled

[vivid jackal]

Shoot, @pliant crystal I forgot to change the concrete production to allow for the lavacrete being used.

[indigo gust]

yeah, according to the chart the thrust should be max when fully fuled - guess it is something strange with how the game calculates efficiency and that efficiency affects the thrust maybe?

[solid pollen]

so doesnt that mean its better to use a pump to keep it as low as possible? that seems.... not as intended

[indigo gust]

yeah, it is quite strange - and it will rely on blind forward control - there is no way to know the amount of fuel in the thruster

I'm also not sure how the fluid mechancs works now with regards to how fluids split between different sinks on the pipe network - might need one pump per thruster to keep them balanced

[atomic aurora]

efficiency goes down at higher thrust per thruster. if you look at the values, you get lowest thrust at 6/s, and highest at 120/s. but even though 120/s is 20 times as much as 6/s, the maximum thrust is only 10 times as high. so while higher flow does increas thrust, it isn't proportional to the amount of flow

so ideally, you only want as much flow as you can sustain at a constant rate until the platform stops and has time to restore fuel reserves

cuz if you go full bore but can't sustain that, you'll slow down massively in the middle of the journey, and overall, take longer to make the trip

[pliant crystal]

I'll take a look, but I don't know much about Vulcanus yet.

[vivid jackal]

Just need to change the fancy concrete to allow the regular concrete being made by the lava pool to be sent to it.

Without iron ore, the standard concrete building can just go away.

[pliant crystal]

Gotcha, set up a logistics chest requesting from the lavacrete production?

Righto.

[indigo gust]

The surprising part was the observed increase in speed though - according to the graphs the thrust is at max when fully fueled. And yeah - trickle feeding the thrusters can certainly make for a more efficient trip - not that I'm running out of fuel, but turnaround is quite slow, waiting for the chem plants to refill the buffer. Hence why I wanted to look into what is a sensible ratio of thrust to mass, and now possibly trickle feeding the thrusters. Might be possible to do something clever with the speed feedback from the hub

[lofty marsh]

was it always possible to set crusher recipe with the asteroid chunk signal instead of having to use the recipe signal? my thing broke and that was the cause. but it has worked for so long

[vivid jackal]

It's like the problem with traveling at light speed. The faster you go, the energy required to move increases exponentially.

[pliant crystal]

All done, you can tidy it up when you next log on, but put down two fancy concrete producers instead of the one so you'd have plenty to play with when you get back :)

[vivid jackal]

Tidy? What's that?

[pliant crystal]

Another word for clean, but less about dirt and more about mess.

"Tidy your room" >> "Put your room in order" instead of "Clean the dirt off the floor"

[vivid jackal]

Lol, I went there to help by prepping a base for remote players. But it's lots of fun.

Getting to play with logistics bots was fun, too bad I didn't have time to play with the spidertron.

Too busy getting iron and copper production set up before I ran out of ore.

[indigo gust]

might be that the strange speed increase I observed is unrelated to the fuel in the thruster - does speed depend on location in the solar system?

[hearty meteor]

I've heard that there's "gravity" that's pulling the platform towards the nearest planet at least

[indigo gust]

Observations of a wide range of different thrusts is consistent with max speed proportional to the square root of thrust. For my 430 ton platform v_max = 8 * sqrt(F_thrust), values in default units of km/s and MN

[vivid jackal]

I know that means square ratio, but I read it as squirt.

[hearty meteor]

I always read sqrt as squirt too

First we take the squirt of 2, then we multiply that by pi

[solid pollen]

every time you say squirt i just hear SQUIRTLE

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-squirtle-cute-cool-gif-17959904

[hearty meteor]

Blastoise

[umbral meteor]

Blastoff!

[vivid jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/team-rocket-pokemon-fly-sky-anime-gif-16659565

[rigid bramble]

I think the best efficiency to speed is probably about 80% fill
I mean yes 10% is the most efficient, but you won't be going anywhere fast

[hearty meteor]

Someone wrote:

[vivid jackal]

Thrusters are powered by materials collected on the platform right? Then shouldn't the only thing that matters be speed? Fast enough not to be late, but slow enough to break up large asteroids?

[hearty meteor]

Apparently there's some fun interactions on Gleba:

[rigid bramble]

I feel I'm missing something

[hearty meteor]

With that thing I put up?

[rigid bramble]

just seems kinda ordinary xD

[hearty meteor]

More like it seems a bit like unintended effects to help avoid some of the things of that planet.
At least from what I understood ||that machine would be making the "pollution" equivalent|| and avoiding that would be a sort of "workaround" or possibly even "exploit"

[rigid bramble]

||it creates spores when you harvest a plant|| So not harvesting when you don't need it is kinda how you do it xD

Anyway thrusters, so the advanced recipe makes 150 fuel/s (assuming constant supply of resources) and one common engine uses 120/s, so 6 would use 720/s on full burn

[pliant crystal]

Yup. The equivalent of not mining ore if you don't need it, while managing pollution on an extreme death world start.

You can't use the typical factory "produce until you can't fit any more on the belt" approach in a dead world start because that pollution will get your base wrecked before you can do anything about it.

Kinda like in Rimworld, where on high difficulty, you have to manage your wealth. You'll sometimes hear me talking about buying/selling in terms of "is this wealth going to help me defend the colony? If not, get rid of it." So increasing wealth by buying shock lances, or shield packs is good. Increasing wealth by making art is bad... at least until later on when you have the means to defend it.

[hearty meteor]

Gotta keep the military-industrial complex well fuelled first

[pliant crystal]

On highest difficulty I'll even strictly manage food produced, so I only have enough to cover me for a day or two at most, as food in a freezer is wealth that doesn't protect itself.

[rigid bramble]

Yeah I just didn't get what was so devious about the plan xD

[hearty meteor]

May just be that I didn't understand all about Glebora, since I don't have the expansion

[pliant crystal]

So when it comes to Gleba, my solution so far is, where possible (avoiding letting biological processes stall, like bacteria propagation, etc) only harvest fruit when I'm starting to run low.

Then during the down time the farm has between harvesting, I hope that some of the spores will settle harmlessly, in lands where no pentapods are present. Let it naturally dissapate as much as possible before kicking up more spores.

[rigid bramble]

I might need to turn ammo production back on, but then I'll need to harvest more, hmm

[umbral meteor]

soooo, i just started my processing xD

Belting scrap to my "hub" and then this...

😝

Miners are set to mine until i have 10k scrap, then stop until i have less than 1000

[rigid bramble]

but why not mine it all

my new ship is almost ready to roll out, still need to decide how to do the front of it

[umbral meteor]

i will, just don't want to clog storage xD

[rigid bramble]

make more boxes, or put it on a belt xD

[umbral meteor]

i already have 375 boxes xD

[rigid bramble]

MOAR

anyway, once stocked, I think its ready to fly, all 729 tons of it

[umbral meteor]

Mines are actually VERY effective for facetanking asteroids xD

[rigid bramble]

I am planning to shoot them before then

[umbral meteor]

Nauvis Space Agency

[vivid jackal]

Needs more rockets

[rigid bramble]

its time... I need to go deeper.. into space

[umbral meteor]

Science on Fulgora automated, next step Gleba.....

but first expand solar on Nauvis....

[rigid bramble]

how did you solve the drowning in steel problem?

[umbral meteor]

steam engines kicked in during the day, as apparently i used over 1.2 GW

[umbral meteor]

recycle, recycle, recycle

[rigid bramble]

I just have belts of blue circuits and holmium, hmm

[umbral meteor]

Recycle Steel into Iron Plate, Into Iron Ore, into nothing

[rigid bramble]

steel doesn't become iron plate, does it?

cus steel is forged rather than assembled

[umbral meteor]

you use iron plate to make steel normally

Recycler doesn't care if you forged it, or made it from lava xD

[rigid bramble]

I don't think it does, if you look at the recipe as its grinding

my logic is that you can't unforge something, its one of those reactions, like toast, that you can't reverse

[umbral meteor]

Yes, but you are using real life logic on a game,
they have to simplify some things to make it usable xD

but still, Recycle Steel = Less Steel

[rigid bramble]

if you ask me about concrete, I'll suddenly find I have no internet connection...

[umbral meteor]

Wow. Recyclers could not keep up

750k Gears xD

and Storage full

[rigid bramble]

have you got a steelpocalypse?

[umbral meteor]

Steel -> 15k

[rigid bramble]

I'm going to check something whilst I load up

huh, was there not a indepth FFF about recycling?

agg, whats with the weird hidden priority of logistic requests

6 more rocket launches hopefully, and I get to start my maiden voyage

[umbral meteor]

Icy hell?

[rigid bramble]

I gotta make a stop at the other three first

no reason

Alcarondas, flagship of the Numenor Navy
hopefully won't fall to hubris, like its namesake

[rigid bramble]

gonna take a hot moment to get all 729 tons to Aquillo

[rigid bramble]

welp, I live here now

[umbral meteor]

there we go

expanded my uncrafting, am now down to 14k gears, from 750k xD

360k iron plates though xD

[pliant crystal]

I was setting up a new science area to make it easier to remove rot from sceince labs and noticed a HUGE amount of rot was due to the fact a single military science building was a bottleneck in our science use. I've scaled it up to 3, with speed modules installed, but don't have time to take it any further. Still this seems to have made a massive improvement, but can certainly use some love if someone has the time.

Also switched our main defences to use uranium ammo.

[rigid bramble]

Well in my game I'm just waiting for my ship to rebuild, so it can come back and save me xD

[umbral meteor]

uhm, that bad?

[rigid bramble]

I got no power, no resources, and everything is frozen xD

and apparently so is space, frozen that is

[umbral meteor]

1% light, no surprise there xD

[rigid bramble]

the problems all feed in to each other

||power to make fuel, fuel to make heat, heat to make power||

I have 41.4kw

[pliant crystal]

Uhhh... wat? How??

[rigid bramble]

Spitters?
they really don't like that train

[pliant crystal]

The timing must have been hilariously bad.

[rigid bramble]

Unless you got one of those special biters that only appears in multiplayer games...

you'll have to watch that train like a hawk

[pliant crystal]

Special biters?

Legit?

[rigid bramble]

I'm joking
I was implying a player was being less than dapper

[pliant crystal]

lol, ahhh XD

I was excited by the prospect of multiplayer scaling with rare biters.

[rigid bramble]

invisible biters that just deconstruct and steal random items xD

I haven't actually done nuclear on my nauvis yet, because I've been using 3 heating towers instead

anyone else getting the issue where a power pole won't automatically connect to a large power pole with multiple connections?

[pliant crystal]

Okay, used a fleet of trained fighting spiders to clear up some of Nauvis, mostly bases to the north. It likely won't last super long, but will give a short reprieve. But if the next time someone's on, they'd like to take the squad out to clear one of the other directions, it'd be apreciated. Just pushing bases back past the pollution is more than enough :)

If you do take the fight-o-trons out, be sure not to accidentally snag the build-o-tron in the grouping. It's... not as robust.

[rigid bramble]

can't you make spidertron groups?
so it will only direct the group you pick?

[pliant crystal]

Yeah, shift drag.

Hence my caution.

[rigid bramble]

Ah right, nothing more nuanced, that must have been a mod I had

[pliant crystal]

I mean, once you've made it, it stays, but initial creation you need to tell it which spidotrons to control.

[rigid bramble]

no actually I am thinking of the shift drag RTS style selection you just mentioned, that is new for 2.0

although "You can also save selections on the quickbar, so you can control your favorite group of pals at a moments notice."

[fiery pawn]

biters come and steal your quality modules and you start getting uncommon and rare spitters with more range and HP... hmmm

[rigid bramble]

Legendary behemoth spitter with 50% more range

[rigid bramble]

Nevermind this, it is intended behaviour
it won't automatically connect to a pole that already has 5 connections

[indigo gust]

They really can spawn somehow? I've been wondering how certain entities can get higher quality, enemies being one of them. Of course some can result from spoiling of a quality item

[rigid bramble]

I have a feeling it is in there to be able to be used, say if you wanted to make a mod for quality biters

I don't think ||legendary biter eggs|| hatch into quality biters xD

[hearty meteor]

IIRC Large power poles have a maximum of 5 connections.

Oh, you got to that 20 minutes ago XD

[rigid bramble]

you can manually add them though, which is the disconnect (badum tish)

[hearty meteor]

You can manually add more than 5 connections to the large power poles?

That's weird

Why would Wube do this?

[rigid bramble]

well the limit is on any pole

[hearty meteor]

Huh?

[rigid bramble]

cus this isn't satisfactory with its hard limits xD

harder to show on smalls and woodens

but here is it not connecting

and yet you can manually wire up like this

but anyway, I solved my issue with a substation

tbf the LEP is a leftover from where I had my main train line, away from the bus, but the bus has caught up with and overtaken the train line xD

[umbral meteor]

when i'm "done" with Gleba i'm going to destroy everything on Nauvis and rebuild xD

[rigid bramble]

but I'm kinda attached to my mess

[umbral meteor]

now, barrel and import Lava to nauvis, just because? xD

😝

[rigid bramble]

I mean

well you can't put lava in a barrel xD

[umbral meteor]

[rigid bramble]

but hey you can send calcite and legendary big mining dills to nauvis

how is Mordor doing.. another 1200 space platform to go

[umbral meteor]

no use taking laser turrets with me to Gleba, so Gun, Flame and Lightning it is

[rigid bramble]

why not laser?

[umbral meteor]

enemies has 50-80% resistance

[rigid bramble]

son of a.. worm

[umbral meteor]

Artillery?

[rigid bramble]

kinda of a dick move game >.>
to let it spawn in the ideal range

artillery is expensive

[quasi ocean]

Yeah the only science packs ever set up properly were red, green, blue and white. black, purple and yellow were all bodged on by me because nobody had made them, I was already in space and they were needed so we could do some science

[rigid bramble]

#ILoveTheSmellOfBurningBiterInTheMorning

[indigo gust]

Well, quality bacteria spoils to quality ore so - in the process of turning my smoothly running Gleba into quality madness

[hearty meteor]

Interesting. I would kinda expect that to be a bug, since https://wiki.factorio.com/Big_electric_pole and https://wiki.factorio.com/Medium_electric_pole both makes it sound like they should automatically connect to more than 5 other poles if that is needed.

[rigid bramble]

well its NotABug according to boskid
https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?p=627276#p627276

[hearty meteor]

Huh. Well, they're free to say that, I still think it's actually a bug, though

[rigid bramble]

it must be that you can manually increase the connections in 2.0

if a dev says its not a bug, its not a bug xD

[hearty meteor]

If a dev says it's not a bug that just means they don't consider it a bug, not that it actually isn't a bug.
I can still consider it a bug since it really doesn't make sense that they won't connect to more than 5 by automatic placement when you can manually make it connect to more

[rigid bramble]

and it does make sense in an effort to not let this happen automatically

[hearty meteor]

You'd have to place those manually to begin with since they are circuit wires, though

[rigid bramble]

I didn't wire it up that way

it did that when the connection was broken

[hearty meteor]

No, but you copy pasted them or something (which now somehow tries to keep circuit connections)

[rigid bramble]

they were all connected to a pole behind them like this

[hearty meteor]

Then that absolutely seems like a bug

[rigid bramble]

but you can see how they might want to prevent power poles doing that, if they just connected infinitely to anything in range

[hearty meteor]

Not just connecting infinitely to anything in range, just being able to have more connections to one pole when that pole is the only one that makes sense to connect a new pole to

[rigid bramble]

and side note, no point arguing with me about what is a bug a or not, if a dev has decided it isn't a bug [sic] then it means they are not going to fix it

[hearty meteor]

I'm not arguing with you about what is a bug or not, I'm just saying that I'm still going to consider it a bug, no matter what anyone else says on the matter, whether they be dev or not. You're more arguing about it than I am, to my eyes

[rigid bramble]

its not a bug, its a feature

[indigo gust]

First for science result from quality test on Gleba: ||Quality seeds do not produce quality fruits, so no upping it all to legendary by planting legendary trees producing legendary fruits producing legendary seeds||

[safe rampart]

power poles stop autoconnecting if there are five copper wires going to it. I think you can manually connect more, but im not sure about that

[safe rampart]

didn't see this one

[vivid jackal]

The main base was so hilariously slap dashed together. Everyone only did the bare minimum to go to space, and of not for Bentham there wouldn't have been any decent defenses to keep it together.

I only left for Volcanus so that we could get artillery for the base.

[vivid jackal]

Otherwise why make an ore to liquid recipie right?

[rigid bramble]

I think its just so each planet has its own exclusive resource
lava for Vulcanus, fruits for Gleba, scrap(?) for Fulgora

though if I'm honest I do feel Fulgora is lacking a bit

[vivid jackal]

@quasi ocean I noticed you had two recyclers feeding into each other with science being fed after a certain amount, what does that do?

[vivid jackal]

Fulgora feels like a source of permanent large amount of oil. But I do like how different each one is.

[rigid bramble]

you all about that oil huh

two recyclers feeding into each other is just a voiding set up

since you lose 75% of the input each recycle

[vivid jackal]

Hence no spoilage to deal with, smart. Considering Vulcanis is struggling with not enough oil to get rockets running, kinda.

[quasi ocean]

Prevents buildup of agri science, which leads to near-spoiled science packs being shipped to Nauvis and gumming up with works with spoilage

[rigid bramble]

just make an eigth belt for taking out spoilage into a burner

though my agri packs usually spoil on Gleba

[quasi ocean]

We have that too

But I always try and make agri science faster than I can transport it

[rigid bramble]

I just make it ad infinitum and send a ship over when I need some

[quasi ocean]

Yeah exactly

[rigid bramble]

though I'm getting green belts to make it go brrr faster

[quasi ocean]

so when there's too much, I toss the most spoiled stuff in a recycler

[rigid bramble]

though I need to look into the new beacon restrictions

stacking beacons still adds some to the effect, right?

[quasi ocean]

Yeah

[indigo gust]

Yes, I think it shows graphs for it in the factoriopedia for beacons

[rigid bramble]

so I don't lose any transmission strength

[indigo gust]

Diminishing returns for additional beacons

[rigid bramble]

who do I get to scare with my Beacon-ta-gram?

[indigo gust]

Beacons are the meatballs of your spaghetti?

[rigid bramble]

just my inadvertent pentagram of beacons

I miss bobs beacons though

[indigo gust]

I usually never allocate space for beacons in my layouts, tend to build for easily adding more machines instead of speed

[rigid bramble]

I just remember someone getting offended with my beacon spam in seablock xD

https://tenor.com/view/go-must-go-faster-jurassic-park-dinosaur-tyrannosaurus-rex-gif-4832445

[indigo gust]

I used them quite a bit in my space exploration game, those beacons are quite different

And different types, some wide area ones, some short range but many modules iirc

[vivid jackal]

But if you have multiple machines with the boosts, and then beacons, do the boosts stack with each other. Like with one beacon and 4 machines with 4 boosts your bow spreading a bost worth 16 to each machine?

[rigid bramble]

I should probably do my Tungsten plate properly

[pliant crystal]

I've expanded the walls to tap into the stone mine that was under one of them.

[indigo gust]

Graphs above shows the effect when multiple beacons cover the same machine

[vivid jackal]

That's the number of beacons, I'm asking if the number of total boosts split between machines is calculated or if they only pull one boost of each type from what's available.

[rigid bramble]

no, it doesn't split the boost

[woeful geyser]

That's because there's a limit of 5 connections per pole

[rigid bramble]

I'll let you explain that to Khaylain xD

but thats never communicated anywhere, is it?

[woeful geyser]

Not really...

[rigid bramble]

though now you can manually add more than 5

but anyway, my rescue ship is ready, I just want to add stack inserters and some asteroid reprocessing

[hearty meteor]

To be fair, they changed it so you can manually add a lot more than 5 connections now, see the notes on 2.0.7 for https://wiki.factorio.com/Medium_electric_pole

That language does indeed imply that it shouldn't limit the automatic connections to 5 either, though

[rigid bramble]

Aaaaanyway
its time for operation save our duffelfish

before he freezes his nads off

[hearty meteor]

It's just November

[rigid bramble]

this fish is stuck to the power pole

[hearty meteor]

Can I recommend not licking the power poles?

[rigid bramble]

I was only holding it for moral support

as I watched the Alcarandos break up in orbit

[rigid bramble]

you know those 529 rocket launchers I had? well they're all gone now...

now thats something else I have to automate...

[solid pollen]

how did you lose rocket launchers?

[rigid bramble]

I used them

[solid pollen]

how?

[rigid bramble]

certain things have rocket launchers on them

[solid pollen]

ohhhhh

for gleba?

[rigid bramble]

how do you think spoodertron fires rockets xD

[solid pollen]

so volcanus is hell. my life for the clean floor mod

[quasi ocean]

So iron on Nauvis has once again run out cause the train responsible for it simple isn't getting it

And this system is too fancy for me to decipher and fix

[hearty meteor]

Just build a new train system parallel to the old one? XD

[vivid jackal]

We have the iron on volcanus

[solid pollen]

ping the builder and tell him to fix it or it gets taken down entirely

[vivid jackal]

The builder is Aavak.

[solid pollen]

exactly

[vivid jackal]

Lol

[solid pollen]

either learn his system, or tear it down

and who would dare to tear down Aavak's system?

[woeful geyser]

wields deconstruction planner

[solid pollen]

fair point, i forgot the obvious "Roadtrain and I would tear it down" we have no fear

[vivid jackal]

I messed with the science platform to try to add the advanced products, and got so confused and stressed about messing it up.

[solid pollen]

download a copy of the server and play it singleplayer to mess about and figure stuff out?

[woeful geyser]

[vivid jackal]

Think I got it fixed enough that it won't stall in science production till someone else can make it better.

[hearty meteor]

If I were on the server I'd probably be the train guy...

Doing 4-16 trains ;P

[vivid jackal]

I need to get to space on my own game, staying from scratch is so much easier for me to understand. And I don't stall everyone else's progress.

[solid pollen]

am I blind, is there a place where it implicitly tells you "you can drop stuff on a new planet even without a receiving platform"

ive been fecking mining rocks just to get iron and copper and I could have been using my station the entire time?

[pliant crystal]

Yeah, hover over the ui for space platform's central hub, the lil satelite looking things.

[woeful geyser]

Yep...

[solid pollen]

so basically, you send yourself up with nothing in your inventory, just to send yourself down without inventory, but then send down everything you had stored on the ship for 0 cost other than getting it up there

that feels needlessly convoluted

[quasi ocean]

@wooden escarp Why are you continuously extracting everything from the nauvis landing pad that isn't space science or fulgora science

[wooden escarp]

sorry. seemed to be stuck, so was trying to get things moving again.

[quasi ocean]

There's now 9000 superconductors in the Nauvis logistics network

If you just pull everything from the pad, it's going to continuously request items from space forever until whatever's extracting from them jams

How was it stuck?

Was it full?

The inventory has a scrollbar, you know

[wooden escarp]

sorry. didn't see the scroll bar. nothing appeared to be moving and looked to be full.

[woeful geyser]

Quality grind them? Or are they a Fulgora only craft.

[quasi ocean]

They will eventually get used, probably

But most of them were meant for Gleba, until I suddenly found my platform drained of most of it's cargo on a quick stop over nauvis

[umbral meteor]

i see Aavak is running on 2.0.16 Experimental, want me to update to it, or wait until it reaches stable?