Y-DNA and mtDNA

[drowsy crag]

I have no idea in terms of how far back, just that based on what others have said the haplos they give are far more basic

And that fwiw ftdna, without me having purchased a y test, gave me one about 2k years old

[tulip terrace]

really? it gave me one that was about 3000 years or so

[drowsy crag]

Did you upload it or have a test from there

That definitely will make a difference, the one my dad has on his uploaded test is notably older

[tulip terrace]

I uploaded it

[tulip terrace]

I guess the uploaded test is accurate as well? Just at a very broad level

[drowsy crag]

It'll be right, just an older haplo

[tulip terrace]

cause when I uploaded, I asked myself "cant these haplogroups be mistaken for other haplogroups? or is that not how it works? "

[drowsy crag]

I am not a biologist but generally they're distinct enough they're not gonna make a wrong identification, just that without going into farther detail all they can get is the one they gave you

[blazing compass]

No, this isn't how it works

You are either positive for a group of mutations, or negative, showing the haplogroup you belong to.

[fathom axle]

Sh0t, 23andme won't give you your most recent SNP. For that, you need the Big Y 700 test from Family Tree DNA.

23andme will give you a correct mutation from some point in your lineage, but it will be way, way back in time.

[naive shard]

the simple snp predictors can make mistakes although rare. 23andme used to make mistakes for a few haplogroups so they had to do an update for it (https://blog.23andme.com/articles/23andme-updates-paternal-haplogroup-assignments), but i can tell you that 23andme rarely still has an error with some other haplogroups including my mtdna which it has me in the wrong group (hypothetically, lets say my haplogroup was T1b, but 23andme says T1a instead. this kind of error happens for me)

[warm rain]

In my case, 23andMe has enough data to identify the SNP for R-A151 in my YDNA, which comes from a Munster Irish man who lived around 300CE.

However, my Big Y-700 was able to identify the SNP R-FT248247 which comes from a male from a small Morrison Clan in Uig Parish on Lewis around 1400CE.

So Big Y-700 was for me able to capture named SNPs that were 1000yrs more recent than what 23andMe could pick up on.

Additionally, Big Y-700 also found 5 private SNP variants unique to my specific YDNA (as of now), which can become named terminal haplogroups with more testers.

[fathom axle]

Yep. Big Y -700 got snap's down to 1700s for us, and i suspect the resolution will get even higher once more recent cousins of mine do y-dna

snp's* not snaps lol

We've got 11 people in our group who have done big y. we're lucky. And we're always looking for more recruits.

Once my 3 sons turn 13, they will all get big y-tests which should open up some of our private snp's to get named.

I'm excited to see if any of them have new mutations that the rest of us do not have. That would be historic.

[drifting lava]

My ancestors are from northeastern Anatolia. My paternal haplogroup is L1b1b (L-M317). This haplogroup (not L1b1b but L1a) is most common in South Asia, especially among Dravidians. Did my great-grandparents come from South Asia or Gedrosia (Harappa) and settled in Anatolia or did this haplogroup originate in or near eastern Anatolia?

[blazing compass]

We cannot tell from such a basal haplogroup

Further testing is needed to see if you closely match Anatolians or South Asians

[drifting lava]

Hmm like Gedmatch?

[blazing compass]

No. Like the Big-Y from FamilyTreeDNA

L-M317 is a thousands of years old haplogroup and is not detailed enough to tell your exact origin

[drifting lava]

My homeland is very close to Georgia.

I haven't got Big-Y for now.

[naive shard]

He can if he's Pontian

This is Proto-Pontian subclade:

https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/L-PH997/tree

Has nothing to do with South Asia

Very common in areas which had large Pontic Greek populations like Trabzon

@drifting lava

[drifting lava]

I am from Trabzon.

From East Trabzon.

[naive shard]

I think around 30% of Pontic Greeks have that subclade

[drifting lava]

I wonder why.

[naive shard]

Founder effect in Late Bronze Age / Early Iron Age

[drifting lava]

G2a/J2a/L1b are main haplogroups of Pontic Greeks.

[naive shard]

If you have that haplogroup it means your ancestor has been in Trabzon for at least 3000 years

Paternal line

[drifting lava]

From which region did they settle in the Eastern Black Sea region, what do you think?

Came from Iran?

[naive shard]

It might be native to Caucasus/Iranian Hunter Gatherers

you will probably have to wait for it to be found in ancient DNA sample

[drifting lava]

But aren't these two the two main candidates?

[naive shard]

What exactly is the question now?

[drifting lava]

I asked that if an ancient sample is found, it could come from either the Caucasus region or Iran.

[naive shard]

Yeah, somewhere between the two!

L in South Asia definitely comes from Iran or the Central Asia part next to Iran

But other branches of L never went into South Asia

[drifting lava]

This is not the place to discuss history, but I know that the Laz/Mingrelians (Colchians) lived in the eastern black sea region in the bronze age, but I don't know exactly where they came from. I don't know if they are related to the Hattians, I really need an ancient DNA sample, I hope it will be available soon.

[naive shard]

I don't think they came from anywhere except possibly the Caucasus

It's a native population of the Caucasus / Black Sea region I think...

[drifting lava]

Since I am not very professional and knowledgeable in these matters, at first I wondered whether my ancestors came from today's Balochistan. But thank you very much for enlightening me.

[drifting lava]

Yes they are :)

[naive shard]

I don't think they are related to Hattians

Hattians are more likely the native population of chalcolithic anatolia. I think the population that they are related to is the Minoans in Greece

[drifting lava]

It must be Eupedia forum if I recall correctly, an Englishman who had a Y-DNA test done, said on the forum that he had a common ancestor with a Pontic Greek from 13000 years ago. His haplogroup is L-M317.

[drifting lava]

Do you think they are genetically very distant from today's Anatolians?

[naive shard]

yes, they are closest to greek cappadocians who no longer live in anatolia and are going extinct

[drifting lava]

Many of them converted.

[naive shard]

not really, we have modern samples of turks from central anatolia and they all have central asian ancestry which greek cappadocians dont have

so even if many converted there's no turk from cappadocia that is free from turkic admixture

[drifting lava]

Anatolian 'Turks' generally have trace amounts of East Eurasian. Before I researched these issues, I thought that most people in these lands, at least those who call themselves Turkic, trace their ancestry back to Central Asia, Turkmenistan today. Then I researched and found that Turkic haplogroups are very rare.

[naive shard]

if you ignore that essentially dead population (there's only around 300 greek cappadocians left), then cypriots (both greek and turkish) are probably the next closest

and after that, aegean islander populations. only after that would some (mainland) turkish populations appear similar

[drifting lava]

I think there was probably a mixing with Turkmen women. Also the Tatars brought from Crimea during the Ottoman period mixed with the population. Because Turkic Y-DNA is very rare, we cannot talk about the Turkization of Anatolia as described.

[drifting lava]

At least not the way it is described in Turkish history books.

[naive shard]

oghuz turks were not fully turkic

they brought especially iranic lineages into turkey, not just east asian ones

and actually turks have plenty of evidence of the migration in Y-DNA. it may appear less because turkey has plenty of minority groups with not much turkic admixture

kurds for example

[drifting lava]

The most common haplogroup in Turkmenistan is haplogroup Q-M25. In Anatolia this haplogroup is not absent, but it does not exceed 2%.

[drifting lava]

Minorities are assimilating day by day. 100 years ago there were many more diverse peoples in this geography but their numbers are really dwindling. Assyrians can be the biggest example.

[naive shard]

that's not how you count turkic haplogroups

https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/N-PH3711/tree

this is one of the main turkic haplogroups in turkey

and its not Q, its N

[drifting lava]

There also C, O and N's.

[naive shard]

and a decent amount of R1a and J is also from turkic migration

[drifting lava]

Isn't J mainly Anatolian?

[naive shard]

yes, but there are J clades from central asia

from the iranic component of turks

[drifting lava]

Which sub-clades?

J2 branch seen in Turkey.

"This sample has been assigned to the Caucasus hunter-gatherers (CHG) autosomal component."

[naive shard]

ofc most J2 branches are not from turkic migration

i dont know exact branches but some are definitely not native and came with turks

[drifting lava]

But if there are Turkmen with this haplogroup, they have certainly contributed, but very little.

[naive shard]

its also J1 not just J2

[drifting lava]

Haplogroup J-M267 is the J1 branch that Anatolians got.

[blazing compass]

J-M267 is J1

As in it is the basal J1. It isn't a subclade

[drifting lava]

Thank you for correction.

[naive shard]

my argument anyways is just that some people undercount the turkic Y-DNA that came during the migration

there are various branches that came, not just obvious ones from east asia

[drifting lava]

I'm just against the exaggeration of the Turks, otherwise there must be some. It would be more strange if the Anatolian geography went through so many processes and there were no Y-DNAs that we could call Turkic.

[naive shard]

its hard to measure accurately. some turkish nationalists may try to inflate it, and others in turkey may want to even do the opposite. i dont know what the exact amount is anyways, turkey still needs a lot more research in both ancient and modern to suggest definite proportions

[drifting lava]

It is unfortunate that people living in Anatolia today are indifferent to such issues and even have a strange attitude towards the truth. My father, for example, believes that most of his ancestors came from Far East Asia and settled in the Eastern Blacksea a few centuries ago. So there are millions of people like my father in this geography, they cannot reject the false information that is fed to them because it has become part of their identity. Also, leaving the political side of things aside, the test kits are a bit expensive and I think some companies don't ship them to Turkey. This ensures that the normal public cannot contribute to the data. Not always, but in general, most of the Turks who take DNA tests are Turks who live in Europe, because the test kits are more accessible.

[warm rain]

I'm pretty certain it is iirc as it's found in samples from Chalcolithic Armenia and the Maykop Culture. The reason it's so common in South Asia is because of CHG/Iranian HG ancestry making up the primary component of the populations forming and adjacent to the Indus Valley Civilization

[drifting lava]

Pontic Greeks are mainly %50 BAA + %40 Maykop and %10 Kura-Araxes

[jade tangle]

Just bought a big y and 3 mtdna tests 💸 💸 💸 😭 collecting the rest of the grandparents while I can

[lyric meteor]

RIP your wallet Katie omg

[dim mesa]

A lot of money but well worth it in my opinion. I was fortunate enough to cover all 3 of my living grandparents with big Y & mtDNA tests before their passing. Let us know the results

[jade tangle]

I wish I could’ve waited for a sale 😭

[jade tangle]

Definitely will! One is on hospice and the other two are not in good health so it’s kind of now or never unfortunately

[dim mesa]

Yep, I get that 😦

I hope you are able to share the results with them on time 🙏

In my grandmother’s case, I ordered a Big Y test for her first cousin bc they were an interesting case

I-M253 (a Northern European clade) in Lebanon

Her and I were both excited for the results but she passed suddenly a week before they came in

Be grateful that you were able to test them & share these things with them ❤️

[jade tangle]

Oh that’s terrible 😦 thankfully with the one on hospice I have been able to share a lot about the line they were very interested in but I’m not sure they’ll get to know the test results. I have no clue what processing times are like! I remember my grandmothers mtdna test only taking a month or so? A few years ago

[dim mesa]

Yeah, I hope so too. You are correct abt mtDNA tests, but I know the Big Y takes much longer

After about 3 weeks to a month you get the Y-111 results

And it will be 1-2 months after that when you get the full Big Y results

[jade tangle]

Ahh thanks for letting me know!

[dim mesa]

No problem!

[blazing compass]

What was the final result?

and may your grandmother rest in peace

[dim mesa]

I-FTB97603, it is a clade now shared by 3 Lebanese men all having a common ancestor born around 1060 CE. See here on YFull as well https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-BY3386/

[blazing compass]

I am interested in the I2-S10768 branch since it was found in a very prominent family in India. There is an ancient Lebanese sample there as well.

[dim mesa]

I believe it could have been brought to Lebanon by Crusaders

[blazing compass]

But it seems M253 is I1.

[dim mesa]

Yea

But still cool nonetheless

That I2 Lineage must have migrated from the Middle East to India millennia ago

[blazing compass]

Yes. The family were recorded to have migrated to India in the 1200s from Iraq, but perhaps they came from the Levant instead

[dim mesa]

Both are possible. I think Levant > Iraq > India is a possibility

[dim mesa]

In my grandma's case, I think a connection to this family is a possibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douaihy

Crusader family in Zgharta and Ehden

Close to the Keserwan-Jbeil District where my grandmother and all of her cousin's Lebanese Y-DNA matches are from

Lebanese families change surnames quite often so anything is possible

[blazing compass]

Interesting

[naive shard]

the sample from IAIII Lebanon is ~400BCE while I-S10768 TMRCA is ~2230BCE so the appearance in lebanon might not have anything to do with the modern distribution. all i can say is this clade is under I-S12195 which is the most likely Y-DNA candidate for the proto-anatolian / proto-indoeuropean parent language. so all can be said is that around ~3000BCE the ancestor spoke either proto-anatolian or proto-indoeuropean and then from then to modern there's literally no information about where this clade moved. it being found in lebanon is not very informative as this area had intense contacts with many indo-european speaking people in the centuries/millennia prior

[dim mesa]

why is i2 a more likely candidate than haplogroups that originated in the steppe like r1b

[naive shard]

because I-S12195 is found in preceeding cultures of yamnaya and the r1b clades of yamnaya are not

[dim mesa]

is that so, i never knew. is there a paper or study where i can read more about these findings

[naive shard]

sredny stog has I-S12195

or something upstream

and IE-speaking anatolians have no obvious R1b yamnaya clades

but they seem to have had I-S12195

[dim mesa]

in that case, what language groups was r1b associated with before the yamnaya

if we even know

[naive shard]

i just made sure my memory was correct, let me correct myself

i've confused myself, R1b was still found in some preceeding cultures

its just that proto-anatolians dont seem to have any evidence of these R1b lineages but their lineages brought from migrants seem to be from some I2 branches like I-S12195

anyways, the literature like lazaridis' latest papers argues for 'anatolian from the east' which is not very convincing to me, but is the official opinion of the big wigs of reich lab so i can't offer you anything for my view 😛

basically my theory is against the only literature published, although it is much more believable to many in the ancient dna space i'd say

(that anatolian language came from the balkans with an early offshoot of PIE that had no R1b but only I2 clades)

[dim mesa]

i see your point, thank you for explaining nonetheless

[spice spade]

email from FTDNA regarding mtDNA 👀

[jade tangle]

Million mito tree finally?!

[spice spade]

I HOPE SO 🙏 it's supposed to be soon, isn't it?

[jade tangle]

I’ve been waiting for it since 2020 so I hope so lol

An exciting time to be awaiting 3 new mtdna tests

[spice spade]

right?! 👀 how hopefully the results come in asap

[dim mesa]

Finally!!

The report for my mtDNA was abysmal

Almost no data for African lineages

[tawny abyss]

I haven't been able to make much use of my mtdna results for genealogy unfortunately. Interesting seeing that most of the close matches seem to be from eastern Europe, which may go along with the fact for me it goes back to my 4x great grandmother who came from Hesse-Darmstadt with her husband, but not much else and even that isn't much for confirmation of anything. Things could always change though, maybe it will become more useful depending on circumstance.

[drowsy crag]

More than just H1 as a name for mine please 🙏

[drowsy crag]

If it's any condolence my azorean one is "idk probably scandi" ™️ and also little info

(This is my guess moreso than ftdna, based off the presence of a bunch of distance 2 matches from southeastern norway)

Also distance 3 ones from fucking everywhere😆

[drowsy crag]

I pulled up this for an example also bc don't have to crop out names on this one and even distance 2 is very random already ope

I also did not notice I had that many Irish matches on distance 2 what

[spice spade]

i'm surprised you only managed H1!! hopefully they'll have a more detailed subclade

[dim mesa]

Whats the clade

[dim mesa]

Oh I see ur point lol

[drowsy crag]

Just H1, not even anything after 😭

Also Space pointed out when I asked if he recognized surnames and lmao one of my hvr1 matches is from Pinar del Rio

Ruz and Mandina

[dim mesa]

You should upload to YFull it almost always gives more specific mtDNA data and it’s only $25

[dim mesa]

Lol that’s funny

[drowsy crag]

👀 but rip to $25

Maybe I will whenever I get a y test to save on uploading twice

[dim mesa]

Yea u could do that too

YDNA plus maternal is $49

[drowsy crag]

Apparently her surnames are Fidel Castro's mother's surnames backwards which is funny to me

[dim mesa]

Fidel’s mother was Pinareña, it’s probably the same family

[drowsy crag]

(Idk I saw she was Cuban so I didn't wanna try hard to see if I could trace her family bc prob just canario)

[dim mesa]

Ruz is a very rare surname there

[dim mesa]

Pinar del Rio is canario central so you’re probably right

[drowsy crag]

I have another distance 1 match (for whole sequence) who has a Cuban mother

I'm assuming she is also via some random azorean who moved to the canaries then cuba

Prob from Villa Clara or something idk

[naive shard]

i have relative matches that only get 'H' with mFull. hopefully the updated tree makes everything better, but im still not sure how useful mtDNA is compared to Y-DNA. hope we don't have to wait too much longer to find out

[spice spade]

interesting! i'm excited to see the million mito tree -- my mtdna has actually been more useful than my y-700 but that could be bc i actually have matches 🤣

[drowsy crag]

😭 to no good matches on a y 700 ooooof

I wanna take a y test when I get a chance bc my y comes from a guy living in mexico in the early 1700s who's a brick wall, born 1701

Ik at least 2 people who descend from him took a y test too but i can't see who their tests match

[spice spade]

my close matches are at like 32 or 12 😔 but i still think you should take a y test when you can!!

[drowsy crag]

Yeah! I am waiting for whenever they have a sale to get it

[spice spade]

You and me both! I have a few people I'd like to test. Sometimes I wonder if it's worth it tho.... 😂

Like I'm curious about my direct maternal ancestor's father, so I want to Y-DNA test a descendant (of which I've found a few) but is it worth all that money? Idk

[drowsy crag]

I know the exact haplo and have the numbers for my mother's paternal line, for instance, so if you have someone who tested who you find online at least you could look at their results if they're in a group on ftdna

I could also just ask around enough and get the guy's phone number to ask bc my mom did know who the guy is lmao

For the fairly close relative of hers who tested

[drowsy crag]

I will say though that getting them just like a 37 or 67 first is a WAY easier investment

(What I will do for myself, prob a 67?)

Or 111 if someone happens to dump money on my lap

[spice spade]

Oh that’s smart tbh, i guess i could upload to FTDNA too

Expert has explained it all to me several times so I need to reread 😂

[drowsy crag]

I amusingly found this before I had any test there, was bc some dude on wt had his test linked, and I looked at a group for the surname and a closeish cousin there (group had info on each member's line) has an exact match on every number he has to him 😆

(Their common ancestor is in like 1750 or so, I know my line is from one of the kids of the guy who brought the family to the county but I don't know which, my ancestor is in a land transaction involving land originally owned by an Absalom of the same surname so I have a hypothesis it is via him so far)

The joys of pre-1800 Georgia

I-FGC21868 is the haplo though fwiw if someone is curious

[spice spade]

That’s exciting 👀👀

[drowsy crag]

Prob via a viking or something from where a lot of the closest matches one step back of the haplo was from

(That family originated from some Quaker family in Ireland. So. Lmao to the chances of getting much farther back.)

They are PROBABLY English originally but I do not trust random people throwing shit onto the family

[drowsy crag]

Ye!!! It helps to have it super locked down that the family definitely originated from this one dude, even if I have a gap of a generation!

[spice spade]

Ugh not Ireland 😭 and yeah definitely!! I mean, that’s really impressive & who knows what the FS text search might find in the future 👀

[drowsy crag]

I know the Quaker church books for some of that part (e.g. county Meath) of Ireland survive tbf!

His wife's ancestors from country antrim do have (or had) extant docs from then

Meath uhhhhhh we shall see

(SUPER early for Ireland either way, and idk if the Quakers are gonna record an exact town in (presumably) England someone is moving to a new meeting from that early)

[spice spade]

That would be pretty exciting!! I didn't know Quaker records survived!

[drowsy crag]

I've seen a book on archive.org with a copy of them!

[dim mesa]

Jt would make sense there were a lot of Azoreans in Canarias

[drowsy crag]

Yeah a lot!

My mtdna is MAYBE via some Spaniard in the azores

This is my guess via the fact I have literally zero matches from continental portugal

But multiple spanish colonies or spain

Galicia

[winter juniper]

I can answer this for free. I sent you a DM.

Answer: https://www.yfull.com/mtree/H1cu/ haplogroup H1cu defined by C16320A shared with Portuguese customer YF068595 and Portugal scientific sample EF177432

http://ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/h1cq-h1cu_genbank_sequences.htm

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/EF177432.1

YF068595 tested with Dante Labs and has both paternal & maternal lines from the Azores

So of course as they didn't test with FTDNA, they don't appear as a match to you

[dim mesa]

How did you do that 🤯

[dim mesa]

Yea, good chance it was that. I have a lot of lines in Canarias that go back to the Azores, it’s all very interesting.

[winter juniper]

He showed me how his mtDNA includes C16320A and C6848T, and I noticed that the H1cu sample EF177432 has those too.

[dim mesa]

Ahh I see that makes sense lol

[winter juniper]

His Cuban match with a genetic distance of 1 from himself perhaps has only C16320A but not C6848T.

Or perhaps the Cuban match has both of them but also a private mutation or heteroplasmy that nobody else has.

But it seems that he and the Cuban will form a new branch on FTDNA's MitoTree soon, whatever they choose to call it.

[dim mesa]

I really hope so

I eagerly await those results

[warm rain]

I hope I get some expanded mtDNA data myself! Mine is on a Fille du Roi line in Quebec, so maybe they can get something more than H1-T16189C!

I have a match who is 0 steps removed from me, so is very certainly descended from that same Fille du Roi as me

[dim mesa]

Yep must be

[dim mesa]

https://www.theytree.com/tree/J

Basal J* in China

Neither J1 nor J2

Tested negative for both mutations

[drifting lava]

Which haplogroup is found in Caucasian/Armenian gypsies (Posha)? I searched but unfortunately I could not find 1 example.

[naive shard]

not reliable unless yfull or FTDNA

this could be corrupted BAM or low quality

this website has no quality control

i remember a bad batch of dante labs x30 WGS came out and we were seeing basals all over the tree, they were later removed because the WGS were corrupt

additionally, it is quite easy for anyone to fake!

[dim mesa]

Ah did not know, I assumed this site had similar reliability to YFull

[naive shard]

which is why FTDNA wont add the y-dna/mtdna of 23andme/ancestrydna transfers to their tree. you can simply modify the data to appear to have any haplogroup

[dim mesa]

That’s a fair point

[naive shard]

but it could be cool to see J1/J2 basal split

[dim mesa]

Yea I agree

The fabled J3

[blazing compass]

This is not true basal J. He has low coverage so he must be J1 or J2

[dim mesa]

I assumed the site was like YFull, but now I realize this to not be the case

You might be right

[blazing compass]

It is, but you can upload autosomal files as well, with nearly 0 coverage

[dim mesa]

Oh

I see

That explains why then LOL

[drowsy crag]

I have 3 more matches that are distance zero, so those 3 also are kinda definitionally gonna make it too😆

(3 distance 0 who are 2 azorean and 1 brazilian, and 4 distance 1 who are 1 each of cuban, brazilian, azorean, and gallego)

I also have some other matches who just have hvr1 & hvr2 alone who probably all just have a very old mt test (one of those shares like 150 cM and has no tree lmao)

One of which goes back to the same parish as one of the distance zero matches 👀

(I can't track her currently bc her mother is born in 1924, and while I have her parents' names in 1 doc made in the usa, they'd married after 1911, so can't get copy of it without writing to ask)

[drowsy crag]

Thank you interaction bot that was very useful

😆

[dim mesa]

Just so you know, distance 0 matches are usually related within 250-400 years 👀

Leaning more towards the younger side

Distance 1 is a bit further out but could still possibly be within a genealogical time frame

[drowsy crag]

Oh I thought it was like twice that range for usual distance lmao

I suspect the distance zero ones are all related in like 1500-1600 to me

The two I can track as said before I can get to like 1700ish, same as mine

[dim mesa]

it varies bc mitochondrial dna mutates very slowly so it could really be anything within that time frame. definitely after 1500 tho if its an exact match

[drowsy crag]

Just I have a mess in Ajuda da Bretanha (one parish away from maternal line parish) and in Brazil, and someone who doesn't have farther than grandparents

Honestly the nordeste (pernambuco or whatever) is probably the higher chance out of it vs Bretanha to go back to 1600😆

[dim mesa]

yea u might be right lol

i tested one of my grandpa's cousins to get his mtdna and she had distance 0 matches that i was able to trace back to a single ancestor c. 1730

[drowsy crag]

Yeah super slow, I just for some reason remembered it being generally the past 1500ish years or something being the range it's in the vast majority of the time

However this is also endogamy hell ™️

Which probably works in my favor 🤣

[dim mesa]

true true 💀

endogamy is always fun

[drowsy crag]

I love looking at someone on my maternal line and they have the same surname as my grandmother 4 times in their own ancestry 😎

my grandmother's surname pops up 3 times in my maternal line counting her😭

It's not even a patronymic or anything

[drowsy crag]

I should make a chart of this for a joke for family dump when my keyboard isn't broken for how many times each 3x of mine will have this surname pop up 😆

[jade tangle]

💔 due to the snow in the south slowing down shipping, one test didn't make it on time (she has daughters, I will test one instead)

[spice spade]

I’m so sorry! 😔

[jade tangle]

a good reminder to everyone to test while you can! we were expecting it but not quite this soon

[lyric meteor]

I’m so sorry Katie ❤️

[dim mesa]

I’m so sorry for your loss ❤️

[jade tangle]

Thanks guys ❤️

[drifting lava]

I am sorry for your loss Katie 🩵

[drifting lava]

Does anyone have any theory on how I got R-L2 as an Albanian? I know R1b in general is common amongst us, but a different variant is (R1b-Z2103). maybe celtic settlements in the balkans?

[sick sinew]

my guess would be an Roman ancestor from Italy.

[drifting lava]

That could be tbh but im just skeptical of that

Theres a lack of roman admixture in the Albanian genome, but there are percentages of gothic admixture and celtic, thats why im skeptical

[hearty swift]

Just FYI illustrative DNA is out of the scope of this server. See #rules 10

And the pinned post in #ethnicity-estimates

[drifting lava]

Oh my bad

[hearty swift]

No problem at all!

[sick sinew]

IIRC there are quite a few English people who carry Roman Y-dna despite having essentially 0 Roman autosomal DNA, and that's despite the English having significant ancestry from regions that were beyond the empire. I wouldn't be surprised if Albania was similar, but I don't know much about Albanian genetics.

[naive shard]

Do you know more specific than 'R-L2'... that's pretty useless

the only albanian R-L2 sample on yfull is basal

[drifting lava]

Got a point there, tbh ill try do more research because celtic influence wasnt that apparent on the mountainous Illyrian regions of southern Illyricum. So it could be a roman ancestor

[drifting lava]

Thats all bro sadly

but I will get more results when I paste my data into other websites as well

[naive shard]

perhaps you should try asking at rrenjet

since its albanian focused

and they'd know more what possibilities

[drifting lava]

true i should ill give it a shot

its just crazy how super rare this haplogroup is amongst albanians

[drifting lava]

@naive shard The owner of Rrënjët responded (translated):

"R-L2 is >4500 years old, that is before the formation even of the Illyrians, let alone the Albanians. It is true that a big part of R-L2 was later involved in the Celtic cultures, but it does not have to be all of L2, because as I said, L2 precedes known historical populations and their associated cultures. That is why it is important to find a more specific subclade. If you do this better test and find out you belong to a younger branch of L2 that is under 2500 years old, and your connections are from western or central Europe, then we can say your ancestor was probably part of the Celtic tribes. But until such a subclade is found, all options are possible."

[steady violet]

What do y'all think of haplogroup I2a1b3

What ancient nation were people that had that haplogroup

[drifting lava]

It is attributed to the Slavic Migration, so Proto-Slavs?

[naive shard]

at I-L621 level, still some sort of hunter gatherer group but yeah at I-Y3120, which the vast majority of moderns fall under, it's proto-slavic

[drifting lava]

Yeah you're right, also update I will be taking a YDNA speicifc test soon to see my exact subclade of R-L2 and when it was formed

[naive shard]

well, hopefully you don't end up at basal R-L2

[drifting lava]

u mean getting the same result? hopefully not that would be a waste 😭

[naive shard]

yeah, if you dont belong to any known branch under R-L2 its a possible result

i guess its the least likely possibility though

[drifting lava]

would be a kick in the bottom ngl will leave a lot of questions unanswered

whyd I have to have R-L2, its so rare that theres not enough data on it AND in the balkans its super duper rare

like if I had R1b-Z2103 it could be easily explained since it was found amongst Illyrians and Thracians

and many have it amongst Albanians as it is the second most common

and it doenst help that the main haplogroup in my tribe is J2b-L283 either as that was the main paternal haplogroup for the illyrians

[steady violet]

Some say that they didn't migrate with slavs

Some say that they migrated

[drifting lava]

The specific subclade that majority of south slavs fall under (I2-CTS10228) is attributed to the Slavic Migrations

The approximate frequency and variance distribution of haplogroup I-P37 clusters, ancestral "Dnieper-Carpathian" (DYS448=20) and derived "Balkan" (DYS448=19: represented by a single SNP I-PH908), in Eastern Europe per O.M. Utevska (2017).

[steady violet]

I'm i-ph908

Xd

But why is the i2a dinaric most prevelant

If the people migrated from some other region

[drifting lava]

We find that R1a is the most common amongst the eastern slavs, the way scholars have understood why I2a is so prevelant in the Balkans is because 1. The Migrators of specific tribes that already existed before settling (Serbs; White Serbs, Croats; White Croats) had this as their main haplogroup. Or 2. Genetic Drift; the I2a-Dinaric type breed out the other types. "Genetic drift may cause gene variants to disappear completely and thereby reduce genetic variation.[3]" from Wikis page about Genetic Drift

Also:

"However, the prehistoric autochthonous origin of the haplogroup I2 in the Balkans is now considered as outdated,[nb 1] as already Battaglia et al. (2009) observed highest variance of the haplogroup in Ukraine, and Zupan et al. (2013) noted that it suggests it arrived with Slavic migration from the homeland which was in present-day Ukraine.[24]"

[naive shard]

its already proven via ancient dna, they've found full migration era slavs carrying this Y-DNA

[steady violet]

So y'all theory is that i2a people are not native to balkan

[naive shard]

why are you relating this to all of I2a?

some branches of I2a are native to the balkans, this one is not

[drifting lava]

Not all of them no, but specifically I2-CTS10228

[steady violet]

I wanted to say i-ph908

For example

[naive shard]

prior to ancient dna i can understand the debate of this clades origin

but now its an open shut case

[drifting lava]

"According to Pamjav et al. (2019) and Fóthi et al. (2020), the distribution of ancestral subclades like of I-CTS10228 among contemporary carriers indicates a rapid expansion from Southeastern Poland, is mainly related to the Slavs and their medieval migration, and the "largest demographic explosion occurred in the Balkans".[15][33]"

[naive shard]

ok, that's definitely a slavic marker

[drifting lava]

and this one ends it all:

"According to a 2023 archaeogenetic study, I2a-L621 is absent in the antiquity and appears only since the Early Middle Ages "always associated with Eastern European related ancestry in the autosomal genome, which supports that these lineages were introduced in the Balkans by Eastern European migrants during the Early Medieval period."[34]"

[steady violet]

Then why I didn't get any Eastern European dna on myheritage and 23a dme

[naive shard]

because those tests use modern populations as reference panels, not ancient

[steady violet]

It's confusing

[steady violet]

Ah ok

[naive shard]

'Balkans' category would compare you to modern Serbs/Croats/Bosnians for example

Greek & Albanian to Albanians and mainland Greeks

[steady violet]

Ye thx

So i-ph908 (dinaric south) is Slavic migration dna

[naive shard]

yes, and another paper that will come soon will add more formal evidence for that

[drifting lava]

yeah as usual yk

when the slavs migrated they used to not mix as much but after a while when the paleobalkanic people assimilated into the slavic people the intermarriage started

hence its pretty common to see 30% paleobalkanic

[steady violet]

Yep

It's even more common cos live near Albanian and north Macedonian border

[drifting lava]

yeah it could be higher but make sure to download ur raw data and paste it onto other sites so that u can get more results and in depth

this is promising I must say

[steady violet]

Which cites for example

Can u tell

[drifting lava]

well according to rule 10 here: "No discussing ancient DNA or third-party ethnicity estimates
The only ethnicity estimates approved for discussion are those provided by Ancestry, 23andMe, MyHeritage, LivingDNA, or FTDNA. Discussions about Gedmatch admixtures, G25, and ancient DNA are not permitted."

So you can try out Ancestry, 23andMe, MyHeritage, LivingDNA, or FTDNA and trying to see what they say

add me rq

[drowsy crag]

I had to use some autosomal matches and wato+ to prove it but I finally proved how one of the distance zeros is connected to me 👀

(We share the direct maternal ancestor in the late 1700s, I need to find her baptism some time but she married in 1806 and her parents in 1783)

[steady violet]

Btw i also got more Albanians in matches than Russians

It's weird

[dim mesa]

ohh thats sick i love using wato to solve mysteries

im working on my dads female line rn

because i got ancestry pro tools

and saw a cluster of dna matches that all share 300 cm with each other (highest match shares 192 cm with my grandma)

i think they could all be related through his great great grandmother who was orphaned

their maternal haplogroup is l3e2a1b5

[heavy sedge]

It has come to my attention that there has been a lot of ancient DNA discussion in this channel. Ancient DNA is against rule #10. Please use this channel to discuss Y-DNA mtDNA and haplogroups in regard to genealogy and a reasonable genealogical timeframe. Any Ancient DNA discussion will be deleted and could result in a warning if it’s a repeated offense. Thank you 🙂

[drowsy crag]

Okay not strictly that but very related bc technical side of the platform they're on

Has anyone here tried making a group on ftdna for y and mt results for a specific area?

I am once again thinking to myself it'd probably be useful for folks in my paternal side endogamy mess to have a group with a bunch of y and mt results especially the latter for brick wall breaking

More specifically is doing so very labor intensive or just submit a thing and they make group

[dark osprey]

I did
BD-WB Bengali y-dna & mtdna
Its not that difficult to submit the application
But lately they are taking a long time to review each request

[dim mesa]

Not for a specific area

But I did for my grandfather’s subclade J-CTS4304

One of his Y-DNA matches and I got together because we noticed that the clade is ~4000 years old and now has 100+ people

So we want to gather as many testers as possible

[median mason]

hello all! i'm not sure what the best way to show / ask this is, so I'm going to do my best...

i just got the Y-DNA test results back for my grandfather (the last male in his line, since he had only daughters, including my mother) and i'm trying to understand what i'm looking at.

when i signed up for FtDNA to run this test, i also signed up for the Reeves Project (my grandfather is a Rives) and he's tested into haplogroup E-M35, which is "Group 8" in the Reeves Project. this confirms my grandfather descends from the Robert Ryves line out of Dorset, England (and likely France prior to that).

my question! i'm looking at a Y-DNA results overview for the reeves project (link here if anyone else can view it? https://www.familytreedna.com/public/reeves?iframe=ydna-results-overview) and i'm trying to understand what the highlighted cells mean? each group has rows where certain cells are highlighted purple or red and i'm curious what i should be gleaning from this information?

i am also curious what these blank names mean?

[jade tangle]

if there's no name in the third column, i think that means the user hasn't filled in their oldest known paternal ancestor field, but their results place them in group 8

as for the highlighted cells, it looks like those are ones that differ from the norm of that group (i.e. that lone 14 in the column of 13s) a mutation? but someone with project admin experience could tell you more! i'm sure the group admins wouldnt mind answering your questions 🙂

[median mason]

thank you!

[jade tangle]

hopefully someone with more experience pops in!

i'm excited to see the results of one of the Y tests i'm waiting on. the tester's oldest known paternal ancestor is not even from the same country or area as the groups in the surname project (he was in canada at the same time as these groups' folks were in the southern US)

[drowsy crag]

I know who this is I think and 👀

[jade tangle]

who do you think it is? it's my husband's paternal line 😄 the one that ends in 1820s toronto!

[drowsy crag]

I was right 🎉

[jade tangle]

but i'm getting the french canadian line done too

aha!

[drowsy crag]

I knew this bc I mentioned the surname to you before and you commented he has it but in canada (and thus prob unrelated to mine who are american)

[drowsy crag]

Okay cousin finding time brb to dms😆

[jade tangle]

good memory!

[blazing compass]

@median mason Both answers are correct

and I am happy to help you with anything else you may need

[jade tangle]

oh good i was hoping you'd see

[median mason]

Thank you! I may DM you in a day or two then!

[blazing compass]

Yep, that's fine. Or you can ping me here.

[median mason]

@blazing compass - okay, i get it now with regard to the numbers. now that i've updated my grandpa's to include an ancestor, he shows up and i can see his first 37 match almost identically to each of the other testers with the same early ancestor. now that i know what i'm looking at, i can start to see the patterns.

is there anything specific i should start working to glean from this data? truth be told, i did the test specifically to prove and/or disprove a father (disproved it) and now i'm just curious if there's anything else i should be doing. this line is relatively well-researched as it is.

[blazing compass]

Now that you've essentially proven your descenr from that ancestor, there's not much more you could do with just the Y-37.

If you'd like, you could do the Big-Y. This would generate an exact TMRCA with your closest paternal relative who has also done the Big-Y, and you will be placed on the YTree of mankind.

[median mason]

fascinating. okay, i'll look into it. may actually be a good christmas present for my grandpa depending on how this goes.

one last question for you (at least for now). i see that one of the guys in the same haplogroup did the Y-111. at least for the first 37, his results and my grandfather's are nearly identical (only one cell is different).

i am aware there could be additional differences between 37 and 111, but would the insights he received as part of his 111 report be applicable to my grandfather, if he were willing to share them?

[blazing compass]

Depending on how many others have also done the Y111, there might not be any insights at all

But if many descendants of this line have Y111 STRs, you can see specifically which ancestor was the beginning of a new mutation

[median mason]

ah, interesting! unfortunately, for this specific group at least, i see only one big-y and only one 111

the person who did the big-y shares one of the mutations with my grandfather, but not the other (of the two my grandfather has)

[blazing compass]

Do you have your genealogy linking to the common ancestor?

[median mason]

neither the big-y tester or 111 tester have provided information on their furthest known, but we are all in the same group so i have to imagine they're the same guy.

i do have my grandfather's noted. i think i'm answering your question...

(and if i'm not please forgive my ignorance lol)

[median mason]

if you are asking if my research / family tree links to the same common ancestor - yes. i can trace the line back to him

[blazing compass]

Yes, that is what I was wondering. I recommend you definitely contact them

[dim arrow]

Hi folks! I'd like help understanding how Y results should be interpreted.

I have an exact match at the Y-12 level. That match tested up to Y-37 but does not appear as a match at that level. Given the time estimates provided for each step, I'm not sure how a Y-12 exact match wouldn't be a Y-37 4 step at minimum. What am I missing here? Is this just an example the estimates being estimates?

[blazing compass]

Y-12 matches should be ignored, really. They don't carry much significance at all, and 1600CE is not accurate. You can share 12 markers with someone who is thousands of years separated from your lineage.

[dim arrow]

Thanks! I guess my next question is where do I go from here? I need a little help understanding how I can extract usable information out of my results. Or maybe there's just not enough here to be relevant to my research.

This is what I got

That 25 match is 1 step, the 37 matches are all 3 or 4, and all 67 matches are 6 or 7

All hanging out at the lower rungs of the marker sets

[blazing compass]

What exactly are you searching for? And whereabouts is your ancestry from?

[dim arrow]

I am hoping that my results will:

A) help confirm the sparse amount of records I have for my patrilinear line from my great grandfather up
B) aid in finding new records on the families of these men, or even go further back in the line

My great grandfather was born in Slovakia in 1885, so that's my area of focus

[blazing compass]

Are surnames kept there for many centuries? And does anyone share that surname in your matches?

[dim arrow]

For more context, I took an autosomal test a few years ago. It's on Ancestry, MyHeritage, and now FTDNA. I had shockingly few matches from the region (though there are a handful and I don't have any evidence that would suggest an NPE, for example)

[blazing compass]

otherwise, is anyone from the region that you're ancestors are from?

[dim arrow]

I don't believe so. I also have a hunch that the surname I have doesn't go back very far. One of the pieces of evidence from records that I want to confirm is that one of these men was born with a hyphenated surname - father's and mother's. And when his migrated to the US, he stuck with just his mother's.

[dim arrow]

A couple from Slovakia, and more from the region generally

Ukraine and the balkans

Hungary as well

[blazing compass]

Perhaps contacting those from your region could be helpful

Using STRs alone can only really give hints as to who and when you share an ancestor with

Especially when there are no close Y111 matches

[dim arrow]

I will 🙂 I just wanted to keep my expectations in check given the lack of big flashing "here's a close relative" lights with these matches

[blazing compass]

No, there's no one that seems to be specifically close. Did you do a Big-Y or Y111 test?

[dim arrow]

Big Y so I'm looking forward to that (probably two more months?). Though my understanding is that that probably won't help with matching

[blazing compass]

Yep, that should help in seeing how closely related you are to other testers

[dim arrow]

Only if they've also taken the Big Y test, correct?

[blazing compass]

Yes.

[dim arrow]

Thanks. Given how few people have taken it, I won't get my hopes up

Very interested in seeing the detailed migration estimate though

It would be nice to dovetail my hard genealogical research into more broad strokes "here's what we know about the people we came from"

[jade tangle]

how long did it take to get your prelim results?

[dim arrow]

They received my kit on 1/15, so just under a month

[jade tangle]

awesome! thanks (i'm waiting on big y too)

[blazing compass]

Y111 comes within 2-5 weeks of the Big-Y analyzing. Usually 3.

As for the full Big-Y, the wait feels like 2 years 😭

[spice spade]

was expecting an update to my mtdna, not my y-dna! lol

[shadow portal]

Did you do y700?

[spice spade]

I did! Got my results in October & they just updated again

[drowsy crag]

I will note: h1cu's got an entry now and the country list exactly matches what my distance zero and one matches put for themselves!
https://discover.familytreedna.com/mtdna/H1cu/story

[lyric meteor]

cries in H1c3

[drowsy crag]

Ooooof a lot of people have that one, hopefully they'll be updating the haplo they give you? 🤞 (My haplo isn't actually updated in their site yet)

I'm still just h1 there 😭

[shadow portal]

exciting! did you get a new close match?

[winter juniper]

Yes they will do it over the coming weeks. It will take time because haplogroup H is so complex they said. https://discover.familytreedna.com/mtdna/H1cu/classic shows the mutations involved in their branching declaration decisions.

[winter juniper]

The same two mutations as YFull MTree used. Sometimes MitoTree copies branch names and definitions from MTree while other times they go in their own direction.

[spice spade]

Unfortunately not :/ my closest match is at 37

[shadow portal]

I meant at the blocktree

[spice spade]

yeah, zero there too :/ I have one other country in my "block" but no match

[shadow portal]

wow! I think i did manage to find my new haplogroup that way as well 🙂

[drowsy crag]

So based on this, I now have figured out which of these matches is which and aaaaaaaaa that I don't know how the other 3 people marked with F8558678 are related to me

[spice spade]

interestingly, mine isn't on there

[drowsy crag]

Two of them go back to two women with the same surname* in the same parish in the azores and another goes to an early 1700s brick wall in I wanna say Ceará or Rio Grande do Norte

[shadow portal]

I match a Finnish woman at a distance of 1... so... let's just say there's no way in hell I'll ever figure that out lol

[drowsy crag]

*okay one also being Sousa is me hypothesizing that two couples are the same as they're contemporary, and have the same names other than the wife's surname, Frias vs Sousa

(Brás de Medeiros and Teresa de Frias or Sousa, and an hvr1+hvr2 match has a couple in the same town with the surnames Travassos and Sousa for her maternal line)

[winter juniper]

Any good discussions today about mtDNA in the "Azores Islands" project at FTDNA? 2812 members !

[drowsy crag]

This town is also one (1) away from where mine ends

[drowsy crag]

I doubt it bc the project is super inactive 😆

[drowsy crag]

My distance 1 are supposedly related within the past 2075 years sooooo yeah possibly too far😭😭

I have a theory that all of my distance zero matches are probably somewhere in the azorean endogamy mess between 1450-1650

My other mtdna matches via just hvr1+2 via the azores include a definite cousin of known relation, a definite cousin who shares dna (like 180 something cM with my grandmother but has no tree), and some folks who I can't trace far enough in Brazil or American immigrants to reach a town in the azores

[naive shard]

never tested my mtDNA at FTDNA, but comparing the mutations in my 23andMe raw data allows me to know that I belong in this clade: https://discover.familytreedna.com/mtdna/J1b8a2/tree

wish there was an updated JamesLick-like predictor for mtDNA that uses the new mitotree or yfull's mtree to make the process more efficient though

[winter juniper]

Some of MitoTree's dates are incorrect

[warm rain]

I got that notification too, but it just seems to be the system updating my haplogroup to what my Big Y-700 is

Rather than my initial Y-111 assignment

[dim mesa]

@drowsy crag have ur mtdna results been updated yet?

still nothing for mine

[jade tangle]

I assume we’ll get an email? I’ve got nothing yet either

[dim mesa]

yea me neither. im interested in my grandfather’s line because of im reading the new discover tree correctly, hes going to get a new haplogroup thats only 200-300 years old

the current one he has now formed in 13000 bce so this would be big

[jade tangle]

Wow!

I’m in H so I don’t expect to hear anything for a while

[naive shard]

mtdna tree dating seems very inaccurate, so take that with grain of salt

[dim mesa]

how so

seems accurate for my lines

my grandfather would share that 300 year old clade with 3 other cubans from his same home province

[naive shard]

dont want to break rules, but basically because ancient dna samples are included in the tree, we can see countless examples where the ancient dna samples are much older than the TMRCA with the same clade. you just need to look through J/H/T and see that the dating cannot be trusted. not sure about more recent clades, but it primarily stems from the fact that mtdna mutations are very rare and inconsistent, so the possible date of a mutation can have a variably wide dating in reality. their tree on the otherhand shows narrow TMRCA predictions (narrower than Y-DNA, which mutates much more frequently and consistently), which doesnt make sense

[warped olive]

We do not allow discussions about ancient DNA in this server, including services and calculators that primarily or specifically deal with ancient DNA. For more information please refer to the pinned post in #ethnicity-estimates.

[dim mesa]

That makes sense

Im sure it will be refined with time though

My own clade is pretty clear cut

L2a1n6’7’8

I am completely surrounded by Nigerian samples, and my 3rd great grandmother was an enslaved Yoruba woman, so no surprise there!!

[shadow portal]

my likely new mtdna tmrca is now at 50 years or something - with 1 mutation between two people from quite different countries having ancestry in those areas for quite some time. I assume the tmrca checked by hand before I receive an email

[naive shard]

my clade looks like neolithic or copper age TMRCA at best but its showing roman era TMRCA 😛 its off by 1000s of years as many neolithic era clades are being shown in the metal ages on the tree. i think its a very hard problem for them to solve... they need to just show that the 'range' of possible dates is much larger so it at least isnt contradicting itself everywhere

[warm rain]

I think technically my mtdna could form it's own clade since I do have a match who is 0 steps removed. However, I have Filles du Roi mtdna, so I at least know the exact person it comes from; my Poitevine 10th GGM Marie Fauçon (1644-1709) from Rochefort

[drowsy crag]

Same, nada

[tawny abyss]

No update for mine. It has two badges for my mtdna now on the main dashboard page, one showing my "classic" result and the other saying it's Mitotree but Analyzing still. Haven't logged in for a while.

[spice spade]

I’m excited!!

[naive shard]

https://discover.familytreedna.com/mtdna/L2a1n6'7'8/tree

which new branch is yours?

[dim mesa]

None I am the Cuban sample

[winter juniper]

I prefer the classic view.

[tawny abyss]

Looking at anything under my haplogroup discovery page has just been showing errors since I logged in earlier. Not sure if it shows up for anyone else:

https://discover.familytreedna.com/mtdna/U5a1a1-T152C!/story

[spice spade]

I can see mine, but yours is not working

[tawny abyss]

Maybe has something to do with the update being worked on, but wouldn't have expected them to remove the old one yet at least. Could just be a bug too. Thanks for checking though! Good to know it's not just my side.

[spice spade]

I'm crossing my fingers! Back in November, they said March 2025 for a release, soooo....

[winter juniper]

Many people in mtDNA haplogroups beginning with A, HV, M, N, R0, V, and X have begun to show their MitoTree assignments in their profiles in match lists on March 4th. People in haplogroup H will be the last to display MitoTree assignments.

[spice spade]

👀

[winter juniper]

And some haplogroup names on MitoTree have changed in the past week!

Haplogroups H and T are not yet updated.

Haplogroup L is.

K is not yet.

[dim mesa]

Yep, got mine today!!

[winter juniper]

Z is updated.

C is updated.

B is updated.

F is updated.

[dim mesa]

Still waiting for T

My Lebanese side

[winter juniper]

G is updated.

[dim mesa]

T2e3

[winter juniper]

I is updated.

J is not yet.

[spice spade]

U isn't yet 🤧

[winter juniper]

D, R, and W were also done.

[dark osprey]

my mtdna is M35a1 from my 23andMe
Its dated 2600 BC in mtDiscover, and its from the Indian subcontinent
I am from South asia so no surprise there

[warm rain]

I wonder where I will fall since I'm H1-T16189C!

I seem to be from a basal sub-branch that's not say H1b, H1g, etc.

[winter juniper]

Haplogroup J was done today! Haplogroup Y is also ready in MitoTree.

Haplogroup K is also fully released to customers.

[tawny abyss]

Got the Mitotree haplogroup update: U5a1a1da

"Classic" was: U5a1a1-T152C!

[spice spade]

did you get an email?

[tawny abyss]

Yes, email came about 10 minutes ago

[spice spade]

glad to know they're on U!

[trail ridge]

Had no idea this channel existed.

[spice spade]

no time like the present, welcome!!

[earnest pewter]

Sean, you know we were hiding this from Thadius

gosh

[spice spade]

Jen, why didn't you remind me 😭

I need to write this in my notes smh

[trail ridge]

From U5a1a1 to U5a1a1z. Big changes going on over here!

[spice spade]

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/U5a1a1z*/ empty!

[trail ridge]

I don't know what that means!

[spice spade]

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/U5a1a1z/ jk there are a couple

but me either! lol

you can upload to y-full tho, you might be a new branch

(me talking like i know what i'm saying)

[trail ridge]

Maybe. There's supposedly 18 of us on FTDNA.

[tawny abyss]

yfull has me in their own new haplogroup for me from what I can tell, based on a match with a research paper out of Poland

[spice spade]

interesting...

so does that mean ur special or what

[trail ridge]

Special, maybe, but not unique! 😉

[spice spade]

twiddling my thumbs waiting for my U haplogroup to update

https://tenor.com/view/sad-alone-frown-spongebob-gif-14241166

[drowsy crag]

🤝 for H

[spice spade]

i got an email but the beta badge is missing now

for people who have gotten it, did you go anywhere specific? do you only have the classic badge on the right sidebar, or is the beta one there too? very strange, i wonder mine is still calibrating

[spice spade]

my beta badge is back, but i have the same haplogroup as my classic one now. not sure why since i received a more detailed subclade when i submitted to GenBank

[tawny abyss]

Hah! 🙂 In my case though it just means that research paper kit was a close enough match to move my haplogroup closer to current than any match I've gotten to date with ftdna, I think

I'll need to start comparing though

The yfull age estimate for my match with them is pretty wide, like 900 years ago till 80 years ago. (Correction: the range is 3,000 years ago to 50 years ago, their estimate is 850 years.)

[spice spade]

Awesome!!

[warm rain]

I got my mitotree results! They must be slowly pushing out at least H1 right now

[drowsy crag]

I also got it about 3.5 hours ago! H1cu, as @winter juniper got for me yay

I relatedly am curious if the 26 bc is actually close to accurate or not, as one of the distance 1 matches is azorean

(From a different island than my grandmother is)

[drowsy crag]

(Even with a 67% CI it's still a fairly wide range, and the distance 1 matches all aren't exact matches to each other, so I'm hoping one is actually closer, but not much use for me without breaking my late 1600s brick wall in Santo António, or my matches' in Bretanha)

Well technically they may all be closer bc that's just when the haplo formed

Shhhh I mean just that I hope the connection is later bc if I could track the match from Santa Maria I might be able to get further

or maybe not bc some of the parishes there are mediocre at best

[warm rain]

My identified haplogroup is H1fo^^+195. I also form a clade with my only exact mtDNA match based on our shared haplotype F5466076. Thus our mitotree haplogroup and haplotype is the signature of my ancestor, and Fille-du-Roi, Marie Faucon dite Lafond (1644-1709) from the small French coastal village of Hiers

I'm certain that anyone with H1fo^^+195 & F5466076 will be descended from her 😆

I do have a 1-step match with H1fo^^+195, but the haplotype is F8281628. Thus the maternal lines likely connect well over 1000yrs ago. Probably still in the same region of Western France, but who knows.

[dark osprey]

I just went through my friend's Ancestry file and fount out she is R6b2b1

[jade tangle]

yay

[jade tangle]

i have a lot of 0 distance/exact matches but idk if i should try to find where we link up because

[shadow portal]

You might have a direct maternal line linking up much closer, though

1500-1600 might be much more feasible

[drowsy crag]

Oooo that's a lot younger than mine is

[jade tangle]

true! i was feeling a bit deflated before i thought about it more 😄

[drowsy crag]

Also @jade tangle where was your direct maternal line from again? (I am slightly jealous of having a lot of distance zeros😆)

If it is Virginia I am no longer jealous 😆

[jade tangle]

i lose the track in central NC and several other exact matches have their furthest known maternal ancestor there too so i was trying to see if we linked up

[drowsy crag]

(My 3 distance zeros end up:

1. In a neighboring freguesia
2. With my line
3. In Brazil with some Vasconcelos ca 1700)

My distance 1 matches are all not identical to each other but 1 is Galician, 1 goes to Pinar del Rio in Cuba, another is from a different island in the azores, and another is Brazilian but useless

(No tree and the contact info is customer service email for genera😆)

[shadow portal]

Me:
No distance zero.
One distance 1 match from Finland

[dim mesa]

Pinar del WHAT

DM me that person’s tree

IMMEDIATELY

🗿

pls

👀

[drowsy crag]

Uhhhh lemme get info

[jade tangle]

... 👀 ... me: 13 zero distance 😄

[drowsy crag]

Ah I confused two of my Cuban matches together

[tawny abyss]

6 exact matches, with countries of origin listed as: Germany, Ukraine, Norway, England, Poland, Slovakia

My own maternal line came over from Hesse-Darmstadt to the US mid-1800s.

[spice spade]

I have two exact matches, one with the same haplotype. Both have maternal lines from far east East Prussia!

[tawny abyss]

Nice! Looks like 5 of the 6 exact matches match me on that as well: U5a1a1da for haplogroup and F9721963 for the haplotype.

[spice spade]

wow that's a good number!!

will you be able to trace it back any further to find the connection?

[tawny abyss]

Might be interesting to try! Would mean doing some further research in Hesse-Darmstadt, I haven't made it very far there for my lines as of yet.

[spice spade]

Awesome, I hope you can!! Hopefully Germany's good record-keeping will come in handy for ya

[drowsy crag]

part of why i got an mt test before a y is i was hoping azores would be exactly the same way 😆

[spice spade]

....and i assume it was not? 😂

[drowsy crag]

sadly the parish my maternal line ends in has a giant gap in the time she was born, and her marriage is in a short gap of most of the 1720s

[drowsy crag]

oh it would be if I could get the marriage index someone made of the older than currently extant stuff for Bretanha, as two of my mtdna matches (one full sequence one hvr1 and 2) go back to there

either way if i break one of their brick walls for that it'd probably reach to the late 1500s (a century earlier) or something like that hopefully

earliest extant marriage in that index (made in the early 1700s and copied out again later by a different researcher in the early 1900s but FS only has a copy of the baptism index) is from like 1569

and for Santo Antonio (where mine is, neighboring parish) earliest marriage is like 1621 or something in that range

for Bretanha in theory it could get me to folks mentioned in Saudades da Terra, which will get me even farther back, to however far back Gaspar Frutuoso could reach in the late 1500s when researching

if the family in question is named there

which is a very major if

[drowsy crag]

i'm gonna check through the baptism index again some time though, as I suspect it'll confirm my hypothesis that the Theresa de Frias married to Brás de Medeiros who was the mother of the Maria de Medeiros who married Gonçalo de Oliveira in Bretanha in 1742 is the same Theresa as the Teresa de Sousa who was married to Brás de Medeiros in Bretanha whose kids were born in the early 1700s in Bretanha and such

(I don't see why they wouldn't be but i wanna check through the baptisms in the 1690-1720ish period, just to be safe.)

[spice spade]

fingers crossed you'll find something!! that's great they go back to the same area, hopefully it'll make your life easier

[drowsy crag]

yeah! all in a very small area except for brazilians

so def hopefully in the endogamy mess vs related before then

[drifting lava]

I’d assume it’s rarer for me to have the H2a2a1 as I’m not European from my moms side

[spice spade]

what's the ancestry of your direct maternal line?

[drifting lava]

Ohh Pakistani my mom is

From both parents

[spice spade]

Oh interesting! I hope someone here will be able to more specifically answer your question then -- I'm not too familiar with South Asian ancestry/DNA

[drifting lava]

What would H2a2a1 be mainly found in

Like country’s

Cuz I’m hearing Levantine or Jewish or European so it’s confusing

[spice spade]

I think that's the thing -- the tree indicates it's found all over https://www.yfull.com/mtree/H2a2a1/ Morocco, Kazakhstan, Spain, UK, Poland, etc.

[drifting lava]

Where did it originate in may i ask ?

Or is that unknown

[spice spade]

I'm not sure the answer to that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_H_(mtDNA)

[ashen whale]

There's a SNP tracker website I always use.
https://scaledinnovation.com/gg/snpTracker.html
But I guess we shouldn't discuss a lot about that, as it's a lot of ancient DNA right?

[warped olive]

We do not allow discussions about ancient DNA in this server, including services and calculators that primarily or specifically deal with ancient DNA. For more information please refer to the pinned post in #ethnicity-estimates.

[hearty swift]

@blazing compass

[ashen whale]

If I want do to the Y-DNA test, should I just wait until I do the Big test (/until I put away enough money)? I am thinking if I should do the small Y DNA test first, but thinking that might be wasted money.

[drifting lava]

Small so u get an idea of the haplogroup and if its interesting and willing to go big for more detail why not

[shadow portal]

What is the purpose of your test? STR testing can be used to test a lot of direct paternal line hypotheses, a SNP test would often not be necessary to provide proof.

[stoic elm]

I'm curious how common my situation is. My closest "Y-DNA relative" (apart from my brother and nephew) is a possible 8C, excluding any unknown NPEs. I have "mtDNA cousins" up to the 3C level but beyond that I have none until at least the 9C level. This has to be pretty unusual right?

[merry raptor]

I have a Y test with 0 matches at any level. None of my 3 Y tests have anyone at 0 distance, and I have no idea how any of the matches are related because it’s going back 1000+ years

So to me, you’re very lucky to be able to place any matches!

My MTDNA test has 2 at 0 distance, but the split is thought to have happened in 400 BCE so no placing them either

[stoic elm]

To be clear I'm talking about both matches and direct paternal/maternal matches combined. There is no one alive today that could be a closer match, whether they have already tested or not.
My possible Y-DNA 9C is at a distance of 3/37, and I too have two mtDNA matches at 0 distance but they are at least 10C, probably more than that.

[drifting lava]

I got J1

[drowsy crag]

Basically what Willem said, but I would also say go for a 37 or 111 before a big y first, it might be you have no close matches or something like that, and a big y is, um. A large investment.

[lilac bloom]

Is anyone good at Middle Eastern haplogroups as I’m curious as to whether which group is exactly J-CTS5368 because most people from the J2 haplogroup are Canaanites, Assyrians, Jews and some Arabs but they’re mostly mainly J1
🤔it’s making me abit confused since my Ashkenazi cousin has that haplogroup and my cousin from dads side who has Arab lineage but is Lebanese and the family is mostly Amorite, aramean and Canaanite interms of relation to ancient populations

[winter juniper]

Numerous populations. J-CTS5368 is also found in Moroccan Jews, Algerian Jews, Anatolian Greeks, Kurds...

[lilac bloom]

Ah I see 🤔 which group do you think it mainly belongs to

Because those populations split at some point I mean Assyrians, Canaanites and Jews aswell as Arabs

Also my Ukrainian grandma with no knowledge of Asian ancestry her maternal group is c4a1 is it possible that this happened due to genghis khan and his followers or just mixing at a certain period of time

My grandpa is Crimean Tatar so he has some Mongolian ancestry but c4a1 coming from my grandma was weird and unexpected

[winter juniper]

Too far back in time to say much specific. It is also called J-CTS12238. https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/J-CTS12238/story says "The man who is the most recent common ancestor of this line is estimated to have been born around 16,000 BCE."

[lilac bloom]

Scary lol

[winter juniper]

Ukrainians did not have any intimate relations, whether forced or not, with Mongol invaders, that resulted in any DNA inheritance.

[lilac bloom]

I see

I’m related to avars thru my grandpa I assume

The c4a1 from grandma seems to be more of a really old thing I guess

It’s a very rare haplogroup to have in Ukraine or in general so it was pretty weird

As I expected H

[winter juniper]

Ukrainians also have mtDNA C4b1"14 and G2a4

[lilac bloom]

You seem very knowledgeable! I’m only on the surface level of all of this I guess

How did you study all that ?

[winter juniper]

Another eastern mtDNA Ukrainians have is G3a.

[lilac bloom]

And is there a study related to this in Uni that you’ve did perhaps? I’m interested in it

[winter juniper]

I didn't have formal study in genetics in a university.

[lilac bloom]

Any sources you recommend?

[winter juniper]

YFull MTree, FamilyTreeDNA MitoTree Discover, Dr. Ian Logan's website...

Please be aware that discussions of a n c i e n t populations is not allowed in this Discord.

Such as extinct groups like Canaanites and Amorites.

....Roberta Estes's blog...

[lilac bloom]

Ah okay thank you

[heavy sedge]

Even though we only allow discussion based within a genealogical timeframe. The bot trigger isn’t for the word ancient.

[deft mirage]

Is there any value in a big Y test for someone with limited knowledge of their paternal branch due to record limitations? I can only go back to early 1800s due to... Ireland. But at the same time, my Dad's getting old and I don't want to miss the opportunity to test him if it could theoretically be useful someday

[merry raptor]

I say go for it (at a lower level) and upgrade later if there’s anything interesting

If he’s Irish on his mom’s side too, you could do an MTDNA as well

[spice spade]

what would indicate "anything interesting?"

[merry raptor]

Given that it’s Ireland, if you can find a surname that’s well-represented and matches at low distances, in theory you can work out a larger tree

And given that I’m almost positive this is Donegal 😆 I’ve been finding some really interesting/unique data that might be able to build out a tree more

I’ve got a Donegal family reunion coming up in a few years, and I’m working with the organizer to build a big tree that all 200+ people in the Facebook group are going to (hopefully) contribute information and stories to. Between that, the new information I’m finding, and working with au/Y/MT DNA, I’m a lot more hopeful about Donegal research in particular than I’ve been in a long time

[spice spade]

Awesome, Kelly!!

[deft mirage]

You got it in one.

[deft mirage]

Can you do that? Upgrade from a lower level without having to physically re-test?

[merry raptor]

Yep! All of my tests have started out at the Y-37 level

It’s not cheap to upgrade (about $300 on sale), but I think it’s worth at least doing the lower level test. You can also order MTDNA from the same test without retesting, as far as I know. (I think @hearty swift might know more?)

Her or @jade tangle

[deft mirage]

Ah ok, that was going to be my next question - can you upgrade while taking advantage of the sales 👀

[merry raptor]

The sale price is only like $20 off :/ but yes, you can!

I think, in total, it costs more to upgrade later on, but if you’re not sure whether it’s going to be necessary, I would do it this way

(If anything, I think Y and MTDNA tests are more helpful if there’s a lack of records like in Irish research. It opens up more possibilities instead of there being a dead end after the records stop.)

[hearty swift]

I know nothing

[merry raptor]

My memory? Failing me? Surely not 😂

[hearty swift]

You and me both!

https://tenor.com/view/too-bad-i-dont-remmeber-either-i-dont-remember-forgot-cant-recall-gif-15096781

[earnest pewter]

Did someone say can't remember

[dim mesa]

Most of the people who test at the Big Y level are from British Isles or from former British colonies, so I think there is a good chance it could prove useful in your situation

I did it bc my male line is from Betanzos, an area of Spain which historically received Irish migration, and I have far more British & Irish matches than Spanish ones

[drowsy crag]

How close are the British and irish ones out of curiosity? 👀
I only have an mt test but I see more random Scandinavians and such at 2/3 steps on that than British folks

even then at 2 steps it's just. A super random assortment of places

[dim mesa]

900 BCE common ancestor for the closest ones 💀💀

[drowsy crag]

😭

Do you have useful spanish ones at least?

ca 1500 random Fernandez time

[carmine pasture]

Is Y-haplogroup Q1a1 usually found in europe? I'm not quite sure as to how this works

[dim mesa]

Nope sadly : (

Man I just wanna find my great great grandfather’s bio dad

[naive shard]

imo looks mostly central asian with a few lineages in europe due to historic migrations of huns/avars/turks.

do you have ancestry from somewhere in europe with ancestry from central asia?

[heavy sedge]

Have you taken an autosomal test?

[carmine pasture]

My paternal lineage is only hungarian

[naive shard]

that's pretty cool since hungarians autosomally dont really have any trace of their origins from central asia but your Y-DNA is some sort of legacy from those uralic speaking ancestors

[dim mesa]

Yea and so have my dad & his siblings. We have a cluster of matches through that side and I actually have a pretty good idea of who the man was. I just need to confirm with Y-DNA testing because based on the autosomal data, it could be him or a close male relative of his (father, brother, uncle, nephew, 1st cousin)

[naive shard]

if you only know you are Q1a1 i'd say you have 90%+ chance of being here:

https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/Q-YP789/tree

[shell magnet]

What is the "Big Y BAM file", and is it useful? I see its not included if you upgrade to Big Y-700

[tawny abyss]

It's not included by default anymore even if directly ordering Big Y-700. A while ago it was default included, but they split it out - I think making the Big-Y a bit cheaper (could be wrong on that point), but still giving the option to pay for the file if you want it. Similar in usefulness to raw data download from Ancestry or 23andme, mostly for use with other services unless you know how to and want to analyze the data yourself. It is a very large file though since the Big Y is a much more detailed test than the Ancestry or 23andme tests, it's just the Y of course though.

Correction for my info, Big Y BAM isn't that large (Y isn't large), I was offhand thinking of WGS testing heh. The rest of the info should still be good.

[naive shard]

only useful if you plan on uploading your Y-DNA data to yfull. most of the time not required, as FTDNA has the biggest customer base. but sometimes the yfull tree might have potential better matches that came from people uploading Y-DNA from different services like Dante/Nebula/yseq etc.

[tulip terrace]

how long does it take for FTDNA results to arrive for the uploaded version?

[merry raptor]

If it takes more than 2 weeks, contact them. I think they quote 5-7 days

[stoic elm]

What results are you expecting? I don't think you can get MtDNA or Y-DNA. Autosomal yes, X-DNA maybe (probably). Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this.

[drowsy crag]

Ftdna will tell you if you share x dna with someone yeah! It'll show up in your chromosome browser. (And be mentioned in results for matches)

It'll show you a really basic y too if you have a y haplo

(Will process later than upload I think)

[stoic elm]

This is true for their own kits, is it also true for uploads? I thought uploads generally don't contain the Y-chromosome.

[drowsy crag]

My Dad's has one! It won't show to your matches is the thing though

[stoic elm]

Oh cool, where's he uploaded from?

[drowsy crag]

An ancestry test! My vovó's is also from there but she has no y to get

None of her matches on ftdna have her paternal line on them for their paternal line too so RIP

[stoic elm]

Neat. I'm tempted to upload my ancestry kit to see if I get the same Y-haplogroup

[drowsy crag]

My Dad's one he got is like. 2000ish years older than the one I got from my ftdna kit, fwiw

Lemme check the exact haplos

R-P312 for him and mine is R-FGC21124

Oh

That's nearly 3000 years older oops

But yes 10 steps further back

[stoic elm]

Yeah just checked it, that's a big difference but same branch. I wonder if they use Y SNPs from ancestry or they somehow manage to guess it based on autosomal DNA.

[drowsy crag]

Ancestry has some but not many snps for y iitc

*iirc

[stoic elm]

Thanks, I may need to try to read my file to see if there are any interesting ones. I only have Y-37, but I also have no living Y-relatives for as many generations as I have researched.

[drowsy crag]

😭 to no matches

I have 2 others with the same direct paternal ancestor as me on ftdna alone

One has a y 37 other doesn't

Without checking I will say with decent confidence the common ancestor is in the 19th century

Could be one generation into 18th for one

[stoic elm]

That's pretty cool, I might have an 8C, he has Y-500 but it's too much money for me

[drowsy crag]

Ooooooof lot of money yes

Does his connection check out on paper at least, in addition to y 37 matching?

[stoic elm]

Almost, it's at my very end of the line. One source suggests his end of the line is the son of mine.

I should probably do the research, it's been a long time since I did and I was very novice back then

We're only at 3/37 though

17th century, so it's not super easy to confirm

[drowsy crag]

Yeah very fair

[tulip terrace]

Upload results from ancestryDNa

[stoic elm]

So you can expect a rough Y-haplogroup based on whichever SNPs is in your file. See what @drowsy crag was saying above.

[tulip terrace]

Your dad has an uploaded version?

[drowsy crag]

Yes!

[tulip terrace]

How long did it take to see haplogroup resuls? 3 days?

[drowsy crag]

Well, both his and my tests were uploaded before they gave results to everyone vs just y testers soooo

Technically several months 🤣

[tulip terrace]

I got mine in a couple days

[tulip terrace]

Do I have to do smt for matches to show?

[drowsy crag]

Nice! When did you upload? They added the free haplos several months ago

[drowsy crag]

Show their haplos? No, if they don't have a test from ftdna they won't show a haolo at all

[tulip terrace]

Oh I paid for it a couple years ago for like 20 dollars

[drowsy crag]

*haplo

[tulip terrace]

So if a relative doesn’t test with ftdna, they won’t show up as a match?

[drowsy crag]

For haplo no match yes

[tulip terrace]

Damn

[drowsy crag]

If they just have autosomal and not y they also won't show as a y match

Annoying bc I wanna see my.own y matches lmao

[tulip terrace]

I always thought that my matches on ftdna were mostly uploaded tests

[drowsy crag]

But you can still match autosomally to uploaded tests if unclear!

[drowsy crag]

A lot of autosomal tests there are uploads yeah

[tulip terrace]

Will my female relative still be able to get her y dnahaplogroup through autosomal upload? (From around 4,500-5000 years ago or so) (mine is R-P312 which is very broad)

[drowsy crag]

Unless she's intersex and/or trans she presumably shouldn't have one. (Although admittedly a good chunk of folks with some intersex condition, e.g. androgen insensitivity, don't know they have it)

As women are supposed to inherit two x chromosomes, not an x and a y

[tulip terrace]

Dame, so nothing will show at all?

I’m a bit confused

But will it show her mtdna instead?

[drowsy crag]

She doesn't have a y haplo to test!

[drowsy crag]

Annoyingly no

I would love a free basal letter from them even though

Give me even more H1 lines 👀

[tulip terrace]

Fuck

They should at least show mtdna

[drowsy crag]

Your matches might have tested their mtdna though

I like scouring through mine for anyone who shares a line in either endogamy mess

[tulip terrace]

The person I am talking about is my half aunt

[drowsy crag]

I've been lucky a few times, e.g. someone shares like 17 cM with my dad on a line that's their direct maternal line so I got that ancestor's mtdna from that, Awhatever

Some random Sánchez Navarro

[drowsy crag]

Half which side? If it's your maternal grandmother's she's gonna share your mt haplo, if not you need to either check her matches or buy her an mt test to get the haplo (or use...Morley? Iirc the name of the thing thst guesses mtdna haplo)

[tulip terrace]

She’s my moms half sister (they share the same mother but not the same father)

[drowsy crag]

Ah, yeah you and she habe the same mt haplo then

[tulip terrace]

So what do you suggest?

[drowsy crag]

For what specific

Ally

If you want your mt haplo, either of you or your mother all could get it by doing an mtdna test

[tulip terrace]

Like is there anyway to find out the haplogroup of her father or should we just look at her matches?

[drowsy crag]

Yeah look at her matches for anyone who has her father's ditect paternal line for her own, she shouldn't have a y haplo

*direct

You might get lucky for it might not

[tulip terrace]

I shall try

Btw

Were you the one who said somebody in your family had r-p312?

[drowsy crag]

Yes

My paternal line (and thus my dad's also bc his result too) is basque ftr

[naive shard]

interestingly i have multiple male kits uploaded on FTDNA and none received a haplogroup. i know some friends that uploaded that got a haplogroup, and others that didn't. im not sure why a significant % of autosomal transfers dont receive the haplogroup

[tulip terrace]

fully basque or no?

[drowsy crag]

...huh that;s werdi then actually

the random advertizing email back last year said everyone would get it

[drowsy crag]

who is the fully basque in reference to here

my dad or just the line

my line yes basque back somewhere my dad no

[tulip terrace]

your fathers male line

[drowsy crag]

somewhere pre mexico it was basque at least bc the surname is extremely basque

my surname line which I don't have a haplo for bc npe (I have it autosomally still yay endogamy mess) is also basque lmao

[naive shard]

yeah, i am not sure... we noticed that J2a uploads have a higher % to not receive the FTDNA haplogroup prediction for some reason. 🤷‍♂️ i wonder if its just a coincidence (low sample size) or their prediction algorithm encounters an error with some predictions and then doesn't end up predicting

[tulip terrace]

my "male line" is like english/scot-irish

[drowsy crag]

ah, nice

my mom's direct paternal line i have a haplo for via some relatives on that side who tested and such who have discussed it online, and her ancestors are the usual generic southern stuff but they come via a quaker family from central ireland 👀
(probably originally english, given quakers)

[tulip terrace]

what part of the south

[drowsy crag]

Georgia (specifically in Warren and Columbia counties then moving west to Coweta and Carroll counties)

before that was in (I forgot the county and don't wanna check sorry) NC for a bit and before that Chester, PA, and before PA was in Meath, ireland

[tulip terrace]

oh my grandfather is from northern kentucky with lines from north-eastern kentucky/or central

[tulip terrace]

Kentucky is southern but northern kentucky is where german starts to pick up a bit

[drowsy crag]

SOMEWHERE in my FAN in Natchitoches stuff i have a random german immigrant to KY

[tulip terrace]

although this is more like in new port and those surrounding areas, a lot of areas in the northeast of kentucky still have a anglo/celtic majority

[drowsy crag]

...this was in nasvhille not ky oops

[warm rain]

My YDNA group has a new person getting a Big Y-700 processed, and they are relatively close to my branch of the YDNA tree by the looks of it!

Their documented male line comes from Morrisons who lived in Knock and Branahuie on Lewis, which is not that far from where my MacKenzies are in Tong/Aird Tong and Back

Depending on where they end up, it could form a new clade including me. It would also decrease that time gap of when my paternal line switched clans from Morrison to MacKenzie

Right now it's basically sometime post mid-16th century, which is basically 300yrs before my earliest documented paternal line ancestor

[stoic elm]

Just out of curiosity which haplogroup is this?

[drowsy crag]

@stoic elm

[stoic elm]

Oh that's right, we spoke of that didn't we. Interesting how that's typical European despite the Basque history.

[drowsy crag]

I wouldn't know if it's typical or not ope (beyond that going by everyone who has it is strongly basque surname wise lmao)

[stoic elm]

I was referring to R-P312, I see your group seems concentrated around the Basque Country.

Just thought it's interesting with the Basque language being unique while the genetic history is apparently European still

[drowsy crag]

Ahhhh

Makes some sense ig, they just got there early and never left at all, even if more folks moved in later

[stoic elm]

Oh wow, I did not realize that our most recent common haplogroup R-M173 branched of 26000 BCE! So I might have been completely wrong saying yours is typically European

[languid ferry]

I literally just found this channel. Doh. I'm still trying to figure out more complicated things. At least I got to add 2 haplogroup letters I guess lol

or if i knew it was here i didn't know how to follow it. Worst IT person ever.

[drowsy crag]

Threads are...not very intuitive to find sometimes

[languid ferry]

Can I ask a question about MTDNA? I'm trying to decide if it makes sense to do a dna test through them from scratch or if I should just upgrade the 23andme test i have there with the mtFullSequence ..... or maybe neither.

I'm struggling trying to figure out/get started with mt/ydna stuff

[drowsy crag]

Eh, imo just buy an mt test to go with the upload

[languid ferry]

my maternal line is pretty solid though

[drowsy crag]

It's a lot of money for not much real difference to uabe two ahtosomal tests

[languid ferry]

i could also use it on my dads test and it might tell me more

[drowsy crag]

If you wanna buy it or not it's up to you! Sometimes they're quite useful, sometimes you'll have no useful matches, imo they're best when you already know someone who descends from someone has tested or can buy a test

[languid ferry]

both my dad's mom and dad maternal/maternal/maternal etc and vice versa lines end in the late 17/early 1800s

[drowsy crag]

Are they from somewhere a lot of people buy tests?

[languid ferry]

my maternal goes back to first gen acadia and we already have people that have taken an mt test

midwest branches so yeah i'm sure

[drowsy crag]

Yeah maybe have your dad do one instead if you wanna do an mt test

[languid ferry]

he hated the first test so i didn't really wanna ask him to do it again lol

[winter juniper]

Autosomal transfers from 23andme to FTDNA can't receive mtDNA results without a re-test from scratch mailed to FTDNA's own lab.

but you would want to use the same FTDNA account to place the order for mtFull Sequence.

[languid ferry]

That's what I suspected.

[winter juniper]

just saying that they need a new swab sample

[languid ferry]

thank you

[deft mirage]

Do you know if that's also the case for autosomal transfers from Ancestry?

[winter juniper]

Yes

[deft mirage]

Alright. I'm thinking of buying a ydna + mtdna bundle for my Dad's account, which was a transfer from Ancestry. I'm assuming we'll still see all the current matches from the transfer, even though he'll have to re-test?

[simple sinew]

unsure if thats a proper thread to talk about this but I've uploaded both of my dna files to gedmatch's kit diagnostic utility. they come from different websites
one says I got 0 snps for chromossome pair 23 and 64 snps for chromossome pair 24, and another one says I got 9 snps for pair 23 and 50 snps for pair 24.
I did research and people say ch24 = Y and ch23 = mtDNA? I want to confirm this because it's been days since I've began looking for a definitive answer and got nothing.

[winter juniper]

@wintry widget I'm pretty sure your mtDNA haplogroup isn't H2a2a1 because that's a default haplogroup and you didn't get that result from a direct 23andme or FTDNA test but from using your ancestryDNA data.

I mean it's not impossible that you could be H2a2a1 but don't rely on that.

[wintry widget]

Nah ancestry is accurate uploading to James lick

I uploaded my Granada’s data

Ft dna

Raw data

Brah

[naive shard]

ancestrydna doesn't sequence your mtdna afaik

[wintry widget]

Oh

[naive shard]

23andme and livingdna do

[wintry widget]

What about Y dna

Like do they sequence y halo

Haplogroup

[naive shard]

it does, but not much

so you can only know a very high level haplogroup from ancestrydna data

[wintry widget]

Ohh so I uploaded my ancestry results to ftdna and Morley and got same results

Is that accurate

Or should I take a direct one

[naive shard]

yes, the haplogroup should be fine but usually its so old that its not very informative

[wintry widget]

What should I take for an informative one

[naive shard]

the best is Big Y but its quite expensive. only do it if you're really into genealogy

[wintry widget]

Brah

Any other direct ones lmao

Big Ys taking the Mike lmao

[wintry widget]

Why do they make it so expensive

[naive shard]

its expensive for them to sequence, and they have to make a profit

[wintry widget]

Oh

I’m never gona be able to afford it

[naive shard]

the most cost effective way is actually WGS (whole genome sequencing), but none of the companies are trustworthy

[wintry widget]

would it be accurate tho

Or just not trust worthy in data

Like selling tech

Etc

[naive shard]

its accurate but people end up not getting results at dantelabs for example, or taking a very long time

[wintry widget]

Ohh

That’s still expensive lmao but when I’m like 18 I’ll buy it

When I start trapping after failing my GCSEs is when I’ll be able to afford it @naive shard

I’ll tell y when I do

[blazing compass]

It's not.

The basal haplogroup (H) might be correct. But the rest is probably wrong.

[blazing compass]

Yes, they do. https://cladefinder.yseq.net will give you an accurate (albeit somewhat basal) Y-DNA haplogroup

[bright moon]

who here has ydna haplogroup q

does anyone have a coupan or a redeem code for big y ftdna

[jade tangle]

unfortunately you just missed a sale on big y, it ended 31 march 😦

[wintry widget]

How much was it going for

[wintry widget]

?

[wintry widget]

Which ancient population brought haplogroup L to South Asia ? I’m reading and some are saying Neolithic Iranians zagrisans AASI hunnic etc

Anyone got an idea

I’m quite curious

Some people saying it originally pamir knot Tajikistan or Iranian plateu or South Asia

[heavy sedge]

We do not discuss ancient dna on this server.

[warped olive]

We do not allow discussions about ancient DNA in this server, including services and calculators that primarily or specifically deal with ancient DNA. For more information please refer to the pinned post in #ethnicity-estimates.

[wintry widget]

I’m just curious on its populations origins

Unless u have some ancient dna servers what I can ask in

[warped olive]

We do not allow discussions about ancient DNA in this server, including services and calculators that primarily or specifically deal with ancient DNA. For more information please refer to the pinned post in #ethnicity-estimates.

[wintry widget]

Because yeah

[heavy sedge]

I dont know of any servers but you can ask somewhere else. Not here on our server.

[merry raptor]

If you have a specific haplogroup you’re interested in, FamilyTreeDNA has some migration maps. They’re to help visualize subclades. They don’t have information about the specific groups of people (and as Littie said, that’s outside the scope of the server), but maybe that’s more what you’re looking for?

[jade tangle]

You can see if they still work - codes here https://blog.familytreedna.com/rootstech-2025-discount-codes/

[devout kraken]

Hi all, I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice as to whether in my situation me or my dad should take the mtDNA or Y-DNA test. I wasn't planning on splurging for either, but won this Discord's mtDNA test giveaway last year, and I can use it as a coupon for the equivalent price of a Y-DNA if I wish (probably the Y-37?), and want to make the best of it.

On my dad's side, both the direct paternal and maternal lines are mysteries beyond great-grandparent level. No cousins closer than 50cm on Ancestry, 23&Me, or MyHeritage. I would ideally like to break these brickwalls (records have been extremely scarce), but looking online it seems that neither mt or Y-DNA tests tend to yield information closer than several hundred years ago, is this the consensus on this server also? His haplogroups from 23&Me are R-CTS1211 (paternal) and U3b (maternal), if that makes any difference.

On my matrilineal line, I've documented it to 1720s Russia (haplogroup J1c7a). They all stayed in the same 2 villages, however, so even if there is an NPE I would expect any matches to be from the same location. Here I'm wondering the opposite, if it would be worth testing for getting information I would likely already know?

Anything 1000+ years ago interests me even less. I suppose my question is, which of these tests is most likely to yield new and interesting information?

[drowsy crag]

Fwiw a y test's matches are more likely to be genealogically useful

Solely bc it's way easier to tell how close or far they are from you, and that mtdna mutates quite slowly

Also oof to no one closer than 50 cM. Where's the paternal line from?

[devout kraken]

Aha, that's good to know thank you - does this still hold true for the Y-37, or do you need to do the more detailed Y tests for any real chance of close (ish) matches?

[devout kraken]

Great-grandfather was an "Alexander Popov" in Russia, returning soldier from WW2, died when his children were young. That's all we know about him :') The few autosomal matches there are that aren't clearly Armenian/West Asian (which accounts for all other lines) mostly seem to be from the Balkans/Central Europe, with a few in Russia. But not pointing to anywhere specific unfortunately

[drowsy crag]

Yes, still holds true! The haplogroup it will give you will be fairly old (e.g. people with the same paternal ancestor with me who took one got one that's like 2000 years old) but the matches to you will still match, if they're only a few steps away they're hopefully a pretty close match

Oooooof to lack of useful info on him😭

Idk how much people in eastern Europe take y tests overall but in general I think more people on ftdna take it than an mt

(In part due to the aforementioned "y is more useful genealogically bc of how it doesn't mutate at a glacially slow pace")

[devout kraken]

Rightt, that makes sense - this is the sort of information I was hoping to get with my original question, thank you!

[devout kraken]

Is it generally worth paying a extra for the Y-111, do you think, or would the Y-37 hopefully be enough to get some matches (reddit is a bit unclear, some comments said both people need to test to the more detailed level to match, but others imply they don't?)

Big Y-700 is definitely out of my budget even with this coupon, unfortunately

[drowsy crag]

Ehhhhh, if you can afford it and want to I guess, I personally would just buy the 37 first but also I'm poor. (From what I understand you can match anyone who took a y test just fine? You both would have 37 markers to match on if you took a 37 and them the 111, just their test will get more detail.)

[spice spade]

Yeah, I think the general consensus is to just buy 37 and update later?

[devout kraken]

Got it! I think I will probably go with the Y-37 then. Thank you both :)

[ashen whale]

Just bought the Y111 test 👀 my oldest known paternal ancestor rn is born 1720. Excited!

[jade tangle]

Congrats!

[tired pilot]

Just thought I’d share that I recently hit the genetic genealogy jackpot. I traveled to a small town in Spain where my surname originates and found someone there with my surname. His family has lived in that town for centuries. I had him take a Y-DNA test, and it turned out we’re a match! We share a common patrilineal ancestor from about 500 years ago.

[dark osprey]

congrats
which test did you buy for him?

[tired pilot]

I currently have his y-111 results and waiting on his Big-y700.

[dark osprey]

nice
how many STRs difference do you have with him?

[tired pilot]

Genetic distance of 7 at y111

[tired pilot]

And he has a family tree that dates back to 1547 in that town.

So his last patrilineal ancestor on that tree may be my ancestor too.

[blazing compass]

This is why we love Y-DNA!

[tired pilot]

It’s amazing 🙌

[steady violet]

with my ydna i found out my deep ancestral connections, up to 15th and 16th century

i-ph908 clade

my paternal ancestors are from southern serbia (novo brdo manipulacity), yet i found out that i have deep connections in todays montenegro (kotor manipulacity, njegusi tribe)

[dark osprey]

does anyone know how I can get this view in Ftdna?

[deft mirage]

Ordered YDNA and mtdna for my Dad. He just messaged that he's taken it and shipped his test out 🥳

[tired pilot]

Looks like an “Advanced Matches” report for X-Match. It’s in the homepage under “Additional Tests & Tools”.

[dim mesa]

that’s amazing news!!

hoping to do the same with my own male line, sadly it involves a very common surname 😭😭

you don’t have to mention the exact town but what region of spain is your name from

[tired pilot]

No problem mentioning it. Town of Cisneros, Palencia, Spain.

[dim mesa]

oo nice

[tired pilot]

I went there with no plan and not knowing anyone there. Took a FTDNA kit with no expectations. Once there everything magically fell into place. I was not expecting to match with this individual whatsoever. Truly blew my mind.

[dim mesa]

that’s extraordinary luck lol

is your last name very common or more rare

[tired pilot]

On a scale of 1-10 with 10 being very common I’d say about a 4.

[dim mesa]

thats fair then

[tired pilot]

Yup, literally felt like winning the lottery. I’m still in disbelief.

[dim mesa]

i can imagine

[tired pilot]

Not only that, this individual also has a family tree going back 500 years in that very town.

Unfortunately, I haven’t connected it to mine yet, which goes back to late 1600’s Seville, Spain.

[dim mesa]

Ah well at least you’re only a century away lol

[warm rain]

That new guy in my YDNA group got his Y-111 results in, and it appears much more likely that's he's not too far removed to my patriline!

It seems he could end up sharing 2-3 of my currently 5 private SNP mutations. Thus, making the connection probably sometime in the early/mid-18th century