Like I said, I'll talk to the other mods about it and see what I can do
#⚓・contact-staff
full quartz
Have you even slept, mate? 😰
dreamy folio
Not in 16ish hours
(I live in Japan)
Good thing I do or else RIP this time frame when america goes to sleep lol
full quartz
Definitely lol, hope you get some quality rest!
rancid python
make me mod I'll help you
dreamy folio
we'll consider you next time we look for new mods
dim turret
Wtf you are not native
Dude do you only exist to shitpost
You can help people regardless of your role, if you are fluent enough. You can see english natives helping each other all the time with spanish
rancid python
a native speaker: "someone who has spoken a particular language since they were a baby, rather than having learned it as a child or adult", and yes, I never learnt English, I never learnt the difference between he/him, I just know exactly how to use them properly. I use English more than I use my other natives, and I can barely read my other natives. I only use those with very close people like family, friends etc. With a stranger, I'd initiate in English.
English is a Lingua Franca here, and especially because of the community I grew up in, where there were people from all around the country, we all had to be proficient in English to communicate. Most people i know attend school, college, and work with English. It's the same with a lot of previous colonies of England.
dreamy folio
We’re going to take away your native English eventually (not until we do what I talk about in the second paragraph), because we want to stick to the system that we’ve set up, being that native English is someone who has spoken it from childhood and speaks it at home. We have no way of judging where the line is between fluent English and “not native but pretty much native” for the case of someone who isn’t native. I understand your definition of native and I understand your argument, but India is unfortunately currently not recognized in the international linguistic community as a native English speaking country.
However I understand your concern for being discounted as a not native speaker, so we’re going to rearrange the roles and give colors to the fluent English and Spanish roles. You’ll have a color very very close to the current native English role, and that’s how it’ll be, and people won’t question your English. If they do, then they would’ve questioned it no matter what or else who cares about them, ignore them. They don’t need your help if they’re not going to appreciate you.
If this comes off as a slight to you then I apologize. It’s not my intention to discriminate against you in particular, but with the system we have set up, this is the decision we’ve made. There’s no way for us to definitively say “you’re definitely at the level of native English”, so we can’t do it. Once we allow one exception, then a bunch of other people will start coming in too asking for the same. Please don’t make me code into my bot a way to ban specified users from self assigning language roles.
rare hedge
That is what the Japanese server does right? That could be cool to see.
dreamy folio
I’ll get some test roles up in a few hours and we’ll start playing with the colors, I’m at work right now though
lusty schooner
looks pretty
dreamy folio
@bleak kettle if you still want to change the color of Spanish native, you will have your chance soon
rancid python
@dreamy folio ok, I understand
full quartz
New colours?? WOOHOO!
bleak kettle
@dreamy folio 
minor condor
✨ pretty colors
sweet heart
@barren mortar prob wanna get in voice general rn
dreamy folio
little cosmos
I can hardly see a difference between fluent spanish and english xD
dreamy folio
between the blue and the green? are you colorblind (honest question)
dim turret
they are pretty different
tulip wing
si la respuesta es no, nano pls cambiá de pantalla o preguntate qué onda 
dim turret
jajaja
little cosmos
woa
tuve que acercarme a la pantalla para ver el azul de fluen spanish
ya, era el flux
jajajaj
little cosmos
listo, no dije nada
tulip wing
me estás asustando
little cosmos
@dreamy folio sorry dude, the influence of "flux" in my screen screwed the colors view
lusty schooner
eso tiene sentido
tulip wing
lo tiene siempre y cuando haya notado que era verde
dim turret
flux?
dim turret
oh
little cosmos
es un sofware para no quedarte ciego a los 40 años
dim turret
seguro
tulip wing
dim turret
para que tu pantalla se vea quemada
little cosmos
na
tulip wing
si distorsiona tanto los colores me pregunto si no tiene el efecto contrario
little cosmos
mejor sigamos en español avanzau
lusty schooner
de verdad ayuda Tams
lo dañino es la luz azul
#⚓・contact-staff tho
vamo' a #🦎・ꜱᴘ∕avanzado
dreamy folio
What do people think of an opt in “notifications” role?
We’d not use it on every post in #🔔・notifications but on some of the more important ones, since we’d rather save @ everyone for things of the absolute upmost important. But for example, I’m going to make a post there soon about changing the colors and deleting a bunch of roles, and I want people to read it but I don’t want to ping everyone
low vortex
I don't think it's necessary since you can just unmute the channel and get the same effect
dreamy folio
That would be true for me, but it seems people don’t read #🔔・notifications
I’m asking this because back when we closed the emoji vote the first time, a bunch of people complained saying they never knew a vote was going on, and that we should’ve pinged everyone. I don’t want to ping everyone, but those people could’ve had this theoretical role and they would’ve been pinged then
tulip wing
but why didn't they know? if they have the channel muted when it's rarely active sounds like they're not very interested
dim turret
I think the thing is, how many people are going to actually get the role, those same people could also not have picked this role and complain anyway
yeah
dreamy folio
I agree with you Tami completely, don’t mute the channel and then complain when you didn’t know that something was happening in there. But they still complained, and this would’ve theoretically fixed the problems. I’m currently leaning towards not making the role, I just wanted to start a discussion about it and see what people thought.
Pupper: if even only a few people get the role, maybe it’s worth it? If it exists and we ping the role and they complain that they didn’t know that something was happening, then there’s actually no helping them
dim turret
I see your point, but we can also just tell them "why did you have the channel muted?, it's only ever used for notifications by the mods"
dreamy folio
Ok cool, thanks for the opinions
If no one else voices any opinions in favor of it, then I won't make it
barren mortar
I vote no
odd escarp
Hello mods,
I am proposing an optional role(s) to indicate Gender and/or Personal pronoun (how you wish to be called).
dreamy folio
Is there anywhere which would have a full list of the genders and pronouns we would theoretically make? @odd escarp
For example, if we just made him/her/male/female roles, certainly that wouldn’t be enough
odd escarp
@dreamy folio I'm not qualified in this area. Like @neat pasture said perhaps we can start with he/she/they?
dreamy folio
But we’re not qualified either which is why I was asking. If I were to make the roles I would surely mess them up somehow.
Anyway, we’ll start by rewording the suggestion as: what do people think of the addition of the following roles: “he”, “she”, “they”
odd escarp
the list can get very long
dreamy folio
I normally don’t like to say my own personal opinion as a mod before the users have a chance to say theirs, but because you said that I’ll add on to it with my thought.
I’m personably against it because it can get very very long and if it’s important enough to someone that they want their desired pronouns known, they can put it in their nickname. Besides, it’s more visible there. That’s why I asked my original question, to which extent would one recommend making roles, which we’ve already kind of answered/discussed so no need to try to answer it again here
low vortex
personally, I feel like the only people who would care to look at a role before addressing a person with a certain pronoun is also the type of person who would simply ask first if no role existed.
neat pasture
^
tulip wing
There isn't even a they in spanish 
low vortex
as in "gender neutral third person singular"
barren mortar
We’d also have the issue of some creepy people targeting girls and trying to hit on them or sending them unsolicited pictures.
Not everyone has the best intentions.
lusty schooner
Seems unnecessary tbh
dim turret
very
raw shale
a proposed spanish they is elle
ive seen some ppl use it but its not all popular
@tulip wing
and also, @barren mortar probably best to ban those ppl if girls come forward with that
dim turret
the people who use it are probably less than 0,0001% of speakers
they like inventing stuff
raw shale
for spanish, yeah, bc its new. but for English, there is a somewhat decent amount of ppl who use they to the point it is becoming common place to say "they" instead of "he/she"
raw shale
eh, i guess whether or not it makes sense depends on where you're from. sure the percentage of ppl who use it in spanish are significantly lower, but i know a lot of spanish speakers who see it as making sense.
dim turret
no one uses them in real life, it only happens on the internet by extremist groups
tulip wing
It's not an actual thing, if you use it most people would think you just mispelled ella
dim turret
people speak naturally
tulip wing
And by most people i mean more than 99%
raw shale
it doesn't just happen on the internet, i can give you a few ppl bold enough to try using it off the internet
that's what i mean by it may vary by location.
rancid python
Hey mods sorry for annoying but is there a possibility that I can get the image for the 
dab emote
The one that's on this server
dim turret
pro tip: you can right click any emoji and select "open link"
and you get the full size version on your browser
lusty schooner
Elle es un buen persone
lusty schooner
Ignorándonos :(
dim turret
🇮🇹
barren mortar
We do @raw shale
We’ve had to ban people like that before so that’s why I’m worried that would happen way more
lusty schooner
People don't report it enough
Which makes the problem bigger
Use ;report people
barren mortar
If you have something to report, please use the ;report command!
lusty schooner
It's anonymous
barren mortar
Yea
dim turret
;report pupper
lusty schooner
It is for me
lusty schooner
Whaaa
dim turret
;report @lusty schooner
barren mortar
The report mention command is used by mods only
dim turret
;report
lusty schooner
Don't need to mention anything
dim turret
nothing happens
rancid python
I think that you should make an announcement telling that ;report can be used
barren mortar
lusty schooner
To me it does
rancid python
Well, there could be another one for reminding
dim turret
only cool people read them
is it just ";report"? it's not working for me
I'm trying in #🤖・general-bot
barren mortar
Message @dreamy folio about it
rancid python
Ok it works for me
It's a cool feature lol, the bot DMs you
I honestly havent seen anything on this server worth reporting to mods
dim turret
k I asked ryry
rancid python
Except for maybe once
rancid bloom
cloud lagoon
ok initial tests of ;report leave me very confused because it works perfectly for me 
it's just pupper it doesn't work for lol
dreamy folio
ok
rancid python
@dreamy folio can I make a test report
dreamy folio
i figured out the bug 30 seconds ago
try it
feel free to send a message or go into the report room to the end
dont cancel it
dreamy folio
yes thanks
rancid python
Np
dreamy folio
we'll get on banning that person in your report asap
thanks for the info
the secret tip
odd escarp
@dim turret @tulip wing regarding gender neutral/inclusive pronouns them is just one simple example. There are many new suggestions that are not in the ¨official¨ English language. And while it's true 99.99% of the population don´t use them, if you cross paths with some circles in progressive cities in the US, you will see that people use them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_neutrality_in_Spanish
odd escarp
I don't see how they are different. For example, Zie doesn't exist in English
dim turret
because english doesn't even have grammatical genders
let's leave this channel for messages towards mods
I don't care about this, especially when it's from people who don't even live in a spanish speaking country
so they don't know the situations
astral jasper
Lmao. There are literally trans people in Spanish-speaking countries & there have been. But I'm not here to argue with ppl muting people just because they have stubborn views on grammar, culture, & society.
I just wanted to express that it might be worth deafening the different music bots since some are known for listening to users. I think they generally are listening for commands? But dunno. Seems like a weird & unsafe thing to provide bots with that data.
dim turret
What does it have to do with trans people
barren mortar
dim turret
You don't know any of my views and I muted you because you told me so if you've forgotten, which was good advice because you only ever post shit
rancid python
Just my view: why go through the effort of making the pronoun roles and stuff? If you aren't using their preferred pronoun they'll tell you. It's not a demonic sin to call someone a "he" when they are "she", people could just correct you if they weren't a "he" or "she"
bleak kettle
I agree with the mono
coarse acorn
any bot command that causes a bot to DM you doesn't work if you don't allow DMs from just anyone in the server
so the ;report function wont work when someone has stricter security settinga
*settings
this ought to be kind of obvious but i didn't figure it out for a few weeks
so maybe that should go somewhere in the information about the bot
haughty goblet
Oh thanks for that info
coarse acorn
you're welcome
haughty goblet
@dreamy folio
raw shale
if someone uses they/elle, their decision should be respected. that simple
haughty goblet
Please use the correct channels. The mods will start deleting comments that are in the wrong channel
dim turret
let's get more people while we are at it
haughty goblet
guys seriously
astral jasper
okay.
just to reiterate, cause im not sure if it got lost:
I just wanted to express that it might be worth deafening the different music bots since some are known for listening to users. I think they generally are listening for commands? But dunno. Seems like a weird & unsafe thing to provide bots with that data.
dreamy folio
For the bot not working if you don’t allow DMs, yes this is a thing and there’s no way around it. I realize now I have never actually tested this but if you have DMs disabled and you try to do ;report, then it should message you in the channel saying “please enable DMs”
low vortex
To be fair, @astral jasper , you're using a closed source, free program. Literally everything you're doing is probably already being mined by Discord and sold off to random companies. I think once you've taken the step to participate in discord, then the notion of privacy has already gone out the window
dreamy folio
The chance of some random user recording you is higher than the music bots. The music bots recording every voice channel everywhere (which is probably just music rather than any actual conversation) would take up soooo much storage space on their servers
astral jasper
@low vortex - That's irrelevant.
I was saying that the bots that are in the channel are worth assuming to be listening.
When people interact with Discord, they interact with Discord's terms & conditions. This does, presumably, include the interaction with 3rd party bots.
But where people have less control over Discord's monitoring when choosing to use the service, they do have more control over how they want to interact with different 3rd party services.
Deafening the bots is a no-hassle solution. The idea of 3rd party bots potentially listening to others bothers some people. So I raised the issue. If that's really something to deliberate, idk what to tell you.
low vortex
I guess I just don't understand haha. But, to be fair, I have no control over the bots.
dreamy folio
Oh deafening the bots. That part of the suggestion got deleted it seems
I thought you were just complaining for no reason. I don’t think there’s a way though to deafen the bots audio but not mic. You can mute them, or mute+deafen them
bleak kettle
i can make a bot for this server 
dreamy folio
Yes it’s done
full quartz
@dreamy folio Are you guys still planning a colour change?
low vortex
Yes we are
full quartz
Nice, thanks for the response.
bleak kettle
@dreamy folio in my opinion this color would be nice for spanish natives
dreamy folio
oooh vote on a general color for the spanish roles (not the exact below color, just one similar):
lusty schooner
Not a fan of putting Fluent colors above Native colors. Some people think they're fluent when they're really not and I don't think anyone dismisses an answer if someone is not native. The same would probably happen with the new fluent tags.
PD: keep the alpaca role.
dim turret
I haven't seen people dismissing answers tbh
barren mortar
What’s the alpaca role for?
full quartz
What does the apaca role mean?
lusty schooner
It's for fans of the Mod named Alpaca
barren mortar
It’s a given
full quartz
No creo que haya hablado con ella antes
vital ruinBOT
full quartz
Vale, eso explicaría por qué xD
little cosmos
Sinceramente, si hablamos de específicamente del objetivo del server y que todo esté relacionado a eso podés tranquilamente borrar todos los roles que puso ryry en notificaciones. Tema aparte, estaría bueno que los roles que hay sean bien usados, no como algunos users que tienen 50 paises.
barren mortar
Okay this is getting off-topic
little cosmos
por poner un ejemplo
lusty schooner
.iam happy
vital ruinBOT
barren mortar
Ya que decidamos el destino de los roles, vamos a moderar más los roles que tiene la gente
lusty schooner
Fun roles are fun... It will be sad if they're gone
dim turret
el mensaje de nano no lo veo como off topic
barren mortar
Ni yo @dim turret
full quartz
Yo tampoco
barren mortar
El mensaje era a los que estaban hablando de alpaca
dreamy folio
@lusty schooner native roles are definitely going above fluent roles
you misunderstood something
dim turret
for some reason I also understood that
dreamy folio
yeah if you're fluent spanish and other language, then what's the most important to show?
barren mortar
^
dreamy folio
first, if you're not native english/spanish color, you're guaranteed to be other language
so, between other langauge and other language+fluent in a language, the fluency is more important to show
lusty schooner
Other language to promote cultural exchange when you ask where they are from 
dreamy folio
if someone has a fluent color, that means they're other language
dim turret
oohh, that makes sense
dreamy folio
first priority is native english/spanish.
0) native english --> light english color (light blue)
0) native spanish --> light spanish color (light green)
As long as they're not one of those two native english/spansh colors, then any of the remaining possible three colors all mean other language
Three meanings:
- other language + not fluent in neither spanish nor english --> orange
- other language + fluent in spanish --> dark version of spanish native color (dark green)
- other language + fluent in English --> dark version of english native color (dark blue)
lusty schooner
just to clarify, I read this quickly "we want to add colors to fluent English/Spanish and place them over other language" and I thought it said you wanted to place fluent English/Spanish over other languages, like Spanish Native and English Native
dreamy folio
ohhhhhhhh
lusty schooner
that's where the misunderstanding came from
lusty schooner
dreamy folio
cool thanks
didnt realize that
I bet lots of people will read it the same way you do
dim turret
I got confused too lol
dreamy folio
First, we want to add colors to fluent English/Spanish, and then place these fluent langauge roles over the "other language" role for a final hierarchy of native > fluent > other.
Thanks you two
I'm going to sleep then
barren mortar
Despacio
dreamy folio
(Just have to clean my kitchen first)
Oh by the way I started with my bot today counting messages per user
Eventually this will turn into cool stat tracking modules
lusty schooner
can you measure time spent in voice chat?
lusty schooner
would be cool to have a voice chat ranking
dreamy folio
Hours in voice chat in last 30 days
Messages sent in last 30 days
Your most used channels
full quartz
Cool features
dim turret
time to feel sad
dreamy folio
Most active members of the last 30 days
Etc
Right now the bot is just recording your ID and the channel ID you sent a message in, not recording any actual message content
So no privacy worries
Anyway, goodnight
Thanks for all the help discussing server things today people
You help a lot
lusty schooner
dusty iron
No borren el rol de alpaca ni el de colet, significan mucho para varias personas del server
Recapacitad pls
dim turret
no 
dim turret
a chocolate milk brand in Uruguay
dreamy folio
Really?
dim turret
yeah, I only know it exists because of this server xd
dreamy folio
Uh guys
Lol
I looooove chocolate milk, I don’t know anyone who drinks it more than me, but do we really need a role for that?
little cosmos
dim turret
I don't even know why it exists, it was here long before I joined 
who knows the mystery of colet?
lusty schooner
The programmer role is useful tho, I would argue the same about artist 
tulip wing
Why. Almost everyone is a programmer here anyway. And why do you need artists?
dim turret
.inrole artist
vital ruinBOT
dim turret
more than I thought, sorry I didn't expect a long-ass wall of text
delete it if you want
low vortex
I feel like if we bog things down with roles it becomes difficult to see who is actually able to help with the languages, which is what the server is for
some people have so many roles that on mobile you can't even see what languages they speak
tulip wing
Hay un montón de roles que sobran y son irrelevantes para el server imo
dim turret
sí, de acuerdo
dreamy folio
This is easy to understand
This is harder to understand
I forgot which bot it was, either Nadeko or Tatsumaki, but one could make clubs that you can join and you get points for talking while being a member of the club that counts towards a total club score
That could be fun
Make a club for colet, alpaca, etc
It’ll be more fun since I think you can only join one, so you have to devote yourself and compete between each other for followers
It was Nadeko
A name, a description, a list of members, a picture, competition, all you could ask for
So my suggestion is replace colet and alpaca roles with clubs
As for artist and programmer, I could actually be ok with keeping those, since they display real information: “I’m into programming/art”
But let’s give them a good color consistent scheme that separates them from the important language roles
tulip wing
i think roles like colet and alpaca were only made for fun in the moment, i think they could disappear and no one would notice tbh
minor condor
hi I think aranita's having problems playing music
little cosmos
youtube is dead
dreamy folio
Yeah youtube is down right now so music bots won’t work
raw shale
how do you get voice worthy, just add it?
barren mortar
You earn it by just being active in the voice channels and a trusted user of our community
raw shale
you can't be active in the channel without it?
lusty schooner
I was used as the "hard to understand roles" example
okay, I understand
alpaca club it is
neat pasture
a lot of nohabloespañol's roles were cut off on desktop
maybe not the best example, but still
btw, is there no mechanism to stop people adding all the country roles?
low vortex
There's no mechanism, no. That's one reason we want to pare down the roles a bit. It's really hard to enforce a X role limit, and would lead to a bit of arbitrary enforcement. Simply reducing the number of roles can help a bit.
dim turret
The country roles are self-assignable with nadeko, there is a way to make exclusive self-assignable roles, this is, you group certain roles together, and users can only assign themselves one role from the group at a time.
For example, in my server we have 3 skill roles (level A, B and C), if a user has Level A and then uses ".iam Level B", they lose the Level A role and become Level B, it's easy for skill levels because there are few roles and of course they'd only have one at a time.
Now there are 2 difficulties with country roles:
- Quantity: there are probably more than 150 country roles, so if they aren't all grouped together already using nadeko.... yeah, that's gonna be fun
- This is not the norm I think but still there are people who lived in more than 1 country for a time so it makes sense for them to have a few multiple country roles if they want to, Laurens for example: Netherlands, then Canada.
But I think 2. is not really a problem since if someone needs another country role assigned, they can just ask a moderator to add it for them.
Admins/mods with bot permissions can use nadeko and check it out (.h "command" explains each command):
sorry for wall of images x_x, idea starts before the 3 images
haughty goblet
hmm interesting
raw shale
there is actually a person here that took every god damn role
low vortex
Oh wow ok. That sounds like a really good solution @dim turret
dreamy folio
A while ago I actually set by bot to group all the country roles so they are grouped
.lsar
vital ruinBOT
dreamy folio
.lsar 2
vital ruinBOT
dreamy folio
.lsar 3
vital ruinBOT
dreamy folio
Sorry for the spam
tulip wing
Honduras, Serbia and Estonia are in group 0
dim turret
oh wait
one problem that I haven't realized before
activating exclusive self-assignable roles, does it for EVERY group
god damn it coders
tulip wing
?
dim turret
have you read my idea
xD
it means that if language roles "spanish/english/other native" are in the same group, you can only have 1 for example
same for every other group
tulip wing
I did
tulip wing
can't you have roles without a group?
dim turret
I don't remember, but I think they are defaulted to "group 0"
tulip wing
oh, makes sense since there are 3 countries there
dim turret
if group 0 is ignored by the "exclussive" command, then there should be no problem
but I don't know if that's the case
hmm
in my server we put those roles in group 1
maybe that's actually the case
I'd have to test
raw shale
the country roles for south and central america make sense bc spanish dialects
but English is just flat out weirf
weird
dim turret
ok i'm going to test my theory 👓
tulip wing
i don't see what's weird about it
raw shale
and if we wanted to have countries for english dialects youd have to do states too bc English varies by state/providence/even regional
tulip wing
that happens in every country
dreamy folio
Those countries are in group 0 because they’re new and whoever made them forgot to properly categorize them lol
Good luck pupper
raw shale
its very much a societal based language, we have no academy of our language deciding anything
dim turret
nope, group 0 still follows the rule
tulip wing
i still don't see what's the problem with the country roles
dim turret
tulip wing
oh rip
raw shale
going back to meese. if a group in america collectively tried to use that and it became common in that region, meese would be grammaticaly correct to that region and being part of the dialect. societal based @barren mortar
tulip wing
can't you just like... set a limit? like a general one
barren mortar
That's not exclusive to English though
dim turret
a role limit for everyone? I don't know
yeah that happens in every language
that's basically what dialects are
raw shale
going back to the controversial elle, while it makes grammatical sense, it can't be grammatically correct by technicality because the academy hasn't accepted it
that's how my teacher taught that
anything can be grammatically correct in English, just not so much in other languages
dim turret
english has grammar
barren mortar
Anything can be grammatically correct in any language
raw shale
yeah but it doesn't need to be followed, technically
barren mortar
Unless you look at language through a prescriptivist's lense
Languages change and evolve
That's not a trait exclusive to English
dim turret
the thing is, what's natural to the language at the moment
yeah they change and evolve naturally
it takes time
low vortex
Yeah but the word "grammar" has meaning. Saying "anything can be grammatical" is just denying the definition of "grammatical"
dim turret
yeah, I disagree with anything can be grammatically correct
grammar does change with time, but that's something else
low vortex
Anything can be said and understood, regardless of grammaticality, but by definition not everything is grammatical
dim turret
we use grammar every day, we are using it right now
in order to communicate efficiently
dim turret
yeah I'm going to check the role limit thing
dim turret
se desvirtuó todo
dreamy folio
It shouldn’t be too hard to just manually moderate if we decide to
If we see someone with multiple country roles, we’ll just say “hey be honest about it”
dim turret
actually that'd be simpler and better xD
dreamy folio
Hopefully no one ever challenges us on it
dim turret
maybe a rule, don't abuse roles, or use roles within common sense
thick aurora
Last night saw an American enter and he had self assigned an Argentina role
He spoke alright but it was just weird, haha
raw shale
@thick aurora they might have been living in Argentina, from there, or have heritage ties to there
raw shale
weird
neat pasture
maybe he just really liked argentina?
sweet heart
maybe hes throwing off the internet creeps
dreamy folio
If no one else has any objections to deleting roles, we currently plan on tomorrow deleting all the above mentioned roles except maybe artist/programmer
Oops not above, but in #🔔・notifications
I would also be ok with keeping cats and dogs for the same reason
So if you have any final objections say them now (but check first to see if they haven’t already been said above)
lusty schooner
artist/programmer 🙏 Edit: Could be useful to create stuff together, start a conversation 
tulip wing
And what's that reason to keep them?
valid horizon
(also to ryry, I saw the original message but didn't see this convo until now so currently reading the conversation history)
Wait Jesus did Jp leave the mods too
lusty schooner
Too much IRL stuff that I have to attend to now and we know discord is addictive
raw shale
tbh, why did we have a half japanese role in the first place]
seems kind of weird to have a role for one mixed group and not every other mixed group or ethnicity
full quartz
Lots of the roles make 0 sense to anybody who joined in the last year. Most of them are inside jokes when the server was in its infancy
raw shale
valid ig
id propose pronoun roles again but we already discussed how creeps here will be predatory
barren mortar
Now our server is an adult.
Tbh I don't even get the inside jokes despite having joined this server days after it was created.
neat pasture
where did roles like "casi tshileno" even come from lol
haughty goblet
Guys please keep this channel only to message mods if you want to discuss this further please move to literally any other channel
dreamy folio
TLDR at the bottom
Ok roles are gone, I've saved a list of all the members who were in each role in #🤖・general-bot. If you want to recruit members for nadeko clubs, that list is where to look (maybe we should pin it for a while)
I've also just generally cleaned up the remaining roles. Capitalized everything, alphabetized them, and standardized the colors so our profiles don't look like rainbows
We've decided to keep these roles
Notable there is Artist, Cats, Dogs, and Programmer which don't get you into any channels and are only for displaying an interest that can possibly spark conversation. The rest get you into some channel or serve some function on the server I believe.
Next order of business is the role colors for fluent English/Spanish. As a reminder, this is to properly give credit to those people who are not native in English nor Spanish, but still are fluent. Current plan is to go with a slightly modified green native spanish color, rather than the previously suggested red color. While I think a red color would be cool, green works better from a color wheel/complementary colors standpoint (the colors are evenly spaced, see http://paletton.com), and twice as many people voted for green than red.
From the current green/blue, the native colors have become lighter and the brightness of the colors increased, and the fluent colors have become darker
Although we've already asked for opinions and seemingly reached a consensus above in this channel, I hope these messages serve as one last notification that we're going to do this. As I said above with the roles, if you have any last words say them now. The colors will probably be changed in the next 3-30 hours.
Once everything is done, we'll make another official post in #🔔・notifications which the information gathered for the servers. Thank you all for your help and patience.
**TLDR:
- The server roles have now been cleaned up, what is left is in the picture.
- We will change the role colors tomorrow to what is shown in the picture**
valid horizon
I forget, what level of skill are we using for the fluent roles? I originally marked myself as fluent Spanish because I generally can hold conversations and express myself with fluidity, but I do not have native level syntax.
I also forget, can we remove our own roles? I'd like to remove my fluent English role, which I added when I first joined probably reading it too literally and thinking "fluency is a subset of being native", and possibly my fluent Spanish role if my level of skill doesn't reflect the role, which I assume is the case.
dim turret
you can remove them with .iamn
valid horizon
ty pupper-san
full quartz
What is the Voice Worthy role for?
dreamy folio
My personal definition of fluent is indistinguishable from a native, but there hasn't been much discussion on this front yet of what exactly it means on our server
Voice worthy is when mods want to bring someone into a private voice chat for whatever reason. Anyone with the role can join the voice worthy voice channel
full quartz
Thanks, Ryry.
tulip wing
I personally feel like those roles are like "I'm not a native but my level is pretty close" (?)
dreamy folio
As a language learning server, it should be "My Spanish/English can serve as a good guide to learn from for learners"
You should be able to read the writing of someone who is fluent and trust that you are able to learn from it and that it won't contain mistakes
full quartz
Sounds reasonable to me
tulip wing
same
neat pasture
"Indistinguishable from a native" would be C2, while you said earlier that B2 level speakers don't make any grammatical mistakes, IIRC.
Because if you limited it to C2 level speakers, you'd lose about 90% of the people with the role.
And while B2 level speakers might not make any grammatical mistakes in writing, they can still say things that sound slightly off to a native.
dreamy folio
indistinguishable in text from a native
we're not going to test anyone's speaking ability in voice for if they're indistinguishable there too
neat pasture
ok
split swan
Empezamos la sesión de lectura?
dry oracle
Fluency levels are pretty subjective imho
raw shale
yeah
i'm somewhat good at conjuctions and somewhat decent w/ grammar, when to use verbs
but i'm shit w/ speaking, vocabulary, and i struggle w/ comphrension because of that
if u test me based on comphrension and vocabulary, or speaking, i'm A1 in speaking or A2 otherwise, but grammar alone puts me at B1
and even then i have a quite a few mistakes
dry oracle
Yeah, there’s phonetics, grammar, vocab, comprehension, things like slang and idioms
And each can vary in level, so a broad term like fluent is pretty subjective I’d say
valid horizon
Yea, the issue is the word fluency is a measurement with poorly defined boundaries, thereby covering a wide range of skill. Furthermore, as Ryan touched on, when you do get down to trying to measure language skill in general, it too is complicated because you have several variables to measure and try to coerce into 1 number. FURTHER furthermore, those different aspects of language don't have one singular, linear path, so its not just enough to, say, find the most 'complex' vocabulary word someone knows and use that to say ' ok, that's a word from C2 fluency, so they've gotten as far as C2 and know all before it', one can generally learn everything in any order they want (there are some things that have to come before some other things, but when you group those sort of things together, you still get the same problem; 1000s of grouped units of knowledge someone can learn in any order they wish. You gotta find ways to count them 1 by 1 to be precise, although thanks to common learning trends, you can at least check for concepts commonly learned at predictable times after all )
That being said, luckily we do have decent systems for measuring language, so fluency is a fine word to use when you don't need to be precise, and those systems are nice for when you do . In this case, however, I'm fine with the word fluency being used more precisely since it was further qualified with a precise-enough definition, although outside of this context I would hold to the idea that fluency is a broader word and can't be tied down by "the man's" more precise r00ls and definitions.
What the hell am I writing at 4 am
dim turret
Go sleepo
dreamy folio
I count fluency based on one’s ability to be a model for learners, and therefore mainly on their grammar skill. If I look through their chat history on the server and they make zero grammar mistakes (and they’re not sending three word sentences only or something), then I think they’re fluent enough for the tag
If I see pretty much any grammar mistakes at all that don’t look like just typos, then that’s not fluent
Past that, I don’t really care much on how much they use idioms, phrasal verbs, hard vocabulary, etc
full quartz
So if I am understanding this correctly, we'll only have roles for Spanish and English? No more other native role?
dim turret
no, there will still be other native, but the fluent roles have priority, since spanish and english are the focus of the server
so it will show the color of your fluent role instead of "other native", if you have a fluent role
full quartz
Understood. Thanks, buddy.
lusty schooner
so basically Spanish natives are now pink and we add more purple mods randomly so the A E S T H E T I C is constant
dry oracle
Yus, sería buena onda
low vortex
Honestly, I think it would look really cool, but in like two months it would look really dated haha
dry oracle
We could also do seasonal name color changes - orange and something else for Halloween, blue and something else for Christmas, light blue and like a fresh green for spring, and vaporwave for summer (or like a yellow and something else idk)
That sorta thing, we’d be festive
little cosmos
what a quilombo
lusty schooner
coarse acorn
ooh
i don't think that's a good idea practically but it's reallly nice to think about
full quartz
I'd like to get the Spanish exercises up and going again or at least contribute some material for future exercises. With whom do I have to speak to?
haughty goblet
Me
@full quartz
I'm gonna sleep now but feel free to message me and I'll get back to ya
full quartz
Will do so, Laurens. Have a good night's rest.
coarse acorn
are people still allowed/able to have two native toles at once?
like bilingual ppl?
astral jasper
Can I dm someone wholesome memes without consent
dreamy folio
The question isn’t about the memes but whether that person is fine with being DMed randomly anything at all
Anyway serious questions only
I’ll put it this way
It’s not prohibited, but if you went down the user list and PMed everyone links to memes indiscriminately and refused to stop when asked, we would probably kick you
astral jasper
Interesting
dreamy folio
Messaging memes isn’t a problem, but being a nuisance is, so if you can find that balance then you’re good
This isn’t a rule for our server, it’s for anywhere
full quartz
You guys should probably update the 'colores' command
I think it still shows the old colours.
full quartz
dreamy folio
... colors
vital ruinBOT
#621511 📣 https://i.imgur.com/15djfv2.png
dreamy folio
... colores
vital ruinBOT
#621512 📣 https://i.imgur.com/aFLoj1I.png
dreamy folio
its fixed but imgur embeds are broken right now lol
seems it broke part of my bot too which has to do with imgur so I'm guessing imgur changed their API or something
that's troublesome lol
haughty pewter
A quotes channel would be fun
worn lagoon
If there's a role for programmers shouldn't there be a channel for coding?
valid horizon
We had a role for chocolate milk too but you didn't see a channel there joking aside, besides the fact that it's a minor role and not a focus of the server, there's just no need ; we always talk in off_topic
haughty goblet
Yes you can take all your coding stuff to #🍁・general-2 that's kind of what that channel is for :)
dim turret
programmers hang out in there a lot
haughty pewter
ignorado 
haughty goblet
Sorry
Idk if a quotes channel is a good idea
Maybe we can try cleaning up the pins and using that
dreamy folio
There's a popular bot called starboard for that. Basically, throughout the server you can react with stars ⭐ and if a message gets enough stars, it gets put into the star channel automatically
neat pasture
I suggested to the mods of the Celtic languages server I'm in to add the 📝 emoji as a way of saying a user is open to corrections, and they added it.
I hope I'm not stealing your ideas
neat pasture
Ah cool
lusty schooner
🙇 📝
hidden walrus
how do i leanr
low vortex
check out some of the resources in #📚・learning-resources , come into #🐸・ꜱᴘ∕principiante to practice, and ask any questions you have in #📗・preguntas-lounge @hidden walrus
full quartz
@haughty goblet Do you remember me asking you about the Spanish Exercises. I skimmed through my resources and put this together for Intermediate+ students:
2 Ser and estar
3 Stem-Changing Verbs and Verbs with Spelling Changes
4 The Preterit Tense
5 The Imperfect Tense
6 The Future and Conditional Tenses
7 Reflexive Verbs
8 Passive Constructions
9 The Compound Tenses
10 The Gerund and the Progressive Tenses
11 The Subjunctive in Noun Clauses: Present and Present Perfect Subjunctive
12 The Imperfect Subjunctive and Past Perfect Subjunctive; Conditional Sentences
13 The Subjunctive: Adverb and Adjective Clauses
14 Commands
15 The Infinitive
16 Nouns and Articles
17 Adjectives
18 Demonstratives and Possessives
19 Personal Pronouns: Subject, Object, Prepositional
20 Relative Pronouns
21 Adverbs
22 Prepositions
23 Interrogative Words and Question Formation
24 Negative and Indefinite Words
25 Numbers; Dates; Time
26 Idioms, Expressions, and Proverbs
27 Word Formation and Diminutives
28 Common Errors and Pitfalls```for beginners:
1 Nouns and articles
2 Numbers, times and dates
3 Subject pronouns and present tense of regular verbs
4 Present tense of some common irregular verbs
5 Interrogatives
6 Negatives
7 Adjectives and adverbs
8 ser and estar
9 Demonstratives
10 Comparatives and superlatives
11 Object pronouns
12 gustar
13 Radical changing verbs
14 Reflexive verbs
15 Present continuous tense
16 Possessives
17 The preterite tense
18 The imperfect tense
19 Perfect and pluperfect tenses
20 The future tense
Hmm as in make exercises for those topics?
full quartz
No no haha. I already have the exercises. Just wondering if I can proceed with posting them.
dreamy folio
Yes let's get you set up with the exercise posting
full quartz
👌🏿
burnt cloud
If I have a question about Spanish culture (Puerto Rico), would I ask in Culture and events?
burnt cloud
Si, Gracias
lusty schooner
Petition to replace 
with this
astral jasper
Hi can someone explain how the sesión de lectura channels work?
And what is the best way to find someone to speak with?
Gracias
low vortex
Every week we have a session where the person running it picks a story in either Spanish or English, and we take turns reading in our target language. When we mispronounce a word, natives point it out and teach us to say them correctly
The best way to find people to speak with is just to hop into #🦎・ꜱᴘ∕avanzado or #🐸・ꜱᴘ∕principiante , or idle in a Spanish voice channel and wait for people to join
@astral jasper
astral jasper
@low vortex muchas gracias
lusty schooner
Me: Asks for pikawao emoji
Mods: let's ignore JP
Me:
low vortex
Sorry, I don't handle the emotes, haha
tulip wing
En 2 días pasa de moda y nadie lo recuerda.
faint warren
barren mortar
😮
full quartz
These two guys can go too
faint warren
Pewdiepie ya lo paso por meme review asi que pronto morira 
tulip wing
No, they can't go
full quartz
Vale 😢
low vortex
We voted on all our emotes recently. No need to delete ones that have already been voted in
neat pasture
it's treason then
full quartz
Vale, yo me callo hasta la próxima vez que elijamos nuevos
tulip wing
Con j* 👀
low vortex
You can suggest new ones, but until the slots fill up there's no reason to throw out old ones
full quartz
👌🏿
lusty schooner
aaaay
flat chasmBOT
Cookie 🍪!
lusty schooner
faint warren
full quartz
How does the report function work?
barren mortar
Just use the “;report” command and the bot will delete your message and send you a DM @full quartz
There are two ways to make a report. It can be an anonymous report that is sent to the moderators or you can enter a special report channel where you can speak to the mods directly.
When you are done making your report in that room, type ;done and a log of the chat will be sent to your DMs (including messages from mods)
full quartz
🙇🏿
dreamy folio
Please use the report funciton, it's really helpful for us 💦
dreamy folio
For those who wanted the pikachu thing above, check #🔔・notifications @lusty schooner @dim turret @full quartz (pinged the people I saw talking about it)
olive jungle
<@&258806166770024449> can you add the C1 role to me?
full quartz
dreamy folio
But only after successfully obtaining the C1 role
They got the C1 role, then decided to leave
bleak plover
XD
bleak plover
Queremos sesión de lectura
tulip wing
No sé explicarlo, pero "en lo alto" me suena extraño en ese contexto (al menos a mí). Yo diría simplemente "arriba" 😅
tulip wing
en lo alto me suena como más físico, no sé
dim turret
a mí también, en lo alto de la montaña, del edificio, de la escalera, etc etc
dense anchor
Yo diría al principio 
dim turret
también
barren mortar
In the tall
hot monolithBOT
Fix my brother!
sweet heart
They're becoming self aware
silk smelt
Hey @barren mortar , I'm the developer of a Chrome Extension named QuizKlip that helps foreign language learners (Including Spanish) learn new vocabulary. I'd like to share this with the server, but I don't know where the best place to do this would be. Thanks!
bleak kettle
@silk smelt oh nice what did u used ? javascript ?
dreamy folio
@silk smelt you can share it in #📚・learning-resources
silk smelt
Done. Thanks!
sweet heart
We should have a "I'm just starting to learn Spanish/English, where should I start?" guide somewhere, that's a lot of people's first question when they join
bleak kettle
Ye s !
i was thinking about that !
en el servidor de programacion en el que estoy hay una 'guia' en donde aclaran dudas muy corrientes como 'que lenguajes de programacion es mejor', en este caso podriamos abarcar preguntas muy comunes de 'donde deberia empezar' y ese tipo de cosas
y dar recomendaciones y eso
si necesitan un ejemplo puedo mandarles el del otro servidor para tomarlo como una referencia
dreamy folio
on the japanese server we have this
we link it when people ask
and then immediately below that is a ton of resources
so maybe we can make something like this
full quartz
I'll do something like this for this Server. Sadly I'll only be able to do it with Spanish 
But yeah, I'll get back to you guys
haughty goblet
awesome thanks Jaleel
full quartz
💪🏿
neat pasture
Yeah I moved there just now.
sweet heart
Anyway, this is your fault @barren mortar for getting my avatar from the bot and giving him ideas
@low vortex ^
low vortex
seriously, stop messaging me for nothing
low vortex
so?
sweet heart
Ok good mod work
low vortex
you have a unique name that he doesn't have
it's not that hard to tell you apart
I mean, honestly though, what are you wanting to happen?
sweet heart
Alright nvm
foggy sinew
stop banning people for dumb reasons.
bleak kettle
who was banned for a dumb reason
foggy sinew
so many
bleak kettle
hmmmmmmm
dim turret
pubi was banned?
foggy sinew
yup
dim turret
oh I thought he left
bleak kettle
no no
dim turret
he always left and joined back
bleak kettle
he's banned for a week
foggy sinew
there was this guy who was banned for saying something about penises
but he only said it because i started the conversation
lmfao
but he wasnt unbanned
even after i talked to the mods
the mods make decisions off of their emotions, if they don't like it personally then get off the server
but what they fail to understand is that they're not the voice of the people
just because they don't like it doesn't mean everyone doesn't like it
maybe they're the only one
dim turret
well there are rules, and they give warnings, were they banned instantly? weren't they saying something worse?
foggy sinew
there was no warning
it was an instaban
they told me it was because there were trolls on the server and he could have been one
but he wasnt
but they didnt care
I can only imagine being in that guy's shoes
I'd be really upset
but the mods don't care about how those people feel, they're banned, they cant affect the server
You guys don't have a good reputation. <@&258806166770024449>
I've been here a while and I've seen a lot of bs, and I know I'm speaking for many people who are scared to say anything about what's been happening.
People who just want to learn a language in peace, make friends, and express themselves how they see fit.
And if you have a problem with being disagreed with, talked down to, or whatever it may be, i dont care.
Because mods aren't some special people who can't be touched.
If someone argues with me I can't ban them, why should I??
It's an argument, be an adult and just stop arguing if you don't like it.
If someone curses in vc and they haven't been here a while, if noone's complaining then who cares.
Obviously you guys wanna show your dominance so you'll ban them anyways even if everyone else was doing it too.
but my opinion probably doesnt matter
im not a mod.
neat pasture
I mean I'd probably type some message here but then again me and nico were outright trolling the other day so uhhhh
foggy sinew
yeah dont get urself banned
dim turret
I doubt it happened like that, and as a mod you don't have to care about hurting someone by banning them, you care about making sure the rules are followed
if they feel hurt it's their problem
foggy sinew
yeah and they shouldnt ban people
dim turret
if they don't stop yes
foggy sinew
pubi wasnt breaking rules
there isnt a rule for not "disrespecting mods" first of all
and second of all he was having a debate
it's blurry on whether thats even considered disrespect
thats subjective
so all in all
what do you think shouldve happened
btw i break the rules all the time
i curse like a sailor in voice chat
thats not appropriate for all ages
why dont they ban me
dim turret
I wasn't even there so I don't know what happened, but knowing the mods I doubt it happened like that
bleak kettle
there isnt a rule for not "disrespecting mods" first of all
pienso que eso se sobreentiende ...
foggy sinew
not when mods are there though
i curse when there are mods
i curse when there arent mods
they know i do it
they know i talk about all kinds of stuff
thats not appropriate sometimes
but noone ever tells me they dislike me or anything because im nice to people
so
why not ban me if i deliberately and openly break the rules
plus i just "disrespected the mods"
bleak kettle
you should talk with dew
low vortex
Literally nobody is banned off emotions. Everybody is banned after a lengthy moderation team discussion
bleak kettle
hmmmmm
dim turret
then why bother to post
foggy sinew
so whoever feels this way can know at least someones saying it
@low vortex that's half true
neat pasture
Everybody is banned after a lengthy moderation team discussion
oh god now they're going to ban everyone
bleak kettle
do you know there are mod channels where the mods discuss if they are gonna ban someone ?
low vortex
Well, it's been true of everybody who was banned since I became a moderator
low vortex
I obviously don't know about anything before I became a mod
And any time there is a mod that has a particular problem with a user, they actively don't moderate that user
foggy sinew
yeah amaroq but you have to understand that pubi isn't disrupting anyone from learning a language
and wasnt breaking any rule in particular
low vortex
For example, I had a problem with pubi being very disrespectful toward me, so I was purposely not part of the decision to ban him
foggy sinew
im not saying it's your fault in particular though
low vortex
And in fact I'm the one that required it be merely a timed ban, to try to counteract my emotions
foggy sinew
im not singling you out
low vortex
I know. I'm just trying to show that we don't ban on emotions by using the specific example you brought up
foggy sinew
but you know that he disrespected you which obviously doesn't feel good
and I don't think it's right to disrespect someone
but that being said if it's a reason to ban him
it should be in the rules.
just like if I get arrested for something in real life it's because I broke a preestablished law
low vortex
Yep, but he was banned for disrespecting other members and making them feel uncomfortable (some of them even left), and not because of how he treated me
foggy sinew
but I still can't say he broke a rule though
it's a jerk move
but
no rule for it
unless you guys have a secret rule list
low vortex
He did break rules, though
foggy sinew
which ones
foggy sinew
yeH
dim turret
they are members too?
foggy sinew
but where is that
dim turret
it's for granted
foggy sinew
that rule
foggy sinew
respect cultural differences?
low vortex
Honestly, I feel uncomfortable discussing what specifically another user did to get banned with some random guy. If another, more seasoned mod wants to, they can, but I'm so new I don't really know the protocol
foggy sinew
im not some random guy amaroq ive been active here for over a year
ive made a lot of friends here
and i care about them
low vortex
I can get the respect rule worded differently if you'd like. I honestly had no idea that showing basic human decency had to be spelled out for people to follow it, but now that I know, I'm happy to get it changed.
foggy sinew
it is basic human decency you’re absolutly right
but if its not a rule it’s unfair to ban someone for it
bleak kettle
Hmmmmmm jpb estoy seguro que esto no es una democracia 👀
foggy sinew
and like tbh im not supporting his decision to disrespect anyone
bleak kettle
Ya lo han dicho
foggy sinew
its unfair to ban someone off an unspoken rule if there’s a rule list
dim turret
but what did they do exactly
low vortex
I don't think it's unfair at all, but I've asked Ryan to reword it to avoid further "confusion"
foggy sinew
because thats where all the rules should be
that rule should remain because its important but there should be another rule to not allow disrespect or hate speech
dim turret
tbh I think there was a rule explicitly written like that
but still, I don't think it's unfair at all too
bleak kettle
sigo pensando que lo de irrespetar es algo que se sobre entiende y que esto no es una democracia
foggy sinew
y se desaparecio?
dim turret
idk, maybe by mistake when editing
but ofc it's not a democracy lol, not even in a democracy you do stuff just because some guys are yelling at you
there are rules
and people who make sure the rules are followed
and that there is order
low vortex
Maybe. We tried to cut down the number of rules so they were more clear, but it's possible we deleted "important" wording that is needed to avoid people trying to pretend they're allowed to be buttholes to people here
And if a mere wording change is what's needed to avoid this absurdity in the future, then I'm all for it. I'm sure it will be edited as soon as Ryan gets online
foggy sinew
its not wording thoughhh like if it says respect culture thats a different thing
which is also important
low vortex
Yes, I understand your point, and we'll get the wording changed to accommodate you
foggy sinew
😐
low vortex
Ryan lives in Japan, so it may be a few hours, but we have heard your concern and will rectify it
neat pasture
Isn't being respectful of people a given though?
foggy sinew
i feel like u were being passive aggressive and i just wanted to come to an agreement
dim turret
not for everyone apparently
low vortex
This is a.aocial space though
dim turret
yes and you get outed of groups becuase of social rules
foggy sinew
but it's not a rule of the server. just like it's not a law in united states
dim turret
this is not a country
low vortex
But... This is a social space
foggy sinew
i was drawing a parallel chill
bleak kettle
pero esto no es una democracia :c
dim turret
ningún lugar en internet es una democracia
low vortex
Now I'm way more confused about how you could possibly think it needs to be stated so explicitly
dim turret
sería un caos
bleak kettle
si fuese una democracia podriamos votar por las sugerencias
low vortex
So breaking social rules in a social space isn't clear?
foggy sinew
um different cultures have different social rules firstly
dim turret
can't you get outed of social groups by breaking those social rules irl?
bleak kettle
o sea si los mods decidieron banearlo ya esta, nosotros no deberiamos ni podemos cambiar eso
foggy sinew
so if i break a social rule for spain does it mean i should be outted of this server even though its not one for the united states
no
its a social rule
its not written anywhere here
rose canyon
dim turret
^ this x200000
bleak kettle
esto no es una democracia hermano
foggy sinew
si pero eso no me importa a mi
bleak kettle
a ellos tampoco les importa que no te importe
foggy sinew
yo se lo q es justo e injusto
bleak kettle
dim turret
si lo banearon por algo fue
foggy sinew
ustedes saben tambien
bleak kettle
a mi me da igual
low vortex
I'm curious what kind of social rule from one country you could just randomly break in a discord server. It's not like we know if you're wearing a burkha or drinking alcohol
dim turret
para mí no es injusto
dim turret
ok
bleak kettle
son sus reglas, no las nuestras, nosotros jugamos su juego no el nuestro
everyone nada esto no es una democracia
nosotros no interferimos en sus decisiones
dim turret
para mí es una tremenda exageración pero bueno
bleak kettle
para mi tambien, solo el hecho de pelear por algo que se sobreentiende como si yo pudiera llegar a un lugar e insultar a alguien
esperando que no me digan nada
bleak kettle
foggy sinew
si algo tu ves aqui no es justo
dim turret
this is a dictatorship now?
foggy sinew
tu tienes el derecho de decir algo
bleak kettle
claro
foggy sinew
tu tienes una voz compa
bleak kettle
pero ahora que hagan algo es diferente
podemos decir algo pero ellos toman la decisión, no nosotros
dim turret
r/im14andthisisdeep
bleak kettle
de hecho yo he hecho esto que tu estas haciendo ahora y nada pasó porque me dijeron lo que te estoy diciendo 'esto no es una democracia, ellos tomaron la decision y bueno '
puedes preguntarle a jp
el me respondio esa vez
foggy sinew
si, y si no quieren hacer algo tengo que hacer mi voz mas fuerte
dim turret
yelling contest confirmed
foggy sinew
like
bleak kettle
la revolución
dim turret
most likely blocked and ignored
low vortex
I think it's great that you brought it up. I don't think there was a problem with pubi's ban, but I'm sure we will all happily reword the rules. There's nothing wrong with bringing it up
But bringing it up doesn't automatically mean your preference will be the one we chose
foggy sinew
obviously
low vortex
Them what do you mean about making your voice louder?
bleak kettle
un golpe de estado
low vortex
"until they listen"
foggy sinew
um
dim turret
yellocracy
low vortex
What do you mean by "listen", if not this?
foggy sinew
because if i stopped talking we wouldnt have gotten to this point
low vortex
Ah, ok
neat pasture
you should get the number of users per country and use deep learning and ai to come up with the average set of social rules for the server based on the average of all the irl social rules that users follow
foggy sinew
btw @low vortex it was worse before u became a mod
low vortex
Well I know I got brought in during a time of change in moderation, but I don't know much of what it was like before.
foggy sinew
people got banned left and right, some people left moderation because they didnt like what was happening
dim turret
because they banned one of their friends*
foggy sinew
the mods who left were the ones i was more comfortable talking to
i didnt feel on eggshells all the time with them
low vortex
Well hopefully you'll start to see a change in that, and please rest assured that except in the cases of egregious trolling (eg spamming porn) every ban is done through a mod consensus
heady widget
Thanks JPB, and thanks Amaroq for your humble and selfless work here
haughty goblet
hey JPB is we for example didnt have a rule that said no porn on the server. and someone posted porn. should we ban them?
its not in the rules...
foggy sinew
then make a rule
haughty goblet
according to you we shouldnt be allowed to ban that user since "its not in the rules"
foggy sinew
yeah
haughty goblet
however basic common sense would say that that person should be banned
haughty goblet
we dont want to have a rule page with like 20 pages of rules
foggy sinew
laws are made because people did stupid stuff but we didnt make a rule for it yet so we couldnt arrest them
low vortex
It's implied in the "members of all ages" rule. We can't really spell out literally every single thing somebody might possibly decide to do. We have to use "umbrella" rules
haughty goblet
we expect people to use common sense and if they cant do that then we dont really want them on the server
low vortex
It's as much of a rule as respect