hell yes
#dusk-modding
sterile arrow
torpid agate
no more bhops, only backwards long jumps from here on out
torpid agate
I read that in the Mario voice lmao
I used a project64 plugin to grab the .wrl of the castle, and then converted to .obj and then to q1.map
lament ore
I wonder if, once we have custom model support, you could get away with importing a mesh as your level geometry.
This wouldn't work in HL/Quake since it would fuck up AI pathing but I wonder if Dusk could handle it
@torpid agate jesus that IS cursed
ancient depot
Supporting meshes as level geometry is definitely possible, interesting idea
I suppose we could have something like func_walkable
and you could just set a model property on it
alternatively maybe just set a model property on worldspawn
dunno
will 
on it
lament ore
Would definitely make Dusk pretty damn versatile
would also theoretically give you an easy way to get Dusk's main levels into a BSP mapping tool
Although if we're at the point of using models for level geometry, maybe it'd be better just to create the scene in the unity editor
honest stag
yo um can i get a somewhat simple explanation about supporting meshes as level geometry? why is that a good thing? i just have no clue
ancient depot
my concern on using models for level geo is vis
@honest stag you'd no longer be limited to convex shapes
honest stag
ah it's models in levels, but work just like brushes?
ancient depot
kinda yeah
ancient depot
I'm really not sure of what the best way to do it would be though
might need to make our own VIS tool specifically for those cases
as I said, will on it
mortal narwhal
yee haw https://dusk.mod.io/undertow
ancient depot
jesus that looks huge
mortal narwhal
you probably played it before
honest stag
oh wait that's right
mortal narwhal
just an updated version of my factory map
honest stag
is it finishable this time?
lament ore
Wonder if there would be some way to use a detailed model mesh for visuals and a "skeleton" brush map that becomes invisible but is used for collisions, VIS, etc
honest stag
aw yeah i'll give it a go then
ancient depot
That would work for collisions but not VIS
lament ore
Couldn't just split the mesh along VIS leafs?
lament ore
ah
ancient depot
I used it in some early prototypes for loading brushes from q3bsp, but ended up writing my own
lament ore
o nice
wonder if there'd be a way for us to render a lightmap in blender and load it in DUSK
ancient depot
I suppose it's possible
spiral nexus
you can set the texture scale
You can set one globally through options, or texture specific by using the texture tool
@gritty forge press the texture tool on the left, left click the texture you want to edit and edit the scale
if you want to have certain texture scale by default go to Options --> Game Profiles --> Textures and edit default texture scale
with texture scale set to 1 the textures will be the same size in units as they are in pixels, so for example 128x128 pixel texture will be 128x128 units in size
lament ore
Alright lads I'm ALMOST done with this shiet. Any feedback would be appreciated. Once you get to the grappler you're done.
If you see white trees, reload the map.
gritty forge
how do i place dusk props in JACK
honest stag
doooooood i loved that!
even tho i basically played this map 3 tmes
i love the aesthetic
ancient depot
@gritty forge You should be able to manually enter the entity type
The game comes with a file called entities.txt which has a list of all the Dusk entities
Alternatively you can use an .fgd, one was provided earlier by @lament ore I believe
gritty forge
Thanks
tepid python
@lament ore does this one also work with trenchbroom
lament ore
yes
it was just a minor syntax error from something jack supports but tb doesn't earlier, I fixed it
gritty forge
is it normal that i can't see the props in JACK, only red cubes?
spiral nexus
Yes, because JACK doesn't have the models used by DUSK
so what you see is just a placeholder
that being said, they'll show up fine in game so it doesn't really matter
gritty forge
what about stacking objects, like a sawblade on top of a barrel?
spiral nexus
then you're kind of in a pickle as of right now
gritty forge
oh
honest stag
Your best bet is just putting 1 entity above the other
alpine depot
would I put "map" here for my mod?
ancient depot
Levels
alpine depot
ohh ok
ancient depot
lemme get the list of stuff
ancient depot
using System;
namespace NewBlood
{
[Flags]
public enum MountContent
{
None = 0,
Textures = 1 << 0,
Levels = 1 << 2,
Sounds = 1 << 3,
Models = 1 << 4,
Scripts = 1 << 5,
Weapons = 1 << 6,
Monsters = 1 << 7,
Music = 1 << 8,
All = ~0
}
}
oh those too
ancient depot
<content> is any of those, separated by spaces
so <content>Levels Textures Sounds</content>
alpine depot
alright awesome, thanks
ancient depot
I'm thinking of changing how description.xml works later, which is why it isn't more well-documented atm
lament ore
look at this fucking nerd bitshifting
ancient depot
It's the superior way to declare flags
only smoothbrains manually write 1, 2, 4, etc
ancient depot
you sure?
ancient depot
I thought it was just the trigger texture often applied to it that's meant to be invisible
I swear I came across some maps that had the func_ladder directly on the actual ladder
lament ore
that's more just convention. try it in half-life, it'll disappear
unless I'm WILDLY misremembering but I'm pretty sure
ancient depot
will take a look at it tomorrow sometime
ancient depot
AAATRIGGER is treated as an invisible texture
lament ore
I know, but it appears to remove the thing entirely, not just visually
ancient depot
does it do the same with skip or clip etc?
lament ore
Was just about to mention, yeah it happens with clip as well
ancient depot
lament ore
Maybe ZHLT does something different to it compared to ericw and o.g. half-life compiler set?
ancient depot
Maybe?
lament ore
I'll send you some files one sec
ancient depot
Send a BSP my way and I'll take a look at it alongside the other stu--
yeah thanks lmao
lament ore
inside is the bsp, the map, the original jmf, and all the other stuff
spiral nexus
Did Valve name trigger texture AAATRIGGER so it would always show up first in the texture browser?
lament ore
here's the exact compiler set I'm using, the sven co-op fork of zhlt
@spiral nexus probably yea
spiral nexus
because that is totally how I name my files when I want them to show up first in lists
lament ore
not using any special flags during compilation except on hlrad which shouldn't matter in this case
spiral nexus
like AAAimportantpicture.png
gritty forge
is there any fast way to test maps?
spiral nexus
set up fast lighting and vis
gritty forge
it wont load
lament ore
Leave Dusk open, you can "hotload" the map without having to close the game every time
ancient depot
can you do me a favor and DM that stuff so it's easier to find later?
lament ore
yup
ancient depot
cheers
spiral nexus
are you in loading screen loop when you try to play your map? @gritty forge
tender rock
hey so i've enabled dusk_sdk and there's no SDK folder at all, using Linux here
lament ore
Is it Windows only rn or Windows and Linux?
I use a VM cuz I'm on Mac and Mac doesn't get the SDK yet
alpine depot
is a mod turned on by default, or..
gritty forge
@spiral nexus it'll open command prompt and then load some light thing and then stop and not load
lament ore
so I MAY have forgotten that Half-Life fgd doesn't have trigger_secret :y fixed
tender rock
it's basically like Steam Workshop....but with the ability to download the file itself as well if you want to
alpine depot
well is a mod on by default
lament ore
yes but also GoG owners have access to it too
alpine depot
it's not really telling me anything about if it's turned on or whatever
wait
is it even referring to whether or not people can see the mod
or is it referring to something else
spiral nexus
@gritty forge oh so your map doesn't compile when you try to run it?
tepid python
If you just uploaded a mod then it's the mod showing up for other people
gritty forge
@spiral nexus i dunno it just says BuildVizLeafs and stops
even when it says "loaded" it just shuts down and opens two times and stops
spiral nexus
Do you have a BSP file in the folder where your map is?
spiral nexus
do you have a log file in the directory your map is in?
gritty forge
no
alpine depot
how do i turn my mod on?
tepid python
It's on by default
alpine depot
YES THANK YOU FINALLY AN ANSWER
gritty forge
tepid python
Check the dusk mods page and you'll see your mod listed there
spiral nexus
huh that's weird @gritty forge, when attempting to compile your map in JACK, can you check don't run the game and then compile it?
kindred epoch
has the Enemy detection and attack sounds not been implemented yet or is my game broken?
spiral nexus
does the text window just close automatically? (not the console window)
gritty forge
the one where i can check the "dont run the game"`?
gritty forge
it opens a "compile process window" and the command promt
unique ocean
Did I hear correctly that meshes may be able to be used as brushes in the future
If so I have SO many ideas for ghosts and the like
spiral nexus
right, and the cmd closes after some time, does compile process window still stay? @gritty forge
spiral nexus
oh, then that's just natural
the cmd is the programme that is compiling your map
if your map is pretty big it might be open for a while
before you start compiling your map you can select no under run VIS and it'll speed up the process
if you want to quickly check how your map looks in game I'd recommend doing that
tardy charm
So i managed to get Quake 1´s maps running but they are without textures. Any help?
tardy charm
Where do i put it?
tepid python
In the mods folder but not the map folder, check the current mods for a reference for how it should look
lament ore
How do I set the destination of a trigger_teleport again?
oh info_teleport_destination
lament ore
what's the dusk font lads
alpine depot
I think it's called Lycanthrope
spiral nexus
all fonts used by Dusk are in the Dusk directory of the SDK
tardy charm
Is there any way to play Quake´s maps with the music?
because i do own Quake and i ripped the songs from the CD and put them in the music folder but they don´t play
lament ore
no audio anything is supported atm afaik
https://dusk.mod.io/duskywoods-preview
@iron needle @desert crane IS THIS WHAT YOU WANTED? ARE YOU NOT PLEASED?
tight fractal
ive been waiting for this
lament ore
lament ore
yea lol
lament ore
it's just the grappler object
alpine depot
🤔
gritty forge
custom Duak object that when hit it pulls you toward it
Used in one of the wave maps
lament ore
Isn't that just what grappler does
crystal lily
whats it called?
cosmic copper
since euler got removed, is it still possible to rotate objects around all 3 axes?
cosmic copper
ah ok thanks
wise pollen
hi. check out my maps
https://dusk.mod.io/duck-duck-death
ancient depot
yo this looks cool as fuck
verbal peak
Duks
wise pollen
@ancient depot Thanks!
still raptor
Also side note
I saw someone saying trenchbroom seems shady
You can review the code there if you don't trust it
And this is also the reason we'll continue to advocate for it over JACK
The authors of Jack could make any number of changes without us knowing given it's closed source
Not that jack is bad
sharp portal
Hey so how do I link Dusk to my mod.io account? I already have the account linked with steam, but nothing seems to show up under mods when I subscribe to something
iron needle
@sharp portal thst isn't supported in-game YET, so you'll have to download the mods and place them in your SDK/mnt/local folder. They should show up then.
sharp portal
Ah okay
last oxide
I have a question, how can you play Half-Life in Dusk?
iron needle
Load up a Half-Life map!
last oxide
where should I put the maps?
iron needle
They aren't 100% compatible yet and transitions between maps are a bit weird but you can kinda play them
Umm, let's see
So you'll want to make a folder in SDK/mnt/local called like "Half-Life maps" or something like that, and make a folder inside that one called "maps" and that's where the maps go.
Some of them also require extra .wads but I can't remember offhand what those are
Someone in here should be able to help
last oxide
Where can I download the SDK?
tight fractal
check the channel pins
last oxide
Ok, thank you for the help!
tight fractal
MOST of the modding information you can find in the channel pins
if you have any more questions, im sure @ancient depot or @iron needle will be glad to help
iron needle
We're also working on a proper wiki for the future
tight fractal
that too
last oxide
ok.
iron needle
This is all very alpha atm and should be much more streamlined in the future
tight fractal
we want this to be as accessible as possible
sharp portal
Also, does the SDK have support for music?
iron needle
Not yet, but it's coming
sharp portal
Gotcha
tight fractal
just load up ur fave weebshit playlist while you play dusk maps
spiral nexus
JACK not being open source is quite unfortunate indeed, especially when there isn't a single open map editor for GoldSrc
Some poor soul could have kept Sledge updated if its code was available probably
JACK seems to be kind of semi-abandoned too
still raptor
yep
where as the author of TB is openly available, communicative, and is constantly improving it
sharp portal
Idk if this is the right place to report this, but there appears to be this strange bug where weapon sounds have a piece of the beginning part of the sound cut off on occasion. It's especially noticable with the shotguns and the pistols
In fact I think it might be affecting other sounds too
like the flashlight, switches, etc
tender rock
iron needle
@sharp portal yup we're aware of the bug. Thanks!
sharp portal
No problem
harsh swift
also all sliders seem to kill the framerate
lament ore
did u rike my duskywoods map @iron needle
crystal lily
I'm helping with the wiki
lament ore
@spiral nexus Sledge is open source my dude
JACK hasn't been updated in years but it's feature complete and stable so eh, doesn't really need to be
iron needle
Haven't gotten to play it yet! But it looks cool
still raptor
yeah certainly JACK is suitable, but its hard to endorse because of the nature of it
ancient depot
Especially because if we're like "Yeah go get JACK and start mapping", then someone googles it and sees this:
I'm sure that would discourage many
still raptor
we could also, if we wanted to, fork TB to add whatever features we want or need
ancient depot
I was considering doing that for a few features and making PRs for them
But I'd rather get the rest of our actual BSP support done first
still raptor
yeah lmao
toxic forge
btw JACK is still developed, I have access to Beta program on Steam, so new version will see the light one day for sure: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/86434948562550784/671149452870025226/unknown.png
ancient depot
That's a relief to see
toxic forge
but comunicating with XaeroX is another level of abstraction
ancient depot
lmao
toxic forge
to get beta code I had to sign on their russian forum, to just realize I can't post there.. then install ICQ to write to him, then realize he's not on ICQ anymore
so finally found him on Steam
invited him to friends
asked for Beta key
and after over a month I was in
ancient depot
It's definitely an interesting project, despite the little info on it
gritty forge
I want to make new pages on the wiki reee
ancient depot
you should be able to if you have an account
still raptor
despite the original intention
fluid nimbus
well I've made it seymoore, despite the original intention
gritty forge
hehe
Hey guys I have good idea for wiki
Maybe you can write the monster numbers in levels
Like in the doom wiki
Things section
Like this
ivory magnet
No need to have an idea
Create an account and contribute it yourself :)
The wiki should be on auto approve now
gritty forge
Okay thanks
ivory magnet
Ping zombie if you can't make pages after registering and he'll take care of it
still raptor
alright @lament ore we have light proxies now
meaning you can force an entities lighting to be inherited from another's position
so you can use that to offset the position of entities you have clipped into the ground
or, if you get creative, you can use it to create interesting lighting effects on entities by proxying to like, a room outside the map with crazy lighting baked in it
we also added entity parenting for this reason
honest stag
that's pretty damn cool, especially with some colored lighting use
gritty forge
entity parenting
ah yes
still raptor
that has numerous uses obviously
gritty forge
Now I can weld a bunch of boxes together
still raptor
lmfao, well, it needs some adjustment probably
gritty forge
oh btw 500 I seam to be able to create pages on the wiki without being logged in
still raptor
yeah the wiki has interesting perms atm lol
we need to mess with the config
but whatever, just dont go too crazy so we have to clean up a billion pages about like, memes
gritty forge
On my way to make a big john page
still raptor
inb4 jakob scripts a bot to create 30 million pages and crashes our server
gritty forge
Im at work rn so no
still raptor
phew we're safe
lol wow
so when you create a page without an account it uses your ip address instead
now i know where jakob is 👀
gritty forge
Oh yeah ddos my office bby
gritty forge
I couldn't figure out how to add a image
still raptor
bless your soul for the contributions
gritty forge
Thanks
still raptor
it didnt really occur to me that we now have 2 wikis
the dev wiki, and the game wiki
still raptor
yeah thats a tough one lol
gritty forge
270 enemies
gritty forge
Oh thanks that will help me a lot
still raptor
later though, im too tired to right now :P
gritty forge
E1 and E2 has finished
spiral nexus
Are there any entities in Quake that aren't present in HL1?
still raptor
well the monsters, bosses, weapons, etc
spiral nexus
Right
lament ore
@still raptor ayy lmao lights
AND AYY LMAO ENTITY PARENTING
I requested that weeks ago I'm glad it got in
@spiral nexus trigger_secret comes to mind too
gritty forge
Wow I can't wait for scripted sequence
spiral nexus
🤔
still raptor
I really want to see people start to use goofy control sector shit
gritty forge
I can't add new article for Black Philip
spiral nexus
we need quotation template on the wiki so we could have Big John quotes while still having serious article
or leave it at that, perfectly good article
gritty forge
@still raptor a what now
still raptor
gritty forge
hecking doom modders at it again
You can't stop us
"copy properties from neighboring sectors" what in the god damn
still raptor
Its really very cool
still raptor
and i hope adding little things like this will encourage that kind of design
fringe nymph
what would be use in quake/dusk tho
still raptor
like for example the lighting thing above
still raptor
you can control an objects light from a remote area
so if you wanted something to flash red or something
gritty forge
okey so a candle object and a door here we go time to make props flash
still raptor
lol
well eventually we'll have func train finished
it pretty much is
its just like 10% off
fringe nymph
func_vehicle
gritty forge
I dont know if you saw but I made my own func_train, think I posted a video of it here
still raptor
gritty forge
it didn't pull you along tho
still raptor
the positions are just slightly off
gritty forge
Zen
fringe nymph
ill wait for way to use proper full palette for textures tho
still raptor
Well you could use jack and use wad3's
then you get a palette per texture, so its pretty much whatever
fringe nymph
nah ill wait
gritty forge
actually does it replace the textures if I use the dusk wad right now?
still raptor
yes
you could texture replacement mod your mod
in theory
i think
that might be inaccurate
gritty forge
Yeah I was thinking cant I just put my textures in my mod folder
still raptor
honestly no idea ive never tried it
im pretty sure everything uses the texture resource loading component
gritty forge
Oh boi here I go again
gritty forge
Can't find anything about it
still raptor
basically loaded maps just use a completely different texture component
you can texture swap the entities weapons etc but not the maps
at least im pretty sure thats the case
gritty forge
yee
still raptor
i dont have the repo on my laptop atm so cant check
tepid python
there's currently no rotating entity that is implemented yet? i tried some but none of them actually resulted in anything
gritty forge
don't think so 
gritty forge
hello update?
gritty forge
🤔
crude cedar
is that a sheep
gritty forge
No it's the walrus
gritty forge
It's a bed!
long anchor
yeah, i remember quake's platforms
what i don't remember
is
can i trigger them using button?
or it's only when you step on it?
long anchor
nah can't watch it rn
inet's shit
it won't even load the preview
ah
so
- it still works if you walk on it, even if button is assigned
- at the start it's bit lower than it should, also angle seems not to work with it
typical quake plat, what can i say
hmm
did anyone tried to make crusher with func_plat? does it crush you?
sharp trail
im not a mapping expert but maybe try adding other flat wall like surfaces in the rooms with similar but not the same textures so that you have a bit more contrast (if you even want that). I would also suggest making the room less square shaped but i probably didn't see enough of the room to really get a good idea of what it looks like.
long anchor
yep, this room is the most squarish square shaped.
about textures
hmm
not quite what you suggested, but...
i think now it makes more sense cause, you know, it's a shaft, right?
thanks for that
sharp trail
nice!
that was nothing personal btw. I see alot of dusk mappers doing this. Granted the sdk has only been out for couple of months.
long anchor
that was nothing personal btw
ofc! 🙂
i can say that half of this map's highlights are someone else' ideas and suggestions
feedback is cool
😎
cosmic copper
does anyone know a way around the transparent textures leaving "holes" in adjacent brushes?
wise pollen
make a tiny gap between the 2 brushes
thorn nova
Yo Kings, is flip.flac the gun flip noise?
ancient depot
That one should be modifiable
carmine falcon
dusk mods?
huh
Guess It's time to make a weapon mod that uses the MP5 and Lewis gun I made waaay back when dusk was a single map
viscid sinew
Can't make new weapons jjjjuuussstttt yet
you can load maps and replace textures and sounds for now
still raptor
well, it depends one what the issue is
still raptor
its the only one that isnt
still raptor
compact hearth
oh
still raptor
is this it?
compact hearth
okay nevermind
the first level is actually a cutscene
the rest kind of works
but untextured
also yes
still raptor
you must be missing the WADs if its untextured
still raptor
um
theyre included with the mod
in the top folder
put those into your mod folder
still raptor
(the one above where youre storing the maps)
compact hearth
paste them on the mod folder
still raptor
yeah pretty much
i feel like i have the wrong mod lol
these seem to be DM maps or something
idk i just grabbed the first thing i saw on moddb
compact hearth
i uh
got different wads
i found them but their names are different
it's the chapter 1 basically
idk if i'm allowed to post links
on the moddb page
still raptor
yeah you are
compact hearth
ah fuck i should use that one
in any case, thanks for the help
i'm super dumb at this
still raptor
its all good we have zero documentation
we're working on that right now
we'll have some tutorials set up
compact hearth
niceeee, i'll be glad to use them
especially tutorials
by the way if i wanted the sounds used by some mod from HL1, should i just copy and paste what's inside the sound folder to "sounds"
still raptor
wait where ar ethe map on this download
the chapter 1
i dont see them in the .pak
compact hearth
oh ffs
still raptor
youll have to name the sounds to what you want to replace
no i think im the dumb one here
compact hearth
where the fuck did i get them
gritty forge
The ones that do not work were not paid enough
compact hearth
we live in a society
still raptor
hm weird that the sky isnt working correctly
it probably uses the half life wad for some of the textures
including the sky
so if you get that, it should work
lament ore
ay yo @still raptor I'm getting Popeyes Chicken sandwiches ya want one?
And also any eta on ambient generic?
still raptor
ive never had popeyes
ancient depot
I think that's actually meant to be an invisible texture, but the game doesn't recognize it as such without a dummy texture present for it, hm
will look into that
still raptor
we dont really have many in MA
lament ore
Deprived living
still raptor
actually i may have had it one time
like last year actually
i forgot about that
but it wasnt even what i ordered
uber eats fucked it up
compact hearth
still raptor
ambient generic being what exactly in your eyes
like a global entity lighting value?
compact hearth
it's for audio
still raptor
oh
compact hearth
afaik
still raptor
yeah audio needs some work
compact hearth
btw weird fact i loaded up that one hl1 dm map
crossfire
it spawned at least 3 enemies
🤔
ancient depot
likely the corpses
ancient depot
some corpses in hl are still monster_whatever
compact hearth
weird, there are no corpses on crossfire
ancient depot
huh, that is very odd then
lament ore
Ambient generic itself is pretty simple, it just plays an audio file when triggered. I imagine the "effects" will take some work but 90% of the time it's just to make an audio file play
mortal narwhal
I know this is old, but @cosmic copper
does anyone know a way around the transparent textures leaving "holes" in adjacent brushes?
make the brush intofunc_wall
any brush entity like func_wall func_detail etc. dont eat out of other faces
ancient depot
that should be fixed in the upcoming patch btw
cosmic copper
ah ok thanks
alpine depot
holy FUCK
ancient depot
Yeah I've been following development on it in their Discord
It's great stuff
One of the goals is to be able to use the Chisel API at runtime in a game, so you could use it to have an editor in-game
tropic totem
that is phenomenal
steel nova
Nice
iron needle
Chisel is going to be Very Good
honest stag
can someone give me a tldr about Chisel
viscid sinew
From what I can tell it's a level design tool suite for Unity
I've only seen bits of it
still raptor
im not even sure why he needs a patreon for it though
he works at unity
id hope they pay him for his work
itll definitely be one of the best ld tools for unity
maybe second to using bsp ;)
honest stag
I have no idea what rcsg is lol
time to google
still raptor
realtime csg
its an addon for unity
basically, this is what trenchbroom, hammer, etc do
its the "brush based" work flow functionally
acoustic hedge
I tried messing with water in my map.
If it collides with geometry it gets rid of only the geometry thats touching or in it, and i cant swim in it.
crystal lily
Aren't like IdTech and Source games like the last engines to really use brushes instead of static meshes for final layout?
Older games, like Quake, Half Life, Cube 2
crystal lily
I mean as a primary thing. https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/Engine/Actors/Brushes/index.html
lament ore
@still raptor pretty sure he made that patreon before he got picked up by Unity. There's only like 4 patrons on it for $15/month total anyway lol
Probably just hasn't thought about it to close it at this point
Once my two weeks are up I think I'll start working on me own game. I think I've acquired enough skills to make it happen.
Daddy @iron needle 's programming war crimes have inspired me in that I don't need to know everything before I take the leap
still raptor
and yeah, csg workflows arent common anymore for various very good reasons
lament ore
I'll have some free time in between this job and my next job since I'm waiting on a cert anyhow
crystal lily
lament ore
@still raptor what reasons would those be? I know for making a final product it's not ideal but for prototyping it's still the best imo
still raptor
yeah i mean as a prototype tool theres nothing wrong with it
crystal lily
Like a mid to early 2000's thing, right?
still raptor
definitely my favorite
as details became more and more important in games it got less and less relevant
as trying to model detail with csg brushes is foolish at best
and actively detrimental at worst
you dont have any direct control over triangle generation
lament ore
ILLEGAL BRUSH
ILLEGAL BRUSH
ILLEGAL BRUSH
crystal lily
Source engine is dated in that way
still raptor
you can end up with triangle soup very easily
its never really going to beat hand optimized static meshes
if you need an example of games made with the attitude and design of csg/bsp flows, but without actually using it
look to amid evil
that game is all static meshes
crystal lily
Dusk is made of brushes(no static meshes, right?)
still raptor
dusk is a cancerous hybrid
honest stag
lol
still raptor
its sort of both
lament ore
What Valve does these days is they create undetailed base maps with the CSG workflow, then export it to SketchUp or some other modeling program and detail it there
still raptor
it used probuilder which tries to be a csg-like workflow
but it just makes bad static meshes
you miss out on the advantages of both really
its shit
still raptor
i mean TB/Jack/Hammer/Etc
those are true csg workflows
we just didnt have the sdk to do it at the time
but we wouldve used them if we did
crystal lily
Did David use Blender for the static meshes?
still raptor
RCSG is pretty good if you want in-unity csg
no, probuilder
its, not good
or wait for chisel, which is the grown up version of rcsg pretty much
probuilder was really good for the time and place
but id hardly suggest using it now
its very slow if youre used to CSG workflows
lament ore
Chisel has a prototype available but it's Mac only rn iirc
still raptor
and not nearly as optimal as dedicated modeling software
lament ore
Fortunately I have a M A C .....
still raptor
i have one on my desk
i only use it for building and testing mac builds
the rest of the time is spent willing myself to not smash it with a hammer
crystal lily
Windows fan?
lament ore
what model Mac is it
still raptor
mac mini
lament ore
I understand
still raptor
not as much windows fan as militant anti mac
lament ore
When I was in IT I managed an office of like fifty Mac Minis
crystal lily
The only apple product I got is an Iphone
still raptor
linux is cool, windows is cool, mac cant cease to be quick enough
lament ore
I used Linux as a daily driver for six years. Jumped ship to Mac and haven't looked back
Windows..,.....not cool imo
crystal lily
I used to use Ubuntu
frank violet
So I'm looking for the SDK/mnt/local folders and cant find them.
lament ore
Jump ship to Mac? I did it entirely on my own lol. Got tired of Linux's bullshit and dual booting.
still raptor
you need to install the SDK beta branch
crystal lily
Then I uninstalled, then went to Windows
frank violet
i entered the code on steam, what more do i have to do after that?
still raptor
the password is oohatinybarn
and then switch to the branch
you library will say dusk[sdk] if you did it right
frank violet
how do i switch to the branch
lament ore
Mac has all the same good stuff about Linux (except excessive customization options I never gave a shit about) and most of the industry standard software support of Windows
still raptor
dropdown menu right above where you enter the password
still raptor
and is riddled with horrible incompatibilities, needless off-spec usages, condescending design, and bad decision making
frank violet
I'm looking to make a few maps, never done this before.
still raptor
i haaaaaate it
lament ore
Tbh I dunno how you stand Linux if "bad decision making" is an issue for you
still raptor
well you make all the decisions with linux
lament ore
Supposedly
still raptor
if apple decides to kill support for 32bit theres nothing you can do about it
lament ore
However I found in reality I just spent more time messing with my OS than using my computer to do productive things
Turned my computer into more of a toy than a tool
lament ore
Also 32 bit supported needed to die lul
crystal lily
we stan
still raptor
but that doesnt change the fact that its a bad decision
it causes me many many problems and eats an inordinate amount of time
when i have 32bit customers, who can no longer use the product i sold them
thats a problem
lament ore
That's fair but like they had to cut it sometime
still raptor
basically all of the time i spend on mac is trying to play catch up because they intentionally design for an incompat ecosystem, for what seems like no beneficial reason
if you develop FROM mac im sure its not an issue
but porting TO mac is a nightmare
lament ore
I mean they CAN be overzealous about cutting legacy shit I won't argue against that
OpenGL for example. I think cutting OpenGL is a good thing, but we don't really have a good replacement for it yet
lament ore
An accessible high level graphics language has its place
That said, you can run Vulkan or OpenGL on top of Metal with a relatively small overhead
still raptor
ill take opengl over vulkan
lament ore
Regardless yeah I can see why you would view Mac that way when your position is basically begrudgingly supporting it because you have to lol
still raptor
its half cooked
lament ore
But it really is a nice ecosystem when you're inside it
still raptor
yeah its literally because i have to
well, if it wasnt designed to make you feel like a muppet id maybe believe that
i have never rolled my eyes as hard as when i saw the option called "natural scrolling"
e u g h
id spit in the eye of whoever decided that
lament ore
Mac treats you more like a power user than Windows 10 does straight up
still raptor
i dont agree, but i can see why you would say that
im sure i would like it more if my job wasnt games
lament ore
Sorry having to let trucks in interrupted me lmao
But yeah no they'll name stuff kinda dumb things sometimes but Mac doesn't nanny you
still raptor
yeah no it doesnt, but i dont really think ive found that the be the case with any os
past surface level youre on your own most of the time
lament ore
Ehh I mean if you have Windows Enterprise or at least Pro maybe
I have Enterprise but I disagree with the idea that you should pay for a different edition of an OS just to have full control over your computer
still raptor
i use pro
but id have no issue with home
i dont think any of the features you get with enterprise have ever been something ive really needed
or couldnt just use from pro or home
lament ore
iirc only Pro and Enterprise allow you to prevent mandatory updating, no?
lament ore
Ehhhhh. Nice that there's a workaround but you shouldn't have to do that to tell your OS "hey don't fucking shut off in the middle of the night if I don't want you to"
I had a couple 3D prints ruined that way
still raptor
so
to be perfectly candid here
people talk about that windows update thing happening
but ive never ever had my pc do that
idk what magical setting i have
but its something ive never understood
i see people talk about that everywhere
it must be whatever settings i use
and being on pro
i only used home when win10 came out
been a hot minute
lament ore
Do you shut down your computer every time you're done with it?
Most people just let it go to sleep, and if it's sleeping and Windows wants to install an update, it'll restart the computer without asking
still raptor
nah i leave mine running for months at a time
lament ore
Dunno, maybe you just never noticed it
still raptor
nah whenever my pc turns off overnight i notice
lament ore
But like for me I'd leave my computer on to do a 3D print overnight and Windows would be like "oh, you haven't moved your mouse in a few hours. Time to update :-)"
still raptor
its usually due to a power outage, or a bsod happens sometimes
lament ore
Do you have your wifi connection set to metered?
still raptor
nah
lament ore
Huh. Maybe you're just lucky lol
crude cedar
I always turn off my computer when I sleep
still raptor
i dont sleep in the room with my pc so its not an issue
crude cedar
darn
still raptor
i just leave the room
lament ore
I haven't personally experienced it but I've also heard of people who have stuck their laptop into laptop bags, then found their laptop hot as fucking lava when they open the bag because they computer turned on to restart and update but the fans were blocked due to being in the bag
crude cedar
I have 1 room I do most everything in so
still raptor
i have heard that as well
like i KNOW people experience it
and its MOST people
it must be home users
but yeah windows sucks in a lot of ways
but its the easiest env for games work sadly
sometimes platform holders simply just dont even support other OSes
which is infuriating
if mac supported games work as easily as windows id probably be using one out of spite for microsoft
lament ore
Yeah like the restarting thing is bad but ultimately my biggest issue with Windows is that it's about 20 years of spaghetti code and they just keep piling on the pasta. I know "it just werks" is a meme but when you get used to Mac it's hard to go back to Windows.
Part of the reason why I like Mac is they're willing to cut legacy support. Nearly every computer sold in the last like 15 years has been 64 bit. It was time for 32 bit to go.
Will Windows ever drop 32 bit support? Probably not this decade, lol
Which, on a semi-related note, it is high fucking time for both Microsoft AND Apple to drop fucking x86/x86_64
RISC mustard race
You'll cowards won't even drop CISC
ancient depot
reminder x86 is just RISC under the hood now
lament ore
That too
Ever since the AMD K4 and the first Pentium Pro if I remember correctly
CISC nowadays is just RISC with extra steps
The benefits of CISC don't even apply to modern computers
"oooh we save 1kb storage space per program because it uses less instructions" bitch my CPU is ON FIRE
ancient depot
one day people will properly adopt RISC-V and all will be good in the world
lament ore
People were/are so shocked when they hear about the passively cooled 15W ARM chip in the iPad Pro outperforming the actively cooled 100W i5s and it's like YEAH BECAUSE IT'S INSANELY MORE EFFICIENT NOW CAN WE PLEASE DROP CISC
I don't think RISC-V is ready for primetime but someday.....
lament ore
You see Microsoft's x86 emulator for ARM?
It like.....actually works well enough to the point where you don't notice most apps are emulated and you can even run some games. They're working on x86_64 support now.
still raptor
the risc foundation just needs a software group that can build an ecosystem around it
blow microsoft and apple out of the water
they both suck
lament ore
Also Apple makes their own in-house ARM chips so chances are low they'd go to RISC-V over ARM but oh well
I'd like to see open source hardware catch on better
still raptor
that wont happen
lament ore
Probably not but a man can dream.....
still raptor
theres not enough benefit for anyone really
for the same reason fpga solutions arent popular
lament ore
It's a shame the RPi maintains a strangehold on the single board Linux computer market purely through every other board having God awful GPU drivers
still raptor
well price is a big factor
rpi is 35 dollars
for a fully functioning computer out of the box
lament ore
There are other similarly priced boards. Odroid C2 is like $40 iirc and it had specs equivalent to the RPi 3 before the 3 even came out
But it's worthless because the GPU drivers are shit so you can't do anything fun with it. Nice if all you need is the CPU though
Also supports eMMC instead of slow-ass sd cards
And more power efficient, more RAM, etc etc compared to the RPi 3. Haven't looked at alternatives to the 4 yet
still raptor
its more expensive, and isnt functional out of the box
that alone makes it not stand a chance
lament ore
It's functional out of the box
still raptor
not in the same way
still raptor
see theres the rub
for you it was as simple as flash an sd card
for the average person, theres a million steps there
and any one of them can be fucke dup
lament ore
There were options to buy a pre-flashed SD card if I'm not mistaken. I just didn't because I didn't need to
still raptor
that helps a lot for sure
but basically you have to look at the ecosystem of ready made solutions
lament ore
But also I'd make the argument that if you're interested in the RPi you should probably be capable of flashing an SD card following a tutorial. It's not something you buy at best buy
still raptor
raspberry pi has an OS, accessories, etc
no actually they sell them at best buy now lol
full kits
for 100 dollars
which is hilarious
lament ore
No yeah you're absolutely right that the ecosystem, but that's due in no small part by other boards failing to catch on thanks to poor community support. Classic catch-22
Because at a hardware level there's better value offerings than the Pi available (at least when the 3 was out, haven't looked at 4 like I said)
still raptor
the average person buying a rapberry pi is buying it because they heard from a youtuber they can watch netflix and play epic retro games on it
its a crying shame the other boards arent given credit
lament ore
I know those people are out there but idk. There's a lot of setup involved with any ARM Linux board.
Also fuck NTC
motherfuckers sold like one batch of the CHIP then peaced out
still raptor
yeah, its just rpi has the easiest ecosystem for it, and lots of youtube tutorials etc
lament ore
Ye
still raptor
games are what sells these boards far and away sadly
and until someone has something that beats rpi at ease of use for that purpose, its gonna be an uphill battle
for example, go to HK's webpage right now
the first thing you see
they know what theyre up against
lament ore
On the topic of NTC, back before the RPi Zero W was out they had a better offering cuz they had WiFi on-board. I ported MAME to it and created a GPIO input library for it (which I integrated into the MAME port)
Then I built a mini arcade machine with my CHIP but accidentally got the polarity on a transistor backwards and burnt it out
still raptor
oof
lament ore
And then they never fucking sold any more CHIPS
still raptor
rip
lament ore
I had a version of my MAME port on there where I implemented fast non-integer scaling for video so it would fit in the resolution the CHIP supported
And I never got to upload it
Bassards......
torpid agate
That freakin sucks omg
still raptor
its a shame that market can never really reach full legitimacy because the fact remains theyre basically piracy machines
"no i own every pcb i have mame roms for i swear"
honest stag
someone uploaded a mod that replaces a lot of sounds with q3 sounds and it's kinda awesome
the HUP is a bit annoying so i got rid of it, otherwise i think i'll keep this for a long time lol
lament ore
But anyway back on the topic of Odroid, they could seriously compete with RPi in the consumer space if not for the GPU driver issues. They're similarly priced to the Pis, generally offer better hardware, and have out-of-the-box options. But no ARM SoC outside of the Pi's custom Broadcom chip has serviceable drivers for desktop Linux, and everything is closed source so Odroid can't even do shit about it
In the early days Odroid offered clones of the RPi using the same chip. They made a smaller form factor RPi long before the RPi Zero was offered
But they got sued and had to stop
So much for RPi being open source~~ lol
Not to mention no browser except RPi's in house one supports full hardware acceleration on ARM boards
Which makes videos of any decent resolution lock up the browser
And RPi's only supports RPi obviously
When I first got my C2 it didn't even support OpenGL (nor ES) yet
Ended up just putting Android on it cuz everything worked with Android fine
still raptor
yikes
lament ore
Yeah. It's just a shame all around. RPi claims they love open source~ and love the community~ and etc but does everything they can to keep the RPi the only real option on the single board ARM market for consumers
ancient depot
the only thing worse than "Brand ❤️ Open Source" is "Made with ❤️ and 🍺"
lament ore
There's no reason other board manufacturers should be disallowed from using the same Broadcom chip as them
Yea
Just like Apple ""open source""
Or even worse, Microsoft """"open source""""
ancient depot
Microsoft is a bit of an odd one
The .NET stuff is great
The rest of the company is uhhhhhhh
hard pollen
still raptor
releasing the source for the terminal is cool as well
ancient depot
still wish you could set that up to automatically hook into any new CMD/PowerShell windows you open
like ConEmu can
ancient depot
not with the like 50gb of shit it takes to compile
lament ore
Yeah I used the terminal for a bit and was like "hmmmm ok back to conemu"
Speaking of, idk how to describe the feeling of watching Microsoft be like "we love Linux :-)" and all the WSL stuff with my brain Gremlins chanting "EMBRACE. EXTEND. EXTINGUISH" over and over in my head
I think WSL is the best windows feature in decades but hooboy
We're in phase two of three and that's scary
ancient depot
||they just need to take control of systemd and then they've got like 90% of linux distributions these days reeeeeeee||
lament ore
My prediction: they'll come out with a new version of SecureBoot that can't be disabled and disallows anything but Windows to be installed. When questioned in court, Microsoft will claim users can run Linux through WSL thus they're not being anti-competitive.
still raptor
lol
ancient depot
Pretty sure it's illegal to not allow someone to install a custom OS on a personal computer
still raptor
thankfully msoft has no power over hardware
ancient depot
If they made that it'd have to be at least opt-out by law
lament ore
You think so? Cuz I feel like if MS said to Dell/Asus/HP/etc "you need to use SecureBoot 2.0 or you're not allowed to distribute windows with your computer" I think they'd probably listen
Wouldn't be the first time MS tried to get away with incredibly illegal anti-competitive shit
still raptor
unless they controlled the bios, they couldnt prevent it
i know as a fact they would drop microsoft faster than you can blink
at least in the case of dell
i have the inside track there
ancient depot
secureboot is part of the motherboard
lament ore
I'm sure they'd LIKE to but what are they gonna offer as an alternative
still raptor
they already ship ubuntu and chromeos pcs
lament ore
Linux is definitely not ready for the average non-techie consumer
ChromeOS is too limited for a lot of people
ancient depot
Those distros pay MS to be allowed through SecureBoot