dusk-modding

[still raptor]

before

after

[honest stag]

@alpine depot killtarget property?

maybe?

[still raptor]

quake

[fiery badge]

I have an idea for my map set

Where there are often a squad of 1 mage and 3 soldiers

I like to imagine the mages are higher ranked than the soldiers

And I think them commanding them would be cool

[honest stag]

rat is the lowest

then the goat
Then i dont know

so uhhh

i spent 30 minutes making a door and it looks out of place

[thorn nova]

God, I've made 2 enemy replacers today

feels good man

[jolly elk]

Everyone here talking about their maps and im here like how do I use trenchbroom and do I put the wad in it's own folder in games or am I doing this all wrong oh god what is this I've only ever used unreal and this is all alien to me

[scarlet fjord]

rats have their own heirarchy

the big one makes all of the rules

[jolly elk]

year of the big rat

[honest stag]

i highly recommend watching dumptruck_ds's tutorials on youtube

super informative and easy to follow

[vivid blaze]

let's see what kind of trouble we can get into

[jolly elk]

thanks @honest stag i'll go take a look

[fringe nymph]

check the dumptruck_ds tutorials like vriska said

[thorn nova]

rats we're rats

[fringe nymph]

and check out this channel pins

[thorn nova]

I'M DA GIANT RAT DAT MAKES ALL OF DA RULES

[jolly elk]

if you think about it with it being the year of the rat, there should be more rat centered levels created this year than anything. Might as well call it hell year

[vivid blaze]

once custom models are supported i'm going to get the 3d movie maker rat model and replace all the rats in dusk with it

[scarlet fjord]

I'm going ot have so much fun adding my own models I'm so excited

[jolly elk]

Yeah i've been looking at the pins to try and figure some stuff out but i'm still confused. Granted it's 3am and i'm probably skimming over many things 😄

[scarlet fjord]

community dusk sewer level mega wad: Whoops! All rats!

[jolly elk]

Wait

[thorn nova]

@vivid blaze Perfection

[honest stag]

i fucking give up
each section of the door is a func_door with a unique taget name, there are 9 trigger_once brushes in the same place, each connected to a part of a door for it to open properly YET ONLY 3 FUCKING PARTS MOVE???

[jolly elk]

are the big john rats the equivalent of the big rat that makes all the rules

[thorn nova]

Basically

[scarlet fjord]

Can't you cross refrence how they did it in the quake levels? Or have you already done that?

[jolly elk]

Now I want a rats song but it's "john's, John's, we're the Johns"

[honest stag]

in quake they just activate when you approach

because you know

no use button

[scarlet fjord]

O right

[fringe nymph]

yes you can just download quake 1 source file maps

[honest stag]

wont work

sadly

[scarlet fjord]

Yeah forgot it's an import

[fringe nymph]

and check how its aligned there

[honest stag]

they 100% should tho

look at this

1 moment

[scarlet fjord]

Wait yeah hang on first level they worked in import

one momenting!

[thorn nova]

I'M THE BIG JOHN THAT MAKES ALL OF THE RULES

[honest stag]

so yeah each part is connected to 9 different trigger_once brushes and yet when you touch them nothing happens

or at least happens but only 3 parts of the door move

even tho i checked everything and they 100% should move

i tried using one single trigger brush with multiple target names but nope

i have 1 last thing to try and then i'm scrapping this lol

[scarlet fjord]

godspeed!

[honest stag]

... oh my GOD nothing changed

ughhhh :(

[scarlet fjord]

rip vriska

[honest stag]

you know this doesnt make any sense
there is a trigger and a part of the door which it connects to
why doent the door open

you know funny enough

the doors dont open when i touch them either

what the hell

they cant be blocked are they?

[alpine depot]

pretty sure the doors clip through everything no matter what

[honest stag]

yeah exactly
yet they dont open when touched

[alpine depot]

you could try joining some of those 9 parts together since only three parts apparently move

[honest stag]

tried that

tried basically connecting every part under 1 target name and func_, didnt work

i have no clue wtf is going on

[iron needle]

ok so

try doing this

[honest stag]

:O

[iron needle]

give ONE a targetname and none of the others

have one trigger that targets that one

try that

[honest stag]

alright lemme try that for one of the part that doesnt move

[iron needle]

Basically qhat Quake does is any doors that are touching are considered "linked," and doors without a targetname will inherit the name of the one touching them

or something like that

[honest stag]

huh lemme try

[iron needle]

basically if you have one door with a targetname and a trigger targeting it, you should be able to have other doors touching it do the same thing

provided they don't have a targetname

[honest stag]

so that part moved even tho the only thing i did was remove target names from other "doors"

in fact 2 PARTS moved even tho i didnt give the other a target name lol

so like question is

why arent the other parts moving since they're touching

[iron needle]

do they have a targetname?

[honest stag]

nope

[iron needle]

hmm

@ancient depot maybe you have some insight

[honest stag]

my shitty door doesnt deserve that much help but thank you

[iron needle]

I feel like those should all be one brush too but I don't know specifically how that all works in TB

[ancient depot]

linked doors aren't in the public build atm

[iron needle]

wait really?

[honest stag]

...huh

[iron needle]

I thought we hotfixed that this morning

[ancient depot]

nope

that's why we're doing a patch now lmao

[honest stag]

oh so i'll wait for that

and see if it works

[iron needle]

@ancient depot I have it in the patch notes tho

https://steamcommunity.com/app/519860/discussions/7/1747893292775742503/

[ancient depot]

Huh, I swear we didn't put that in the public build yet

[honest stag]

also uhhh my door parts moved even tho they dont have a target name but the one next to it does

[iron needle]

I mean a new patch is coming in like uhh 2 minutes so we'll see then lol

[honest stag]

alright

[ancient depot]

for the record I could be just going insane

last night doesn't even feel real tbh

[iron needle]

sleep is meaningless to Zombie

[ancient depot]

what is sleep

[fringe nymph]

i can relate to that

[jolly elk]

How would I go around getting dusk entity's in trench, is there a pinned comment that talks about this?.

[ancient depot]

The game is bundled with an entities.txt file

You have to manually change the class of an entity you place in tb

Once we have an official fgd the workflow will be much nicer

I think there's a community-made fgd circulating for now though

[fringe nymph]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mT1phh6dE-BLh3YsVm0AElC_pYpbjF-L/view?usp=drivesdk

you can use that for now

[jolly elk]

This is probably a stupid question but what is an fgd

[tropic vapor]

I'm just getting started on making one platform of a map, holy cow this is going to be a lot of shapes

[vivid blaze]

an entity definition file

[jolly elk]

I've only ever made basic levels in unreal so all this stuff is alien and new so I have no idea what i'm doing haha

[honest stag]

we all have at one point or another

(..or still do like me)

[tropic vapor]

I'm just copying an old map and it still seems like a monumental task haha

I'm going to try and chop it up into small bits

[honest stag]

so how about that fix

[ancient depot]

An .fgd is basically a list of entities that you can import into your level editor

Includes information about them like what properties you can set, etc

[jolly elk]

I see. Just done some rumaging and I think I found where it goes.

[tropic vapor]

What if theres this random cube in a map that I can't delete?

No idea how it got there

[ancient depot]

Then your map is haunted

[honest stag]

click on it and hit "delete"?

[jolly elk]

spooky

[tropic vapor]

It just showed up haha

my map only has like 8 polygons in it

[honest stag]

DUde it's tHe herobRine kyoob

[tropic vapor]

Just gonna leave it there and give it a secret trigger or something

Name it Dave

[alpine depot]

I thought monster_herobrine was removed?!

[tropic vapor]

I had to resize it then it let me delete it

dave

[fringe nymph]

who tf is dave

[tropic vapor]

A sneaky shape that wouldn't let me delete him

[iron needle]

ok patch is out

so the main thing here is

FIXED LIGHTMAPS

mostly

[honest stag]

Y E A S

[iron needle]

don't use light styles

[tropic vapor]

Woohoo

[iron needle]

because they won

t work

[fringe nymph]

finally

[honest stag]

patch notes out?

[jolly elk]

For someone who is still new to this kind of stuff. Do you guys think it would be more worth it to watch Dumps videos and make like a quake level whilst I wait for the SDK to be out of beta and like more tutorials on how to get it to work comes out?

[honest stag]

you can just slam your quake level into dusk and it'll work

also my old map isnt loading with the new patch

not even the "escape screen"

[tropic vapor]

There's no way to get a UT map into TB/Jack right?

I'm guessing they're different engines entirely

[honest stag]

dusk crashed

[vivid blaze]

You’d might as well get used to the level editor while you wait

[jolly elk]

Oh yeah I forgot about that. Ok yeah, think i'll do that then, try to figure it all out as I go along

[honest stag]

this map crashes the game now, do you want the output.log?

[jolly elk]

I had a mini thought of like. Hmm since im doing game design learning a new engine will be good for my future prospects but then I remembered im using a sdk for games that went out of the mainstream eye many years ago. Guess I can put it in a portfolio 🙂

[iron needle]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/519860/discussions/7/1747893292775742503/

patch notes up

[jolly elk]

after 3 years of doing this I have made one amazing discovery

Making games is hard

[iron needle]

not even the "escape screen"``` @ancient depot

[ancient depot]

looking into it rn

[honest stag]

output log if you need it @ancient depot

[alpine depot]

I'd say recompile the old map but idk if that would have to do with anything

[solid isle]

Also after using "angle" instead of angles, my door does the thing again

so i guess I have to go back to angles...?

[ancient depot]

what do you have angle set to?

[solid isle]

-1

[ancient depot]

we support angles now btw

[solid isle]

angles is 0

I know. I think it's broke having both

[ancient depot]

if you have one set, you can't set the other

[solid isle]

oh so I have to delete one of them now then

[ancient depot]

yeah

[solid isle]

ok

anyway, still got a lightmap artifact, but overall it seems to be good now

[ancient depot]

can you confirm that the artifact doesn't show up in quake?

[solid isle]

Ill go check

[still raptor]

excited to see people able to actually light their maps nice now lol

instead of with fucking candles

[honest stag]

hey now

They look nice :(

[alpine depot]

are colored lights gonna be a thing?

[fringe nymph]

or light 1 which makes everything dull bright

[still raptor]

colored lights are already a thing if you use hlbsp

support for .lit files im sure will come

[solid isle]

idk why I'm in 1.5 but

[still raptor]

can you upload the bsp

[solid isle]

Who me?

[still raptor]

yeah

[solid isle]

yeah one sec

[still raptor]

so we can see what causes the artifact

also want to ask, do you have a styled light there

[solid isle]

nope

[still raptor]

kk

[ancient depot]

I get the feeling it's still light style related

[still raptor]

very likely

[solid isle]

I don't have any, unless it's a default

hold on, let me recompile and check the rest of it too

[ancient depot]

I have a hunch on what it could be

[fringe nymph]

hey hl:uplink maps work rn

[honest stag]

I think i'll scrap and dump 80% of my map entirely now that lighting is supported
I am leaving the candle lit part tho >:(

[solid isle]

Strange. It's gone now @ancient depot @still raptor

after a recompile

[ancient depot]

[solid isle]

Also uhhhhhh door still broke

[royal spear]

Is there a way to not make the weapon sounds that are playing cut off when firing again

[solid isle]

unless it has to be same values

I'm guessing there's no support for goldsrc style angles?

[ancient depot]

angles expects goldsrc style

[solid isle]

wait hold on
it must not have updated?

the map that is

Alright yeah. Anyway, lightmaps look fine now.

Other issue is leathernecks hate doors

[ancient depot]

that's because the navmesh doesn't update

was a performance issue before so we had to disable it

[solid isle]

Oh I see. That's it for me then 🙂

[ancient depot]

we'll think of a fix for that eventually

[still raptor]

remind me to profile that

[honest stag]

so is there anything that broke the old maps? i cant get mine to work :(

[still raptor]

i want to see exactly how bad it is and what was happening

[honest stag]

probably lighting or something

[still raptor]

no i dont think so

[solid isle]

Weird question, but thinking of the "platform" in Doom's E1M1 (the one that moves up and down), if I turn that into a door will it break the enemies on top of it?

[honest stag]

well yeah i said before here but one of my older maps crashes the game no

you know

i'll try to compile it without light

[still raptor]

if you can upload it

[honest stag]

see if that works

[still raptor]

we can check

or give us the output log from it

[honest stag]

i posted both earlier

like 10-20 minutes ago

again, i'll try to do no lighting

[ancient depot]

I got your map to stop crashing (or in my case, hanging forever) by disabling lightmaps

so something is wrong there

[honest stag]

yeah i had to do bootleg shit to get it to work, let me try some things

[lament ore]

@honest stag idk if anyone ever answered you, but multimanager is how you have one trigger activate multiple things

basically a multimanager allows you to trigger an arbitrary number of things each with their own delay

idk if it's implemented yet

[ancient depot]

it is

[lament ore]

keel

[honest stag]

oh thank you
how does it work exactly?

[lament ore]

kewl*

I'm getting ready for work but just look it up on YouTube you'll find it

[honest stag]

alright thank you

[honest stag]

lol

where's the giant rat

0/10

[lapis hare]

he's reestablishing the uplink

[fringe nymph]

^

[sturdy tide]

hey if i'm a talentless hack, can i drop existing quake maps into this or is there some retooling involved

[lament ore]

you can more or less do that yes

[fringe nymph]

nah

[honest stag]

so i have no clue here - i have removed all light entities from my old map (not counting candles) and map keeps crashing @ancient depot

• removed worldspawn light value

[fringe nymph]

they work from the getgo

playablity is the other issue

[iron needle]

@sturdy tide Quake implementation isn't 100% complete yet but for the most part yeah

there are just a few entities that don't work yet (func_plat and func_train being the main ones)

[sturdy tide]

fantastic

[ancient depot]

@honest stag

fixed for next patch, coming asap

[honest stag]

????

oh my god thank you so much

i was scared of losing my only good map lol

[ancient depot]

hahaha

[honest stag]

also uhm

could you please give me the bsp back? i kinda screwed my map up while trying to fix this myself

lol

and i have no backup

[iron needle]

lol

ALWAYS USE VERSION CONTROL

[honest stag]

i KNOW OK

i guess i can download the one i linked

[alpine depot]

version control is for nerds pfffft I dont need that garbage

[ancient depot]

I only have a compiled .bsp

(the one you linked)

[mortal narwhal]

new patch lol

map on its side

[ancient depot]

wat

[honest stag]

trenchbroom i love you.

what the FUCK

[mortal narwhal]

the lighting works though

[honest stag]

what map is this even

[mortal narwhal]

my map

TB btw

[honest stag]

ohh i see

[ancient depot]

do you have angles on worldspawn or something lol

[mortal narwhal]

OH shit lol

I accidentally changed that when setting lighting to 0

so, yes

[iron needle]

hahahahaha

[ancient depot]

lmao

[sturdy tide]

welp

[mortal narwhal]

rookie mistake

[honest stag]

bruh

[mortal narwhal]

So is the lighting basically quake lighting now?

[fringe nymph]

ye

[mortal narwhal]

can we mess with the light object with wait and style and stuff

[ancient depot]

no

that needs light styles which we don't support yet

[honest stag]

you heard the boss, it's illegal now

[mortal narwhal]

shit

[ancient depot]

if you try and do that, then it'll semi-work, but the lights will all be permanently on

[mortal narwhal]

alrighty

[ancient depot]

for example, check C1A0 from Half-Life

or E1M1 from Quake

[fringe nymph]

are bodies supposed to be bright?

[ancient depot]

notice how all lights are on

yes that's a known bug

I... kinda wonder why we haven't fixed that yet lol

[sturdy tide]

fuckin wizards

[ebon jetty]

well

[mortal narwhal]

whats the progress looking like on the fgd @ancient depot if you don't mind me asking

[ebon jetty]

my first map's lighting is not as bad as i was expecting

but man are all the props broken

[ancient depot]

the fgd won't be coming until we have custom model support

ETA unknown, when it's done lol

[mortal narwhal]

makes sense

[ebon jetty]

ty for the lights boys

now i can live out my torch fantasies

my map im working on just doesn't load in dusk for some reason

[mortal narwhal]

wut

[honest stag]

hey my map used to crash too, they fixed it but the patch isnt live yet

[ancient depot]

probably the same issue

[honest stag]

i guess

[ancient depot]

hold out for patch

[ebon jetty]

oe

f

[ancient depot]

it's coming as soon as it's done building

[ebon jetty]

well it's probably good because i need to stop getting distracted

[still raptor]

should be coming any minute yeah

[mortal narwhal]

its neat seeing this project update so often

is this enough rats for a pit?

[honest stag]

dude i know this is stupid but what if you made a vertical func_door with a buncha prop_rock things on it that opens with a button

so they fall down and crush them

sorry i'll go back to my cave

[mortal narwhal]

that actually sounds cool af

I'm gonna try that on a test map to see if its possible

[honest stag]

lol

i'm stealing that idea by the way

[mortal narwhal]

Nice

americ
anfootball

[still raptor]

ok

patch is up

[ebon jetty]

ty

it works well

[honest stag]

eyyy map loads

i added proper lights to my old freezer room, probably 1/2 more could help and the celling lights are fucked but it actually looks more like a freezer now

[thorn nova]

S D K P A T C H

Also fuck I can't believe big john is dead :c

[honest stag]

yeah those assholes killed big john

[mortal narwhal]

@honest stag check my rat boulder idea out

[honest stag]

lemme see

OUR rat boulder idea >:(
jk, this is cool but damn huge shame that they dont tie :(

[sturdy tide]

something tells me only dusk textures work rn

[honest stag]

quake ones work too?

for me at least

[mortal narwhal]

did you see the "secret" behind you when you drop a func_door on them

[sturdy tide]

hm

[honest stag]

aw yiiiiss found it

feels good

[mortal narwhal]

lol

[honest stag]

man i'm super sad about this not working lol

would be so cool

[mortal narwhal]

yeah, game broken

I think platforms should definitely kill

maybe i can move a hurt trigger?

[honest stag]

does killtarget work?

[still raptor]

neither of those things would work in the base game

and yes you could attach a hurt trigger to the bottom of a lift probably

(if we get tested entities)

[mortal narwhal]

nice

@honest stag hows your map going?

[honest stag]

scrapped it fully, trying to figure out what to do with the first section because that one isnt bad

[mortal narwhal]

damn, I think the freezer room is a nice concept

[honest stag]

no no that's another map

an older one, complete one

i just went back and added some light after the patch

[mortal narwhal]

nice, do you have it uploaded to moddb?

[honest stag]

yeah but it's an old verison

here's the one i updated

also one of the secrets doesnt work because bugs - it's placed behind the portal behind you at the start

there's supposed to be a diamond but it borked

[ancient depot]

it spawned when I tested the earlier bsp

[honest stag]

oh then it works lol

[ivory otter]

So to add a prop you just create a point entity and rename it. And then add a euler property to it correct?

[honest stag]

if you want to rotate it yes

if you dont care then dont

[ivory otter]

Ah, cool, 0, 0, 0 is default correct?

[honest stag]

yep

[mortal narwhal]

@honest stag I dig that level, I like the whole going through a tunnel and ending up somewhere completely different

Its like that one level in E3

[honest stag]

ey thank you
i'm proud of it but i think it sucks compared to what other people here are making

[mortal narwhal]

What about it do you not like?

[ivory otter]

It's looking pretty cool, better than my shitty apartment complex map lol

[honest stag]

it's short, some parts lack details while some go overboard with them ahem ahem starting area ahem

still, in general i'm proud of it

[mortal narwhal]

Honestly, I was immersed the whole level. There wasn't a part where I went "wow this lacks detail" :)

[honest stag]

eyyy thank you
i think the bar area and the dungeon lack them tho
i i think i may actually enlarge it instead of just slapping an end level trigger

but it has to be fully indoors tho

[mortal narwhal]

I do like the claustrophobic feel the level has

[honest stag]

also the bar part is supposed to be a joke lol

like "a cultist, a grunt and a leatherneck walk into a bar"

i'm not sorry

[mortal narwhal]

lol nice

[ivory otter]

Call the bar Big John's

[mortal narwhal]

and beer books

[honest stag]

it is now called Big John's

[ivory otter]

"Why drink later? DO IT NOW"

"COME ON"

"DO IT"

[iron needle]

Just modify the Books and Beer decal to say "Big John's" lol

[honest stag]

that's actually great lol
i can put up a small sign even if it's inside
you know, fuck it, i'm going to continue that map instead of ending it

[mortal narwhal]

nice

[iron needle]

I haven't had a chance to play any of these maps yet :(

I will at some point tho

[honest stag]

well at least they'll be pretty damn good at that point
and there will be way more

[ivory otter]

Hopefully I can do the immersive sim mechanics in mine justice

Big John romance option in mine?

[thorn nova]

Can't wait till I get rat role so I can show you guys the funnis

[lament ore]

@iron needle post more pics of your cat you coward

show us the demon

[ancient depot]

So I'm considering removing euler and keeping only angles to avoid confusion, because while they do the same thing, they expect different values

euler works in Unity's coordinate system, while angles works in Quake/Half-Life's, which is what the editors use

[lament ore]

that'd probably be best.

i think most people go into the SDK in the mindset of making a Quake/HL/whatever map and not thinking of whatever unity does or doesn't do

[ancient depot]

Yeah, that's the main reason I think it'd be best to remove it sooner rather than later

[honest stag]

[ivory otter]

[lament ore]

@honest stag did you figure out multi manager yet? I have time to explain now

[ivory otter]

"WHY TAKE THAT DRINK HOME WITH YOU!?"

[honest stag]

nope i dropped the idea lol

[lament ore]

o lmao

[ivory otter]

"DRINK IT NOW"

[honest stag]

i was too frustrated

[lament ore]

well for future reference multimanager is really simple, you just turn smart edit off and each key is a target you want to activate, and each value is the delay before it activates it

then when the mm itself gets activated, it starts activating stuff in its list

[honest stag]

one by one or at the same time?

[thorn nova]

"COME ON DRINK IT! DRINK IT NYOW!"

[lament ore]

@honest stag determined by the delays. So if you had three things with a 3 second delay, it would then activate all three things after three seconds from the mm activating

[ancient depot]

note multi_manager is limited to 16 entities it can activate

we also enforce that limit, but I'm considering removing it

[honest stag]

that's fine, i can put MULTIPLE multi managers

[ancient depot]

I mainly kept that limitation in case a map happened to have a multi_manager with more than 16 targets, and the map relied on it not activating the rest

[ivory otter]

What's the entity name for the computer?

[ancient depot]

I don't think the computer is an entity, it's map geometry

[honest stag]

basically brush by hand making time

my fav part honestly

i love doing that

[lament ore]

yeah maps start getting real complex with stacked multimanagers real quick

yeah brush modeling is fun lol

Fun fact Half-Life 1 has very very few models. Almost everything is brush modeled, even the cars and tanks and etc

[honest stag]

is there a way to see how many brushes have i used in a map?

[lament ore]

that depends on tb

[honest stag]

i think i could see it in the compiler

[lament ore]

@ancient depot removing limits would probably be best. I don't see any real use case where people would put more than 16 things in an mm then rely on it not activating anything after the 16th.

Yeah the compiler will tell you for sure but idk about in editor

[ancient depot]

I agree, it was a spur of the moment compatibility decision

But one that doesn't really matter

[lament ore]

you could always add a "pedantic" option or something to things that's enabled by default

[ancient depot]

Unfortunately for multi_manager that wouldn't work because pedantic is a valid target name

[lament ore]

oop

[ancient depot]

I'll think of something

maybe a worldspawn setting

"remove_limits" "1"

[lament ore]

well it doesn't have to be "pedantic" it could be "_dusk_compatibility" or something

yeah that would work fine too

arbitrary limits are no fun

I'm gonna finish up the gameplay of my map and start doing the visuals tonight

Punishing myself by making an entire cliffside with brush terrain because I love pain or something

[honest stag]

hey, if a teleport is connected to a trigger (like a button) is it not going to teleport when something enters it, but only when the button is pressed?

like i put a prop into a trigger_teleport but trigger_teleport is connected to a button
does that mean the prop wont teleport untill it's activated?

or will it just teleport the prop when spawned anyway

wait i have a dumb idea for it

[still raptor]

also yes, your .map file lists the brushes

so you can scroll to the bottom to see how many you have

[honest stag]

soo a button isnt working for me

weird

the target is a door but the button isnt even pressing in-game

lemme see it in quake

shit it crashes in quake, cant do that lol

[lament ore]

why is the target "555"? Is that your door name?

[honest stag]

yeah it's just a test

[lament ore]

that's uh

maybe not the best naming scheme even for tests lmao

[honest stag]

eh, it's stil a test

and the door properties

it should be working right?

[lament ore]

you might be missing some stuff on the button

https://twhl.info/wiki/page/Tutorial%3A_Doors

[honest stag]

lemme see

[lament ore]

twhl is a great resource for half-life mapping and a lot of it should translate to dusk btw

[crystal lily]

Try using https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Category:Level_Design

[honest stag]

i mean i'm using a quake editor but sure

[crystal lily]

True, but Hammer has similar entities, etc from Worldcraft

[honest stag]

hey @mortal narwhal can i see the setup for how you made your button/vertical platform? i would really appreciate it

i think i did everything but it's not working

987 brushes
1784 planes jesus fuck the map is like 2 minutes long

6086 brushfaces

uhhhhhhhhh

[lament ore]

that's normal

as for the number of brushes and such

you hit those old limits real quick

Also all the entities should be almost exactly the same between both editors (especially if you're using the same fgd), the only real difference is in the brush tools

[honest stag]

alright i got the button to work

[crystal lily]

Let me it this way, its a good resource to figure stuff like buttons, doors work. Not 1 to 1 similarity, but good enough

[honest stag]

but it doesnt push in sadly

[crystal lily]

Since you have a lot of questions

Have you looked at the wiki first? Trenchbroom, Quake, etc?

[honest stag]

no no the button actually worked from the start as it turned out
i just misplaced to prop so it didnt fall lol

[crystal lily]

Ok

[honest stag]

wanna see a magic trick?
here's a working vending machine (wip)

i wish i could add a sound to it :(

i cant wait for the support for those

[keen bay]

...NANI?!

[lament ore]

oh yeah I remember zombie mentioning the vending machines in HL1 were functional a while back

[honest stag]

this is bootleg tho

[lament ore]

David let me place corpses I need aesthetics

[honest stag]

man, adding rooms in layers helps so much

also i'm really glad i can move brushes from map to map

i just ripped a good room from a shitty map and about to slam it into a good one lol

so trgger_hurt isnt supported yet right?

[lament ore]

Oh thats the other big thing TB has over Jack, layers

[honest stag]

onions
have
LAYRS

[lament ore]

is transparency in HLBSP supported yet?

[honest stag]

i dont think it is, but see the patch notes

[toxic forge]

Jack has visgroups, similar thing.

to layers

[spiral nexus]

We need TBgang and JACKgang roles

[honest stag]

we're already dusk modding gang, no need to split up

[lament ore]

anyone fancy playing my map? I wanna see if I need to make any big gameplay changes before I start decorating. recorded playthrough preferred pls

oh wow somehow I never knew about visgroups. thx @toxic forge

It should be mentioned that Sledge is another option and like JACK it is based on/inspired by Hammer

but Sledge ceased development in an unfinished state and while it's perfectly usable idk if I'd recommend it

it IS open source though

In fact maybe I oughtta fork Sledge and add IQM support 🤔

C# is way less painful to look at than C++

that said fuck both JACK and Sledge's names because you literally cannot google that shit without literal jackhammers and sledge hammers coming up

[honest stag]

i will!

want me to record?

[lament ore]

yes pls thx bb

ignore the massive lighting errors in the beginning area, they're totally random lmao

I imagine once I'm not fullbrighting the map they'll go away

hopefully

[honest stag]

lemme upload that to youtube real quick

huge layout wow

oh my god

i dont think obs recorded?

what the fuck

let me check

yeah it just.. didnt
wtf

well anyway, i died almost at the end lol

so had to replay

so far i'd say either less tough enemies or a bit more powerful guns/more riveter ammo, since we dont have saving rn doing the entire level all over again feels not good

[crystal lily]

I haven't used the Dusk sdk, but can you make prefabs?

[solid isle]

Sledge at least is inferior and has less documentation than JACK. JACK is still somewhat supported at least.

Also no I don't think so?

[crystal lily]

Prefabs were very handy in Hammer

[solid isle]

I guess it depends on editor

JACK does I think?

[hollow laurel]

closest for TB i guess would be to have another trenchbroom window open where you have a .map with the stuff you want to reuse

since you can just copy and paste stuff over

[solid isle]

yeah, seems that JACK does

TB does not

[honest stag]

wait

it cant?

[solid isle]

unless like Tosoth says, you just copy and paste shit from a map

[hollow laurel]

not in the premade brush prefab sense from what i've seen

[honest stag]

i did exactly that a minute ago

[hollow laurel]

hm?

[honest stag]

just copied and paster

[hollow laurel]

ah

yeah

[solid isle]

oh wait

JACK doesnt either

huh

or at least my version doesnt

[hollow laurel]

i'm thinking of setting up a props.map at some point

[solid isle]

I'm not using the retail version

[crystal lily]

So, is the SDK going to replace Trenchbrooms fucntion?

[solid isle]

no

JACK and TB are the editors

[crystal lily]

Oh ok

[solid isle]

SDK is simply the exposed modding files

and entity support, wads, sounds, etc.

I think there was talk of eventually maybe having their own editor, but idk

seems like a waste tbh

[honest stag]

dont see a reason to tho
if the fgd is made eventually

[solid isle]

JACK and TB are both great and fulfill both ways of map making

[lament ore]

@crystal lily making a map for Dusk is the exact same as making a map for Quake of Half-Life, except some of the entities aren't supported yet (but will be in the future)

also minor differences in the entity properties

[hollow laurel]

which will be covered by the eventual fgd

[lament ore]

but otherwise, the editors and compilers and tools you use are all the same as you would for Quake or HL

[crystal lily]

I'm gonna be honest, Ive only used Hammer editor

[lament ore]

JACK is almost exactly like Hammer except more stable with a couple extra features

[honest stag]

heard that JACK is pretty much a Hammer descendant

[crystal lily]

Not for Goldsource

Yeah, I saw that

[lament ore]

You could even use Hammer if you wanted except there's no reason to use Hammer over JACK

[solid isle]

ehhhh

[crystal lily]

I have like several hundred hours on Hammer(lol) but I still suck

[solid isle]

I wouldnt say that

Hammer has a feel to it that JACK doesnt quite hit

even though its very close

[lament ore]

If that feel is buggy jankiness then sure lmao

[solid isle]

nah

its like snapiness

[lament ore]

Sledge is even closer to Hammer tho if you REALLY want that feel

idk JACK seems perfectly snappy to me

[solid isle]

kind of like if you were playing an FPS and there was a slight delay

[lament ore]

yeah idk I don't feel that in Jack

[solid isle]

Yeah well I use Hammer and JACK both a lot, like a lot

[lament ore]

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mT1phh6dE-BLh3YsVm0AElC_pYpbjF-L

[solid isle]

still feels weird to me

[lament ore]

here's my placeholder dusk.fgd until the official one comes out btw

[crystal lily]

Hammer is really a throwback versus modern editors

[solid isle]

I also use Garry's Mod Hammer, which is actually stable and good

[crystal lily]

Like, geometry being made fo brushes a lot

[solid isle]

because the Facepunch lads actually update it

[crystal lily]

Oh really?

[solid isle]

mhm

[crystal lily]

Whats really weird, is taht apparently the Quake engine cant do glass

[solid isle]

great thing about JACK is you can use Quake and HL both

[spiral nexus]

You can always use VHE 3 for Dusk like a true boomer, if you feel like going through hell of setting it up

[solid isle]

if QUAKE lacks HL stuff, just port your map, or vice versa

[crystal lily]

Hl1 had "glass", but really just func_breakable

[hollow laurel]

heh, i used to have worldcraft 3.1 setup for quake on a previous windows install <_<

[solid isle]

yeah, though func_breakable is now a DUSK feature

[crystal lily]

I guess thats cool

[honest stag]

that's why it can be added even in TB

which is cool

[crystal lily]

But like func_breakable_surf is legit class(Source)

glass

I guess that's too complex or whatever

[solid isle]

Yeah no, breakable is just whatever brush you have set to it "breaks" after a certain amount of HP loss

[crystal lily]

Dusk is 1996, not 1998 tech

[solid isle]

none of that fancy shit

[crystal lily]

I like how we can pick up objects though, like in hl2

[spiral nexus]

Actually can we place pickupable physics objects yet?

[honest stag]

yes

[hollow laurel]

think they're various obj stuff you can place

[honest stag]

and prop_

[hollow laurel]

if you use the kludge fgd

[solid isle]

We'll have custom models/ prop support soon enough too

[crystal lily]

prop_physics

[solid isle]

and hopefully func_physbox like hatsu requested

[crystal lily]

high tech

[solid isle]

basically phys object frozen until you hurt them enough, making for "destructable" brushes

[lament ore]

Once the final FGD comes out your choice of Quake vs HL formats will only really matter in terms of what the BSP itself supports

The entities are all defined in the FGD so it won't matter as far as the entities are concerned

[crystal lily]

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Func_physbox Like "Motion enabled on Damage"

[solid isle]

well, and if you have to stuff a .lit into your project too I guess

Yeah

[lament ore]

that too

[hollow laurel]

you can also add -bsp2 to ericwa's bsp tool to compile to that

[lament ore]

Although I'm not sure if there will be any real advantage to using a Quake BSP over an HLBSP once the full sdk is out

[hollow laurel]

no matter what format the editor is set for

[solid isle]

Not sure what the point is though

[hollow laurel]

yeah

[honest stag]

big john's is closed, go away

[crystal lily]

So, its code in C#?

[lament ore]

BSP2 isn't HLBSP I'm pretty sure

[solid isle]

Nope

[hollow laurel]

i just set it as a just in case

[solid isle]

Code is gonna be C

[hollow laurel]

yeah, bsp2 is basically extended quake bsp

[lament ore]

Scripting will be in C yes

[crystal lily]

Oh ok

[lament ore]

true Boomer mode

classes and generics are for wussies

[solid isle]

Zombie swears that C is the best thing in the world

but I think he is just a boomer

[lament ore]

it is

he is but he's right

[spiral nexus]

True boomers code in Basic

[lament ore]

Plus, if you have to build the compiler/interpreter, C is probably one of the simplest languages to do it for

[hollow laurel]

DuskC

[solid isle]

I just hope it's not super big brain time shit

Would be a really odd choice

and only good for Zombie

[crystal lily]

Any one hear about a Dusk SDK wiki yet?

[hollow laurel]

one will be made

[solid isle]

Can't have one if it's not complete or even nearly there yet

[spiral nexus]

Let's just code in x86 assembly and make everyone suffer

[solid isle]

Or rather it would be a waste

We're still missing all of the entities, sound support, custom models, the actual scripting, and tons of more features

[crystal lily]

Dunno, it could help people in the beta version

[solid isle]

and VIS

and colored lighting for Quake

[crystal lily]

HM2 had a wiki for their editor when it was unfinished

[solid isle]

I'm saying that we're still really early days

if you want to make one go ahead I guess

[spiral nexus]

Idk if we'd really need Dusk SD wiki since it's just Quake/HL mapping

[graceful hinge]

Is there a suspected roof for level size/surface counts in Dusk?

[solid isle]

but I don't think anyone would learn any more than they would from googling TB/JACK and checking the pins here in this channe;

[graceful hinge]

Cz I just made a swimming pool that probably has more surfaces than most quake levels

[solid isle]

no

[spiral nexus]

Just make a Steam guide with some quirks that Dusk has, that could probably be semi useful

[solid isle]

as long as your editor/compiler doesnt care, you'll be fine

[graceful hinge]

Neat

[fluid nimbus]

probably a bit early for a guide on the sdk considering it's gonna change a lot in a somewhat short time frame

[spiral nexus]

Yeah

[solid isle]

Hell, most quirks that you had to do workarounds for in the past week have for the most part been solved

if that tells you anything

and there's bound to be loads more

• new features all of the time

I'd wait until they consider the "mapping" side of it done and they focus more on scripting

[spiral nexus]

Currently only useful info is which Quake/HL entities are replaced with Dusk ones, which shouldn't be a necessary once official FDG is out

[honest stag]

Yeah and mapping seems to be a big focus for both the devs and the modders so it just keeps groey

Growing*

[spiral nexus]

Hopefully Zombie and David won't over-exhaust themselves though

We had been getting hotfixes at quite high pace

[honest stag]

Seems like Zombie loses sleep :(

[spiral nexus]

:(

[solid isle]

It's only because Zombie is generally on when you are

[spiral nexus]

#SleepForZombie

[honest stag]

And i'm losing sleep lol

[fluid nimbus]

he's a zombie

[solid isle]

not sure what timezone he is, but it seems to be 10pm-later morning for me

[honest stag]

17:16 for me

[solid isle]

Well it's technically 2am for me rn

[spiral nexus]

10 am here

[solid isle]

All these gotdamn timetravelers >: (

[lament ore]

sleep is for the weak

zombie has boomer strength

[hollow laurel]

09:00 here

(was a bit arse to wake up seeing that lights mostly work, just as i was going to work <_<)

[lament ore]

12:30am here I work overnight

do we have anything other than the basic light entity yet?

[honest stag]

Not really

[lament ore]

shid

time to light this bitch like babel

[proven agate]

Finally i managed to deal with VHE (it's working omggg), but now using every Light source entity from hl,quake, i see no result. wtf? :D
Someone tell me which one global light source uses Dusk (and not only the global-ones)

[hollow laurel]

light should work

as in the most basic one

[proven agate]

It doen't D:

light from hl?

[hollow laurel]

or quake, same name for them iirc

[proven agate]

k, thanx, il try it out...

[lament ore]

Added key locks to doors and also render mode to func_wall for when transparency is (eventually) supported

Why use VHE over JACK or Sledge?

[hollow laurel]

hardcore mode: use only notepad

[proven agate]

VHE? I dunno, i think that's one of Duskmarish mode thingy 😄

A lot of time somewhere in the 2007-2011's i'm working with that many many times forward and i think that's because. (but anything changes when i find out SSDK, and concentrate all my focus on Src eng)
And yeah, i understand that JACK is better in many ways VHE.

I think i can use them all (no matter how strange and silly it sounds kek)

[spiral nexus]

VHE 3 doesn't have weird quirks JACK has, but personally I use JACK

[proven agate]

There is displasement kind-of-thing yea? in JACK.... (?)

[spiral nexus]

JACK has all the features VHE 3 has

[proven agate]

Oh...

[honest stag]

so how is your mapping going duks

[proven agate]

Hey EmiruFin, I wanted to ask a question, (since you use the jack) where can I get a wad dusk file for hl (wad3) found only here for TB (which have no textures). Thanks.

[spiral nexus]

The WAD3 version of Dusk isn't available yet

Quake WADs work just fine in JACK, they just will look grayscale in the editor

In Dusk they'll have proper colours

[proven agate]

Hmm .. yesterday I tried to overtake (with wally) the textures available in mnt-dusk folder, only 156 were transferred.

they just will look grayscale in the editor! Ohhh.. i see, ok. This just looking weird in the first time 😄

[gritty forge]

Is this a known issue? Using Trenchbroom, I have lights placed in the level. Any surfaces that are completely unlit seem to have flipped textures https://i.imgur.com/hARyNBp.png

If a face is partially unlit then the unlit part will be upside down and the rest will be normal

[honest stag]

... what

Really?

That sounds concerning

[gritty forge]

I think I'm too new to upload files to discord but it's pretty simple to repro. Just set up an environment with a light that doesn't touch one wall, then shine the flashlight on that wall

[honest stag]

I dont think that ever was an issue
Hey try to give your map a "light" value of like 5-10

See if that changes things

Or less like 1

[gritty forge]

Looks like the issue doesn't happen if the light value is 1 or above. At 0.5 the issue still occurs

[honest stag]

Let me try

1 minute

[gritty forge]

Hmm, it might even be happening above 1. It didn't happen with 5

[honest stag]

...wel holy shit

same for me

@ancient depot is that known?

only an issue when not touched by a light

also while that's a problem

just flip the textures which are flipping in-game? @gritty forge

[gritty forge]

lol, I suppose that could work

It's not a problem for now, it seems like adding a small amount of overall light to the world stops it happening

[lament ore]

BRUSH CARS

BRUSH CARS

[honest stag]

I love them ph my god

Are those yours?

[lament ore]

I made it just now yea

http://scmapdb.com/wad:cars

[honest stag]

Wow holy shit
Looks like something i would see in half life

[lament ore]

here's the WAD the textures are from

it's a little blocky but it's a van so eh lol

[honest stag]

Wad3? Orr

[solid isle]

damn those are crusty

good job

[lament ore]

everything on sven co-op WAD database is gonna be WAD3

[honest stag]

Awww

[rapid crown]

@lament ore that truck is great 👌

[lament ore]

thx bbys

[solid isle]

i like the tree jpegs too

if those are yours

[lament ore]

http://scmapdb.com/wad:sunny-woods

that's from here

The sven co-op wad database is great and I highly recommend you all grab some WADs from there

[honest stag]

Does TB support wad3?

[lament ore]

I can't make the forest look decent until HLBSP supports transparency tho

I'm almost certain it does

[honest stag]

Then that's awesome

[lament ore]

grab a wad and find out

[honest stag]

Lemme try

welp

one wad didnt work

i think it supports them for the quake 3 format? probably?

I know i can just use the makewad but i'm actually not having an issue with textures so far - quake and dusk both have great ones
Probably not enough doors tho

[ancient depot]

transparency requires special entity properties

we don't support them yet but trenchbroom might

[rapid crown]

Is there still some work to be done on the lighting? I see for the most part it appears fixed

but I'm still noticing glitches

this appears to be caused by the underside of the ramp?

[ancient depot]

@rapid crown have you tried it in quake to confirm?

[rapid crown]

yup

it's not there mate

[ancient depot]

hm, can you send the bsp?

[rapid crown]

sure

[solid isle]

also recompile if you havent since last update

fixed it for me

[rapid crown]

i did mate

[solid isle]

mmk

[rapid crown]

okay so i fixed it

kinda

I think it was caused by that weird shaped geo overhanging the ramp @ancient depot

[ancient depot]

Still odd that it didn't show up in Quake though

I think it still might be light styles though

Investigating it rn

[rapid crown]

I modified the geo and it fixed it there, but moved it to a different part

no worries

[long anchor]

oh oh

new update?

that fixed lights?

sounds really good

[lament ore]

@@ancient depot iirc most things with transparency in HLBSPs will be func_walls where the render mode is set to "texture" btw

[honest stag]

Yo will there be no way to open dusk maps in map editors?

[ancient depot]

As in the campaign levels?

[honest stag]

Yea

[ancient depot]

We want to get them in a format where you can edit them at some point

[lament ore]

that'll be difficult

[ancient depot]

Whether or not that's Quake editor compatible is another thing entirely, unfortunately

[honest stag]

Oh that would be nice

[graceful hinge]

fuel the creation of Final Dusk

[ancient depot]

Hm, that lightmap thing is... weird

Can't seem to figure out what's causing that

I'll take a better look at it tomorrow, I'm growing tired of lightmaps for one day lmao

[honest stag]

Make David do it

[rapid crown]

lol no problem @ancient depot you're doing stellar work. Just want to keep you on your toes. It's much improved anyway

[ancient depot]

I appreciate the report nonetheless

[honest stag]

looks like a joke to me

[rapid crown]

posted the wrong one haha

[ancient depot]

Yeah Dusk is a pretty bad game

[rapid crown]

looks like a joke to me could be

[lament ore]

dusk babby game

[honest stag]

like come on a guy playing quake tell you about graphic

tells

[rapid crown]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

it caught my eye cuz of what Dave said yesterday

[ivory magnet]

dusk is a bad game

[long anchor]

because it has no graphics so

[small gate]

either that or he just met quake_txt

[honest stag]

yeah go play game with graphic

[ivory magnet]

zero graphic
zero gamplay
zero fun

[small gate]

yeah like br00tal dewm

[honest stag]

dude brutal doom DUDE

[long anchor]

brutal dude

[small gate]

dude is dusk sdk compatible with br00tal dewm

[honest stag]

that's like, yooo dude

there's blood and shit

[small gate]

brutal dude

[honest stag]

fuckin' brutal dude lol

[rapid crown]

out of curiosity does anyone know how to set bounce lighting in TB?

[honest stag]

i'm a dummy - what's bounce lighting?

[rapid crown]

like where a light is cast from a source, and bounces off an object to illuminate another

it's how you get ambient occlusion in more advanced engines, but I'm sure you can get like 1 or 2 bounes in Quake

bounces

which then leads me to wonder if Dusk uses bounce lighting

[honest stag]

have you checked the spawnflags? i think there was something about it???

not sure

[rapid crown]

i haven't actually

can't see anything about bounce

I could be wrong, but I'm sure I read somewhere a while back that Quake could handle 1 or 2 bounces

it's no biggie though

[lament ore]

ericw's tools allow you to mess with that, no?

[rapid crown]

yeah I think they might

[gritty forge]

check https://ericwa.github.io/ericw-tools/

[rapid crown]

in the compiler gui though I'm not sure of any of these are for bounce

oh yeah okay

[gritty forge]

light.exe -bounce mycoolmap.bsp

[rapid crown]

I should've looked there first of course lol

@honest stag not the best example but you can see where the light is filling in the dark areas a little more in the second image

plus overall the map is brighter, due to bounce

[honest stag]

oh that is damn nice looking

works in dusk?

[rapid crown]

but it's totally unecessary cuz you can just use fill lights really. I'm just playing about

Gonna check rn

[lament ore]

@honest stag that's something compiled into the lightmap so yea it should work fine

[honest stag]

so it is just -bounce?

[rapid crown]

yeah it works in dusk

and yes, -bounce in the command line arguments

[honest stag]

wow damn

[honest stag]

can you show how it looks in dusk?

[small gate]

I wonder if there's anyway to import the final BSP with only UVs and prebake lighting with, say, blender instead

[lament ore]

zhlt can do it with the -bounce option btw

[rapid crown]

again not the greatest example as there's no work being done to the lighting other than turning bounce on, but you can see it

[lament ore]

oh, yeah

[hollow laurel]

nice

[rapid crown]

that shows it off better after I removed some lights

huh, interstingly @ancient depot I noticed that lightmap error has gone when I've added -bounce to the compiler

if you look at those 2 last images

just under the right sickle

[small gate]

I wonder if it's gone or mitigated as a product of whatever UV was there became brightened

[rapid crown]

you think if i placed a point light where the glitch is and turn off bounce it might fix it?

[small gate]

itd be an interesting test, that's for sure

but if it's an UV leaking from god knows where it'll be hard finding where to place the light at

[rapid crown]

so i just put a light in front of it and the glitch is still there

hmm there's a ramp just below it, i'll try it there

[lament ore]

oh god lighting this outdoor map is gonna be impossible without light_environment

[small gate]

this is hypothesis, but I imagine this might just be texture filtering grabbing texels from somewhere it shouldnt

[lament ore]

@ancient depot pls god

[rapid crown]

@lament ore can you not use bounce to help fill the lighting out initially?

[small gate]

only one person can know for sure, and he's prob busy with a multitude of other stuff

[honest stag]

my man, let zombie rest, ask David lol

[lament ore]

there's no way I'm gonna be able to light an outdoor map of any considerable size using point light even with bounce

[honest stag]

try a huge ass point light in the sky?

like before

[small gate]

I'd say light your maps good and then test them on, say, half life or quake

[honest stag]

because again, someone cranked it up to 1200

[small gate]

so they'll be just 👌 when support actually drops

[rapid crown]

@small gate so I put a light under the ramp, and that fixed the glitch
@ancient depot

[honest stag]

poor zombie lol

[rapid crown]

no bounce

[small gate]

lmao that is starting to sound a big amount like texture filtering is using texels it shouldnt

but then again the blotch is huge hmm

do you mind giving me the bad/good BSPs?

[rapid crown]

2 mins mate

[small gate]

it's okay, it's not like I'm using this as an excuse to procrastinate either

[rapid crown]

@lament ore I have quite a large test map, with only a few lights in place. This is with and without bounce

@small gate I just took the light out and now the glitch is gone anyway lol

but new ones have appeared in different places

🤔

without light under ramp

with light under ramp

[honest stag]

my lazy ass would just slap some kind of detail work there tbh

[rapid crown]

there's the 2 .bsp if you want to have a look

[rapid crown]

lol

[honest stag]

oh nooooo