whatya expect of a graphics library where your engine is 90% of the way of being the driver itself
#dusk-modding
small gate
ancient depot
iirc the C support sucked too when I checked
hard pollen
Eh PhysX has been a pretty functional physics engine but the GPU accelerated stuff is kinda annoying.
lament ore
no C support is a killer for me. I'll never touch Qt because of that
ancient depot
C support is a right not a privilege
lament ore
ANSI C OR BUST
small gate
physx's death is long overdue
ancient depot
I'm a C11 sinner
hard pollen
I mean PhysX 5 is coming soon.
lament ore
I mean that's fine for an end-user facing project
hard pollen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuKBZlRFpiA But the demo is kinda smelly.
ancient depot
I love my designated initializers and being able to use sizeof with VLA types
lament ore
but libs should be ANSI C if there's a possibility they'll be used outside of Win/Mac/Linux
small gate
C++14 ❤️
lament ore
C++ should die
small gate
C# is making me want to cut my toe off
ancient depot
size_t count = 100;
double *values = malloc(sizeof(double[count]));```It's definitely nice having another open source 3D physics engine to go along with Bullet.
lament ore
C++ should be summarily executed
ancient depot
C++ can burn
hard pollen
I'm a visual scripter so um. I like inefficiency and impaired readability.
small gate
C++14 and beyond is good, but you gotta be pretty careful with what you use otherwise your code becomes unreadable FAST
ancient depot
C++ has some good things, but most of them are just quality of life improvements imo
lament ore
that's always been the issue with C++ and you're telling me it got worse with 14?
hard pollen
Visual scripting is better for shaders though and you can't change my mind.
ancient depot
C++'s biggest mistake is not detaching itself further from C from the start
So it instead changes a bunch of C rules which only complicates matters
and then you get people calling C++ a superset of C
small gate
C++ suffers the same fate as windows, crumbling under the pressure of staying backwards compatible
ancient depot
Yeah
lament ore
God I was looking at the Trenchbroom source code the other day and it's in C++ and I was like "what::the::FUCK::am::I::looking::at"
ancient depot
hahahahaha
solid isle
oof
ancient depot
It's one of the better C++ codebases I've seen at least
lament ore
Welcome to computers where almost everything has a lineage going back at least 20 years
I KNOW
ancient depot
You can actually understand it
lament ore
THAT'S THE PROBLEM
ancient depot
Which is rare for C++
lament ore
with C++
solid isle
sure glad I decided C++ was a big fucking waste of time and smelly
ancient depot
Look up C++ template compiler errors
lament ore
unfortunately C++ does occupy a space that doesn't have a good alternative yet
hard pollen
Fresh starts are cool and all but I kinda like being able to run the large amount of software that's still around for old janky bit of software.
lament ore
D came close but faffed it up
small gate
c++ template errors are unredable with anything not latest GCC/clang
ancient depot
I hope you enjoy getting 1000-column long error lines because you made a typo when working with a template
small gate
msvc messages are useless
solid isle
wake me up when we get H++
ancient depot
also C++ doesn't have designated initializers therefore poop
hard pollen
Wake me up when Godot's 3D support is actually decent.
ancient depot
designated initializers make me happy
solid isle
wake me up when we get c--
small gate
you've got specialized constructors for that honestly
solid isle
oh wait
ancient depot
yeah but you don't get the pretty syntax
solid isle
what the fuck
ancient depot
designated initializers also sorta let you do optional arguments
solid isle
small gate
iirc GCC and Clang both have that as extensions
hard pollen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakespeare_Programming_Language Can the DUSK SDK be scripted with this instead?
small gate
it's only MSVC is garbage and "only supports C++"
ancient depot
struct FuncArgs
{
int a, b, c, d;
};
void Func(struct FuncArgs *args)
{
// do stuff
}
// ...
Func(&(struct FuncArgs) { .a = 5, .b = 2 });```Fun fact about terminals and backwards compatibility: the reason UNIX (including Linux/Mac) provides you with a terminal "emulator" is because it's emulating the command set supported by the old VT-100 terminals, which itself is mostly compatible with the older typewriter terminals of the pre-70s.
solid isle
I will only write dusk scripts if they're in the form of shakespearean plays
lament ore
This means you can hook up your modern computer terminal emulator to a typewriter terminal with relatively little effort
ancient depot
@solid isle My obsession with vertical alignment and code aesthetic will probably make the scripts read like one
small gate
when is Dusk getting ported to TempleOS @ancient depot
lament ore
@ancient depot you are a man of culture I see
small gate
no historical cludge there
solid isle
yeah but, why not go all the way
ancient depot
when Unity supports it
solid isle
and make it in SPL
hard pollen
Yeah but why not just complete it all by just using the Shakespeare programming language.
still raptor
The backflips zombie does for vertical alignment are out of control
ancient depot
80 column line restriction master race
lament ore
You can relatively reasonably map Linux syscalls to TempleOS syscalls so in theory, if you were willing to put in the time and effort, someone could port the Linux version of Dusk to TempleOS....
lament ore
I remember reading an article someone wrote on porting Linux binaries to TempleOS
@ancient depot that's an understatement
real shame what happened to terry.
small gate
if you said that to the man when he was still alive he'd probably go on a huge rant about people glowing in the dark
ancient depot
Yeah, the mental healthcare system failed him
hard pollen
EGA mode 10h master race.
lament ore
people
solid isle
640x480 resolution, 16-color display and single audio voice, as god intended
ancient depot
Terry was a genius but he was very sick, and never got the help he needed
lament ore
yea no the mental healthcare system in this country is broken as shit where it works at all
small gate
his story is sad as hell
hard pollen
320x200 16 colours is the true way of displaying images.
small gate
@hard pollen stretched to 4:3 pls
hard pollen
Yeah.
small gate
now we're talking
hard pollen
Has to be in 4:3 as well.
lament ore
I was hospitalized once as a kid. Was only allowed outside once in the entire 5 days I was there. Only got to see the doctor once. It was 100% more just a prison sentence to keep me away from society rather than actually trying to help me
hard pollen
None of that 16:10 stuff.
solid isle
Makes me wonder the kind of shit he could have done if he didn't have those problems
ancient depot
He definitely could've done amazing things
You can see glimmers of it during his few moments of clarity
hard pollen
Hey Zombie when're we getting tall pixels for DUSK?
ancient depot
lmao
lament ore
In a way he made a more notable achievement BECAUSE of his problems. He absolutely did not need to suffer because of his problems, however.
solid isle
tall... pixels?
small gate
the moments of him being self aware are honestly some of the most heartbreaking stuff I've seen
hard pollen
Y'know, how some pixels aren't perfectly 1:1
small gate
dude only needed a hand
solid isle
so you make them T A L L?
lament ore
Dude needed better parents and a better healthcare system and had neither unfortunately
hard pollen
(At least in the context of images intended for CRTS)
lament ore
Yea. He was traveling with some native american prostitute at one point
It was uh, not a good situation
OH SHIT I GOTTA SHOW YOU GUYS A PHOTO
I GOTTA FIND IT
small gate
btw fuck SPL, brainfuck is where esotericism is at
at least its easier to read than template errors
hard pollen
I dunno man Piet is pretty cool.
still raptor
Lisp is where esotericism begins and ends 😉
solid isle
Hello World in Brain Fuck:
ancient depot
lmao
solid isle
++++++++[>++++[>++>+++>+++>+<<<<-]>+>+>->>+[<]<-]>>.>---.+++++++..+++.>>.<-.<.+++.------.--------.>>+.>++.
small gate
((((whats so) esoteric)) about this))
ancient depot
(Lisp(is(where(esotericism(begins(and(ends)))))))
ancient depot
Piet is a funny idea but it's also an interesting way of storing bytecode for GPU consumption
ivory magnet
Hello reimu
small gate
pure lisp or logo?
hard pollen
Blueprint is pretty esoteric.
small gate
logo is at least """"""""""fun""""""""""""""
still raptor
Pure afaik
small gate
jfc he's insane
solid isle
chef makes me laugh
ancient depot
I wonder how complex SPIR-V is
solid isle
ancient depot
I could make the ubershader idea just interpret SPIR-V
hard pollen
I just think that UE4's material editor is like, the pinnacle of the art form.
solid isle
imagine being so bored that you make a language out of recipes
hard pollen
Unity Shadergraph doesn't come close.
small gate
it's more about being wAcKy
solid isle
it gives me a chuckle at least
small gate
@ancient depot weak, make it out of Game of Life cells
ancient depot
lmao
lament ore
hard pollen
Blender's material editor is also okay, but not as built up as UE4's
lament ore
WE REPPIN OUR BOY
still raptor
LOL
solid isle
nice
small gate
nice
ancient depot
lmao
torpid agate
Really vibin
hard pollen
Also when're we getting the DUSK shader 2?
solid isle
what the fuck is fibe
solid isle
it looks like something you would drink, thinking its a beverage, but is actually like, soy sauce or some shit
still raptor
For helping you pass fibe checks
solid isle
its actually a sauce made of fish scales
drink up
anyway, super important question
how about them uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
SOUNDS
small gate
slap yourself in the forehead and youll hear one
solid isle
could really use me some ambient generic if you know what im sayin
hard pollen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_EKVu4NKAs func_physbox is a right not a privilege.
lament ore
ambient_generic is a right not a privilege
small gate
if func_physbox drops before func_vehicle I will fucking riot
hard pollen
How else will we make our incredibly expensive and slow fake DMM levels?
lament ore
100 kbps internet is pain. I should've checked if the sdk worked on the mac version before I left for work RIP
solid isle
if info_player_start is so good, why aint there an info_player_start2???
wait
YOOOOOOOO
small gate
that looks like these early physx demos " WOW AMAZING PHYSICS BASED FRACTURING "
and yet the character doesnt interact with any of it and the game is running at 30fps
ancient depot
start2 is what the game uses when you return to the episode select map in quake lmao
we haven't implemented it yet though
solid isle
yeah
i just saw it and wanted to make the joke
solid isle
yeah I didn't even realize it was a thing till now
hard pollen
Hey Zombie how do you feel about voxels?
ancient depot
I like them
solid isle
how do you feel about ambient generic
lament ore
put that on the blood steam page
hard pollen
I like em too, for some things.
small gate
anyone who doesn't like voxels is not a good person
lament ore
"I like them" - Dusk developer "Darth Zombie" on the topic of voxels
hard pollen
Key word being some. I don't think voxels are a replacement for polygons.
ancient depot
My feelings on ambient_generic are that it is unimplemented
solid isle
: (
lament ore
RIOT
solid isle
should have released the SDK with ambient_generic support only
no lights
no entities
just SOUND
lament ore
deaf accessibility
solid isle
we can LISTEN to our maps
hard pollen
And also func_vehicle and func_physbox.
lament ore
see-ers fuck off
solid isle
I'll hear my way around E1M1
lament ore
@hard pollen engine and ragdoll sounds echoing in the infinite black void
small gate
beautiful, you can hear shit but you cant spawn to use the func_vehicles
because the spawn ents were not implemented
hard pollen
func_voxel.
lament ore
I saw a video on a blind guy who plays Doom (albeit with cheats). I wonder if you could pull off an FPS where you can't see.
voxel terrains NOW
hard pollen
You probably could but it'd be hard to make.
spiral nexus
Zombie is actually trying to spare us from the disaster that func_vehicle's are
solid isle
There's a guy on reddit apparently who's famous for reviewing video games blind
literally
lament ore
func_vehicle is the only thing keeping me alive in this desolate world
hard pollen
There's a lot of games that do like, echo location but a game where you can't see anything would definitely be hard to do.
small gate
nah man play that doom version where all frames are rendered with stereograms
now thats the real deal
spiral nexus
It'll be the promised day of the reckoning once func_vehicles are supported
hard pollen
Func_vehicle is a right not a privilege.
lament ore
david let me program func_vehicle
small gate
the great sdk heist, avain doxes zombie so we can steal his hdd and implement func_vehicle
spiral nexus
Christian mothers against func_vehicles
lament ore
DUSK NIPPER MAPS NOW
that's the author name of a famous series of func_vehicle maps don't cancel me pls
torpid agate
Canceled
lament ore
func_bloom
honest stag
oh my god this is bothering me so much - i feel like there is something wrong with this scene but i cant figure out what (i already posted this but it didnt bother me earlier, the scene is unchanged anyway)
small gate
spiral nexus
Are y'all stanning func_vehicle
lament ore
y'know func_illusionary is kinda like fake bloom
honest stag
like there is just... something not right
small gate
this but on DUSK
solid isle
its because it's orange and has bloom
lament ore
@honest stag in what way? composition or?
honest stag
I have no clue
maybe the lighting? maybe the layout? i cant put my finger on it
solid isle
seems visually noisy
small gate
the vertical torches on the map for some reason are screaming MINECRAFT for me
solid isle
lots of lines everywhere in the textures
lament ore
It's a little bit noisy. You could do better to draw the player's eye to a specific point
solid isle
clashing vertical and horizontal lines
lament ore
There's a lot going on in the entire lit area
honest stag
maybe i'll give the celling a plain-ish texture instead, see if that helps
solid isle
honest stag
or i dunno
lament ore
Yeah I would maybe not use that iron-bar-on-wood-planks texture there
lament ore
they kinda draw your eye into the corner whereas you should be drawing the player's eye to that coffin thing
solid isle
use something like a panel texture, or tiles, or something smooth
honest stag
alright thank you fellas, lemme try that
solid isle
Also might just be the orange, but we'll have to wait for colored lighting support
to try different stuff other than white and orange
lament ore
what you mean wait for colored lighting support?
honest stag
yeah i wish i could do that
lament ore
I thought we already had colored lights
solid isle
you cant use colored lighting
honest stag
i want a blue-themed level, like a really cold one
lament ore
WAT
solid isle
Yeah, .lit files arent supported yet
lament ore
colored lighting is a right not a privilege
solid isle
the thing that stores lightmap color values
works in Quake/ HL
but appears white in DUSK
lament ore
they aren't just embedded into the bsp?
lament ore
huh, didn't know that
gritty forge
but half-life has colored lights and that's supported
solid isle
well HL maps do
lament ore
yeah okay that's what I thought
solid isle
do they work in DUSK with HL maps?
gritty forge
also Q3
lament ore
I've only ever done HL maps so lol
gritty forge
I think so
solid isle
yeah so it's just Quake then
ancient depot
We support coloured lighting in HLBSP
solid isle
because . L I T
ancient depot
It's just QBSP & BSP2 that doesn't support coloured lighting because yeah, .lit files
lament ore
Dusk confirmed not lit
solid isle
fuck, at this point I might as well just switch to HL
gritty forge
I mean do it
solid isle
it's apparently got the most functionality in JACK
gritty forge
you just need to grab the half-life compilers really
solid isle
I got them
lament ore
rlly wish I could get zhlt to not output that gotdamn black lightmap so I don't have to do lighting while I'm still designing the map
gritty forge
I use the ones from sven coop
solid isle
I think I already have ZHLT from a long time ago as my compiler
lament ore
as far as I'm aware ZHLT is by far the best compiler toolset to use for HL maps except in this specific instance of Dusk
I'll check out the Sven ones though if that lets me set the default light level properly
although I doth wish Dusk just had a mat_fullbright 1 cheat like Half-Life
gritty forge
well I really just switched to it after the normal half-life sdk one didn't work for me
lament ore
yeah I honestly wouldn't use anything from the HL1 SDK
Valve hasn't touched any of that since, well, before HL2
honest stag
that should be better i think? man i spent a lot of time making that coffin and David even helped me but there's still something wrong with it even tho it has everything i want
gritty forge
Yeah cus it's bsp compiler doesn't know what the fuck a non-C drive is
oh god
the blood coffin
lament ore
That looks a lot better with the new textures. Still could do more to draw the player's eye to the coffin though. Maybe get rid of the chandlier, dim the room, and add a light source like, near or inside the coffin itself?
Should really POP compared to the rest of the room I think
honest stag
oh man yeah what if it looked like the inside of the coffin is glowing
lament ore
yea
honest stag
i can actually do that 1 sec
long anchor
hey @honest stag is that your new map?
gritty forge
Give me those red lights Vriska
honest stag
yep
that's the fourth map i ever made i think?
i made some mistakes with the church map so i'm kinda borrowing the style but improving more
http://skrinshoter.ru/i/070120/F2WaYzaw.png
so i'm kinda trying to min-max this and see the middle ground - of all the lights i only left 2 - one directly in the coffin and one outside so you can see around you
i kinda like the lack of light now, leaves more to the imagination i guess?
c'mon embed
lament ore
hol up lemme load this on my 100kbps internet
honest stag
shit it loaded twice
lament ore
I should really just get a Verizon unlimited plan and use a hotspot at this point
gritty forge
hell ye
lament ore
o ya that looks a lot better
honest stag
ey thanks for the help, i'll keep polishing it
...and then i'll actually make another room
lament ore
shame we don't have access to that "pulsating flesh" vertex shader from episode 3 or I'd tell ya to stick it inside that coffin
honest stag
ohhhh yeah that would be awesome
lament ore
I wonder if you should light up that stained glass a little bit or if that would take away too much from the coffin
like make it look like there's light coming from behind and eminating through the glass
probably wouldn't look that good without access to a spotlight-type light tho
UNLESS
you could try lighting it just with a light but then put func_illusionaries around the edges of the glass and kinda coming down towards the coffin if you know what I mean
honest stag
you know i think i can make a spotlight-style thing by shoving a dusk lightpost into the wall behind the window, but setting the angle would be fucky
honest stag
are those even supported tho lol
lament ore
I think they are
I doubt any of the gradients to use with it are in dusk.wad tho
you'd have to use some from Half-Life
or just make your own
honest stag
so the scene was kind too dark to walk around in when i tried it, and i readded 2 candles
still raptor
i would be careful using too many candles
honest stag
i'll replace some textures
still raptor
theyre not good for performance
honest stag
yeah i know, but i dont really have a better option for moody lighting
i'll be careful tho
hollow laurel
ooh, looks cool
small gate
straight up improvement
honest stag
i'll refreain from posting small changes to not spam
small gate
as long as you're not spamming it during a convo, I don't see the problem
others might disagree, idk, but I really don't see the issue
gritty forge
are the candles just a normal light source?
gritty forge
oh okey
honest stag
(euler has to be at 0 90 0 for them to stand right)
gritty forge
I guess those are dynamic lights
sterile junco
i was looking through the trenchbroom entitys and being like "theres gotta be more"
lament ore
yeah that looks great @honest stag
honest stag
ey thanks
lament ore
@sterile junco yeah there's a whole shit load of props and stuff, I didn't put em in my fgd because placeholder models don't do ya any good for placing set dressing
honest stag
so i think i said it before but in the future when scripting is added (i have no clue how to code btw) i wanted to replace the flashlight with a lantern-type thing that shines around you instead of a direction
could help with spooky levels
gritty forge
Understandable
balmy thorn
Can someone walk me through how to teleport in enemies?
I'm used to an actual monster maker entity
gritty forge
I don't think we have an entity for that right now
so you would have to use a teleporter
honest stag
i really like adding secrets lol, and i KNOW players would jump into the coffin
just need a way back now
gritty forge
Bounce pad
honest stag
nah just a ladder
gritty forge
@balmy thorn trigger_teleport ?? maybe
honest stag
shit, you can hear the hallowed health making noise :(
balmy thorn
😑
honest stag
dumptruck has a great tutorial on how to do that, but will that work when moving to dusk?
lament ore
there's no trigger_teleport in the entities.txt but there is a object_teleporter
gritty forge
then you have like a button or something point to the trigger_releport
lament ore
not sure if it was just left out or if object_teleporter is the intended use
gritty forge
don't know
honest stag
trigger_teleport works (at least for the player)
david said object_teleport can teleport anything including entire levels
but i couldnt get it to work
gritty forge
I have trigger_teleport in my entities.txt
lament ore
o, huh, you're right
Anyway, @balmy thorn the SDK isn't -fully- out yet, we just have our hands on a partial implementation with little to no documentation. What's in the pinned messages is about as good as it gets rn, so you'll either have to experiment or wait for the full thing. You can also ask @ancient depot when he's around
balmy thorn
Yeah I know. I'm doing some playtesting and wanted enemies to teleport in at a certain point, but I'll hold it off for now and stick to what works in the current build.
honest stag
soooo i think there can be a very, very silly way of doing things
make a button which connects to a vertical door outside of the map which the enemies stand on and a trigger_teleport below it
button opens door - door makes enemies fall into the teleport
might be a bootleg solution and might not work
lament ore
Lads I am BLOCKING
It's actually kinda fun not being able to play the game and test the map atm and just being forced to think about it lol
honest stag
aw yeah
lament ore
Going for that classic Romero U-shape for my first map
gritty forge
think you can just have a button activate the teleport trigger
lament ore
Speaking of, @ancient depot monster maker or something equivalent will be implemented ya? It's not in entities.txt but it's something pretty fundamental I think
ancient depot
It will
The answer to any "is X entity going to be added?" question is usually "yes" if it's from Quake or GoldSrc
honest stag
same
i might even update my older shitty maps with it
ancient depot
also, keep in mind that the entity names for dusk-specific stuff aren't final
but do not worry
I'll be publishing a migration tool that can auto-update .map and .bsp files once we start changing them
lament ore
sweet
Does anyone else have JACK up? Is it just me or does JACK not properly support Quake textures
Because DUSK.wad is grayscale as are the placeholder Quake models in JACK
ancient depot
that sounds like you're missing a palette
lament ore
possibly although palette.lmp is in there where it should be
honest stag
MrMuffinz uses JACK
spiral nexus
@lament ore Quake wads will be grayscale in JACK
It's probably something to do with JACK, in Dusk they'll show up properly
I attempted to create a wad using lump file found in hl1 folder, but it was still grayscale in editor
lament ore
yeah there's an option for a palette file there but it's grayed out. odd
I could've SWORN they were working fine earlier though....
spiral nexus
Also JACK seems to use ASCII and Dusk wad (found in this Discord) UTF so some textures will prevent you from compiling the map due to weird characters
lament ore
Well, I guess I can always just make a WAD3 version of Dusk.wad, and it's not really a big deal (albeit annoying) if the models are grayscale
iirc darth was planning to make dusk.wad wad3 anyway
spiral nexus
It shouldn't be a problem if you use Wally to create custom wad files, but makewad will result in grayscale textures as well as currently pinned dusk wad
spiral nexus
Also remember to package your WAD with the BSP in JACK @lament ore
Otherwise textures won't show up
clear beacon
has arcane dimensions been ported yet
fringe nymph
you dont port it you just launch it
fluid nimbus
arcane dimension maps still don't load properly iirc
well they do, they just take forever
honest stag
i have something awesome planned for this room and the green thing. god it's gonna be cool (even tho dusk did it already)
honest stag
so the color is kinda fucked in the recording, pretend it's quake
BUT CHECK THIS SHIT OUT MY DUDES
(it's not final but the thing actually works)
i put a teleport inside of that thing
so you hit it and it takes you somewhere cool
oh man i'm so excited
i found the grappler in the entities file just now and this idea came to me
gritty forge
I like it except the yellow black striped texture
honest stag
yeah that should go probably
gritty forge
Doesn't seem to fit
It's like there is a work in progress in a cult church?
Who did they hire?
honest stag
lol kind of yes
i have a shitty storyline in my head
like ok so there is the coffin which you spawn beside
that's supposed to be yours right?
and while you were sleep the cult starts building weird shit from the anomalous things in your uhhhh tomb i guess?
so you kind of see a mix of old/mysterious and industrial/magic like dusk ep2
...i'll replace the texture
sooo this room is WIP but the main quirk works thank god
gravity "flips" even if it is just an illusion!
i probably should somehow make it obvious for the player to shoot this green thing if they havent seen it before
man i wish we had in-game text
i also need to move the teleporter destination to the center of the green thing
thankfully it has no collision
gritty forge
Looks cool dude
honest stag
ey thanks
it's nowhere near as cool as the dusk version of gravity flipping but i'm happy
i'm so glad it looks kind of seamless because you move at a high speed and the green thing obstructs vision
gritty forge
the gravity flipping level is a hack anyway
graceful hinge
so many leaks ;w;
gritty forge
Seal ur map 
honest stag
...uhhh i dont see any
Am i blind
honest stag
Ohhhh sorry lol
hollow laurel
comes home, tries to map a bit, cat is cuddly and gets in the way
hollow laurel
nope
gritty forge
i am petting mine right now
hollow laurel
mine's in my lap, partially, front is up on the wrist rest (and sometimes he stretches one front leg out, at times pushing buttons)
crude cedar
hollow laurel
(yesterday he upgraded a trait in remnant for me... at least he hasn't done anything destructive to my map yet, though that paw gets really close to delete at times :p )
gritty forge
He'a being paid off by quake_txt to delete all your Dusk maps
hollow laurel
nooooo
honest stag
Trenchbroom autosaving saved my ass a number of times btw, love it
hollow laurel
(and he's not going to do something that can't be solved with ctrl+z :p )
iron needle
patch going out
This changes how Dusk scales imported bsps so don't be alarmed if your levels look slightly bigger than before
eventually we'll probably have the scale factor be customizable
crude cedar
I had to relog into steam yesterday so I had a bit of worry when the sdk beta wasn't showing up
but I just had to put the code in again
dunno if that broke all the changes I made for it
civic sentinel
Out of curiosity what file type will the models be once we are able to change them? Just so I can make some new gun models ahead of time 😁
iron needle
@ancient depot
ancient depot
IQM
hollow laurel
aaah, patch
also, started making a graveyard area in front of the church thing
crude cedar
kinda dark
hollow laurel
well, haven't lit it yet, since borked
apart from a few scant lights so it's not completely black everywhere
civic sentinel
@ancient depot thanks!
ancient depot
np
hollow laurel
hahaha
long anchor
Pickups will no longer spawn with incorrect rotations.
goddammit
graceful hinge
oh no all my props lmaooo
long anchor
ok i like this patch
long anchor
as i said, it brought laughs
hollow laurel
wherelampslie.bsp
graceful hinge
at least now i have a sideways barrel stack
iron needle
hopefully they should all just be correct now
hollow laurel
also, yay for Doors and buttons now support messages., now i get my messages from buttons and stuff again
graceful hinge
so im guessing getting rid of our euler tweaks will fix the existing issues
long anchor
i still gonna use euler to rotate objects
mortar blasts still don't affect func_breakables tho
also welder explosions
graceful hinge
shootable button working, no message without direct push tho
long anchor
0/10 deleting game
shootable button working, no message without direct push tho
i guess those messages are for direct push only
as far as i remember
there's something like
trigger_message, no?
graceful hinge
oh? ill give it a squiz
iron needle
not in Quake no
they do messages with just normal triggers
trigger_once and trigger_multiple
iron needle
You sure messages don't work when you shoot them?
hollow laurel
a button i have to open a secret only gave message when used, not shot
long anchor
so you can make shootable button trigger something and trigger the message, right?
wait
so message have to appear when you shoot it?
hollow laurel
well, they should if set
long anchor
i see
iron needle
so you can make shootable button trigger something and trigger the message, right? in theory that should work
fast ridge
hmm
Some of the secret doors are a bit weird for me on Slipgate
Like won't react if I shoot em, move into em, press action on them
fast ridge
Old game is bad game
crude cedar
ye
iron needle
@fast ridge which ones?
fast ridge
The SSG, Nailgun, and the armor area near the start of the level
iron needle
ssg and nailgun should all function
nailgun should open when you pick up the MG, ssg should open by shooting the thing
sure you got the update?
fast ridge
Just updated it a bit ago yeah
I'll give it another try if it doesn't work I'll let you know
iron needle
yeah I just tried it in the project and they work for me
fast ridge
Might try repacking the files see if it works
iron needle
checking the build
yup works for me in build too
wait
what weapon are you using?
iron needle
weird
fast ridge
Some buttons work some don't
iron needle
anyone else have the same issue?
iron needle
?
long anchor
1 sec
- for some reason these 2 soldier bois are startled right from the beginning, that didn't happen earlier
fast ridge
Everything seems to be working for the most part
long anchor
- i can't place those streetlights properly
i mean
i tried rotating them with euler
ok for some reason i turned them upside down with the first numbers in euler which is strange cause it's usually second number
iron needle
Enemy rotation changed with this update cause of rotation fixes for prefabs. Are you able to get them to face away from you with Euler adjustments?
long anchor
i didn't think about euler for enemies huh
let me try
actually
i can clearly see that they are on their proper positions when level starts
same with other enemies on the level
mortal narwhal
dude that map is looking really good btw
long anchor
thanks
mortal narwhal
I'm also having the same issue
long anchor
with enemies seeing you with their backs?
long anchor
blood joke?
hollow laurel
hmm, guess the angles prop for say func_door from goldsrc doesn't work yet?
small gate
beer books
mortal narwhal
well, the enemies facing 90 degrees from where they are in the editor
rapid crown
What fgd are using for entities @long anchor
ancient depot
@hollow laurel it should be angle, not angles
mortal narwhal
but euler rotation werks
rapid crown
The one someone posted earlier?
long anchor
yep
rapid crown
Map looks great dude
ancient depot
Unless goldsrc supports doors that go in any direction
long anchor
@lament ore made his custom fgd
ancient depot
in which case we can add that
hollow laurel
well, there's that in hlbsp for pitch/yaw/roll in goldsrc
long anchor
@mortal narwhal but for me they are placed just like before patch!
yet they notice me...
mortal narwhal
wth, maybe try on a new test map?
long anchor
i'll try
hollow laurel
hm, i can find it on twhl's wiki for goldsrc.... i'll have to see if i still have worldcraft lying around somewhere
graceful hinge
ok all remedied
note, the prop_barrel_wood appears to not be lighting properly
when sideways*
works when normal way up
hollow laurel
(also, doesn't conflict with whatever i was doing, just that doors weren't moving as they should)
iron needle
@long anchor likely what's happening is they are still at the same angle in TB but Dusk now spawns them differently so that angle isn't actually reflecting how they spawn
We may need to look into fixing enemy rotation specifically
long anchor
as i said, their angle is still the same on the map
mortal narwhal
whats up with thaaat
long anchor
god we really need notarget cheat
graceful hinge
am i right to assume the weird lighting issues the props have, whether being way too light or dark, are a fix to come and not something I'm doing wrong? 😮
because textures are all there well and good, just sometimes its mostly white and sometimes you can only flashlight the texture up
iron needle
@long anchor right, trenchbroom is still going to show the same angle, but Dusk does different things with rotation now so they may not actually be spawning at that angle
graceful hinge
im playing around with the ones without it that ive found at least :p
toxic forge
If you are mapping with Quake profile, Trenchbroom uses angles for example: angles 0 60 0. If Dusk is using angle instead, just add angle key and copy middle value. One of them should be ignored when compiled
long anchor
@iron needle i was trying to say that they have same ingame rotation as in TB cause i can clearly see their back in the beginning but it seems like they really ARE wrongly rotated, it's just me being blind and dum dum again sorry
iron needle
Hmm
iron needle
We'll need to fix it so that they show their proper rotation in TB
mortal narwhal
Should I adjust the enemies' angles now, or wait for a fix?
ancient depot
Your choice, really
Depends if you want to spend the time going through and removing the values after it's fixed
mortal narwhal
ah, I see
toxic forge
Trenchbroom suports angle angles and mangle now it all depends on what entity you use it. Light usually use angle for spotlights and mangle to set proper direction. angles are used to position enemies. My guess is it all depends on what game profile you choose. If there was HL profile, angle could probably be main rotation key.
iron needle
Luckily enemy rotation doesn't actuallyatter that much after the start of the level, since as soon as you fire a gun enemies ignore field of view anyway
mortal narwhal
do they aggro through walls?
if they hear you?
nvm just answered my own question
ancient depot
I see, thanks for the info @toxic forge
long anchor
there's still one thing about streetlights that bothers me: one on left is euler 0 0 0 the right one is 270 0 0
so x is making it lie on the ground for some reason, not y
gritty forge
angels is for the rotation of the object angle is the direction doors move and stuff
iron needle
@long anchor streetlight thing is new with this patch right?
gritty forge
actually that might not be true
long anchor
you mean object itself?
hollow laurel
okay, now i have no idea where those values came from, since i started these maps in worldcraft 3 with the quake adapter thingamajig
and i can't be arsed to do that install again :p
iron needle
@long anchor the rotation weirdness
long anchor
yeah, this patch
iron needle
Hmm ok
gritty forge
angle = 180
angles = 0, 0, 0
angle is one number (or -1 -2)
angles is 3 numbers
they both do the same thing
just angles is like a new thing that wasn't in base quake
ancient depot
Yeah, we have angles as euler currently, just needs an alias which is no biggie
long anchor
Luckily enemy rotation doesn't actuallyatter that much after the start of the level, since as soon as you fire a gun enemies ignore field of view anyway
but you need to pick up the gun before you start shooting, eh?
hollow laurel
yeah, just trying to remember when i input those (since it might've been years ago, and i might've been quite drunk as well)
gritty forge
why not just have it as angels
long anchor
my level begins stealthy, like, you jump over the fence and no one sees you
toxic forge
@ancient depot ok, I just double checked, angle works too in TB. Both angles and angle works. By default rotate tool insert angle. When you manually set angles instead, rotate tool will update angles and never add angle. So now you can end with a situation where user sets angles instead of angle and TB will update wrong key.
good luck
toxic forge
also same thing applies to mangle
ancient depot
I assume mangle is a single number and not a vector
toxic forge
vector
ancient depot
Wonder why mangle was picked instead of mangles then, since it'd be more consistent
But oh well
toxic forge
but you have to deliberately type it in monster entity keys, to have it available, cause it's mostly used by lights
gritty forge
also zombie I have 2 videos of bugs
long anchor
hallowed health doesn't emit any sounds for some reason
ancient depot
Let's see 'em
Also I'm hoping to get transparency support in within the next patch or so, it's starting to get really annoying to see the transparent colour everywhere
ancient depot
yes
long anchor
how about shooting through?
ancient depot
I believe that's handled through a spawn flag or a property, I forget
gritty forge
Okey so this one is just that you bounch up and down when you release the crouch key under something
ancient depot
It's like 3:30 AM and I'm half asleep so I can't really remember how any of that shit works rn
@gritty forge I believe that happens on regular maps too
Just a weird Dusk-ism
long anchor
^
gritty forge
Yeah prolly
Heres a scarecrow that managed to clip into the the ground when he walked from the blue bridge thing into the room
ancient depot
Before even watching the video I'm gonna say that's a navmesh issue
You'll get similar stuff happening on say, Quake E1M1 atm
crude cedar
video too large
ancient depot
Enemies might warp to a lower platform when the navmesh correction messes up
crude cedar
for embed
ancient depot
soon™️, there's no support for quake-style water for similar reasons there's no transparency support yet
toxic forge
btw player has height of 56 units, should help in achieving proper scale
graceful hinge
dusk has taught me quake dude is a manlet
rapid crown
Ranger is 56u, think Duskdude is taller?
ancient depot
I believe David messed around with having a Quake-accurate scale earlier but it didn't feel right with Dusk's movement
graceful hinge
like absolute 5 footer
iron needle
It wasn't just that it didn't feel right, it's that Dusk's step height is smaller than Quakes so you couldn't walk up any stairs
ancient depot
Ah, right
iron needle
And also that HL seems to have a different scale so you'd end up tiny in HL maps lol
graceful hinge
honey i hunt down the freeman
scarlet fjord
duskdude tries it!: Hunting down the freeman
crude cedar
dies
iron needle
Funnily enough I think Dusk scale feels more correct in Quake levels than actual Quake scale
rapid crown
I know everyone is using TB or Jack, but is there a way to use ProBuilder/RealtineCSG or whatever for making maps for Dusk/the SDK? Just asking cuz id like to get more proficient in Unity LD.... Im not technically proficient enough to know if that sounds stupid or not lol
long anchor
duskdude tries it!: Hunting down the freeman
you fucked up my face!
ancient depot
I know everyone is using TB or Jack, but is there a way to use ProBuilder/RealtineCSG or whatever for making maps for Dusk/the SDK? Just asking cuz id like to get more proficient in Unity LD.... Im not technically proficient enough to know if that sounds stupid or not lol
No immediate plans for that, but in the future maybe
rapid crown
Okay no worries, thanks @ancient depot
small gate
YOU FUCKED UP MY FACE
long anchor
i.. i can explain...
spiral nexus
My fellow Americans
small gate
wish there was a gnome emoji
crude cedar
we could make that
long anchor
^
sour hollow
hmm new Dusk update
spiral nexus
Star Wars prequels in Dusk
hollow laurel
looks like func_door_secret uses the standard func_door flags
spiral nexus
Big John has the high ground
long anchor
place health potions that triggers teleports and now it's flooded with hundreds of enemies
sour hollow
Serious Sam in DUSK.
long anchor
hunt down the serious duskdude: the prequel: the game
sour hollow
lmao
small gate
would dusk enemies work on a larger scale like the good ssam encounters?
small gate
eh, as long as you dont make things too open, maybe twice as big as E3M9 per arena
long anchor
i guess we can't make proper dusk buttons rn, eh?
civic sentinel
With the iqm models I’m having trouble keeping the animations working any thoughts?
iron needle
@long anchor you should be able to re-create pretty much all Dusk functionality with Quake buttons atm
but probably in the future you'll be able to spawn Dusk buttons also
ancient depot
@civic sentinel Are you using the official Blender exporter?
iron needle
well, all functionality except Duke3d codes but nobody liked those anyway lol
civic sentinel
@ancient depot I wasn’t I didn’t know you could export it as .iqm on blender, I was using noesis
fringe nymph
what dn3d codes
civic sentinel
That’s my problem then, I’ll have to check out exporting it on blender, do I need anything to be able to do that?
still raptor
You'll have to download the iqm plugin
iron needle
@fringe nymph the ones in Dusk where you have to guess the combination
fringe nymph
oh the poozles battons
civic sentinel
Thanks I will do that
fringe nymph
its quite over the top
onyx marten
looks more like a lamp than a button
small gate
can't you just make it.... less intense?
long anchor
nope
small gate
well shit
modest imp
Custom sprite time? :v
gritty forge
I think the texture you use already points at a door that can be opened
no need to make it "hey little baby gamer, there is a switch here!"
modest imp
I'd personally tone it down to a more subtle red, but make it blink on and off. Motion is easier to pick up on in a game like DUSK than light intensity.
If something's moving or blinking, it ain't just background stuff.
modest imp
Don't be afraid to use level lighting to draw attention towards it, too!
Lights can organically point players in the right direction by giving them a better-lit target.
Putting stuff in the spotlight, so to speak.
long anchor
i tried to use level light but it felt kinda unnatural since the button looks like it's not emitting any light
about spotlights
i think you can change light intensity(?) in quake, not in dusk tho
not rn at least
modest imp
Just have a light that attracts attention to that area in particular, then use the blinking red button sprite to entice the player into using it.
Maybe drop an enemy or two in front of it so the player has to pay attention to that spot. :V
modest imp
Lighting up the sign could work, too. Like how highway signs are brightly lit.
modest imp
If it works, I guess. :P
crude cedar
I would say if the button is right next to the door then it's not hard to miss
modest imp
I dunno, the level is pretty dark. It'd be easy for it to blend in with its surroundings.
long anchor
but i missed it lol
long anchor
yep
spiral nexus
Does lifting HL2 textures for a DUSK mod count as Fair Use because HL2 textures are so overused it's almost comedic to use them in anything at this point?
sharp trail
can someone send me a zipped version of their SDK folder. For some reason i can't get any quake 1 maps running
long anchor
now i'm pleased with results
@ancient depot also as you can see the forklift's still feels bad on 0 0 0
crude cedar
nice lookin
long anchor
@sharp trail why tho? what kind of error appears?
thanks
@spiral nexus you can make meme mod using hl2 textures
spiral nexus
like bruh, cursed tile texture https://i.imgur.com/ovUsNmK.png
thorn nova
why is it so cursed?
crude cedar
I've already stored it in my secret vault
sharp trail
i did everything that i was supposed to do acording to the pinned messages
spiral nexus
@thorn nova if you played anything that runs Source you have seen that tile texture millions of times
thorn nova
Right
fringe nymph
how your maps arent running
fluid nimbus
if you did everything as the pin says then try to repair the game
hollow laurel
also, they're from various texture "banks", so in other games (was some controversy with stalker because they got some texture from the same place)
long anchor
@sharp trail maps aren't running, or there are no textures, or...?
fringe nymph
it should be fine as long its supported bsp format
balmy thorn
Gasp! Just playtested my map and it looks like the recent patch fixed object rotations 😛
sharp trail
i can't choose the maps in the dusk sdk
balmy thorn
What do you mean?
pearl fox
Floating Wendigo is floating. Happens on the moving platform in Quake E2M2
balmy thorn
@sharp trail Under "Custom levels" ?
fringe nymph
either you have mod folders unchecked or maps are in wrong directory
balmy thorn
Did you compile the bsp in the right folder?
fringe nymph
or you just launched vanilla.
balmy thorn
^
fringe nymph
check modding tab in main menu
iron needle
@long anchor random idea: you could make the button texture one of the Dusk button textures
fringe nymph
and check the files directory
iron needle
Those should be exposed in the textures folder like all the other ones
sharp trail
@balmy thorn yes
iron needle
Also I'll echo what someone else said, don't be afraid of using placed light sources to light up things you want to stand out. It doesn't look as unnatural to the player as you might think, especially of you keep it subtle
sturdy tide
aka, paste candles everywhere
crude cedar
use gold coins to light stuff
sharp trail
i did it all. I compiled it into a bsp (it works with quakespasm) i checked the mod folder in the sdk version i added the pallete.lmp
modest imp
Any gameplay-oriented light, like one meant to direct the player's eyes towards something in particular, can look perfectly natural if given context in the game world.
pearl fox
I can confirm the weird alert behaviour that was reported btw. Both enemies are aggro'd on Quake E1M2 post-patch
balmy thorn
Hard to tell without knowing anything about your setup @sharp trail
Can you describe the compiler you use, the settings, folder structure etc
fringe nymph
map should run even without palette.lmp
balmy thorn
Did you activate your mod in the main menu?
iron needle
@pearl fox yup it has to do with the rotation fixes
Hopefully we can fix the fixes lol
fringe nymph
isnt like enemy fire waking up unalerted monsters?
iron needle
I don't think so
iron needle
Indeed
gritty forge
this is so sad can we get 100 soaps?
hollow laurel
It is the 41st millenium, sat immobile on the golden desk chair, David, the god dev of DUSK, releases updates for the SDK
crude cedar
I never really noticed before, but the way that the hunting rifle sends enemies' corpses flying is satisfying as hell
gritty forge
Oow
iron needle
Thank you for bearing with us with the updates guys. I know it's probably frustrating to have them affecting your maps but as you can probably imagine it's difficult to fix bugs without that happening.
fluid nimbus
what was the last update anyway?
still raptor
Well it's an alpha for a reason
fringe nymph
thats weird after update one enemy is instantly aware of player (and by shooting at the player it alerts the other enemies)
still raptor
Tbh though I think it's more fun this way
hollow laurel
inb4 new worldspawn flag
iron needle
@fluid nimbus check patch notes on steam SDK forum. An assortment of stuff
fluid nimbus
kk thanks
long anchor
@iron needle yeap i added lights
@crude cedar
use gold coins to light stuff
i already lit up too much stuff on the level with coins lol
crude cedar
darn
sharp trail
@balmy thorn i've already posted some screenshots of my setup yesterday just search for my messages in the searchbar and you'll find them
modest imp
It is a kind of pre-release of the SDK, so it's kind of expected that older things may break as it gets more updates and features.
Don't think anyone's too broken up over it. 😁
The way I see it, us folks are just pushing buttons until it breaks, and having some fun while doing it.
still raptor
Definitely will be doable
long anchor
neat
fringe nymph
schüt the crack in the wall, the whole thing blows up
balmy thorn
@long anchor
"The answer to any "is X entity going to be added?" question is usually "yes" if it's from Quake or GoldSrc" - Darth Zombie
😉
long anchor
iirc there's no "trigger_explosion" or something like this
balmy thorn
There is in HL
long anchor
really?
balmy thorn
Yeah.
balmy thorn
Hehe. I mapped for HL1 for several years back in the day, so I'm 100% sure.
balmy thorn
I can't confirm if it'll be added to Dusk though, obviously
balmy thorn
but I would think so, especially considering how active Zombie is with the community
long anchor
they're supposed to be in different order
balmy thorn
Did you trigger it?
long anchor
nah
the part of the building is func_breakable
so i shot mortar to make explody effect
and then shot it with pistol to actually break
(since for some reason explosions don't affect func_breakable)
btw i'm having fun with func_breakable
all the windows on level are breakable
and it's awesome
balmy thorn
Yup, just how it was done in HL1 😉
long anchor
i wish there were half-life fgd for TB
i really don't want to get back to hammer or jack for hl mapping
modest imp
In JACK's defense, it's way more stable than Hammer is.
small gate
that's not a high bar at all
mortal narwhal
hammer btfo
pearl fox
By the way, I'm amazed by the speed you guys are adding new functions and ironing out bugs after the initial release, thanks for all of your hard work 
balmy thorn
I second that.
vivid blaze
thirded
hollow laurel
fourthed
long anchor
fifthed?
gritty forge
sixthed
civic sentinel
Ive tried adding the iqm plugin to blender but it wont work, it says ive got to upgrade to 2.8x which i dont know what that means
vivid blaze
what version of blender do you have now?
civic sentinel
2.81
pearl fox
Anyone else notice the akimbo shotgun sound not playing correctly in the sdk version? Seems to lose the more bass-heavy layers at random. Doesn't seem to be a thing in the current release branch.
pearl fox
Ah, so it does seem to be a thing. You're talking about vanilla sounds as well, right?
long anchor
yeah, there's an issues with sounds. devs are investigating.
spiral nexus
Do HL1's .mdl files work in the SDK as of right now?
or one can only use Quake models for now?
gritty forge
we don't have any custom models right now but I think they were gonna support .iqm
spiral nexus
oh right I forgot models aren't a thing at all currently, sorry
turbid glade
How do I make the textures loads in custom levels? lol
iron needle
fixed enemy rotation. Will hotfix tonight
solid isle
yoooo
vivid blaze
@turbid glade put the palette file in your mod's directory
turbid glade
Thx
mortal narwhal
NICE
unique ocean
Are teleporters not able to be used in a trigger yet?
iron needle
They are. Trigger teleporters only teleport the player atm, whereas teleporter objects will teleport anything as in the base game
ivory otter
Okay so I just finished Dusk a few moments ago. How do I start making mods? 
astral mural
Well, first thing's first, you need the SDK beta branch. Do you know how to access the beta branches on Steam?
ivory otter
Yeah, you use the key right?
astral mural
Yep! The pins should have most of the info you need
ivory otter
Cool! Thanks!
astral mural
Np!
mortal narwhal
Would anyone want to test my map?
balmy thorn
@mortal narwhal I would 😉
mortal narwhal
@balmy thorn Here you go, it's not actually dust 2 btw