You can make a really basic state machine with coroutines. It's basically how I handle my enemy AI. And they do reasonably complex stuff.
#general-modding
ebon summit
main chasm
So I began to learn Trenchbroom, and after using Doom Builder 2 for 3 months I wasn't really prepared for the transition lmao
But, I have began to create a test map, so that at least something
robust ridge
Nice. Is the game coming to steam or something?
I'm quite looking forward to this since i've tasted that blender demo from years ago.
Also, Doosk: fast firetotems can now be stacked and zscript version of the blistering heat improved.
A Doosk update with multiplayer compatibility should come anytime on july.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/276046939626143746/733125295145615450/2020-07-15-2146-33.mp4
viscid sandal
@robust ridge we've been porting the game to unity and overhauling/improving a ton of stuff, we'll be releasimg a new demo soon.
unique trellis
Soon ™️
viscid sandal
Its actually kind of paunful to play that blender demo now
muted stirrup
This is probs more game dev than modding but im always up for feedback, just an FPS game im working on, if any1 be up for trying it that be nice
https://ks98.itch.io/the-long-road-back
hazy sorrel
games are welcome here
(i suppose)
muted stirrup
Thats good then, was the only chat that made sense posting it in, noticed a couple of people shared some RPG games so i figured it wouldnt hurt
neat cliff
@viscid sandal that cinematic inspired by thief cutscenes or its just me 😄
viscid sandal
Actually it was inspired by the opening to immortal redneck
Id never seen theifs cutscenes until civs vid
viscid sandal
Theif is kind of one of those "yeah I might play it someday" kind of games for me. Got a large backlog of stuff and its not really the highest on my list.
robust ridge
Dooskworld update is now available!
While you wait for few hours for moddb to authorize the files, here are some instructive information about new things this update brings, plus a glimpse of some upcoming features planned for the mod's future =P
wraith beacon
After a long time I finally fixed the UVs in this level.
tame ember
whats that a level in?
wraith beacon
A game I'm making called Type to Reload.
tame ember
oh no
unique trellis
What if we kissed in type to reload😳 😳 😳 jkjk unless
eternal sandal
Would be cool to have a game dev channel but here seems appropriate to ask, when picking an engine for a first-time project, what kind of things should I consider? I know Unity and Unreal are popular but I'm trying to look past that, more like things that a noob would want to avoid
unique trellis
well what you trying to make
eternal sandal
3d, first person, I'm still outlining things but that's the big idea
I'm awful at art so I will probably go with a lower-res style
Plus I like the look
unique trellis
And you don't have any experience with coding?
eternal sandal
Got a degree in C.S, few years professional in C++
unique trellis
ah then you should prolly go with Unreal, it has a default fps controller and you can write in C++
eternal sandal
Okay, I'll start there. Thanks for the insight :)
muted stirrup
UE4 for certain imo
especially since you are already familiar with c++, UE4 also has visual scripting with blueprints, they are less optimised than code, but great for prototyping/or those who arent too familar with programming
coarse token
ew blueprints
muted stirrup
they get the job done lol
coarse token
still ew for me
muted stirrup
how much less does depend on how badly its scripted tbf, say using the event tick inside the level 
wraith beacon
If it's good enough for Epic it's good enough for me 
wraith beacon
It's successor is still happening.
unique trellis
hell yeah
eternal sandal
If I want to start working on lower-poly models/meshes is Wings3D a good place to start?
I saw someone reference it in #dusk-modding and I don't think I'd need something like Blender/Maya for what I want to work with
coarse token
I wish I had the drive to learn modelling
if it's low poly then probably anything works I'd imagine.
eternal sandal
I'm prob gonna be terrible at it since I've never done it before, but the whole project's a learning experience
muted stirrup
Havent heard of Wings3D, I'm most familiar with 3Ds max, but Maya and blender seem decent enough, and blender is 100% free last time i checked (havent used it yet myself though)
Modeling is one of those things you just get better the more you use/practice with it, say using vertices points to make basic shapes is a good start, only thing that im not really comfortable with is 3D animation, be it in say UE4, Maya or max
eternal sandal
Yeah, I'm probably diving in too deep without the basics down, gotta back it up
humble herald
blender is very good for building and sculpting models out of simple shapes and then refining
massive learning curve but that's a given for pretty much any 3d program
keen bear
wings3d is based
also hatsu is right, i wouldnt use ue4 just because you know c++
the entire engine is designed around the use of blueprints
even the AAA, high budget, top of class ue4 games use blueprint
if you use it, id try to consider c++ as ancillary to that system
wraith beacon
Yeah Blueprint and C++ are kinda designed to be used in tandem.
And even if you avoid Blueprint you'll still have to work with all of the other node based things.
Like the material editor, or anim blueprint, or niagra, or the sound system.
keen bear
as an example, we've shipped 2 ue4 games, that together use probably less than 5% custom C++
wraith beacon
I've never used UE4 C++. I should probably learn it though.
keen bear
im not convinced its necessary, helpful yes. but required no
obviously it all depends on your application
but for something like a first person shooter, ue is at its core designed to make fps games
and excels at that
wraith beacon
Yeah UE4 is mostly made for games that involve the player controlling one character at a time.
You can make other things of course but a lot of it's systems and abstractions are built around a pawn, controller, gamemode system.
tranquil oracle
Yeah UE4 C++ is nightmarish, if you want to write code, absolutely go with Unity
severe patrol
its comforting to know that everyone can agree on how bad the unreal c++ is
neat cliff
What are your problems with ue4 c++? Overall feels pretty normal coding to me, just memory management cut out :P.
tranquil oracle
It's like working with bad 90s C++ code
The API is garbage and often lacking, it's littered with boilerplate and macros, and the engine code is an eldritch being
also cutting memory management out in this case isn't a good thing imo
I think often with UE4 C++ users are in the situation of "if you haven't experienced good, bad doesn't seem so bad"
neat cliff
yeah i just kind of am used to it and writing my own code for everything, documentation rly sucked so bad I've just started to learn how to write whatever I need and related myself hahah. I usually feel that my own code is a bigger problem than any unreal API haha
doesnt feel that much different anymore than writing normal software in java or whatever xD
i sometimes look how features are programmed in unity and normal c++ projects and just try to write my own the same way and idk doesnt really feel that much different
but its definitely much slower than in blueprints xD
productivity wise
misty sparrow
Divine Frequency enemy variety lookin lit
coarse token
Is that a mod for blood or doom? Seems weird to only have 1 ripped enemy from doom, wait 2
misty sparrow
unique trellis
inland patrol
lawful good
prisma basalt
near mortar
Lawful Neutral
muted stirrup
True Neutral
unique trellis
Lawful Good
wraith beacon
True Neutral
coarse token
I can't quite tell what some of them are, or how they're different
what's different between chaotic good and chaotic neutral
wraith beacon
Chaotic good is like a slope between each step while Chaotic Neutral seems to be like a slope that leads into a step?
robust ridge
Considering I map with gzdoom builder, i'm all neutrals.
Stairs for style, ramps for laziness and lifts for "fuck stairs and ramps" moments.
slender knoll
there are actual videos about de_dust 2 "spiral staircase" and how it has evolved
if you just did everything like true neutral movement over stairs wouldnt feel that natural with sharp upwards movement every time you step on the next step
slender knoll
yea I seen that
indigo olive
Not had much free time recently but ayyyy camera space vertex swimming
Just enough to be nostalgic and not so much it's annoying 😂
will probably get tweaked whenever I actually get some art done.
Currently set to a 1cm precision but can bump it down per object or globally :3
wraith beacon
Oooo.
keen bear
nice
spare raven
So I noticed that something similar has been asked before, but I'm gonna try again. I want to make an FPS with simple graphics. I have tried both UE4 and Unity, and I think I have a preference for Unity so far. I prefer C# to C++, and don't care for blueprints. I get the impression that UE4 is more feature-rich, but at the same time you have to do things the "UE" way, or not at all. I might be wrong, though. At the same time I keep reading things about Unity being in a bad place right now. A lot of deprecated APIs, new features announced as others are left incomplete, and general instability. I guess what I'm asking is ... For someone with programming experience that wants to get into making 3D games, where do I start? Should I just suck it up and learn C++ in Unreal, or go with my gut and use Unity? Any insight or opinions would be appreciated.
tranquil oracle
Unity for sure
From what you've stated I don't imagine you'd benefit much from switching to UE4
I'd also argue that in many places Unity is far more feature rich than UE
spare raven
Huh, that's interesting
tranquil oracle
Its API, while not without its own issues, is far more versatile and developed than UE's
spare raven
Thanks for the input! You basically told me what I wanted to hear, which can be a little ... dangerous? 😄 No, I'm thankful, but I guess I just want some arguments from the other side, as well
tranquil oracle
np lmao
spare scarab
on topic of high skill coding and unity
i cant make a spoon AI
well i kinda can but after the player moves for some time it just drives off into the distance so like can somone help a complete newbie in coding
i can paste the ai in a moment
tranquil oracle
I'm about to be afk for a bit but once I'm back I'll take a look
spare raven
What does spoon AI mean?
spare scarab
i made a spoon and gave it ai
spare scarab
cant even call this code but i barely have any idea what im doing
`public class chase : MonoBehaviour
{
private UnityEngine.AI.NavMeshAgent myAgent;
public Transform target;
void Update()
{
myAgent = GetComponent<UnityEngine.AI.NavMeshAgent>();
myAgent.SetDestination(target.position);
}`
problem is - the object with this script works fine for a while but then just starts moving off into the distance
spare raven
Does it reach the destination before going off into the distance?
Or does it overshoot the destination, maybe?
spare scarab
the destination is the player
so it may just chase for a bit and then start going off without reaching the destinaton
unique trellis
it's a spoon, what were you expecting
spare scarab
true
spare raven
Do you need to keep updating the destination for the NavMeshAgent?
Now you just set it once in Start(), but maybe you need to keep adjusting it in ... Update()? I don't know Unity, so I'm probably not very useful here
spare scarab
hmmm that is a good point
i'll try that thank you
oh wait it was in update in the first place i was just screwing around trying to get it to work
start didnt work
spare scarab
yep
spare raven
Well, could it move outside of the NavMesh?
The spoon, I mean
It needs to be on top of a navmesh to be able to navigate, right?
spare scarab
i dont think it can
there are zones where no navmesh in present but it's just a small circle around trees to make it not get stuck
spare raven
Ah, I see
Have you tried logging the value of target.position?
Just to see what values you get back when the spoon "moves off into the distance"
spare scarab
soooo im bad at code, that would be
Debug.Log(target.position); ?
spare raven
If Debug.Log is how you log things in Unity, that looks right to me 😛
spare raven
They just change as the player moves around?
muted stirrup
as an example, we've shipped 2 ue4 games, that together use probably less than 5% custom C++
@keen bear out of curiosity, which games where they?
keen bear
amid evil, and unfortunate spacemen
unique trellis
unfortunate space boi
spare scarab
yep
hmmm but i think i might have somewhat figured it out because the player and the spoon have different heights
so maybe it freaks out when it's trying to move lower but cant
muted stirrup
woah, thats pretty neat ngl
keen bear
unfortunate spacemen contains a VAST majority of the custom c++ between the two, but its not much, and really only there to fix bugs with ue4
and some dedicated server stuff
amid evil is very nearly 100% blueprint
spare raven
What would your recommendation be, @keen bear? Unity or Unreal for someone just starting out, wanting to make an FPS with low quality graphics?
keen bear
if youre not keen on blueprint, absolutely unity
and even if you are, personally i still personally prefer unity
not that ue4 is bad by any stretch of the imagination
but for my personal workflow, i like the structure of unity
you will spend more time building tools and code in general with unity, but that also means you have more say in its design
muted stirrup
thats pretty intesesting in regards to amid evil, im only good with blueprints, as a result i sometimes wonder if i will need c++ for an upcoming fps game im doing, as performance on various machines concerns me a little
keen bear
honestly, blueprint is very nearly as performant as C++ if its structured well
spare raven
I really appreciate the input 🙂
keen bear
and yes, some of that heresay is true
there ARE features in unity that are deprecated or unfinished
i wont deny that
especially if multiplayer is your thing
theyre between states
but beyond that, MOST of whats there is pretty well developed
spare raven
Yeah, as far as I understand there is no official solution for MP in Unity? I thought that was important, but I have decided my first game will not have multiplayer ...
keen bear
the thing is, if you DO decide to do multiplayer, theres a good array of third party solutions that work well
spare raven
I made a small browser based multiplayer game, and that was painful enough
keen bear
photon, mirror, mlapi, etc
spare raven
I have barely looked at them, but will keep them in mind for the future. 🙂
muted stirrup
Ironically, when i was first taught ue4 in college, couldnt get a door working for like 6 weeks, compared to 4 years later, i kinda look back on it fondly, think its one of those that just can take time
spare raven
Dusk is made in Unity, right? What about Maximum Action and Gloomwood?
keen bear
yep, all 3 are unity
ultrakill as well
gloomwood is far and away the most well structured project we've started
spare scarab
might be an odd question but what engine is Super Galaxy Squadron made on
keen bear
thats actually game maker studio 1, but the coming update will put it on game maker studio 2
spare scarab
oh hey cool
keen bear
we arent afraid to try different engines
spare scarab
but what about clickteam fusion 2
spare raven
Any tips on structuring a Unity project? Or resources to learn about stuff like that. Maybe not engine specific
muted stirrup
Honestly I want to get familair with Unity, but i dont want to derail my motivation with my ue4 project
keen bear
yeah i mean, if youve started something, keep going
dont end up like DNF and switch engines 8 times
spare raven
I have decided to go for Unity for my first project now. Thanks, confirmation bias.
spare scarab
coming from a complete newbie in everything - i got pretty used to unity in a couple weeks even if anything i do is barebones compared to UE4 when i didnt even understand anything with tutorials
keen bear
as for structuring a unity project
spare raven
Also thanks, @keen bear and @tranquil oracle 🙂
keen bear
theres a lot to be said on that topic, organization is a good place to start
spare raven
So, we're talking one giant file, 700 methods, 9000 if tests, right?
hard valley
https://github.com/IFlippie/Jumping-Jack
idk if it'll be of any help to any of you but here's a game in Unity that I made 6 months ago
keen bear
also, time to shill some of zombies code
this can help organization in a unity project!
currently in use in gloomwood
hard valley
can't you just use empty gameobjects for that aswell
spare scarab
that is kinda really cool actually
i cant finally look at some organization code and maybe learn a thing or two
spare raven
Ah, yes. Scene Hierarchy Folders. I know some of those words.
But of course, it's so simple, so elegant! Why didn't I think of that?
Jokes aside, I will keep this in mind, and try to understand what it actually does
I get the impression that it is common to extend Unity with different editor features. Are there any common or useful ones I should know of?
keen bear
so
having a deep hierarchy has a performance impact
these folders get removed automatically
and have other properties that gameobjects dont normally have
spare raven
Ah, I see!
tranquil oracle
@spare scarab Your code looks correct, so it must be some weird setting on the nav mesh agent related to distance or something
unique trellis
spare scarab
thanks for the check zomb
unique trellis
How do you get textures on your weapon models for maximum action?
indigo olive
@analog pollen do you have an estimate of how many people play ultrakill with PSX mode on?
analog pollen
no idea
near mortar
0 players 
hazy sorrel
no one likes ps1
white sage
you mean
psx
hazy sorrel
PSX didnt had the constant geometry warping tho
hazy sorrel
wraith beacon
Modern hardware can have vertex jittering too if you have enough floating point errors 😎
slender knoll
lol what was that one lovecraft story where a witch could enter different worlds/dimensions through some crazy geometry
reminded me of it
solar inlet
UltraDusk
crystal kraken
texture swimming and vertex dancing are both really unfortunate drawbacks of the psx
indigo olive
I dont plan on adding texture swimming
I just think that the slight jitter makes things a little surreal
indigo olive
I just found this in the wrath source code... if I not wrong.... what it does here is every single time you land, it opens up a text file and checks if the texture name is in that file, if not it opens another text file and does the same... for like 8 files....
tranquil oracle
Yeah that's... pretty bad
Dunno why they'd expose stuff like fopen to QuakeC either, assuming that is just a straight call to it and not a custom function with the same name
coarse token
to be fair do you really need a huge amount of efficiency for games like dusk, wrath, etc on modern hardware
white sage
Why not expose fopen ?
coarse token
for example, just goes to show how much you can get away with with old games
/ "retro" games
white sage
system calls might be necessary too
wraith beacon
Eh if you take nasty shortcuts a bunch it eventually adds up.
indigo olive
Personally I would expose fopen but for this use case I'd write an engine function that loads these files at load time and quakec can just query them
tranquil oracle
I wouldn't expose fopen directly but rather a similar API that uses a virtual filesystem under the hood
Basically just tie it into the VFS that quake already has
indigo olive
I dont think Wrath makes use of the VFS for quake tbh
the assets are just kinda floating about
indigo olive
It's not using a pak or whatever
tranquil oracle
pak is just something that can be mounted to the vfs
but real folders can be too
pak's like
a blob folder
tranquil oracle
scientific term I swear
indigo olive
I was doing my monthly "do I bother learning quake engine" thing
indigo olive
see I look at this
tranquil oracle
which is a relief lol
tranquil oracle
lmao
The Quake source is actually really nice to go through
Might be a bit esoteric if you don't have much C experience though
indigo olive
Yeah my issue is documentation
VM_SAFEPARMCOUNT macro
tf is it
google wont tell me
I can inferr
tranquil oracle
That might be a Darkplaces thing
tranquil oracle
Yeah that macro doesn't appear in stock Quake's source
indigo olive
I'd probably use fteqw if I was gonna
which seems mode ducumented than the rest
but still
tranquil oracle
yeah
indigo olive
hats off
crystal kraken
dude just decided to octopus rebase every single quake engine fork with dusk
indigo olive
teh madman
unique trellis
me running Arcane Dimensions in Dawn
Yeee haw
crystal kraken
me playing arcane dimensions with hl assets 😎
unique trellis
Hello Johnny
crystal kraken
waddup
unique trellis
I'm watching system shock videos lmao
stone fossil
Does anyone know if theres like, a table of contents for textures?
Ive got the entire bitch unpacked and sitting in front of me, but guessing and manually reassigning textures to materials in unity will kill me before I even get Creations done
each mesh, when exported, links back to a numerical texture, and quite a few of them are the same (the ones with the same material), but the textures are not labelled with these numbers
im gonna shit like 8 bricks
crystal kraken
how did you rip the models
and what "numerical texture", sequential from 0 to whatever?
unique trellis
You can grab the meshs Material mainTexture?
else you have to look into the shaders properties
tranquil oracle
Sounds like an issue with whatever export tool you used
brittle yew
Still updating my System Shock 2 rebalance mod, now with revised upgrade costs to incentivize character specialization
https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=11194.msg133765#msg133765
viscid sandal
stone fossil
I have found a better export tool!
UTinnyripper can export ENTIRE SCENES
The only issue is that the scripts are out of date, but that objectively doesnt matter for what im trying to do
and + its simple namespace errors, could probably be fixed EZ
tranquil oracle
uTinyRipper is great yeah
robust ridge
In which format are the maps extracted? Just curious about it.
keen bear
well it extracts a scene file
stone fossil
Yeah, it just straight extracts everything
from here I have to delete everything that isnt the models , then bake the models and lighting
then export to VRchat
vast thorn
was told this is the better place to post it
at what point do i get to ask dave & dave to give me $100,000 and make a game out of this
unique trellis
When you send him the demo
misty sparrow
https://imgur.com/HhAqm4t gonna have chasm in doom soon!
viscid sandal
THE TIME HAS COME BOIS!!! https://twitter.com/Awesreek/status/1287084751501877248
hazy sorrel
muted stirrup
keen bear
You cant really, unity cameras break at 180 fov
hazy sorrel
like rendering issue or what
muted stirrup
Havent tried it with UE4, though it would probs also break when setting 180
viscid sandal
@hazy sorrel oh no
muted stirrup
besides everyone knows 360 fov is the best 
crystal kraken
panini projection ftw
crystal kraken
fuck panini, me and the boys only do mercator
nimble socket
i think treating the players eyes as a camera is an awkward necessity/compromise
viscid sandal
That fov text thing will have to be fixed.
crystal kraken
I wonder, aside from the weird ass experiments like blinky did anyone actually try making a game with the weird ass projections?
keen bear
probs not
players freak out when they get a vertical fov instead of a horizontal fov
could you imagine if they were presented with that
crystal kraken
many keyboards would get broken by projectile vomiting methinks
jfc can you imagine playing descent with that
wraith beacon
90-100 FOV is good enough for me a lot of the time
unique trellis
90 FOV is vomit inducing for m
wraith beacon
Good compromise between peripheral vision and distortion.
unique trellis
I do not miss those times
110 forever
90 was fine until I realized there were games that allowed for more
In the same way I was fine with EDuke until I played games that had proper mouse view interpolation
viscid sandal
I hate when games limit your minimum fov to something stupid like 90-110 So I said screw it ALL THE FOV'S
coarse token
I can handle 70 but prefer 110 in every game, anything higher and it becomes hard for me to track targets in games like quake live
wraith beacon
120 is kinda the upper limit of FOVs for me.
spare scarab
a big deal with fov preferences is your monitor size
and how far away do you sir from it
wraith beacon
120 is where the distortion really starts to kick in.
spare scarab
sit*
like for me having a shitty laptop screen and sitting at a decent distance makes it pretty much a given to use 80-100 fov
however using a friend's ultra-widescreen setup for a bit made me switch to 120 real quick
robust ridge
Pretty much the above.
In my home i can deal with 90/110
But in a friend house and his big tv, i go like 110/125.
harsh crest
it'd be fun to see what the community creates for ultrakill, assuming there is gonna be any kind of mod support
pure jackal
MMMMASTER F O V
muted stirrup
Personally, I just stick with 90 usually for the most part
coarse token
great now I feel like I have to make a tech demo for a game with 360 fov
unique trellis
shy hatch
God that makes my brain hurt
pure jackal
Not enough FOV
solar inlet
W I D E Q U A K E
coarse token
So I've never used VR or even watched it really, but humans have like 200 FOV between their two eyes...
The visual errors obviously are caused by being projected onto a 2d plane- Does VR fix that somehow? Or does VR also limit FOV?
rotund garden
UNNNNNLIMITED FOVVVVVVVVVV
stone fossil
I wonder if you could play with a very large fake FOV in VR
I wanna be able to literally see behind myself
coarse token
don't people already complain about nausea when using vr
viscid sandal
ebon summit
Viscerafest demo is awesome btw. Loved it. Levels are very short though, that would be my only concern moving forward.
Is it possible to upload videos on here directly or do I have to go to youtube and all that jazz
analog pollen
you'll have to upload somewhere else and link it if you dont have the rat role yet
viscid sandal
@ebon summit levels immediately start getting longer after the demo's end.
Also thank ya
sharp vortex
Not a huge achievement, but I managed to get Realtime CSG working and some basic wandering AI that actively avoid obstacles
tame ember
csg?
sharp vortex
Constructive Solid Geometry
The actual plugin I'm using is Realtime CSG though
it's a level building tool
sharp vortex
Better than Unity's ProTools for sure
tame ember
im assuming thats unity because of the lack of lense flares
sharp vortex
though a bit buggy in my experience so far
tame ember
rip
can i ask what the overall plan is?
i assume therse more to it than throw away trash
sharp vortex
lmao yeah
I've got two ideas, but they'll likely both use similar stuff and scripts
Which one I go for first depends largely on what is closer to being done by the time I get a lot of the events and mechanics done
My next course of action is modeling and animating a creature which will take the place of these walking cylinders
tame ember
oh exciting
ive been sitting on an idea for something i want to draw when i learn how to
i could make a shitty horror game based around it
the models are good, gameplay poopy
sharp vortex
The "pick up trash" thing was me getting an item pickup system to work
tame ember
are you going to do something along the lines of monstrum?
spoopy stuff you gotta avoid that has more than 2 braincells
sharp vortex
They're both gonna be horror related at least, yeah
tame ember
you ever play power drill massacre?
sharp vortex
I've seen a lot of videos on it
tame ember
i was gonna say, if you wanna do pants shittingly terrifying, s o u n d
tame ember
oh exciting
sharp vortex
and I want to make my own music for it
That's still all just hopes and dreams though
who knows if I even get that far lmao
my biggest blocker is procrastination
tame ember
lmao
same
ive been wanting to do something along the lines of erm
slayer's repentless album cover
wont post it here cause it's a slayer album cover :/
coarse token
isn't repentless just a picture of jesus' head? I don't honestly remember if that was all or if they added like a bunch of blood or not
tame ember
it's that but gore
man when i explain it like that it sounds really shitty and gross
i really like the idea of body horror, something like that one enemy in dusk that i hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate
or just the entirety of silent hill 2
coarse token
I think I've talked about this before with others, but like, it's really hard to make games actually genuinely scary- even harder in movies I guess, but like, the player can always turn off the game or pause it and so on.
How do you plan to make it actually terrifying?
tame ember
well
power drill massacre does it in a way i like
aka being hard to control and just so fucking
agh
theres nothing like hearing some stippy steps and just
i cant even explain how much i dont like power drill massacre but love it at the same time
but it wears off pretty fast
eventually it loses its spook factor, but that happens with everything
coarse token
tbh I think the only real way to make a game scary is to immerse the player enough to the point they feel like they're in the shoes of the protagonist/"victim."
When you can accomplish that, you can make the player feel like they're actually facing down a monster yknow
tame ember
yeah
thats what PDM does almost
you forget that you're playing a shitty looking ps1 era garbage fire
oh oh oh oh oh oh oh
coarse token
Only game that ever has been able to do that to me is outlast 1 non-dlc, I think to-date it's the only game that I've ever been scared to continue playing
tame ember
amnesia does it really well IMO as well
i fucking hated how it went
"hold shift to run"
and i was fucking terrified for the next 15 minutes that i was about to die
coarse token
I like outlast as horror because it can show you the monster and still make you afraid, without relying on jump scares or anything. The number one rule is to obscure the terrifying thing, but outlast manages to do it regardless of that, probably because of the big guy that follows you everywhere
coarse token
And I guess the fact that it's super hard to do that is why I've never been scared of videogames/movies other than outlast
tame ember
i like the way PDM does it because it's not the "hehe hoohoo jumpscare scare you and now it's gone"
no it just keeps going and going and going
it instantly kickstarts an equally intense run for your life
you ever play system shock?
coarse token
My dad did and I watched a bit
tame ember
nice
coarse token
I was terrified of it cuz I was like 6 at the time
tame ember
lmao
sharp vortex
Something else that good horror games should strive to do is make the player character a vessel, but give that vessel enough character that you can kind of get a feel for the world it lives in
tame ember
system shock do that real well
coarse token
it's not even a scary game though is it? I thought it was like action or something
tame ember
i fucking hate that game
but in a good way
nah it's survival horror
very tech based
sharp vortex
SS2 is spooky at least
tame ember
very body horror
dying is very icky and i dont like it
shodan wants to kill everyone and creates these grotesque abominations that just kinda roam around and try to kill you
and it's so intensely oppressive
all these notes of people trying to hold off the mutant hordes and robots
sharp vortex
SS1 is just kind of DOOM in space with some unsettling imagery told through voice logs
coarse token
Now all I can think of is being like 14 and my dad not letting me watch him play shadow of chernobyl because my mom had seen the m rating on the disc
sharp vortex
I disagree, but w/e
tame ember
damnit i need to play system shock again
im talking about the first one btw
never played the second
sharp vortex
Me too.
tame ember
oh alright
coarse token
I need to get back to work on my not-horror game
tame ember
pfft
coarse token
but I won't cuz I'm gonna play vermintide instead
coarse token
you can't go wrong with seasons in the abyss can you?
coarse token
slayer is an anime confirmed
weak root
I have finished a map. It is thicc and girthy
https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/116003-bastion-of-chaos-public-beta-by-bridgeburner/
hazy sorrel
what the hell
weak root
yes this is hell 😈
hazy sorrel
i want to open this in gzdb
muted stirrup
lot of detail on there for sure
coarse token
looks like one of the hub areas on zdaemon deathmatch servers
humble herald
you ever want to start doom mapping
and then you see shit like this
goddamn those are quality maps
now the question is how do they run
hazy sorrel
yes, it always turns me down
humble herald
I want to work on mapping at some point but honestly
I'm so all over the place with this stuff I dunno if I could ever make something let alone release it
not to mention the sheer quality people keep putting out
like that is insane
hazy sorrel
you download them, you edit them, you make them
main chasm
Seems legit
tame ember
i mean
doom maps like that take months to make do they not
because of how obtuse map editing is
solar inlet
@weak root send this to Decino 😮
white sage
I want to hear his voice say "the new blood discord told me about..."
solar inlet
hes got his viewer request 2 coming up
coarse token
if only he'd make more analysis videos
not even doom tbh Decino has some really interesting findings about games and I'm most curious about them
sharp vortex
Kind of simple to do, but I think this is still very neat.
Got some random "mumble" dialogue going and letter pop-in for environment context stuff
weak root
send this to Decino 😮
@solar inlet i may have let him know about it
solar inlet
From what i have seen id be suprised if he doesnt play it so aslong as you get it to him in time
weak root
yeah i'm definitely gonna try get it in for the september submissions
viscid sandal
coral robin
I fucking love Russian Overkill
muted stirrup
@sharp vortex what engine is that?
muted stirrup
Ive been wanting to put this on gamejolt but im not sure what the policies are on 'demos'
muted stirrup
Ive already got it on itch.io, but ive read different things regarding uploading demos on gamejolt if they are on different sites or something, could be wrong, can't seem to find a solid answer
muted stirrup
ahhh, may as well do it then, think as long as put the full version on both itch and gamejolt when done should be fine
muted stirrup
https://gamejolt.com/games/thelongroadback/521814 done, may as well drop the link here
lofty dove
Counter-Strike mappers here?
viscid sandal
@muted stirrup yeah, I'd priorly been using gamejolt as the site for the old super outdated shareware demo, so I don't think you should have any trouble.
muted stirrup
thats good then 👍
viscid sandal
Kinda doubt they'd change their policy on that since then.
muted stirrup
Yeah, I think the post that i read about that was like 4 years ago on the forums, and ive only really known both itch and game jolt within the last year, so had no idea how much said platforms have changed over time
sharp vortex
Very late to the party, but it's Unity @muted stirrup
muted stirrup
i figured lol, better late then never tho 🤣
anyway, looks like its coming along nicely
sharp vortex
well thank you
I'm really liking how your game looks as well.
Got a nice gritty and stanky look to it
muted stirrup
aye, been working on it since back end of June, probs gonna take a year to complete the full thing, one the plus side side, its not to complex mechanically, which i think will help ease workflow in long run
coarse token
I'm working on something very complex mechanically but the opposite for everything else
muted stirrup
I feel thats the trade off if alone when creating games, i mean you "technically" could do both, but the time required and financial aspect would make it very risky
coarse token
oh no I can't do both
my games would all look like trash
I'm creating a rocket jump focused game with an emphasis on arena shooter-type stuff, it's gonna look like quake 1 lol
except only in polygon count, the textures are gonna look like ET for the atari or some shit
I am working with others on a different game though, in which we have a visual guy and then me doing the actual programming part
muted stirrup
nice, tbf, idk what engine youre using for the quake jump one, could always just slap some post process to help the more simple textures blend in (idk if this is just a Ue4 thing tho)
coarse token
I wouldn't know if it wasn't exclusive
using unity for it
I learned unity like a year ago
so I'm trying to release something on it at least
muted stirrup
fair enough, makes sense to use what youre most recently familiar with
spare scarab
wingman map? sign me up
swift glade
lofty dove
I need a map fixed.
unique trellis
what do you mean fixed?
lofty dove
There's two errors in it.
wraith beacon
In what game.
hazy sorrel
Just delete the whole thing and there will be no errors
unique trellis
Tech support be like:
"I have a problem"
"What is the problem?"
"I get an error message"
"What does the message says?"
"It showed up all of a sudden and I do not know what to do"
lofty dove
A graphical error.
unique trellis
That is still extremely vague
How about a screenshot of the issue and a detailed description
Then maybe somebody will be able to help
lofty dove
coarse token
So I think I might have made a mistake when I was making my first unity game; I used a character controller. I won't go into what issues specifically I have with it but there is a problem I'd like to now avoid with the benefit of heindsight.
While I don't want to use rigidbodies, I also don't want to use character controllers if I can make a better alternative, but I'm concerned about the efficiency of doing so.
How does a Unity character controller actually detect collisions? You can't get a cylinder collider for one which is what I need.
I'm thinking of making my own rudimentary physics for a cylinder collider that just applies newton's third law but before I go and make a bunch of test cases or something for performance I'm hoping to see if anyone has alternatives that provide a cylinder collider for characters or if anyone knows if its performance impact is large enough to care about
Actually I've just discovered a huge issue with every last bit of this and I think I'm out of luck- The cylinder gameObject also has a capsule collider but visually is different. Well nevermind I guess.
crystal kraken
Don't think anyone actually likes unity's character controller very much
coarse token
My only real issue with it that there doesn't seem to be a workaround for is literally just the shape being problematic
The spherical head creates some very odd instances where you can get stuck beneath ramps
I know in the back of my mind that 99.999% of instances it's an avoidable issue but it just angers me that it isn't perfect
crystal kraken
I've had everything go wrong, from nonsense impulses, issues with 0-volume geometry, the thing getting flung around out of the blue for no reason, etc
coarse token
Maybe I haven't experienced those issues since I use Unity almost exclusively for testing simple stuff and only occasionally try to develop actual games.
I'm trying to find my screenshot of DUSK that explains my problem with capsule colliders but I can't right now
crystal kraken
I was modding dusk - so I had a fair share of scenarios I couldn't have predicted
if I was to complete that mod I'd just roll custom collision code
maybe an unity port of the quake's collision code
coarse token
maybe that doesn't work idk but the issue is that since the capsule has a spherical top and bottom, placing it in between a ceiling/ slope or floor / slope ceiling causes you to be unable to move any direction but backwards
just due to the nature of spheres
crystal kraken
like, getting fully stuck?
coarse token
vestibule on duskworld is a good example of this
Yeah not fully you can get out of it by going back the way you came but like, you can't move any other direction
with a cylinder collider you'd be able to slide along but capsules screw with everything because they're spherically topped
crystal kraken
tbh with a capsule you should very much slide along
that's just a quirk of the character controller being crap
coarse token
Eh, maybe, I don't think so, but I don't really have the finesse to explain exactly why the thing I'm describing occurs.
I'll just design my levels to not have ramps that are possible to get stuck under
coarse token
yeah and like I said, I know it's avoidable 99.999% of the time, but it's something about that little tiny error worst case scenario that just pisses me off something fierce
it's the one thing I can't get perfect with my movement
crystal kraken
funnily enough, there is one ramp in vestibule that has a huge block that doesnt let you go far enough to trigger it, the specific one you screenshoted doesnt
robust bolt
@vast thorn wjat kind of project is this?
vast thorn
really just a portfolio piece at this point
obviously still very early stage
been patching up the movement system in the past 2 months, this is probably the end of it for now
current milestones are to have a few weapons and UI up in August, basic enemy AI in September
and from October on it's building levels (and polishing/debugging along the way)
lofty dove
So...
white sage
A so deska
brittle yew
More System Shock 2 stuff -- the Pack Rat O/S upgrade now allows for stacking of food and junk items in addition to granting 3 more inventory spaces.
https://twitter.com/RoSoDude/status/1289644370979741698
I made a point to show off the worm-filling behavior with a stack of beakers because I had to reimplement it from scratch with a custom script so the whole stack doesn't get destroyed for only one beaker's worth of worms. NewDark is awesome!
shadow mist
i've never used a newer version of doom builder before so could somebody tell me how skyboxes work in Hexen mode for building Doom 2 maps
shadow mist
o
also how the fuck do doors work with hexen mode
i've never used the hexen mode before
shadow mist
i have two doors here
both have the exact same properties
but only one of them opens
fucking why
fuck it i'm redoing the sector
IT STILL DOESN'T WORK
Fuck this i'll do it later
unique trellis
why so you even work in Hexen mode instead of UDMF?
shadow mist
i switched to default mode
but i was also told to use Hexen cause apparently "its the best one"
unique trellis
UDMF is the best one, supports all modern features
Who told you Hexen is best? Somebody who hasn't touched doom mappin in the last 5-6 years?
That is the only reason why somebody would tell you that
shadow mist
probably
shadow mist
i am really not used to the newer versions of doom builder
did they remove the ability to make enemies deaf?
nevermind i see
its the ambush option
coarse token
I thought ambush and deaf were different
I haven't used a doom level maker in 6 years though so what do I know
weak lark
I went from DB2 to UDB and it resulted in me using the Stair Builder as an "Add Detail" button
robust ridge
Is there something udb offers that gzdb bugfix doesn't?
unique trellis
Been working on a private version of Quakespasm, mostly to practice some rendering but also to tweak a few things that have been bothering me.
Just finished making the light of the entities environment aware instead of using the light value of the brush below them (regardless of height).
In the second image you can see the zombies with varying degrees of brightness depending on where they are positioned.
tranquil oracle
Curious how you went about that
Checking surfaces in all 4 directions and using the lighting of the nearest?
unique trellis
I made a loop that check in sequence bottom, top and the four sides.
The two closest "light spots" are stored in a small vec3_t array.
Then I check if those two are within a reasonable distance from each other, if so I add them and assign the average as the entity lightning, otherwise I just use the closest
I am gonna improve the GL shadow casting next to make the projection have the same angle of the surface it is cast on
I already fixed mid air cast shadows
The check of the projection height was done vertically, instead of in the direction the shadow is being skewed
(white shadows for visibility only)
unique trellis
Oh I forgot, on the entity light I demultiply its intensity proportionally to the distance, if it is further than 360 units from the origin
unique trellis
I managed to cast the shadows on the brush surfaces
https://youtu.be/K0-HJyqT-sg
The realignment looks less foul when the shadow is black and alpha-ed
Wall shadows too
unique trellis
@tranquil oracle in case you wanna look at the code I made a pull request to the Quakespasm Github.
It's rather straight forward and I am sure you could figure it out on your own but if you just wanna read it it's at the bottom of gl_rlight.c
https://github.com/sezero/quakespasm/pull/5
sharp vortex
you're the golden souls dude? 
I've never played them, but I want to, and I've seen a ton of videos on it
pretty fucking cool looking though
swift glade
thank you!
sharp vortex
Odd choice putting it on itch though I must say
oh itch supports mods
nvm
me am dumb
slender knoll
you never tried any dusk maps? :D
also the level design looks pretty dope on golden souls 3
unique trellis
Doom 3 Golden Souls?
rustic holly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJc-xddcjHM
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2014706191
Come to twitch.tv/mariowned at 8:30PM CST to watch the map be played live!
I released the map!
misty sparrow
inland patrol
wow i love that level design 
the top two look especially rad, ancient sandy tombs and eerie haunted caverns
stark root
so how tricky is dusk to mod? ive never dug around in Unity before, some tips would be appreciated
keen bear
Well for you, you dont have to touch unity at all
stark root
nope. i have never made a map for any game
nor ported existing ones
haven't gotten around to learning it yet. doesn't mean i won't get around to it eventually though
pure jackal
Trenchbroom and JACK both work for map editors but the SDK is currently more specialized for Trenchbroom
stark root
mm
pure jackal
More info can be found in #dusk-modding
keen bear
yeah, what i meant is, you dont ever need to use unity to mod dusk
robust ridge
Da soldier gang
keen bear
are you opening a big project?
unique trellis
No, Unity crashed, I ended it's life through Task manager and then I restarted it and it took me like 2 minutes to start
Normally my programs start in like a second
shy hatch
Probably because you'ree in Vista
misty sparrow
how would you know if your OS affects things if you didnt even know you were running vista until today
unique trellis
Some of my friends who's good with PCs says that the Operating System doesn't affect the speed of my PC if i'm not infected with a virus
and since my PC isn't infected it can't affect it
hazy sorrel
os dosent affect anything
tired hound
you mean to say unity doesnt usually take a few min to launch? its never fast for me
tired hound
I dont know 100% what unity does when its first launching, but if unity crashed then maybe the longer startup was it trying to revert/fix anything bad that the crash caused
unique trellis
yeah that sucks
i started doing unity things for my first time today btw
do u think i will be able to create a gakme like dusk in short time?
sharp vortex
no
unique trellis
okay but
can i at least sell my weird asset trash flips for money until then
is that morally reprehensible?
sharp vortex
I'm not sure you'll even get that far, unless you learn C#
That's how you do literally anything in Unity.
Suppose if you're crafty enough to download scripts and figure out how to use them, you could get by with some held together by glue and cheetos
tired hound
If you know java tho the syntax isnt that different. at least it wasnt for me
sharp vortex
I don't know that FitMC knows any programming lmao
unique trellis
No i don't know any programming
sharp vortex
That's going to be your biggest hurdle, asset flips or not
because otherwise you're just sitting with a bunch of models and textures and sounds
even asset flips have some kind of game
usually
unique trellis
oh really
tired hound
there is visual scripting but idk if that comes out of the box and even then it would still be difficult
unique trellis
i thought i just throw a bunch of blocks and shapes and textures with sounds together
tired hound
if you do that then you wont be able to sell it for much. and even then i kinda doubt youl get people to buy it
sharp vortex
you still need to be able to make a player controller (camera that moves with wasd) etc
sharp vortex
C#
plain C or C++ is the best, but I recommend just doing C#
it's easier
and it's what unity uses
tired hound
i would say it depends on what game engine you use but it seems C# is in both unreal and unity, which are the most popular ones
sharp vortex
@tired hound Unreal is C++ and visual scripting
tired hound
welp nevermind
unique trellis
so which combination is easier, Unity or Unreal??
sharp vortex
Unity and C#
unique trellis
ok thx i will stick to unity then
so where can i learn C
will it be complicated???? >.<
sharp vortex
youtube, and probably
unique trellis
oh yeah thats true
sharp vortex
also googling is your friend
tired hound
^
unique trellis
yeah i just never know that i exactly need to type
sometimes i just google for somethin and i find like weird forums and such
it's annoying
sharp vortex
there's also tutorials for anything
So you can youtube "Unity player controller"
and some shmuck will show you what to type
etc
unique trellis
okay thanks
sharp vortex
"How to make Unity game" even lmao
sharp vortex
I went to college for "Computer Info Systems", which is programming. So I just kind of started doing them when I felt comfortable enough
Not as complex or useful for game dev as Computer Science
but eh
unique trellis
so im better off learning it all myself here at home
sharp vortex
Debatable. Depends on your will to learn by yourself.
There's a lot of self-made programmers and game devs out there with no college education at all.
tired hound
also your gonna get frustrated a lot sometimes. more than once, i have spend like half an hour searching my code to see what an issue is just to realize i mistyped a bracket or something easy to fix.
sharp vortex
yes lmao
its not awful if you end up liking it
but still kind of awful at the same time
unique trellis
I hope I will
tired hound
its not pleasant but if you push through youl be able to get it done
soon? maybe not lol
sharp vortex
it's awful at the moment I should say
unique trellis
how many years programming experience do you have
sharp vortex
idk like... 1 and a half?
sharp vortex
that's not really consistent though, there's months where I didn't touch it at all
unique trellis
Some people said my OS is probably not capable of it all
Should I still upgrade or am I fine
unique trellis
I always thought it doesnt matter what OS I have but now since people here told me I feel unsecure about it
tired hound
and also i dont think theyre pushing out security updates for it so its probrably not great in terms of security
sharp vortex
Im not sure your PC would be up to the task period. I can't say you probably have modern hardware if you're still using Vista
unique trellis
oh that doesnt affect me since i always have security updates turned off
they are annoying
tired hound
uhhhh
unique trellis
Well I don't know if my PC is capable of running a new version of windows
Can I see my hardware anywhere?
tired hound
wdym by that
sharp vortex
I don't remember how in Vista or 7
unique trellis
like
Your Gigabytes and stuff
And the stuff inside your PC
Like
I don't know how to explain it
Like, expensive PCs have better insides then older or cheap PCs
You get what I mean?
tired hound
if you open up ur pc then youl find everything but you might not understand what ur looking at.
sharp vortex
Press Windows Key + R, then type msinfo32
unique trellis
depending on how fast it can process date
tired hound
also did ur computer come with vista preinstalled?
white sage
msinfo provides more concise printouts than dxdiag I assume?
sharp vortex
it shows basic stuff at least Gek
tired hound
if so then while i reccomend updating i dont know if your pc could handle it
unique trellis
But it was so expensive that I didn't have money left for a Windows upgrade so I took any I still had
And I only had Vista lying around so I installed it
It was a pain because it always produced errors
I had to watch like 1000 Tutorials on YouTube
tired hound
if thats the case then it might not be that bad on more up to date versions of windows
hazy sorrel
we're back in 2007
tired hound
lol
tired hound
ive never heard of that os. hold on
unique trellis
And the System is from Micro Star International
unique trellis
Yeah I can try
white sage
oh yeah FitMC-fan I'd recommend cutting the BS and picking yourself a code-oriented game engine that you can work with in C or C++ (Those are my favorite languages, anyway. I also don't like GUI editors.) and compiling on GCC.
Don't bother trying to write your own engine, I did write my own and I can say that while it was highly educational I don't think it was worth the time or effort it took to do.
unique trellis
Oh wait really?
sharp vortex
can you uhhh
unique trellis
Do u think it can handle new Windows?
sharp vortex
scroll up a little bit
tired hound
although the screenshot isnt showing much more than the cpu
unique trellis
I can try
sharp vortex
the tippy top
unique trellis
oh
tired hound
i think you might have a better setup than me lol
unique trellis
Everything all right?
tired hound
i cant comprehend a lot of the stuff there but what i do know is that that proccesor is really good
did you buy a gaming pc?
unique trellis
Oh, that's good
hazy sorrel
excluding waste of resources
unique trellis
Well I don't know
hazy sorrel
its fine
unique trellis
At the time I googled everything I wanted and I told the PC Store how I wanted it and he has build the PC for me
It feels like 10 Years ago in my head tho
sharp vortex
????
unique trellis
Listen
Before I bought this PC I did a lot of research stuff
Like really much
But it's very very long ago
I can't remember much
sharp vortex
I'm being completely serious when I ask if you've hit your head recently
unique trellis
But it doesn't really matter since the PC does all I need
I'm being completely serious when I ask if you've hit your head recently
@sharp vortex What do you mean
hazy sorrel
i would switch to 10 instantly
hazy sorrel
yeah
tired hound
he says it feels like 10 years
unique trellis
Yeah, I usually don't remember when I got my PCs
tired hound
also yeah i highly reccomend you get win 10
sharp vortex
Can you go to Components in msinfo32, and then Display and take a pic of that?
unique trellis
Windows 10 is that any good?
sharp vortex
I want to see your GPU
tired hound
idk what the graphics card is but at this point i dont think that it matters as an os switch
tired hound
itl be a bumpy upgrade (knowing microsoft) but wow it would run so much better
unique trellis
uuuhhhh
when i open the components, it displays me like 1000000 additional categories
tired hound
try clicking display
sharp vortex
Display
tired hound
ooo my gosh
hazy sorrel
As long as its 8GB
unique trellis
It gets the job done
tired hound
dude you have great specs
hazy sorrel
Not really
sharp vortex
I mean, your OS isnt because most programs dont support Vista anymore
I don't think new Unity does either
hazy sorrel
Youre sitting on Vista
unique trellis
Well I don't have enough money to buy new Windows
Unless someone of you wants to buy me new Windows
topaz breach
it's like $30
hazy sorrel
do you have any spare win7 cd key
unique trellis
I don't know
topaz breach
if you can afford a 580 and a 1700 you should be able to afford a $30 windows key
unique trellis
Well, the PC is the reason I don't have much money left
sharp vortex
but you said you got it a long time ago...
hazy sorrel
you could always upgrade win7 key to windows 10
sharp vortex
have you had no money for 2-3 years?
sharp vortex
hmm I see
unique trellis
He lost his job like 4 or 5 years ago
hazy sorrel
it would be tied to your motherboard but you dont have to buy brand new license
unique trellis
Oh that's good