i also like e2m8
#dusk-duskworld-dungeonsofdusk
opal plover
Yeah in E2MS right?
mild ginkgo
but thats another that youll eventually get to play im sure
yep
only a very specific part of it though
crisp lion
the caverns?
opal plover
The part after the yellow door I think
The dig is E2M9
Did E2 always end with duskdude decending into ruins?
mild ginkgo
yeah afaik
man i forgot there are like 4 or 5 e2mS versions
its a shame that some of the concepts didnt work out
opal plover
Like mechanically?
crisp lion
and what concepts were they?
mild ginkgo
yeah mechanically, and layout
a way darker version of this
(this is one of the old versions of e2m8)
opal plover
Darker as in thematically?
opal plover
Also for the unused mechanics you should release the Episode 2 uncut dlc on steam for 15$
mild ginkgo
opal plover
That's generous
mild ginkgo
its actually not an unused mechanic
opal plover
20$
crisp lion
missith us with that CoD shit boy!
mild ginkgo
its just an application of the ones you have
opal plover
I see
crisp lion
older lighting is yum
opal plover
Anyways water in Episode 2
That's like not heard of
Also any interesting cut Episode 1 stuff?
opal plover
What you mean by that?
mild ginkgo
i cant wait to see how many times that gets revisions
look
its an ambitious level
thats all i can say
opal plover
I can already imagine all of the emotional sepia filter flashbacks to duskdude's traumatic childhood
mild ginkgo
yknow, that should be much further off than it actually is
opal plover
Wait that's rule 1 innit?
opal plover
Anyways hope the reveal is in tone with the game's "style over seriousness" nature
mild ginkgo
i dont think dave is capable of something entirely serious
crisp lion
have faith
crimson folio
ok i repaired these mods https://www.moddb.com/members/dataram-57/downloads
opal plover
The farm endless arena doesn't work does it?
Like I don't think it's playable
Also never forget this.
crimson folio
mild ginkgo
man music adds so much to e3 lol
ive never played it with music before
*until just now
opal plover
As far as I've heard E3 has the best tunes
crimson folio
i am deaf XD
opal plover
Also if I were you I'd change this.
opal plover
Oh
Least I can say is this dude doesn't have the best reputation
Probably not the best thing for Dusk
crimson folio
yeah
opal plover
👍
winged otter
Unbeholden? i know that name,what he do wrong?
opal plover
Alegedly thing that can't be spoken of here.
Apart from reposting other people's mods
opal plover
I really don't know it's pretty baseless to be honest, let's keep it at he reposts other people's mods for now.
winged otter
i remember him spamming everyone PM on ModDB
opaque spindle
whoever he is it isn't Dusk
opal plover
Will it be possible to change it?
graceful wing
Usually during frag nights
DW is in early beta and doesn't have all that much content yet
prisma halo
TheUnbeholden
of course
the dude that reuploads everyone's mods without permission and refuses to take them down 😒
vast tangle
Seems like a shady fellow
graceful wing
Yeah let's not get into him here
vocal chasm
When's the DUSK on Ti-81 version coming?
vocal chasm
fuck
I don't have one.
graceful wing
Oh shit it's actually out
fast wigeon
dusk for the magnavox odyssey when
graceful wing
Right now
opaque spindle
Everyone look under your chairs
graceful wing
Dave hid the dusk source code under there printed on punch cards
opaque spindle
Now you can make your own dusk!
fast wigeon
wow finally!!!!!
vocal chasm
I'm gonna riot if the Dusk sequel isn't called Dawn
fast wigeon
the sdk is called dawn tho
opaque spindle
The sdk is called Dawn
vocal chasm
fuq
opaque spindle
Dusk 2 will be called Duskier
vocal chasm
where's the nearest bridge? I need to pull a Javert
graceful wing
Ok Google, plot a route to the nearest bridge
vocal chasm
wait, no pls
jaunty meteor
Just because the SDK is called DAWN doesn't mean the sequel couldn't also be called that!
they could call the SDK for it DUSK
jade root
Ok Alexa play dusk
atomic egret
This is so sad gamer moment Alexa play duskpacito
graceful wing
Alexa, save this into my cringe compilation
crimson folio
Oh we talking sequels now... Dusk 2 Dawn?
vocal chasm
Dusk 2: Even Duskier
prisma halo
Well technically Dawn is an "unofficial" name
Dawn refers to the prototype SDK I was working on before I was doing the SDK officially
Back when it was just a fan project
prisma halo
Episode 3 will be released on the date that episode 3 will be released on
#EpicLeaks
vale oar
Genius
shut mesa
Dusk 2: musky edition
vale oar
Elon Musk Episode 3
spare cobalt
give me a shard of your soul and you can have mine
topaz oracle
How about a spin-off called MUSK where you fight evil in a tesla?
flint cedar
What about SPACE DUSK where you have to fight evil on Mars? Oh wait it's called DOOM :v
spare cobalt
man just found a basketball in e1m2
I know my JC well enough to know where it goes but did not expect this
too bad this run is in intruder mode :(
vale oar
@spare cobalt GOOD this run is on Intruder mode. Picking all those weps on the second fuckin map completely ruins the balance
spare cobalt
yea but you aint gonna find that on your first playthru :P
I did some amateur speedrunning on e1 one or two months back
I THOUGHT I knew the maps well enough excluding one or two secrets
gotta put my learning pants back on
vale oar
:3
crimson folio
You're not a real Dusk fan if you don't have the level 5 badge
spare cobalt
you talking about some trading cards?
mmeeeeh
note to self: bringing sickles to a intoxigator fight is a bad idea
died four times in old time religion because of trying to pull cool moves like that
crimson folio
NICE PLACE TO HIDE
vale oar
lmao
mild ginkgo
lel
prisma halo
how did you get in there? 🤔
crimson folio
magic
prisma halo
I can think of a few non-legitimate ways to get in there
mild ginkgo
i mean, you could get in using the crossbow
but it seems that was not the likely method
theres a bunch of ways it couldve been done
prisma halo
yeah
mild ginkgo
just be wary not to get caught ;)
jaunty meteor
Hey, just an idea; when the full game comes out, could the "goodies" folder be its own free DLC? It's 400MB and if more builds are added post-launch that's probably going to grow
It'd be nice to have the OG game be as small an install as possible and have the bonuses be something you can optionally download
thorn trout
I don't plan on adding any more builds but we could certainly talk about doing that
@gleaming berry plz adviz
gleaming berry
I mean we have hundreds of builds
The goodies folder isn't really a fun surprise if it's DLC
kinda ruins it
But yeah the extra MB isn't ideal
We could chop it down or zip stuff maybe
We'll see
pale lichen
7z files might be ideal
thorn trout
the pre alpha and the 2016 e3 one are really the only ones interestingly different enough to add imo. Although we plan on having others available somewhere in the future
pale lichen
or just regular zip files w/e
fast wigeon
i guess you could cut out the icons folder
gleaming berry
We had an E3 2016 build?
mild ginkgo
the biggest thing left are individual maps
fast wigeon
ye i guess its worth keeping then
mild ginkgo
which we can just package up elsewhere
fast wigeon
although is 400mb really that much either
thorn trout
@gleaming berry yeah you had me do it for e3 2016 in case you wanted to show it privately but I don't think that ever happened. It's interesting for sure.
pale lichen
goodies folder goes down from 403MB to 158MB with 7zip, 180MB with normal windows zip compression
topaz oracle
2016 demo was a lot of fun
thorn trout
playing it again I think I actually like the hammer better than the sickles :P
oh well
fast wigeon
im surprised the e3 demo had projectile reflecting but the final game didnt
until the sword update
vale oar
hammer + sickles = co.... OH WAIT
thorn trout
@fast wigeon naw that's remained in. You could always reflect with the sickles
mild ginkgo
the whole time
mild ginkgo
yeah its never explained to the player
but all projectiles can be reflected with a well timed sickle swing
jade root
I like the shotgun. Hybrid between the rifle in Chasm and the Q1 shotgun
mild ginkgo
i just like the green fireballs
fast wigeon
the leathernecks look so out of place in that e3 build
when theyre along side the kinda realistic undead dudes
jade root
Man of all the changes we made to dusk
topaz oracle
the newer models are absolutely better
jade root
I still think the machine gun fire rate was the worst thing we did
jade root
Yep
fast wigeon
what was the rof lowered
jade root
Nah it was inconsistent
jade root
Made it feel like an old rusty rifle
Ye
Loved it to death
But people thought it was a bug
#sads
mild ginkgo
yeah some people were convinced the game was lagging when they fired it
fast wigeon
they removed that but still kept scarecrows having random shots
topaz oracle
forget dusk guys wheres the next version of pit.exe
jade root
Remember when ladders were the worst thing ever
thorn trout
yeah the ladders used to be horrific
also flipping in the e3 demo is kind of the worst thing ever too
you land and random crap happens
mild ginkgo
how about when mouse input was tied to framerate
or the other way around?
i forget
i think it was capped at 60hz
jade root
I've always liked the mortar
fast wigeon
when the totem was a thing
jade root
Even from the demo version
topaz oracle
did the dusk story/setting evolve with the game, or was there always a general sense of direction and finality?
jade root
It was a bit different
Lovecraft elements were always there
But not as much as it is now
topaz oracle
this might be a dumb question but what does morale impact in game
fast wigeon
its armour
thorn trout
the story/setting are very different now than they were originally
jade root
Yeah it's just armor
topaz oracle
OH duh LOL
jade root
Oh really? From what you told me David it seems more similar
topaz oracle
HEY i did sa ythis might be a stupid question 😎
fast wigeon
i mean morale=armour isnt exactly obvious
thorn trout
@jade root I mean they seem really different to me, but maybe that's not really the case
jade root
Idk how people don't notice that taking damage decreases both health and morale
jade root
Not to mention if there's three big numbers on screen in a retro fps it's usually health armor and ammo
winged otter
remember to get some sleep if you want high morale 
fast wigeon
ye but not everyone is accustomed to that
topaz oracle
yea that more than anything make me feel a bit dumb
fast wigeon
i only figured out it was armour because it was a big number on the left
but not everyone will be able to do that
jade root
Not my fault they aren't omega gamers like me 😎
topaz oracle
how long has the cigar been been on slot 0? I found it by accident the other day and had a chuckle
jade root
Forever
topaz oracle
hah, is that duke reference?
winged otter
remember to get some sleep if you want high morale
thorn trout
cigar was in before NB was publishing
@topaz oracle pretty much yeah
not SPECIFICALLY but also... yeah a Duke reference
topaz oracle
the military guys really give me a HL1 vibe too, I dig it
all in all I think you struck a nice balance between 1996/8 and today
thorn trout
@topaz oracle 👍
mild ginkgo
i mean like very few people have played a build with the chainsaw
winged otter
didnt know that chainsaw was in Dusk
jade root
There was
thorn trout
it was yeah, but it sucked
fast wigeon
ye only in the super super early builds tho
jade root
It was meh
thorn trout
everyone's like "omg I wish there was a chainsaw in Dusk" but like... it didn't work very well
woeful sonnet
I mean the only thing the chainsaw was good for in the original doom was pinkies
woeful sonnet
I mean it was really really good for pinkies but still.
fast wigeon
but ye it was pretty useless
winged otter
berserk fist was better
thorn trout
as soon as I played nuDoom I was like "yeah the chainsaw is getting cut." Just not in the same universe of satisfaction. So you get the crossbow instead :)
mild ginkgo
boy DO we get the crossbow
thorn trout
I mean I think it's possible to do a satisfying chainsaw without that level of animation etc but not with the Dusk limitations
fast wigeon
ut had a pretty good chainsaw
but it was hidden in a mutator and kinda useless against real players
winged otter
red filter gonna stay for 30 seconds,dont bothered me
also Dusk crossbow is inspired by Heretic crossbow?
thorn trout
@winged otter yeah absolutely
jade root
I'm so glad David got rid of weapon breaking. Originally guns would break after 10-20 uses, then you'd have to pick up a new one. He was taking inspiration from hotline Miami (one of his favorite games ever made)
thorn trout
directly inspired
vast tangle
Well, the chainsaw would give ep 1 a nice Evil Dead vibe, I reckon
but if it can't be done, oh well
thorn trout
@jade root that trolling is so high level it comes full circle and is bad again
winged otter
i respect that choice,Heretic is one of the best games of my life
fast wigeon
fun fact dusk was originally going to have a crafting and survival system
thorn trout
@vast tangle some modder might do it.
fast wigeon
with a planned battle royale mode
jade root
Quit pretending it wasn't in
slate edge
Dusk is Cancelled, we need to do battle royale now
winged otter
nah,walking simulator with MOBA elements
fast wigeon
DUSK: CRAFT, EXPLORE, SURVIVE
jaunty meteor
@gleaming berry RE: Goodies folder, I hope you don't outright remove anything! It's all very cool stuff and I'm grateful to have it available, I was just concerned about keeping the install clean because I'm dumb like that
gleaming berry
we'll look into it for launch
but I mean you have it all NOW
so like
u already hav it
thorn trout
I don't intend to remove anything
worst case scenario it will just be moved to a zip or something, but you'll be able to access all the content you have now one way or another
jade root
To think DUSK was supposed to have FMV cutscenes too. All directed by David using his "prestigious" film degree, but after watching about 30 second of one, I can see why David pursued a different career path.
fast wigeon
dusk for sega cd when
slate edge
Big John .fmv cutscene
vast tangle
Oooooooooh I need to see those
topaz oracle
will dusk run on my VooDooFX?
jaunty meteor
That sounds good though
Make lumpy, smoothed-out versions of all of Dusk's playermodels in blender, put a lot of unfitting bump/specular maps on all of a map's surfaces, then make a poorly-animated video with them and render it in 640x480
perfect FMV for your game!
jade root
It got real weird when David started adding unity chan to everything
crisp lion
I believe a DUSK-fitting chainsaw could work, model and animation wise
jade root
Mod it in
crisp lion
I barely know shit about modelling and animating, I can only frankenmodel age of mythology models, attach, stooge around with animation keys, and UV map stuff
tepid grotto
anyone willing to spill the beans as to where the secret is on the factory survival level for ya boy.
opal plover
@fast wigeon I still don't understand what's wrong with the scarecrow's shotgun spread.
serene needle
Dude
I've been looking head to toe looking for the factory survival secret and you just do me like that?
damb
mild ginkgo
maybe one will be added
when we launch the game out of early access, all current content will also be reevaluated
dim valve
you know, I didn't really want to admit this to the server but the E3 2016 demo really reignited my love for Dusk. I don't know if it's just the lack of any new content aside from the 1 finished duskworld map, but it really scratched an itch, you know?
also playing Dusk without bunnyhopping feels completely different
mild ginkgo
interestingly, that e3 build does have bhopping
its just the old antiquated harder version
where you have to alternate strafe keys every jump
jaunty meteor
The kind where you'd be hardpressed to do it at all in that weird cramped map
mild ginkgo
^
jaunty meteor
You have halo jumps, that's the bigger issue with bhopping
mild ginkgo
i also just went through the same thing, but my version was playing a few of the first pass episode 3 maps
boy that was a ride
dim valve
ahh, I thought it felt faster when I tried something like that
at first I thought you had to hold a and d at the same time
lol
jaunty meteor
Pls put the creepy headless guy in the SDK as a generic melee monster so I have zombie cannon fodder for my horror map 💦
thorn trout
@dim valve honestly I'm still torn on whether having bunnyhopping the way it's implemented in Dusk was a good idea. Kind of turned combat more simplistic.
dim valve
it makes the outdoor levels much more bearable, but the indoor levels a bit awkward at times
brain fart
jaunty meteor
I like how bhopping works in Dusk for the most part
jaunty meteor
I don't think bhopping around erebus reactor is very "simplistic", if we're talking about open levels
dim valve
Yeah, Erebus Reactor feels great with bhopping, especially on the upper levels
thorn trout
I mean I don't use bunnyhopping in sp combat much at all. IMO it's a lot more fun to play without.
thorn trout
you actually have to think about the space and your movement
dim valve
it has literally been since Christmas since I last played through it all
jaunty meteor
IDK, bunny hopping is part of what let me survive CM
jaunty meteor
I don't wanna imagine trying to kill Big John without it
dim valve
SUGGESTION: make big john able to bunnyhop on Duskmare to up the challenge
thorn trout
lol
dim valve
every time you change directions, he bhops the opposite way
thorn trout
I mean on the other hand it's fun to bunnyhop around everywhere, so I dunno
chalk it up on the list of things about Dusk that might be good or might not be good, I have no idea, oh god I've been working on this game for too long and I don't know if it's good or not
dim valve
was there ever a build where you could die from your own crossbow shots?
jaunty meteor
Bunnyhopping gave dusk a second wind for me
I went through all of EP1 without knowing about it, then one day I randomly was just strafing around while spamming jump and went "... oh...!"
opaque spindle
Well I mean its a 90s fps throwback
thorn trout
@dim valve naw they don't have any code for interacting with the player
dim valve
for me, I wasn't even interested in Dusk until I found footage of someone bhopping
opaque spindle
I feel like trying to bunnyhop should be the first thing you do
dim valve
wtf i can't bunnyhop in amid evil 0/10
mild ginkgo
david and i were doing VERY early tests
jaunty meteor
Bhopping in Quake is complex with only marginal gains in most maps, it's not really something you'd pick up as a habit unless you learned it through brute force
Whereas in Dusk you can discover bhopping by serendipity
thorn trout
@mild ginkgo ok yeah in Duskworld
dim valve
Bhopping in Quake doesn't even help that much due to the speed cap
mild ginkgo
it was not intentional
thorn trout
@jaunty meteor yeah if I did it over again I'd make bunnyhopping a lot harder. But then, the only reason it's fun for people like me is that it's not hard so...
I DUNNO
I DON'T KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG ANYMORE
dim valve
better than painkiller bhopping?
spare cobalt
shit didnt even know painkiller had bhop
dim valve
yeah, just hold forward and jump
spare cobalt
never gave it a thought lol
dim valve
you can bhop in 8 different directions but it kills your momentum
warped saffron
Everything about DUSK is better than everything about Painkiller.
dim valve
Painkiller is what people think old school fps was like, Dusk is what old school fps was actually like
though both have janky, funny physics objects for no reason
spare cobalt
painkiller had that 'cause physics and ragdolls were new, cool and the new par
dim valve
i know
jaunty meteor
If you wanted to turn your argument around and give bhopping a reason to be easy, add crash bandicoot relics and make people speedrun for 100%
spare cobalt
cant say that impaling ragdolls wasnt fun tho :P
thorn trout
@warped saffron I dunno I'm of the opinion that Painkiller's environmental art is pretty much untouchable
spare cobalt
totally agree on that one tho
thorn trout
The second to last level of Painkiller is like, transcendentally beautiful in a washed-out dreamy way
one of my favorite places in gaming
dim valve
is that the one with the runes you have to collect? never was a fan but it did look nice
thorn trout
yeah that's the one
dim valve
that's like the only official level I ever got lost in
thorn trout
it's not the best-playing level in the game for sure but I just adore the look and atmosphere
warped saffron
The environmental art is the best thing about Painkiller yeah, but nothing has really stuck with me over the years. I feel DUSK. Painkiller never managed to carve out a permanent spot in my brain.
Gotta respect the humility though. Humble David. ❤ :p
DUSK just has that "one of my favorite games" aura on it. And there's nothing you can do about it!
dim valve
Painkiller is the literal video game equivalent of a horror movie franchise. Think Hellraiser on this: you've got a cult-classic first installment, a decent sequel by some of the same team, a campy third installment with one-liners, and then the rest is just straight-to-steam bargain bin garbage on decreasing budgets
thorn trout
@warped saffron aww thanks :)
jaunty meteor
+1ing that, I went into Dusk expecting it to be anywhere from mediocre to OK and it became my GOTY of 2017/2018, either or
thorn trout
I think it's kind of interesting how divisive Painkiller's gotten over the years. Seems like there's a fair few retro FPS fans who just don't like it.
GOTY Heat Death :)
dim valve
in a world where you can download a doom pwad with 1000 monsters per level with tons of gibs from brootul duum, painkiller seems...
quaint
thorn trout
For me it's just a really nice mix of satisfying relatively brainless slaughter in really pretty maps with awesome atmosphere. I turn off the battle music and just soak it up while getting some fun mob slaughter.
dim valve
Average dus-I mean painkiller review:
it's not arcane dimensions 0/10
i really hate people like this
just because it's not a high-quality fanmade mod made over several years, it's garbage?
you're an idiot
thorn trout
tbh I don't blame people for feeling that way about Dusk. There's a bunch of free Doom/Quake mods by mappers who have perfected this sort of thing, then there's a $20 jank game buy some guy who's struggling to figure out how to make macaroni art
dim valve
realistically speaking, it would be next to impossible for a team with a budget and a deadline to match the quality of a mod for a classic game that took several years to make
you could have the most skilled map designers in gaming history and it would still not match the sheer scope of some mods out there
just due to time constraints alone
don't think that way, David. dab on them haters. I couldn't find an image of a leatherneck dabbing so this will have to do (1st result on google)
molten peak
thorn trout
Yeah that sort of thing doesn't matter to consumers though, nor really should it. They just care about the quality of what they're playing. With Dusk I tried to make sure it carves out its own path and has its own personality, and that seems to have resonated with people. But as much as they irritate me I also do kind of understand the "why would I buy this if I can just play Arcane Dimensions for free?" thing, if you're just looking for something that's "Quake but modernized."
ultimately though there are many more people who love Dusk so 
dim valve
just remember David: those are the vocal minority
the idiotic, annoying vocal minority
the silent majority will always think dusk is great
the problem comes when the silent majority doesn't leave enough comments or reviews like they should
a lot of word-of-mouth indie games end up failing because of that, and because of "not brutal doom 0/10" idiots
thorn trout
even so there's still a lot of positive reviews :)
dim valve
doesn't stop idiots on public places like youtube comments (uggghhh) leaving comments like "lol what is this asset flip" or whatever
if only youtube still had downvotes
molten peak
tbh the reason the silent majority is silent is because we can't be bothered to interact with those neanderthals
dim valve
^truth
molten peak
but I agree with the downvotes thing
Every limp-dick site has gotten rid of neg modding
dim valve
remember when words could have negative consequences?
molten peak
The Virgin Website: Youtube removed the downvotes, to create safe spaces for shitty opinions.
molten peak
The Chad Community: Rooster Teeth has FOUR negative connotations
Just wanted to make that joke, imdone
dim valve
@sick lintel didn't you make a dabbing leatherneck in SFM?
mild ginkgo
id like to point out that although arcane dimensions is great, it entirely lacks any form of cohesion
dusk is like a concept album, and AD is like a greatest hits album
spare cobalt
thats right. AD blew my balls to the wall but it's still a collection of pretty damn good maps
molten peak
Dusk metal opera when?
mild ginkgo
dusk actually has a progression
man ep3's is really great
like it definitely has the best feeling of progression of the three so far
dim valve
you start on a meathook and end up with your hooks buried in the final bosses meat 👀
dusk turtle
@thorn trout I think the crux of the "AD vs dusk" debate is that it's pretty obvious you were still learning while making the first episode (I don't mean that in a bad way)
crimson folio
You beat the game by jumping up on meat hooks thus triggering a restart of game and ITS THE SONG THAT DOESN'T END IT GOES ON AND ON MY FRIENDS...
dusk turtle
having played both episodes recently again, the divide between the two in terms of quality is pretty large, I think dusk really found itself with episode 2 in terms of scope and overall polish
mild ginkgo
yeah skacky, thats agreed
and i think ep3 tries some really ambitious stuff, we'll see how it ends up
dim valve
mfw david comes back 20 years later to remake E1's maps, Romero style
crimson folio
molten peak
@crimson folio Like in Pink Floyd's The Wall, the beginning of the first song and end of the last song loop perfectly (since concept album comparisons have alredy been made)
mild ginkgo
i mean, dave and david have spoken about the possibility of touching up e1 once all the content is there
dim valve
In the Episode 1 special edition, Big John shoots first
dusk turtle
I really think episode 1 could receive a couple additional passes to have it be more or less on the same level as episode 2, but that's my opinion
jaunty meteor
spoilers: the game loops on itself and EP1 becomes EP4
spare cobalt
NG+
jaunty meteor
I don't even know what could be changed to EP1 to make it much better, other than maybe giving it more striking setpieces in certain levels
dusk turtle
it's still pretty cool but episode 2 is where it's at for me (until episode 3 comes out? 😉 )
jaunty meteor
Like sewers/the level with tons of granite rock
dim valve
replace all empty fields with writing on the wall that says spooky shit, followed by rat jumpscares
spare cobalt
I hate you
dim valve
I know
spare cobalt
good
crimson folio
More chainsaws and NPCs
thorn trout
@dusk turtle yeah E1M1 was like... the third or fourth level I'd ever made, and we just went sequentially from there for the most part. We plan on going back over ep1 for some polish but I don't want to change too much in terms of gameplay or flow just because at this point it's hard to say what people might or might not want kept
crimson folio
Make it open world
molten peak
Reskin a rat into a ratattata as an easter egg
dim valve
@thorn trout I'm surprised you don't know this, but the secret of the gaming industry is to always make the first levels last so your acquired knowledge makes them better and the crowds are instantly won over
jaunty meteor
Maybe he DOES, mr. assumeboy
molten peak
Open world Dusk with light RPG elements with its own version of Uplay and online missions you can't hide
dusk turtle
@thorn trout for the most part I think episode 1 is good in terms of gameplay and setpieces, though some large spaces could probably be made a bit smaller, and some larger spaces could be made bigger (thinking of the cutty mine in particular), but it feels a bit barebones in terms of style compared to the really unique episode 2
dim valve
Dusk with forced PVP where Ceasepool just hops on your level and owns the fuck out of you when you're just trying to get the blue key
jaunty meteor
E1M1 isn't an infallible marvel of level design but it does such a good job at setting the tone that I think it's fine as is
crimson folio
If you ain't won't over by chainsaw dudes and meathooks you got a real problem
molten peak
Is Dusk the Dark Souls of Quake?
thorn trout
@dim valve I absolutely do know that, and that was originally the intent, but we ended up feeling like we couldn't do, say, m2 without knowing what m1 was like, etc.
dim valve
storyboard that shit m8
thorn trout
because Dusk has been such an iterative development cycle
jaunty meteor
Yeah, the thing that really sets Dusk apart from Quake/Doom is that there's a degree of continuity to its levels
dim valve
like you know Doom was made that way because E3M8 is total shitballs
crimson folio
E3m8 oof
dusk turtle
I also think the the flat tree cards as walls don't work very well when they're at eye-level in the outdoor maps, that already looked pretty weird to me in redneck rampage as well
thorn trout
@dusk turtle well some of that is definitely me having more experience in ep2, but some of it is also that ep1 is SUPPOSED to be pretty grounded compared with what follows. It sets the context for ep2 and ep3. So the focus is more on atmosphere than architecture setpieces
crimson folio
Like this group is all Dusk experts
dim valve
Episode 1 needs more fauna, I think the special editions should have more black phillips in the foreground obscuring our actors while they search for the cantina in E1M7
crimson folio
First time playing I was glad for the more "simple" world of episode 1
mild ginkgo
e3m8 is WHACKY
dim valve
Doom or Doosk?
dusk turtle
oh yeah I definitely get that there's a progression in themes, but it's just that I feel it could maybe be slightly weirder
mild ginkgo
doom
crimson folio
Doom boss battles... Baron of Hell reveal was best, Icon of sin... Rest were bad
dim valve
what if in E3 you have to face the duke brothers again but because they were punished by the cult leader, they're tiny now?
but still do the same amount of damage of course
thorn trout
there's also a bit of a divide between what I originally wanted to do with the visuals and what it turned out everyone else wanted. I took a lot of joy in finding weird semi-iconic visual quirks like the trees in Redneck Rampage and emulating them, because I love that sort of thing. But I think most people were looking for a modernized interpretation of low poly visuals.
So in Ep2 I kind of abandoned that drive for visual authenticity
dim valve
There's just a destroyed city in E3 with a gigantic intoxigator as a boss and a text popup stating "INTOXZILLA!!!"
thorn trout
and tbh I made a few missteps with the textures that leads to a lack of authenticity anyway so... 🤷
jaunty meteor
"I took a lot of joy in finding weird semi-iconic visual quirks like the trees in Redneck Rampage and emulating them, because I love that sort of thing."
That's actually part of what drew me in, and I'll chime in and say that while I like EP2's gameplay more than EP1, I like the visuals of EP1 more
I know there's probably no room for it in EP3 at this point but I was secretly hoping that there'd be a level that emulates the "forest canvas" effect in Blood's crystal lake level...
dusk turtle
yes, there is always the dilemma of staying as true to 96-98 FPSes as possible and somewhat modernizing it
dim valve
mod it in, flotilla
jaunty meteor
So pretty
dusk turtle
I think that your approach with episode 2 was the right one, the game really clicked with me then
thorn trout
@jaunty meteor yeah that style of trees in build games is just BEAUTIFUL
dusk turtle
yeah, the trees in blood are still noticeably different than redneck rampage's though 😛
thorn trout
@dusk turtle well that's good! Ep3 continues in that vein for the most part :)
spare cobalt
what I really liked about episode 2 was that when you're starting it you kinda feel like you already "know whats going on" but then it just blows it all away
dusk turtle
yeah I saw the PAX demo of episode 3 and it looked rad
spare cobalt
not talking about gameplay about the world and the feel
dusk turtle
I love all your crazy ideas and setpieces
I'm a pretty boring level designer compared to you when it comes to that
spare cobalt
first time I played I got caught off guard by big john as I was still partly gazing at the sky
mild ginkgo
man that pax demo was rough compared to what it is now
dim valve
t-posed enemies
mild ginkgo
i almost feel bad about how that went down
i tried to get david to kill dave before he reached the tposing enemies
dusk turtle
lol
dim valve
still not as bad as the first ever Amid Evil demo at pax
dim valve
where they had to turn on god mode because the game wasn't balanced yet
I approve of that idea, 500_pts
thorn trout
@dusk turtle ehh, I have grand ideas I guess but that's not necessarily the same thing as a good level
dusk turtle
oh but there are good levels in dusk, don't worry about that
I like to be surprised in games so I really enjoy all of the weird shit you throw at the player
thorn trout
👍
I think the best one I've done as far as cohesive level design is E3M2. It's probably not going to wow people but I'm super proud of how it turned out
dusk turtle
yeah that was super unexpected
going back to AD vs dusk, in this particular case, at least two level designers who made maps for AD are veteran level designers
dim valve
@thorn trout classic FPS games were all about making the best with what limitations they had. For instance, nothing in today's games will ever compare to the Fruit Fucker from Nathan Lineback's unfinished masterpiece Marswars 2.
No, I don't dream of the Fruit Fucker, I just thought this would make an interesting boss
level. You exit the level by getting juiced.
mild ginkgo
yeah i mean look at simon's portfolio lmao
dim valve
savage
dusk turtle
yep
thorn trout
yeah there's no competing with that lol
dusk turtle
I'm honestly in awe of david's output with all these levels, I think my brain would explode if I had to make this many levels
dim valve
i would just turn to OBLIGE and convert them to Unity's map format and then say they were my own
thorn trout
mine has come close for sure
dim valve
Does that mean E3M10 will start with players having to read all the negative Steam reviews in a horror montage like the creepy actual children's drawings from the last episode of Evangelion? 
thorn trout
lol
no I have less than 0 right to complain about any negative reviews
considering how well Dusk has done overall
thorn trout
well yeah sure some of them are stupid
thorn trout
"this game is awesome but why no summer sale"
dim valve
finna
dusk turtle
rofl
mild ginkgo
i have to admit the "just play brutal doom" ones still irk me
dusk turtle
ew
thorn trout
but other than that sort of thing I'm very privileged and probably undeserving of the success with Dusk I've had so far, so it would be silly to focus on a few negative reviews
even ones that prefer Brutal Doom ;)
mild ginkgo
to me, its not that i care they prefer BD, its that they suggest they are comparable products
dim valve
Strafe is better, -10/10
dusk turtle
well, the game has an overwhelmingly positive rating, I guess that's pretty good
mild ginkgo
yeah for sure
mild ginkgo
its very well rated, we have NO place to complain
thorn trout
well, I suppose I could complain that Amid Evil has 1% more :3
mild ginkgo
and for people with actionable complaints, we do our best to act on
thorn trout
DAMN YOU NEW ZEALAND
dim valve
You can't aim down your cigar's sights, 0/10
A developer has posted a response to this review
spare cobalt
there are many games that claim to capture the essence of 90's fps but rarely deliver
I felt right at home in dusk and a big part of that is movement. if it doesnt feel right just off the bat it wont feel any better later
jaunty meteor
Did you guys ever consider putting a low pass filter on the audio when underwater?
I was rewatching the EP3 footage and it's a little odd how the fireball sounds completely crisp and normal while wading around 15ft underwater
opal plover
^Yeah small things like that would complete the dusk experience
thorn trout
@jaunty meteor not quite that simple but it would be nice yeah
opal plover
Also @mild ginkgo did the stuff from the pax demo really change that much? The only stuff I can imagine is the bone monks's animations.
Also speaking of which do they still fire fireballs?
And is that still their animations?
mild ginkgo
thats like the only level that hasnt changed too much from the pax demo
because like david said, its a really complete idea of a level
jaunty meteor
Yeah, the E3 demo is only a fraction of the full final level, "Fire and Ice and Too Much Water"
opal plover
I don't really see anything too janky in E3M3
mild ginkgo
e3m3 has been improved
thorn trout
There haven't been many significant redesigned areas, but a lot of little tweaks
mild ginkgo
^
red gale
I was always of two minds about some of the architectural stuff in Dusk. on one hand it's suppose to be geometrically and tonally limited in the same way Quake and the limited 3D of the Build engine was, but after playing Arcane Dimensions there is a lot you can push with that sort of engine and map editor. But that's a Apples and Oranges argument.
mild ginkgo
the encounter design in e3m3 is way way way better now
red gale
also im a artist so maybe i see things more aesthetically rather then for function of level design.
opal plover
Anyways I hope E3 retained that "upside down" thematic Dave talked about in the E2 pax demo
jaunty meteor
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-iDJOJ3gHGcg/VqkGAtr7a_I/AAAAAAAACpQ/ejlIQhbq_nU/s1600/Unity+2016-01-27+12-58-37-64.png Silent Hill level in the expansion pack confirmed?!?!
opal plover
Oh wow that's a real neat looking level, did David post this on twitter?
jaunty meteor
Nope, ages ago on his blogspot
This was months before it was picked up by New Blood
sly path
I can imagine.
opal plover
That tv chatter filter on the fog though
red gale
broken entities for miles
opal plover
Oh man I'm rewatching the E3 demo and the iron cathedral's ambiance theme might just be my favorite of the game.
Alongside E1M3, E2M7 and E2M8 it really sets the tone
thorn trout
@red gale there's a bunch of complications involved there too. Like, adding more polygonal detail can get to be an exponential difficulty thing, and texturing stuff well can get difficult because a lot of Dusk textures just don't work as well as Quake textures, because I didn't know what sort of textures I needed to do, and I didn't know that a lot of experienced mappers/texture artists know to keep textures and geometry sort of "aligned" on a common grid
jaunty meteor
Texture alignment is for nerds, I'd rather smoke weed
thorn trout
Put another way, in some cases I was purposely trying to be as authentic as possible. In other cases it actually looks worse than it should, because at some point in the convoluted mess of a workflow that designing this stuff from the ground up is I made a mistake that reverberates through everything else
opal plover
Oh hey speaking of, David how do you make the textures for dusk?
thorn trout
@mild ginkgo fun fact, iirc that level got borked up because I accidently overwrote a prefab of some sort with, like, the entire level or something like that
warped saffron
Texture alignment is for DOOM and Quake maps. DUSK BREAKS ALL THE RULES MAAANNN!!!
And I do love it.
thorn trout
@opal plover I use Krita for drawing them if they're from scratch or editing them if they're from a photo, then use Gimp to do palette and color adjustments
mild ginkgo
@opal plover e3 contains a BUNCH of the best music in the game, both ambient, and otherwise
thorn trout
^^^
opal plover
I can hear that alright
thorn trout
People are aware how big a task I have but Andrew has had quite a difficult time too.
mild ginkgo
on top of other noises
opal plover
The horrors?
thorn trout
He's turned out an insane amount of work, and agonized over trying to make it as good as possible
red gale
I'm sure one of those programs must have a grid tool. God, doing properly repeating texture tiles without one sounds painful
dusk turtle
yeah it's very important to have your textures built on grid, you hair will thank you later
thorn trout
@dusk turtle yeah, well, hindsight :P
jaunty meteor
He had to bang on at least 5 different kinds of trash cans for EP3 alone!
red gale
hard enough doing 128x128 or whatever sized textures and making it read well within the palette
thorn trout
also there's so much organic polygonal weirdness stuff in Dusk that it might not have even mattered
opal plover
Organic as in litterally I suspect
red gale
explains some of what i saw in the mage textures.
mild ginkgo
and even on top of that, you also made the decision to keep funky shaders to a minimum
the game couldve been loaded with them
thorn trout
also I only learned, like, a week or two ago that ProBuilder has a stitching hotkey, because it's only vaguely covered in the manual UV part of the manual (why you'd want to know about something for automatic alignment in the section about manual editing is beyond me). So that's like every level in the game that doesn't use something that could have solved a bunch of my texture alignment issues
mild ginkgo
i wonder if the old version had it
thorn trout
I'm not sure. I only learned about it because I mentioned something about alignment to Dillon and he was like "just do this" and I was like "umm excuse me?"
red gale
welp. who on the team wants to go back to the past 22 levels and realign all the textures?
opal plover
Speaking of that Epidoe 1 repass
red gale
probably wouldnt make that much of a difference, right?
thorn trout
@red gale When we do a polish pass I might address some of the more glaring issues but for the most part I don't think it's worth the time other than to appease Doom/Quake modders
dim valve
@jaunty meteor Underwater effects in old school fps usually require the use of specialized reverb presets. ZDoom is hardcoded to use the EAX Underwater parameters if the option is toggled in the menu. I tossed around the idea of revamping Dusk's levels with Unity's reverb zones, but I don't know if that will be possible with the SDK or if it will break compatibility with later updates.
thorn trout
glhf
opal plover
David you'd better not have shortened this area
dim valve
green and red? good lord, he really is taking inspiration from sandy petersen, now
opal plover
red gale
give him credit, it's a more saturated green/red then quake ever had
opal plover
I just realised they look like they have the same lengh in both pics 🤔
dim valve
Episode 3 is the key to all this, it's a funnier episode than quake ever had
red gale
after looking at a lot of Dusk enviroments, i can confirm that it is a very fucking spikey game
everything seems to look sharp and uncomfortable, which purely hard edges naturally do
crimson folio
Krita is good. I like it for texture work for Blood. It's just real simple to use
thorn trout
@opal plover it's the same :)
opal plover
Where did the jumppads go though
dim valve
Episode 3 is stylistically designed to be that way, and you can't undo that, but we can diminish the effects of it
opal plover
Wait undo what?
dim valve
David may have gone too far in a few places
thorn trout
lol
crimson folio
The jumppads are ROTTing away somewhere eeeeeeeh
thorn trout
they were not fun. You got caught on the spikes and stuff and they didn't really add anything to the encounter
there are jump pads in other places :)
don't worry
thorn trout
lol now THAT would be like RoTT :P
opal plover
I always thought that room looked like a waaaaaay bigger gauntlet and that you could get up on ledges
With the lava windows
mild ginkgo
yeah the jumppads really added nothing to that encounter
and only served to frustrate
jaunty meteor
really? i thought they improved the encounter vastly
you should send me the build that has those jumppads so I can play it again, as I already once have
thorn trout
wat how did you play it
jaunty meteor
I wish I had the know-how, just goofing
I can't even open archives more complex than a zip file :B
mild ginkgo
nah the only thing we ever accidentally shipped was e2m9
for about a day, in the episode 1 build
our pirate friend has kindly provided a video
you can see the early scientists who make leatherneck noises
crimson folio
but now i am a legal boy
crimson folio
o k
mild ginkgo
:D
opal plover
Why is dusk your only steam game?
rare musk
Good that you bought it, but don't go around talking about pirated stuff, in particular where to find it
crimson folio
k
gleaming berry
OK I READ EVERYTHING
WHAT A WASTE OF TIME FUCK
Ep 3 is just memes
the Horrors shout DO U KNOW DA WAE when u see them
its awful
opaque spindle
who says its a joke
crystal vessel
If that were the case I'd get the game removed from my steam library
mild ginkgo
ouch
jaunty meteor
Never thought I'd see someone buy their first steam game, whoa
Hope it's the first of many!
opal plover
I wonder how much of old E3M1 is left.
crisp lion
the Candelabras
I'm just wondering if the Lost Soul-esque enemys are coming back
since we need more than one flying enemy
opal plover
Nope
crisp lion
but I guess we'll probably get a flying Boss or some shit
rare musk
Who needs flying enemies
opal plover
Don't forget the flying blood balls
prisma halo
Manniacc your dedication to preserving and researching literally anything and everything DUSK genuinely impresses me
opal plover
Yeah didn't you see the gif in the flesh level?
crisp lion
there was a .gif now?
opal plover
crisp lion
Well at least there's an enemy that has an area attack
Also weren't smaller versions of the Guardian planned?
crisp lion
and the files suggest that a third-level cultist in a black robe maybe planned for Ep3 (considering the appearance of the red mages in the 2nd episode)
opal plover
I'm pretty sure Dave mentionned Green robed ones like two times?...
mild ginkgo
those are Bone Balls for the record
crisp lion
thank you data files very cool!
opal plover
That's their official name?
mild ginkgo
its their entity name
prisma halo
I don't know about that, but it's the internal name at least
mild ginkgo
but yeah, as for official name who knows
anyways, those were quite linked to the soldier heads
opal plover
Mechanically?
mild ginkgo
yes
prisma halo
think of the old bone balls as Dusk's pain elementals
crisp lion
I wouldn't be too surprised if we see any soldiers in the third episode, considering it make sense they would've made expeditions into "The Nameless Dimension" though current evidence suggests otherwise.
mild ginkgo
i wont go into too much detail because its still possible the heads get used
opal plover
Yeah in E3M2 one of them was holding the blue key
mild ginkgo
who knows
prisma halo
yeah, best not to say too much about them
opal plover
The plot thickens
crisp lion
there was an older version of the mage that was basically a green version of the old soldier without a head or arm
though I seriously doubt they'll return, since the mages already exist
opal plover
I mean Episode 3 is pretty late in development, I think you already implemented the soldier heads and you're doing a fakeout
prisma halo
yeah I don't think the proto mages will return
opal plover
Shame, I liked the cenobite look
mild ginkgo
you underestimate how many changes happen between rough drafts and the finished level
opal plover
I know I was just goofing
opal plover
Also is there an infinite ammo cheat yet?
crisp lion
CONSOLE IT
gleaming berry
crimson folio
Make the level editor, (that will be safer)
prisma halo
lol
mild ginkgo
the classic
that happens if you join a server while its switching maps
itll be fixed in the next major patch
crisp lion
the DOOSK Unity18 edition patch
mild ginkgo
correct
it will likely not be updated until it gets merged into dawn
which will be ages from now
prisma halo
yeah
crimson folio
Assets/Resources/Scenes/ImportScene.unity
prisma halo
I don't think that scene is even used for anything
crimson folio
Do something with it
prisma halo
It'll be removed eventually lol
crimson folio
😥
mild ginkgo
it was for importing that smoke as a prefab i think?
mild ginkgo
it most definitely is not
it might actually be a template scene
given it contains everything to create a new map
prisma halo
that's true
mild ginkgo
regardless, it serves no gameplay or functional purpose
and contains nothing of any interest
prisma halo
I still love mapcreationscene
mild ginkgo
its like abstract art
prisma halo
it's like a Postal level
opal plover
What the fuck is in mapcreationscene?
prisma halo
mild ginkgo
i posted it here a few months ago
sly path
Wowie.
opal plover
Oh that's what that dude was talking about?
crisp lion
what of Episode 2
prisma halo
mapcreationscene2
mild ginkgo
opal plover
I just saw that he said "Is that the episode 1" or something
crisp lion
opal plover
And I thought you teased E3MS or something
opal plover
And it would start as an E1 map and turn into An E3 thing
fair mirage
e3mss, mapcreation scene where everyone's enormous
opal plover
Show us mini infernal machine
fair mirage
that's a big tube
crisp lion
Well when you're grinding up most of a population you gotta have a YUGE tube
prisma halo
the best map is ProBuilderTest
opal plover
Those all look interesting
prisma halo
prisma halo
lightmaptest1 always fucks me up because Unity's object outline never matches its actual shape
crisp lion
ik screens won't be shown, FOR OBVIOUS REASONS, but is Ep3's mapcreationscene made?
opal plover
At the same time I feel like the miniatures could have matched the actual levels better
prisma halo
@crisp lion 😶
fair mirage
rip
prisma halo
It counts as one imo
opal plover
Depends if they do it at the very end
prisma halo
Anything can be a spoiler
crisp lion
everything is a spoiler apparently 😑
opal plover
Anyway at the same time it's this quirky jank that I like sometimes(about the minis not matching the levels)
But still E2M1 could have been on a concrete base
prisma halo
I find it amusing that we still have early drafts of the reveal trailer
crisp lion
IIRC the data files basically have the audio for the trailers
prisma halo
iirc trailermockup1 WAS used in one of those drafts
mild ginkgo
prisma halo
but was cut from the final trailer
vale oar
mild ginkgo
?
vale oar
Lmao this one looks like bamboo grove
fair mirage
david really likes tubes
crisp lion
why Daverino why
opal plover
THE CLAW OF EVIL
prisma halo
The Dark Claw
mild ginkgo
sadly
vale oar
Worry not, cause "MOD IT IN"
opal plover
And "MISSION PACK"
prisma halo
I did, indeed
opal plover
Did you mod the irregular ass rifle firing rate?
opal plover
DO IT
crisp lion
So the M16, Dark Claw, Pump-Action Shotgun, Glock (well called Makarovs erroneously), Pump Action Dual Shotgun are the definitive cut weapons?
mild ginkgo
makarov, not glock
opal plover
pump action akimbos?
crisp lion
Makarovs
Yes and you call them makarovs, despite the fact they were clearly Glocks
prisma halo
there was no akimbo pump action
prisma halo
only the 1887s had akimbo
opal plover
It's regional dialect
prisma halo
David himself calls them Makarovs in the very first Dusk video
mild ginkgo
and they still all, for all intents and purposes
prisma halo
oh guys, we forgot the hammer lol
mild ginkgo
very clearly
crisp lion
I'm well aware of that, but I played the leaked Pre-alpha demos, and the models are clearly Glocks.
toxic wadi
🤔
mild ginkgo
opal plover
Yeah
mild ginkgo
i cant say for sure what the original pump shotty is based on though
prisma halo
M16
Dark Claw
Shotgun
Pump-Action SSG
Amulet/Totem
Chainsaw
Makarov
Dual Makarov
Hammer
Dual Hammer (? implied by code)
Buzzsaw
that's all I can think of
sly path
I do admit I'm mainly talking about the current shotty.
Haven't seen much of the classic stuff.
prisma halo
the current shotgun is a 1887
sly path
Ah.
sly path
Pretty much.
There aren't many Lever action shotgun designs so the 1887/1901 are the most iconic designs.
opal plover
Wish the dusk version had this sexy curve😫 👌
prisma halo
"I like my guns curvy"
crisp lion
you see the Makarov has a rounded back, and an exposed hammer, the Glock has a Square back, and the hammer isn't exposed