Primer for using oil paint

[upper fossil]

TLDR: I know a guy like Wappel mostly used grey primer, but would it be ok to use just black?

I've had a project crap out on me where I used a combination of different primers inks and varnish, before going to the oils. It's been several months, and it's still not completly dry. It's not wet, but when I touch places that are painted with lighter colors the color just comes off, like thick dry-ish oil paint. It's mostly the Gamblin Radients as far as I can see. LIke Radient green, that I used a lot for that project.

So I talked to Wappel about it, just asking on his stream one day, and he suggested it was due to my weird mix of all sorts of different primers, inks and varnish. I've mostly used AK primers but on that project I also used some Vallejo. I've seen a lot of videos of Marco Frisoni using inks and stuff with varnish over and then some oil washes and stuff. Perhaps it was due to me mostly using unthinned oil paints on top. I don't know. It threw me a bit off, so I've had long time without painting, but now I want to go again.

I've been recommended to go with Stynelrez, but since I can't get that in Denmark as far as I know, a lot of people have mentioned that Mig Ammo should be the same thing. That I can get, but since I don't have it right now I'm considering trying out the black AK primer that I have. I used to go with grey like Wappel, as it's also a bit easier to see the details, but the way I did it was using a mix of black and white AK primer. I do still have the white, but looking at it today, it does look a bit sketchy and not like something you'd want to use for priming. Not sure if it's gone bad. I'm pretty sure I used it on the last project that is still just sitting in my display closet drying (I do hope it will end up being really dry at some point).

I've gotten really careful with the primer after talking to Wappel, so I'm still waiting for the weather to get a bit hotter, so I can finally order myself some Mig Ammo primer.

It's kinda yellow in the top. It almost feels like the paint has separated. It's really fluid in the top and the bottom feels super thick.

[lavish garden]

I’d say yes you can just use black, but be mindful that a lot of pure pigment oils can be fairly transparent when doing very thin layers so you’d need to work out how you handle that over black

[quartz wigeon]

I'm surprised the primers can interact with one another, but then what do I know? 🙂 I would make sure to wash the mini before priming, and I would make sure to let the thing dry a good bit before going with the next product.
I have no experience with oils though.

[upper fossil]

I'm a bit surprised as well. My only suspecion is that it has something to do with the primer. What else could it be? I guess the plastic the models are made of could have some influence on it, but I would suspect that it's mostly the primer, the ink or the varnish. As far as I can remember, I gave every layer some time to dry before going with the next one

[upper fossil]

yes I know, but actually didn't think about it before you mentioned it. It might just make sense to try and wait for a bit warmer weather before ordering some primer, and just accept that I can't really paint using the oils until then 🙂

I actually thought you could more or less use anything for primer, but that acrylic primer would be better to paint on than just, say a white or grey regulair acrylic paint. But after the trouble I've been through with the terrain that is not yet dry after several months, I'm getting a bit superstitious/careful. I'm really surprised in a bad way that it has not yet dried completely. Makes me a bit anxious in regards to the oil paints that I used, if they were ok and all.

[stray osprey]

What are you thinning with? That's the most common thing to destroy primers. Mostly among germans but you've got a border so maybe you bought the lemon spirits too.

You can totally start from black, but I think starting with what amounts to a complementary grey(pick 2 complementary radiants and mix them) and basically drybrushing the whole model like a zenithal is my first step that way. This allows any transparent paints you like to get a bit of opacity during the next stage where you block in colors.

[upper fossil]

I am using this, which is a Danish product. It's just odorless mineral spirit. It's basically the same as sansodor from Winsor and Newton or the similar stuff from Gamblin. They also have the exact same smell, and I had one of the regulars, @summer raptor, from the channel check the chemistry. It also has the same greasy feel to it as the other brands I mentioned, so I do believe in the product hehe. Don't be fooled by the label saying "Terpentin", that's the Danish name for all those different products. I think there might be 10 different types of turpentine, all with extra stuff in the name 🙂

[upper fossil]

Others have mentioned this in this post, and I also came to the same conclusion. Lots of the stuff I use is transparent or semi transparent oils. I also do what you describe here very often, and that's exactly how I painted the terrain that, unfortunately have not yet dried. It was a mix of different primers like I explained in the OP, but might as well just have been a grey, as none of the zenital priming work I did was actually visible after painting.... lesson learned 🙂

After that I did a pre-glaze using W&N Mars Black and W&N Perylene Black and probably some mineral spirits mixed into the paint here, if I recall correctly. After letting it set, I wiped most off using makeup sponges, and did a mix of Radiant Green + Radiant Violet for a nice greenish grey that I then "drybrushed" all over the terrain pieces, using no mineral spirit at all, as I often find this works really well to set a starting point. Most of the terrain were pretty much done almost at this point, but did a few extra touch ups and highlights.

I must also say @stray osprey that I do love this way of painting! It just looks amazing for almost no effort. I've been put off a bit by my misfortune here, but I really think it's due to some problem with the primer. That's what I'm hoping also. I've been a bit worried that it might have been my oils paints that have gone bad. I just can't imagine that would be the case, but can't help but worry a bit still 😦

[stray osprey]

Ok if you really trust them but the lemon yellow on green scheme is giving me flashbacks 😂
The radiants, and I think most titanium white based paints can easily take 2 weeks to dry if you went too heavy on them in application. Which is just incredibly easy to do even if you feel like there's not much paint on the brush. It's just shocking how little paint you really need. I don't worry about this too much generally, but 2+ weeks is a little strange.

Where are you storing the mini to dry? If it's in too cold a place the paint won't cure. You can preserve your palette forever this way by putting it in the freezer.

[upper fossil]

Hehe 😄 It's from a chemistry factory called Borup, which is probably the oldest in Denmark, going way back to the early 1900's. It's a quality product and it doesn't mention anything about lemon, but I think I've seen a lemon fernis somewhere, which is somewhat of a similar product I think.

Yes I know they can take some time. I've often had blobs of the Radiants still have fresh paint underneath the "skin" when cleaning the palette after some time. I actually cleaned the palette the other day, and some of a blob of the Radient Green was still a bit wet underneath when I peeled if off using a knife. I was a bit surprised, but I suppose it's not uncommon. I don't know. Haven't thought too much about drying times before, as this has never been a problem before. It's usually dry within a week.

These pictures are from when they were just painted on the 21st of January.

Since then they have been sitting in my closet for gaming models. I suppose I could take them out in the middle of the room, but I doubt that would help. They have been in normal room temperature all the time, so ~ 20 - 22 degrees Celcius.

[stray osprey]

The increased airflow might help actually.

But yeah that sounds like it should be fine to me. Strange.

[upper fossil]

I'll put them out and see if it makes a difference. Thx. You think I can calm down regarding if the paint is still good?

[stray osprey]

Yeah, I guess just keep a note of the colors and see if the trend continues.

[upper fossil]

I pretty much know what colors it is. It makes no sense in my head if there actually is a problem with those colors, as they have been good to me in the past, and are pretty new. I've only used them a couple of times since I bought them like 6 months ago.

[lavish garden]

I can tell you that vallejo primer, liquitex inks, and vallejo mecha varnish have given me no issues under or over oils

In case you wanted to try to absolutely rule other things out