Remove Bound Blocking

[cyan sparrow]

I can't see a reason for the implementation of bound blocking. Everything screams to benefit the binding system over directional to the point that getting to high skill pvp, you either need to learn chamber blocking, or use hotkeys.

I think we'd see more clumsy duels and fights vs everyone turning into block champions. I personally always feel more rewarded when I block parry etc using directional, but it can be frustrating when you get finessed by watching someone switch their block direction in .2 of a second because they smash their keys like a Mortal Kombat beginner.

Hits that should be landing due to failed reaction time need to be more devastating and currently it just rewards players who spam bound key directional block. Potentially adding a significant increase to stam usage for using the binding system is the solution.

[magic canopy]

Having both keybindings and mouse movement is the biggest design issue with the combat indeed.

[molten juniper]

You can’t take out keybinds it’s been a thing in gv for too long

[cyan sparrow]

Then don't take it out, but make it use stam to block directionally. Too much of a gap from someone pressing a button and someone moving their camera to block

Literally watching someone do this to their keyboard and getting a block in -

https://tenor.com/view/cat-crazy-cat-keyboard-cat-fast-gif-5753018

Needs to drain your stam.

[molten juniper]

It does exactly the same as when you do it with mouse

[cyan sparrow]

Nah, I can block twice as fast with key bind then left right up down etc. You have to move your mouse in the proper direction. I now just hit middle mouse to block

That or make the persistent block system where if you switch sides it doesn't get a perfect block and not automatically a perfect block when you switch

Essentially the reward is too great for mapping users

[molten juniper]

Honestly I think the game dies if you remove keybinds the mouse control is not good and never has been

It is technically better than keybinds on the high end but it’s jank

[cyan sparrow]

Chiv hasn't died

Warband didn't die for years.

Tigerknight did die lol but that was for other reasons

[molten juniper]

None of them had full keybinds for their entire life and then tried to suddenly remove it

[magic canopy]

Yes you can. The veteran player base is so tiny it does not matter if you anger them slightly if the overall game improves because of it.

[main gate]

Oh buddy, youre gonna really upset the 40 sweats in here collectively trying to cry the game into what suits them best.

But if you think the bind blocking is a problem, wait till you hear about the scripts and block assists some of the "veterans" use.

[magic canopy]

Keybindings completely undermine the whole gameplay loop and the essence of directional combat. The mouse movement is supposed to make you fumble your blocks to opponents’ feints as an example. And mouse movements creates a progressive skill level in the gameplay just like training any other athletic skill. All of that is lost because of keybindings.

[magic canopy]

Hah it's a bit silly when vets "threaten" with leaving if keybindings or indicators are removed (or any other change to combat for that matter that makes it higher skill ceiling) as if the couple hundred old timey players are enough to sustain the game in the first place.

[molten juniper]

Have you ever played keybinds @magic canopy

[magic canopy]

Sure, before when the mouse movement were more jank and less accurate I bound some keys reluctantly.

But I would say I've 90% played without it

[molten juniper]

It’s not like binding your blocks is somehow magically easier yeah you don’t have to do the mouse movement but you have two additional keys you have to press and that’s assuming you don’t bind attacks it’s like playing piano

[magic canopy]

I get that. Keybindings are objectively more accurate and faster than mouse movement for obvious reasons but they don't trivialize the combat completely. I'd agree to that sure. They do however 1, make the game fundamentally unbalanced compared to it's default control schema - the mouse. 2. Drive the balancing of the gameplay in the wrong direction. Thanks to keybindings they introduced feint delay, aggressive kicks due to how easy it is to block (and slow feints as stated earlier). Keybindings have hurt the game in many non obvious ways.

Consider this example: people complain about how kicks are pretty much useless now. Let's ignore their usage against shields and hear me out. If feints were allowed to be faster and there were no keybindings and there was a fourth block direction and no indicators were removed would kick even be needed that much in order to win? No it would not because getting a hit in would be substantially easier

Keybindings and other negative aspects of the combat design have warped how the gameplay have evolved in a very bad way

[molten juniper]

All you would do is buff spears to the moon adding a forth block direction and kick is bad because it’s slow and you can’t turn basically at all with it anymore

I know gv having three block directions irks a lot or people but can you imagine gv honestly with four? You would be getting stabbed none stop through people as some guy with a halberd spams overheads it would make the game so much worse you just can’t have four directions as long as you can swing through teammates

[magic canopy]

I don't see how this can't be balanced in other ways like lowering spear damage or whatever. It seems silly to degrade the whole gameplay loop for one weapon's sake.

[molten juniper]

Even if you lower it to nothing it’s still a problem you’re still getting interrupted every stab

[magic canopy]

Then remove swinging through team mates. Why is that even a thing

[molten juniper]

Then suggest an entire combat rework doing one piece makes the whole game break

[magic canopy]

Well to be fair I have done this before back on the old discord.

[molten juniper]

It can’t be wise asking unproven devs on a project they can’t possibly have full understanding for major reworks of core systems

Screams of a disaster waiting to happen

[magic canopy]

Well I think major reworks are not only viable but actually critical to the survival of the game. The playerbase for these kind of games are mostly people who like directional combat games already. And those people prioritise good combat and as long as the combat is sub par compared to similar games GV won't be able to attract these players in the first place

[molten juniper]

Maybe we stop trying to pretend gv is chiv or m&b or w/e and commit to being gv

[magic canopy]

GV was officially advertised as Warband but MMO was it not? It doesn't need to be a replica ofc but the expectation is that the game has an exciting combat system in a multiplayer setting no?

[molten juniper]

I like the combat system it needs some work and a lot of polish maybe one or two more mechanics to spice it up but it’s solid at its core

[cyan sparrow]

Its 100 percent easier lol. You know how quickly I can hit those two keys in comparison to potentially jerking the mouse in the wrong direction. Example being walking backwards and trying to block three or four players. It's so much easier to perfect block with key bind as it removes the skill of directional blocking

Maybe we stop pretending the love for key bound directional blocking is due to skill issues without it

[molten juniper]

play keybinds then its not some magic secret to make you a god

the entire reason i play keybinds is because the mouse movement was so awful when i started you would pull right and your guy would left block all the the time and its not like i was unfamiliar with mouse combat i had 6k hrs in warband before i started gv

[cyan sparrow]

Turned on key binds I can now block enemies thoughts before they think them

Literally turned it on today just to compete against the cheese

[trail yarrow]

Devs should stop letting people post suggestions.

[cyan sparrow]

That's how you actually kill a game lol. People are passionate about their content and their game. It plays back to wanting harder content. Provided different solutions but the reality is wanting to be cheese lords ( new butter lords of King Harlaus style)

To each is there own. The closer to macros the faster people can bot the macros then you have people hitting no buttons.

Setup a hit scan script that ties in.

[night halo]

if you remove keybinds suddenly half the vets will fight like greenleafs. they will never approve of this xD

[still silo]

It’s a fundamental aspect of the game. This is like asking Counter Strike to remove the crosshair

“it can be frustrating when you get finessed by watching someone switch their block direction in .2 of a second because they smash their keys like a Mortal Kombat beginner”

This invalidates anything you say

[magic canopy]

No it isn't. Mouse movement is a fundamental aspect of the game. It's the default controls of the game, not keybindings. In fact, keybindings are just the non-standard, alternative control schema and could be axed.

It might be fundamental to some old timey vets of this game but that's rather unimportant actually since this game needs to recruit far more new players then there ever were vets if it wants to survive.

[lavish swift]

More bad faith arguments on keybinds Dirty? Talking as if keybinds affect player retention is a new wild one from you.

[magic canopy]

How on earth is this a bad faith argument man? As I've explained several times before to you, keybindings are unfair and they have also affected the design of the combat overall and yes I think it affects player retention. It's hardly new for me to state this. The one arguing in bad faith is you since we both know we've had these discussions before and your response to me here is full of snark.

[cyan sparrow]

The copium is wild.

https://tenor.com/view/asian-crying-drinking-gaming-gif-3250811401690734589

[magic canopy]

Toastz is on your/our side.

[cyan sparrow]

I know I'm saying the copium in this chat

[magic canopy]

Right. Agreed. Skroth and me has beef from before in the prior discord and he consistently snipes at me across threads unfortunately

[cyan sparrow]

This is the same concept from eso on light weaving. It was an unfair tactic (I even used it) but it was something that abused a function that exists and led to vet stomping new players.

This same method is a non-skillful way to utilize a function that removes a skill balance where you actually have to get good at the combat. Sure, I can just map, but I still say the solution is make it either when you block it chews through stamina for changing direction so you cannot spam it.

Or secondly, make it where perfect block is not applied instantly.

[lavish swift]

There is no beef. Just this is a bad suggestion and it is made in bad faith because you always make it out as a drastic / dire issue that somehow affects player retention when its not even an issue.

[still silo]

Keybinds are not unfair; 1) the skill ceiling is the same if you directional block or keybind and 2) everyone can use them.

It’s just an arbitrary suggestion from someone who can’t fight and has made up an imaginary reason they lose instead of practicing and getting better

[cyan sparrow]

Nope I block and kill using directional. I just try not to give into the easy lane.

[magic canopy]

Come on man, you don’t need to outright lie, it makes you sound ridiculous and honestly like you think you would suck without them. Keybindings are superior to mouse movement in accuracy and latency and that’s why they’re used. I dislike keybindings because of balance issues and design decisions it forces upon the combat. FYI I was pretty good at this game, not that I matters though. You however sound very fearful of losing keybindings.

It’s a strange pattern I’ve noticed; defenders of keybindings generally argue in very dishonest ways. Usually accusing others of being bad which is ironic since keybindings are the easier way to play.

[magic canopy]

Me thinking it’s an issue and you’re thinking it’s not is just two differing honest opinions. Nothing bad faith about it. You assert I’m arguing in bad faith just because I don’t agree with you essentially. That’s a very egocentric view of the world isn’t it?

[still silo]

I have 1.8k hours practicing blocking with keybinds and attacks with directional, of course I’d suck. In the same way someone with over a thousand hours of directional blocking would suck if they had to switch to keybinds. It’s purely preference and practice time and it’s wild to suggest removing something that a majority of players use, that inherently has no effect on skill ceiling

[molten juniper]

ive never seen one of these "Keybinds are op" guys swap to keybinds, if it was actually op everyone would swap to keybinds

most people run center block and stab/overhead thats a majority of the community runs something like that full mouse or full keybind is not that common

[magic canopy]

You're contradicting yourself here. First you state people would switch to keybinds if they're op and then you state that >most< people use keybindnings for center block and stab/overhead. Why is that? Because it's inherently superior

[molten juniper]

no i said if it was op everyone would play full keybinds but in reality most people play partial in each which is a good indication that neither is op or why would you learn half of two systems

[cyan sparrow]

Switched to keybinds - literally can block with my eyes closed

Actually did it as a meme one time when they introduced this system of blocking

[magic canopy]

It's not purely preference is it. It's much faster to use keybindings, we're probably talking hundreds of milliseconds faster which is an enormous difference. The accuracy is 100% using keybindings. You can move in the opposite direction of an attack with keybindings. I could go on. It's not just a preference and I think you're smart enough to know that.

[still silo]

Cap

[cyan sparrow]

I'll do it again

next test

[still silo]

Let’s duel, show me

[cyan sparrow]

You on aquilla 1?

[still silo]

Yep

[cyan sparrow]

Bet

I'll duel first without it on

To show the difference of how easy it is

[magic canopy]

Most people can't be bothered to min-max every setting due to laziness or because they enjoy mouse movement more and just want the most bang for your buck keybindings with minimal gameplay impact. All people are not slaves to optimization. That doesn't take away from the fact that it's unbalanced.

[molten juniper]

thats exactly what everyone does in competative games

find me a competative game where the meta isnt to just do whatever is statistically the best lol

[magic canopy]

No that's not true at all. Most people do not in fact min max, not even in hypercompetitive games like cs go.

[magic canopy]

All of them.

[molten juniper]

every good player does

[cyan sparrow]

even better got a chance to duel someone lemme post with keybinding setup.

[magic canopy]

Okay so pretty much all best players try to be as efficient as possible. That is true. However most people are not in the category of being the best players and balance still matters for them

[cyan sparrow]

gimmie two minutes to turn this into a masterpice

[magic canopy]

Do you honestly think that the majority of cs go players play with a 280hz screen, all graphical effects off, lightspeed logitech mouse, 24" screen to minimize peripheral vision, low sensitivity setting for the mouse etc. No. The majority of players do none of these things okay. But game balance still matters dude.

[cyan sparrow]

Trying to find quality audio that fits the memeage.

Video rendering

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIbPGbMI7Ms

[gray cave]

nice! i think the only thing we got out of that is you can't tell a midlander from an Ismirian apart, and that you're bad enough at the game where you need to attack other players Ability to enjoy themselves lmfao A+

[cyan sparrow]

Is that not an ismir?

https://tenor.com/view/biden-blink-blinking-gif-18903183

[gray cave]

is that the one in the video?

[cyan sparrow]

Nope - but probably should read up

Random Sangmar

[pine acorn]

random marble

[gray cave]

already did, i can imagine why we didnt get a follow up on how that duel went lol

had to go with a zindelian instead haha

[cyan sparrow]

Nah I can go duel him also.

I just grabbed some random dude out in loot zone.

Doesn't change the outcome of how much faster I block

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ-TUFv-b6I

you can skip to the three minute mark also - OG Scars defense.

Directional blocking

It is possible to do decent with it But yeah I died a SHITE ton before I got even semi decent with it.

[snow pasture]

Just get good lol I use both binds and the mouse 🐁 might aswell remove revive binding for medics!

[cyan sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/dexter-idk-gif-4373655489512434337

[still silo]

Why are you posting a duel with a random new player? What is happening lmao

[cyan sparrow]

I'd just be happy if you guys just admitted you can't use directional and why you die on the hill

[gray cave]

you would die a ton learning either form either way lol thats a part of the game, you think we arent dying out here haha

it sounds like youre dying on hills man and thats whats got you upset. hundreds of noobs use directional and keybinds and theyre still dropping like flies becasue of their skill level, as god intended

[cyan sparrow]

Nope, the hill I'm dying on is showing how easy it is to block and stomp out but again if it was removed I'm sure you'd quit

[gray cave]

3k hours buddy, im here to stay regardless. but it is a nice feature to have concidering all the other games that don't have it, are dead

[cyan sparrow]

Scroll back up talked about that already also

[gray cave]

ya you used the worst directional game as an example, people do not play bannerlord for the fun combat, they play for the armies

[cyan sparrow]

Warband > pvp didn't have armies.

Bannerlord does

[gray cave]

however last oasis honestly had a good feel with their directional ill give them that, but it is also dead

[cyan sparrow]

as I'm not going to re-hash the exact same arguement

I'll close with this

[gray cave]

if not setting keybinds is something you need to feel good about yourself, by all means man do it, thats all on you, and to be honest, i think the character model looks better doing directional attacks, its way easier to fake someone out, where i look like a stiff board

https://tenor.com/view/dark-souls-git-gud-gif-16530511115199627055

so i will close with this

[cyan sparrow]

Don't disrespect the warrior of sunlight like that. He actually is good

Probably carried you through Darksouls

[gray cave]

considering he's only in like 3 of the many boss fights you get, no not really lol first he's anti keyboards, now he's anti summons. lets remove bandages next

[spare cape]

sure you can. people either adapt or they dont.

that's not anyone else's problem but their own

[spare cape]

lets meet in the middle and remove archers

[cyan sparrow]

I forget we gotta keep pvp simple or people get rolled by skill

[gray cave]

noone even knows who you are lol is the skill in the room with us?

[gray cave]

im not even sure what that means lol Ismir has like 3 archers

[spare cape]

now do Sangmar lol

[gray cave]

57?

[cyan sparrow]

Sorry lemme dumb it down for ya

https://tenor.com/view/brainlet-brainlet-bike-ding-ding-ding-gif-20767472

[balmy hazel]

You better take a shield or bow or bind blocks.

[cedar nexus]

I have played quite a few arenas recently ... keybinds are just superior
They are faster, less error prone and allow more apm

... it's quite weird watching 2 arena champs battle it out in the same place for 3 mins because both have hands only for keybinds 😁

+keybinds allow full chamberblocking, which idk if it is even possible on mouse

[brittle pecan]

keybinds are slower then mouse control

they could increase the delay.

[violet wadi]

All the best players I know play directional block. Key bind block raises the skill floor which helps retention.

[brittle pecan]

@severe hearth plays with mouse and same thing with doom

both are nasty in the arena.

[severe hearth]

Blocking in gv isnt that hard, even with a mouse. Its more demanding but manageable with practice. The real issue right now is server performance; it sometimes messes with your inputs and makes mouse play feel inconsistent.

however I 100% support Dirty. He s our mouse-chad freedom fighter

btw. Mape and Carlos are also mouse players as far as I know and at least Mape is better than 99.9% of all gv keybind nubs

[cyan sparrow]

Mouse directional for life.

[magic canopy]

I don't think it's the server, the direction should be calculated client side. I think I've "solved" or at least understood the issue and I posted a bug report about mouse movement that describes how you can replicate the issue and read about a proposed fix https://discord.com/channels/235484117616033792/1498359070724329523 Also thanks for the support man.

Would love upvotes on the bug report. it's a major issue, one of the most critical one's imo.

[cyan sparrow]

I tried to be constructive in my initial feedback, I just also internally have a love for the communities toxic side. Gives me conquerors blade playerbase flashbacks.

[cyan sparrow]

Donesky

[silk wharf]

with kick being how it is and with binds it dose make 1v1 a stalemate somthing for 1v1 at the very least should be done

[severe hearth]

Kicks like in Bannerlord would be cool.

[glacial shard]

It's crazy how people just want to grief how other people play for no reason. Even if they did OP still will be bad at game 😂.

[night halo]

Keybinds used to have a delay in them to make them balanced in combat vs mouse players. I'm not sure if it's still in the game or not but it's defiantly been reduced some how. @nova holly probably knows more about it

[magic canopy]

I’m pretty sure the delay got removed if I remember my discussion with Jog correctly. Funny how keybindings are the only controls that get improved lol

Keybind welfare is out of control

[glacial shard]

So many mad cause badders in this thread

😂

[night halo]

^^my first comment on this thread xD

[glacial shard]

most would just quit and find a new game to play 😂

[nova holly]

Its okay if they need to get an advantage to get closer to my skill level

[night halo]

Well to be fair we still can't re-keybind 1-9 on the only "action bar" we have

[magic canopy]

Why do you flagrantly lie? Do you not feel shame behaving like that? No one is griefing except you right now. Various motivations behind removing keybindings have been stated in this thread but you've ignored them in bad faith. Furthermore, mouse movement is a more difficult playstyle than using keybindings so accusing people of mad = bad when you're the one playing on easy mode is quite ironic. It is you who need crutches and lashes out when people try to deny you them.

[magic canopy]

I'm sure you would quit if you'd be forced to play something that requires mechanical skill.

[night halo]

The grief is so bad and weak I barely noticed it. Like an annoying little mosquito that ain't even worth your time swatting xD

[real lake]

remove keybinds, remove attack indicators, make combat faster and change the name of the game to Warband Victis

[brittle pecan]

decrease max server to 200

no desync fixo 😄

[molten juniper]

Until desync is fixed entirely I would prefer they don’t mess with keybinds indicators swinging through people etc it’s a recipe for disaster

[cyan sparrow]

Talking my language right here

[cyan sparrow]

The video I posted alone shows there is no delay lol

I absolutely love the blind defense of the skill removal mechanic. Yall shall be known as the keybind baby warriors 🫡

It removes human error and input.

If I can perfect strike and block with the combo at that point it's just timing my click. Example perfect chamber is about .5 to 1 second to register and respond for perfect chamber. If I don't have to calculate in my mind direction of camera, how long to hold my swing and watch the indicator. Instead just hit mouse button 3 or 4 and it perfectly calculates that time EVERY time. That isn't a skill. That's letting a computer do the heavy lifting for you.

So I respect my fellow directional combat players. Keep on throwing hands like warriors.

[still silo]

https://klipy.com/gifs/tom-senya-2--k01KQG9G6QS8RXCS3P47Z5WA74Q

[glacial shard]

Its impresssive how passionate people are on things that don't effect how they play remotely 😂

[night halo]

Being able to use keybinds to gain a combat advantage over other players who use mouse affects everyone buddy.

[molten juniper]

somehow its a hot take but it does need to be said a player that is better than you on key binds is still going to be better than you on mouse the only thing you accomplish by removing key binds is you force every user to relearn the game or quit give it a few months and the ones that stay will still be better than you

[night halo]

Naw sorry I don't agree with this I know plenty of players who are much worse on mouse than keyboard. But I don't know anyone where it's the other way around.

But I don't think keybinds need removing. We just need the delay added back or something similar

[molten juniper]

well every bound player first played mouse so that direction is fine and i know a top player that went from full keybinds to mouse and was pretty much exactly the same player Experience > Opinion

its not keybinds or fast mouse skills that make people top players its largely timing and footwork related

[silk sigil]

Here is my hot take; Keybinds are 100% accurate. Mouse movement is not. Remove mouse movement.

Same as shield bash sharing functions, mouse movement shares functions. End of the story is it creates similar problems.

[severe hearth]

Even Grok says keybund users are total nubfaqs

[night halo]

That's true movement is king but it's way easier to master movement when u don't have to worry about camera control at the same time as directional swinging with the mouse

Maybe that's a bad take but everyone I've ever played gv with (and that's alpt of ppl) have had the general consensus that keybinding blocks is easier and more responsive than mouse blocking.

I think if response times were similar like they used to be between the two different types of inputs people wouldn't care so much

[nova holly]

Especially when GV turns you into a snail for accidentally turning 5 degrees too much too fast

Id have less trouble with mouse if i didn't become regarded the moment i turn a little too fast

[pine slate]

Options for input are always good, they provide accessibility and improve comfort by giving you more ways to make your intent happen in-game the way you want to.

If there are measurable advantages, they should measured and balanced properly, but entire input options should not be removed.

As a keybind user, I agree there are advantages especially around camera movement, keybinds make the camera independent from combat actions.
Maybe this should be balanced for mouse users better.

Generally I think mouse users should have more customization options for input such as customizable direction angles, click>drag option, locking certain directions (for combining with some keybinds), etc.

[cyan sparrow]

Why I provided multiple solutions instead of one - But people on that whiney energy.

Since the input is faster, instant and rewards a perfect swing block - remove perfect swing, set it to where if you've blocked with input within time window, it can't be another perfect block in a opposite direction.

I think the ultimate solution is to get rid of it. Because this again opens the window for hit detection manipulation and development of bot-macros.

I don't know how strong GV's anti-cheat is, or if there is one at all

I even stated, adding a stamina mechanic to blocking would be a far better solution than fully removing it. Because again, it just rewards mindless blocking.

I'm alright if bound swing was green at max / same with blocking green block also. Forgot the multiplayer game because its been ages. But they had a similar system where you could use keybound blocking but directional was more rewarding

[brittle pecan]

it's in the title.

also people would be using macros and it's going to screw over disabled players 😄

[cyan sparrow]

Why I always suggest reading. Its a crazy mechanic and dlc removed for those without eyes

[night halo]

Honestly in the past devs have been pretty good at detecting hacks and exploits but it usually took them a month minimum to fix or deal with it.

[molten juniper]

they already added a stamina mechanic to block i dont think a third bar to watch is a good idea

[cyan sparrow]

Just put the stamina mechanic on the front end of blocking instead of on the actual block

just changing where its applied at.

You spam your block? You die.

[molten juniper]

would that not make the jedi spam feinters instantly the best players in the game

[nova holly]

Yeah this is a bad idea

[violet wadi]

I've seen only god tier players like imsleep run out of 2 hander block resistance and guess what... He uses directional to block

[brittle pecan]

i understand having it and hate it.

Like there a point in the game where two players going to end up fighting for ever because both of them are matched skill level

[still silo]

That has nothing to do with whether or not someone uses keybinds or directional though. The skill ceiling is the same

[violet wadi]

The skill ceiling is higher for directional and bound blocks raises the game's skill floor

You will find an even greater volume of noob stomping if they removed bound blocks

[trail yarrow]

Let people do what they want with controls. Who cares

[severe hearth]

the ping comp is just too hard with this game. after playing bannerlord/warband for few hrs gv feels like diving into deep water...its slow motion directional combat

remove it

[hot prism]

think thats less to do w blocking being binded and more to do w directional indicators lol

[violet wadi]

Whenever I duel a green leaf I perform the overhead test where I circle them and spam overheads. If they die twice really fast I tell them to bind center block

[hot prism]

to be fair thats also just this game not having the smoothest blocking, never had issues w mouse blocking in M&B, Last Oasis or even MO2

upblock here is so inconsistent

[silk sigil]

wut? Last Oasis is too loose, if u play it fast it puts the wrong action for the same exact input more than GV; i know because i put a series of input on a loop and ran it, recorded it doing incorrect actions during the cycles, and passed it to the devs. he said there is some 'wonkyness' ...

[hot prism]

if its "fluid blocking" and you dont lock your blocks then yeah, but most people lock their blocks in LO or use non-fluid. Trust me its pretty smooth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chR7G6no7e0

[silk sigil]

oh no, no, im not talking about the smooth block; being able to roll the block around is nice if you cant throw the correct block, what i am talking about is playing using a series of quick, successive actions; the game frequently produces unintended results; even when the INPUT is always EXACTLY the same.

[hot prism]

gotcha, maybe its that I have muscle memory for LO and not that for GV yet then

ngl id rather use mouse to get middle blocks, just never felt consistent for me here vs those other ones

[silk sigil]

that vid was on point man, nice

[silk sigil]

LOL, u know what i found from most LO players though, is they accept the gaslight, they go for a side and throw over head, or the wrong block throws, and they think 'that must be what i really did'; so smooth block is probably best workaround that 'wonkyness'.
Real talk, the very last block in that vid; u threw overhead in response to a side indicator... Did you really though...?

[hot prism]

I dont really use the indicators tbh in LO, that last one I hit the dude I chambered and the game doesnt really let you block for a ms when you hit someone, so I kind of had to eat that overhead there

[silk sigil]

u do two blocks at the very end, i mean the last block u input.

[cyan sparrow]

That directional blocking skill was fire and I loved every moment of it

[nova holly]

Never had any issues in LO personally, it doesn't have the wonkyness M&B does

[cyan sparrow]

Warband or bannerlord. Bannerlord jank is real

[nova holly]

They both have the same input nuances, where you kinda have to click then drag, or just tap really fast or it'll change direction

LO just sends whatever you give it unless you have fluid block

[cyan sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldgrhXQFxWY

Keybound blocking just diff

I posted all my evidence over the days I'll let it go, but current solution isn't it

[magic canopy]

So many mouse movement chads rising up and joining the fight. Glorious to witness.

[balmy hazel]

You would better buy Sony PlayStation, unbox it, switch on and press "X" to win! You will cope with it, we believe in you, man!

[nova holly]

Keybind players trying to save their ego smh my head

[cyan sparrow]

This is a standard. He isn't the first, he isn't the last. Bro probably plays cod campaign on easy because the bots are too hard

[nova holly]

Im like halfway joking

I just like bullying them a bit

[severe hearth]

keybinds are more reliable because they reduce interpretation on both the systems and the players side. the skill ceiling is only equal on paper, assuming perfect execution with zero mistakes. in reality thats impossible. mouse input can vary (for example: slightly left, too far left, angled left), whereas a keybind input is always perfectly precise. even a for example perfectly executed left input can still be misread by the system. you will on the other side never experience a central block if you press the left-button

[fathom gull]

He is a really good players, I think its not the point to compare top few % players (in terms of fighting skill) to majority and make adjustments to be able to meet their same skilllevel.

[severe hearth]

honestly I dont understand why ppl are still debating whether keybinds have advantages over mouse input in the age of google and ai. neither google nor ai would ever claim that mouse input is on par with or superior to keybinds. these discussions only work if you completely ignore facts. sure let keybind users keep their keybinds but stop sugarcoating

[fathom gull]

That’s true, but keybinds make the game more accessible for the "average player." What I mean is that this group of players is much larger—and would be the one most affected if keybinds were removed. After the first week of this open beta, I switched to using the mouse for attacking and blocking. I enjoy it, but I’m just as good—or, let's say, just as bad—with both methods. 🙂

[cyan sparrow]

Its literally the point. Is that its playing on easy mode.

People argue to just argue

People make excuses when I post an actual example, people make excuses when I post a video of SOMEONE using keybind, people make excuses more times than taking accountibility lol

[brittle pecan]

look you can add a slower speed for the block to start but you're not removing it.

this argument of saying remove is pretty pointless

suggestions to improve the mouse system is another but yea that another nightmare when you have people saying it should be like LO or BnL

[real lake]

they removed the 50ms delay from keybinds?

[nova holly]

Guys its okay we will just keep bullying keybinders

[nova holly]

Idk if they did, but if they did, it was probably for ping comp so you wouldnt feel super laggy.

[brittle pecan]

i noticed if i use my right click to clock with a wolf it will block but if i use a keybind 😄

it hits me

[severe hearth]

cheap bait

but to be honest there is no point in making the keybind experience worse. adding a delay is just stupid. if you implement keybinds then make it fun to use. there is no point in making both sides "suffer". you want to improve the experience for both

[brittle pecan]

i wasn't bait just wolf attack fast so when i use a full swing i would use my keybind centre block and not my mouse block.

keybind lets an attack tho while mouse wouldn't

[severe hearth]

not true u baiting

[brittle pecan]

try it 😄

so there could be delay 😐

[glacial shard]

Starting to think that Dirty and MortalFolly are the same person

[magic canopy]

Our posts look nothing alike.

[magic canopy]

They did.

[cyan sparrow]

Dirty hasn't really bad mouthed anyone in any posts vs me who would say the single braincell you got is working overtime if you think that.

[glacial shard]

It's wild that there are people like @cyan sparrow and @magic canopy who want to abolish keybinds for bizarro reasons even though all there arguments are nullified by the fact that the best players in the game have been a mix of keybinds + directional. Just really sad that @magic canopy and @cyan sparrow are on a crusade to try and ruin the fun for a ton of people because they cant handle being mad cause bad

[cyan sparrow]

I give you your baby bottle now go to sleep and let the adults talk

[pine slate]

If the difference is that binds have certainty, give mouse users more customization options so that they can tailor the input to themselves and reduce incorrect inputs.

I'm repeating this but things like customizable direction angles, click>drag option, locking certain directions for better compatibility with binds.
Although customizable direction angles would probably help a lot of people already.

Games are the most fun when the user's intent gets translated into the game correctly, that's what an input system is supposed to do.

[pine slate]

Made a seperate post for it https://discord.com/channels/235484117616033792/1500775725756579850

[cedar nexus]

There is also the issue, that keyboard just allows more APM than mouse
(... and also lower error rate)

I have had some duels where the attack indicator did not match the animations after the oponent switched attack direction way too quickly

[lapis dragon]

I'm a new player coming from Warband and I would love this, but, this is not Warband , its slower, clumsier, and honestly, way way inferior to Warband attack/block/parry system. And in a duel the kick mechanic makes spamming defense a really really bad choice.

[nova holly]

Kicks being an issue is just a part of being new.
They quickly become almost inconsequential.

[magic canopy]

This right here is what I’ve been saying for years. GV needs to have a combat system that’s just as fun as other directional combat games it’s competing against.

[magic canopy]

They are a plague. It doesn’t matter if you adapt to them. Their inclusion and frequent spamming is boring and bad for the gameplay imo

[magic canopy]

No one is trying to ruin anyone’s fun here. I’ve stated many reasons why keybindings are bad for the game, some of them in this thread. You however lie and accuse me of “mad cuz bad”. This is a pattern I’ve noticed amongst keybind defenders - straight up lying. It is you who are desperate for easy mode, stop projecting.

[cyan sparrow]

Ngl love how this is such a dividing line on the game 🤣 one side basing in fact and providing actual feedback. The other reminding me of pvp toxic culture. This reminds me of back when in conquerors blade everyone loved prefecture pikeman due to the charge mechanic one shotting every unit. Didn't matter what tier it was, just charge. People practically laid down all mental reason saying it was balanced because easy wins meant good brain vibes.

I don't care of anyone's intentions of keybound blocking/ attacking. The negative, hateful and obstructive comments to what could have been a constructive conversation remind me why GV made so many players quit the first time around.

I remember stomping Midland in the original game play and it wasn't the loss that made them quit. It was stuff like this. Where people provide real tangible feedback, but this mentality of "well that would make it harder I don't want that but never admit it" plagued the community.

The remove bound blocking may not be the solution. But wildly enough I'd say I'm not top ten, but I was top 30 for a bit there with under 4 hours a day of gameplay per day as some people have.

OG GV player also so I rememeber the old days and servers with people quitting. All I want? New player experience to be one where they stay so the game doesn't die again.

Many of you would rather defend a system that only benefits the vets than try to find a new solution and it speaks volumes.

Original issue was that Sangmar was over populated. I agreed, paid money to swap to ismir (weakest faction at the time) to just try to alleviate the bs.

In many ways these issues are much like the arguement in planetside that one faction is significantly stronger than the rest which was the Vanu. But if you only play Vanu you think the NCR are the most overpowered group.

Its the blind leading the blind or the sheep following the Shepard it seems. Critically think and realize that this isn't about mad cuz bad. This is genuine feedback from a GV vet who wants to see green leafs not die out in the first 2 weeks.

[brittle pecan]

Spamming them give me the option to light attack

[glacial shard]

Wow you guys really like beating this dead horse. 33% upvotes holy 🤩

[cyan sparrow]

Are you posting the stats? Or your brain function stats

[frank hare]

you can do this too....

[molten juniper]

This is one of those threads you simply have to hope the devs ignore

[glacial shard]

Now 31%. If you need me to teach you how to calculate percentages just let me know 😍

[glacial shard]

dw im sure the devs are pretty smart people and see there cries for what they are

[severe hearth]

I think we actually managed to trigger Cameron with this thread pretty hard...

[glacial shard]

bro i just find it funny watching people be mad cause bad

😂

[severe hearth]

Oh you dont owe me an explanation. just enjoy your time

[cyan sparrow]

Reminds me of the you are not yourself when you are hungry commercials - but instead its the "you are not yourself without keybind slop"

[glacial shard]

You and dirty maybe biggest mad cause badders in entire game

😂😂😂

[cyan sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/wut-shrug-gif-21587752

[glacial shard]

like what are you guys even arguing about, you feel like keybinds is slightly faster to hit then a directional input like how has this convo gone on for like 2 weeks

🤣

in dirties case 10 years

😂

[cyan sparrow]

I can teach you to read if you need help with those skills if you can't tell what the argument is about 😊

[glacial shard]

All you guys say is how keybinds somehow hold game back yet cant seem to provide a single example of how that is besides saying you think its slightly easier to click a button then move your mouse 1pixel and click a button

[pine slate]

Just rename this thread to "Discord PvP"

[molten juniper]

I could easily macro my blocks to work pretty much exactly the same as keybinds with full mouse controls just thought I would add that

[glacial shard]

If it were up to these guys when you played CS everyones DPI would be set to 400 and 1.0 because anything else would be unbalanced and therefore unfair

[molten juniper]

I would die I’m sitting on 3200 as my default lol

[cyan sparrow]

use 4k dpi

mouse movement is literally a quarter wrist turn lel

[glacial shard]

this is what im talking about, a dude thats playing CS with 4k DPI is trying to comment on control schemes

🤣

[molten juniper]

This thread holds about as much water as making a thread to cap dpi for mouse users

Completely op that this mouse guy can 360 at warp speed while I can only slowly turn around

[cyan sparrow]

? So my mouse input speed variation speed where I can to manually control my mouse is some how the same as keyboard auto block and auto swing with perfect entries

I'm lost on that one

[glacial shard]

mortalfollys brain is glitching out hes resorted to saying autoblock randomly in sentences

[cyan sparrow]

Does it not perfect auto block when you press said input?

Sorry correction - blocks based on your key stroke in the direction with perfect block

[pine slate]

It's technically more responsive to increase DPI and lower the sens whilst having the same eDPI

[molten juniper]

Just play keybinds mortal you will quickly find out you’re blowing hot air or you will become a god either way is a learning experience

[cyan sparrow]

Played with keybind. Don't like the ez

[molten juniper]

It’s awkward to play when you start

[cyan sparrow]

Mouse 3, 4 and middle mouse

[glacial shard]

this guy is coping so hard lmao

[cyan sparrow]

just click spam and get perfect blocks and walk through 4 or five people since directional block blocks everything left or right and most people all swing from the same side when they attack you for some reason

Usually get got by one person who throws a kick eventually

[molten juniper]

It’s hard to argue with you because you so clearly have no understanding of keybinds

[glacial shard]

MortalFolly so nooby he doesnt even know that every time you click block it drains your stamina

😂

[cyan sparrow]

It doesn't only if someone hits

[glacial shard]

spam block and you will watch your stamina drain lol

[pine slate]

Imagine using a mouse

[cyan sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/the-wizard-lucas-the-wizard-lucas-power-glove-nes-power-glove-power-glove-nintendo-gif-8941764928314157831

What I play on

[molten juniper]

Man out here with an Ironman gauntlet

[pine slate]

🙏

[molten juniper]

The key fact that instantly disproves the entire keybinds debate to me is that a majority of people play mouse or with one or two keys bound if it was actually op every player would swap to keybinds just like every cod sweat started using controllers with paddles or every mmo nerd bought a mmo mouse

It just doesn’t add up to me

[cyan sparrow]

Most do - the upvote vs downvote proves that exact theory lol

[glacial shard]

No they are just not 🤪 so they don't care about how people play or about very minimal advantages and just play games for fun

like you would have to be a master 🤪 to sit here and cry about this for as long as you and dirty do

[cyan sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/commercial-snickers-cranky-gif-5478685

[molten juniper]

It’s a very simple problem if it’s op play it if everyone plays it they can nerf it or accept it’s how the game is played

[cyan sparrow]

Actually I shouldn't disrespect Willem Dafoe like that. He's atleast only acting stupid

[cyan sparrow]

Yep that was the initial suggestion. Find a solution that makes the point

I think the reason everyone switches to it is because its easier

That was when this cascaded into a keybind vs directional

[glacial shard]

The only problem is how mad cause bad dirty and mortalfolly are they sit here and cry so hard even though some of the best players in the game use directional and Kemono won like 10 seasons in a row for Arena using Directional and Salami just won top glory and kills it on score every siege

[cyan sparrow]

Bro give up and take 5 Cameron lol

[molten juniper]

Idk why I keep posting in this thread I wrote mortal off as a rage baiter the first time I saw him type should have taken my own advice lol

[glacial shard]

But Dirty and Mortal folly are beta vets so they end up getting 1v2'd and then they punch there computer monitors and decide in there 🤪 heads that if only there were no keybinds this would not happen and that they would finally be good at the game

but in reality no matter what you do mortalfolly and dirty are just mad cause bad and as long as they are bad they will always find something dumb to cry endlessly about

[cyan sparrow]

I love how you are dragging Dirty into this and he's literally only given you feedback without any actual hate

[molten juniper]

Dirty is an alright guy he is just mad cause bad you I’m convinced are just a rage baiter

[glacial shard]

Dirty has raged out plenty of times through the last 10 years hes been crying about keybinds dw lol

[cyan sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-spongebob-and-squidward-spongebob-bottle-spongebob-baby-bottle-gif-3628434315218276212

[cyan sparrow]

Nah, I just truly want a solution. But something I'll just collect data on and provide cohesive evidence on vs just "mad cuz bad"

[glacial shard]

to get a solution you'd first need a problem

which none seems to exist

🤣

[molten juniper]

Idk about that your evidence was a sped up clip of nothing lol

[cyan sparrow]

One shows blocking with keybounds on a rando and the other shows directional combat. But I can just keep collecting the input times values etc. The reality is this chat doesn't truly matter. Its just facts and evidence

I just entertain people like Cameron as this is the 50 seconds of fames

[molten juniper]

That’s the problem is it does matter all it takes is a dev reading a couple nonsense posts for them to randomly change something and ruin it for everyone

[glacial shard]

MortalFolly is just saying random things its obvious hes mad cause badding all the players good at the game all mostly have opposite opinion and the ones that dont are just trolling in hopes there powerlevel increases when a bunch of vets quit the game

like only a 🤪 would sit here and constantly cry about minimal amounts of MS where you have to slow videos down by like 8x to even see

[cyan sparrow]

I don't think these devs make changes on the fly. They would need concrete details before making changes

That's a lot of lack of faith

Removing it isn't the solution and I agree with that. But a diff solution can be found I'm sure of it.

[glacial shard]

The good news is MortalFolly and Dirty have already lost this argument 5+ years ago and they are just beating a dead horse and using this thread to vent there impotenent rage from being mad cause bad

[cyan sparrow]

I'm sorry however much I hurt you Cameron. But you are boring

Recycle the same insult like 5 times in a row.

[glacial shard]

You are only person who is insulting in this thread because you are raging out bc your arguments are obviously dumb and you cant handle being wrong

Only reason people even talk is because they are spooked that some 🤪 is going to spam so much that the devs change there favourite game in a way which makes it unenjoyable

[cyan sparrow]

I'll give you that I have insulted your intelligence multiple times. But you do make it easy when you speak

[glacial shard]

"The Dunning-Kruger effect is a cognitive bias where people with limited knowledge or competence in a domain greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence." This is you.

😂

[severe hearth]

Jogs argument was always that keybinds should stay, so that ppl with physical disabilities can play the game too. Thats absolutely a good thing and Im all for supporting ppl with disabilities.

[cyan sparrow]

I think I recall that.

[cyan sparrow]

What do you think would bridge the gap there. I think its being abused is the issue.

[molten juniper]

Instead of making a thread to remove keybinds the smarter option would have been improve mouse control but this is gv after all

[cyan sparrow]

And the description provides more context. But reading is also the smarter option. But this is gv after all as you say

[glacial shard]

Nobody cares. Nobody whos good at the game cares. Only you noobs care because your mad cause bad. I play high graphics because I like how the game looks and it adds MS who cares. I post process frame gen to smooth out the game it adds MS. Nobody cares. I still kill all of you. Go buy a 9800x3D you will get 50ms better than me with directional. I don't care. Who cares. Like it's getting sad.

[molten juniper]

Nobody is going to read this whole thread for context that’s being unreasonable

[glacial shard]

Like to balance these weird things you guys are focused on everyone would need same hardware + same monitors + same software installed into windows. Its never gonna happen. You can get S tier with keybinds or directional. That's all that matters. Everything else is just noise.

[brittle pecan]

https://www.augmental.tech/

[cyan sparrow]

Playing with my tongue is crazy work

[brittle pecan]

i know there was a player with one hand who uses a mouse with a dog load of buttons on the side for walking

[cyan sparrow]

There is some cool tech for vision impairment I've gotten to help people work with in my line of work

[molten juniper]

There’s a few guys missing a hand or fingers etc

[cyan sparrow]

Yep, most of my community is military vets and active duty / law enforcement. We have wheelchair warriors (what they like to call themselves)

(I am neither. Just a sysadmin/Net Engi. Getting ready to dabble into DevOps.)

[glacial shard]

Story checks out, Only a programmer would waste there time arguing over this

[magic canopy]

I have made several suggestions/threads of that nature. Funnily enough improvements to mouse movements usually gets downvoted by keybinders for some reason.

[magic canopy]

Not true and also I started playing at 1.0 launch. By now it’s obvious you have a troubling relationship with truth. Prosocial behaviour in general tbh.

[random oak]

''improvements''

[magic canopy]

You’re lying again. Good/top players are overrepresented amongst critics of keybindings and indicators

[magic canopy]

Feel free to prove me wrong and upvote this: a pure bug fix/ improvement to mouse movement. https://discord.com/channels/235484117616033792/1498359070724329523

[random oak]

I don't need to prove you wrong, you need to prove yourself right. If the bug is has you say, it should be really ez to make a video of you turning left and swinging right or vice-versa...

it's not like I downvoted either

unlike deadzone

[magic canopy]

I’ve posted several screenshots from a video in a sequence aka frames of the video with debug enabled. Ghostickles independently replicated the bug and posted screenshots as well. You know this. You just don’t want to upvote because either it’s personal between you and me or you want to derail threads that bring attention to mouse movement. And why downvote deadzone? It’s a well liked feature by many

[random oak]

So ez to prove yet still unable to do so

deadzone is a trap setting that new players should turn down to 0 immediatly. It's great for people with disabilities I guess

[magic canopy]

This right here proves my point. You are just trying to derail. I’ve posted irrefutable proof of the bug. Let me chock you with some information Elie but a video is actually individual pictures shown in sequence. I posted all of the frames that creates the clip that you want but perhaps I should have posted a looped 100ms long video instead. The debug shows without question that the character is doing the opposite movement of the direction indicator and Ghostickles replicates it.

Anyone reading that thread and your response here immediately spots how dishonest you’re being right now. You’re fooling no one, you’re simply putting the emotional satisfaction you derive from being unfriendly ahead of fixing bugs. Quite an uncharming personality trait.

[random oak]

It should be really ez to make a video of you turning left and swinging right or vice-versa.

[magic canopy]

Should we make a ban bet? If I post a video containing the frames I’ve posted you’ll quit this discord forever. Since you think I’m wrong.

[random oak]

Post a video where you show the bug and ill see the bug

https://discord.com/channels/235484117616033792/1500577029177999471
Here i complain about something and i show what im complaining about. Try that

[glacial shard]

Dirty hits a bit of desync and guys going ape slowing everything down frame by frame and using aftermarket tools to analyze his findings

[random oak]

Jarvis, pull the info on backpack’s crashouts

[glacial shard]

you would crash out too if you had people like dirty msging you 13x a day

[random oak]

Lmao, and it’s just clipchamp and gpu recording

Free

[pine slate]

I am a disgusting, sweaty full blown keybind abuser, all my blocks are bound, all my attacks are bound, yet I made the post

Consider this an offering of peace

From here forward, I ask you all for a seize fire.
Too many have bled, the Discord PvP must stop

[silk sigil]

i dont see the bug. i see desynch, but where is the bug?

[random oak]

where did I say there was a bug ?

[silk sigil]

i mean, im guessing you think its turn rate, but i think its just desynch

[random oak]

It's 100% turn rate and it's in feedback

[silk sigil]

eh, if its not synched not sure how faster movement makes it synch??

but still, i dont see how 'turn rate' is the issue in this videa.

[random oak]

first time getting desynced by someone in front of me and 2 meters away

[silk sigil]

sure, yeah, i get the still frame issue, given this frame we see angle and block should be good - but it was not. client prediction works fine on your screen but there is prediction and replication and some where in between is simulation, and that is what fkd up here, not the rate or timing of your turn.

[cyan sparrow]

This is the nicest calling someone out I've read

https://tenor.com/view/hans-zimmer-zimmer-music-piano-pianist-gif-15889192023228718011

[molten juniper]

turning faster doesnt magically stop desync i think it actually makes it worse but what it does do is make it much easier to deal with desync the clip ellie posted when he hits the overhead if there was the old turn speed rate its easily block able but because there is a lower turn rate cap i get hit

[silk sigil]

mmmhm, watch it on slowest playback, it looks like you tun, your turn stops, you change from attack to a block ( input if directional but the stop in turn is clear). The end of the day; once the turn stopped it doesn't look like you started to turn again early enough to be in front of the release.

not the rate, the time, according to the frames

but then, on eli's screen, that's replication of your movement, on your screen prediction could have shown the desired inputs and rotation and it may have looked like he hit through your block, honestly these need side by side videos from both players to be valuable.

[molten juniper]

i remember it clearly i 180 turned holding block and on the first hit i got on him i was straight up shoulder to shoulder with him on my screen but on his im fairly far away you just see straight up different things at times

i was even holding block after i got hit becuase i knew it was going to hit and it tilted me

[silk sigil]

...these need side by side videos from both players to be valuable
What tilts me is bein called a troll for pointing out the obvious; even slower movement and turn speed would further reduce desynch, which are what these cases are; the fix is not increasing ballerina. (slowing down would feel like arse, ergo here we are)

[random oak]

Get on in 5 and I'll show you, you can judge if it's desync or turn rate yourself

[molten juniper]

elie do be the king of desync this is his area of expertise

[random oak]

Bruh not even close

Try vermette

Or any high ping player

[molten juniper]

nah your entire style against me for years has been shove through my right shoulder and hit me in the back

even on alts its your style 😄

[silk sigil]

aggressive players all do it

[random oak]

Im agressive yes but playing distance or s key is boring

[molten juniper]

everyone does it some focus it

[silk sigil]

's not focus, u get in close and move quick the game poops

[random oak]

I try to switch it up but im usually going for the opponents back

[molten juniper]

at a certain point you know what you're doing lol

[random oak]

Which increases likelyhood of desync

[silk sigil]

's just how it is, afaik only slowing it down max paynfully would help

[molten juniper]

just increase turn rate it will make it worse but you will also be able to use skill to counter it

[silk sigil]

eli fight cassander, but both u record pls, i have to get up again here in t-minus short

[random oak]

But i havent been able to turn and reliably get the hit in even if desync happens since turn cap

But that’s different from punishing kicks

Meh i was happy to prove it to you live in 5 mins but im not looking for a bug or desync when i don’t think its the problem, lmk when you can hop on if server are still up

[silk sigil]

can pick this up on launch, havent played in a few days and im only up and down on PC rn, but part of the impression i got when they did the cap was to make it so u can punish a kick but not get also easily behind and punish.?

[random oak]

I thought it was to make it harder to land, not unusable in arena* duels

[crystal wedge]

how can i upvote this? 😄

[frigid dome]

They use to have a tiny delay? No wonder keybind can block every direction by spamming block on every button since it has none

It’s also every keybinder so happens to be 2h and are almost impossible to kick break since it’s a lot harder to tell when they’re blocking lol

A 2h weapon shouldn’t be more defensive then a shield have more range more damage and be more defensive it’s just absurd meanwhile shield is easier to see blocking easier to kick because of that reason gets 10% less damage and uses more stam add a tiny delay to swapping blocking issue fixed

People also complain but spear poke poke. But what they don’t realize is it’s only got a poke and the swings on it are absurdly weak

Like 50-85 damage even less if they have gold armor and tinctures on

[night halo]

The real problem with spears no one talks about is the fact we have 2 talents in the ability skill tree that affect spears. no other weapon has this (except bows/ daggers but they are unviable without). IMO thats a big reason we see so many spears. we just need more skill points to spend for other weapon types.

[glacial shard]

This is so bad and not even accurate you can see someone blocking with a 2h and see someone blocking with a shield just people with shields tend to be worse players for whatever reason and even if they hold there block it doesnt even matter because if you see someone blocking they can just stop blocking once you kick

Only thing kicking is good against is killing noobs and spamming kick at someone whos surrounded in a gatehouse to kill them faster

[frigid dome]

Its much more visible when a person is blocking with a shield then a 2h weapon are you playing this game?

[glacial shard]

Who cares you can avoid a kick even if you are blocking, you see the kick come you just stop blocking not that difficult

[nova holly]

How does a 2h have more defense

My brother in christ I don't think we're playing the same game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX9HId-VWFQ

[night halo]

its just skill gap. a noob with shield will have much less "defence" than a good player with 2h. so for new players its understandable that they think 2h is more tanky and does more damage.

[frigid dome]

I’m not a new player it’s just facts a skilled player using keybinds far exceeds a player using a shield they have way more damage as 2h 1h can take between 5-7 hits to kill somebody where as 2h 3-4 these are facts

[brittle pecan]

i think meh

a shield can block all directions at the asme time.

A two handed user who is good/godlike if fighting against godlike players who are not dumb who do two types of the attack at the same time.

depends on the player really.

[glacial shard]

2h should be better because as you just pointed out 2h requires more skill and you should be rewarded for that

[frigid dome]

It shouldn’t be that much better tho sure it requires more skill but just putting a shield on is a penalty

[brittle pecan]

thats more stupid to say.

one handed or two handed is the same thing without using the shield
one handed weapons without a shield is same thing right?

[frigid dome]

My point is that 2h have too much of an advantage over 1h if played correctly

I’d say with 100% certainty that if the best 2h player fought the best 1h player that the 2h would win

[nova holly]

If you cant 2v1 a 2h user its kind of a skill issue man

[frigid dome]

Purely because they would have less stam if they used shield with effectively gets rid of any stam bonus for being 1h and less dps

No one’s really talking about 2v1 it’s 1v1

[nova holly]

The one handed thats faster would lose you think?

You know people specifically go into arena with one handers for that reason right

[frigid dome]

Have you seen some 2h weapons? They attack nearly as fast

[tulip jackal]

its nearly the same speed bro

[frigid dome]

And that speed doesn’t matter if you know how to block…

[nova holly]

You guys are peculiar

[brittle pecan]

they are faster tho

shorter reach
faster
less stmina

[tulip jackal]

yeah , faster by 0.05 or smthing like that

[nova holly]

When its about one hands being faster its "nearly same speed" but when 1h does 85% the damage of a 2h its suddenly a massive deal

[frigid dome]

The less stamina I already pointed out is negated by shield effectively

[brittle pecan]

if i use 1h without a shield because

[tulip jackal]

who play 1h without a shield , because the fast thing dont matter , its not really a pros

[glacial shard]

You guys are missing the point of why 2h even is good and thats because of the range dmg is less important

[nova holly]

I do play 1h without shield

Because its... faster

with the same damage

[frigid dome]

Then no point in using 1h without shield

[nova holly]

And i like directional blocking

[glacial shard]

and 1h feels faster because you are closer but you can get close and angle your char and 2h sword just as fast

[nova holly]

How are so many of you so wrong

[frigid dome]

It doesn’t have anywhere near the same damage it’s 20-50 damage less each hit 2h swords are monsters yes

[brittle pecan]

fmerf only uses shields when the enemy is making everyone look like a Hedgehog or a porcupine

[tulip jackal]

fmerf , u r just rage baiting at this point

[nova holly]

woooo 15% less damage on my faster weapon that grants me a forcefield

[glacial shard]

I only got #1 Arena on Aqui 1 and 2 for the last tests what do i know

🤷

[brittle pecan]

faster weapon with high ping = less time to do stuff or think about blocking too

[nova holly]

You're aware that you can also angle with a 1h right

But ive only wasted 9 years of my life religiously playing this game what do i know

[frigid dome]

Yup Cameron is right the speed difference is so little I’m not sure it exists the main weapon that I seen is slower is axe for sure tho

[nova holly]

All 1h except for dagger are same speed and animation

[violet wadi]

2h being more defensive than a shield is probably the most wild take I've seen in awhile and that has nothing to do with bound blocking

[nova holly]

yeah 2h defense is exactly the same mechanically except you have to directional block

[tulip jackal]

you just turn aside , do the block of that side , you will block like a shield actually X)

[nova holly]

Stop having your boys all side swinging

[brittle pecan]

xD having a mini game of rock scissor paper in your head for guessing if your ally is going to do an attack and which one

[nova holly]

Well half his guild plays 1h spear, it cant be that hard

[frigid dome]

The main point of this discussion is effectively a 2h weapon has the potential to be just as effective blocking as a shield when’s the last time you broke the guard of a weapon?

[tulip jackal]

if your friend have axes , spears , etc , you do more swings 😄

[violet wadi]

You know when a shield breaks what happens

[nova holly]

If your enemy is as effective at blocking with a 2h as you are with shields, youre just playing wrong man

Just sync an overhead and a side and he'll die in 5 seconds

[violet wadi]

Last stand exists for a reason

[nova holly]

Even literally the goddest player of all time will die in 5 seconds if you do it right

Shield could still tank that

[frigid dome]

And yet tons of people can be surrounded as 2h and block them for a good bit before they go down just like a shield seen it from every nation

[nova holly]

Because they're doing it wrong

Its not 2h fault if people dont play together

[frigid dome]

There’s nearly no delay between which sides they can block its instant that’s why it’s so effective

[nova holly]

So how will they figure out how to block middle and side at the same time?

Even tarzan and the boys can easily bang me out when i could go 20/0 on them in duels. Thats how the game works and is the downside of 2h

But when I picked up a shield I can just meme around a whole group for like 60 seconds

[tulip jackal]

u r the meme X)

[frigid dome]

Point is the blocking is so fast that if you don’t hit them at nearly the same time from opposite blocking with another player 2v1 the 2h can block it

And it’s almost impossible to break 2h guard as well like a shields

[night halo]

well than in that case the 2h player is outskilling the two attackers by a large margin

[violet wadi]

Is your point that you want the game to be unskillful? I would argue already the game has a low skill cap

[frigid dome]

You can’t exactly communicate with another player no one knows the others action toast

[nova holly]

Then hit them at the same time

[violet wadi]

You can though it's actually pretty easy

[night halo]

You can easily see thier swing timer and the animation of when they release

[nova holly]

Compared to every other melee game GV is already quite simplified

If the other guy knows what he's doing, he'll hold until youre ready to swing. Then you swing

Like, youre providing the solution but wont use it.

[night halo]

a shield wouldnt suffer in the same case 1v2 and it's even amplified further with 1v3 or 1v4. Thats what make good shield users so effective in this game. if you can just distract more than 2 players for an amount of time it gives your team such a big advanatage.

the only class that comes close to giving this much advantage in a teamfight is medics.

[frigid dome]

If you’re focusing shields as 2h you’re already doing it wrong in big fights…

[night halo]

when ever im in a squad with my bois the first shotcall is usually "focus the 2h" we kill him in 2 secs and we win. The only way they can counter this is if they have shield users that help him live.

[violet wadi]

Isn't that the point you're arguing against that 2h is more defensive than shield?

[night halo]

thats another thing ppl never talk about. a shield user can stand infront of multiple enemies and position himself between them and a teammate thus saving a teammate from dying. this is impossible with a 2h cause you can only block 1 direction, so you would end up dying.

[frigid dome]

I’m arguing it can just just as defensive as a shield in the right instances it should be easier to overpower someone

[night halo]

from the points i listed is the reason i completely disagree with you

[frigid dome]

You can disagree but there’s a reason all the top players use 2h

[violet wadi]

The reason isn't defensive

[frigid dome]

It is because they’re skilled enough

[nova holly]

This is how youre supposed to do it.

Mind that i lived long because this is prepatch damage.

There is literally not a thing I can do with a 2h here.
With a shield, i could live much longer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJjw-ppk3ic

[tulip jackal]

damn , ur just bad like me .. ur blocking is wrong , and your footplay is wrong 😄

[nova holly]

Yeah i shouldve just blocked up and right at the same time

[frigid dome]

W key and hide behind enemy potentially hitting both

[nova holly]

I genuinely think your guys complaint is just that the game is skill based at this point

Just do what they did, everyone will collapse

[tulip jackal]

u can do that if u didint know ..

[nova holly]

With.. A shield? Yeah

[tulip jackal]

with 2h -.-

[nova holly]

I hope youre trolling

[frigid dome]

Remember no delay from block direction so if their attacks aren’t spot on a very skilled player will never die

[nova holly]

Then do it correctly

[tulip jackal]

i think you dont know how LOL , its only not possible when they spread around you

[nova holly]

Its not like he can mind read who will attack first, you dont need it to be the samw frame

enlighten me

[frigid dome]

And yet I’ve seen dozens of fights where a 2h gets completely surrounded and still doesn’t die immediately

[nova holly]

Because theyre not doing it right

[frigid dome]

Yup that’s it

You say they’re not doing it right yet they block attacks from every direction

[nova holly]

You saw how easily i died in that clip

When i regularly pull of stuff like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_TJbrSTHeo&t=1

[frigid dome]

You were S keying whole time not using them as body block…

[violet wadi]

🪤

[nova holly]

Doesnt matter, theyll just keep w keying

[cyan sparrow]

Got me literally yelling swing back

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djaYnGED-K0&t=42

Still loved figthing people with fishing equipment

to prove 2h meme

[nova holly]

Its darksin and ender, swinging back wouldve just killed me faster

[cyan sparrow]

I know but I was dying inside x'D I was like SWING SWING I don't CARE LIVE WIN

[nova holly]

Thats old though i play more aggressive now.
Even when i dont have the gear unfortunately haha

[cyan sparrow]

I will say I got rusty being away from GV. Can't pull the 1v3 like I use to

[nova holly]

Yeah im kinda washed at the moment, but its fun actually progressing again instead of just being at the same level forever

[real lake]

what a crazy read today

[cyan sparrow]

ngl this discussion is going down as the record longest comment section I think for GV

Outside of when everyone spammed that digital art in general when the server went down and got like 40 percent of the vets banned lol

[real lake]

hope they add 8 attack directions and make shields destroyable, raise the bar

[cyan sparrow]

ngl that would be wild

[real lake]

game "Swordeye" has 6 directions with a few pve MMO elements and it works amazing

[nova holly]

Wasnt it 8 before?

I only played ages ago with the red guys in the floating arenas

[nova holly]

Just 8 directional m&b

[real lake]

maybe

[brittle pecan]

just two would be fine 😄

[silk sigil]

lol ... been going on for years tbh

[severe hearth]

a 2h weapon is for chads, a shield for nubs who cant block. its really that easy

if you re a chad you get that range bonus. if you re a nub you get a shield so you can block

and a 1h spear is still the best weapon in open group fights

case closed

[nova holly]

The range bonus of having less range than a 1h spear

[severe hearth]

but you have 3 directions with 2h and only 1 direction with the spear-thing

so giving 2h the same range bonus like the spear thing would be bad

[nova holly]

Counter argument, its one handed and longer than two handed polearms.

[random oak]

personally, I always favor 2h but I'll pull out a shield if I need to block arrows or if the team dies too fast. 2h is great but if everyone dies in 30 seconds it's no good.

[brittle pecan]

Or if you get focused

i remember when winter and the other were playing we would focus two handers quckly while toying around with shield users

[molten juniper]

I prefer being on two hand when I’m being ganked it sounds dumb but your best survival chance is killing your gankers not turtling on them

You know you’re in trouble when you gank a shield guy and he pulls out that hammer on you

[trail yarrow]

Redirect shield bash off of a chamber into sneaky escape. Works almost never but my god it feels good

[nova holly]

Unless you have your boys on their way i agree.
But most people just detonate without a shield so theyd still stick to that

[late salmon]

Reading the opinion that two handers block better than shields is wild. The reason you see two handers blocking more is quite simply that shield users are typically less skilled, it's the reason new players gravitate towards using them, because it provides an easier experience to help compensate for the lack of skill. 1 handers are faster, faster than most even know. A 1h sword does full damage before the animation is complete, even before the charge bar hits yellow. And the damage and range are not far off from the two handed sword, the range is like a foot less. The damage is almost completely equal. Depending on someones build it usually results in one extra hit to kill them with the one handed sword over the two handed. Pair that with a shield that let's you mindlessly block and it has the potential to devastate.

I would honestly argue the meta for both duels and groupfights are 1 handers.

Duels the 1h sword is slept on, it's very good once you understand that you can release earlier than the animation shows.

In groupfights there is a reason so many people use 1h spears with a shield, good range, good damage, backstrafe and poke forever. With the ability to block mindlessly.

The reason people use two handers over one handers is a combination of things.

1. people like large weapons
2. the ability to cleave
3. because using a shield is often seen as a crutch, and this is a skill based game.

[late salmon]

I'm too lazy to reply here further, so if anyone wants to argue what I wrote: mad cause bad

[nova holly]

Square jawline

[glacial shard]

wow @cyan sparrow thats a great video really impressive how you beat that guy holding S spamming light attacks with a spear 1v1. You are a very great player. Holy. 🤩

guy was only able to take out half your health too jeeze louise

🤩🤩🤩

[fathom gull]

100% true statement. If 2H lives long enough, its not while he use Kbinds or not, he is just fast and has a good movement. Once its proper done, the attacks will kill him. But i agree, its not that easy to do it also (from the attackers view).

[molten juniper]

Definitely winnable they timed fairly well not perfectly though and your footwork was the biggest problem s keying is what got you killed

[nova holly]

You wouldnt call it winnable if you knew the guys

You cant hit them in a 1v1 youll never kill them in a 1v2

[molten juniper]

You could have ran a few different times with good footwork

Could have done a lot more is the point idk if it’s winnable or not for you against those guys but you definitely could have survived a lot longer or ran off on them

[severe hearth]

I would

[nova holly]

Yeah but running isnt gonna give me any fun

[severe hearth]

You just chamber, hold your weapon and attack once you see a gap. Chamber, hold your weapon, attack. Chamber... then hold... hold... then attack. Easy

But you just hold and press S... nub

[nova holly]

Lmao

[glacial shard]

Chambering one of the worst additions to the game.

So much BS happens when you combine laggy servers and noobs spamming random attacks

[violet wadi]

i love getting chambered by someone not even paying attention to me happens very often

i think its decent addition but the timing window is so forgiving

[glacial shard]

Chambering would be good if we wernt playing with people who had 300 ping and the servers ran significantly better than they currently do

And the timing window as previously stated was reduced to a more appropriate level

[random oak]

If chambering was strong, you'd use it in duels

[glacial shard]

yea thats the other problem its not strong, its mainly for noobs cheesing hits they have no business blocking

too inconsistent for anyone good at the game to consider using

just a bad mechanic that could maybe be good in a world where control of your char was tight

[random oak]

I like it, I don't think it does any harm and it definitely helps in 1vX against some people

newbs aren't magically good because of it and it's easily manageable and counterable so it's not very usefull against vets

[real lake]

chamber+desync is strong

still gv is one of the worst directional games for duels

[random oak]

which is the best ?

[real lake]

warband with fastest server speed

[random oak]

never played MP warband, only bannerlord

[real lake]

so sad how they fumbled bannerlord, they only had to make better graphics

warband is faster, better footwork and spacing (there's no momentum, instant acceleration/deceleration), tighter chambers and feints, easy to read animations

https://youtu.be/8cVMhbrESHQ

[random oak]

idk man

it looks so bad, I don't think I'd enjoy it

bannerlord really isn't that bad xd

[fathom gull]

Few seconds more, but def. Not winable.

[limpid saffron]

Sheilder has the tankiness of a shield, then the tankiness of 1h weapon block. Also I have not in memory not noticed when a 2h'r (or 1h'r w/out shield) is blocking and which direction they are blocking. Your take is literally a skill issue not a real take.

[molten juniper]

the problem with 1h specifically in 1 v x is the lack of cleave you offer basically zero threat because you cant cleave

[trail yarrow]

Did they change the timing window ? It feels much longer now. And poopier

[molten juniper]

idk if they increased the window or not but something i noticed is its borderline impossible to chamber after you kick it used to be much faster than going for a block but it doesnt work very often anymore

[nova holly]

I wouldnt be surprised if they just lowered the servers tick rate

[limpid saffron]

1h can toss, at a gatehouse biffing axes and spears is a game changer in many instances

[molten juniper]

in a 1 v x situation throwing is a death sentence

[limpid saffron]

Stand back and throw between the gaps

[severe hearth]

A dagger or a sword can be game changer in 1vX if you can block and chamber

[nova holly]

Dagger works kinda well because of low end lag, you can get a hit in and block pretty fast.

The thing about cleave is that even if you hit a guy and the 2nd guy blocks, thatll remove any end lag and let you block immediately

So you can just queue a block while attacking and block super early

[severe hearth]

All we need is a 2h Dagger

[tight sparrow]

If you remove keybinds you won’t make the combat more challenging you’ll just make it clunky and less intense.

Remove keybinds? Well now 4th direction has to be introduced properly and 1h/2h Spear becomes meta instantly as overhead/stab become separate, have fun spending a month wasting time trying to make the other weapons have more utility/power whilst fixing a shitload of bugs

Good luck holding a shield wall when the shields break and people are overheading with axe and stabbing with spears at the same time

Have fun dealing with desync now that everything must be blocked directionally

You also remove any skill in outnumbered group fighting needed and so the game will become Even vs Even or no fight at all

[nova holly]

Im not for removing them at this point, but why would a change in controls need to change the functional combat mechanics or remove outnumbered skill?

[real lake]

that will just raise the floor, not that big deal since it's still be the slowest directional game in the market

[tight sparrow]

well I just mean in situations where both attack directions are swung at perfect timing, idk how low u can range the deadzone

[real lake]

deadzone can be lowered to 0 for instant feeling, what is needed is angle customization like this image #1500775725756579850 message

[tight sparrow]

oh wow thats pretty

[cyan sparrow]

If we make combat any simpler I'm getting my nephew to play and slap keys

[brittle pecan]

?

[tight sparrow]

mortal 1v1 me next I think u can beat me easily with ur no keybinds

it would be good practice for me!

[crystal wedge]

I like binding center block and use mouse for left/right. Sometimes feels odd when mouse snaps a center block. Would be a nice feature to get rid of that skill issue... :D:D:D

[pine slate]

Full binds allow to 'remove that skill issue', so I'd say it's fair to give hybrid mouse users the same functionality

[molten juniper]

If they did that I would probably play mouse

[tulip jackal]

last week i did buy a cheap steering wheel , so i can prepare to use the pedals as my blocking bounds without changing ny classic bindings of a lifetime

also in this game , we can only straf sideways , while in every other games, w can bind turning character with binding , if it was possible i would play without a mouse and use num pads for both my attacks and my blocks , i wont need a mouse anymore

[magic canopy]

You’re an abomination to all that is good in gaming 😂

[molten juniper]

i dont think ive ever not immediately rebound any game that has turn keys to just strafe that is an actual crime

[tulip jackal]

the best things in life are mostly illegal anyway. crimes for angels are basically paradise for demons

using a numpad instead of a mouse , like its some kind of approx 16 key ergonomic miracle designed to fit perfectly in one hand, comfortably and efficiently , u're missing out on the good stuff, bro

[molten juniper]

on shear principle im not using the numpad i remember the days before wasd never again brother