calamity-update-talk

[brittle escarp]

So Thanatos alone has more

[unique warren]

At 2.3m, yes

[brittle escarp]

The only thing is that Thanatos either has like 100% DR or 0. DoG has a much more consistent amount, but its lower

If we go by contact damage logic, DoG would splatter against Thanatos as every segment of his gets hits by every segment of Thanatos’ while he is invincible

DoG would just splat lol

[unique warren]

😭

They don’t do that much contact damage

[brittle escarp]

I mean scaled up

But DoG also has invincible desperation dashes. That could shred Thanatos while he is firing lasers

And DoG is mobile enough to dodge the big beam

[distant raft]

thats exclusive to malice

[brittle escarp]

I think it would be close

[distant raft]

the desp

[brittle escarp]

Right but when he has the like helmet thing in phase 2

[unique warren]

And also like this is entirely not even accounting lore whatsoever 😭 😭

[brittle escarp]

Even in death

[brittle escarp]

True

In lore who would win?

[distant raft]

in lore thana wipes the fucking floor

[brittle escarp]

Really?

I thought it would be DoG

He tunnels around a bunch and keeps blindsiding Thanatos

[distant raft]

dog is strong but thana was created with the intention of being invincible and taking space and it'd do the first thing real good against dog

[unique warren]

Draedon is very good at what he does

[brittle escarp]

True

I think ares and the twins would get wiped tho

They don’t have the defensive capabilities

And their projectiles are too slow

DoG is a speedy boi

[unique warren]

Ehhhh

[raw falcon]

Hell thana could just keep charging DoG and not fire any lasers and DoG would be fucked

[brittle escarp]

I think he would overheat

Thus the ventilation when he opens up

[unique warren]

How would that make him overheat

[brittle escarp]

Like he naturally overheats unless he opens up to vent

I think that’s why he doesn’t just stay invincible

[raw falcon]

I think thana isn't thermally sustainable to begin with

[brittle escarp]

At least that’s what I heard

[unique warren]

I suppose so lol

[brittle escarp]

Otherwise, why not just stay invincible

Now here is the real question: Yharon or DoG

[unique warren]

Most obvious question ever lmfao

[brittle escarp]

Really?

[raw falcon]

but yeah thanatos is built like a shit brick house on steroids tbh

he'd body dog

[brittle escarp]

Doesn’t DoG have a little bit of auric cancelling shenanigans or was that just fovos

[raw falcon]

dont think so

[brittle escarp]

Oh

Then Yharon might sweep

[unique warren]

Might?

[raw falcon]

yeah he would

[unique warren]

He’s clearly supposed to be stronger in game and in the lore

[brittle escarp]

Fair

[raw falcon]

there's a reason he comes after dog

[brittle escarp]

But yharon is so much easier

I guess just a gameplay quirk

[raw falcon]

as of now

[unique warren]

Why is that a factor here

[raw falcon]

dude is getting reworked when the resprite drops

[brittle escarp]

I didn’t know how strongly correlated lore and gameplay strength are

[unique warren]

Like yeah the mod has bad boss design most of the time, why are we factoring that in here

[brittle escarp]

Also just like raw stats

[unique warren]

Idk why we’re relying on gameplay to make this conclusion rather than just lore

[brittle escarp]

Dog I believe has one of the hardest single hits

[raw falcon]

might also get a temporary rework like current dog got somewhere down the line, though that's just speculation

[unique warren]

Because only really lore matters here

[brittle escarp]

Fair

I also just don’t know that much Yharon lore

He doesn’t have many feats

[raw falcon]

last auric dragon, second strongest there ever was

dude is straight up immortal

[brittle escarp]

But wasn’t the gap between him and zeratros quite large

Like quite large

[raw falcon]

i think so? Still, he's beefy

[brittle escarp]

Fair

[raw falcon]

I think he'd just burn dog to a crisp tbh

[brittle escarp]

But SCal is still able to take him I think. If I am not mistaken. Both exos and SCal scaled to old Yharim which is a little above current yharon

[brittle escarp]

Deserved

[raw falcon]

fuck no

[unique warren]

Anyways I really hope they can make all, or at least most of the cal bosses good

[brittle escarp]

Really?

[raw falcon]

old yharim was like a planet buster iirc

[brittle escarp]

No I mean old Yharim as in current lore Yharim from when he fought Braelor and Statis

[raw falcon]

i think scal could take yharon but they don't scale to old lore

[brittle escarp]

Old in the new lore

[raw falcon]

ah

[brittle escarp]

Yeah mb

[raw falcon]

yeah then maybe

[brittle escarp]

I think it would be close

[unique warren]

This conversation is awful 😭

[raw falcon]

yeah

[brittle escarp]

SCal seems like a glass canon

[unique warren]

Powerscaling slop

[raw falcon]

i feel like scal is rather more comparable to yharon in strenght rather than surpassing him entirely

[brittle escarp]

I think powerscaling can be interesting

At least narratively

There are usually narrative reasons for power placements

[unique warren]

I mean I guess but this is just kinda boring

[brittle escarp]

Fair enough

[unique warren]

Especially since these are kind of obvious

[raw falcon]

i mean yeah sure but its still fun to speculate how an encounter realistically would go, even if the outcome is obvious

but yeah i dont really like powerscaling either most of the time

[brittle escarp]

I just like to have a set ranking in my head so I know how different people would interact based on that

Like would DoG be more sheepish around yharon because he knows he is going to get jumped?

[raw falcon]

especially when it goes to shit like outerversal or other arbitrary stuff like that

[brittle escarp]

Well yeah then it’s terrible

[unique warren]

It’s just like

[brittle escarp]

Anything greater than like island strength is just not interesting

[unique warren]

Yeah scal would obviously beat Yharon’s ass

[brittle escarp]

But like what does that imply about their interactions? Does Yharon respect SCal? Does he dislike that a mortal is stronger than him? How does that influence character bits

That’s the more interesting part for me personally

[raw falcon]

We straight up dont know enough about his personality to deduce that iirc

[brittle escarp]

We need more yharon lore

It would be so peak

[raw falcon]

the dude is resentful and instigated the crusade alongside yharim but

thats about it

[unique warren]

We do yeah but dw it’ll happen

[raw falcon]

we do?

[brittle escarp]

🙏 I trust the lore devs

[unique warren]

We do need more, I mean

[raw falcon]

ah

yeah thirded

i mean to be fair

yharon was rather irrelevant up until yharim came around

like, yes, every dragon could revive through him but

he was just some guy tbh

[vivid hemlock]

he was literally the center of their society

[raw falcon]

wait fr

[brittle escarp]

Wait was he like the pope

Or Jesus?

Idk

[vivid hemlock]

like hes what kept them from dying out because the auric dragons could still age

[brittle escarp]

Oh I thought they were biologically immortal

Does that mean he kept old Duke alive?

Why?

[vivid hemlock]

auric dragons

[brittle escarp]

Then how is old Duke still alive

[raw falcon]

no old duke is just some fucking animal

whos just really old

[vivid hemlock]

duke is not an auric dragon

[brittle escarp]

Bruh he is like 2k years old tho

[dusk bronze]

he's still a regular dragon though

[brittle escarp]

Like how is he that old

[vivid hemlock]

old duke is just one of the oldest offshoots

[raw falcon]

idfk dude was built different

[brittle escarp]

I guess

[vivid hemlock]

we dont know how old dragon society is

[brittle escarp]

Sheer spite and hatred

[brittle escarp]

Fair

[unique warren]

Yeah it’s just Jared and Old Duke that are regular Dragons?

[dusk bronze]

local fish literally too angry to die

[vivid hemlock]

wyrms, fishrons, basilisks, follies, wyverns, pigrons

[unique warren]

Oh true

[brittle escarp]

I can’t believe we beat up dragon Jesus to take his soul to make into bricks so we can beat up a homeless woman and a roomba

[vivid hemlock]

hes not rlly jesus tho

hes evil and fucked up

[brittle escarp]

Evil Jesus

[raw falcon]

thats called the antichrist

[raw falcon]

i mean to be fair

you would also be evil and fucked up if you saw your entire people get eaten

[vivid hemlock]

eaten?

[raw falcon]

not literally

[thorny fjord]

Absorbed through soul osmosis

[brittle escarp]

I mean, if every single human on earth was relentlessly hunted down to its last member just for like ants to steal their souls through their bodies, you would probably hold a grudge too

[vivid hemlock]

okay ascending but like yharon is also just unable to see why people ascended

[runic fable]

Mmm, yummy. Rubs my belly full of Auric Dragons.

[rose laurel]

This is Emet Selch all over again and why I always think of that fucker when writing for Yharon

[vivid hemlock]

it wasnt an organized plot to end the dragons they either wanted revenge or their souls

[rose laurel]

I still love the fucking line

I do not consider you to be fully alive. Ergo, I will not be guilty of murder if I kill you.

[raw falcon]

Im still waiting for auric polterghast to drop /j

[brittle escarp]

Right but imagine it from Yharon’s perspective. A bunch of ants start genociding your entire race, ripping their souls out of their dying bodies before you can bring them back, and then being praised as heroes. They then establish a new world order on the smoking corpse of your millenia long empire. Like yeah I would hate ants too

[rose laurel]

Yharon is like Emet Selch if he had literally none of the things that made Emet somewhat reasonable

[unique warren]

I don’t know who that is

[runic fable]

What is Emet Selch?

[rose laurel]

FF14 character

Tl;dr

[unique warren]

Oh

[raw falcon]

why is emet selch?

[brittle escarp]

🤔

[dusk bronze]

because they think

[raw falcon]

therefore they are?

[dusk bronze]

✅

[brittle escarp]

RENE DESCARTES

[rose laurel]

Emet is a character who belongs to a former civilization and he has a plan to basically kill 14 worlds, and in doing so he would bring back all of his people. What makes Emet work is that he is unironically the hero of his own story, if he beats you he will be hailed as the hero who brought his people back from the brink, but if you beat him you will be the hero who stopped the destruction of the 14 Shards.

[raw falcon]

anyways would yharon come back to beat our ass after he revives or would we be dead by then?

[misty wren]

is that why its called final fantasy 14

[rose laurel]

No it's the 14th game

[raw falcon]

there were 13 final fantasies before then

[rose laurel]

They just made 14 Shards because it was funny

[raw falcon]

turns out they weren't final

[misty wren]

seems like someone cant decide what is and isnt the final fantasy...

[brittle escarp]

He comes back for the smoke every 10 years

[thorny fjord]

True!

[runic fable]

14 is more final than at least 13 other fantasies.

[rose laurel]

Yharon is exactly like this except there's not the catch that if he wins he's gonna be the hero

[misty wren]

but less final than at least 2 other fantasies

[brittle escarp]

He gets to feel accomplished ig

[rose laurel]

If Yharon wins, all he did was enact vengeance for a long gone race

[runic fable]

Aren't they up to like, 20 now? Or am I just stupid?

[rose laurel]

16

[brittle escarp]

Would Yharon just kill everyone and then himself? Like what is the game plan

[raw falcon]

good lord yharons existence is miserable come to think of it

[brittle escarp]

At that point why not join Providence

[dusk bronze]

she's a god

[unique warren]

Lore chat in my #calamity-update-talk

[raw falcon]

because of principle cuz she's one of the people he hates

[runic fable]

Well, Providence is one of the people that Yharon wants dead.

[vivid hemlock]

yes, i agree, but yharon would know the best that his society was very much not exactly reliable to the species below them, despite being self proclaimed guardians, the surface became unlivable for much life, and then the moon lord came and showed that the dragons were weak, also killing a bunch of species like humans in the process
we only know of one instance of a dragon doing the protecting part of being a guardian, which was vetrasyl, and chrysadia kinda collapsed soon after the invasion

[raw falcon]

there are no updates with wich to talk about

[brittle escarp]

But does Yharon care

[vivid hemlock]

no

wait fuck

wrong reply

no, yharon doesnt care, and thats a flaw of his

[runic fable]

No. There is not lore discussion happening here.

[raw falcon]

actually its technically correct

[brittle escarp]

Like I feel like Yharon would double down

[raw falcon]

the best kind of correct

[fathom girder]

hello calamity lore chat

[unique warren]

Future updates

[brittle escarp]

He is even more convinced he was right and no one else deserved rights or something

[rose laurel]

But yeah Yharon is basically just Emet Selch, if Emet never had the turnaround at the end that he is ultimately the hero of his own story

[raw falcon]

question would yharon come back after he revives to slug it out with you again or would he not care?

[brittle escarp]

Basically Yharon is depressed angry and wants to drag everyone else down into oblivion with him for having the audacity to defy his race’s rule

[vivid hemlock]

the horrible hog is a fallen angel sent by god (the salesman) to trample the earth and bring about the the age of the boar, the divine swine is an angel trying to stop the evil by bringing all pigs back to heaven

[misty wren]

yharon winning is just as much of an end to the story of the dragons as him losing (i.e. dying permanently or losing his drive to continue his vengeance) is

[brittle escarp]

I think it depends if he gives up, which I doubt

[rose laurel]

And this comparison is very similar btw I'm not throwing this because they have similar hooks

Yharon really is basically just Emet if he was entirely and utterly wrong with not even a single saving grace behind his ideology

[brittle escarp]

Yharon is at a dead end. He is just really angry about that fact and is making it everyone else’s problem

[misty wren]

rather than emet being able to revive the story of his people, yharon can only try to determine the end of his peoples story

[brittle escarp]

Despite being entirely wrong, I think he is still a cool character

[vivid hemlock]

kill 7 billion people

[rose laurel]

Yeah he is

[brittle escarp]

He is understandable, if not sympathetic

[unique warren]

I can’t wait to see what they’ll do with the next boss reworks

[raw falcon]

this man is not nova

[unique warren]

I really hope they finish up like, Signus at least

[brittle escarp]

Old man who saw his entire world fall apart and is desperately clinging to a memory

[raw falcon]

well he would be if he wasn't basically hitler

[rose laurel]

Even if Yharon is a piece of shit he's still a character I really like writing, and he is ultimately tragic

[vivid hemlock]

yharon went on a worldwide genocide with his new best friend for a hundred years 🥰

[rose laurel]

That, of course, doesn't excuse his actions

[plush carbon]

i knew literally none of this about Yharon until just now

man this mod is horrible at handling its lroe

[dusk bronze]

are there plans to give yharon feats

[unique warren]

It’s peak

[brittle escarp]

Yharon would be inexcusable if every bad thing ever didn’t happen to him in a row

A 900 year slog of infinite pain and suffering and sadness

[raw falcon]

hes still inexcusable methinks

[frozen horizon]

What do you mean would be inexcusable?

[raw falcon]

again

[rose laurel]

Bro come on

[brittle escarp]

Well yeah. He is understandable I mean

[vivid hemlock]

give it time... the way its implemented rn is very much not completed

[rose laurel]

Now I'm just sad

[raw falcon]

he started a genocide

[brittle escarp]

He is objectively bad

He is not sympathetic at all

[misty wren]

his actions are understandable, not excusable

[brittle escarp]

But you can understand his mental state

[raw falcon]

he's pityable

[brittle escarp]

Exactly

[frozen horizon]

The mods plan to give the player far more information in-game than is currently available.

[raw falcon]

but not excusable

[unique warren]

I mean they’re not wrong but it’s not really anyone’s fault

Who’s in the current team, that is

[frozen horizon]

You're a lore writer, not the one who would add this stuff in-game you're fine.

[unique warren]

The lore itself is fire emoji but the gameplay does not represent it sadness emoji

[brittle escarp]

I like the more vague, cryptic lore

[rose laurel]

I'm

Literally the one who adds stuff in-game

[unique warren]

[raw falcon]

well the problem is that a certain pink man wanted the mod to be his special little masochistic bossrush mode before he got the boot, and it takes time to get this shit back to working order

[rose laurel]

Even if I don't do it directly I'm the one who says what should go in

[frozen horizon]

And anyways, lore stuff is fine being on a backburner until the mod is quite completed.

[misty wren]

no it isnt

[dusk bronze]

disagree

[rose laurel]

And like yeah I know the lore is implemented badly right now but it still feels bad to hear "man this shit sucks"

[raw falcon]

hey can we get hollowknight lore tablets /hj

[brittle escarp]

Like Draedon being a lore point is sick

[unique warren]

I think the main thing is that it’s getting better and not getting worse because of you :>

[misty wren]

lore has to be made in tandem with the rest of the mod

[young notch]

Obviously there's room for expansion and I think that's a good thing, but for what's in the game now, I don't think it's difficulty to surmise the primary story

[brittle escarp]

I think the issue isn’t a lore one at all. It’s a progression one

[young notch]

There's still a lot to be desired for certain characters tho

[brittle escarp]

Lots of bosses don’t match the lore

That’s not the lore’s fault

It’s just incomplete

[raw falcon]

to be fair, this can largely be attributed to a certain fabsolian man imo so i wouldn't take it too hard

[vivid hemlock]

this is #wholesomesauce

[runic fable]

The lore in the mod is well written and interesting, it's mainly held back by Terraria's format simply not supporting it.

[misty wren]

otherwise we're stuck with what happened right away with the rewrite where lore is made to accomodate old choices

[dusk bronze]

and also

[frozen horizon]

I would say most people would understand “Yharim start crusade. Yharim become evil. Yharim's friends leave him. Yharim leaves.”

[runic fable]

Like the lore on its on is honestly wonderful, I love it.

[unique warren]

That’s not really true, it’s just an issue of a lot of stuff being outdated

[rose laurel]

Somewhat but mostly not

[misty wren]

fabsol wasnt really that involved with lore, it can be attributed to lore being for a very long time not really a consideration when making stuff

[rose laurel]

Lore development is complicated because basically what happened is that we had a giant headstart because we were the only department not being stiffled by Fabsol, on top of just making A Lot on a very short timespan, which lead to there being a lot of stuff that couldn't be added with the admittedly barebones options we have at the moment

[vivid hemlock]

the lore is what keeps me interested in this mod despite everything else about it

[unique warren]

I think it’s just a case where (imo) the mod is currently not great and that is not at all the fault of anyone who’s currently developing the mod

[brittle escarp]

Same

[rose laurel]

The best way I can put this is that one Iron Man quote

We made Calamity Lore in a cave with a box of scraps

[unique warren]

There is just SO MUCH to fix

[brittle escarp]

Lore, build making, and sprite work are the 3 best parts imo

Music is a very close 4th

[unique warren]

I’m sorry but most of the bosses are just not very good

[dusk bronze]

why are you sorry

[vivid hemlock]

this is such a cold take...

[dusk bronze]

the bosses are straight ass

[vivid hemlock]

i HATE all of the bosses they suck!!!!!

[brittle escarp]

But the reworked bosses have been peak

[misty wren]

thats not something to be sorry about the team knows it

[brittle escarp]

So like

[rose laurel]

Antarctic Take

[runic fable]

This is generally known, and is being worked on.

[brittle escarp]

Also SCal is fun

[blazing field]

Cryogen Theme - Antarctic Reinforcement take

[unique warren]

Scal is like, B tier

[raw falcon]

shes kinda mid imo

[unique warren]

Good but not great

[runic fable]

I've mainly been playing Infernum, but I temporarily turned it off to try the new DoG and that shit is fucking wonderful.

[frozen horizon]

Build Making above Music?

[raw falcon]

brothers phase is really nice

[dusk bronze]

[raw falcon]

other than that, nah

[rose laurel]

But yeah basically this

[runic fable]

I found it a bit easy, but I just did 399 attempts of Infernum DoG, so I would take that with a grain of salt.

[dusk bronze]

it's the only part not made by fab

[vivid hemlock]

everytime ive fought a boss in this mod i questioned if i was doomed to be casted into the depths of hell

[brittle escarp]

The music is really good, but I have listened to it so much that I am more interested with tinkering with builds rn

[raw falcon]

but yeah only peak bosses atm are brain and dog

[frozen horizon]

Are you still using a box of scraps?

[unique warren]

This is true

[rose laurel]

I think the fact that we still managed to get people hooked into the story with just lore items is telling that we have something great on our hands

[polar tide]

walk into cal update talk, see people talking about character morality, immediately leave

[vivid hemlock]

brainstorm thankfully has saved 2 bosses from extinction

[unique warren]

Truth…

[rose laurel]

Nah

[unique warren]

Unfortunately, only one of those will maybe be permanent

[brittle escarp]

Idk if this makes you feel better, but I personally liked the lore enough to make it a central basis for the DnD campaign I am running lol

[unique warren]

I doubt Brain will get reworked again

[frozen horizon]

Bro we left that like 5-10 minutes ago how long did it take to type that message?

[brittle escarp]

Or at least some of the themes

[vivid hemlock]

backreading

[rose laurel]

Brain is pretty much the only Boss in Cal right now that's like

100% done

[raw falcon]

does he need another rework though?

[brittle escarp]

Brain is fun

[unique warren]

Brain? No

[vivid hemlock]

dog redesign

[rose laurel]

Might be subject to some minor changes here and there but like

Yeah

[brittle escarp]

DoG is really fun

[raw falcon]

was referring to brain

[vivid hemlock]

oh then def not

[unique warren]

He is but it’s an interim fix

[raw falcon]

ngl

[vivid hemlock]

bs dog is ultimately a way for the devs to make the boss not ass while we wait for the actual rework down the line

[raw falcon]

it'd be nice if phase one stayed largely the same and phase 2 was where he really got reworked

[brittle escarp]

Idk, I am of the opinion that the mod was good enough for me to put 2.2k hours into it when it was WAY worse than it is right now, and it is only getting better so

No complaints

I can be patient

[raw falcon]

to be fair the standard for quality was lower back then

[brittle escarp]

Fair

[unique warren]

I played way back when and I have come to the conclusion that I have much better standards now

[brittle escarp]

Idk, the atmosphere for calamity is something I can’t really find in other mods

[rose laurel]

I'm of the opinion that it was both a matter of standards being lower, and Calamity becoming worse over time

[brittle escarp]

I like it for the atmosphere and lore more than the gameplay

[unique warren]

Maybe so…

[brittle escarp]

Also the weapons are fun to use

The reworked ones anyway

[raw falcon]

true

[brittle escarp]

I love all the reworked Ranger weapons

[rose laurel]

Something people don't talk about enough is how most of the bad changes are infact much more recent

[late trellis]

Theres a whole... range... of them

Aha

Haha

[raw falcon]

idk if this is a hot take but the yharon bullet hells made the fight worse imo

[dusk bronze]

bountiful harvest

[vivid hemlock]

asgore attack

[raw falcon]

i think we all know

[unique warren]

Somewhat true but I think bosses haven’t been good for a very very long time

[raw falcon]

thats why no one says anything

because its like

common consensus

[brittle escarp]

SCal eyeball

[rose laurel]

They sure have only gotten worse with time tho

[raw falcon]

if that makes sense?

[rose laurel]

[brittle escarp]

Eye of Cthulhu got made so much worse imo pre 2.1

And they changed his revengeance theme

[plush carbon]

augh

[unique warren]

Perhaps true

[brittle escarp]

[unique warren]

Wait was bountiful harvest bad

[brittle escarp]

And skeletron got changed a million times

[rose laurel]

Yeah

[unique warren]

I can’t even remember much about it

[rose laurel]

Bountiful Harvest was the meteor that extinguished the dinossaurs

[vivid hemlock]

bh made master rev+ ai changes...

[brittle escarp]

Was that 1.5?

No that was rust and dust

When was bountiful harvest

I forgor

[vivid hemlock]

1.5 was draedon

1.4.5 was rust and dust

[brittle escarp]

Wait when was bountiful harvest

[misty wren]

bountiful harvest was 2.0.3 i think

[dusk bronze]

2.0.4

[brittle escarp]

What

That recent?

[vivid hemlock]

bh was in 2024

may 2024

[brittle escarp]

What changes came with that update?

[dusk bronze]

2.0.3 was hellish harbour

[brittle escarp]

I genuinely forget

[vivid hemlock]

the master ai changes of fabsol...

[brittle escarp]

OH THOSE

those were awful

I just avoided master mode entirely lol

[rose laurel]

Of course tho bosses weren't just the only thing that kept declining in quality over time

The myriad of QoL changes were also a great part of it

[boreal pewter]

I generally liked what I made for Bountiful Harvest, but as a whole the update was not good
also the trailer is like really bad

[vivid hemlock]

fabsol, instead of trying to improve his bosses, tried to make more shit ai for another difficulty

[rose laurel]

Like, bosses and QoL changes are ultimately the only things in Calamity that are actively bad imo

Sure the biomes are pretty bleh but like

The Sunken Sea isn't making the game worse y'know?

[brittle escarp]

I really like the astral biome

[misty wren]

they're just nothingburgers

[brittle escarp]

Great music

[raw falcon]

skeletron prime

[misty wren]

they dont do anything

[brittle escarp]

Ok enemies ig

[brittle escarp]

💀💀💀

Yeah maybe it was bad

[plush carbon]

augh

[unique warren]

Ugh there are way too many people typing here I can’t focus

[brittle escarp]

The abyss has a ton of really cool concepts

A little polish and it will be goated

[misty wren]

astral infection wont ruin the game the abyss wont ruin the game they simply wont do much of anything

[unique warren]

Have a good convo

[raw falcon]

everything about bountiful harvest was peak EXCEPT for the bosses

[vivid hemlock]

give me more avalon references or give me death

[plush carbon]

i forgot about the trailer why did you remind me

[iron tusk]

yo guys rq

how to do auric code breaker stuff?

[dusk bronze]

wrong channel

[brittle escarp]

Like the auric cooling cell?

[raw falcon]

question about the qol actualy

[iron tusk]

ye

[rose laurel]

Ultimately what made Calamity decent for a long period of its history is that it was never detrimental to have, it just added shit and even if the content was nothingburger, it was just a net neutral at worst

[raw falcon]

is there a reason for some of its removal?

[brittle escarp]

You need the ice lab schematic thing I think

[unique warren]

Actually I am coming back

[iron tusk]

already have that just, dont know the materials to do it yk?

[unique warren]

I think cal’s issues before it got worse was just the issues Vanilla had

[iron tusk]

already decrypyed etc

[young notch]

I just think sunken sea is pretty :)

[vivid hemlock]

unnecessary for gameplay and removed interaction with the game

[brittle escarp]

Throw auric bars into the guide’s crafting slot thing

[strange cargo]

Which qol

[brittle escarp]

I don’t remember the exact materials 😔

[iron tusk]

thanks twin

found it

[misty wren]

primarily recipes for vanilla items

[unique warren]

Like, mediocre bosses, boring enemies that have copy and paste AI, at times poor balance

[misty wren]

recipes for vanilla items like

so many of them just werent necessary

[brittle escarp]

Calamity has such cool concepts tho. Like if you just move some stuff around, do a few new AI’s, and like a few new weapon reworks it will be peak

[rose laurel]

But when the bosses kept deteriorating, QoL kept being added, and cross modding became more of a concern, everyone started to realize that Calamity was absurdly destructive of the base game, its main attraction was actively bad and it was absurdly hostile to other mods. By this point, Calamity lost all of the things that made it appealing to most people, and the only things that weren't active detriments to the mod were just bad

[brittle escarp]

Was that when a bunch of devs left and then Fabsol got booted?

[unique warren]

I swear, mod devs need to stop giving a fuck about cross compatibility with other mods

[misty wren]

no

[brittle escarp]

I agree

[misty wren]

this was before

[unique warren]

It does not fuckin matter

[brittle escarp]

The mod should be peak within itself first and foremost imo

[unique warren]

That is not smth you need to concern yourself with as a dev

[brittle escarp]

If it’s self balance or cross more self balance is always better I think

[hollow harness]

That type of mindset doesn't really allow collaboration between mods and modders I believe

[rose laurel]

Mod compatibility is not a matter of "hey this content overlaps with something else, maybe we should change it?" but rather the fact that Calamity actively made cross compatibility harder down to its most basic systems

[brittle escarp]

But sacrificing your own mod for cross mod compatability is rough too

[unique warren]

And that’s fine

[misty wren]

mods should focus on themselves but like

[hollow harness]

Especially because this is a modding environment not a rom patching environment

[misty wren]

you should also make sure your mod wont inherently break everything else

[unique warren]

That is just good coding more than anything lol

[brittle escarp]

As long as it doesn’t take away from the mod itself

[rose laurel]

You know how Calamity has a rampant problem with powercreep? Yeah, that's something that not only makes cross modding more difficult but was intentionally designed to be as overwhelming as possible

[misty wren]

no there is an active game design aspect to that

[brittle escarp]

I think making the mod good within itself own bounds should always be higher priority than cross modding

[raw falcon]

yeah.... post moonlord was ROUGH for crossmodding back in the day

[rose laurel]

Calamity purposefully makes its content immensely more powerful than everything else with the express purpose of eclipsing other mod's content and always be the better option in that scenario

[brittle escarp]

Even stuff like power creep. If the power creep makes the mod more balanced and fun within itself own bounds, that’s good

[brittle escarp]

Well that is a silly reason

[rose laurel]

Yeah ask Fabsol

[unique warren]

This is also just smth that is bad design in general

[brittle escarp]

But if it were to make greater gaps between bosses to encourage non boss gameplay

[rose laurel]

[brittle escarp]

That would be a good reason then

[unique warren]

Modded weapons and vanilla weapons should be smth you should choose from

[brittle escarp]

Well Fabsol is stupid and bad

I am saying that the power creep isn’t necessarily inherently bad

[unique warren]

If this is true, cross compatibility is easier by default

[rose laurel]

This is mostly the problem when I mention crossmod compatibility

[brittle escarp]

Fair

[hollow harness]

I don't think it is sacrificing I think its just making the mod better for people interested in cross mod gameplay and helps the community in general

[brittle escarp]

That’s just poor design universally

[misty wren]

a bad codebase is bad for reasons outside of making crosscompat harder because it doesnt really affect that unless something is intentionally trying to add shit or change shit using calamitys code
the issue with not caring at all about crossmod compatibility is that crossmod compatibility will always be relevant

[unique warren]

What

[plush carbon]

Yea

[brittle escarp]

As long as it isn’t at the expense of the mod (like bosses being too close together), then I am absolutely pro compatability

[rose laurel]

Not caring about crossmod compatibility is very different from being actively hostile towards it, and Calamity is very, very hostile

[brittle escarp]

Fair

[young notch]

This is exactly why I didn't like the mod back in the day. It also felt like it was spitting in the face of what made me like base Terraria so much. Got even more annoying seeing players prefer that power fantasy or even say it was better than vanilla.

[unique warren]

Yeah having a good code base is good regardless of cross compatibility

[misty wren]

allowing people to use multiple content mods at the same time is in fact a good thing and not every mod can go out of its way to change its own balance to account for other mods being active

[brittle escarp]

I can’t believe how much damage was done and how much work needs to be done to get out of the Fabsol pit

[dull heart]

my favorite part of working on roots is getting to design a good codebase for it

[hollow harness]

Like it has always been an issue with cross mod gameplay that Calamity gear overwhelmed every other mod gear by 10 to 1 and also certain coding practices were horrible

[brittle escarp]

I never knew it was this bad

[unique warren]

This is true but also like

[dull heart]

like working with roots codebase just

Feels good

[unique warren]

Sometimes it’s just a bad idea

[plush carbon]

Calamity and Thorium together shouldn't be Calamity going "FUCK you, Thorium, check MY shit out" and trying to completely eclipse it for example

[misty wren]

trying to do that still doesnt work btw ive done thorlamity thorium gear just completely eclipses calamity gear

[unique warren]

Like, I’m sorry, Souls DLC + Infernum will never and should never be a thing

[dull heart]

Thorium has more broken accessories and armor

[brittle escarp]

I still think a big thing is that bosses in calamity are too close together, so tiers don’t feel impactful and there is no reason to do half of them. Making things like cultist harder to force players to engage with intermediary tiers would be good, even if it causes power creep and less cross mod compatability

That’s still massively a net positive

[plush carbon]

O yea thorium stuff is somehow stronger

[hollow harness]

Thorium also has bard enhancements which can be a bit rough to balance (especially if you are building towards something that increases the duration of these)

[dull heart]

Cultist being harder doesn't necessarily mean there's power creep

[plush carbon]

I forgot

[dull heart]

Unless cultist being harder forces moon lord to be harder

[brittle escarp]

I shouldn’t be directly incentivized to do plant->golem->LC

[brittle escarp]

Which it would

[misty wren]

would it

[brittle escarp]

Because ML is super weak

[hollow harness]

You can pretty much buff yourself for 30 seconds an all class emblem or have extra crit or have more stats in general

[young notch]

Again I would also like to mention that this sentiment for me personally extends to vanilla as well

[brittle escarp]

ML is easier than any post golem pre LC boss that isn’t Ravager

[unique warren]

ML is not weak, just poorly designed

[raw falcon]

hes more annyoing than weak tbh

base cultist is just kind of a pushover though

[unique warren]

Souls Mod does Cultist and ML pretty well

[raw falcon]

more of a miniboss than anything

[misty wren]

moon lord should be a better boss but thats something true outside of lunatic cultist being easy or hard

[dull heart]

not really

[tribal isle]

They should’ve kept phaseslayer like this

[brittle escarp]

I just thing that bosses should be more fundamentally spread out

[young notch]

I like Moon Lord...

[rose laurel]

There's been a lot of damage control done to Vanilla to lift it back to Calamity's level but like

[brittle escarp]

I like the moon lord fight, he is just trivially easy

[rose laurel]

Still not really enough

[raw falcon]

hey question will the pillars ever get a touchup?

[unique warren]

Wdym calamity’s level?

[tribal isle]

Pillars have always been my least favorite part next to early pre hm

[young notch]

And the problem now is that we built a playerbase who doesn't like vanilla which is why Brainstorm was so controversial

[dull heart]

yeah

[rose laurel]

Yup

[brittle escarp]

All the bosses between major progression point need more time to shine. ESPECIALLY between hm and Plant, and again between golem and LC

Between plant and golem feels a lot better than those two imo

[young notch]

speaking of which oh nooooo that was so hard guyssss how could they do thisssssss

[dull heart]

Brainstorm wasn't actually that controversial it's just a super loud minority

[brittle escarp]

Phm also feels nice

[misty wren]

calamity's power level tends to be higher than vanillas

[rose laurel]

Calamity adds like 300 different things that make Vanilla weapons obsolete

Here's a fun fact

[raw falcon]

this is literally just sleeping on steroids i do not see the issue with it being changed into this

[rose laurel]

Did you know absolutely no enemy in Vanilla Terraria has unconditional DR?

[brittle escarp]

But I think the fun solution is making vanilla gear more interesting

[misty wren]

put calamity stuff into otherwise unchanged vanilla and calamity stuff will be better than vanilla stuff

[unique warren]

Well you shouldn’t be making vanilla weapons stronger

[rose laurel]

Guess what Calamity adds?

[dull heart]

this is why roots is peak... it doesn't add anything that makes vanilla obsolete...

[unique warren]

You should be making calamity weapons weaker

[brittle escarp]

Vanilla gear just is not interesting at all

Like even mechanically

[tribal isle]

Did it not do this before

[rose laurel]

Here's the problem

[raw falcon]

hell i'd argue cosmolight got better with the freeze

[brittle escarp]

Everything in vanilla is point and hold

[young notch]

I was referring to how easy it was to obtain

[raw falcon]

disagreed on some of the armors

specifically nebula

[misty wren]

no it just skipped to preset times

[brittle escarp]

Nebula is fine ig

It’s passable

[dull heart]

not as much with more recent things but yes

[dusk bronze]

roots is very cool but holy shit the vanilla early game is fucking MISERABLE

[dull heart]

vanilla is not very good at interesting item design

[misty wren]

stuff being point and hold is fine

[brittle escarp]

True, they have been making it better

[raw falcon]

almost everything in cal is point and hold too

its flashier point and hold

[brittle escarp]

Except reworked stuff

[raw falcon]

but its point and hold

[brittle escarp]

Which is peak

[rose laurel]

Do you see this?

[dull heart]

L take

[young notch]

I don't care about the weapons being mechanically interesting, this is Terraria. I just want them to coexist.

[brittle escarp]

I love the reworked stuff because it isn’t point and hold

[rose laurel]

Do you see this dumb fucking number?

[misty wren]

even reworked stuff often is

[unique warren]

Oh my god there are so many people in this chat

[dusk bronze]

you can barely move or do anything

[brittle escarp]

Like the arsenal weapons and starmada line are cool

[dull heart]

even in vanilla due to lack of mechanical diversity weapons just outshine other weapons

[hollow harness]

Vanilla early-game is slow but also kinda depends on how resourceful you are with things honestly

[unique warren]

How do y’all keep up with this shit

[dusk bronze]

until you get spectre boots

[brittle escarp]

Ontological despoiler requiring switching modes

[raw falcon]

I genuinely can't think of any weapons wich aren't aside from like. The Buzzkill/Superradiant?

[hollow harness]

Like if you can get bombs early and use them on pretty much everything its gets so much easier

Best mining tool ever

[young notch]

Be that as it may why do we feel like nerfing a lot of post plantera vanilla weapons will help anything

[raw falcon]

It's you either hold left click or you hold right click

[brittle escarp]

A lot of arsenal stuff, ontological despoiler and its line, starmada and its line, that kinda stuff

[unique warren]

Yeah I’m leaving until chat isn’t as busy

[raw falcon]

there isn't anything wrong with that

[brittle escarp]

The weapons that need more engagement or timing or whatever

[unique warren]

Ts is lame

[raw falcon]

but still

[raw falcon]

yeah thats fair

[rose laurel]

It doesn't exist in Vanilla Terraria at all

[dull heart]

to name a few

Wulfrum Knife
Molten Amputator
Nanoblack Reaper
Gilded Proboscis
Mirror Blade
The entire stratus set
Much of arsenal weapons

[brittle escarp]

Also super radiant is my second favorite weapon in the mod

[dull heart]

Oh and Burning Revelation of course

[rose laurel]

Bosses in Vanilla do not have Damage Resistance, but every Boss in Calamity does

[brittle escarp]

I wish more weapons were like it

[dull heart]

"like it" how

[raw falcon]

fair

[brittle escarp]

Oh and the stratus set

[raw falcon]

i just want to say that point and hold wasn't a criticism

[rose laurel]

This means that weapons have to be stronger because of this completely arbitrary number addition

[young notch]

Pumpkin Moon, Frost Moon, and Old One's Army are events I really REALLY enjoy and I wish there was more reason to do them in Calamity outside of a material that you can only unlock after defeating a boss that comes way fucking later than the events are available

[brittle escarp]

Like more mechanically interesting. More focused on unique gimmicks and gameplay. More weapons that change how I approach the boss

[raw falcon]

i just think the vast majority of weapons ARE point and hold

[dull heart]

Yeah point and hold is not inherently bad

[brittle escarp]

Agreed

[dull heart]

yeah they are

[raw falcon]

yeah there's nothing wrong with that

[brittle escarp]

As long as the point and hold has something else interesting going on

[dull heart]

Point and hold can have unique and interesting gameplay

[brittle escarp]

I don’t want 1 billion minishark clones

That’s my only thing

That was my issue in vanilla

[dull heart]

Such as Sanguine Flare or Charged Blaster Cannon or Last Prism

[unique warren]

It’s an issue of vanilla not having class identity and it’s not like calamity fixes thatttt

[raw falcon]

I fucking love the flak kraken

[misty wren]

im not a huge fan of vanilla because it feels a lot like most of your build is solely focused on movement
base vanilla movement is so fucking atrocious that, especially earlygame i find myself nearly exclusively using movement items

[raw falcon]

conceptually

[brittle escarp]

I wish it was just stronger 😔

[unique warren]

Is it tho

[urban cloak]

the items you get from those events when you initially unlock them are still pretty good and reliable though

[brittle escarp]

Also even like reworked Leviatitan

It’s interesting how

It has unique gimmicks

[dull heart]

I probably should give roots a bit of a base movement speed buff

[unique warren]

Movement is not the issue the game has

[brittle escarp]

Or holofibre immolator

[dull heart]

Not nearly as intense as calamity

[raw falcon]

its really not

[dull heart]

but maybe not

[unique warren]

Yeah base vanilla movement is fine

[urban cloak]

granted its been ages since ive cared for ooa but pumpkin moon and frost moon usually always have some sort of value in calamity from my experience

[brittle escarp]

Playing vanilla without the calamity speed increase feels like being lobotomized

[unique warren]

Calamity overdoes it actually

[raw falcon]

you don't need snappy movement in vanilla

[unique warren]

Default dash AND default fast fall

[raw falcon]

and even if you do, magiluminescence got you covered

[dull heart]

There's plenty of reason to do those

[brittle escarp]

It’s actually bad enough I just don’t play pure vanilla

[unique warren]

Yeah moons have really good shit lol

[dull heart]

I HATE default fast fall

[brittle escarp]

I really like it 😔

[dull heart]

it's such a strong movement creep

[unique warren]

I’m glad we can agree on THAT at least

[young notch]

Are the moon weapons still good? I just saw that calam nerfed most of them :p

[brittle escarp]

I think movement is almost always good tho

[raw falcon]

Im pretty sure OOA Tier3 is really really fucking good

[urban cloak]

the moon weapons are absolutely still good

[dull heart]

default dash I don't hate but do think wasn't an improvement

[boreal pewter]

next up, default platform instafall

[brittle escarp]

The bosses can be made more complicated to match

[young notch]

Poggers then

[brittle escarp]

It allows more room for complicated and interesting bosses

[unique warren]

Yeah get rid of default fastfall please

[dull heart]

Yes, and OOA gear is all still busted

[hollow harness]

default dash is silly because the motive for it was for EoC gameplay but it did kinda backfire honestly

[raw falcon]

Default dash feels obtuse almost? Like. It has no real reason to exist

[misty wren]

vanilla just feels atrocious to move around
it isnt until endgame where i have access to fucking soaring insignia that i dont feel like im moving through molasses

[brittle escarp]

Yeah

[raw falcon]

You almost never actually need it

[strange cargo]

Spooky armor is what I use to beat ml, and either dark harvest or morningstar

[unique warren]

WHY IS EVERYONE WHO HATES DEFAULT DASH HERE NOW

[raw falcon]

i don't hate it

[brittle escarp]

I think default dash, fast fall, and base move upgrades are all baller

[unique warren]

Where tf we’re y’all when I was talking about why I hate it

[brittle escarp]

I will die on this hill

[raw falcon]

i just don't think it needs to be tjere?

[strange cargo]

Default dash is kinda just a nothing burger

[misty wren]

i think default dash is a good thing

[urban cloak]

i dont think anyone has outright said they hated it atm

well besides you shush

[brittle escarp]

It prevents you from needing a dash accessory to engage with the mod

[rose laurel]

It's the least offensive of the three and like I don't mind it

[hollow harness]

The thing with it is that it gives you instant acceleration for things which in vanilla movement you have to use maglum or use a dash (which now they kinda fucked it up with chillet mount but oughhh)

[misty wren]

chillet mount is just broken

[brittle escarp]

Which is good

[rose laurel]

Mountcreep is real

[brittle escarp]

More accessory slots is good because more build variety

[raw falcon]

for quick turnarounds right?

[brittle escarp]

Yeah

[lapis oak]

"everyone" (4 people and it's not even on hate level)

[misty wren]

because not only is it a dash its a fucking ramdash

[dull heart]

vanilla 1.4.5 powercrept so hard

[raw falcon]

You don't really need to do that all that often admittedly

[hollow harness]

Chillet is so fucked rn and its very accessible since the start of the game

[brittle escarp]

I strongly disagree

[urban cloak]

how easy is it to get chillet again?

[raw falcon]

like

[dull heart]

Chillet is not super common

[misty wren]

fishing or you can find it while mining

[urban cloak]

i dont think i encountered it when i played through 1.4.5 with some friends

[raw falcon]

just holding the other way often time suffices

[dull heart]

But it's pre boss just randomly underground

[hollow harness]

Chillet can appear everywhere underground I think but its not that common

[brittle escarp]

What is Chillet?

[rose laurel]

This is lowkey the only thing I'm ??? about Vanilla balancing like what the fuck were they smoking when they made the mounts

[unique warren]

Okay yeah I get it can we stop being super nitpicky god

[brittle escarp]

It that’s not very responsive

[raw falcon]

palworld crossover

[rose laurel]

Vanilla mounts are fucking ludicrous

[brittle escarp]

Oh

[raw falcon]

yeah sure but it suffices

[brittle escarp]

Haven’t played 1.4.5 yet

[brittle escarp]

I guess

[hollow harness]

You shoul

[raw falcon]

it does the job

[dusk bronze]

golf cart

[brittle escarp]

But why make things less fun

[boreal pewter]

guys my gun is too heavy, help

[brittle escarp]

Peak

[rose laurel]

And that's like

[raw falcon]

also you're realistically just gonna run either a scarf or a ram dash so

[brittle escarp]

Idk, I am very very strongly in favor of more base movement

[rose laurel]

Not even top 5 biggest offenders

[lapis oak]

I don't recognize the sprite...

[brittle escarp]

Like more than basically anything else

[rose laurel]

[hollow harness]

Early in 1.4 the most fucked mount was the pirate ship one

[urban cloak]

i was just pointing it out? sorry if it sounded rude

[dull heart]

It causes the major issue of movement powercreep to make movement gear still worth using

[unique warren]

Sorry it’s just that like you and two other people did it at the same time 😭

[brittle escarp]

I still use movement gear

Like a lot

[hollow harness]

It had incredible movement compared to anything else at that stage is was broken

[brittle escarp]

I love being speedy

[dull heart]

Like calamity has super bad movement powercreep right now

[rose laurel]

Slime Mount is the devil

[brittle escarp]

The only time in the entire game I feel too fast is for SCal

[misty wren]

ok to be fair golf cart is also post skeletron

[brittle escarp]

At any other point I think it’s good

[dull heart]

you move way, way too fast in calamity for the good of most bosses

[dusk bronze]

please don't nerf movement

[unique warren]

Hard agree

[hollow harness]

Golf Cart also requires you to do Golf gameplay for right doesn't it

[frozen horizon]

Default dash is so peak, I get to change directions without losing all my momentum.

[dusk bronze]

vanilla is unbearable

[dull heart]

It leads to rungodding being the best strategy for 90% of bosses

[unique warren]

Please do lmfao

[misty wren]

yeah

[brittle escarp]

Yeah

[raw falcon]

thats the revolver

[brittle escarp]

Just make the bosses faster

[dull heart]

the issue is that undoing the movement buffs is a terrible idea

[amber egret]

may i be subjective and say that rungodding is a cause of the boss design, not the player design

[dull heart]

This is a very bad solution

[brittle escarp]

Like the twins require high speed to not get jumped

[dusk bronze]

yeah

[dull heart]

there is a limited amount of screen space

[cobalt wharf]

this isn’t the cause of the movement creep itself but just the bosses themself

[hollow harness]

Yeah this is like, compared to other mounts its not as bad

[dull heart]

it is a case of both

[unique warren]

People would dislike it but honestly sometimes devs gotta learn to make hard decisions for the sake of the mod 😭

[rose laurel]

My brother in Christ that's just the number issues again but different

[amber egret]

Providence is a socially "pretty alright boss" because they force you to be at least close to Providence and at least do a little dodging

[raw falcon]

except you do, because dashes are momentum capped

[cobalt wharf]

most calamity bosses copy pasted into vanilla would still be rungodable

[raw falcon]

so if you go faster than that you're shit outta luck

[dull heart]

the bosses don't discourage movement plus movement is way stronger than it should be

[unique warren]

Yeah I’m sorry movement should be nerfed

[frozen horizon]

If you change direction and instantly dash you go to max velocity.

[dull heart]

yes, but the stronger movement is the easier it is to do so

[amber egret]

if you have burden breakre or if you have Snotted it dont really matter, providence will still have their "arena"

[brittle escarp]

I think survivability in general is too strong

[dull heart]

Rungod isn't an on/off switch

[raw falcon]

max dash velocity

[brittle escarp]

Movement would be balanced if tanking wasn’t so easy

[raw falcon]

if you have sufficient movespeed your running speed is actually faster than the default dash

[dull heart]

Your default dash velocity is your max movement speed

in most cases

[raw falcon]

its not hard to do either

[amber egret]

personally i feel like having the bosses either be in a little arena or physically MAKE the arena themselves during the fight is a good idea

[frozen horizon]

It's great up until some time after eye of Cthulhu, by which time you have real dash.

[rose laurel]

I am of the opinion that movement speed at the moment is way too much but we don't need to entirely take away everything

[amber egret]

but, again, Slippery Slope

[brittle escarp]

But then it’s never worth it to run any mobility at all

[hollow harness]

I dislike the default dash because it allows you to get instant acceleration without the need of sacrificing an accessory

[brittle escarp]

I run no mobility other than wings for SCal for that reason

That’s boring tho

[amber egret]

in some cases you might not want boots

[unique warren]

Hard agree

[amber egret]

or MOAB

[brittle escarp]

I don’t run boots

Ever

[amber egret]

i run boots

[dull heart]

I think we need to

• bring base movement speed buff from 1.5x to +25%
• make wings + boots not double scale with speed or revert their behavior to vanilla

[amber egret]

up until like.

yharon

[dull heart]

for someone who loves to build movement this is odd

[amber egret]

i like quick aerial movement

[brittle escarp]

Boots are just never necessary at any point

[unique warren]

1.5x????

[cobalt wharf]

im not too mad at the default dash but it should be rev exclusive imo

[hollow harness]

Prior to brainstorm I did a pt without the need of using a dash accessory because the instant acceleration is so powerful for most scenarios

[unique warren]

What were they THINKING?

[brittle escarp]

I like flight acceleration

And fall speed

[cobalt wharf]

well no it’s +50%

[strange cargo]

I cant wait until roller skates

[dull heart]

... Okay?

[amber egret]

✨oldlamity✨

[dull heart]

No it's 1.5x

[brittle escarp]

So I don’t need boots

[strange cargo]

I hope they arent terrible

[dull heart]

as of 2.1

[cobalt wharf]

oh,

[brittle escarp]

Boots are only run speed

[hollow harness]

I only picked one in the end because of the asgard valor line having ankh and also the other agregated stats that made it strong

[brittle escarp]

I’m not on the ground

[amber egret]

roller skates i think arent gonna be as incredible as people think

solely because its fuckier ice physics for turning To My Knowledge

you have to skid then turn

instead of on the dime

[dull heart]

This is false

[brittle escarp]

Jump and then dash

[brittle escarp]

Wait what

[unique warren]

Vanilla base movement is fine btw

[dull heart]

Boots give horizontal accel even in the air

And run speed boosts wing top speed

[cobalt wharf]

no it’s instant increased acceleration

[brittle escarp]

I thought it was “running acceleration”

what

[dull heart]

Boots cause wings to get double the amount of effect from movement speed bonuses

[cobalt wharf]

like that’s what roller skates should be but they didn’t make it do that lol

[unique warren]

Don’t like it? Get a hook, boots, or a double jump, or literally anything

[dull heart]

In terms of top speed

[rose laurel]

Idk I think this is a bit unrealistic for most people, I don't use dashes for the momentum redirection, I use them because y'know, they're dashes

[cobalt wharf]

all it does is not make momentum slow down when you release the movement keys

[brittle escarp]

But it is a whole accessory slot

[dull heart]

Well, there's conditions to this

[strange cargo]

I thought roller skates just kept your speed

[cobalt wharf]

but if you turn left to right you accelerate faster than normal

[amber egret]

its fine since most of the bosses dont really care abt movement ai

or have more than a vanilla enemy ai

[brittle escarp]

If you don’t use boots the movement is really good

Like well balanced

[dull heart]

yeah but it's

• much more flight time
• more top speed and better scaling with movement speed stat
• better accel

[brittle escarp]

Boots might make it too much

[hollow harness]

The thing with default dash that concerns me its that the intention behind it was for EoC in all difficulties but it backfired as a general mechanic

[unique warren]

Not really…?

[polar tide]

can someone give me the chart of brainstorm weapon reworks please

[dull heart]

pins has it I think

[brittle escarp]

I mean rn

[unique warren]

It’s in pins still

[polar tide]

no it isnt

[brittle escarp]

The movement feels great without boots

[cobalt wharf]

vanilla movement is fine. the only buff i can get behind is something to make grounded speed not abhorrent without hermes boots, but the current cal buffs in that regard overextend

[unique warren]

Oh you mean in cal probably yeah

[polar tide]

unless i missed it

[hollow harness]

Well not all because Classic EoC you do not need a dash but for Expert and above it makes the bossfight incredibly easy

[brittle escarp]

Running boots too might lead to too much speed

[urban cloak]

twas unpinned

[unique warren]

I think vanilla movement is 100% fine

[strange cargo]

Put it back!

This is tyranny

[amber egret]

oh whered it go

what the heck

idk go check the uh

wiki

[brittle escarp]

Vanilla movement actually feels like I got my Achilles tendons ripped out by hand

[urban cloak]

i was cleaning up brainstorm-specific pins because a month had passed last week

[rose laurel]

Idk where you heard this btw afaik the intention was always because Fabsol wanted movement to not be annoying lmao

[strange cargo]

🍅

[dull heart]

This is mostly just because you're used to calamity tbh

[lapis oak]

you can just ask me

[polar tide]

thank u

[hollow harness]

Idk but it always seemed to me that it was just exactly for that

[unique warren]

Movement has never been particularly annoying

[amber egret]

how does adding an instant "go to max movespeed" button fix movement being annoying

[brittle escarp]

Well I am used to calamity because I avoid vanilla because of the movement

[dull heart]

like if calamity never added base movement buffs

it would never have been a problem

[unique warren]

Like, vanilla movement is fine

Even without dashes

[dull heart]

But it's the type of thing that's really really really hard to go back on

[brittle escarp]

I still use swiftness potions and sunflowers and stuff

[rose laurel]

I remember the day in Dev we just said "Fabsol basically drugged the entire Calamity community with the QoL shit" and it's so true

[brittle escarp]

Even for start of game cal

[cobalt wharf]

nobody ever complained about vanilla movement speed until calamity did speed buffs is the thing

[dull heart]

^

[hollow harness]

Once the flies are trapped into the bottle, they cannot escape anymore

[brittle escarp]

I still thought it was slow

[hollow harness]

They are conditioned

[brittle escarp]

That’s why I liked magiluminescense so much

Even when it dropped in vanilla

[unique warren]

Yeah and I think calamity needs to make the hard decision to revert those changes

[brittle escarp]

Or I would use mounts

Because vanilla movement speed sucks

[cobalt wharf]

that’s acceleration which is different

[brittle escarp]

Still movement

Just not top speed

[cobalt wharf]

the acceleration issue is a different thingy

[brittle escarp]

Which is also bad

[amber egret]

add a difficulty that removes all qol baked into the game called DIY mode

[cobalt wharf]

since in vanilla you invalidate it by getting shied of cthulhu or magi

so it’s in a weird spot

[unique warren]

I get it, people wouldn’t LIKE those changes, but sometimes you gotta make unpopular changes if they’re for the better

[dull heart]

I do think if cal killed base movement speed buffs and left a base accel buff

[strange cargo]

Once I get hermes boots or a mount its fine, but before that in vanilla I feel weak

[dull heart]

That would be good

[brittle escarp]

But the point is to be fun

[dull heart]

no top speed buffs but the accel exists

[brittle escarp]

If I wanted to be slow I would play dark souls

[amber egret]

remove friction

[unique warren]

Totally unrelated but ok

[cobalt wharf]

no matter what happens, any base stat buffs should be rev only i think

[rose laurel]

I guess fastfall is gonna go anyways and then the last head of the hydra is the default dash

[brittle escarp]

I just mean in general terraria shouldn’t be a slow game

[cobalt wharf]

you can’t justify them outside of rev now that cal doesn’t change non rev bosses anymore

[unique warren]

And it isn’t.

[dull heart]

it's very very much too early to say that

[amber egret]

wait Cal has a fast fall ??

[hollow harness]

yea

[unique warren]

For some fucking reason

[brittle escarp]

It is in vanilla

[urban cloak]

most don't know it does but yea

[unique warren]

It is not lol

[rose laurel]

Fair but like idk no one mentioned a thing about fastfall so

[hollow harness]

Just press the down key and you get the max fall speed instantly

[urban cloak]

^

[dull heart]

I have seen devs before say they like fastfall

[amber egret]

why not just have it accelerate to max faster or whatever

[rose laurel]

Fair enough

[dull heart]

I actually nerfed the fastfall in 2.1! Fun fact

[cobalt wharf]

do people genuinely use fastfall for anything other than falling through platforms faster

[strange cargo]

Hellavator

[dull heart]

I do

[brittle escarp]

Yes

Bosses and hellevator

[amber egret]

oh

actually

random thing

Im Not Insane

[dull heart]

it's a very strong tool for precision control

[rose laurel]

The thing with fastfall is that it lowkey accomplishes jack shit because of the Slime Mount lmao

[cobalt wharf]

i do think it falls into movement creep with platforms specifically but it’s not a big deal since you can also just have less platforms anyways

[amber egret]

if i move fast enough diagonally through a platform, i instafall

[dull heart]

this is just not true

[amber egret]

is that intended

[strange cargo]

I thought I was going insane

[rose laurel]

You can get that so early and no mount is ever as valuable besides the Chillet

[brittle escarp]

More responsive and intuitive

[unique warren]

I think a slight movement speed buff is fine to keep, you can keep default dash I GUESS, but get rid of everything else

[dull heart]

fastfall key and slime mount are like

[strange cargo]

Slime mount seems so much faster at falling than anything base can give

[dull heart]

not the same thing

[cobalt wharf]

it’s funny how much of slime mount talk is a cal player perspective

[strange cargo]

It and aerialite

[brittle escarp]

I far prefer fast fall to slime mount

[dull heart]

Does slime even change your fall accel

[pulsar cobalt]

fastfall increases accel while slime mount increases top speed

[brittle escarp]

Like by so much

[pulsar cobalt]

i dont know actually

[rose laurel]

This is true tho

[unique warren]

Because it gives no reason to use slime mount