calamity-update-talk

[brittle escarp]

I just remember it used to be excellent for skeleton

[pulsar cobalt]

why is doze doing it too,,,

[vivid hemlock]

A-PLS

[brittle escarp]

But my baby the star cannon is finally not awful again 🙏

It’s so nice

[pulsar cobalt]

pulse rifle

[vivid hemlock]

auric pulse

[brittle escarp]

The pulse rifle is a lot better for farming, but worse for bosses imo

[pulsar cobalt]

also why is pulse pistols homing like that

[brittle escarp]

Like than it used to be

[pulsar cobalt]

it literally can target off screen enemies

[brittle escarp]

It’s so nice

[pulsar cobalt]

and go thru blocks

[brittle escarp]

You can effectively set up auto farms because normal enemies use up so little of its damage

[pulsar cobalt]

its its literally only post evils 2

[brittle escarp]

You just fire it a few times every few minutes

[hard copper]

Would be funny if P-TSL was instead P-STL though so it sounds like pistol

[brittle escarp]

Wait I thought you meant pulse rifle

[pulsar cobalt]

there are plenty of post plant weapons that cant even do that

[fierce hearth]

God I'm having so much fun with the new oathsword line

[lapis oak]

Pulse Pistol vs Auger

it's literally so sad

[main estuary]

who came up with current cultist

[lapis oak]

Auger gets cucked by literally 1 block off the side

[main estuary]

ancient light is genuinely gut shredding

[fierce hearth]

Lmao

Just try harder

For some god forsaken reason I wanna fight an upcoming boss as summoner but I don't know which

Maybe I should flood my arena and fight deus as summoner

[lapis oak]

did u box up your arena 😭

[pulsar cobalt]

meanwhile olc just doesnt give a shit lol

[fierce hearth]

Not yet!

I've boxed arenas before

It's time consuming but iunno it's cute

Alternatively, I could flood the vernal pass and fight PBG as summoner

That seems less time consuming

[frozen thistle]

What class got most reworks in 2.1?

[fierce hearth]

Honestly that sounds more appealing, PBG spends more time on-screen than Deus

[brittle escarp]

Does water still really slow down Yharon?

[brittle escarp]

True melee?

Probably?

[fierce hearth]

I've heard Ranged, but all got a lot

[brittle escarp]

Ranger got borderline overhauled at most progression points

Every weapon is different now, different accessories are good, there is even a new Halo armor that’s really good

[fierce hearth]

Halo armor has been around for a while

But it got changes

[frozen thistle]

It's time for only true melee playthrough

[frozen thistle]

Except ranged

[fierce hearth]

[brittle escarp]

That’s what I am doing

True melee

[fierce hearth]

Y'all are masochists

[brittle escarp]

The hardest part is hitting some of the bosses

I tried skeleton prime and my sword was too short 😞

Destroyer is ez tho

Comet quasher is goated

[frozen thistle]

And try malice mode for the first time

[brittle escarp]

Nah I’m not that crazy. I am going to stick to death mode thank you

[fierce hearth]

Uhhhhhmmm comet quasher summons projectiles not true melee 🤡

[brittle escarp]

😞 im ruined

Run over

Pitching myself into the sun as we speak

[fierce hearth]

True melee is a joke at this point, basically everything summons projectiles

[brittle escarp]

Yeah but you can’t summon projectiles initially

[lyric trellis]

Every true melee weapon needs to summon zero projectiles and if it does then your game gets deleted

[pulsar cobalt]

burning sky isnt a melee weapon !!!

(meanwhile literally no one ever used its melee hitbox)

[brittle escarp]

Every single true melee weapon is now the iron broadsword

The damage doesn’t even change

It’s just the iron broadsword

[brittle escarp]

It has a melee hitbox?

[pulsar cobalt]

used to

[fierce hearth]

Took it away

Bring it back

[pulsar cobalt]

then it got removed in 1.5 i think idk i didnt play back then

[brittle escarp]

Isn’t it the thing that’s a magic weapon pretending to be melee

[pulsar cobalt]

anything before version 2.0 is like an enigma to me

[frozen thistle]

I want to try it now

Never played malice

[pulsar cobalt]

yes it used to be swung instead of simply held out

[frozen thistle]

And only true melee too

[grave geyser]

did you know that the jelly bean mount used to give 70 defense while mounted?

[fierce hearth]

Rework it so it's inspired by Yharon's behavior more closely by making it do a spin that summons fireballs idk

[pulsar cobalt]

what the fuck.

[grave geyser]

we already have a wepaon that does that

[fierce hearth]

Blow that one up

[grave geyser]

lol?

anyway its called the burning sky not the burning spin

[fierce hearth]

I forgot the other melee weapon already does that

Burning Sky can just go away

Bad idea !

[pulsar cobalt]

we should keep burning sky like how it is now forever

[grave geyser]

burning sky is peak though

[pulsar cobalt]

mechanically i mean

[grave geyser]

exactly

[pulsar cobalt]

it can get visual changes if it wants to

[grave geyser]

actually no

make it cost mana

[fierce hearth]

LMAO

[grave geyser]

and get ranger reforges

[pulsar cobalt]

@doze roots mention i think

give it a stealth strike too

[grave geyser]

true

[pulsar cobalt]

and a tag

[grave geyser]

EXACTLY

[fierce hearth]

What if it was a lance that you dashed with and you spawned fireball eruptions behind you during the dash like Yharon does in phase 2

[grave geyser]

eeriely similar to exoblade

[main estuary]

is death lunatic built on ancient light telefragging

if so
we should arrest his ass

[brittle escarp]

Does the exo blade still just fire the little silver bullets?

Last time I used exo blade was like pre 1.5

1.2 maybe?

I don’t rember

Back when it was silver

[fierce hearth]

It's very different now

[brittle escarp]

Yeah 1.2.3

[dull heart]

2.1.2 has fixed 6 second yharon

so have fun while you can

[brittle escarp]

?

6 second yharon?

[fierce hearth]

Does he just leave?

[dull heart]

Feral Bobber + Bloodworm on Devourer of Cods

[dull heart]

no

[fierce hearth]

LMAO

[dull heart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/406493898341613568/1473867414436315357/Terraria__Now_with_more_ducks_2026-02-18_20-22-25.mp4?ex=6997c57e&is=699673fe&hm=9030630887f6315c426e79f5d38cce377c213eb2640c59e6099c0ab778f50355&

[fierce hearth]

HOLY SHIT

[deep bough]

oh hell nah

[main estuary]

this is scarier than the hundreds of spores from death plantera 😨

alongside the telefrag shotgun stunt that lunatic pulls on the same mode 😱

[fierce hearth]

Are you capping feral bobbers damage or making it so that bloodworm's fishing power is no longer literally that high

[grave geyser]

did you not see the video they sent

[fierce hearth]

Oh

Wait

THAT'S THE NERF?

That can't be, bc it still did the damage

Allowing you to instakill yharon at the cost of summoning 10 old dukes isn't right

[grave geyser]

you didnt instakill before

it just died really fast

also it unhooked when the ods spawned

[fierce hearth]

Hmmmm

[grave geyser]

meaning every time you attack you'll be spawning another 10 ods

[dusk bronze]

why fix it, it's funny, niche and super impractical

[grave geyser]

its not impractical at all

he just dies

[dull heart]

it was not impractical

[dusk bronze]

you have to fight 10 old dukes

[grave geyser]

you didnt

[dull heart]

not currently

[dusk bronze]

ic

[fathom girder]

Old duke gets pissed off that you're playing with its food

and punishes you for it

[pulsar cobalt]

cant wait for someone to send a bug report about this

[fathom girder]

I'm gonna use that video and post a bug report about it

"Why is old duke spawning outside of the water"

[brittle escarp]

What class has the best TTK for SCal?

Assuming the defeat of exo mechs

[grave geyser]

fishing rod

[brittle escarp]

Also not including fishing rod

[fathom girder]

I think mage?

[brittle escarp]

Wait that’s probably not even true because all the Old Dukes

They would just kill you

[grave geyser]

they dont spawn

[brittle escarp]

?

[grave geyser]

the thing in the video does not happen in live version

[brittle escarp]

Wait what weapon

[brittle escarp]

Oh I see

That’s the fix

[fathom girder]

I used the uhhhhhhhh

oh shit what's it called

aetherflux

[grave geyser]

doubt it

[fathom girder]

with chaos stone

though it wasn't very quick it was noticeably easy with the chaos stone setup

[grave geyser]

aetherflux is good but I doubt its beating optimized summoner

[fathom girder]

Oh yeah no it's probably not

[grave geyser]

allthough...
kalei isnt stupid anymore and mirror got nerfed hard

[brittle escarp]

Ok also ignoring summoner because summoner is going to be taken out back and shot once it actually gets balanced around whips

[fathom girder]

I'm very biased towards mage rn because it's the only run I've fully finished

chaos stone mage specifically

[wise bolt]

stomp

[fathom girder]

hi

[wise bolt]

check out this bug

[fathom girder]

bug???

[wise bolt]

[fathom girder]

BUG

[wise bolt]

yea

[dusk bronze]

peak

[brittle escarp]

YO

[fathom girder]

peak buge

[wise bolt]

hes so awesome

ok have a good conversation

[fathom girder]

yeag

Oh actually my scal kill was multiclass

[grim pecan]

consumable

[fathom girder]

using fearmonger, DoG summon

uh

aetherflux

yeah

[brittle escarp]

But yeah, I have to assume summoner is getting nerfed to HELL once they finally get to balancing whips and stuff in the 1.4.5 port

[fathom girder]

kinda

[brittle escarp]

Rn it’s way too strong, no?

[fathom girder]

current summoner is balanced without whips in mind

what's gonna happen when summoner rebalance happens is simple

[brittle escarp]

Right but whips exist, which is why it’s so crazy

[deft lily]

😔

[fathom girder]

The whips will be factored in and summons as a whole will be nerfed to compensate

[brittle escarp]

Also it can use things like the mech in addition to weapons

[fathom girder]

cal whips will likely mimic how vanilla whips are in 1.4.5

[brittle escarp]

And it has the most damage accessories

[grave geyser]

incredibly bold to assume summoner rebalance will be in 1.4.5 port

[fathom girder]

because 1.4.5 whips are balanced rn

at least they are fundamentally not flawed in their design anymore

the power will still be very high because it's a glass cannon class

[grave geyser]

probably melee then
orderbringer is really dumb

[fathom girder]

but it won't quite be fundamentally broken like it is now

It will nerf multiclass ofc

like fearmonger setups will be worse if you aren't whip swapping alongside the rest of your kit

but given how vanilla summoner now has whips as a functional mainstay addition to the kit as opposed to a "swap and forget" buff stick

[grave geyser]

if summon penalty dies I doubt multiclass will be affected much

[fathom girder]

I assume cal whips will follow that philosophy

which means even swapping off the whip won't be exactly effective

[brittle escarp]

I just am not sure why summoner is the “glass cannon” class, when it should be the “low, consistent DPS that allows you to focus on dodging class” and let mage be the glass canon burst damage, with true melee taking it even further

[grave geyser]

summoner isnt the glass cannon class

summoner is the cannon clas

[brittle escarp]

Then ranger is based on accuracy and ammo swapping and stuff, and main melee is super tanky but low damage

[grave geyser]

there is no glass

[brittle escarp]

Like that makes more sense to me

[grave geyser]

realistically though class distinctions are dumb anyway and the less they exist the better

[fathom girder]

fair

[brittle escarp]

How so? It’s a lot easier to balance this way

And better to have unique identities

[fathom girder]

it's hard to do it well and leads to less interesting setups

[gloomy grove]

the identity should lie in the playstyle not how much damage it dishes out imo

[fathom girder]

fearmonger for example

lole

[grave geyser]

playstyle should not be inherently tied to a damage type
hyperaggro summoner, glass cannon melee, tank mage, are all things that can and should continue to exist

[gloomy grove]

we are contradicting each other lets blow ourselves up

[grave geyser]

unique class identities is not better
in fact I would argue that it is worse for the game overall

[brittle escarp]

Like if it were me, I would do
Melee: physically fast, high regen and defense and damage reduction, low damage
True melee: same but inconsistent, high damage
Ranger: medium high, consistent damage based off of accuracy w/o much homing, decent defense
Mage: good burst but low sustain, high dps, lower armor and more resource conservation
Summoner: low defense and low damage, but extremely consistent and can divert 100% of attention to dodging

[gloomy grove]

why does your damage have to be tied to your class

[brittle escarp]

Instead of ranger, ranger with mana, ranger with sword, and then melee with goons

[grave geyser]

^^^

[brittle escarp]

To balance the defense

[grave geyser]

defense is not nearly different enough for this to matter

[gloomy grove]

the difference between classes should be playstyle, not how much damage you deal

[brittle escarp]

Then I would widen that gulf

[still cobalt]

Ive always hated the idea of summoner being a low damage class and you should just dodge the entire time

[brittle escarp]

Personally

[unique warren]

This is absolutely something that past me would have agreed with and that means you are absolutely onto something

[grave geyser]

no.
absolutely not.

[brittle escarp]

But it’s much easier to dodge when you don’t have to be directly inside the boss

Like melee needs the defense to function

Also, the only melee should be true melee

[steep path]

just got xyk's blessing - will they ever make it so you can turn off the armor and just have the wings 👀

[brittle escarp]

If you want magic projectiles at a range, just play mage

[unique warren]

This is a restrictive mindset

[brittle escarp]

There is a class for that

[gloomy grove]

afaik theyve said no

[grave geyser]

genuenely awful take

[steep path]

sad...

[pulsar cobalt]

no it doesnt

[fathom girder]

melee can go two ways

even vanilla explored this idea with the valhalla and monk sets

[brittle escarp]

But otherwise it’s just a soup of loosely connected armor and weapons, damage types don’t matter, you get less unique accessories and experiences, and you may be forced into a playstyle you don’t like at a certain progression point

[fathom girder]

monk is a dps melee setup

and valhalla is a melee tank setup

[unique warren]

Melee should mean that close range = better, not that you have to be true melee

[grave geyser]

damage types still matter because a weapons damage type determines what it pairs well with

[brittle escarp]

Just play mage then

Like that class exists already

Why use the sword that is a staff but with no mana

[grave geyser]

not every mage weapon is long range homing bullshit

[unique warren]

I feel like at this point I should probably point to my idea for class distinction

[lyric trellis]

Hex doll should be true melee

[brittle escarp]

Not if you get rid of the class distinction. Then class unique accessories like the gauntlet go out the window

[grave geyser]

my favorite weapon in the entire game is medusa head, a mage weapon that has range more akin to a true melee
under your idea of what classes should be, weapons like that would not exist

[fathom girder]

I love how this is devolving into Roots

roots truly is the end all be all for perfect design

[brittle escarp]

Just give it more range and sure, magic weapon

[acoustic talon]

im loving the new sun staff line so far lol

[still cobalt]

Roots is the end all be all of bad design /j

[acoustic talon]

Way cooler than before

[still cobalt]

Woah thats cool

[brittle escarp]

Ooh

[still cobalt]

I havent got to play summoner yet but also thats bc no whips and im kind of bored of the same whip progression

[grave geyser]

and that completely ruins the weapon from a design perspective
it homogonizes it and makes it more like more conventional magic weapons
this is litterally the exact problem I just described

[brittle escarp]

Like why does summoner have whips, a melee weapon? That doesn’t make sense. Why does melee have projectiles, when the justification for the defense and health is being at close range? That doesn’t make sense.

Like there is no coherent design philosophy

It’s just kind of a soup

[still cobalt]

By making classes more unique you make the weapons less unique because unique classes become specific

[grave geyser]

it does make sense when you stop thinking about "classes" as some rigid structure

the only defining trait of a class is what damage type it scales off of
thats it.

[brittle escarp]

You can still have massager variations in weapons. Like the clinger staff, rainbow gun, and subsuming vortex all fit the bill

You can still have all the uniqueness

But if you want a Ranger weapon, just play Ranger

Don’t make a ranger weapon a melee weapon

That screws with balancing

[still cobalt]

Also to claim “melee has ridiculous defense” when ranger is ranger and has similar levels of defense at most/all stages

[pulsar cobalt]

this literally means nothing

[brittle escarp]

It’s like 60 vs like 90 rn at the beginning of HM

that’s a 1.5x difference

That’s huge

[grave geyser]

no it fucking isnt?

[still cobalt]

From what

[brittle escarp]

I am taking 20 damage instead of 60

1/3 the damage

I can face tank in death mode

[still cobalt]

What is creating this big of a gap/gen

[brittle escarp]

Palladium armor

[grave geyser]

the difference in defense between melee palladium and ranger palladium is 11

[brittle escarp]

All my potions are the same

I have like 6 defense from accessories

[still cobalt]

The palladium helmet for melee does not have 30 more defense than ranger

[brittle escarp]

But melee accessories also come with built in DR

I have like 20% free DR

[pulsar cobalt]

palladium only has a disparity of like 10

sob

[pulsar cobalt]

you mean literally just bloody worm scarf

[still cobalt]

Only like 1 accessory does and thats the bloody worm scarf

[grave geyser]

which is 3

so thats still only 14 defense differential

[unique warren]

Melee should be a class that abides by “closer range = more damage”, which makes tankier builds have more draw to them but not make it the only option.

Ranger should be a class that abides by “longer range and better aim = more damage”, making it the opposite of melee in many ways. This class should have no homing weapons.

Mage should be a class defined by incredibly high burst damage, but having to wait for mana to regen between periods of prolonged attack. They would also not be particularly range dependent and have access to homing options that melee and ranger wouldn’t.

Summoner would primarily be a many-tooled class, having many tools for different jobs (summons of different varieties, whips, and sentries) that give it diverse playstyles that necessitate lots of weapon swapping

[grave geyser]

mind you the difference between warding and not warding is 24/28

[unique warren]

No one has thought about this more than I have

[brittle escarp]

That’s 3 defense but 10 damage reduction, and then since damage from enemies are flat, a few points (like 15) of defense makes 30 damage 15, which is 50% DR

[grave rock]

hi all..

[brittle escarp]

Again, huge difference

[unique warren]

The issue with other people adding- oh hey Roxy!

[grave rock]

hii shush

[unique warren]

The issue with people giving classes distinct playstyles is that they make them FAR too specific

[brittle escarp]

But melee and ranger being distance dependent ignores that most bosses don’t allow you to set your own distance

Like Providence, for example

Or DoG

[unique warren]

And that is an issue with boss design!

[brittle escarp]

Well fair

[brittle escarp]

And mage has like no regen issues rn. You have the burst with no drawbacks. It’s just higher damage homing ranger

I agree with summoner

[unique warren]

Oh yeah totally, this is a complete hypothetical

[grave geyser]

ok but if I wanted too I could be running a ranger build frost barrier and fairy boots and worm scarf and woah would you look at that I've more than made up the deffense differential compared to melee

[unique warren]

That’s how I want the classes to be because they’re fun and unique playstyles that aren’t too specific

[brittle escarp]

But the worm scarf also gives melee damage, which the ranger then isn’t getting

So now you have the same defense but a damage difference

[unique warren]

They’re broad enough so that you could rework SO many weapons to fit these so easily

[brittle escarp]

Also helmet defense

[acoustic talon]

Also updated graphics in this update are awesome

[grave geyser]

is only 11
meanwhile the build I described would be +16, or +3 compared to melee

[acoustic talon]

This summon has carried me since i got it

[unique warren]

Which one is this again

[brittle escarp]

Right but you lose the damage that comes with things like bloody work scarf

[dull heart]

vengeful sun

[brittle escarp]

So ranger in that situation is still losing, just from a different area

[unique warren]

Amazing..

[still cobalt]

My go to defense is like giant turtle shell, mollysk shell armor and then HM ore hat and it feels abt the same no matter the class

[brittle escarp]

This is also partially because there are like 3 good ranger accessories in all of hard mode

[dull heart]

tbh it's not unlikely

[grave geyser]

ok
I can swap fairy boots for moon stone and suddenly I have more damage with the same defense

[brittle escarp]

That definitely doesn’t help

[dull heart]

but it's not guaranteed

[brittle escarp]

Well that’s also a multi-class armor

Unlike palladium, for example

Or anything like it

[still cobalt]

And?

[pulsar cobalt]

or yknow swap worm scarf with amal brain to get damage and a very good defensive utility

[grave rock]

daily shush class identity yapping we love to see it

[still cobalt]

Its multiclass and a great armor pick no matter the class

[grave rock]

girl just make ur mod atp

[brittle escarp]

I just mean this is a reasoning for why defense and damage should be inversely proportional roughly

You survive longer so the fight lasts longer

[unique warren]

I have to get my medication and also wait for summer and also help with 2.0

[brittle escarp]

It balances out that way

[unique warren]

And by help I mean just testing

[grave rock]

college? or sumn?

[dull heart]

not really entirely possible to do when more defense/survivability means you can be a lot more agressive which generally means more damage

[brittle escarp]

If you make the classes more distinct, and you want a “mage feeling weapon” rather than doing a melee weapon that feels like mage, just use a mage weapon

[unique warren]

Nah just high school

[grave rock]

ah

[grave geyser]

I fail to see why this would be a good thing

[brittle escarp]

But then lower the damage of that class in return

[still cobalt]

Summoner rebalance but axrually just mega buff summoner please

[brittle escarp]

Like melee shouldn’t do that much damage because it has so much survivability

[dull heart]

spider staff in question

[grim pecan]

virid vanguard in question

[dull heart]

vanguard isn't THAT crazy

[pulsar cobalt]

vengeful sun in question

[grave geyser]

instead of being able to choose either a mage or melee weapon that has that kind of function, I am now locked into using mage boosting equipment and have an entire potential build path blocked off to me

[still cobalt]

Spider staff when i make my arena only out of walls so it can sctually hit

[brittle escarp]

Because then you can make more class unique accessories that really fit the playstyle (like Daawnlight spirit origin) and not general ones (like the ankh shield)

[dull heart]

it's made significantly more crazy by your amalgam buff just saying smh

[brittle escarp]

You can make the classes more interesting if they are separated

[dull heart]

actually doesn't need walls for most bosses anymore

[brittle escarp]

And easier to balance

[grim pecan]

and that's because my amalgam buff is cool and based and debuffpilled

[dull heart]

they help ofc

[still cobalt]

Oh i wouldnt know i gavent touched summoner

[lapis oak]

so based

[halcyon seal]

Wouldn’t it be in everyone’s best interest to make individual weapons interesting rather than entire classes

[fathom girder]

Do you know if cal whips are gonna follow a similar design strategy to 1.4.5 whips

[grave geyser]

^

[pulsar cobalt]

true but when will rotten brain and amalbrain get them,,,,

[grave rock]

is it just me or do bosses do too little dmg

[dull heart]

if by "cool and based" you mean "cracked and broken" yes

[fathom girder]

cuz I think 1.4.5 whips are a perfect addon to summoner now

[halcyon seal]

Summoner is really the only class that I think is inherently interesting, and even then that’s just on a conceptual level

In practice I’m not the biggest fan of summoner (even though its my favorite class it’s complicated ok)

[still cobalt]

Idk if its just me but death mode damage numbers do feel kind of unpunishing

[grim pecan]

for someone who likes storm weaver you sure like making weapons that kill it in 20 seconds

[brittle escarp]

Well I am arguing that more district classes means the opportunity for better tailored accessories. You can’t get something as cool as Quiver of Nihility if melee has bows

[grave rock]

this

[fathom girder]

basecal stormweaver sucks

[unique warren]

Sorry sorry

[fathom girder]

don't taunt doze like that c'mon now...

[unique warren]

Who the fuck likes storm weaver

[fathom girder]

Oh doze made a whole addon mod for him

iirc

[still cobalt]

This is… true!

[misty wren]

doze loves weaver

[unique warren]

Storm Weaver probably my least favorite boss in terraria

[still cobalt]

The mentally insane

[brittle escarp]

That’s a little crazy

[misty wren]

iirc hes the reason we have

[brittle escarp]

CV is right there

[unique warren]

Either you engage with the boss and it’s miserable or you don’t and it’s boring

[still cobalt]

What does storm weaver even do other than jumpscare you

[fathom girder]

Really all the sentinels are obnoxious as hell

[unique warren]

At least with CV you have to engage with the damn thing!

[earnest jewel]

Silence, fool. Storm Weavers will always be on top.

[fathom girder]

I hate all their fights LMAO

literally all of em

[dull heart]

blame everyone who stopped me from reworking weaver smh

[brittle escarp]

Kinda

[misty wren]

not signus! signus is just lame

[still cobalt]

Signus is at least like cool

[unique warren]

Do you like the fight or just the guy

[fathom girder]

my issue is I always fight signus with my wof arena and try to rungod him

and it just doesn't work

because ofc it wouldn't

[inner timber]

can you like give bro insane body dr like dog

[dull heart]

the guy the fight SUCKS

[grave rock]

why wouldd they stop u....

[dull heart]

even if it has cool ideas

[inner timber]

please bro he dies too fast

[unique warren]

Okay that IS true I take it back you are right

[still cobalt]

Can tou make storm weaver only damageable from pre mech weapons

[misty wren]

unless its an emergency no boss reworks that arent final

[fathom girder]

spider staff meta re-emerges

[grave geyser]

I mean
you kinda can though?

qon being bows only is kind of an arbitrary restriction as is that plays with the nature of how most arrows are fired

if melee got bows that worked with qon then I fail to see the problem

if we had a weapon that was litterally just a bow that dealt melee damage, that itself creates interesting build potential does it not?

[grave rock]

you're telling me we could've had BRAIN of Cthulhu and STORM Weaver reworks for BRAINSTORM...

[grim pecan]

DoG was the exception, not the rule

[still cobalt]

Lets just buff spider staff again actually

[hasty tangle]

brain storm weaver

[fathom girder]

DoG was an exception cuz it sucked universal ass

yeah

[brittle escarp]

I don’t really think so. Why add a bow that does melee damage, when you could just … make a bow

Just use Ranger if you want Ranger weapons

[earnest jewel]

Because it was getting unbelievable that something so useless was employed? Fair.

[brittle escarp]

That’s why it’s there

[dull heart]

why have damage classes at all

[inner timber]

man this is emergency the rune (ig mark) bosses are all cheeks abysmal

[dull heart]

just play roots

[misty wren]

class identity is a myth even in vanilla so we should lean into that more and break conventional class boundaries

[still cobalt]

They think this is roots

[fathom girder]

I"ll play roots when it gets calamity functionality

I think

[brittle escarp]

You can make more interesting accessories and balance more finely

[fathom girder]

in four years

[unique warren]

Something something JUST DO THIS PLEASE

[brittle escarp]

It also allows you to stick to a playstyle if you so desire

[dull heart]

roots is peak because my weapon design has nothing tying it down

[still cobalt]

I kinda wanna check out roots soon

[echo pier]

Will ankh shield have it's own path of upgrades in future updates now that it has been separated from the asgard line?

[dull heart]

i don't think that's true at all

[grave rock]

i will play roots

[still cobalt]

I trust doze im just lazy

[unique warren]

PLEASE EXCEPT DONT IM DOING IT DONT STEAL MY IDEAS

[dull heart]

what accessory becomes more interesting just because it is locked to an arbitrary set of weapons

[misty wren]

you can do that even without classes you arent obligated to use every weapon

[deep bough]

ill play the roots calamity addon

[grave geyser]

same reason we have a line of summon weapons that use bullets

because having a melee weapon that interacts with arrows and by extention qon creates interesting dynamics that arnt accessible otherwise

that weapon is now in a fascinating position where it has access to build combinations other weapons cannot even fathom

[grave rock]

but i need a funny modlist outside of roots so that i can tinker around when im bored

[deep bough]

tinker

u need mechtransfer

[still cobalt]

Might be a goblin ^

[brittle escarp]

Daawnlight Spirit origin, all of the quivers, mana regen items, +summon slots, all of those. I don’t want every single accessory to be rampart of dieties or dark sun ring

[fathom girder]

mana polarizer

[brittle escarp]

Exactly

[fathom girder]

cough I was shitposting

mana polarizer would function fine as an all class as well

[unique warren]

This would happen more often if class identity was real

[brittle escarp]

And then it’s just bad, as it’s not getting all the buffs it needs

[fathom girder]

it only relies on mana levels after all

[grave rock]

would there be any major incompatibilities between ssomething like consolaria and roots? just to get the full SORETRO terraria experience @dull heart

[still cobalt]

I dont understand dawwligbt there especially because it doesnt work with like half of ranger weapons

[grave geyser]

no?

[brittle escarp]

It wouldn’t work conceptually for true melee or summoner

[inner timber]

how the fuck is +summon slots interesting

[brittle escarp]

Not really

[grim pecan]

excuse me i want rogue subclass exclusive accessories like old scuttler's jewel back that was a great decision

[brittle escarp]

Having the goon squad is fun

[unique warren]

The thing is that the “there should be no class identity!” Argument and also the “there should be no classes!” Argument just ends up having the solution of giving classes identity but with extra steps

[grave rock]

quivers are boring as shit except for nihility

[brittle escarp]

Yeah, are you going to make a melee weapon that needs stealth? Because then you have to build in 2 different directions and be bad at both

[brittle escarp]

Well that’s a different issue

All the quivers are terrible

[misty wren]

thats because summons are fun not because more slots are interesting

[brittle escarp]

But they could be cool if they are bows only

[inner timber]

there are precise true melee weapons and active summons that need precision so yeah it could work

[echo pier]

Idk how to feel about ankh shield being removed from the asgard line, one time i lost a hardcore death run to medusa
Had i equiped an ankh shield then i would've likely made it to post moonlord

[dull heart]

Balance would be rough probably and consolaria armors would boost almost no items

They'd only boost consolaria items

[grave rock]

thats fair

[inner timber]

stealth currently is already cheeks and is being reworked eventually (like iirc not needing armor)

[unique warren]

Like, with roots, it’s just adding class identity with extra steps

[grave rock]

honestly i just need my modlist to be a lil bigger cuz my playthroughs are rly slow

[still cobalt]

Soooo?

[grave geyser]

honestly?
because damage types are constraint that creates decision making to work around
its a limitation that creates interesting shit

NOTHING like the scions/black hawk interaction would realistically happen in roots

[unique warren]

You’re adding damage types that correspond to different playstyles

[brittle escarp]

Like if melee can have bows and magic has summons, why even have class damages or unique gimmicks or classes at all? No rogue stealth anymore, no true melee anymore, all of that complexity and intrigue is just gone

[unique warren]

That’s classes, and they have identity

[brittle escarp]

Exactly

[dull heart]

fair tbh

[misty wren]

breaking class boundaries are a good thing, removing those boundaries entirely is a bad thing

[brittle escarp]

You are nominally changing things but fundamentally making weapons that just don’t work well

[grave rock]

if i just play vanilla i get bored hahaa, its been a while since ive like RUSHED thru terraria

[inner timber]

also if the weapon is properly designed this could very much not just make you weaker

[dull heart]

Class locked gear is only interesting when it comes to multiclass imo

Mixing items

[lusty orchid]

Hi

[grim pecan]

bye

[brittle escarp]

Then it’s WAY harder to balance

[misty wren]

not really

[unique warren]

Question, what damage types does your mod add, again?

[inner timber]

it is one weapon to balance

[unique warren]

Just so I can remember

[misty wren]

none afaik

[brittle escarp]

Now expand that to every weapon

[grave geyser]

why would we?

[inner timber]

but its not

[grave geyser]

we're talking about one weapon

[lusty orchid]

Hi

[brittle escarp]

There are a billion more free variables and combos that could exist such that it is literally impossible to balance

[misty wren]

there are items that use ammo, items that use mana, and items that use neither

[brittle escarp]

Not if you get rid of classes

That, by definition, is breaking these molds

[grim pecan]

flesh totem is technically multiclass, but it's whole thing is using mana so realistically it's just mage

[unique warren]

So there is only damage % increases and… yeah? Crit chance too I suppose?

[inner timber]

ok so we'd be making a close range weapon that utilizes stealth

[grim pecan]

actually wait no it gives 5% magic crit sorry mage locked forever

[still cobalt]

I feel like your issue is youre thinking of things in absolutes and in a too broad sense of everything applies to everything

[grave geyser]

reminds me that people call profaned soul artifact a summoner accessory

even though its benefits are good on every class

but it gives +1 minion so its summoner :/

[arctic cliff]

i mean, its best used as such

[grim pecan]

offensive guardian is minion slot locked, no?

[unique warren]

It really is one first and foremost but yes it can be used everywhere

[brittle escarp]

The issue is that it then doesn’t have the defense it needs, or doesn’t have the projectile speed it needs, etc etc or, you get a situation where every single accessory is affliction which just buffs everything

[grim pecan]

or did we get rid of that

[dull heart]

Technically pickaxe dmg

I assume you mean the categories? They don't work quite exactly like damage types but they're similar.

• Physical (anything non mana or summon)
• Mana
• Summon

[grave geyser]

not anymore

[grim pecan]

thank god

[still cobalt]

Its called summoner because the class that wants to use it the modt is summoner i imagine

[dull heart]

Been dead for years

[unique warren]

And how are these categories buffed

[grim pecan]

that was really dumb

[inner timber]

tbf the psa summons scale off summoner damage

[brittle escarp]

Correct

[grave rock]

i rly like roots allowing one weapon to use the different damage types

[brittle escarp]

So it’s still a summoner accessory

[dull heart]

By specific gear or armor that's related to them

[inner timber]

not really? what

[unique warren]

So it’s a stat that buffs a specific set of weapons or attacks

[dull heart]

notably though the roots three damage division is tied directly to weapon function

[grave geyser]

the point was that by just labeling it a summoner accessory you completely miss the part where its defensive benefits are arguably enough to make the accessory worth using on its own

similar logic can be used for the spirit glyph line

[dull heart]

while Terraria damage classes are arbitrary and not tied to function

[unique warren]

Because they have no identity

[brittle escarp]

If I make ranger, then the poorer defense of ranger is balanced by its long range. If the ranger weapon is melee, I am playing melee without melee defenses. I am just playing worse, less interesting melee with none of the bonuses that come with melee

Just make it melee then

That’s what the class is for

Melee weapons

[grave geyser]

I mean
lemmie ask you this

would you say physical and special attacks in pokemon have a meaningful identity

[deep bough]

i play ranger and then touch the bosses cuz im just cool like that

[still cobalt]

Idk where this idea of terraria classes having no identity comes from bc if you look at it on a large scale and not at outliers you can tell whats what

[unique warren]

Sorry idk pokemon like that

[brittle escarp]

But then just play true melee for the extra damage and defense and speed

[grave geyser]

fair

[grim pecan]

accessory that adds a bayonet to all guns, you can now right click and they turn into a usestyle1 broadsword that deals ranged damage

[inner timber]

and you're usually vastly rewarded for playing the close ranged ranger weapons

[brittle escarp]

And now I die because I don’t have melee defense

[misty wren]

alternatively we make it so that defensive or offensive bonuses arent insanely lopsided towards just a couple classes

[still cobalt]

This is real i love hellborn and its a weapon made cooler by its close range gameplay

[deep bough]

peak ‼️

[vivid hemlock]

huge news?

[dull heart]

Some of the few good damage distinctions I feel like I see in vanilla is like

Shroomite helmets and magic quiver

[inner timber]

look at hellborn

[brittle escarp]

And it’s still worse at true melee than true melee

[unique warren]

I can see that

[brittle escarp]

If I wanted to be that close, I would use true melee

[dull heart]

Not once I give the burning sky Mana cost

[brittle escarp]

That’s what it’s for

[grim pecan]

about time

[unique warren]

Okay I disagree with you a lot but please fucking do holy shit

[grave geyser]

I'm sorry but
"if this weapon is ranged then it isnt taking advantage of melee bonuses"
YES!
THATS WHAT MAKES IT INTERESTING

[brittle escarp]

You guys are trying to recreate classes that already exist but worse and with no balancing

It’s just a melee weapon in everything but name

Just make it melee

[unique warren]

I wouldn’t say that’s what they’re doing

[brittle escarp]

That way you can actually design around the melee class effectively

[inner timber]

i mean, old hellborn was like. the single strongest weapon in the game . and post rework it was still incredibly strong

[misty wren]

except it isnt

[unique warren]

I don’t agree with their takes but it isn’t bad

[brittle escarp]

It literally is

You are in melee range

[misty wren]

you're looking at melee as though its the only class that can be close range

[brittle escarp]

Yes?

[grave rock]

you heard it folks, no other class gets access to meaningful gameplay at close range

[brittle escarp]

That’s what melee means

[grave geyser]

ok
so then it just becomes "another melee weapon"
instead of a ranged weapon that plays close range

[brittle escarp]

Yes

Good

[misty wren]

which is not the case and never has been the case

[brittle escarp]

Then you can balance around that

[lyric trellis]

What does this even mean

[dull heart]

I really really want to because it would be so so funny

[misty wren]

it inherently... isnt

[unique warren]

Class identity is a theme, not a law, is something that I often remind myself

[grave geyser]

you are actively taking unique aspects away from weapons
that is the exact opposite of good

[inner timber]

you hit things in melee range to charge long range shots
it isnt just melee or just range

[still cobalt]

I thought a lot of rangers (and plenty of orher weapons) designs was decent far range but better close range

[dull heart]

Agree

[brittle escarp]

But why would I use a gun that only works in punching range, when I could use the class with all the accessories and armor abilities and design philosophy based around being in punching range

[dull heart]

This is how my Roots weapon design works too

[misty wren]

a melee is an intense hand to hand fight

[grave geyser]

if every melee weapon is a true melee close range high damage weapon
I have zero reason to ever play melee again after one playthrough

because I have seen everything the class has to offer

[brittle escarp]

It’s just a worse version of the same thing

[unique warren]

That theme needs to be stronger but it doesn’t need to be enforced

[dull heart]

Not everything falls into my Roots divisions

Notably, Scourge of the Corruptor and Piranha Gun do not need to be close, use Mana, nor use ammo

But those are exceptions driven by being super rare biome chest weapons

[grave rock]

so called classes when shadowflame knife ,magic dagger , throwing knives

[lusty orchid]

Melee can also include weapons

[brittle escarp]

Like why is scourge of the corrupt or melee and not magic

That’s silly

[grave geyser]

luckily we dont exist in this hypothetical world where melee has design philosophy based around being in punching range

[still cobalt]

Theyre summon bc they shoot guys to help you

[brittle escarp]

Just make it a magic weapon because it does magic thing

[steel pike]

#True

[unique warren]

honestly only shadow flame doesn’t fit here imo

[inner timber]

to cap it to either a close range weapon or long range weapon would remove half of the weapon

[brittle escarp]

Yeah, it’s just tankier mage with no costs

That’s so much better

[grave rock]

the joke is they all do the same thing

[grave geyser]

yes.
yes it is better.

[brittle escarp]

No?

[steel pike]

Ougjh I love magic dagger

[brittle escarp]

Wait literally how

[still cobalt]

Less dps than mage when its playing like mage usually

[inner timber]

you're throwing corrupted javelins i wouldnt call it magic

[unique warren]

Also I lied I do not often remind myself this but it is an idea that I have had for a while that I just put into words

[brittle escarp]

But that’s also not true at all

[lusty orchid]

Wait so what point is exactly being made

[brittle escarp]

And if so, then just play the mage weapons then

[arctic cliff]

okay im gonna say this

[inner timber]

or you can play the melee weapons closer ranged for more damage

[still cobalt]

Ur playing melee to be tankier though you said it yourself why youd play melee there

[grave rock]

if melee close range why ranger also get close range when it could just be melee

class identity can never overlap

[steel pike]

Idgaf what class I’m in if I get the fetid baghnakhs I’m using the fuck out of them

[brittle escarp]

Yeah, ranger should benefit from being far away

I agree

[steel pike]

That is the rule

[unique warren]

Honestly, shotguns kinda DO stump me but I think it’s smth I kinda just have to put up with

[misty wren]

they arent agreeing with you they're restating your own point

[brittle escarp]

Ranger has less dps because it applies that dps more consistently

[still cobalt]

Proud to have never tiuched the bagnajhs

[steel pike]

missing out

They’re so fun

[still cobalt]

Doesnt ranger consistently come into the upper ends of dps at most stages correct me if im wrong

[grave geyser]

ranger should have a variety of ways to be played, some benefiting from playing far away, and others up close, leveraging mechanics like ammo to get value

[grave rock]

if one class does something thats OUT OF LIMIT for the other classes forever ig

[inner timber]

yk, im curious then
what fo you think mage should be? close and mid/long range is already taken, what would mage be for

[brittle escarp]

Why be up close tho. If you want to play up close, play the class that focuses on being up close

[half vine]

you can still do the sky mill thing with the architect

[brittle escarp]

Burst damage and resource management

As well as a utility class

Like tempest staff

[grave geyser]

if classes all have 1 singular playstyle that every weapon in the class is pidgeonholed into

then you kill replayability in a game famous for its replayability

[still cobalt]

Why should you be forced into playing a certain class due to your playstyle

[misty wren]

so you have things to do that arent exactly the same thing you've been doing for the entire rest of the game

[unique warren]

Okay wait I have a genuine question, how would one design a shotgun that roughly fits into the “farther = better damage” archetype

[brittle escarp]

No, just switch classes when you want a different experience

[steel pike]

Idk cuz mage is literally like everything

[inner timber]

would ranger with ammo not already have resource management? would the other two classes not already have burst damage? nothing makes mage unique here

[brittle escarp]

Play the class with the experience you want

[brittle escarp]

Not really because you can pre farm for ammo

[inner timber]

splitting bullet

[brittle escarp]

You can’t pre load magic

[misty wren]

you absolutely can its called mana potion

[dull heart]

elemental lance

[brittle escarp]

Melee would have burst, but at close range, and magic has homing

[unique warren]

Splitting bullet… ehhh

Yes but also kinda not quite there

[misty wren]

summoner already does homing, try again

[brittle escarp]

I mean before the fight, and I also kinda disagree with mana potions conceptually

[inner timber]

so ranger can't have anything that homes in?

[brittle escarp]

Summoner you don’t have to micro tho

It’s the auto class

[brittle escarp]

Preferably no

[dull heart]

Mana Potions are fine just the way terraria handles them rn is not good

[misty wren]

dont have to micro mage either if it has homing

[unique warren]

I actually wouldn’t mind this personally but only because I think aiming for ranger is cool

[steel pike]

They should add Hershel’s infinite shotgun lowkey

[dull heart]

Solution! Play roots

[brittle escarp]

Man conservation

*mana

[dull heart]

Roots makes Mana Sickness into "can't use Mana Potions for 15s"

[still cobalt]

Ok but then what after youve played 5 classes
Youve already tried the 5 unique playstyles so why play again
To use different weapons in those classes that still have the same playstyle?

[grave rock]

hashbrown whatd you think of yoyos

[brittle escarp]

If you have played like 4000 hours and have played every single weapon against every boss enough times to get bored, then yeah, I guess you did everything

Congrats

[arctic cliff]

the classes as they are in calamity are functionally, at their base,like this: they are distinguished from each other by their own resource mechanic

• Melee uses. Nothing. It just is.
• Ranger uses ammunition, and this ammo can help allow for variation in how it is played
• Mage uses mana. Calamity finally started playing around a lot with this with Brainstorm, and now Mage is my new favorite class.
• Summoners use Minion and Sentry slots. Whips are kinda weird, but their purpose is clearly to help buff Minions.
• Rogue uses Stealth strikes to do boosted single attacks.
  -# I can't wait for Stealth to be moved off armor and onto the weapons themselves.

[still cobalt]

“So you can either stop shooting or lower your dps a teeny bit but constantly shoot”

[brittle escarp]

I am only 2000 hours into Ranger, and am still going

[steel pike]

Try only using wand of sparking

The whole game

[grave rock]

its not a teeny bit lets be real

[unique warren]

I’ve always viewed mana potions best implemented as a “ease of use” type of mage playstyle that trades off for lesser damage

[still cobalt]

But why play different weapons if theyre being slotted into the same exact playstyle for every class

[arctic cliff]

in reality the real problem with terraria is that Melee just outright lacks a mechanic

[still cobalt]

Idk gng i dont play mage worst class in the game

[grave geyser]

the problem is that I dont have to have played every weapon against every boss to have experienced everything

because when every weapon in any given class is fundementally the same, variety suffers

[brittle escarp]

Because they work differently? Comet quasher and the muramasa play differently

[inner timber]

also for the burst thing, ranger could also have burst if there's anything that would require charging, or are burst fire, or have a reloading mechanic

[misty wren]

except thats not the case we're dealing with here
we're dealing with classes that fundamentally dont change over the progression of the game

[grave geyser]

no they dont

[dull heart]

Yeah, that's what they are but the issue mainly is they don't do it enough

[arctic cliff]

some ranger weapons might not use ammo, but this is only a minority

[inner timber]

they are both "get close and hold m1"

[dull heart]

But I prefer just

[brittle escarp]

But just make those mage

[dull heart]

Making Mana Flower not require Mana Potions

[brittle escarp]

That’s really reductionist I feel

[steel pike]

I mean it’s kinda hard when it’s just literally

[inner timber]

why would a reloading gun be mage

[steel pike]

Swing and hit

[unique warren]

I fw that

[dull heart]

And then making Mana Potions a more limited boost

[brittle escarp]

Every weapon is just “hold m1”

[grave rock]

waait what does roots mana flower do?

[brittle escarp]

That’s the game

[inner timber]

fuck else are they

[steel pike]

Like I don’t think it can get simpler than that

[still cobalt]

“Ranger cant be burst”

[grim pecan]

that reminds me, i want to add a sick close range blast to conference call because we're missing a shotgun later in the game that makes you want to get in an enemy's face

[brittle escarp]

If you want ranged burst, play the ranged burst class

[inner timber]

no really there is no gimmick to play around with those you literally just get close and hold m1

[dull heart]

+20 Mana every second even while using weapons

0.75x Mana attack dmg

[misty wren]

me racking a shell in a shotgun isnt magic

[brittle escarp]

This is very hard to respond to everything

[grave rock]

pack it up

[brittle escarp]

Also, as interesting as this is I really have to do my quantum homework lol

[misty wren]

and its not me beating someone in the face with a fist or stabbing someone or slashing someone

[grave geyser]

ok but what if I want to play a ranged burst damage class that takes advantage of rangers unique accessories

oop! that option doesnt exist anymore

[brittle escarp]

I got a midterm on Friday and I may be cooked

[steel pike]

Sometimes I feel like half of this is in a different language

[steel pike]

I feel you to an extent I got a chem test tomorrow

[still cobalt]

Do your hw instead of discussing terraria classes yo

[unique warren]

I do find myself agreeing with roots very often even if I don’t necessarily prefer the execution

[steel pike]

I kicked ass on those blookets but it doesn’t matter

[grim pecan]

you're focusing on the wrong kind of classes

[dull heart]

Arcane Flower raises this to
,
0-60 Mana per second (higher as your Mana is lower)
1x to 0.5x Mana dmg (lower as your Mana is lower)

[brittle escarp]

I keep getting distracted 😞

[steel pike]

[steel pike]

Good luck yo

[dull heart]

roots arcane flower is so peak

[grave rock]

is the boomstick melee or mage

[brittle escarp]

This is infinitely more interesting than homework lol

[grim pecan]

summoner

[still cobalt]

I lowk should get to bed ive been weaking up late consistently all week

[unique warren]

Thrower right? Maybe bard?

[dull heart]

My favorite thing roots does rn is either influx waiver bc it's so silly

Or Mana Cloak because it's cool and actually good

[still cobalt]

Melee bc im in melee range

[steel pike]

What’s broomstick again

boomstick*

[dull heart]

Shotgun

[brittle escarp]

I honestly wouldn’t mind shotgun style things being moved to melee, but longer ranged shotguns that actually fire projectiles staying with Ranger

[dull heart]

Jungle

[misty wren]

class identity should be broken there should be exceptions to the rule because those exceptions add spice to the class

[steel pike]

Oh yeah

[grave rock]

shotgun u get in jungle

[steel pike]

Forgot about that

[unique warren]

Tell me EXACTLY how you reworked influx waver

[still cobalt]

Made it cool ig

[grave geyser]

exactly

[fierce hearth]

I'm thinking about the person in the roots steam comments saying that link doesn't need mana to shoot beams out of his sword so roots sucks bc mana starfury

[brittle escarp]

But just play the class with the playstyle you want

[still cobalt]

Also create unique experiences and strategies

[brittle escarp]

Like you can do that

[grave rock]

HAHHAHA

[dull heart]

Its the same as every other sword in that the projectile costs Mana

But the Mana cost is 0 when you have Electrified inflicted on yourself

[unique warren]

Pfftttt

[dull heart]

WHAT? I missed this comment that's so funny

[steel pike]

there should be more classes imo

[brittle escarp]

If you want to stop playing Ranger and switch to melee halfway through, just do that

[misty wren]

one flavor of food forever gets boring after about a day

[grave rock]

mod that makes swords only shoot projectiles at full HP

[unique warren]

Not at all how I would rework it but fair

[grave geyser]

polaris parrotfish is one of my favorite new reworks and it would be so much less interesting if it was melee

[brittle escarp]

I disagree

[dull heart]

It's so bad but so funny

[still cobalt]

In the roots comment that might be right…

[dull heart]

I need to rework use style 1 for toots

Roots

[grave rock]

big day for nohitters ig

[brittle escarp]

Idk, I played Ranger for 2000 hours straight because I liked the playstyle

[grim pecan]

we have that, it's the dark master :)

[brittle escarp]

I don’t want to play melee ranger

[unique warren]

What is this some kind of Fargo soul

[brittle escarp]

If I did I would play melee

[grave rock]

ive never seen this

[still cobalt]

Trueeee

[dull heart]

How about Roots flying dragon

It costs HP to fire projectiles when you're out of mana

[fierce hearth]

Does nights edge use mana in roots

[dull heart]

No

[fierce hearth]

For the funny sword extender

[still cobalt]

Then just play melee

[dull heart]

True night's edge does tho

[brittle escarp]

Doing true melee rn

[misty wren]

then you dont have to? i said it a while ago right at the start of the discussion you arent obligated to use every weapon

[burnt basin]

Wait this was done to every melee weapon with a projectile?

[brittle escarp]

But why is it in ranger

It doesn’t belong there

[still cobalt]

Nights edge doesnt have a projectile

[dull heart]

Most of them

[misty wren]

because variety is the spice of life

[brittle escarp]

But vary it by playing melee

[fierce hearth]

Blade of grass?

[grave rock]

also its a fucking gun

[brittle escarp]

The weapon still exists

[dull heart]

I might unrework Roots starfury tbh

[brittle escarp]

You don’t have to do one class the whole playthrough

[grave rock]

like its pretty simple IMO

its aa gun

[still cobalt]

Except it does because these classes arent strict theyre fluid and flexible

[still cobalt]

Tbf magic gun

[brittle escarp]

Why tho

[grave geyser]

because thats more fun

[deep bough]

why not

[brittle escarp]

Just switch to melee after moonlord or whatever

Same weapon

Same experience

[misty wren]

because that way people have options

[brittle escarp]

Easier to balance

[misty wren]

within a class

[brittle escarp]

The option still exists

[dull heart]

spoiler: 2.1.2 finally makes Old Duke be caught by you instead of catching himself

[grim pecan]

doze, can you make a mod called branches and hard force class limits in it

[brittle escarp]

Just switch classes if you want a different playstyle than the class offers

That’s why they are there

[grave rock]

i feel like both of those are largely different, ranger guns are very straightforward n magic guns are like scifi weird shit

[brittle escarp]

No options are getting removed at all

Just recategorized

[still cobalt]

Dont we get the trunk first

[misty wren]

and if you want to utilize a classes unique accessories while not using that class's damage?

[grim pecan]

trunk is vanilla

[still cobalt]

Oh true

[brittle escarp]

The new class would have accessories that better gel with it

That’s the whole point

The accessories work better

[grim pecan]

this tree metaphor works surprisingly well

[grave rock]

the actual answer is abolish classes

[grave geyser]

options are being removed
if I want a close range weapon that plays with mana, that option doesnt exist anymore

[misty wren]

which is hardlining everything into one playstyle

[brittle escarp]

That is literally the entire goal of the class system

[dull heart]

okay time to go read steam comments

[deep bough]

TSA aspecting is the fix to this 😎

[grave rock]

imma be so fr

[brittle escarp]

It’s the same weapon

It plays the same

No options removed

[grave rock]

the class system in terraria only exists cuz rpgs have classes and relogic decided to throw em in there

[misty wren]

except without the ability to use it with stuff from other classes

[grave rock]

change my mind

[brittle escarp]

Literally nothing changes with your experience

[inner timber]

it plays differently because it has different accessories

[grave geyser]

^

[brittle escarp]

The accessories just actually buff it instead of not that

But the accessories don’t work with it

That’s the issue I am trying to address

[misty wren]

so options are removed

[brittle escarp]

That is the thing not happening

No

[misty wren]

that inherently is what stuff not working with other stuff means

[dull heart]

would you add if you would throw dynamite or bombs at a meteorite, it would actually destroy it? Like the old times?
lol

[brittle escarp]

Those options are dysfunctional

They just don’t work

[inner timber]

like, okay
heavenly gale is a burst homing weapon, so in this universe it is mage . but then it doesnt have daawnlight spirit origin, unless you make a DSO for both ranger and mage, which .. why would you

[grave rock]

i like a lot about terraria but tbh the class system always felt thrown together

[misty wren]

are they dysfunctional if they still work

[lusty orchid]

Don’t worry guys I’m still here

[grave geyser]

so you're just removing limitations and stifling the ability to have interesting decisions because the best syngergies are just handed to you

[brittle escarp]

Or are objectively worse versions of other weapons that already exist

[dull heart]

the power of being named PLAY ROOTS when 2.1 dropped LOL

[grave rock]

epic

[brittle escarp]

As opposed to the weapons going unused because the exact same weapon but better in every way already exists

Yeah

Exactly

[grave rock]

the hellborn isnt unused

be so fr

[misty wren]

this is literally what your class system would do though

[fathom girder]

Accessories now have tags that specifically say "Melee" or "summoner" or "mage" and don't function at all on other classes

[grim pecan]

those fucking spiny turtles from mario you can't jump on

[dull heart]

the sub graph is funny too

absolutely 0 growth lol

[brittle escarp]

Why use the Ranger melee weapon when the actual melee weapon is buffed by the actual melee accessories, and is thus better in every way

[misty wren]

because the distinctors between items arent behavioral

[grave rock]

cuz its fun

[inner timber]

i cant think of any weapons that are literally unused unless they're weapons built to be worse than other options

[brittle escarp]

Better damage, defense, attack speed, etc

[brittle escarp]

Which these end up being

[grave geyser]

because thats not how fucking terraria works

[grave rock]

name three

[brittle escarp]

The hellborn is just worse than like t other options on tier

Yeah

[misty wren]

because its buffed by ranger accessories you absolute moron

[inner timber]

because the ranger melee weapon is buffed by ranger accessories which still benefit the weapon? what?

[brittle escarp]

But it would be buffed more by the melee accessories

[grave geyser]

hellborn was one of the best weapons in the game last update.

[grave rock]

also people just

like the hellborn

[inner timber]

the hellborn is an A tier weapon

[brittle escarp]

I don’t understand what is not being conveyed here

[inner timber]

and it just got nerfed to be A tier

[brittle escarp]

Like genuinely I am not trying to be rude, I don’t understand what is not understood

[misty wren]

no it wouldnt because those melee accessories Do Not Function With It

[inner timber]

in 2.1 and 2.0.4 it was top 3 weapons in the game

[grave rock]

its fun being a ranger that can switch into closer ranged gameplay when its convenient

[lusty orchid]

Damn no need to insult 😭 please let’s not escalate a lot

[misty wren]

this has been going on for almost an hour i think periodic escalation is warranted

[still cobalt]

Hellborn is a great weapon the moment you use a ram dash
Iircjust the bullet part gets higher dps than most/all ranger weapons at that stage

[grim pecan]

everyone say thank you fluffy

[grave rock]

thank you fluffy

[grave geyser]

why would it be less damage as a ranged weapon
if anything it would be balanced to be more damage in this hypothetical world since you'd be playing a "lower defense" class

[lusty orchid]

Bye fluffy

[inner timber]

not all melee weapons even benefit from all melee stats. melee speed doesnt do shit on some weapons because it doesnt need or for balancing purposes. making hellborn melee would just like, idk give it flasks again I guess? which is meaningless cuz rams inflict flasks anyways?

[lusty orchid]

Fair, just don’t go too far

I’ll just keep an eye to make sure nothing gets out of hand

[still cobalt]

Rams inflict flasks???

[grave geyser]

yes

new to 2.1

[still cobalt]

Oh that explains why i never heard of it

[grave rock]

i think the same class having different playstyles also introduces certain amount of fluidity to it that couldnt happen if they were streamlined into one thing

[lapis oak]

I mean it makes sense ram does melee damage

[grim pecan]

we should make rams count as true melee hits, proc hide of astrum deus i think

[lapis oak]

also bonk too?

[grim pecan]

(don't do this)

[misty wren]

the only functional buff achieved is that it scales off only the melee damage
melee speed doesnt work because it isnt a swung weapon
melee size just doesnt matter
it doesnt gain anything from being melee

[brittle escarp]

Let’s take a hypothetical Ranger weapon, that, for whatever reason, functions like a melee one. It does not benefit from the Ranger accessories that focus on things like projectile speed or hitting targets, as it does not do those things. If it were melee instead for example, it could benefit from melee accessories and things like use speed, size, defense because you are closer, and speed to get you closer. It is more functional and aligns with accessory effects more if it is placed into the box that does the thing it wants to do

[inner timber]

(it'd also warrant removing the bullet part, and probably redesigning the weapon since its a gun)

[dull heart]

we should make rams count as magic dmg so they proc batholith bangle

[lapis oak]

(please change Ram Rune to melee damage when 1.4.5 gets ported)

[inner timber]

okay but this hypothetical ranger weapon doesnt exist

[dusk bronze]

do it it'd be so funny

[lapis oak]

why the fuck is it summon damage

[still cobalt]

“What if we made rams (one of best accessories in game) even better…”

[grave rock]

can we add more flowers

[brittle escarp]

But a lot like it do

[dull heart]

WHY IS RAM RUNE SUMMON GHHASDHASDH

[brittle escarp]

Burning sky

That’s the most obvious

It is just a magic weapon

[lapis oak]

literally 😭

[inner timber]

this is a joke weapon

[grim pecan]

can we make rams count as every damage type so it can proc every single onhit effect at once

[grave rock]

#suggestions-posting add more flower pls :)

[lapis oak]

like holy it's so fucking shit

[dull heart]

me ramming my rune to proc Phantomic Artifact

[still cobalt]

Because its like turning into a ram and a ram is an animal an dsummons are like animals

[lapis oak]

what were they even thinking

it has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with summoner

[brittle escarp]

because it’s in the wrong class and doesn’t benefit from the accessories. Like I am saying

[boreal edge]

Because all mount rams are summon damage

[inner timber]

like they even removed the swing and made it a staff . its just there for the bit

[grave geyser]

anyone who genuenely thinks burning sky should be mage has unfortunately fallen for the ragebait

[grim pecan]

she ram on my rune till i phantomic artifact

[brittle escarp]

That is the best example

[misty wren]

bsky is star wrath but they got rid of the parts of it that dont matter

which in this case is the true melee hitbox

[inner timber]

no it is in the wrong class because it is a joke weapon. it is still a good weapon though lol

[still cobalt]

What was burning sky again is it that one yharon weapon

[lapis oak]

yes the chicken leg weapon

[grim pecan]

the best yharon weapon i'm never reworking it

[grave rock]

does calamiy have any flowers

[inner timber]

yharon weapon that is literally just star wrath - sword

[brittle escarp]

Bruh. It’s dysfunctional because it does not benefit from the class because it is miscategorized.

[dusk bronze]

asgardian + slagsplitter + ambergris + scales + hoad + iv drip + old fashioned + cinnamon roll

[boreal edge]

I will rework it to spawn more projectiles

[inner timber]

it functions fine though

what

[grave rock]

i dont mean the ssummon i mean like placeable

[still cobalt]

Rework it to spawn no projectiles except one