calamity-update-talk

[dull heart]

Summon tag stacking is dead

Except where specifically whitelisted

[dense sundial]

specifically whitelisted, huh

[dull heart]

Usually that's for non-active weapon summon tag effects

[dense sundial]

is that for unique effects like firecracker/cool whip/dark harvest that aren't a problem compared to melee speed

[dull heart]

basically, armor or accessories

fearmonger armor set bonus will incorporate a stackable tag

so will Forbidden Circlet

[torn cairn]

But if whip only has flat tag damage wont that be kinda underwhelming in post moonlord and stuff ?

[dull heart]

whip on hit buffs are not a part of summon tag btw

[torn cairn]

Since your damage is so high

[dull heart]

that's entirely separate but similar

[dense sundial]

calamity doesn't add any whips yet so it's not really their problem yet

[hoary bay]

Summoner players when their hotbar suddenly has 4 spots freed up

[somber fulcrum]

where's calamity mod announcements channel

[dull heart]

what if the whip does +200 damage

on tag

we'll balance the amounts and type of tag to what is right for the tier it's on

[torn cairn]

Alright

[dense sundial]

giving percent tag specifically to later cal whips seems fine

[dull heart]

well

[somber fulcrum]

oh

did fabsol leave??

[dull heart]

We're likely not doing multiplicative tag

[somber fulcrum]

oops

#changelogs message

[dull heart]

Vanilla already HAS multiplicative tag effects in tag crit

[dense sundial]

multiplicative tag damage was a disaster

[dull heart]

20% tag crit is almost identical to 1.2x tag damage

[dense sundial]

and yeah, tag crit

[hushed hazel]

sploded

[naive ice]

He was a pedo and transphobe.

[torn cairn]

Wait what

Fabsol left ??

[somber fulcrum]

wait so who's making yharim then

[dense sundial]

it's dm time!

any cal dev can make yharim now

[naive ice]

The rest of the team. Duh

[dull heart]

#server-announcements message

This is the context

[dense sundial]

boss design is completely open

[dull heart]

me

[somber fulcrum]

but it wouldn't be the original vision?

[dull heart]

(this is a joke)

[dull heart]

now we're free to make the bosses actually good yes

[somber fulcrum]

Holup... u rite...

[dense sundial]

fabsol's original vision is making him Senator Armstrong Metal Gear Rising Revengeance and Minos Prime Ultrakill

[lapis oak]

Calamity has like ~50 devs working on it

[hushed hazel]

calamity has not been entirely "the original vision" for a while

[lapis oak]

not everything is made by Fabsol

[dull heart]

like you'll see in 2.1

DoG is getting a bunch of ai changes

[dense sundial]

2.1 DS 🙏

[somber fulcrum]

i need my hype moments and aura

[naive ice]

Fab was sitting on it’s ass not doing shit to contribute

[dull heart]

I did most of those, I think the fight is much better than it's ever been

[hushed hazel]

the only part that was still mainly him by the time he got nuked was bosses

[dull heart]

likely a top 3 boss in calamity now at least

[torn cairn]

Damn

[hushed hazel]

and that's only because he all but refused to let anyone else do boss changes

[dense sundial]

not that i'm not looking forward to doze dog but the bar is low

[naive ice]

I refer to Fab as “It” instead of he because IT doesn’t deserve a gender.

[dense sundial]

What

[somber fulcrum]

kinda weird but you do you i guess

[hushed hazel]

i refer to fab as he because he is a he

he's not voldemort

you're not giving him power by referring to him as a person

[torn cairn]

So now who's the calamity "leader" ?

[hasty tangle]

ozz

[somber fulcrum]

john calamity

[hushed hazel]

ozzatron owns the mod

lilac owns the server

[dull heart]

I am the calamity

[naive ice]

It disrespected others genders, so I won’t respect its. If someone doesn’t respect people’s gender, I don’t respect theirs. Simple

[somber fulcrum]

ok lol

[hushed hazel]

mind you i believe ozz was already basically the leader before

[dense sundial]

??????????

[dull heart]

yeah ozz was lead programmer

[lapis oak]

Ozz killed everyone and ruled over the Calamity

[naive ice]

It’s just official now

[torn cairn]

I always wanted john wulfrum to be the one to rule this mod

[dull heart]

ozz is just now owner

[somber fulcrum]

Was. They killed him.

[torn cairn]

Such a calamity...

[somber fulcrum]

What they don't want u to know is that owner ozz is a different person

[hushed hazel]

weird mindset

[dense sundial]

ozz has always owned the github and handled coordination of the calamity team proper, yeah

[dull heart]

Not always

up to 1.5 it was under fabsol's personal GitHub account

[hushed hazel]

people don't have to have "earned" the right to be called by their preferred pronouns

[wary igloo]

disrespect doesnt become tolerable because individual was disrespectful in return

[dense sundial]

me when i make assertions

[wary igloo]

so please dont

thanks

[dull heart]

anyhow

[fringe quiver]

Evil fucking spoiler chat

guys what a calamity this is amiright. haha

[dull heart]

ravager might be overtuned now

If he is uh

[somber fulcrum]

roaring knight

[dull heart]

Not sorry

[lapis oak]

good

give me bad time

[dense sundial]

can you make ravager missile movement comprehensible

[dull heart]

it is comprehenible

[dense sundial]

also the head maybe

[dull heart]

It literally uses flying pet ai

iirc

[naive ice]

I know. I’m just tired.

[dense sundial]

WHAT

[naive ice]

I’ve been camping for 3 days and I’m going home today. So I’m making very bad choices thanks to being tired

[hasty tangle]

lmao

thats amazing

[dull heart]

I remember being told that

I should check

But last I was told yes it used flying pet ai

[boreal edge]

Pretty sure no

[naive ice]

…that’s funny as shit

[dull heart]

oh so sad

anyway no I'm not changing the nuke movement it's fine

[lapis oak]

I want to put you on the grill for this one

grilled shark for breakfast

[vivid hemlock]

kiri must die

[boreal edge]

Message loud and clear, you think it's peak

[lapis oak]

😨

[brave star]

NOOO YOURE SUPPOSED TO OBEY ME

[dull heart]

Ok yeah it's not floating pet ai

[brave star]

The seven anahita notes

[dull heart]

I was just bamboozled

It's pretty dang close though

[somber fulcrum]

What is it

[pine vortex]

CATCLOPS

[hard hearth]

i'd win

[analog helm]

it was noooobody..... noooooooobody..........

[hard copper]

purryphemus

[iron dew]

isnt it demon eye AI

[mystic eagle]

[mystic eagle]

No as those can't go trough blocks

[iron dew]

it is very easy to make things go through blocks

[dull heart]

Demon Eyes don't float around you aimlessly

Nukes do if you're close enough to them

[brazen siren]

is this real
please be real
I want to jumpscare my friends with this

[lapis oak]

no

[brazen siren]

💔

[boreal edge]

It's real (in GFB)

[lyric trellis]

Thankfully GFB isn't real

[lapis oak]

every day thanking my potato chips that GFB isn't real

[boreal edge]

Hey ombgus thoughts on adding 16 neutrinos to Kiri

[lyric trellis]

Probably a good idea idk

[boreal edge]

Perfect

[lapis oak]

wtf!!!

[misty wren]

wheres the drop

[lean relic]

Oh my god.

[buoyant pulsar]

sso tomorrow

[lapis oak]

is Dia's Terra Spear rework concept getting real? 🤔

[fathom girder]

Yharim: NOOO, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO OBEY ME!!!
The seven siren souls:

[pliant lantern]

be the bigger person 👍

[arctic cliff]

you mean...

[lapis oak]

yes

is it dead or still breathing

[stone zephyr]

woah

[cobalt wharf]

this feels weird

i can’t explain why

[lapis oak]

the MM Spear should be somewhat close-medium range

Exoblade has already gobbled up too much range

[rose laurel]

I AM MAKING CRAFTABLE LOOTBOXES

[dull heart]

L

[lapis oak]

LET

'S GO GAMBLING

right?

[lyric trellis]

Genshin pfp and making lootboxes…..

[rose laurel]

I am currently revising every fucking vanilla recipe Cal adds

Currently I have settled with

One thing

[lapis oak]

coming in SSO?

[rose laurel]

Probably because they're all simple to implement

[lapis oak]

cool

[rose laurel]

Basically what I settled with is that

There are only 2 chest loots that need recipes

Those being Sky and Dungeon loot

Sky and dungeon loot are very very easy to run out of

Everything else? No not at all

Running out of, say, Jungle loot

Would be fucking insane

Therefore

What if we just

Fucking removed every recipe outside of Sky and Dungeon loot

And just made everything else have shimmer chains?

[rose laurel]

With a few exceptions mind you

[lapis oak]

shimmer sounds great, especially now that we'll have a marking structure for it

[rose laurel]

Namely

Shit like Aglet

And also Flippers because crafting Diving Gear is lol

Lmao

[mystic eagle]

Looking back at changelogs, are the Podoboo Koi and Carrion Swarmer still happening

[dusk bronze]

carrion swallower?

[mystic eagle]

Pretty sure they can be found in any Water Chest

[rose laurel]

Yes but it sucks to find Water Chests

[mystic eagle]

You get what I mean

[rose laurel]

And in multiplayer servers you'll need like, 4 Flippers

[dull heart]

4 flippers with shimmer chains is really not hard to get

[rose laurel]

Or else half the server can't go to the Abyss

[mystic eagle]

just use journey mode smh

[lapis oak]

wait maximum player counts for Terraria is 4?

[dull heart]

no

8 for host and play

255 for dedicated servwr

[lapis oak]

aight

[rose laurel]

Ultimately I just think that everything that goes into the Diving Suit line should be incredibly easy to access to the player because otherwise that's needlessly halting their capacity to explore the Abyss

[dull heart]

ngl

[dusk bronze]

i just wish water chests were more common and they had useful shit more than 0.0000723% of the time

[dull heart]

I don't remember the last time I made diving suit over just using reaver explore hotswaps

[mystic eagle]

But the Baby Shark reference...

[lapis oak]

makes Trident meta

[rose laurel]

That's like if ULTRAKILL looked at you dead in the eye in 0-E when shit gets hot and said

"You need to go farm for an upgrade to be able to do this level"

[dull heart]

Trident is good nowadays

Holding it gives unlimited water mobility

[dusk bronze]

seriously throughout all my thousands of hours of playthroughs i've actually gotten water walking boots from a water chest maybe

six times

it's ridiculous

[fathom girder]

Good idea

[dull heart]

Water Walking Boots are so rare

[dense sundial]

i think they could have put the water mobility on swordfish

[fathom girder]

Maybe make parts of it drop from sulphurous sea minibosses?

idk

[rose laurel]

Every part will have better drop rates and/or recipes

[fathom girder]

Oh even better

[rose laurel]

Like, for the time being

[dull heart]

Trident also glows underwater

Huh

[naive ice]

Has Shattered Community always been dedicated to Ozz or was it dedicated to Fabsol before the purge? Because I’m genuinely unsure.

[dense sundial]

huh??

[dull heart]

Wait

Spear shimmers to trident

[dusk bronze]

it was dedicated before

[lapis oak]

ye

[rose laurel]

I will be adding recipes for Iron Boots, Anechoic Plating and Depth Charms

[naive ice]

Oh it was always dedicated to Ozz

[naive ice]

Yeah

[dusk bronze]

HYPE

[rose laurel]

Until we get around doing shit in the Abyss

And make those items just

Inherently renewable

[fathom girder]

amidias should sell them...

[dull heart]

no

[rose laurel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/704694434964439071/1284577245796634675/cat_gets_splash_stupid_idot.gif

[fathom girder]

AAA

[dull heart]

Zoologist will probably sell fledgling wings though

[naive ice]

Neat

[rose laurel]

But before you ask I don't intend on making those recipes like, super duper easily accessible lmao

[dusk bronze]

make them like infernum

1 per world 🔥 🔥

[dense sundial]

is this all 2.1 stuff or are you saving it for some patch

[naive ice]

That does make sense…

[rose laurel]

Iron Boots will be crafted with

Titanium

[lapis oak]

at 90% completion

[rose laurel]

Because it's cool

[dull heart]

Bestiary is like one of the only good shop things terraria has

[dull heart]

15%

[naive ice]

Real

[rose laurel]

Hopefully should be in SSO because it's pretty easy to do

[dense sundial]

ah yeah

[fathom girder]

My whole view on the abyss diving set is that it should be relatively simple to craft/farm because I'm pretty sure it's simple to get the maxed vanilla diving stuff

[rose laurel]

It's just tweaking and adding or removing recipes

There are some edge cases but they won't be problematic

[dull heart]

It is not easy to get vanilla diving stuff

[rose laurel]

Like making Pulse Bow drop from the Travelling Merchant if you kill him

[fathom girder]

I suhwear it wasn't that bad

[dull heart]

I don't think we should do that one still tbh

[dense sundial]

farming Sharks feels like shoving a corn cob up your rear end

[fathom girder]

I'm a nebraskan that's normal for us

[dull heart]

I think that pulse bow should be the same as everything else in his shop when we fix the shop

[dense sundial]

okay that's a little hyperbole

[fathom girder]

guess that's why I'm used to it

[rose laurel]

Yeah sure we can do that

When we, y'know

Fix the shop

[dull heart]

that should be really easy

[fathom girder]

SSO delayed another 5 months

[rose laurel]

Well if you get it done for SSO

Yeah

[dense sundial]

2.1 2027 !!

[dusk bronze]

sso september/october 2032

[dull heart]

2.1 in year 2.1k

[lapis oak]

that's optimistic

[mystic eagle]

SSO? More like SSC, Super Scope Creep

[rose laurel]

Oh I almost forgot to put Life Crystal recipes on my list because they really need an update jeez

[fathom girder]

the recipe needs an update? like, nerf or buff

[dusk bronze]

why does it have a recipe at all again

[mystic eagle]

Nerf maybe

[rose laurel]

This is a good basis but

Meh

[dull heart]

Multiplayer

[rose laurel]

Multiplayer

[fathom girder]

yeah was thinkin' it's a bit easy to make

at least kinda

[dull heart]

Ruby isn't super easy to find

[fathom girder]

rubies are easier to get in caverns nowadays right

[lapis oak]

because the other one is fishing

[rose laurel]

Very very messy recipe

[dusk bronze]

i saw someone suggest adding blood orbs

bc post eoc

[dull heart]

ngl I don't think that recipe is really that messy at all

[hard copper]

make them drop from nurse

[rose laurel]

I think it is because it doesn't have a "core" if that makes sense

[fathom girder]

TRUE

[mystic eagle]

❌

[dull heart]

the core is the healing potion

[rose laurel]

Making good recipes is a craft, believe it or not

[fathom girder]

Wouldn't ruby be the core?

[dull heart]

or the ruby

[dusk bronze]

then why are there 2

[fathom girder]

...or the rocks

[dull heart]

Depending on what you look for defining a coee

[fathom girder]

ugh okay no I see the point

[dull heart]

The rocks are definitely not a core

[fathom girder]

WAIT

[dusk bronze]

wat

[fathom girder]

Large ruby instead of 2 rubies >:)

[dull heart]

oh

[fathom girder]

There's your core

[dull heart]

goodness

[rose laurel]

Usually recipes are comprised of

• A core basis (what the item is physically made of)
• The magical nucleus (what gives the item power)
• General fluff or a tier lock (just whatever, really)

[dull heart]

I see

this has that

[fathom girder]

But that's where it's kinda weird

[rose laurel]

It doesn't have a core because it's split between rocks and rubies

[fathom girder]

because gems in terraria have power

[mystic eagle]

Why can't we just make a new ore called Life Crystalium that is used purely to create Life Crystals

[fathom girder]

also so do potions

[dull heart]

I'd say the core isn't the issue as much as

[dusk bronze]

average minecraft mod

[dull heart]

The catalyst is the issue

[fathom girder]

isn't that a thorium thing

[latent portal]

like that one from thorium mod

[fathom girder]

YEAH

[rose laurel]

Well, regardless

[hard copper]

Could be made with pink gel? Like its crystalized gel ig

[rose laurel]

The recipe can be better

[dull heart]

make it out of life fruit

[latent portal]

[dusk bronze]

where is it implied that pink gel is crystalized

[fathom girder]

Just sayin', if you want to use my genius idea of using a large ruby

[dusk bronze]

also pink gel is much too rare

[fathom girder]

it's there now

[dull heart]

large ruby is way too expensive

[fathom girder]

...2 ruby to 15 ruby nerf

yeah lmao

[rose laurel]

Ok now the question is WHAT THE FUCK IS AN ANECHOIC PLATING

[fathom girder]

BUT HEY that would make silt more relevant

[rose laurel]

AND WHY IS IT USED IN AN ABYSS ITEM

WHY DO YOU NEED SOUND PROTECTION IN THE ABYSS

[dusk bronze]

anechoic means something like "a thing that reduces noise"

[dull heart]

Anechoic plating is sound dampening plating

[fathom girder]

is sound ACTUALLY an abyss mechanic though

[dull heart]

So abyss creatures can't detect you as well

[cobalt wharf]

heartwarming: calamity developer plays the mod for the first time

[dull heart]

it's dark down there

[fathom girder]

or the detection thing even

[rose laurel]

Oh wait that's true

[dull heart]

How would they find you

[latent portal]

[dull heart]

Sounds, duh

[fathom girder]

I usually just bumrush the abyss anyway and treat it like any other biome

and enemies will see me anyway

it feels like a bit of an irrelevant mechanic

[latent portal]

yeah me too, i just put teleporters and now dying there isn't a problem

[rose laurel]

Gotta love the completely inconsequential stealth of the Abyss

[latent portal]

agree

[dull heart]

Oh hey reb

[cobalt wharf]

the impenetrable darkness of the deep sea when it sees my elemental dust machine

[dusk bronze]

maybe it will be better when the abyss is actually well designed

[dull heart]

did you know there's already a shimmer cycle for iron boots and anechoic

[still bluff]

time to buff the fuck out of the enemies so you have to stealth or you die

[lapis oak]

Rebecca plays Calamity for the first time (emotional)

[latent portal]

WHAT

[fathom girder]

oh god

[latent portal]

REALLY

[lapis oak]

ye

[rose laurel]

Yes I know but it's still easy to run out of them

[dull heart]

Sure but the creatures probably have pretty bad eyes or none at all

[dusk bronze]

and depth charm

[latent portal]

oh my god and i was fishing for those things when i couldn't find them, how dumb

[rose laurel]

You still need three of them to make one Abyssal Diving Suit

[dull heart]

like good luck finding me by eyes when I'm glowing like the sun

[rose laurel]

That's three Abyss chests burnt out of like

[dense sundial]

Ever heard of bioluminescence buddy

[rose laurel]

20?

[dull heart]

bioluminescence is not anywhere near the brightness of me swinging elemental Shiv

[rose laurel]

Assuming 15 of those will have weapons that's 1 and 2/3 of an Abyssal Diving Suit you can make

Not even enough for two players

[dull heart]

it's like staring into the sun I'd imagine

[dense sundial]

Alright true

[fathom girder]

I could take it

[dull heart]

same

[lapis oak]

I stared into the sun as a kid am I cooked

[dull heart]

Staring into the sun is fun

[dusk bronze]

honestly the post skeletron abyss weapons are weird because it just piles on the terraria issue of there already being completely irrelevant dungeon loot AND shadow chest stuff literally right after

[dense sundial]

I’d imagine Abyss animals have pretty good eyes to be able to pick up bioluminescence anyway

[dull heart]

yeah saying bad eyes is misleading

[cobalt wharf]

not really?

[rose laurel]

Assuming more optimal odds of like, 12 weapons and 8 accessories

[dull heart]

Eyes tuned for small light

Not bright light

[cobalt wharf]

that’s a separate issue

[rose laurel]

2 and 2/3 Abyssal Diving Gear suits which

Yeah

Still not good

[latent portal]

yeah i have never understood the dungeon weapons from the chests

[fathom girder]

the moth with eyes attuned to dim lights when I summon the entire goddamn sun in front of it:

[dusk bronze]

the issue is "too many conflicting post skeletron weapons"

[rose laurel]

At absolute bare minimum

[dull heart]

yeah shadow chests suck

Some of my favorite weapons but

[cobalt wharf]

yeah and none of the abyss weapons conflict with them except for like archerfish kind of

[rose laurel]

I want there to be enough material for 3 players to make whatever the fuck they want

[dull heart]

Horrible placement

[fathom girder]

Shadow chests at least can be fished up

I forget

[latent portal]

you can fish

[fathom girder]

are there abyss adjacent crates

that have abyss items

[dull heart]

I should make fishing cool

[rose laurel]

Kindly

Fuck fishing

[dusk bronze]

yes

[rose laurel]

Hatred aside

[fathom girder]

okay it's been awhile since I've engaged with the abyss lol

[rose laurel]

Fishing is a last resort and I absolutely DO NOT want to rely on it

[cobalt wharf]

only accessible post slime god tho 😊

[rose laurel]

If you have to resort to fishing, that's because you REALLY just

Scoured the entire fucking world

[dusk bronze]

yeah terraria uses fishing as a crutch SO FUCKING MUCH

[fathom girder]

ig fishing is still so hated that doing runs involving it are usually challenge runs

[dull heart]

it would be fine if

Fishing didn't suck

give me good fishing

[latent portal]

[rose laurel]

Even then I don't think it would because of how many instances you'd have to resort to it

[lapis oak]

fishing is so ass 🥀

[mystic eagle]

Totally real not fake concept art by yours truly (fake concept art). Glowy abyss fishy with shit eyes

[cobalt wharf]

name one fishing system that is fun after several hours

[rose laurel]

Like, we do have moments where I think fishing will become fairly common, namely

[cobalt wharf]

there isn’t one

[rose laurel]

For Shadow Chests and Abyss weapons

[dull heart]

Irl fishing

[fathom girder]

I like terraria fishing when there are specific items that you can only get from fishing

like uh, the bladetongue

[dusk bronze]

that doesn't fix the issue of fishing being the dedicated "non renewable items dumping ground"

[dull heart]

I don't think that's an inherent issue on its own

[mystic eagle]

None

[rose laurel]

I think those two will be fished fairly often, but also that's not really a problem

[latent portal]

it doesn't have to be fun after several hours

[rose laurel]

Because Shadow Chest items barely ever upgrade

[dense sundial]

Infection weapon fish are thankfully not that hard to obtain

And then there’s Golden Crate

[fathom girder]

heehoo

[rose laurel]

And Abyss weapons also don't

[fathom girder]

we love golden crate

[dull heart]

the problem isn't that fishing isn't fun after several hours

it's that it takes several hours to begin with while also not being very fun to begin with

[rose laurel]

Anyways the one item I'm definitely the most conflicted about here

Is

Frog Leg

I genuinely don't know what to do about Frog Leg's recipe

[dusk bronze]

oh god

[dull heart]

Frog leg is

[fathom girder]

MORE FROGS

[mystic eagle]

Remove the recipe

[still bluff]

lock it behind a random jungle crafting component

[fathom girder]

Idk frog leg could be some sorta alchemical recipe

[still bluff]

instead of forg

[dull heart]

1% chance from killing frogs

[cobalt wharf]

what exactly is the issue

[mystic eagle]

It's frequent enough when fishing

[fathom girder]

get some potions and stuff them into a frog

[cobalt wharf]

other than the recipe being slightly illogical

[latent portal]

that would be funny

[fathom girder]

bam frog leg

[dull heart]

it's way too easy rn imo

To the point that one of the specifically fishing items is

easier and quicker to get without fishing

[rose laurel]

On one hand, Frog Leg is an exclusive fishing drop and the only one we add a recipe for

[latent portal]

that's so sad

[fathom girder]

My little idea would tie it to blood moon if you wanna get the potions quickly

though idk it doesn't need a recipe, does it

[rose laurel]

On the other hand, it's also the most universal fishing drop while being really damn fun to fuck around, SPECIALLY early game

[lyric trellis]

Frog Leg now drops from nuclear toads

[dull heart]

I lean towards remove it if we have to pick

[rose laurel]

My problem is that Frog Leg is just

[dull heart]

but there's gotta be a good middle ground

[rose laurel]

Really fucking fun to use

[lapis oak]

add frog boss that drops 10 frog legs per kill

[rose laurel]

And I don't want to subject people to fishing to get what is like

[lapis oak]

preboss boss

[rose laurel]

Top 2 most fun phm accessories

[latent portal]

[fathom girder]

What about... making it more common during fishing, and then make them shimmer into 7 frogs

and remove the recipe

[rose laurel]

Only behind Sandstorm in a Bottle my beloved

[fathom girder]

so if you're fishing and get a shitton of them you can turn them into free bait

[dull heart]

wulfrum Acrobatics Pack:

[fathom girder]

instead of them being useless if you get them too often

[dusk bronze]

snadstomr... ❤️

[latent portal]

nobody uses that buddy

[dull heart]

not true

[dense sundial]

Frogs aren’t bait what

[rose laurel]

They will now Doze made WAP PEAK

[dense sundial]

Or are they

[rose laurel]

Even peaker

[dull heart]

please don't say it like that

[fathom girder]

oh yeah I'm definitely gonna WAP all over the place with the uh

...rework

[dusk bronze]

the official shortening is "wacro"

[latent portal]

yes its true

[fathom girder]

gonna replace wings

[rose laurel]

Are you talking about WAP or about saying you made it peak?

[dull heart]

:explods

[fathom girder]

lmao

[lapis oak]

he wants the wacro not wap

[latent portal]

i just want to try the new gravity globe

[cobalt wharf]

haven’t thought about wap in like 5 years

[rose laurel]

But yeah

[fathom girder]

Sounds like you've got a trip ahead of you for fixing up recipes

[rose laurel]

I'm conflicted on Frog Leg and agree with Doze that there HAS to be a good middle ground

[fathom girder]

aaAAAAA did you see my idea

🥺

[rose laurel]

I would like to untie it to fishing but uuuuugh

I don't knwo

[dull heart]

good fishing system would be the best solution imo...

[fathom girder]

fishing should have something

[rose laurel]

It's weird to untie it from fishing when it's one of the few fishing exclusive rewards

[hard copper]

Add it to jungle planetoids?

[latent portal]

i think would be better to make fishing actually good

[rose laurel]

But also FUCK IT'S SO GOOD TO USE

[fathom girder]

I'd argue removing relevance from fishing is the same as the reaver shark nerf reversion that Fab pulled

[latent portal]

tbh i already love fishing lol

[hard copper]

The ones with the little lakes in them

[dusk bronze]

that's a good idea

[dull heart]

that's so easy

[fathom girder]

as long as it isn't overused then it should be fine I'd say

[dull heart]

jungle planetoids are also really easy to get to and faster than fishing it

[rose laurel]

Yeah

[fathom girder]

it would reward exploration

[dull heart]

however it is obtained it needs to not replace fishing being the main method

[dull heart]

We can do that without stealing a fishing item

[fathom girder]

right yeah

[dusk bronze]

doze

when trying to unfuck terraria fishing, there are no good solutions

[fathom girder]

no no no

[dull heart]

lies

[latent portal]

lmao

[fathom girder]

you don't understand

[dull heart]

I have a plan to make fishing good

[rose laurel]

Ok

YOU KNOW WHAT?

[dull heart]

it's top secret

[rose laurel]

THAT'S IT

[fathom girder]

the solution is to create an accessory made from wulfrum that enhances fishing in a completely new way

[latent portal]

lies

[rose laurel]

I'M KILLING FROG LEG RECIPE

[dull heart]

based

[fathom girder]

YEAHHHH

[latent portal]

[hard copper]

[dull heart]

genuinely

I am considering something similar

[dusk bronze]

🎉

[dense sundial]

Please don’t do a “fishing rework” for Calamity with proper new mechanics or something

[dull heart]

but the accesory is also a fishing pole

[fathom girder]

turn it into stardew valley fishing and then it gives you like 10x rewards depending on how well you fish

problem solved you can thank me never

[dull heart]

it would be only changing calamity fishing poles to have different fishing mechanics

[dense sundial]

Oh alright

[dull heart]

not universal

[iron dew]

maybe im the minority but fishing is not as terrible as you guys are acting like it is

[dull heart]

Or it would be accessory tied

[dense sundial]

Something like Chum Caster or WotG’s Dreamcatcher

[dull heart]

yes

I have ideas for wulfrum pole at least

and feral double rod

[rose laurel]

Fishing isn't atrocious I just think it's mind numbingly boring

[fathom girder]

it's very tedious

[rose laurel]

And I DESPISE that it's used as such a massive crutch for renewability in Vanilla

[dull heart]

I am also genuinely considering making fishing poles also work as accesories

[dense sundial]

I wouldn’t say mind-numbing but it’s definitely comparatively boring

[dull heart]

equip a fishing pole and that fishing style gets used on all fishing poles you use

[dense sundial]

Me with shimmer, honestly

[mossy sapphire]

what does the dreamcatcher even do

[fathom girder]

y'know how fishing poles are made? you could maybe pull a yoyo accessories thing

have like, a reel accessory

[rose laurel]

I don't mind fishing having unique rewards, the problem is that if you need a specific item and you are having trouble with it

[fathom girder]

a rod accessory

[rose laurel]

The answer is either continue looking for the needle in the haystack

[fathom girder]

a line accessory

[rose laurel]

Or fishing

[fathom girder]

things like that

[dense sundial]

Casts three hooks; one catches normally, one only catches quests, and one only catches crates

[mossy sapphire]

ooo

not as effecient for normal fishing but very useful otherwise

[dull heart]

My poles would be a little different

in that it would actually fundamentally change how you fish

[dense sundial]

I don’t think it’s the most interesting example but it’s an example

[latent portal]

we will be able to fish with harpoon?

[rose laurel]

Recipes were an attempt at solving Vanilla's renewability issue, but also the general "grindness" of the game

Problem

It went so fucking far that it turned the game into a Boss rush

[latent portal]

true

[dull heart]

we should just make a loot box that can drop any obtainable item at your stage in progression

[dense sundial]

That was Fa

[dull heart]

Renewable solved

[fathom girder]

Reb literally just mentioned making craftable lootboxes

lul

[rose laurel]

Therefore what I'm doing is pulling back on the recipes, but offering replacements for renewability

[dull heart]

yeah but reb meant Golden Lock Box

[rose laurel]

And also making things like, slightly easier to get

Which

I don't think is bad!

Remember Calamity practically doubles Terraria's content

The game has to be faster

Or else each playthrough will last 20 years

[dense sundial]

There are 400 Terraria weapons and 700 Calamity weapons (this is Not a good thing)

[rose laurel]

However, the game being faster doesn't mean

[fathom girder]

BOSS RUSH

[rose laurel]

"Fucking craft everything"

It means

"Getting a specific item is easier"

[dusty tinsel]

How many of those calamity weapons are post moon lord

[dense sundial]

Hey what if you make it significantly easier to obtain the dials, buff them, and do something about Cosmolight

[rose laurel]

I am going to do something about Cosmolight alright?

I already have

[dense sundial]

Ah

[rose laurel]

Very elaborate plans about it infact

[fathom girder]

700 calamity weapons because they're funny and cool

don't harsh their brows

[rose laurel]

Tl;dr move Cosmolight to Post ML

Make it require an amount of Light and Night Souls to use

Place an item that freezes time in its place in Early HM

[latent portal]

i already have cosmolight always in pre-hm

[dense sundial]

Ohh yeah I think that makes sense

Particularly if post-ML Hives drop souls, although they wouldn’t provide Light I guess

[rose laurel]

Thing I wrote a while ago

[hard copper]

Youd have to carry souls around with you?

[iron dew]

i like the idea of an item that slows time down

[rose laurel]

The biggest reason Cosmolight exists is because otherwise it's impossible to make Mech Bosses hard

Enjoy dying twice and having to wait for the next night

And then doing that 10 times

Times three

[fathom girder]

yippee...

[dense sundial]

Why are mechs night bosses anyway 🥀

[rose laurel]

Ask Vanilla

Anyways a timestop solves this issue

You can just

Keep night going forever

And you can grind Mech Bosses however long you want

[latent portal]

i never though about it as an issue in a long time, good solution

[rose laurel]

And whatever other timed boss you want

[fathom girder]

I like the timestop idea

[latent portal]

you should try journey mode

[dense sundial]

A lot less than one might think because 1.4 beds exist, but it’s still a lot

[rose laurel]

It is also, ironically, better than Cosmolight at mass farming events like Moons and Eclipse

And allows you to make AFK farms for those

Which I would consider a good thing because all four of those events have unique Calamity stuff to them

[lapis oak]

beds are so slow 🫠

[rose laurel]

For now, Seasonal Moons won't in the future

[lapis oak]

looking at screen like I'm playing an idle game

[dusty tinsel]

Me on my way to make a blood moon farm and then forgetting I had my game on for like multiple hours

[rose laurel]

Potions

Infinte potions

But no potions

[pine vortex]

Jschlat mention

[dense sundial]

Is the existence of Solar Veil (almost called it Lunar Veil) up in the air

[rose laurel]

Solar Veil will likely continue to exist and be expanded upon

[dense sundial]

Expansion seems better ig

[rose laurel]

It also actually works as an event blocker if you really think about it

But we should still add event blockers because yeah they are good

Accelerating time is doable within Vanilla as I said and in the future if you really need to go fast you'll get Cosmolight in Post ML

[hasty tangle]

is this planned for sso btw

or just at some point in the future

[rose laurel]

Probably not happening in SSO

But I absolutely think it should be in Part 2 because otherwise uuuuuuuuuuh

Enjoy! You just unlocked an infinite Wrath Potion farm!

:D

[latent portal]

please, i hate it is only useful for rogue

[dense sundial]

Is something being done with blood orbs in 2.2 or what

[pine vortex]

Make sleep time 5x fast

[rose laurel]

I remember one idea I wanted to have was like

Make so Blood Orbs don't craft options

But they unlock alternate recipes

Where you can use Blood Orbs to increase the yield of any potion you want, given you have the means of making it

So let's say you have the materials to make 1 Lifeforce potion

Put some Blood Orbs in there, you can make 3 for the cost of one

Personally, I would make so doing this requires something from the Crags

Because I don't think bulk crafting potions should be available so early into the game

But I also don't think it's something so strong that it needs to be locked to Post ML

[lapis oak]

post Brimstone Elemental

[rose laurel]

Yeah

And then like

If I wanted to be funny

Make a Post SCal upgrade

That makes the yield even better

[vivid hemlock]

holy shit alchemy table upgrade tree

[lapis oak]

everything progression

[rose laurel]

Byeah after Blood Orbs I think the last of the old "fuck grinding" mechanics that needs to be looked at is Zerg

But Zerg is also the hardest one of them all

Because it's not really problematic

I had this idea where like

Zerg wouldn't start at full power

And then after 5ish minutes it reaches max power and spawn rates go nuts

At the same time I also imagined the possibility of making Zerg make you take 2 times damage

Ultimately if we do change Zerg I think the best option would be to add skill expression to it

Instead of nerfing it, just make it harder to capitalize on

And then my ultimate crackhead idea

Make Zerg Potion actually just turbofuck spawn rates

But give you a completely unique moveset of throwing hands

[lapis oak]

Sunny writing 3 whole google doc of "no" with this one

[rose laurel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/767950470874398720/956000393773604874/E7cOxZZWQAE_I3C.gif

[orchid finch]

"The fuck around to find out curve" potion

[rose laurel]

Byeah I don't think what Zerg accomplishes is a problem, basically

[latent portal]

i love that gif is so cute

[rose laurel]

I just think that, due to what the game eventually becomes

It just means you hold M1 and do nothing

Because let's be real here guys I don't think anyone likes farming for the 2% drop you need to make your core class accessory

At least, not for half an hour

But that's not because the droprates are super small or whatever (well it's part of it)

No it's because the process is holding M1

Therefore, that's what I think Zerg should accomplish

Making grinding for that 2% drop way faster

But also make it more involved

Now, if you'll excuse me but

I LOVE GAME DESIGN!!!!!!!!

Also if you're wondering, no I don't need the opposite needs to be done for Zen potion

The problem with Zerg is that it cuts down on grinding but replaces it with nothing, making the experience shorter and equally as boring. It's just boring for a shorter period of time

[fathom girder]

Yay add stat bloat yayyy

[rose laurel]

Zen Potion is used when you don't want to focus on combat

[fathom girder]

100% more health, speed and damage

[lapis oak]

Zen should makes you take 0.5 damage of course

[rose laurel]

It's for when you want to just go building

[dusk bronze]

or f*shing

[rose laurel]

Zen is exclusively made for you to interact with other parts of the game

So

There's absolutely no reason to touch it

[fathom girder]

Yet at least

[rose laurel]

It doesn't make the game faster, it makes the game slower

[fathom girder]

Once the boss rush gets taken out back and shot, it'll see more relevance I bet

[rose laurel]

Not really, the only time Zen Potion is really usable is if you're like

[lapis oak]

🤔 ? what does boss rush has to do with Zen

[rose laurel]

SPECIFICALLY going after a wordly resource

But if we want to solve that just

Make Zen not work in specific biomes

Abyss? Crags?

[fathom girder]

The general idea behind this entire convo pretty sure

[rose laurel]

Sorry fam, Zen ain't working

[silk pebble]

furina .w.

[rose laurel]

Hi that's me

[fathom girder]

Basically how to tweak the game to be less boss rush and actually have the player interact with the game but in a faster manner as opposed to skipping it all or making it the same but faster and that's it

[rose laurel]

Byeah the unholy trinity of boss rush are

[silk pebble]

yas. still wondering what is the progress with the scal updated dialogue.

[fathom girder]

So if mod is less boss rush, then I figure zen would be more useful. That's what was swimming in my brain

[rose laurel]

The countless recipes, Cosmolight and Zerg

I have solutions for two of those already

One is almost certainly being at least partly solved in SSO

Cosmolight hopefully will in the near future

[fathom girder]

...recipes I assume?

[rose laurel]

And then Zerg will take a while because

I need to figure out how to solve it

[dusk bronze]

we need to kill ai artist cosmolight

[fathom girder]

Tossing my hat in the ring again

Zerg could force some sorta event similar to frost or pumpkin moon in any given biome

Which would be a shitton of work

[rose laurel]

As I've said in this convo, what Zerg accomplishes isn't a problem. What is a problem is that Zerg replaces a boring slog looking for an item for a tremendously shorter, but still boring, slog

[lapis oak]

forced event 😭

[dusk bronze]

using zerg during a death blood moon should instantly explode you

[fathom girder]

Lmao

[dusk bronze]

peak game design

[rose laurel]

So the solution I'd like to seek is to just make Zerg actually require the player to interact with the dozens of enemies that are approaching

[fathom girder]

The "how" for that sounds rather complex

[rose laurel]

I unironically think the best solution of the few I came up with would be the fucking

[fathom girder]

Especially given how every class interacts with enemy hordes

[rose laurel]

Strip you of your items

You become the doom slayer

Rip and tear

[dusk bronze]

that could be neat

[sand dome]

Cage match, trapped in a box, final destination

[fathom girder]

3 lives no items

[brave star]

Will there be an actual snowgrave in calamity

[rose laurel]

what

[sand dome]

Realistically any option would feel too limiting to player freedom, it could just be a thing that exists for people who don’t really want to grind but for people who don’t mind it they could just ignore it

[rose laurel]

I don't think it'd be necessarily limiting of player freedom as long as we don't

Creative shock.

[fathom girder]

This would be rather tricky wouldn't it? Wouldn't you have to figure out scaling for each stage of the game, as well as figure out a kit that can actually handle enemies of all kinds?

[rose laurel]

Which I have no intention of making

[boreal edge]

omg hi

[rose laurel]

It would, yes

Though I think the scaling part is what's hard

A moveset? Not so much

[boreal edge]

Why are we giving an entire moveset and gear to a potion

[rose laurel]

Read my insane ranting

[fathom girder]

Make it an accessory >:)

[boreal edge]

No sorry you already lost me no matter what it says

[lapis oak]

you don't wanna know

[dusk bronze]

read it

[lapis oak]

schizo talk

[fathom girder]

The context was a zerg potion rework on the basis of trying to restructure the things that turn calamity into a boss rush

Roughly

And the doomslayer showed up

[rose laurel]

The tl;dr is just that Zerg Potion is slightly problematic in the sense that it accelerates the game but doesn't entirely cut down on what makes grinding enemies boring

Therefore, I think the solution to make Zerg Potion not problematic is to make so it is far more involved in a way that forces you to deal with the horde of monsters that are approaching you

[fathom girder]

Reminds me of the dungeon defenders event in vanilla

Kinda

[rose laurel]

I think there are many ways of accomplishing this, however my personal favorite idea would be making so the player is stripped and put in a position where they can't just Hold M1 and win

[boreal edge]

That sounds intrusive and scope-creepy to hell

[rose laurel]

I mean yeah but it's cool, and if it's not liked then all I'll do is iterate on it more

[dusk bronze]

i have idea

[fathom girder]

Y'know, weren't draedon turrets made for this

Making farming easier

[lyric trellis]

Zerg's downside is that you can't just use it for free or else you'll risk dying by being overwhelmed, and if enemies are too weak then that's an enemy/weapon problem (which we know cal has)

[rose laurel]

That's true

[boreal edge]

Though like I don't understand what the problem is with grinding being made easier by the swarming spawns

[rose laurel]

It could be that once Cal has actually meaningful enemies, Zerg will become more involved

[rose laurel]

The problem isn't that it's made easier, it's that it doesn't change what makes it boring

[lyric trellis]

Enemies with more than 5hp

[rose laurel]

Instead of holding M1 for half an hour

You hold M1 for 10 minutes

[boreal edge]

This sounds more like an overarching problem of finding grinding in general boring

Not specific to Zerg Potion

[dusk bronze]

so yknow how stomp said to make zerg an accessory?
while i don't like that, i was thinking of how to de-potionify it and what if:

it's a furniture item that increases spawnrates in a radius around it, and the aura does whatever reb wants it to do to the player
(kinda like the really really old scrapped demon trophy event)

[boreal edge]

Chaos Candle

[dusk bronze]

but better

[rose laurel]

The fusion.....

[boreal edge]

Is that a Dragon Ball Z reference

[rose laurel]

No it's a fusion of three fucking items

[lyric trellis]

Bringing back demon trophy to be permanant zerg

[rose laurel]

I don't think it's a terrible idea to make Zerg into a Pylon of sorts

[lapis oak]

Terraria Otherworld

[rose laurel]

That does help with the case of

If the problem is that it's a potion, yeah here it is

And there are many, many ways of making fighting endless hordes of mobs fun

Being really evil for a second

If it was a pylon

We could make so it took a specific amount of resources to activate

And it functioned like the OOA crystal

[lyric trellis]

Make every weapon into Grand Dad and then it'll be fun

[rose laurel]

Where if it was killed

It will deactivate

So now your objective isn't just staying alive

It's also making sure the Zerg pylon isn't deactivated

But even if it was, not the end of the world

You just gotta spend a few extra resources to go back to the slaughterhouse

I really like this idea, honestly

It's the simplest way of solving the issue I think

And unlike OOA it won't have the stupid fucking restrictions, allowing you to, should you please, construct an AFK farm around it

Still gotta make it have a time limit though

[dense sundial]

i like making it chaos candle tooltip taken literally

[rose laurel]

Only problem is that it'd probably be too easy to protect with blocks

But eh

[naive ice]

Huh?

[rose laurel]

Can probably add a check that like

[dense sundial]

maybe it could do a raycast for that

[rose laurel]

You can't cover it in blocks

[dusk bronze]

this housing is not suitable

[rose laurel]

But you can still make pitfalls, set traps and whatnot

[dense sundial]

make it apply death mode speed inflation

[rose laurel]

But even then I'd be willing to just

Let players cover it in blocks sure

[dusk bronze]

wait actually it might be able to utilize meme's pathfinding algorithm to see if the enemies can still reach it

[rose laurel]

There are many enemies that go through

Could make the pylon specially fragile too

Not "one hit and you're out" but weaker than the crystal I mean

[naive ice]

What are we talking about

[rose laurel]

My insane ramblings on how to fix some of Cal's breakneck progression speed

Or, at the bare minimum, make them more fun

[naive ice]

Oh.

[rose laurel]

I already mentioned that I don't think Cal can afford to flow at the same speed as Vanilla

The Mod adds twice the content, making it stay at the same speed would make every playthrough last 20 years

But also, it's too fast at the moment

And there's too little substance

In the future, perhaps Cal can actually afford to take 20 years per playthrough

But right now? Nah

[lapis oak]

I can't wait for all of the Calamity broadswords to be different than usestyle1

[pearl sentinel]

no it should cuz if i start a playthrough now then yharim will be out by the time i reach

um

[lapis oak]

that has to be the day of big celebration

[pearl sentinel]

approximately astrum deus i think

[shell sapphire]

I want this to be real so bad. It looks extremely cool.

[rose laurel]

Hey CST

What the fuck is Depths Charm meant to be

[strong isle]

Rebecca, I think it's supposed to be a Charm

[lyric trellis]

A charm of the depth

[lapis oak]

looks like a black swan figure

[dusk bronze]

it's pluey

[brave star]

Abyss swan

[hard copper]

Pretty sure the black bits is a ribbon, not a swan, loops through the middle of the charm as well.

[orchid finch]

honestly I always saw this as some metallic... thing idfk, what does the depths charm even do

it has a display sprite and it's located on a knee of all things

[brave star]

Was about to ask if it was upcoming but I was a dum dum bc it’s being used rn

[orchid finch]

a kneepad that magically reduces the harmful effects of the Abyss

[summer shore]

It's a pendant of some kind

[terse dew]

Turtle

[wide nova]

nba youngboy

shoot dang!

[fiery rampart]

I just finished jjba part 6

[misty wren]

thats nice why does that matter here

[fiery rampart]

Its so peak🥺🥺

[unborn aspen]

mystery nonsense created by deranged spriters

its being resprited though ..!

[wide nova]

its a moldy alarm clock horseshoe(????) with a hook on top(????????)

art!

[vapid estuary]

Tf?

Looks like a charm that is working like a talisman to protect from bad things

[orchid finch]

sir this is #calamity-update-talk not https://discord.com/channels/796008476635430924/796353679115419648

[tropic ermine]

a really fucked up bong

[clear compass]

When new changelogs

Ahhhhhhhh

[tropic ermine]

the logs... they ain't changin

[clear compass]

logs….. logs never change

[stuck kite]

🪵

[hazy pine]

Noli before sso

[plush carbon]

please don’t bring fors*ken into this

[azure oak]

45 days until time between BH and SSO part 1 is longer than between R&D and draedon update

[lean relic]

dang

[hazy pine]

I'll do what I want

[azure oak]

exo mechs rework at some mysterious undefined point in time

ares

[granite smelt]

forsaken is mid

[plush carbon]

its worse than mid my guy

i block every forsaken fan on sight

[azure oak]

buh

[tame ridge]

forsaken itself is a pretty whatever game but my god the fandom and devs suck

[plush carbon]

Well here’s the thing I hate DBD itself

It’s a given I wouldn’t like DBD but roblox

It being on roblox just means it has an even worse community somehow

[fathom girder]

yeah, because now it's all children

or manchildren

as opposed to DBD being only uh... MOSTLY manchildren

[plush carbon]

Dbd’s community is already notoriously toxic

I have ex-friends I lost because of how DBD noticeably changed them

Tbh i stopped playing roblox entirely it’s kinda just not worth it nowadays

[valid crypt]

Fair enough

[plush carbon]

This was quite a spoilerous talk

[stuck kite]

moon runes

i have no idea what any of that meant

except roblox i know what that one is

[plush carbon]

don’t worry about it

not worth it

[stuck kite]

big things are happening

unfortunately they're unspoilerable

[plush carbon]

Noooooo

The drought is upon us we need another ares

[stuck kite]

have something pointless

messages

[true oriole]

I thought it's supposed to be a respiratory mask from another side

[valid crypt]

Ima be honest i thiught it was a horse shoe

[true oriole]

But considering it's placement on the player sheet, I'm not sure anymore

(it's placed on the belt)

[lean relic]

yeah

[azure oak]

nhgnghnhggnehhrghrnghrnghnghgngrhgrnrrrr

[stuck kite]

itsa charm i think

[lean relic]

NOT AGAIN

[azure oak]

how

[stuck kite]

[azure oak]

how do people see those images and think it's legit

[stuck kite]

can ppl get less gullible Thanks!

[valid crypt]

Again??

How much money is mr bees giving people

[azure oak]

18 cases of beer

[still bluff]

please do send modmails when one of those comes up, especially if it sits there for a while like one of those did
they're just image embeds so they don't get flagged, and i don't lurk here 24/7 to catch them right away

[azure oak]

might be a bit of a bystander effect thing where everyone expects someone else to send in a modmail, resulting in noone sending a modmail

[valid crypt]

Ok

[stuck kite]

i wonder if the image links they send are the same everytime and if so can those links specifically just get eaten

i know its gonna be wack a mole if you do that

[still bluff]

pretty much just not worth it, yea
block one and it's different 15 minutes later

[still bluff]

send 5 modmails please it is better

[valid crypt]

Alright

[azure oak]

aight

[plush carbon]

what if I say no

[azure oak]

your SSO privileges will be revoked

[plush carbon]

concerning

[still bluff]

the ban rebounds and hits you instead :3

[fathom girder]

They are

[azure oak]

raverger

[fathom girder]

Flesh mimic

[summer shore]

5 meter tall guy

[dense prawn]

ravagin time

[fringe quiver]

Flesh edwin

[fathom girder]

Who the hell is edwin

[analog helm]

flesh david

[fathom girder]

????