lore-discussion

[raven brook]

it dosent but its kinda boring ngl

if you're gonna add alt obtainment methods atleast make it interesting

just getting 50 diff items from chests is really boring

[long bloom]

perhaps

[raven brook]

and it feels less like "alt obtainment" and more like "there is no reason for you to ever buy these from the travelling merchant ever"

a good alt obtainment method shouldnt completely trivialize the alternatives and it should still require some effort

[dusk laurel]

why do the ashen chests have slurper poles it already drops from an enemy from the same biome right

[raven brook]

i mentioned in spoiler talk the other day but iirc in sso

there were plans for amidias quests to serve as alt obtainment for some items

and like

see now THAT'S cool

ofc depends on the item

but that's an actually interesting way of alt obtainment that makes you engage with the game's mechanics and isnt just

find all 20 items you need for this accessory fusion in this one chest you can find in 2 seconds by exploring a little bit

[eager bluff]

need extendo grip? ooooh sorry! stopwatch
brick layer? ooooh sorry! companion cube
etc etc

[raven brook]

you will never have to engage with any of their original obtainment methods ever again

[hoary cape]

angler fishing quests, but actually something people want to do

[eager bluff]

for a lot of traveling merchants items they're basically purely vanity so its kinda fine that they arent consistent but gizmo pack parts do have an upgrade line for The Building And Mining Accessory™ so those having consistent obtainment methods is good

[raven brook]

See here's the thing usually i just get those as i play through the game, specially some of the most important ones cuz theyre fairly common

Like if he dosen't have what you need him to you can kinda just go and do something else in the meantime, i think its only a issue when it's really really rare items that are actually relatively useful. like the sergeant uniteds shield is actually a pretty good weapon and its kinda sad how its so rng based

all of the cellphone accs are pretty damn common from my experience

[wanton pendant]

At least have it not be in one chest.

[hoary cape]

i have never once gotten the companion cube

[raven brook]

it kinda feels like people wanting to rush through things and get it Right Now i want it Now

[raven brook]

ive gotten it twice i think

[hoary cape]

not often i have 2plat on me when he sells it

[eager bluff]

ok but like for building thats a reasonable want because thats what everyone tells you to do to slow down games

[raven brook]

im not arguing on the bulding accessories front (though i mean you can still just build without them)

im just saying ive never had a issue with the travelling merchant save for yeah the extremely rare items that are actually useful i think those are a bit lame

[sinful adder]

What if it's meant to be a replacement because the other way sucks

[split mortar]

Ive seen the cube a lot but i never buy it

[eager bluff]

im specifically saying for those its nice to have consistency, usually i dont have an issue with traveling merchant

and yeah i think them all just being thrown in a chest is fucking lame

[raven brook]

yeah a consistent way to obtain them would be nice but just stuffing them all in a chest on a structure on the surface is boring as hell and dosen't need the player ot engage with the gmae in the slightest

lowk hear me out

what if some of them could be dropped from the reworked wulfrum enemies

i have no idea what the plans for those guys are

[long bloom]

hrmmmmmmm

[raven brook]

but i do know that stip atleast found the idea of leaning further in the utilitarian for them rather than militaristic would be cool and i agree

and with that direction in mind it could make alot of sense

[raven brook]

well replacing a obtainment method that sucks with another one that also sucks or different reasons isnt exactly good either

[young socket]

for the trav merchant ones it just picks one of em at random iirc

[timber glacier]

I feel like one way the building accs could be less tedious is to make them shimmer cycle through them all, so the travelling merchant is still were you initially get them but aren’t tediously waiting to get all of them individually

Like doesn’t cal do this with the travelling merchant info accs? I have a feeling I remember it doing that

[raven brook]

I feel like there's a bit of overreliance on shimmer these days

Feels like alot of the time rather than thinking about fun ways you could add item obtainments people just go "eh, sure, shimmer"

[long bloom]

true

[raven brook]

which like it works but damn it does feel like kind of a waste sometimes

I think shimmer is at its best when you can get unique items out of it

like the vanilla permabuffs and such

[wanton pendant]

Back in my day, if we didn't get an item we had to grind for it.
I spent HOURS getting a Nazar once.
Please add a better way to get it post-Moon Lord.

[raven brook]

But yeah it really is a issue with almost all calamity loot chests

like holy shit dude TWELVE potions what the hell

and thats probably one of the tamest ones really

[wanton pendant]

Just a little QoL.

[timber glacier]

Why does it have mushrooms in it!?

Whats the point of that

[wanton pendant]

I don't know, in case Slime God is hungry?

[raven brook]

i guess it's because it's the surface shrine and uhmmm mushrooms are on the surface

it is very redudant though

i do like the inclusion of pink gel - it's in an actually pretty reasonable amount and i dont think theres anything wrong with giving the player a little bit of a relatively rare material, plus it makes sense with the in-universe narartive of the structure

[wheat walrus]

haii

[timber glacier]

Hmmm yes 5-9 mushrooms in a chest with 10-12 lesser healing potions very useful

[raven brook]

itd be a issue if it gave the player like

100 pink gel or something

that would be ridiculous

but 9-12? nah yeah thats pretty cool

[eager bluff]

cheese i want you to know that every time i glance at my phone i think your name is someone pinging mods

[raven brook]

i also think putting the biome keys inside of the shrines is silly

Cla already adds an alternative obtainment method for them as rare-r boss drops

why do you need to put them on the shrines too

this "qol" shit is crazy ...

[young socket]

they grew inside the chest duh

[raven brook]

Moderator

[eager bluff]

i think neither of these methods are good

[wheat walrus]

@raven brook

[raven brook]

Both of them r lame but one's lamer

Also 🥹

yeah man of course

[languid badge]

needs it

[raven brook]

10-12 lifeforce potions you can easily obtain preboss

add in endurance and heartreach while you're ati t to

8 whole ass geodes because why not

not like there arent 500 other ways of obtaining gems already

we LOVE qol

[languid badge]

well no

[raven brook]

we LOVE not playing the game

[languid badge]

the slashes mean

its only one

[eager bluff]

just throwing the key in a chest sucks but also simply making the thing dropped from a boss

[languid badge]

so heatreach or endurence or lifeforce

[raven brook]

still egregious

lifeforce is by afr the wrost one though

[young socket]

also calling granite shrine easy to get is...

[eager bluff]

ok those do make sense though because its in a big ass geode (and iirc geodes are dropped by granite enemies)

[raven brook]

@cosmic zenith stip you gotta save the calamity chest loot economy ur the building guy ...

[languid badge]

cal just loves handing you lifeforce pots phm for some reason

[raven brook]

No they DO make sense but

its Alot

I think 3-4 would be much more reasonable

[languid badge]

eh

[raven brook]

geodes actually give you a pretty dman big amount of gems iric but i might be misremembering

[cosmic zenith]

I'm not the loot rework/addition guy

[sinful adder]

Remove the potions and keep everything else maybe?

[eager bluff]

its like 2-4 gems iirc

[sinful adder]

Also like seriously remove the torches lol

[languid badge]

the pots are fine

[raven brook]

It's unreal. Comparing this to every other calamity loot chest

What do you mean this is actually reasonable loot for a structure

that can't be

[raven brook]

They really aren't i'm sorry 😭

Getting 12 lifeforce potions in a structure you can find preboss is everything but Fine

[sinful adder]

Yeah thats like 2 hours of grinding potion ingredients

[languid badge]

they are in the context of it being granite shrine

aka you are not fucking finding it more often than not

[sinful adder]

Plus some hardmode exclusive potions

[agile matrix]

these are fine wdym

[eager bluff]

ok but this is granite shrine

[sinful adder]

I find every shrine in about 50% of playthroughs

[raven brook]

Yeah exactly that's my point

did you read mym essage

[agile matrix]

this is also okay

[sinful adder]

Most of them in prehardmode

[eager bluff]

granite shrine is more often than not in the middle of fuckall nowhere anywhere in the underground

[languid badge]

granite shrine is preboss in the same way dragoon drizzlefish is preboss

in that it is technically obtainable preboss

but not realistic with any degree of consistency

[agile matrix]

the torches can go and the potion amt can be reduced or pooled but otherwise this is fine

[sinful adder]

No it really isn't. I usually find at least like 3 shrines pre boss

[languid badge]

ok but what 3

shrines are not made equal

[long bloom]

does that include granite?

[sinful adder]

Surface, desert, granite

[raven brook]

12 largest tier food buffs btw

[languid badge]

surface and desert are basically givens

[sinful adder]

Sometimes also uh

Sometimes snow

[raven brook]

I think the number of consumables should ber univversally reduced on all of them

having lifeforce potions at all for granite and marble is fine

[languid badge]

granite is really not common at all and I cant even remember the last time I genuenely found snow shrine

[raven brook]

I do understand they're harder to find yeah

but 12 is Not

[languid badge]

cutting the potion count in half would be very chill

[raven brook]

all of them have 10-12 of their respective potion and it's like, way too much

[sinful adder]

That would be reasonable I think

[raven brook]

yeah 4-6 would be good

or 4-8

at most

[languid badge]

surface shrine is the most egregious bc its practically handed to you

[raven brook]

also kill the biome keys from em

no reason for these ot be here

[languid badge]

I genuenely forgot they had biome keys in them

[eager bluff]

kill biome key alternative methods and just increase the droprate to like 2% or smth

[raven brook]

its kind of crazy to compare surface and shimmer shrines, both of which are about as easy ot find as the other

and shimmer shrine just has objectively more well balanced loot

[sinful adder]

I don't like random drops

[languid badge]

the miniboss drops are fine

[timber glacier]

Well since each only last for 4 minutes it is only tier 3 food buff for 40-48 minutes but yeah that is a bit much

[sinful adder]

Biome keys should be guaranteed drops from special enemies or minibosses

[raven brook]

given shimmer is the most recently added one

and it has an actually good lootpoll

i do reckon the others will be adjusted eventually

[languid badge]

2% drop would also be absurdly common for a biome key to the point they may as well not be locked at all

[timber glacier]

Biome keys could be cool if they had unique locations or something, like if each had a unique structure then it could be kind of cool but as is its either a lame source or tedious grinding

[sinful adder]

Honestly I would not care if they weren't locked

[eager bluff]

thats called biome shrines

[sinful adder]

It would be better than having keys with how they are now

[timber glacier]

I meant special shrines exclusively for the keys, not tacked onto another group of structures

[sinful adder]

Hey wait what if like

What if they're tied to draconic offshoots

Like each dungeon biome chest corresponds to a new draconic offshoot miniboss

That would be loreous

[raven brook]

id argue adding a new set of structures just for hte biome keys dosen't really solve anything and arguably is the same problem as they have right now but worse as you've just went out of your way to add another structure exclusively for them

[sinful adder]

Which is why it should be a dedicated boss or miniboss

[languid badge]

structures also becomes kinda janky for hallowed (and astral) given they arn't there on worldgen

[raven brook]

adding entire minibosses just for keys also probably wouldnt be ideal but i do think tying them to the planned dragon minibosses could be neat

and astral key goes for astrum aureus that gets demoted to a miniboss. trust me

[timber glacier]

Mechanical Piranha dragon miniboss would go gard

Hard

[sinful adder]

Well, they're really tied to the biome weapons, the keys are just indirect

I can't make a suggestion for this because it's future content

But I think it's a cool idea

[eager bluff]

even if it wasnt future content you couldnt make a sugg about it

[raven brook]

regardless my point is making entire new miniboss just for the sake of being sources of this 1 item is not a good idea

[raven brook]

specific content

[eager bluff]

suggestion channel is turned off the bot is broken

[sinful adder]

That's not the only point. They're also required for the planned old duke replacement quest

[raven brook]

well then they aren't dedicated biome key minibosses

[sinful adder]

They're already planned and going to exist

[raven brook]

yeah that's fine

i know elder basilisk will exist and that guy could get. orr well. would

[sinful adder]

They're part of it but not exclusive

[raven brook]

great sand shark is what has the desert key right now so

[timber glacier]

What if calamity brought back biome key molds (bad idea)

[raven brook]

naturally, assuming no changes to this, then yeah, elder basilisk would be the one to get it

[eager bluff]

bad idea

[raven brook]

idk what corruption/crimson would be and i don't see how you could tie dragon offshoots to those given those biomes area ctually largely god focused instead but who knows

[eager bluff]

biome key molds are just biome keys but worse

[raven brook]

im not a writer

[wanton pendant]

Killing you.

[sinful adder]

So like:
Elder basil -> desert key
Mammoth dragon -> ice key

[raven brook]

maybe theres smth

[sinful adder]

Uh

[raven brook]

whos gonna tell him ..

[eager bluff]

isnt mammoth dragon not real

[sinful adder]

It can become real!

[eager bluff]

like thats just a triangle side project

[raven brook]

yeah 😭 there is a accessory referencing it though

not even

that project got shot and killed p sure

[split mortar]

Yeah p sure

[eager bluff]

that also makes sense

[sinful adder]

There's a weapon referencing it

[raven brook]

el mamute pequenino

[sinful adder]

But like they're going to make 5ish draconic offshoots anyways

One of them can be snow guy

[raven brook]

a snow lyndwurm would be cool

[eager bluff]

ermmmm... english only............ mods kill her

[sinful adder]

So...

[raven brook]

jungle could be like. a hydra. i think itd be cool to have a hydra jungle guy

feels fitting

[sinful adder]

Wait this means we get a jungle dragon

[raven brook]

hydras are often associated with swamps in myth

[sinful adder]

That's kinda funny

[eager bluff]

FISH DRAGON!!!!!

[wanton pendant]

Mammoth Dragon is real, it's coming, it's behind you.

[raven brook]

haha

yharon jungle dr

[eager bluff]

jungle damage reduction 😨

[raven brook]

astral being the odd one out and just being obtained from aureus instead is fitting i think given astral is, well

literally the odd one out its the only one thats not from vanilla

[wanton pendant]

Yharon's a doctor?

[eager bluff]

why is there even an astral chest

[sinful adder]

We can have an offshoot of the dragon of night

[raven brook]

rogue

evil ass class rogue

[split mortar]

I am out of the loop the fuck are all these ideas im not familiar woth being me tioned

[sinful adder]

For Hallow we can have an offshoot of zeratros

[wanton pendant]

We hate keys and want them to die.

[raven brook]

we're just talking about ideas we're having

[raven brook]

Ok hard disagree

I do not think we should ever have any confirmed zeratros offshoots

It'd be kinda insane

[eager bluff]

rogue is the odd one out if it doesnt get a fragment it doesnt get a biome chest

[sinful adder]

Draconic offshoot hunting quest given to you by old duke. What if they drop the biome keys

[split mortar]

I mean the dragon offshoots per biome thing that seems to be talked about rather concretely

[sinful adder]

I mean a relative

[split mortar]

Oh ok

[sinful adder]

But fair

[raven brook]

The idea of dragon offshoot minibosses is triangle plans

may or may not be real

them being tied to biome keys is just an idea we're having

[split mortar]

Homosexuality

[dusk laurel]

bingo?

[wanton pendant]

Peculiar creature.

[raven brook]

yeah man

[sinful adder]

@ruby heart hey you should make the biome dragon offshoots drop the biome keys so they all go together.

[split mortar]

It is late I am more impulsive rn

[sinful adder]

Was it ok for me to ping them

[split mortar]

So yes i will say homosexuality without reason

[sinful adder]

Maybe I should have asked first

[eager bluff]

still angry about meld not being treated as though its the rogue fragment despite it being the rogue fragment equivalent

[plucky juniper]

devplans for draconic offshoot minibosses???

[raven brook]

yeah

i mean one of them we already knew about

[split mortar]

How would you ask triangle if its ok to ping triangle

[raven brook]

elder basilisk

but there will be others

and they will be tied at large to a old duke quest

i think itd be

[plucky juniper]

AHAHA

[raven brook]

really cool

[split mortar]

Elder basilisk sounds gay

[plucky juniper]

CRACKPOT IDEA TIME

[raven brook]

if each offshoot was based off a different real life interpretation of a dragon

we know we have elder Basilisk

maybe we could have one that's a hydra, one that's a lyndwurm, one that's a wyvern, etc

[eager bluff]

you've caught me at a very chinese time of my life

[sinful adder]

Literally we have 2 perfect fits and a really funny idea for this to work so I think it's a great idea

[raven brook]

maybe a tarrasque

and ofc theres OD himself which will be a lung from the looks of it, or atleast lung-adjacent

i do feel tarrasque would be too basilisk adjacent tho

atleast if we're talking about terraria basilisks

mythological basilisks r weird snake birds but terraria basilisk are low to the ground lizard guys which is kinda close to what the mythological tarrasque was

[hollow pivot]

Turkor is Hydra, trust.

[wanton pendant]

Dragonborn offshoot, it looks like a man, but it's actually a dragon.

[eager bluff]

old duke 🫁 dragon (specifically lung because lung cancer after decades of chronic smoking)

[split mortar]

If a auric dragon was trans would they always have hrt when rebirthing or do auric dragons get randomised bodies when rebirthed idk how to describe i forgot the words

[timber glacier]

Arch wyvern miniboss

[raven brook]

melon what time is it for you

[wanton pendant]

Nearly 2am.

[split mortar]

Nearly 2 am

[raven brook]

go sleep

[split mortar]

Wish i could

[young socket]

archwyvern insert emoji of cat with plant on head

[raven brook]

stop looking at ur phojne

[plucky juniper]

eh even i think this crackpot idea got too many holes

not sharing it

[hollow pivot]

Calamity Players when Sleep Schedule:

[raven brook]

tbf i meant more so actual wyverns not terraria wyverns since terraria wyverns are actually much closer to lungs which is kinda hilarious

[sinful adder]

That reminds me

[young socket]

blame red

[sinful adder]

I think it's really lame that old duke isn't going to be a duke at all

Or rather, not a fishron

[raven brook]

i mean he's going to be some form of royalty

thats pretty, duke

[sinful adder]

The entire point of it was to be stinky old fishron

[hollow pivot]

Someone has probably said something stupider in this channel.

[raven brook]

point's changing

[sinful adder]

I guess

[plucky juniper]

okay then

[raven brook]

plus it being a stinky old fishron was kind of just fabsol's idea and literally nobody liked it or endorsed it

[eager bluff]

no the entire point was to be actually just duke fishron that dropped 3 treasure bags

[young socket]

what

[raven brook]

so i think separating it from that idea specially with it being one that really not anything particularly interesting came out of narratively uh

makes alot of sense

[sinful adder]

Oh lmao

[split mortar]

If i am not distracting myself constantly rn ill convince myself I’m worth less then a rotten sack of potatoes so no thanks

[hollow pivot]

It was just yellow fishron that had more hp and more loot iIrc

[plucky juniper]

crackpot idea was:
kill meld construct, replace it with a real lunar fragment.
make that craft into the rogue lunar weapons
the rest of the meld set just gets crafted by meld blobs

[sinful adder]

So then does Duke fishron count as an offshoot for the quest and will we get an ocean biome chest then lol

[raven brook]

isnt this just material creep for no reason

[plucky juniper]

ya thats why i dropped the idea

[raven brook]

ah

makes sense lol

[timber glacier]

I could see something like a neutron fragment working but like it really should just be changing meld into it with the who,e set becoming it

[young socket]

what the fuck do you mean by real fragment

do u want a fifth pillar

[plucky juniper]

as in, it is called (X) fragment

[timber glacier]

Like just make them into a “___ fragment”

[raven brook]

as in dropped from a pillar and being called [thing] fragment

[sinful adder]

Better idea

[raven brook]

i assume

[split mortar]

Meld fragment

[hollow pivot]

We could probably get rid of Meld Constructs if we just made it require Ancient Manipulator for all its recipes.

[sinful adder]

Kill meld, period, and then make a proper fourth fragment

[raven brook]

wouldnt it be the fifth

[hollow pivot]

Fourth Fragment trust.

[sinful adder]

Make it work the same as all the others

[timber glacier]

Fourth?

[sinful adder]

Oops yeah fifth

[young socket]

guys

[sinful adder]

Mistyped

[raven brook]

man rogue is so evil

[eager bluff]

better idea retheme the not rogue and not tool meld content to not actually just be the exact same theming

[raven brook]

all my homies hate rogue

[young socket]

stop trying to make a fifth pillar

[timber glacier]

Best Idea remove rogue and make it all ranger

[sinful adder]

Rogue is lame and never should have existed. Red killed thrower for a reason

[timber glacier]

Or melee

[noble falcon]

Finally someone who gets it

[hollow pivot]

Hello Re-Logic!

[young socket]

its not a good idea theres no good place to put it

[raven brook]

idt removing rogue would be a viable idea at this point but i think its generally agreed upon adding rogue at all was kind of a dumb idea

[split mortar]

To make it proper calamity would need to make a fifth pillar
And also resprite every meld item which
Spriter hell

[dusk laurel]

relogic was right thrower class was mid

[raven brook]

wasnt it even fabsol moment too

[sinful adder]

Big agree

Unfortunately like a bunch of the devs love rogue

[timber glacier]

Honestly rogue feels weird given how many vanilla items should be rogue but just aren’t for some dumb reason

[sinful adder]

And there are donor items

So they'll never kill it

[dusk laurel]

😊 What.....

[sinful adder]

EXACTLY

Boomerangs!

[plucky juniper]

i mean if you didnt have rogue then a bunch of items would just become extraenous ranged weapons post-1.4

[timber glacier]

Throwing knives not being rogue is painful

[dusk laurel]

how does he weasel his way into like half of the dumb shit in this mod i cant

[noble falcon]

Which monsters from My Singing Monsters could kill SCal

[plucky juniper]

and that would just result in ranged becoming even more bloated than it is already is in certain stages

[sinful adder]

No. They'd just be killed and not exist

Rogue is stupid

[plucky juniper]

ya

[raven brook]

I don't think removing rogue is a good idea and the best that can be done is to just work to make it the best it can be

[plucky juniper]

itd just be massively pruned away

[raven brook]

But man do i wish it never got added to begin with

[young socket]

genuinely what did you expect

[raven brook]

Its entire existence just bring so much issues

[plucky juniper]

i dont mind it existing

[timber glacier]

I could see rogue being reworked into a ranger sub-class or somethjng but like it feels like ranger 2

Just you are the ྀིྀ bow

[eager bluff]

rogue is fun

[young socket]

thats like saying what to a boss being made because of fabsol

[raven brook]

Plus this might just be me but i just think rogue is conceptually reallly boring as a class and dosen't really do anything particularly different or unique atm. hopefully that can cahnge when stealth is reworked, though

[sinful adder]

Split it half and half into ranger and melee

[hollow pivot]

I think a start could be differentiating Rogue Weapons like Javelins and Daggers.

[sinful adder]

Boomerangs are already supposed to be melee

Just the way red intended

[timber glacier]

I will say that is stupid

[split mortar]

What about the stealth mechanic

[eager bluff]

fuck class consistency

[raven brook]

I think this goes for vanilla classes too tough so

[dusk laurel]

👹

[sinful adder]

EXACTLY
And I don't believe stealth can be improved

[raven brook]

Like i think both vanilla and rogue in calamity suffer from all the classes being the fucking same

[sinful adder]

Put the effort of fixing stealth into fixing vanilla classes

[raven brook]

The gmaeplay difference mostly comes from their different progression cycles

[sinful adder]

Make mana cool by killing mana potions

[raven brook]

nah i dont think they gotta do that

[dusk laurel]

mhm

[raven brook]

this isnt a vanilla rework mod

[hollow pivot]

Because currently there are like accessories or gear that make ones better and others worse like how Ranged does with Bows and Guns and how Melee does with Yo-Yos.

[sinful adder]

I mean
Yes it is

[raven brook]

plus thta'd just hurt compatibility with other mods

[eager bluff]

do goofy shit dont shackle yourself by the arbitrary decisions of redigit from a decade ago

[sinful adder]

Early hardmode rework:

[raven brook]

I think calamity reworking how classes work on a fundamental level would be a bad idea and not smth that calamity should really do

[sinful adder]

Mod compat is a joke

[hollow pivot]

I do like the idea of stealth rewarding players for minimizing movement and good timing with their attacks.

[eager bluff]

can be turned off

[raven brook]

They can rework specific item,s sure, i think that's fine

[dusk laurel]

it definitely is not

[sinful adder]

They rework progression for like a fifth of the game

[plucky juniper]

agreed

[raven brook]

And is also realistically a objectively much less significant change than a fundamental rework of how classes work

It dosen't actually hurt mod compatibility that much

If you add a fundamental class rework then uhhh

[hollow pivot]

Multiple Mods is so fun when it's done right.

[raven brook]

Yeah no thats just Goodbye mod compatibility

[plucky juniper]

personally im of the mind that rogue weapons could be differentiated much more by making them have different stealth mechanics

[raven brook]

And no mod compat really isnt a joke

in fact alot ofo mods that arent calamity,

work wonderfully together

[dusk laurel]

theres been a very recent example of good mod compat

[split mortar]

Reforged and fables

[hollow pivot]

Currently every Rogue weapon is a bit disjointed apart from recipes.

[raven brook]

I will say i don't think the compatibility between those two should be the standard even if it's fantastic

[young socket]

it actually hurts it quite a bit because a lot of modders usually use mythril anvil for pre hm boss recipes...

[eager bluff]

mod compatibility isnt even "raahhhh we need to complement every other mod perfectly" its just "we need to not do super drastic things without putting a lot of thought into it because other mods exist and will be used with calamity"

[timber glacier]

I feel like now that only one rogue weapon is consumable it feels like its just a bunch of ammo-less ranged weapons to me with the shroomite/vortex set bonus always

[young socket]

so all the vanilla and cal stuff is fine

[plucky juniper]

like once stealth gets renamed to focus i think you could justify making, say for example, javelins different from others by making them generate focus manually via holding it down or something

[compact ridge]

Huh

[plucky juniper]

like an actual charge mechanic

[young socket]

but say mor for example gets fucked

[raven brook]

Because it relies on the two mod teams being very closely knit with eachother and going out of their way to design their mods as highly compatible experiences

[dusk laurel]

mhm

[raven brook]

I don't think it's something calamity per example, could really achieve, atleast not rn

there is no spirit reforged to calamity's . uh. calamity fables

[dusk laurel]

fables and spirit share alot of devs and have been working together for a while

[raven brook]

Yeah

[dusk laurel]

not every mod is gonna be like this

[raven brook]

Scourge vs Scarab is awesome and it'll be cool to mayhaps see other mod teams trying to do similar things but it shouldn't be the standard

[plucky juniper]

that. kinda explains why i feel the vibes from the trailers i see are so weirdly similar

[eager bluff]

fabsol mod 😊

[wanton pendant]

Biggest issue with mod compatability I think is bosses being too close together.

[young socket]

this is already being somewhat done with the new lemon 'nade and its reworked upgrades (duststorm bottle and sealed singularity)

[hollow pivot]

Wait what happened to lore?

[raven brook]

The standard should just be to be mindful and to design stuff in a way that minimizes completely fucking over other mods

[sinful adder]

Well anyways. Compromise on meld:
Turn it into a proper fragment in every way except that it just drops alongside all the other fragments from the other pillars

[eager bluff]

congrats you have renamed meld

[young socket]

so. its the same.

[plucky juniper]

Starblood would be a much better name for meld ngl

[timber glacier]

Just renaming an respriting it could help to make it feel less of an oddball

[sinful adder]

No because it's no longer two items and it uses luminite bars

[dusk laurel]

Now for my next trick...

[hollow pivot]

Distortion Goop
?

[raven brook]

also true

[timber glacier]

Also removing meld constructs and making it just need the meld blob equivalent

[raven brook]

we spent too long talking about calamity game design

[plucky juniper]

like probably a good portion of why so much people dont like meld is that it just is called meld

[raven brook]

as much as i am all for offtopic conversations i unfortunately,

Moderator

guys lets dial it back a bit

[young socket]

what

[hollow pivot]

#calamity-mod-talk
Can we go here?

[ruby heart]

Ping

Why the ping

[raven brook]

hi triangle

[eager bluff]

no

[sinful adder]

No I mean remove meld constructs and keep meld blobs

[eager bluff]

we cannot

[plucky juniper]

its the kind of weird nonsense names like draedon bars that fabsol wrote back in 2016 and stuff that ... would be changed in about 4 years

[raven brook]

ben was asking you smth about draconic offshoots and uhhh biome keys or smth

[wanton pendant]

We're discussing Meld and its consequences.

[hollow pivot]

Dang I cann9t believe that.

[sinful adder]

Hi triangle what if your dragon offshoots each dropped the biome keys and that was like their thing

[split mortar]

Why does the dungeon have astral chest and god biome chests

[ruby heart]

That would be super lame

[sinful adder]

Aw

Not their ONLY thing

[raven brook]

because videogame

[ruby heart]

And also its only 4 if they get real what keys would they drop

[split mortar]

Coward

[raven brook]

ask better questions next time

[eager bluff]

evils make sense you can bullshit it as like protecting/sealing items from them

[ruby heart]

Elder basilisk, og dragonfolly ( the actual offshoot ), scoria snail dragon and old duke

[split mortar]

Are the chests gay

[eager bluff]

astral chest doesnt make sense

[raven brook]

Yes

[split mortar]

Fair but hallowed

[raven brook]

Thnak you for the better qeustion

[sinful adder]

Well I imagine there would be one for each biome that has a chest

[wanton pendant]

Old Dragonfolly.

[ruby heart]

Why there would be a evils dragon tho.. well there will be one but

[sinful adder]

Mammoth for ice, something zeratros related for hallow

[raven brook]

An idea i had that i think would be potentially really cool was if each one of the offshoot minibosses referenced irl dragon archetypes from diff mythologies ...

[ruby heart]

They will

And also be very diferent culturally

[eager bluff]

item contaminated by that essence while sealing them in wof

[raven brook]

Basilisks, Hydras, Wyverns (real ones not terraria ones), Tarrasques, Lyndrwurms, etc

And then OD himself is, well, from what i know a Lung

the snail dragon being based off a tarrasque would go kinda hard

[sinful adder]

See? It works
And night dragon offshoot for astral

[ruby heart]

Old duke as you can see with my old design is very chinese lung inspired, the scoria snail dragon is medieval europe inspired, the drawings of knights fighting snail

[raven brook]

theres very little tarrasuqe rep in media except for like, dungeons nad dragons

[gritty kraken]

Call it Yhagron

[raven brook]

and DND tarrasques are

nothing like actual tarrasques,,

[spare pier]

?

[eager bluff]

ngl i didnt even know tarrasques were things outside of dnd

[timber glacier]

I will say a wyvern mini-boss would be very redundant feeling given we literally already have a wyvern miniboss/boss with betsy

[sinful adder]

We would also get a jungle dragon for the jungle chest which can be a funny callback

[split mortar]

Did not know tarrasque was a dragon type

[raven brook]

typa shit i be on

[wanton pendant]

🔥 🖋️

[hollow pivot]

Something Yharon for the evil biomes.

[split mortar]

😭

[raven brook]

wait thats actually a really cute reference

the nefarious drawings of medieval knights fighting snails

[spare pier]

Why is everyone ignoring my awesome joke

[ruby heart]

Og folly im still thinking, and elder basilisk is aztec and stuff ( quetzal, ahuizotl )

[eager bluff]

i dont even know what a dnd tarrasque looks like i think its like a dinosaur but

[ruby heart]

Yea its a scaly foot snail medieval dragon, drake

[raven brook]

elder basilisk being aztec feels a bit random given what the basilisks look like in calamity

[ruby heart]

The 6 limbed dragon thing

[eager bluff]

because i already made it !!

[split mortar]

Because i exist

[dusk laurel]

well betsy is lame and also doesnt exist so smh smhmy head

[hollow pivot]

Someone made it earlier.

[raven brook]

laughs at you. giggles. hoots and howls

[wanton pendant]

You're stealing my thing, it's totally bogus.

[timber glacier]

Hilarious 🤣 cos its a lung

[sinful adder]

So yeah I think this would totally work because you can make a sensible dragon for each biome chest, and the dungeon is dragon related so it's loreous

[spare pier]

Thank you Cheese

[raven brook]

i mean, terraria, whatever

[spare pier]

Only Cheese

Fuck everyone else you're stinky

[ruby heart]

Elder basilisk ref

[dusk laurel]

🦉 🏴‍☠️

[raven brook]

elder basilisk being tarrasquepilled would make alot of sense becasue as i said earlier

if anything

terraria basilisks r closer to tarrasques than actual basilisks of myth

[ruby heart]

It should be john defense the offshoot

Ultimate shell

[split mortar]

What do tarrasques look like is it the demon turtle cheese posted

[raven brook]

low-to-theground flightless dragon with no wings and a tough shell

[eager bluff]

yes

[split mortar]

I see

Would gluttony be a tarrasque

[spare pier]

I still think Gluttony should be a fatass mudskipper

[raven brook]

i did always headcanon that basilisks were offshoots of gluttony + earth or earth-adjacent thing dragon (think of how vetrasyl is storm and zaelithar is flame)

[split mortar]

Thats what you are

[spare pier]

What

[sinful adder]

Also consider: biome keys currently suck ass
Making them dropped by special, relevant bosses would suck less ass

[ruby heart]

Anyway if they get real
Early hardmode or post skeletron > scoria snail
Late hardmode > elder basilisk ( replacement of GSS )
Early post moonlord > true folly
Middle post moon lord/acid rain t3 > old duke

[dusk laurel]

right true follies

because thje sky ones r different offshoots that look similarish iirc from what tou said

[ruby heart]

Well in this case it wouldnt be a folly at all.. follies are just called follies because they arent dragons

[split mortar]

Idk ur the dragon of gluttony i have decided
You will be erased by sapient gender fluid

[timber glacier]

Scoria boss being very far from scoria in progression sounds a bit weird but It could be interesting

[ruby heart]

False offshoots

[raven brook]

I think post skeletron for scoria snailmakes alot of sense given thats when the abyss is first relevant

[eager bluff]

ok i was right its just a dinosaur

[dusk laurel]

false ofshoots huh?

[ruby heart]

Yea

[wanton pendant]

So mimicry?

[ruby heart]

And its the weakest of the offshoot

[ruby heart]

I mean its known already for a while they usurp dragon energy

[raven brook]

so are dragonfollies not related to dragons at all

ik they steal essence from dead dragojns

[dusk laurel]

i guess dragonfolly would make more sense as a name

[wanton pendant]

Close enough, welcome back Dwarf Bulborbs.

[raven brook]

but i thought they were still related like other offshoots were

[sinful adder]

Wait hold on there's going to be two dragonfollies

Lame

[raven brook]

but yeah that does make alot of sense if theyre just

entirely unrealted

[spare pier]

Post Skeletron would be better due to matching with the Abyss

[ruby heart]

Yea

[raven brook]

and just steal the power of dragons for themselves

evil ass bird

[sinful adder]

They should be real dragons that live in Chrysidia

[split mortar]

?

[ruby heart]

Anyway if the offshoot stuff get real it would come inbetween updates and not all together

[raven brook]

there are no Real Dragons they're Dead

[ruby heart]

🐛

[spare pier]

Wyverns already exist

[ruby heart]

Wont talk more..

[eager bluff]

wyverns

[split mortar]

Chrysadia kinda dead from moonlord and wyverns are also there

[ruby heart]

Otherwise i will be zapped to death

By authorities

[dusk laurel]

the early bird gets the worm

[raven brook]

zaps you

[spare pier]

That's right

[ruby heart]

Bug

[spare pier]

Triangle

[ruby heart]

Hawk moth is all i will say

[raven brook]

they turning dragonfolly into a worm boss, very sad

[spare pier]

You're going to the electric chair

[split mortar]

The calamity ninjas

[raven brook]

ok hawkmoth dfolly goes hard as fuck

ur a true

[ruby heart]

Well all i said so far is public stuff for a while but

I cant say no more

[split mortar]

How would folly taste if cooked at 300c for 3 hours

[eager bluff]

molten

[ruby heart]

Imagine being a sky society person and then seeing 10 moth birds the size of a rhyno coming for dragon nectar

[plucky juniper]

why not REAL, TWO LEGGED TWO WINGED, ALL-AMERICAN WYVERNS!>!?!

[ruby heart]

That is old duke

[eager bluff]

betsy

[cosmic zenith]

I'd advise you to worry a bit more about what you reveal :p
This doesn't have anything to do with me, or am I referring to this specifically, just pointing it out since we've talked so much about it in dev

[ruby heart]

And betsy

[plucky juniper]

he doesnt count you want him to be a lung

[ruby heart]

That is just perforator hydra

[raven brook]

i assume he was just reffering to hydra perfs

whichis yeah

public info by now

[ruby heart]

Which is also super known

For like 2 years

[plucky juniper]

perforator hydra?

[dusk laurel]

yeah

[raven brook]

this will be dfolly graphics in 2012

[ruby heart]

As i said all im talking rn is public stuff

[cosmic zenith]

I see

[raven brook]

perforator redesign being a hydra creature

[split mortar]

Are you unaware the perfs are become hydra

[eager bluff]

yeah just this png

[raven brook]

has been known for a long while by now

[plucky juniper]

that sounds cool

[dusk laurel]

hydra perfs known since like idk late 2024 or early 2025 idrc abt getting the time right but ye

[sinful adder]

By the way...

Triangle. Have you played breath of the wild

[raven brook]

do we know naything about hive mind redesign beyond it being somewhat surreal/abstract

[split mortar]

This will be you in 1913

[dusk laurel]

"god corpse"

[raven brook]

i mean ain't that both of them doe

[eager bluff]

thats right distorted hoenheim

[dusk laurel]

idk i cant read minds

[timber glacier]

Minds… like hive mind

[split mortar]

Tsupid

[dusk laurel]

wait cheese ur brazillian u need to send the brainwaves to triangle to steal top secret caldev info

[raven brook]

tats true

triangle accept my brainwaves

[spare pier]

I will block them

[long scaffold]

Hummingbird Hawkmoth mentioned, insane animal

[eager bluff]

nice try you act as an amplifier

[raven brook]

they are

[wanton pendant]

Hive Mind will read the player's Steam library to comment on your play time and gaming taste.

[split mortar]

Sends british brainwaves into this chat

[wanton pendant]

Please no!

[plucky juniper]

ngl i had a vague idea of perforator worms spawning by just actually erupting from the perforator hive and then becoming independent later

[eager bluff]

anti british beam

[dusk laurel]

perf worms are DYING. fabsol almost kept them real with the hydra redesign last i heard

thankfully he has been excommunicated since

[spare pier]

I mean in all honesty it's a pretty sick idea

[sinful adder]

Whatever. I think the astrum deus fight should instead be something where you chase it while shooting the infection goop off of it

Hydra heads that become worms when cut off sounds at least kinda cool

[wanton pendant]

That implies they let him in a church and he didn't catch ablaze upon entering.

[split mortar]

Could i eat life in the hallowed without dying to the god essence

[eager bluff]

in concept thats cool

[spare pier]

Cutting something's head only for it to continue fighting you is kinda fire

[dusk laurel]

all concept and no execution,,, we live in a society that was almost near collapse...

[raven brook]

That concept is actually cool and i think it can be done well with the right execution

[split mortar]

Can god essence influence sapient life

[split mortar]

Unfortunately
Fabsol

[raven brook]

The bad execution would just be making them normal ass worms like they are right now

[eager bluff]

a neat spin on the stereotypical cutting off a hydras head makes a bigger issue but unfortunately this is fabsol so its just gonna be worm ai if we're lucky

[split mortar]

One or two would have crawltipede ai maybe

[long scaffold]

Luckily Fab is dead so we can actually make them interesting (wow)

[raven brook]

yeah if it was fabsol it wouldve just been the perf worms as they are right now

maybe with some extra projectiles while you're at it

[spare pier]

In reality the worms would be lobotomized after 5 days and they'll stop doing anything

[raven brook]

TRUE

[wanton pendant]

Reminds me of the Resident Evil: Revalations boss, where you fight the parasites inside a giant monster.

[eager bluff]

thanatos mentioned

[sinful adder]

Would Silva like playing pikmin

[eager bluff]

no but god of war would hail it as the ultimate wargame

[spare pier]

The God of War would think the original God of War trilogy is peak and hate the newer games

[sinful adder]

Also, why was life dragon blue but Silva is green

We can fix this by giving Silva hollow knight lifeblood/plasmium stuff

[timber glacier]

shes prob green cos shes the life elemental

[wanton pendant]

Silva is the Nature Elemental.

[sinful adder]

Have cyan butterflies and vines and such

[timber glacier]

But if she was blue that could be confusing with the water elemental

[sinful adder]

This could also explain lumenyl

[sinful adder]

Oh I just mean blue accents

[cosmic zenith]

Life Dragon was blue?

[ruby heart]

Life has no design

For now

Considering its a important auric dragon it might later if we do more silva stuff

Or if a dev want to do one

[ruby heart]

True

Monster hunter too

[noble falcon]

If I uploaded a copy of Bonzi Buddy into Draedon, would he explode and die

[agile matrix]

he would seperate them from the main area and test on him

[sinful adder]

Inferred from stardust pillar

Life dragon's power was blue when used by fovos

So it seems reasonable that life dragon was probably blueish

[cosmic zenith]

Not quite how it works

[sinful adder]

Ah

[cosmic zenith]

Vetrasyl isn't teal all over

And Zeratros definitely wasn't orange

[sinful adder]

I mean I don't expect them to be all that color but I expect them to have it in their magic parts or something

[cosmic zenith]

Perhaps

We'll see when we get there

Currently, the only part of Vetrasyl planned to be teal are his eyes

[long bloom]

maybe give life dragon blue eyes and zeratros orange eyes..

could be cool

[sinful adder]

I imagine the life dragon would be like the life blood creature in hollow knight

But gold (auric) instead of black

[raven brook]

my only real hope for life's design is that it does more than just being Plant Dragon

silva is already very Plant Goddess

she does get a bit of a pass since she can shapeshift so one can infer that's just the way she..,,, prefers to look i suppose? but i still wish her design had some more elements of other forms of life on her

i understand it might be hard to do that without it getting cluttered possibly though

[long bloom]

[sinful adder]

Make it not plants at all. Make it covered in stuff that isn't clear wether they are veins or vines

[long bloom]

if you want cool plant dragon, ninjago arc dragon of life

[long bloom]

wait

cook?

[hoary cape]

cook indeed

[raven brook]

as for death its basically the same thing

[hoary cape]

veiny plants

[raven brook]

i just hope it isn't Bone Dragon

and does something More with the concept of it being Death

[hoary cape]

death should look like the grim rheaper if it was dragon

[raven brook]

eh thats a pretty boring take i think

[long bloom]

i hope it looks rotting

like spawning salmon

[hoary cape]

zombie dragon

[raven brook]

Death isn't a harbinger of undeath from the little we know about him - He represents the natural end of all things, not a representation of having power over death or bringing death to others but simply accepting it's the time to go when said time inevitably comes

I think you can do alot with such a concept beyond just

[sinful adder]

Giant living tumor dragon constantly budding new growth of all kinds of life, all held together by glowing blue veins

[raven brook]

here's Bones Guy or here's Corpse Guy

[hoary cape]

the death dragon is a nice guy with a horrible aura iirc

[spare pier]

I might have conjured lore for the next update through my sheer unrelenting rage over the Soul Artifacts

[eager bluff]

death dragon i think would look awesome if it tried to emulate like almost a priest vibe

[sinful adder]

A living fractal of bodies and spawning organs

[long bloom]

🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥

[cosmic zenith]

Both Life and Death being fungus-ridden but Life has thriving fungi releasing pretty spores while Death's fungi are peak saprophagous grind

[raven brook]

I'm sure there's figures in many cultures, mythologies or religions one could look for inspiration to design a character like John Death

[cosmic zenith]

Definitely

[raven brook]

This is already far more interesting than Bone Guy or Plant Guy

[cosmic zenith]

John Death's name alone comes from 3 different inspirations

[raven brook]

Specially with both of them being direct parallels to eachother like that, it fits

[eager bluff]

its here to send you off from this world, not to just kill you

[raven brook]

I've always asked myself wtf was up with them

[cosmic zenith]

I will definitely support Life and Death being parallels and spiritual twins
It's always been my intention for them

[spare pier]

Nothing

That's the answer

Nothing

[raven brook]

let me SPEAK

grah

eats you

[long bloom]

eldritch, dimensional and auric used to be the future boss summon items

[raven brook]

alive

boils you in my soup

[spare pier]

They're bullshit items that only exist because "but the sprites 🥺"

[raven brook]

delicious madeline soup

goes well with vegetables

[spare pier]

No I don't

[long bloom]

yippee

[raven brook]

yes you do

ive declared so

im Moderator

[cosmic zenith]

Their names are pretty well-paired as well

[eager bluff]

madeline soup goes excellently with stipulatevegetables

[cosmic zenith]

Vegetables, ew

I'm MEAT

FLESH AND BLOOD

[eager bluff]

stipulatevenison

[sinful adder]

Infinitely radiating from an origin and infinitely converging to a terminus, two halves of a fractal through time and space

Like. Hold on. I might have a picture for this

[raven brook]

ANYWAYS what i was gonna say is that i could tell that they were just kinda random bullshit items without much thought put into them but they did always feel like items that COULD be expanded into being quite loreful and important with the right changes, because it feels like there's little scraps of lore potential there you couldd expand

The tooltips, the fact most of them are "soul" artifacts relating to different powerful entities one could assume would have funky souls (Being from the distortion, Polter being 5001 diff souls in one, Auric soul is self explanatory)

[eager bluff]

that one life/death dragon concept that was like "what if these 2 are conjoined twins" or something like that

[raven brook]

like they feel like they COULD be more they just kinda didn't take the time to be

[sinful adder]

Have any of you played or seen the game Look Outside?

[raven brook]

I've seen it ubt never played it

[eager bluff]

yeah its kinda mediocre from a story standpoint

[raven brook]

seems interesting however i dont intend to buy gmaes anytime soon

[cosmic zenith]

I've looked inside your walls

They're stinky

Clean your house more often

[sinful adder]

Ah

Well! It has cool designs

[eager bluff]

funnily enough this actually happens ingame

[sinful adder]

The life and death dragons should look like the living fractal adjacent things from that game, and also the meat world things

[cosmic zenith]

Hmm
Noted

[sinful adder]

The lore of the game is a little complicated but I personally think it's cool

[cosmic zenith]

Some of my favorite works of fiction are Rain World and The Silmarillion
I'd like to see it try being complicated

[sinful adder]

It's not as complicated as those. I can explain it in a bit

There's just a lot of details

So uh basic premise:
One day, the world is in chaos. Everyone who looks outside is transformed into bizarre creatures, most lose their minds. Even indirect observation of it causes people to change

Thanks to being an unemployed gamer living in a large apartment complex, you are spared. Eventually, you find out that something which is seemingly alive is moving towards the earth and anyone who looks at it is transformed

[cosmic zenith]

Interesting

I wish I had time to check more stuff out

[sinful adder]

Will explain more later. The details of why this stuff works the way it does are kinda interesting and discovered later

[cosmic zenith]

As it is, I have at the very least 4 movies, 2 games and one playthrough to check out for lore research's sake

All while studying Medicine

So yeah I'd appreciate a rundown

[sinful adder]

The creatures powers are observation and consciousness based, so people to see it are transformed into things somewhat based on their own minds and identities. Places and objects are too.

[eager bluff]

if the player looks at it they fucking die

[dusk laurel]

based?

[light linden]

soul artifacts?

[agile matrix]

profaned

eldritch

those ones

[eager bluff]

not profaned that ones donor

[agile matrix]

draconic

then

[light linden]

oh those

idr the last time I used one of them tbh

[long bloom]

auric

[agile matrix]

close e-fuckin-nough .......

no one uses it

[sinful adder]

I'm not doing it justice because there's way more to the game and story. The characters actually feel like people. You can adopt a child who's family turned into mindless monsters, while he stayed sane despite his entire chest and face turning into a giant crooked mouth

[light linden]

what?

[sinful adder]

The cockroaches became sentient. All of them. And now they're arguing over whether to make you their king or their prime Minister, because you were nice to them (didn't bother killing them because you're a slob)

There are several endings but the "main" one involves you collecting 4 depictions of the visitor with the help of some astronomers, in order to get its attention to try and communicate with it

It turns out that it wasn't sentient and isn't doing this on purpose, and getting it's attention caused it to gain sentience. It realizes that humanity is lots of independent beings (a new concept to it), and leaves so that it stops hurting you

[eager bluff]

everything still sucks after it leaves btw

[sinful adder]

It's true form is that of a living fractal, basically made of infinitely branching eyestalks spanning the entire universe

You can help fix it in the good endings

Because you looked outside but stayed sane by being distracted talking to it, as long as you make the right choices and don't attempt to perceive it's entire form, you transform into a living fractal yourself and help rebuild the world with your many new limbs/bodies (which now also cover the entire world)

Or alternatively you can get your astronomer friends to stay sane while turning into a biblically accurate angel if you do certain things

[light linden]

I am

deeply confused

[sinful adder]

Or you can delude yourself into loving your favorite JRPG so hard that you use its own reality warping powers against it to become the protagonist and kill god. This has the side effect of also transforming the entire earth into a fantasy world under your will

This is a lore summary of the game Look Outside

[light linden]

what the hell are y'all talking about?

oh

[plucky juniper]

that

[sinful adder]

A cosmic horror JRPG game

[plucky juniper]

IS INSANELY AWESOME WTF

[light linden]

I was about to ask if I slipped into an alternate universe or something

[sinful adder]

So the real reason this stuff is possible is that, it turns out, all matter in the universe is shed pieces of the visitor's body, and so anything that interacts with it remembers that and is transformed. As long as you can lie to it and appear to be an independent being, you'll be fine. But if a conscious being that's not dissociating at all times learns this knowledge, the knowledge will spread and transform the entire world back into a part of the visitor

The first astronomer uncovered this and had to hypnotize themselves into forgetting everything in order to save the world. You can find this out and get a bad ending by doing so, if you take a certain path

But yeah the lore is cool. And there's a ton of cool characters

[eager bluff]

also theres an ending with an evil hamster

[plucky juniper]

so the idea is, Azathoth is wandering the universe and everything he sees, it turns out to be a piece of him and it turns back into him

[sinful adder]

Yeah. If a specific hamster sees the visitor, it will grow into a god and eat the entire world

[sinful adder]

Yes. As long as you believe you are an independent being, you'll remain as such, as long as no one figures out the truth. But even indirect contact without that knowledge will warp reality

Since you were also made of visitor mass, you, and anyone else, can warp reality if you believe hard enough. Naturally though, no one can know this is possible because the world will be destroyed the moment the question why it's possible

One lady turned into a vending machine and now eats quarters and talks via printing labels on blank cans

But not like a real vending machine. She's still made of flesh. She's like a mimic

[eager bluff]

camera guy

[sinful adder]

Your war veteran landlord's PTSD turned the entire ground floor into a warzone

The creepy stalker photographer turned into a camera

[eager bluff]

theres a guy made of cameras on i think the third floor and hes very self conscious

[sinful adder]

He's also been stalking you

One of the maintenance guys fused with the boiler. He's nice. He grew pipes into the river to keep everyone supplied with hot water

[gritty kraken]

Look outside mentioned

[hollow pivot]

Is it stated what happened to Shakidou's essence after death?

[dusk laurel]

nope

[hollow pivot]

Do we know when he died?

[long bloom]

nope

bro's never even mentioned in the game

they have like no lore

[long bloom]

also they/the m

[plucky juniper]

i think its super lame that apparently the second strongest god just got ganked offscreen by yharon and thats all you hear]

hes just a jobber and thats all we know

[hollow pivot]

Shakidou was 2nd strongest?

[plucky juniper]

supposedly

[long bloom]

yeah

[hollow pivot]

“Empowered by nothing” uh huh

[long bloom]

still didn't hold a candle to xeroc though

[raven brook]

I mean you're gonna hear more evnetually

[plucky juniper]

yea obv

[raven brook]

Ofc it's not gonna be kept as "yeah this dude died and thats kinda it" lol

[rain osprey]

that dude died and that's kinda it

[plucky juniper]

its like

their lore is... empty

[hollow pivot]

What if Shakidou is what makes the evil biomes have Souls of Night because Dragon of Night.

[raven brook]

its like theyre some sort of ,

[raven brook]

i dont think shakidou is really evil nor part of the evil biomes

[long bloom]

also souls of night are almost certainly named by the terrarian

[hollow pivot]

“Hm, this soul is purple and unrelated to time. Soul of Night that makes sense.”

[spare pier]

In all honesty I don't have much about Shakidou besides the fight but I don't really think that's bad because said fight has a lot of weight

Besides it's unreasonable to have every character have an insane amount of depth. Some of them will be fairly one-note but so long as said note is executed well and has enough depth, I think it's fine

[raven brook]

Trying to find a way to insert complex backstories for every character ingame can lead to too muhc info being crammed into places, too

gotta consider how you can communicate things ingame and what realistically can be communicated ingame in a way that feelsgood

[long bloom]

this is true but they are the second strongest god

it's kinda weird they're a nothingburger

[raven brook]

I don't think they'll necessarily be a nothingburger as much as the focus of their existence will be on the fight itself

[plucky juniper]

that said a god of emptiness sounds like ripe fuel for a mystery

[long bloom]

true?

[plucky juniper]

mystery for the sake of mystery is not great, but if you do it well you can make it expand the world

[spare pier]

I think what will probably happen is there'll be information about their origin, the fight, and people will reasonably be able to fill in the gaps of what happened between those two events based on the information those two events give

[raven brook]

Like yeah then just being the guy whos really strong that yharim kills with no other info would be, bad

[plucky juniper]

as long as a very small amount of details, albeit ones that make you go, "wow" are given, you can be fine

which is to say

[raven brook]

Even for the sake of the dfight itself there's not really any weight to it if it's just yharim killing a really strong guy specially when that could be accomplished with other characters that seemingly will get alot more development like agnus or john war

But i don't think that'll be the case

They don't need to be explored that throrouhgly but as longg as there's a Character with their own personality and beliefs there

which you can tell was a Person in this World with a Past

[plucky juniper]

yea that just makes shakidou a jobber

[raven brook]

and not john cardboard cutout

[analog tundra]

Are we even sure that people will look at the lore? Is it that engaging?

[plucky juniper]

you're in #lore-discussion . what do you think

[long bloom]

you're asking the most autistic calamity lore nerds on the internet

[raven brook]

Not everyone will as is the case for anything really, but people evidently do care about it or else there wouldn't be a entire channel for it

People have diff interests

[spare pier]

I have an immense amount of information specifically about this fight you have no idea

[plucky juniper]

fuck once again i forgot this isnt #calamity-update-talk

[spare pier]

[plucky juniper]

but yea anyhow

[analog tundra]

I mean, yes, but to make it more… I suppose, more legible / fluid for more people?

[spare pier]

Like I unironically think that the Yharim vs Shakidou fight is one of, if not the single most fleshed out background event I have thought out

[raven brook]

Unsure of what you mean by legible or fluid

[long bloom]

damn

[raven brook]

There are issues with the lore implementation as it is right now but that's a very well known issue

[analog tundra]

Like, I enjoy the lore remix on terraria’s old incomplete lore, so I’m getting behind it.

[raven brook]

It's being worked on

Oh no it's just nothing to do with terraria lore

[light linden]

hi madeline

[long bloom]

yeah the mod is unfinished and we're aware the lore implementation sucks

[raven brook]

Nothing about terraria lore is canon to calamity, it's doing it's own thing entirely

[spare pier]

Hi Thunder

[glacial rampart]

i love detailed historic fights :glee:

[long bloom]

also this yeah

[analog tundra]

True true, forgot about that.

[plucky juniper]

shakidou for some reason reminds me of the mystery figure that is the gloam-eyed queen mentioned in elden ring lore, whose one of her few known details is that she got beaten by maliketh

which i can easily see... given its maliketh

[spare pier]

This is probably due to there being little specification on those, but I also think that this fight is easily one of the three most important moments to Yharim's character

[long bloom]

holy

[plucky juniper]

holy

[raven brook]

my name is yharim i killed the gods

[glacial rampart]

[raven brook]

it was difficult to put the crusade together

but unfortunately something went so wrong

and now i can't do anything but recite this stupid whisper

[analog tundra]

John yharim

[spare pier]

You guys have no idea how much I want to write about that fight in specific

[plucky juniper]

my name is yharim
yharim
-# yharim
-# yharim
...

[west plume]

alternate universe where yharim became the god of stagnation: my name is yharim. i killed the gods

[raven brook]

i feel you there are also moments in my projects i am desperate to get to but can't because it's a Long Time away

[spare pier]

It's so thematically heavy

[plucky juniper]

okay but where is this going to be mentioned

because like again

[spare pier]

I have

[plucky juniper]

lore implementation issue and all

[spare pier]

Ideas.

[plucky juniper]

but like, i genuinely have no clue where shakidou connects to anything ingame

[raven brook]

the nefarious cutscene

[plucky juniper]

for all i know shakidou could've been responsible for the horrible hogs

[glacial rampart]

fuh

[west plume]

i have forced the lorewriters to create an evil repository and find a way to implement writings

it will pan out eventually

[spare pier]

I am, infact, finding ways to implement writings

[analog tundra]

Fascinating.

[long bloom]

what kind of writings

[spare pier]

Shakidou is fairly self contained

But I do have very interesting ways I plan to go around implementing their stuff

[raven brook]

lore implementation economy will be booming i trust the development team

the programmers and lore writers seem to actually be working together pretty well which is #swag

[plucky juniper]

big mistake madeline

you do not decide that the fight between yharim and some random deity is one of yharim's biggest moments, and then make em somewhat self-contained

you gotta have ramifications beyond that

[long bloom]

syrup is boosting the economy significantly

[plucky juniper]

you must. have. aftereffects

[raven brook]

syrups awesome

[spare pier]

I mean

The entire game are the aftereffects

[analog tundra]

Truth nuke

[spare pier]

[plucky juniper]

which is to say you must make shakidou connect to the horrible hog im sorry but this is the way of things

[spare pier]

Yharim defeating Shakidou is basically the entire reason he managed to get so far because it was such a colossal boost to his fame and power

[raven brook]

thats true sorry madeline

gotta connect it to the horrible hog

it's just the way things are

[long bloom]

the great hog demands it

[west plume]

never put pearls before swine

[long bloom]

the supreme hog

[analog tundra]

The people have spoken.

[pulsar ocean]

Yharim wouldn’t have defeated shakidou without the colossal help of the horrible hog

[spare pier]

Plot twist, Yharon is a horrible hog

[west plume]

yharon is a type of cop and therefore a pig

[plucky juniper]

in all seriousness tho i do think just saying "it was a massive fame (and ego) boost for yharim's crusade" is not enough to make the whole shakidou thing interesting

[dusk laurel]

the evil syrup forcing the archonlings to find increasingly more ways to implement the story into the mod...

[raven brook]

I think when she's saying it was a huge character moment for yharim it implies the fight had some emotional stakes on it

[spare pier]

Idk I think it's pretty fair, plus it's an important fight for Yharim's character progression

[raven brook]

yeah that

[spare pier]

It has both world and personal impact that can be very much felt

[west plume]

what do you think would make it interesting? do you think that the world would be equally as hollow without yharim's historical escapades and character moments?

[spare pier]

I love Roxy for coming up with that term

[raven brook]

I'm not really sure what other form of world impact you could have beyond maybe people starting to doubt Yharim's morals if Shakidou was like the first god he killed that wasn't exactyl a evil guy or something

Shakidou was the second most powerful so defeating them is first and foremost an accomplishment of power in this case

[west plume]

realistically you should be able to find an entire corpus of information about yharim ingame since he has been roaming around for a century and has not a one track mind or perfect track record

[raven brook]

So i think it makes sense for it to be established as a turning point for Yharim's influence and fame on the world

[raven brook]

This could also be interesting in a way

[plucky juniper]

i mentioned gloam eyed queen earlier because while she never appears (unless that melina theory is true), she still has a tangible impact. her godskin apostles are still a thing even if they're admittedly tragically not much part of the ingame story, and they straight up use destined death, that thing that maliketh also uses, which DOES have an impact in the ingame story

which is to say

even if shakidou is dead they should still have impacts