lore-discussion

[mighty zenith]

he's basically a villain until the second half of buu saga

[limpid saddle]

anyway yeah he killed ALOT of civilians

[mighty zenith]

plus vegeta, y'know

changed his ways

yharim did not

[maiden sail]

wait

isnt the terraria player a god

[wanton pendant]

No.

[limpid saddle]

No

[maiden sail]

because they killed yharon

[limpid saddle]

No

[wanton pendant]

No.

[limpid saddle]

They didnt do the ascension ritual

[mighty zenith]

you need to absorb the soul, not just kill the dragon yeah

[limpid saddle]

Yharon is an egg right now up in the dragon aerie

[wanton pendant]

Or acquire Yharon's soul.

[mighty zenith]

and there's no realistic way to learn the ascension ritual by that point in the story

[light moth]

“You enslaved the whole kind for your own affairs. You are… cruel”
“Yooooy, remember when you destroyed that town because they kept neutrality instead if joining you?”
I really want this dialogue to be a thing in some universe

[mighty zenith]

there's like 5 people who know it and none of them have any reason to tell you

[split mortar]

You need to do a specific ascension ritual and get the whole soul
-# it would also instakill yharim if you did

[mighty zenith]

remember, yharim can excuse genocide but he draws the line at animal cruelty

unless the animals oppose him then it's fine :)

[split mortar]

Slavery not animal cruelty

[wanton pendant]

You can excuse genocide?

[mighty zenith]

yea i just wanted to reference community

[wanton pendant]

Melon Gun doesn't know peak.

[split mortar]

I know that animal cruelty joke but i would like it to not be as genuinely believed

[light moth]

How many years Yharim lived with that attunement with Yharon btw?

[mighty zenith]

around a decade

centuey

century

sorry brain damage

[split mortar]

If we assume the attunement started since they met
Roughly a century

[split mortar]

Thats how long yharim has max

[wanton pendant]

They met 106 years ago.

[maiden sail]

did rebels support the gods ?

[wanton pendant]

Some of them probably.

[split mortar]

Bound to be some who did support some gods

[mighty zenith]

rebels were just people who fought against yharim so yeah

probably not all of them

[wanton pendant]

Some were probably indifferent or even disliked the gods but hated Yharim more.

[light moth]

https://tenor.com/view/alastor-hazbin-hotel-pfp-helluva-boss-radio-demon-gif-15134937152845399305

[split mortar]

The only constant is that they wanted to slow yharim down

[split mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/kris-pronouns-deltarune-kris-deltarune-deltarune-kris-pronouns-they-them-gif-6074482569525867005

[mighty zenith]

embed calamity

[glacial rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/nice-guy-to-bad-boy-gif-15093362524170978958

[light moth]

;))

[mighty zenith]

https://tenor.com/view/fnaf-gangnam-style-puppet-gif-6072627091288167460

[light moth]

Btw
After this talk I am really sad that Calamitas does not have as many reminders of her existence and effect on the world as Draedon

Except Ilmerian and Azafure being turned to ashes

[long bloom]

that's what happens when you have an entire huge update dedicated to you

[icy veldt]

It makes sense, though. Calamitas (post-Ilmeris, of course) is trying to "help people" and "improve the world" while Draedon doesn't give a fuck about nonsense like that

[split mortar]

Draedon has also existed for much longer

[wanton pendant]

Calamitas I recall mainly did covert missions because Yharim didn't want her dad to know he was making a child fight.

[split mortar]

And then she deleted italy

[glacial rampart]

ilmeris was quite covert yesd

[light moth]

Yeahs, but her figure is something that feared a lot of people
She was Darth Vader in Calamity from a certain perspective

[wanton pendant]

That's how he found out.

[light moth]

Wait…
Calamitas - Darth Vader
Yharim - Palpatine
Draedon - Thrawn
Excuse me, my retired Star Wars fan starts to awaken

[snow mountain]

-2

[light moth]

?

[split mortar]

Is that a niko and holloknight pfp

[light moth]

Yeah
It is a shared with my best friend pfp

[split mortar]

O cool

[light moth]

Still waiting him to return from military..

Ahem

I’m sorry

Offtop

[feral skiff]

how would someone enter the distortion?

[split mortar]

Through a portal most likely ceaseless void

[light moth]

That dimension Dog and Noxus came from?

[light moth]

Yeah

[split mortar]

And weaver

[split mortar]

Who spooks dog for some reason

[light moth]

I remember there was a talk on it here
Like, is it so?

[split mortar]

Its the case (makes no sense for dog to lie, if anything to lie about it not being the case) and someone made a theory about it

[wanton pendant]

It's an unrelated species with similar abilities. DoG views it as a threat.

Maybe he's worried Storm Weaver will steal his job eating tasty gods.

[light moth]

Maybe Dog is afraid that Weaver has the same potential as he does
So he can become his Nemesis

[wanton pendant]

DoG should consider gym.

[split mortar]

I dont think its like that
DoG is very likely purposed by noxus so just becoming strong is unlikely to be the cause of worry

[light moth]

Well…
Could DoG have treacherous thoughts on Noxus?

[wanton pendant]

I did have a theory that DoG and Storm Weaver are the same species but DoG cut a deal with Noxus for power which warped his body.

Oh, I think he absolutely does.

[light moth]

if he could - Noxus could see Weaver as a replacement to DoG

[wanton pendant]

I don't think Storm Weaver wants to work with Noxus.

[light moth]

Like, who knows what he wants lol?

[wanton pendant]

Freedom.

[split mortar]

Weaver prob is more
Wanting to be free of noxus
Hence why its somehow not it the distortion hivemind

[snow mountain]

no hes a straw

[split mortar]

Im going to throw bricks at you

[snow mountain]

pool theory is real and you know it

[split mortar]

What is the pool theory

[wanton pendant]

Boxus Theory is the best theory.

[split mortar]

😭?

[sleek cipher]

Boxy boo?

[dusk laurel]

[light moth]

DoG has the biggest ego in comparison to all Calamity chars
He would never want to be a right hand of someone

[dusk laurel]

the ironic thing is that hes literally a tool

[reef nova]

Oof, so he wouldn't let himself be petted?

[split mortar]

DoG would fucking kill you if you did that

[sleek cipher]

Why need DoG if they have Tanatos

[reef nova]

And what if I convinced him that it's like, some form of worship idk

[snow mountain]

theres an image by colgator

[reef nova]

The actually pettable wormie (If draedon lets you)

[hasty valley]

Those who know

[reef nova]

Thatanos is my goat exo mech

[hasty valley]

Thatanos

[light moth]

Yeahs
But maybe it is because he fears Noxus

[split mortar]

Ive seen it and presume its just
Dog sends god essence to noxus?

[reef nova]

Typo

[snow mountain]

cal lore would be good if it was a wuxia power fantasy

[split mortar]

Well noxus is post yharim
Yeah

[snow mountain]

noxus is a fisher-king

[hasty valley]

Energy can’t be created nor destroyed

What happens to the god essence in DOG? Who knows

[sleek cipher]

Yharim is not final boss?

[hasty valley]

Either it just gets processed as metabolism

[split mortar]

Final boss with post game super bosses

[reef nova]

He is but there are likely going to be optional superbosses I think

[hasty valley]

Or gets sent to Noxus to further empower it

[split mortar]

Draedon would detect that
Its gone

[split mortar]

Most likely the case

[snow mountain]

cus dog is a feeding tube smh

[light moth]

You can easily make somebody like dog respect you by being a bigger fish

[feral skiff]

have the superbosses actually been confirmed though?

[reef nova]

Xeroc's defo going to be there

[split mortar]

Not guaranteed to happen but if added would be post yharim

[reef nova]

...or I think

[split mortar]

Xeroc and noxus are not confirmed to be added and only will be if the devs still wanna once done with yhar

[sleek cipher]

Yharon needs a resprite so bad, there's an awesome one floating on media for years already

[split mortar]

And thats outdated

[sleek cipher]

How? It looks awesome..

[snow mountain]

what if cal lore was actually like the talmud and just 2000 year old reddit for us lorers in the place of disgruntled rabbis

[reef nova]

The worst part is that they already made a plushie of the resprite that was supposed to be the new one

[sleek cipher]

That sucks

[snow mountain]

nah it kinda sucks as a practical sprite

its more of an art piece

[reef nova]

I guess

It does look a bit hard to put in the game

without it lookinf a little strange

[light moth]

To be honest, I don’t like the idea that Yharon can stand on his 2 feet

[snow mountain]

hes a bird

he can do what he likes smh

[reef nova]

Anyway

[maiden sail]

arent dragons supposed to be standing on four legs

[reef nova]

yeah he's kind of a birdie

[reef nova]

Thing is

he's kind of a phoenix

but like

a dragon

[snow mountain]

what is this dragon gentrification

[dusk laurel]

plenty of dinosaurs (and yes birds are dinosaurs) stand on 2 legs

[reef nova]

This

[sleek cipher]

Yharon will never get resprited 🫩

[reef nova]

✅

[snow mountain]

nah dia will deliver

[reef nova]

He will

probably

[split mortar]

I trust dia

[reef nova]

Once the devs are satisfied with the look

[snow mountain]

my goat (even if his highlights hurt my eyes)

[dusk laurel]

dia got paid to do this okay?

[sleek cipher]

Watch Yharon get scrapped from the mod completely /j

[dusk laurel]

also dia is like a monster of a spriter

[split mortar]

Beams you with the most colourful colours ever

[cloud ibex]

dragons are literally whatever the fuck you want them to be

[reef nova]

They literally can't do that

it'd change the lore a whole lot

[split mortar]

And gameplay

And get them mauled by fans

[cloud ibex]

there's no "supposed to" there's no definitive "real" way a dragon looks

[reef nova]

That's a fair point

[split mortar]

Theres some dragons in irl mythos that are worm bodies

[reef nova]

Goupert comes in with wisdom as always

[reef nova]

Eastern, I think?

No

[split mortar]

Goupert vs absolute zero temperature

[reef nova]

western?

I forgot

[sleek cipher]

I only know the outdated Calamity lore..

[split mortar]

The devious document in the pins

[snow mountain]

king of the junjile but still,, social and with it

oh fuck ive eaten all the breadsticks i bought

[sleek cipher]

Oh wait wrong chat

[light moth]

I am kinda not certain about whose design was harder to settle with
DoG or Yharon…

[split mortar]

Well dog hasnt had actively made resprites through the years get restarted
So id say yharon

[dusk laurel]

yharon already had a design base for like 5 years

its just different people's takes on that base

dog on the other hand...

[mighty zenith]

yharon was moreso nobody wanting to work on it

because its a pain in the ass

[dusk laurel]

yeah

[long bloom]

7

[dusk laurel]

oh god right

[feral skiff]

PLEASE

[long bloom]

concept art released july 2018

[light moth]

Yeah, but… ya know
5 resprites of his 2 phases looks

[mighty zenith]

tbf he also hasnt been touched in, what, 6 years?

he got a bunch of them in rapid succession and then not resprited anymore afterwards

[light moth]

Fair enough

Also
When you think about it
His main problem now is phase 1
In phase 2 he looks like in the current design but less detailed

And less in size, yeah

[split mortar]

Thats cause in the resprite is based off the art cover on dm dokuros music iirc
-# in general p1 and p2 look like different worm animals iirc

[mighty zenith]

yeah current phase 1 doesnt look like phase 2 at all

[split mortar]

Isnt p1 also meant to be
Unarmored

[dusk laurel]

an issue is that the unarmored phase was built around the constrictions of the armored sprite rather than being made before

[light moth]

In phase 1 he looks like he is still in armor, but that is less layered

[dusk laurel]

thats the current sprite

[split mortar]

And im on about the current sprite which i think they responding to

[dusk laurel]

i forgot current phase 1 dog just

has a completely different shape

[mighty zenith]

the fork shaped mandibles turn into blade like mandibles somehow

[dusk laurel]

i love old calamity godbless

nothing makes sense

[long bloom]

profaned nuggets

two different snatcher bulb materials

calclone phase 1

what even was calclone phase 1

why did it survive that long

[reef nova]

Lore-accurate

[wheat walrus]

The scam bot was weak and brittle and therefore could not last in this land of the strong

It withered within the blink of an eye

[snow mountain]

am i strong omni user

[wheat walrus]

It seems you withstand in these lands

So, mayhaps

[snow mountain]

☺️

[gray flame]

What's Yharon's reason for fighting you in the current version of the lore? The lore thingy says he's not working directly with Yharim anymore, so what's his motive for fighting you?

[young socket]

thats not what it says at all

[cloud ibex]

the lore item says yharim didn't tell him to go fight you

yharon decided that on his own

[gray flame]

And that's what I'm asking, Why'd he go fight you on his own?

[mighty zenith]

he can't stand yharim's inaction

like roar of the jungle dragon says

he doesnt want yharim to die and therefore wants to try and stop you before you can reach him

[wanton pendant]

Yharon doesn't want Yharim to die, so he tries to kill you first, before you can kill Yharim.

[jaunty wraith]

Is there a lore reason why the mechanical bosses look like previous bosses?

[wanton pendant]

No.

[tropic oak]

wannabes

[wanton pendant]

Well, there is in Terraria, but not in Calamity.

[jaunty wraith]

The funny thing is it would make more sense in lore the mech bosses were made before thier base counterparts

[dusk laurel]

uhhhh

destroyer is just a repurposed variant of the armored digger (forgot what the new name of the second tier version was)

skele prime likely predates skeletron being made from the cult cursing the old man, so it was probably built with intimidation in mind, hence the skull

and then theres the twins, i have no fucking clue why they look like that other than eyes = seeing which is a part of espionage but idrk

[tropic oak]

wannabes

[gray flame]

I mean with the prevalence of worm bosses in terraria, the destroyer could easily have any number of other explanations then the eater of worlds. Skeletron Prime is in lore named that by the Terrarian, probably cause it looks like Skeletron, as for the twins, given the lore paints the Eye of Cuthulu as one of many, he might have just repurposed some other dead ones as the base for the bodies of the twins.

[wanton pendant]

I mean, I don't think Draedon was using corpses to make robots... yet.

[gray flame]

They were infused with the souls of Yharim's soldiers (who volunteered). The twins also most certainly have flesh as a part of them, which had to come from somewhere.

[dusk laurel]

they are all fully metal i believe

[wanton pendant]

Do souls count as corpses?
I feel like that's a more theological debate.

[gray flame]

this is not metal

[dusk laurel]

i just dont see it being flesh either

[cloud ibex]

i can imagine it being some synthetic imitation flesh material for aesthetic purposes

[gray flame]

I'm curious who's idea that would be though. Draedon would think it an insult, and Yharim doesn't seem like the type to care about the aesthetics of his giant death machines.

[cloud ibex]

i mean

i don't see a functional benefit to ares' evangelion shoulders or samurai helmet or Having A Whole Ass Skeleton Torso In There

i do believe draedon cares about aesthetics to an extent, just not enough so that it compromises function

[gray flame]

Then again, Draedon had a problem with the mech bosses having too much independence, they may have done it themselves like how pilots put teeth on their fighters.

[glacial rampart]

I feel like draedon sees a certain level of aesthetic as important

he cant simply make a machine that performs at a peak

if all it appears to be is metal

that doesnt say much about his skill

making it perform at the peak while also clearly being intricately designed might satisfy him more

or idk maybe im talking out my ass

He definitely would never sacrifice form over function

But I feel like draedon isnt the kind of person to completely forgo form

i mean

Ares has all that stuff

he clearly cared enough to give ares a samurai helmet

[pliant ruin]

Draedon def cares about aesthethics to an extent, as leon saida, just as long as it dosen't compromise functionality

He sees his work as a form of art

It only makes sense

[pulsar ocean]

ok so highkey
why would dog ever go out of his way to save yharim's bum

[wanton pendant]

Because Yharim signs his pay check.

[pulsar ocean]

dog gets paid?

[wanton pendant]

Obviously, that's how a job works.

You think Yharim's just a heartless lunatic that enslaves people?
No, he pays a fair wage.

That's how he kept the war machine up.

[cloud ibex]

yharim is his source of godly essence

[pulsar ocean]

why is yharon angry if like the whole journey we've been killing gods and godlike beings and we also killed dog

[cloud ibex]

yharim goes around killing gods, DoG vacuums the essence and does whatever the hell with it

[distant smelt]

Because we’re totally gonna try and kill yharim

[pulsar ocean]

how would he know that tho

[wanton pendant]

Because it's written right there in the script.

[distant smelt]

Vibes

Terrarian exudes godseeker murder energy

[foggy oriole]

Is there a lore reason for why the sulphurous sea is so acidic

[cloud ibex]

fumes from azafure + draedon dumping bullshit in there

[wanton pendant]

So the thing about sulphur is that it's acidic, so if enough leaches into the water it becomes highly acidic.
Also there's plutonium in there.
Because apparently the super genius AI couldn't think of anywhere better to put it.

[pulsar ocean]

why isn't plutonium on Pluto

[wanton pendant]

Because he's a dog, he can't carry that much.

[pulsar ocean]

@grok is this true

[gray flame]

I don't think he is angry. Frankly I think he's expecting us to kill him. He's gonna make it hard to ensure he's not getting replaced by someone weaker, but with all the regrets he lists in the lore, and the lack of him trying to stop us from getting stronger, makes me think he intends for us to beat him, and replace him.

oh wait you said Yharon

Yharon doesn't want Yharim dead, and is taking the inititive to stop the player before they get too strong (though he's too late).

[cloud ibex]

yharim doesn't necessarily want to die but he's willing to die if it means catalyzing you into following in his footsteps

[pulsar ocean]

What footsteps if there's like one and a half god left

[snow mountain]

im also there

[gray flame]

The one and a half gods are much stronger then Slime God and Providence.

[cloud ibex]

that we know of

[gray flame]

Though part 2 of his footsteps is seeing if there's a way to bring back the dragons isn't it?

Though the Terrarian isn't exactly a good choice for that, cause they'd need the help of a reborn Yharon, who is probably not gonna be very happy with them.

[wanton pendant]

Bringing the dragons back is impossible.
Even Yharim seems to know that, given how he speaks about those who wish to.
Without their Auric Souls, there is nothing that can be done.

[tropic oak]

Bringing the dragons back is impossible.
it is. unless i grab a cosmolight and spam reverse it

[gray flame]

Ehhh, he mentions the cultists being his friends once, I figured they stopped being friends over all the other evil stuff the cultists started doing.

[wanton pendant]

No, Yharim used their house to breed evil ghost monsters that eat people.

[gray flame]

I know how to bring back the dragons pulls ocarina of time

[wanton pendant]

Additionally, compared to Yharim the Dragon Cult is quite tame.

I mean, I don't recall them ever starting a genocide for 105 years.
They did participate in it, but they didn't start it!

Hell, they're actively trying to prevent the apocalypse.
Compared to Yharim they're saints.

[gray flame]

They cursed Chippy Gaming!

[wanton pendant]

Chippy Gaming should have read the No Trespassing sign and left well enough alone.

[gray flame]

They kidnapped the mechanic, for some reason.

Why'd they actualy want her given she didn't make the mech bosses in Calamity.

[light linden]

I uh

I think there is actually

albeit extremely little

[pulsar ocean]

How did plutonium escape Pluto

[light linden]

it didn't

[pulsar ocean]

So why did they name it after the celestial body

[light linden]

it's an extremely rare material with relation to uranium

[light linden]

no idea

[gray flame]

They needed to call it something.

[young socket]

because of uranium and neptunium

(uranus and neptune)

[queen swallow]

saturnium

jupitium

marsine

uhh idk im stupid and cant think of more random names

[icy veldt]

Jovium
Martium
Terrarium 👀
Venerium
Mercurium

[magic epoch]

terrarium..?

[inner pasture]

Wait... Is Yharim just too powerful, or did he somehow link his soul to Yharon's? Like, becoming some kind of God through linked ascension?

Or maybe linking their souls isn't possible, or I don't know, since we're talking about Yharon...

[cloud ibex]

he's not a god but he did link his soul to yharon's yes

[inner pasture]

Right on the nail, thanks!

So is it possible that other dragons could do the same? Or is it just Yharon's ability? As the dragon who can be reborn and revive other dragons, I understand.

[cloud ibex]

probably yes

think it's been theorized (or outright confirmed i don't remember) that Xeroc was attuned to Zeratros before they ascended

which is how they can use things made of auric metal in their concept art

[inner pasture]

But we being the Terrarian, when we defeat Yharon we can have access to the auric ore… do we absorb his soul?

[cloud ibex]

nah

you don't know how

there's, like, seven? people alive by the time you roll around who know the ritual

and they all either have no reason to tell you or aren't really capable of telling you

[inner pasture]

So how do we get access to that metal? Or do we only get it after defeating Yharon, like a placeholder for progression?

[cloud ibex]

i don't think we have a solid answer on that at the moment

[feral skiff]

it just kinda gets buried in the rock somehow

doesn't really make that much sense

[inner pasture]

Oh, and the auric ore was created by the dragons?

Or is it part of the event of the fragmentation of the world soul?

[plucky juniper]

i kinda wish there was more to hone this point in

what if, say, Yharon, yes specifically the Yhar with the on, told the Dragon Cult to try resurrecting one of his fellow kin?

[pulsar ocean]

Maybe like around 6 or 7

[distant smelt]

they've been trying for a while already

[plucky juniper]

That, for drama reasons, would fail

[young socket]

gods cant use auric

[pulsar ocean]

After yharon died the soil absorbed his corpse and made auric ore

[young socket]

the terrarian can use auric without it rejecting by putting the fragments of yharons soul into it, pacifying its rejection capabilities

[pulsar ocean]

Why don't we politely ask draedon to integrate exo miracle tech into our auric armor

[plucky juniper]

what if, say, this was a different origin to the Polterghast? Instead of being the result of prolonged indifference that Yharim had towards his enemies, what if it was a failed attempt to resurrect an auric dragon?

[pulsar ocean]

To make it better than yharim's

[plucky juniper]

Wait, why do we get fragments of Yharon's soul?

[young socket]

probably happens whenever he dies

[feral skiff]

how does xeroc manage to create identical copies of bosses during the Boss Rush

or make them fight against the player

[young socket]

"I wish to test your strength, using fragments of my Primordial Light taking the form of your past foes."

they say this during the opening of boss rush

[feral skiff]

is Primordial light god energy/sun energy

[cloud ibex]

weird sunlight, essentially

[wanton pendant]

So do you know what the Green Lanterns are?

[frosty charm]

eight if you didn't include silva
granted she's a sea booger rn but she'll come back eventually

[cloud ibex]

i did include her

silva and rav are in the "know the ritual but can't really tell you" camp (and also probably wouldn't have a reason to)

[feral skiff]

no???

[warm gull]

do you think she wouldn't just tell you if you asked

[cloud ibex]

i mean i guess i can't really imagine a reason she wouldn't but i also can't really imagine why she would either

[gray flame]

Why do y’all want to eat Yharon’s soul? Be better then the gods for crying out loud.

[pliant ruin]

i mean yharon kinda deserves it i cant lie

a few dragons probably deserved it

dragon of flame definitely did

[plucky juniper]

Well, if you're told that Auric Dragons drop Auric Souls upon death, and yet the only one you ever fight... doesn't (all you get is soul fragments), well you're bound to be a little more than disappointed.

[real silo]

He stinky evil baby

Deserves all the bad in the world

[sinful adder]

Yharon is worse than the gods, and deserves it

[crystal pendant]

I’m eated him

[split mortar]

Ascending with yharon is deserved

[woeful hatch]

Not all gods were bad

[frosty charm]

Gods and dragons aren't black and white evil and good

[snow mountain]

zekrom and reshiram

[light moth]

Is he though?
He was just trying to resurrect his own kind
Yharim is at fault for all war crimes, not him

[pulsar ocean]

Like, I'm kinda just saving yharon from suffering yk yk
In those 20 years everyone he knew and loved could fucking die and that would continue forever

[sinful adder]

This is completely incorrect

Yharon was 100% with yharim on everything. Yharon wanted to kill all the gods basically for revenge

[pulsar ocean]

Yharon was literally the one that told yharim to do that shit

[sinful adder]

Additionally, a lot of the dragons were evil and arguably deserved to die

[pulsar ocean]

Name ten evil dragons

[light moth]

Well, okay
He participated in Yharim’s crusade
As well as Draedon, Calamitas and Dog
But I am not surprised considering that the whole world massacred his kind whose purpose was to protect this world

[pulsar ocean]

He is the main catalyst of the crusade

Unlike anyone else

[sinful adder]

We don't know of 10 dragons period

I can name 3, out of the... 7ish dragons we know

Yharon, flame dragon, old duke

[frosty charm]

We don't even have ten named dragons that point is moot

[sinful adder]

These are evil dragons

[light moth]

This crusade itself was justified
The way how it was overdone is at Yharim’s hands

[frosty charm]

Point is that the dragons and gods aren't inherently good or evil, that's kind of the point. Yharim sees them as black and white because he can't understand anything else; a dragon saved him and a god hurt him

[mighty zenith]

was it though?

[sinful adder]

No it wasn't

[mighty zenith]

yharim went judge, jury and executioner on all gods

did not care about their lives, all the good they've done with their powers

[sinful adder]

You've fallen for the yharpaganda

[split mortar]

Yharon encouraged yharim

[mighty zenith]

just because they slayed a dragon they had to be murdered

alongside all their followers

[split mortar]

From the start it was genocide

[cloud ibex]

Think of it this way

[sinful adder]

Yharon and yharim were far worse than all but the most evil gods

[frosty charm]

Again the point is that he sees it as being so comically black and white

[sinful adder]

This is unambiguously true

[frosty charm]

If you're associated with a god, you're evil

[cloud ibex]

If every god deserved to die because every god has killed a dragon

What if the dragon killed people

[frosty charm]

If you're associated with a dragon or him, you're good enough

Yes he had conflicting feelings but he actively pushed them aside because they worked with him

[mighty zenith]

if they did yharim would not tell you

and he does not tell you

[sinful adder]

At least a third of dragons were very evil

Based on info we know

Actually...

[frosty charm]

He just kinda neglects shit until he needs to mention it or it makes him look good

[split mortar]

Yharon was prob chill before gods arose

[sinful adder]

Statistically given what we know about the characters, the gods and dragons were equally evil

[frosty charm]

Granted it may very well be a symptom of the linear boss progression but I do think it's a pretty important facet

[mighty zenith]

ehh thats still grouping them up

they were individuals

with their own lives

[sinful adder]

Of course. I don't actually agree with this kind of judgement

But if you were to count it that way, it would

[pulsar ocean]

Zeratros was a plot device

[split mortar]

So are you

[mighty zenith]

the terrarian is a plot device

[light moth]

I never said that every god was evil
And I never said that their followers had to be slayed
But most of exactly had to be killed
Yharim and Yharon never knew that Zeratos accepted Xeroc to consume his soul

[pulsar ocean]

What do we even know of zeratros as an individual except that he was a dipshit that made surface uninhabitable

[sinful adder]

That's still very much irrelevant

[mighty zenith]

the point is he had no idea what happened at that time

he's making assumptions

and judging gods based on those assumptions

[sinful adder]

Like.

[light moth]

Wait, he did?

[sinful adder]

How do I explain this

[mighty zenith]

he's killing them based on how he feels about them

[sinful adder]

Yeah that's one of many things

[mighty zenith]

that's not justified

[pulsar ocean]

Yes

[sinful adder]

Based on what we know about gods and dragons, the gods were better people and the dragons were tyrants

This is massively oversimplifying

[split mortar]

After xeroc ascended the sun got drastically dimmer to the point people could live on the surface without much issue

[sinful adder]

But humans couldn't live on the surface because the dragons lived there and made it inhospitable

[pulsar ocean]

How do you know god of dogma didn't like eating children for breakfast

[sinful adder]

Basically every part of yharim's mission was wrong, he just also killed some bad people along the way

[mighty zenith]

god of dogma eating children for breakfast doesnt mean otonilou or silva did the same

[sinful adder]

Some of his anger was justified. The vast majority wasn't. His reasoning was also never good, the good he did was more or less coincidence

[light moth]

Well, I never knew about it, sorry
I will say that I dont know what Yharon did during the crusade
Like, I know that Calamitas burned Azafure and Ilmeris
And Draedon made weapons, mechs and used half of the ocean as a Junkyard
But what Yharon did?

[split mortar]

Yharon is lot more understandable and tragic then yharim imo
But
Still as evil

[split mortar]

Uh
Not a whole lot is known on what yharon did rn

We just know yharon fully supported yharim the entire time

[mighty zenith]

yeah and that's enough

everyone else who isnt a malicious bastard gummy worm left

or got kicked out

yharon was supportive of yharim's attrocities until his death

[split mortar]

Malicious bastard gummy worm

[light moth]

Maybe he supported his cause, but questioned his methods?

[split mortar]

We have no proof yharon questioned the methods

[mighty zenith]

trust me

if there is anyone yharim would listen to

it's yharon

[split mortar]

Yeah

[sinful adder]

We have every reason to believe that yharon was 100% perfectly on board with everything

[split mortar]

If yharon told yharim to not groom the child yharim would almost certainly listen

[sinful adder]

The soul attunement thing also makes that almost guaranteed

[mighty zenith]

"I will go forth and win your war"

[sinful adder]

They are so in sync that their souls seem indistinguishable or something

[split mortar]

Yeah rotjd still fits yharons character

[light moth]

Like, I understand why Yharon didnt go against him
He had no choice if he wanted to return the age of dragons
Because he knew that until the gods are slayed it will be impossible
He already noticed how people killed dragons and became a victim of this
What else assumptions he could have with his experience?

[split mortar]

Even with gods dead returning to the dragon age is impossible

[split mortar]

Yeah yharon is understandable

Not really
Justified

[sleek cipher]

Xeroc started it

He is the main villain

Imo

[split mortar]

Yharims the one who halved the world population so id say its yharim

[mighty zenith]

as far as we know xeroc didn't cause the deaths of half the people in the world

so idk i think yharim may be worse

[sleek cipher]

He did, isnt Yharim like that because what Xeroc did

?

[cloud ibex]

ok but why did xeroc do it

[sleek cipher]

Power

[cloud ibex]

xeroc didn't randomly decide to permakill zeratros out of nowhere

they did it because zeratros was already dying after ML's attack, and for whatever reason he was about to die forever

and considering Zeratros was the one who kep the sun going, the power of primordial light forever being lost would be Really Fuckin Bad

[split mortar]

The threat of a second moonlord incident was too great for xeroc to not ascend and be the worlds guardian

[sleek cipher]

Oh also, wasn't Moon lord MUCH more powerful?

[split mortar]

Yeah second strongest character ever

[cloud ibex]

even if we assume zeratros never consented to having his soul absorbed, i wouldn't say Xeroc was evil for not wanting the sun to explode

[sleek cipher]

Oh

[light moth]

Just try to get my point
Yharon is the reason of the cause
Yharim is the reason of how it was settled to be achieved
If Yharon killed only those gods, who were definitely guilty, while not participating at race genocides or city destructions, I can’t call him evil

[mighty zenith]

the fact yharim HIMSELF says zeratros' power would be lost forever

and still calls xeroc the traitor almighty

[cloud ibex]

prime ML is "all the currently alive top tiers minus Xeroc and Noxus working together to fight him could maybe win, and even then it's not a certainty" tier

[light moth]

What about Noxus?

[mighty zenith]

bro was ripped in half, potentially blinded in his main eyes, has his skull exposed and was in a coma for several centuries

[split mortar]

Noxus is third

[mighty zenith]

and he's still in the top 1% of strongest beings

[cloud ibex]

noxus is weaker than ML was when he threw hands with the dragons

[mighty zenith]

moon lord is a god damn survivor

[split mortar]

Hell moonlord could theoretically survive decapitation according to the writers

[mighty zenith]

the core is seemingly the only thing he needs to stay alive

like a heart on steroids

[cloud ibex]

yea the fact that he went through all this, got sealed away for 800 years and is still immediately ready to fuck shit up when he's unsealed should speak to how much of an issue he was back then

[split mortar]

Yharon still supported yharim when he left polter to hurt the dragon cultists or when yhairm groomed a literal minor into nuking ilmeris off the map
Id still say thats evil

[light moth]

Calamitas was a minor when she destroyed Ilmeris?

[split mortar]

Yes

Yharim groomed her into being a reusable nuke while she was a minor

[wanton pendant]

Like, 16.

And that was after years of working for him.

[split mortar]

And with what we know of attunement
Yharon likely is the exact same level of extreme as yharim

[light moth]

I thought that when she was a teen, she destroyed only Azafure

[glacial rampart]

i never consider the idea that moon lord used to not just be a torso

[dusk laurel]

she was like 12 when that happened

[wanton pendant]

Everyone forgets Moon Lord's Legs.

[light moth]

In terms of raw power, probably
But not forgetting about his hellish armor and weaponary

(Okay, just one sword)

[wanton pendant]

I think they mean in genocidalness.

[light moth]

Ah, well

[split mortar]

^

[light moth]

Btw
Check dms pls

[wanton pendant]

Melon Gun was never seen again...

[light moth]

https://tenor.com/view/starscream-smile-transformers-transformers-prime-gif-24087177

[split mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/kris-pronouns-deltarune-kris-deltarune-deltarune-kris-pronouns-they-them-gif-6074482569525867005

[maiden sail]

guys

how to have a working tmodloader calamity server where u can play with freinds

[wanton pendant]

What does this have to do with genocide?

[split mortar]

#help-advice-read-pins prob has people more knowledgable on this topic

[gray flame]

Wouldn’t Yharon revive Zeratros?

[cloud ibex]

he couldn't

something about ML's attack meant that "his power, along with his life, would be lost forever"

[pliant ruin]

Yeah there's a reason ML's attack on the dragons was so devastating

they died For Real

[wanton pendant]

You know Lunar Bite?
That's probably canon somehow.

He has anti-life-steal.

[pliant ruin]

If they could just be revived them there'd be no reason for the dragons population to have been even lowered after ML's attack

[gray flame]

Ok, but it’s still kinda shit that it led to everyone realizing they could become superpowered if they permakilled a dragon and started genociding the lot of them.

[pliant ruin]

Yeah i don't think xeroc is too happy about that

I personally am of the belief that Xeroc dosen't regret what he did

He did what he had to do, and ultimately, probably did the right thing

But that dosen't mean he won't feel guilt about the unfortunate consequences of his actions

[gray flame]

I mean with how powerful he supposedly is, couldn’t he have stopped it?

[wanton pendant]

Probably.

[pliant ruin]

Stopped what?

[wanton pendant]

But would that be a good use of his power?

Arbitrating how the world should work?

[pliant ruin]

Who stopped what i need more context here 😭

[gray flame]

The genocide of the dragons.

[wanton pendant]

Would that not make him a tyrant?

[pliant ruin]

Ah

Yeah so he could've also stopped Yharim's crusade. And he didn't

So for one reason or another

Dude isn't really. acting much on terraria

[gray flame]

Protecting a people from genocide doesn’t make someone a tyrant.

[pliant ruin]

Probably because he's too busy from the Horrors all things considered

[wanton pendant]

Is it protecting or is it controlling?

[cloud ibex]

if we go by the assumption that they're focusing on keeping things that shouldn't be on the planet off of the planet, maybe they were just busy

[gray flame]

Especially when it’s his actions that started the thing.

[cloud ibex]

why should they get the right to decide that

what if they decided agnus' followers shouldn't have to donate their blood for his sake, even though agnus was beloved by all of them

[gray flame]

The right to decide others don’t deserve to die for existing?

[cloud ibex]

what if they decided they didn't like otonilou, even though she's been described as "a saint"

[pliant ruin]

you're just describing yharim

[sleek cipher]

Draedon is so attention seeking

[cloud ibex]

why should they get to decide which gods are evil

[sleek cipher]

Also, why is Scal so powerful

[gray flame]

Harming others=evil.

[wanton pendant]

She got magic.

[cloud ibex]

the way i interpret xeroc is that they've focused entirely on safeguarding the planet from outside threats and has sworn not to interfere with internal matters, so to speak

[pliant ruin]

I feel like when you reach the level of power that Xeroc has

Using that power against, anyone, really

Would just feel innately unfair

[wanton pendant]

Unless you're like, Fovos or something that strong.

[cloud ibex]

again, agnus' followers quite literally harmed themselves for his sake

[pliant ruin]

Not only that, but there are threats on the world that really only xeroc can deal with

(stares at noxus)

[wanton pendant]

I mean, is Noxus really 'on' the world?

[pliant ruin]

so yeah i believe Xeroc is just. entirely focused on dealing with That

[cloud ibex]

but they all loved him because ultimately, he was a kind deity of protection

[gray flame]

All consensual.

[wanton pendant]

Maybe making the sun work takes a lot of concentration so he can't focus on everything else.

[pliant ruin]

Sure, Xeroc could like, smite down random John Evil

[cloud ibex]

i don't think xeroc has the time to personally review every single one of the maybe thousands of gods out there to decide which of them are evil and which of them aren't

[sleek cipher]

Wait why didnt he touch Yharim then

[pliant ruin]

But would that be worth

1. Taking away the time he could be using to protect the earth from much bigger threats nobody else can reasonably deal with
2. Possibly making a wrong judgement and killing someone who didn't deserve it with his allmighty power

Like again when you're as strong as Xeroc is i think it'd just feel unfair

[gray flame]

I don’t mean smite John evil. I mean if John Evil is working to kill a dragon for his own power, show up and tell him to fuck off.

[pliant ruin]

So like

[wanton pendant]

Yharim Fought The Sun Theory:

[pliant ruin]

He'd have to personally go to every single dragon

Atleast the ones that he judges as Not Deserving Of Death, that is

[sleek cipher]

Is Xeroc considered an upcoming boss?

[pliant ruin]

Which would also require him to make that judgement

[wanton pendant]

Yeah, more or less.

[cloud ibex]

potentially

[pliant ruin]

and every single time someone tries killing them he'd have to do that

[sleek cipher]

Hes kinda chill, why would we kill him?

[magic epoch]

We can't

[wanton pendant]

That's the neat part, you don't.

[pliant ruin]

All while you keep in mind of his current active role as the only real line of defense earth has against threats like noxus

[sleek cipher]

Then why is he upcoming boss 😭

[snow mountain]

noxus is a fisher king fraud

[magic epoch]

It's would more be like play for Xeroc; they wouldn't actually die

[pliant ruin]

you dont have to

kill bosses

mfw calamitas

mfw draedon

[magic epoch]

They are way above you in strength

[snow mountain]

earth 😭

[sleek cipher]

Cheat sheet:

[wanton pendant]

Xeroc needs to visit the gym sometimes and he needs a sparring partner.

[pliant ruin]

xeroc's fight is just a sparring match yeah

[wanton pendant]

You're the only guy alive who won't get vaporised.

[pliant ruin]

you're just vibing

[sleek cipher]

Cool

[gray flame]

Protecting people from those that want to harm them isn’t some sort of evil just because your incredibly capable of it.

[pliant ruin]

It's not evil

But again

What if he makes the wrong judgement

It's not as simple as just

[wanton pendant]

Also, Xeroc isn't omniscient.
Or omnipotent, or omnipresent.

[pliant ruin]

Go go gadget xeroc blast. kill all evil in the world

[wanton pendant]

He can't do everything.

[pliant ruin]

And once again

[woeful hatch]

Ok but either he also keeps an eye on everyone all the time , to be able to judge who's evil and who's not, or he risks making big mistakes

[pliant ruin]

That's not accounting for the fact he's already Very Busy

[pliant ruin]

Yeah he has t

[sleek cipher]

Then hes not a god really 😭
Just a super powerful being

[pliant ruin]

no hes literally a god

god does not mean omniscient omnipotent omnipresent

not even by the actual dictionary definition

let alone in calamity's story

[sleek cipher]

Oh

[wanton pendant]

God (Bible) is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent.
But God (Bible) is not a character in Calamity, and is not Xeroc.

[cloud ibex]

calamity gods are more like norse or greek gods

where they're basically just Very Powerful Dudes

[sleek cipher]

Yeah

[pliant ruin]

As i was saying uh

[woeful hatch]

That's all gods in calamity lore

They're powerful, and have control over a domain, but not all-powerful all-knowing etc

Also even IRL not all gods are the image of the Abrahamic omnipotent gods, more akin to like Greek ones

[pliant ruin]

For Xeroc to do that he'd have to

[gray flame]

Awwww, I want a Jesus boss battle.

[wanton pendant]

Me too, kid.

[glacial rampart]

yeah its not capital J God its just a god

[cloud ibex]

jesus died in the crusade sorry

[pliant ruin]

-Be able to make a judgement of anyone he deems as "evil", which would require him to have alot of surrounding context and thus extensive observation to really be able to make any sort of fair judgement

• Go out of his way to stop them

[cloud ibex]

the god of mercy was slain by the godseeker

[gray flame]

He’ll be back.

[pliant ruin]

All while he's still, again, actively doing the entire protecting the world from The Horrors stuff

[glacial rampart]

as hes struck down he says to yharim "i forgive you"

[cloud ibex]

sping tab,,,,

[wanton pendant]

Looking at Ravager, uh, best not.

[pliant ruin]

otonilou

[fleet wedge]

He has what?

[cloud ibex]

you know what yeah true

[wanton pendant]

Preventing something like the Draconic Hunts would require Xeroc to basically micromanage the entire world. He's still a guy at the end of the day, nobody could do that.

[gray flame]

I mean I get your point about him not being everywhere, but I do want to say I’m not saying he should judge based on “good” and “evil” but instead if someone is currently actively bringing harm onto others or not.

[cloud ibex]

ok i've already mentioned agnus but think of it this way

consider the God of Dogma

[sleek cipher]

Is devourer of gods a god?

[wanton pendant]

No.

He devours them.

Eating a burger doesn't make you a cow.

[gray flame]

He’d probably tell you yes though.

[magic epoch]

asterisk needed

[wanton pendant]

I mean, he literally does.

[magic epoch]

"A GOD DOES NOT FEAR DEATH!"

[wanton pendant]

Not because he's a god, but because he's a narcissist.

[cloud ibex]

they were most definitely a bastard considering the biome that spawned from, among other deities, their remains, is literally called The Corruption

[glacial rampart]

speak for yourself

[wanton pendant]

What did I even do!?

[gray flame]

Good, that means I don’t have to chase you down because you ram.

[glacial rampart]

moo

[cloud ibex]

considering their domain is literally Dogma i don't think it's an unreasonable assumption to make that their followers were entirely dedicated to their cause, despite them being a bastard

[glacial rampart]

i eat burgers

🐄

me

[magic epoch]

Cannibal

[wanton pendant]

Well, I can think of one guy in his sphere of influence that wasn't.

[cloud ibex]

does that still make them evil when their followers believed whatever they were doing was right?

[gray flame]

But like, I honestly wouldn’t kill Yharim in the context of the current situation in calamity cause he’s quite literally not doing shit. He’s no longer a threat to people and I personally don’t do revenge killing.

[cloud ibex]

the point me and cheese are making is that xeroc, despite (or maybe even because of) all their power, doesn't deserve to be the final arbiter of moral godhood

nobody does

[glacial rampart]

except me

line up

[cloud ibex]

you don't count

[glacial rampart]

awww

goupert never lets me cast my divine judgement

[gray flame]

I also skip fighting aquatic scourge cause he’s actively peacefully.

[cloud ibex]

the last time you did you raptured a flock of seagulls

we're not doing that again

[glacial rampart]

they deserved what they got

retribution is never wrong

i dont make the rules

[woeful hatch]

There is no way seagulls are getting into heaven

[magic epoch]

just because they stole 1 (one) of your chips doesn't mean they deserve extinction that's just an animal being an animal

[glacial rampart]

being raptured is a good thing guys

[cloud ibex]

i like the way rebecca phrased it once

[glacial rampart]

smh

[wanton pendant]

If you didn't plan on killing Yharim, you'd have little reason to fight your way to him.
Once you hit Draedon there's no real other explanation for you to seek and destroy every poweful being, except numero uno (not including messed up Distortion guy or the Tellytubby sun (and I guess you don't murder Calamitas, so there's that)).
If you gave up now, it'd be a strange decision for you (Terrarian is you) to make.

[cloud ibex]

yharim and yharon represent refusal to let go of the old age and forever holding onto the past

[woeful hatch]

Yharim is Gwyn confirmed

[cloud ibex]

if yharim just died peacefully in his sleep (however peacefully someone like Yharim could ever sleep, mind you), he'd still in a sense forever have a grip on the world because nobody could ever reach the heights he did

[wanton pendant]

(If you really wanted to make a narrative reason you're forced to fight him, you could just say that if the Terrarian just refuses to show up Yharim will eventually seek them out himself.)

[cloud ibex]

by being the one to kill him, you signal that the era of the crusade is finally over, and people can finally move on to rebuild the world

[gray flame]

Maybe I just didn’t want to die to some slimes, but got stronger only to be jumped by the Eye of Cuthulu, and so on. I keep getting stronger cause the world keeps getting more hostile, and every time I do, more very powerful enemies show up to try and beat my ass.

[wanton pendant]

Yeah, you can justify that, up until Draedon.
You challenged Draedon.
He didn't attack you.

And also, I guess Lunatic Cultist was just doing his own thing.

[gray flame]

Weird dude was doing cult stuff outside a dungeon and I made an error in judgment.

[wanton pendant]

What if that was just an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting?
Jerk.

[woeful hatch]

Could also justify it with your character knowing about the dragon cult

And their association with Yharim

After all

[wanton pendant]

I'd be a bit arbitrary to decree that they should die but Yharim should live.
Maybe you (Terrarian is you) really should go to that meeting.

[woeful hatch]

I mean, honestly it's easy to say "I don't think Yharim should die because he's not doing anything rn"

Try and apply it to IRL dictators. How would you feel if they got away Scot free

[gray flame]

Miscommunication, I just wanted to know what he did to Jetstream Sam.

[wanton pendant]

'Who the hell is Jetstream Sam? I have no idea who that is.' -Draedon.

[gray flame]

If them getting away scot free was the cost for them no longer participating in oppression I think that’s a worthwhile deal.

[glacial rampart]

you can justify it up until wall of flesh

[gray flame]

Bro, his sword was in one of your labs.

[woeful hatch]

Would you be ok with a murderer not going to prison if they said "no I won't murder again"

[pliant ruin]

I mean honestly yeah

[wanton pendant]

'Oh, this thing? I found it in a second hand shop. Looks pretty cool, don't you think? I was going to weld it onto Ares.'

[gray flame]

Killed voodoo demon over lava, it was an accident, I swear.

[woeful hatch]

"honestly yeah" as in I was making a good point or as in you'd be ok if a murderer not going to prison if they said they wouldn't kill again

[pliant ruin]

The latter

Wait

I misread lmao

I missed that "not"

[woeful hatch]

Oh phew

[cloud ibex]

user parmiigianoreggiano will accept murderers back into society as long as they pinky swear not to do it again

[wanton pendant]

I would rather them not killing than killing.
But I would also much rather them facing punishment and imprisonment.

[pliant ruin]

would be hypocritical if i didnt

[glacial rampart]

she will not be raptured when i make my final judgement

[pliant ruin]

as we all know i have murdered people before

i'm cute and funny though so its ok

[glacial rampart]

goupert however will be raptured

[pliant ruin]

https://tenor.com/view/yippie-needy-streamer-overload-kangel-omgkawaiiangel-cutecore-gif-14031673047555202803

[wanton pendant]

I wonder what that gif could possibly be.

[glacial rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-legends-za-let's-go-dyn4mo-canari-canari-pokemon-canari-pokemon-legends-gif-13709885810695749847

me

[wanton pendant]

I guess we'll never know.

[woeful hatch]

https://tenor.com/view/jerma-stare-gif-25080910

[pliant ruin]

hbyeah i can like

see the argument ofr "well yharim isnt rly doing anything so i dont particularly care about killing him"

like thats not exactly unreasonable

But at the same time

It dosen't make the idea of killing him for what he did less reasonable eithere

[woeful hatch]

I can also see HOW it origins but it's definitely an argument that comes from not having seen first hand what he did , and just having to trust Yharim

[wanton pendant]

Idea:
Find the entrance to the Dragon Aerie and seal it.
Problem solved, Yharim is now imprisoned and you didn't kill him, thus you're not a murderer (ignore everyone else).

[woeful hatch]

That's assuming the dragon aerie is a pocket dimension and not just a hidden sky island or whatever

[wanton pendant]

Now you have your own discount Phantom Zone.

[wanton pendant]

Build a really strong box around it.

[glacial rampart]

yes because the phantom zone always works out super well at keeping whoever is in there locked up

just ask superman

[woeful hatch]

Arena blocks box 🔥

[wanton pendant]

I don't know Superman, but I know his good friend Clark Kent, maybe I'll ask him about it.

[pliant ruin]

contain the aerie in xeroc blocks........

[glacial rampart]

xerocks

holy

bazinga ..

ughh cheese carry on my legacy i just brushed my teeth and i tihnk i accidentally swalloed a little bit of mouthwash

im dying

[wanton pendant]

Skill issue.

[light moth]

Prison is made with purpose to prevent criminals from doing crimes
Yharim doesn’t need it unless there is a possibility that he will return

[woeful hatch]

Well

There is the possibility he will return

If he wants to

He can just get up and get out

[wanton pendant]

Nothing stopping him from walking out and finding the nearest super powered minor.

[woeful hatch]

That sounds horrible

[gray flame]

I’m not saying that you shouldn’t, just that I wouldn’t, we’ll unless I show up at his place and he gives a grand speech and asks me to join him in finishing his crusade.

[wanton pendant]

I mean, he is actively trying to groom you (Terrarian is you).

[pliant ruin]

yeah i think thats a valid enough take

[woeful hatch]

I don't think that's what grooming means, this is more like normal manipulation

[sleek cipher]

What will Yharim drop?

[wanton pendant]

Eh, grooming has more than one meaning, it's like grooming you as a successor.

[wanton pendant]

Yharim Bars.

[light moth]

Blood

[woeful hatch]

Yhadrip

[pliant ruin]

probalby a sword

atleast

like at the very least hes gonna drop a sword surely

[wanton pendant]

Yharim Beam Staff.

[pliant ruin]

a trophy and a mask while we're at it

[sleek cipher]

Isnt his sword already craftable?

[pliant ruin]

no

[gray flame]

Then again he might be all like “kill me and your journey to the dark side will be complete”

[woeful hatch]

Watch him drop gauntlets to punch hard instead

[wanton pendant]

Bro.
That was years ago.

[pliant ruin]

me when i craft the main villain and final boss's sword in early hardmode

[wanton pendant]

And then make a better sword after Polterghast.

[gray flame]

OMW to end the Jungle Tyrant with the Tyranny’s End.

[sleek cipher]

What was years ago? (sorry i wasnt in this community for a long time)

[wanton pendant]

Tyrant's Ultisword got renamed.

[pliant ruin]

yharims sword being craftable

[woeful hatch]

There was a weapon called Tyrant's ultisword

[wanton pendant]

And the True Tyrant's Ultisword.

[light moth]

Yeah, his current sword is different from the one you do after plantera

[woeful hatch]

At that time, astreal defeat was the bow of Yharim's mother too

Old lore was funny

[pliant ruin]

the evil angel and demon war

[wanton pendant]

We don't even know what his current sword looks like.

[gray flame]

Wait, if he uses a sword what the hell is his crystal?

[wanton pendant]

Why was it even spelt like that?
What kind of a name is Astreal?

[sleek cipher]

Yeah i remember that, but why would they remove that lore?

[pliant ruin]

Yeha i don't think we've seen any official designs for his sword yet

[pliant ruin]

they didn't "remove" that lore

all of the lore got rewritten

like

three years ago

at this point

[cloud ibex]

i mean

[wanton pendant]

Don't press into the poor guys health issues.
He's old, this kinda thing happens.

[sleek cipher]

I missed so much

[cloud ibex]

even before the rewrite they were gonna rename the sword line

[pliant ruin]

I mean tbf he dosent need to only use the sword

[wanton pendant]

Yharim Gun 1-5.

[cloud ibex]

as mentioned, getting the main antagonist's weapon post plantera is Weird

[pliant ruin]

Like hes mostly a close-quarters warrior but that dosent mean he cant also use ranged attacks and/or magic

[sleek cipher]

Yharims Photoviscerator

[gray flame]

I wonder if he’s gonna have a player sized hit box like Lunatic Cultist.

[dusk laurel]

def not

[pliant ruin]

Probably something like that

[woeful hatch]

Fun fact, in suuuuper old lore Yharim was a mage

And even just on old lore (as opposed to super old) he was still good enough of a mage to be the one which creates cryogen instead of calamitas

[dusk laurel]

hes slightly larger

[wanton pendant]

Yharim's really tall.

[pliant ruin]

I don't see why he wouldn't except for being like

a little bigger yeah

[sleek cipher]

I think no, prob like Scal brothers

[woeful hatch]

He's 9 foot tall

[pliant ruin]

Scal brothers are way too big i think

[compact sun]

Imma ask a question here myself actually… does the dragon skeleton in the Crimson biome’s surface background hold any lore significance to Calamity? And if so, whose skeleton is it?

[wanton pendant]

And in the old lore, he couldn't do magic but could still do that.

[pliant ruin]

not that we know of

[wanton pendant]

It might be used to worship God of War, maybe.

[pliant ruin]

yeah i can see that

[glacial rampart]

zeus !!! your son lives again !!!!!

[pliant ruin]

old lore yharim kinda just felt like he could do Everything tbh he was crazy

[split mortar]

Perfs (god of war corpse) is gonna be draconic looking iirc so maybe crimson creates stuff like that

[pliant ruin]

outmagics the strongest mage. mind controls calamitas. freezes permafrost

[cloud ibex]

the brothers are about as big as draedon's drone i think

[wanton pendant]

Calamitas' brothers are obviously not looking like how they did before they died.
At least, I don't think Cataclysm is Ghost Rider.

[cloud ibex]

and draedon's drone is fucking gigantic

[dusk laurel]

hydra

[sleek cipher]

Wait, when Yharims drops get added, will Shadowspec weapons get buffed?

[compact sun]

“No Kratos. The r i m . He comes.”

[wanton pendant]

Sí.

[pliant ruin]

in theory i guess maybe

theyre supposed to be postgame content so

would come after the yhar

[woeful hatch]

Well probably yeah. Moved to post Yharim of course

[pliant ruin]

yeah probably then

[sleek cipher]

Svantechnical is the strongest weapon in game rn

[dusk laurel]

why does my brain want me to think redesigned hivemind is a grub

[sleek cipher]

Imagine it getting buffed 💀

[dusk laurel]

🥹

[pliant ruin]

im a grub and i live in the soil

hive mind redesign probably gonna be trippy asf from what weve seen

[dusk laurel]

hope so

[light moth]

We don’t?

[dusk laurel]

scrapped

[pliant ruin]

not modern

[sleek cipher]

Wait there was a teaser?

[pliant ruin]

old art

[wanton pendant]

That's his ancient original design.

[glacial rampart]

this is hella old art

this is like

lihzard yharim

[wanton pendant]

He has a newer design but even that is being redone I hear.

[dusk laurel]

information not a teaser

[pliant ruin]

Technically a very small one but also just discussions in calspoiler

perfs leans into body horror, gore, etc

hive mind leans into psychological horror and abstract/surreal aesthethics

[woeful hatch]

(it's not even close to the strongest)

[sleek cipher]

Good

[sleek cipher]

Ok

[gray flame]

Ranger stay winning.

[gray flame]

Darn.

[light moth]

Whaaaaaat?

[wanton pendant]

Really old.

They took his talons.
Tragic.

[pliant ruin]

yeah thats like

one of the first ever yharim designs

[light moth]

😬 🔫

[dusk laurel]

body horror flesh hydra please descend from heaven into my calamity mod file

[sleek cipher]

He basically became a robot

[dusk laurel]

what?

[pliant ruin]

i have some gripes with yharim's current design so i can understand why theyre changing it

[gray flame]

Bro looks like a robotic Ganondorf.

[wanton pendant]

This is newer concept art.

[pliant ruin]

its not bad but i definitely have some

critiques

[wanton pendant]

And even then I believe this isn't the final.

[dusk laurel]

yeah dia is gonna do his own thing iirc

[sleek cipher]

Why is he short

[light moth]

I thought that his design was perfect

[wanton pendant]

He is eight feet tall.

[dusk laurel]

so lilac's art is sort of outdated

[gray flame]

Looks even more like a robotic Ganondorf.

[wanton pendant]

But he is built like a fridge.

[pliant ruin]

i think the cape and the face r my biggest problems

I really like the armor plating though

I appreciate how it looks like armor and not like a robot suit

[wanton pendant]

Yharim spectrum is Ganondorf to Darth Vader, don't know what to tell you.

[woeful hatch]

He's not short he's just a damn wall of muscle and metal

[cloud ibex]

god i can't fucking wait for the perfs and hive mind redesigns this shit is like exactly my favorite type of character design

[sleek cipher]

Dam tbh he lost a bit of aura, just a bit

[wanton pendant]

Does anyone have the height comparison for Yharim?

[gray flame]

Then I suppose it’s good that my terrarian is meant to look like Link.

[pliant ruin]

i cant wait for hive mind redesign so i can fullfill my destiny as a dogma hater and murk dogma

bitch ass dogma

[sleek cipher]

Huh?

[cloud ibex]

i fucking love characters who look weird and freaky and surreal as hell ‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️

[gray flame]

Is the redesign changing the boss battle? Cause current hivemind is my favorite fight at the moment.

[dusk laurel]

yes

[pliant ruin]

yeah

all of the fights are being changed

basically

[woeful hatch]

Psychological horror? Interesting. Will be cool to see how they handle it in a boss.

[wanton pendant]

Hive Mind is very likely to switch with Dragonfolly.
Same with Perforators.

[pliant ruin]

you can throw everything u know abt current fights out of the window rly

N yeah

[cloud ibex]

did you know that this is the reason the crusades happened

[pliant ruin]

evil2 moving to post ml

[cloud ibex]

this fucker right here is why half the planet died

[pliant ruin]

yeah def

[woeful hatch]

Well, indirectly

[pliant ruin]

when i pull up to fight evil2 and i get the fucking

[wanton pendant]

A couple fights will be similar, but made into modern, high quality fights.
But most are getting thrown out in favour of actual game design.

[sleek cipher]

Ok then you'll like this

[woeful hatch]

He was the (I believe) leader of the group with the genius plan to try and make someone ascend with the auric soul of yharon

[wanton pendant]

Yeah, that was Dogma.

[cloud ibex]

hell yeah ‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️

[pliant ruin]

this will be hive mind in 3 days

[wanton pendant]

Get that Nameless Fraud out of my lore channel.

[gray flame]

The Yharon clone is gonna be prehardmode? Man Draedon really did a poor job cloning.

[wanton pendant]

Not a clone.

[pliant ruin]

dragonfolly isnt a clone

hasnt been for years now

[wanton pendant]

The actual clone maybe.

[dusk laurel]

its not been a yharon clone in 3 years...

[woeful hatch]

Perforators hive concept art leak trust me

(TW body horror I guess)

[pliant ruin]

and then yeah lmao calclone who IS a clone might actually be pre hardmode

switched with slime god

[dusk laurel]

perforators is the flesh hydra

(yes im not lying thats the plan)

[cloud ibex]

midra head brimmy,,,,

[pliant ruin]

add some freaky draconic heads to that and youre golden truly

[light moth]

Even Cryogen, Ceaseless Void and Goliath?

[wanton pendant]

Because a dragon can symbolise war, I read that book.

[pliant ruin]

yeah

[cloud ibex]

midra head brimmy save me,,,,,,,,,,

[icy veldt]

Yeah, it's the other way around. Gods and dragons are white and black good and evil

[cloud ibex]

fromsoft the goat as always

[woeful hatch]

.....ok that'd be peak

[pliant ruin]

literally every boss currently in the mod

theyre generally not very well made

because fabsol was the only one allowed to work on them

[wanton pendant]

(Sans Supreme Brothers.)

[glacial rampart]

wdym are you saying you dont like purple brain and worms

[pliant ruin]

supreme brothers never miss thank you xyk

shoutout to crabulon

[gray flame]

And sense Fabsol was taken out back and eliminated…

[pliant ruin]

did you guys see my crabulon rant the other day

[wanton pendant]

Now you get it.

[pliant ruin]

msot fabsolian boss of all time

[woeful hatch]

No

[cloud ibex]

shoutout to dragonfolly the mothron clone

[wanton pendant]

I did.

[light moth]

Wait, what about Providence?
Not taking nighttime into account, I know this is not lore accurate

[pliant ruin]

Hold on let me link it

[light moth]

She is great

[pliant ruin]

It's genuinely baffling to think about

[sleek cipher]

Gotta draw Hive mind fan design..

[cloud ibex]

prov is one of the outliers yes

[dusk laurel]

providence wont be reworked but she will still get changes

[wanton pendant]

Blue Providence will have a real way to fight that's lore accurate and not she doesn't like the moon.