suggestions-discussion

[cobalt rose]

/satanlaugh
yeah no its definitely not serious

[dire parcel]

i was serious

[keen zealot]

idk, I've seen serious suggs do that kinda shit^

[dire parcel]

make the shopkeepers function like skyrim

a daily stock of money and items

[keen zealot]

you should write all this in the suggestion itself

because what people will see when they vote on it in a day will be just the header with the marker that makes it look like a joke

[dire parcel]

even the joker was serious in batman

[muted osprey]

you aren't the Joker but you're definitely a clown

[dire parcel]

i dont feel like writing a paragraph , i deleted it

[muted osprey]

then why did you suggest it in the first place

[dire parcel]

didnt realize the suggestion channel was so badly regulated a very simple and STRAIGHT to the point suggestion cant be posted

[muted osprey]

it's straight to the point but you literally provided no reasons as to why they should add it

you ever heard of the PEEL format

[dire parcel]

its not a secret the devs hate fun and make the game harder , that was a literal gold suggestion in line with that

[muted osprey]

wow ok

[hot zephyr]

[dire parcel]

[muted osprey]

hurdur why can't I just post a stupid suggestion with no reasons and get everyone to agree with me instantly

🤓

[dire parcel]

lol your invested into this way more than I am , whatever helps you sleep at night bud

[muted osprey]

it must be the fault of the devs

[muted osprey]

you're the one who malded that the devs hate fun and won't add your feature not me

[muted osprey]

this was also a shitty analogy

you just sound like a redditor

[dire parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/steve-carell-wow-yay-omg-really-gif-15731645

[keen zealot]

funny gif
however
if you want your suggestion to be taken seriously, gonna have to provide evidence my friend

[muted osprey]

p much yeah

[keen zealot]

not only why it's a good idea but why Calamity in particular should do it

because this sounds like something that could (and should) be its own mod instead

[dire parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/for-those-reasons-im-out-shark-tank-mark-cuban-gif-16319251

https://tenor.com/view/peace-ghost-gif-4978918

[keen zealot]

ok, buh-bye

[half sage]

[fossil bronze]

"storm driver"?

also, this isn't the place to report bugs

[gray nebula]

Copypasta in the tooltip lmao

but true

but no one reads npc dialogue ever unless its in unique circumstances

[jovial spire]

i once again don't exist on many layers

beign a woman on the itnernet

reading npc dialogue

preferign true melee

😔

i'm discriminated against so much

[hot zephyr]

+80 maximum stealth
the end

[warped tide]

the good ending

[sharp garnet]

i would 100% read npc dialogue to know what certain things do

but i mostly just read it for fun

[hot zephyr]

bandit is too late in progression

you've already played rogue for almost the entirely of phm

[warped tide]

my first thought was bandit but

you need platnium for bandit

and unless you get an early blood moon

[jovial spire]

platnium is the easy part

skeeltron also needs to be dead

[warped tide]

Wait shes also Post Skeletron

[sharp garnet]

rev eoc gives you like 50 gold

[jovial spire]

and that's the 3rd to last pre-HM boss

[warped tide]

hm

No one cares about the Guide too

[hot zephyr]

the best way to handle this would just to split the long tooltip in-between armor and weapons

[warped tide]

or

[hot zephyr]

armor says "+80" stealth
weapons say "Attacking at full Rogue stealth performs a Stealth Strike"

[warped tide]

hear me out

[warped tide]

have a draedon’s log style note in the starter bag that explains stealth!

[warped tide]

plus this

aka over elaborate bullshit

that I would SO write for yall if you want

[sharp garnet]

what if it said "Moving or not moving hides you over time, letting you perform a Stealth Strike after it reaches full up to a maximum of [num]" for the armor

[frosty blaze]

why

[gray nebula]

fr you litterally don't

Proving my point wrong is not allowed in this server and like fr fr like, truly, barely anyone does it especially not if theyre gonna be doing a second playhthrough and especially because terraria npc dialogue sucks and its just random

[warped tide]

you know what has layers

celestial onion

[gray nebula]

I really wanna have npcs with proper dialogue but,, not for now. at least

[frosty blaze]

is moon lord a celestial ogre

[warped tide]

no hes probably the rotting corpse of a giant fucking alien being controled by cthuhlu’s servant eyeballs

[sharp garnet]

he just makes you cry

[warped tide]

with a pulsating core

that uh

is the only thing keeping it alive

not canon just me observing the boss, that thing isnt an elder god

[keen zealot]

could have the starter bag drop a lore-like item that explains rogue stealth, then have the tooltips on all the items be nice and short

[sharp garnet]

maybe like the stat sheet from fargo's

[warped tide]

yeah i said something like that lol

[keen zealot]

and if people trashing the starter bag is :somehow: an issue then make it spawn directly in the player's inventory upon character creation

[sharp garnet]

doesnt it already spawn directly

[warped tide]

aaaand no

[keen zealot]

starter bag does, the thing I'm talking about doesn't yet exist so therefore it can't

[half sage]

someone who would trash the starter bag would probably just end up trashing said item too

[keen zealot]

fair point

[grim tusk]

Ok this guidebook thing could be expanded up

I think I have some ideas like it also explaining the summoner nerf, true melee changes and point blank shots

And could be fitted inside the starter bag

And later purchased from npcs if you lost it (prob merchant)

[sharp garnet]

maybe guide can give it back with the help button or something

[grim tusk]

Actually yea guide fucking exists lol

[sharp garnet]

i mean he is the guide

[grim tusk]

Guide explains how to use [class]

[sharp garnet]

officially better than 1% of the npcs

(painter)

[if hes not used for building]

<also applies to tax collector tbh>

[grim tusk]

Npcs wanting

[hot zephyr]

@slender sluice whips

[sharp garnet]

the ability of being able to use tools while not getting summon damage reduced would be so

wonder if that exists already tho

[hot zephyr]

the summon nerf excludes tools

[sharp garnet]

thank god

[slender sluice]

Haven't played vanilla in so long I actually forgot whips

[hot zephyr]

the next version of Cal will be on 1.4, and as such will include whips

[gray nebula]

this is invalid

If the minion is distracted you don't care about the minion's damage

And you can still use the other weapon for self defense

[slender sluice]

Yeah, i'm kind of dumb
Sorry

[gray nebula]

Suggesting to nerf non-summoner weapons would make this specific case worse due to making the weapon deal less damage 😭

[fossil finch]

Just add active summon weapon (whi

Problem fixed

[slender sluice]

Yeah, in retrospect it doesn't make sense
Probably a way to rebalance the class is make Whips a bit larger, or something like that

[fossil finch]

that'd suck just make whips deal less damage and in turn have better support benefits (tag damages and buffs and whatever

[slender sluice]

There's a few of those iirc, but don't know if there's good ones on post-moon lord

[slender sluice]

So the same thing they do in 1.4, but weaker

[fossil finch]

virid vanguard should be enough for post ml enemies

[fossil finch]

but in turn have better support benefits***********

[slender sluice]

Yeah, still, being able to apply the buff-debuff in a wider area of effect while the whips do less damage would actually be a decent buff

[fossil finch]

in any case increasing their range wouldn't be too bad if they dealt less damage now that i think about it

but risk factor or whatever

Idk i don't design or balance games

[fossil finch]

This anyway

and post scal you have both exhumed summons and her drops

Also void concentration staff (cv drop)

[hot zephyr]

some of my proposed changes to whips nerfs damage, and buffs their scaling on the summoned projectiles

[fossil finch]

Ian fully knowing this is exactly what they want to do

[slender sluice]

Perfect

[hot zephyr]

cool whip projectile should be a % of the whip damage

idk what the fuck red was on

[fossil finch]

Make cooler whips too or whatever

[hot zephyr]

L + it doesn't scale + weird armor penetration

meanwhile firecracker is W + overpowered scaling + 2.75x damage on every minion up to scal

[fossil finch]

astral whip (rework that one aureus drop into this) it summons astral projections temporarily

[hot zephyr]

cosmic discharge rework

🧠

[fossil finch]

true

Except it summons fucking dog

[hot zephyr]

@vocal grotto MECHWORM 2

[sharp garnet]

crescent moon turns into a whip that summons crescent moons 😱 😱

[fossil finch]

lo

[hot zephyr]

KILL THIS USER

[fossil finch]

Floodtide turns into an active summoner weapon that floods your tides

[hot zephyr]

Evil Smasher smashes your evil

[sharp garnet]

icebreaker breaks your ice

[fossil finch]

Temporal Floe Sword fucking dies

[sharp garnet]

i laughed at that my humor is fucking dead

[grim tusk]

@slender helm no, and at least try to make a sugg right

[small timber]

the summoner nerf is literally to target multiclass so ya the idea dont really work

it is not like the summoner nerf do anything when you are NOT multiclassing

[warped tide]

Unless a certain armor set makes multiclassing easier due to the Set bonus

then I wouldnt do it

period

[small timber]

(also did bot break again, since no 🗜️ emote)

[ruby plover]

at least its not voting for suggestions anymore lol

[river glen]

hmmmm

[hollow shell]

@slender helm Hello you need to provide reasoning with your suggestion

Explain the reason why you think the implementation of your suggestion would be a good idea

[slender helm]

I just enjoy playing summoner while using other weapons, it’s my preferred way of playing. I just thought it would be nice if the nerf could be optional

[small timber]

the summoner nerf is literally to prevent that

so the idea do not really work

it is like saying dimensional soul artifact increase damage taken should be optional, but that is literally the point of the accessory: higher damage but also higher damage taken

so if anything it is either remove summoner nerf or don't, making it optional is super counterintuitive

[ruby plover]

the main problem is it's really hard to balance summoner without the summoner penalty, since in theory you would have to balance all summons with every single weapon on tier

[worthy orchid]

the penalty exists to tell you to focus on summoner only or get a big damage decrease and like what xpcqe said, making the nerf optional is counterintuitive

if you wanna mix summons with other classes, there's vanilla and other mods that dont have said penalty

[small timber]

ya sentry makes a lot more sense, though I don't know how they do it

unless sentry and summon damage is coded differently

[cobalt pewter]

I think both deal summon damage, but the actual "entities" should be able to be identified as either a summon or sentry

don't quote me

[west jackal]

@novel belfry doesn’t the sulphur seas already change into an ocean biome

I could’ve sworn that it already works like that

[ruby plover]

no, it doesnt

it only is an ocean biome where it normally would be, if the sulphurous sea wasnt there

the ocean biome rarely is as wide as the sulphurous sea

[stable musk]

summoner nerf is balanced

i tried summoner and it was great

and you can just right click or use classless weapon if minion is distracted

but sugg worth attention

BUT having 50% of other class damage is just broken. You gain massive damage increase using other class weapon.

Having only 10% of damage would do the thing

however this feature will buff summoner because you will get 100% of summon damage all the time, making other class weapon not a penalty but buff

and also holding summon damage gives 10% boost for it's damage

holding classless/no weapon will not give or take any summon damage

summon penalty on sentries during ooa event looks like an oversight

[robust lagoon]

That's just a terraria thing in general, fly too high above any biome and you get forest.

It might be something with the engine or how biomes work, in which case it might be impossible to change

[hollow shell]

@robust lagoon What if you want to parry

while you have a beam charged

The beam doesn't help you avoid damage

Parry does

[robust lagoon]

Similar to the true biome blade, holding down right click and a single quick right click can have different functionality

[unique vector]

que

[hollow shell]

Is that not equally complex as to holding a key?

[small timber]

it will also create a new problem that your beam come out very late

[unique vector]

you force a delay yes

[small timber]

especially later line where it become a short gsd for damage (havent use it much, if I remember correctly)

[unique vector]

what you’re saying is u want it to work more like a fighter game combo mechanic

which i dont think is much better than what it is rn but

[robust lagoon]

It doesn't require the extra key press on the wasd which can mess up movement

[hollow shell]

What movement are you doing which you're holding Up for?
Do you use ropes often?

[golden tulip]

weapons feel boring because all you need to do is hold left click

weapons are too complicated because i cant just hold left click to use the weapon to the fullest

[robust lagoon]

It's not that up is used often, but that up is on the wasd and by having to hold a key on wasd while using the rest of the wasd you may end up with spaghetti fingers, especially if you use the same finger for up and the other keys

[robust lagoon]

?

[hollow shell]

byeah Nutella this isn't a too-many-functions complaint

Wrong counterargument.

[hollow shell]

🤷‍♀️

I suppose

[robust lagoon]

I do like the Ark mechanics a lot actually, it's cool asf

I just spaghetti finger every time I try to use it properly

[golden tulip]

i cant read for longer than 3 seconds

i apoligize

[small timber]

I think it will likely just take time to get used to it, games like fps people hold w and ad together all the time, just that terraria too used to only holding a or d

since w is practically useless except rope

[golden tulip]

gravitation potion

which you never really use past prehm lol

[unique vector]

you could always rebind it to a different key

esp if u dont use stuff like ropes a lot

[sharp garnet]

fr

[gray nebula]

yea w was used there because its kinda useless as a key yet easily accessible in code and on the keyboard

also making it require a charge up would be insanely annoying to code

[swift sinew]

I think they are remodelling summoner weapons to have more damage options I believe, which will be epic

[deft yew]

alright draft time

Remove the homing from Aquatic Scourge's sand blasts at low health

As of 1.5.1, Death mode makes some new changes to AS, namely it's twice as long and it creates expanding circles of clouds during its spin attack. I like all of these changes but one.
When below ~25% health, AS's sand blasts gain homing capabilities. This might have been okay if not for the fact they are occasionally fired in massive circles. One can scarcely ever find a good chance to weave through them with how close together they are, AS rapidly approaching, and the already massive amounts of venom clouds and homing teeth present at once.
This change detracts immensely from an otherwise pretty fun fight and is entirely unnecessary since the teeth already home as well.

[small timber]

that move is not even that threatening, worst case scenerio save adrenaline to burst AS at low hp

I never feel that move is really that oppressive, the only time this is a significant problem will be if the player completely neglect movement accessory

especially that you say "Death Mode" instead of "Malice Mode"

and even for Death Mode, there are many other bosses that are way worse (or you can say harder), like destroyer

[deft yew]

bosses like destroyer may just need a rework entirely

this one AS change could get reverted in a snap and the fight would be fun again

[small timber]

what accessory are you using when fighting AS?

because the general expectation of accessory (with 6 slot), is 2 damage, 2 defense and 2 movement, considering the general lack of defense accessory at that stage even 1 defense 3 movement

[deft yew]

soc, cenx wings, frostspark, warrior emblem, amalgamated brain and bloody scarf

(yes i should probably be using movement but there aren't really any useful options i can think of)

[small timber]

if you want a magic solution just substitute the least used accessory with white balloon

[deft yew]

also statigel armor and brimstone sword

[small timber]

even if you don't want to do it, something like vital jelly, grand jelatin or aero stone all are very useful, just try to slot in some of those (like 1/2) then see if the boss is still a problem, the new death mode requires considerably more movement now than before

[deft yew]

still can we address how redundant it is to make them home

[small timber]

if your complain is for revengeance mode I will not really say anything, but since it is death mode the player is expected to have some degree of experience/game knowledge

[deft yew]

the teeth already exist

[small timber]

the consideration is just that it happen at very low hp only (25%), otherwise ya I can see it being a complain, but 25% is near death

[golden tulip]

dude destroyer already got reworked like twice

[deft yew]

exactly

[golden tulip]

[tardy smelt]

how about a third time

[golden tulip]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/800781171138494544/960474816765362186/biteof87-1.gif

[golden shoal]

maybe the summoner alt item damage nerf could be revisited when whips get added?

i think the addition of whips is a really good opportunity to revisit multiclass summoner

also it sounds like it should sort of internally self balance (though minions at every tier are probably gonna need nerfs lol)

one concern is the people who prefer minion only summoner would kinda get the short end of the stick...

maybe more aurus bomber type items as a sort of... whip alternative?

that sounds like balancing hell though

i'm really excited to see how things shake out though

[golden shoal]

because using another classes weapon and using a whip should be roughly (in practice using whips should probably be better since you don't want to incentivize ignoring summoner while playing summoner lol) as viable

ig the main concern is using summoner as the side class and reaping the rewards of that

cause then the whole class based balancing kinda falls out of whack

ooo here's an idea: maybe there could be a penalty for summon damage when not wearing a summoner (or all class) armor set

if anyone's interested in talking abt this ping me, for now i'll stop talking to myself lol

[fossil finch]

3rd point doesn't happen because slot stacking from nucleogenesis downgrades was removed so you're literally better with anything else

[golden shoal]

oh it was???

when?

[fossil finch]

First point is

[golden shoal]

welp i really need to edit my sugg then XD

actually i need context first

what do ppl use instead now?

[fossil finch]

No????
Never has stn been related to summoner at all
If anything peolle associate it with ranger because of minishark

Literally everything else

If you're that invested in dmg you use the vanilla summon damage accs

[golden shoal]

have you ever played vanilla summoner?

[fossil finch]

yes like 10 times

[golden shoal]

are we just on polar oposite sides of the summoner internet lol

[hollow shell]

I personally have only ever heard of armor pen + summoner being a thing once

that being with Calamity's belladonna staff

[distant gyro]

belladonna summoner is a thing but that is not really convincing

[fossil finch]

Second point is also not true at all the beast tamer theming is solely 1.4 based

[distant gyro]

and the thematics is ruined as soon as shark tooth necklace actually drops from dripplers or something

[golden shoal]

eh ig but the item itself is still themed that way

also somn else drops it in calam i forget what tho

it's from the sunken sea but i forget which enemy

what do y'all think should be done with the tooth necklace line cause it's rly bad rnow

[hollow shell]

eh I can see it fitting even with traditional summoner stuff

a tooth necklace and the whole
tiki aesthetic

[golden shoal]

right

and like

you literally summon monsters n the like

i mean not all of it is monsters

but a good percentage is

[distant gyro]

the biggest problem i find with making armor penetration exclusively summoner is that armor penetration is a rare stat that is basically the identity of the line

[golden shoal]

also having a necklace that's a trophy fits the leading aesthetic

[warped tide]

I have yet to see a weapon ignore armor

[distant gyro]

that and sharpening station are like the only main sources

[warped tide]

like completely

[golden shoal]

hm yeah but when else is the pen used? p90 or somn?

[cobalt heath]

normalise tldr:s on long sugs

[warped tide]

it always does 57 damage and

[fossil finch]

yeah you summon monsters through the use of magic it's not beast tamer based at all
Commander maybe but the game doesn't do much to theme summoner considering there's a wide variety of 0 summons you can actually command to do things

[warped tide]

you cant stop it

[distant gyro]

p90, gsoj, lgb, plague keeper

[golden shoal]

in 1.4 the aesthetic rly changed a lot

i think it'd fit the port

and help smooth the transition

[distant gyro]

i think swarmer as well

[golden shoal]

hm interesting

[warped tide]

Terraria Summoner is more of a Commander yeah

[golden shoal]

yeah i think trophy necklace fits that aesthetic right?

[cobalt heath]

altix would a good addition to the sugg doc to be added that good practise is to include a tldr on long sugs

[fossil finch]

they just added whips really, aesthetic still the same for the wide variety of the game
You're not even whipping YOUR summons
Swarmer is dead and merkalto killed it

[hollow shell]

Calamity's arsenal lab weapons used to (might still do?)

[distant gyro]

yeah i guess

[fossil finch]

They don't

[hollow shell]

or well uhh partial armor pen at least

[fossil finch]

But there is weapons that ignore armor

[distant gyro]

tyranny's end whole gimmick

[fossil finch]

Shotout to scissors and phaseblades

[hollow shell]

Complete armor penetration would be horrifically unbalanced

[golden shoal]

ok but whips is a p big change

[warped tide]

Pulse Pistol does like 50 per hit on aquatic scourge if that helps

[hollow shell]

It doesn't

[distant gyro]

and also true meme stuffs i guess

[cobalt pewter]

1. Shark tooth necklace in vanilla has always been deeply associated with summoner class, due to armor pen bonuses buffing summoner disproportionately because of how minions work (dealing lots of instances of low damage numbers)

this is a very rare case, most summons that fit the description are too dumb AI-wise to utilize armor pen (exceptions can probably be Belladonna since it practically sticks to enemies and hits anything at 30 hits per frame (exaggerated))

[warped tide]

well shit

[golden shoal]

i don't think armor pen as a whole should be changed to be summoner focused, just the accessory line

[fossil finch]

also read [in vanilla]
I swear to god belladonna is the only case ever of this and it is not vanilla

[fossil finch]

This accessory line is literally the sole source of armor pen in the game

[distant gyro]

that would just either make it terribly op for summoner i think

[cobalt pewter]

2. Summoner has always had a beast tamer/commander theme and I think these items would work well with this aesthetic.
   I can see some items here, but not enough to ever form this theme

[golden shoal]

mounted scanner deapsea igneous axes (kinda) idk i can't think of somn that doesn't fit that description

[distant gyro]

if it is still viable for other classes and granting summoner stats simultaneously

[fossil finch]

These are not vanilla!

[distant gyro]

if it is not viable for other classes, then you just looped back to summoner exclusivity

[golden shoal]

yeah but they mentioned belladona and were talking calamity summons so i was too

[fossil finch]

yeah and your sugg says [in vanilla]

[cobalt pewter]

12am brain

so yeah, practically nothing in vanilla (Blade Staff already ignores a fuckton of defense for its own good)

[warped tide]

Me waiting for Mage to have another endgame accessory line

[golden shoal]

true but blade still benefits from it hugely

[fossil finch]

feed deadass in the other side of the world

[golden shoal]

more than any other minion in the game

[golden shoal]

true true

all of the vannila mage items are eaten by ethereal talisman ;-;

[warped tide]

Mana Polarizer + Chaos Stone???

Hell

All of the Ancient relics

[cobalt pewter]

vanilla mage items

[fossil finch]

summoner alongside rogue has 2 dedicated lategame accs

[warped tide]

Melee has like

20 different options accessory wise

and Ranger has like

everything it needs

Mage has

[fossil finch]

Ranger realistically has only 2

[warped tide]

Tailsmen

[fossil finch]

Melee has side off dedicateds like warbanner but it also only gets one

[unborn siren]

also about the suggestion, you only need to get one of ingredients like Nuclear rod or First shadowflame because the downgrades of nucleogenesis minion slots don't stack

[golden shoal]

eh ig but the stones just don't have the same punch

[golden shoal]

wait what's the second one- jeez i liver under a rock

[unborn siren]

(eg having both statis curse and blessing gives 3 minion slots instead of 5)
but vanilla downgrades are an exception, so having Statis curse and Papyrus scarab does give 4

[warped tide]

Hold On

[distant gyro]

yeah phantomic artifact existstm i guess

[golden shoal]

i have since learned this

[golden shoal]

oh right that thing

hmmmmmm

[distant gyro]

and profaned soul

[golden shoal]

ok that tier is literally right next to reaper

oh and profaned soul... and godly soul artifact 🤔

[fossil finch]

Hote also exists but it probably sucks

[unborn siren]

too bad it's just affliction but with 3 wasted buff slots

and no max hp

[golden shoal]

yah looks like they killed it

[golden shoal]

then i rescind my comment =P

[unborn siren]

it's good against ML, Profaned simp rocks, and Provi

[warped tide]

Wait so

[fossil finch]

Then it's good

[unborn siren]

but after that it gets replaced with Profaned soul artifact

[golden shoal]

then you could switch it out with reaper if this were added

[golden shoal]

snaps

[golden shoal]

onion accessory?

[unborn siren]

you usually would put Absorber in the accessory slot you get from onion

[warped tide]

Theres the
Areo Stone, Bloom Stone, Chaos Stone, Rose Stone, and Cryo Stone

[golden shoal]

eh more offensive summoners might not wanna

[unborn siren]

due to not having the free space to use it before (unless you have wing slot)

[fossil finch]

none of this are useful for a summoner by that point charley

(Rose stone is also a hote component

[golden shoal]

are the stones any good rnow? i've always passed them up

[fossil finch]

Chaos and Cryo got reworked

Aereo is still jump god material and bloom stone still sucks big balls

[warped tide]

Which come from Desert Scourge, Plantera, Cryogen, Brimstone Elemental, and Calamitas Clone respectively

[warped tide]

Mana Burn my beloved

[fossil finch]

Rose stone isn't counted in this

It's a hote material

[unborn siren]

Aero is nice for mobility, Chaos is decent with high mana consumption weapons, but Cryo and Bloom are just meh

[fossil finch]

Shake my head my head

Cryo is fine you're just boring

[golden shoal]

XD poor bloom stone...

[warped tide]

Bloom Stone gives regen i guess

[golden shoal]

y'all agree that reaper tooth is trash right now right?

and has sand shark ever been used.... by anyone....

ever....

i still think reworking them to be summoner makes sense

[distant gyro]

shark tooth necklace line and armor pen in general has its own niche being to abuse scenarios where armor pen is greatly beneficial

[austere cargo]

Would Reaper Tooth Necklace be more usable if it also reduced damage reduction?

[golden shoal]

i heard ppl say swarmer and such

[distant gyro]

as a part of that idea it should be available to as much weapons as possible

if shark tooth necklace is summoner then it's not going to be based on armor pen

[golden shoal]

i think it could be a lil armor pen based for stuff like cali lament

or ethereal subjugator

[unborn siren]

sand shark and shark tooth are both good

[golden shoal]

really?

[unborn siren]

sand shark is great with weapons like Blossom flux

[golden shoal]

huh

[unborn siren]

or fast firing weapons with terra bullets

so it's pretty much a ranger accessory rn

[golden shoal]

that makes sense actually

calamity has a lot of range weapons that split like 80 times

[unborn siren]

due to it being the only class with the weapons that go well with it

[distant gyro]

it is just good for anything that projectile spams or the like

[golden shoal]

ig the armor pen summoner thing is rly more of a vannila thing 🤔

[unborn siren]

then RTN is just trash

[golden shoal]

mby keep sand shark classless and make reaper tooth summoner?

[distant gyro]

sstn even gets used for pml if a weapon is projectile spammy enough https://youtu.be/e9FQNBK5Zjs

[unborn siren]

weapons have too high base damage to make a flat +7.5 useful

so Destroyer emblem is generally better

and the classes that don't get the full benifit of destroyer emblem have better options as well

[golden shoal]

wow

sorry was typing somn then watched that

[hardy dock]

I don’t think my hatred for the knockback in the gauntlet line is entirely healthy

[golden shoal]

XD

i also hate that feature

it's a downside 5% of the time an upside 0% of the time and does exactly nothing 95% of the time

[austere cargo]

ok, idea: reaper tooth necklace increases crit rate and allows summons to crit

[unborn siren]

honestly they might want to respec the RTN into a bit of a destroyer emblem type thing

[golden shoal]

idk summoner crit seems like coding hell from what i've seen

[unborn siren]

where Eye of golem is added to the recipe and it becomes 10% damage, 8% crit, and 15 armor pen

[golden shoal]

i've never seen a mod make it work without it being a flat crit rate

[austere cargo]

oh. well nevermind then

[golden shoal]

i think it's somn to do with minions just like not being able to read player crit or somn but i cld be wrong

[unborn siren]

that would actually make it good, as it's a direct upgrade to it's competition

[golden shoal]

am probably wrong

i know nothing abt coding lol

[golden shoal]

i don't like the aesthetics of adding golem eye to the recipe

[distant gyro]

increasing knockback doesn't seem like a big issue until you take into account that it's melee

[golden shoal]

mby just add the crit cause reaper teeth = magicy crit thing?

[golden shoal]

right!?

like

why

[unborn siren]

and it wouldn't be too unbalanced I think, the one weapon it synergyses well with (Light's gods brilliance) is trash to begin with so making RTN better might make it useful

[austere cargo]

rather than eye of golem part of recipe, destroyer emblem?

[distant gyro]

and if melee is actually melee and not 2 screens of range, having melee increase knockback is absolutely a detriment

[golden shoal]

avenger emblem is already in sstn

[austere cargo]

oh

[hardy dock]

Yeah

[austere cargo]

forgot that

[golden shoal]

my question is do we really need classless reaper

[hardy dock]

Like, it baffles me that relogic thought their close range class would want their enemies further away

[golden shoal]

i feel like there are enough accessories rnow that fill that niche, offense and defense

[distant gyro]

imagine a universe where scal takes knockback from murasama so that you actually hit her out of the weapon's range constantly

[golden shoal]

mhm same

[golden shoal]

like the point of the increased knockback is to make it so enemies can't walk through your sword and hit you

but in hm where you get the item

[austere cargo]

well, you want some knockback, but there's a limit

[golden shoal]

that doesn't really happen anymore

[golden shoal]

right and that limity is usually already crossed by the base kb (except stuff like phasesaber)

[hardy dock]

If feral claws and titan Glove switched places in progression it MIGHT be useful

[distant gyro]

i think titan glove in vanilla does something ok

[golden shoal]

noooo my baby D=

[golden shoal]

it does

[distant gyro]

that being increase sword size

[golden shoal]

mhm power glove feels like an actual upgrade now

it's nice

[hardy dock]

Can’t wait for cal 1.4

[golden shoal]

can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not lol

i unironically cannot wait to see what happens with summoner

[hardy dock]

Me neither

[austere cargo]

there's the suggestion about the summoner damage penalty, but 1.4 fixes that anyways with whips

[golden shoal]

i just really hope they lean into the additions rather than shy away from em

[warped tide]

Draft:

Ancient Relic Combo Item?
The Relic Stones are scattered all over the game, ranging from Desert Scourge to CalClone/Plantera. They all grant special effects, Ranging from Mana Burn to Health Regen to Arial Mobility to an Ice Shield. Though they dont have any connection besides name and “One the Ancient Relics”. So what if that was given a meaning.
Introducing: (Insert Word) Stone, A combo item running between all of the ancient relics that grants all of the effects of them all. This would probably be locked till post LC due to the absurdity of the item, but the basics the stuff that makes it up. It could also work as a late game mage accessory generally
Proposed Effects:
Generate Ice/All-of-the-Relics Shield (Does Magic Damage instead of summon?)
Mana Sickness becomes Mana Burn
Increased Life Regen
Mana Burn time reduced and Life regen increased while standing still.
10% General Movement Increase
(If Rose Stone is included) Spawn (Rare/Ancient?) Brimstone Elemental to fight for you (Uses Current P3 Sprite???)

[golden shoal]

i think changing reaper tooth necklace to be summoner would make sense with the direction 1.4 takes summoner

[hardy dock]

1. Made Dragon Pow a summon weapon. Done ✅

[warped tide]

Any thoughts before I post it?

[golden shoal]

i-

[austere cargo]

also 1.4 style flails

love em

[golden shoal]

hmmmm i dk if i like em honestly

the spin isn't useful v bosses unless you're facetanking

[hardy dock]

Have there been any donator whips

[golden shoal]

so it just feels like all flails lost autoswing

[austere cargo]

there are enemies other than bosses

[golden shoal]

and besides in calam flails are flairion style

or solar eruption style

[golden shoal]

yeah but not really in calamity

in calamity your enemy killers are

spawns a fuck ton of homing projectiles

type weapons

with a lot of piece

[austere cargo]

eh, I still like them

[hardy dock]

The Brimstone enemies are kind of the only ones that don’t feel like a commitment to kill

[austere cargo]

there's room for both

[golden shoal]

and spinny flails don't fit the description unless they spawn projectiles on enemy hits and then it's those projectiles

[hardy dock]

All the other enemies have nigh miniboss amounts of health at times

[golden shoal]

yeah i agree

[austere cargo]

also should be fun to see what the devs come up with for post-moon lord spinny flails

[golden shoal]

but they already did that

[hardy dock]

Something tells me a lot of the mod won’t really be majorly reworked in 1.4, or at least most of the items will stay fairly similar

[golden shoal]

it was heart of the elements

and then they carved off the stone bit

and now rose stone is in a weird place

cause it's a relic but still for heart

[hardy dock]

What does rose stone do again

[warped tide]

what

the Heart of the Elements is

[gray nebula]

eh oh ahRose stone is litterally not,

[warped tide]

not an Ancient Relic

[gray nebula]

not a relic stone

[austere cargo]

well, 1.4 adds quite a bit of stuff, so some amount of rework is necessary

[gray nebula]

its a waifu item that goes in hote

[golden shoal]

yeah i know but it used all of them

[golden shoal]

it says it is doesn't it

[warped tide]

But the

[hardy dock]

Oh right that

[austere cargo]

and it would be...odd to have a type of weapon just vanish post-moon lord

[golden shoal]

on wiki it says so rnow

[warped tide]

Desc????

[gray nebula]

imagine caring about the descriptions

[warped tide]

Me

I do

[gray nebula]

it just didnt get changed when the elemental stones got separated from the waifu stones

[hardy dock]

Well ofc they’re probably gonna add whips

[gray nebula]

also i mean wow this function description is useless

[golden shoal]

yeah but thematically it matters

[gray nebula]

its just listing off all the functions from the individual stonesz

[golden shoal]

mby rose stone could be renamed

and then a stone combo item could be added

but like

eh

[hardy dock]

Call it the brim stone

[golden shoal]

mby not?

[austere cargo]

speaking of descriptions, some of the underwater/liquid buff item descriptions are currently incorrect

[hardy dock]

😎

[golden shoal]

there are so many classless defense accessories at that teir

aka absorber and only absorber

but like

if you want to use one

you use absorber

[warped tide]

Ill

[hardy dock]

🤨

[golden shoal]

or absorber and the new stone thing become direct competition

[warped tide]

redraft the preposed stats a bit because

[golden shoal]

and then it's like

why

[warped tide]

its doing something different

[unique vector]

i dont understand what you’re saying

[warped tide]

I also like

[hardy dock]

What’s wrong with two accessories competing, as long as one isn’t objectively better than the other

[unique vector]

this is also extremely close to SIS

so lets not do that

[warped tide]

have a mildly different idea

[warped tide]

SIS?

[golden shoal]

yeah that too

specific item....

[unique vector]

specific item sugg

[golden shoal]

s word

yeah suggestion

ty

[warped tide]

ah

[golden shoal]

lol

[unique vector]

“do X and Y and Z effects with A and B”

no bueno

[warped tide]

right

ok redraft time

[golden shoal]

it's a good idea to avoid doing too much of that

[unique vector]

no

disagree

[warped tide]

was afraid of that

[golden shoal]

2-3 competing items i think is fine but having 4 or more is like

[unique vector]

more accessory competition = more build variety

[austere cargo]

You want competing accessories to do noticeably different things

[unique vector]

when is that a bad thing

[hardy dock]

🤷‍♀️

[austere cargo]

and also be of comparable utility

[golden shoal]

true but if they fill too similar of roles then it's better to move one to a diff tier

[austere cargo]

if one is way better than the other

[unique vector]

not really

[golden shoal]

hm

[unique vector]

thats just called bloat

[austere cargo]

you just use that. if they're too similar, well, why have both?

[golden shoal]

mby not actually 🤔 i do love me some blade staff v sanguine staff action

[unique vector]

dont add more than 4 then lol

[golden shoal]

right yeah i'm talking abt avoiding bloat

[austere cargo]

e.g., in vanilla ninja gear competes with shield of cthulhu as a dash item

[golden shoal]

yeah exactly isn't a stone comb doing exactly that tho?

[austere cargo]

but they both bring different things to the table

[golden shoal]

i mean mby not cause ampule was completely killed ALL the way dead

so ig there's a slot there now

[golden shoal]

right yeye i like that

[hardy dock]

(Also one is early game and the other is lategame)

[golden shoal]

i don't like somn where it's more like............. hmm what's a good example... vannila swords

[austere cargo]

shield of cthulhu is also usable late game.

it's kind of absurdly overpowered for when you get it

[golden shoal]

they all suck (or are just a slightly worse version of a similar sword) except the ones that don't

[golden shoal]

tru tru

it's still balanced tho

not having a dash i.... shudders

i mean hooks

you can just use hooks ig

and that's why it's balanced =P

[golden shoal]

also yeah addendum i really like this and that's like half of why i think rtn shld be summoner

[austere cargo]

my experience in vanilla is that the shield of cthulhu basically gets a dedicated inventory slot, and is never removed from it

[golden shoal]

or rather i think it being competition for like 3 other items doesn't mean it shldn't be summoner

[hardy dock]

I honestly really disagree with that

[austere cargo]

Even Terraspark has competition in Amphibian Boots

[golden shoal]

i do like item competition just not of like
2 different items that are really grindy (absorber and stone thingy)

[hardy dock]

It’s a multiclass accessory and converting it isn’t super necessary

[golden shoal]

tru

[golden shoal]

so you'd rather just buff it?

[hardy dock]

It just takes away from one multiclass damage accessory

[golden shoal]

ig we do need those there is kind of a gap

i think the real reason i like the idea so much is because of the aesthetics

i really like the more monster tamer type deal side of summoner

[austere cargo]

btw, is nucleogenesis not supposed to stack with any of its components?

[hardy dock]

I mean yeah literally just buff the piercing a bit it doesn’t need to turn into some weird class accessory halfway into its class line

[golden shoal]

it doesn't apparently (news to me)

[hardy dock]

No it isn’t

[austere cargo]

because it actually does

[hardy dock]

It used to but not since 1.5

[austere cargo]

the necromantic scroll

[warped tide]

but

1000 minions

[hardy dock]

I mean that’s not a super big deal, in the late game that extra slot isn’t really worth it

Compared to having another late game accessory

[golden shoal]

hmmm ok true

yeah i think buffing it is better

[austere cargo]

i did find one use for it: with godly soul artifact it lets you make 4 birbs while having exactly 20 slots

[golden shoal]

i still think another non artifact summoner item would be nice tho

the summoner items are all really like... specific/complicated rnow

[austere cargo]

4 birbs was also not nearly as murderous as I'd hoped

[golden shoal]

minus nucleogenesis filling the role of elemental exo type accessory thingy

[golden shoal]

yeah don't you only really want the 2 from godly soul?

[austere cargo]

you don't really want to use godly soul at all

[golden shoal]

or that ig lol

[austere cargo]

I do think the summoner items not stacking is good. There's so much pressure on summoner accessory slots already

[golden shoal]

what does endgame summoner (not post scal, post scall summoner is it's own beast) look like rnow...

[small timber]

@golden shoal abit late since was checking previous convo to make sure this is not repeated, what is stopping you from using reaper tooth necklace (or shark tooth necklace line) as a summoner right now? that it need to be rebranded

because from what I see you are basically asking reaper tooth necklace to be rebranded into a second nucleogenesis-style accessory

[golden shoal]

nothing and i think that's one of it's best use cases but i think if it leaned into that more it'd be cool

[hardy dock]

What do you even mean

[golden shoal]

not nucleogenesis style just like- another summoner accessory

[austere cargo]

Nucleogenesis, Profane Soul, darksun ring

[hardy dock]

Same as the old one with one less accessory slot

[golden shoal]

i mean they'd be similar ig yeah but it's p hard not to do that

[small timber]

then it dont have to be summoner, you can just suggest to add another summoner accessory instead

if your concern is the lack of summoner accessory at post-DoG tier

[golden shoal]

but when i last played summoner i was using statis' blessing + curse + nucleo

[hardy dock]

Then with two less

[austere cargo]

an upgrade to HotE would be cool

[small timber]

because you can definitely use reaper tooth necklace on summoner even now, the only thing the suggestion is about is a loose connection of the theme of the item, with the main theme being abyss related (not even close to beast tamer)

[golden shoal]

true but then i also really like the aesthetics of reaper tooth and think it fits summoner, at least what i like abt that class, but that's more of a me thing ig

[small timber]

^

[unborn siren]

it stacks with vanilla components

[austere cargo]

seems like post-DoG would be about the right time for that upgrade

[hardy dock]

Does each class not have one post-dog accessory

[golden shoal]

they do

the exo one

[unborn siren]

so Statis curse + Papyrus scarab = 4 minion slots, but Statis curse + Statis blessing = 3 minion slots

[golden shoal]

i think the drought is actually brought on by the fusion of star tainted + statis' curse

freeing up a slot

and i just don't really like profaned soul artifact personally

it clutters my brain

[hardy dock]

What’s wrong with it

[golden shoal]

there's just like

a lot happening

idk tho i've only used it once so mby i should give it another chance

[hardy dock]

It’s literally just two free sons isn’t it

[golden shoal]

nono profaned

prov one

[hardy dock]

Oh

[austere cargo]

I just realized that dark sun ring gets even better in 1.4 because melee speed affects whips

[golden shoal]

prov one is 3 specific unique minions that do weird shit

[golden shoal]

oooo tru

[hardy dock]

You’re not really supposed to use that are you

[golden shoal]

in a standard summoner build?

[hardy dock]

Well the upgrade you’re not

[golden shoal]

then what do you use i'm still unclear lol

[hardy dock]

The regular accessory is pretty standard

[golden shoal]

?

[hardy dock]

The endgame one

[small timber]

godly soul artifact now is each yharon's son you summon you get 1 minion slot

[golden shoal]

i'm talking abt profaned soul artifact not crystal to be clear

[austere cargo]

man, whips do solve all of summoner's problems

[small timber]

basically with godly soul artifact your yharon son cost 4 minion slot instead of 5

[hardy dock]

The guardians one is

[golden shoal]

crystal is it's own thing that i also don't like personally but summoner is so diverse at that tier it literally doesn't matter

[hardy dock]

Such a standard summoner accessory

[austere cargo]

godly soul artifact is pretty underwhelming at the moment

[golden shoal]

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

that sounds... useless...

[small timber]

you basically have to spam at least 4 yharon son so godly soul artifact will be (remotely) useful

and that is with consideration that scal is 50% resistance to it

[austere cargo]

you can realistically get 5 sons of yharon up

[golden shoal]

is it? you can't pick the minions and it punishes getting hit slightly and like ppl were saying earlier, diversity of builds

[hardy dock]

The only major caviat with the profaned artifact is that they despawn briefly if you get hit

[golden shoal]

having every summoner build feature it seems like it could be cooler to have another option

[austere cargo]

(I said 4 before, but I meant 5)

[golden shoal]

..... why does this accessory exist 😭

[austere cargo]

but, again, 5 birbs is not as murderous as one would like

[hardy dock]

If they leave when you get hit then literally just don’t use the accessory as a tank summoner

[small timber]

ya basically spam 4 yharon son (somehow), and the accessory grant you the 5th one

[golden shoal]

ok i'm evn more confused abt what endgame summoner looks like now lol

[hardy dock]

Why would you even play tank Summoner at all

[small timber]

(good luck stacking that many minion slot though)

[golden shoal]

right or a tankyish summoner

[austere cargo]

auric tesla + standard summoner accessories gets you to 20

then you need necromantic scroll to get to 21 so you can spawn the 5th

[hardy dock]

Don’t play the class with tiny defense as a tanky playstyle

[small timber]

so basically don't use nucleogenesis but use everything else?

[golden shoal]

i wouldn't but there's still a spectrum right?

[austere cargo]

well, more accurately, gets you to 15

[small timber]

since nucleo basically make everything dont stack

[golden shoal]

there's complete glass cannon and can take like 3 hits instead of 1 =P

[austere cargo]

then necro scroll lets you get to 21 with godly, and removing it leaves you with exactly 20 for 5 sons

[hardy dock]

They literally come back after a couple seconds tho

[small timber]

and funny thing is scal take 50% reduced damage from yharon's son so you basically can only use it for exo mechs

[golden shoal]

does it work?

[austere cargo]

that seems excessive

[small timber]

+the 5 yharon's son will completely clutter your hitbox

[hardy dock]

I have no idea what summoner does against Exos

[austere cargo]

also, I know it'd be really hard to do this, but the 22 buff limit is really hard on summoner

[small timber]

it do work, but every bullethell you have 5 yharon's son wiggling on top of your character model

[hardy dock]

Thanatos sounds hellish with it

[small timber]

and you deal about the same damage as like cosmic immaterializer + 1 yharon's son

[golden shoal]

i hate the buff limit so much ;-;

[golden shoal]

XD

[austere cargo]

I don't mind the buff limit per se, but I do mind its implementation

[golden shoal]

right same

i wish there were like

3 seperate buff limits

[austere cargo]

having buffs and debuffs together is just so odd

[hardy dock]

It’s incredible how in one update auric went from “I have so many options where do I start” to “wow I get one upgrade, time to try and kill two bosses seemingly balanced around the tier above my current one and also with the old armor that gave two revives I now do not have!”

[austere cargo]

I think ideally there'd only be limits on temporary buffs

field buffs, summoner buffs, and debuffs don't really need to be capped

[drowsy plank]

debuffs being included in the buff list is the real war crime

thanks red

[small timber]

and then most classes other than melee and ranger dont even get real upgrade from exo

[hardy dock]

Rogue at least has stuff now

[austere cargo]

or just remove the buff limit and rebalance potion buffs

[hardy dock]

Multiple updates after it lost them

(I hate Seared pan I hate Seared pan I hate Seared pan

[small timber]

buff limit is more about how defensive you can be instead of offensive, because you can be extremely tanky with no buff limit

[austere cargo]

I'm not sure that's such a bad thing. calamity disfavors tanky strategies already

making combined potions never stack with their components might alleviate that a little

e.g. yharim's stimulants

[small timber]

the thing is the current balance is if you use those super good tanky buff, you will be sacrificing some damage, removing buff limit basically = no cost = why do I not spam every single potion in the game

which to certain degree every single boss in the game have to adjust to it

[austere cargo]

hence why it would need a rebalance

[drowsy plank]

buffs really are just a complete balancing disaster

[golden shoal]

mhm

[small timber]

the problem is why would tester rather go through all those rebalancing instead of just, limit buff slot

[austere cargo]

but like, imagine there was a cap of 10 on potion buffs, and uncapped on everything else

that would pretty much fix everything, right?

[small timber]

then some class are bound to be gimped, notably summoner and mage

[golden shoal]

applause

[drowsy plank]

the issue isn't a buff slot limit, it's that a ton of shit that just. aren't buffs are in the buff list because spaghetti code

[golden shoal]

tru

buff summoner and mage pots a tad?

[golden shoal]

tru

like every transformation or cooldown

[hardy dock]

That doesn’t really fix the issue

[golden shoal]

why not?

[small timber]

just make max "positive" buff slot like, 18, and uncapped "negative" buff slot

[drowsy plank]

early game players: i love my pets
late game players: where are my pets

[hardy dock]

Because they’ll still be taken off the buff bar

[austere cargo]

problem with max "positive" buff slot is twofold

armor set buffs and field buffs

[golden shoal]

yeeeepppp

[small timber]

nono by positive I mean is include those, basically exceed 18 you override your stuff

[hardy dock]

Armor set buffs could honestly just be added to the cooldown thing

[golden shoal]

right so just make it worth it

[small timber]

the intention is just so your buff is not overrided by boss debuff

[hardy dock]

That’s uh

[austere cargo]

I think that overriding buffs through anything except drinking potions is bad

[hardy dock]

Not a super good fix

[small timber]

or like, healing potion and rod cooldown

[golden shoal]

why not include those with the negative buffs? do they really need a limit?

[hardy dock]

It’s what we in the biz call a band aid fix

[austere cargo]

basically, you should only lose a buff when you take an action to do so

[hardy dock]

Except in this case we’re putting a band aid on a missing limb

[golden shoal]

i mean is it?

[austere cargo]

losing your attack boost because you accidentally went in range of a sunflower is just bad design

[small timber]

they dont, but at the sametime I will assume those armor and field buff basically make you stronger through the buff, devs have to find a new way to work around (providing benefit without making it an actual buff)

[golden shoal]

i think that the buff slot changes ppl are mentioning + balancing current pots around the new limit sounds right

[drowsy plank]

does bast give a buff? cause i know it gives you 5 defense but i dont think it has any potion effect associated with it

[austere cargo]

yes, it's called "the bast defense"

[small timber]

ya all of those are buffs

[drowsy plank]

nvm yeah

[small timber]

like almost everything you can imagine, that is not directly on an accessory or armor (in stat) is probably a buff

[drowsy plank]

field buffs are in a weird spot

[hardy dock]

If you just make the effect occur directly instead of adding a buff that causes the effect to occur

[austere cargo]

there's two things about field buffs

1. a lot of them are marginal

[golden shoal]

my idea is to have buff potions have a slot bar, and then give everything else a separate bar that's functionally infinite

[austere cargo]

2. it requires putting thought into your arena

[golden shoal]

tru

[austere cargo]

I would think the people who have made unlimited slot mods would have the knowledge of how one might go about implementing "buff limit on potions only"

or similar

[small timber]

I think field buff acquiring buff slot is fine, the only one that I seriously think should not take a buff slot is from armor/accessory

because if you have no limit on field buff you can get absurdly stronger, just see Luiafk Unlimited Arena buff

[austere cargo]

in current calamity you'd have the 4 candles, the two lanterns, campfire, sunflower if you're OK with solid blocks in your arena, and effigies

anything I forgot?

[small timber]

less about how many field buff actually is in the game, more about its opportunity cost, your campfire could potentially override a cadance or you must use 1 less potion for campfire, just as example

[austere cargo]

I just don't see why that is needed

[drowsy plank]

oh yeah baby gotta get that +2 regen from camp and heart lantern

[small timber]

because on the other hand (if unlimited buff slot), if you get 4 candles, 2 lanterns, campfire, sunflower and effigies for free, it is: x1.05 damage output, 0.4% max life regen, +2 life regen, mana regen, 10% movement speed, +10% damage and crit, for free

[austere cargo]

that seems fine

it's your reward for taking the time to set up a good arena

[small timber]

for context with potion swiftness provide 15% movement speed as 1 buff, rage and wrath provide +10% damage and 10% crit respectively, for 1 buff slot each

[austere cargo]

(also sunflowers are not free)

[drowsy plank]

if we were only talking about the vanilla ones, it's not that bad, but once the calamity candles come into play, you could start running into balancing issues

[austere cargo]

basically, all potion buffs are so much better than field buffs

that if they are competing with each other

[small timber]

and that is the point, field buff is permanent

[austere cargo]

yeah but who honestly doesn't use 30 pots = infinite duration >_>

[small timber]

can't really expect calamity to balance for a technically external mod

[drowsy plank]

me

[fossil bronze]

plenty of people don't use infinite potions

i don't

[austere cargo]

also potion buffs are only "temporary"

[small timber]

especially that calamity seem to be pushing towards not having to use those mods, with things like purchasable potion

[austere cargo]

because you just press B and reapply them as soon as they run out

[small timber]

grind and gold cost, and repeat for every single failed boss attempt

[austere cargo]

meh, field buffs are an arena building cost

[fossil bronze]

if the balance issue is mainly with candles, maybe something could be done like a limit specificially on how many calamity candles can be active at once?

[austere cargo]

candles aren't free

they're actually really expensive

[small timber]

nah the conversation was about if field buff should be free (because buff limit is an issue), not that field buff is too strong, I just say field buff maybe too strong if it is free

[fossil bronze]

maybe field buffs should not be allowed to override other buffs if you hit the buff limit?

[austere cargo]

I remain of the opinion that buffs should only be overwritten by explicit player actions

[small timber]

I just think the only exception from buff slot should be buffs from armor/accessory, eg: phantomic artifact that occupy 3 buff slots for very mediocre buff
and the other one is debuff should not override buff

[fossil bronze]

so if i have max buffs and walk past a sunflower i won't get the sunflower buff

[drowsy plank]

i dont think anyone disagrees

[austere cargo]

and that this field buff stuff is not worth violating that

[fossil bronze]

my preferred solution is just to increase the amount of buff slots to something you'll never hit the limit of

[austere cargo]

because if field buffs can overwrite potion buffs, that can happen

[fossil bronze]

but idk if that's a popular idea

[drowsy plank]

honestly there should just be a buff hierarchy, and debuffs, or things that are outside your control, are on a different plane entirely

[small timber]

the problem is as long as it is not unlimited you will hit the limit

[golden shoal]

ppl don't like this idea because then you just use every potion always and that incentivizes grinding a lot and whatnot

[small timber]

and the more you increase the number the harder it is to balance things

[austere cargo]

potions are powerful and deserve limitations, but field buffs just aren't that poweful

[golden shoal]

k what about 5 field buff limit in addition to pot buff limit

[small timber]

eg: if you have 28 buff slot instead of 22 now, you just use 6 more buff and suddenly you hit the limit, same for if you have 16 buff slot to begin with, increase by 6 you suddenly hit 22 very easily

[austere cargo]

by increase the amount of buff slots, I think he meant to something more like 100

you'll never hit that

[fossil bronze]

yes

the mod i prefer uses 200 slots

but i doubt you'll even hit 100

[small timber]

then it is pretty much unlimited buff slot (which is back to balance issue)

[drowsy plank]

i think an 18 potion limit, 5 field limit, debuffs unlimited, and remove potion effects from any equippable items and you have a pretty decent balance for the effects

[crude geode]

pretty sure decreasing the random shit that uses buff slots isn't minded by devs

[austere cargo]

18 seems too generous

[drowsy plank]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[austere cargo]

10 potion limit, unlimited everything else

[golden shoal]

i like this solution best

[small timber]

my opinion will be like 18 positive buff of any kind (potion field whatever), make debuff separate from buff slot then armor/accessory never apply buff to you

[golden shoal]

then it makes some sort of thematic sense too, you don't mix to many drugs irl cause the effects can hurt you or cancel out or somn

it's like your body can't handle more than 10 buff pots at a time so it doesn't

[austere cargo]

oh, I guess there's the question of how to count sharpening station and friends

[drowsy plank]

lol reminds me of how having 3 alcohols kills you

[golden shoal]

field buffs

[austere cargo]

alcohols would count as a potion for this

[golden shoal]

those just aren't given a limit

[golden shoal]

yeye

[drowsy plank]

considering 1.4 makes just station buffs unlimited i dunno if they really should even be part of the limit, but idk, that might be too generous

[fossil bronze]

i think that there shouldn't be a seperation between different kinds of buffs

[golden shoal]

i don't think they shld be part of the limit and then you just balance buff limit around them not being part of the limit

[golden shoal]

y?

[fossil bronze]

i don't know how you could sort them in a mod-compatible way

[fossil finch]

just
Just separate buffs, debuffs, summons, pets and mounts

[small timber]

and massive confusion issue (how do I know I can only use exaclty max 10 potion buff) etc

[drowsy plank]

tru

[golden shoal]

potion buffs (with a limit) everything else (without a limit)

[austere cargo]

that confusion issue exists for every limit

[lunar path]

yup. Armor and weapon related buffs should also be seperate

[golden shoal]

i still don't see where that fails

[austere cargo]

the current system is far worse about that

[lunar path]

yup that seems good tbh

[golden shoal]

"max 10 potion effects"

added to description

or just the same way players learn abt the summon nerf thingy

calamity isn't suuuuuper user friendly

[austere cargo]

put a guide quote in there

[golden shoal]

or new user friendly rather

[austere cargo]

"You can only have the effects of 10 potions at once, so you should choose carefully which ones you drink."

[small timber]

I will just slightly simulate how it is now: 22 buff slot, 1 boss effect, 1 for rod cooldown, 1 for health pot cd, 1 for potentially adrenaline/rage (either), then normal circumstances assume 3 candles (resilent is actually pretty awful right now until auric), then assume boss give 2 debuff, so right now your (absolutely maximum) buff you can use is 13

[austere cargo]

limit 10 potions, unlimited everything else seems to fit with that

[lunar path]

then also you would possibly have 1 pet, 1 light pet, a mount, armour effects, weapons effects and summons. Suddenly it's like 5 or 6

[small timber]

pet/light pet can be disabled, mount and summon is an issue, armor and weapon effect as I said about is the reason why I specifically don't want armor/accessory to have buff slot

[austere cargo]

maybe 10 is too high

[lunar path]

That's true. Though ideally pet and light pet wouldnt be disabled either

[austere cargo]

of course, all of this is kind of irrelevant if messing with buff slots in this way is programmatically unfeasible

[small timber]

for 10 potions, the following you almost have no reason to not use: cadance, rage (- summoner), wrath, yharim stimulant, well fed (swiftness, ironskin and endurance also this); if you are rich: soaring, bounding, (late) draconic elixir
the following are class specific: melee = tipsy, crumbling/shattering, any flask; mage: mana regen, magic power, 1/2 drunk princess alcohol (mage specific ones); summoner: summoning; rogue: crumbling/shattering, flask, shadow, penumbra; ranger: LOL (archery for arrow, thats about it)

so basically if limit is 10, you have almost no slot to use anything else

[hardy dock]

Can’t wait for the whole left side of my screen to be fucked up from the number of status effects in different spots on the screen

[austere cargo]

summoner probably isn't going to be using rage potion

[lunar path]

16 buffs would be enough for you to use every buff you'd ever want then

[austere cargo]

cadance and stimulants are a given, but it's less clear to me all of the rest are

[lunar path]

so maybe about 8-10 would be ideal

[small timber]

the thing is the list above completely excluded the optional buff, like titan scale, drunk princess alchool, gravity normalizer, photosynthesis, triump etc

[lunar path]

I did find an unlimited buff slots mod. So technically it's possible to change. But idk about adding separate catagories

[austere cargo]

indeed. but it's not clear to me all the ones you listed are tons better than those

you'll have to make decisions on which ones to use, but isn't that the point? Are you sure you want ironskin over gravity normalizer against a boss where it's relevant?

[small timber]

(since cadance and stim are pretty clear), rage and wrath are pretty much best dps potion in 1 slot, well fed is basically smaller stim, bounding is 1 accessory (frog leg), soaring is 1 accessory (aero stone), draconic elixir is as good as it gets for a single potion

[austere cargo]

in 1.3 well fed isn't that great

I guess it's not in 1.4 either. it's exquisitely stuffed that's the great one

[hot zephyr]

when the

buff system is hardcoded

[keen zealot]

in vanilla the buff cap exists literally just because having more buffs would clog up the screen too much at lower resolutions

[fossil bronze]

i don't think the summoner auto-resummon needs to be togglable, i think it just needs to be not broken

i've had it work like once

also multi-slot summons in calamity break it, it's not just other mods' summons

for example cosmic immaterializer just doesn't work with it
and pole warpers would make some of them disappear

[hearty oyster]

i think just making it togglable would be a lot simpler and easy to do thank fixing each broken interaction it has, but that could also be a solution

[novel belfry]

why not both

[hard bronze]

So what about draedons dialogue being configurable

Instead of getting the cool dialog the first time only

U can choose to get it every time

[fossil finch]

you get the cool dialogue every time
Unless you mean the choose section dialogue

[hard bronze]

Yeah

The first part

[fossil finch]

then ok

[unique vector]

why would u tho

u can just read it on the wiki

[ruby plover]

just sounds like another one of those configs that almost everyone has disabled

or enabled

[hard bronze]

Ok but what if I want to read it before the fight because I'm making a video or something and I want it to be included anyways without having to do an extra step

[unique vector]

then get nycro's mod that lets you unkill a boss or smth

[ruby plover]

thats a very specific situation

[hard bronze]

Wait what

[unique vector]

idk bro

there are tons of games that have first-time cutscenes

[ruby plover]

also i dont think nycros would work, since it only displays the first time you summon draedon, regardless of if you beat them on that first attempt

[unique vector]

you dont see ppl complaining theres no config to make them replay

ohh ur right its not based on kill

regardless, thats a niche issue

i hate using this phrase but its a "you issue"

[hard bronze]

K

[unique vector]

dont see why we need to add another config just for something like that but then again im caring too much for a small sugg lmao

[muted osprey]

config for each line of dialog in the mod

[hard bronze]

Bro it was a small suggestion

[unique vector]

idnc

L + ratio

(im kidding)

you can still post the sugg if you want

its not that its not allowed

[ruby plover]

it's a fine thing to want, i just do not see it getting anywhere near enough votes

[unique vector]

i just fully disagree with it and if it passes im downvoting it

that too

[hard bronze]

Yeah ik I just got triggered at this

[muted osprey]

sorreh

[hard bronze]

Thanks tho for the feedback on the sugg

[hard bronze]

Ur good bro 👍

[west jackal]

Wouldn’t the easier solution to bugs with the auto resummoning

Be just to right click the summon buff

[cobalt pewter]

@elder path no.

[elder path]

Understandable

[small timber]

@elder path wrong channel to chat, in other case some external mods like luiafk already have item that do that

and you can just, you know, move npc housing, unless you are too lazy to build shoeboxes

@inland saddle also sorry for ping (since usually mods do this), but the suggestion bot seem to be broken again (this time also not work in #suggestions-posting )

[inland saddle]

oh

it actually went offline

okay thats actually finally something useful

i'll fix in just a second

[small timber]

ok, thanks

[grim tusk]

@hollow shell #suggestions-posting

[inland saddle]

I stg someone has been sneaking onto my PC and modifying the code

[grave zinc]

@hardy dock - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Aquatic Scourge despawn in biomes outside the Sulphuric Sea]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@digital saddle - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Despawn Cosmic Guardians during DoG's death animation]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@cursive briar - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Give Summoner weapons their own set of reforge modifiers]

It has been reviewed by the devs, and for one reason or another they decided it would be best not to implement it.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@rancid jasper - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Have the Drunk Princess' Death Message be "[insert Drunk Princess name here] passed out..."]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@dapper thicket - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Convert Pre-Hardmode, vanilla ores into astral ore within the initial Astral Biome creation]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@cobalt pewter - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Uzi more accessible.]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@gilded scroll - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[**Wulfrum Furniture. **]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@frail moth - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Meteorite Turn Into Astral Ore When Sprayed With Astral Solution]

It has been reviewed by the devs, and for one reason or another they decided it would be best not to implement it.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@unborn siren - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Add a bit about how Providence drops a different item depending on which biome you kill her in to the Profaned core tooltip]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[unborn siren]

cool

[golden tulip]

aw

[cobalt pewter]

1997 kromer