suggestions-discussion

[tranquil folio]

ye

[unique vector]

[tranquil folio]

balancing is hard

[worthy lintel]

where is my underdog mechanic where getting hit consecutively gives me more DR

[tranquil folio]

removed. replaced with getting hit consecutively takes your defense

[small timber]

frigid bulwark

[worthy lintel]

can't have shit in #suggestions-discussion

:(

[sleek wadi]

Guts in Terraria 😳

[tranquil folio]

what if maxed adren gives permanent DR and does not deplete when hit, only when you activate adren

like 3-5% dr

[grim tusk]

cring

[small timber]

it will break balance

like a lot

[worthy lintel]

not depleting when hit would be an absolute nightmare

phases would cease to exist

adrenaline on command sounds as horrible as it is

[grim tusk]

just make stress pills increase the DR gain from adren, and maybe make it able to partially gain it when adren >50%

thats it

[tranquil folio]

and + 4 defense

for no reason

[tranquil folio]

good idea

[grim tusk]

stress pills already does that

[tranquil folio]

15% DR when 50% adrenaline

[grim tusk]

no thats too fucking much

[worthy lintel]

adrenaline works better as an all-or-nothing mechanic

[tranquil folio]

;-;

5%?

[sleek wadi]

The current DR from adrenaline seems more like compensation than anything else

[grim tusk]

5% maybe when you have all upgrades on lol

[cobalt pewter]

yes

[west jackal]

rage needs a rework tbh

[grim tusk]

rage is epic

[cobalt pewter]

rage is already reworked???

[west jackal]

Adrenaline is already there for damage

[sleek wadi]

Rage is great where it is right now

[tranquil folio]

no

dont touch rage

[sleek wadi]

Its a proper counterpart to adrenaline now, encouraging riskier play and rewarding it with a longer less powerful damage boost

[west jackal]

I’m talking making it more unique to differ from adrenaline

[tranquil folio]

its already unique

[west jackal]

like doing something other than a damage boost

[tranquil folio]

like?

[sleek wadi]

Unless you have shattered community, then its a free 50% damage boost lmao

[unique vector]

rage doesnt need to be more unique

ur asking it to be reworked for the sake of it being unique

[west jackal]

yeah

[small timber]

it is hard to find something that is more useful than just damage

[unique vector]

its already good enough having a different source of generation than andrenaline

[small timber]

since it needs to be usable on all class

[unique vector]

i dont really

think either rippers need any changes lmao

[tranquil folio]

they could add a 1% speed boost when rage is maxed

[unique vector]

rage is good now with its new generation source

and adrenaline is adrenaline

[sleek wadi]

I also don't think theres any other proper reward for it. More mobility would just throw people off, more defense doesn't feel good and also facetanks lul, and any other stat would just be DPS increase but different

[small timber]

if you end the fight with rage you gain more gold

[tranquil folio]

if you dont use rippers at all during a fight, you get more gold

[sleek wadi]

Rage increases drop rates

[unique vector]

(i dont think its a good idea to make the modes revolve even more around the rippers)

[grim tusk]

^

[tranquil folio]

yesh

[west jackal]

I never really liked them tbh

[tranquil folio]

then dont use them

play ripperless

[unique vector]

i mean

guess you cant appease everybody

unless theres an actual issue with them

[tranquil folio]

i never relied on adrenaline defense

only offense

[west jackal]

I didn’t even know it gave defense lmao

[sleek wadi]

Adrenaline defense is hella just compensation

[tranquil folio]

so im fine if they chuck the defense mechanics out of the window

[sleek wadi]

You fucked up trying to stall for a phase skip or something, at least you aren't left with completely nothing

[grim tusk]

actually yea why does adren even have defensive component

[west jackal]

Probably what spark just said

[spare prawn]

the hecks a ripper

[sleek wadi]

The collective name for Adrenaline and Rage

[spare prawn]

huh

[unique vector]

(do the defense mechanics cause a problem?)

[tranquil folio]

they never did

[silver silo]

There are no enemies that attack other enemies correct

[unborn siren]

not directly

[tranquil folio]

why does sugg bot do that 😭

[inner anvil]

Ayo, sup' sugg bot.

[grave zinc]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-grimm-hi-gif-22138420

[brittle pumice]

how you doin

[languid quartz]

AWESOME BOT

[cobalt pewter]

incredible

[tranquil folio]

finally

Suggestion Bot embed works

🌟

[frozen hornet]

holy shit sentient suggbot

[languid quartz]

nycro is a powerful entity

[frail mantle]

good bot

[violet dagger]

meanwhile old suggestion bot is crying in the corner after seeing how much better the new one is

it served us well for 3 years iirc

[dapper coral]

lets try not to put down the old bot thanks

amber worked really hard on that one so its a bit disrespectful to do so

[tranquil folio]

Press F to pay respects

[violet dagger]

I also find it kinda jarring looking back at old suggestions that got sent but they have no color thing on the side but that's not possible to change to my knowledge

[cobalt pewter]

I think it's fine now, the reason the colors existed was because you need to look back at your sugg to see how it's going

while with the new bot I think it'll notify you when a sugg advanced or voted on

[violet dagger]

no the colors still exist

what I mean is for ones that are from the old bot

[unique vector]

the colors exist still yeah

[violet dagger]

and were sent by the new one

[unique vector]

the new bot cant change the colors on the old bot

[violet dagger]

yeah thats what I meant

[cobalt pewter]

ahhhhhhhh

[unique vector]

nycro is workin on dat yeh

[inland saddle]

It’s already online

You get a reply ping as well

[unique vector]

OH

explodion

[crude geode]

@finite smelt Golden Gun

[finite smelt]

i'm talking more about an actual ranged weapon, not a classless ichor applier

use cursed bullets and remove cursed capper then

[hollow shell]

@finite smelt It's not the only instance
[[Demonic Pitchfork]]

[red storm]

https://calamitymod.fandom.com/wiki/Demonic_Pitchfork

[hollow idol]

demonic pitchfork...

[hollow shell]

Unless you don't consider this an "evil biome" weapon
It's still only available in one world evil and has no Crimson counterpart iirc

Yeah it's a uhhhh

great weapon...

[distant gyro]

demonic pitchfork,,.,.

(lol)

[finite smelt]

it is a semi-dedicated weapon though, if the wiki is to be believed.

it's just trivia

trivia is for non-important weapon info

(afaik, do feel free to show me a trivia dotpoint that has important ingame info)

[distant gyro]

suggestions are not dedicated

[finite smelt]

"semi-dedicated"

[distant gyro]

there used to be a time where those get accepted

[finite smelt]

used to be

i wonder if geekman is still around here...

@ Geek doesn't show up, so a hard no

[distant gyro]

yeah but you don't need permission to edit those, that's the big difference

[finite smelt]

fai

r

i could add it into the suggestion

[distant gyro]

one day someone can just pull out the hammer and it's gone

(Crimsaber)

[tranquil folio]

its unnecessary

not even for trivia

[finite smelt]

crimsaber?

damn how many world evil items have i missed?

oh wait

i realise what you were getting at now

[frail mantle]

rest in peace crimsaber

[finite smelt]

it's gone

[distant gyro]

an old deleted weapon which is a suggestion by the very same person who suggested demonic pitchfork

[frail mantle]

people literally didn't remember you existed until you were removed

[finite smelt]

wait

[tranquil folio]

Scheisse

[finite smelt]

crimsaber....

so demonic pitchfork used to have a crimson counterpart

[frail mantle]

crimsaber was a sword

[distant gyro]

yeah

that was as much of a stretch as cursed capper and golden gun

[finite smelt]

^

atleast crimsaber has the link of being suggested by the same person

[distant gyro]

different classes stuf

[earnest raptor]

I remember it

there was a bug with pinkymod when you could obtain souls pre-hm

and I made crimsaber in pre-hm

it was fun to demolish enemies at bloodmoon with overhaul dashes

[small timber]

the only version of draedon that I am FORCED to go bottom left or right is literally malice

death mode is completely dodgeable in a relatively small space

[digital prism]

?

[small timber]

ya I pinged you before you added title

sry

[digital prism]

its not that its not doable its that its almost as cheeseable and vanilla king slime

[small timber]

you mean full world arena?

[digital prism]

ye

[small timber]

I will present 2 argument here just for your information:

1. full world arena is not close to even reasonable without cheat tools, it is no-hitter choice to treat something unreasonable like that as valid option

2. I think the devs are already trying to find a way that stop "dropping the entire world" to be the most viable strategy

[digital prism]

I see

[small timber]

so you probably need to change the suggestion reason just a bit, since 1) is technically not even close to doable

at the very least your suggestion should not be based around full world arena

[digital prism]

ok

[small timber]

I think the "if you drop too much... enrage to punish you..." part can keep, just less about full world arena

[digital prism]

but you dont need a full world arena just a large area

[small timber]

ya it kinda is the problem, from personal experience even death mode draedon is doable in a relatively small space

on the other hand malice is complete disaster

just that it will be very hard to make a suggestion around something that is literally possible with cheat tools

[digital prism]

I think im to used to calamity being cold hearted

over exageration

[small timber]

and 2nd reason is I am afraid in their effort to "punish full world arena", it end up screwing people trying to fight it in small arena even more

like 10x more predictive shot

[digital prism]

that is possible

it would probably result in the fight being buffed to oblivion

[small timber]

I think the only thing you need to change is from "most of the fight spent dropping bottom left/right..." to "dropping bottom left/right is a viable strategy rather than properly dodging the boss projectile"

since it turns from implying that "dropping bottom left/right" is the ONLY strategy to "while many strategy is available, dropping bottom left/right for 80% of the fight is just undoubtly superior in every way which is dumb"

[digital prism]

i see

i tried to improve

what do you think

[earnest raptor]

I think any boss difficulty suggestions are worthless

because difficulty is subjective

you may find ares projectiles hard, but somebody will fly over them with ease

[digital prism]

Enlighten me, my monkey brain no understand

[small timber]

boss difficulty is subjective, a strategy that works 99% of the time used to cheese a boss is not subjective

[digital prism]

y i no understand engliz

[small timber]

because I do completely agree with suggestion, I just trying to find way for it to get accepted, since boss suggestion tend to be hard to pass, especially one that buff a boss

no matter if it is good for the game or not

[earnest raptor]

[digital prism]

oh ok

[small timber]

I think it is probably fine, the rest can only leave up to the community to vote

though if it is up to me I will put the "I suggest adding some form of..." to a separte line, just for ease of reading

basically just shift+enter 1 more time

[earnest raptor]

enrages are blunt way to solve the problem

[digital prism]

so make it look bigger?

[small timber]

no just put it in separate line

[earnest raptor]

I think changing the pattern of attacks so moving in one direction is not the best strategy would be better

[small timber]

...there is not much dodging required and the fight is becoming dumb and simple.

I suggest adding some form of enragement to the fight if you go out of a certain area or changing up the AI so its not as simple and more maneuvering skill is required. I feel the fight should be less of a waiting period and more of a bullet hell.

like this, just easier to read

[digital prism]

ok

[small timber]

preferably it should not be enrage, but on the other hand any other change will be considered large scale rework, which is prohibited in suggestion

so not much choice here

[digital prism]

is that better

[small timber]

I think only need to separte the "I suggest adding..." line

the rest is a bit too much separation

(will delete later)

[digital prism]

oh

[eternal escarp]

okay like this top note, the cheesability of the boss is quite litterally on the subject of the players own patiance

[small timber]

The Draedon fight is not really fun anymore because most of the fight is spent going either towards the bottom left of your screen or the top right of your screen (there are many other strategies but one of the main things i like about the calamity mod is that rarely does a boss ever have an easy way out and seeing that one of the main last bosses is cheaseable in all difficulties just makes me generally infuriated), there is not much dodging required and the fight is becoming dumb and simple.

I suggest adding some form of enragement to the fight if you go out of a certain area or changing up the AI so its not as simple and more maneuvering skill is required. I feel the fight should be less of a waiting period and more of a bullet hell.

[eternal escarp]

if you bother making a world long arena then go ahead, thats your choice

the boss(es) is rather obviously not build for massive world wide arenas, and are completely doable with just the surface

insert "even nohitters guideline-banned going underground unless Malice"

[small timber]

that will be valid if the boss stated "this will be completely doable with just the surface", but it is not the case, exo mechs do not limit the arena in any way

[digital prism]

but thats the thing malice is meant to be hard not the easy way out

[small timber]

therefore it is up for the dev to design the boss to stop player from cheesing the boss by abusing an unreasonable arena

[earnest raptor]

ares is like easiest mech because you can just fall down for all but one attacks

[eternal escarp]

you could make your arguement for malice only

[eternal escarp]

also i think theres no real reason for it to be noted

quite a lot of bosses can be cheesed with a world wide arena

insert SG, Providence...

its a given that its not intended

[digital prism]

you cant go to far from prov or you die

[earnest raptor]

useless, malice is supposed to be haha very hard

[eternal escarp]

DoG to some extent, Aureus to some extent, KS but who cares, EoC

[eternal escarp]

its still possible to just simply run away at a certain pace

and it does make the fight significantly easier

[small timber]

most of them stop it by simply despawning, on the case of the like of providence it is not really a one-trick fight

the suggestion specifically mention that it is a one-trick fight that you 1) have a large arena, and 2) drop bottom left and right

[eternal escarp]

yeah, i guess despawning works, though not all bosses despawn so easily

i.e falling forever with Ravager P2

[small timber]

I know I only mentioned arena above but I thought both are talked together

[eternal escarp]

to be fair the whole fight isnt one trick, atleast not in my eyes

[digital prism]

Eoc would despawn Aureus gets enraged and becomes to fast to avoid

[eternal escarp]

Ares, maybe

[digital prism]

and DoG teleports and speeds up

[eternal escarp]

Aureus doesnt enrage outside of daytime im pretty sure

DoG teleports take a while to actually like, spawn him, so its rather possible

[digital prism]

he becomes faster outside of the astral infection

[small timber]

ares definitely, twins only need to NR the beam (or you just tank it in non-nohit) and you probably can dodge most of thanatos just naturally

[eternal escarp]

i am like 90% certain Aureus has no Astral requirement

[eternal escarp]

you can infact spin around the Exothermal Beam (Ohio)

[earnest raptor]

thanatos is only one mech that like actually moves

[eternal escarp]

its just way easier for people to RoD (im faulty too )

[small timber]

I mean from the perspective of full one-trick, ares you can just purposefully enrage him (and he will still miss all projectile)

[eternal escarp]

yeah Thanatos is rather the only mech youd likely not take a direction and adjust, in his Berserk

[earnest raptor]

the other exo dudes just stick to the screen allowing you to dodge by falling

[eternal escarp]

what im mostly saying is that

[small timber]

thanatos projectile in non-malice do not chase you fast enough

[digital prism]

they should buff thanato's speed

[small timber]

nah thanatos is fine (just need to be more tanky against things like dragon rage and final dawn), more with ares and twins

[earnest raptor]

🥔 + 🪱 +

[digital prism]

if thanatos could chase you faster than going to the bottom of the screen wouldnt be a very good option

[small timber]

twins attack is too fast (especially malice) to reasonably dodge that people have to use absurd strat like that, ares attack stops many strategy so much but is doable on his own, and then you add 2 more mechs

[eternal escarp]

Exo Mechs are just fine since they arent really intended to use a world wide arena, since no boss is
the only real section of the fight id agree has a singular "trick" being falling is when all 3 are apparent, because after Ares shoots his first tesla rounds you have no real option to do anything else

[small timber]

the other problem is the 2000 different splitting projectile that is not remotely predictable

[eternal escarp]

wait, like what?

Ares' plasma?

or Apollo's?

[digital prism]

its a new boss and they just rebalanced the whole post moonlord it 1000% has alot of flaws

[earnest raptor]

again, I think than devs will not listen to malice suggestions

[eternal escarp]

im fairly certain (though maybe its actually just something ive gathered from Infernum testing) Apollo's Plasma always does X then + shapes, and they just alternate their patterns

for Ares' Plasma im not so sure, but (in Rev atleast) he only shoots 2 of those so they rather pose little issue

[small timber]

ares plasma, ares nuke, apollo cursed flame, apollo dash, artemis mass pulse laser, the main problem is 90% of them have predictiveness in some way which makes going a single direction optimal as randomly moving around makes the split completely uncontrollable

main concern being predictiveness

[digital prism]

so your saying they should randomise some attacks

[eternal escarp]

so ive noted Apollo's Plasma

Ares Nuke is unneeded i agree but its also on set pattern and set value

[earnest raptor]

oh god, not rng

[eternal escarp]

Apollo's zig-zag dashing is really easily countered by just, walking a bit to the left/right afaik

assuming you are to RoD Ohio

seeing as you mentioned that beforehand

or someone else did

okay wiki does not note what i claim for Apollo's Plasma so, scrap that for now, even though im fairly certain its real

[small timber]

I will just put a comparison: imagine if scal do not have an arena and replace every single one of her brimstone hellblast with brimstone fireblast

that is the problem with exo mechs right now, tracking a single projectile is not difficult, adding their attack frequency + 2 mechs on top of it and suddenly dropping left/right becomes optimal

[eternal escarp]

yeah that is where i agree, the part with all 3 mechs is rather a mess

but when they are on their own its rather fine

2 mechs is somewhat a stretch though usually Thanatos is countered by dodging the second mech paired with it

and if its Ares Twins then uh

yeah that is where the stretch breaks

[small timber]

ya twins is almost always the problem, at least from my own experience

thanatos is doable, ares is super predictable, meanwhile twins is complete ham

[eternal escarp]

they are rather the most challenge the fight posses

Twins can be dodged alone by seeing where Artemis shoots and dropping . flying the above / below it depending to its aim

but when paired with say, Thanatos

the easier of the pairing

you are indeed forced to either fly up at a pace or down at a pace

[stiff wren]

then this fight really is just mechs 2: revenge

[eternal escarp]

with Ares its the same thing but slightly harder

the mechs work greatly alone

[stiff wren]

yes

[eternal escarp]

their combination and specifically their 3(4) part is where i agree with the sugg

[digital prism]

i have an idea, whenever you move in the same direction for 6.5 seconds or more you get sniped by Draedon and the shot takes 50% of your hp

[small timber]

ah yes of course the "every 6.49 seconds I switch direction" strategy

nah tbh they need to somehow rework (but not full rework) the fight, but grand scale rework is prohibited in suggestion

so not gonna happen

[eternal escarp]

that would be

a bad idea

it doesnt fix the issue that causes the "cheese"

[stiff wren]

ok so what if whenever you move downwards thanatos teleports behind you and crawls up your ass

[digital prism]

i like the draedon sniper idea

[stiff wren]

that would solve nothing though

[digital prism]

i like the thanatos up ur ass

[eternal escarp]

rather just punishes you for something you are maybe forced to do in the all mech part

[small timber]

I think ideally it should be something like "thanatos speed up to chase ahead of your movement if you drop for too long", or something like artemis position at your dropping cardinal direction and shoots from there

[digital prism]

what about like the eidolon wyrm he uses the forece to throw you in the opposite direction

[eternal escarp]

what?

[stiff wren]

make a world size arena
fall downwards to cheese the exo mechs
draedon uses the force to throw you in front of ares's nuke

[eternal escarp]

i still feel like this wouldnt really solve the issue that makes the player have to fall down forever in those specific sections

rather just punish you for it

[digital prism]

true

[small timber]

at the very least there will be something stopping you, rather than... just viable

[eternal escarp]

well yes but then what other viable way would you be able to (consistently) dodge those specific combinations?

[stiff wren]

luck(tm)

[eternal escarp]

consistent
trolled

[small timber]

and that is the problem with exo mechs isnt it? there is no other way to super consistently dodge them, especially 3 mechs

[eternal escarp]

there is except 3 mechs

[small timber]

on non-nohit it is whatever, for no-shitters it is disaster

[stiff wren]

if you are lucky then you will dodge the attacks with perfect consistency

[eternal escarp]

[stiff wren]

im a genius

[eternal escarp]

byeah, EMechs are 100% consistent, i know this because hurdur nohitted them hurdur
but the singular consistent way for 3 mech phase is falling, which is what people would aim to fix

[frozen hornet]

I can see a way to dodge all 3 mechs while not moving too much but it requires focusing on like 7 different things at once which is really hard

[eternal escarp]

for the other singular mechs theres consistant options that arent falling

Ares is more so wiggling usually while noting the Laser hand, Artemis and Apollo is charging towards one and reacting by going up or down

Thanatos is just uh

[digital prism]

when i 1st heard draedon fight i thaught draedon in a giant mech tank with a forcefield so you cant escape not haha buffed mech bosses cant hit me while im falling

[eternal escarp]

run away till his Laser and then stand close

[small timber]

who is hurdur?

[eternal escarp]

no one its juist the

emote

[stiff wren]

yeh thats not uh, great

[frozen hornet]

ares laser already punishes going in one direction

[stiff wren]

i dont think theres a way to fix that without just reworking the boss

[frozen hornet]

by literally whooping your ass

[stiff wren]

when dash

[small timber]

and then there is 2 other directions for ares laser to not cover

[frozen hornet]

GS dash?

[eternal escarp]

you could just simply

[stiff wren]

no like just move

[eternal escarp]

rework the 3 mech phase

and keep the rest as is

[frozen hornet]

ye

[stiff wren]

if you are on the other side of ares then the laser wall cant do anything

[small timber]

ya tbh 3 mech is complete disaster

[stiff wren]

yeah

[small timber]

the rest I can cope with even if inconsistent, 3 mech is just

[frozen hornet]

I mean fab did say exo mechs won't get fundamental reworkks or smth like that

[digital prism]

sound good

[stiff wren]

then we're fucked

[small timber]

the only reason 3 mech even is close to working right now is because all mechs have combat effectiveness decrease by 75% during the phase, which do not make sense from a design perspective whatsoever (nerf them just so they can be together)

[eternal escarp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTB0h98fumw anyways shameless plugg loo lol!
id say EMechs have rather fine dodging schemes that arent worldwide falling (unless Ares shoots at the right time to force you to go down more ) except for 3 Mechs, where you just simply HAVE to fall at a certain point

[digital prism]

then the Dreaedon fight will stay disappointing

[frozen hornet]

I mean don't they already have that even in 2 mech phases

ares shooting one less electro ball or smth I forgot

[eternal escarp]

they do but like

its not very noticable and it doesnt make a difference as much

[frozen hornet]

ye

[fossil finch]

Opinion issue here

[frozen hornet]

I already enjoy the fight a lot so I don't really care

[fossil finch]

Maybe just nerf their attack speed even more in 3 mechs

Or make them not do some attacks

[digital prism]

wtf that would make the fight ez as king slime on a rope in vanilla

[fossil finch]

You don't HAVE to rework them to fix their issues

No???

[frozen hornet]

ah yes

[fossil finch]

if the complaint is precisely "impossible to dodge if you don't do x"

[small timber]

I mean ideally (like literally fantasy scenerio), mechs do completely different combination attack at 2 and 3 mechs

[frozen hornet]

I think just making artemis not do the shotgundash is enough

[digital prism]

i think replce shotgun with a burst attack

or delay the time between the shot and the markings

[frozen hornet]

or just don't have arte do any special attacks

[eternal escarp]

(pretty sure Artemis already doesnt do his shotgun in 3 mechs)

[digital prism]

i think he does shotgun but not the shotgun dash

[small timber]

in 2 mechs artemis still shotgun, shotgun dash or pure shotgun is just whether twins enter phase 2 at 60%

3 mechs no

[digital prism]

oh

[frozen hornet]

damn must've misremembered

[grim tusk]

Only Malice Ares needs world tour

Actually heck didnt a sugg like this get discused already

[small timber]

nah that suggestion didnt mean just ares, it means the entire fight

the suggestion in a nutshell: basically the easiest way to beat all three mechs is full world falling which should not work

[grim tusk]

I meant that the only part where its reasonable to do that falling strat is Malice ares

[small timber]

from my experience you actually no need full world falling for malice ares, you only need it for 3 mechs

and there is almost on other choice for 3 mechs

[grim tusk]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/910774278729916426/933158276722487336/All_at_once.mp4 agreed

[grim tusk]

Malice ares does need it tho, for regular fight its just 3 mechs at once but you dont need full world lol

Something i’d like is for Thanathos to be less passive and try to obstruct you more while other mechs are out, kills the problem of falling for too long too

[small timber]

malice ares need falling, but not full world, at least nowhere near

[grim tusk]

Agreed

[small timber]

3 mechs if you are playing regularly you don't need, if you are noshitting falling is by far more consistent

any other strat is too inconsistent to even try

[digital prism]

so the fight is so unbalanced you need a cheesy strat to no hit or maybe even to beat it in death mode + malice mode

[exotic stag]

nohit shouldnt be used for sugging.

[small timber]

but the concern of the suggestion is the fact that falling full world is a VIABLE strategy and almost the optimal strategy, not necessary whether it is needed or not

[exotic stag]

and combining death malice is just a challenge mode on yourself at that point

[digital prism]

i think now the full world is the optimal strat

[exotic stag]

basically: Take sugg's about buffing/nerfing in the standard calamity game mode Revengeance. Unless you are suggesting to buff something in a certain mode. or change a certain mode.

And no the full world is not the optimal strat.

theres a few

[stiff wren]

ok tell us about them

[digital prism]

lol

[exotic stag]

Well theres obviously beach camping.

[stiff wren]

list all the strategies that are just as good as falling

[small timber]

the different between "optimal strategy" and "strategy" is big

[digital prism]

i have only seen 1 draedon fight where the full world wasnt used

[stiff wren]

yeah

[grim tusk]

#suggestions-discussion message @digital prism read

[grim tusk]

Want to see others?

[small timber]

ya particularly the 3)

[small timber]

just not sure if it will screw over people not dropping the entire world (like +10 predictiveness on all shots)

[grim tusk]

That will do nothing but mechs overthink and miss

[exotic stag]

the reason why full world is more optimal then the others is because of your speed and stuff at that stage

[grim tusk]

Infernum Exo Twins used to have that problem, until we reworked their primary fire

[exotic stag]

because your at the endgame. you'd be guaranteed to atleast have SOME movement speed

[grim tusk]

Before rework you could bunny hop towards Artemis and never get hit

[digital prism]

my problem is that its unlike calamity to let there be a cheesy strategy to a boss fight. especially with such an important fight

[grim tusk]

Read

[digital prism]

that dosent solve the problem i just stated

[small timber]

I think twins is by far more of a problem (particularly shotgun), and in 2/3 mechs thanatos

[grim tusk]

Once you get used to it, it aint a problem

[eternal escarp]

i still think the arguement of "its viable" is rather moot since its obvious if you grind your entire world off blocks you will have an easy time

no real playthrough will ever do it

and if they do then good for them

[exotic stag]

theres usually cheesy strategies that get nerfed.

[small timber]

or maybe just malice problem, I didnt get to try death mode exo too much

[exotic stag]

like DS being cheesed by high heights

which was nerfed due to his new charge

[small timber]

wait a minute what death mode exo twins even looks like

[digital prism]

did they make the crystyl crusher post draedon

[stiff wren]

in my experience death exo mechs are like
pain

[stiff wren]

its post draedon AND post scal

[small timber]

ok I think I accidently confused malice exo twins with death mode twins

[exotic stag]

post both endgames.

[eternal escarp]

i have (and seems like storm repeated with other examples) that the boss never does require such big arena, nowhere is it even incentivized
so the fact people would go ravage their entire world to make an arena is frankly their fault

[grim tusk]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/910774278729916426/933156357941657610/Better_example.mp4 rev/death

Malice just adds 2 more lasers to the sides

And makes it faster

[exotic stag]

bullet.

[small timber]

ya I think the only problem I have with malice exo twins is just shotgun is way too compact, or it is because projectile speed

it comes way too soon

[eternal escarp]

(frankly its rather easy to go between his shotgun iirc)

[exotic stag]

^

the shotgun just spreads out too much too early.

[eternal escarp]

since youd prolly go agianst Apollo in P2, or in P1 its rather easy to just outfly / drop / run / etc

[small timber]

because if I solve exo twins soon then all problem solve

[eternal escarp]

re iirc

ETwins alone are perfectly fine

the only part of the fight this sugg frankly can apply to with the provided content is 3 mechs

the fact its viable doesnt mean its something litterally everyone would do to invalidate the fight, since (normal playthrough speaking, the way Cal is supposed to be) this will take literal days to actually make

[small timber]

oh god I just realise why the fight is so hard, I keep moving towards artemis, F

[eternal escarp]

[small timber]

I forgor

[stiff wren]

lmao

[eternal escarp]

i move to Artemis in P1 and to Apollo in P2

byeah

regardless

i just think the sugg is more so just "Nerf possible but really time consuming arena because its something that people can make eventually / with other mods"

with the latter not being of concern to Calamity

and the former is just on the player if they choose to spend days to somewhat "cheese" a boss

[digital prism]

and there are fast ways of mining if you have the right acessories and mounts

[eternal escarp]

it would still take

literal days

[exotic stag]

most of those fast minings are like. blossom pick

and thats it

[eternal escarp]

to excavate a full world

[exotic stag]

unless you use luiafk's mount

or world buster

which are other mods

[eternal escarp]

which is not of concern, yeah

[digital prism]

it dosent literaly need to be the whole world

[eternal escarp]

i mean, if you want to fall diagonally youd need a rather large chunk of the world

which is a alot to mine and platform

[digital prism]

the platforming is the long part

[eternal escarp]

which still brings me to

[eternal escarp]

this

[digital prism]

and people use hammered platforms so it takes even longer

[eternal escarp]

if the player themselves chooses to spend full evenings to "cheese" some boss then thats fully on them

i dont see any reason why it should be accounted for when the average player will likely use a normal surface arena

[digital prism]

i just think its not in the nature of calamity

[eternal escarp]

what isnt?

its not Cal's fault if the player chooses to completely wreck a world to somewhat "cheese" some boss

[exotic stag]

he thinks cheesing isnt in the nature of calamity. despite there being like

6000 different ways to cheese

[eternal escarp]

same with Polterghast

[digital prism]

letting such a cheesy strategy be possible

[exotic stag]

even SCAL has cheese.

[digital prism]

how

[eternal escarp]

was just about to say that

something with hoiking

[exotic stag]

gigablast blocker. hoiking. exo box

[eternal escarp]

case in point, Calamity should and already doesnt exactly care for cheese strats of this type

since those are 100% on the player

[exotic stag]

DS had his cheese strat nerfed because it was way too easy to do.

[digital prism]

scals bullet hell phases are random so its upto rng

[eternal escarp]

still missing my point

[digital prism]

i see

[exotic stag]

if the cheese strat is easy to pull off and fully invalidates the boss. then duh its gonna get nerfed

[stiff wren]

at what point does it stop being strategy and starts being cheese

[digital prism]

so its up to the player to play whatever way they want

[exotic stag]

basically if it invalidates something entirely. its cheese

and gigablast blocker pretty much invalidates the gigablasts.

[eternal escarp]

that

[eternal escarp]

yeah, its a Sandbox game

[exotic stag]

like the DS cheese.

it invalidated DS entirely

[eternal escarp]

that is the point of Sandbox games, you play as you wish

[stiff wren]

DS cheese?

[eternal escarp]

some things can try enforcing but you can never fully enforce anything in a Sandbox game

[exotic stag]

placing a platform just above his jump height before his charge.

before his charge update

the charge update fixed that issue with the fact his jump couldn't reach a certain height

[eternal escarp]

because by that logic youd have to patch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ayxP86Pibw&list=PLU0ig_Z7ewuT8hd4Ha2v0GwpzLFr7KTZA&index=1

[stiff wren]

actually there is a way to enforce things in a sandbox game
just go on discord and say "[thing] is cheating and if you do it then you have massive skill issue and im good"

[eternal escarp]

which, good luck doing so without ruining the normal part of the fight

[stiff wren]

world tour but epic

[exotic stag]

also resource management

[eternal escarp]

not everything should be enforced is what i mean, especially when said things are rather not something the average player will ever do

not even the skilled players who play somewhat vanilla

not even most nohitters but thats because of guidelines

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbioIEwKUFw&list=PLU0ig_Z7ewuT8hd4Ha2v0GwpzLFr7KTZA&index=3 oh theres the SCal "cheese"

[fleet bobcat]

lol

[stiff wren]

this isnt cheese this is a masterpiece

[eternal escarp]

(thanks @MrJFL#2278 for giving me points to argue with )

[digital prism]

now thats tasty cheese

[eternal escarp]

anyhow

yeah i think my main points have been

delivered

[digital prism]

yup

[exotic stag]

like JFL's cheeses dont invalidate the entire boss. its just a long consuming effort (and also so much fucking lead)

[digital prism]

theres always a way around fighting a boss

[exotic stag]

if it invalidates the boss its going to go

but if it is not invalidating and the boss is still challenging. it'll probably stay

like DS got a buff with his charge attack being added to counter his weakness to heights

[tranquil folio]

A boss does not have to be uncheesable

[exotic stag]

if it invalidates the entire fight then probably it should be removed.

[tranquil folio]

So
Let's remove every boss from the game then?

[exotic stag]

No

The fucking cheese strat should be removed if it invalidates the boss

[tranquil folio]

How about if you move too far from spawn location the boss enrages with a special anti cheese attack

Idk I suck at balancing
I'm just giving suggs

[shell grotto]

No they honestly shouldnt because the average player wont spend 5+ hours to make an automation. Additionally if you fix bosses bs hoiks and such, you risk messing up the entire fight without using them. It’s best people just understand it’s funny but unintentional, and it’s up to you to not excessively use it because like I said, it’s unintended

[exotic stag]

jfl i meant like

the DS cheese.

(y'know the one where you could just sit at a high point and invalidate everything)

[sleek turret]

hoiks are probably unfixable too

[exotic stag]

hoiks were fixed at one point but then brought back if im right.

[sleek turret]

yes

[shell grotto]

I got lucky, plus it’s outdated also DS is an early boss meant to be somewhat objectively easy outside malice

[eternal escarp]

(compiled my points for me, gaming 😎 )

[cobalt pewter]

they were fixed

but the terraria playerbase is a bunch of literal children

and now it's "feature"

the end

[shell grotto]

^

To be fair it has both cool and hilarious applications

[hollow shell]

@digital prism Your title line should probably be more specific to what you are suggesting (an enrage / anti-cheese, something to discourage flying in one direction to outrun the bosses and their projs)
Just asking to "improve the fight" is unhelpfully broad

[exotic stag]

@ashen warren Formatting and #wiki-discussion

#wiki-discussion exists.

use that

well wiki related things belong in #wiki-discussion not here

(i have no idea why its there anyway)

[spare prawn]

I think part of the issue with exos is that they're the only late late game boss that has an unlimited arena

Also DoG but it has the speed and the laser walls to make up for it

[grim tusk]

And astral pick, but will still take a week even with all mining boosts and zen potions. And not counting all of the prep time to excavate the world and then fill with sloped platforms or rails

Dont boss guides already sort of do that already

Although many are outdated since they quickly get outdated

See: Cal clone if its still for 1.4.5.7

And fucking class setups

[stiff wren]

i thought that all the boss guides are still in 1.4.5.7

[stiff wren]

class setups are so cursed

[grim tusk]

Many are older lol

[stiff wren]

lmfao

[grim tusk]

Before I updated Cal clone to 1.4.5.7 it was on 1.4.4.2 iirc

[violet dagger]

tbh I think we should wait out updating guides until next update

[grim tusk]

Yea lmao

[stiff wren]

?

[violet dagger]

since malice mode no longer having tons of exclusive items is gonna affect a lot

[exotic stag]

yeah

[stiff wren]

oh right

[grim tusk]

Theres maybe some stuff left to document

[exotic stag]

just update the stuff that isnt being changed

(like class setups)

[crude geode]

please go to #wiki-discussion

[stiff wren]

💀

[crude geode]

@unique vector "make dog final boss" meme suggestion

[exotic stag]

"buff him ig"

ah yes.

[west jackal]

he does need a buff though

[unique vector]

death

[exotic stag]

2nd largest worm in the mod
threatening asf to newer players (The majority)
threatening asf on some difficulties
threatening asf in lore.
"pls buff him"

[ashen warren]

literally going againts what i actually said

[west jackal]

I didn’t even know I was fighting him on malice until I checked lmao

[ashen warren]

i am not begging for a buff

[exotic stag]

you are

[ashen warren]

i just said that if it was to be made the final boss

[exotic stag]

"make dog final boss. im serious. buff him"

[ashen warren]

ong you are actually dumb

[crude barn]

2 are actually updated for 1.5: PBG and yharon

[ashen warren]

that is the point of making him the final boss, the lore

[crude barn]

(I had to do them myself lol)

[frail mantle]

DoG wouldn’t fit as the final boss

[crude geode]

the lore is a fucking mess lol

[ashen warren]

elaborate

[crude geode]

even in the current iteration of the lore dog works with/for yharim

[frail mantle]

He’s an overconfident narcissist who is only one of the top soldiers of the actual planned final boss

[ashen warren]

with* more likely

[frail mantle]

It’s for

[ashen warren]

he aint causing trouble so he can get food kind of

is he really directly working for him

[frail mantle]

Yes

[ashen warren]

doesnt seem so to me

[frail mantle]

That’s how he has his funky armor

He acts as one of Yharim’s guard dogs, he gets armor and free food

Yharim is the actual planned final boss cause he’s responsible for 90% of everything wrong with the world in calamity

[finite smelt]

Only 90%

?

[ashen warren]

fr

[crude geode]

Astral Infection wasn’t his doing lol

[crude barn]

(what about xeroc and noxus)

[stiff wren]

(arent those supposed to be superbosses)

[crude geode]

(This is turning into #lore-discussion lol)

[crude barn]

[half sage]

post yharim superbosses, like how scal and exo mechs are currently tied for the spot of final boss but AEW is an optional superboss

[crude barn]

Quick someone make another suggestion before this channel goes too far into the deep end

[tawny garden]

don't quickly make suggestions, you lose quality if you do that

[half sage]

I had a sugg in mind but recent changelogs killed it

[inner lark]

How tf does my thanatos suggestion have 223 stars

[brittle pumice]

very good suggestion

[stiff wren]

Because its a plain good suggestion with no flaws

[exotic stag]

@unborn locust formatting.

also wof is the end of phm boss. also why are you using wulfrum on eow

and cryo?

wulfrum is literally pre boss.

[unborn locust]

Im not using wulfrum

[exotic stag]

wulfrum is pre boss.

[unborn locust]

i know

i think more wulfrum stuff would be cool, but im not using it

[exotic stag]

so why are you using it to fight cryo?

[unborn locust]

there is no reason to use any wulfrum stuff

[exotic stag]

because its PRE BOSS.

thats the point.

[unborn locust]

when did i say that what

[exotic stag]

its a farmable pre boss thing.

[unborn locust]

i esentailly said that itd be cool to have a wulfrum boss so i could get actually useful wulfrum gear to kill EoW or cryogen

[exotic stag]

well no

wulfrum gear is meant to be pre boss

it wont ever be added.

and again: EoW or cryogen are not bosses you are meant to EVER use wulfrum on

[unborn locust]

wulfrum is meant to be pre boss but its litterally useless even pre boss, you can find better gear than wulfrum easily

[unborn locust]

are you trolling

[exotic stag]

No. im being serious

[unborn locust]

[exotic stag]

pre boss to obtain better loot to kill the fucking bosses.

[unborn locust]

ill repeat this once again, im not using wulfrum gear at all
nada

[exotic stag]

Your sugg is saying "give more use to a thing that already has a use."

[earnest raptor]

cryogen?

who the hell uses wulfrum on cryogen?

are you too poor to afford cobalt armor?

[exotic stag]

so yes anyway @unique vector kill new sugg. its just pointless

[unborn locust]

https://tenor.com/view/kermit-the-frog-hanging-kill-gif-13667568

my main point in wulfrum stuff is
needs cool lore stuff

[exotic stag]

It really doesnt.

[unique vector]

you should edit your suggestion to have a more clear understanding of what you're asking

i read it and i cant tell what the point of your suggestion is

[exotic stag]

basically their saying: "give wulfrum boss post wof so i can fight cryogen with wulfrum gear"

[unique vector]

what exactly do you want added? why should it be added? in what way would this benefit balancing and lore more than harming it?

please also format your suggestion properly with a bolded title

once you get all that sorted ill remove the reaction to it, otherwise ill leave it for autodeletion

[unborn locust]

alr doing that rn

[fossil finch]

also there's plenty of pre cryo gear to use

[exotic stag]

for every class infact.

[hollow shell]

Also, your suggestion needs to have a separated title line and elaboration/reasoning below
Separated using a line break, Shift+Enter

Yeah that's.. better

Hm

[unborn locust]

Im still editing

[unique vector]

yeh

[unborn locust]

Accidentally accepted it

[hollow shell]

Alright

[gray nebula]

wtf is that sugg

[hollow shell]

(Iban no don't set a bad example)

[gray nebula]

ok ok sorry i just like the gif

😔

[ashen warren]

😔

[hollow shell]

But uh yeah

[stiff wren]

Cat

[hollow shell]

This sugg

[hollow shell]

Been editing for a while eh

[exotic stag]

yeah

[gray nebula]

not everything needs to have lore.. break free of the terraria mod brainwashing

[unborn locust]

I dont know how to phrase this correctly 🗿

[gray nebula]

ask for a resource sink for wulfrum haha

oh wait haha we already accepted a suggestion about that

[stiff wren]

Granite biome lore when

[fossil finch]

tomorrow

[exotic stag]

make wulfrum coins

[fossil finch]

it's funny because it's not like adding a wulfrum boss would give them lore automatically

dying

[gray nebula]

yes it would

cuz the only possible wulfrum boss would be JOHN WULFRUM

[fossil finch]

holy shit it's true

[exotic stag]

wulfruminium

[stiff wren]

Wdym an item with a tooltip containing 2 lines written from yharim's POV isnt lore

[fossil finch]

anyways an alt currency could actually work but only if it's not actually an upgrade to platinum but an alternate currency that stands apart from the standard system (other mods already do this)
but why would you do that anyway there's no reason

[unborn locust]

It is 🗿

[exotic stag]

just make the wulfrum coins the scal enchant way.

[stiff wren]

Mostly useless?

[exotic stag]

the actual pov: "i took a shit this morning"

ah yes

lore

[unborn locust]

Its not very informative but not having it is less infromative

[fossil finch]

not really

not having it brings up the cool world of theorizing

which is cool

and cool

[exotic stag]

ah yes having the fact yharim took a shit one random morning is not less informative.

[stiff wren]

"I took a fat shit this morning while looking at the wulfrum bots from my window, why do they even exist"
Lore

[hot zephyr]

HOLY SHIT JOHN WULFRUM

[unborn locust]

Sadly cant really theorize that well about something that gets oneshot by anything thats better than gold gear

[exotic stag]

bruh.

wulfrum gear is meant to be like wood.

an upgrade to wood armor thats your first class armor.

[hot zephyr]

you can get wulfrum armor without leaving the starting biome

[exotic stag]

^

[hot zephyr]

it's also been buffed multiple times

[exotic stag]

you can get wulfrum armor without even fucking moving

[hot zephyr]

bonus moment speed, defense, class damage AND a summon slot?

[unborn locust]

Precisely my point, it really doesnt serve a purpose in the game

[crude geode]

Problem is that stuff like snow ruffian exists

[exotic stag]

it does.

[stiff wren]

Wulfrum armour is kinda swaggy ngl

[exotic stag]

it serves a purpose so that you can get your better armors with less trouble.

and also one summon slot is huge early game.

[hot zephyr]

snow ruffian and desert prowler are the exception, not the rule

[unborn locust]

At first its actually not easy to find all the wulfrum bots and youll get lead armor quicker

[stiff wren]

Yeah now you can have TWO braindead squirrels following you

[unborn locust]

[hot zephyr]

[hot zephyr]

I'll hold you to it :p

[gray nebula]

PLANS ™️

plans™️

[exotic stag]

"lead armor quicker"
Boulders dynamite skeletons slimes Hell. Fall damage. fucking water.

[gray nebula]

dw aboute wulfrum

[fossil finch]

no, you can't

[exotic stag]

anyway hear me out: early game minecart called the wulvroom

[fossil finch]

you're just, bad

[unborn locust]

Why would you go that deep for lead armor

[exotic stag]

e x p l o r a t i o n

[fossil finch]

byeah there's,

[gray nebula]

Maybe there's this one guy named john.. and like

[hot zephyr]

why would you want lead armor
it's both more time consuming to get and leas useful

[gray nebula]

hes named john WULFRUM? hence where the name of the robots come from..?

[hot zephyr]

EXACTLY

[unborn locust]

John wilfrum would be sick and i dont know who he is

[fossil finch]

iban actually adding john wulfrum in calamity (real (real ((real

[hot zephyr]

john wulfrum.

[gray nebula]

and.. maybe he MADE THE ROBOTS.. ?? maybe that is the lore?

[crude geode]

Daedalus be like

[gray nebula]

Daedalus is cringe

irrelevant mf

[crude geode]

Immensely

[gray nebula]

john wulfrum? made cool funny robots and eveyrtihng

[hot zephyr]

John Wulfrum is the pinnacle of Calamity lore.

[unborn locust]

Like imo any addition to wulfrum enemies would be sick

[fossil finch]

quickly add wulfrum slime back with another sprite even if it makes no sense

[stiff wren]

Cant tell if this is an inside joke or a thing iban came up with on the spot

[fossil finch]

wulfrum will still be as useful

it's an inside joke

[hot zephyr]

John Wulfrum has been canon for a long time now

Like, a year at least

[exotic stag]

john wulfrum secretly made draedon

[brittle pumice]

xeroc is actually john wulfrum

[fossil finch]

made by homie @tribal flower some time ago
yuh was making it a boss for a content addon so iban designed the homie john wulfrum

now it's canon

[unborn locust]

Imagine how funny it would be if you guys added john wulfrum

[stiff wren]

Wait really?

[fossil finch]

no

[hot zephyr]

when spooktacular became dev he canonized john wulfrum

[stiff wren]

NOOOOOOO

[exotic stag]

april fools joke = johnathan wulfrum

[stiff wren]

WHYYYYYYY

[unborn locust]

Jojo reference

[stiff wren]

I SAID WHYYYY NOT WRYYYY WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

Anyway

[crude geode]

Anyways John Wulfrum aside reject 5 class helmets, return to singular class armors

[gray nebula]

based

[unborn locust]

Why are you so angry at me

[stiff wren]

Reject single class armour return to classless armour

[hot zephyr]

true....

i hate 5-class helmets

[fossil finch]

wulfrum rework will be real in 3 days

[gray nebula]

5 class helmets are the bane of interesting armors

[fossil finch]

(its just the overcharge setbonus

[gray nebula]

why have one cool and unique set bonus that synergizes well with the class its meant for when you can have 5 different hardly noticeable set bonuses!! woo hoo

[exotic stag]

aerialite in a nutshell.

[crude geode]

Auric Armor vs Original Final Terraria Armors

[hot zephyr]

hey auric is slightly more interesting now

[fossil finch]

can't wait for true auric armor or whatever

[crude geode]

Very slightly

[stiff wren]

1.33% yharim drop

[hot zephyr]

the game is now divided along "this class has GSD or is shit"

[gray nebula]

[hot zephyr]

i HATE summoner and mage

STUPID classes.

[crude geode]

Unique opinion

[stiff wren]

I hate mana i hate mana

[hot zephyr]

i am BIASED towards melee and will artificially bump up the stats and forge balance sheets

[fossil finch]

anyways uh uh
yeah i sure hope the Calamity Developers Develop Cool Things Into The Calamity Mod Umh yes mhm mhm

[unborn locust]

Real quick, what language are terraria mods coded in

[gray nebula]

c#

[fossil finch]

C#

[unborn locust]

Noooooo oh well

[exotic stag]

c#

[crude geode]

Personally think that Wulfrum should be made into a single class armor so we can just leave classless to the base pre armors

[gray nebula]

yes i agree

what if we developed cool things and made it impossible for the wiki ppl to properly wiki it because of how complicated it is

fun challenge for the family

[hot zephyr]

many agree....

[stiff wren]

But but but but rogue stealth!!!

[fossil finch]

personally i think wulfrum overcharge setbonus

[exotic stag]

just make an armorset that is literally 60 different armorsets

[hot zephyr]

wiki "people"

[exotic stag]

okay but hear me out

[hot zephyr]

back to the shadow realm, Altix

[exotic stag]

a summoner armor that allows you to control weak robotic entities to fight for you

[fossil finch]

give the classless armor stealth

👍

[exotic stag]

(not like a summon itself or a usmmon minion. you literally just fucking control them)

[stiff wren]

Right

Thats a thing

[crude geode]

This is still the silliest shit to me

[stiff wren]

That would be like so bad

[gray nebula]

wym by "controlling"

[exotic stag]

converting them to well

like an npc

[crude geode]

“Classless…except for this one class we added. We forgor 💀 “

[exotic stag]

not like a merchant or shit where you can talk to them

just literally make them shoot projectiles or some shit

[gray nebula]

whats the difference between that and minions as projectiles

[stiff wren]

Least complicated calamity mod suggestion

[gray nebula]

[exotic stag]

you can control more then the summon limit

and also

[hot zephyr]

jacob and esau

in terraria

[exotic stag]

robotices

[fossil finch]

i think unfair wants like

what ian said

jacob and esau in terraria

[exotic stag]

i dont know what those two are

[stiff wren]

The finding of peesack characters i think

[fossil finch]

or just you going and remote controlling the little robots but you'd stay still and that'd suck for every practical purpose

[frail mantle]

worst character in the binding of isaac

[fossil finch]

second best*

🚎

[exotic stag]

nah i meant like you control them and they die over time while shooting shit.

[fossil finch]

that's just a summon but worse?

[frail mantle]

instead of controlling one normal character you control two underpowered characters at once

[fossil finch]

they're not underpowered though

[exotic stag]

nah nah nah hear me out. you can control infinite of them

[fossil finch]

that'd still suck big balls

[frail mantle]

i don't like them therefore they are

[fossil finch]

damn

facts don't care about my feelings so

[exotic stag]

60 different wulfrum droids versus draedon. just imagine

[fossil finch]

the wulfrum robots dying in their 30 second max life timer

[crude geode]

Looking at this suggestion it gets more and more wild

[exotic stag]

yeah but you get 60 more dps

[gray nebula]

holy shit

that sugg is so janded

crying so fucking hard

whats the lore significance of the ark of the cosmos

what's the lore significance of the scoria ore

[exotic stag]

name their "Identical looks"

other then the color and eyeballs

[violet dagger]

whats the lore significance of great sand shark

[gray nebula]

i mean

[violet dagger]

(impossible question)

[fossil finch]

tbf scoria has no lore significance BUT it's cool volcanic rock or whatever idk don't care

[hot zephyr]

what's the lore significant of daawnlight spirit origin

[gray nebula]

they clearly are branded to be the same thing

[exotic stag]

also down here

wtf does you being bad at cryo mean we need a wulfrum boss?

[hot zephyr]

what's the lore significance of aquatic scourge? uhhh it's a wet worm?????

[crude geode]

Even Yharim has a thing for melee spam

[fossil finch]

tbf killin as and unlocking t2 acid rain has some logic behind it, it's also ds. it's also a consequence to

[exotic stag]

whats the lore significance of scal? all i see is calamity and thats just a reference.

[violet dagger]

what's the lore significance of

[hot zephyr]

Danny made it

that's the significance

[exotic stag]

btw can we like. fix the uh resprite doc since scal is kinda done now?

oh wait

nvm im stoopid

i was reading it wrong

~~i suck at reading colors and memorization

[crude geode]

@unborn locust
See above nonsense but for clarification
Just because you struggle with a boss doesn’t mean we should add an entire new boss. It falls both under the high effort don’t and under bad reasoning. Additionally, not every single thing in calamity has lore tied to it, but the Wulfrum robots are there for you to theorize about. First “paragraph” is still really questionable as well.

[exotic stag]

also yeah uh

you want an enemy to be called

"rover"

literally

[gray nebula]

I'd never hurt rover

😭 such an oomfie

[full pivot]

hydrotherm vent rock or smth

[exotic stag]

literally the guy wants an enemy just called "Rover"

ping rover to tell him that hes being appreciated in a sugg

[full pivot]

also holy shit this is the first time i've seen a sugg get both invalid reactions

[exotic stag]

well the dude gave up

[honest isle]

[exotic stag]

what is the lore thou

[stiff wren]

The lore is uh
Woman

[tribal flower]

Can confirm. John did it

[orchid turtle]

That was the worst way and reason to make that suggestion. However wulfrum robots exist for no reason

Like there are so many other people that could have created them

Why are they not Daedalus creations, give that man something to work with lore wise

[grim tusk]

Braelor

[orchid turtle]

Because right now you get an ore that unlocks for no logical reason for his lore

Thats it

He was an inventor, honestly just change the color pallet and say he made them

Fair point with Braelor

He needs new items or too be just written out of the lore

Statis has a million items, and Braelor has an armor set.

[grim tusk]

#suggestions-discussion message

[orchid turtle]

Armor set that doesn't even see use really

[grim tusk]

Reaver hasnt been Braelor armor for a loooooong time

Same for asgard’s valor which used to be Braelor’s shield

[orchid turtle]

Have to get a degree to understand the lore at this point

How about this for a suggestion

[grim tusk]

Also Daedalus and Silva need more stuff than armor

Oh well silva at least has abyss related lore stuff

[orchid turtle]

Lore related stuff but nothing in game

I've been saying that Silva needs a related item in the Abyss.

[exotic stag]

pulse bow

[fossil finch]

Silva gets about two blocks and there's a planned thingy for later anyways

[orchid turtle]

Can't argue with that

Is there a planned rework for cryonic ore?

Because it makes no logical sense\

[fossil finch]

In any case what I'm seeing in your sugg is a lack of actual reason

No

[orchid turtle]

I'm saying the lore and gameplay don't match up

And no, they don't always have to match

[fossil finch]

yes that's called ludonarrative dissonance and is impossible to get rid of entirely, you also should explain why it's bad though

[orchid turtle]

But I'm literally wearing a important characters armor with no explanation as to why I got it the way I did

[fossil finch]

there's been ideas for cryonic thrown around since long ago but nothing from devs thematically or obtainment wise, no

[orchid turtle]

Honestly, it would make more sense for Daedalus armor to be prehardmode and replace it with something else for cryonic

Not values or bonuses

The idea of the armor and the name

[fossil finch]

nooo that'd suck balls because it'd require adding more things

[orchid turtle]

Because those shards in the ground or whatever have no ties to permafrost or reason to be sealed

[fossil finch]

and balancing a whole lot, too

[orchid turtle]

Just rename wulfram

[exotic stag]

wulf ram.

ah yes

that very well known RAM company

wulf.

[orchid turtle]

Makes more sense then what it is currently\

[exotic stag]

actually that gives me an ideaaa

[orchid turtle]

Lore wise at least

[fossil finch]

Not really?

[orchid turtle]

How does cryogen having it make more sense?

[fossil finch]

You're kinda just complicating it
The only issue with cryonic is that it spawn after cryogen
You're very much just complicating the issue

[orchid turtle]

I'm trying to figure out why Daedalus as a character exists then

[fossil finch]

because his lore was created 4 years ago when it was cool to give armors random lore

[orchid turtle]

Because if that's his only in game stuff then just rename the item set and remove Daedalus as a character

[fossil finch]

Don't read too deep onto it because his whole existence wasn't made coherently

the lore back then wasn't written to be the best history ever written it was written because armors having lore was cool, don't read too much into it

retheming daedalous would be an ok option but that requires sprites and they don't grow out of trees

[orchid turtle]

And my suggestion was to remove or improve minor characters in the mod because they are convoluted or have a lack of content in the mod

I don't even see why he's a character

[fossil finch]

Imo you're kinda overblowing the issues that brings though

God can you read

[orchid turtle]

I get that that was a while ago

[unique vector]

tl;dr suggestions discussion is bickering about old calamity lore

[hot zephyr]

these suggestions need to be don'ts until lore is more concrete

[fossil finch]

.

[hot zephyr]

Soon™️

:)