suggestions-discussion

[grim tusk]

spider wins in dmg, daedalus in defense, forbidden is middle

[balmy folio]

Also ur talking about spider armor making it a boss rush to ml

Well yeah it is.

Calamity items are op

[grim tusk]

hm is not a boss rush lmao

theres so much to do there outside of bosses

[balmy folio]

But hes saying that it makes it pretty much just rushing to ml

[grim tusk]

kinda wish post-ML got the new stronger ememies treatment like hardmode did when it was introduced in vanilla 1.1
(the only new enemies are the profaned ones (hallow and hell), some phantoplasm (underground, caverns and dungeon) ones and the elusive draconic swarmers (jungle), what happened to the rest of the biomes?)

[balmy folio]

Also pretty much EVERY FUCKING CLASS has to use the luminite armor sets post ml.

Untill you kill providence

There is just no point in nerfing it

Especially since tmodloader is running 1.3 and in vanilla 1.3 you get absolutely crushed as a summoner WITH SPIDER ARMOR

[grim tusk]

(OoA t3 (valhalla moment), Plaguebringer, Beetle or astral but who tf uses those outside of niche setups)

[sleek turret]

hmm yes valhalla armor

and also astral

[balmy folio]

I think pretty much everyone replaces stardust chest peice with vahala knight.

[grim tusk]

or stardust helm with plaguebringer

[glossy reef]

That's actually what i did

[glossy reef]

Also i second this, post ml needs more new mobs

[balmy folio]

Also in the suggestion it has one of the DONTS

[hollow shell]

Future™️

[balmy folio]

"Any suggestion asking to make vanilla weapons or equipment deal/boost rogue damage"

[grim tusk]

too specific as well

also rogue has little compared to summoner in armors

just forbidden (circlet), titan heart (which is relatively new), the 3 calamity ore armors and umbraphile

[balmy folio]

It also breaks the "Any suggestions to remove Calamity's non-linearity changes." Dont

[hollow shell]

Wait what are you talking about

[glossy reef]

True but calamity ore armors w/ helmets are more viable for rogue than summoner imo

[grim tusk]

i do not see any of this

[grim tusk]

hydrothermic is overshadowed by vanilla armors, plague reaper, plaguebringer and umbraphile (may no longer be the case with the buffs its getting)

also reaver is getting overhauled and daedalus possibly will in the future

[hollow shell]

Reaver yes but iunno bout Daedalus

[balmy folio]

How do you not see it?

Hes pretty much saying summoner shouldnt be able to just rush all the bosses with spider armor and that its "unfair"

[hollow shell]

That's

[balmy folio]

And shouldnt be able to skip other armor sets

[hollow shell]

that's not removing Calamity's non-linearity changes

[balmy folio]

Im not done

[hollow shell]

That's just nerfing an overpowered set

[grim tusk]

yea not removing non linearity

[balmy folio]

Hes saying that you shouldnt be able to fight the cultists with spider armor

[hollow shell]

He's not suggesting to remove Eidolon Tablet from the game because you can kill Cultist as soon as you obtain Spider

[balmy folio]

Which you wouldnt because spider armor isnt even that good

[grim tusk]

spider armor overpowered my ass

literally balanced

[balmy folio]

Spider armor legit instantly gets overshadowed as soon as you beat Calamitas clone.

Plus of course ur gonna be able to rush the bosses, unless ur in revengence mode calamitys items basically disintegrate vanilla bosses.

Like i beat moon lord in like 1 or 2 trys ON MY FIRST EVER CALAMITY PLAY THROUGH. But i still haven't beat providence

[grim tusk]

heck he seems like a new player

he probably just min maxed dmg with summon slot stacking (that will die in 1.5) making spider look pretty op (when it isnt the culprit)

which somewhat works on rev (bosses like PBG and Old Duke (which are the bosses noobs in Cal-talk whine about the most) will absolutely demolish players like this)

try that on dmode and you get deleted (this is why balancing or at least getting decent mobility is important)

[balmy folio]

And i fully converted to ranged from summoner because i was getting bored out of my mind

Because pre 1.4 summoner just isn't fun

Especially since calamity forces you to not use another weapon as summoner

[hollow shell]

(You're gettin off topic a bit RNGesus)

[balmy folio]

So why would you nerf a set that isn't even that good.

When the only point of pre 1.4 summoner is to just grow a stronger and bigger army of summons to do your bidding

Thats the only fun part about pre 1.4 summoner

[grim tusk]

summoner can: use debuffing/classless weapons, borealis bomber, sentry spam, micromanagement, etc. Making summoner pretty enjoyable; saying it forces you to not use other stuff is just wrong.

[balmy folio]

And once you get to a stage of progression where everything is stupid strong it loses steam because you just start to have to sit there and try over and over again to beat a boss

Which would require you to just sit there and have ur summons do stuff

[grim tusk]

and as Rover said lets return to talking about the suggestion

[balmy folio]

So if you nerf spider armor it would get really boring

Because ur gonna be trying to beat a boss over and over

Since you just nerfed a already not very good summon set.

[hollow shell]

...

[balmy folio]

It just doenst make since to nerf spider armor since it gets overshadowed by other summon sets.

[hollow shell]

Okay yes we get it would you like to ping @forest vapor now

[grim tusk]

anyways... shouldnt this suggestion be an ❗ ?
we discussed already that it is very specific

[hollow shell]

It's not that specific

It's a bit of a mess but I do not think specificity is an issue

[balmy folio]

It asks to make vanilla items to boost/do rouge damage.

[grim tusk]

also im suprised #suggestions-voting message didnt get an ❗ , the suggestion is basically turning DoG into Eternity mode destroyer

[hollow shell]

Where does it say that?

I see him asking to make summoner variants of rogue armor sets

[balmy folio]

Ah my mistake

[grim tusk]

umbraphile summoner armor would be weird, and very redundant

also how would you translate rogue's more projectiles setbonuses into summoner

[balmy folio]

Also rouge already doesn't have very many sets.

[hollow shell]

Indeed, this is why I think the suggestion is a mess
Because he is actually concerned about the existing summoner options being underpowered compared to Spider
But he wrote a sugg based around adding more options for summoner, despite summoner already having plenty of options

[balmy folio]

He also didnt mention the fact that there are plenty of armor sets besides spider

Such as plaugebrinder hydrothermic

Spooky armor

[hollow shell]

"Spooky set is somewhat viable along with hydrothermic," in the suggestion

[balmy folio]

Wait so hes saying spooky armor isn't viable

Both hydro and spooky armor are completely viable on there own

[hollow shell]

He literally says that it's somewhat viable

[balmy folio]

But hes acting like somehow spider armor is more viable then spooky/hydro

What the fuck does he mean thst hydro and spooky are for "exploring" incase you missed some important but not necessary fights?

[hollow shell]

Indeed, this is the premise of his suggestion

Dark_Greed thinks/found that Spider armor was performing better than other options that come after Spider armor

[balmy folio]

But thats simply just not true

Spider armor has worse stats then spooky

[hollow shell]

This suggestion would probably be (very) difficult to program, Seldom
But I completely understand the motivation

[grim tusk]

.

[balmy folio]

And hydro is just objectively better then both

And plaugebringer is 1000 times better then all of them.

The fucking bees alone can do decent dps

[hollow shell]

Alright

You can probably stop talking about it until Dark_Greed arrives, RNGesus

[grim tusk]

seems like this is getting nowhere

[hollow shell]

You're complaining somewhat ineffectually because we are not the writers of the suggestion

[quartz elbow]

Yeah I thought it might X|

[balmy folio]

Anyways i gtg

[grim tusk]

changing topic
Would suggesting better rewards (purely vanity, like trophies or smth) for Armageddon would be a good idea or should i wait for 1.5 Armageddon to drop to make the suggestion

[hollow shell]

Probably wait

You'd have more reasoning when 1.5 releases

Cuz in the current release Arma is pretty powerful

[grim tusk]

yea Arma farming makes grinding irrelevant

[cobalt pewter]

For the last sugg

Might be possibly hard to code in

Even then, MP exists

If something works on sp the first time, there's a 99.99% chance that it won't work initially on mp

[crude geode]

@hollow shell Should the summon suggestion be exclaimed, considering spider armor is in no way better than spooky and is fine in comparison to Fathom Swarmer, and next update gives early hardmode a lot of changes?

also melee/rogue is dying so making summoner/rogue would be weird

also also it ignores Plaguebringer armor being a post-golem set, as well as the fact that Mage is the class that doesn't get a post-golem set, not summoner.

[hollow shell]

Probably should be exclamed yeah
@forest vapor Unless you can more sufficient evidence/proof that Spider outclasses all the armors above it (Plaguebringer and Spooky surpass its stats in every way, more slots and more damage, more defense and move speed too)

Fathom has 1 less slot and 3% less damage compared to Spider, but it is way tankier and has water benefits (for what they're worth)

[crude geode]

it actually doesn't have less damage in water lol

[hollow shell]

Yeah but

in water

[grim tusk]

fathom also has very broken bug atm (which has been fixed on test versions according to Piky)

[sand umbra]

water arenas are a task in and of themselves even with BWB

[crude geode]

if you're using fathom you're gonna be using it's water benefits so you can be tanky summoner

summoner has more armor set variation than ranged tbfh

[grim tusk]

than rogue even

rogue just has boring "more projectiles"

[sand umbra]

is there a word for assuming that everyone's going to do something just because veteran players do it

because if there is I want to use it here

[grim tusk]

no one will make a water arena lmao

not even nohitters unless like the boss is really bad on defiled lmao

ravhager

[sand umbra]

with all due respect most people are just going to see that Fathom Swarmer is an upgrade to Spider and be like "ooo, this looks effective, I'll go get it real quick"

[grim tusk]

^

[crude geode]

true

does summoner even have a associated summon that goes with fathom, like ravens and spooky, or spiders with spiders

[hollow shell]

Herring

[sand umbra]

...teeeechnically Dreadmine?

[crude geode]

[sand umbra]

like technically Herring and Dreadmine I guess

[grim tusk]

dreadmine is a funny sentry

[crude geode]

tbh that's honestly kind of a big deal

[sand umbra]

but of course there aren't really a lot of class-specific options obtained from the Abyss post-Clonamitas

[grim tusk]

can nuke shit but like rarely as fuck

[crude geode]

untrue

[sand umbra]

name 3 items for a single class obtained from the Abyss
multiclass options don't count

[crude geode]

megalodon, triploon, flak kraken

[hollow shell]

melee melee melee melee melee

[sand umbra]

and I will dock points for choosing Warrior because the broadsword count in Calamity is through the roo-

.

[grim tusk]

flak kraken, megalodon and god dammit i got sniped

[sand umbra]

okay so

genuinely

I forgot Triploon exists

[grim tusk]

theres also archerfish

[sand umbra]

no Archerfish is the Shadow Chest weapon

[grim tusk]

still obtained in abyss

[sand umbra]

...mfw I forgot to specify "post-Clonamitas" in my prompt

god damnit Exact Words why have you forsaken me

[hollow shell]

You did a few messages up so

[crude geode]

anyways back to my original point

[grim tusk]

melee and ranger specially get the most items out of abyss the whole game

[sand umbra]

e

[hollow shell]

Rogue also gets 2 weps 1 accessory

[sand umbra]

yeah Rogue gets an accessory that's kinda necessary for a later crafting tree

[grim tusk]

4 (3 cuz the Reaper is moved) weapons the whole game, 2 accessories (Ink bomb and mirror)

[crude geode]

every summoner set in hardmode has a specific non-sentry minion associated with it, spider spiders, tiki tiki boys, spooky armor gets ravens, Plaguebringer gets waifu simulator/fuel cell bundle, and stardust the two stardust weapons.

except for fathom swarmer

which gets a sentry

[hollow shell]

(Plaguebringer also gets Fuel Cell Bundle)

[crude geode]

that too yeah

[hollow shell]

I spose you could suggest a new summon wep get added that's in the theme of Fathom Swarmer

[sand umbra]

Plaguebringer gets waifu simulator
why are you like this

[grim tusk]

sad OoA noises

[hollow shell]

Oh right that's your item lmao

(Also Spider gets a sentry too)

[sand umbra]

e

Fuel Cell Bundle suits Plaguebringer as a set much better imo

whether that's me actually enjoying Fuel Cell Bundle more despite it being much simpler or it's just my own bias against my item talking is anyone's guess, frankly

[grim tusk]

fuel cell bundle is one of the few minions able to compete with butterflies pre-ML

the others being Cells and Godspawn

and i prefer the more dynamic feel of fuel cell

[sand umbra]

Dragon is not present because it's been nerfed into the core of the earth

[grim tusk]

xeno has ok dmg but butterflies are just broken lmao

[sand umbra]

why are butterflies

[grim tusk]

tempest is not present cuz its ass

[sand umbra]

Tempest has never been good which is upsetting because conceptually it's one of the cooler summons

[grim tusk]

anyways back to topic

new summon to go with Fathom swarmer right?

[crude geode]

yeah

[grim tusk]

probably some deep sea animal like angler fish, goblin shark, squid, octopus, or smth

[sand umbra]

consider the following:

Herring Staff upgrade

[grim tusk]

magic conch upgrade

[crude geode]

Everything must be an upgrade™️

[sand umbra]

death

[crude geode]

Angler Fish would be pog considering Fathom Swarmer is already themed after one

[sand umbra]

literally the only Abyss Chest weapon that has an upgrade is BOF and that upgrade is Dragon Pow

(I'm like 20% certain Archerfish is also supposed to go into Megalodon at some point in the future but please correct me on that if I'm wrong)

[crude geode]

#suggestions-voting message
Btw 200

[grim tusk]

yea iirc that was gonna be the case

[sand umbra]

I feel like that was supposed to be a thing but I have no idea if it actually stayed a thing

or if it's going to be a thing in the future

I have not been following 1.5 development particularly closely for a while so forgive me if my knowledge is a little sparse

[grim tusk]

prolly in great rebalance pt 2 or smth

[zenith hazel]

bot's down, notified amber

[crude geode]

how is that a rebalance

[grim tusk]

For 1.5, the testers are going to go through every tier in the game and evaluate the balance of every weapon, starting with Post-Moon Lord (due to the stat flattening).

[crude geode]

I’m aware

[hollow shell]

You could prolly emphasize the thematic difference between Dreadmine and Fathom too, instead of just it being a sentry

[sand umbra]

if I remember Megalodon was supposed to inherit Archerfish and thus also inherit Archerfish's water streams or whatever the fuck they were

[crude geode]

But how is changing the recipe of something rebalance

Unless you like

Move it in progression

[sand umbra]

it's not just a recipe change I fondly recall there being mechanical changes to Megalodon to go with it

[grim tusk]

im guessing stealth rogue is gonna be busted as fuck late pre-hm and hm with the rework

[sand umbra]

the problem is that I don't know if I'm remembering this correctly and I don't know if it's happening for 1.5

[grim tusk]

i wonder if they will make the arsenal weapons upgradeable at some point

[sand umbra]

...mmmm I wanna go off on a mini-tangent about Arsenal weps using that as a segue but I want to at least mostly stay on the subject of Abyss bullshit

ae

[grim tusk]

like gauss dagger (also nerf that shit lmao) going into another arsenal sword; or tracking disk going into something like system bane

[sand umbra]

isn't Gauss Dagger's main downside the fact that it is the size of a peanut

[grim tusk]

yes but when used decently, oh boy

[sand umbra]

that requires using it right

how many people are gonna look at a sword that small and know how to use it well

[cobalt pewter]

It's gonna be buffed in size again

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[sand umbra]

literally why

[cobalt pewter]

So idk its real niche

[grim tusk]

but the on hit effect is gonna get nerfed to oblivion

[sand umbra]

that's like the only thing keeping it balanced mate

[grim tusk]

check Xyk's clips in nohit

[sand umbra]

if it's not the size of a damn peanut you have to make it not broken

[cobalt pewter]

They gave it autoturn as well, making constant on hit effect significantly harder to land to me

Idk

[grim tusk]

its prolly best to save the arsenal weapons thing for after 1.5 now that i think more about it

[crude geode]

mhm, considering rebalancing

[sand umbra]

I'll come back to it once 1.5 drops

[cobalt pewter]

Ye

[forest vapor]

meteorite armor got nerfed, and its a vanilla set

rip slots then

well i mean you can craft cool new armor, but you won't cuz spider is enough for ml even

[eternal escarp]

i mean, it can be enough yes

[forest vapor]

pregolem cultist lmao

[eternal escarp]

is it better, is the question

since from what i remember spooky and plaguebringer are 100% better then spider

[hollow shell]

They are statistically objectively better

[forest vapor]

well i fought calamitas, king slayer 3, astrum crab thing and scourge in this armor, all of them were easy(i spent 3 days on calamitas cuz i didnt have a proper arena but still)

[eternal escarp]

so, you used spider until pre golem ish?

thats pretty normal if you want more damage and less defense

[forest vapor]

that's the point, most classes can't just beat ml in palladium armor, and summoner can, and why would you want fathom and hydrothermic sets when you have stardust?

[eternal escarp]

although spooky wouldve been a better choice byeah

thats, not exactly true

you can beat ml in frost, forbidden or whatever

hell you can do it in statigel

its 100% not advised but it is 100% possible for every class

[forest vapor]

i was sleeping but ok

[forest vapor]

spider\spooky\fathom\hydrothermic\daedalus\some post golem sets i forgot lol\another set which you would probably craft after plaguebringer pre-ml fight - 8 sets total afaik

cobalt\palladium\mythril\orihalcum\titanium\adamantite\hallowed\daedalus\cryonic\perennial\probably something from scoria exists too, i spent it on life alloy\ - 11 sets, and i must have forgottent some of them

[eternal escarp]

spooky is post plant, fathom isbpost cal, daedalus is post cryogen

[forest vapor]

well plague set is better than spider, but you can easily get stardust which is even stronger with just spider

[eternal escarp]

thats covering the entire hm, not every single one atv the time

[crude geode]

nobody uses early hm ore sets (but they will next update, and summoner helms are being added) and there's still progression to hardmode summoner sets.

[forest vapor]

i used spider till moonlord

[eternal escarp]

out of choice

its not the best armor you could get

[frozen hornet]

How would you get stardust pre ML

[crude geode]

your loss then, cuz you're losing out on damage by not using spooky

[eternal escarp]

exactly yeah

you chose to stick with an armor from post wof

when you had a thousand better choices

the fact it was enough doesnt mean its godlike

[forest vapor]

i mean actually playing the game not nursebox

[eternal escarp]

because, you can litteraly do the entire game armorless if you really want, does that mean armoless is overpowered

[crude geode]

no, but it means nohitting is op

[eternal escarp]

skill (and a month load of time for each post ML boss) is indeed a good thing

[forest vapor]

finally, no searching for spider nest anymore

[crude geode]

byeah this is what you really need to respond to #suggestions-discussion message

[forest vapor]

waiting with patience

[forest vapor]

yes i could get more armor but why when stardust

plaguebringer is a bit weaker

[eternal escarp]

to make your life easier?

[forest vapor]

its easy like it is

[eternal escarp]

plaguebringer is weaker then stardust because its a tier below

thats how tiering works

[forest vapor]

defeat ml in spider

[eternal escarp]

by that logic, spider is weaker then stardust
why get spider?

[frozen hornet]

Ah yes defeat ml in spider

[forest vapor]

cuz you can't beat ml in prehardmode armor

[frozen hornet]

Why not beat DoG in spider and get god slayer,it's clesrly better than stardust

[forest vapor]

i mean technically nurseboxing is possible

[eternal escarp]

you can

[forest vapor]

but by actually playing with minor skill issues like mine

[eternal escarp]

if you so wish

thats the thing

its not advised, but its possible

[forest vapor]

it's well

[eternal escarp]

if you want an easier time, you upgrade your gear

[forest vapor]

much harder

than spider

[eternal escarp]

yeah, but its possible

[forest vapor]

nohitting scal is possible

[eternal escarp]

so thats why i dont understand the logic here

yeah, it is

[forest vapor]

but can YOU do it?

or can I?

[eternal escarp]

technically, yes

if you put enough time into it

[crude geode]

if people can no-hit ml they can do it with (most likely) any armor set

[forest vapor]

are you ready to spend this much time?

[eternal escarp]

i am already doing so

so, yeah

but thats not the point here

[forest vapor]

yes, im talking about most of the people who can't nohit ml

[crude geode]

You fail to acknowledge the fact that there is progression in hardmode summoner, which is why your suggestion is invalid

[eternal escarp]

^

there are better options then spider, you just chose to ignore them

[forest vapor]

that progression is unnecessary, like netherite armor in minecraft

[frozen hornet]

What

[eternal escarp]

and by that logic

so is spider

[forest vapor]

other classes cant do what summoner can, thats what i was saying for entire discussion

[eternal escarp]

it exists, and it is better
its upon you to use it or not

[frozen hornet]

then does that mean spider is unnecessary because bee armor exists

[eternal escarp]

they absolutely can

you can use statigel until ML, and thats almost a fact at this point

[forest vapor]

ok deleted it

[eternal escarp]

every class can skip armor sets if they wish

[forest vapor]

summoner with spider is easier than melee with titanium or even hallowed

[eternal escarp]

easier for you, maybe

it can be harder for someone else

[forest vapor]

oh wait

[eternal escarp]

and easier on the other side

[forest vapor]

we are going into discussion like "summoner is op cuz minions do everything for you"

[eternal escarp]

no?

[forest vapor]

@quartz elbow, i think this will break "economics" of the mod a bit. what's the point of a rare drop if can just make it a common drop? i think we could have a potion which would increase drop chances though

[frozen hornet]

Malice mode partially solves this

[forest vapor]

yeah

[eternal escarp]

for RiV's and Legendary items (and a bit of items added to these categories), yeah

the rest are untouched for the most part

[frozen hornet]

I think he meant for other drops like weapon drops from bosses

[forest vapor]

oh this could be done ofc

[frozen hornet]

Like being mage and constantly getting weapons for every class except for mage

[eternal escarp]

i think something similiar was suggested once?

i dont exactly remember

[forest vapor]

killing wof 23 times for summoner emblem wasnt fun

at least i got a bugged guide

by the way

does the proficiency meter display minion slots?

we could have an accesory which does that

[eternal escarp]

im pretty sure it does?

and if not

theres enough outside mods that do it ig

if you want a fast solution

[forest vapor]

wait literally same problem

but with mage

[forest vapor]

yeah i'm gonna check

[eternal escarp]

in this case
jungle armor is actually pretty strong from what i remember, although i think statigel beats it later

[forest vapor]

isn't statigel hardmode?

[eternal escarp]

and jungle armor does pretty much invalidate the rest due to it being stronger then robes, meteor and maybe eaven aerospec iirc

statigel is post SG

a step before HM

[forest vapor]

oh

well it has more defense

but again, jungle is enough for wof

and then you have titanium

[eternal escarp]

it is, but statigel does beat it im pretty sure

[forest vapor]

it does

set bonus is a bit strange

[eternal escarp]

which means that after SG, the problem that the sugg is showing resides

[quartz elbow]

I disagree. If it’s balanced right, then it is only made a common drop through an inordinate amount of grinding. However, if you do that much grinding and don’t get the drop, then at least you’re more likely to get it the next time, as opposed to how it is right now, where you are still where you were when you started grinding, except it’s a few hours later.

[tardy smelt]

referring to #suggestions-posting statistically speaking this already kind of happens

because the more often you satisfy the conditions for a random event to have a chance of happening, like say- it turns night and the blood moon can already start- the more likely it is to happen because it has had more opportunities of happening

practical example: in 1.4 the Shadow Joustling Lance has a 1/125 chance to drop from a Giant Cursed Skull in the post-Plantera dungeon

Say I want it really badly despite joustling lances being absolute crap- the more Cursed Skulls I kill the greater the chance that one of them will drop the item I seek

it took about 125 cursed skulls to get the weapon I seeked, but not because it drops guaranteed after killing 125 cursed skulls- but because having satisfied the conditions for a 1 in 125 event to happen 125 times the chances are very, very small none of those will yield results simply due to the amount of opportunities presented

[shy pine]

That sounds cool

So it’s 100% drop rate on the 125th?

And 124/125 on the 124th

[tardy smelt]

no, that's not what I said

[eternal escarp]

that is not how RNG works, yeah

although i think i get what you mean

[tardy smelt]

it's near guaranteed to happen

[eternal escarp]

technically yeah

[tardy smelt]

the chances are immense

[eternal escarp]

obviously, the more you grind, the more chances you will get said item

[tardy smelt]

^

[eternal escarp]

(that is basically just, logic to me)

[tardy smelt]

similarly to that if you kill 10 000 abyss enemies you're very likely to have one drop a Halibut Cannon and destroy 90% of the mod's progression

[eternal escarp]

ye

thats how luck based things work

[shy pine]

Yeah but you killed 10,000 abyss enemies so

[eternal escarp]

and each kill had a 1/10000~ chance to occur

[shy pine]

Exactly

[eternal escarp]

so you roll a dice every time

and you had more chances for it to occur

then say, rolling the dice only 3 times

thats basically what they say, is what i understood

[shy pine]

Yeah but it’s not ‘destroying 90% of calamity’s progression’ if you grinded hours for it on purpose

[tardy smelt]

oh it is!

[shy pine]

You DECIDED to destroy the progression

[tardy smelt]

you just wasted hours of your time to lose a gigantic part of the challenge of the mod

[shy pine]

It was YOUR decision

[tardy smelt]

^

[eternal escarp]

i mean, yeah it is your decision
still destroys progression, the time doesnt mean anything in this case

[shy pine]

It isn’t the problem with your boosted drop rate, it’s the players choice

[tardy smelt]

also returning to the joustling lance story- in a subsequent playthrough I got it like- after three kills

by accident

trying to get a paladin shield lmao

[quartz elbow]

If you have killed 125 giant cursed skulls, you have a 63.36% chance (1 - (1 - 1/125)^125) for at least one shadow jousting lance to have already dropped. This is very far from a near guarantee with immense chances. Let’s say that you don’t get the drop (which is really not very far of a stretch). You are not a single percentage point closer to getting the item. If you decide to keep grinding, the next 125 enemies you grind have the exact same chance to drop at least one item. Grinding 250 enemies does improve the odds, but not when you already know that the past 125 didn’t drop the item. For more explanation, Google “gambler’s fallacy”.

If we gradually increase the odds, it should help move things along for the unlucky.

[tardy smelt]

I do agree with the suggestion tho

[shy pine]

Guys, so I found out that on the official among us website, there's a bunch of official rules on there. One of the rules states that if you are kicked from the game, you need to know who kicked you, because technically being kicked could mean that you're just very good a the game, and because of this, the game wants to know who kicked you. For more explanation, google Among Us Rule 34.

[tardy smelt]

I never said I grinded for exactly 125 mathematically knowing it would be likely to drop after 125 cursed skulls

instead I just killed every cursed skull I found and it just happened to drop around the 125th one

neither was I basing my theory solely off that fact

in the end uh I just study a very different branch of mathematics than chance

[quartz elbow]

Lol I suppose I shouldn’t tell people to Google a specific term

[tardy smelt]

at least the base principle of my idea, that the more you grind for things the more likely the thing you want it to drop is to drop

still stands

[forest vapor]

look

this was the chance of getting summoner emblem after some number of kills

and i didnt get it

you still believe in luck?

[tardy smelt]

no

just chance

(:

[pine star]

yes
Think about all the times you got a rare item early

[forest vapor]

i mean, next kill after this one game me the item, but still

[forest vapor]

don't remember such cases

[tardy smelt]

it's all about chance

[pine star]

well that's a people's brains problem

People's brains inherently remember negatives more

[forest vapor]

i still remember that very cringe thing which happened to me when i was 3 y. o.

[tardy smelt]

inb4 I had to judge a contest of mario fangame bosses and I had to replay a certain entry a dozen times in order to see all of its attacks

[forest vapor]

and i don't remember history paragraph which i read yesterday

[unique reef]

i'm really sad because i have a bunch of weapon ideas, but i can't suggest them

[tardy smelt]

🤷‍♀️

I get why they made that rule

[frozen hornet]

Travel back in time before 31st december 2020 and pay 50 dollars for a donor item

[unique reef]

i've really wanted to suggest a weapon then play the game and say "hey, i suggested that!"

[tardy smelt]

lol

that's not what I was thinking about

you know on the topic of weapons

[unique reef]

yeah

"can't be specific"

that's what i'm good at

[tardy smelt]

I really wish Re-Logic explored the idea of Joustling Lances more

they could have been really cool but now they're outclassed and garbage 90% of the time

[shy pine]

also kinda useless vs bosses

[tardy smelt]

exactly

Think that if they were fleshed out a bit more they could've lead to really cool tactics

[unique reef]

to go with the Fathom Swarmer suggestion, i think the armor should be a little buffed

It's outclassed by Spooky armor, which is arguably easier to get

[tardy smelt]

lol I had never put the link between different summon sets and their minions

[unique reef]

Fathom Swarmer? I go into the abyss Post-CloneCal, where it's a lot more dangerous, (i could just fish but that's lame) grind and mine some materials from dangerous enemies, and craft the armor.

Spooky? I just kill some spooky trees and craft the armor.

My point is, You get Spooky Armor almost immediately after Fathom Swarmer, meaning that it's almost useless since it's so quickly replaced, since the latter is significantly stronger.

My suggestion, make the two armors on par with each other, or make Fathom slightly stronger, since Cal is harder and more fun than Plantera.

[tardy smelt]

well yeah

they're sort of on the same tier, indeed

I was about to say Pumpkin Moon is no joke but in all fairness if you just stick to the lower waves for grinding spooky wood it's easy enough

if you want pumpking drops that's a different story

[crude geode]

It’s not really outclassed imo, as it’s gives dr and higher defense in exchange for less damage

[unique reef]

i still find Spooky Armor better. I've always had an easier time with Pumpkin Moon than Abyss

[crude geode]

Just because you do doesn’t mean everyone does

[unique reef]

Fathom's at its best underwater. Not many people fight bosses underwater

[crude geode]

It still gives 12% more damage reduction, and 17 (27 in water) more defense than spooky, and is available slightly earlier. It’s a tanky niche.

[unique reef]

yeah, i don't like to tank

so i can see why some people might prefer it

[crude geode]

For Christ’s sake it’s almost as tanky as turtle armor.

Underwater ofc

[shy pine]

the pumpkin moon is post plantera

hmmmm

surely beetle armour would be the best for tanking

[crude geode]

8 less defense and 3% less damage reduction.

I mean yes but that’s post golem

[shy pine]

pffft golem is hardly a major obstacle for progress

[crude geode]

Arguably a bit more in calamity but eh

Most people are gonna do plantera first

[unique reef]

Golem's always been a pushover

[crude geode]

and it’s more of a comparison between fathom and the designated tank armor for that tier

[shy pine]

oh right

[unique reef]

maybe next playthough, i can make a huge water arena, and try to use Fathom

and see if it works better

[shy pine]

play summoner and just spend the whole battle with botomless water bucket

[unique reef]

lol

[crude geode]

Water arena means Fathom has only 50% less damage (at base with NO minion slot buffs/accessories) than Spooky, in exchange for 27 more defense and 12% damage reduction

[shy pine]

you are going to use for one boss fight because you get beetle afterwards

is it worth making a water arena

[crude geode]

Arguably yes if you know your buffs

and want to

[unique reef]

You don't get Fathom for long

[shy pine]

which armour does summoner go to post golem i forgot

oh the plague armour

[crude geode]

Kinda

Spooky armor has a bit more summon damage and a extra minion slot, but plaguebringer has a summon that boosts by a flat amount

[shy pine]

hmmmm plaguebringer seems much much more damage based

[crude geode]

18% extra damage on spooky

[shy pine]

tbh between plaguebringer, spooky and fathom swarmer

spooky is the most balanced between offense and defence

depends how you want to play ig

[crude geode]

Nah spooky has less defense than plague. Also no +20 health.

[unique reef]

Plague also releases bees and plagues everything

plus, dash

[crude geode]

Fathom Swarmer is for people who like playing summoner but dislike taking 70 damage from any hit.

Does the dash even give you i-frames?

also this isn’t a problem exclusive to fathom, it also applies to chlorophyte tbfh.

[grim tusk]

Plaguebringer dash is a ram

So yes

[tardy smelt]

there's a lot of good underwater builds

or well a lot of good underwater accessos

the problem is the arena

[grim tusk]

Also fathom is still decent outside of water as a tanky summoner

[tardy smelt]

P A I N and a dance with the angler

[crude geode]

Not everyone likes it though Bc it doesn’t have anywhere close to the damage of spooky so it’s bad

Could use a small buff but great rebalance 2 would handle that

[shy pine]

As you can see, Plaguebringer's bonus effects are its only pros, while Spooky armour has the highest damage, and fathom swarmer is the best in water by far, and performs well outside of water.

I wasted too much time on this

[grim tusk]

Rip Tiki and OoA t3 armors

[shy pine]

we were only talking about those three but i could put them

[crude geode]

don’t bother

Nobody uses OoA t3 Bc you have to go through that event and nobody uses tiki

[grim tusk]

Sentry spamming is really fucking strong but ye

[shy pine]

tiki sucks

[crude geode]

if you’re spamming sentries you might as well play mage/do some other cheese

[grim tusk]

Tiki probably needs, buffed leaf wings and prolly 1 extra minion or smth

[crude geode]

Tiki needs a niche

[shy pine]

also tiki minions are a joke

[grim tusk]

OoA inf sentry abuse bad, spamming sentries good

[crude geode]

Fathom v Spooky works Bc it’s damage versus defense

Tiki v Spooky doesn’t work because nobody cares about total minion slots versus damage, they just know that more minion damage is better

[shy pine]

plaguebringer isn't focused on either of those things, so i don't think its fair to compare it either

[grim tusk]

Plaguebringer frees an acc slot

[crude geode]

^

[grim tusk]

Which in the end makes it way stronger

[crude geode]

Which is why it’s a few tiers/bosses above spooky and fathom

[shy pine]

yeah exactly so you can't just compare the base stats

[grim tusk]

Hydro is also quite eh

Prolly beats fathom but not spooky

Nobody talks about reaver summoner, it doesnt exist

[crude geode]

Bc it’s an all class set that has a summoner helmet

[grim tusk]

The only good reaver ones are melee and mage (which is also broken as fuck), it needed that 1.5 rework badly

[crude geode]

Reaver Armor doesn’t deserve to exist period, but I guess I’ll wait for the rework.

Just armor bloat since every class is getting new sets around that tier

[shy pine]

isnt reaver armour used for like golem and then never again

[crude geode]

Reaver armor isn’t used period currently but wait for the 1.5 rework of it

[grim tusk]

That would be for any class not named mage if there werent so many better options available

[crude geode]

I think we get it by now

On god why this happens like every time

[grim tusk]

I got one stuck in 188 #suggestions-voting message

[grim tusk]

And yea its painful lmao

[shy pine]

why, do you need 200?

[crude geode]

Delivers it to devs

Arguably 170-80 is more painful tbfh, cuz you can’t just advertise put a link in discussion, you have to go through and repost generally

#suggestions-voting message
This is the suggestion I was referring to, about tiki armor in fact

[shy pine]

wait ill vote it

[craggy kernel]

its at 199 now

[hot zephyr]

I could vote for it

[crude geode]

Even if you don’t I have a friend who’ll vote for it when they can

[still zodiac]

wait when did spooky give 5 minion slots

[sand umbra]

Spooky only gives 4 slots

and Fathom Swarmer's bonuses in water require using water, which virtually nobody is going to actually put in the effort to use simply because it's too much of a hassle

[shy pine]

Oh sorry I was reading it off wiki page which was updated to 1.4

[sand umbra]

that's in 1.4

[shy pine]

That’s... what I said

[sand umbra]

no the 4 slots is in 1.4

pre-1.4 Spooky only gives 3

[shy pine]

Uhhh

[sand umbra]

you have a minion slot by default

[shy pine]

Yes

That’s what I put

[sand umbra]

and what I'm telling you is that that slot shouldn't be counted in what Spooky gives you

[shy pine]

Waaiiit did I not add the default one to the other two

[sand umbra]

...huh. you did

I could've sworn Fathom Swarmer and Plaguebringer gave more

eh, whatever

maybe I'm just remembering Calamity summoner's funky-ass balance wrong again

been a helluva while since I did my summoner playthrough (which didn't even finish because I got bored)

[shy pine]

Oh ok but the numbers are accurate

[sand umbra]

yeah

[shy pine]

Calm

[hollow shell]

This suggestion will remain valid into 1.5 technically
Cuz while Auric's recipe will become much easier, the bulk mats are being moved to a new material

which this would apply to instead

[dim star]

Is that suggestion formatted right?

[frail mantle]

i think so

[safe oasis]

@spice garden they're not the same type of thing though, enchanted star fish is a mana star equivalent, not a fallen star equivalent. also a secondary minor thing, spelled alternative wrong in the sugg title

[violet dagger]

perhaps instead it could create more potions

so instead of getting 1 potion with fallen stars you get 2 with enchanted star fish

[safe oasis]

for what reason though

[spice garden]

Yeah I understand they're not necessarily equivalents in terms of game mechanics, but I feel they fall under the same kind of 'theme'

[safe oasis]

if you do that for the fish, why not for mana star too

not really? it's in the same vein of mana stars being useless as soon as you reach 200 mana as well

not sure why there should be an exception specifically for the fish

[spice garden]

Yeah but you can choose to not make mana stars, can't choose to not fish up enchanted starfish

[safe oasis]

can choose to trash it

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[spice garden]

Wouldn't necessarily say that's a solution

Also I think stuffing an enchanted fish into a bottle to increase your magical abilities makes as much sense as doing the same thing with a fallen star

I also think getting some of these fish alongside other fish you might need is a lot less tedious than running up and down your skybridge for 30 minutes every time you need more potions

[grim tusk]

Sell the fish is also something you can do but yea.
Why the hell can life crystals still be used for other shit (heart lanterns) but not mana crystals or enchanted star fish

And yea potions make more sense

Like being an alternative to all of the herb, fallen stars and blood orbs for mana regeneration and magic power potions

Maybe something could be done for other potions as well to make the potion system more interesting

[hollow shell]

@ashen warren 1. Your title is way too broad
2. We do not need to absorb all quality of life mods. tModLoaer lets you pick and choose what you want to have. Calamity's a mod just like any other, it ain't standalone (despite past perspectives that it may desire to be)

We sure as hell aren't going to absorb Magic Storage

[dim star]

bruh this suggestion

[hollow shell]

(almost all Calamity weps have autoswing anyway and we even add autoswing to some vanilla weps)
(even when we shouldn't)

[cobalt pewter]

Cal absorbing magic storage in 1.4 tmod could be funny I think

[ashen warren]

[fallen plover]

also for the mana potions sugg, aureus and deus drop loads of stars when you kill them and they're pretty easy to farm later, just something to keep in mind

[thick raptor]

You can edit that into your suggestion if you want

[fallen plover]

its not my suggestion but im just saying its an alternative way to get them

[hollow shell]

The thing is, those are pretty late bosses

[whole sedge]

(Granted they do also specify in the sugg it being an issue Mid to Late game mainly which is where aureus is but doesn't change much)

[fast viper]

can i send videos with suggestions?

like, gameplay footage, i meant

oh wait yeah i can, nevermind

[hollow shell]

Yeah that's allowed.

[fast viper]

alright cool

hmm, how would i word this suggestion

basically, there's a thing with astrum deus where you can hit him as soon as he spawns with yanmei's knife while he's all coiled up and basically chunk off 30% of his health before the fight even begins by debuffing all his segments with the DOT from yanmei's knife's debuff

would it just be a recommendation to make him intangible when he spawns

or make it so that you can only hit his head/tail to trigger the debuff/buff from yanmei's knife (like DoG)

or do i just say "in some way, prevent the player from cheesing 30% of astrum deus' health by hitting him when he spawns with yanmei's knife"

[grim tusk]

Patched already

[fast viper]

like, next patch?

1.5, you mean?

[grim tusk]

Many have complained about that

I did even

Yes 1.5

[fast viper]

ah okay

guess there's no need for the suggestion then

[vale vale]

Has there been anything on converting thrown weapons with the ranged damage type in 1.4 to rogue damage?

[frail mantle]

it has been confirmed that Calamity won't do it

rogue is meant to be its own thing and making (previously) thrown weapons rogue kinda defeats that point

[whole sedge]

It's also a don't to suggest it so probably shouldn't as thrown's gonna get snapped anyways

[violet sierra]

wanted to make a sugg but couldnt think of a good reason for it

[safe oasis]

@novel belfry it was approved by the bot though

[novel belfry]

🤔

[safe oasis]

it’s approved automatically after 24 hours to get sent into the voting channel

[novel belfry]

oh

[safe oasis]

unless there’s a ❗ on it, then it gets deleted after 24 hours if not fixed

[whole sedge]

it does show who approved it as suggestionbot's the one who approved it also

[safe oasis]

(i said that)

[whole sedge]

Like 98% of suggestion's you'll see are just autoapproved and the only time it's manually approved is if said bot is down but even then it'll show in the embed of someone approving it
(If you did I didn't see that so mb)

[crude geode]

This is a tmodloader problem

[sleek turret]

@thick raptor Read the pinned document, those are tModLoader problems.

[thick raptor]

Yes, but shouldn’t a new item be possible?

[safe oasis]

it’s getting fixed next tmod update anyway iirc

no real point

[thick raptor]

Oh didn’t realize it was getting fixed

[safe oasis]

and even if it weren’t, no reason calamity specifically should do this and not like any other mod

[thick raptor]

Any idea how far out that update is?

[safe oasis]

uhh when 1.4 tmod releases

[frail mantle]

afaik it's in its unstable beta stage

[thick raptor]

Ah I thought you meant more of a bug fix type update

[frail mantle]

not exactly close to finish but not exactly just starting to be worked on either

[ashen python]

just added a suggestion, what do yall think

[gray venture]

add a title line

[grim tusk]

:thinkies:

[ashen python]

the top line IS a title line right

[grim tusk]

bold the title line

[ashen python]

ah bold

[gray venture]

and seperate it

[grim tusk]

*bolt*

[grim tusk]

nah, just bold is needed to make people distiguish title, bot doesnt need

[gray venture]

oh

i thought it did

[hollow shell]

Good suggestion, Myhlk's.

[ashen python]

thanks

[violet dagger]

Uhh accidentally talked in posting

[ashen python]

saw that, they just dmmed me

[red oyster]

Sorry for that

[ashen python]

np

[wooden wedge]

@ashen pythonyou can remove the roof of the dungeon to prevent cultist spawns

iirc

[ashen python]

i think i did

i removed it entirely yeha

[safe oasis]

isn't it the floor? not the roof that you have to remove

still not great but you can do that as a bandaid fix for now

[crude geode]

yeah if you remove a decent bit of the floor you can stop them from spawning

[ashen python]

idk

[ancient mirage]

yeah i always remove the roof for skeletron arena and the cultists spawn fine

[river glen]

you can remove the dungeon entrance

[safe oasis]

@hazy goblet no joke suggs m8

[hazy goblet]

No i really want a shadowspec toilet

[ashen warren]

seriously toilets aren't funny

[zenith hazel]

shadowspec shit is reserved for devs

and reply here instead of #suggestions-posting @ashen warren

[ashen warren]

how do I reverse my brain to 2 hours ago

[cobalt pewter]

1. Adding a dedicated slot for literally anything is hard, example: WingSlot
2. Can't they just make it so that music boxes are toggleable with favorite in inventory instead?

[obsidian topaz]

While I can't really combat this first point. My argument for the second is that Calamity has too many items that can be toggled in the inventory and reduces inventory functionality. My dedicated slot idea is a sort of "out of sight but not out of mind" thing where the player can just equip it and enjoy without compromising anything.

[safe oasis]

why should calamity specifically do this though

and not just a miscellaneous music box slot mod like something similar to wingslot

[obsidian topaz]

for greater compatibility with modded music boxes

[cobalt pewter]

That's a point too yes

It doesn't seem to be something Cal shouldn't do

[left sparrow]

I think one of these days I'm gonna make a suggestion to remove class-specific defense

Like, once you hit hardmode, all the classes have such a similar playstyle that something like summoner just suffers for no reason why melee has 20 extra defense just because melee technically has more close range potential

But when near all melee weapons in clamity are just bootleg magic weapons, that defense boost is just an unfair advantage

Whatcha guys think, should I post that as an idea?

[hot zephyr]

Summoner does not need buffs

[left sparrow]

Alright, how about a better example then

Why do mages have less defense when melee is literally the same thing with high defense

[hot zephyr]

That's a pretty big oversimplification

[left sparrow]

The playstyles are functionally the same, and melee even gets more potential damage via true melee WITH the projectile weapons!

[hot zephyr]

You're going in the wrong direction

[safe oasis]

i don’t think the defense is the problem here

[left sparrow]

It really is, especially at the start of prehm when melee's 30 extra defense is potentially double what a mage's defense is

er

Shit

[hot zephyr]

Instead of trying to even out the playstyles even more by changing armor defense instead mayhaps we make suggestions to diversify the classes?

[left sparrow]

Start of HM

That'd require completely changing melee weapons, of which there are SO MANY

[safe oasis]

and this would be a really good sugg (if it didn’t fall under the no suggs that take tons of effort don’t )

[muted osprey]

[hot zephyr]

Or maybe people should stop crutching on projectile melee and start using the other weapons in the class for once

[left sparrow]

Ah yes, the other 2 weapons

[hot zephyr]

[left sparrow]

Now, I actually once had a really good idea to change the entirety of melee weapons

It involved removing the projectiles from all the melee weapons, but giving them all the option to parry, and each weapon would have a unique parry effect(like how the Brand of the Inferno gives you a +500% attack, but just a different effect like "better health regen after a hit" or "shoots a large projectile") and it would require you to actually be in close range, all the time

...but it got ruled out for being too intense of an idea

[ashen warren]

Yea that’s a uh

Probably very hard to balance and requires to much time

[left sparrow]

Exactly.
Which is why, if they're not going to actually put effort into making each class unique, they should just make them all have the same stats(damage and defense wise)

It's genuinely frustrating when the devs put so much effort into this mod and then say "sorry, that idea is too much work." They'd rather just add more furniture.

Granted, the work they do is great, but come on! If they wanna make their mod great, at least make the gameplay more unique than just the adrenaline, rage or stealth mechanics.

[ashen warren]

I think overhauling an entire type of weapons is bad though, as many people seem to like the way melee is right now. I don’t think introducing this whole “parry” mechanic is worth it if only part of the player base is going to like it and just the sheer amount of time it’ll take to implement.

Unique mechanics is good and all but in some places it’s just not really necessary

[left sparrow]

Four of the classes in this game involve throwing out a projectile and that projectile dealing the main source of damage. Summoner is the only class that doesn't directly throw out those projectiles, and instead manipulate minions which allow for a lot of unique ways to play the game.

That's quite boring.

At least, the other four classes.

[safe oasis]

you’re oversimplifying a ton here

[frail vale]

I personally think thatd really cool

thats

I like summoner

it's a change from just shooting projectiles everywhere

[left sparrow]

Yeah, summoner is the most fun class because it does more than just shoot projectiles from the character

[frail vale]

ohh I thought you said it's boring

I gut confused

[safe oasis]

completely subjective now, you’re straying further from the point

[left sparrow]

Sorry, I did phrase that oddly

[ashen warren]

Unfortunately, that’s how terraria was built, as a game where yo hold down mouse 1 and aim at the enemy. It’s hard to introduce an entirely new mechanic without some players getting pissy and/or a massive amount of balance changes. Besides removing general stats of a class just kinda makes them less unique, even more so than you claim they are.

[left sparrow]

The stat differences are completely moot.

[edgy sundial]

Honestly, I agree. It needs to be that melee kills the enemies, mage befriends them, and ranger bribes them, so that the classes are distinct and cool. Anything less than that would be too boring imo.

[left sparrow]

They don’t mechanically change anything in the game

All it does is make your life easier or harder.

[safe oasis]

play overhaul then gg /s

[left sparrow]

[edgy sundial]

As it is right now, it's just silly, all the classes have hp that enemies take away, and deal damage to take away enemis' hp. The classes are literally the exact same

[left sparrow]

Melee is somewhat unique due to true melee, but there isn’t quite enough variety there just yet.

[edgy sundial]

More like carbon copy of the other classes amiright? When does mage get charisma, or ranger get fiscal security as defensive measures instead of the same defense that they all share for no good reason?

[left sparrow]

Attack and defense stats are probably fine as-is, however each class should have a more unique way to deal their damage, yeah. It would be definitely hard to do that, for sure, but it’s entirely possible to do

[ashen warren]

Stats punish you and rewards you based upon how good you are at the game, I kinda think that’s good for what stats are supposed to be. While yea most weapons in terraria are functionally the same, it’s not nescissarily a bad thing as THATS pretty much how the game was built.

[edgy sundial]

Nah, if all the classes are dealing and receiving hp damage, they may as well be the same class. It's kind of frustrating that the devs haven't addressed this glaring design flaw imo

[eternal escarp]

Melee isnt always melee because terraria cannot support true melee correctly
Ranger is what it is
Mage will obviously have range because have you ever seen magic weapons without mediocre range
Summoner is just summoning things to shoot, instesd of shoot directly
Rogue is throwing the weapon instesd of using it

you can oversimplify all the classes to make all of them sound boring

but when you look at the classes core

[ashen warren]

I mean at that point you just remove damage rules as a whole

[eternal escarp]

they are slightly different then each other

[left sparrow]

Melee gets the same damage stats as rangers do with the HM metal armors, and yet they get more defense

I’m near certain of that

[ashen warren]

Melee weapons in the base game do much lower damage or require you to get in close.

[left sparrow]

In the... base game, sure

This is calamity though, where that rule is thrown out the window

[eternal escarp]

Mage has the most weapon oppurtinities for wacky stuff
Summoner has the oppurtinity for unique summons that fight differently from each other
Ranger has unique bows, guns ect the more you progress, i.e Star cannon
Rogue has a whole fucking gimmick being Stealth

the classes arent carbon copies and are actually different, be it early hm or whatever

[ashen warren]

I’ve played around with calamity early hardmode a bit and it seemed to generally have worse DPS than ranger and mage tbh

[distant gyro]

in calamity players are also told that defense doesn't really matter so like lol

[left sparrow]

Hm. Maybe I haven’t been paying enough attention.

Funny “don’t get hit”

[edgy sundial]

No, I think stomp has a point. Until ranger becomes fps gameplay, mage becomes match 3, and melee turns into VR combat, the classes are obviously too similar

[distant gyro]

not directly told but is a generally and secretly accepted rule in the community

[left sparrow]

This mans has a point, get to it rn

[eternal escarp]

okay, question is when are they too similiar to you?

[distant gyro]

classes are indeed too similar

but that doesn't stop divide between class debates

[left sparrow]

So, they become too similar because ranger, melee, mage and rogue gameplay involves shooting a projectile from the character. Summoners are different because they can have multiple different summons for a wide range of utility

[distant gyro]

there will be a favorite class, but the collective of the weapons and equipment will decide

rather than playstyle

[eternal escarp]

thats just oversimplifying the classes agian

[left sparrow]

Because that’s what the classes are.

[eternal escarp]

obviously they shoot stuff, how else would you make weapins in this game?

[left sparrow]

Melee could just not shoot projectiles

[eternal escarp]

and be litteraly useless?

[left sparrow]

Guns and bows can shoot, sure

[eternal escarp]

melee cannot be real melee in terraria

[edgy sundial]

Mage should have to type out elaborate insults to do emotional damage to enemies, thus making them distinct enough for stomp, duh

[eternal escarp]

thats just basically impossible with how the game works

[left sparrow]

Magic doesn’t set enough traps or provide enough useful utility

[ashen warren]

Make them have so bullshit unique mechanic that makes it probably either useless or overpowered or both at the same time, duh

[left sparrow]

Also, a parry function exists in the game. Why not expand on that?

[eternal escarp]

mage doesnt have to be a support class like all games lole

[ashen warren]

Probably because it wasn’t meant to be used as a main damage source and is there for a gimmick for some weapons to have

[eternal escarp]

traps, maybe
but then its an "sentry copy oh no"

[left sparrow]

Traps like bear traps, not like sentries.

[eternal escarp]

in that case it would be mostly iseless

other then like

mobs

which die in 3 hits modt of the time

[cobalt pewter]

It's immensely half baked and if you wanna do anything about it, I'd honestly just wait for 1.4 tmod

[edgy sundial]

Too similar, you set something down and it does damage. Do you even want the classes to be different, my dude?

[ashen warren]

You just gotta pray the funny giant eyeball walks into your exploding fireball trap

[cobalt pewter]

(though Dan made something about parrying a while back too)

(byeah)

[eternal escarp]

the point is

this is terraria
your options are limited

[left sparrow]

Sorry, I should do it so that you have to 3D print the item IRL and then you set the trap, and finally you import it into the game to trap a single enemy

[ashen warren]

Also about the mechanic itself, how ye would it even work lmao. Do you just minmax melee speed and half the projectiles on one side of the screen no longer have a hitbox and you have to pray the projectile hits your opponent?

[eternal escarp]

its either you shoot stuff differently or you play summoner (which you just summon the shooty stuff)
the classes differ in the things they have, since for the most part they cannot differ in overall design

ranger has ammo system (which is also somewhat meh, can be done better)
mage has mana (which exists)
melee is just plain and simple
summoner is summoner
rogue has stealth

they differ in what they can

+all the weapons each one has

armors sets, ect

the classes are similiar, but they arent the same, is my point

[left sparrow]

Yeah, that’s true. The weapons all boil down to homing or fast projectiles after the mech bosses, but I guess they do have some small differences there.

Differences that can be easily avoided with a few accessories, but they are there

[eternal escarp]

(after the mech bosses its not all homing)

(unless you seek out only homing weapons)

[eternal escarp]

if they can be avoided, but they exist

then the option to avoid them isnt the games fault, its the users

you dont have to make them similiar if you dont want to

[left sparrow]

But when they’re going to make it easier to play the game, then it would just make it harder on them to do something that another class(MELEE) could do for free

[eternal escarp]

what is this accesory in question then?

[left sparrow]

For mages, the mana flower

For rangers, the infinite ammo pouches

[eternal escarp]

if its mana rose or whatever then mage is mostly better with mana regen

infinite ammo pouches are only for the basic ammo

so that doesnt exactly matter here

since youd almost always want the newer ammo

[left sparrow]

Which makes certain weapons that change normal bullets better.

[eternal escarp]

not exactly true

its better to use the highest bullet damage, iirc

and the former, is just 1 out of 2 ways to play mage

and personally, regen is FAR more effective

[ashen warren]

Ranger has only one infinite ammo pouch in the base game + calamity, that being the literal worse piece of ammo in the game and is easily accessible. Mana flower comes with a heavy punishment, lowering your damage count by a significant amount and wastes an accessory slot that could otherwise be used for something more useful.

[eternal escarp]

^ those points yeah

mana flower is more of a hinder to appease people who dont wanna think when they play, tbf

[left sparrow]

Right, you’re proving my point.
These limitations are annoying because another class can access ranged attacks that might even be better for free

[eternal escarp]

it is basically, a braindead accesory for mage

[ashen warren]

Yea mana flower is a thing that exists

[left sparrow]

TWO classes, actually

[eternal escarp]

okay, but can another class have the different gimmicks like the other?

ranger has unique weapons to mage, and mage has unique weapons to melee, and ect

its not like they all have the EXACT SAME arsenal

each one is unique

similiar, maybe
but theres almost no way to not make them similiar in a game like terraria

(phone writting kills my brain, god)

[left sparrow]

I’m gonna bring up the parry mechanic again, because that mechanic alone proves that you definitely can make each class very much unique from the others

[eternal escarp]

which parry mechanic?

not sure I'm familiar with that

[left sparrow]

Brand of the inferno

[eternal escarp]

thats a weapon gimmick

not a class gimmick

[ashen warren]

I don’t know how Gael’s greatsword parry works but from what I know you press right click and the projectile goes back

[eternal escarp]

if it was a class gimmick

every weapon of the class could do ot

[left sparrow]

Why not make it a class gimmick? That’d certainly make the class a lot more interesting

[eternal escarp]

and if you want to say that not all ranger weapons can benefit from unique ammo, thats changed next aupdate

[left sparrow]

Oh?

[ashen warren]

This seems like a pretty fucking terrible idea. Do you just parry a projectile and pray it hits the boss? How much damage would the projectile even do? Would bosses have to be scaled to fit in with this new mechanic?

[eternal escarp]

that sounds like a fine suggestion, but a hell of a one to balance out

[left sparrow]

I didn’t see that change.

[cobalt pewter]

It's

High effort at best

[eternal escarp]

ill look for it, ig

[cobalt pewter]

And straight up jank at worst

[left sparrow]

Right, the balance. But the thing is that they’ve already got lots of experience balancing out unique mechanics like the rogue mechanic

[cobalt pewter]

No one liked making and rebalancing stealth

Stealth strike is essentially another weapon on a different one

[eternal escarp]

#changelogs message

Change 401

[ashen warren]

At least you’re able to test DPS with stealth
Relying on boss projectiles to do damage sounds pretty horrible to me

[eternal escarp]

they might have experience
it will still take a fuck ton of time to balance

youd have to check practiaclly every weapon with that mechanic

to see if its broken or not

[cobalt pewter]

You don't test stelth with dps

[eternal escarp]

kill time

iirc

[cobalt pewter]

Typically with kill time yes

[ashen warren]

Kill time yea

[left sparrow]

Yeah...? They checked every weapon’s overall dps before

[cobalt pewter]

But DPS is still noted for documentation

[left sparrow]

They can just
Do it again

[eternal escarp]

and it took a fuck load of time

[cobalt pewter]

It's just not a major factor on stealth balancing

[ashen warren]

At least you can test how broken stealth is, relying on enemy projectiles to do damage just sounds bad

[eternal escarp]

i doubt they would do it agian for smthn as small as that

hell

they only did Post ML

[left sparrow]

Not saying the parry idea I have in mind would just reflect the boss projectiles.

[eternal escarp]

and it took a fuck loudda time

the entire game?

[left sparrow]

The parries would give different buffs per weapon, which is where the large amount of effort comes in

[eternal escarp]

which is why the theoretical sugg would likely fail

[left sparrow]

Yeah, it already failed about two years ago

[ashen warren]

I mean it’s kinda hard to use those buffs assuming they’re offensive, as true melee range is completely garbage

[left sparrow]

That was when I first made the suggestion. I’m glad they’re going more towards true melee stuff, but it’s still disappointing to see it’s all generally the same

[ashen warren]

who said calamity is balanced

[eternal escarp]

...

its working its way to be as balanced as it can

snd in most places, it is balanced

[crude geode]

It’s currently attempting to become more balanced

[eternal escarp]

i.e, the entire post ML rebalancing

[dapper coral]

experience != willingness
balancing stealth is something that is never desired to be repeated again, it's caused enough headache in post-ml alone with new formulas and whatnot
to suggest a new mechanic for the entirety of the game and expect that to be done because testers have experience dealing with new mechanics is unthinkable

[cobalt pewter]

True

It counts as high effort suggs no?

Which is a no

[frail mantle]

yea

[sleek turret]

uhh

wouldn't just be simplier to summon Crabulon then after you summon your summons

[ashen warren]

This last suggestion is technically getting another fix isn't it

Bc Crabulon can sometimes deal damage when passive for no reason and I think that's getting fixed

Oh yeah it's about the summons

[sleek turret]

and also its not every dash item that works to avoid crabulon's spawn

SoC can bonk into Crabulon's hitbox.

[lilac raptor]

I just did that with heart of elements and for the second time he just attacked me for no reason. Maybe lingering projectiles or something similar

[frozen hornet]

doesn't he immediately attack you after you summon him

[sleek turret]

crabulon gets angry when you attack him

that includes inferno potion, tesla potion, shield bonks/dashes, AoE stuff, etc.

[eternal escarp]

(or after like, 5 seconds after being spawns iirc)

[frozen hornet]

Interlude songs?

[next fossil]

in the calamity mod playlist there are some interlude songs created for the playlist if you are listening to it in terms of music

[frozen hornet]

Ah yea

Iirc adding unused music is a don't

[frail mantle]

it is

music mod file is chungus enough as it is, and the interludes are only really there for the album

[crude geode]

@next fossil

[fallow hedge]

potentially dumb question, but do the bot's and poster's reaction count toward the 200 star total? I don't see anything on that in pins, but I would like to know just in case.

[cobalt pewter]

Yes

[radiant meadow]

It's not really worth it to make the req 202 or 201 just because of that

[fallow hedge]

ah, well in that case suggestion #suggestions-voting message has reached its star lmit but does not seem to have been flagged as meeting its goal

thanks for the reply

[radiant meadow]

It'll probably be delivered when someone gets around to it

[fallow hedge]

ah

I now see it's a manual approval, thought the bot handled that

[grim tusk]

#suggestions-posting message
Needs better reasoning and example @lilac raptor

And making it float doesnt make sense

And he already doesnt harm you if you dont attack him first, but yea i feel your pain

Give an example that fits more pre-hm

Like the crimson staff (the one with the cloud from hearts) and summons such as magic conch, belladona and brittle stars

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/516928309058076672/701576318076059683/Terraria__Can_You_Re-Dig-It__2020-04-19_18-31-19_Trim.mp4 i actually had this happen with crimson staff long ago

[ashen warren]

I've had it happen a ton of time when I was using belladonna on crabulon lmao

[grim tusk]

Also maybe than using nohit fails or armaggedon farming as examples, just getting unfairly hit is way better and more relateable

#suggestions-posting message
@obsidian topaz a mod that does this already exists, its called Tmusicplayer. So you already kinda have it already, Cal doesnt need to implement it (making new acc slots is though due to the vanilla limit)

Also new slots is a dont:

• Any suggestions about adding an 8th (eighth) accessory slot.
  Reason: The seventh accessory slot was already programmed into Terraria in 1.3, and it got utilized in 1.4 with Master Mode + Demon Heart. We simply activated the normally inaccessible seventh vanilla slot. Adding an eighth slot would mean we need to program a functional accessory slot from the ground up, and it would be very buggy and headache-inducing for our programmers. It would not be worth it. Seven slots is enough, and we balance around that

[keen zodiac]

@obsidian topaz also you can play music boxes in vanity slots

[wooden wedge]

@upper tartan sounds more like something for #bugs-read-pins not suggs

[hollow shell]

I'm not sure

I think it could work for either channel

[upper tartan]

is it a bug? not really sure

i dont really think its ever not been that way

[river glen]

what about a suggestion to lock revear shark post EoC

unless im unaware of it

since u can litterally progress skip.. or is this part of the non-linearity of calamity

if you go out of ur way to get smth rare u should be rewarded smth like that

[crude geode]

Probably part of non-linearity. I don’t think the suggestion would go over well even if it was let into voting (just look at the reaction to reaver shark nerf in Journey’s End)

[fallow hedge]

think it's under the don't suggest this anyway

[safe oasis]

#suggestions-posting message
title is phrased weirdly, otherwise good as far as i can tell

[earnest cape]

well

[crude geode]

@hollow shell Most recent suggestion in posting good or is it redundant from great rebalancing?

[hollow shell]

I'm not sure
It seems like his problems are mostly conceptual

Blood Clot having lower base damage than Seabound is intentional, cuz Blood Clot hits more often
But he brought up their interaction with defense, which is a point of concern

[safe oasis]

shouldn't it have the same base damage as or slightly more than seabound staff, even if it hits more anyway

since its like 3 bosses past it in progression

[crude geode]

possibly, possibly not.

[dim star]

you gotta love it when someone's reason for a suggestion is "uhhhhhh idk it would be cool i think"

[earnest cape]

nebulous core will get godslayer revive next update

[ashen warren]

Oh wait really

[earnest cape]

yes

[ashen warren]

Bruh

Amazing

Invalid suggestion

[earnest cape]

and tbh better stay away from balancing suggs especially for post ml rn since it's also being rebalanced

indeed

[ashen warren]

Right sorry lmao

[earnest cape]

[crude geode]

Tbh this would kinda ruin the unique nature of Astrum Deus' summoning, at least to me

[frail mantle]

also DoG doesn't actually come from another planet or dimension

he's from Terraria, he just lives in a personal pocket dimension thing currently

[dim star]

Yeah isn’t DoG just a really powerful worm species

[frank viper]

i have an idea

cutscenes

a seperate mod like the music mod that will add cutscenes before/after fighting a boss and at the first loading of a world

[dim star]

Nah

That wouldn’t work

[brazen oar]

I think more so in game cutscenes like allowing the player to move around

It might work for Supreme Cal and more story oriented bosses

Like Draedon

[fossil finch]

That's technically on the list of "devs may do it when they finish on the actual mod"

[frank viper]

i was thinking it pauses the game for the cutscene to play out

and it isnt in the main mod

a seperate extention mod

[ashen python]

just added a suggestion, any thoughts?

[dense ferry]

It looks like a good idea, but might require a bit too effort

[ashen python]

yeah thats fair

[full pivot]

good idea but might be better applied to the metal detector

[ashen python]

ooh

[full pivot]

because i dont want only life crystals to be pointed out

[whole sedge]

Same could kind of be said for all of the Cellphone materials and such

[ashen python]

thats... vanilla

they are togglable

[whole sedge]

Metal Detector and Lifeform analyzer are also vanilla same with all of the cellphone materials..?