plus just dont spend time in the underworld then
#suggestions-discussion
violet minnow
zealous ridge
manually or crafted
unless they removed that
which maybe they did because of no more evil essence
frozen storm
modern arrow
Farm dolls before WoF I guess
terse girder
can we suggest changes to vanilla items or no?
i know they readjusted some of them but im not sure
dim star
If the pins don’t say anything about it than yes
tawny garden
Yes, you can
hot zephyr
Voodoo demon spawn becomes Monkey Paw. Now you'll never be able to find one
hollow sierra
there's a lore item that disables voodoo demons, no?
sharp prism
^
hot zephyr
Because people couldn't be assed to craft a Zen pot lmao
hollow sierra
so asking for a lower spawnrate for the point in the game where you have free control to enable and disable that seems a bit redundant 
modern arrow
Yea but who wants to keep more in their inventory 
sharp prism
just use fargo mutant and craft them in to the stackable one
gray nebula
alpine flax
oh ok
heady storm
Your suggestion isn't possible as a direct result.
alpine flax
i was wondering if u guys had access to it or not lol
frail mantle
CEM is both unofficial and discontinued
river glen
sand umbra
Because people couldn't be assed to craft a Zen pot lmao
Underworld lore disabling voodoo demon spawns predates Zerg and Zen becoming post-SG
hollow shell
Was there already talk about Mrrp's emote sugg
I just noticed it has 0 reason
dapper coral
iirc he pinged you regarding it
sleek turret
Hmm, yes, earlier today.
heady storm
He pinged you about it, yeah.
left ice
I posted my first suggestion
dapper coral
apparently this is how things are now, for emote suggs
sharp prism
the reason is so he doesnt get accused of admin abuse
hollow shell
I thought that was with regards to I Hate Sand's
((and I pinged him about it and somehow missed Mrrp's))
left ice
I'm worried about it being too difficult to implement
dapper coral
he was speaking in general
left ice
is it a good suggestion?
dapper coral
it seems fine to me
only thing i would note is that "yes it is indeed possible to get over 100% crit post-ML" because that's not something that people really think about
left ice
It would be a niche change, sure, but I would appreciate it
it would be nice for people who like rng
sleek turret
Hmm, for me, critical strikes with more than 100% chance, the extra that is left over from the weapon you have -- because Stealth Strikes are 100% guaranted crit -- should be added damage with a soft-cap.
left ice
But that defeats the purpose of it being rng-based
modern arrow
Isn’t stealth bad tho
modern arrow
Hmmm ok
hollow shell
Alright I read back to the pings and I am unsure on how to proceed
(I do heavily disagree that, if we were to make it so emote suggs didn't need a reason, that wouldn't need to be documented.
It absolutely would need to be documented.)
dapper coral
^
sleek turret
idk, emote suggestions are depending of how much people want to use it in this server.
heady storm
Yeah that's what I want too.
sleek turret
because 
was added because people wanted to use it on this server at all.
modern arrow
dapper coral
i agree with the idea that emote suggs need a new format because the traditional one doesn't really apply too much
i disagree that it wouldn't need to be documented. maybe not in the don'ts doc but at least somewhere in the pins so it's written down
hollow shell
I do think you can provide reasoning for an emote sugg
Mrrp wants smug2 because it's from a meme that is currently still popular and it would be funny
(if perhaps redundant)
dapper coral
i get the sentiment behind the idea that emote suggs are usually meme reasoning because... there's not much else to reason
sleek turret
Because at all, 
was added because there wasn't a variation of 
which implied a counterpart referencing the Calamity Mod.
(plus we have 3 smug emotes)
hollow shell
With several others for similar purposes
tawny garden
((Just wanted to say that both of the currently suggested emotes, if I put it politely, suck))
modern arrow
hollow shell
Trans bee is pretty eh and I have no idea how it would be used
I guess just whenever something transgender comes up? That could be demeaning tho
A trans-colored heart would be more suited if we wanted something for trans pride
sleek turret
Hmm, yes.
dim star
When would people use trans bee
sleek turret
Idk.
The only use I used 
was when I said "fighting now" after beating duke fishron.
tawny garden
As I previously said, transbee conveys no meaning
sleek turret
yep.
sleek turret
Right.
like, emotes represents emotions you feeling right now.
is when you beat something hard on a game and want to celebrate at all.
dapper coral
honestly adding trans/ace flags would probably be better than transbee just because the bee contributes nothing
wait discord already has trans flag
hollow shell
🏳️⚧️ byeah
hardy dock
I believe that the Ranged God Slayer has stacked crits
hollow shell
After reading the convo preceeding Mrrp's ping
yeah it makes sense that they wouldn't need reasoning
(though I am mad he made a pretty official statement about that before he pinged me about it)
I do think both of them need to be clearer that they are emote suggs, and not in fact meme suggs that want them added to Calamity
@sinful violet @unreal viper (but mostly Mrrp)
tawny garden
I'd still like them to have something
tawny garden
e.g. the emoji was used a lot by nitro users
hollow shell
to clarify when and why such a weird emote would be used
tawny garden
No
violet dagger
tawny garden
That's a seal alternative
hot zephyr
Trans PBG?
tawny garden
hot zephyr
violet dagger
:echbee:
Spider and zesty would probably approve of trans bee
But they both have nitro and have it on a private server iirc
sand umbra
@cobalt pewter re: funny Cultist go you shall no
doesn't Maso do this to Cultist
sinful violet
So just "add this as an emote" is a fine middle ground then?
sand umbra
I ask this not because I don't think it's a good idea to do it
but because I don't think it's a good idea to once again spur the clowns from Fargotown into crying copycat
sharp prism
phantasm dragon is a worm it has to be easy
sinful violet
@hollow shell Seem fine?
sharp prism
i think its perfect, really tells you why it should be added
unreal viper
I edited mine too.
hollow shell
what
sinful violet
I mean it's no longer pointlessly extravagant to meet standards
sharp prism
why did you capitalize Mod but not Terraria or Calamity
tawny garden
Also Rover
"having too much pointless stuff in it" was considered bad and enough to get an exclamation
Which to me is
But what so you think about it
heady storm
Actually, I wonder how suggbot would treat this.
tawny garden
It should just yeet it into voting fine
heady storm
Wait is the bot dead right now.
sand umbra
judging from the two suggs past their expiry date that need to be moved into voting, yes
heady storm
I have to manually drag these since manual approval isn't working.
tawny garden
If it breaks just because the sugg doesn't have a linebreak, I would be concerned with Amber's coding practices
sharp prism
this is why robots will never take over humanity
hollow shell
Yeah I personally dislike the implication that in order to make an emote sugg you shouldn't have reasoning
You should at least try
tawny garden
also is the doc updated
hollow shell
No, I'll do so
dapper coral
If it breaks just because the sugg doesn't have a linebreak, I would be concerned with Amber's coding practices
again with this? do you really have to imply such an insult like this?
hollow shell
(Do you wanna remove the exclam from Sand's sugg, Demik)
dapper coral
oh, sure
heady storm
If it breaks just because the sugg doesn't have a linebreak, I would be concerned with Amber's coding practices
@tawny garden yeah, please don't incite this a third time or we're just going to punish you.
I don't care whether or not you think it's "criticism," you're being downright disrespectful.
tawny garden
if I sound as if I'm making an insult, that is not the case
just that it's really easy to do
byeah sorry
modern arrow
Did suggestionbot die
sharp prism
me during school
tawny garden
modern arrow
Suggestionbot is a vegetable now 
left ice
I believe that the Ranged God Slayer has stacked crits
@Atomguy#8908 That is similar, but ultimately different from what I suggested. It would interact with this system by simply doubling the crit damage.
sharp prism
that seems busted
left ice
How
sharp prism
120% crit chance means you have a 1 in 5 chance to triple your damage
left ice
Only triple base damage
tawny garden
that's still quite a lot
sharp prism
yes i know that
left ice
Think about it
tawny garden
byeah you should clarify it in your sugg
left ice
All accessories to lucky would be 21% more crit chance
tawny garden
that you're talking about tripling base damage
golden narwhal
fligging ideas could have extra crit increase base crit damage instead if triple damage is too much
sleek turret
hmm.
left ice
Menacing is 28% more damage
cobalt pewter
<@!359879246446854147> re: funny Cultist go ``you shall no``
doesn't Maso do thi...
It's part emode part my livid frustration, byech
unreal viper
wut
sharp prism
what
unreal viper
Is this the legendary reply?
sharp prism
i can only do that in tmod discord
cobalt pewter
Yes
sand umbra
the reply pog
sleek turret
for me, do this:
since stealth strikes are 100% crit guaranted (with the accesory). when the player does the crit, transform the crit of the weapon into damage.
unreal viper
Yeah
left ice
Stealth sucks
unreal viper
You sugged that, didn't you feedza?
sharp prism
the reply pog
i agree
cobalt pewter
I actually experimented with excess crit chance in my mod a while back, obviously it's possible
sleek turret
wait what is this new sugg.
cobalt pewter
@outer crane isn't it already the case?
left ice
Oh
cobalt pewter
HotE waifus are all in a single buff icon
sleek turret
i mean, they are all the buffs alredy on the HoTE accesory because of waifus.
outer crane
oh
sleek turret
plus there's the stat bonuses which are uhh, the previous accs.
cobalt pewter
You sugged that, didn't you feedza?
Mhm, and I did some testing with Ancient Dice item in my mod. It should be possible
And I'd personally prefer the value to be kept at full effectiveness
cobalt pewter
You only get super high crit chance as stealth rogue anyways
In normal menacing build at least
cobalt pewter
and the mechanic would prolly repair stealth rogue's lack of dps easily
left ice
As an alternative
cobalt pewter
wait actually I can probably try that item in my mod for a stealth rogue build later
left ice
Wait
cobalt pewter
see how excess crit fares on that class
tawny garden
Still 5:30am here
golden narwhal
This sounds like you're using demonshade?
sleek girder
im not, i just have xerocs active. does that make him not go invis during walls?
golden narwhal
Idk what xeroc's is, byea, he should stay normal unless there's some sort of enrage feature you're using
sleek girder
xeroc just gives them enraged without any buffs to you
The Xeroc curse gives all enemies a reddish tint and increases their movement speed in a similar manner as the Demonshade enrage.
left ice
Xeroc curse
sleek girder
from the wiki
golden narwhal
Ah
left ice
It's a config setting
golden narwhal
Yea, that's the same as demonshade enraged
left ice
to make boss rush harder
sleek girder
tho i dont think that should make him damage you during walls
left ice
Try turning it off
golden narwhal
Regardless, that should be mentioned, since you make it sound like it's normal
(A mention should also be in the heading tbh)
real steppe
ah yes
Agreed to the Staff of Regrowth being able to grow trees
Getting wood the only reason why I world hop sometimes even though I always plant acorns
in Vanilla at least
The acorns just can't catch up
left ice
Thanks
ashen lark
ah yes tommorow
left ice
modifiers
lol
everyone wants to talk about modifiers
The true melee rage one could be called berserk
tawny garden
lmao I remember how there were like 8 Abyss suggs cause somebody (iirc Feedza) suggested smth about Abyss
tawny garden
people have a tendency to suggest something they're reminded of
tawny garden
the last sugg that had less votes than your menacing suggs was 6 and a half months ago
in that period, the amount of people who actively check suggs has doubled
cobalt pewter
tawny garden
crystal iron
Wait which one is murasama and which ones muramasa
cobalt pewter
Muramasa is funne blue dungeon katana
golden narwhal
@rose jacinth delete this part/move it to a different sugg, since that's two suggs in one
Also, since Expert+ Skeletron is significantly harder to beat, buff some of the weapons inside to slightly below hellstone tier in Expert or above.
rose jacinth
ok
tawny garden
Murasama is the funny post-Yharon sword
golden narwhal
ashen lark
muramasa is funne weap thats better than nights edge...
sleek girder
make.
violet dagger
make.
heady storm
@terse girder you need reasoning to go along with your suggestion.
terse girder
sorry i accidentally tapped enter
heady storm
Ah I see.
terse girder
is it good?
terse girder
yeah but thats not an excuse
crystal iron
Ik ik
terse girder
you shouldnt depend on other mods to fix issues like that
also i have zero clue why they capped it off at only 210% in vanilla terraria, that stuff takes all the vanilla endgame materials to make and is much harder to do than getting the laser drill which is a drop from the martian invasion which has the highest vanilla mining power at 230%
crystal iron
Maybe they reduced mining power cuz if mining speed
But the drill mount isn't that fast anyway so
It's not fast for an endgame mount should I say
terse girder
its fast for mining which at the point in terraria, mining for materials is an after thought
even in calamity mining for materials is an after thought after a certain point for the most part
most of the crafting materials come from the bosses except for a select few
crystal iron
I think actual Terraria should buff the mount's speed and calamity should make it scale with progression post moon lord
terse girder
even if you want to make the excuse that they are trying to make it relevant which is why its not a good idea
all a person has to do is get off the mount and use the laser drill and they are done
so its more out of QoL than anything else
sharp prism
laser drill has ass mining speed lunar picks are better in general
crystal iron
Ye, also they should increase its movement speed cuz it feels slow for a semi endgame mount maybe up to 51 mph
sharp prism
in 1.3
crystal iron
I never used laser drill, I can't use it properly
terse girder
HOW?
you literally click and it mines
i cant understand how you couldnt mine with it
sharp prism
the range doesnt matter in terms of speed
terse girder
i prefer the laser drill honestly
sharp prism
all just depends on personal preference tbh
terse girder
im just trying to figure out how you couldnt use the laser drill properly
thats not preference thats just plain confusing
its probably more easy to use than the picks as it basically puts out a little icon with a marker that shows you exactly where its mining
golden narwhal
@cloud atlas https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/369115362186231809/779179571035111434 this is a thing next update
(Just making sure you're aware)
narrow glade
cloud atlas
I did not notice that, I have not been keeping up with all of them.
golden narwhal
Byea, I'd say remove this if you still feel the sugg should stay, since that's already being alleviated
even then it only has a 50% chance to drop in Expert Mode
sleek girder
yknow id like to suggest more but i dont know what to suggest
guess ill look around in-game
cobalt pewter
Gilded Proboscis got nerfed so yech
hardy dock
It’s still great
It just heals less
My point is Calamity Boss drops are probably better balanced than Vanilla ones
misty sigil
Anyone else agree that there should be an option to disable Cadance's visual effect?
sleek turret
I still like it.
misty sigil
I personally like to actually see my character and there's already an option to disable Rogue's stealth invisibility
So I feel like that would fit right in
sleek turret
makes me actually to become redditor wholesome 100
still, for me its not annoying at all.
misty sigil
Didn't see one
Most players don't use it for the heart effect though, myself included
It's nice because it's basically a lifeforce potion on drugs
cobalt pewter
Honestly the love potion can just be removed in crafting as well
misty sigil
Should I post a suggestion then?
cobalt pewter
Sure
crude geode
i usually just use the search to search in suggestion voting and type some keyword like cadence or post golem or something
misty sigil
Yeah
heady storm
@ashen warren more bot shenanigans with approval, I should bring up.
crude geode
damn, rip sugg bot 
misty sigil
rip
vagrant flare
what's up
heady storm
I had to manually throw your suggestion into voting, which meant I had to also ping you manually.
vagrant flare
bot broken?
heady storm
Not working as intended rather.
vagrant flare
unfortunate
heady storm
It'll be fixed whenever its owner has the time, don't worry.
hot zephyr
I disagree wholeheartedly on the QoL suggestions; most QoL mods are actually pretty terrible
Maybe if Calamity didn't have a "vanilla changes" section on the wiki that was a literal mile long I'd agree with you
vagrant flare
the suggestion more focuses on QoL adjustments that are already implemented by other mods just fine, that is why i include the clause "present in other mods of significant size" in the header of it
hot zephyr
I know
vagrant flare
calamity has gone too far down the path of vanilla adjustments for me to say that it doesn't have a role in adjusting the vanilla game, but if other mods do an adjustment just fine, then it's silly to have calamity do it when it would not be a net gain for anyone and when such adjustment isn't at all relevant to the content itself
hot zephyr
But like I said, most QoL mods are terrible and riddle with compatability issues
There's already huge overlaps between QoL mods and Calamity
vagrant flare
give me an example
misty sigil
Most QoL mods are completely fine wdym
hot zephyr
Well, for one instance Calamity already has the Dryad selling boss summons of Vanilla items; something QoL mods cover. And for compability issues? AlchLite loves to sell Calamity potions out of order, and is filled with weird breaks, such as the Operator selling Plantera's materials if you beat Leviathan early
crude geode
Calamity is also meant to be a standalone mod.
misty sigil
Selling potions out of order?
hot zephyr
Yes
vagrant flare
alchlite is kinda hard to call a QoL mod, it has so much shit that it's practically a small content mod
misty sigil
^
vagrant flare
i am more referring to the super small mods like no more tombs or begone, evil!
misty sigil
QoL is like smart doors
vagrant flare
or better taxes, that kind of thing
hot zephyr
You could consider AlchFull a content mod, but not Lite
craggy stratus
Basically
vagrant flare
alchlite has quite a few NPCs still, it is on the line
hot zephyr
AlchLite is a QoL mod
craggy stratus
The smaller the QoL, the less chance it has compatibility issue
hot zephyr
Well tbf, Smart Doors is just backwards compatibility on a future feature
crude geode
I would like to point out, Calamity is meant to be a standalone mod. you shouldn’t have to rely on Vein miner or other mods to make mining not awful for 99% of people.
hot zephyr
Better taxes could literally just be a config slider
misty sigil
Veinminer then?
vagrant flare
i will admit though that there are some scenarios in which it would be a good idea to have calamity implement an idea itself to integrate its own compatibility, but i have seen suggestions where calamity would stand to gain nothing from implementing the suggestion
hot zephyr
Just because Veinminer exists doesn't mean Calamity couldn't do without a handful of new mining accs
Creating such a broad "don't" is a terrible idea and only serves to squash potentially good suggs by the minimodders that roam #suggestions-discussion
There's already too many "don'ts". Let the community decide with stars, and the devs decide with voting.
crude geode
^
hot zephyr
Obviously, Calamity isn't going to add Veinminer. That's just kinda common sense.
misty sigil
That's a given.
cobalt pewter
I would like to point out, *Calamity is meant to be a standalone mod.* you shoul...
We should note that Calamity isn't in a vacuum.
vagrant flare
lol i'm willing to bet that if someone were to suggest something like that and then just phrase it weird it'd get a ton of stars
hot zephyr
Really? If so, why hasn't there been one
vagrant flare
because someone has to actually suggest it first
hot zephyr
Test your theory, and sugg it.
vagrant flare
and the people making suggestions are smarter than the people voting
no, because the mods will shoot it down
hot zephyr
I guarantee it'll get ❗ 'd five minutes in
vagrant flare
hence why i said "it'd" instead of "it will"
vagrant flare
huh
hot zephyr
We've already got a system that prevents what you're trying to make a rule for
vagrant flare
???? there is nothing that says you can't suggest something other mods have and implement perfectly fine
cobalt pewter
Calamity shouldn't have every single QoL mods into itself
But that doesn't mean it can't have relatively minor QoL that are more effective in the mod's context
hot zephyr
Calamity shouldn't and won't have every QoL baked in, but creating such a broad rule over QoL suggestions is kinda bad.
Because I guarantee if that rule gets passed, someone could suggest "More mining speed accessories" and then get shot down because "lol download shitty LuiAFK"
violet minnow
tis true
hot zephyr
A handful of small QoL mods could be turned into config sliders, as well as new accessories be added that imitate other QoL items; like LuiAFK's Tool Time that makes arena building without t-edit actually feasible
vagrant flare
why should they be turned into config sliders
misty sigil
How would a slider work with something like LuiAFK's Arena Platform Builder?
Or the Skybridge Builder
vagrant flare
i can understand the point of view that the rule is too broad, i intended it specifically to say that calamity should not absorb small mods with one single QoL purpose, but it could be construed as meaning that you cannot implement any feature any other mod has
hot zephyr
New accessories, ie mining/placing speed boosts throughout progression
jovial spire
Just gonna butt in here while im eating
misty sigil
Calamity would either just have to straight up copy the idea or let it go
hot zephyr
Nonsense
misty sigil
Not at all
crude geode
Calamity exists in a vacuum because of how it handles itself. Everything is on a different power level when compared to vanilla or even other mods like thorium. Compatibility issues run amok, and the devs have taken a stance to not trying to make Calamity super compatible, in favor of making more content. I think it’s a fine and reasonable decision, but it also means Calamity should not really have to rely on other mods because compatibility issues easily arise.
misty sigil
A skybridge that goes across the entire world could be easily added with an accessory
hot zephyr
Items like Tool Time could literally be copied and pasted
hot zephyr
Good god, you're dense. I'm not talking about the skybridge builder.
jovial spire
How is getting a stack of potions to permanently apply bad
I mean, it depends on who's using it, but the game and mod both arn't built around you permanantly having the buffs you want on. they're never essential, they're supposed to be something nice you can have if you wanna grind from them.
It basically makes their entire intended design irrelevant
crude geode
Agreed.
misty sigil
Fair
jovial spire
But it's undeniable that it wasn't made with those intentions in mind.
crude geode
Calamity’s design is purely about itself, and a bit about vanilla.
misty sigil
At the same time however permanently having buffs on isn't gamebreaking
jovial spire
No, it's not
misty sigil
Especially if it's buffs you should have
jovial spire
And some people prefer to play that way. And it's their game, it's perfectly fine.
If they want to choose to play that way, it's how they want to
vagrant flare
i did not intend to say that any and all QoL features should be prohibited, the intent was to say that simple QoL features that pretty much entirely impact the base game should not be absorbed by calamity when such features are implemented perfectly fine in other mods including sufficient mod compatibility, yet i see suggestions where that exact thing is true and people want to have calamity implement something for no net gain for anyone
misty sigil
The argument that something like that is "bad" because it doesn't force you to grind is kind of stupid
jovial spire
I mean, to be fair, Terraria itself fairly largely based around grinding.
misty sigil
i did not intend to say that any and all QoL features should be prohibited, the ...
Imo Calamity shouldn't go out of their way to add things that are already done perfectly from other well-known mods
hot zephyr
LuiAFK is bad because it adds a bunch of breaks to the game: see Unlimited Mana & the combined potions taking up no buff slots
misty sigil
Unlimited Mana is cringe yeah
hot zephyr
It goes past QoL at points
jovial spire
I won't say anything like LuiAFK is bad, just not how it was originally intended to be played. Which can be a good thing, sometimes, some games make decsisons some people don't like
vagrant flare
LuiAFK is bad because it adds a bunch of breaks to the game: see Unlimited Mana ...
i agree, and it would not be a problem for calamity to implement the good parts of LuiAFK to prevent people having to download the full mod who don't want the rest of the features (assuming LuiAFK would be not configurable), but when calamity starts absorbing entire QoL mods into itself that is where we have problems
jovial spire
Like you don't enjoy grinding for potions it seems like
It make your experience, overall, more enjoyable
hot zephyr
That'll never happen though, Adol
crude geode
i did not intend to say that any and all QoL features should be prohibited, the ...
can you think of an actual example of this?
jovial spire
And that's just the point of games, to have fun, sit back, and enjoy yourself
misty sigil
Like there's a mod that removes the buff limit of 20 or whatever it is
vagrant flare
can you think of an *actual example* of this?
this is the one that prompted my suggestion
hot zephyr
But that's just... a good change. The Tax Collector is literally useless in Calamity
misty sigil
Mhm
crude geode
It's a prominent problem specifically in Calamity bc money is so much easier to obtain.
vagrant flare
why should calamity absorb it when better taxes does the exact same thing perfectly fine including support for calamity and thorium, it's a useless change that benefits nobody b/c of the existence of another mod that does the same thing that calamity has no jurisdiction over
crude geode
I was not aware better taxes even existed.
jovial spire
i agree, and it would not be a problem for calamity to implement the good parts ...
If cal wanted to implement stuff like it, it would have. But that's not the intended designed philosophy calamity has, and never will be. So it's a sperate mod for people who do want that stuff. Don't like soemthing it has? You can choose not to use it.
misty sigil
That's kind of the whole point of mods and mod configuration
vagrant flare
If cal wanted to implement stuff like it, it would have. But that's not the inte...
that is how it should be, and suggestions that do not go by that design decision should be not allowed because they waste everybody's time and make people misunderstand the intended goal of calamity
i probably did not phrase my suggestion in a manner that clears up ambiguity but that was the core intention
jovial spire
Exactly. People should be able to play the game how they want with mods. But design philosophies will inevitably clash with each other at points, and that's a consequence you have to accept when using multiple mods.
hot zephyr
The more mods you use, the greater chance of breaks and compatibility/balance issues. Calamity absorbing parts of QoL mods means that the mod becomes a more cohesive experience and is less prone to breaks/balance issues.
misty sigil
That's also a problem if it starts focusing on copy-pasting QoL mods that already exist
jovial spire
So, no, I don't think at all that Cal should just add alot of QoL stuff that doesn't fit the design philosophy of the mod. But that's what other mods are for if you're willing to accept that things will clash sometimes, maybe frequently.
misty sigil
Instead of expanding it's own content into something that's arguably better for the mod
hot zephyr
I think there's a middle ground for all of this; for example the Tax Collector was literally a waste of NPC housing, it needed some kind of buff.
vagrant flare
"Calamity absorbing parts of QoL mods" may be acceptable in some scenarios, calamity absorbing QoL mods whole is usually a bad idea
misty sigil
Yeah
vagrant flare
then i do not understand where the contention is
jovial spire
Any mods absorbing other mods that rnt made by the same dev isn't a good idea
misty sigil
And something as obscure as the Tax Collector being buffed is fine
jovial spire
hell even with the same dev it's still not a good idea most of the time
hot zephyr
It's an unnecessary rule; the scenario you're trying to avoid will never happen and creating a broad rule for the subject just adds more unnecessary hoops for creating a suggestion.
Calamity will never absorb Veinminer; but it's likely the rule could be used to shoot down suggestions because some obscure mod has already capitalized on the feature.
vagrant flare
i will entirely admit that my suggestion was not phrased perfectly, perhaps it could have used some revision to narrow down its scope, but the root goal of the suggestion was to prevent people from suggesting things that would swallow entire mods whole because calamity is not supposed to be like that
hot zephyr
Hell, the tax collector changes aren't even absorbing a QoL mod, that's just a vanilla change.
jovial spire
Anyways, just wanted to hop in and give my two cents
vagrant flare
it'd be absorbing better taxes entirely lol
crude geode
Nobody is going to suggest Calamity absorb veinminer or other mods in general into itself.
It's not like the original mods are completely gone.
jovial spire
Gonna go back to eating
misty sigil
have fun with that lmao
crude geode
(bye celest)
jovial spire
my poor burger is cold now
glass sentinel
sadge
misty sigil
rip
might order pizza or something
somehow talking about food for that short of a time got me hungry
crude geode
byech, the tax collector sugg is fine bc Calamity specifically makes it more obscure than it even is in vanilla.
and most people aren't going to be aware of better taxes
vagrant flare
it does have 120,000 downloads
crude geode
and how many does calamity have?
vagrant flare
not comparable
crude geode
mhm
vagrant flare
willing to bet you that most calamity players dont care about the tax collector and never get it, and they still wouldn't if calamity absorbed better taxes whole
frankly 120,000 downloads is pretty crazy for a mod about an NPC that nobody ever talks about or uses to begin with and absorbing it into calamity wouldn't benefit calamity at all
crude geode
frankly, there's not too much of a point to this anymore, the sugg is in posting and we've discussed the topic to death. People will be opposed to it, and some will support it. The votes and the devs decide now.
vagrant flare
i mean ya to be fair the developers know what features are implemented just fine by other mods and what aren't, the suggestion is less to try and stop threats to the mod or other mods since the devs will probably never implement something that would just be absorbing other mods whole, it is more to just stop people from wasting their time suggesting things that shouldn't be suggested in the first place
that is the whole point of the "don't"s page regardless
crude geode
based on the comments in here from me and Ian, the tax collector should have been suggested, but according to you it shouldn't have. Difference of opinion.
Unlike that opinionated thing, we can all agree that "Add Waifu Stone 3000 made with Shadowspec Bars" is really awful.
and those types of suggestions should be a don't.
hollow sierra
that drill unit sugg, mining power doesn't really do anything, what it would do is allow it to destroy uelibloom and auric, not a big deal given its purpose is mass excavation, which it is faster at than the blossom pickaxe
vagrant flare
it is a don't
craggy stratus
About the boss drop, this is kinda like a dilemma
If you make the boss drop better than the material that the boss unlock for new weapon, there is no reason to make material-weapon
crude geode
^
craggy stratus
Mayhaps
hollow sierra
am i wrong in saying alot of the vanilla drops are untouched because they're hard to mod
crude geode
yes.
cobalt pewter
Some are
Like the funne jumps being basically hardcoded
A lot of things are hardcoded actually
Fookin
crude geode
Vanilla drops though? Like weapons?
You can just modify damage, knockback, use time, etc.
it's not as difficult as removing evil spreading
craggy stratus
but, why did this sugg saying golem’s drop is viable
crude geode
in vanilla
" I think vanilla makes boss drops worth it, such as EoL drops, Duke drops, Golem drops, etc"
craggy stratus
still ah didnt see that
crude geode
mhm
dim star
I just had a great idea, what about bullets that make your summons attack whatever they hit
I’m not making it a real suggestion but it seems like a good idea
crude geode
you already have the right click of summoner, and I feel like doing any more would be kinda difficult.
dim star
I guess so
crude geode
Ravager is kind of god awful. The only reason I think people remember him is highly detailed sprite, him being a funny post-golem pre-cultist forgettable boss, or funny spikecrag staff. His theming is already done better elsewhere (the crimson is all about blood and flesh), his boss fight is a complete mess where you have to deal with like almost 8 different body parts and 3 different pairs of projectiles, and he's just a resource grinder that gives you CotBG and some (imo) forgettable weapons.
craggy stratus
Hmm
crude geode
Like, lorewise it's p cool, but in game it's a terribly forgettable fight that you might even not do on a first playthrough.
craggy stratus
ravager does feel like a aureus copy, but worse
In my 1st pt
Its hovering doesnt make sense either
dim star
I think he’s good post providence but I didn’t even know he was able to be fought before then until a recent playthrough
crude geode
idk why it even fires lasers, it's a pile of corpses smashed together
one good acc doesn't mean it's actually memorable or good 
dim star
He’s that forgettable
crude geode
It just means the acc he drops is good.
It honestly says a lot that people bring up his accessories more than fighting him or the boss in general.
cobalt pewter
To be honest, the concentration of bosses post Golem contribute a lot
unreal viper
Ravager fires lasers because golem does
Yeah
3
And cultist is easier than all of them
cobalt pewter
Post Golem you technically have:
- OG Duke
- PBG
- Ravager
- T3 OOA, and to the extent, Betsy
- Cultist (most likely the one players go to in this list first)
crude geode
i'm at least glad ravager is less of a golem copy now
T3 OOA 
The problem with Rav is that there's no fanfare or anything special about him. Duke Fishron you have to go out of your way to get his summon, and PBG has a whole thing with infecting the jungle. Meanwhile Ravager is just there, you summon him, kill him, end.
cobalt pewter
Rav is still a golem copy imo
PBG imo has no buildup at all imo
Everything plague just
Showed up
Post Golem
crude geode
It's at least better than Golem dies, ok fight Golem 2
unreal viper
Thousands of lines of unique code
crude geode
^
unreal viper
But yeah.
cobalt pewter
Honestly kinda wanna see rav to be repurposed to be another Crags boss tbh
unreal viper
Cultist bring easy is part of the problem imo
crude geode
~~cultist needs to summon adult eidolyn worm ~~
cobalt pewter
Phantasmal Dragon is replaced with AEW 
unreal viper
Speaking of cultist
Did the thing where he creates clones regardless of whether you succeed or fail get removed?
cobalt pewter
No
crude geode
sugg buffing LC in general tbh.
cobalt pewter
I already sugg to make ritual around the player instead of on a fixed position come at me fargo simps
crude geode
That's not a buff that's a nerf
A reasonable nerf, but a nerf to a ridiculously easy roadbump nonetheless.
cobalt pewter
I mean it could be considered with other buffs
crude geode
for each boss you haven't defeated post golem, an extra LC is present during the fight
agreed.
cobalt pewter
I think I suggested a thing where Cultist gets stronger the less HM bosses defeated
hot zephyr
Wouldn't mind if the Cultist literally shot instadeath ML lasers if you haven't beaten any HM bosses 
As much as I love the mod's insistence on being non-linear in Hardmode, a lot of content is not only optional, it's to a point where spending time on it is a waste
crude geode
On my next playthrough I should see if I can just skip all the hardmode bosses and throw myself at the pillars
unreal viper
You can
In fact I think It’s the most efficient way
Even if you aren’t a speed runner
heady storm
:Yay:
golden narwhal
hot zephyr
Couldn't you just go Plant with portabulb, do Golem, and then Cultists pretty easily?
Sure, you'll miss out on a lot of upgrades, but you'd be able to go back and fight everything else you missed with Phastasm + Holy Arrow
cobalt pewter
As Stealth rogue, you only really need ruin medallion and skyfin bomber to erase cultist
So 2 bosses caps
heady storm
Oh so there's only a title.
heady storm
Ignore me embedding the emote.
zealous ridge
the sequence break thing is just major issue with terraria in its inherent progression-based focus alongside its openness as a sandbox
They step over each other
like who the fuck cares about any other weapon if you can relatively easily kill cultist with pretty easily obtainable gear
from there, just use any celestial items to obliterate anything else in their way
Cultist being way stronger if you didnt kill certain bosses would make it way more difficult to just beat him with mech tier items
perhaps a healing ability that becomes weaker with previous bosses defeated
basically a sort of dps check
But if you’re resourceful or able to do something really difficult you could partially cancel the heal and make it easier to keep chipping him down
cobalt pewter
The point is that it should be more challenging to do cultist pre mech yes, and no, I don't think giving the boss healing ability would do the job, since sequence breaking would be particularly impossible
Just making him statistically stronger the less HM bosses you defeated would do imo
zealous ridge
somewhat depends on implementation
idk
like it would have to be way stronger
Not fucking one shot impossible
but easy to make like 2 mistakes In succession and you die
languid quartz
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/778717286609453106 hey @heady storm, didn't this reach the requirement? I noticed the bot is down, so that might have been the problem, or maybe I missed something
(not my sugg, I was just scrolling up for something else)
languid quartz
okay, sorry
heady storm
Yeah I can't deliver suggestions, yet.
radiant meadow
I spy UltimateSmug emote 
Also, I wasn't aware Golem drops were used besides Possessed Hatchet
And a good amount of Cal boss drops are very good
dapper coral
oh yeah this is waaaayyy too general
if we assume 5 drops per boss you've just gone and said that well over 100 weapons are not worth using
you need to start with specifics
ashen warren
He did say Provi and Deus drops, but still too general I think
zenith hazel
they can’t all be bad
dapper coral
i mean he could say "make provi's weapons more interesting" but he can't do 100++++ weapons
radiant meadow
Microwave is good iirc
earnest cape
microwave good yes 
cobalt pewter
Microwave, Godspawn Helix are gud from Deus
zenith hazel
I agree on some cases like telluric glare but like
dapper coral
and imo it's not valid to mention legendaries, they're supposed to be way better than everything else at that tier so of course you would use them if you could
radiant meadow
Regulus riot is braindead free homing
Can't go wrong with that
zenith hazel
naw
dapper coral
and so of course boss drops would be worse than legendaries
cobalt pewter
As for provi, I don't particularly find any of her weapon drops interesting
So yech
radiant meadow
Most of them are ancient
cobalt pewter
Hm fair
For Golem, only hatchet is common yes
His weapon drops otherwise are garb iirc
radiant meadow
Staff of the Earth is killer wdym
dim star
I think the people that say “boss items are bad” are tryhards and just use the meta items
People use them all the time
Most things in terraria are designed to be good the first time you experience it
dim star
First time players don’t just go “this weapon and boss are bad I shouldn’t beat them”
Weapons don’t have to be the best item at that stage of the game to be used
radiant meadow
Stynger is good in vanilla
Dunno how it holds up in Cal
dim star
My first playthrough I used whatever item I wanted because they looked really cool not because they did a lot of dps
Boss items usually look really cool
earnest cape
my b
earnest cape
the possessed hatchet is the embodiment of decent
sand umbra
(don't you look at me like that. go on, tell me to my face you've ever unironically used Heat Ray over something else)
earnest cape
whole sedge
(heat ray exists?)
sand umbra
(precisely my point)
dude people don't even remember the weapon exists half the time
unless they need it to craft something
earnest cape
(free money)
sand umbra
that is how bad and irrelevant Heat Ray is, okay
(and it doesn't help its case that Razorpine and Blizzard Staff exist)
(never mind the like 10 Calamity magic weapons around that point that outclass it in every department)
earnest cape
(and plus duke around the same stage has a much better weapon)
earnest cape
never used it
sand umbra
(nobody uses Bubble Gun)
earnest cape
razorblade epic and iconic
sand umbra
(not necessarily because it's bad, it's actually pretty stupid if you can stay consistent with it if I remember rightly, but because Razorblade is so much better)
earnest cape
(yeah cause razorpine has much higher fire rate, damage output and range)
radiant meadow
Heat Ray is only good when Yrimir uses it to shred 1.2 destroyer iirc
Other than that, it's like never used
At least, I think he had a vid on that
earnest cape
the terraria community:
jovial spire
Yrimir's performance is an outlier and should not be counted
you're an outlier and your sugs shouldn't be counted
earnest cape
^
sand umbra
...eh, I've heard better comebacks
although statistically you are correct
within the...the fuck is it, like 80k people in this discord?
I consistently make at least one suggestion a week
and I'm pretty sure most people don't do that
so statistically, yes, I am an outlier
(what separates me from the other significant outliers is that I don't make multiple suggs in rapid succession
I give them time to live and exist between each other and time for other people to make suggs as well)
((those who do it know who they are and should be well aware that I'm cyberbullyin' them by pointin' this out so it's fine))
vagrant flare
hard to read with all that strikethrough
earnest cape
Then you are not worthy
vagrant flare
dang I've been had
sand umbra
...I feel like I came here to make a sugg but now I don't remember what it was
vagrant flare
hmm i feel like when you have a discord server filled with 80,000 terraria players, anyone with a working head on their shoulders is most definitely an outlier
dim star
That’s why I’m not labeled an outlier
tawny garden
all at once, as if you have 100 hands
manic aspen
i wanna download that emoji but i cant
tawny garden
earnest cape
~~all at once, as if you have 100 hands~~
^^^ basically
earnest cape
haha yes
earnest cape
tawny garden
<:CompleteFailure:280439310186971146>
yes but 10 hands is still a lot
manic aspen
thanks
cobalt pewter
you can bundle them in your palm tbh, they're smol
earnest cape
~~yes but 10 hands is still a lot~~
maybe the player just pulled a stand, used za warudo and threw them all without the player seeing cause it all happened so fast
tawny garden
(remove the ping pls
I don't mind it, but other people do)
cobalt pewter
Jokes aside, the ones that do these really do work on stealth
Like Sticky Spiky Balls are super effective on stealth vs Hive Mind
earnest cape
(remove the ping pls
I don't mind it, but other people do)
it already happened and it's so much harder to remove it now :/
cobalt pewter
And Nychthemeron are just pretty pogger to use throughout most of the HM
But post ML ones generally suck on stealth because the lack of multiple throws
tawny garden
uhhhhhhhhhuhuhuuuhuhuhuh
so the reply turns a linebreak to a space
that's dumb
anyway
earnest cape
yeah it's discord after all but anyway
cobalt pewter
Either way, aside from like 3-4 weapons, spiky balls kinna suck
earnest cape
who even uses them honestly
cobalt pewter
me, on some occassions
earnest cape
kreinge
hot zephyr
within the...the fuck is it, like 80k people in this discord?
Sure there's 80k people here, but literally 79925 are just lurkers here for #changelogs and #mod-downloads, and rarely #help-advice-read-pins
tawny garden
87442 members, to be exact
of these most are bloat
god, I'm calling people "bloat"
limber ocean
kinda sounds like you're one step away from Thanos
tawny garden
🤌
hot zephyr
hardy dock
My hatred for those turrets runs deep.
cobalt pewter
Me when I do parkour just to hit these turrets
hot zephyr
Step number 1. Build bed outside lab
Step number 2. Kamikaze
tawny garden
Step 2 sounds scary
copper turret
step 2 is mandatory
violet minnow
Sure there's 80k people here, but literally 79925 are just lurkers here for <#36...
there are people, but just sending 100 messages makes you one of the most active 10% probably
violet minnow
ye i have 2k rn, but have only been here for a month
frail mantle
generally in servers most of the members will never speak
violet minnow
sad but true
violet minnow
Step number 1. Build bed outside lab
Step number 2. Kamikaze
i kinda wish there was a more direct way to approach labs, making it so you had to deal with the turrets, but also making them less annoying
frail mantle
like, for example Ein has i believe over 200k messages in this server, but most members probably have less than five thousand
sharp prism
like, for example Ein has i believe over 200k messages in this server, but most ...
thats true
wait
why did i reply if youre right above mine
frail mantle
good question
violet minnow
hyped for puzzels
violet minnow
like, for example Ein has i believe over 200k messages in this server, but most ...
whos ein
frail mantle
ancient member
used to be a mod
he has 185k, though he probably has more if you include mod corner
violet minnow
yep found them, 150k on channels i have acess to
frail mantle
i believe he has the highest message count in the server besides fab
byech offtopic
cobalt pewter
After reading future bosses page, this sugg got a missed opportunity of mentioning an additional, but optional reasoning, about the acc originally being used to summon a Future Boss version of LC
ashen warren
logically speaking draedon would have extremely high security for his labs
weak field
And turrets attack through walls probably makes sense too
ashen warren
maybe like
weak field
Since almost all enemies target you through walls
ashen warren
nerf turrets but add more variety of defenses
make draedon's lab a bullet hell boss fight
weak field
Byech that's probably a bad idea
But the current lab does'nt work either
Since the lab stuff can shoot through blocks and you probably can't
violet minnow
i have a lab rework sugg somewhere
hot zephyr
It'd be nice if there were more ways to approach them rather than brute force. Invisibility potions to pass by security, or perhaps an electrical box you could shoot that's inside the lab that'd disable the turrets for a few seconds
craggy stratus
i wish we can still bomb the lab
frozen night
shouldn't astrum aurues get nerfed in a way?
like
the armour seems to high
i am suffering with post lunatic gear to fight him
violet minnow
he was
frozen night
i feel like every golem boss ( like astrum and ravager ) is too annoying
its not fun
to fight them
violet minnow
rav is intresting
frozen night
but even worse
violet minnow
when he goes up to do the big ground slam, you can hit him but he cant hit you
frozen night
what about astrum
frozen night
lol
rose jewel
Ravager is fun until he’s not
tawny garden
sharp prism
aureus and deus are fun ravager isnt
hot zephyr
I hate the astral bosses, they're far too tanky
ashen warren
aureus is pretty tanky
rose jewel
Aureus is kind of annoying to fight but is fun
ashen warren
and aureus in boss rush is kinda rigged when it spams those homing projectiles
limber ocean
Deus feels like it has too much (nigh-)immunity time when its second phase starts
tawny garden
Ian has better taste than dank
hot zephyr
A boss at that progression doesn't need that high HP/DR
Aureus should be no more health/DR than Golem
ashen warren
What about Fishron wings can be fished up after duke Fishron is dead?
So that you don’t gotta rely on the treasure bags
heady storm
Do all of his other drops follow that already?
ashen warren
None of his drops can be fished up so they could also be added too but that wouldn’t make as much sense
Duke Fishron explodes into a bunch of pieces on death which are likely to end up in the ocean
hollow sierra
but so does leviathan, and aquatic scorge
ashen warren
Well possibly they could add some of their drops?
hollow sierra
just seems like clutter
and if you've already beaten a boss once you have stronger gear to beat it again more easily
golden narwhal
I mean, I don't see why it needs to be that way, considering
- what chetto said
- fishron wings aren't needed for anything
- there are other good wings available at that tier
dim star
oh true
ashen warren
Fishing in calamity mainly serves to provide a alternative source to items
hollow sierra
and if you're a 200IQ mega pro gamer that really doesn't have time for the petty rabble of grinding fishron wings, just turn on armageddon and get 6x loot
ashen warren
Yeah but Armageddon is a option for every thing and of course most players can’t do hitless
hollow sierra
That's why its an optional high risk high reward item
one would assume by the time you get frustrated with your drop luck, you've also fought the boss enough to do no-hits fairly regularly
ashen warren
Ehhh
Armageddon just isn’t a option for some players
Or alternatively another crate could be added for the ocean (would be removed in 1.4 tho)
hollow sierra
what if, grand design, but for blocks
or maybe just add a block option to grand design and then it takes the first block in your hotbar or something
ashen warren
Would be pretty cool
hollow sierra
i think my only concern with that would be to make sure it works with the actuator part of grand design
or atleast works if you have presserator equipped, but presserator and gizmo pack would likely be the other components of the item
and to facilitate specifically yharon needing a huge amount of space, much more than any other boss, you could perhaps make a cosmolite drill unit
devourer of rocks 
@crystal iron What do you think
crystal iron
Ye I think that's cool cuz I think I had a discussion with someone else that drill containment unit is worthless after moonlord
sand umbra
if I had a consistently active spriter for every sugg I've seen made about the summon penalty being ass-backwards I would never need to ask for spriters again
unreal viper
Why did the sugg get rejected
Anyway
@hollow shell
The reversed summon penalty one
sand umbra
because funny tester workload go brrrr
unreal viper
hollow shell
Long convo, some in support and some against
iirc they said that it would enforce a summoner meta, as they would have all the free DPS while other classes got cucked
tawny garden
if I had a consistently active spriter for every sugg I've seen made about the s...
that's like
50 spriters
sand umbra
(and yet a re-evaulation of the entire post-ML power curve, which requires rebalancing literally over 200 items, can get through...)
tawny garden
or more
sand umbra
iirc they said that it would enforce a summoner meta, as they would have all the free DPS while other classes got cucked
I wish I could tell you how fucking funny this is
you can't even begin to tell me that makes sense
in a situation where you need to make sure multiclassing with summoner isn't busted
in what universe, pray goddamn tell, does it make sense to punish the summoner for wanting to actually fucking do something
meanwhile, the ones that build for otherclass damage can still use summons for free damage without worrying about getting their damage fucked
it's not gonna "encourage a summoner meta"
that is the flimsiest possible argument I could've heard given that, and I will say this once and only once
as far as I or anyone else can tell, the point of the summon penalty is to make sure summon-based mutliclassing isn't busted
non-summoner monoclassing is not affected by this penalty
in the slightest
the penalty purely affects multiclassing and oftentimes a summoner's ability to actually contribute anything of value to a fight
(the final "classless weapon" i.e. active summoner wep in disguise that's usable consistently is Yanmei's Knife and even that doesn't last forever progression-wise)
hollow shell
@foggy plover @radiant meadow @spiral olive @tired haven y'all were the ones involved in the conversation about this in dev
@hearty yew too
the sugg in question
foggy plover
creates an imbalance either way
sand umbra
that is the problem I outlined back when I made my sugg and will gladly outline again
the fact that in a case of 5-class stuff, the summoner is the only one to be noticeably penalized for wanting to multiclass to the point of it being not worth it
unreal viper
Yes
foggy plover
my argument was it needs to go both ways depending on what class you are trying to main
unreal viper
Currently it benefits all other classes
foggy plover
because just flipping it is just as bad of a solution as what we have rn
radiant meadow
oh umm, I barely even remember what I said
sand umbra
a summoner should not be sizably penalized for wanting to contribute something of value to a fight instead of just sitting there like an idiot and waiting for their summons to do things
hollow shell
for devs/testers, here's the convo: #583478640679845889 message
sand umbra
(and what's funny is that this would not be a problem, in the slightest, if more active summons existed)
(more things like Borealis Bomber)
hollow shell
@finite orchid Bad
tawny garden
not in the middle of this
sand umbra
(if there were actual active summons throughout the game we wouldn't even be having this conversation, because then the summon penalty wouldn't really be as significant to overall playstyle restrictions)
hollow shell
Yeah I'll just get rid of it so we can focus on Thomas
finite orchid
Aww
radiant meadow
but also maybe say, why it's Bad instead of just saying Bad
Anyways, meme suggestions aren't allowed
hollow shell
Yeah cuz it's a meme
finite orchid
Thanks?
It was partially joking, but I still think it would be a good idea for april fools
crystal iron
i actually do think there should be more weapons like borealis bomber, cuz that way there woulnt be a need for changing the summoner nerf (kind of) and it would create a playable sub class
radiant meadow
oh yeah, flipping the summoner nerf forces multiclass to build specifically for summoner
spiral olive
i remember i had this to say about it, and i think i will still stand with my reasoning. I believe if the scaling was flipped it would make summoner hands down the best class and basically kill the whole point of making summoner a standalone class.
tawny garden
hot take: Borealis Bomber is just a magic weapon
tawny garden
but with a summoner badge slapped on, you're right
sand umbra
okay but that's what active summons are bound to be
the only significant difference between an active summon and any magic weapon is that you can tell the active summon is a summon
this isn't a bad thing
because active summons are thematically the only way you're gonna get to actually do anything as a pure summoner without reworking the class significantly
spiral olive
this was another concern of mine, and ill have to get back to this later since im doing schoolwork right now, so if there's anything else you'd like me to add just ping me and i'll get back to it later
unreal viper
That just kills multiclasing in general I guess
sand umbra
but even that has the potential to backfire horribly and just put us right back at square one regarding how good summon-based multiclassing is compared to other multiclassing types
verbal plank
Out of nowhere, but parhaps if Summoners actually had control over there summons this wouldn't be a problem in the first place. Considering half the time you're relying on dumb as fuck AI to hit and without other mods there's pretty much nothing you can do about it
Whips also help with this being a active summon weapon, but it would probably require a massive summon rebalance to make sure they aren't completely overpowered (ala 1.4.1)
hollow shell
s'too bad 1.4 didn't just
implement Summoner's Association
tawny garden
hollow shell
Literally that one tool which places a target where you click, and your summons shoot at it with top priority
s'all you need
crystal iron
Ye but imo that thing is hard to aim with fast bosses
sleek girder
i mean i think there should be more whip style things added, but not just whips
tawny garden
or maybe it's all planned and they actually want summons to be uncontrollable 
sleek girder
like a gun that shoots something, does summon damage, and your summons attack it with increased damage
so like the whip but gun
verbal plank
and in turn make the class extremely frustrating, especially early game
I've said it before and I still stand by it, you need some control over summons. Not saying we need full on targeting systems but just some way to nudge them where they need to be and actually listen
sand umbra
Literally that one tool which places a target where you click, and your summons shoot at it with top priority
s'all you need
I seem to recall Calamity summons in particular being a coin flip as to whether or not they actually respect targeting
verbal plank
The only real way you can do that is to just keep cancelling and resummoning
They don't at all
sand umbra
some of them follow it like a religion and the rest of them do not care
verbal plank
I still think the idea of a "resummon counter" being implemented. Basically having a timer before being able to resummoned, being balanced per summon
foggy plover
I just hope
all of the summoner multiclass problems go away with 1.4
which they might considering whips
sleek girder
whip gun as i said
verbal plank
You say that as if we're getting tmodloader 1.4
sleek girder
has the whip effect but less damage but at a range
foggy plover
well
whats the point of fixing something when were just gonna have more cards added to the table later
its not that far off
verbal plank
so you want a ranged weapon
craggy stratus
Ah this sugg is the same as thomas’s
verbal plank
like howd you whip a minon to train it
craggy stratus
Huh?
sleek girder
are you whipping the minion though?
verbal plank
guns don't make any sense for a summon weapon