but they still powerful
#suggestions-discussion
golden narwhal
Tbh that does sound interesting if they were locked to a certain position so you could actually target one
glass sentinel
as 2 buffed donuts may be too much
Tbh that does sound interesting if they were locked to a certain position so you could actually target one
i imagined them as moons around providence
hot zephyr
Either you stand still and get yeeted by contact damage from the minions, try to dodge around them and get fucked by cocoon phases or dodge backwards and HAVE YOUR SCREEN GET BLACKED OUT, AND THEN YOU GET HIT WITH ALL OF THE ABOVE
Back when Fab was talking about the screen darkening mechanic, he worded it as if it was a "warning" to prevent accidental ticks of holy fire damage
glass sentinel
fair
hot zephyr
But when it hit the live build, it's basically "oh you left the area by a few blocks? not only are you gonna get hit by one of the strongest DoTs in the game, you'll be blinded so you can't see projectiles
the blindness needs to be like... 10% of it's current strength
Or scrap it, and replace it with a different warning system
glass sentinel
this reminds me of someone complaining about provi's fight feeling like pure proj spam
and that it being ass
but provi's fight as of now is already very balanced and fair
glass sentinel
ah you have 1 row of plats? fuck you
hot zephyr
Like, minetracks are already better, why does there need to be a punish for platforms
And why do they have to last for a small eternity. Want to make post-ml bosses require smaller arenas? That's how
glass sentinel
do a cata and use actuators
hot zephyr
is actuator tricking allowed in nohits
earnest cape
"ah you prefer platforms to minetracks? fuck you"
this is very true unless you run in a straight line non stop world long
glass sentinel
thats impossible
earnest cape
or just go to a different platform
glass sentinel
as provi will go back and forth
hot zephyr
B L O B S P A M I N T E N S I F I E S
earnest cape
just not in a straight line continuosly
hot zephyr
Oops! No adrenaline!
earnest cape
please no more trauma
hot zephyr
Oh, you enjoy iframes? Haha iframe bypass goes BRRRRR
hot zephyr
It's like they said "Y'know, let's put every dumb gimmick into one fight"
earnest cape
also the blinding 
tawny garden
is actuator tricking allowed in nohits
I don't think it's specifically prohibited, but you might ged DQed if you gain too much advantage from your tricks
earnest cape
haha yes insta kill without you knowing 
hot zephyr
blindness, minion spawning during bullet hell phases, iframe bypassing, trap mines
hot zephyr
"gotta ban hellbridges in WoF no-hits because it makes the fight easier" also "hmm yes you can use actuators to filter out mines"
cobalt pewter
Speaking of provi, I still don't understand how to dodge her lance shits
earnest cape
Speaking of provi, I still don't understand how to dodge her lance shits
she shoots her lances in a counter-clockwise pattern and she shoots another set of spears that follow you
also yeah with proper timing you can move through the spears
cobalt pewter
Yeah I'm doing provi in hell atm
As summoner
And I kinda wanna just godmode when the donuts are alive
earnest cape
use the plague nuke engine
earnest cape
damn
cobalt pewter
Added that pre-1.4 Stardust Guardian is so shit that I had to move it away when dodging the stars
earnest cape
haha yes 1.4 stardust stand guardian
earnest cape
I agree
would be so much better if a guardian doesn't try to ram you at mach speeds while provi's doing her cocoon flame
eternal escarp
god i agree with this, i feel like i just need to pray i survive since i feel like you cant avoid getting hit like that
golden narwhal
i hope this is a good indicator for when it goes into voting
eternal escarp
when what goes into voting, this statement?
golden narwhal
My sugg
tawny garden
lol @cobalt pewter nobody likes your sugg about nerfing menacing
earnest cape
heady storm
Balancing required? Go enlist testers instead because the public will disagree.
tawny garden
Yeah
cobalt pewter
Yeah I already expected that the menacing sugg won't go stellar or something
tawny garden
But I didn't expect it to sink so much
golden narwhal
It's for balancing, people of the public 
tawny garden
It's the least starred sugg in the past like 4 or 5 months
cobalt pewter
wow
golden narwhal
oof
earnest cape
wow
earnest cape
if it does there will be international backlash 
real steppe
thank god people are now noticing how annoying Provi's blindness is
eternal escarp
i think the blindness is great, but i think it shouldn't 100% blind you (if its possible to do like, a middle ground?)
heady storm
I think it shouldn't have existed at all.
heady storm
Tons of projectiles on screen + inability to see = total mess when recovering.
golden narwhal
It could work well as an indicator tbh
eternal escarp
the only reason i actually like the concept is the fact it lets me know im outside the range
earnest cape
if they really wanted they could've just made a visible ring to indicate the range
eternal escarp
yeah indicator might be a better option tho, completly agreed
earnest cape
instead of blinding the plater which is really punishing
golden narwhal
Just weaker darkness and more gradual
heady storm
Holy Inferno could do something else that doesn't make you blind is the thing.
serene fox
providence gets a fargo's style ring when
earnest cape
Holy Inferno could do something else that doesn't make you blind is the thing.
serene fox
would still be useless tbh
modern arrow
6% melee speed 
serene fox
eternal escarp
i think it would actually count when its above 10%, and then it might be broken
golden narwhal
25% movement speed when
eternal escarp
maybe a life regen reforge when
modern arrow
Now all we need is a weapon that does damage based on movement speed
eternal escarp
but seriously now, i think just buffing other forges isnt gonna help
modern arrow
Why wouldn’t it
eternal escarp
i mean, if its just by 1-2%, people would still prefer more dmg percentage (i think)
modern arrow
Well you’d have to run the numbers see what the dps outcome is
modern arrow
But just because menacing still might be better doesn’t mean it’s fruitless to make the other ones stronger
Like it would still be ok for it to be the best one
crude geode
Arcane lol.
cobalt pewter
Arcane is unepic
earnest cape
since when was it epic
modern arrow
Arcane giving mana regen 👀
manic aspen
oooo
crude geode
Mage actually getting a set of modifiers instead of a single one.
manic aspen
epic
eternal escarp
Arcane giving mana regen 👀
@modern arrow i actually stand by this, would make arcane worth going for imo
serene fox
would it
eternal escarp
since endgame you basically have full mana, so more regen would be nice i think
manic aspen
they should probably be separate modifiers yeah
crude geode
against menacing ofc not
modern arrow
Just to make it a viable reforge at all
I feel like it would be nice for the early game mage to have a buffed arcane accessory
eternal escarp
or as wombat said, a diffrent forge
modern arrow
Idk if I’m the calamity dev I feel like I don’t want to add so many new forges
The stealth one is cool imo because it’s directly related to the original content in the mod
manic aspen
a jump reforge
eternal escarp
uh, thats just accesories themselves
serene fox
lets try and make current modifiers useful
earnest cape
join joost and add impractically large reforge 
manic aspen
what about quick modifier
cobalt pewter
Joost reforges are dumb
modern arrow
You could add jump speed to movement speed
cobalt pewter
modern arrow
4% movement + jump speed
manic aspen
4℅ jump spd
earnest cape
quick
manic aspen
all reforges should have additional effects
eternal escarp
i wouldnt say all
manic aspen
it makes them feel way more powerful
eternal escarp
menacing is, well, already pry broken
crude geode
you could also make reforges unique besides just. damage +1,2,3, or the actually useful 4%
modern arrow
Crit chance is at least ok already, maybe just increase the number
manic aspen
nah its fine
crude geode
Ye, got nerfed for a reason.
daring imp
whoms've dare summoning me
hollow sierra
arcane should have mana usage reduction ontop
violent should affect all weapons
fleeting should give all types of speed
menacing should be unchanged so every other modifier can be balanced around it, as warding and lucky was
/end rant
and if we're trying to decide what amount of mana usage reduction can compete with 4% damage or 3% crit, we're probably talking 10-12% reduction
just with some quick head math
hollow sierra
only 70%, yeah
hardy dock
Either a 70% decrease to all mana consumption, or a 28% increase in damage
hollow sierra
factor in how much time that'd save you from being in mana sickness on high cost weapons, that would be more valuable than 28% damage
hollow sierra
but there would be a line of consumption where one is better than the other
eternal escarp
10% is a bit over kill, unless you also count armour / other mage accesories in that math
hollow sierra
menacing on low cost weapons and arcane on high cost
hardy dock
I think 4% mana consumption reduction is fair
hollow sierra
that's nothing
hollow sierra
you have to keep in mind how it plays into how much mana sickness you're getting and when it would be more or less valuable than 4% straight from menacing
hardy dock
Plus the +20 mana from Vanilla
hollow sierra
0 and 28%, yes
hardy dock
Only if you don't use the extra mana items
hollow sierra
if you're using things that take mana, you're using a mage armor
what mage armor doesn't give extra mana
hardy dock
So why is 4% reduction tiny, but 4% damage huge?
hollow sierra
because of how mana sickness works
hardy dock
Elaborate
ashen warren
because damage does not softcap like DR does
hardy dock
We're talking mana consumption
ashen warren
oh
hardy dock
Not Damage resist
hollow sierra
mana sickness reduces your damage, the mana reduction you get from arcane should reduce the time you spend in sickness such that its benefit is equal or greater than menacing's 4%
atleast on high mana cost weapons
ashen warren
don't use high mana cost weapons
hollow sierra
the higher the mana cost the more menacings you wanna change to arcane
hardy dock
Well in the endgame all mage weapons cost high mana
hollow sierra
some cost alot more than others
compare yharim's crystal to dance of light for example
massive difference
hardy dock
I do think that 28% is fine
ashen warren
yharim's crystal is bad anyway
hardy dock
Reducing the Yharim's Crystal's mana cost would be great though
hollow sierra
I think the only way you could make a case for 4% reduction per modifier is that starting with a low number for testing purposes and then increasing it later when its shown to not be enough to contend with menacing
hardy dock
It's a mage exclusive modifier so it automatically does worse
ashen warren
the thing is dance of light is a post scal weapon where yharim's crystal isnt
not really a fair comparison
hardy dock
Also yharim's crystal is designed to have a high cost
ashen warren
it does need a rework
hardy dock
I'm just saying that it was designed to have a high cost compared to other weapons of its tier
Use the Voltaic Climax or a Vivid Clarity as a better example
hollow sierra
so you'd take more arcanes when using yharim's crystal to compensate for its weakness whereas you'd take more menacing for those other weapons because they're lower damage
hardy dock
They're both extremely strong on their own
hollow sierra
irrelevant
hardy dock
I personally would take arcane
so you'd take more arcanes when using yharim's crystal to compensate for its weakness whereas you'd take more menacing for those other weapons because they're lower damage
@hollow sierra not irrelevant
hollow sierra
modifiers are for minmaxing, a weapon being "good" on its own is irrelevant to the modifier metagame
that's all related to weapon balance
ashen warren
is there any high mana cost weapons in endgame?
hardy dock
Yes
hollow sierra
define endgame
hardy dock
Fabstaff is one of the best weapons in the game for bossrush
hollow sierra
spammy weapons do win out unfortunately
ashen warren
aint it just a necromantic beam with high damage
hardy dock
Frankly the Dance of Light is a little disappointing
ashen warren
or did it get changed somehow
hardy dock
Checking rq
Well its faster
It costs 50 mana
And it would appear to ignore iframes
ashen warren
that sounds op
hardy dock
Amen
ashen warren
let me test the weapon real quick
dance of light does more dps on a single target dummy?
ashen warren
do they take more damage from the weapon or something
ashen warren
uh dance of light got to 300k dps but the fabstaff got to 200k
hardy dock
Wait really?
ashen warren
yeah
ashen warren
actually no dance of light averages around 100k
might have gotten 300k because it hit smaller minions or something
pine star
I guess the brothers are undead monstrosities and are basically literally mindless?
But I still agree with the suggestion
cobalt pewter
To be fair
Yeh
But ig she controls them? And at least they should be a bit more aggressive in that case???
pine star
Yeah
dim star
what if they do different things when one of them dies
like
they both dash but they have attacks at the same time
maybe catastrophe could do something with brimstone flames while dashing
ashen warren
give them death mode twins AI 🤔
dim star
yeah maybe
ashen warren
homing projectiles
dim star
i think them shooting projectiles while dashing might be good
ashen warren
no that would be chaotic
dim star
so you have to dodge the dashing and brimstone flames at the same time
yeah thats the point
ashen warren
considering you have two of em
ashen warren
seems fine to me
but how would the projectiles be fired
angled at you? homing? or in the direction of the charge
dim star
maybe it could shoot out of the sides
because most of the time you would be dodging in that area
sharp prism
i think the suggest is fine
ashen warren
in other matters, can we talk about reworking or flat out removing sepulcher because it adds a ton of rng in scal
like you could be shooting for the orbs but the worm gets in the way and negates all your attacks
dim star
yeah i think it needs a rework
ashen warren
and its AI is so unpredictable
legit you dont even know which direction it would go
ashen warren
and it spams projectiles that are slower than the usual darts so they just linger within the arena for a longer period of time?
sharp prism
change your title
to just "change the earth elemental to replace one of the sand elementals in the HoTE"
or smth
nvm i actually read it
this is a sis
hollow sierra
wasn't this also being sugged a few days ago
craggy stratus
yeah, but that sugg is add, not replace
sharp prism
sleek turret
the latest suggestion kinda looks like very specific.
sharp prism
it is
terse girder
yes it is
sleek turret
yep, its a SIS suggestion.
terse girder
sis?
sleek turret
uhh read the pins.
sleek turret
Specific
Item
Suggestion(s)
zealous ridge
The specific details about how it works and the recipe should be removed
and something like this was suggested recently
violet minnow
good idea but holy cow SIS
sharp prism
also rare waifu wont be changed i dont think
violet minnow
ye rare waifu is rare
sharp prism
HoTE is meant to be expert exclusive
violet minnow
thank god fabsol found one
zealous ridge
honestly remove one of the sand elementals though
sharp prism
regulars
zealous ridge
sure
zealous ridge
the initial suggestion was just to add earth ele
sharp prism
at least rare waifu is original
violet minnow
ye
zealous ridge
but this one brings it a step further by like
violet minnow
rare waifu is good
zealous ridge
Replacing one of the elementals with earth
violet minnow
its another make this avaible in all mods suggustion
terse girder
well adding earth elemental as a summon is really a minor point
violet minnow
the last one with drata failed a lot
zealous ridge
yeah
terse girder
i just feel like all the main elementals should be in there
zealous ridge
ofc
sharp prism
well adding earth elemental as a summon is really a minor point
#suggestions-voting message again this sugg exists
terse girder
what hotE?
sharp prism
normal mode is to easy in general expert is the perfect difficultly
terse girder
you cant get it until hardmode regardless since you need chaos, cryo, and bloom stones
zealous ridge
Remove the recipe and the uhh explanation how how it would work
sharp prism
(H)eart (o)f (T)he (E)lements
zealous ridge
as a summon
terse girder
alright
i use the acronym HoE since t in acronyms arent always used
plus its kinda funny considering the current content of the accessory
violet minnow
ture
terse girder
Heart of Elementals
violet minnow
why cant i spell
zealous ridge
as long as it’s established what is being talked about
terse girder
even if you didnt exactly know, considering the content of the suggestion it would be easy to figure out
violet minnow
even so its still heart of the elements not heart of elementals
its just the name of the item
terse girder
generally that acronym works so im gonna leave it
sharp prism
most people wont know what HoE is
violet minnow
HoE isnt even an item
sharp prism
the community gave it the acronym HoTE
terse girder
the other points you mentioned make sense, but if they just glace at the suggestion they would realise im talking about the Heart Of the Elements
sharp prism
so thats what's is generally used
zealous ridge
sigh if millions of people are really going to ask what HoE means change it
violet minnow
considering how the drata sugg went about making drata not rev exclusive it wont end well
zealous ridge
I highly doubt people won’t know what they’re talking about
sharp prism
millions
terse girder
its 3 people
zealous ridge
hyperbole, obviously
terse girder
but regardless ill change it
terse girder
honestly weird that the only expert mode exclusive drop is the Rare sand elemental in a bottle
seems weird
terse girder
like i would expect the chaos stone to be one too
violet minnow
its ment to be expert only, because calamity is ment to be played in rev+
zealous ridge
Actually yeah
hardy dock
Give the Bloom Stone a waifu cowards
terse girder
the idea was to make it an upgrade of the previous one
zealous ridge
Keep it expert exclusive
terse girder
frankly it the rare sand elemental looks like a combo of the bloom stone and the sand elemental
zealous ridge
I’d say
violet minnow
well it will probably stay expert exclusive
sharp prism
its ment to be expert only, because calamity is ment to be played in rev+
rev+ is like the expert/master mode of calam, expert is more like normal in calam, and regular normal is to easy
sharp prism
if you under stand that at all
violet minnow
you dont get stuff in normal
terse girder
then why are 90% of the drops for HoTE in normal mode?
hardy dock
Then make everything Expert exclusive
violet minnow
cause why not
hardy dock
Boom
terse girder
regardless ive removed that part
terse girder
i spent like 5 minutes in expert mode to grab it and left
even if you want to make the excuse that its too easy in normal mode, its too easy to get in general
hardy dock
And Asgardian Aegis used to be Expert
Most auric stuff was Expert too
That was changed
terse girder
so they moved some stuff down too
i definately dont see why moving rare ele down to normal wouldnt be feasible if 90% of the crafting chain is all normal mode except for a single drop that takes 5 minutes in a expert world to get
zealous ridge
I think it’s the power level
hardy dock
Except maybe aero
terse girder
that doesnt make sense
zealous ridge
like hote is pretty stronk so some normal mode balance might be affected
violet minnow
there are a lot of tiems which only have one expert item in their craft
we cant go through all of them
terse girder
you have to have already beaten plantera to even get the parts for it, and i was able to get it in normal excluding like one piece that again took 5 minutes in expert to get
terse girder
rare elemental isnt gonna stop anyone from grabbing it real quick when its a pathetically easy drop from a miniboss that just requires expert mode only
i did that and went back to normal mode
violet minnow
well it isnt ment to be in normal
its like that for balance
if it takes like 5 minutes whats the big deal about it
terse girder
if you want to make the excuse it ruins normal mode (which it doesnt), then why isnt it much harder to grab
it takes 5 minutes in an expert mode to grab it then you go back
zealous ridge
I dont know if it breaks balance, I’m trying to give you an example that isn’t what you’ve said for why it isn’t normal mode
and if that’s moot, then yea
terse girder
id get it if it was a difficult drop but its not and you need zero progression to get it in an expert mode world
hardy dock
It breaks balance much less than cotbg and amalgam
terse girder
most of the time for expert boss drops you can make the excuse you need progression through expert mode to get them all, this takes literally none
hardy dock
Oh it definitely fits does
I agree with you @terse girder
Hote should be normal mode
terse girder
i spent five minutes on an expert mode world, grabbed it, left. barely any progression required
zealous ridge
yes this has been estabalished
sharp prism
if HoTE was moved to normal mode it would be heavily nerfed and most people dont play calam on normal mode
hardy dock
This conversation is going nowhere
zealous ridge
would it be nerfed though
hardy dock
Most aren’t
zealous ridge
That’s kind of the crux of this discussion
hardy dock
And the only Expert item isn’t even the best of the group
zealous ridge
Is it too powerful for normal?
sharp prism
HoTE is balanced for expert+
zealous ridge
just because it’s balanced for expert+ doesn’t mean it would break normal really
it depends
zealous ridge
like I genuinely don’t have scale for how strong hote is so I can’t speak on its strength
hardy dock
Worm scarf is arguably better in Expert
zealous ridge
moves like this have happened, also
hardy dock
Like I said
zealous ridge
like asgardian aegis gets moved to normal with no changes and it’s fair
hardy dock
Elysian items and Auric/Shadowspec
zealous ridge
yeh
hardy dock
Used to be Expert mode items
zealous ridge
Yharon soul fragment was also expert plus yea
and there weren’t any real balance changes
zealous ridge
Also the celestial tracers I think
But point is
Moves without balance changes have happened, and it has proved that moving something to normal despite it being balanced around expert+ doesn’t always break things
hardy dock
This discussion has turned into a circlejerk haha
terse girder
and rare elemental isnt a balance breaking item
zealous ridge
it really not
hardy dock
It’s pre ML for god’s sake
terse girder
generally it becomes worthless in fast paced fights where you gotta move so she cant heal you with her projectiles
hardy dock
I usually trash it after Polterghast
terse girder
so its really good on paper but becomes somewhat useless in practical situations
i think my suggestion is good
hardy dock
Yeah
terse girder
it gives good reasoning
zealous ridge
yea I’m good with it
terse girder
i added in making rare elemental a non hardmode drop
hardy dock
Earth Elemental is underrated anyway
zealous ridge
At this point though
terse girder
and just using regular elemental to make rare elemental in a bottle
zealous ridge
earth ele being added to hote is kind of an afterthought
like it’s kind of 2 suggestions
and since there’s already a suggestion about adding earth ele to hote
terse girder
to be fair the point alot more complex but you guys told me to remove all that
hardy dock
What if Calamitas dropped a unique item after Providence
zealous ridge
Make it a sugg about moving hote to normal
hardy dock
Like Ravager and Brimstone Elemental
zealous ridge
Make it non-exclusive
cobalt pewter
@hardy dock #suggestions-voting message
hardy dock
Well at least it got noticed
terse girder
i changed the suggestion again just to include how earth elemental should be presented in the HoTE
essentially just make him smaller
terse girder
wait mine was aproved already?
hardy dock
No a different one
cobalt pewter
Suggestions that were suggested and approved before would be bluechecked
And it'll just show that there are multiple requests about that specific thing
cobalt pewter
terse girder
well mine luckily wasnt bluechecked so i guess im in the clear
no idea what the timeframe from approval/disapproval from posting is
hardy dock
I believe it’s posted a voting in a few hours
cobalt pewter
The last sugg seems too convoluted
No one wants to read 5 paragraphs worth of suggestions
Be concise and point out one thing a sugg
dapper coral
mmyeah this one should probably be split, sort of
or make it generally "change rare elemental" and then mention how it might affect hote
you also don't need the second paragraph, devs can figure out how to incorporate it
terse girder
i was taking make it as detailed as possible literally
modern arrow
Could make the regular sand elemental bottle rarer and then give earth elemental a drop
terse girder
but alright your the boss
i was told not to do specific item suggestions so i wont mention the drop
i originally had one in there
dapper coral
yeah you probably don't need a drop, unless you wanna say "move rare elemental to the earth elemental"
terse girder
frankly i think the Regular sand elemental should be replaced with the earth elemental
sand umbra
my question is why rare sandy needs to be in HotE
terse girder
its the better of the two
cobalt pewter
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
sand umbra
ech
cobalt pewter
I personally don't really care about the Elementals herself
sand umbra
imo just move rand sand tits out of HotE so HotE isn't needlessly Expert-locked
terse girder
personally i think regular sand elemental should just be a component to make it since it has no real reason to be an expert mode only drop
sand umbra
and then add earth husbando to HotE instead
cobalt pewter
Usually the minor, but convoluted stat bonuses of HotE irks me more
sharp prism
earth ele is a big rock wdym t homas
cobalt pewter
But beats me, I won't spend time I could be using for procrastinating for sleep to discuss about why HotE's stat bonuses suck major and minor ass
sharp prism
sleep 🔫
terse girder
ive gotten rid of the second paragraph demik
dapper coral
cool
terse girder
so who approves suggestions anyway?
violet minnow
sugg bot
terse girder
ah ok
but uh demik does that mean overall the suggestion is good?
like there isnt any outstanding issues
the title i wont change because it gets the point across and thats the main point of the sugg
dapper coral
1st and 3rd paragraphs are okay, but i feel like the second paragraph is still kind of contrary to the sugg
i suggest you take the 2nd one out and make it into a new sugg for making the rare elemental non-exclusive
sleek girder
i think the suggestion is good
replacing normal sand elemental
and i kinda want to make a suggestion about the healing orbs
terse girder
just gotta hope it gets approved now
frail mantle
it'll be auto approved as long as it doesn't have an exclamation point
terse girder
ah ok
dapper coral
it'll be auto approved as long as it doesn't have a checkmark
exclamation, rather
frail mantle
🤫
terse girder
i did add a bit to it explaining why this would be a good idea in general
since they are moving away from the waifu crap, and pointing out a similar idea with the brimmy resprite
worthy lintel
as long as there's atleast one female the waifu problem will persist
but yea, fair suggestion
terse girder
good to hear
hmm maybe the regular elemental in a bottle can be remade to have the earth elemental instead
it would suck to just trash that original sprite which was something i feel would suck
which is why my original suggestion talked about including it as a crafting component for the rare one
worthy lintel
Ok, the arcane modifier sounds broken as fuck
it's literally menacing with free mana
terse girder
adds 20 mana, lol
terse girder
how about armored, a full set of accessories with that and its 36 extra defence + 3% damage reduction
worthy lintel
problem with upgraded modifiers is that you can stack them
and reach unheard levels of broke
terse girder
yeah but i think a little broke never hurt anyone
in the end if a boss is broken it doesnt really add anything to the experience if its required for progression, but if a certain setup is broken it can add to the experience as you need to obtain and set up that specific thing to get the effect you want
worthy lintel
well, rather than being a weiner, ill try to balance out his sugg
modern arrow
I mean it's only broken if you make it broken
terse girder
so take that as you will
modern arrow
so just don't make it broken
worthy lintel
im not too fond of movement speed increasing jump speed, frog leg showed us how busted this stat is
cobalt pewter
Might exclude numbers at all
worthy lintel
modern arrow
even if it was just 1%?
terse girder
you have zero idea how horrible school was with the last name weiner
worthy lintel
Arcane: ditch the mana regen increase and damage
more mana is already nice on its own, adding less consumption is more fair
modern arrow
I was already thinking that way, the only time I put a number was when I put a range of 5-8
which i now changed :P
pine star
worthy lintel
So, your suggestion about Arcane: stick to mana consumption reduction
Damage and regen on top of more mana is busted
cobalt pewter
Definitely going with spider here (sorry if I called the other spiders), but jump speed might brew some jump god strats
There's already JUMP GOD somewhere around here
Byeah
terse girder
you forget that burden breaker is a thing
cobalt pewter
Jump speed might be a bit hard to balance
worthy lintel
burden breaker is a novelty
cobalt pewter
Burder Breaker is a novelty acc yes
worthy lintel
its not usable on bosses
terse girder
not when paired with relic of deliverance its not
worthy lintel
relic of delivrance is hard to use
cobalt pewter
It's only for traveling in that case
worthy lintel
you cant cancel it
modern arrow
You guys are kind of missing the point by a little. The entire suggestion could just be the first paragraph, and all the change ideas are there to make it sound more appealing.
dapper coral
jump god™️ is a thing, and that would definitely make it better
cobalt pewter
You can't use it vs bosses
terse girder
i got good at using relic of deliverance for quick dodges
dapper coral
but whatever, it's just a possibility at the end of the day
terse girder
since it can make instant turns
but burden breaker + relic of deliverance makes the world your hoik
cobalt pewter
Maybe you can think of it as ppl unanimously agreed on the main point on the sugg, hence continuing onto the details
terse girder
ive gotten stuck in mounains and warped through walls using that
tawny garden
if you can use it against bosses, the combo should be nerfed to the point that you can't
cobalt pewter
But what you brought about burden + deliverance is irrelevant vs bosses
terse girder
yeah
cobalt pewter
Especially since it's cal's gusto
modern arrow
That's a good way to think about it I hadn't considered
terse girder
deliverance is a good dodging tool tho if you get practice
cobalt pewter
Bosses I mean
terse girder
as it can make instant turns at high speed
worthy lintel
yea but delivrance has a high skill floor and doesnt really give you freedom of movement
its fair on its own
cobalt pewter
Acc modifiers are generally exempt of any "skill floor" and just there to boost stats
Usually used to minmax
No sane people would mix various departments of acc modifiers
worthy lintel
meme
modern arrow
is jump speed really even that broken btw, I mean nobody is frothing over the aero stone
worthy lintel
dapper coral
(can we not put massive images in here thanks)
modern arrow
I mean nobody's running frog leg either (unless they are)
worthy lintel
actually many do
terse girder
sorry bout that
worthy lintel
frog legs give an extreme boost
terse girder
i just instantly remembered that gif when he mentioned the sanity thing
cobalt pewter
Frog Leg is a common acc to have
terse girder
and the fact that i do mix them
cobalt pewter
Its crazy mobility boost is worth an acc slot
worthy lintel
also, you can do that in your base: take off without legs, and try with just after
the difference is brutal
i feel like a snail without the legs
unreal viper
🦵
worthy lintel
pine star
modern arrow
do moab and frog leg give the same amount of jump speed
modern arrow
pine star
Yeah
hardy dock
I like moab
pine star
Also there is no BFB, ZOMG, or DDT to give it usefulness late game
modern arrow
I mean frog leg is a pretty massive increase, if you had all of your accessory slots dedicated to jump speed at like 4%, it's only going to a little over half of a frog leg
so now you jump faster at the cost of all your damage
worthy lintel
also, wjll, speaking about modifiers, what about suggesting to revert the crit chance modifier nerf
its nerfed for no good reason
modern arrow
That could be a different suggestion tbh
unreal viper
hm
modern arrow
Reverting the crit chance nerf
Revert the crit chance nerf, I think it was balanced before.
There I did it
unreal viper
Based on my tests, crit is pretty much always worse than damage in calamity
modern arrow
Yea and you would probably put info like that in a paragraph for a suggestion of reverting the nerf
worthy lintel
disregarding how crits sucks for literally all other weps
modern arrow
like "based on these tests crit chance is actually... ...and that's why it would be reasonable to unnerf it"
unreal viper
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1L6vq6rQmXprKBfAKzKcm1ARXiphctcUXvJ9W8eV_SOQ/edit?usp=sharing
Didn;t finish it
worthy lintel
ooooo, new reading 
unreal viper
You can do tests yourslef easy if you have a good claculator
You just need the damage and crit values
worthy lintel
||does it bother you if we see your name in the doc lol||
and whats worse is that the damage difference is not even marginal
hot zephyr
Isn't Lucky more efficient in pre-hm?
Or at least, early on
IMO Arcane could be changed from a flat +20 mana into x% reduced mana usage
Movement speed modifiers need a jump speed/flight time increase
Precise/Lucky should start out giving their current crit chance, but should increase with progression
although tbh in the current build, 100% crit chance is too easy to obtain
Maybe instead of increasing crit chance with precise/lucky, it increases crit damage instead?
terse girder
i think precice should increase crit damage, and lucky should increase crit chance actually
think about it, precision would increase the severity of where you hit because your accurate enough to hit the exact spot, while getting a lucky hit that happened to hurt bad would just mean your more likely to hit a crit
golden narwhal
I don't think another set of modifiers is needed
golden narwhal
and also logically speaking, precision makes you accurate enough to land a crit
wispy heron
I like dash hotkey
but yeah the whole stealth thing and diagonal thing can just go away
sleek girder
as a mage i approve of an arcane overhaul
sleek ore
@sleek girder I found rare sand elemental to be pretty useful for polter, dog and scal actually
and providence for that matter
sleek girder
all im asking is it not to heal by orb
so its easier to get healed
since im more focusing on dodging id rather be able to get the full heal possible
sleek ore
I know, I'm saying that it was still useful despite that in those bossfights
sleek girder
especially since im not too good at said dodging
sleek ore
I do think the orb should be faster though
like you'd only be able to outrun it if you were moving as fast as possible
and it should go through blocks
golden narwhal
I mean, if it was automatic, it'd require rebalancing, I'd think, since it's effortless healing
sleek ore
perhaps
crystal iron
Maybe make it automatical after a certain boss is defeated maybe polter
Or make it go through blocks after prov is defeated or smth
Idk
plain river
Or even better make it go through blocks and go faster by default
I do think that making it go automatically is unreasonable but rare elemental does need a bit of a buff
sleek turret
or heartreach potion and discover why phoenix blade on large group on enemies can be broken.
(or also grand guardian)
sharp prism
that sugg is a dont
faint needle
Piss pillar sugg
ashen warren
Ah nvm
sharp prism
hell pillar
weak field
But why
The entire point of selling is to get rid of the grind
Plus they're pretty expensive
heady storm
A suggestion that incites grinding?
sharp prism
stinky
crude geode
Doesn’t matter how expensive, since players are just gonna buy a spectre staff instead of trying to grind one out.
distant gyro
it isn't sold right away tho
crude geode
I’m mainly trying to suggest not just handing the weapons to the player on a silver platter.
crude geode
Yeah but they’re also used in weapons later on.
distant gyro
aren't most of them postml
which would make you pre-occupied by phantom spirits existing
crude geode
I’m not saying to just remove the selling. I’m also saying to make it so that the enemies that drop said weapons aren’t rarer than a nymph in hardmode.
sand umbra
by post-golem those weapons are already useless
sad but true
I hate how right this is even in vanilla
let alone a powercreep-heavy context such as Calamity
dungeon staves are used for like 2 seconds and then you use Pine or Blizzard instead for the rest of the game 
dapper coral
making suggestions that involve content already done in another mod is a don't already iirc
vagrant flare
i do not see it
sand umbra
it isn't a Don't
it should be, and this sugg outlines the reasons why better than I've ever been able to
but it isn't
crude geode
Tbh calamity has already broken this heavily, with things such as portabulb.
sand umbra
(the point I was making was moreso that Razorpine and Blizzard Staff are so much better than everything else on their tier, especially Pine in particular, that you are actively handicapping yourself if you use anything else)
river glen
for example star cannon is op in tmod
because u have alch npc
fargo
where u can get unlimited ammo
sand umbra
...that's not
that's not a
good
okay.
that's not really a good example
a better example would've been mentioning how Minishark is better than everything else you can get as a ranger on its tier and lasts for a sizable portion of pre-Hardmode
sand umbra
tell me again how many people use Opal Striker
sand umbra
do they?
cobalt pewter
Tbh calamity has already broken this heavily, with things such as portabulb.
They're there to facilitate Cal's non-linearity
So there's that
proper grail
tell me again how many people use Opal Striker
Raises hand
worthy lintel
minishark and musket meta
cobalt pewter
Minishark is
worthy lintel
carries you all the way up to dungeon, then you plow with archerfish
cobalt pewter
Dumb
As well as its upgrades
They're all dumb
They facilitate the lowest denominator of IQs
proper grail
Minishark/Accelerator Rounds are crazy good tbh
cobalt pewter
crude geode
They facilitate the lowest denominator of IQs
Did you mean ”Ranged Players”
worthy lintel
jester arrows should be illegal
cobalt pewter
Mayhaps
Bows are busted because Archery Potions exist
Which, again, is dumb
But I think they'll do something to it in 1.5?
For cal
proper grail
Did you mean ”Ranged Players”
Ranger takes skill late game. It's busted prehardmode though
worthy lintel
"what's that, an efficient weapon with abundant ammo and knockback? wait, lemme slap a flat 20% dmg bonus"
proper grail
I'm the Sniper Rifle meta guy
cobalt pewter
I ran through ranger a couple times and I feel braindead most of the run
crude geode
Since when did ranger take skill, you point your weapon at the enemy and deal damage.
worthy lintel
if you don't use xenopopper you dont deserve to be loved
sturdy geyser
one weapon doesn't mean the class takes skill
crude geode
^
cobalt pewter
oh boi, here goes the derail
proper grail
Then by that logic all classes but Melee require no skill
cobalt pewter
Stealth rogue needs skills
worthy lintel
melee is hold m1 to win
cobalt pewter
🔫
crude geode
Solstice, it’s known that ranger is a brain dead class. Get over it.
worthy lintel
atleast you have to aim
proper grail
Nobody uses stealth though (I'd love to see that fixed)
sturdy geyser
summoner is also braindead
crude geode
Yes but you also have no armor as summoner.
proper grail
Technically Mage is just Ranger but most weapons home or explode
crude geode
that’s factually incorrect, but this has derailed far too much.
worthy lintel
ok then, let's discuss one of the suggs
crude geode
or just not use this channel for nonsensical topics
echo kestrel
Is yharon intended to be fought without using true melee?
Was thinking of suggesting an in-between post-DoG
worthy lintel
technically, only scal fits in this title
cobalt pewter
Adding a subclass weapon for a specific point of progression is a don't
worthy lintel
fixed position really kills the play
cobalt pewter
And you can theoretically kill Yharon as true melee, given you have proper true melee weaps post dog
echo kestrel
Understandable
cobalt pewter
I'm specifically talking about post Golem, which is when you got the Knife
Storm Weaver doesn't spawn as coiled
And DoG body already has the feature I'm talking about
So yeah, just Deus
sturdy geyser
destroyer is my favorite post moon lord boss
worthy lintel
I wonder if an entity can have conditional debuff immunity
Probably not but it would solve so many problems
crude geode
Destroyer lol.
analog tulip
cobalt pewter
It's just there to signal the resistance phase at the start of each fight
glass sentinel
its bc you're using the old calam version and thats not destroyer its dog
worthy lintel
glass sentinel
you're endgame
what are you using, glass cannon?
she's meant to be super fucking hard
earnest cape
Imagine if the eye of extinction wasn't infinite imagine how more agrier the guy will be
yeh
she is a superboss after all
daring imp
please delete this
before any calamity dev awake
don't even let this get inside their minds
earnest cape
though yeah there is a part where it's quite unfair being bh5 where everything exists and does a crap ton of damage
glass sentinel
if you're regretting it so quickly
earnest cape
^
glass sentinel
BH5 is kinda annoying, yes
earnest cape
the moons
daring imp
even for yharon we can easily fight it by circling around
glass sentinel
but i think the problem is how you approach the fight and what you use rather than the fight itself
daring imp
and only be carefull with his spinning and dash attacks
glass sentinel
Bh5 is reasonable as you can just circle the arena
you arent supposed to circle yharon, but ok
daring imp
i do and it gets much froggin easier
earnest cape
the only approach for bh5 is spinnig around the arena
glass sentinel
^
worthy lintel
bro just tank the moons
glass sentinel
lmao
worthy lintel
its ez bro
daring imp
yharon in both phases is a stupid unfunny waste of joke comparing to SCal
zenith hazel
every single calamity boss is just circling around
are we playing the same mod
earnest cape
¯_(ツ)_/¯
worthy lintel
zenith hazel
how do you circle stuff like pbg, deus, provi, DoG, etc.
daring imp
xxxxxxDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
zenith hazel
so yeah, that point is invalid
daring imp
and for similar bosses
glass sentinel
circling yharon is also kinda 
zenith hazel
also
daring imp
basically for every boss that isn't affected by gravity
earnest cape
circling yharon is also kinda
^
zenith hazel
defense does kinda play a part
earnest cape
uhm
zenith hazel
going for a full tank build makes a difference
earnest cape
most boss isn't affected by gravity?
zenith hazel
also
earnest cape
and yeah 7x8 defense is quite decent plus all those dr from post-ml
zenith hazel
this suggestion feels incredibly subjective
glass sentinel
circling dog
daring imp
having a fucking full tank build
SCal: i'll ignore that
ashen warren
circling WoF
daring imp
for some reason i never tried circling dog
earnest cape
yeah
glass sentinel
you can reduce her dmg to 1
dapper coral
what is your gear
glass sentinel
as fab proved
daring imp
but i think it might be as effective as circling astrum deus
daring imp
yes
earnest cape
daring imp
it's extremelly effective
zenith hazel
before making a suggestion, maybe take some time learning the boss?
glass sentinel
not really
daring imp
jsut be carefull with the mines
zenith hazel
because right now it just feels you're saying "I think this boss is too hard, nerf it"
glass sentinel
circling worms is kinda 
daring imp
and the secound worm
earnest cape
you know he summons mines on the ground right
zenith hazel
without considering other people's opinions
daring imp
still effective
earnest cape
no
daring imp
the worm won't be able to dash at you at high speed
ashen warren
old SG lore
zenith hazel
anyway, I don't think this sugg can see the light of day anyway unless you make some really, I mean really convincing points
daring imp
what?
daring imp
edgedancing?
glass sentinel
its a book reference
daring imp
but i do circle movements around the arena
zenith hazel
alright we get it
daring imp
sea gorge?
zenith hazel
you can't circle deus even if you try
glass sentinel
slime god lore
daring imp
i tried and i did
zenith hazel
you can't circle literally every boss
daring imp
cry and fry
zenith hazel
that's an exaggeration
ashen warren
slime god lore
yeah that was a joke on the "jet engine" comment