Don't touch Ampoule
#suggestions-discussion
pine star
serene fox
it's not busted
pine star
Please
serene fox
it's just stupid
gusty geode
How in the actual shit is that melee
crude geode
bc melee bias.
worthy lintel
its melee because its a sword
sand umbra
that's right, not stars from the blade
stars on cursor
worthy lintel
glass sentinel
wait how is aotc broken?
serene fox
it isn't
glass sentinel
plz explain
foggy plover
its not
cobalt pewter
Honestly, a Fungal Symbiote upgrade that spawns stars instead of shrooms sounds
sand umbra
it's not broken
cobalt pewter
Pogger
pine star
That said, at least make AotC do something on true melee hits
glass sentinel
sigh
cobalt pewter
glass sentinel
serene fox
it's honestly a bit underpowered compared to other melee options
sand umbra
what it is is the lowest IQ weapon in the entire post-Yharon roster
foggy plover
because its homing and low iq
worthy lintel
not happening
gusty geode
It's not broken from a balancing standpoint
It's broken from a conceptual standpoint
summer sentinel
AoTC homing on scal brothers is a little wonky I think I recall chill saying but the rest of it is fine
sand umbra
and the most disconnected from melee
foggy plover
so its made slightly worse
worthy lintel
probably exoblade or something like that
glass sentinel
AoTC homing on scal brothers is a little wonky I think I recall chill saying but the rest of it is fine
yup
worthy lintel
you click
pine star
So raise the IQ
worthy lintel
laser beam
pine star
And then raise the damage
sand umbra
slightly worse he says
but like
pine star
That said, how to
glass sentinel
i asked ben and he said bc cataclysm spawns first aotc homes in on him
foggy plover
the masses will complain if we make it take higher iq
sand umbra
Ark of the Cosmos is safer than every other option combined
foggy plover
you saw what happened with ssv
glass sentinel
was it ben?
sand umbra
that's because mage had no fucking options aside from SSV for the longest time
you cannot compare SSV to Ark
crude geode
Ark is one of the 6 available melee weapons at that tier.
worthy lintel
and celestus cries in its corner
foggy plover
ssv was the low iq mage weapon
worthy lintel
being alone
glass sentinel
ssv was the low iq mage weapon
thats why i used it
sand umbra
SSV was the only magic weapon for a while
sand umbra
because Vivid Clarity was too high IQ and I'm convinced Yharon's rare drops didn't and still don't exist
foggy plover
yes but that doesnt matter anymore
foggy plover
it wasnt changed back then
crude geode
yes so that's why it got changed now.
foggy plover
it was changed mildly recently when mage has quite a few options
foggy plover
so why does that matter.
crude geode
Ark of the Cosmos should also get changed, since melee has so many options
glass sentinel
most weps are low iq
foggy plover
most weapons are
glass sentinel
all homing weps are low iq
gusty geode
But yeah, like I was saying
Imo this mod could probably benefit from just being completely trashed and remade from scratch
It has so many problems that run too deep to be easily fixed
And a lot of concepts that are still in desperate need of polish
Or even acknowledgement
RIVs got added a few updates ago and were a really cool idea
But then people started asking for them to have unique sprites
And without hesitation the devs just left the whole concept to die cuz they didn't wanna deal with it
Unless there's something else to the story I'm missing
foggy plover
is the lowest iq
summer sentinel
Does no one mention vivid clarity 
crude geode
and it's an affront to the term melee when you spam projectiles from your cursor, and get buffs for it
sand umbra
Vivid Clarity is funny high IQ stick
crude geode
^
crude geode
no.
foggy plover
thats not a suggestion
sand umbra
as beneficial as it would be, I think it'd be nigh-impossible to even get a soft reset to happen let alone a hard reset
crude geode
^
sturdy geyser
vivid clarity is wack
summer sentinel
You can't just suggest the entire game to get reworked wtf
crude geode
^
glass sentinel
the suggestion:
Restart The Mod
❔ This mod can be remade.
pine star
🥺
summer sentinel
that's like saying you should fix USA with one simple trick
glass sentinel
yea,
worthy lintel
yea but acting on melee is just fixing the entire game at this point
pine star
glass sentinel
remove it
sturdy geyser
Rework the mod
i want it to happen cause itd be cool i belivev
foggy plover
I dont know
pine star
Idk
worthy lintel
because we realized how busted it is
summer sentinel
again, we can not remove USA but that's off topic
sand umbra
yeah alright this has gotten to the point where it's no longer funny
glass sentinel
sturdy geyser
replace USA with Calamity mod
sand umbra
I have a new sugg to write
pine star
Also, why did USA get in this convo?
crude geode
(byech. AoTC needs to die.)
radiant meadow
I still don't get why people call vivid high iq
summer sentinel
I was just making a comparison 
begone
radiant meadow
you point and click
worthy lintel
its all usa
foggy plover
it isnt
worthy lintel
btw if you touch ark
glass sentinel
its tooltip had high iq
worthy lintel
i will get upset
sand umbra
I've done Redtide and Amidias' Trident so far
where's the next Melee But Actually No™️ weapon
foggy plover
they just speak out their ass most likely because they havent tried it
radiant meadow
the tooltip is just a meme and a reference to the past function
summer sentinel
I wonder if people would say tesla cannon is too high iq
worthy lintel
most likely
radiant meadow
which actually was a hunk of hot garbage
pine star
So the next one is Seashine Sword?
sand umbra
("but what about Ark" Ark is the final boss)
pine star
radiant meadow
current vivid is not high iq and it shouldn't be treated as such
foggy plover
vivid is just good now
worthy lintel
current vivid is luck
foggy plover
doesnt need to be touched
worthy lintel
but atleast fair
radiant meadow
SSV being changed happened months after vivid rework
so calling SSV the only magic option is just
crude geode
I just liked the look of SSV more than the old Vivid Clarity, and I never realized it got reworked to not be high iq funny moments.
radiant meadow
wrong
crude geode
especially with haedopelagic echo and yhar crystal and the wand
glass sentinel
hado meme
sand umbra
...okay so I was looking at melee weapons and uh
glass sentinel
funny 600k dps
pine star
What?
worthy lintel
so its a blue spear
pine star
That
worthy lintel
noted
sand umbra
legit does nothing even remotely fascinating
crude geode
radical
sand umbra
it is just Spear But Better™️
pine star
It's a blue stick
glass sentinel
heart rapier much?
pine star
No
worthy lintel
katana upgrade
crude geode
oh god no lorax
pine star
At least Heart Rapier did something
glass sentinel
sword but heals™️
crude geode
don't bring back the heart rapier fanboys.
sand umbra
yeah at least Heart Rapier did something and could've existed if it wasn't bloat
pine star
Marnite Spear LITERALLY DOES NOTHING
sand umbra
Marnite Spear does actually nothing
glass sentinel
don't bring back the heart rapier fanboys.
❤️
cobalt pewter
Omniblade applies a debuff that's Ichor but essentially stronger 
glass sentinel
like a meaning
crude geode
marble and granite need to actually matter or have their weapons straight up removed.
glass sentinel
yup
pine star
Yep
sand umbra
10 bucks says that if I go hold a mini-survey in Cal talk right now about Marnite Spear at least half of the people present will go
"literally what"
glass sentinel
the marnite bayonet is ranged for some reason
worthy lintel
behold, a weapon nobody uses
pine star
Perennial Ore Sword
crude geode
can't you tell from the awful color scheme 
pine star
pine star
No
foggy plover
really.
crude geode
I jest.
mainly because I think Perennial bars actually have a REALLY good looking sprite.
Byech I think I'm one of a small number of people who know Magna Cannon not only exists, but has an upgrade someone once used to kill Anahita and Levi before they were Anahita and Levi.
radiant meadow
Yes we get it, lots of obscure melee weapons, now you can put your brimlash away and do something about it
crude geode
^
worthy lintel
i meme but brimlash is not that bad
pine star
Yeah
glass sentinel
i was gonna post a heart rapier photo but saw ben's post and stopped
pine star
It did a decent job at killing plantera phase 2 tentacles
crude geode
As to actual suggestions, I feel like marble and granite should
A. Get a rework to actually feel important and meaningful
B. Have their weapons and tools removed.
pine star
Yeah
crude geode
yes it is not. which means they need a rework to actually matter, and deserve weapons and tools.
glass sentinel
rip heart rapier
unreal viper
Bruh
glass sentinel
unreal viper
I think the weapons should be removed in favor for actual marble and granite stuff respectively
sand umbra
removal is not happening
worthy lintel
doesn't change how poorly these semi-biomes are already received
sand umbra
that's what I thought
crude geode
Calamity Lore: We address pretty much everything in terraria!
Marble and Granite:
Calamity Lore: pretty much. everything.
sand umbra
unreal viper
I guess so
sand umbra
well anyway I'm going in alphabetical-through-rarity order and my next target is Eutrophic Shank
cobalt pewter
You need to make granite and marble gen significant before doing any content to em
sand umbra
if one of you could sugg making Marnite Spear actually a thing that's interesting that'd be fantastic
worthy lintel
i cant think of anything else but an unstable prism / gladiator locket synergy
pine star
NEVER MIND
worthy lintel
my brain is off
unreal viper
Synergy ew
sand umbra
Seashine Sword is slightly later
pine star
Oops
sand umbra
I...thiiiink it might be next after Eutrophic Shank?
glass sentinel
how bout just making the marnite stuff better in general
literally no one uses them
pine star
Let me guess, after Shank is Seashine?
Then Bladecrest
Then Wind Blade
these were the weapons I used in my melee playthrough
sand umbra
order from here I think goes Eutrophic Shank, Seashine Sword, Urchin Spear, and then it's onto orange rarity memes
sand umbra
that depends on whether or not I conveniently skip Biome Blade's entire line
pine star
Oh god
crude geode
What’s that.
sand umbra
anywho one Shank sugg comin' up
sand umbra
...right after I actually learn more about it because I've never heard of people using it
pine star
Yeah
sturdy geyser
y'know what id want from the sunken sea
more ways to peacefully get items
like rusted bell
crude geode
that would be nice.
pine star
Yeah
unreal viper
I agree
sturdy geyser
it would mantain the peaceful aesthetics of the sunken sea, create some egaging mechanics, and create variety in how items are obtained
unreal viper
Yeah
worthy lintel
what else do you have in mind
unreal viper
Sugg it.
crude geode
Personally, I wouldn’t mind if there was an alternate way to acquiring things like the serpentine other than murdering sea life. Such as feeding the sea serpent or smthn.
worthy lintel
sounds complicated to implement and will probably get ignored by the masses
but such detail is nice
i approve
sturdy geyser
you could always make it the only way to obtain these items
sand umbra
step 2: projectile
sturdy geyser
or have items be exclusive
worthy lintel
step 10: yes
still doesnt solve the problem of masses mindlessly murdering stuff on sight
but oh well
sturdy geyser
you could always make it the only way to obtain these items
or have certain items be exclusive
just force them into slowing down and playing careful to get items
worthy lintel
as long as its not a functional/too important item, its completely fair
if its a crucial item, expect some backlash
sturdy geyser
none of the sunken sea gear is crucial
golden narwhal
when people backlash because they're not supposed to kill peaceful animals 
sturdy geyser
also, whats wrong with encouraging a certain style of play in a biome
abyss is designed to encourage going slow and stealthily
worthy lintel
nothing wrong at all lol, that wasnt my point
summer sentinel
Bit late, but go back to suggestion things 
no more off topic
worthy lintel
my point being that a lot of people will just not appreciate being slowed down
sturdy geyser
well thats their problem
sturdy geyser
gonna make suggestion now
coarse bloom
So like...fishing?
sand umbra
discoveries:
Eutrophic Shank is just Aquatic Discharge but per-thrust rather than per-hit
worthy lintel
what's the difference
cobalt pewter
Fishing but actually engaging since you see the creature running to the food
Fishing has never been engaging in its vanilla nature, and never will be 🔫
worthy lintel
the only way i can see making fishing more engaging without touching anything at its core is to add a micro game to it
but it sounds lame
glass sentinel
make a stardew-like fishing minigame = fishing is now fun
cobalt pewter
^
pine star
^^^^
worthy lintel
^^^^^^^^^^
coarse bloom
Catching stuff in a bug net then?
sturdy geyser
suggestion has been made
glass sentinel
thats animal crossing
cobalt pewter
I'd prefer a line break or two in the sugg contents zest
worthy lintel
can we do something as ambitious as pacifying giant clam
and he drops a weapon as a reward
coarse bloom
What with? It's a clam
worthy lintel
Harmless Giant Clam.
pine star
worthy lintel
pine star
That said, how to pacify Very Very Large Mollusk?
cobalt pewter
glass sentinel
wear an accessory and it becomes passive
pine star
cobalt pewter
Honestly
glass sentinel
or like beat a boss and it becomes passive
glass sentinel
like in hk
coarse bloom
It is already passive
cobalt pewter
Royal Gel esque acc for Sunken Sea mobs sound pretty pogger
glass sentinel
make them 100% friendly when you beat like AS or something
like with hollow knight mantises (just dont smak them)
worthy lintel
i just wish terraria modding wasnt so restrictive
a pacifist game sounds pretty poggers
i swear its not like undertale
sand umbra
implying you can't at least encourage the player to be pacifistic in certain areas
river glen
🎉
worthy lintel
👏
pine star
heady storm
Yay, now await its delivery like everyone else.
worthy lintel
watch as this awesome sugg gets forgotten
river glen
ik
summer sentinel
Perhaps, depends on what the devs want to do with it really suggestion wise, but it'll get sent to their eyes now
distant gyro
delivered
proper grail
BTW thanks to Bravioli for delivering my suggestion so quickly after it hit 200 
cobalt pewter
Didn't thomas sugg on RE guns already, lemme check how that one goes
117 stars
Byeah, the sugg in posting is fine
coarse bronze
hollow shell
You could
manic aspen
are there any calamity enemies that don't have knockback immunity
radiant meadow
Yes
radiant meadow
Pretty sure a majority do not
earnest cape
a lot have at least some or a lot
radiant meadow
Citing an older version is a bit pointless
manic aspen
they need to remove knockback immunity for a lot of non-boss enemies
hollow shell
Can you name some
manic aspen
does scorn eater have immunity
hollow shell
Why are you asking
manic aspen
because it shouldn't if it does
hollow shell
You're the one suggesting they get removed
implying you've noticed it and know cases where it occurs
radiant meadow
Scorn eaters are immune to kb
summer sentinel
I'd lean that more to a don't too, not to mention I don't see why it's specifically the RE guns here
radiant meadow
But they're also post ml
hollow shell
What, Lauren?
manic aspen
that doesn't excuse knockback immunity for an enemy like that
summer sentinel
current sugg
hollow shell
The sugg is centered around the RE guns, isn't it?
earnest cape
scorn eater having high KB res is okay to me they're easily avoidable by being above them
worthy lintel
yes
radiant meadow
Well, if you can come up with reasoning, feel free to suggest it then
golden narwhal
"Large" enemies have more of a reason to be kb immune imo
summer sentinel
It is I'm just, confused about it I guess
manic aspen
well of course they have reason for knockback resistance
worthy lintel
without their kb immunity, scorn eaters would be complete fools
hollow shell
I personally see exactly what it's talking about
manic aspen
.....
worthy lintel
they can't even scale 10 blocks high
summer sentinel
oh wait, I re-read the last paragraph and it makes more sense, nvm, yeah I can see what they mean
foggy plover
the left click is already meant to be much better than the right click
lemme go check just how much better it is
ashen warren
kind of outlandish but I would like it if Scorn Eater was reworked into a mini boss with some AI changes and it leaving behind projectiles as it jumps like the profaned guardian when it dashes. I'm only saying this because Unholy Essence is too easy to grind with all the profaned enemies + the increased spawn rate calamity has
crude geode
I mean, a material being too easy to grind? Never heard of that once in calamity.
worthy lintel
i wouldn't mind seeing scorn eaters with a much higher leap, if they leap at a slower pace
so i can't just grapple the ground with static hook and punish them
ashen warren
you can stack up a ton of unholy essence making provi arena
crude geode
You can also stack up a ton of plague cell cannisters while making PBG arena, essence of chaos while making Brimmy arena, and Stardust while making Aureus arena. What's your point?
worthy lintel
i dont think the excess of essences is the problem he's bringing up
he just mentions scorn eaters being pitifully weak because they literally can't jump
crude geode
I'm only saying this because Unholy Essence is too easy to grind with all the profaned enemies + the increased spawn rate calamity has
ashen warren
You can also stack up a ton of plague cell cannisters while making PBG arena, essence of chaos while making Brimmy arena, and Stardust while making Aureus arena. What's your point?
@crude geode that is also true
summer sentinel
it's a little justified due to the supreme healing potions for unholy essence
crude geode
and you can also get a ton of blood orbs for omega healing potions in blood moon. Materials being ridiculous easy to come by is a common thing in calamity, and it's not unique to unholy essence.
worthy lintel
yea, but what set apart unholy essence is the pitiful ease at which you can farm profaned enemies
there's only 3 of them and 1 is not even hostile
crude geode
the pitiful ease at which you can farm profaned enemies
@worthy lintel have you done a post-ml blood moon?
you hold down left click and everything around you dies with ease.
worthy lintel
yea, but atleast the blood moon enemies can still hit you. scorn eaters on the other hand...
crude geode
The only thing that can hit you is (relative to post-ml movement) are dripplers and demon eyes.
worthy lintel
stand on a platform and they do not exist 
crude geode
hit a demon eye/drippler once in post-ml and they get vaporized.
plus, you can completely ignore everything, and just fish in the sky in a box and get blood orbs. At least you have to actively kill things for unholy energy.
cobalt pewter
Is a sugg going to materialize outta this convo?
crude geode
hopefully
worthy lintel
probably
cobalt pewter
I swear we can rename this channel to #derailed-discussion and no one will bat an eye
crude geode
I wouldn't mind a buff to scorn eaters, but they're so goddamn tanky and have such ridiculous health that I would prefer a nerf in that regard in addition to making them less stuck on the ground.
Plus, there's like a 99% chance that if you're moving horizontally through hell, a scorn eater will come out of nowhere and get a hit on you.
worthy lintel
what do you propose for that
slower jump pace but higher jumps?
or somethin in those lines
crude geode
Pretty much. I just would prefer it not be Profaned Boulder that slams into you at Mach 5 while you're traveling through hell or the hallow.
worthy lintel
and give them a quieter hit sound
crude geode
Does the abyss design of stealth in addition to wanting you to slaughter countless enemies for things like lumenyl and ink bomb weird anyone else out?
worthy lintel
i mean, abyss stealth does make sense
but exterminating species to get blue crystals when they naturally grow in the lower parts feels weird
crude geode
abyss stealth, in concept, makes sense to me. But then you can't get ink bomb except for attempting to murder countless cuttlefish and giant squid.
clever raft
@crude geode I forgot to say this earlier but can you please add the Trinket of Chi to your doc of accessories to re-work?
Currently its tooltip implies that after 1 second of not moving, you get the chi buff
However what actually happens is you need to wait a portion of time equal to the amount of time you were moving for
crude geode
...the fuck?
clever raft
e.g.
You have the buff.
You walk around for 5 seconds, and you don't have it, as you're moving.
You stand still, and wait for the buff to come back. You need to wait 5 seconds, not 1
If you take 1 step (move for 0.2 seconds), the buff comes back after 0.2 more seconds
crude geode
That...doesn't sound correct, more like a bug/oversight
clever raft
Yes
crude geode
maybe bring it up in #bugs-read-pins
clever raft
I've tried
the trinket was looked at in the last update, and was changed to be 1 second after using a weapon instead of 2
but they forgot to actually fix the bug that makes it terrible
crude geode
I don't really think that's suggestion worthy? you just need a dev to look at it.
clever raft
It's in the bugs doc, at least
proper grail
Suggest as in the bugs channel
clever raft
There's no point.
It's already in the bugs doc
because it was actually noticed when I brought it up the first time
no idea why it wasn't fixed, though.
Especially given they did actually look at it
proper grail
If they missed it before, then the only way to get it really fixed is to mention it again from what you've told me.
clever raft
I don't really think that's suggestion worthy? you just need a dev to look at it.
@crude geode Yeah, that why I thought it could become 1/15 of your suggestion
crude geode
looked at the bugs doc, don't think it's actually in there.
clever raft
Nah, it is
crude geode
yes but that's about accessories that suck and need reworks to what they do/are, not accessories that don't work how they should.
cobalt pewter
the Providence drops are almost never used
That's a minor exaggeration, byeah
serene fox
isn't dazzling stabber fine when testers use it
but when the public uses it's garbage
cause testers say dazzling stabber works perfectly fine
also 100 Defense and 40% DR Penetration is a bit much
heady storm
cause testers say dazzling stabber works perfectly fine
Which testers have said that, when I tested it I concluded it needed a buff.
serene fox
heady storm
Chill, what were you using?
serene fox
heady storm
heady storm
It's the same, you can tell because we used the same accs.
heady storm
Proficiency isn't too big unless you're trying to become almighty.
cobalt pewter
cobalt pewter
That last sugg seems to fit more on #bugs-read-pins
serene fox
it's not really a bug
I don't think so at least
just luxor's having a weird interaction with drills
serene fox
bugn't
heady storm
That sounds like something I could just report in Dev right now, yeah.
serene fox
please do
heady storm
Hand me a few then.
serene fox
what
cobalt pewter
when a supposedly weapon is so bad that the best way to use it is with Luxor spam at no charge
cobalt pewter
Shadowspec already takes Auric Tesla Bars no?
serene fox
I think he means the armor
cobalt pewter
Yeh but still, it's always nice to have a choice to test out
Unless the crafting is interchangeable, I'm not a fan of Demonshade being a straight upgrade to Auric
cobalt pewter
Iban no
gray nebula
its currently barely an upgrade
cobalt pewter
🔫
gray nebula
its like more of a sidegrade than anything actually
heady storm
Oh a plot twist for you, @queen copper it's already fixed.
midnight remnant
its currently barely an upgrade
@gray nebula so they make it a direct upgrade
gray nebula
no
Its not the point
And no one would throw away their auric armor for a worse one
cobalt pewter
Demonshade is intended to be a glass cannon alternative to auric, which is a dumb fuck survivability armor
gray nebula
(because yeah honestly unless youre a nohitter or smmth and spam the enrage key, auric is better)
cobalt pewter
queen copper
eh?
gray nebula
nerf auric's revives when 
heady storm
At least not in a public build.
gray nebula
first time i beat scal i probably "died" 5 times at least but the revives kept happening
midnight remnant
(because yeah honestly unless youre a nohitter or smmth and spam the enrage key, auric is better)
@gray nebula thats my point, i think demonshade should be the final armor
gray nebula
too bad, it shouldnt
midnight remnant
lol
gray nebula
making demonshade THE final armor would involve buffing it way too much
because gl making smth better than fucking auric
aka copypasted effects from all the previous armors
cobalt pewter
I mean, wouldn't it be buffed eventually?
gray nebula
ft 2 revives because 1 wasnt enough
if anything id like to see auric nerfed and nah i dont think it would get buffed
cobalt pewter
Since Shadowspec Bars, and to an extension, Demonshade armor, will always be post-whatever-last-boss
cobalt pewter
Aaaaah
midnight remnant
you can just nerf the auric, i mean it has to many abilities
midnight remnant
ik that
gray nebula
and the dedicatee is pretty DEAD
midnight remnant
so idk
gray nebula
auric should be worse than shadowspec maybe? but that would involve quite a lot of nerfin
but don't make shadowspec an auric upgrade ever
midnight remnant
wait but whats the point in the demon in the demonshade armor,
you can put there a mini cute scal and it will look way more complete
cobalt pewter
Auric does need a lot nerf
But imo its effects should be massively rebranded first so they would be actually unique
no mini cute scale please please plea plea
cobalt pewter
I always feel that auric armor is anti climatic, just having effects of previous armors without any thematic or visual changes
gray nebula
supposed to be "endgame" or smth because endgame = tons of effects strung together and piled ontop of one another
gray nebula
make the true ultra zenith exo that swings every single sword in the mod at once
now thats endgame
cobalt pewter
crude geode
Gives Shredder a run for it’s money in lagging the game.
swift fulcrum
you mean infinity
crude geode
No
crude geode
no.
hollow sierra
and isn't demonshade the catch-all sidegrade to whatever the highest tier of armor is
its not really supposed to be better than auric
although i do hope auric stays relevant in the draedon update
even if the draedon armor just inherits all its effects
ashen warren
what kind of sugg is that LOL
hollow shell
@midnight remnant It is intended that they are both viable at endgame
Auric is the survivability option, Demonshade is the DPS option
midnight remnant
oh ok
cobalt pewter
Too bad demonshade armor now becomes scal armor
Rover, is this confirmed? (Source: iban)
I am REALLY clueless when to take iban seriously at times
crude geode
the answer is never and always.
hollow sierra
my question is if scal and all the gear behind her is getting shifted up or if they can somehow fit draedon inbetween where yharon and scal currently are
hollow sierra
📢 FABSOL
crude geode
hollow shell
Yeah there's some funny details that we got in mind
swift fulcrum
dividing all stats by 10
hollow sierra
or maybe draedon is just a side boss that's like .2 of a tier above yharon
i have no concept about how difficult it is dev wise to do a full re-tiering
serene fox
isn't stealth rogue actually viable if you build for it
serene fox
Yes you did
cobalt pewter
isn't stealth rogue actually viable if you build for it
Viable but worse than spam
Or more specific, inconsistent
serene fox
I thought it was on par/slightly better in certain cases
(bear in mind I haven't touched rogue ever)
cobalt pewter
e.g. vs Destroyer you totally shred it with Stormfront Razor, but you have literally nothing to use post provi vs polter
dapper mural
I have trouble finding ways to make stealth gen work well for me, and I haven't really seen many things that speak in favor of choosing silent vs menacing. In my experience I haven't been able to reliably use it without getting myself killed, and I have no clue if I'm missing something about using it properly or an issue with the mechanic itself.
cobalt pewter
The mechanic can be a bit iffy, but it works
If you need help, you can always ask in #help-advice-read-pins
hollow sierra
its a third rage bar
cobalt pewter
bruh
hollow sierra
well its not, but maybe it should be
swift fulcrum
stealth is mana but bad
dapper mural
I mean you're not wrong
It's basically adrenaline/rage bar's finicky little brother.
swift fulcrum
also it's very annoying that the very last bit of the stealth bar takes the longest to regenerate
dapper mural
Exactly
cobalt pewter
Stealth bar could do with reworking the regen boosts to be instead stealth dmg scaling boost
dapper mural
That's the one thing I have the hardest time capitalizing on, let alone adrenaline.
dapper mural
Even a little of both would be a little helpful, unless that breaks something.
Maybe equal or half the bonus as stealth strike damage?
It just needs something to compete with spamming.
hollow sierra
weapon use time scaling
dapper mural
What does that mean?
hollow sierra
stealth attacks or stealth in generation doesn't scale on weapon use time whereas the main attack does
cobalt pewter
?
crude geode
You don’t generate stealth faster with faster weapon use time weapons, but you spam faster with weapons that do have good weapon use time.
That’s what chronozilla is saying.
cobalt pewter
Hm
That could be a good way to buff stealth on weapons with lower use time
@hollow sierra maybe suggest it?
serene fox
so basically optic staff ex
plush dock
yea but it's not buffed like in fargo
golden narwhal
Sugg needs reasoning as well
heady storm
This is overly specific, just from a glance here and there.
golden narwhal
Also might veer too far into changing vanilla stuff forgot if that was a rule
hollow sierra
I think it would be great if there was more minions you could only use if you actually specced into summoner
ala sons of yharon and cosmic whateveritscalledalizer
hollow sierra
I especially like sons of yharon and temporal umbrella because you can reach them with dark sun ring, makes taking the ring a more meaningful decision
but on the flipside one of them is heavily nerfed against the only boss that's later than when you get it in progression and the other is literally at the end of progression so they don't really get utilized
tawny garden
Also might veer too far into changing vanilla stuff
forgot if that was a rule
That's not a don't, but it's frowned upon
hollow sierra
Is that not usually why mods just make upgrades to weapons that's almost same tier just because they're easier to change
eg megashark and megalodon
So maybe the sugg should actually be "make optic staffolodon" and not "buff optic staff"
But its a SIS regardless
summer sentinel
No it’s similar but a bit different still
crude geode
You can get it from Anahita and Levi @sleek turret
sleek turret
Oh.
crude geode
Like every other angler thing, there’s another method.
sleek turret
I forgot about it 
crude geode
earnest cape
sleek turret
alright, mb
crude geode
Always check the wiki before making a sugg
earnest cape
^ yeah it helps
crude geode
It’s aight, we all make mistakes.
sleek turret
yeah, I forgot levi drops Hotline at all.
earnest cape
that's understandable
tawny garden
Always check the wiki before making a sugg
cut to Demik making a sugg that Profaned Guardians should drop at least one item
earnest cape
9head
sleek turret
gilded crow
why this boy not on the heart of the elementals?
sharp prism
because he's a big rock
sharp prism
maybe make a suggestion about that then
sharp prism
go into #suggestions-posting and read the pinned doc
swift fulcrum
there's no earth elemental summoning accessory
fossil finch
What the fuck is that demonshade sugg
"Nobody uses demonshade so nerf demonshade to use funny auric armor"
gilded crow
posted the suggestion
hollow sierra
earthy boye isn't hot enough to be in the heart
also symmetry
Maybe you could suggest a resprite
sand umbra
he can take the place of one of the sand elementals iirc
summer sentinel
@gilded crow You need to provide more to your reasoning than just what you've given just so far of "should be" with others, because it's not clear still or apparent why he should be added into the HoTE recipe
hollow sierra
sand ele and cloud ele kinda do the same thing
summer sentinel
(also if you mention about giving him an independent spawn item, mention the reasoning as to why that should happen since that can be incorporated into the HoTE talk)
gilded crow
ok, can I re write the suggestion then?
summer sentinel
yea you can edit your suggestion or post a new one, either one is up to you
craggy stratus
the only reason why they download calamity is because of hote
gilded crow
done, hope it's at least slightly better
cobalt pewter
Virgin waifus vs chad earth elemental
cobalt pewter
what
gilded crow
nani?
sand umbra
in what universe is earth ele female
gilded crow
in the wiki, it only is refered to as it/they
summer sentinel
I mean if you want confirmation, best to ask a dev on it since I have no idea but I don't think that's applicable here anyways so w/e
Also your suggestion is much better now griss, you're good now
tawny garden
Earth Elemental is also apparently a Horse
summer sentinel
what
tawny garden
public class Horse : ModNPC
base.DisplayName.SetDefault("Earth Elemental");
summer sentinel
Whack
fossil mural
violet minnow
where are people getting the base code for the mod
also people need to read the pins more
before posting
tawny garden
become a wiki editor
violet minnow
yah but wtf would I edit
tawny garden
or a programmer
radiant meadow
because it is
tawny garden
wiki contributor != wiki editor
violet minnow
well your wiki contrib and you have access (i assume otherwise where would you have gotten that)
tawny garden
I don't
radiant meadow
I'm pretty sure it's called Horse based on some older sprite.
violet minnow
ye it is
radiant meadow
and if Philo had the real code, he would know it's not preceded by base smh
DisplayName.SetDefault("Earth Elemental");
true so that was just mostly made up stuff which went along with info you already had
zenith hazel
the insane dps potential drataliornus already has is enough of an incentive for players not to take hits
sleek turret
Uhh, about the last suggestion at all, uhh, @primal stream please could you Shift + Enter?
zenith hazel
faster adrenaline charging would only break it even more, especially when scal already nerfs your adrenaline on purpose
tawny garden
@sleek turret it already has a linebreak
summer sentinel
On top of that from Brav^ drat is balanced enough in its current state, it doesn't need a change, as both the main fire and alt fire for drat is powerful enough on scal easily
sleek turret
mobile view confuses me
zenith hazel
alt kinda sucks rn byeah
summer sentinel
alt fire, average time is 4 mins
the test is only like 4-ish months old, has it changed that much if we take into account the new bros?
summer sentinel
I typed in drat and it did not index that
zenith hazel
equiver was fuck back then
cobalt pewter
@zenith hazel actually what I meant isn't faster adren charging, it's more on the fact that adren has DR on full charge, so the suggestion was meant to make Drata's primary a bit more inline with that specific trait of adren
Time to reword
summer sentinel
equiver buff in changelogs will help that though but then again, no point in testing it right now since there are plans™️ to do
summer sentinel
but fair enough yeah it's ok at best now, though you could just get better aim too Brav
cobalt pewter
summer sentinel
Brav why did you use sharpened as a buff waht
cobalt pewter
It's 11pm and I'm still doing brownie orders with my sis
zenith hazel
copy paste
summer sentinel
drat is not a melee weapon 
zenith hazel
it can be if I beat you to death with it
cobalt pewter
summer sentinel
Yeah with scal always staying x coordinate distance away from you unless she or you dash into each other
gray nebula
based sugg
cobalt pewter
ashen warren
dreamy oyster
How do I react to a suggestion more than once
tawny garden
you can't
dreamy oyster
Poopy
dreamy oyster
It is the joke
summer sentinel
I'm with Iban on this, kind of based
The price of enchanted metal can be reduced but it shouldn't be removed imo, since if it's cheaper than it would be technically the faster option than getting other mats
sand umbra
I don't think that's what based means
although then again the meaning of based changes on the fucking minute so
civic pond
kill it.
foggy plover
kill it, I support this
sand umbra
the Draedon's Arsenal mats
dreamy oyster
kill it
civic pond
eah
hot zephyr
based on WHAT?!??!?!
civic pond
we have plenty of other viable materials now
dreamy oyster
based on ur mum huhu I’m so funny and original
sand umbra
with the addition of the Draedon's Arsenal mats there's no more "what else can an easy recipe be made with"
civic pond
speaking of which we've been meaning to kill a lot of the pointless ones and start replacing em with mats that already exist
the underutilized ones
sand umbra
because you can just allow recipes similar to those of vanilla but with the souls replaced with plating and circuitry
sleek turret
make it so mech boss summons use draedon materials and enchanted metal
civic pond
sand umbra
as far as I'm concerned, Enchanted Metal is a relic of a bygone age
an age where easier-to-gather, more suitable materials for making mech summons easier to get didn't exist and the Mechs were post-Mechs balance-wise as well as being disgustingly overtuned
cobalt pewter
Also mech boss spawners can DEFINITELY use arsenal mats
sleek turret
Yes™
sleek turret
Because in the lore, its says that the mechs are Draedon's creations, and maybe have used arsenal materials at all.
hot zephyr
Does Steampunker sell mech summons before or after they're defeated?
hot zephyr
make them sold before and then delet enchanted metal 
cobalt pewter
I should probably detail that
sleek turret
After defeated specific mech boss.
sand umbra
why would you make them sold before what
that's inconsistent with every other boss summon purchase in Calamity
hot zephyr
:boohoo:
dreamy oyster
WAIT DID THEY NERF THE MECHS
sleek turret
yes
dreamy oyster
hallejuah
sand umbra
the Rev+ Mechs used to be disgustingly overtuned, like even disregarding how Rev+ = higher difficulty
they have had a long series of nerfs, particularly in recent times
hot zephyr
old sprime 
dreamy oyster
I remember playing and never being able to beat the mechs in death mode, this is good news
sand umbra
from what I remember Prime was a right bastard when he first got reworked
gray nebula
ngl only stopping at encasing SS in a shell would be a boring rework 
dreamy oyster
Replace all boss sprites with tiny orbs.
violet minnow
well i was gonna say to move it later in world gen to prevent it from turning into lava but i felt that would be a bit much
dreamy oyster
Increased difficulty
gray nebula
thats still very boring for a rework lol
violet minnow
i only watch world gen i dont actually code world gen
ill change it to change sunken sea world gen
cobalt pewter
Just make it somewhat incorporated onto underground desert in terms of gen
gray nebula
if ss is gonna get recoded it would be cool if it had more open spaces instead of just sort of like underground desert but navystone ft orbs of stuff
sand umbra
yeah it'd be nice if the Sunken Sea structurally wasn't just
UG Desert 2
peaceful mode edition
cobalt pewter
It definitely makes sense in the scope of the lore, but the fact that these 2 biomes are too... disconnected...is actually iffy for me
So Sunken Sea could not be this weird oval thing and can actually be seen as the "lost" part of UG desert by incorporating its design into UG desert naturally
violet minnow
ye sunken sea is a bit strange, but vinalla world gen is a pain to change
so changing underground desert would probably be hard
summer sentinel
changing SS worldgen to have a shell around it sounds like something that might've been talked about but voted no against, but not sure since that's dev talk.
tawny garden
it has been sugged
cobalt pewter
I'm def not saying to change UG Desert as well, just adjusting the way how SS gens so that it can feel like that the biome is somewhat connected with UG desert naturally, like a proper extension that pulls it down
sand umbra
in what universe would you need to change UG desert to make Sunken Sea actually feel like a lost sea under the once-ocean desert
violet minnow
idk
cobalt pewter
Fuck my brain is like my breakfast egg at 12am
gray nebula
ss would be the perfect place for subnautica reference actually compared to the super thin abyss
cobalt pewter
summer sentinel
well then that suggestion answers the current sugg's point as is to have the shell be a giant well, circular body of water and therefore, avoid draining into other parts of the world
sand umbra
"how do you do it without changing UG Desert gen"
you can make the Sunken Sea not just a fucking oval, for starters 
cobalt pewter
make abyss endless
summer sentinel
No. Abyss being endless is scary
foggy plover
square sunken sea returns
sand umbra
have it transition from UG desert into this more open space
violet minnow
hmm
violet minnow
i general rework of sunken sea gen would be nice, but i dont want to make that larger sugg
sand umbra
if you can afford to make the thinn af Abyss transition like that you can afford to make the Sunken Sea not an awkwardly-placed oval with no connection to UG Desert structurally
violet minnow
the reason i made this sugg so simple is cause i dont want it to get rejectedfor being too complex
but i also wanted to be more general than the old sugg
so if it was accepted it would be more flexiable
cobalt pewter
No. Abyss being endless is scary
To be fair, at some point subnautica exploration becomes essentially underwater hell
Byech
robust lava
Isn't SS gen gonna be changed anyway when Cal 1.4 comes out
violet minnow
idk
tawny garden
it will be
tawny garden
cause stupid red
river glen
dratanilous?
tawny garden
in 1.4
river glen
wtf
tawny garden
made the UG Desert height vaiable
cobalt pewter
river glen
wtf is this
cobalt pewter
Meme sugg
violet minnow
even with ss world gen change i want there to be some sort of shell prevention
river glen
that i read
cobalt pewter
tawny garden
@dreamy oyster no
pine star
WHY
tawny garden
@summer sentinel kill
dreamy oyster
There is no logical reason not to. Aesthetics is unimportant for quality gameplay.
summer sentinel
Why am I deleting it again
unreal viper
Aesthetics are very important
tawny garden
double ping smh
cobalt pewter
Just read the thing
unreal viper
Lauren, look at it
summer sentinel
Okay this suggestion looks trolly point taken
dreamy oyster
This suggestion is not problematic in any way. I read the document detailing problematic suggestions, and this does not fit any of them.
unreal viper
Screen shoted it right before deletion
zenith hazel
just because it doesn't violate don'ts doesn't make it 100% valid
summer sentinel
You can not just suggest to remove all the sprites and replace them with tiny circles and ambiguous things, that's just a bit of common sense
dreamy oyster
This is an unironic suggestion, I believe that removing the obsession with aesthetics would be a step in the right direction for the calamity mod
violet minnow
even if it got 200 votes the devs would just vote no
summer sentinel
I don't think that's "right direction" at all when the sprites and the spriters who spent time making them are just gone and removed now
dreamy oyster
We must examine our beliefs instead of simply taking them at face value as “common sense”.
tawny garden
it's a joke
I mean to be fair there is no defiition of a joke sugg
summer sentinel
I wish Iban saw this
dreamy oyster
Sunk cost fallacy.
tawny garden
but it's a joke sugg
robust lava
"obsession with aesthetics" - it's called just having sprites for things
gray nebula
just ping me
cobalt pewter
I wish Iban saw this
it'd be a field day for him
zenith hazel
that doesn't lighten the work load of spriters in any way
gray nebula
what happend
zenith hazel
it just makes a mockery of the work put in to sprite the minibosses in the first place
summer sentinel
Iban I'll DM it to you, give me a second 
gray nebula
awesome!
zenith hazel
but anyway, suggestion is deleted, moving on
dreamy oyster
This is a much more efficient method of labor distribution. Keeping the current usage of spriter’s labor is mean spirited and inefficient.
cobalt pewter
dreamy oyster
This is mod abuse.
cobalt pewter
Jrrifififi
tawny garden
cobalt pewter
What
summer sentinel
Sunken Sea having a shell around it can visually look cool too as long as it smoothens out to look like a giant circle thoguh, so it looks like a shelled circle with a gem inside of it, gem being that of the crystals
unreal viper
Look at some point
violet minnow
ye
zenith hazel
I've already said move on, you're just digging yourself a deeper hole at this point
unreal viper
You take a joke too far
dreamy oyster
I legitimately give a suggestion that could be implanted as a fun mode, and you all shit in it. Smh.
violet minnow
i would like a shell with crystals