Oo
#suggestions-discussion
proper grail
TBH I've considered a third charm for lava
cobalt pewter
Lava Charm: 
proper grail
Lava shell 
serene fox
why though
serene fox
celestial shell is used a bit
proper grail
It's a decent upgrade
serene fox
definitely not moon charm
cobalt pewter
I was thinking to add true melee dmg bonus to werewolf form
serene fox
sounds fine
crude geode
Does anyone use any of the pieces of celestial shell alone?
summer sentinel
c shell is probably used less in consideration to how samurai badge/yharim insignia/badge of bravery all got essentially buffs
serene fox
no...
crude geode
I feel like the only crafting fodder accessory that is used is the emblems tbh.
summer sentinel
suggestion a buff to moon charm alone wouldn't be most practical since it's the same stats as vanilla, however, something for c shell could be intriguing
proper grail
I'm for it
cobalt pewter
Something for c shell hm
crude geode
Buffing celestial shell is really difficult. It’s already a decent accessory, it’s just that calamity accessories outclass it overall really.
unreal viper
Why would celestial shell need a buff?
cobalt pewter
c shell is probably used less in consideration to how samurai badge/yharim insignia/badge of bravery all got essentially buffs
cobalt pewter
But what I initially had in mind is simply adding true melee dmg to werewolf form
unreal viper
Buff to the moon charm?
cobalt pewter
Essentially so
crude geode
ah yes more true melee support
unreal viper
I like it
cobalt pewter
ah yes more true melee support
river glen
hmm, soo future suggestion
just puting this
as my suggestion do list
"make frog leg effect not stack on itself"
crude geode
future sugg 
I feel like everyone is overestimating the usefulness of that. You have to have multiple acc slots dedicated to it, and you still have to, yknow, dodge horizontally
But it’ll have to be seen in game first.
crude geode
idk moving up at the speed of light doesn’t sound the best in combat, but again future content sugg
foggy plover
why do you think bean got nerfed and grav pot enrages a bunch of bosses
also if you mean the frog accessories in 1.4 those are gonna get tested and most likely killed
cobalt pewter
Some hushes say only Amphibian Boots do the funky, but other Froge Leg upgrades don't stack with each other. Could be wrong tho
river glen
and being able to no hit bosses in master mode with ez
@cobalt pewter they do stack with each other
crude geode
Master mode bosses are the same as expert mode bosses.
cobalt pewter
can we delete Amphibian Boots in cal
foggy plover
why are you thinking about sugging something the creator of the mod mentioned??
foggy plover
yea but its
crude geode
Off topic.
foggy plover
nvm
crude geode
I have a problem with true melee/melee in general getting even more acc support, but that doesn’t mean it’s not valid.
foggy plover
No.
crude geode
People would throw a fit.
crude geode
Trashing Red is a favorite hobby amongst suggestors.
crude geode
Not to say he doesn’t deserve some of it, but people disregard the work he’s done with terraria in favor of everything wrong he’s ever done in his life.
byech
Sugg seems valid.
cobalt pewter
crude geode
I have my problems with melee getting another accessory ofc but it’s still valid
cobalt pewter
Moon Charm do be here since, like, 1.2 no?
crude geode
I meant another accessory they can use.
cobalt pewter
I'm just usually trying to cater to these so called "arbitrary sub classes" really
True melee, stealth rogue
maybe sentry summoner question mark?
cobalt pewter
crude geode
Think about the fact that there isn’t a pure summoner sentry armor in vanilla, even with OOA and then realize there’s no support in vanilla for a pure sentry summoner. Which means it has to be built from the ground up.
crude geode
Yeah, I would suggest more accessories for mage and ranger but I wanna give time inbetween suggestions first.
and if you want reasoning behind that, go look at hardmode and post-ML class setups and compare ranger/mage to melee.
ashen warren
thats amazing
serene fox
not like mage really needs any extra accessories
it's already one of the most pwerful classes in cal
but yes accessory variety would be nice
glass sentinel
it's already one of the most pwerful classes in cal
except for od
summer sentinel
Mage is powerful enough, it's fine, trust me
serene fox
thundertorm exists fyi
summer sentinel
so does phantasmal fury and that one magic wep polter drops
glass sentinel
good point
crude geode
it's already one of the most pwerful classes in cal
Didn't realize this apparent tier list
Ranged in Pre-HM has 1 accessory. 1. Just because they don't need accessories doesn't mean that melee, rogue, and summoner get to have 5 billion accessories while Mage and Ranger have max 4 or so available and viable at any point in time. If you're talking weapon variety, melee already has the most weapon variety in the game, with more weapons than any other class.
Rogue and Summoner I get having accessories, since summoner always has a ton, and Rogue's thing is variety via bandit and just general accessories. But does melee really need two scarves, Evasion Scarf and Bloody Worm Scarf, while Ranged has magic quiver and it's emblem, and Magic gets only it's vanilla accessories?
cobalt pewter
Doesn't mage get Sigil of Calamitas at some point?
cobalt pewter
Mhm
crude geode
permafrost concoction
foggy plover
underrated accessory
foggy plover
oh yea, chaos stone (garbo stat stick byeah), and mana overloader
crude geode
I don't really count ethereal talisman since that's just the typical penultimate class accessory that every class gets.
cobalt pewter
Stones 👏 need 👏 reworks 👏
foggy plover
scarfs are just true melee, so is symbiote
foggy plover
evasion and counter scarf
summer sentinel
perma concoct is good for when you get it up until levi, than it falls off I think
crude geode
evasion scarf isn't tho.
"The buff grants +10% damage, +10% crit chance, and 15% melee speed. The debuff will temporarily prevent the user from dodging any more attacks, though the user is still able to dash.
The scarf also increases damage of true melee hits by 25%."
cobalt pewter
Evasion Scarf is true melee all the time, while it gives additional boosts after a dodge
crude geode
ah ye
serene fox
that's just true melee
crude geode
that's what confused me
byech true melee is becoming more and more a part of melee's identity.
cobalt pewter
true melee over projectile melee let's fucking gooooooo
byech true melee is becoming more and more a part of melee's identity.
To be honest Melee™ still prevails
But true melee is at least doable for the most part
crude geode
mhm.
Disregarding an accessory as melee oriented because it's true melee...seems kinda weird to me though.
hot zephyr
It's a waste of a sugg space because the underground astral biome is already getting changed in the future
hot zephyr
but like... it's already happening
cobalt pewter
Hm, where didja get that?
crude geode
it's not currently on gears right now, and chetto said it was fine to be suggested.
hot zephyr
Fab talked about it while streaming
cobalt pewter
Ahhh
summer sentinel
It's underway but the sugg still stands regardlesssss
hot zephyr
Shame
cobalt pewter
do I really need to tune into vc from now on
summer sentinel
if anything it'll just emphasize the change but dunno, other things planned rn
hot zephyr
~~Fab actually says a lot about future content in the fabstreams 
~~
crude geode
Considering the current changelogs is classified as "Draedon Update" I feel like there's something else being worked on 
summer sentinel
oh you know it
cobalt pewter
well frick, I'll need to start writing this down
summer sentinel
But I can not tell :]
hot zephyr
There's always future content being worked on
They've got shit planned out far into the future
Lauren send screenshots of the Distortion World pls
cobalt pewter
the what
summer sentinel
that's not a thing even yet
crude geode
anyways yeah the sugg stands.
hot zephyr
Ya already said that
crude geode
yes I'm trying to get us back on suggestions
summer sentinel
it was just future biomes and things Fab said in streams probably to implement way into the future
hot zephyr
ya but they're cool 
crude geode
You could prolly count the number of mage or ranged accessories calamity adds on one, maybe two hands tbh.
hot zephyr
That's just a problem with Calamity in general
like 80% of the class accessories are Rogue
cobalt pewter
like 80% of the class accessories are Rogue
foggy plover
OH
cobalt pewter
Honestly
crude geode
mmmmm but that's also a modded class, and it's part of what they do.
cobalt pewter
Some of these could be integrated into perm upgrades
Byeah, rogue has a lot of accs because it's funne new class
hot zephyr
disclaimer; a lot of the things I've heard about future content are from the Fabstreams and I'm not sure how much is legit and how much is drunken rambling
I do remember distinctly that Fabsol was talking about wanting to change up the Astral Infection's underground generation and give it more proper worldgen instead of being purple Hallow
crude geode
*aside from a summoner acc and a few weapons
hot zephyr
Not true, you're forced to drop down there for a summon ac
crude geode
ye.
hot zephyr
the shit I heard about coming to Post-ML was dope though, it's so far off though so I'm 90% sure it'll be changed
civic pond
its
hot zephyr
but topic
civic pond
mostly empty
hot zephyr
It's pretty empty
it'd be neat if the underground astral infection got a change post DoG
civic pond
It'll probably have stuff added throughout the entirety of it eventually
hot zephyr
Yes
~~astral infection underground but one of the astral bosses is reworked to be an underground fight ~~
summer sentinel
Deus with burrowing ai
hot zephyr
Yes
That'd actually be fun if they got reverted to the 9 worms version
Just having a bunch of the fuckers flying at you
real steppe
do you like Deus better when it has 9 worms or something
hot zephyr
No
real steppe
or do you like Deus better rn?
hot zephyr
I'm just saying if it was underground, a bunch of small worms would be more interesting than two long bois
Current Deus is great
real steppe
I absolutely hated the 9 worm Deus because the mines are so bull and the lag is insane
cobalt pewter
I'm
hot zephyr
So nothing changed
cobalt pewter
Pretty sure none of the Astral bosses enrage outside of their biome
zenith hazel
or just use astral solution
hot zephyr
Astral is too small for that
Especially since both bosses require a lot of vertical movement
golden narwhal
Do the bosses even despawn outside the astral?
I'm almost certain deus doesn't, tho idk about aureus
foggy plover
no
cobalt pewter
No, Aureus only if too far
hollow sierra
apperantly not, seems like a recent change
golden narwhal
Then, uh, that part of your reasoning is invalid, ig
coarse bronze
Can I ask something
zenith hazel
they have never despawned outside of astral
zenith hazel
if it’s not relevant to suggestions then move to a different channel
yep, not relevant
move to #help-advice-read-pins for that
crude geode
Amidias Trident is really cringe tbh, it's a ranged, homing "melee" weapon after the first boss in calamity
hot zephyr
go sugg a rework to it if you hate it so much
I haven't used it after the multiple reworks got dropped onto it
crude geode
I would but
A) I don't think much of the community would like it
B) I have other suggestion ideas I care more about
zenith hazel
devs already know how stupid trident is
crude geode
gotcha
hot zephyr
Is the Trident even that viable? It's been nerfed into mediocrity
cobalt pewter
Make the projectile spawn on true melee hits
Boom ez
Trident is stupidly viable for EoC last time I tried, didn't try past that
hot zephyr
I'd just use Starfury instead
hot zephyr
That won't solve the issue
crude geode
^
hot zephyr
It ain't the range
cobalt pewter
Homing is primary issue imo
hot zephyr
It's the homing spam
cobalt pewter
Homing spam is better way to put it ye
river glen
i dont see the problem
hot zephyr
turn the whirlpool shot into a right click with a super slow firing speed
and then make it do bonus damage after a true melee hit
zenith hazel
it homes, it goes through walls, it’s a post-ds wep
cobalt pewter
cobalt pewter
I approve of true melee engagements for existing Melee™ weapons
summer sentinel
Yeah, it needs a damage buff right
crude geode
hot zephyr
I think more weapons need combos between melee and true melee
cobalt pewter
Yes
river glen
Just make amidias trident a true melee trident that releases a whirpool after a true hit
hot zephyr
That's boring though
crude geode
^
hot zephyr
:facedesk:
crude geode
removing the reason why people use a weapon doesn't fix the weapon being really stupid, it just makes nobody use it.
river glen
god
hot zephyr
If you made it true melee it'd be instant F tier
river glen
just reduce the projectile speed
hot zephyr
It's a slow spear with no range
river glen
or just make it faster
just reduce the damage of it
fixing the damage until its balanced
will solve the problem
just nerf the stats until it fits in
crude geode
no. it's fine.
coarse bronze
time to kill BoC with only a trident
sand umbra
well ain't it convenient I looked in here before talking
cobalt pewter
sand umbra
and now because I looked in here first before posting the sugg, nobody can yell at me
cobalt pewter
The very last point in there seems a bit convoluted
summer sentinel
The first option would probably be more effective than the second, don't think the whirlpool would be more preferred to removing it entirely
sand umbra
I dunno, the way y'all talk about that beast of a whirlpool makes it sound an awful lot like the weapon would be better off for balancin' purposes with some other thing in place of it
now, I dunno how you lot feel about it specifically, but given the amount of testin'-related complaints towards Amidias' Trident specifically, with virtually all of them bein' exclusively because of the whirlpool it fires and having nothing to do with the actual Trident itself, that's what I've gathered
civic pond
never been a fan of the weapon personally
i think the first option has already been done more than once actually?
sand umbra
I don't think Amidias' Trident ever had a true strike effect
and when I say weakening the whirlpool I mean making it not do everything which still hasn't been done
Amidias' Trident has more utility and versatility than virtually any other weapon anywhere near it and it's a post-DS spear
sand umbra
byeah
cobalt pewter
Weakening the whirlpool should include not making it go through tiles imo 
summer sentinel
Trident never had a true strike effect no, afaik that is, it's just homing whirlpools that did good damage and would make doing the perfs/hive mind fight a lot more easier like because of how accurate and quick the homing was
tile ignoring isn't as big of a thing as how rapidly accurate the homing was, I just know this from when it was really nice to use on perf fight
tranquil perch
Ping me for discussion relating to my suggestion
inland saddle
@proper grail iirc fab said something about already existing plans to possibly add more to the underground Astral biome in the future
earnest cape
hollow sierra
biome overlap 
It would be nice if you could manually place where you wanted biomes to go
inland saddle
Lightning rods for meteors
earnest cape
real steppe
is hm giant clam that hard?
earnest cape
#help-advice-read-pins and no you just need to move actively to avoid the projectiles
golden narwhal
They were referring to the most recent sugg, ig
golden narwhal
I'm the opposite
then again, haven't fought clam in a hot minute
earnest cape
Oof
@earnest raptor I see but where's the reasoning behind it saying "it's pointless" doesn't really help
tranquil perch
Hm giant clam is
I have laid out all the reasons for it already
In the suggestions
earnest cape
indeed
golden narwhal
(Since you're here, photo, the lines referring to the crate drops doesn't seem necessary for this sugg)
earnest cape
imagine fighting hm clam
golden narwhal
(Or at least the last one)
tranquil perch
(Since you're here, photo, the lines referring to the crate doesn't seem necessary for this sugg)
I mentioned that bcuz "just fish for it lol" can be pretty frustrating to hear
Byeah ill remove the last line then
golden narwhal
Aight 
earnest cape
wegud
tranquil perch
But i still think you should at least have defeated clam for loot to drop, instead of just having it drop whenever, imagine if abyssa crates dropped aquatic scourge loot in early hm
Same thing basically
golden narwhal
Agreed
earnest cape
That's a fair argument
earnest raptor
Edited.
golden narwhal
P sure there was a sugg about it before (not sure if it wasi from you)
tranquil perch
With that said ill remove the lsst line then
P sure there was a sugg about it before (not sure if it wasi from you)
@golden narwhal about clam?
golden narwhal
The clam crate drops
earnest raptor
Anything about my ggestion?
crude geode
Removal is very unlikely.
summer sentinel
the swords aren't getting removed, the sugg is fine, I think reworks for both are happening but not 100% on it
shortswords/shibs are basically not the greatest until you get to terra shiv basically
crude geode
personally, I don’t feel like giant clam can be harder than say, brimmy, tbh
Like, abyss already vibe checks your water maneuverability.
tranquil perch
Flipper potion and gills potion
crude geode
(the pre-hm/post-skeletron version)
course I’m used to Deathmode abyss and not revengeance abyss
tranquil perch
What happens in deathmode abyss
crude geode
Requirements for things are boosted.
tranquil perch
crude geode
Need more air things to breathe better, need more light things to actually see, etc.
crude geode
Like, abyss already vibe checks your water maneuverability.
crude geode
Which means you should have the same maneuverability for clam, as long as you’re in the center of the sunken sea you should have generally enough space.
tranquil perch
In death mode
Which means you should have the same maneuverability for clam, as long as you’re in the center of the sunken sea you should have generally enough space.
@crude geode do you expect it to spawn in the center
crude geode
No. Do I expect the player to fight the miniboss in the center, where there is the most space? Yes.
tranquil perch
I literally fought it in my boss arena because it teleported home with me and still died
The attacks were still hard to dodge
Brimmy is easier
earnest raptor
Is glitch with moving brimstone crap blocks into space still here?
golden narwhal
I want to say that's objectively false
crude geode
^
but unironically.
Like, for clam as long as you’re watching his movements, using your hook, and are fighting him in the center or in a space blown up by dynamite, it shouldn’t be too difficult if you know the basic pattern of attacks.
hollow sierra
1.4 also brings directional shortswords so perhaps sit tight for that
crude geode
people really like bringing up 1.4
hollow sierra
its very relevant to the shortsword sugg
earnest raptor
1.4 also brings directional shortswords so perhaps sit tight for that
@hollow sierra even with that, it will still ech.
earnest raptor
Exactly
crude geode
speaking of things that only exist to mirror other things, how about the differences between Carnage and Night’s Ray, hm?
cobalt pewter
earnest cape
color :)
crude geode
The fact that effort was put in to sprite two different weapons, and then not giving them unique effects baffles me.
manic aspen
what if they added armor sets for draedons arsenal
earnest cape
I think the devs are planning on making draedon armor which is auric but tankier
manic aspen
EPIC
it doesn't feel right that there's weapons without an armor set
there's no as much satisfaction from using them
earnest cape
400 defense with melee variant
hollow sierra
blood butcher and light's bane differences when
earnest cape
who knows and this is getting off topics lul
manic aspen
if they add draedon armor that removes the need to install any other content mod
cobalt pewter
hollow sierra
you probably need to charge that armor
cobalt pewter
Imagine not being able to move once the charge is out
manic aspen
aassadaffdbnn
cobalt pewter
manic aspen
set bonuses would probably just weaken
hhhh i can't explain it
what i mean is like there's something for everybody's interests so you don't need any more content mods
hollow sierra
mixing content mods is a bad idea anyway
summer sentinel
indeed, or if you mix them, just know what you're getting yourself into
manic aspen
i suppose you are right.
sleek hornet
Everyone wants true melee to be buffed but no one cares about flails 
crude geode
Flails get changed in 1.4 so like changing them is kinda a moot point.
earnest cape
flails in clam are pretty fine imo and yeah 1.4 flail change is coming\
swift wharf
i noticed that most flails in calamity are actually launched
and not the spinning one
cobalt pewter
My last sugg might be a bit too...rant-y
I can hold it back when doing true melee run, but somehow I lost it when doing summoner and made that sugg
serene fox
tbh the worst part of her fight is where you have to fight her
she still enrages outside of the crags and they're small as fuck
cobalt pewter
That could be a fair assessment as well
But my personal issue is with cocoon attack
serene fox
I liked this suggestion a lot #suggestions-voting message
makes crags more interesting and helps with the brimmy fight as well
crude geode
but not ⚙️ ed, or whatever the symbol is
hollow sierra
biomes just need to be more vertical in general
serene fox
🛠️
cobalt pewter
:hammer_and_scythe:
Ah
ANYWAY
Crags gen buff, pogger
How's my sugg with cocoon attack
heady storm
serene fox
seems fine ig
although the last time I fought brimmy was when she was on bath salts
byeah
cobalt pewter
although the last time I fought brimmy was when she was on bath salts
crude geode
I personally have more of a problem with brimstone crag generation and hell generation in general than one specific part of brimmy
heady storm
A change to crag generation instead.
crude geode
Yeah
The underworld isn’t the underworld because of the demons btw, it’s because of the abysmal generation it has that makes fighting Wall of Flesh just entirely an arena build.
earnest cape
I 100% agree
the brimstone crags are a bit of a nuisance since it's just there blocking you from making your arena with enemies that are typically annoying to deal with and i honestly just like running to the right when fighting wall
crude geode
Yeah less of a problem with the attack imo, and more with brimstone crag generation in general.
earnest raptor
Does brimstone crag forms outside of hell?
ashen warren
its in the underworld
eternal escarp
you can indeed make an artificial crag biome last time i checked
crude geode
Huh never noticed that, tbh. Still feels kinda inconvenient depending on how fast you can mine slag, but ¯_(ツ)_/¯
tawny garden
also guess what
if you make an artificial Brimstone Crag, enemies will spawn in it
this annoyed a lot of people who wanted to have a Brimstone-themed house
river glen
so just a question, what have people thought about amidias trident so far
crude geode
amidias trident cringe.
crude geode
what, no, why, how does that fix the problem of it not being a melee weapon.
river glen
ok
make the trident itself faster
and make the whirpool activate on a true melee strike
river glen
ik
i saw it
its a problamatic wepaon
desert scourge weapon
that lasts up to pre perfs/hive mind
which maybe is broken
sand umbra
that's not really the problematic part
a post-DS wep lasting you until Perfs or Hive Mind ain't that bad
the problematic part is that, as I said earlier last night:
Amidias' Trident has more utility and versatility than virtually any other weapon anywhere near it and it's a post-DS spear
river glen
hmm, so whats ur idea
make the trident itself faster and make the whirpool activate on a true melee strike
make it true mele
or just make it lose some of those properties
like it dosent go throught walls
sand umbra
my idea is to suggest reworking it to become more melee-focused and let the devs figure out the exact details
river glen
like it dosent home at all
sand umbra
and that's exactly what I did
(and it'll get nowhere near 200 stars, too, because nobody likes having their god weapons toned down)
river glen
kinda is gonna happen when the wepaon is loved
like if u suggest a hated boss to be buffed for ex aureus, it will be disliked
sand umbra
most you can really do is at least make the attempt
plant that seed in people's minds
unreal viper
you might be able to convince the devs even if you can't convince the people.
sand umbra
and that's why it's important to plant that seed of a concept in people's minds
even if the initial sugg doesn't clear the star threshold, the idea is out there
and it's entirely possible for a sugg to influence what all is looked into for reworks and such, I think
tawny garden
It's possible and it does occasionally happen
river glen
well
amidias
might be the sole
weapon
that is a pain in the ass
to balance
the projectile is broken
soo why not rework that part
craggy stratus
@fossil mural you didnt mention the debuff umbraphile give
foggy plover
titan heart is getting nerfed, umbra definitely doesnt need a buff
zealous ridge
Umbra don’t need a buff ye
But Titan does just look overtund
they seem to have very similar set bonuses though
as far as power goes umbra is fine atm, but one or the other having a more distinct set bonus could be nice
fossil mural
Oh I never noticed the debuff
zealous ridge
umbra inflicts daybroken and nightwither yes
with the explosions
umbraphile debuffs are about raw damage so you theoretically deal about 600 extra damage with the debuffs in isolation
astral infection debuff lasts longer and has a slight defense decrease, but otherwise is weaker in overall damage
swift fulcrum
umbraphile is more of a spam rogue set
sand umbra
that makes no sense though
like, given the stuff it's made with, shouldn't it be a stealth-oriented set?
foggy plover
how?
zealous ridge
its not really a spam set
like, its moreso the titan heart is anti-spam set
so that makes umbra more inclined to it, but it isnt designed around that at all
i think it could be more oriented around stealth
zealous ridge
nor does it really need to be i suppose
maybe it could, idk
if we go off of the baseline of, say, the accessible ore armor at that point being "non-oriented"
in this case, reaver
sharp prism
cant you get it post calam
zealous ridge
then umbraphile could be a set oriented around making stealth more powerful than it would be with reaver
i think? im not sure when solar veil starts dropping but i think it's post plant
might be that it can drop post cal as well but im not sure on that
swift wharf
either cal or plant
sand umbra
it's post-Clonamitas-or-Plantera, yeah
zealous ridge
for the purpose of this argument i will assume umbraphile is meant to be on-tier with reaver, at least
which i think is somewhat fair to assume
ashen warren
doesnt umbra give that one debuff which is kinda op
sharp prism
calam is intended to be fought right before plantera
zealous ridge
it gives 2 high dps debuffs
nightwither and daybroken together is roughly 200 dps
and basically 600 free damage over the course of 3 seconds, assuming the debuff is applied once
swift wharf
isnt it one during the day and one during the night?
zealous ridge
the wiki does not clarify
swift wharf
wait wrong weapon maybe
zealous ridge
but i know thats a case in some weapons
swift wharf
a postml melee wp does that ye
zealous ridge
like solstice claymore
and stellar contempt, oddly enough
generally speaking its a really early-game source of nightwither infliction
as well as daybroken
so theres little immunity and the damage is exceptionally high for that tier
the only earlier source of nightwither is the stealth strike on icebreaker
so very niche
zealous ridge
damage boosts are on-par with umbraphile
and the explosions on stealth strike are even stronger, fsr
river glen
ooh...
zealous ridge
the drawback is a 15% reduction in attack speed
zealous ridge
which serves to encourage using the overclocked stealth strikes anyways
cobalt pewter
How does Umbraphile having 10 more stealth than titan heart bad
Also Umbraphile makes Penumbra potion a flat 20% stealth regen bonus regardless of time
summer sentinel
Chill said it above but Titan heart armor will eventually get the nerf because the stealth strike explosions on it are really strong and furthermore, umbraphile doesn’t need a buff, it’s good where it stands
for when you get it, it can take you up to probably LC quite easily, depends really
cobalt pewter
Yeah I'm just mainly pointing out why Umbraphile doesn't need a buff
I already knew Titan Heart is gon be nerfed even before Chill said it
thanks spider
river glen
i feel like aero stone needs a buff
a small one
or nerf frog leg
cuz it makes a lot of jump boosting accessories bad
/outclassed
and arent worth using
summer sentinel
frog legs will be adjusted when tml 1.4 drops due to the frog accessories
glass sentinel
aero stone is also really good
cobalt pewter
The stones need a complete rework to not just be minor stats imo
Like
Stones are objectively boring accs
river glen
aero stone is really good, just not good enough to use over frog leg
glass sentinel
i mean its linda meh when you get it at AS
river glen
which is accessable pre boss
glass sentinel
but at DS its qgood
serene fox
aero stone serves as a shitter substitute for people who are too lazy to fish (me)
sand umbra
even then
serene fox
but other than that yeah it has no reason to exist
sand umbra
Vital Jelly is a better shittier subtitute for people who are too lazy to fish
glass sentinel
can we have aero like scale into hardmode or something?
DS drops it, but so does AS
sand umbra
which, like Frog Leg, is pre-boss (thanks for moving Green Jellyfish to pre-Hardmode, Fab!)
anywho, real talk
post-HM/Perfs Aero in a floating shrine that cannot be opened until then
glass sentinel
crude geode
but why would the defeat of HM/perfs unlock it
glass sentinel
defeat of DS/AS
heady storm
Aerialite relation Ig.
glass sentinel
oooo
crude geode
aerialite’s theming is already pretty garbage so ¯_(ツ)_/¯
heady storm
So it's fine or not is what you need to specify there Cursed.
cobalt pewter
smh
heady storm
Yeah it's odd as all hell.
cobalt pewter
Aerialite
Spawns in caverns
Bruh
crude geode
Personally I would prefer aerialite to actually have consistency in it’s theming first, before aero stone gets thrown into the mix.
heady storm
I think Thomas already made a suggestion.
summer sentinel
It's not that bad cursed, it's subpar at best though I'd say, and no Lorax, I think the reason it spawns underground is just because putting it into planetoids to mine would be a bit, cumbersome, but thematically yes, it should be in the sky
glass sentinel
fair
summer sentinel
given literally every other material in aerialite armor is in the sky
sand umbra
you know what's more cumbersome
crude geode
Both me and Thomas have made suggestions on Aerialite’s dumb stupid theming.
sand umbra
putting those planetoids up there in the first place with a concerning amount of loot and ores and expecting them to be used for most of pre-boss progression to speedrun boss summon making
there's nothing less annoying about putting Aerialite underground where it can be legit fucking anywhere
as opposed to in the sky where you're likely to already know of a good few places there's bound to be some
(and you can always make Aero Slimes spawn up there too, as I mentioned when I made the sugg on this a while back!)
glass sentinel
oh yea the slimes
summer sentinel
agreeable enough because it's anywhere in caverns, as for planetoids, they just exist as an alternative way you can get pre-boss progression materials with the risk of going into space. aerialite can exist into space though for the fact by the time you have beaten perms/hivemind, you already are ready enough for space
glass sentinel
the 2nd most annoying way to get aerialite
cobalt pewter
I honestly would prefer spawning chunks straight up in the sky
Of Aerialite
And even if there's not much to go around, there are still them slimes
crude geode
except for in Deathmode, where you can’t go into the sky pre-boss Bc you’re guaranteed not to have heat and cold resist
sharp prism
exodium clusters exist and most people dont craft them, planetoids are pretty small so no reason to clog up planetoids with more ores
summer sentinel
ok the aero slimes I entirely forget then yeah, the ore should be in the sky and just nested into planetoids, just to make it as simple as it can, the problem is, you have ore planetoids and the big planetoids so...where else would you go?
summer sentinel
I don't think calamity wantrs to do the AA route where they had dark matter/radium be everywhere in the sky in space
glass sentinel
most people go there
sand umbra
(honestly I wouldn't mind there being a few different enemies that all exist primarily to drop Aerialite. could have thE stone also obtained from those enemies)
summer sentinel
exodium crafts are really good for their tier 
sharp prism
i meant most people dont craft exodium clusters
summer sentinel
~~people really forgetting eldritch soul artifact 
~~
cobalt pewter
lmao
cobalt pewter
Tbh yeah
summer sentinel
It's a good 7th slot accessory smh, it's what you get coming right into ML
cobalt pewter
Might suggest Eldritch rework idk
Other of the soul artifacts are unique
Then there's Eldritch
crude geode
I mean just because one ore exists there doesn’t mean it can’t have more. After all, most of the planetoids already have ores in them before exodium clusters exist there.
cobalt pewter
summer sentinel
rework for it to make it less of a stat accessory? sure, but it's still quite good considering you can make it right after postml
glass sentinel
the exodium gears are really good for OD and dog
like really, really, really good
summer sentinel
I think you mean the straus crafts lorax
sand umbra
like
Profaned summons 3 whole-ass guardians to defend you
Dimensional grants you a dummy thicc damage output bonus
and Godly...well, Godly isn't actually too terribly interesting
but Godly at least does something y'know?
summer sentinel
yeah they are, I just refer to them as stratus crafts because you can only make them with ruinous souls, meaning they go beyond exodium crafts galileo gladius moments
sand umbra
Eldritch is just
"have some stats"
crude geode
Godly is at least thematically cool.
glass sentinel
yeah they are, I just refer to them as stratus crafts because you can only make them with ruinous souls, meaning they go beyond exodium crafts
fair
cobalt pewter
crude geode
Eldritch doesn’t really have a relation to LC, it just is stat stick.
mage accessory pog?
glass sentinel
:summoner:
sand umbra
summoner bias real???
cobalt pewter
crude geode
you gotta have funny chicken nugget accessory tho
cobalt pewter
Yeah I'm not exactly complaining
glass sentinel
was the funny ultima spaz glitch fixed?
summer sentinel
what was the "spaz" glitch?
serene fox
place your cursor at the center of your character and shoot
your character would spaz out
don't fix it btw
glass sentinel
sad
serene fox
it's a good bug
summer sentinel
It's still not fixed but this is comical yes, I just tried it
serene fox
let's let it stay as an easter egg
summer sentinel
I mean it is technically a bug but you're never going to put your cursor ontop of your char while using ultima, there's just 0 reason as you should and that's not how you use ranger weps to begin with, that is funky though
foggy plover
its
really funny ye
we found it in testing
it looks really funny with shroom
I dont think itll be fixed because thats just
terraria
not gamebreaking at all
summer sentinel
I didn't even think of shroom, hold up
glass sentinel
it does look funny
foggy plover
I have a gif of it in mp with shroom
summer sentinel
okay this isn't really discussion related but:
glass sentinel
YES
foggy plover
but not for this channel
sand umbra
amazing
crude geode
It’s funny tho
summer sentinel
(If you want to suggest a change for it, you can go ahead though, maybe this picture can serve as evidence if you so wish)
foggy plover
ill go find it and send it in gen talk
sand umbra
anywho yeah
this channel once again showcasing why it is the king of derailing conversations
serene fox
also cursed you can mention the sever lack of mage accessories post-ml
summer sentinel
yes my apologies for that, go back to suggestions topic now
sand umbra
there's Cal's sigil, ether talisman, and fuckin' uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Mana Polarizer
yes. that is an accessory that exists
sharp prism
a expert drop
sand umbra
even then that's like
3 accessories
and it's not like magic accessories are particularly varied in vanilla, either
crude geode
Ethereal Talisman doesn’t count
sand umbra
Ethereal isn't even really a new acc it's just Sigil and Mana Flower put together
crude geode
Ah so you share my opinion that ranged and magic don’t get any accessories.
sharp prism
mage is kinda thrown under the bus with acc
sand umbra
and Sigil in and of itself is just some magic stuff put together
there's virtually nothing actually new for those who enjoy sorcery
sharp prism
there is so much wasted potential with mage acc currently
crude geode
I find it a waste with mage and ranged accessories because...ranged also gets heavily ignored. One minor accessory pre-hm, a emblem upgrade in hm, and an expert mode drop from dragonfolly.
sharp prism
melee has accessories throughout the entire game while mage and ranger dont summoner doesnt count
summer sentinel
magic is more okay than ranger though, I'll agree with ranger, all you get is a quiver, ranger emblem, then artemis, and you stick with artemis until e quiver basically. people don't use the folly drop for that really
crude geode
quiver is kinda an eh argument Bc that’s vanilla.
summer sentinel
summoner in calamity being strong is justified okay, summoner overall is a questionable class so having it be this powerful in calamity is just good
crude geode
Yeah
Rogue is an entirely new class, and part of it’s gimmick is accessory choice, so it getting so many is fine.
But melee gets so much more than ranged and mage.
sand umbra
mage is not "more okay" than ranger what
in what universe is a half-baked mage class better off than the literal god class
summer sentinel
It's slightly more okay because mage does output more DPS than ranger usually, it's a bit of a blanket stateement to make but mage is yes
I'm thinking postML mage I should've specified, it's built differently
crude geode
Ranged: Your crits can crit.
Mage: Shoot some extra stuff :)
summer sentinel
but Thomas, you'd also be correct, because ranger and mage are still both a bit accessory lacking
I just don't know how you'd go about addressing such a problem
glass sentinel
adding more?
summer sentinel
Balance 
crude geode
^?
foggy plover
im all for adding more
crude geode
I mean melee is constantly getting more.
glass sentinel
steal from melee and give to the poor
foggy plover
melee is getting more because fab likes true melee and wants it to be viable
foggy plover
and melee in general is just his favorite class
crude geode
melee is getting more because melee bias
foggy plover
ye
pretty much
summoner has a lot because without accessories it would fucking explode, rogue has a lot because its cal's special/new class
summer sentinel
wacky, didn't know melee was his favorite.
glass sentinel
yup
summer sentinel
never had that thought come across my mind
radiant meadow
his favorite dev weapon is magic though
crude geode
Music
glass sentinel
OH
sand umbra
melee is getting more because fab likes true melee and wants it to be viable
the issue is
summer sentinel
elemental excalib has no dev tag though
foggy plover
its on dev tier, he added it as another avalon reference
sand umbra
"true" melee --- i.e. what melee should be --- will never be viable in Calamity
summer sentinel
~~yes Ben, that's why I edited my sentence, thanks ~~
sand umbra
I hate saying it like that, but unless the way bosses are designed in particular significantly changes, that is the truth of things
true melee relies on the idea that there is any given opportunity to consistently get up close and personal with the enemy
...there are a grand total of like 4 or 5 bosses if being generous across the vanilla and Calamity rosters put together that consistently and clearly grant this opportunity in Rev+ a.k.a. the intended difficulty
crude geode
mhm mhm true melee
cobalt pewter
AS is surprisingly annoying on true melee
radiant meadow
Desert Scourge also collapses to true melee if you know what you're doing iirc
cobalt pewter
Oh yeha
radiant meadow
unless you eat the head in death
foggy plover
mandible claws ye
worthy lintel
how does one true melee dog phase 1
radiant meadow
crabulon also is like the best boss for true melee
cobalt pewter
worthy lintel
sand umbra
DS eating the fat die to true melee is just
DS being DS
and Mandible Claws being Mandible Claws
sand umbra
pre-boss fetid, even
radiant meadow
carnage tears slime god in half but that's more carnage than slime god
glass sentinel
tru meme is basically add's guide to being phat
sand umbra
that's Carnage being Carnage
foggy plover
damn that guide is still relevant?
worthy lintel
apparently
foggy plover
good
sand umbra
it's huge and it blows like every other true melee option in pre-HM outta the water by a mile
cobalt pewter
Also can we talk about how toggleable moonwalk not being a thing, and the fact that Gauss Dagger will have its moonwalk removed next update
sand umbra
but like look at Abyss Blade for example and then look at Slime God
wait
no
not Abyss Blade
Depth Crusher
glass sentinel
damn that guide is still relevant?
nop
crude geode
(If you ever want an example of the melee bias, go look at auric tier and look at all the melee weapons btw, there's like 6, not counting draedon stuff, while rogue has 2 whole weapons )
glass sentinel
was never useful
worthy lintel
some people consider moonwalking to be a disadvantage
sand umbra
fuck some of these trees man 
worthy lintel
glass sentinel
fuck some of these trees man :echhyperventilate:
how fucking dare you
sand umbra
not natural trees
radiant meadow
toggleable moonwalk would mean like it switches depending on primary vs secondary fire
sand umbra
crafting trees
cobalt pewter
(If you ever want an example of the melee bias, go look at auric tier and look at all the melee weapons btw, there's like 6, not counting draedon stuff, while rogue has 2 whole weapons
blame donors
glass sentinel
good
sand umbra
but like
cobalt pewter
toggleable moonwalk would mean like it switches depending on primary vs secondary fire
What I suggested at first is making Feral Claws line allow to toggle this on visibility, but making an item like Ball and Chain that toggles this on favorite is plausible too
sand umbra
...mm
what's a good item I can use to express why Slime God inflicting Cursed is a terrible idea so I can make the 12th sugg to remove it
because Cursed is a shit debuff
radiant meadow
oh, I thought you meant like gauss dagger specifically
cobalt pewter
ah no
crude geode
Love how this conversation started with mage and ranged being left out in accessories and now we're talking about melee .
cobalt pewter
glass sentinel
this conversation can be summarized by: stop giving melee all da love and love some other classes
foggy plover
classes were flawed from the beginning, any sugg gonna come from this
glass sentinel
shiver
classes were flawed from the beginning, any sugg gonna come from this
uh, no?
crude geode
My actual suggestion originally was something regarding giving ranged and mage actual accessories, but it devolved bc #suggestions-discussion goes off the rails.
sand umbra
alright well anyway back to how ranger and magic accessories don't exist
crude geode
idk, how is true melee not being viable a problem that keeps getting addressed
byech, ranger and mage accessories have no support in calamity
and it's kinda aggravating to me.
proper grail
Summoner is bad still, rogue is bad still, ranger and melee are way over bloated, and mage is just about right imo
hot zephyr
crimson crusher blade is cooler than carnage
gusty geode
Cuz when people sign up for melee they actually expect melee
And not ranger without ammo
Imo if any class besides maybe Summomer were to get more accessories
They'd have to remove some weapons to compensate
And vice versa
Cuz Ranger may not have enough accessories
But it has way too many weapons
No need to to making it even more bloated
hot zephyr
What? No
hot zephyr
We've already got enough melee weapons and accs to swim in
crude geode
Bad Opinions Squid is back from the grave
mhm
sand umbra
Crimson Crusher Blade is what again
proper grail
Well I'm trying to get my donor item to be a Post Plant/Clone summoner accessory weapon, so that should help
hot zephyr
~~Don't expect Summoner accs to stay in their current state for very long though ~~
worthy lintel
sand umbra
it was a rhetorical question meant to point out how
gusty geode
I mean
What else are you supposed to do when there's an imbalance like that
Just let the class as a whole get more bloated?
hot zephyr
because carnage op lol
crude geode
cuz they don't work on bosses
pine star
sand umbra
no it's because the crusher blades are boring as hell
the crit effects don't even work on bosses i.e. the main thing Calamity is balanced around
everything Carnage does works on bosses
and all of it works damn well
crude geode
I do think the reduction of contact damage is actually really interesting and could in itself actually help true melee but it also has to not be -10 contact damage on SCal which seems kind of unlikely.
hot zephyr
crimson crusher is super easy to get, high damage and free pre-hm ichor
gusty geode
That's the issue tho
If you leave an overabundance of weapons go unchecked and add more accessories
That just leads to the class as a whole being more bloated
A single class only needs so much content, so I think cutting some stuff out may be the only way to keep the numbers reasonable while restoring some kinda balance between weapons and accs
crude geode
tbh, I have a bias against melee bc the owner of the mod has a melee bias (and there's 6 auric tier melee weapons while rogue has 2 but that's a donor problem), but that doesn't mean you should just remove content. You balance out the amount of content in each class by adding more to other classes, balancing it out that way.
glass sentinel
its ok
worthy lintel
backlash will be immense
crude geode
^^
gusty geode
Yeah, but what I'm saying is
If you do that too much you end up with an excessive amount of items for the class
Which will lead to issues like some never being used or extra work to balance them all
glass sentinel
remove melee
cobalt pewter
worthy lintel
reset terraria
crude geode
Thanos snap melee.
sturdy geyser
sometimes weapons just need to go
sturdy geyser
not everything has the potential or is worth being reworked
glass sentinel
worthy lintel
remove the swords nobody use
cobalt pewter
Byeah, filler swords should be gone
It's like one of those hm ore swords problem, but magnified drastically
river glen
melee is broken early game czu amidias trident
worthy lintel
the auric senpai chan donor weapons were a mistake
river glen
and its literal smooth sailing
glass sentinel
speaking of tru meme, i like feedzuh's approved sugg
glass sentinel
yes
crude geode
Good luck getting Fab to get over his melee bias and thanos snap half of the useless, clutter melee weapons.
sand umbra
things like Dragon Powercry and Yharim's Spare Gamer Mouse were good
glass sentinel
sand umbra
those are good.
pine star
worthy lintel
sand umbra
there are some though that are just
why
cobalt pewter
Ataraxia for example
sand umbra
that's a dev weapon
cobalt pewter
Tbh attempting to make a true melee on auric tier is irrelevant now thanks to Murasama getting phat buffs left and right
worthy lintel
still
sand umbra
I'm referring to Ark of the Cosmos as a matter of fact
glass sentinel
keehaul is a 'why?' mage weapon
worthy lintel
bro don't touch my precious Ark
glass sentinel
ngl
worthy lintel
its precious
gusty geode
I've noticed this is somewhat of a common trend with Cal as a whole
It has all these problems that have gone unchecked for so long that they've become foundational to the mod
Not just with the pointless bloat
But it also applies to the balance in general
What with a bunch of enemies/bosses arbitrarily having weaknesses or resistances to specific weapons, overcomplicating things a ton
sand umbra
today on "Ark of the Cosmos is fucking stupid and here's why"
glass sentinel
die
crude geode
agree with thomas.
foggy plover
keelhaul is a donor item.
crude geode
it's not even close to a melee weapon rn
worthy lintel
now that pbg is fair, why tf ampoule still grants damage reduction
summer sentinel
Thomas, not ark of the cosmos again, pleading
glass sentinel
keelhaul is a donor item.
ik
worthy lintel
its a fucking trump card
crude geode
you spawn projectiles at your cursor.
cobalt pewter
Ark of the Cosmos is a mage weapon disguised as a melee weapon
glass sentinel
leave aotc alone
cobalt pewter
sand umbra
never
summer sentinel
AoTC single handedly gets removed by Thomas in the year 20
foggy plover
:mage1:
gusty geode
Wait is that how cosmos works
cobalt pewter
you spawn projectiles at your cursor.
Starfury:
sand umbra
not until at the very least its fucking stars on cursor get annihilated