ok so why doesn't demonshade give stealth
@serene fox probably cuz it was created before stealth and it has been untouched since?
#suggestions-discussion
tranquil perch
serene fox
tranquil perch
Is it? 
summer sentinel
I don’t know that but it seems like an archaic feature
earnest cape
it's at least 2 years old
dapper coral
she most likely will not, but to get the definite answer, it’d be to ask the donor directly.
donors/dedicatees also don't get to decide balance iirc
only function
summer sentinel
Oh I was mentioning the functionality change if applicable when it may get nerfed or may need a change, the balance is up to the devs yes, though currently SD is mostly fine
crystal iron
Did suggs get automatically sent to the Devs when they reached 200 or did they need to be sent manually (before the bot came back)
frail mantle
they always needed to be manually sent
crystal iron
Oh
frail mantle
suggestions get some tags when they reach Dev so it's easier to see what they're about, something which the bot is unable to do
crystal iron
Kk
idk if it's been done but if u see this can someone send my Sugg cuz it reached 200 but it doesn't look like it's been sent
frail mantle
patience
crystal iron
Ik 😔 😔
dapper coral
it'll happen when it happens
sleek hornet
Ranger:
actually nvm, w/o demonshade theyre still OP
hollow sierra
there aren't even any walls in the jungle that count as the biome
ashen warren
hey why not increase the block to biome distance by a little bit
gray nebula
auric furniture
made with darksun for a "post yharon feel"
whagt
... in case you're not aware, auric ore is also post yharon
dry lance
hardy dock
radiant meadow
- Scarlet Devil isn't a donor weapon. Phup was a dev, not a donor
- Demonshade armor doesn't have natural stealth because it's an all class armor and no all class armors have natural stealth.
hearty yew
imo the solution to flying carpet is make it craftable out of ancient cloth and nothing else
So it's actually very easy to get pre boss, where you would want it most.
brittle nexus
Ancient cloth is a hardmode material though, dropped by ghouls
Unless calamity changes something about that
cobalt pewter
Just make ancient cloth drop in phm ye
brittle nexus
from what 
Regardless, the sugg was just to make the recipe pre-hm, the devs can choose how to make it pre-hm
proper grail
Anybody for a Draedon Lab furniture set?
gray nebula
there aint
ripe owl
Right now getting the materials for the life upgrades is a grind
Me, who got most of dye materials for upgrades randomly: :kekW:
Yes, yes, laugh at me, Nitro users
Laugh
tawny garden
There are some lab doors and blocks and stuff ([[Laboratory Furniture]]), but not a proper set of furniture
red stormBOT
cobalt pewter
@hollow sierra I just realized. Wouldn't suggesting from only changelogs a don't?
Something something future content
tawny garden
Oh yeah
Good that you pointed it out
We have previously disallowed suggs that had referenced recent additions to #changelogs
robust shuttle
Is it possible to make the balancing of vanilla items a configurable option?
cobalt pewter
Not sure why it's needed, you might need a strong reason for that to happen
cobalt pewter
I'm not tryna be rude
Just sayin if you wanna sugg that, you might need quite a strong reason
Because I don't see the particular merit unless you're testing?
cobalt pewter
robust shuttle
Sorry.
cobalt pewter
It's cool
robust shuttle
Oh.
hot zephyr
Honestly Chrono I don't see the Draedon's heart buff passing because the whole point of changing Adrenaline's charge time is to nerf it in the endgame, accessories included.
summer sentinel
How many minion slots can just be determined via stat meter from goblin tinkerer while holding out a summon weapon
but adding a feature to update on the stat meter to show x slots used out of y total would be nice
river glen
obsidion armor in calamity gonna be broke
pine star
Yeah
Probably still going to be rogue though
Wulfrum/Victide/Aerospec/Statigel can hold the armor curve
river glen
oh shit
well
terraprisma
is basicly no hit empress
which will be more painful in death
robust shuttle
Terraprisma upgrade? 👀
river glen
but then ur gonna have good accessories
robust shuttle
Chill, I'm just playing.
violet minnow
terraprisma and whips are gonna be nerfed i bet
robust shuttle
Why is Terraprisma OP?
robust shuttle
D A M N .
violet minnow
and it looks cool
robust shuttle
Yeah, I really think Terraprisma is getting nerfed then.
violet minnow
it could be moved to a post ml drop like beat eol daytime after ml and she also gets a buff post ml
idk tho
radiant meadow
@pine star @river glen Obsidian armor will just lose all rogue bonuses in 1.4 port.
violet minnow
intresting
this changes things b/c summoner will now have another pre boss alt besides wulfram and victide
river glen
plus we have snow flux coat
violet minnow
i keep forgetting about that change
hollow shell
@crude geode In your SSV sugg, prolly should say "a different spell tome", cuz your wording makes it seem like SSV isn't one already
(also wow a lot of suggs recently it seems)
hollow shell
If he does mean that, then that could also be clearer
radiant meadow
especially if you read back to what Terry said as well
summer sentinel
Terry meant just a literal spell tome though, the basic book
hollow shell
It should be capitalized and he should prolly directly clarify he means the item sold by the Wizard
People in #suggestions-voting won't read back to see what Terry said.
hollow shell
Yes
sinful violet
If terry said it why does it even need to go through this phase
radiant meadow
I don't know
hollow shell
(did we not just have a convo about changing dedicated items in the dev server)
sinful violet
What
radiant meadow
changing mechanics is different from changing recipes
not to mention that was about a patron item
not a dev item
hollow shell
That's true
sinful violet
Yeah what
radiant meadow
Recipes can be changed in a flash
radiant meadow
unless I make a typo and Terraria takes a shit
sinful violet
It now takes THREE subsuming vortexes
radiant meadow
summer sentinel
and it takes the eternity too
summer sentinel
oh god oh no It becomes obtainable and unobtainable at the same time, a paradox!
tawny garden
no, it's just unobtainable then
Philo, ruining jokes since 2004
summer sentinel
don't you mean since 1004
sinful violet
Anyway, we can just skip suggestions phase here
tawny garden
don't you mean since 1004
I'm not THAT old
ancient ivy
Bruh just make a new last boss already, had supreme calamitas forever bruh gimme somethin new
violet dagger
draedon coming soontm
ancient ivy
Ooooo
frail mantle
_ _
summer sentinel
Statements like those don't really add anything Griffin to the conversation nor is it really that simple to add a new boss in at all
not to mention the long time it'd take to code and implement the boss, it'd need to get tested thoroughly to make sure it works proper in SP and MP, as long as checking weapons around that tier to make sure it doesn't unfairly and plausibly melt the boss. also actually fighting the boss is whole different topic to deem how fair or unfair it may be from those who are okay at the game to the ones who are a bit more novice
ancient ivy
K, im just sayin i quit because i completed it, and i bet a ton of other ppl feel the same way. If u want a lot of ppl to come back playin it then even if it is a lot of work i’d say it’d be worth it
frail mantle
see my previous message
summer sentinel
well, just note that the devs and testers also have some busy time tables of themselves and for the reasons I have mentioned above, these things take time to grow and marinate
(mostly all devs and testers have school just to also note)
ancient ivy
Yeah thats fine, just wondered if they’ve started workin on it?
tawny garden
it takes time
summer sentinel
progress is being made on it yes, as seen in changelogs
ancient ivy
Really looking forward to it
summer sentinel
we have no set release for when the boss will release but when it does, you can enjoy it tot he fullest extent 
ancient ivy
yeeeeee
sleek ore
the minion slot sugg makes a really good point
that is very irritating, espcially when you're working with minions that take up multiple slots
hollow shell
I mean, the Stat Meter does show total minion slots already
@proper grail You should probably mention that in your suggestion
Or maybe change the sugg to be that Stat Meter can display current minion slots taken up
summer sentinel
I mentioned that to them but I think they didn't see whoopsies
proper grail
Noted
hollow shell
Well, Piggy Pank
crude geode
Done, Rover
hollow shell
Thanks 👍
edgy pagoda
What do yall think of my suggestion
river glen
who gonna make the music
heady storm
It's a resugg, so automatically it's fine.
edgy pagoda
I don't know who's gonna make the music, but I still think it should be done
heady storm
Rover and Pinkie are the current composers.
edgy pagoda
Does the team accept outside songs if they're good enough?
Such as a fanmade theme for upcoming bosses?
heady storm
Wouldn't doubt it.
zenith hazel
no
heady storm
Oh, interesting.
zenith hazel
if we're going to need a theme for a specific boss, we're most likely gonna ask someone in our team to do it, or someone that we really trust
edgy pagoda
What if someone made a fanmade theme that you were itnerested in? Would you talk to them about it?
radiant meadow
Did someone make a fanmade theme?
Because if nobody did, I don't see the point in answering that question since it didn't happen.
edgy pagoda
Someone made a fanmade theme for Draedon a couple months ago which is really good in my opinion
ancient mirage
i think theres one for yharim too
zenith hazel
I somehow saw that coming
radiant meadow
Yeah, I know that, but it's likely we'll make our own.
zenith hazel
but we've already made plans for one of the people in our team to make it
edgy pagoda
Alright
violet dagger
if one was made it'd most likely be a remix
glad tundra
Hey i have a question so i made my post like a day ago about the sentinels and i havent gotten anything withen the last 24 hrs does that mean that it would be approved for voting?
Ping me your answer
hollow shell
Yeah if your suggestion doesn't have an ❗ reaction that means it's all good, and will be automatically approved by the bot @glad tundra
glad tundra
Thanks alot Rover
ashen warren
was my suggestion too big? :p
hollow shell
It is a bit large yeah
My go-to solution for big suggestions is to have a lot of line breaks (even better: double line breaks)
dividing it into sections
Succinct separated ideas
sand umbra
it is a bit large, and not just in the textwall sense
or at least from what I can tell. I mean I'd like to think I have a pretty good sense of when people are asking to overhaul a whole class
wait why'd you post it again
it was fine where it was
ashen warren
sorry 😦
sand umbra
(and my point about it being seemingly a fairly large-scale overhaul of Sharpshooter still stands. I could've sworn there's a Don't about exactly that)
ashen warren
I mean, it's not an overhaul of a whole class
sand umbra
then what is it?
ashen warren
it's like a DLC
you don't have to go through all the items
it's like the charger mechanic, it's not game changing but it adds to it
sand umbra
the charge mechanic was designed for Draedon's Arsenal weapons, and the Draedon's Arsenal weapons were designed around that mechanic
you can't just add a new major mechanic to old items and expect it to go well without considerable changes
ashen warren
no no, I don't mean to add it to current items
but when you add new ranged weapons, it would be interesting to see it on new ones
not necessarily current ones
so, for example, you could add an assault rifle that resembles a new one, and it sounds like a new one, and add the upgrading system to it
or add a handgun that resembles a real one, with the ugprade system
sand umbra
...I suppose my next question, then
is why Calamity specifically needs to or should do this
I'm not saying it for a fact doesn't, I just don't see the point
.
wait
wait a minute
hold that thought I need to check the Don'ts doc again
hollow shell
Aight yeah I think your whole bottom section is a bit too specific
And overall not that relevant to the topic of your sugg
sand umbra
okay I knew I wasn't insane
progression-based scaling is a Don't
ashen warren
AlchemistNPC has that
I thought of my suggestion as slightly different though
hollow shell
The suggestion is generally fine
More real gun representation, more grounded stuff for the ranged class and the reduction of fancy energy stuff
But you start to lose the plot a bit when you go into this new weird upgrading system
ashen warren
I tried to give some practical example, sorry
What I'm trying to say is, it's sad when I have to let go of a gun I like because the other new ones are too magical and sparky
and I want something brutal like a handgun
blasting "BOOOM"
and those guns are ALWAYS material, it's almost never worth to keep them as your main weapon for long
hollow shell
There are the limited-ammo classless guns
Which are super cathartic to shoot, and are pretty realistic
Magnum and Elephant Killer, etc
but of course, you cannot use them much.
hasty linden
I wish you had a way to make the ammo for the guns but expensively
Kinda useless whne you can’t get inf amount
sand umbra
I mean we all know that that's "the point of them"
but the limited ammunition combined with their limited per-fight use is exactly why nobody uses them
river glen
nobody uses hydra tbh
crude geode
I think the inherent problem is that the mechanics of Resident Evil that make these weapons useful don’t translate well into terraria.
ashen warren
I've never used the magnum, nor any of those limited ammo guns
and I'd like to use those weapons, but throughout the entire game
cobalt pewter
This seems like the same issue with the health bar
ashen warren
I don't like having to stick to a magical glittery gun
hollow shell
I guess it is kinda stupid that there are two limits on the RE guns
cobalt pewter
Porting something directly for reference without much regard on Terraria's design
hollow shell
If the ammo is limited then why not make em usable an unlimited amount of times per fight
It puts you in more of a resource hole
crude geode
Porting something directly for reference without much regard on its effect on Terraria
Literally the reason why reference for reference sake is bad.
hollow shell
Nah that was just because a lot of people thought reference for reference sake was a valid enough reason on its own :P
hot zephyr
It's kinda funky having limited use items in Terraria
cobalt pewter
Byeah MGR bar and RE guns need overhauls to somewhat fit Terraria's gameplay or just
Yeet them
hot zephyr
There's already a limit on how many times you can fire the damn thing, plus it sucks wasting crafting materials on a weapon that'll eventually run out of ammo for good
MGR bar looks disgusting; it does not fit the mod's style at all
if it didn't have valuable information I'd have disabled it a long time ago
cobalt pewter
Same, YABHB is just way better for Terraria
crude geode
Accidentally uses RE gun on a failed boss attempt
Welp just lost two incredibly valuable pieces of ammunition
it sucks.
hot zephyr
IMO? Just wrap the limited use weapons and ammo into one. Make them not consume ammo but retain their limit per shot in a boss fight and then make them unusable outside of boss fights/weaker
Or make their shots way weaker but give them a multiplier against bosses
crude geode
yeah big agree there.
hollow shell
hot zephyr
Well, you'd be stupid to use them on mobs but yeah
hollow shell
Well the point of them is resource management, that was Fab's whole motivation for adding them
So if one of the two limitations is getting removed, it would be the limited usages per fight, not the limited ammo.
hot zephyr
Terraria is not a survival horror game
crude geode
^
crude geode
Resource Management isn't a thing. Potions can be made infinitely, as can ammunition for ranger.
hot zephyr
You can have a reference to RE without ripping their game mechanics
hollow shell
We just deal I guess, or have Fab be sad
cobalt pewter
References are fine if it can be reasonably fit into Terraria
hot zephyr
Using the Gungeon guitar doesn't give me a dodge roll, y'know?
cobalt pewter
Stellar Knives are a decent example
hot zephyr
Stellar Knives does the reference weapon well, it seems like 80% of all the reference weapons in the mod are super in your face
cobalt pewter
The mechanic works without directly ripping off source material (timestop)
radiant meadow
wait fuck
crude geode
Gravistar Sabaton doesn't inherit any components/mechanics of Risk of Rain.
radiant meadow
I forgot to say that I already did the spell tome thing
hot zephyr
Ben no longer gooderator?
cobalt pewter
Ben no longer gooderator :fear:
sturdy geyser
😔
crude geode
It's ok ben, just slap a flag on it.
radiant meadow
I guess I can just flag it now.
crude geode
ye
cobalt pewter
hot zephyr
~~no more crafting SSV four times 
~~
radiant meadow
(I'm allowed to request a silent stepdown)
hollow shell
(Aight, that is fair)
sturdy geyser
wegud
cobalt pewter
Mass crafting SSV is mega brunge
hot zephyr
It was nice having you as a gooderator, Ben
cobalt pewter
crude geode
byeah RE guns don't have to completely incorporate the mechanics of RE.
hot zephyr
topic
sand umbra
you know what
hot zephyr
RE guns could also recharge their ammo over a longer period of time
sand umbra
when was the last time someone suggested changing the RE guns
crude geode
It just doesn't make sense for them to, since Terraria and RE are vastly different games.
hot zephyr
as it stands there's very little reason to waste time crafting weapons that'll become useless once their ammo is gone
sand umbra
byeah
hot zephyr
(has anyone actually enjoyed the RE guns?)
sand umbra
(I don't think so)
hot zephyr
(I've never seen anyone actually use them)
sand umbra
((in fact I don't think anyone ever uses them))
ashen warren
all I'm asking is, please add more of a "marksman" vibe to Ranged instead of just combining mage weapons with guns
hollow shell
I can't tell when the last time an RE gun sugg has been made
hot zephyr
Not nearly enough apparently
hollow shell
It doesn't seem very frequent
sand umbra
well that's a good sign
hollow shell
(the problem is they don't have a very well known collective term)
hot zephyr
feel free to rip any ideas for a RE gun rework
hollow shell
(to Discord search with)
hot zephyr
It's a sign we should make a sugg
cobalt pewter
I don't see anything about RE guns throughout oct and sep
hot zephyr
If anyone wants to work on one with me just ask
hollow shell
I suppose so.
cobalt pewter
Also should this sugg be flagged since Coin of Deceit got a rework?
#suggestions-voting message
hot zephyr
Rover we're gonna replace the suggbot with a filing cabinet for all suggestions
hollow shell
Just remove the whole bottom section of your suggestion @ashen warren, or summarize it into like one sentence
as-is you put too much focus on a thing that's not gonna happen and is pretty tangential to your topic
sand umbra
I'm already writing a sugg on this and nobody's gonna stop me
...just one thing
ashen warren
is the upgrade thingy bad? @hollow shell
hot zephyr
Write that shiiiiit Thomas
crude geode
Speaking of things people don't use, classless weapons like Golden Gun 
rebrand them as summoner weapons.
sand umbra
do we have an agreement on what the best approach for these guns would be for the purposes of this sugg
hot zephyr
Lucoli, your sugg is mega wall of text, try to thin it out
hollow shell
And does not have to do with making the guns more realistic
ashen warren
okay I'll edit that
cobalt pewter
do we have an agreement on what the best approach for these guns would be for the purposes of this sugg
Remind me what you had in mind
I was doing smth else
hot zephyr
I'd say for RE guns
hollow shell
I'll 🛠️ the Coin of Deceit sugg
hollow sierra
sorry i fell asleep after not getting any replies for an hour 
cobalt pewter
hollow shell
Unless it's in changelog
cobalt pewter
It's in changelogs
hot zephyr
for the RE guns:
- Make them not consume ammo
- Reduce their damage significantly
- Give them a pretty big damage multiplier against bosses
- Limit their uses during boss fights
hollow sierra
did read chat though
hollow shell
or, confirmed programmed
which, I dunno if it is
Ah I see yeah it's in changelogs
I'll flag it then
sand umbra
hmmm
well, I can't quite be that specific, at least not on the headline
hot zephyr
God removing the RE ammo would reduce ammo bloat in the mod so much
sand umbra
...can I?
foggy plover
ye its in (coin of deceit)
sand umbra
...no, I don't think I could, it still skirts the specificity rule despite being an existing item set
mmmm
hot zephyr
getting RE ammo from boss kills reminds me of reversity coins from alchfull
instant trash
cobalt pewter
lmao yes
sand umbra
okay I know I make it a point to follow the Don'ts like a saint for some reason but god do I hate them sometimes
hot zephyr
I did
hollow shell
What are you planning to write, Thomas
cobalt pewter
Spill the beans here smh
hot zephyr
You've got us half way there, finish the job
sand umbra
basically I wanna write a sugg that focuses on making the RE guns actually consistently usable and not like Purified Jam where you're so scared of fucking up the one chance you have with it that you just sorta never use it
hot zephyr
Purified Jam needs a rework as well but there's already a bunch of suggs made for that
Or just flat out remove it lmao
ashen warren
ok I cut my message in half
sand umbra
now, I can't get very specific at all because it's a suggestion, so I was just gonna go with no ammo consumption (and the subsequent removal of the munitions themselves)
hot zephyr
Keep in mind they're also usable outside of bosses (lmao) so if you remove ammo they could potentially be super strong
sand umbra
and here's where we find the problem
ashen warren
@sand umbra are you a dev
hot zephyr
No
sand umbra
I can't specify more than like one change
but I have to in order to--
hot zephyr
Just do it
hot zephyr
The "Dont's" are just a loose guidelines anyways
He's a dev... just not for this mod lol
sand umbra
yeah I'm not a Calamity dev
I'm a mod dev, but not a Calamity dev
that is. a very important distinction to make
hot zephyr
I'd say Thomas just post the full changes
If Rover or whoever gets mad we can change it later
ashen warren
having different ammo is interesting, I wish I could be able to decide between a few at different momments
after you get past the point where Chlorophite bullets do the most damage there's no big doubt as to which one to choose
hot zephyr
Since you need the full context for the rework anyways
ashen warren
more diversity is interesting
sand umbra
...Ian, I don't think you understand
the Don'ts are basically suggestion rules
hot zephyr
I wish there was a hotkey to switch ammo types
I know they're the suggestion rules; but you can't understand without the full context
sand umbra
I'm literally legally obligated to go the piecemeal route but if I do that it misses the point
there is no right answer here
ashen warren
I wish there was a hotkey to switch ammo types
@hot zephyr I think there's a Thorium item? that lets you do that when you press UP
hot zephyr
"legally obligated" :p
If you do it piecemeal nobody will understand and such, nobody will star it
sand umbra
you know what, fuck it
I've been a good boy for over a year
hot zephyr
Your best odds are to just post it full
cobalt pewter
Yes, rover wil bonk you if you violated a don't
sand umbra
people can handle a little specification
cobalt pewter
Guaranteed
hot zephyr
90% of the suggestors here don't even read the Dont's, you're already miles ahead of em lol
I've slogged through so much garbage in #suggestions-posting, your sugg will be fine
hollow sierra
The "Dont's" are just a loose guidelines anyways
That's why i'm keeping my sugg up, not adjusting draedon's heart along with the other changes seems more like an oversight than anything else and i wanna make sure it at least gets acknowledged and potentially pushed in the same update, and not the update after which it would if i didn't "break" the rules
radiant meadow
The worst thing that happens is that you're told to tone it down a little.
hot zephyr
Frankly the biggest thing standing in the way of your sugg isn't the stars, Rover or anything, it's Fabsol orbital striking the idea down
tbh Golden Gun could be just flat out removed from the mod
radiant meadow
golden gun is a hardmode item
radiant meadow
marked magnum is prehardmode
crude geode
yeah? it's made with ichor.
hollow shell
This suggestion looks good, Cursed
hot zephyr
Once 1.4 is out, Golden Gun could be deleted from the mod without any big losses
cobalt pewter
^
hot zephyr
No need to change it now when the whip changes will make it irrelevant
cobalt pewter
Thanks to flasks affecting whips
hollow shell
(it'd also open the opportunity for making them a bit more interesting.
Instead of shooting a gun, you summon a little guy that shoots the gun 
)
sand umbra
whip flask hours
hot zephyr
caustic staff?
hollow shell
((or reworked entirely to be an Ichor monster that vomits on people, either or))
hot zephyr
aestheticus is one of the worst donor weapons in the game; it's hot garbage on everything
hollow sierra
exo tier whip 
cobalt pewter
To be fair, Marked Magnum and Lunic Eye are the only ways player can get an easy Marked aside from prolly specific weapons
glass sentinel
Is stained with the blood and hair from.... previous contacts
crude geode
Yeah but like. does everyone besides summoner really need that?
glass sentinel
i mean usually when you arent even mage you tend to use everglade/pee pee
sand umbra
aaaaaaand here we go
hot zephyr
Does Marked even need to exist as a player debuff?
glass sentinel
it reduces DR
crude geode
Marked really doesn't need to exist tbh.
hot zephyr
it's just bloat
glass sentinel
its been half deleted
crude geode
ye
hot zephyr
just finish it off
glass sentinel
🔪
sand umbra
yeah enemies can't apply Marked anymore
sand umbra
you could probably nuke the Marked Magnum while you're at it, if I'm being completely honest
hot zephyr
tbh I feel like the devs should consider deleting things more often, the mod is packed to the brim with content and a lot is pretty irrelevant anyways
crude geode
rework, don't delete is the name of the game.
hot zephyr
we've hit choice paralysis levels of content; where there's like 12 weapons for each class for each tier
glass sentinel
give a marked flask to melee
glad tundra
When your post that you thought was really good and reasonable legit only gets 23 votes
sand umbra
unfortunately, that's a bad motto to have for a mod
foggy plover
deleting things
hot zephyr
It happens to everyone, Midnight
glass sentinel
make marked magnum a proper ranged wep
foggy plover
omegalul
hollow sierra
why is auralis a ranged weapon
crude geode
not that I personally agree with the motto of "rework, don't delete" I'm just pointing out that it's Fabsol's ideal.
sand umbra
well you can't stick with that forever
crude geode
that is true.
sand umbra
and you certainly can't stick with it for the 1.4 jump
crude geode
points to the 5 swords for literally every tier
sand umbra
a decent amount of content has been made irrelevant or redundant by 1.4 changes
hot zephyr
if the devs "rework, don't delete" for everything we're going to end up with like 20 weapons per class per tier in a year or so
sand umbra
such as the introduction of whips, which act as a support weapon for summoners
and while I don't agree with whips being summon weapons, it is important to make note of the fact that they are
radiant meadow
If it makes you feel better, frigid bulwark is getting the boot during the port
sand umbra
pog
hot zephyr
My biggest fear with Calamity is that they'll try and keep everything for 1.4, even the things made irrelevant by 1.4 and just create a really messy time
sand umbra
Frigid Bulwark was kinda cringe anyway
hollow sierra
F frigid bulwark and angel treads
radiant meadow
not that anyone used frigid bulwark in the first place
sand umbra
byeah does anyone use it to begin with
radiant meadow
Angel Treads are staying
sand umbra
I'd wager Angel Treads are staying as an upgrade to Terrasparks
hot zephyr
People use Frigid Bulwark... for crafting Rampart of Deities
hollow sierra
i assume they're just gonna be terraspark + harpy ring?
sand umbra
since they're, y'know
actually tier-locked
radiant meadow
yeah, a terraspark upgrade
because angel treads run faster and boost wing flight time (more)
so it's still a distinct upgrade
hollow sierra
you also need to integrate obsidian rose into all the modded boots
hot zephyr
Terraspark is interesting because it's pre-boss tier yet every upgrade past Lightning only really gives benefits to exploration and not mobility
hollow sierra
since vanilla did that
cobalt pewter
If it makes you feel better, frigid bulwark is getting the boot during the port
Would Frozen Shield get the bonus DR at ≤15% HP like what Frigid Bulwark is atm?
hot zephyr
fuck the obsidian rose change, I can never get them to drop and get screwed out of Terraspark
cobalt pewter
Or would that concept just be yeeted
hot zephyr
byeah, topic
hollow sierra
obsidian roses are easy, its the lava charm that's torture
radiant meadow
maybe
hot zephyr
Although hearing about 1.5's power scaling changes I'm not too afraid since the devs are already changing a lot of content
glad tundra
Cant you get obsidian roses from crafting tho?
hot zephyr
Not in Vanilla, no
crude geode
(we should get back to not Journey's End)
glad tundra
(i agree)
hot zephyr
(Yep)
glad tundra
(yes)
hot zephyr
RE guns: is there anything else you'd suggest?
crude geode
Some expert mode accessories are kinda cringe tbfh.
hot zephyr
Like?
radiant meadow
Gehenna needs a rework really badly.
hot zephyr
Gehenna could just be deleted tbh
crude geode
Rotten Brain.
radiant meadow
like it's just legitimately bad
hot zephyr
It doesn't need to exist
sand umbra
which one is Gehenna again
glad tundra
Reworked not really deleted
radiant meadow
Brimmy still needs an expert drop
glass sentinel
brimmy
cobalt pewter
Nebulous Core is just Spore Sac with discount Godslayer rez
sand umbra
oh yeah Brimbo expert
hot zephyr
true true
hot zephyr
Rotten Brain is terrible
crude geode
I do think a lot of expert mode accessories need to be looked at closer, because a generous amount of them are just...awful.
hot zephyr
tfw you use an acc slot for a debuff item
glad tundra
The fact that its post hm is stupid
sand umbra
just give it the Brain of Confusion buff
hot zephyr
Amidias Pendant is pretty
sand umbra
no way that can go wrong
glad tundra
It adds like 15 percent more dmg and shadrain on hit
sand umbra
isn't Pendant dropped in all difficulties now
hollow sierra
What's terrible is you can't combine the tooth and scarf and the brains until you get a mythril anvil
radiant meadow
On hotkey, Gehenna now allows you to fire a brimstone laser from your eyes
hot zephyr
Nope
hollow sierra
should really be moved to the tinker table
hot zephyr
Rev+
sand umbra
please yes
crude geode
You ever use Leviathan Ambergis? Or know it exists?
glad tundra
Ik
cobalt pewter
On hotkey, Gehenna now allows you to fire a brimstone laser from your eyes
pogu
sand umbra
...I just checked
glass sentinel
same as blazing core
sand umbra
yeah Pendant drops in all difficulties now
hot zephyr
Is that in #changelogs ?
crude geode
weird
hot zephyr
wiki needs update
radiant meadow
I think I did that at some point
hot zephyr
glad tundra
Giant clam mode
cobalt pewter
crude geode
hey can the amalgam be reworked to not be like. five accessories smashed into one thing.
radiant meadow
but yeah, the only req is that DS be defeated for the pendant to drop
sand umbra
the Amalgam got reworked I thought
like very recently
also that's kinda the point--
crude geode
eh true.
glad tundra
Whats the point of amidas pendant?
radiant meadow
It's called an Amalgam for a reason
hot zephyr
There is none Midnight lol
cobalt pewter
Amalgam's rework is moving the Ambergris trail to the Clump instead of on the player
hot zephyr
it's a worse rusty locket
glad tundra
Ah
sand umbra
the point of Amidias' Pendant is why the fuck is it not sold, or dropped, by Amidias
crude geode
I'm just looking at the expert mode accessories page and seeing all the uselessness
hot zephyr
@sand umbra It's Amidias' garbage, he left it in the clam for a reason
glad tundra
HAHAHA
sand umbra
bruhhhh
hot zephyr
It is an F tier accessory at best; it has no actual useful atributes
At least you can use Rusty Locket on DS
crude geode
Leviathan Ambergris is cringe tbh. Any water accessories are just really cringe.
cobalt pewter
Oh yeah Astral Bulwark
sand umbra
why are you doing EoC and Acid Rain before DS
hot zephyr
@crude geode Leave my Deep Diver alone you monster
glad tundra
Why did they make death king slime easyier?
glad tundra
It was so much more harder than now
cobalt pewter
Its astral immune is invalidated by Ursa Sergeant 
glass sentinel
they buffed it
cobalt pewter
Which can be gotten in early HM
sand umbra
...wait
glass sentinel
crown jewel shoots 3 things now
sand umbra
wait I'm stupid
radiant meadow
I always forget that Ursa Sergeant exists and that I made it.
cobalt pewter
smh ben
hot zephyr
Alright let's be honest: Who has actually used Abyssal/Luminous amulet?
glass sentinel
lmao
sand umbra
I forgot Rusty Chests are unlocked by default fuck
alright well now that I've made myself look retarded
crude geode
Ursa Sergeant should really not give immunity to Astral Infection tbhj
cobalt pewter
Make astral infection heal ya while using Astral Bulwark because yes
glad tundra
Alright let's be honest: Who has actually used Abyssal/Luminous amulet?
@hot zephyr never heard of it
hot zephyr
Isn't it spelled Luminous
sand umbra
I used Lumenous
glass sentinel
pretty bad
sand umbra
...for the light and only for the light
the-
the other effects literally do not matter
hot zephyr
haha shine potion go brrrr
sand umbra
it's just the light
crude geode
Here's probably the worst offender of expert mode accessories rn.
glad tundra
Shine go brr yes
crude geode
Toxic Heart.
glad tundra
Which does?
crude geode
who cares, upgrade it to plague hive.
sand umbra
ah yes, Toxic Heart
the acc which you use like 2 seconds later to make Plague Hive
hot zephyr
Even real-er shit here; how many of ya'll have used the waifu ingredients outside of the HoE?
crude geode
me.
glad tundra
!wiki Toxic heart
red stormBOT
sand umbra
I...think I used Chaos Stone for a nohit once?
crude geode
Brimmy Waifu is p good for a magic slot filler.
cobalt pewter
ah yes
hot zephyr
Let me rephrase
cobalt pewter
Toxic Heart
sand umbra
that was a time in my life that occurred
glad tundra
Oh its used for ze give plauge pack thing
hot zephyr
How many of ya'll have used the waifu ingredients outside of HoE for any other reason than to gawk at the waifus?
sand umbra
Chaos Stone doesn't summon tits
ancient crow
aero stone is a great early game acc
sand umbra
it just makes your magic strong as fuck
hot zephyr
scribbles "rework chaos stone"
sand umbra
bitch
cobalt pewter
How many of ya'll have used the waifu ingredients outside of HoE for any other reason than to gawk at the waifus?
fuck I got caught
crude geode
Me, bc Brimmy Waifu was nice for magic damage and so I don't have to pay attention to slimes when building arenas.
hot zephyr
Yeah but has... anyone actually used Cryo Stone?
ancient crow
what does cryo stone even do
cobalt pewter
The stones and Elemental summons do need reworks as well
hot zephyr
glass sentinel
HoE farming
crude geode
Cryo stone needs a rework indeed. So does the plague one.
ancient crow
oh it's literally just damage and dr
sand umbra
...I feel like I've got a long list of shit to suggest ahead of me
maybe
glad tundra
They could rework that it legit doesnt do anything
ancient crow
i thought it at least had something to do with ice
hot zephyr
Chaos Stone also kinda sucks
sand umbra
Chaos Stone is god what are you smoking
glass sentinel
they all suck alone
sand umbra
it's like the only good statstick of the group
hot zephyr
slightly more mana?
ancient crow
aero stone is good early game when you have lots of acc slots
crude geode
5% reduced mana usage is...ok.
sand umbra
...oh wait, I looked at it again
hot zephyr
You sure you're not confusing it with Rose Stone?
sand umbra
I'm getting it confused with Butterfly Wings
hot zephyr
crude geode
a stone with wings
sand umbra
which legit give a better bonus
glass sentinel
the only reason rose stone is good is bc you get waifu
sand umbra
hot zephyr
thique
crude geode
I enjoy not having to deal with slimes when building arenas, which means Rose Stone is nice (and summoner but you're playing summoner )
glass sentinel
horn begone
crude geode
bc kelvin catalyst funny.
radiant meadow
donor item, my good sire
hot zephyr
has Frozen Key always been in the Catalyst recipe?
radiant meadow
donor item
crude geode
^
hot zephyr
donors are dumb
radiant meadow
Frozen Key was added when souls of might were removed from Cryogen
foggy plover
money talks
cobalt pewter
Money talks indeed
hot zephyr
Let us make suggs on donor gear so we can rework the terrible design choices of donors
Kelvin Catalyst ruined it for everyone
crude geode
you can
hot zephyr
It's time to fix some atrocities
cobalt pewter
You're not inherently prohibited to do so
glad tundra
I remeber the time me and my frienddestroyed and we somehow killed polterghast
radiant meadow
Frozen Key is a 20% drop from Cryo so you're more likely to be grinding for Cryo Stone anyways
crude geode
you just have to face donors to do so.
cobalt pewter
But you'll still need approval from the donors
hot zephyr
You made me grind out a mediocre rogue weapon, time to suffer
cobalt pewter
the balance is up to the devs, soooooo
summer sentinel
what happened here in suggs, I come here and 600 mesages
cobalt pewter
a lot
crude geode
Can we talk about Yanmei's knife able to be used against...like two bosses.
hot zephyr
we started trashing terrible accessories
Yamei's Knife went from cool to garbage in like... two patches
summer sentinel
well I might as well make a comment though on the actual suggs
cobalt pewter
Doesn't Yanmei give buff to the player on hit regardless of immune NPCs?
crude geode
good luck hitting with it.
summer sentinel
rebranding the classless weapons I can see happening although they are meant for any class, not just summoner. It's essentially free ichor for example with golden gun so rebranding isn't entirely justified but I can see it still being warranted perhaps
cobalt pewter
And I'd say it's, roughly a fine range for when you can get it
hot zephyr
give the golden gun the golden garbage can treatment
sand umbra
a whip with an Ichor flask is free ichor in 1.4
summer sentinel
changing RE guns I'm fine with, because to be fair their use case is so minimal and it being bounded by ammo is just sort of...yeah
hot zephyr
Soon™️
summer sentinel
It makes them even less usable and very niche to the point nearly everyone forget sthem unless they knowingly know it's classless damage that can be used
sand umbra
I swear to god
summer sentinel
allowing the mostly-arbitrary ammunition this is true though Thomas I fully agree with this because it is just, yeah
hot zephyr
1.4 changes should be considered just to help make the transition easier, the only caveat being they need to be changes to existing content and not future content
summer sentinel
I mean granted most of the time I just end up throwing magnum rounds but that might be just me
hot zephyr
magnum rounds? more like magnum silver coins
hot zephyr
Never used em
summer sentinel
same with shotgun shells and the other one I forgot
sand umbra
that's probably because you know the gun is useless if you go through its rounds and useless if you fail the fight where you shoot it
hot zephyr
it's Purified Jam 2
sand umbra
the RE guns have so many limitations on them that their use case is next to none
sand umbra
Jam is. a different beast which I'll get to suggestion-wise at another time
cobalt pewter
Actually I might do that on my true melee Yharon later
sleek hornet
except at least Jam is useful on securing a Yharon victory
true meleeing yharon
hot zephyr
- literally it's useless after you've used the ammo
cobalt pewter
I do need some emergency power when he's at his last subphase
hot zephyr
Jam could just get the delet tbh
It's only here because of nostalgia
It's from a bygone era where DoG was destroyer reskin
cobalt pewter
The benefit of being a relatively new participant of the mod is that you're not affected by nostalgia at all
hot zephyr
I've been here for a few years and there's a fair bit of nostalgia
Fuck stress tho
no nostalgia for that
radiant meadow
You know it's technically not an instant upgrade, right?
radiant meadow
I know people consider cultist to be easy as fuck
but it's not an instant upgrade
radiant meadow
That being said, Toxic Heart is deserving of a rework
sand umbra
Plague Hive isn't an immediate upgrade by definition
crude geode
LC is the hype man for moon lord 
sand umbra
but it is close enough to its highest items (and separated by such a relatively squishy boss) that you can consider it one in the grand scheme of things
or, more accurately, it is way too close to its constituent parts
specifically Toxic Heart and Alch Flask
fossil finch
I mean thats kinda like saying late hardmode HotE components are an insta upgrade just cuz nobody uses them and they are like 2 or 3 bossrs appart from upgrading
radiant meadow
well, moving plague hive will make it useless because The Swarmer is the weapon that loves it the most
summer sentinel
^that
sand umbra
byeah that's the problem
radiant meadow
delete plague hive
sand umbra
Plague Hive itself is in a really, really bad position
radiant meadow
problems solved
sand umbra
there's like one weapon that actually gives it its use case
fossil finch
do people use it outside the funny swarmer experience?
foggy plover
plague hive post deus for no reason
sand umbra
two if you actually use Plague Keeper for some ungodly reason
radiant meadow
add astral bars to the recipe 
cobalt pewter
Plague Keeper 2 ig
radiant meadow
oh yeah
radiant meadow
I forgot about Plague Keeper
which I think is mediocre in normal but goes ham with plague hive
sand umbra
that's probably because nobody really uses it, or at least I haven't heard it hyped up enough to notice anyone using it
foggy plover
its not worth using atm I think
sand umbra
I think part of that can be owed to the highly overrated weapon on the same tier
cobalt pewter
imo just spread plague throughout HM, then you can start redistribute accs to build up to Plague Hive
I think part of that can be owed to the highly overrated weapon on the same tier
Or the fact that it's Calamity's #879478 broadsword
summer sentinel
plague keeper's dps and usage case isn't the best afaik and people just forget about it
ok Ben we also can't just delete an accessory like that
radiant meadow
so it was nerfed a little much at one point maybe
it used to be like
god weapon
sand umbra
I-
I mean you can
cobalt pewter
Plague GOD
sand umbra
it might not be the best course of action considering the plague itself is in a really fucking awkward spot right now but you can do it
radiant meadow
like last time I tested providence melee, the only thing that was faster was Galactus Blade
crude geode
All bosses need an expert mode drop,, and it's still really bad.
cobalt pewter
As I said, spread plague throughout HM
summer sentinel
Galactus blade is good now on that note
cobalt pewter
radiant meadow
and maybe ele lance
foggy plover
galactus is also post provi now
summer sentinel
I forget that exists
sand umbra
elementalance
moment
cobalt pewter
Spamlance momentum
summer sentinel
I wouldn't forget elemental lance if there was an auric spear iirc but someone doesn't want one 
sand umbra
"projectile limit doesn't exist" lance
unreal viper
no auric spear 
summer sentinel
embrace the subclass
unreal viper
reject broadswords
sand umbra
also I will support Auric spear
cobalt pewter
"fuck projectile limits, my homies hate projectile limits" spear
sand umbra
if
foggy plover
reject more auric melee shit
summer sentinel
we have an auric yoyo but no auric lance, what an outrage. You need yoyo bag for oracle but do you need a yoyo bag for auric spear? no. Case won
sand umbra
also maybe make Auric gear not just a clusterfuck of crafting trees please--
foggy plover
auric saros upgrade, auric eclipse fall upgrade
unreal viper
i believe auric summons are in the wroks
summer sentinel
eclipse fall upgrade would be good yeah
sand umbra
Eclipse's Fall upgrade would be good except that's kinda
soon
cobalt pewter
auric saros upgrade, auric eclipse fall upgrade
auric shattered sun upgrade could work too byech
sand umbra
given it's one tier after
unreal viper
Yeah, way too soon.
radiant meadow
Eclipse's Fall is also dedicated item btw
sand umbra
Auric Shattered Sun upgrade
foggy plover
shattered sun upgrade most likely would have shit for stealth tho like the rest of them
sand umbra
Showstopper in real?
radiant meadow
yes
summer sentinel
all we need to do is just add more auric and that will fix our problems. Trust me I'm a calamity developer not true at all
radiant meadow
It's Poss' DI item
foggy plover
OH ITS PINKIES
summer sentinel
it's dedicated to Pinkie
foggy plover
god
cobalt pewter
shattered sun upgrade most likely would have shit for stealth tho like the rest of them
smh, this is why all Crystalline line should have their stealth reworked
sand umbra
all we need to do is remove the entire Ark line and that will fix our problems.
foggy plover
any rogue weapon with more than like
summer sentinel
No Thomas, bad sugg
summer sentinel
Ark gets removed and I remove you
cobalt pewter
has a bad stealth strike
Facts
unreal viper
You can't remove thomas.
summer sentinel
moment
unreal viper
What does the ark line do?
foggy plover
ark isnt even that good
unreal viper
Isn't it like homing or something
sand umbra
Ark line has the function of being dumb and overrated and stupid and overrated
crude geode
Fab, readying to orbital strike Thomas 
summer sentinel
Ambergis I forget even exists and I think most people agree with that
radiant meadow
I like ark of the cosmos tbh
foggy plover
cosmos is nice, the rest of them are cool but overrated
biome blades are
biome blade.
cobalt pewter
@foggy plover actually now that you mentioned it, is there anything in cbt regarding rebalancing stealth of weapons with low use time?
sand umbra
bruh Cosmos is literally the dumbest of all of them 
foggy plover
I mean
summer sentinel
me too Ben. as for Ambergis, it does need a rework because right now, you just don't use it nor do you even know it's existence since you probably just sell it
foggy plover
not really
summer sentinel
bio blade preHM is a good change though
sand umbra
you get projectiles on your cursor for picking the weapon, only Oracle gets that shit otherwise
radiant meadow
so maybe I'm a little dumb and I like dumb things :)
summer sentinel
TBB is okay. OBB is good. galaxia is decent afaik
cobalt pewter
you get projectiles on your cursor for picking the weapon, only Oracle gets that shit otherwise
Melee™ momentum
summer sentinel
and then ark of cosmos is just ark
sand umbra
Biome Blade line would be fine if it actually like
sturdy geyser
😔
cobalt pewter
All melees should
sand umbra
...that should be something I suggest soonish
crude geode
“Melee is Not Melee”
-Everyone in #suggestions-discussion ever
crude geode
Same
sand umbra
also Cursed this is gonna sound really dumb but can you like condense your suggs a little bit so that either of them and my own actually have a chance of getting stars thanks
foggy plover
who the fuck wants to use true melee for every single boss
cobalt pewter
who the fuck wants to use true melee for every single boss
uh
foggy plover
dont say kirn
summer sentinel
careful Chill, you might awaken the lurkers
foggy plover
.
summer sentinel
I don't ever use true melee and the one time I did do true melee was me using earth and murasama on BR
crude geode
also Cursed this is gonna sound really dumb but can you like condense your suggs a little bit so that either of them and my own actually have a chance of getting stars thanks
I hate sand’s already on it
unreal viper
fossil finch
Then there's also the problem you can't make melee real melee because nobody would want to play that
It would make people reject melee, fearing it may be too complicated or hardly viable if you aren't on a extremely specific build
sand umbra
I'm just gonna accept that I'll have to repost it in a week
cobalt pewter
Brunge
sturdy geyser
cursed and thomas and sand should have a rap battle to decide who gets to control suggestions
summer sentinel
Suggestions rap battle sounds terrible
sand umbra
and then the repost immediately gets shot down because it's specific and being specific is illegal even though in this case it's necessary to make a point
cobalt pewter
cursed and thomas and sand should have a rap battle to decide who gets to control suggestions
And we gotta just watch on the sidelines
sturdy geyser
amazing, you mean
cobalt pewter
🍿
crude geode
cringe
summer sentinel
"hey hey yo my name is thomas I'm here to drop a suggest on the blade, you know what I mean? it's all hand made"
unreal viper
let's combine our forces instead
summer sentinel
ok forget I said anything
cobalt pewter
unreal viper
summer sentinel
No, but keep suggestions things 
cobalt pewter
True melee only works, not even half bad, but certain bosses are like
Mega cbt with it
Like brimmy
fossil finch
Make every boss have fighter ai if holding a true melee weapon
cobalt pewter
ashen warren
good idea
sand umbra
listen up, fools, I don't have the time
I'll tell you straight, Lauren, you're a terrible rhyme
now unless y'all got a good sugg to be bakin'
talk about Sand's sugg, or like a tree get makin'
ashen warren
wait no thats too hard give them worm ai
unreal viper
make true melee do 1000000000 damage and dps and bosses slow by 10000000% if you'rer holding a true melee weapon
But in all seriosuness, boss AI changes are the key to true melee viability imo.
summer sentinel
Where's the warn button again
crude geode
All suggestions' reasoning must be in rap format or else they're exclaimed.
sand umbra
cobalt pewter
This is like
cobalt pewter
The heaviest derail in this channel I've seen in a while
unreal viper
And use facetank/melt strats.
sand umbra
anywho, funny rap over, back on topic nerds
crude geode
yes
sand umbra
Cryo Stone
moment
unreal viper
yes
crude geode
Should we just make a google doc of bad accessories that need reworks?
and put that in a sugg
unreal viper
Yeah.
sand umbra
also talk about Cursed's suggs I guess
and help me get him to make them not take up like half a screen 
unreal viper
Let's do it.