#suggestions-discussion
hot zephyr
ashen lark
Like she quickly demolishes your health
serene fox
jesus christ storm
hot zephyr
How in the goddamned are you getting hit for 300 by Providence in normal
ashen lark
Harder than dog in some cases
golden narwhal
This is physically impossible
ashen lark
How in the goddamned are you getting hit for 300 by Providence in normal
@hot zephyr like 300/sec
serene fox
are you you're not fighting nighttime variant?
violet dagger
ech
hot zephyr
Do you have any recorded footage of you fighting Providence/DoG in Normal that you can use as an example?
hot zephyr
Because tbh it just kinda sounds like you're pulling numbers out of thin air because you had a tougher time dodging Providence compared to DoG
cobalt pewter
providence doing 300 damage doesn't sound
Night?
serene fox
where is rover when you need him 
cobalt pewter
@grim tusk don't make your suggs segmented ig
Just put the main points in the channel, and put the numbers in a doc
heady storm
Yeah just link a document.
hot zephyr
Also Storm can you work on your sugg formatting to make it easier to read
grim tusk
oh ok
hot zephyr
Basically what Feed/Chetto said
grim tusk
yea character limit was hard to deal with
cobalt pewter
Since this is more of a technical stuff, imo the details would be fine to put into docs
Just make sure you get the point across when posting the sugg without relying on the doc
foggy plover
I really
dont get what people do to get such shitty times with dazzling stabber
its always fine when its tested
serene fox
I get shitty times with dazzling stabber
foggy plover
ashen lark
No I'm showing how bad dog is on those modes
dull comet
ah
ashen lark
Which mode?
ashen lark
I feel expert may be about the same cuz expert slot
ashen lark
fabsol do be late af on halloween
cobalt pewter
Timezones.
zenith hazel
why is this in suggs channel
serene fox
I have no idea
zenith hazel
if you're not going to talk about suggs then move, thanks
zenith hazel
and don't plug your stream without permission either
ashen lark
and don't plug your stream without permission either
@zenith hazel sorry thought they were mod
how do you get those confused
@violet dagger cuz.... idk
Its 4am
river glen
wtf is DI
zenith hazel
get back on topic
ashen lark
Dead inside
zenith hazel
I've already said it once
ashen lark
Anyway as I was saying
zenith hazel
what did I just say?
river glen
oh
ashen lark
Dog is a bad boss in expert/normal like every other one
heady storm
Enough with the stream, back to suggs yeah.
ashen lark
Which is what I outlined
river glen
its supposed to be hard in rev and death
hot zephyr
Any advice for my sugg?
river glen
there is huge skill gap between vanilla
ashen lark
expert isnt ment to be hard
@river glen that's a problem that needs to be fixed
river glen
and modded
zenith hazel
let's just say if a certain pandemic decided to copy it for the curve, it would be eradicated 15m from now
what does this even mean
violet dagger
:echwat:
heady storm
I don't see anything wrong with your sugg Ian.
violet dagger
ians is fine
ashen lark
Its terrible difficulty curve
zenith hazel
@grim tusk put it in a google doc please
hot zephyr
Create a sharable link instead of a .docx file
heady storm
Different things actually.
zenith hazel
yeah but we prefer not having to download things for safety measures
heady storm
^
violet dagger
could a virus be put into docx tho
grim tusk
time to wait 8 minutes
violet dagger
🤔
hot zephyr
It's just easier to manage
violet dagger
anyways back on topic
zenith hazel
alright again, what does the pandemic line have to do with the difficulty curve?
heady storm
@ashen lark
zenith hazel
@grim tusk also next time you'd like to make a suggestion regarding balancing, just ping one of the testers instead so we can look into this ourselves with more reliable numbers
not mandatory but just a precaution
ashen lark
alright again, what does the pandemic line have to do with the difficulty curve?
@zenith hazel I said if it shared the curve of difficulty it'd be over in 15m.
grim tusk
oh ok
ashen lark
Just comparing how bad it is...
zenith hazel
we're planning to somewhat change up ruling regarding balancing suggs anyway
it feels like a superfluous line
ashen lark
Vanilla modes need balancing asap
grim tusk
who could i ping?
foggy plover
can ping me if you need to
heady storm
Anyone with the Beta Tester role really.
zenith hazel
me, chill dude, altix, merk, thousandfields, lauren, chetto, spider and doge
that's practically the most active part of the team that you should ping
hot zephyr
@ashen lark I'd remove any unnecessary lines, most notably the one comparing the difficulty curve on Normal/Expert to a pandemic that's killed over a million people
serene fox
so suggesting balance changes are unnecessary, and we should just ping testers instead?
heady storm
You may as well, yeah.
zenith hazel
I feel like they should decide because of the fact its pretty much a rework (that is needed if they don't want to become a tremor 3,4,5,6 etc. at somepoint, as people may just quit because of how op calam makes you.)
I really don't get this line
hot zephyr
I feel like that suggestion is pretty pointless... if you want the Calamity team to buff bosses/enemies on Normal/Expert; just play Revengeance
zenith hazel
because I really don't get how quitting cal/cal becoming tremor 3 and how op calam makes you are connected
hot zephyr
Handing out big buffs to low difficulties will just make Normal and Expert into Revengeance but with less items
zenith hazel
as for the summoner sugg, proficiency 15 just out of post-prov? really?
hot zephyr
Like if you really just want to play Revengeance with no rippers, there's a config for that
grim tusk
should have used another char with 12-13
zenith hazel
prof 15 and prof 12 are 2 different standards in terms of power level, 1 extra slot can go a long way
hot zephyr
Is there a way to revert/raise your profs? Does CheatSheet have a feature that does that?
ashen lark
Handing out big buffs to low difficulties will just make Normal and Expert into Revengeance but with less items
@hot zephyr normal and expert shouldn't be how easy it is compared to vanilla.
serene fox
there is a mod
grim tusk
i think's dom nohit mod had one but it broke
ashen lark
@serene fox you want me to dm stream?
hot zephyr
They should just bake in a prof editor into the mod as a config
serene fox
no I'm on it now
ashen lark
Or wait till its done
hot zephyr
Actually nevermind
ashen lark
Me butchering moonlord
heady storm
I'll take a peek at some of these then Storm.
ashen lark
Are you using wingslot, 5432?
@hot zephyr I have Wingslot luiafk and a few others but I'm making sure I gain no buffs from it. Except for the skybridge
Cuz... yeah... I need that
E.g. for Winkslot I'm only using 6 acc instead of 7
grim tusk
thanks cheeto
heady storm
@grim tusk pots if I may?
grim tusk
Well fed, Caribean rum, Holy wrath, Cadance, Gravity normalizer (why did i had it lul), Summoning potion, Bewitched, Weightless candle, Spiteful candle, Swiftness, Yharim's stimulants and Mana regen
Lore: AS
heady storm
Mmmmm, thanks.
grim tusk
also for sentries part i forgot that i used VoE over Statis's curse
i corrected it on the doc
ashen lark
Fuck didn't pay attention
Made it so I actually have to use map...
The ai changed last update. Slightly harder nowhere near enough.
serene fox
you should move prob move these anecdotes to #calamity-mod-talk
ashen lark
Used to be just spam as it wouldn't be close to you but if close to you u die
And laser slight rework
Lemme fill in gear
Oh and polar didnt seem to work
And forgot pots
summer sentinel
@hot zephyr I like your suggestion because it's almost like mentioning pylons but also not, it just sort of might add to the whole "technological" aspect by having fast travel between labs because well, technology
summer sentinel
just wanted to mention that since it stuck out to me and I like sci-fi things, anyways, yeah the ambiguity can lead to more curious interpretation
fossil finch
Armaggedon and expert/normal suggs are killing me
On the other side, really like the lab teleport one
Would make it easier for the player to explore underground, add a cool explanation as to how did Draedon and everyone else move from a lab to another, and would in general improve this structures that are already good
hot zephyr
It'd also give incentive to visit Draedon structures long after you've acquired enough of the Draedon mats to craft the arsenal weapons.
violet dagger
Ye
And it would be really nice
You could build a base in them and teleport between them
hot zephyr
Well prep your ⭐ s for when it hits voting
fossil finch
I have plans to make main planetoid my base so lol
violet dagger
Dw I mindlessly star everything now
fossil finch
Actually hyped for 1.4 pillar decorations since i want to reform another 4 planetoids into being pillar themed
teleporting into main one would make building that shit easier lol
ashen lark
Whyd I have to do a idiotic stream at 5am
hollow shell
@ashen lark Are you gonna edit either of your suggestions? Because they could both be a lot clearer with what exactly it is you're talking about.
Is Armageddon not already the no-hit mode, used by no-hitters?
Where is the difficulty spike in Normal/Expert? (that suggestion is also confusing because you say that Calamity Expert is too easy, yet you're also saying to make it less difficult)
ashen lark
@ashen lark Are you gonna edit either of your suggestions? Because they could both be a lot clearer with what exactly it is you're talking about.
Is Armageddon not already the no-hit mode, used by no-hitters?
Where is the difficulty spike in Normal/Expert? (that suggestion is also confusing because you say that Calamity Expert is too easy, yet you're also saying to make it less difficult)
@hollow shell fix by giving a difficultly spike. Now my dumbass is going to bed will edit when I get up.
hollow shell
Alright, see you then ig
heady storm
@grim tusk just going to inform you here and now; post-ml weapons aren't intended to be balanced around the sentinels and are expected to do worse, assuming you thought otherwise.
Just 2 more things to continue on with.
heady storm
@grim tusk so, here's what I was getting by tossing other sentinels into the mix too.
- Nerf Elemental Axes.
- Buff Dazzling Stabbers.
- Everything else is probably up to further discussion.
heady storm
Tiny bit too strong, must make you spend 10 more seconds on the boss.
serene fox
why do I always get shit results when testing axes
tpe always seems to be better
or literally anything else
heady storm
This sugg isn't necessary; #bugs-read-pins also has info regarding them, and how you can get past them.
tawny garden
Well, people are still gonna report the same bugs over and over again
Even with 2 separate channels
signal glade
bruh
ashen warren
i find it funny how no one reads pins
sleek hornet
imo dazzling stabber is quite underpowered compared to elemental axe and plague engine
heady storm
Daud, please focus on your own sugg for now.
tawny garden
There's only one real way to stop people from double reporting
sleek hornet
ok sorry
heady storm
I don't see anything necessarily wrong with the suggestion itself, besides that it basically doesn't serve a purpose that isn't already fulfilled.
tawny garden
You can stop people from double reporting by killing all idiots (~75% of people on this planet)
serene fox
good solution
tawny garden
Genocide crap
heady storm
I won't exclaim it personally, however It'll be staying under any other sugg mod's mercy.
tawny garden
It's valid
sleek hornet
my point is that, bugs read pins have a slowmode and used solely used for reporting new bug, then the new channel will be used for asking help for the bugs
ashen warren
sleek hornet
You can stop people from double reporting by killing all idiots (~75% of people on this planet)
imo dazzling stabber is quite underpowered compared to elemental axe and plague engine
back to this
heady storm
sleek hornet
the solution might be add the holy collider effect on it (explode to homing, not affected by gravity holy flames) and sligtly increase its speed
robust lava
I can guarantee you that making a new channel for bugs will not change anything. People still won't read the pins for the help they need, and it will just create the implication that people don't need to read the pins, since they could just ask first, which just soaks up more people's time, whether that be choosing to help with bugs, or through moderation of another channel.
cobalt pewter
Yes
robust lava
It would also require some sort of approval system, which just delays the time it takes for a bug to be seen, and once again, takes up more moderator time for little gain
heady storm
I'm just gonna post what average kill times for each sentinel should be as a reference.
Storm Weaver - 1:30
Ceaseless Void - 1:30
Signus - 2:00
cobalt pewter
People are just ignorant and won't read pins until they're directly asked to
There's no way to circumvent that unless Discord allows mods to show pins first everytime someone enters bug channel or smth
summer sentinel
the suggestion is valid it's just...I don't see just the need of it because the bugs channel itself has a lot of information about the state of bugs as well as information why/how the bug occurs. (also adding an entirely new channel like that is already a somewhat big thing to do). also ig people just forget to read it Feedzuh, happens
cobalt pewter
That might be true yes, but there are a lot of questions about wof multiplayer that are scattered across the server, and one needs to redirect them to #bugs-read-pins
summer sentinel
having a bugs-help channel can also lead to the similar issue that the current bugs channel has then: where people aren't still redirected to one area. they are scattered yeah, but I doubt one channel will be able to direct all the flow
weak field
Plus, nobody really read the channel names 
dry latch
maybe the bugs channel can have something like that bot in tmod that posts stuff based on a keyword? so a keyword can be selected for each known bug and the bot can just post the fix/reason for it. that'd help people who are sick of repeating it lol
sleek hornet
draedon's lab is intended to be explored early game, and if it have a stronger protection it can lose the 'abandonned' theme of the lab itself
wispy heron
well yeah but you dont have to use these traps for the lab at all even, it could just be a player thing
gray nebula
eol dash anticipation works well with the rest of her visual effects
dont think slapping it onto everyone else would work
(plus like hahah funny originality)
cobalt pewter
Technically polter also got itself a new telegraphed dash
Though the visuals are rather bleh
Just recolored
But there is a telegraph of sorts for polter
proper grail
I saw that
still cliff
I didn't say in all of them
For example it would work well with Polterghast
Or SCal
gray nebula
be patient it's not automatic
but hey I know who can put the result
@zenith hazel
zenith hazel
it's rejected
proper grail
Whelp lol
half mortar
That’s... odd. I liked that suggestion
sturdy geyser
just because you like it doesn't mean its going to get implemented
half mortar
Do you think I don’t know that?
sturdy geyser
no
half mortar
Just seemed like a good sugg to me
zenith hazel
does proficiency really matter that much?
I feel like we've had this discussion before and it ended up with "we're not going to add it, some other mod would"
hollow sierra
Fairly much yeah
wooden wedge
some other mod does iirc
hollow sierra
You'll have to point me in the direction of that mod in that case
hollow sierra
doesn't appear to be anything in the browser by that name
hollow shell
Might not be public? Dunno how to acquire it
But I do know it exists and does have those functions, I seent the testers using it
hollow sierra
anyway i think having first-party support for it would be better
wooden wedge
it's somewhere in the nohit server
hollow shell
I feel like for cheat/testing functions like this it's fine for it to be in a separate mod
robust lava
#suggestions-discussion message this got brought up last time there was a proficiency discussion
wooden wedge
ah
robust lava
I quote Demik's response from last time, and immediately he is summoned
wooden wedge
is there another nohit mod then?
dapper coral
i hear Dom's mod, and i appear
there might be
i've heard that there's one by NotDragonBlade(?) but idk what functions it has
hollow shell
(this one is Dom's mod, right?)
foggy plover
that one isnt for public use.
also a dif one than the old nohit mod if thats what you mean
dapper coral
^
hollow sierra
Hence asking for similar features to be supported in the main mod
zenith hazel
but we agreed they shouldn't be considering they really only support a very minor portion of the community
so why not just make a different QoL mod at that point?
vocal grotto
I changed my mind on that mod some time ago.
The code is publicized on my github. If someone is smart enough to use it, I don't really mind.
But yes, it is intended for Calamity testers.
hollow sierra
I'm not really tech savvy so i can really only hope somebody else does
vocal grotto
As for the Nohit QoL mode, I intentionally destroyed all copies I posted that I could find in there. Still have its source on a private github though.
It's 1. Broken, and 2. Something I didn't really want used anymore.
craggy stratus
oh shit this was my suggestion
I’m now using cheat engine to change the proficiency
tawny garden
@vestal ibex you should have actual kill times to back up your point
(or, I should say, you need them for the suggestion to be valid)
unreal viper
Huh
unreal viper
If auric wasn’t a bitch I’d try calculating the dps
Hm
Nah auric is too complicated for me to bother.
tawny garden
dapper coral
ok are we redirecting testing on other people now
wasn't this what brav was saying a few hours ago
zenith hazel
tyranny's end is getting buffed
serene fox
awesome
tawny garden
ahh
zenith hazel
no need for the sugg
tawny garden
dapper coral
no point in letting it stay lol
vestal ibex
ok
summer sentinel
@serene fox yeah the last kill time for tyranny's end was... not the best, so when it gets buffed it should be better™️
serene fox
tawny garden
good
sleek hornet
I swear no one uses that thing
i did
lavish cloak
serene fox
looks fine
summer sentinel
that suggestion is fine, yes, I see no issue with it
hollow shell
Ye looks good
serene fox
what boss even needs a charge telegraph like eol's?
most bosses that should have telegraphs for their dashes already have one
hollow sierra
queen bee?
serene fox
bosses like pbg don't really need a telegraph for their dashes imo
void kelp
she moves into position as a soft telegraph
sand umbra
that's fantastic
that's also not a telegraph because that doesn't tell you which position she's moving to
void kelp
still waiting on the levi telegraph
sand umbra
unless I've missed an update where she got a delay before actually dashing
serene fox
levi dashes on a cycle so does she also really need one?
hollow shell
Yes
golden narwhal
I mean, there are quite a few bosses that already do that
hollow shell
Shouldn't have to memorize the boss to know when an attack is coming
hence the existence of telegraphs
serene fox
I suppose
sand umbra
what Rover said, yeah
hollow shell
@sleek hornet Pressed enter too early?
cobalt pewter
Telegraphs are gud
tawny garden
Pressed enter too early?
I'd assume so
sleek hornet
@sleek hornet Pressed enter too early?
yes, please wait ill modify it
hollow shell
aighty
sand umbra
so DoG doesn't need his laser telegraphs, then
since he does those on a timer as well below a certain %
tawny garden
oh wait
are you supposed to pay attention to the fight when you're fighting
civic pond
uh
tawny garden
pine star
vocal grotto
They got a speed increase as well as the telegraphs.
If it weren't for that it'd be kinda redundant. But the point is to kill the old thing of just running on a platform and jumping when you saw a laser.
sand umbra
I know, 'twas a funny
blike, to put it simply
a set attack pattern or timer does not constitute a good telegraph or therefore excuse a bad or otherwise nonexistent one
serene fox
mfw mutant
sand umbra
Mutant is the definition of insanity
which is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result
sleek turret
Can confirm.
pine star
Mutant is completely distilled insanity
sand umbra
- that's subjective
- Terry's boss design, particularly on Mutant, plays into the idea that if you have a set attack timer/pattern, you don't need much in the way of telegraphs, because the pattern/timer is the telegraph
and that mindset really isn't healthy
an attack you can memorize the position of in the boss' attack pattern can still be unfair
pine star
Yeah
Like a hypothetical attack that leaves one 3x2 space completely unscathed and never changes that space
It is set
But it is also unfair
sand umbra
it's funny because the Leviathan's dash is the best example
vocal grotto
Like, look me in the eye an tell me this is OK
sturdy geyser
this is not okay
pine star
Yep
sand umbra
in any event, there are two ways that an attack which follows the "set attack time = fair" philosophy can in fact feel very unfair to the average player, i.e. the type of person that should be used as a frame of reference
the first, and the one best described by PBG's dashes, is a scenario in which RNG significant changes the nature of the attack and there is no telegraph or skill involved in counterplaying that RNG
PBG has three different main dash directions she can do: diagonal up, flat horizontally, and diagonal down
there is no indication of which one she is about to do aside from the weak telegraph of "moving into position"
cobalt pewter
A fun telegraph I can think of for PBG is a green crosshair on the boss's destination before each dash
sand umbra
yes
that'd suit so well with the boss' design and it'd allow the dash direction to be telegraphed in a way that doesn't even really change the way the dash works currently
(before I write a sugg on this though I wanna finish my thought)
cobalt pewter
sand umbra
the second way an attack of this nature can be unfair, and this is actually the one where Levi's dashes are the best example
are attacks where the context of the attack in the fight combined with the attacks around it makes it extremely difficult or outright-impossible to avoid the attack even if there is a telegraph
Levi has a very noticeable tell when she's about to dash
but even in Leviathan's recent Death changes video you can see his aquatic counterpart dashing with a starting point extremely close to him
sand umbra
remember: the Leviathan is enormous and dashes rather quickly
cobalt pewter
Yes
sand umbra
at close range, that dash is a guaranteed hit
sand umbra
so even though the dash happens on a set timer and has a decent enough telegraph, it can still be unfair due to contextual implications
cobalt pewter
Probably a tie or smth rip
so even though the dash happens on a set timer, it can still be unfair due to contextual implications
True, plus the fact that levi just fucking nyooms as soon as she got clearance kinda contradicts her designed size and momentum
sand umbra
¯_(ツ)_/¯
cobalt pewter
A behemoth like her shouldn't be able to just nyoom at full speed
sand umbra
anywho, that's my mini-rambling on why set timer/pattern != fair
I have a PBG crosshair to suggest
cobalt pewter
that's mini?
tawny garden
yes, that is mini
serene fox
fear
sand umbra
there we go, sugg written
golden narwhal
tawny garden
🥳
summer sentinel
that's a fair suggestion, I don't see an issue with it
her diagonal dashes can definitely be jarring to the new players for sure
sand umbra
byeah
rose jewel
cobalt pewter
Just technical changes so that she doesn't immediately combo her dashes
But there's no actual telegraph with them yet
tawny garden
opposite the dash's starting point
what exactly do you mean by that?
opposite relative to the player character?
cobalt pewter
I'd assume that yes
summer sentinel
I think he means when pbg stays for a tiny bit of time and then prepares the diagonal dash
cobalt pewter
Since PBG usually dashes once she got a good position relative to the player
summer sentinel
so it's like, lower left to top right or lower right to top left and pbg would technically "cross" you in your path
tawny garden
ok
real steppe
is Bloodfin supposed to be used again even when potion sickness is active when the regen buff is over?
i can use it again and I technically have a healing potion every 10 seconds
real steppe
wanna suggest something about if its intended
oh..
can somebody else test? im too lazy
serene fox
just disable every other mod except cal and then use it again
see if you can still use it every 10 seconds
serene fox
wack
real steppe
I can use the Bloodfin every 10 seconds
serene fox
ok send it in #bugs-read-pins
sleek hornet
make sure that you dont have any acc equipped just in case
wooden wedge
I'm pretty sure issues with bloodfin is fixed next update
@radiant meadow (are they?)
sleek hornet
I'm pretty sure issues with bloodfin is fixed next update
i did not find anything about that
serene fox
all I could find about them in the bugs doc is them not healing
real steppe
im preparing to report rn, but
it seems like by cancelling the bloodfin regen buff
you can reuse the bloodfin by pressing the buff button
i'll go to #bugs-read-pins after this
red stormBOT
tawny garden
you don't even have to buy them
sleek hornet
tawny garden
you can use them in the shop window
copper turret
serene fox
wait really
tawny garden
💯
cobalt pewter
you don't even have to buy them
smh
serene fox
that's dumb
copper turret
Then what's the point of buying them then?
serene fox
convenience
sleek hornet
if you eqquiped it youll get proviciency faster
tawny garden
iirc they have a chance to give you twice sometimes
serene fox
also it sounds like an oversight
tawny garden
but that's pretty much it
copper turret
alright
tawny garden
also it sounds like an oversight
sounds like a feature to me
serene fox
copper turret
Usually I don't buy the stat meters so I don't use all of my inventory slots
hollow shell
Keep in piggy bank
copper turret
They're not as useful as cosmolight
sleek hornet
at least its not golem's lore
tawny garden
cobalt pewter
I wonder if it's alright to make a sugg for level meters to grant bonus prof when favorited instead of equipped
serene fox
why though
tawny garden
to not waste an accessory slot, 4head
cobalt pewter
I usually never bothered using any at all, nor do I care about proficiency, if anything
tawny garden
hollow shell
They are gettin buffed next update
cobalt pewter
tawny garden
hollow shell
twas in changelogs
#changelogs message
tawny garden
ah, right
hollow shell
You can earn XP twice as fast while they're equipped
cobalt pewter
Discord linking on mobile broke and I just saw sad true melee nerfs
hollow shell
(assuming optimal enemy striking)
tawny garden
I saw that one, but then forgot
cobalt pewter
summer sentinel
bloodfin issue? let me check
@real steppe that bloodfin issue is fixed this next update, it doesn't let you heal every 10s with the quick buff button
tawny garden
@grim tusk I think it's a good idea to remove the two mentions from your sugg
grim tusk
I got told by mods to ping testers in it
heady storm
Yeah, Brav came in.
summer sentinel
I can see why
heady storm
Balance suggestions really shouldn't be tossed into posting, considering it now.
summer sentinel
sure thing, it also made me curious to see it myself because tbh, I don't think many people even know of bloodfins existence but they are v nice
real steppe
you can heal every second actually by cancelling the regen buff over and over again
tawny garden
Balance suggestions really shouldn't be tossed into posting, considering it now.
thing is
if you disallow these suggs, there isn't really any proper way for people to get devs/testers/etc. to reconsider the balancing
radiant meadow
@wooden wedge I think I fixed it? Someone should test it tho
summer sentinel
scroll up Ben, I tested it 
ashen warren
feel like there should be another way to get into hardmode
having to build a arena for wall of flesh everytime is pretty boring
but in the higher difficulties its almost neccesary
sleek hornet
wat, another way?
ashen warren
yeah
glass sentinel
thats changing all of terraria
ashen warren
im not saying remove wall of flesh
glass sentinel
but in regards to the pbg sugg, i never had problems seeing where she would charge
so
im not saying remove wall of flesh
ik
but it still changes the game
glass sentinel
like too much
ashen warren
another way to get into hardmode wouldnt change much
sleek hornet
i dont think its a good idea, because its requires a lot of works, and doos not fit to the lore of WoF itself
zenith hazel
but WoF is practically the gate that guards hardmode
ashen warren
yeah ik but maybe like a different form of wall of flesh?
zenith hazel
adding another way would be unnecessary
glass sentinel
it needs to fit the game
ashen warren
maybe one that stands still with different attacks?
cobalt pewter
Floor of Flesh
zenith hazel
and takes way too much time and effort to set up
cobalt pewter
zenith hazel
we're not adding a boss like that
ashen warren
fair
glass sentinel
move yharim to prehardmode
ashen warren
👍
cobalt pewter
we're not adding another boss
Draedon, Yharim, Noxus and Xeroc:
I was joking brav don't smite me
ashen warren
oh no hes still typing
zenith hazel
me when quoting an unedited line
cobalt pewter
serene fox
ok so basically
armageddon becomes a mode that makes bosses over-aggressive and unfair
awesome
ashen warren
👍
serene fox
@ashen lark why
making bosses fair doesn't mean they're stepping away from the no-hit community
summer sentinel
^ the mod isn't and shouldn't be balanced around nohitting because of how niche it is
radiant meadow
Bosses being fair is better for nohits tbh.
ashen lark
Which in turn is stepping away from no-hit. I'm saying armagedon should trigger the current ais in the future
radiant meadow
and storing two different AIs sounds awful
Nohitting often reveals what is unfair and we want to fix that.
glass sentinel
people nohitting dont want the mod to be changed for us
we want to nohit the mod everyone has
ashen lark
P much.
cobalt pewter
Nohitters are just discount testers
golden narwhal
I still don't understand how making bosses more fair is stepping away from nohitting
ashen lark
Nohitters are just discount testers
@cobalt pewter lol
foggy plover
its not
glass sentinel
Nohitters are just discount testers
nah, we try and find the most busted options
ashen lark
I still don't understand how making bosses more fair is stepping away from nohitting
@golden narwhal making it easier = less of a challenge
glass sentinel
I still don't understand how making bosses more fair is stepping away from nohitting
if anything its making nohitting more popular
radiant meadow
also, the actual reward is the roles, right?
cobalt pewter
Hard doesn't need to be unfair
ashen lark
nah, we try and find the most busted options
@glass sentinel which then allows nerfs
heady storm
They really aren't "discount testers."
radiant meadow
do you know how bad it would be to judge if two different rev fights existed?
golden narwhal
...that's the confusing part, wert
glass sentinel
also that was kinda a joke
also, the actual reward is the roles, right?
yes, the pretty colours
summer sentinel
it's not stepping away but nohitters are so fractionally small considering the whole playerbase
golden narwhal
Why is making smth easier stepping away from nohitting (it's not)
foggy plover
why is this still even going on from yesterday
its clearly gone no where since then
glass sentinel
this was from yesterday?
serene fox
Yes
foggy plover
yes.
glass sentinel
i mean the sugg has been ❗
golden narwhal
The discussion was revived in an attempt to prompt an edit, ig
summer sentinel
consider going back to suggestion talk
glass sentinel
i never had too much difficulty seeing where pbg would charge
but that might just be me
cobalt pewter
Just you
sand umbra
that never does happen with nohits where you can make the arena as fat as you like and simply annihilate her before it gets out of hand, now does it 
cobalt pewter
Some bosses do need telegraphs for their stuff
ashen lark
do you know how bad it would be to judge if two different rev fights existed?
@radiant meadow the fight would only be stored in armagedon. This would mean that to judge the fight it wouldn't be hard especially since its not that much of an ai change. Perhaps I could make it death only? That would at least make it only 1 set of ais. Idk if I got what you said correctly
cobalt pewter
Also let's get real here, pbg's diagonal dashes are scary for new players
radiant meadow
I'm saying armageddon shouldn't change boss AIs
cobalt pewter
And the crosshair does nothing but help mitigating that
glass sentinel
Just you
well
sand umbra
they're scary as fuck and they feel hella unfair the first few...dozen...times
I swear this isn't just me being bad at the game
cobalt pewter
lmao
golden narwhal
nah, it's all of us being bad at the game
cobalt pewter
I definitely do good vs pbg's dash
But my belief is that everything hard hitting, fast or complicated need telegraphs
sand umbra
byeah
glass sentinel
80 - Plaguebringer Goliath can no longer combo diagonal dashes insanely quickly. For example, if she charges from the bottom left she will not be able to charge from the top right once her dash completes, meaning she will need to move to the middle right or bottom right to do another dash. - Done
just a heads up that fab has nerfed the charges already
golden narwhal
That just made her unable to chain dashes immediately
cobalt pewter
That just nerfing an extremely unfair chance
sand umbra
^
glass sentinel
fair
cobalt pewter
People would be expecting just QB dashes at first, then at some point they broke apart seeing her nyoom to various directions
sand umbra
don't get me wrong, that change is extremely good because PBG being able to come onto the same dash lane twice in a row is fucking meme
glass sentinel
she can also just like fucking sit down on the player
cobalt pewter
The telegraph lets them prepare of sort
glass sentinel
which is pretty BS
sand umbra
most Calamity bosses can and will do that
in any event
change 80 is really good for the reason I stated
but the fact of the matter still stands that PBG's dashes don't actually give you enough indication of where they're gonna be goin' to begin with
the dashes themselves are good as they are since they need to be a certain distance away to start and thus would give the player enough time to react with such a tell but fuck trying to figure out where she's gonna come from on the next dash is hard
hollow shell
Hold up
The reason why I pinged you in the first place about the Arma sugg @ashen lark,
is that your suggestion says "instead of stepping away from the no-hit community"
What change are you talking about in which we're moving away from the community?
Also "Make armagedon a no-hit mode" implies you want Armageddon to be the mode that makes you die in one hit, which it already is.
You need to include more stuff for clarification in your suggestion. You're being too vague, and assuming people already know the context for your sugg
serene fox
I don't really get it either
somehow making bosses more fair and appealing is stepping away from the no-hit community???
wooden wedge
I don't understand anything from that sugg
hollow shell
He doesn't even say that recent changes to make fights less unfair is the thing that he's talking about moving away from the community, he never draws that connection.
(He kinda does, but it's more difficult than necessary to parse)
serene fox
that's the gist o what he said when we discussed here
wooden wedge
are they talking about boss AIs in the sugg?
hollow shell
I think so, I think he's talking about recent AI nerfs
wooden wedge
oh so is the sugg talking about reverting AI nerfs and moving them to arma???
crude geode
That's a really weird thing to ask for. Nerfs are a normal part of the game.
wooden wedge
and I don;t think it'd help the nohit community
I think people would just use the scal lore as a nohit tool and completely forget about arma
serene fox
it wouldn't help nor would it appeal to them either
wooden wedge
and wouldn't arma be banned for nohits if this goes through?
either that or the nohit people would have to make new rules and have to make different rules for the same bosses
crude geode
Also, no-hit community is already pretty separate from the normal community tbh
wooden wedge
that doesn't make too much sense, does it
summer sentinel
I mean realistically, moving features like that to arma would be a bit of effort in itself for no real reason? since it just doesn't make sense for the effort
grim tusk
People especially nohitters do not want boss ais to get reverted to an unfair state. 1.4.5.001 Ravager and Deus are a key example of extremely unfair bosses
And lets not talk about OD who has been considered multiple times the hardest boss
Even with the nerfs its gotten
serene fox
OD is one of the more lax bosses in no-hitting wdym
he's only a problem in regular play tbh
cause getting him to spawn is ass
grim tusk
Rn its pretty lax, 1.4.4 old duke was ass
grim tusk
Also random despawning
serene fox
yeah literally no one wants unfair bosses to be locked behind armageddon
crude geode
exactly
grim tusk
DS arma farming
cobalt pewter
and I don;t think it'd help the nohit community
I think people would just use the scal lore as a nohit tool and completely forget about arma
Scal lore is gon reworked no? Byech
serene fox
instant death mod byeah
grim tusk
Hp begone as well
cobalt pewter
DS arma farming
Glad this won't be a thing anymore, I find that arma farming is real
Dumb
crude geode
Wait since when was arma farming dead?
serene fox
they're going to change arma iirc
cobalt pewter
Soon™
summer sentinel
plans for arma and defiled reworks are a thing, yes
crude geode
understandable
grim tusk
Defiled reworks :yay: Birb (specially birb) and Yharon are pretty unfair in Death Defiled not gonna lie
foggy plover
arma, defiled, scal lore, all gonna get reworked at some point ye
serene fox
defiled yharon is fine wdym
foggy plover
glass aint dead tho,.,.,.,
serene fox
it's nerfed but not dead
fossil finch
Arma farming dead makes me sad
Well nvm time to keep using alch npc lite to buy bags ig
summer sentinel
there will still "one hit death" toggle I think? but yeah those are getting reworked for the better though
crude geode
also I think dragonblood disgorger is fine, in regards to your suggestion @grim tusk , because it's specifically a healing weapon.
grim tusk
Yep 
grim tusk
For non sentry ones
It just added about 3500-4000 dps
Also now that I think about it PSA might need to be nerfed again
foggy plover
yes
it carries summoner
hard
which is why summoner balancing is super wack at that tier
same with shit like hote and sentries
summoner balancing is hell
grim tusk
HoTE aint that bad but sentries are pretty op (except the ML drops, those need a huge buff)
cobalt pewter
delete PSA
serene fox
I will have your kneecaps if you delete psa
foggy plover
should know by now nothing is ever gonna get deleted from cal
grim tusk
Except heart rapier
summer sentinel
that one is special
crude geode
~~astrageladon ~~
foggy plover
1 item every year is the limit
grim tusk
the lorde
serene fox
crimsaber
foggy plover
byeah chetto looked at all the stuff in your doc already iirc so some rebalancing will happen after this "hotfix" is finally out
crude geode
(Deleting things is against the main ideals fab has, but it has happened.)
wonderful
grim tusk
Also while attempting Scal nohitting (no success 
) i noticed that Cadaverous carrion cannot be placed in the air nor rails
Bug or feature?
foggy plover
I have no idea on that
crude geode
isn't that just standard sentry behavior (minus the post ml ones and certain others)?
foggy plover
I swear you could place them anywhere
summer sentinel
cadaverous should only be placeable on platforms or solid block, it being in air or rails would just be odd
crude geode
^
summer sentinel
Ben fixed it to work on platforms and that was it of its mention
foggy plover
yea that
should happen
like it should be placeable
I think that might just be a bug?
summer sentinel
oh so when you try to put it on rails or in air it doesn't spawn and fall down?
grim tusk
Yep it doesnt spawn
summer sentinel
yeah that's a bug then, thanks for informing
grim tusk
Your welcome
river glen
what about a nerf to phanastimal fury/ dark spark
they outclass every other weapon pre dog
serene fox
really?
serene fox
those two options are rather average tbh
foggy plover
fury is average, spark is good it just seems like nobody knows how to use it
trident is wack
serene fox
trident is wack on dog
foggy plover
when someone tested it it was bad but ive seen it melt
thunderstorm is
thunderstorm
lol
serene fox
ye
serene fox
it's dumb
serene fox
but it's a riv of an already rare enemy so ehhh
foggy plover
yea itll be nerfed, but it will still be hella good
serene fox
coolio
river glen
i also wish duke weapons were better
considering its old duke
and its a very hard boss
foggy plover
yea thats kind of in mind too
river glen
for most players
serene fox
I just think people should be able to learn him faster
cobalt pewter
Yeah spawning OD is CBT
river glen
the only good weapon is the sentry
visual wigeon
The nebula arcanum upgrade destroys dog
serene fox
cause he's easily one of the most fair and consistent bosses in all of cal
river glen
well
foggy plover
he sucks ass for newer players
river glen
most players sturggle
foggy plover
and if you dont just spam bobbit hook
river glen
against his dashes
cobalt pewter
Also I might repost the Decap buff sugg 
, I wonder if there's any details on the weapon from testers
serene fox
basically he's mutant
foggy plover
lemme go look feedzuh
foggy plover
tester says it was fine but honestly looks like it needs a buff imo
river glen
@foggy plover who?
foggy plover
talking to feedzuh
foggy plover
make him easier to spawn and just easier to newer players imo
river glen
old duke needs to be friendlier to newer players nad harder for older players/good players
cobalt pewter
tester says it was fine but honestly looks like it needs a buff imo
Because the general impression on Decap has always been "wtf is this" from my observation, but I guess it's hard to beat testers in terms of credibility
serene fox
it'd make him pose very little threat once you've actually mastered him
foggy plover
decap is a brain power weapon
river glen
hes a fucking nightmare
foggy plover
and its not good enough for being a brain power weapon
byeah, are we gonna actually get a sug out of this convo or
cobalt pewter
Mhm, I personally would increase its damage relative to its velocity, so when it's not moving it can deal nutty dmg
I can't really test stuff to warrant a sugg
foggy plover
then we should move
river glen
out of it
serene fox
I've already made my OD suggestion so eyeah
river glen
maybe
but i want to buff old dukes weapons
they really feel not in line
with pre dog weapons
summer sentinel
@grim tusk can you get a video of the cadav head and dm it to me? I wasn't able to replicate it at all: I summoned it in air and on rails and it just fell on my wooden platform I had
serene fox
doesn't impaler and twister obliterate dog or
also can't really compare carrion to subj
cause it's a sentry
hot zephyr
@cobalt pewter Question: If Ammo Damage is removed from the game; what will happen to ammunition like Silver bullets.
Their only benefit is literally just being more damage
serene fox
if anything, you should compare it to guidelight and energy staff
cobalt pewter
That's up to anyone trying to implement that change, but I already have a plan for silver and tungsten bullets, though I'm more confident for silver one atm
summer sentinel
which class or ones specifically?
summer sentinel
alright give me a second since it's already been tested I think
fetid (holy fire bullets) did better than viper did by like, 30 seconds, but neither were too broken/strong in their own sense @serene fox
serene fox
I feel like that's a problem though
they should be stronger than average weapons you find at that tier
summer sentinel
OD drops are, confusing because a couple are good and a couple are average, like impaler and toxicant basically got
kill times within ~7 seconds of one another, but they were far off from regular kill time
serene fox
buff the average ones tbh
foggy plover
I dont get whats strange about that but ok
cobalt pewter
Fetid Emesis is just SDFMG material 😔
summer sentinel
I think OD weps are fine as they are like, if you pair impaler or toxicant with a more damaing build, it will do work
foggy plover
halleys is dead right?
summer sentinel
I think so?
no recent test of it but it got changed iirc so it should be okay overall
glass sentinel
some of od's weps are fucking godly
cadaverous carrion is really fucking good for yharon
toxicant is great for dog
the mage and ranged ones i have 0 clue
but insidious is also very very powerful
serene fox
carrion is good?
I never hear anyone talking about how good carrion is
might have to do with 70% of players skipping od byeah
dapper blaze
@ashen warren read the pins in #suggestions-posting
violet dagger
summer sentinel
carrion is fine it's just people don't normally use sentries to begin with since it's a little niche in itself 
serene fox
it's also an od drop 
hollow shell
You need to have a separate paragraph/sentences for reasoning in your suggestion @ashen warren
Separate as in Shift+Enter
in order for the bot to parse it correctly
hollow shell
I understand it but it do need a reasoning
golden narwhal
Basically have all ranger helmets be named 'visor' or smth
hollow shell
yeah
for all sets in the game
It would be nice for player understandability, but not so nice for creativity
cobalt pewter
Sometimes it can be a lil confusing ye
golden narwhal
Might also require resprites, ig, for helmets that don't fit their classes 'name'
cobalt pewter
But I personally don't have a problem since there are class stats in these helmets
So you most likely won't miss it unless you're in rush
The only time this'd be a problem imo is in fact for Spectre Hood in 1.4.1, since it no longer additional tooltips aside defense
(the dmg reduction and the tooltip showing it is moved to set bonus so yech)
oblique light
I considered an Idea where each minion you summon increases a stat depending on the minion summoned.
This helps there be diversity in the minions you summon.
Making the class far more interesting and take more thought to choose your minions other than "how much damage can it do to the current boss" as well as letting you have multiple types of minions if you want to min-max.
For example, if terraprisma existed, each sword would increace your wing time.
Stardust dragon could increase your defense,
and Stardust Cell staff could deal more damage than the other two.
So you could have two swords as a summoner to make your flight time increace by (15 x 2) 30%
five segments of stardust dragon to keep up your survivability-for (5 x 5)25 defense
and stardust cell stats which deal normal damage.(the other two would have reduced damage)
oblique light
Yep.
serene fox
and you'd have to rebalance the entire class
oblique light
Would fix common complaints with summoner though.
serene fox
summoner being a bit boring I assume?
cobalt pewter
This is a common conversation piece
golden narwhal
Defo think it's a cool idea, byea
oblique light
I find it drab there's never a good reason to use more than one minion. idek if it would fix that though.
cobalt pewter
And answer is: probably too much work to worth anything
oblique light
entirely true.
cobalt pewter
Maybe they can test it on few weapons, but idk
oblique light
maybe if it were implemented a few years ago.
golden narwhal
There are some instances where it's good to use another minion (caustic staff, disgorger)
distant vault
Temporal Umbrella but that's mostly because it's slot real estate
cobalt pewter
And the fact that there's a shred of active summoner gameplay outside meme classless weaps (which is only Borealis Bomber, rip your finger tho)
Just a shred that could be improved on
But less likely to
oblique light
oh, it would also make armors with a few summoner slots but useless for non-hybrid summoners get use.
--A feasible way to add it in would be to make a few summoning weapons have the effect in return for weaker dps, scattered throughout the game. That would let it be implemented without overhauling the class.--
jagged zealot
Would this be the chat be the questions channel?
jagged zealot
Ok
serene fox
funny
frail mantle
soon™️
crude geode
Soon™️
dry latch
dude is gone
cobalt pewter
lmao
dry latch
delete sugg
heady storm
cobalt pewter
crude geode
autocorrect be like that
Mmmm yes bad sugg gets deleted funny
heady storm
Actually while I'm here, I already tested through these and put my results in dev. https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/772679538617352193
crude geode
Wonderful
heady storm
So do I go and add 🛠️ since I marked some to get rebalanced.
cobalt pewter
gotta make sure because linking on mobile is ass and a half
heady storm
Np cursed, and yeah the one I linked.
cobalt pewter
So do I go and add 🛠️ since I marked some to get rebalanced.
You should be able to do that yes. I don't recall which sugg, but rover definitely clapped the 🛠️ on a recent sugg because it's already been planned to be worked on
heady storm
I'll add it for now, but someone can yell at me if it needs to go.
crude geode
While I’m here, can anyone say why this sugg was rejected? (If they can) #suggestions-voting message
frail mantle
that i don't know
summer sentinel
it got denied most likely to it just not being needed and being a bit of work to implement for a rather minor thing, overall that is
sleek hornet
old duke have a similiar attack pattern like duke fishron anyway
crude geode
@sleek hornet There's no other environmental hazards in the abyss, which would make it kinda stick out like a sore thumb.
golden narwhal
There's the scoria ore debris pre-golem
sleek hornet
hmm.. i realized that there are lots of sugg regarding the 4th layer
golden narwhal
Byea
sleek hornet
its commically slow and does not pose any significant threat whatsoever
cobalt pewter
The threat should've been on the mobs imo
crude geode
^
cobalt pewter
But liie
sleek hornet
and they are existn't in 4th layer anyway
fossil finch
Yeah you normally don't see much enemies in the forth later until you reach the terminus shrine yeah
You just go too fast down for them to spawn
crude geode
I blame the boots combined with the size of the abyss.
sleek hornet
The threat should've been on the mobs imo
but i mean.. its literally just one step above hell and pressed with tons of water pressure
cobalt pewter
With the mobility the player have and something like diving gears (most likely just the abyssal suit for breathing)
Reaper Sharks are just helpless
golden narwhal
Base problem with water-based mobs: they can't be fast enough to catch up with the slowed down player but they're not a threat with any flipper mobility
crude geode
^^^^^^
sleek hornet
it cant even fire anything
Base problem with water-based mobs: they can't be fast enough to catch up with the slowed down player but they're not a threat with any flipper mobility
dukes: ...
cobalt pewter
crude geode
implying duke is a water based mob.
golden narwhal
Implying anyone fights duke underwater
crude geode
^
cobalt pewter
Give the 4th layer water mobility nerfs if you want it to be threatening at least
crude geode
You literally fish it out of the water
I would prefer a nerf to the size of the fourth layer and the speed the boots give you tbh
sleek hornet
but anyway, they can be always be sped up
crude geode
bc god it's absurd.
cobalt pewter
Anyone got a chart on layers btw? I still have no exact clues which is which