Gonna need boss kill times
#suggestions-discussion
hollow shell
quick relic
Lower dps
hollow shell
Gonna need boss kill times
tawny garden
dps means nothing
hollow shell
Or at least it does not mean as much as kill times do
DPS can be very misleading if you're using it against dummies and not actually against bosses
foggy plover
theres already some plans for terra disk iirc
glass sentinel
calamity scales the defense/DR of the boss based on murder time
hollow shell
That effect's pretty negligible tho Lorax
hollow shell
The rebalances update, you say
hollow shell
Ah I see
zenith hazel
I'll just delete it
hollow shell
o.. kay
zenith hazel
it's already planned so there really isn't a point for the sugg to stay
also we might need to organize this whole buff/nerf thing for suggestions a bit better
hollow shell
How so
zenith hazel
like here's the thing
when someone makes that sort of sugg, testers will see if it is valid through boss tests and such, there's no need for the sugg to reach 200 stars even
hollow shell
π€ Hm
zenith hazel
if the wep is fine then testers can say it's fine (the sugg can probably go into voting but it's not like we're gonna do anything about it if it reaches dev), but if it isn't then we'll just say "oh we'll just buff/nerf this for next update, ty for the heads up" and promptly delete it
it just kinda feels redundant
so we kinda talked about a solution in dev where whenever someone needs to make this sort of suggestion, they can just ping one of the testers to validate what they're saying, no need to put one in to posting
hollow shell
Should we do something like
deliver balance suggs to #test_reference immediately after leaving posting, instead of going to #suggestions-voting?
zenith hazel
yeah that's usually the process
we see something like that in posting, we just forward it to test hq/ref in order to alert the other testers
hollow shell
Alright, we can try to set up some system for that once Amber gets the bots back online
zenith hazel
yea what I'm trying to achieve here is to not clog voting with balance suggestions when they can be either approved/denied right when they're posted
so either people can ping testers to check for this sort of thing or we can come up with a different approach
glass sentinel
maybe asking before posting the sugg
like ask after the opinions of the testers in sugg disc
zenith hazel
that's... what I'm trying to do
foggy plover
most of the time for rebalancing, items don't really need a full suggestion
zenith hazel
honestly all people need to do is just yell "yo this wep sucks ass lmao" in cal talk and there's a chance we will look into it lole
not that it's a good approach or anything because there will be some wrong opinions byeah
tawny garden
"wrong opinions"
unreal viper
Epic gaming.
distant vault
I was thinking of a suggestion to fix the plaguebringer hitboxes, here's an example of why
foggy plover
yea the hitbox is inside their wings for some reason
pbg also needs a hitbox change iirc
hollow shell
Ah I didn't know normal Plaguebringers had buggy hitboxes
only heard it for PBG a few updates back
foggy plover
π€«
craggy stratus
now this is a pogger moment
although cheat sheet can help you obtain those virtually in no time
heady storm
Now just wait properly for its delivery.
cobalt pewter
hollow shell
Delivered that immediately
tawny garden
it's delivered by Russian Mail Service
craggy stratus
pigeon
glass sentinel
there wont be an npc wo sells the bars
worthy lintel
I can kinda get behind it, but Scal isn't that much difficult to farm
glass sentinel
but yea more essence per drop would be nice
craggy stratus
if you craft 1 post scal weapon
scal immediately become easy to farm even if you are experienced or not
glass sentinel
^
worthy lintel
I wonder if it's possible to alter drops by taking in account damage done via a certain type
Like, if you inflict over 75% damage via summons, it boosts the odds of a summon drop from Scal
just asking obv
hollow shell
I think that's been suggested before, the type-drop thing
worthy lintel
im only here since march so i don't know much yet
hollow shell
Can't remember how possible it is
glass sentinel
thats gonna be pain to code
copper turret
think about this. it's literally the essence of a witch more powerful than birb, worm, fire butterfly, dungeon soul and boomerfish combined. and an npc is supposed to sell it? ok then
craggy stratus
you could say the same thing about boss summons
copper turret
yes but that's just a summon
none of the summons are used to craft anything (excluding the eye of desolation, and thats not for a weapon or accessory)
craggy stratus
hmm
copper turret
also dryad can only get up to overloaded sludge and mutant is literally parallel to scal so it kind of makes sense
craggy stratus
the npc selling it part wont work then
copper turret
but npc selling calamitous essence would be super op, it would make the high shadowspec costs of fabstaff and blushie staff worthless because they would be literally the same as the others because you can just get 2,500 essence and get like 2,500 shadowspec bars
tl:dr: it would make the "super high cost" part of some weapons useless
pine star
Maybe when Scal becomes an npc she sells it?
violet minnow
It would need to be like a trade, so you give the npc one of her drops, and the npc gives back the correct amount of bars needed to craft that item
copper turret
huh, that would be really cool
sleek turret
copper turret
yeah, increase calamitous essence would be nice
copper turret
it sounds more fair
hollow sierra
Regarding selling the essence, would it be possible to scale the cost exponentially the more you buy of them
like maybe you'd start at 10 plat and every essence you buy adds 10% so the second costs 11, third costs 12.1, etc
true blade
DM cave darkness isnβt a huge problem
All you need to do is replace your normal torches with ultra bright torches and they function pretty much just like normal torches deep underground, not to mention the merchant sells them for pretty cheap
heady storm
Also I can't remove the quote from the sugg I just approved since doing so also gets rid of the emotes.
Just saying before I probably get asked.
radiant meadow
It shouldn't?
hollow shell
What?
heady storm
Yeah Idk, it did it for me for whatever reason.
dapper coral
discord does a funny sometimes where it doesn't recognize the emote names even when they're basic ones
hollow shell
Thingie with π emotes
and π stuff
dapper coral
idk why
hollow shell
works for me
heady storm
Use a new emoji reaction to clearly define when a suggestion is added as a "to-do"
As it stands, there is a for seen suggestions, a for seen suggestions that may or may not be implemented, and a for suggestions that are already implemented. However, there is nothing for suggestions that are planned to be implemented. As a result, suggestions with are often ambiguous as to whether the suggestion will actually be added or not. Adding a new reaction to clearly state a suggestion is planned to be added would make it obvious and remove any uncertainty.
Use a new emoji reaction to clearly define when a suggestion is added as a "to-do"
As it stands, there is a β for seen suggestions, a π for seen suggestions that may or may not be implemented, and a π for suggestions that are already implemented. However, there is nothing for suggestions that are planned to be implemented. As a result, suggestions with π are often ambiguous as to whether the suggestion will actually be added or not. Adding a new reaction to clearly state a suggestion is planned to be added would make it obvious and remove any uncertainty.
hollow shell
(then again I'm not using the preview thing)
heady storm
Removed and back.
hollow shell
(I see the emotes and indents as plain text)
heady storm
I just don't see them at all.
hollow shell
(I stopped using the preview thing cuz it's buggy... as you can see)
(Feel free to follow in my footsteps π )
dapper coral
is what i see
heady storm
Yeah that's what I see too.
hollow shell
Yes thas what everyone sees
heady storm
dapper coral
i am confus
limber ocean
you guys mean the last thing in #suggestions-voting?
cause I'm seeing that just fine
heady storm
Yeah you should be, I just can't remove the quote otherwise it flops.
limber ocean
oh shit
yeah, now I scrolled uo
up*
and, uh... yeah, I'm not seeing stuff, either
cobalt pewter
Use a new emoji reaction to clearly define when a suggestion is added as a "to-do"
As it stands, there is a β for seen suggestions, a π for seen suggestions that may or may not be implemented, and a π for suggestions that are already implemented. However, there is nothing for suggestions that are planned to be implemented. As a result, suggestions with π are often ambiguous as to whether the suggestion will actually be added or not. Adding a new reaction to clearly state a suggestion is planned to be added would make it obvious and remove any uncertainty.
hollow shell
^
heady storm
Use a new emoji reaction to clearly define when a suggestion is added as a "to-do"
As it stands, there is a for seen suggestions, a for seen suggestions that may or may not be implemented, and a for suggestions that are already implemented. However, there is nothing for suggestions that are planned to be implemented. As a result, suggestions with are often ambiguous as to whether the suggestion will actually be added or not. Adding a new reaction to clearly state a suggestion is planned to be added would make it obvious and remove any uncertainty.
cobalt pewter
Tf Discord
heady storm
Copying the text didn't work as you see.
cobalt pewter
w h a t
hollow shell
me:
Use a new emoji reaction to clearly define when a suggestion is added as a "to-do"
As it stands, there is a β for seen suggestions, a π for seen suggestions that may or may not be implemented, and a π for suggestions that are already implemented. However, there is nothing for suggestions that are planned to be implemented. As a result, suggestions with π are often ambiguous as to whether the suggestion will actually be added or not. Adding a new reaction to clearly state a suggestion is planned to be added would make it obvious and remove any uncertainty.
limber ocean
hmm
cobalt pewter
At this point I feel like it's an issue on your side chet
limber ocean
Use a new emoji reaction to clearly define when a suggestion is added as a "to-do"
As it stands, there is a β for seen suggestions, a π for seen suggestions that may or may not be implemented, and a π for suggestions that are already implemented. However, there is nothing for suggestions that are planned to be implemented. As a result, suggestions with π are often ambiguous as to whether the suggestion will actually be added or not. Adding a new reaction to clearly state a suggestion is planned to be added would make it obvious and remove any uncertainty.
heady storm
limber ocean
dapper coral
Use a new emoji reaction to clearly define when a suggestion is added as a "to-do"
As it stands, there is a β for seen suggestions, a π for seen suggestions that may or may not be implemented, and a π for suggestions that are already implemented. However, there is nothing for suggestions that are planned to be implemented. As a result, suggestions with π are often ambiguous as to whether the suggestion will actually be added or not. Adding a new reaction to clearly state a suggestion is planned to be added would make it obvious and remove any uncertainty.``
huh
yeah i think chetto is borked
hollow shell
Chet lame smh
heady storm
I guess I'll just sync the emotes where they should be then.
cobalt pewter
Chet has no emotes
limber ocean
reverse nitro
dapper coral
not the worst thing in the world, in any case
hollow shell
Reverse Nitro, new Discord feature:
You get paid $5 and you can't see any emojis anymore.
heady storm
Alright I decided to get off my ass.
dapper coral
yaey
hollow shell
epic
dapper coral
it is gud
heady storm
Gonna be honest the quote looked appealing.
cobalt pewter
Pogger
dapper coral
and on today's episode of "Why is Discord Garbage?"
sweet oar
Why was horror and marked removed?
sweet oar
How is dr going to be reduced then
glass sentinel
cursed flames
cobalt pewter
Only enemies can no longer inflict marked
sweet oar
Hmm
cobalt pewter
Stuff like Lunic Eye should still be able to
sweet oar
Doesnt that make everything overall easier?
cobalt pewter
Β―\_(γ)_/Β―
cobalt pewter
But if you wanna suggest smth about it, wait until the patch drops
sweet oar
Most of the changelogs have been making rev+ easier
cobalt pewter
Trying to suggest smth off something purely only on #changelogs is
limber ocean
yeah, I think that's a don't
cobalt pewter
Ye it can work
ashen warren
Statigel Mask: 10% increased rogue damage and 33% chance to not consume thrown items
If this isn't spam then idk what is.
unreal viper
No
That would not work because the decreased attack speed is in the breastplate
And wouldn't fit well thematically.
ashen warren
Statigel doesn't reduce attack speed?
unreal viper
Not responding to you, sorry.
ashen warren
Ah. But yeah, that's literally a spammy armor set.
unreal viper
No?
ashen warren
33% (1 in 3) chance to not consume thrown items.
That's spammy. What do you want instead? Increased use time by x%?
fossil finch
Statigel doesn't count
Not early hardmode
unreal viper
That is what I want, myes.
fossil finch
Add option
Option good
ashen warren
Giving rogues a way to spam would make them busted.
unreal viper
Titan heart also decreases the chance to consume by 45%, higher than statigel.
ashen warren
Beenades can already be used to melt a whole shit ton of bosses.
clever raft
You have a typo in your suggestion
It says "aqequite" instead of "adequate"
fossil finch
Beenades aren't rogue
ashen warren
They're not? How odd.
unreal viper
I believe it is to discourage using thrower weapons.
fossil finch
so beenades
ashen warren
Well, regardless, rogue being buffed pre-Hardmode..
Genuinely why?
There are no good reasons for that. Rogues don't struggle pre-Hardmode.
They don't struggle with damage, nor are they difficult to use.
unreal viper
To give armor variety and distinction between playstyles.
ashen warren
You can't give armor variety if it means ''buff the shit out of rogue''.
unreal viper
It doesn't have to mean that.
ashen warren
You'd either have to balance it by making the set really bad or nerf rogue weapons in general.
cobalt pewter
What
fossil finch
How is adding a spam armor buffing the shit out of rogue?
unreal viper
All it has to do is be better than statigel at spamming.
fossil finch
Most of rogue is already spamming anyways
ashen warren
So why would you buff rogue then?
Why would you buff rogue by giving them an armor that encourages spam if most of rogue is already spamming anyways?
cobalt pewter
Variety β buff
fossil finch
yes
What i mean
unreal viper
Feedza, how meta is stealth early hm?
cobalt pewter
You're also saying that adding rogue weapons post scal would """buff the shit outta rogue"""
unreal viper
you would know the answer 
fossil finch
It's that you can buff rogue by adding spamming variaty as if rogue wasn't spammy more that stealthy already
cobalt pewter
But it's the only option
ashen warren
''Most of rogue is already spamming anyways''. Rogue isn't a class that suffers pre-HM.
It's one of the better classes, actually.
cobalt pewter
Feedza, how meta is stealth early hm?
My man.
unreal viper
Armors are kinda different than accs, I won't deny that adding a new one would make rogue better.
ashen warren
Giving it a dedicated ''spam armor'' would be a buff.
fossil finch
But this sugg does not focus in phmode???
cobalt pewter
Early HM IS the turning point of stealth
Titan Heart armor, Ruin Medallion and, mfn Skyfin Bomber
fossil finch
And also is, not a spam armor
ashen warren
Why would you want two sets of armors? I read that as pre-HM, so now I'm even more confused.
unreal viper
Not if you spam due to decreased attack speed.
fossil finch
But a stealth focused one
ashen warren
Why would you want a redundant set of armor?
focused on spamming as a counterpart to titan heart.
fossil finch
It's not redundant if its exactly opposite to the current option?
unreal viper
It's not redundant due to having a much different specialization to make it distinct.
ashen warren
How is it the exact opposite? Titan Heart gives increased rogue damage, velocity, knockback, firing speed and a chance to not consume rogue items.
That's spammy.
unreal viper
Lowers shoot speed my dude.
ashen warren
That's encouraging a spammy playstyle.
unreal viper
ashen warren
15% decrease, not increase, my bad. Still, it's not a huge difference, especially since most rogue items in general have a fast use time.
I absolutely do not understand this change and suggestion at all. It seems incredibly redundant.
Anyways, it's getting late, so I'm gonna go to bed.
unreal viper
Have a good night.
hollow shell
Yeah I think he just
is using VeinMiner without realizing it
which is ironic because he mentions VeinMiner in his sugg
clever raft
@violet minnow if you need proof
violet minnow
no, i definitely remember checking that vein miner was off before posting that
hollow shell
Does it behave exactly like veinminer, i.e you break one block and then the breakage spreads to others?
radiant meadow
A video would help
hollow shell
It would
violet minnow
your right it is vein miner, i just cant make it not mine that
like i have keybinds to tell vein miner to mine stuff or to not mine stuff and i just cant turn it off
that sucks
hollow shell
Damn
Well at least we got that cleared up
You could try looking into your config files and removing Sea Prism from the whitelist directly
violet minnow
did that and it was just like nah i dont think to and still vein mined it anyways
hollow shell
wow
river glen
why
who thought holem is a joke
cmon
golem
death mode golem is strong against unprepared people
its only easy if u make a shit ton of prep
golden narwhal
"lack of maneuverability"
You can circle death (maybe rev) golem post head 
river glen
yeah
circling does work
because he litterally is to slow
well
in my sense
Piranha Gun can notoriously just annihilate him and prevent his fists from attacking at all.
WHAT
pirhana gun
out of all things
maybe in 1.4 but def not in 1.3.5
hollow shell
(I was debating on whether or not to embed the gif)
dapper coral
ah
heady storm
dapper coral
god why is that gif so good
hollow shell
cuz MGR
civic pond
sand umbra
it's the most satisfyin' thing
ashen warren
anything MGR is good
ashen warren
hi I think it would be cool if we could remove or reduce the intensity of the fog in the astral infection
comparison between fog and no fog, I use the retro lighting in the settings to remove the fog and in my opinion the astral infection looks better without fog
it is just more vibrant
cobalt pewter
The fog is removed when Deus is defeated iirc
ashen warren
why so specific
near shuttle
ho yeah, it looks so much better without the fog.
crude geode
@heady storm Suggestion should be in voting.
heady storm
Is a bluecheck should I not be mistaken?
crude geode
Yeah
heady storm
crude geode
ashen warren
@golden narwhal HIS lack of maneuverability.
You just circle him and it's gg.
@river glen Piranha Gun bools on Golem.
sturdy geyser
Levi's new sprite is fine
quick relic
It's great
fringe cloak
Hes not talking about the sprite but size
sturdy geyser
i know
tawny garden
BuT bIgGeR iS bEtTeR
quick relic
No
tawny garden
ashen warren
It's already really big.
sturdy geyser
old levi was really fucking annoying to dodge
tawny garden
yes
ashen warren
How much bigger is it supposed to be?
tawny garden
why
crude geode
^
crude geode
Because she could cover your entire screen?
quick relic
This leviathan isn't as much of a threat
tawny garden
also harder != better
fossil finch
New levi is better lmao
radiant meadow
okay so first of all, animating levi was already asinine and time consuming
it's not simple to just "make a new sprite"
second of all, upping the npc.scale would just look really bad
zenith hazel
then why not ask to make her harder instead of bigger
fossil finch
She has two attacks, yes, but making her bigger isn't making her figth better
crude geode
I might mention the fact that Levi is HALF of the fight. Itβs Anahita and Levi, not Leviathan.
quick relic
Anahita is harder
ashen warren
I still think Golem should be buffed.
crude geode
Irrelevant.
quick relic
Anahita is good but levi is....
ashen warren
Golem is unbelievably easy to fight.
crude geode
Ok, but thereβs a different discussion going on.
sturdy geyser
You still haven't explained why old Levi is better.
quick relic
I'm also fairly sure that they nerfed levi's health
ashen warren
do you want the hitbox to be bigger?
fossil finch
Then make the sugg "buff levi"
Not "make her bigger"
ashen warren
Yeah but we never discussed mine so I'm gonna be annoying
fossil finch
People did discuss yours
Check above
sturdy geyser
crude geode
How is the fight actively worse from the size of Levi being lowered?
ashen warren
It was barely a discussion, and I genuinely think it's worthy of a bigger discussion because Golem really needs to get buffed.
zenith hazel
that's because the fight got reworked, and the fight was made longer when before the levi hp nerf
the new attacks unintentionally dragged out the fight
crude geode
If a suggestion is valid it doesnβt really need a discussion ketamin.
gray nebula
make leviathan bigger yes
quick relic
Anahita also doesn't fight with levi until the very end
gray nebula
she's litterally using a 1x1 sprite
fossil finch
The fight is actively worse when the size of levi is your fucking screen
tawny garden
β
crude geode
Anahita also doesn't fight with levi until the very end
@quick relic 40% is not βthe very endβ
gray nebula
smh animating a gigantic sprite only for the one that ends up getting used to be 4x smaller
sturdy geyser
Still haven't explained why the old fight is better.
crude geode
^
ashen warren
@crude geode I believe it's a valid discussion but it's always worth to discuss everything because not everyone is going to share your opinion.
tawny garden
smh animating a gigantic sprite only for the one that ends up getting used to be 4x smaller
wait really, it's a 1x1 and not a 2x2?
gray nebula
it's a 1x1
tawny garden
wiki trivia moment
quick relic
She used to fight with levi through out the entire fight which made her harder
gray nebula
ashen warren
The correct answer is that Levi is perfectly sized.
crude geode
She didnβt tho, unless you were on Deathmode.
fossil finch
She used to be a 50% spawn afaik
cobalt pewter
Dmode had the both spawn at the same time pre rework
zenith hazel
...that's incredibly subjective
old siren fought with levi throughout the fight yes, but she had different attacks then
anahita fights alongside levi at the end, but she also has newer attacks
sturdy geyser
old levi/siren was an annoying clusterfuck
zenith hazel
so you can't exactly determine which one is harder
crude geode
^
cobalt pewter
Yeah Anahita definitely feels better to be fought by herself now
zenith hazel
they're 2 different bars to compare
sturdy geyser
the new fight might be easier, but its better designed
cobalt pewter
Instead of relying on levi
quick relic
Anahita is a much better fight than Siren
crude geode
Whatβs your argument here?
fossil finch
That's true
Levi has two attacks and spawns shits
However, buffing her size would not help with that in any way
fossil finch
She had the same 2 attacks afaik
crude geode
I mean, thatβs kinda boomer logic tbh.
fossil finch
Only real difference was the size, a bullshit one that allowed for really cheap hits
crude geode
Personally, Leviβs summons are actually pretty threatening when compared with say, Cryogen. At least thatβs how Iβve felt.
sturdy geyser
okay so like why does levi have boulders of all things?
jovial spire
Reasons.
crude geode
Meteor*
fossil finch
Dunno
She spits her fucking meal at you
crude geode
Thereβs reasons for it.
I canβt remember but I tried to make a suggestion about it b4
Got shutdown Bc reasons such as meteors land in the ocean
jovial spire
Anyways
crude geode
Yes
Making Levi bigger is just...not really reasonable.
It makes it so her charges are react early enough to it or take damage
Iβm gonna put this here, @ashen warren Saying that one weapon trivializes a boss is not a new concept. see also any piercing weapon and any worm boss. I doubt that it actually even trivializes death mode golem or rev golem. You also have to take into account that some people will have very small golem arenas, and that can cause a LOT of pain if Golemβs mobility is amped up.
Also saying that Bc it has a large hitbox and low mobility that itβs a free boss is...confusing to say the least. Ravager is considered a tough boss, and it also has a large hitbox and low mobility.
jovial spire
Golem almost always kicks my ass
crude geode
Same, in Deathmode at least.
jovial spire
Usually the boss I die the most to nowadays in a playthrough
ashen warren
Besides Piranha Gun, Golem is still outrageously easy for being an post-Plantera boss.
jovial spire
yeah i usually play deathmode
crude geode
What mode do you play?
ashen warren
Revengeance Mode, as does most people.
jovial spire
in rev golem is still fairly hard imo but not nearly as hard as on death
crude geode
Yeah
ashen warren
Having to play Death Mode just to have Golem be difficult is a bad argument to present.
''Just pick Death Mode and he'll be difficult.''
ashen warren
Well, I don't. That's why I want him buffed.
frail mantle
after the Rev+ reworks i think i've died to Golem at least once every playthrough
crude geode
(This is like the reverse of βcanβt beat boss, pls nerfβ)
Have you fought Golem in an arena where he takes up a third of the space?
ashen warren
It is, but what am I supposed to say? ''Oh Celesto struggles against Golem? Nerf it.''
jovial spire
I never said to nerf it
ashen warren
And Golem doesn't really take up ''a third of the space''. He's not that big at all.
ashen warren
My issue with Golem is that you can just choose to circle him until he just dies.
And there are many weapons that can deal with his hands in a quick manner, making the fight all the more trivial.
jovial spire
you can do that with 75% of bosses
tawny garden
Iβve had temple setups where he took up a third of the space
you can fight him outside though
jovial spire
yes, where be becomes even harder
crude geode
^
tawny garden
...really doesn't
ashen warren
The problem with those 75% of bosses is that they are more mobile and have bigger attacks that present a tougher challenge.
tawny garden
at least it didn't feel like he became harder
jovial spire
tougher challenge is subjective
fossil finch
Yeah but mate
Here your sugg is not for you
It's for the people that are gonna read and vote
And if it doesn't convice people, your sugg will never pass
That is what this channel discussions are about
Making sugg appealing to people
after all, it doesn't matter if your sugg is ok, it won't reach devs if people don't vote it
ashen warren
He does become harder, at least mechanically. He's perma-enraged.
jovial spire
more mobile yeah, golem isnt a very mobile boss
but to compensate for that he can hit like a truck
ashen warren
If he can hit you to begin with.
jovial spire
Which he definity can in phase 2
fossil finch
Just cuz you find it hard, doesn't mean everyone will say yes and vote it
Same happens with nerfs suggs
ashen warren
Yes and I get that, you have no reason to state the obvious.
Just because you find Empress of Light to be easy, for example, doesn't mean everyone else will agree with you.
jovial spire
exactly
ashen warren
These ''just because x doesn't mean everyone else will agree'' are a massive waste of time to write and read.
jovial spire
and im just saying that i dont agree with you
jovial spire
and telling you why
ashen warren
And that's why I'm trying to make my point @jovial spire.
fossil finch
And your sugg doesn't convince me
ashen warren
And Enderpikmin, kindly, stop writing for a minute.
cobalt pewter
crude geode
Giving some tangible examples of golem being easier, such as...killtimes compared to other similar bosses would be a good idea, Ketamin.
fossil finch
For me golem is a fairly challenging battle that's perfectly fine as it is
ashen warren
I can't really talk when you're just mouthbreathing. Literally all of this has the same energy as..
''Ice is cold''.
fossil finch
Doesn't mean it can't improve
Then actually edit your sugg to have some reason?
More than something thay applies for almost every single boss?
ashen warren
You are accomplishing nothing at all by spouting out shit like ''oh well not everyone will agree and you have to explain further''
Which I've been trying to do.
fossil finch
But people won't read this channel
ashen warren
And I'm trying to elaborate on that.
fossil finch
They are only reading your sugg
ashen warren
@fossil finch Probably because you've filled the entire chat with actual useless bullshit that's not helping the discussion.
jovial spire
that also sees that suggestion
fossil finch
Lmao
ashen warren
So, for the time being, I'll block you until I've finished writing.
Christ. Anyways, as I was saying.
fossil finch
Ehm no
People really don't read this channel when they see suggs
Also, no need to use hard words cuz yes
jovial spire
people usually dont check this chat at all when looking at suggestions
crude geode
^
frail mantle
ermin you don't need to be aggressive just because Ender disagrees with you
jovial spire
I usually dont
ashen warren
I'm not aggressive because he disagrees.
I'm aggressive because he's talking without saying anything.
And by that, I mean he's wasting everyone's time by writing things that have no meaning at all.
fossil finch
However people can just not read my shit if it's so shitty?
ashen warren
They don't contribute to the discussion and just serve to waste my time when I could be defending myself and make a case for Golem.
jovial spire
He's saying the same things because you arn't even listening
frail mantle
^
crude geode
^
frail mantle
and if you are listening, it doesn't seem like it
ashen warren
''hurr not everyone will agree and you need to explain further'' which I am trying to do.
fossil finch
I'm saying that you need to put your reasons in your sugg
fossil finch
But you are saying them here
ashen warren
Anyways, I'm not unblocking him until I'm done with this discussion.
jovial spire
in your suggestion
fossil finch
Not in your sugg
hollow shell
@quick relic "Maybe make Anahita fight Levi throughout the entire fight as well"
Phrasing.
jovial spire
So people will actually see your reason
ashen warren
So kindly let me explain now.
hollow shell
Also what the fuck is going on here
jovial spire
People wont see your reasoning here before they go to vote for your suggestion, or not vote for it.
fossil finch
Don't explain it to us smh
We told you
We aren't the ones you need to explain this to
jovial spire
I've been trying to tell you this for 10 minutes now.
ashen warren
@jovial spireo
You could also let me finish what I'm about to write so we could have the discussion first.
crude geode
(Annoyed people rover. Mainly someone whoβs not really here for anything besides an echo chamber imo)
ashen warren
Otherwise, this has been a huge waste of time for everyone.
jovial spire
Then why not finish
its not like its an irl convo
you aint gonna be talking over anyone
cobalt pewter
Me waiting for rover to drop a line so good it can be taken outta context
Either way
ashen warren
Well you're constantly talking to me so I obviously have to reply first now don't I?
jovial spire
No.
crude geode
No.
tawny garden
this channel became 
crude geode
If someone tells me to change something about my suggestion/I should do something about it, I focus on that, and that alone and then get more feedback.
frail mantle
(philo please don't)
crude geode
^
jovial spire
Yeah, dont
ashen warren
The issues with Golem are:
-
He is very slow, and doesn't have many ways to compensate for that. He's not particularly big, and as such doesn't occupy a large enough area for circling to not be the optimal easy strat.
-
His hands are a main source of his overall damage output, but can be dealt with rather easily, resulting in a fairly trivial fight overall.
-
Speaking of which, many of his attacks are very easily telegraphed and Golem is not a boss that changed much from Vanilla to Calamity, aside from having more HP and him getting his own arena. People already familiar to Golem should have no issues fighting him again for the umpteenth time, since (as far as I know) he didn't get any new attacks to compensate and keep people on their toes.
mossy badge
but he does
crude geode
Put that in your sugg.
mossy badge
- he has lazers and fiah balls
frail mantle
i wouldn't say Golem "is not a boss that changed much from Vanilla to Calamity"
mossy badge
^
ashen warren
I've fought Golem in rev.
jovial spire
yeah
jovial spire
like how his head pops off and circles around you
frail mantle
i'm pretty sure i remember his head going sicko mode, firing Diabolist projectiles and circling you
mossy badge
probably cuz im shit tho
ashen warren
It doesn't circle around you, but it stays up and prevents you from circling around and around that way.
crude geode
Look at all these changes!
frail mantle
wait when was the last time you fought Golem Ermin
jovial spire
yeah
ashen warren
Once his head pops up, you can just pass between his body and his head.
mossy badge
lasers
jovial spire
because it 100% circles around you in rev
ashen warren
Lasers that aren't particularly hard to dodge.
And his hands are, by that point for me, dealt with.
crude geode
Hey Ketamin, when was the last time you fought Golem in Rev
mossy badge
^'
ashen warren
Probably last time I played Calamity: in June.
frail mantle
right now it sounds like you're talking about pre-Rev+ Boss Rework Golem
cobalt pewter
june
crude geode
...
mossy badge
you might not remember correctly
cobalt pewter
You might wanna play the mod in its current state beforehand
crude geode
Iβm not that much of a boomer and I still have trouble with stuff
radiant meadow
You should make suggestions based on your current experiences, not something from months ago.
mossy badge
and there were almost certainly changes
frail mantle
^
radiant meadow
The mod is always changing.
crude geode
Yeah
ashen warren
Did Golem get a massive mega rework from June to October?
crude geode
I mean did he not? You donβt know, do you?
ashen warren
Last time I played against him, his head popped off and prevented me from circling around him over and over.
By that point, I hopped between his head and his body.
radiant meadow
Whether he was reworked or not, it's a bad practice.
crude geode
^
ashen warren
πΏ
π
So this is Golem.
mossy badge
lmao
tawny garden
frail mantle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0hXQKUp_CE is this what Golem was like when you last played
tawny garden
well, play again
ashen warren
Head was following me, but not as fast as I'd like it to.
crude geode
Hereβs an idea.
jovial spire
top left of the screen, top right of the screen, bottom right of the screen, or bottom left of the screen
rotates in the direction
crude geode
Go in game, grab appropriate gear, and fight rev golem. Then come back and make sure your arguments are still valid.
jovial spire
constantly firing lasers and diabloist projetiles
crude geode
With the new, current version of golem.
ashen warren
Might take a week first, as I don't have my current character anymore.
frail mantle
i just grabbed the first one i could find
cobalt pewter
Cheat sheet
jovial spire
just cheatsheet stuff in
mossy badge
make one
tawny garden
cheat sheet
crude geode
Just use cheat sheet
jovial spire
and fight him
mossy badge
cheatsheet
ashen warren
Oh yeah. Right, I'll do that.
crude geode
does this sugg deserve β
tawny garden
no
ashen warren
Question, when did he get Diabolist projectiles? Because he sure as hell didn't have them in June-July when I played.
And if he did, I was apparently not hit by them.
crude geode
mossy badge
idk tho
tawny garden
it might have outdated info, but
it's too broad to warrant aβ
frail mantle
Rev+ reworks apparently happened in August 2019
ashen warren
Well it's 2020 now.
tawny garden
are you sure
jovial spire
yes, but they still get changes
ashen warren
And I'd probably say June 2019 and not just June if I was talking about another year.
frail mantle
Golem got the Diabolist projectiles in August 2019, and the only AI change he's gotten since that is this
134 - Death Mode Golem head can fire lasers from the start of the fight and fires more often as HP decreases. - Done```Well I didn't play June 2019.
craggy stratus
maybe check the changelog in wiki too
rose jewel
You should probably try them out before you suggest anything
ashen warren
I played June this year. And unless I'm stupid, it's 2020.
craggy stratus
#changelogs doesnt cover it all
crude geode
Change logs does indeed not
tawny garden
also gear changes
crude geode
#changelogs message
My favorite example of change logs
hollow shell
It's possible you had an outdated version when you played in June
crude geode
^^^^^^
ashen warren
I didn't.
frail mantle
i mean the changelog announcing Golem's Rev rework was just Golem in Rev+. That is all.
radiant meadow
Someone had a year old version yesterday and experienced unloaded lore items upon updating so the possibility is very real
tawny garden
wow
crude geode
I donβt mind change logs being short like that, itβs why we have the wiki after all. But using change logs....isnβt always reliable.
tawny garden
wasn't
ashen warren
Meant outdated.
crude geode
ashen warren
Last time I fought it, the head followed me, as I kept jumping back and forth, left and right.
crude geode
Rover using wiki knowledge pog
ashen warren
So if I went right, it would go right. If I went left, it would go left.
radiant meadow
Still though, like I said earlier, whether you were outdated or not, it's bad practice to make suggestions based on something you experienced months ago
ashen warren
Did Golem get big changes from June to October?
hollow shell
That's not the point
tawny garden
don't be lazy
ashen warren
So it didn't.
hollow shell
and
ashen warren
What's the point then?
hollow shell
apparently it did get big changes before June
and you didn't see them anyway
That line was added in September of 2019, by the way
crude geode
arguing with the head sugg person and practically everyone is not really the best idea Ketamin
hollow shell
Go do the fight right now(ish, whenever you get the chance), with current version
and see how hard it is
ashen warren
The head sugg person isn't even here. Rover is the smol sugg person.
hollow shell
You've got a point.
radiant meadow
Regardless of who someone is, you should listen to their feedback.
crude geode
^
hollow shell
You can go to https://calamitymod.gamepedia.com/Guide:Class_setups to see which gear is good around Golem
when you set your self up presumably with Cheat Sheet
crude geode
(More like Calamity isnβt in Zenith-)
ashen warren
Yeah yeah I get it. I'll go ahead and kill him. Not right now though, gotta finish up my homework.
crude geode
Iβve been surprised Iβve been getting so many good suggestions, considering itβs been at least a month since Iβve played
ashen warren
Should I go magic?
radiant meadow
up to you
hollow shell
Anything should be fine
Rogue might be a bit more technical if you haven't done it before
and summoner tends to be funky
so
The other three classes would be fairest but tbh it doesn't matter a whole lot
crude geode
Pretty much yeah.
hollow shell
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
tawny garden
lol you might see that I'm avoiding saying facts because the last time I actually played was like 10 months ago or smth 
hollow shell
@strange peak no, read the Suggestion Don'ts doc in pins
cobalt pewter
Bruhmentum
radiant meadow
br
tawny garden
Well
dapper coral
hm
my only complaint about this one is "why calamity"
this could easily be its own QoL mod
clever raft
Good point
But I don't really know how to do that
or where else to suggest it
cobalt pewter
make a mod outta it
cobalt pewter
hollow shell
(the illustrations were technically made by Epsilon)
wait do they go by a different name now
cobalt pewter
rip
hollow shell
are they still around
cobalt pewter
Na
hollow shell
Damn
dapper coral
epsilon is here
cobalt pewter
Eps is still here
hollow shell
o
dapper coral
they just aren't in the public eye as much
cobalt pewter
smh
tawny garden
I thought they is still a mod
dapper coral
they are
cobalt pewter
Oh ye I didn't read it
Tom did mention eps making that
My bad for the ping tom
tawny garden
Just replace that with an epsilon ping and then send a ping message and immediately delete it
cobalt pewter
ghost ping bad
sand umbra
AE
tawny garden
π»
clever raft
my only complaint about this one is "why calamity"
@dapper coral because the problem doesn't exist in vanilla
tawny garden
Why doesn't it?
cobalt pewter
And is Calamity really needed to fix it?
Like
A single, standalone qol mod should suffice
river glen
whats the topic
tawny garden
Suggs
river glen
on what
hollow shell
Imagine using The Guide
tawny garden
Read the list smh
hollow shell
Download Recipe Browser
sand umbra
Guide listing things by order of crafting station
river glen
guide
sand umbra
......
/hastily scribbles down notes
cobalt pewter
Between a small qol sugg related to vanilla that should be added to Calamity
And me pinging wrong people
tawny garden
Who made the browser btw?
river glen
if u cant use it, u can always use the wiki
cobalt pewter
......
/hastily scribbles down notes
hollow shell
Jopo I think?
cobalt pewter
Who made the beiwser btw?
Isn't it jopo?
tawny garden
Ye I think
Suggest to him to replace the guide's crafting thing with the recipe browser
river glen
but then recipe broswe
cobalt pewter
if u cant use it, u can always use the wiki
This, I think, is one other big problem about vanilla
tawny garden
in tModLoader
dapper coral
because the problem doesn't exist in vanilla
even if it doesn't exist in vanilla, i'm sure it exists for more mods than just calamity, it's still not calamity-specific
tawny garden
Good thing that we make a wiki
Several of them
Where would everyone be without is
clever raft
Yeah but that's not in-game
The wiki doesn't tell me what I can make with a snow block
tawny garden
Incorporate the wiki into the game then
The wiki doesn't tell me what I can make with a snow block
You can make a lot of B L A N K with it
clever raft
oh
radiant meadow
I have a strong feeling that reorganizing how the Guide's crafting panel works would be an inordinate amount of work with little pay off.
tawny garden
Especially because the recipe browser exists
dapper coral
likely so
tepid root
clever raft
I think I'll just delete my suggestion
I downloaded recipe browser
saw it can sort by price
close enough
hollow shell
There's also a tab on the side which allows you to filter by each station
clever raft
Oh, yeah, thanks
reading its instructions now
wooden wedge
@solar shadow what do you mean by this
solar shadow
@wooden wedge like corrupt/crimson snow or jungle grass variants
wooden wedge
please add that to your sugg then
and seperate your title and reason with shift + enter
crude geode
You do need some reasoning. Also, Iβm pretty sure this would be hell to code/deal with.
gray nebula
just wait for slr to release (lol)
dapper coral
wait hold on
hollow shell
There is already Corrupt and Crimson ice Evilrymon
dapper coral
so you're saying there should be a) a corrupt/crimson jungle, and b) more evilified snow?
hollow shell
Also you need to add a reason to your suggestion
sand umbra
evil jungles?
dapper coral
this sounds like a whole lot of effort
sand umbra
something something grand-scale proposal
crude geode
^
dapper coral
mmhmm
hollow sierra
Do you think it would be weird if slime god dropped murky sludge
wooden wedge
weren't something like evil jungles added in 1.4 or am I misremembering something
sand umbra
no
crude geode
No
dapper coral
pretty sure no
wooden wedge
(evil mud??)
sand umbra
(no??)
crude geode
(that would require Relogic to realize corrupting jungles is stupid)
dapper coral
that's what iban was sayin, ye
sand umbra
they actually did realize that
dapper coral
apparently slr does that
sand umbra
in 1.4.1, worldgen was changed so that the evils will make it a point to steer clear of the jungle on initial generation
wooden wedge
I didn't get the acronym
crude geode
(Same)
But then canβt it just spread from the hardmode burst?
hollow shell
@solar shadow I don't know what you're doing to space these
but you should be using Shift+Enter
wooden wedge
I already said to use shift enter,,,,
solar shadow
never knew that shift+enter existed
hollow shell
yeah
solar shadow
fixed it now i think
crude geode
Tbh like Thomas said, this would be a grand scale rework of how corruption and crimson interact with the jungle.
hollow shell
You did fix it yeah
solar shadow
but i am not suggesting evil muds, but i am suggesting evil jungle GRASS/ snow
wooden wedge
please say that in your title
hollow shell
- evil Ice already exists and turns the biome into its respective evil
- It's not really our place to add that kind of stuff? I mean, we can, but your reason should be stronger
solar shadow
i know ice can be but it can just make your snow biomes immune due to there being no evil snow
oh ok rover thx
for responding
crude geode
ngl in a vacuum, evil ice just sounds. REALLY silly. Watch out for that ice itβs gonna get you
I mean...I feel like messing with world corruption is just. guaranteed to be screwed up.
hollow shell
There are multiple SCPs which are "evil ice" and some of em are pretty scary
river glen
what was
that suggestion
counterparts
to already evil biomes
u know how much
is gonna have to go into it
hollow shell
I mean
Theoretically it wouldn't be that hard to do as long as we IL edit the spreading code
river glen
ur gona have to make a boss
hollow shell
But like yeah that would be.. a new concept that we'd need to flesh out
river glen
for th evil biome
hollow shell
nnnnnot necessarily
dapper coral
are you saying that the evil jungle would have to have a boss? because... no, it wouldn't
same with snow/ice biome
hollow shell
This new suggestion seems fine
dapper coral
sure
i'm a tad surprised that you didn't get any sharks even with battle/water candles but that could be left up to RNG
swift wharf
dapper coral
that's true
cobalt pewter
They're still relatively rare
dapper coral
^
plus arid artifact kinda irritating to obtain sometimes
since you either have to a) do a sandstorm or b) find an earth elemental
river glen
@granite yacht why not just make it so he spawns much more often in hardmode
and he spawns much less often
when u defeat him once
or smtn like that
granite yacht
tawny garden
Theoretically it wouldn't be that hard to do as long as we IL edit the spreading code
That sentence is kinda self-contradicting
sand umbra
and here we come to yet another discussion of the problems with consumable items that can only be obtained once
i.e. the reason the RE trio of guns suck
craggy stratus
kinda weird for purified jam or anything resource limiting to exist
sand umbra
don't worry, your sugg is valid
tawny garden
i.e. the reason the RE trio of guns suck
There are 5 of these, no
dapper coral
yea
sand umbra
2 of them are just upgrades to the first one
dapper coral
i mean, i get why they're limited
but i agree that it does limit the ability of experimentation
sand umbra
anywho Purified Jam is like the RE guns in that it's too much of a get-out-of-jail-free card to use on just anything but too limited to want to use
hollow sierra
You also kinda need the foresight to use the jam before you take the hit whereas healing pots are in retaliation to taking damage
tawny garden
Also limits in a sandbox is kinda weird
sand umbra
Terraria isn't a sandbox
it is an RPG with sandbox elements
this is an important distinction to be making
tawny garden
Well, fair
gusty scarab
yeah i'm too scared to use mine
like
what if i waste it and lose the fight
or what if i use it but need it for a later, harder one
hollow sierra
It seems to me the jam itself is already pretty balanced, need the skill and game knowledge to know to know when you're gonna be hit, actually use it before said hit, and then get more value out of it than you would have a (greater) healing potion
half duration in death mode too
sand umbra
so what happens if you use the jam and then lose anyway
hollow sierra
then you cry because you're out of jam
sand umbra
gusty scarab
and then if you want to get more you have to
sand umbra
this is why the RE guns suck and it's why Purified Jam sucks
you're too damn scared to use it proper because it's so limited
tawny garden
For me the thing with the Purified Jam
I stash the 8 of these I got into a chest for "The Future"
And then I never use them
hollow sierra
could you elaborate on what a RE gun is
sand umbra
Magnum (+ its upgrades, Lightning Hawk and Elephant Killer), Bazooka, and Hydra
gusty scarab
make a new world, place equips in the world, make a new character, fight the SG, put the jam back, join on your old character
hollow sierra
oh those
i see your point, you either have them as ways to get a few freebie kills, or you have an unlimited supply and need to balance everything around them existing
sand umbra
basically they have the same problem Purified Jam does
hollow sierra
there's no good choice
sand umbra
the ammunition is so limited that you're scared to ever use it because "what if I need it more for a later fight"
and then by the time you're like "okay maybe I can use this just this once"
oops you're done the game
tawny garden
make a new world, place equips in the world, make a new character, fight the SG, put the jam back, join on your old character
And then use cheat sheet when it finally gets too tedious
hollow sierra
Pretty much
tawny garden
Cause like
Everyone who needs tons of potions just cheat them in
Unless they're out of their mind
hollow sierra
But i think unlike the guns which are just a "why not use them" the jam as i explained above is a pretty difficult choice and a pretty high skill item to use correctly
gusty scarab
i use alchnpc with luiafk
hollow sierra
i really enjoy how the main planetoid loot lets you start a herb farm early
tawny garden
But that option disappeared
gusty scarab
would that end up in infinite invincibility
tawny garden
No cuz
You can't use it as soon as the invincibility period runs out
It inflicts potion sickness for 30 seconds
hollow sierra
also, other mods shouldn't be a consideration in balancing things in calamity
radiant meadow
10 seconds in rev-
hollow sierra
10 normally, 5 in death
radiant meadow
5 seconds in death