#suggestions-discussion
quasi flume
cobalt pewter
Tunnel was EXACTLY how you cheesed .001 polter
quasi flume
yep, you're right
cobalt pewter
Hence why I just didn't bother with the boss and butchered it
quasi flume
when the boss is unfair you need to seek for the unfair solutions
cobalt pewter
I feel like area limitations like provi can definitely be used for polter
dry latch
^^ no one would go through absurd lengths to cheese a boss if fighting it normally was the easier alternative
cobalt pewter
Also rod 
signal glade
i mean the reward is there but cheesing does not mean your bad its either the fight was hard to begin with or just plain your tired of the boss
cobalt pewter
Though that's another concern
Byeah
You're clearly driving polter off screen like 80% of the time
quasi flume
this was also a problem with the old ravager's first phase
the boss was absurdly fast and all you had to do is somehow outrun him
and now they fixed it and he just despawns every time you try to hold him off screen
cobalt pewter
Methinks .003 rav is much more lenient now
quasi flume
yep, he is a good boi now
cobalt pewter
The damage of everything got tanked, rav itself can only deal contact shortly before slam, slam itself being more lenient on targeting now
But yeah, I feel like polter is, and should be, balanced around the limited space of dungeon, while also punishing those who'd keep them off screen all the time
signal glade
thank god they removed the nukes in phase 2
golden narwhal
With the random factor in the sugg, does that just mean 'the clone can come from any direction, not being dependant on where polter is', or...
cobalt pewter
Probably polter itself can dash from the left while the clone can dash from the top
Kinda like that ig
So not completely synced
but the sync in current p3 dash is just an illusion from the lack of dashing points
golden narwhal
Should prolly be worded differently then if that's the case, since 'random' doesn't feel like quite the word to describe it
@quasi flume stuff above (or clarify on what it is if the above isn't what you meant, ig)
quasi flume
Yeah I mentioned above that I'm pretty bad at English
golden narwhal
signal glade
wait so its a cross attack from both directions?
quasi flume
By "random" I mean random sides, but they still dash simultaneously
golden narwhal
Clarify it to 'have the clone dash from a random side' or smth like that
quasi flume
oh right
tawny garden
TheAlchemist's sugg kinda bothers me
serene fox
same
cobalt pewter
P sure Rover alr pinged the person to change it
dense ferry
lol
crystal iron
Idk if this is good enough for a Sugg so I'm Just gonn ask
Why is poltherghast blue
And not
Pink
Even the weapons he drops are pink and black
But he's
Blue?
Sorry if I sound aggressive
cobalt pewter
I already suggested that
crystal iron
Oh
cobalt pewter
Lemme get rover's response
frail mantle
dungeon spirits are mostly Ectoplasm spirits, with a few stronger Phantom spirits made of Phantoplasm
crystal iron
Ye but everything that makes poltherghast is pink
Phantoplasm
The boss summon
The drops
cobalt pewter
Polterghast consumes and assimilates souls
There are a lot of weak blue Dungeon Spirit souls, and a few powerful pink Phantom Spirit souls
So Polter is mostly blue with some vital parts being pink (his heart), and all his weps and items are pink cuz they pertain to the new Post-ML Phantom Spirit dungeon stuff, being the more powerful of the two spirits
frail mantle
polter's drops can be seen as being made out of the stronger phantoplasmic parts of Polterghast, while the boss is mostly blue
cobalt pewter
Ah rip
ashen warren
polter's drops can be seen as being made out of the stronger phantoplasmic parts of Polterghast, while the boss is mostly blue
yeah
whole sedge
It's ectoplasm but cooler
sleek turret
no.
you cannot apply the concept of "cool" to phantoplasm, because maybe phantoplasm is something... warm/hot I guess? 
fossil finch
Not using the summoner weapon is like actually a 60% damage loss since you gain 10% more damage when holding the weapon, at least that's how it was before and afaik they haven't changed it
terse sundial
Didn't the +10% summon damage while holding a summoning wep get removed like a year ago?
terse sundial
Not that I know of
cobalt pewter
Ech I can't recall
terse sundial
I can check the source code
gusty scarab
or maybe have it not apply if your DPS is low enough?
cobalt pewter
Alright
gusty scarab
idk
as example
terse sundial
I don't see it in the .003 source, unless I skipped over it
distant gyro
it's in calplayer
terse sundial
that's where I'm looking
distant gyro
sent something in #wiki-advanced
byeha
nowhere near 80%
that's an enemy's defense/DR job for sure
terse sundial
most likely ^
cobalt pewter
At this point, I might've suggested too much stealth rogue improvements for my own good
I wanna suggest smth else, but I feel like I'd be diluting voting by now
rose jewel
you do have 3 in posting at the moment
cobalt pewter
Indeed
hot zephyr
Just make having an active summon disable non summon weapons 
slate ridge
What do you guys think of nerfing the vanilla antlion enemies? Specifically their defense. Right now I think they're way too tanky for the progression point you're likely fighting them at (pre-boss) and they're just really grindy and an unfun presence. Just compare the charger to the stormlion, not only are chargers significantly tougher (220 hp/22 def compared to 160 hp/8 def) but they are also a lot faster and do almost double damage. ||also doesn't help that you need more regular mandibles than stormlion ones to make medallions ||
hollow shell
Yeah you could suggest something about that
Be careful with your wording tho cuz one of the enemies is just called "Antlion"
north plank
Maybe like antlion group of enemies
Honestly the only ones that are an issue are chargers, those things can take a bit too many hits
Swarmers and the spitter ones aren’t as bad
tawny garden
@slate ridge you shouldn't have that strikethrough joke there
not everyone will understand that it's a joke
golden narwhal
do almost twice as much damage
Dw, stormlion makes up for that with electrified
slate ridge
even while moving, you'll only receive 24 damage from electrified which totals to 64 damage (still less than charger) and thats assuming you even get hit by them considering how slow they are
whole sedge
better idea might be having them deal a nerfed amount of damage that kind of scales with the stage of the game you're at until Fishron
halcyon sphinx
they will still be extremely annoying considering they can legitimately spawn in your house
even if they did only knockback and no damage it will would still be annoying because they are giant shark tornados that constantly spawn every like 10 seconds
whole sedge
yeah the more i look at it the more it seems like a bug/oversight to me
halcyon sphinx
someone told me to suggest it so i suggested it
golden narwhal
Doubt it'd be a bug; oversight, perhaps
halcyon sphinx
doesn't really make sense as a bug, oversight is the word
tawny garden
It might be a bug, cause stuff shouldn't be able to spawn in front of walls at all
halcyon sphinx
here you go
me and my most important npc currently died to one
and ill stop playing on this world until that hopefully gets fixed
tawny garden
whole sedge
eugh yeah uh that definitely should not happen 
copper turret
The pain you feel when the most useful npc dies and it takes them 16,000 years to come back (or they dont at all)
Say you want to make a weapon but it requires musket balls or something that is ONLY SOLD BY AN NPC.
and now you have to wait because that weapon is the only good viable weapon at your stage.
halcyon sphinx
I spent 10 hours on this giant town next to the ocean and now look at me
im in the worst predicament possible
torrential tear is nerfed in death mode too
i cant do anything
im so pissed off
ancient mirage
turn off death mode
copper turret
Get cheat sheet and move the whole house with the paint tool
You take the paint tool and it can copy an area
So you can paste it in a more friendly environment
halcyon sphinx
any OTHER idea
this town is on 3 different height levels
i cant really copy paste it anywhere
copper turret
Answer: shoebox
tawny garden
Yo, the latest sugg is good, but it's a don't
sleek turret
:boohoo:
tawny garden
Implementing interludes
dapper coral
yeah, interludes aren't supposed to be in the game and they won't be added unfortunately
copper turret
You can move the top house and put it past the merchants house
tawny garden
Darn it
halcyon sphinx
i dont know dude, i dont want to move my house i really wanted it to be next to the ocean, i guess ill just hope one of the devs sees my suggestion
tawny garden
I'm gonna break my vow and say that this sugg is good
hollow idol
making music unobtainable as the game progresses 
there's a reason t1 acid rain and yharon have recipes
robust lava
If we ignore the fact that the interludes aren't going to be put in game, I agree with YuH that you shouldn't be forced to have the music change. An item shouldn't lose some of its functionality permanently like that as you progress
tawny garden
listen on youtube/spotify/etc. smh
robust lava
You could have new interlude music boxes be available as you progress through the game, but now I'm putting too much thought into something that's clearly a don't
copper turret
What if you like the tale of a cruel world and dont want it to change
sleek turret
craft the music box of the respective theme.
copper turret
But didn't it say that the music box would change?
dapper coral
anyway @boreal sleet interludes won't be added to the game because of reasons that are in the don'ts doc in the pins
sleek turret
yeah
but maybe it would have some different name from the other music box
"Music Box (Calamity)" as example.
boreal sleet
sorry i didnt know
hollow shell
(Fuck, TheAlchemist never changed his top line)
copper turret
Removed stuff wont be in the game again like the lorde
sleek turret
When its removed, its because it has a reason for being removed.
tawny garden
(imo not having smth that is irreversible isn't interesting but I guess I'm outnumbered)
Yeah the interludes never were in the game
hollow shell
The themes weren't in and then removed
They were never in
yeah
The interlude Don't is separate
hollow idol
Irradiated Slimes -> Gamma Slimes isn't reversible if that's enough Irra banner recipe when
copper turret
Ya know something that isn't that major that I remember is gamma slime banners. irradiated slime banner can be crafted into lead core cuz it drops it, ya know? gamma slime is irradiated slime replacement so you cant get the irradiated slime banner in tier 3. gamma slime banner can't craft the lead core even though gamma slimes drop it. small fix that you could make but i just want your guys opinions, its kinda annoying when you need silva armor for auric
hollow idol
"gamma slime banner can't craft the lead core"
banners dont make stuff in calamity alone
copper turret
Yeah but gamma slime is just upgraded irradiated slime so the banners should craft the same thing too right
dapper coral
that's another mod tho
hollow idol
^
copper turret
wait, oh right
dapper coral
that's literally not a calamity thing
copper turret
fervent citrus
i wanna suggest SoC bonks dont work on hive blobs 
cuz whenever i dash to dodge HM's dash i just bump into the blobs floating around him and end up where i was
and this has been the reason to most of my failed HM nohit attempts 
dapper coral
well that's kinda the potential issue with the bonk, innit
fervent citrus
tru 
frail mantle
i don't know if that would be possible without straight up making the blobs invincible
dapper coral
that would also be funky, ye
golden narwhal
use scarf perhaps
dapper coral
that sounds like lots of extra spritework, plus it's a patron item so you need to ask the permission of the dedicatee
crystal iron
Ik that "it'd be cool" isn't a valid reason
It's just a. Placeholder resin for now
Oh
north plank
Variants of the aestheticus?
crystal iron
Ye
dapper coral
so like, phasesabers ig
hollow idol
It's getting a resprite
north plank
I mean so pallet swaps
Not difficult per se but what would be the difference between the variants
Crafting wise
hollow idol
with phasesabers its one color so it's not hard to make it look fine, but aestheticus uses a bunch of colors so making a good looking sprite might be hard
north plank
Unless you did colors that fit thematically
crystal iron
It would be crafted with stained glass
north plank
Like green purple blue and some other combo
crystal iron
Ye that would work
glacial kettle
(pretty sure there is stained glass walls)
hollow idol
it has gemspark blocks
north plank
Yeah that’s bout as close as it gets
hollow idol
but no "x glass"
crystal iron
K
robust lava
Stained Glass Walls do exist
But still, this would need a better reason, and the patron's permission
glacial kettle
crystal iron
But still, this would need a better reason, and the patron's permission
Ik I literally said this is a placeholder reason
For discussion cuz I'm bad at explaining
whole sedge
Yeah I don't see a point at all for that
glacial kettle
You should probably post suggestions after you have reasoning rather than with placeholder reasoning
crystal iron
The actual reason
Well it would only make sense that an aestheticus
Would be craftable in different variants
Although I don't see a point in carrying on with this sugg cuz I need patreons permission
hollow shell
Koora do you not know why the weapon is named that
glacial kettle
It's called that as a play on the dedicatee's name
hollow shell
It's because of the vaporwave meme
"A E S T H E T I C"
That's why it's cyan and pink
crystal iron
Oh
hollow shell
and has a windows logo in it
crystal iron
Oh
golden narwhal
Interesting stuffs
crystal iron
The more u learn ig
whole sedge
fossil finch
Oh it is yeah
zenith hazel
that doesn't really change the fact that removing the summoner nerf would inevitably cause major balancing issues
hollow shell
Yeah this is better than before
craggy stratus
the summoner nerf is to encourage using only summon weapon or none at all if doing other class
unreal viper
Indeed.
fossil finch
This is not a fix to that imo
Nor is the nerf, but i really can't think of anything else
sand umbra
the issue is that summoner is busted in multiclass scenarios by design
whole sedge
The nerf is really the best we've got, it discourages hybrid summoner which is frankly good enough
And what thomas said
sand umbra
I'm not saying the solution is perfect as it is, but I'm also going to tell you right now removing that nerf is not the way to go
even with the nerf, it's still free damage
especially since most Calamity summons (and a good chunk of vanilla summons in 1.4) use local or ID-static immunity frames
meaning you can still hit enemies with other weapons while your summons are out there dealing damage
hollow shell
I feel like I've been given the answer to this before but I do not remember what it was
Does anybody know why we nerf the damage of the summon, and not the damage of the non-summon weapons instead?
robust lava
I think it depends on whether you want to stop Summoners from using other Class weapons, or other Classes from using Summon weapons.
If the Summon damage is nerfed, then other Classes can still use Summons, albeit at a greatly reduced effectivenesss, but Summoners can't really use other Class weapons, unless they want to tank their primary DPS source.
If the other Class damage is nerfed, then the opposite is true - other Classes don't want to use Summons, or else their primary DPS class gets gutted, but Summons could use other Class weapons for a bit more DPS, even if the weapon is weaker.
sand umbra
which is why I think, if the nerf is to remain, it should work the other way around
realistically, using a summon should draw some of your power, causing you to be less efficient with other weapons
the summoner trying to use other weaponry so they have something to do is not the one you want to punish with this
because the summoner's other-class damage is already trash particularly in later stages of the game
tawny garden
have both nerfs at the same time
sand umbra
...I really want to make a suggestion to flip the way the nerf works now
hollow shell
You can
sand umbra
rather than reducing summon damage while holding another class' weapon
reduce other class damage while you have a summon active
tawny garden
I recall there being a sugg like it, but I don't remember if it reached dev
or whether it was approved/rejected
north plank
It was mentioned here, but I don’t think it was suggested
north plank
Oh nice
sand umbra
never did reach star req though
tawny garden
yeah
sand umbra
tawny garden
go make it
sand umbra
let's see if I can't whip up something more successful
north plank
Oh no
sand umbra
gusty scarab
let's see if I can't whip up something more successful
@sand umbra you accidentally gave the solution
hollow shell
... not entirely wrong
hollow shell
Problem with the current summon nerf is that it encourages the most boring possible playstyle
Whips would at least give you something to do and support your minions
gusty scarab
Whips, maybe more classless weapons
sand umbra
the issue is that
gusty scarab
And smart summon ai
north plank
Which doesn’t exist
sand umbra
it's better to address the problem at the source rather than tiptoe-ing around it
north plank
I mean it adds a bit of depth
sand umbra
which is why I'm writing this sugg
glacial kettle
whips have pitifully short range at times too to the point where it doesn't help at all
sand umbra
whips are the antithesis of summoner's design yes
I've been over this. I do not like vanilla's handling of whips, don't ask
'tis a discussion for another place, if you really wish for it to be had
gusty scarab
i just want to do crap while my summons also do crap
sand umbra
there have been a lot of suggs about the summon nerf and how people don't like it recently
it's just that none of them really get to the heart of the issue, which is that in the grand scheme of things
the summoner that wants something to do (whips, classless weps, and Borealis Bomber notwithstanding) is the one being punished, not the other classes that decide to have free summon damage
tawny garden
hm
I haven't played in so long that I need to be reminded on how the game works
what if we have both summoner penalties
as in, decrease non-summon class damage while a summon is active AND decrease summon damage while holding another class' weaponry
glacial kettle
The existing nerf would likely be lessened to compensate if that happens
sand umbra
multiclassing should still be a viable option
it just shouldn't be broken in the context of summoner-somethingelse hybrids
sand umbra
me omw to remove classless armors
glacial kettle
multiplayer is a whole other can of worms
tawny garden
did I word that poorly
sand umbra
multiplayer is a buggy load of horseshit that quite bluntly isn't even designed or well-programmed and was just thrown into the game for laughs
whole sedge
yeah one actually works and one is horrendous
sand umbra
multiclassing is a concept which is given a base to work from by the vanilla game and which is expanded upon considerably by Calamity
tawny garden
saying "fuck multiclassing" is like saying "fuck multiplayer"
sand umbra
no it isn't
one of these things can be made to work without wanting to kill oneself trying
glacial kettle
multiplayer is less workable with
tawny garden
fair enough
sand umbra
the other is multiplayer 
tawny garden
multiplayer <...> was just thrown into the game for laughs
it only exists because if it didn't people would be like "ooh multiplayer would be good for this game"
"pls add"
void kelp
tbh the only thing w/ the reverse summoner nerf effect is
how many people use summoner the way vanilla has summoner
tawny garden
I did, kind of
used it as support in between bosses so that I don't die as much when exploring/grinding
it didn't help me in bossfights at all though
gusty scarab
just having a way to get things off you
tawny garden
ye
unreal viper
Minions can be very dumb, ja.
north plank
Yeah the only issue with that is what Spider said, which is a good point
People initially use summons as a back up like vanilla, there would also need to be some indication that there is even change
hollow shell
@ebon nest Uh yeah do you wanna talk about effort, collaboration, and difficulty to balance?
tawny garden
People initially use summons as a back up like vanilla
iirc that's exactly what calamity tries to stop
wooden wedge
also eternity mode compatibility because I know Fargo won’t ever do it because I when I suggested it on the discord a whole discussion went on with me being incredibly stubborn and keep suggesting it and I felt a bunch negativity around it which I didn’t mean to happen.
I'm pretty sure this won't happen from both sides
or like anything else from this sugg
tawny garden
cross-mod balancing
mossy badge
does fargo have anything against calamity?
unreal viper
Hm
I think rev mode and dmode compatibility could work, but it'd have to be mimimal
wooden wedge
I don't think that's the issue at all doggo
since bugs don't care about your feelings
tawny garden
they don't want to spend time on this
sturdy geyser
I believe this falls under the "asking for too much" don't
Since asking for full cross compat is a lot
wooden wedge
especially asking for full cross compat for several mods
hollow shell
Discord plz
tawny garden
unreal viper
Altough slider does exist to give more hp ig.
Add a damage and velocity slider too
wooden wedge
velocity slider sounds funny
void kelp
Also w/ emode and rev the vanilla boss AI changes aren’t exactly going to be the best because fab and terry have different opinions on how to change these bosses
tawny garden
Discord plz
are you sure that discord is bad
and it's not a between keyboard and chair problem
hollow shell
(Nah it didn't scroll down so I was responding to an old message)
tawny garden
inb4 I get banned
hollow shell
idek what joke you were going for
void kelp
I would imagine that for there to be thorium-calamity related AI changes diver would also have to let fab work on his bosses — that is, of course, assuming fab wants to make changes to them when he has his own stuff to work on
ebon nest
It’s just a suggestion, but an awesome one at that, look at what happens when the base bosses have both https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1EQua7m5WQ, also for the other mod nits not going to be all at once, just start with thorium and do the rest later one at a time. 😅
void kelp
I don’t think you understand how high-effort this would be
- the AI compatibility with emode is going to be, at best, “they will both happen”
tawny garden
can smb remove the embed it's too big
hollow shell
eh sure
void kelp
I can’t do it on mobile 
hollow shell
nvm can't
sturdy geyser
Yes, even for one mod, its a massive amount of work and coordination to do this
hollow shell
same
void kelp
me and rover on mobile gang gang
sturdy geyser
more like cringe iirc
dapper coral
(i did it)
void kelp
boss AI changes are big and would require the developers of both mods in question to sit down and work together on this, rather than on their own mods
ebon nest
It’s high effort, high reward, its not going to immediate, you can start on it whenever you want, after all it is just a suggestion, you are incharge here, all I want is to be entertained, I will be patient.
tawny garden
is it a high reward?
void kelp
we have a document full of suggestion guidelines
sturdy geyser
to the children who need to play 10 mods at once it is
void kelp
I’m going to be deleting the suggestion
north plank
If the reward is making a sorta small group of people happy ig
sturdy geyser
tawny garden
north plank
sturdy geyser
I’m going to be deleting the suggestion
good thing i screenshotted it
tawny garden
why
void kelp
like I mean it’d be cool I guess but it’s not really something that would be put into any serious consideration considering the fact that these things are in development
sturdy geyser
There was a project called Masochist Mode DLC that wanted to bring Eternity mode compat to other content mods
tawny garden
these mods will always be in developement, until they die off
sturdy geyser
but thats long dead
craggy stratus
this is a very interesting sugg
ebon nest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1EQua7m5WQ it’s fair if you don’t want to do it, that’s fine but the results below is example of what happens when vanilla bosses are affected by both and it’s glorious to imagine how a calamity boss might be affected.
ebon nest
It something to think about, just saying 😅
dapper coral
chief we've already said it's not gonna happen, at least for a looooooooooong while
suggestion's already gone
ebon nest
I know
whole sedge
just looks like a buggy and painful mess for something that's kind of meh to me 
ebon nest
So maybe next year, maybe 😔
sturdy geyser
likely not
tawny garden
don't count on it
whole sedge
chances are never unless someone makes a separate mod for it
ebon nest
True dat
tawny garden
smh
fringe sky
😦
glacial kettle
I believe that would fall under
-Please do not advertise your suggestion or complain about its star amount, these channels are meant to gauge public reaction passively. Feel free to repost in a weeks time if you feel timing was the issue.
heady storm
It does fall under that, now you know though.
sand umbra
friendly reminder that Calamity will (hopefully) jump to 1.4 someday and as such a second void bag/vault item would be redundant
heady storm
@crimson sonnet
- An introduction shouldn't be your header, the main idea of your suggestion should be instead.
- You'll get the actual void bag either way, as tmodloader is currently advancing towards 1.4.
fossil finch
Without saying that there's no reason
heady storm
Mmmyeah, that too.
wooden wedge
gonna delete the sugg because future content don't
wooden wedge
is it not??
hollow shell
Still wasn't very valid cuz it's just asking for the Void Bag, but Calamity's gonna update to 1.4 eventually anyway
heady storm
gonna delete the sugg because future content don't
It technically didn't, byeah still not very valid.
wooden wedge
it was asking for a "similar" item with what I think the exact same function of the vanilla void bag
which to me sounded like it was just asking for the void bag
heady storm
@hollow shell did you intend to ping this suggestion's author and exclaim it btw? https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/763285302378233886
hollow shell
Yeah sure
@signal glade "Unlike rogue which is just a combination of ranger and melee" this is a bit of a... reductive statement, and doesn't really help your case at all
Your suggestion should probably be elaborated on more overall, too.
Like, counting out how many lifesteal options ranger has versus other classes at a few points throughout the game
cuz ranger does have lifesteal options
cobalt pewter
Just not on accessories I guess?
Probably they see Vampiric Talisman and go "hey, why doesn't ranger have one of these"
When in reality, they do, just different delivery methods
hollow shell
Even though Rogue is pretty much unique in having a universal lifesteal acc
Arguably mage is the only other class with one, Mana Polarizer
but that's conditional and has a drawback
sand umbra
mfw complaining that ranger doesn't have something another class has
hot zephyr
ranger buff 
cobalt pewter
Speaking of Vampiric Talisman, I might need to say that it's, a bit broken on post-ML stealth
violet dagger
hot zephyr
Vampiric Talisman is super broken tbh
cobalt pewter
I'd probably just cease the lifesteal and make it stackable life regen on a short duration
But that might be just me
hot zephyr
It just needs a rework, nerfing it wouldn't do enough
glacial kettle
Maybe the damage boost should be lowered or removed since lifesteal is already pretty strong for what it is
hot zephyr
It's free super-strong life steal
glacial kettle
and cap the lifesteal harder
violet dagger
well if it were nerfed rogue would need a small buff since rogue is def suffering from being really weak in many stages
cobalt pewter
that might change
hot zephyr
Like?
violet dagger
probably just me being bad
hot zephyr
I stomped Rev/death with Rogue, especially late HM
Rogue has really strong accessories
cobalt pewter
Even though I'm speaking in chad stealth, but rogue is definitely weaker vs polter
hot zephyr
Everything is weak vs Polter
cobalt pewter
I had to use Celestial Reaper, an early post-ML weap, against it
unreal viper
Vampiric talisman is pretty much 15hp/sec with the right setup.
cobalt pewter
Ye
raven moon
honestly i dont like that microwave sugg
its meant to sound like a microwave
thats the point of its name
dapper coral
then don't star it ¯_(ツ)_/¯
raven moon
im just kinda surprised it made it all the way to voting
dapper coral
while that is the point, it is definitely annoying to some people
and that was acknowledged
cobalt pewter
There are definitely quieter sounding microwave beeps out there
foggy plover
apparently depending on what sound drivers you use the beep sound from microwave (and the explosions from pwnagehammer) are either super fuckin loud or normal volume
dapper coral
that is peculiar
foggy plover
its really weird, basically means the problem varies per person
hollow shell
@heady storm Mhartz edited his sugg, bigger reason now
I still disagree with it but it's a respectable size now
violet dagger
I think it's valid but the stars will show how much people like it after all
heady storm
Exclamation removed in that case.
signal glade
i want to ask want is the omega blue's role in every five classes?
cobalt pewter
Glass cannon armor
signal glade
dont worry this will be related to what ill be suggesting
ashen warren
omega blue is glass cannon
but why use omega blue when you can use reaper tooth necklace and still have regen
frail mantle
because you can use omega blue and RTN at the same time for max glass
signal glade
bruh not only your destroying your chance to recover your destroying you chance to live
frail mantle
if you can dodge well enough you don't need survivability
fossil finch
If you are good at dodging you can manage going glass easily
toxic kettle
Can't die if you don't get hit 
signal glade
you all do have a point
crude geode
There’s a reason there’s a minimum time fought for no-hitting.
craggy stratus
just turn on the reactive DR
reactive DR should do the job of increasing your killtime
crude geode
What? I was referring to how much dps you can get with a late game glass cannon build.
glacial kettle
I think skyfringe is meant to be faster than molten for most of phm
and then gelpick is also faster than molten but can also mine t1 hm ores
fossil finch
ehm
The hellstone part
Not at all
Hellstone is intended for post skeletron
"you're expected to have already mined for Hellstone." this is not true
You're expected to NOT have get any hell-tier items
zenith hazel
but then how would you explain the evil pickaxes being able to mine hellstone? isn't hellstone meant to be after boc/eow that way then?
fossil finch
idk
But you can crearly see that hellstone is def not balanced for skeletron or dungeon at all, all equipment there is just worse than hell tier
And then, gel pick exists
So it would be two exact pickaxes and you can get one of them before the other for no reason
fossil finch
Then why everything in dungeon is worse?
swift wharf
handgun + hellstone and stuff
fossil finch
Vanilla crearly balanced hell tier stuff to be post skeletron
Both enemies and weapons
fossil finch
And there's even the chest that require you to got to dungeon
swift wharf
the only hell tier stuff that requires dungeon is the shadow chest stuff
fossil finch
Yeah and in calamity i can figth cultist pre mechs but that doesn't mean it's the intended way
zenith hazel
that's mostly because vanilla balancing is questionable
fossil finch
The option exists, yes, and i'm fine with that, my point is that hell stuff is intended to be get after having defeated skeletron, so the "you're expected to have already mined for Hellstone" is not true at all
swift wharf
theres stuff like cobalt shield and handgun that is good bcz phoenix blaster
that's mostly because vanilla balancing is questionable
very true
idk why the dungeon wand is the same tier as the shadow chest wand
thats some wack balance
zenith hazel
you're expected to have already mined for hellstone because you're practically given a pick that can mine hellstone after beating the evil bosses
is it intended? nobody knows
are we gonna balance hell stuff around that tier? yes because it seems like a logical middle ground between pre-boss and skeletron
distant gyro
skyfringe is the fastest pick in phm
fossil finch
The thing is that they aren't the same tier at all, since the game leads you to dungeon before telling you hell exists, and expects the player to have not get there yet, so it wouldn't make sense at all for something you are "expected" to get later in the game to be just worse
Whenever they did hell and all of it stuff, they clearly intended it to be post dungeon
cobalt pewter
Tell that to red ig
distant gyro
it's true
cobalt pewter
distant gyro
relogic's intention of where hell places is actually post-skeletron
swift wharf
fight skeletron as the first boss
fossil finch
skyfringe is the fastest pick in phm
then it would also need nerfing, cuz that would make gel pick, a pick you get later, worse for no reason
You can
but that doesn't mean it's balanced or intended around that
swift wharf
it's just faster not the best tho
fossil finch
The option is there, but it's not what the game wants you to do
distant gyro
ye
if you mine 100 pieces of stone blocks
- Gelpick takes 1600 frames
- Molten takes 1800 frames
- Skyfringe takes 2800 frames
distant gyro
If you mine 100 pieces of dirt, however
- Gelpick takes 1600 frames
- Molten takes 1800 frames
- Skyfringe takes 1400 frames
fossil finch
Yeah that would be really busted tbh
gusty scarab
So Skyfringe should be in between Molten and Gel
fossil finch
Skyfringe would be just plain better than gel if you gave it 100% percent power
Making gel redundant since you have a better option that's acceded before
fossil finch
But every single person ever figths him
cuz statigel stuff destroys wof
And yeah like
A boss being optional doesn't mean it's equipment shouldn't be balanced to be better than equipment you could get before
Even more if it's a tool and not a wep
tawny garden
going for a quite-short-but-straight-to-the-point one today, eh
sand umbra
yeah
fossil finch
Basically make it usefull like 1.4.1 magma stone yes please
sand umbra
byeah
if On Fire! is bad enough that it needs a buff post-EoW/BoC
then it absolutely needs a unique, more effective replacement post-Golem
also I don't think this entirely needs clarification, but this also technically extends to the Fire Gauntlet
(although I'll cover that some other time, methinks)
cobalt pewter
Vanilla actually does that for 1.4.1
fossil finch
It would be nice
Specially since it's tier is moved in calamity and the other scoria stuff is already getting another debuff, so even then, 1.4.1 magma effect being in gauntlet wouldn't affect it
sand umbra
15 DPS isn't much better than 4 DPS at a tier like post-Golem, alright
cobalt pewter
I mean yeh
fossil finch
Obviusly
sand umbra
baby steps are steps too small to be takin' right now
e
vanilla is on its last actual update you can't just be makin' baby steps
bruh
tawny garden
sand umbra
you gotta make strides
you gotta make it worth the bullshit people put up with
unreal star
grown ass game still making baby steps
sand umbra
it really do be like that
fossil finch
I mean it's still hell tier upgrade to onfire and shit
gusty scarab
vanilla is on its last actual update you can't just be makin' baby steps
@sand umbra last update so far
fossil finch
But that's it
sand umbra
1.5 does nothing but make the game actually decently designed
no more new shit
no more meme-tier powercreep
unreal star
that’s never gonna happen
sturdy geyser
1.5 does nothing but make the game actually decently designed
okay so, its never coming then
gusty scarab
guys 1.2 is the last update
ok sorry it's 1.3, last update
nope, it's 1.4, but that's the last one for real
ok, 1.5, last update, and this pattern continues forever
sand umbra
we'll get a new last update every 5 years
fossil finch
No more zenith breaking the balance of absolutly every mod with post moonlord content or is that still led to devs to deal with?
unreal star
post game so far
fossil finch
Yeah the deal is mods exist and shit
And every mod will have to deal with it somehow
sand umbra
it's not the devs' fault that you made 5 billion post-ML bosses and then a weapon got added that, get this: doesn't care that they exist
brittle nexus
Its endgame content for vanilla. Doesn't need to be balanced by the vanilla devs
sand umbra
^
gusty scarab
someone's gonna make a mod that adds a combination of the Zenith and Calamity Zenith
fossil finch
Fair enough tbh
gusty scarab
i just know it
tawny garden
calamity zenith?
weak field
exoblade
tawny garden
m
weak field
Or ark of the cosmos
fossil finch
But zenith probably upgrades in exoblade
tawny garden
I wouldn't call it that but ok
sand umbra
no Zenith in Exoblade 
tawny garden
↑
sand umbra
Zenith does not need any upgrades, precursors, or otherclass counterparts
Scoria gear, however, needs an upgrade in the sense that it needs to actually inflict a meaningful debuff
thank you for coming to my TED talk and have a good day
🛫
tawny garden
gusty scarab
doesn't the Murasama
tawny garden
Zenith is just a meme
gusty scarab
i 100% remember that
sand umbra
that blade predates 1.4 and was in the old expansion "Calamity: Dimensions"/"Emphatic Untamed Calamity"
and that expansion is dead
tawny garden
RIP in pieces
heady lichen
Zenith doesn't exist, it can't break your mod progression
Zenith:
sand umbra
and no you can't convince Seraph or anybody else to revive it
signal glade
i honestly thought devs would gave the source codes to the new update so that they can adjust their mods to the new update
but the devs are like meh they'll sort it out themselves
tawny garden
which devs? tML?
signal glade
terraria devs
sturdy geyser
Tmodloader is open source
sand umbra
tML is right there, in the middle of porting to 1.4
so bonus points, you get to gaze at Terraria 1.4 source with tML shit on the playing field
signal glade
i mean would that ruin a crap ton of progression, strategy, crafting receipe etc?
signal glade
state your case
how about master mode being compatible to mods that brings new difficulties like calamity?
ashen warren
zenith was in another mod and it was a summon weapon iirc
sand umbra
hi Brav 
zenith hazel
sugg bot is temporarily down so don't get confused as to why some suggs aren't being posted in voting, I've already reported to amber so no need to do that again
tawny garden
sand umbra
cobalt pewter
signal glade
zenith hazel
for now I can just manually post the non-problematic suggs
zenith hazel
ty ozz
zenith hazel
you added the base vote
hearty yew
I like all 3 of these suggestions so I starred them
zenith hazel
I forgot to star that last one as a base lol
hearty yew
Epic
zenith hazel
byeah this seems to be an issue with not just the sugg bot rn so I'm just gonna manually deliver these things until amber's got that sorted out
cobalt pewter
tawny garden
ye if the server on which the suggbot is hosted is down there isn't really anything that she can do
prime elm
sand umbra
pog
north plank
Pog suggestion at that
hollow shell
@hardy dock "At the point that you fight Hive Mind, you're expected to have already mined for Hellstone." "Aerialite is a tier above Hellstone,"
Que? Can you add some reasoning/proof for this?
As far as I'm aware, Hell stuff is supposed to be post-Dungeon, cuz of Shadow Key and WoF being the Hell boss, and the fact that Purified Gel equipment does require Hellstone (including Gelpick which has 100% pickaxe power), implying its tier as well.
dapper coral
hellstone is def above aerialite
sleek turret
yes
fossil finch
This is basically what i was saying
hollow shell
Reminder, intended boss progression:
fossil finch
Hell stuf is post dungeon, you can get it before, but it's meant after
sleek turret
Yeah
cobalt pewter
Kinda like saying ana and levi are post plant boss, but you can meme it and do them preboss
hollow shell
Now, can you mine Hellstone as soon as you beat EoW/BoC?
Yes, but that doesn't mean it's intended for you to. s'called non-linearity, and Calamity has a ton of it
cobalt pewter
fossil finch
So yeah aerealite is not post hell stuff
And even then, if the posibility of giving it that pickaxe power upgrade was there, you would need to nerf it's speed
as it totally destroys gelpick one
hollow shell
@high cypress What?
high cypress
Im bad at typing, hold on
sleek turret
Damage per Tick?
fossil finch
the sugg itself is fine but it would require to create an inmense amount of debuffs just for that
sleek turret
yeah
high cypress
I.E On fire status affect is applied, cursed fire status affect is applied, it combines into 1 status affect
sleek turret
because Terraria runs 60 ticks por second.
fossil finch
yeah the thing is
hollow shell
That would indeed be hard to execute and also I don't see how that would reduce lag at all
fossil finch
There's also like 90 dot effects
and you'll need to make a debuff for every combination possible
tawny garden
also that would undermine the existence of the debuff cap
fossil finch
wich is just
sleek turret
aka; 1 tick is 1/60 second
fossil finch
not exactly
high cypress
i see now why its a bad suggestion, it just sounded better in my head
tawny garden
or is that a good thing
fossil finch
A good idea
hollow shell
Well Calamity's debuffs already bypass the cap
tawny garden
they do?
hollow shell
Vanilla ones still respect it tho
high cypress
should i delete my suggestion?
hollow shell
You can
@swift wharf "lightning tiles" in your topic line
otherwise good suggestion
violet dagger
edit
swift wharf
done
fossil finch
I can recall this being sugged before byeah it's god sugg
white canyon
is suggestion bot down or smth
dapper coral
ye
white canyon
hollow shell
Wait, @ashen warren hasn't been pinged yet
tawny garden
she has-
hollow shell
o
tawny garden
Brav notified her
hollow shell
I assume through DMs
Actually Doge pinged her about the moderator bot earlier, which would be connected
so
byeah
dapper coral
something something bot server is down, i think
tawny garden
that was my guess
dapper coral
or amber is doing maintenence/other bot things, who knows ¯_(ツ)_/¯
oh, these last two are overdue
any final calls on these?
hollow shell
Uhh I question pupseal's
dapper coral
so do i
hollow shell
I assume people have questioned it in the 26ish hours its existed
but, s'not edited
Top line is misleading too
foggy plover
pupseals just sounds like they dont know what defense is as a mechanic
hollow shell
Yeah I'm gonna
@gusty scarab Here's your suggestion:
Make the summoner nerf balanced
I just did some testing, and a setup that averaged 4-9 damage was doing all 1s when holding a melee weapon. It's supposed to be a 50% debuff, not a 80% debuff, at least according too what i've heard
It needs edits and prolly a lot more cross-referencing from testers
For now I'll delete it from posting cuz it's overdue
But uh Feedzuh's suggestion looks fine. I haven't seen much of the new Polter fight but I'll take their word for it
gusty scarab
what edits does it need
dapper coral
righty
hollow shell
Well first off you should edit your top topic line, cuz it's pretty misleading
It seems like you're talking about the nerf as it is intended, and that you disagree with it
tawny garden
hug you to death
hm
hollow shell
rather than it being incorrect and needing of fixing, which is what your reasoning implies
gusty scarab
ahh
hollow shell
And secondly you should like, test builds that don't deal such absurdly low damage
cuz that's most likely skewing your results
gusty scarab
i think it screws up early game
hollow shell
It would help for you to test and get a handle on when & how it screws up
rather than blanketly saying "it's all messed up, fix it" after only testing a few pre-boss weapons
gusty scarab
wait does it apply before enemy defense?
foggy plover
yes
gusty scarab
that explains it
yep
it's not halving the 5 damage
it's halving the full 11 and then taking off 6 from defense
near shuttle
@sand umbra I like your ideas about the summoner debuff rework, it still discourage summoner to use other weapon, but without cutting down their primary source of dps, and player that use other weapon has their primary source of dps and use summon to gain some "free dps" would have their dps dropped by quite a lot.
sand umbra
correct
violet dagger
So what happened to Sugg bot
hollow shell
s'just down temporarily, it'll be back
violet dagger
Did it die again
foggy plover
tbh I think summoner debuff shouldnt just be a simple flip like that
tawny garden
It didn't die
foggy plover
it should be something more on the lines of "if youre wearing a summoner armor its flipped" or something like that
tawny garden
It's just asleep
foggy plover
because support summons are a thing, as well as using summons to help farm
tawny garden
foggy plover
there is 4 other classes, and only 1 summoner class
hollow shell
But I thought the point of the nerf was to detract the value of using summons when you're not a summoner?
sand umbra
the point of the nerf is to discourage using summons for free damage as not-summoner, yes
(which imho it doesn't accomplish, leading to my sugg about it)
tawny garden
(Btw it's a penalty, not a nerf)
sand umbra
(potato, tomato, point still stands)
tawny garden
(Ye)
frail mantle
could just penalty both minions and non-summon weapons when a minion is summoned and another class weapon is held, so you can still multiclass except there won't really be a benefit to using summons for free extra dps
sand umbra
except that's still needlessly punishing the summoner for wanting to actually do something
hollow shell
Indeed
Non-summoners using minions is them being greedy with DPS
Summoners using non-summon weapons is them wanting to not have the most boring playstyle ever
sand umbra
^
I don't think people entirely realize just how boring summoner is in the grand scheme of things
you summon things and then you just run away like a bitch for however long while your summons do all the work
and I get there's probably a power trip to be had somewhere here but for most people that's not engagin' at all
and under the current system, to give an example
two players go into a fight with the same power level by gear and the same strategy for fighting the boss
there is one difference between them: one is a ranger using a summon for free extra DPS, and the other is a summoner using a ranger weapon to give some supporting fire to help their minions and not have a really boring playstyle
so the question is, who gets punished harder here for trying to multiclass?
logically, you'd think it'd be the ranger since the non-summoner classes have plenty of more passive options already, but it's not
the summoner is the one that ends up getting punished harder here because summon damage is the damage they build for
sand umbra
making the penalty work both ways doesn't actually fix the problem of needlessly punishing the summoner, rather opting to simply place a band-aid over it and pass it off as "balanced"
and in a few months' time we'd be right back to this problem again, except people would hate it even more
because now everyone's getting punished equally --- and in this context, believe it or not, that's actually not very fair (or conducive to balance) at all
pine star
Yeah
sand umbra
the summoner should, in no capacity whatsoever, need to be punished for wanting to have a playstyle that isn't mind-numbingly boring
they're not actively buildin' for that otherclass damage, so the damage they'd lose from an other-class damage penalty is next to nothing compared to what someone trying to use summons for free DPS would lose by the same penalty
they just wanna do something, that's what the concept of summoner with a side of XYZ boils down to
brittle nexus
Summoner is.just a difficult class to balance in general, if you make it balanced to use by itself then it is op for multi class, and if you balance it around multi class then you make it horrible to use by itself
It's such an anomaly that one of the terraria devs said that pure summoner is not intentional
hollow shell
my bad, 5
sand umbra
reminder that Marked Magnum due to its progression placement has nowhere its proc is actually practical and Lunic Eye is really just a damage weapon in classless clothing because its proc is resisted by everything important
Golden Gun got fucked hard by the (long-overdue imo) Ichor nerf
hollow shell
and there's no Cursed Inferno classless weapon and the devs rejected the idea of making one
pine star
Why
sand umbra
for some reason
hollow shell
well uh
sand umbra
I still don't understand why only Crimson worlds get to have the hilarious guaranteed-to-be-usable debuff weapon
brittle nexus
If you want to be a maniac just use that cursed flames book from vanilla
pine star
brittle nexus
uh ohh
sand umbra
Aestheticus is like. usable at least? I don't actually know how viable it is
pine star
It's useable
hollow shell
and Yanmei's Knife is good, afaik
sand umbra
isn't Yanmei really fucking close range though
brittle nexus
Yep
sand umbra
i.e. "the exact opposite of where you wanna be as a summoner"
hollow shell
Somewhere between Arkhalis and current Murasama
sand umbra
because remember, summoner has the structural integrity of a wet piece of paper
you die from a leaf hitting you the wrong way
okay it's not that bad but seriously what is it with summoner and getting like no defense compared to other classes
brittle nexus
You get like.. more brain cells to dodge instead of attacking, idk
Cause that's how it works
sand umbra
anywho yeah
Marked Magnum isn't really practical like anywhere
Golden Gun got fucked by Ichor nerf
Lunic Eye is just...damage
Aestheticus is neat, may be viable earlier on
Yanmei is just too close range to be practical for summoner
tawny garden
seriously what is it with summoner and getting like no defense compared to other classes
it's supposed to be glass cannon
sand umbra
the classless weapon experience™️
tawny garden
you don't have to aim/etc., so focus on dodging
brittle nexus
The true glass cannon atm is multiclass
sand umbra
Philo that is not the definition of glass cannon
tawny garden
byeah
sand umbra
glass cannon implies you deal a significant cut more damage than other builds
summoner very much does not do this
pine star
So then we buff summon damage?
whole sedge
Doesn't summoner usually do less damage than other builds?
sand umbra
yes, actually
in vanilla and in a sizable cut of Calamity, you will consistently get more damage out of a not-summoner build than you will out of a summoner build
tawny garden
ok, that means my definitions are kinda not synced up to the real world
imma go get a firmware update
pine star
Ok
sand umbra
so you get no defense and no compensation for that complete lack of defense
pine star
So we do buff summon damage
sand umbra
no
pine star
Why
whole sedge
Ok
pine star
Buff summoner, then implement Thomas' suggestion
tawny garden
@hexed shard #help-advice-read-pins
hexed shard
And i dont know what weapons shoukd i use
brittle nexus
Different channel, this is the wrong one to ask this question.
foggy plover
fuck I had to go to class so I missed the summoner multiclass discussion
wooden wedge
boohoo
hollow shell
(classes made you miss class talk)
craggy stratus
sand umbra
me when you miss classes because of classes
heady storm
tawny garden
there is a downside to reposting suggs manually into voting like that
it looks as though Brav made the sugg
zenith hazel
if people can't read then yea it looks like that
tawny garden
reading is hard
hollow shell
I have had one person think that I was the author a manually-reposted suggestion
But, iunno if ever happened again
tawny garden
I have had one person think that I was the author a manually-reposted suggestion
yeah, that was me
hollow shell
okay 2 times then
tawny garden
brittle nexus
Been fighting Yharon a lot recently, and I've found this to be a very annoying and "unfair" part of the fight, so here we go.
violet dagger
I agree with this
also yharon spawning angry flames during the bullet hells can go
or whatever their called
wasnt angery flame the removed one
dapper coral
i did notice this as well, where he charges you while you're in the bullet hell
so good sugg
violet dagger
detonating flames is what im talking about
brittle nexus
violet dagger
he spawns 3 in the bullet hells iirc
and its really annoying
since they're hard to kill and deal big dmg
tawny garden
@river glen suggested literally a day ago
river glen
gusty geode
Isn't Cal just in-general against multi-classing
Only armor I can name offhand that's truly multi-class is Omega Blue
And even then it might not be anymore
glacial kettle
probably a response to
Only armor I can name offhand that's truly multi-class is Omega Blue
pine star
Yeah
gusty geode
Yeah, that's something I've noticed
Don't wanna go on a rant about it as I tend to whenever I speak in this chat but I've noticed there's only one way to reliably play this mod
And any other way is either that "proper" way in disguise or actively worked against
With the exception of Summoner and arguably Rogue
pine star
Go ahead
sand umbra
and that way is to build for damage and only damage
cobalt pewter
Yes
sand umbra
pine star
That said, how is that even fixed?
cobalt pewter
Yeah
pine star
Also that Paladin is dope
gusty geode
Like
True Melee/tank is actively worked against
Sentries are abandoned
pine star
I don't think it's intentional
Remember never to assume malice when stupidity suffices
sand umbra
by the by
literally can proc against the minions of the boss
allow me to name the post-Golem bosses that have minions that 1) live long enough to spread the debuff to the boss, b) aren't themselves death to be near, and iii) don't stick close enough to the boss in practical fight scenarios that it's really just boss but w/ extra contact damage
alright, I'm done, moving on
you just need to dodge and hit the boss when he tries to hit you
congratulations, that's Terraria in general, it doesn't mean the weapon has anything more going for it
(unrelated but
(stuff about damage + movement speed buff)
the various fronts of extra damage are nice but I feel the need to remind you movement speed doesn't actually affect movement speed in this game, it affects acceleration which by post-Golem you have plenty of)
glacial kettle
it's not a contagious debuff
glacial kettle
it's about hitting the minions for the player buffs
because the player buffs are really strong iirc
sand umbra
movement speed does nothing
glacial kettle
I don't remember how much the past update nerfed it though
sand umbra
you have like 5 dashes + accel buffs out the ass by the time you can get Yanmei's Knife
foggy plover
why exactly are we just
glacial kettle
15% bonus dmg is still quite a bit
foggy plover
roasting yanmeis
gusty geode
Tank's death is definitely malice tho
The devs didn't want people being nigh-indestructible to make boss fights impossible to lose
Failing to realize/acknowledge that your dps tanks(
) as a result of that, which can be an issue in time-based fights like the mechs or Skeletron there is a gameplay purpose for that, it turns out
sand umbra
would you like me to roast the other four classless weapons as well
I'm more than welcoming to being inclusive here
cobalt pewter
lmao
foggy plover
(tank is still viable)
pine star
Roast 3 of them
craggy stratus
15% bonus damage is fine
pine star
Don't roast Astheticus
dapper coral
why are we talking about this again?
sand umbra
actually yeah
wait a minute
glacial kettle
Roast Aestheticus for being too strong for a weapon that slows down enemies, homes, and doesn't proc summoner nerf?
sand umbra
this isn't the summoner penalty thing
dapper coral
is it in vague relation to that one sugg that's already in voting by this point
whole sedge
yeah didn't this start cause of the summoner penalty
sand umbra
summoner penalty thing already got pushed to voting
sand umbra
all-inclusive classless wep roasting will come another time, I suppose 
for now: good by e
🛫
pine star
See ya