Yes
#suggestions-discussion
violet dagger
finite drift
ok
finite drift
check out, is it good?
violet dagger
yes
grammar is a bit 
but I can tell english isn't your first language so that's fine
tawny garden
the wording is a biiiit dodgy, but it's good
craggy stratus
nerfing atlantis when not making profaned guardian has more resistance to it
finite drift
im not very good at anglish
finite drift
@craggy stratus 
craggy stratus
scal has resistance to celestus?
cobalt pewter
No?
finite drift
idk, my last SCal fight was month ago
cobalt pewter
If scal has resistance to celestus, I sure will always drop my stealth rogue runs post yharon
dapper coral
i mean, if a levi weapon even has a chance of viability against nuggets, it's a problem with the weapon, not the nuggets 
weak field
I think scal had 66% resistance to the smol scythe from celestus
craggy stratus
and make atlantis worse for fighting bosses pre ML
dapper coral
if it was at that tier already, then it shouldn't have been that strong in the first place
it's not making it worse, it's making it its intended tier
zenith hazel
scal doesn't resist celestus
finite drift
@dapper coral i`ve used Atlantis for almost every Bfight after Levi, and most of them was totally cyberbullied by it 
weak field
Huh
dapper coral
that's what i'm sayin
if it's already this strong, there are more problems that cannot be solved by just giving a resistance
weak field
Never mind it's apotheosis
zenith hazel
I'll be the judge of that
radiant meadow
Sepulcher hearts have a minor celestus resist and that's about it
for Celestus
SCal herself and the brothers only resist sons of yharon afaik
rose jewel
For the crown jewel suggestion does that fall under buff early bosses
weak field
And 1/3 from apotheosis' main projectile
cobalt pewter
Well it is the only thing that can shred hearts on spam
radiant meadow
Apoth resist was removed
tawny garden
For the crown jewel suggestion does that fall under buff early bosses
uh, it might
weak field
Huh, then someone has to update the wiki
radiant meadow
Since Apoth is like post scal now
cobalt pewter
For the crown jewel suggestion does that fall under buff early bosses
Crown Jewel is Rev+
Rover said it's gucci
zenith hazel
@finite drift can you provide a vid?
rose jewel
Ok I wasn’t sure
hollow shell
He sent a snippit earlier
zenith hazel
alright then
finite drift
of ProfGuards?
tawny garden
Crown Jewel is Rev+
oh ye, fuck, forgot about that caveat
I should
radiant meadow
or effer maybe
zenith hazel
can you provide the loadout you were using too?
finite drift
@craggy stratus i playing mage, with hydrothermic armor, absorber, mana flower, Asgards Valor, Seraph Tracers, Sigil of Calamitas , Deific Amulet and Ambrosial Ampoule
@zenith hazel
craggy stratus
remove the ping in quote
finite drift
@zenith hazel and all of this accessories was Warding
only Mana Flower was Menacing
i`ve tried to test it without damage buffs, and result was the same, Prof.Guardian dies very quickly anyways
radiant meadow
Have you tried any other weapons?
And how does Atlantis fare against other bosses?
finite drift
before main guardian, i`ve tried the swarmer to kill other guardians
@radiant meadow i said that i`ve used atlantis on every Hmode Boss fight , and it does very well
finite drift
yes
cobalt pewter
Which ones
finite drift
Nuclear Fury only
radiant meadow
Nuclear Fury also is like 50 times less risky.
cobalt pewter
Try augur or effer
finite drift
and it does good, but i think that Atlantis was better in damage
finite drift
Honestly, just try more magic weapons around that tier that aren't last prism
@cobalt pewter i dont have the last prism tbh :p
cobalt pewter
Okay, try augur or effervescence
finite drift
okay, but i must craft it
lemme few minutes
oh, i need to kill moon lord again to obtain luminite 
cobalt pewter
You can just cheat them in for testing purposes ig
tawny garden
Cheat Sheet best mod
finite drift
well i`ve recorded it, and i can say that Augur is doing better than atlantis, and kills guardians much faster.
but still, i think that Atlantis should be nerfed, because i used it to kill almost every hardmode boss without any problems
tawny garden
maybe the guardians should be buffed
dapper coral
nerfed 
cobalt pewter
but still, i think that Atlantis should be nerfed, because i used it to kill almost every hardmode boss without any problems
This would need to be tested separately
e.g. Atlantis vs Moon Lord compared to other mage weapons post plant
tawny garden
hm, is there much point to sugging Profaned Guardians be demoted to miniboss status?
cobalt pewter
They aren't?
sinful steeple
If they were a miniboss that could imply them Kool-Aid Manning through the wall and snapping my neck while I'm beating a scorn eater to death
Since like the only miniboss that doesn't spawn randomly effectively spawns randomly
hollow shell
Ehh @fresh stone just kinda seems redundant when we already have the kits
fresh stone
they have pretty low drop rates from the kits, and by the time you can make the Angler Kit/Supreme Bait and Tackle Kit, these are dropped by bosses that are about the same power level as you
dense ferry
Oh, Atlantis nerf
I kinda agree with that one, correct setup you can melt Hardmode easily
sinful steeple
I don't think DS is ever the same power level as you
Really easy boss that you can use Arma on even if you can't dodge because it's not gonna do an attack that doesn't completely miss
fresh stone
yeah that makes sense
but I always have trouble grinding these kits and their drops so i thought it would be a good idea
sinful steeple
You could pretty easily beat DS when you spawn because you spawn with weapons other than copper shortsword in Calam
dapper coral
plus you don't really need the kits right away
so you can easily be like, post-evil bosses and just explode DS 57 times for kits instead
sinful steeple
And when you kill DS once you get access to weapons that destroy it like seafoam bomb
fresh stone
i was thinking that quest fish/potion fish can be a bit grindy so it would help
zenith hazel
is fishing that crucial around desert scourge tier?
fresh stone
i always start early for ingredients/crates
sleek turret
just armaggedon + DS/AS for a while.
hollow shell
but that's like really early
fresh stone
yeah arm can negate this issue
finite drift
i could made the cell phone before skeletron 
fresh stone
once you have access to double jump/flight arm DS can be super easy
finite drift
with D.Scourge dropped angler items
fresh stone
but you need the tally counter
sinful steeple
Cell phone requires a post-Skele drop though
cobalt pewter
Nazar? You can technically spawn SG earlier and farm ebonian slimes for nazar
fresh stone
i always forget the tally counter/metal detector when im tryna craft cell phone
cobalt pewter
Or the tally counter you mean?
zenith hazel
if you're trying to get the fishing accs that early on, especially pre-DS then that's a bit overkill
fresh stone
but nazar is for ankh shield
fresh stone
me too
finite drift
fresh stone
yeah you dont really need them until fishing is a necesity for potions
dapper coral
i mean, i would say fishing probably starts at about evil bosses/skelly, so yeah probably a bit early
fresh stone
plus you need the gob tinkerer to combine them
zenith hazel
yea, so it's fair to farm DS for said fishing accs
fresh stone
yeah
zenith hazel
and besides, farming DS isn't too hard by any means, as he's still the second boss in the game
fresh stone
once you have beaten DS and have sea king its pretty easy to farm
zenith hazel
yea so I don't think it's necessary to add another way of getting these accs
considering the current way of getting them is already pretty straightforward
fresh stone
yeah
dapper coral
so then, do you wanna remove the sugg?
finite drift
i`ve used Atlantis at Golem too 
and his altar spawned on spikes, so i could just break them and get altar to my house
rocky needle
Uh okay so I'll get back with Microwave/Terrarian data in a moment, but during testing I didn't notice it was about to turn night-time, she switched to night Providence at like 40% hp and she still dropped the dye. Shouldn't it be changed so she only drops the dye if the whole fight is fought during the night? I could see someone starting the fight in the evening and finishing it as night begins to cheese it.
craggy stratus
kinda reminded me of burden breaker on skeletron prime
hollow shell
(aight I'm not sure about what I just said actually)
No, nevermind
It is
That's a bug
rocky needle
my mod might be out of date lemme check before I report it
rocky needle
Okay tmod is being dumb so let's shelve that for now. The data from Microwave/Terrarian against daytime hell Providence using:
Solar Armour, Mechanical Glove, Fire Gauntlet, HoTE (hidden), Bloody Worm Scarf, Yoyo Bag, Seraph Tracers, Celestial Shell (all menacing)
3:15 for the Microwave to get her to 50%
2:31 for the Terrarian to get her to 50%
Despite the Microwave shredding things better than the Terrarian, it actually performed worse against Rev Providence. So there's probably no need to change either (but personally I would still like a Terrarian buff, yoyos don't stand a chance against provi otherwise :P)
I'd upload the clips but the file sizes are too big and I cba to bother with Youtube
this was with godmode and using all adrenalines btw, so in reality they're both gonna be a bit slower
unreal viper
Arguably it still needs a buff considering the massive power jump pml.
rocky needle
Okay the Providence dye drop was because my version was outdated I think, just updated and tested it and it didn't drop again.
Arguably it still needs a buff considering the massive power jump pml.
Absolutely, there needs to be an elemental yoyo imo.
unreal viper
If it does significantly worse than other options pml then it needs a buff.
Now time for more tests, fun.
rocky needle
You know something's gone wrong when yoyos might genuinely have a better time against night-time Providence than daytime Providence, simply because the Guardians phase is gone and the fight is supposed to last 5 or so minutes (granted the Terrarian would be lucky to do it in 5)
radiant meadow
Night time providence also hits way harder and gives stronger debuffs on hit
And has a more complex attack pattern
rocky needle
The challenge for yoyos is the insane healing the guardians can give to Providence, since the dps is so low Provi can get back up to 70%+ health, nearly doubling the length of the fight. I understand that Providence herself is far more challenging at night, but overall it might be a shorter fight simply because she never heals. This is just a theory though I'll test it in a moment.
sand umbra
Absolutely, there needs to be an elemental yoyo imo.
please no
the elemental set is already fat as hell as it is
swift wharf
melee has like, 3 weapons
swift wharf
yeah i forgot about shiv
sand umbra
bruhhh
byeah
Ark, Shiv, Lance, and Disk
that's four melee options in the same set
(which, in my entirely unprofessional opinion, may be a bit much as it is)
and the reason Terrarian hasn't been buffed is because there's a hilarious accessory in the game that makes proper balancing on yo-yos impossible
sand umbra
complete with useless counterweights
it's honestly upsetting how legitimately useless counterweights are in 99.3% of scenarios and I don't know what to do with them
whole sedge
still have yet to even learn why counterweights exist and how you're supposed to use the damn things
rocky needle
don't they stop the yoyo from bouncing around as much when you hit the target?
I didn't think they were for hitting targets, but rather to give control of the yoyo - hence 'counterweight'
hollow shell
I don't think they have any effect on the base yoyo's movement, but then again I haven't used yoyos much
rocky needle
nah they don't seem to have any effect on the yoyo's movement
hollow shell
RIP
rocky needle
the Terraria wiki seems to imply they're for dealing damage, which is just hilarious
sand umbra
yeah counterweights are completely irrelevant to the actual throw
whole sedge
they're kind of just completely irrelevant in general
lavish cloak
What’s their purpose?
sand umbra
they don't even do that
they orbit around you and whenever they hit an enemy or tile they just change the direction they're going in
lavish cloak
Damn
sand umbra
so they get maybe one or two hits in and by that point you're already getting bullied
lavish cloak
It’d be cool if they were like attached to your yo-yo and they’d spin around it in a big circle and it’d do like 25% of your yo-yo’s damage
sand umbra
oh my god great minds do think alike that concept just came to me like literally 2 seconds after I said my last message
lavish cloak
Big brain game
sand umbra
but for all intents and purposes I'll pretend it was just you that came up with it
so congratulations you've given me inspiration
lavish cloak
:D
That would be a cool concept, and it wouldn’t be busted because like if you had a malice “the demonite yoyo” which I think does 16 damage, your counterweight would only be doing 4
I think it would make yo-yos better at dealing with groups of enemies since I find yo-yos to be lacking there
Also I find it lacking that 80% of vanilla yoyos aren’t unique in anyway other than that they do more damage and maybe inflict a debuff
lavish cloak
Yeah that’s really the reality tbh
sand umbra
although I already put in the effort to fix that part and will probably do so again just to make sure each one is interesting enough
lavish cloak
I was thinking of like amarok and hel-zone were unique but all they do is inflict debuffs
Why did relogic think it was ok to copy paste the same yoyo throughout the games progression and only change its damage, how long it stays out, and if it maybe or maybe doesn’t inflict a debuff
lavish cloak
Then again we got Queen Slime and Master Mode
sand umbra
we're talking about the torch luck fellow here, after all 
sand umbra
anywho, I think I've rambled on long enough here
the point I was originally making is that the Yoyo Bag makes any sort of legitimate buff to Terrarian a nightmare because of how it works, and adding an elemental yo-yo would come with its own set of potential problems
lavish cloak
Yeah I see your idea
radiant meadow
Then just make a post moon lord yoyo that's not themed after elemental?
lavish cloak
I guess that works, but that makes the Terrarian obsolete
radiant meadow
It already is
radiant meadow
Like to put it bluntly, all of ML's vanilla drops suck ass except Last Prism.
lavish cloak
Yeah you’re not wrong
sand umbra
Then just make a post moon lord yoyo that's not themed after elemental?
something something Dragonfling
radiant meadow
SDMG pales in comparison to the likes of OCB and Shredder iirc.
lavish cloak
Damn it does?
radiant meadow
Celebration MK2 doesn't exist in this context.
lavish cloak
Oh right
Off topic but would a suggestion for AS to be resprited to fit the new enemies added to the sulfurous sea in 1.4.4 be against the rules. It’s not because the sprites bad, it’s lovely. But it doesn’t fit in with the new enemies of the sulfer sea
sand umbra
implying 1.3 Celebration is any better
radiant meadow
AS isn't an Acid Rain enemy.
lavish cloak
Yeah but belching coral and amazonian crab aren’t either, yet they fit it with the Acid Rain crew
radiant meadow
Honestly, I don't know why they aren't part of AR
I think AS already has concept art for a resprite.
whole sedge
i thought that was a christmas tree at first
radiant meadow
You get your face eaten off for Christmas.
dapper coral
it do look like a christmas tree
tawny garden
....yeah
lavish cloak
I like it, but that still doesn’t fit all that well
tawny garden
a really weird one
dapper coral
kinda spooky, i sorta dig it
frail mantle
the devs have stated that they don't want the whole biome to use one single palette
lavish cloak
I guess that’s valid
radiant meadow
Ye, that's a minor issue the Sunken Sea has.
and why Amidias' items were resprited to be of a completely new palette/style
lavish cloak
Then again all of the Astral Infections mobs share the same palette
But then again I guess that fits canonically
Since they have to look that way because an infection wouldn’t just seemingly change colors when it infected a different host
barren crow
is it weird that my two favorite biomes are the sunken sea and the sulphurous sea?
barren crow
oh my bad
unreal viper
It's okay ofc.
tawny garden
- no, that's not weird at all
- not the place to talk about that ye
barren crow
ok
unreal viper
Is an aquatic heart reowrk incoming?
radiant meadow
no
unreal viper
Sugg time.
whole sedge
unreal viper
frick
hollow shell
I would like you to add at least one line break to your suggestion's reason @unreal viper
Perhaps two
Reduce the wall of textitude
tawny garden
wow yea
whole sedge
holy christ that's a long sugg
sleek turret
jesus.
ashen warren
chungus sugma
sleek turret
well, reminders me the day I made a suggestion to fix Slime God's Bigger Slimes, which was a big wall of text.
viscid dagger
Alright yall im back again. So regarding Boss Rush. Its a challenge right? The bosses get harder as you go on. So how about items that allow you to summon in each wave of Boss Rush separately. This makes it so that, say, you dont have to go waves 1, 2, and 3 to practice against a boss on stage 4. Kind of a small change the way I see it, but helpful for struggling players
viscid dagger
Alright cool. Ill post my sugg later on as I gotta finish HW now
hollow shell
aight
dapper coral
perhaps not an item, but maybe a mode on the Terminus?
since items just for that purpose seems a bit bloaty to me
hollow shell
That could be asking too much from the programmers
If we could add modes to Terminus somewhat simply
then we would have put the curses on it
dapper coral
that's fair
tawny garden
uh
hallow kraken
resprite sugs no
radiant meadow
yeah that's pretty much the resprite don't nailed on the head
wooden wedge
@robust shuttle read the pinned suggs doc
tawny garden
@robust shuttle you can't sugg a resprite based just on poor quality
robust shuttle
shit, my bad.
hollow shell
You can go into the art server and talk about in pixel-art or general-media
not here in suggestions tho
robust shuttle
o
radiant meadow
Scarlet Devil is a reference
hollow shell
This is true
radiant meadow
What does the reference look like?
robust shuttle
It's just a reference to one of her titles.
hollow shell
I don't know if it's a reference to a weapon
robust shuttle
I'm not sure tho.
hollow shell
wait yes it is
ashen warren
touhou reference
tawny garden
also maybe #459252132068065280 btw, not for this weapon though
robust shuttle
interesting.
ashen warren
#deleted-channel
wh
robust shuttle
I've facepalmed myself.
radiant meadow
That means you're not in art if it says deleted channel
tawny garden
ashen warren
you can link other server's channels?
radiant meadow
yes, <#ChannelIDHere>
dapper coral
it would appear so
tawny garden
ye, <#id>
ashen warren
interesting
hollow shell
(right-click channel with Developer mode on to get the ID)
tawny garden
e.g. [#459252132068065280](/guild/225030931008847874/channel/459252132068065280/)
ashen warren
that's very cool ngl
tawny garden
((you can also cross-server ping, e.g. @dusty stirrup, @dusty stirrup))
hollow shell
(Ah I can't see that)
radiant meadow
(It's Phup)
tawny garden
I created offtopic
heady storm
violet dagger
:hahayech:
tawny garden
or, should I say, #294859941032755202
civic pond
there's not even any official art for sd from what i know anyways(?) 
serene fox
cobalt pewter
Uuhhh
hollow shell
@ashen warren booooo
serene fox
@ashen warren you need a reason
hollow shell
no joke suggestions
hollow shell
Get off the stage
serene fox
still a meme suggestion
hollow shell
I mean
to be fair, we're the ones that added the toilet
but like
This suggestion is also quite low quality with the needless specificity ("2 seconds", "400 damage")
and insubstantial reasoning ('it would be funny and cool and unique')
I bet somebody could make a "Weaponize the Auric Toilet" suggestion work if they tried
but nnnot this
rose jewel
More of a meme suggestion
pine night
isnt the whole point of the auric toilet to be completely useless even though its hard to craft
hollow shell
Maybe?
rose jewel
The last suggestion is really long
violet dagger
Tbh not really an issue
cobalt pewter
Thomas be literally writing a thesis on world evils
But anyway
On-hit effects can probably do with damage / duration scaling (the latter in the case of panic necklace) relative to damage taken
That's the only way I can think of making onhit effects worth it
cobalt pewter
dapper coral
oh, this thing that exists
sand umbra
the die is cast
dapper coral
i forgot about this
dapper coral
have you talked about this before? i feel like i've seen you ranting about it before
sand umbra
I feel like I have, but I also get the distinct feeling that if I did, nobody knew what I was talking about
this is one of the mechanics Calamity introduces that is never communicated anywhere in the game or virtually anywhere on the wiki past this one specific page, despite actively changing the way the game plays
sand umbra
I recently tried Rev Cultist with start-of-Hardmode gear, including multiple weapons across like 3 different classes
he's gotten pretty fuckin' beefy since the last time I tried, lemme tell ya
cobalt pewter
Eh, maybe skyfin is just broken on stealth
Imma try goin on cultist pre mech as mage ig
Later
hollow idol
I only noticed the mechanic after Night Provi started taking like no damage around 10% after shredding through the first 90
sand umbra
yeah just in case the base mechanic wasn't enough of a bruh moment
Nighttime Provi gets a special megaboost to the amount of DR she can gain from this mechanic
dapper coral
the difference is, it actually makes a difference for night provi because it's actually noticeable
this is not
sand umbra
then
what's
the point.
if it's not noticeable or even really effective against on-tier equipment and only exists to mitigate the rush from steamrolling bosses with later gear, what's the point of it
dapper coral
yeah, that's fine
i'm not saying it's a good mechanic when applied to the rest of the bosses as it is rn
just that it works for provi because that's the whole point of the fight
sand umbra
it doesn't even make sense for Nighttime Provi, to be completely blunt
see my above point
dapper coral
if it's not noticeable or even really effective against on-tier equipment and only exists to mitigate the rush from steamrolling bosses with later gear, what's the point of it
this?
sand umbra
how in the name of God are you going to kill nighttime Provi with on-tier gear in under 4 minutes
that's not a thing
that is not on the list of things that are happening
dapper coral
it's meant to be an endurance fight iirc, you're not supposed to be able to defeat her in under 4
hollow shell
smh Thomas you need to include a summary in your sugg message
sand umbra
summary mode engaged
hollow shell
is that your summary
sand umbra
were you expecting more?
hollow shell
You could at least like list out your main ideas
dapper coral
it usually helps to have a TL;DR
because people are lazy and won't click on a link a lot of the time
sand umbra
if you ask me, that's their fault for being lazy, but either way extended summary a bit
anything else would be redundant because the points are already covered at length in the mini-thesis I wrote
dapper coral
well, their laziness hurts you so better do as much as you can to negate it that's alright ig
radiant meadow
the point of night prov dr is to prevent people just shredding her for the easy rewards
sand umbra
I personally don't see the point of making the player go through hell no matter what stage of the game they're at just to look slightly fancier, but I digress
night Provi is her own dissertation waiting to happen and I'll get to that some other time
ashen warren
can i suggest for a channel
dapper coral
sure
distant gyro
yes
dapper coral
if you've got a good enough reason for it
distant gyro
and as long as it's not meme 2: the rebirth
ashen warren
i thought of suggesting a channel relating to the modding discusssion
cobalt pewter
dapper coral
like, a coder/modder hub?
ashen warren
yes
hollow shell
You could talk about developing your own mods in #other-mod-talk if you want
Your mods are indeed other mods :P
ashen warren
ah okay thanks then
hollow shell
Would probably be more productive to talk about that stuff in the tModLoader Discord itself tho
dapper coral
i've heard tml is... not friendly to new modders
ashen warren
dapper coral
at all
ashen warren
true
hollow shell
np
(I have no experience on the matter)
radiant meadow
Other mod talk sometimes becomes programmer talk
You can also post starting a personal mod stuff in general media
But other mod talk is fine
sand umbra
tML server tends to. not be the greatest to newcomers, yeah
ashen warren
i see
sand umbra
for a wide variety of reasons that vary depending on who you ask and/or what your experience there is
radiant meadow
Last time I asked a question there was how to make fountains. That didn't turn out well
dapper coral
i mean, i was kinda thinking the same about making a modder's/coder's channel since there are quite a few modders about these days, and if #other-mod-talk gets cluttered with code talk then that probably doesn't help the flow of any regular othermod conversations
same with genmedia
sand umbra
as someone who basically only shows up outside of suggchats to ramble in othermod talk about things that annoy me and why and how I plan to meticulously pick them apart and fix them I can get behind this wholeheartedly
radiant meadow
Also means another channel to patrol
ashen warren
yeah thats the downside i guess
dapper coral
the upside of that is, it would be pretty easy to ascertain what is ontopic and what isn't
basically, there's no harm in suggesting it at all, ducc
dapper coral
finite drift
lol, atlantis does 0.1% to Providence per hit
golden narwhal
Oh, that sugg exists
finite drift
to nerf atlantis?
golden narwhal
Ye
golden narwhal
By 1500, you mean a single hit or dps
finite drift
dps
finite drift
but it kills profGuard with no problem
golden narwhal
Might try it myself
finite drift
i mean MAIN profGuard, not all of them
golden narwhal
Uhh
finite drift
guard that cannot be killed before all 2 isn`t
golden narwhal
Could you try to provide a kill time for the whole fight perhaps
finite drift
okay
whole sedge
yeah main prof guardian is only 1/3rd of the fight
finite drift
but at this moment, i can`t because of school
frail mantle
1,5k dps is quite far from being good on Prov
finite drift
frail mantle
with a glass setup you can pretty easily get around 13k dps on her
whole sedge
Even with meh weapons you can get upwards of 13k yeah
frail mantle
although seeing as Atlantis is pre-plant 1,5k is probably still too high
finite drift
@frail mantle we r talking about profGuardians
golden narwhal
Yea, needs double checking, considering he also said a minute kill time
whole sedge
He was likely referencing
lol, atlantis does 0.1% to Providence per hit
finite drift
@golden narwhal this is a minute kill time when i used damage buffs, without them it`s need to be checked
i`ve recorded it so i just need to watch
dapper coral
honestly, i don't think it's a good idea to be testing atlantis against post-ML weapons
whole sedge
yeah keep it in its tier really
dapper coral
seeing as the point is to show how OP it is for its tier
so test it against other post-plant magic weapons
whole sedge
Weapons are balanced around their tier not the one 8 bosses ahead of it
dapper coral
atlantis is magic, right
cobalt pewter
Yes
whole sedge
yeah it's magic
serene fox
that got killed already 
dapper coral
when you get a chance, test it against some other post-plant magic weapons
finite drift
@dapper coral yes, it is
cobalt pewter
that got killed already
Ripperoni indeed
whole sedge
stuff like astralachnea staff, razorpine, terra ray and blizzard staff are that tier
serene fox
yeah those
cobalt pewter
Oh ye
golden narwhal
So ... ❗ for now?
serene fox
thing is, atlantis is meant to be a high-risk high-reward weapon
dapper coral
ye
cobalt pewter
Isn't Blizzard Staff post-Golem? At least according to Leinfors
finite drift
i`ve already upgraded terra ray
cobalt pewter
According to him, all PM and FM gear are tiered post golem
serene fox
yeah but this is calamity so w/e
frail mantle
blizzard isn't post-brick shithouse in tMod
whole sedge
I think they can be obtained right after plant
dapper coral
is the anahita's arpeggio magic too?
cobalt pewter
Arpeggio is magik
finite drift
yes
@serene fox okay
thing is, atlantis is meant to be a high-risk high-reward weapon
golden narwhal
Basically code stuff
serene fox
yeah pretty much
frail mantle
yea this one is impossible cause code fuckery
tawny garden
@heady storm delete or exclamate
tawny garden
Ye.
heady storm
Commited deletus.
sand umbra
uhhhhh
so this sugg is valid, technically
but
do you realize how fucking enormous Provi is
sturdy geyser
provi is slightly smaller than moon lord
craggy stratus
the hitbox he meant
sturdy geyser
and a projectile based fight
sand umbra
there's a very good reason why a boss with Ice Queen movement who's got about twice the overall hitbox of one doesn't have contact damage
sturdy geyser
it'd turn a very good projectile based fight into absolute hell to fight
rocky needle
Providence contact damage
dry latch
I know calam doesn't balance around arma but that'd just be pure evil
craggy stratus
yup
idk how it would "emphasize it being a mini bullet hell and endurance fight rather than being more aggressive"
rocky needle
Her not having contact damage emphasises the bullet hell tbh. You should be focussing on the projectiles, instead of dodging her.
Scal's contact damage only comes into play when she charges, so it doesn't take away from the bullet hell aspect.
sleek turret
So, I think that Providence contact damage would make the fight more difficult, since she occupes a lot of place on the screen. (1366x768 resolutions have this problem)
Also like Gan said, it would be pure evil when fighting her on armageddon.
tepid root
it being like 1 damage sounds like if itd be implemented itd be solely to fuck over nohitters
sleek turret
yeah.
tepid root
but yeah providence contact damage in general sounds like itd be a load of bullshit unless her movement was completely reworked
sleek turret
yes.
carmine island
Provi contact damage.
As if being inside her when she fires projectiles wasnt ready a death sentence cocoon bullet hell
tawny garden
@ashen warren you gotta have a reason in your sugg
craggy stratus
is the suggestion allowed
tawny garden
in its current state, no
craggy stratus
ah ok
tawny garden
there's nothing in the rules prohibiting this sort of thing from being suggested
although it does sound weird to me
dry latch
nah, is future content
craggy stratus
i thought the rule was changed
tawny garden
that's not a reason
craggy stratus
yeah, but rn such suggestion is not allowed
ashen warren
that’s dumb
tawny garden
ashen warren
its literally a suggestion
tawny garden
well
sand umbra
suggest about stuff already in the mod
god knows there's virtually endless sugg material
craggy stratus
if in the future, the dev doesnt implement what you have suggested
then you can suggest it again
ashen warren
it doesn’t say anything about it
sand umbra
tawny garden
damn, I really thought your sugg said "yharon"
craggy stratus
i was confused when philo said the reasoning could be better
tawny garden
maybe I need to get my drugs again
ashen warren
lmao
sand umbra
again, there's plenty of material for suggesting that things already in the mod be changed to be better
it's literally the whole reason this is like the only trio of channels I care about here past othermod 
craggy stratus
like you can suggest yharon holding a lightsaber
carmine island
Its crazy how thoroughly you have to read that sugg doc
tawny garden
like you can suggest yharon holding a lightsaber
n o
sand umbra
it's over, Terrarian
tawny garden
Its crazy how thoroughly you have to read that sugg doc
you don't
it's just a list
sand umbra
I burned the high ground
sand umbra
then you've been burned
ashen warren
ig i have to delete the cool suggestion
carmine island
Many people have had to delete cool suggestions
sand umbra
you ain't the first and you will most certainly not be the last
craggy stratus
or rename skeletron prime to General Grevious
tawny garden
these cool™️ suggestions don't usually have any effect on anything and sometimes are "cool" only to the person who thought of it, so they're not allowed
craggy stratus
ok enough joke
carmine island
Cool sugg that always gets deleted is music suggestions.
I understand why tho
though there is a mod on the browser that adds the abyss miniboss theme
sand umbra
what i find hilarious is that at least a few of these don'ts induce double standards but that's a topic for another time
tawny garden
sand umbra
ok boomer
frail mantle
that is indeed the mantis lords boss fight from hollow knight
craggy stratus
we get the idea
violet dagger
Reasoning is meh
But it can be a good idea if the reasoning is improved
Since rn it's just it'd be cool
craggy stratus
fix the reasoning, and it will be good
maybe you can mention that 2 staffs are identical except the color
tawny garden
Reasoning is meh
there isn't any
wooden wedge
@lost bobcat you need a reason for your sugg, and you should also read the pinned don'ts doc
ashen warren
i need confirmation if scals bullet hell "fading in" brimstone blast does damage to the player before it explodes into smaller darts
if they do, I would propose them to not deal any damage prior to exploding since they just spawn in very close to the player and you can just barely react
radiant meadow
@shut idol Providence has no contact damage to prevent unfair hits with her big hitbox and movement patterns.
Giving her a low contact damage detracts from the fight's focus as a projectile oriented boss and only serves as an annoyance.
shut idol
makes sense
cobalt pewter
kek
tawny garden
eahc
@near shuttle
- your suggestion needs to have its title at the top on a separate line
- you need to have a loooot more reasons for why it needs to be removed, as it's one of the key vanilla changes
- that's kinda the point of the summon damage reduction, cause hybrid summoner can be (and sometimes is) op
though you might have a point there that it nerfs it too much to make it completely unviable, I'll give you that
hollow shell
wew
Three suggs in posting and they all got pinged
tawny garden
pretty much every sugg gets pinged now, actually, except for suggs that are made by people who are familiar with the system
tawny garden
"a bit"
cobalt pewter
I mean the points can definitely be shortened
near shuttle
I don't want it to be removed just have the possibilities to choose if I want it or not.
tawny garden
well, if you give an option to bail out of something which is detrimental, everyone will bail out
near shuttle
not necessarily, player who don't care about summoner wont, and hardcore player generally like this kind of stuff, it's just a way to make summoner more accessible to new/not so good player.
zenith hazel
yea but it breaks balance pretty hard
violet dagger
Thomas's Sugg is so long and with the Google doc I thought there were only 3 suggs
Since I thought this Sugg was the dont's pin
tawny garden
smoky wagon
since when do bosses have a DPS cap
i haven't played in awhile
seems like it would make farming bosses from earlier in progression needlessly time consuming
dapper coral
oh really?
chilly solstice
I actually had my own thoughts on reactive DR that also basically sum up to it being a bad mechanic.
My main issue with dynamic DR is that any effort from the player to increase the damage output (i. e. reforging for damage, trying to aim more accurately, trading risk for reward by getting closer to the boss) is diminished into oblivion beyond a certain point due to there being an arbitrary "intended killtime" or something. Why not simply increase defence or make a constant DR that's a bit higher than normal? I really want to hear the devs' reasoning behind dynamic DR.
zenith hazel
how is pure summoner hard for a casual player?
dapper coral
brav sniped ig
zenith hazel
all classes are equally strong
dry latch
zenith hazel
also @near shuttle at the very least, edit your original suggestion instead of making a new one
and the answer is still no, we'd prefer not reducing the damage reduction
as mentioned already, hybrid summoner was busted until there was a penalty added recently
dry latch
tho come to think of it, wasn't it just 25% before?
dapper coral
it was
dapper coral
it's 50% now, yeah
which sounds large, but clearly hybrid summoner was too OP even with 25% to warrant making it any lower
near shuttle
if you say so.. I was just gonna edit the mods file anyways so no big deal ¯_(ツ)_/¯
chilly solstice
Edit the... What?
near shuttle
change the stat manually.
chilly solstice
Just use CheatSheet lol
near shuttle
sorry I'm french the "e" slip in by accident
ho, you can do that with CheatSheet ? thanks, I wasn't aware of this.
you where just kidding isn't it ?
unreal viper
I mean.
The circlet and fearmonger armor were op, but from what I've heard, mutliclass generally wasn't used.
That's what pretty much all the people who I asked told me. I ask a few no-htters because I'd heard that the damage penalty was going up.
dapper coral
protip: nohitters are the worst people to ask for general gameplay strategies/advice, especially in stuff like this
unreal viper
Frick moment.
dapper coral
byeah multiclass isn't used too too often iirc
craggy stratus
arent they best in asking for weapon tho
dapper coral
definitely not
sand umbra
nohitters are in fact not very good frames of reference
unreal viper
I remember it not being used much.
dapper coral
nohitting is a completely different mindset
unreal viper
But idk.
sand umbra
because weapons that are god for nohitting may absolutely suck in all other contexts
ashen warren
massive bias too
dapper coral
not to mention cheat sheet exists for such mindsets
sand umbra
see also: Drataliornus
unreal viper
I'd guess that nobody knows.
ashen warren
xd
dapper coral
anyway though
zenith hazel
byeah
dapper coral
point is that the multiclass summoner nerf ain't getting changed
sand umbra
although I do think Drat has become way more usable to the common player over the years
zenith hazel
gee I wonder why
ashen warren
isn't the right click very powerful
zenith hazel
not like drat underwent a change with the primary fire
sand umbra
right-click is hella good last I remember
and even prior to the change right-click was hella good regardless because it didn't trigger Backfire iirc
and then left-click got changed to be like
usable
to anyone else
unreal viper
My summon penalty sugg is stuck in purgatory rn.
sand umbra
heh?
unreal viper
Has the green check but nothing's been done for a while.
unreal viper
I hope that the decrease in suggs lets them catch up.
sand umbra
a sugg is sent, typically approved, nothing happens
'sbeen that way for months
but alas, not something I'd like to get into rambling about here
unreal viper
The summon damage penalty sugg can't really be proved either way without immense work.
sleek turret
well, if people could think better or alredy have a formuled plan for suggestions it could decrease the number of aproved suggestion per day.
sand umbra
unfortunately, I can't really do vague
cobalt pewter
sand umbra
not my style and the situation with Calamity as of the current time calls for more...specification
cobalt pewter
tfw none of my suggs has ever delivered from since star req was lowered
ig my suggs just suck kek
sand umbra
pinpointing what's wrong, and more importantly how to fix it, has become a focus of mine over the past couple months
sleek turret
actually, make a suggestion but don't make it to be a wall of text, try to make it to be actually well-explained, show-off the important parts.
sand umbra
that's. what I do
the issue is that there's a lot to unpack with a lot of my suggs (see also: reactive DR and the thesis on world evils)
on top of that, I don't do concise. it's just not in my vocabulary no matter how hard I try to put it there
i.e. my suggs become walls of text because I'm bothering to explain them in-depth
craggy stratus
dapper coral
do you think a DPS test would be warranted?
craggy stratus
most likely, yes
frail mantle
you'd have to ask Dan about that
dapper coral
@open umbra you gotta format it properly, and also it's a patron weapon
radiant meadow
If it were up to me, I'd remove the UP thing entirely
open umbra
What's the problem with a patron weapon? 
dapper coral
you gotta ask the patron donor, i.e. @junior tendon
and if they would rather not have that changed, then the sugg is a no-go
open umbra
ohh, ok
frail mantle
yea you just need permission from the dedicatee is all
junior tendon
what
open umbra
about my suggestion?
dapper coral
check the latest sugg in posting
junior tendon
oh I see
uhhh that's not possible
game limitations
you can't put channeling on right click
(channeling is the thing where you hold out a weapon, NOT autoswing)
open umbra
junior tendon
an earlier version of the wep used distance calculation to determine which attack should be launched
as in how far the cursor was from the player
but that was jank as fuck
so I just did the same thing I did with the needle (in my mod), I made it do the alt attacks when holding up
also uh why would you merge the up and jump button
open umbra
So, to me, it's a melee weapon now then
junior tendon
that's gotta be annoying af in so many situations
frail mantle
ah, so it's a Crystyl-like scenario
junior tendon
and isn't really a valid reason to me tbh
dapper coral
i mean, you can unbind up or move it to something else innit
dry latch
bind it to right click?
thin burrow
crown jewel sugg has 69 votes
frail mantle
ok
frail mantle
dapper coral
actually i'm gonna delete this sugg now anyways, since Dan say no
craggy stratus
the adrenaline intermission time is gonna be too op
coarse trout
the suggestion about buffing onyx blast range makse sense
but you mention lowered dps
so maybe give times for the respective boss fight
like providence with onyx chain time
then the time for providence with another wep
idk i don't really do suggs
dapper coral
mm, i'll probably test provi with OCB versus elemental eruption and elemental blaster
maybe planetary annihilation too
dapper coral
then for yharon i'll do onyxia versus phangasm and alluvion, ig
craggy stratus
isnt the close range projectile, kinda reward player for staying close
coarse trout
ok
coarse trout
^
dapper coral
and especially for these kinds of bosses there's no way that you want to get close to them
coarse trout
like with the bubble weapon
the upgrade to the bubble gun
but the reward is much lower with the OCB than with it
craggy stratus
when yharon do the spinning and shoot out million fireballs, there is a small timeframe for you to blast onyxia with adrenaline
dapper coral
he also gets a lot of DR during that point
which means that your only effective window is blunted
anyway i'll do the dps tests later and add them in
ancient crow
the onyx shard projectile autodetonates after a short while?
craggy stratus
yup
dapper coral
it has a very short range
and wtf 40% DR that's a lot
didn't think it was that much
ancient crow
i used onxyia against yharon in expert mode and completely missed the fact that the onyx shards didn't connect
subtle oracle
I am so fond of this Sugg, the Onyx Blaster always felt risky to me.
Most of the time i preferred to go Ele eruption for close range and Onyx blaster for long range, the range of the Onyx blasts is truly aggravating
sleek turret
yeah, Onyx is way aggresive, although has a nice DPS.
swift fulcrum
pre rust and dust onyxia could actually hit yharon with its shards but now they despawn halfway through lol. As for ocb imo the blasts range is long enough for providence
sturdy geyser
what
rocky needle
It'd be really funny if it wasn't though and that's the whole suggestion
small talon
lemme guess, they fought them on normal mode. If so I've already found theyre problem
heady storm
@arctic sail Reasoning?
rocky needle
'Too weak'
craggy stratus
another victim of not reading the pin
glass sentinel
violet dagger
I really hope discord has a good Sugg system
In legitimately at the point where I think a quiz on the rules of a channel are needed
Or maybe it just throws the pins in your face
heady storm
@arctic sail proper formatting is also needed.
Example:
Buff Calamitas
(Your reasoning.)
You can create that space by holding shift and pressing the enter key after typing the title of your suggestion.
glass sentinel
and also specify the part of the fight to be buffed
like dont just say more attacks
drifting flicker
I feel like calamatis is fine, it's a good first foray into calamity endurance style fights, teaches the player to pace themselves in the fight. Buffing calamatis would make the boss feel a little inbalanced in its relative progression
gaunt quest
It's also expert which the mod is not balanced around lol
ancient mirage
is rogue really good against calamitas
ancient mirage
ok
glass sentinel
mhm i mean even when not in rev you have pretty powerful weps
ad then in rev you get sod
radiant meadow
(Spear of Destiny is all modes)
The only rev exclusive rogue weapon at that stage is Kelvin Catalyst iirc
whole sedge
Legendaries are rev exclusive but sod isn't legendary
hollow shell
(ayy, I know some people here would like the most recent changelog)
dapper coral
guess you're waiting forever then
foggy plover
^
heady storm
violet dagger
ashen warren
i need confirmation if scals bullet hell "fading in" brimstone blast does damage to the player before it explodes into smaller darts
I played against scal and confirmed that the brimstone fireblasts/gigablasts during the bullet hell phases can do damage to you before exploding which is pretty annoying since they home in on the player out of nowhere which caused a lot of cheap hits most of the time, not to mention even if you somehow manage to dodge it it will explode near to you which leaves little room to dodge
so may I propose a nerf for that?
ashen warren
7 minute posting cooldown cause I accidentally slipped enter while typing and deleted
violet dagger
you could've edited it
dapper coral
well, they're saying to combine those two together to get a new one
cobalt pewter
Yes
dapper coral
that's why it's got the ❗ innit
serene fox
(it is also worth noting the gigablasts scal shoots on default don't do damage prior to exploding to smaller darts as well)
really?
and yeah hellblasts snipes are annoying
dapper coral
wym default
serene fox
gigablasts are fine though
violet dagger
also you know what's annoying
when you finish a bullet hell
and instantly get charged at
it rarely happens
dapper coral
i think there are 2 suggs in voting about it rn
violet dagger
I just think that she should reset her pattern after the bullet hell
so she does the horizontal blasts
serene fox
I feel like that would make the fight really fucking boring
violet dagger
and if the suggs about making them not shoot unless she's aligned would work with that
radiant meadow
her pattern is really long
resetting after a bullet hell would just get way more boring ye
violet dagger
yeah ig
the suggs about making her not attack for a bit after bullet hells would help
serene fox
yeah
violet dagger
neither sugg made it yet
I remember there was once a sugg about making scal bullet hell stuff stay after the bullet hell ends
you can guess how well that sugg did
serene fox
no one starred that suggestion
serene fox
yeah provi has an enormous hitbox
and I don't really see the point of the suggestion if she's going to do 1 damage per hit
seems like it would just exist to piss you off
violet dagger
and the creator of it agreed that it was a p shit idea
serene fox
then why haven't they deleted it?
dapper coral
i may as well just delete it now
they agreed that it didn't make sense
but didn't do anything with it
violet dagger
bot will get it anyways
gaunt quest
Providence with contact damage sounds like hell lol
dapper coral
perhaps, but i feel like if we've established a sugg is literally pointless and the poster conceded it, then there's no point to leave it up
gaunt quest
That slime god summon weapon suggestion though lol
serene fox
back to the scal suggestion, nerfing it's speed seems fine, but completely getting rid of their hitboxes seems a bit much
gaunt quest
If they didn't have a hit box how would they hit you?
serene fox
darts
dapper coral
the point is that they explode and hit you, instead of yeeting you from the get go
serene fox
hellblasts are really the only ones that snipe you
not gigas
since they're already fairly slow
serene fox
byeah, being able to completely bypass hellblasts and gigas seems a bit ridiculous
but i'm down for reducing the hellblast's speed
(it is also worth noting the gigablasts scal shoots on default don't do damage prior to exploding to smaller darts as well)
i still don't know what this means
violet dagger
that the gigablasts dont do damage before exploding? :echwot:
glass sentinel
personally i feel they're fine as they are
hearty yew
@sand umbra I read your wall of text
mighty knot
thomas can't stand to make a suggestion under 2,000 characters can he
hearty yew
Are you aware how minimal the effect of this is
It's not a detriment to non linearity. If you're two or three tiers up you'll still trash the boss
It's a (mostly pointless) balance bandaid to gently nudge anything that's slightly too strong in the right direction and its biggest intent actually is to provide a soft cap to damage stats
people always complain about "defensive options suck in calamity, just go glass cannon" yeah well now beyond a certain point every dps increase has diminishing returns that you cannot avoid via any means. This blanket nerfs that entire play style (and its toxic mindset) so that being more balanced or choosing other options is more attractive
The only exception to this is night prov
For whatever reason night prov has timed DR that's so incredibly strong that it basically enforces her kill time as a hard rule. source: try using nanoblack against night prov and BR prov, see which one dies first
then compare their health
anyway this is a good example of what I was saying about your infinite array of raw takes. there's nothing inherently wrong with your argument as you presented it, but it's missing contextual information that may help change your outlook.
I would also say "fuck timed DR", in fact I asked for it to be removed if you've ever killed the boss before, or made rev only, and iirc both were shot down. it applies at "reduced effect" (I think 2/3?) if you've beaten the boss before and there is no way to disable it
sand umbra
having it be removed after boss kill would be fantastic
hearty yew
But as I said, it does almost nothing (except night prov)
We've measured it
It makes like an eight second difference on scal
5:10 versus 5:18 for example
I.e. 310 seconds vs 318 seconds
So like. 3%.
Also speaking of cool anti cheese mechanisms. If you've never read about it, go look into the way Risk of Rain 2's final boss handles anti burst cheese
Every time he takes damage he gains a hyperbolic amount of % DR that scales with the % of his HP in damage he took from that hit. This effect stacks with itself constantly all the time and falls off at a linear rate.
it's VERY cool
very clever, though it's designed to prevent colossal burst which calamity isn't worried about
hopefully this has been helpful for you
sand umbra
it has :o
hearty yew
I would definitely support a suggestion "fully remove reactive DR after first boss kill"
I mean hell I support this one too but it'll be dead meat on the floor of dev server
sand umbra
a bit late to change the sugg itself sadly
which sucks because I'd still totally push for reactive DR dying after first kill
sand umbra
thank you for the insight nonetheless
summer sentinel
thank you for the insight on the ror2 final boss as well, I had no idea either, but that makes more sense why it's like that
dapper coral
has it ever been pushed in dev to expand on the timed DR? considering it's nearly useless atm, as you said
i'm just curious as to why it exists if its effect is negligible
i mean, i know you said why it exists
hearty yew
because the alternative was it being way too strong
dapper coral
but currently it could stand for either removal or buffs, since it's basically moot at this point
hearty yew
Originally it was quite oppressive and we hated that so we cut back on it
We were satisfied with the way it gently nudges slightly too powerful weapons into a more reasonable kill time
And we were willing to sacrifice some non linearity melt potential (it still melts. seriously, try it) in favor of having hyper optimized on tier meta strats get slapped
As well as what I said earlier about it serving as an effective soft cap on damage, which calamity's risk/damage focused meta desperately needed
If we were gonna stick to our guns, I would say we'd make it a bit stronger and remove it after first boss kill
right now it's so watered down it doesn't do much at all
dapper coral
i see
hearty yew
like you can fucking unload onto destroyer w/ last prism
and he'll take maybe 20-25% less damage by the time you're done killing him
because, as I said, the alternative is really oppressive and that's what fucks up the edge cases of non linearity melt potential
imagine trying to melt brimmy because you decided to skip her earlier but as you lower her health she just starts getting tankier and tankier, and it winds up taking like 90 seconds to kill her anyway when you were expecting it to take 20 because she just refused to die
It doesn't add any challenge to the game, we feel
and I think that hurting non linearity is not a good price to pay for brutally slaughtering cheese
After all, true cheese also won't be stopped by making it take longer
Just like non linear melting