I never understood what's the problem with letting people skip parts of the game if they want to
but the point of the convo is Cultist giving too much reward for sequence breaking in relative to its fairly easy fight
#suggestions-discussion
cobalt pewter
hollow shell
problem with Eidolon Tablet is that cultist is wimpy yeah
fossil finch
Like, if you want and can skip parts of the game to be faster, for the best example, speedrunners, you deserve to do so and there's no problem with it
Oh, well
I guess buffing cultist would be another solution, but i've seen people that don't want that
violet dagger
Another emote sugg 
visual crane
Thus why I suggested making the tablet something you come across later. Sure, it would make things a tad slower, but it would slow the damage spike caused by fighting LC sooner than normal. I suggested post-plant too. That isn't to hard, considering portabulb.
I honestly don't think buffing the LC is the necessary solution
whole sedge
imo having it drop after 1 hardmode boss would probably be the best solution
distant gyro
make cultist more enraged the less hardmode bosses defeated for raw non-linearity carnage
hollow shell
Calamity Ganon mode
ancient crow
that's a great idea ngl
you could even put some lore about how cultist draws strength from other powerful beings
whole sedge
Yeah that's an amazing idea
untold cargo
cant
hollow shell
@marble phoenix It's coming. There was legal trouble involved in doing that but we're working on it now (iirc)
untold cargo
oh
craggy stratus
legal trouble?
hollow shell
Yes with Re-Logic
craggy stratus
oh, that sounds, bizzare
ancient mirage
also, check the pins
craggy stratus
wasnt calamity ost original works, completely independent
hollow shell
Overall it was strange yes, especially because there was only conflict when we first contacted about it and D-Town was the one handling the situation, who said it wasn't allowed
and then it was shelved for like a long time and they ignored us
and then iirc Leinfors took over the situation and we got it all taken care of quick and we're allowed to put it on Spotify
I don't know what the status is now that Dokuro officially ceased composing for Calamity
marble phoenix
Hopfully it dealt with so people who post it to Spotify and make it so only they can listen to forever stop
cobalt pewter
Never been a big fan of Spotify, but cool I guess
tawny garden
we're allowed to put it on Spotify
I'm guessing that DM DOKURO will have to put it there himself
dapper coral
not to mention that whole thing went on for literal YEARS
tawny garden
there isn't a real reason there
just "why don't we"
ah, no, there is "match the armor"
I'm dumb
still cliff
heady storm
@dapper coral 
dapper coral
hellyes indeed
hollow shell
Good suggestion, one that I have supported in the past
dapper coral
i suppose the only issue is getting sprites for em
frail mantle
aye
though if the devs don't want to do it they can request someone else do it in art
earnest vine
one message @umbral scroll
radiant meadow
the relics?
untold cargo
there are drops
whole sedge
radiant meadow
ignored again 
earnest vine
yeah still
radiant meadow
@ demik
umbral scroll
really
umbral scroll
oh
whole sedge
And they're all really good
west jackal
The enraged suggestion got to 200 easily
frail mantle
ok
dapper coral
yes and no?
but at the same time there's a mod expressly for this
that extends the buff limit
hollow shell
Not so hardcoded that it cannot be bypassed
dapper coral
i forget what it's called though
violet dagger
it's hard to do it properly
Lan's unlimited buff slots does it
there's another one but its a glitchfest
tawny garden
ye, glitchfest it will be
void kelp
ye
tawny garden
that's a good way of describing it
void kelp
there's dradon's one but the way it works is by changing the char files themselves iirc
hollow shell
Good sugg. Other bosses have teleport indicators specifically for non-snipe purposes
dapper coral
to be fair, yharon doesn't do contact damage when he does his bullet hell spin anymore
hollow shell
I think I recall Fab saying he didn't want to add the indicators to Yharon because it would make the attacks too easy to avoid?
It should be fine if they only last like half a second, though
dapper coral
indicators could be nice, perhaps
but i think they're not quite necessary for yharon
golden narwhal
Yharon does have a split second before he charges after a tele
dapper coral
^ that's part of my thought process
when he teleports before his spinny bullet hell, he doesn't do contact damage
and those projectiles are not the fastest things in the world
and when he teleports in his last subphase he also has some time before he dashes, as MrAsianMan said
not to mention OD and fishron do a similar thing and they don't have indicators iirc
violet dagger
my main issue with yharon is when he teleports above you and bc of his custom i frames and lack of indicators you fly up into him and die from contact dmg
golden narwhal
Tbh that can be avoided by not flying up quickly, similar to fishron's teles
Also, the dukes' teleports have a pattern of sorts unlike yharon's afaik
sinful steeple
To be fair when has a vanilla boss ever had a telegraphed attack except for EoL
golden narwhal
ML
radiant meadow
@visual wigeon Bugs should be reported to #bugs-read-pins, not suggested.
violet dagger
im not sure exactly what they mean
sinful steeple
I meant when has a vanilla boss ever had a telegraphed attack, not when has a vanilla boss never had a telegraphed attack 
radiant meadow
I'm not sure if it was already fixed or not. I think something about Yharon is fixed next update.
hollow shell
It sounds like a bug yeah
craggy stratus
yharon is using ML portal gun
violet dagger
but I'm thinking they mean that in dmode since yharon skips a subphase at the start of each phase he flips around to the other side in a way that's hard to dodge
golden narwhal
When he reaches, say 30%, in the middle of a BH, he continues with it
hollow shell
A video would help, Sirbluedoge
visual wigeon
I just did the yharon fight again. It only happens in the second phase. For clarification, of he reaches any phase threshold, like 80%, during any attack other than a dash, he will perform a dash before phase-changing. Sometimes the dash is cut slightly short, other times it is not.
violet dagger
I think I know what u mean
In dmode when he skips a subphase in p2 he dash flips across the screen
And most of the time it's undodgable if ur close to him
visual wigeon
I'm in rev
violet dagger
He probably skips a phase in rev also then
visual wigeon
He still does the phase change afterwards
foggy plover
yea that charge thing got fixed
violet dagger
In beta?
Since I'm on latest update and it still happens
lets hope multiplayer code is nice
radiant meadow
yes, fixed next update.
ashen warren
To be fair when has a vanilla boss ever had a telegraphed attack except for EoL
@sinful steeple golem fist
golden narwhal
still ML
heady storm
@dapper coral I call upon you to assist me with reasoning on adding this. 
dapper coral
alrighty
when someone says something that just confounds you, as happens so often in this server
what emote do you turn to?
?
perhaps
but it's not quite as accurate as :wot:
heady storm
List them all Rover?
dapper coral
what is that one based on
hollow shell
When somebody says something stupid, you can send 
or 
or 
or or 
or 
or 
or 
or 
or 
or 
or 
or 
or 
or 
or 
or 
or or 
and arguably a few more
heady storm
:wot: would be intended for utter confusion, not someone saying something stupid.
and
heady storm
I mean it in a close sense to , where someone goes like "it is now!" or in that kind of relation if I'm making sense.
violet dagger
@dapper coral I call upon you to assist me with reasoning on adding this.
Me when meme cat
Crap quote ping 
dapper coral
lol i was already watching the convo so nbd
hollow shell
also, wot/ach is not the best for conveying confusion in a general sense
It's mostly in reaction to something/someone who said something confusing
heady storm
Should I try anyway or no then?
heady storm
Aighty then, was worth a shot.
violet dagger
is it the same cat
inb4 offtopic
tawny garden
sweating & co. is generally just acknowledging that something is bad
also I've never seen anyone use
dapper coral
^
heady storm
I treated ach more like a "nooooooo" emote.
Not a confusion one, I didn't even see them as close.
tawny garden
I never understood it
tawny garden
inb4 :YharonEch:
violet dagger
Nah we alr have
tawny garden
that'd just be THE LORDE
violet dagger
Yes
heady storm
Oh yeah that's another thing.
We sometimes have both the original and calamity variants of emotes.
Other times we just have one of the other.
tawny garden
we also have :CreditReport:, which has literally been used 0 times in the entirety of the server
hollow shell
What
tawny garden
(at least of the part of the server that I can see)
hollow shell
Oh, the hulk dancing
tawny garden
I'm questioning the existence
tawny garden
ah, in cd chat?
heady storm
I'd assume so.
tawny garden
I can't search in that
heady storm
Death.
hollow shell
I remember this moment particularly well:
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/226068663663329282/496435877996658698
heady storm
(I'm still not gonna sugg :wot: though.)
hollow shell
@ashen warren The word you're looking for is "dust", or "particles". That's what Enchanted Sword's beam has when it hits something
"Animation" is a bit misleading because that implies spritework
ashen warren
My bad.
hollow shell
Suggestion is fair, though. I don't see any code in its file telling it to do... anything when it gets 'killed'
So, yeah it just pops out of existence
grim tusk
Hage sounds like a good idea
dapper coral
is bladecrest the one that shoots demon scythes
hollow shell
Yeah
Well, custom scythes now
glass sentinel
yah
dapper coral
oh, they're custom now
hollow shell
hollow shell
Ω
dapper coral
if they were just demon scythes then idk why they wouldn't have one already
byeah epic omega projectile
hollow shell
I don't think they were actual Demon Scythe projs for a long time
hollow shell
Yeah I think it was always just similar
I have source files from 2017 with a unique Bladecrest scythe proj
cobalt pewter
Polter will have a minor rework next patch, no?
hollow shell
@vast void Make sure you've got a good arena size. He gets aggressive if the area is too big
vast void
Even at minimum size I just consistently get clapped last phase
The proyectiles are too much on top of the 2 polterghasts
They bounce everywht and are hard to see
hollow shell
I see.
You should reword your suggestion, then. Outright reverts are a no, so you should just suggest an overall reduction in aggression or less projectiles
(Also, you need more to your reasoning. Explain in your suggestion the factors that make the fight annoying)
vast void
If they weren't faded red it wouldn't be an issue, but they blend with pink dungeon walls
hot zephyr
I don't think reverting the patch is a good idea, but I think Polterghast is too much of a clusterfuck as a fight
hollow shell
Also @hot zephyr doesn't the Hive try to ram the player if there are no perf worms?
in Rev+
dapper coral
yea it does
hot zephyr
Yes, but I don't think it's difficult enough as is.
Even with the ramming, it's not very difficult to stall
Maybe I've just fought Perfs too many times, but the hive AI is extremely predictable
hollow shell
aight
You should at least mention that in your sugg, that the ram isn't enough
tawny garden
@ashen warren your sugg has no reason
heady storm
SS one?
hollow shell
Well I mean
"The new Subsuming vortex is now kind of useless but changing it back with two attacks would make it a lot better and more valuable and worth it to craft because it feels like it got nerfed into oblivion."
ashen warren
my bad I’m new to this
golden narwhal
everyone talks about giving sub two attacks rather than buffing current function 
violet dagger
Let me see if I can find it
distant gyro
i dont think it's called a rework
hollow shell
Wait what just happened
heady storm
Assuming the SS one.
violet dagger
Found that fast #suggestions-discussion message
dapper coral
they had 2 suggs and deleted both
hollow shell
Was it a glitch?
dapper coral
it's in delete notifs if that's what you mean
hollow shell
What was the other, I can't remember
dapper coral
Have the bloodstone cores be easier to craft
creating bloodstone cores feels quite tedious and is a very slow process consider the amount of time you have to grind blood moons to get blood orbs, then grind in the dungeon to get phantoplasam, then kill brimstone bosses to finally craft some bloodstone cores.
It takes quite a while of this repetitive process to get bloodflare armor and a weapon to fight whatever boss is next, I think it takes too long and the recipe should either have more accessible easier to get items or have the items like blood orb be more common and can be found in other places instead of just during a blood moon.
It won’t be too much to change since bloodflare armor is only used for about 1 or 2 bosses before being replaced by better armor, which makes the grinding feel like an even bigger waste of time.
distant gyro
c+p the other one back
heady storm
Ye.
dapper coral
this one is fine right?
hollow shell
@ashen warren Oh yeah your Bloodstone sugg is totally fine
ashen warren
sorry didn’t know what I was really doing, deleted them because I didn’t like them, that’s all
dapper coral
it's just the SSV one that is unnecessary
heady storm
SSV one isn't needed, yes.
hollow shell
You don't need to be so quick to delete :P
You can repost the Bloodstone one, it's an aight suggestion
ashen warren
nah
hollow shell
Okay then
limber ocean
sounds about right
limber ocean
farming for bloodstone is ech unless you save up on treasure bags from earlier
cobalt pewter
^
limber ocean
and I doubt that's the intended way to do it
cobalt pewter
It's more that the post provi boss buffs are lame and annoying
So ppl either resort to arma bag farming b4 killing provi or just don't bother
ashen warren
actually changed my mind I’ll put it back because I hate blood orb farming
limber ocean
Post-Providence Ravager: exists
My healthbar on Rev+: Adios
dapper coral
aight then
cobalt pewter
Legendary items are already planned ahead
tawny garden
That's a dont
cobalt pewter
So just wait ig
tawny garden
Explicit dont in the doc, which you should read
unreal star
suggestionbot can approve suggestions?
serene fox
yes
robust lava
Automatically after 24 hours, assuming that no problems remain with the suggestion
cobalt pewter
I wonder if it's possible to sugg about reducing wave pounder lag
Not only it deals damage per shot than sealed singularity, it's much more annoying to use due to extravagant effects
cobalt pewter
Hell, the primary reason sealed sing got any lags at all is because I have elec glove
violet dagger
Oh that
cobalt pewter
But yeah, wave pounder on stealth has bigger effects
So it's much more annoying to use
And it deals less dmg than sealed sing
robust lava
Specific weapon lag belongs in #bugs-read-pins I believe
craggy stratus
reacting my own suggestion so it can get closer to 200 by 1 star
violet dagger
pine star
dapper coral
this seems... odd
hollow shell
Would be weird to have yeah
cobalt pewter
Okay uh
hollow shell
It's one thing to sugg something for AEW cuz that's its own challenge
but Sepulcher is an obstacle in a larger fight, SCal's
pastel terrace
Well SOMEONE is going to do it
cobalt pewter
...no?
dapper coral
i doubt it
gray nebula
no
hollow shell
I mean yeah someone could do it but
gray nebula
cobalt pewter
Anyway the last sugg is a yes to me
hollow shell
why would that be rewarded
cobalt pewter
hollow shell
Speculcher is just one of several minion enemies in SCal's fight (and the mod)
zenith hazel
just because someone could do it doesn't necessarily mean someone should be rewarded for it
pastel terrace
Fair
zenith hazel
that's like saying someone should be given something for say, true melee-ing every boss in the game
0 reward and that's perfectly fine
hollow shell
god please no
craggy stratus
a reward i guess
pastel terrace
What’s AEW
coral maple
god please no
I never got the appeal of true melee, it's pretty unfair imo, you can't get close to enemies without blowing up and true melee has basically no range
untold cargo
That’s kind of the point
coral maple
if the point is being unfair then it's not fun, and well, the entire point of a game is to be fun
limber ocean
some people enjoy the challenge, I guess
getting a reward kinda defeats the point tho
at least IMO
tawny garden
is the link to the wiki page needed?
it's "Sepulcher", not "Sepulchre"
@pastel terrace
hollow shell
Funny American English
tawny garden
there's pretty much no reason there, also
hollow shell
Also I don't have a problem with the link. I know about Solstice Claymore, but I don't want to assume everybody knows about Solstice Claymore
s'not a particularly notable wep
robust lava
I have always wondered why it's the "Sulphurous Sea" if Calamity is made by predominantly Americans...
hollow shell
I think that was literally just Fab's preference
robust lava
I like it. Means I don't have to speak funny American
hollow shell
I personally blame Minecraft
tawny garden
(also, the link could become a hyperlink, I did that in #suggestions-voting message)
hollow shell
nuts
pine star
tawny garden
iirc I did [link_text](url)
dapper coral
personally i think sulphurous looks better than sulfurous anyways
tawny garden
yeah
hollow shell
(yeah same but I wouldn't be able to articulate why)
gritty elk
Should I repost my multiplayer health scaling change suggestion from a while back
AFAIK that hasn't been changed and it's a huge problem for actually playing the late game
hollow shell
The death timers one?
hollow shell
I'm only seeing the one
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/715627154787926207
gritty elk
Oh there it is, thanks
I think I tried to post one about this:
1 - Reduced multiplayer boss HP scaling more. - Done
Being a massive problem and ruining MP late game
But got shouted down because "you can just raise the boss HP manually!!!1!1!"
Despite that only sometimes working on dedicated servers
Reposting the death timers one might be the move though, that would also address the same issue
I just want revengeance bosses not to be a meme post moon lord
in multiplayer
dapper coral
(btw it looks like that one SCal sugg has petered out, so i'm gonna repost my one from earlier this week)
hollow shell
I'm personally in the camp that respawns should be totally disabled in Multi, or if you respawn while the boss is alive then you are severely weakened or something
I'd be fine with boosting the death timers though
craggy stratus
wasnt there a suggestion about this
hollow shell
Yes
void kelp
should be a config imo
hollow shell
Configs and multiplayer go together like water and oil
gritty elk
^^^^
Can confirm, I've literally had bugs on dedi servers where the game straight up unbinds all your keys if you change any configs
hollow shell
Damn I haven't heard of that one before
gritty elk
It definitely wasn't a problem until tMod got packaged into steam, idk what changed that caused that
dapper coral
that is...an interesting bug
novel belfry
change configs = you keys are unbinded. good luck
craggy stratus
when BH end, scal hellblast shoot diagonally at my face when im not leveled at her
dapper coral
that is indeed the issue
fossil torrent
:hage:
subtle oracle
wooden wedge
with how much it's been said it was just a matter of time
hollow shell
m
wooden wedge
pretty hage
dapper coral
pretty hage indeed
pine night
It has similar colors
hollow shell
They are indeed both rainbow
Once you've been lookin at the elemental palette for long enough you can tell the difference
but, I spose for newer players it could be strange?
gray nebula
pine night
Exactly
normal mauve
Well, i had trouble with it
hollow idol
I can see why it could be confusing
hollow shell
s'tryin to be rainbow like a lot of vanilla Hallow-related things are
dapper coral
they're similar enough to perhaps cause confusion
hollow shell
It uses a more limited palette for aesthetic reasons
hollow shell
imo it holds up real well
pine night
thats from 2017?
pine night
wow
hollow shell
There are a few sprites in the mod which have stood the test of time
Not many but some
Someone could try respriting Axe of Purity but I don't think that cool design can be matched or surpassed easily
tawny garden
exceeded*
radiant meadow
There were some axe of purity resprite attempts like a month or two ago iirc but they weren't colorful and didn't look as good imo
violet dagger
The exo wep sprites also are holding up good
tawny garden
hm, what is the oldest sprite?
hollow shell
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459252132068065280/691450130125029376/Axe_of_Purity.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459252132068065280/694756150754803732/Axe_of_Purity.png
resprite attempts
hollow shell
The former is too simple and the latter is way too bombastic
radiant merlin
that first one is just n o
dapper coral
mmyeah no
pine night
1st one doesnt fit the hallow at all
radiant meadow
ah yes, first one was super dull and second was super bright
hollow shell
("what is the oldest sprite" is an interesting question and I may try to find that)
violet dagger
I think it's storm surge
radiant meadow
not for long then
violet dagger
But a resprite of it got accepted so not for long
gray nebula
yharon tornado thing prolly
hollow shell
Storm Surge is a candidate only technically
OG sprite is pre-2017 and current is just a recolor of it from 2018
tawny garden
("what is the oldest sprite" is an interesting question and I may try to find that)
[[File:Cryonic Ore.png]]
red stormBOT
tawny garden
I'm guessing
violet dagger
That's old
hollow shell
That is also a candidate
hollow shell
Jan 2017 is when the wiki got its first big load of images so we may need to do harder digging
... aka asking YuH
tawny garden
violet dagger
@Yu H
tawny garden
btw, I used [[Special:ListFiles]] and clicked "Last Page" for that
red stormBOT
tawny garden
Tho Jan 19 is wiki creation date
actually, the wiki was created at 18th of January 2017, 15:48 UTC
radiant meadow
probably just a time zone thing
limber ocean
how long has the mod itself existed?
pine night
getting back on topic, I also noticed that its sprite also resembles exo weapons
hollow shell
Yeah I was gonna mention that
the green-blue ramp's pretty similar
and with orange as an accent
pine night
the only main difference is the blue handle
radiant meadow
most exos are way bigger though, supernova being like the exception
pine night
yeah
hollow shell
Exoblade, Celestus, VC, and Gale are pretty large, is the point
pine night
it still has a very similar color scheme and there are those few smaller exo weapons
hollow shell
(btw @tawny garden and @violet dagger it seems like it's Yharon's projectiles, including infernadoes. Followed by the Slime Gods.)
( @gray nebula you right )
violet dagger
Slime gods is short lived tho
ashen warren
i hope i did the suggestion right sorry folks
hollow shell
@ashen warren There's a mod, iirc named Shop Extender, which allows you to have multiple shop menus
ashen warren
but i dont want that mod and tbh there should be a toggle for that anyway
hollow shell
and anything that overflows is put on a second/third menu
gray nebula
i mean i kinda knew it thanks to yuh
hollow shell
Well I mean, the only reason you're making this sugg is because you're using other mods
Do you have any reason for your suggestion that is Calamity-exclusive?
ashen warren
well yeah but it would be a decent QoL thing
hollow shell
Why
radiant meadow
isn't there already a toggle for boss summons?
wooden wedge
the only way to get this to happen is if you're using multiple other mods
tawny garden
hollow shell
I'll check
wooden wedge
why not just get the mod rover said
radiant meadow
just the vanilla ones
violet dagger
Why not just get shop expander
radiant meadow
check the configs
ashen warren
ah well calamity makes dryad sell a large amount of extra stuff and some other things add some stuff as well
i checked and its not there
tawny garden
you're playing tModLoader
violet dagger
radiant meadow
It's called Vanilla Boss Summons Shop or something I forget
ashen warren
well if i already have a lot of mods wouldnt it make sense for me to not want too much more
tawny garden
you aren't playing Calamity, it's not a separate game
hollow shell
I can understand not wanting to use other mods in any other circumstance
violet dagger
Well it's a smol mod
hollow shell
There's one, "Sell Vanilla Boss Summons"
which is not all of the summons that get sold
ashen warren
im sorry for my excess suggestion then. ive never seen that one
violet dagger
Fargos mutant better
hollow shell
cuz there's still Calamity's
ashen warren
yeah mutant is awesome
wow im sorry i really didnt see that after going thru like 4 times
ok should i delete that then
dapper coral
may as well
ashen warren
ok there, my bad everyone
dapper coral
pine night
so if a suggestion doesnt get the ❗ reaction it automatically gets posted in #suggestions-voting?
wooden wedge
after 24 hours yes I think
dapper coral
that is correct
after 24 hours pass, if it's not got an exclamation, it goes to voting automatically
pine night
ok
tawny garden
if it does have an exclamation in 24 hours, it goes to the dumpster
even bypassing #deleted-notifications afaik
radiant meadow
I think it only bypasses delete notifs cuz it takes 24 hours
there's a time cutoff the bot tracks
not because modnotifs just ignores suggbot
hollow shell
Is that true
I thought that it was common practice for bots to ignore other bots and that's why it doesn't go to notifs
wooden wedge
aren't the bots run off of ambers PC?
radiant meadow
well, if I manually approve something immediately, it goes to #delete-notifications
so modnotifs doesn't ignore the suggbot
modnotifs doesn't track messages if you hit delete all in the past X hours when banning someone
hollow shell
A fair suggestion.
fossil finch
I mean current tooltip is cooler but i get it couls be misleading
hot vault
the tooltip is cooler, i agree, but it isnt worded properly to ecplain the functionality
explain*
ashen warren
I think a few items need new tooltips
tribal verge
always fun when you get a item from a boss and it has a whole bible as a tooltip
sand umbra
regarding the Titan Heart armor tooltip
wouldn't it be more effective to simply change it to "Rogue attacks spread the astral infection"
because then the implication is "oh, it inflicts the debuff on hit enemies, okie"
a tooltip description of an effect can be accurate and still be flavorful
hollow shell
Nah that can still be misconstrued I think
sand umbra
alternate solution, then:
"Rogue weapons spread the astral infection to struck enemies"
if that can be misconstrued I honestly don't think it's worth changing it at all
because anything that's more direct would either sound cold and mechanical or flat-out awkward
people don't want an exact retelling of the source for their set bonuses, they look for effects that sound cool
hollow shell
That one sounds fine yeah
sand umbra
"Rogue weapons inflict the astral infection debuff" or "Rogue weapons inflict astral infection" don't sound particularly intriguing, now do they 
and now I am going to: leave, because I wish to avoid a large-scale argument about my sugg-- /s
sand umbra
jokes aside
honestly I'm not certain if my point/reasoning's clear enough as it is
hollow shell
Are you sayin to
add more 'forms' to the cycle
or make her do less set-in-stone things for each 'form'?
sand umbra
I'm iffy about getting into specifics especially since boss suggs in particular are never actually acted upon
but I suppose it'd primarily be about doing less set-in-stone things for each "form"
or, hell, half-axing the "form" system entirely and just having rose phase come after a certain number of attacks
hollow shell
aight
cuz like the former can work
Prov's only got 5 (or 4) 'forms' but she goes through them in a long cycle which makes em hard to predict (even though they're set)
violet dagger
I guess nobody here has seen erazor's array of attacks, quite the chonky list
sand umbra
something else important to note is that cocoon phase especially is not set in stone despite basically being Provi's equivalent to Brimmy rose phase
cocoon phase can mean either Undyne's spear collection or flare flare daze
hollow shell
That's true, I was boutta mention that
sand umbra
on top of that, one of Provi's "forms" specifically changes based on what biome you fight her in (Holy Ray v. Crystal)
hollow shell
Brim could be given alts to one or two of her forms to create a pseudo 6-form cycle instead of 3
cobalt pewter
Crystal > Holy Ray tbh
violet dagger
Funny thing is nothing changes from laser to crystal apart from what happens
She slows down when crystal forms
Like when she's charging up the laser
sand umbra
but the important part is what happens
hollow shell
(I was about to say
"Amazing insight, gseal"
'nothing changes between the two attacks except for the attack she uses')
violet dagger
sand umbra
remember, Provi has no contact damage and her movement is a constant pattern throughout the fight (it's really just Ice Queen movement at a base level)
her own location is largely inconsequential to the attacks themselves, unless you position yourself like really poorly
because the attacks will target you specifically anyway rather than happening differently based on where she is
violet dagger
I like when I'm dumb and when she does cocoon flames I charge right into her and get instantly killed
sand umbra
yeeeeeeeeees
sand umbra
literally 750 health gone in 2 and a half nanoseconds
goodbye
ez gg no re
You were slain...
radiant meadow
Repent for your sins.
rapid pivot
Ayy, my zerg sugg hit 200.
hollow shell
nice
cobalt pewter
pog
Also I gotta say no to making OOA armors reduce penalty tbh, unless calam devs would move the dmg bonuses to set bonus or smth
But making monk a rogue-summon armor is interesting
chilly pelican
what do you mean "move the damage bonuses to set bonuses"?
cobalt pewter
Also calam doesn't like touching vanilla stuff
Unless it's really needed for some balance issues
They think vanilla is ugly and defective
hollow shell
Ehh well
Arguably this suggestion is alleviating Calamity's influence on vanilla stuff
Vanilla doesn't have a summon penalty
and like the man says, we already do this for Forbidden armor
chilly pelican
admittedly, you'd probably also have to nerf Valhalla Armor.
all that health regen, and double the armor of a post-ML summon set at Golem tier is uh...
kinda good..
(and heaven forbid we make summoner good)
hollow shell
Last time I asked the devs/testers about doing something about the OOA armors
The response was literally "we don't want to acknowledge that they exist"
(paraphrased)
Cuz that is a whole lot of balancing for a very weird set of armors
chilly pelican
Valid but also they're sick as heck.
in vanilla, that is.
It's a really interesting playstyle to be not just summoner.
chilly pelican
Yeah that event is sorta cursed.
cobalt pewter
OOA is cursed yes
chilly pelican
I don't think the buffs are that broken tho.
Like Valhalla only buffs Melee crit chance, it's more a tank armor with all it's health and regen.
And shinobi gives a 20 percent melee damage increase, which is still less than the 25 percent damage reduction that you'd have to contend with if you wanted to even use it if it had the same effect the Forbidden did.
If you wanted just give them all something like crit chance or attack speed, and don't give any damage buffs, because the damage buff is not dealing half damage off of the penalty.
cobalt pewter
Oh yeah, you did say why move bonuses to set instead of pieces
Because mixing armor pieces is dum dum
chilly pelican
well yes but like who wants increased ranged crit chance and melee attack speed as a summoner.
cobalt pewter
Yes, and funny enough, it's not summoners who mix armor pieces
chilly pelican
Imagine using the build for max melee damage
cobalt pewter
It's the other classes that are given those OOA armors
chilly pelican
wack. I could see moving the damage increase to set bonus.
Or like I said just get rid of it because lowering the damage penalty is a buff enough in my book.
cobalt pewter
Well no damage there, but like, mfn life regen is dumb
chilly pelican
4/hp sec is insane.
And like I said earlier, "admittedly, you'd probably also have to nerf Valhalla Armor."
too good.
needs some fine-tuning but i certainly think the idea has merit. Valhalla was meant to tank, but it does it too well, so decrease armor and hp regen. Infiltrator swap the melee damage and attack speed for rogue crit chance and stealth buildup, red riding swap ranged damage for crit chance or attack speed or ammo consumption, dark artist swap magic damage with mana usage and extra mana.
basically damage buffs are for suckas.
dry latch
might want to divide this into 2 suggs instead
and I did sugg changing monk/shinobi to rogue, but they said no
cuz of this:
- Any suggestions about making vanilla weapons or equipment deal/boost Rogue damage instead.
Example: Making Vampire Knives deal rogue damage.
Reason: See above. Also, the armor sets we current edit to boost rogue stats didn't even have set bonuses in vanilla, they were purely defense (or even vanity). Overwriting the stats & damage types of vanilla weapons/equipments is a more major change and pushes too far into the vanilla-editing territory than we are willing to trespass.
gray nebula
💩
tawny garden
I'd keep little jokes out of suggs
cobalt pewter
💩
gray nebula
i dont even know if theres actually a way to detect texturepacks
heady storm
I mean, they're just trying to censor "fucking."
gray nebula
iirc theres something done with overhaul to not fuck up the textures
but idk if its from overhaul's side or from ctp's
heady storm
Which yes, it's not necessary, but Idk if it ultimately hurts anyone.
ashen warren
No, what I mean is: it can be enabled outside of the texture pack, but isn't recommended. Like, Cal Pack textures inside vanilla isn't gonna be helpful.
heady storm
All I really wanna know is if people think this sugg is fine, since I'm personally iffy on some parts of it.
ashen warren
^
tawny garden
i dont even know if theres actually a way to detect texturepacks
I think they want that to be a manual config
which you set to true if you have the texture pack
ashen warren
Yeah.
tawny garden
the problem I have with the sugg is the 💩 emojis
either remove the word entirely or don't censor it
it distracts from the actual sugg
heady storm
I would honestly remove the word entirely, yeah.
ashen warren
I mean, they're just trying to censor "fucking."
I refuse to swear
heady storm
It can also come off as kinda aggressive.
cobalt pewter
Just don't use any sort of swearing then
Idk, I always try to make shit as formal as possible in suggs
ashen warren
There .
heady storm
But, when Calamity tries to make their textures not look out of place with vanilla (Rogue Emblem and Calamity Pack, trust me).
There's no followup to this from what I'm seeing.
Unless of course, that's just you accidentally adding "when" to the sentence, which is making me think there should be one.
ashen warren
There's a lot. (But mainly the freaking Rogue Emblem.)
Like, Cal Pack textures next to Cal textures. The sprite shows the vanilla sprite and not the modded. Most easily seen with Dirt and Astral Dirt.
heady storm
Now, I'm not saying you should do it right now and be demanding like that. What I'm saying is just slowly over time, update after update, we can stop the Wrath of Khan the freaking Rogue Emblem.
Also you can remove this section entirely imo, the devs can choose the pace at which they might implement it.
ashen warren
heady storm
That's all I really notice, so I'll wait for other people to provide their own thoughts.
gray nebula
yeha but a config to enable/disable would be a bit harder than just making a thing that auto detects it
dry latch
am gonna reiterate cuz people ignored it
- Any suggestions about making vanilla weapons or equipment deal/boost Rogue damage instead.
Example: Making Vampire Knives deal rogue damage.
Reason: See above. Also, the armor sets we current edit to boost rogue stats didn't even have set bonuses in vanilla, they were purely defense (or even vanity). Overwriting the stats & damage types of vanilla weapons/equipments is a more major change and pushes too far into the vanilla-editing territory than we are willing to trespass.
@chilly pelican
sadly, we can't suggest converting monk/shinobi to rogue. unless the don'ts get changed
ashen warren
yeha but a config to enable/disable would be a bit harder than just making a thing that auto detects it
Oh.
Then do that?
golden narwhal
Uhh
gray nebula
👊 more sniper riflmes!
heady storm
@winter valve you need reasoning to go along with your suggestion.
frail mantle
wouldn't having alternative sprites for anything resembling vanilla and not ctp end up being a lot of unnecessary spritework just to make things look slightly less funky with ctp enabled
clever valve
Buff hive mind, its ridiculously easy after you kill EoW, same with perforators
frail mantle
in what way
golden narwhal
I believe that's somewhat intentional (the former)
sinful steeple
That's true but it's really predictable
golden narwhal
As are other bosses, byea
clever valve
exactly
Hive mind is easy
Especially post EoW
Which is basically when everyone fights it
Because cysts spawn more post EoW
golden narwhal
Sugg how it should get buffed then
more
clever valve
But yeah the hive mind needs a buff
Its easy
and the perforators should have a new attack, or they could buff the worms movement speed
golden narwhal
I agree for perfs tbh
clever valve
Yeah the perfs are easy to cheese anyway
Just build a platform
On the surface
Bam
Maybe they could have the hive shoot projectiles after the first worm spawns
makes sense right?
golden narwhal
Sugg it then
clever valve
yes
golden narwhal
Note: I'd put perf and hive buffs separately, especially if you're going into detail
golden narwhal
Uh, the enemies are the variety for hive mind
One that chases the player quickly and still poses a threat after death, one that floats slowly but punishes when you stand still, one that shoots from a distance, and two more that have already been encountered
clever valve
True
golden narwhal
It also has its rain dash attack btw
clever valve
Yeah but it almost never uses it aside from dashing away in my experience
sinful steeple
Rain dash attack is a pretty tame attack honestly
golden narwhal
also, if it seems like I'm providing a better defense for hm than perfs, that because I'm infinitely biased for hive
clever valve
At the very least they should buff the hive minds speed
sinful steeple
The rain doesn't last very long
clever valve
And it almost never hits
golden narwhal
Rain really just limits your space for a bit
clever valve
It more or less gives you time to kill enemies
golden narwhal
That's always the time between hm's attacks
(Why I love it, minions can be controlled)
golden narwhal
Ah yes, it also has another dash if you don't attack it soon enough
golden narwhal
Yes; it just serves as a surprise if you focus too much on the minions
clever valve
i guess so
golden narwhal
So, uh, change the hm thing from 'give more variety' (or if you don't, say why all of the above isn't enough) to buff the existing attacks that don't pose as much of a threat
distant gyro
don't buff worm speed
golden narwhal
(Ones you brought up are rain dash, movement speed, and surprise dash)
distant gyro
that's a stupid contemporary solution that's generally more uninteresting
instead, make the worms interactive with the hive
golden narwhal
Oh yea, perfs are part of the sugg
clever valve
Bruh
distant gyro
also the worms do fire projectiles but they last too short to do them
clever valve
Yeah, which is why the hive should fire projectiles
golden narwhal
*different projectiles
clever valve
Yes
golden narwhal
Should add 'different' to the sugg, since that can get confusing
dry latch
just make them enrage in the surface
clever valve
nah thats too basic
cobalt pewter
I can imagine one of perf worms' charges would be heading towards the hive, making the hive shoot some kinda projectile when colliding with the worms or smth
Idk
clever valve
maybe the hive should be invincible while worms are alive if it doesnt already do that
cobalt pewter
maybe the hive should be invincible while worms are alive if it doesnt already do that
It does when the last worm is out
But not for the first 2
dry latch
the easiest way to cheese perf is to
- make a platform surface arena (worms are cheesed)
- add a solid block roof to block all the projectiles (main body is cheesed)
clever valve
It should do that for all worms
sinful steeple
Yeah the worms shoot projectiles but they're not a threat
distant gyro
should they be buffed? absolutely
dry latch
it's a problem underground where everything is red lol
sinful steeple
Maybe instead of being slow shots it should be like those geysers from Death hell? Although that's more just a different attack than a buff
clever valve
Yeah
fossil finch
Wait you guys figth him underground
dry latch
I tried to. died 30 times. made an arena above ground, beat it in 1 try lol
am talking death arma btw
fossil finch
That's why you don't figth underground
dry latch
which is why I said to just make them enrage above ground
all non-flying worms are made irrelevant by platforms
fossil finch
That would make no sense at all
Most of the time you can't go high enough for the worms to not be able to reach you without leaving the corruption tho
golden narwhal
That'd be out of line with hive mind tbh, and would defo change the difference in difficulty
golden narwhal
Ik
dry latch
but that's what your asking for right? difficulty?
golden narwhal
I was referring to a surface enrage being out of line with hive imo
dry latch
can you explain why? I'm not too familiar with it
golden narwhal
One would allow you to create an arena anywhere you wanted (hive), and the other would restrict that arena to the underground (perfs)
dry latch
so why not do it for both?
golden narwhal
Basically, one would be way more convenient to fight
Because it's not necessary for both?
dry latch
is hive not made easier when you fight it above ground?
golden narwhal
Yes ... as is any other boss simply due to convenience
fossil finch
Yes, because it's impossible to figth him in such small chasm
dry latch
digging is always an alternative
fossil finch
Crimson chasms are big, enough for a bossfigth, but corruption ones aren't
Also, must i mention the fact most chasms aren't in the underground layer at all
golden narwhal
That's another problem, yea
dry latch
true, I've forgotten about corruption world gen. too long since I've played there lol
fossil finch
Also happens with crimson ones
golden narwhal
Basically, that'd be hoping world-gen doesn't fuck you over
dry latch
yeah. that'd be a bad idea. I see that now lol
but from what I've seen most of the problem comes from the fact that the perf worms are waaay too easy to deal with. they die right as there phase starts
golden narwhal
They kinda currently just draw your attention from the raining projectiles
dry latch
yeah. for like, 5 seconds or so
sand umbra
heh?
gray nebula
this someone is wrong
drowsy cape
zenith hazel
don't do it then
unreal star
it was a joke
zenith hazel
jokes don't belong in suggs
sand umbra
this sugg just feels like my daily reminder that not a single post-ML Calamity boss with an associated armor set, up to and including DoG, will give you enough stuff to make all your gear in one kill
(okay actually there is one exception, it's possible to get enough Ruinous Souls from Polter to make Bloodflare armor all in one go)
(however that armor also requires Bloodstone which is otherwise completely irrelevant to Polterghast and requires murdering other stuff en masse, so)
distant gyro
only bloodflare/omega blue armor yes
sand umbra
pretend I didn't forget that Omega Blue exists
cobalt pewter
no
distant gyro
tarragon and prismatic both still require 2 kills and that's what matters
sand umbra
God Slayer too, iirc
distant gyro
yes but that's the main premise of the sug
sand umbra
yeah just checked it's physically impossible to receive all the Cosmilite you need for God Slayer in one go as well
distant gyro
so i didn't mention it
sand umbra
yeah, that's fair
and honestly this sugg is valid either way
Cosmilite is used for an obscene amount of late-game stuff
violet dagger
yes and especially in dmode
doing DoG even with post-DoG weapons is difficult
bc of that insta kill head
cobalt pewter
Me playing with research mod:
violet dagger
haha cosmilite bar requiring 1 more dog kill go :uncannytax:
violet dagger
yes
cobalt pewter
Then we'd be gud to go
violet dagger
craggy stratus
230 cosmilite bars with 4000 cosmilite bricks
dapper coral
@woeful lantern can you break up the sentence into multiple for ease of reading? right now it's just a run-on sentence
premise is fine though
distant gyro
(also, cosmilite)
dapper coral
yea that too
woeful lantern
Done
dapper coral
coolio
hollow shell
I'm not sure I fully understand the issue here?
jovial spire
Neither do I
If they just mean that having 2 HP bars gets in the way
just turn off one of the HP bars
hollow shell
@pulsar imp Can you try to explain the problem a little more?
jovial spire
Yeah tbh I don't really get the wording on it
hollow shell
What's going on with minibosses that causes.. something, with both YABHB and Cal's Boss Health Bar?
cobalt pewter
I assume, and this is a big "I assume", it's the segment health
pulsar imp
Well, my experience with using healthbar mods is calamity’s feature of showing the health of minibosses, which other healthbar mods lack, such as the healthbar in YABHB
cobalt pewter
Calamity hp bar merges all HP of segments or stuff into a single boss
e.g. Moon Lord Core in the name, while it takes into account the health of the core itself and the three socketed eyes
pulsar imp
What I propose allows players using YABHB to see the health of minibosses alongside the boss healthbar in YABHB
As of right now, in order to see the health of minibosses while having YABHB is to also have to see the second calamity healthbar right next to the YABHB healthbar
hollow shell
YABHB does show vanilla minibosses (SantaNK1, Goblin Summoner, etc), I know that for a fact
I assume other mods are able to add compatibility that lets them show their miniboss healths too
hollow shell
Maybe
There might be a YABHB config that you unknowingly disabled
dapper coral
i mean, sure
but the reasoning is pretty much the same as this one https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/754398002625380353
well, the sugg is aiming to prevent the exact same thing, anyways
hollow shell
Well Viral also mentions when she transitions from other attacks, ones that don't require her to be level with the player
so this sugg is a bit more of a catch-all
dapper coral
true
violet dagger
I think after the brother phase she should also not attack for a sec
since ive had time where I killed the brothers and instantly get charged at
without warning
marble mirage
uh, i decided to make a suggestion on here, though i'm gonna post it in here first for people to say if there's anything wrong with it
Add in a way to breathe in the Abyss without downside, either by allowing the Effigy of Decay to grant you breathing in it after killing a certain boss, or add in an upgrade to the Effigy.
Currently, there's no safe way to breathe in the Abyss without having to take unimaginable amounts of damage. And while vanilla does have biomes you can't have enemies in, mainly the Corruption and Crimson, it's moreso an exception and not a rule. You can even live in the Underworld or the Dungeon if you want to. Calamity can also allow you to live in its biomes, even in the Brimstone Crag, yet the Abyss does not let you. And while it is realistic that you can't live in the abyssal depths, Terraria isn't a game known in its realism (again, you can live in the Underworld). As for why it would be a good idea, it would allow people to get more creative with their bases or buildings, and allowing people to be creative doesn't hurt anybody.
violet dagger
I think that's the point tho
I do wish there were bubble things like in thorium's aquatic depths that restored your breath tho
marble mirage
makes sense, but you know
it always sucked for me that you aren't able to make a base in the abyss, or make any big buildings in there at all
tawny garden
first of all, if you already have a fully prepared sugg, it's better to yoink it in #suggestions-posting
but in regards to the sugg, I think the abyss is meant to be that way, it shouldn't be cheesable
marble mirage
i had ideas of making a submarine base in the abyss, but never could
marble mirage
and i imagine other builders would enjoy it
ah man, if it is meant to be that way, it's a tiny bit dissapointing
tawny garden
it is
marble mirage
i just wanna build in dark zone 😔
violet dagger
fossil finch
I mean amidias blessing does the job but you can't get hit and stuff
violet dagger
the good days when the bot died for a week
tawny garden
bootleg sugg bot days
marble mirage
well, maybe i should post it in the sugg posting channel anyway
maybe it will hit the goal
again, i wanted some opinions on here before i just went in and posted it
violet dagger
it's to go
tawny garden
marble mirage
honestly i had a second suggestion for the abyss, and it's making the terminus shrine look more special
since right now it just looks bad having it float in the middle of nowhere
but maybe that could be for later
tawny garden
oh that'd be a good sugg
marble mirage
again, maybe i'll post it later
hollow shell
Yeah I'd be fine with that
hollow shell
?
Oh, nah, that sugg back then was by CrazyDude
The bot was acting up during that period so the moderators and I had to post em directly into the channel
marble mirage
ohhh
hollow shell
@violet dagger You actually need to say why being RNG-dependent is an issue
tawny garden
The bot was acting up during that period
It was acting down*
hollow shell
Sure was..
sand umbra
this newest sugg has done nothing but make me angry
not because I do not like it
but because the rework that current Pwnagehammer is derived from had the now-chance effect as its stealth strike
and because fsr different class variants of the same weapon being actually distinct is illegal, it was changed so both variants get a chance for it to happen
violet dagger
ye its annoying that the melee-rogue system still exists
sand umbra
my annoyance is less that it exists
and more that it's not given the love it should be
it's times like these I wish the SI sugg ban wasn't in place
because it's really hard to make these things clear at times without pitching straight-up concepts to help the understanding
...hmm
I wonder if I should repost my sugg about expanding upon the concept of weapon variants
it's been the better part of a month
hollow shell
sure why not
sand umbra
hi Rover 
hollow shell
hello
heady storm
Thomas has come to revolutionize the mod once more.
violet dagger
time to make a bunch of alt accounts to star the sugg once it reaches voting
hollow shell
(I disagree)
sand umbra
(y)
hollow shell
There's some shit in the mod that's been the way it is for like 3 years and it ain't been changed yet
sand umbra
that's true actually
lotsa old stuff that's never been changed and which I'm not sure I can shake into the spirit of change 
violet dagger
like the vanilla ais bosses use can people stop hating when its from like 3 years ago
hollow shell
I should really start getting into Calamity programming so I can fix some of this stuff myself
heady storm
sand umbra
Rover programming 
violet dagger
yes
hollow shell
I have done 1 (one) programming so far
ASE's implementation
violet dagger
so p easy stuff basically
hollow shell
yeah wasn't hard
sand umbra
'tis a start, if nothing else
ASE is neat too I guess
simplifies recipes a bit, although personally I don't know how I feel about it
hollow shell
is something I've wanted for a while
Suggested it alongside Auric Bar
way back when
violet dagger
my feelings: when I first saw it in the changelog I thought it was some patreon donor pet item
hollow shell
Nobody could think of a better name
violet dagger
sand umbra
so like, to be perfectly honest
ASE vaguely bothers me for the same reason Life Alloy and Cores of Calamity do
in that the material is really just used as a form of compression and nothing else
I can understand why it's done that way, as the Terraria recipe system is hilarious
but it still does annoy me the slightest bit because the mats are only ever really used as that form of compression
that said, I do appreciate ASE's existence in particular either way because everything in it is used for like everything post-DoG
and it does help make things easier to understand for newer players especially and generally makes recipes a bit nicer to look at
hollow shell
It was also for thematic reasons
in that, when Cosmolite and Phantoplasm were used alongside each other in like 20 recipes, it wasn't cuz the item being crafted had anything to do with ghostliness. Phanto was just used as "power thing"
same with NF+EE recipes. None had to do with nightmares or freezing or the coalescence of frozen fear, they were always just there for emphasis
so I decided to solidify that
into a definite super-material that has the sole purpose of being "the powerful thing"
and now all (most) of the Phanto, NF, and EE recipes are relevant to what they are as materials on their own
violet dagger
pre auric bar days where just bruh
hollow shell
anyway yeah melee/rogue variants could be unique
The sprites could also be slightly different to signify that
(and make it less likely for you to craft the wrong one)
tawny garden
Thomas actually has a google doc in which he describes what changes in variant weapons he wants to see, but that doc is specific as hell so it's top secret
sand umbra
yeah
I haven't shown it but I have a whole-ass doc describing potential changes to existing variants + some proposals for new ones
along with general changes to variant weps which I think would be beneficial in the long run
hollow shell
oki
sand umbra
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cIKF04I6Jirecbo0WEj7vq5yp2RulYblNWkFS2F0cz4/edit?usp=sharing
funny thing: Pwnagehammer's current state is the main thing that prompted me to write this doc
I think it was that and general frustration with the boringness of hybrid weps, idk
anywho have this
mainly covers existing variant weps
hollow shell
Aight yeah now here's what I was wondering about
If you've got two weapons for different classes, which have wildly different functions (i.e. Pwnage being swung like a hammer/broadsword for melee, and thrown for rogue)
why do they share a name and appearance?
violet dagger
what about illustrious knives
tawny garden
because of reasons
violet dagger
oh I forgot about that
not sure if that dedicatee is still around tho
all I know about them is that their name is the single cause of death during the moonlord fight 
sand umbra
If you've got two weapons for different classes, which have wildly different functions (i.e. Pwnage being swung like a hammer/broadsword for melee, and thrown for rogue)
why do they share a name and appearance?
the main concept behind variants, to my knowledge
is that they are crafted the same way and thus are effectively the same item
the concept here was to have variants put more emphasis not on the differences between the variants
but rather, put more emphasis on the differences in how you use the item
tawny garden
ah, that sounds reasonable
hollow shell
Okay I can see that
Could still be potentially confusing/unhelpful but it's a neat concept
sand umbra
current system is arguably more confusing
hollow shell
also rq
You know SotC is a Darksun wep right
sand umbra
yes
hollow shell
Alright
You don't acknowledge the tier shift in your doc (or the fact that it'd become asymmetrical with the Vamp Knives upgrade) so I was wonderin
sand umbra
just edited it a bit to acknowledge the fact that SotC is in fact currently a Darksun wep
hollow shell
I see
I uhhh
I was gonna say that that would be a point of conflict/discussion, if/when these get implemented
but like
... yknow
sand umbra
yeeeeeeah
high level of specification is far from the only reason I don't plan to ever throw this out there as a proper suggestion 
more than anything, I did this as sort of a "what if"/for fun kinda deal
I don't expect it to ever happen but it's nice to brainstorm what could be
helps keep my item design game on point, too
cobalt pewter
LMAO
I red gsealboi's sugg about pwnage
And my line of thought was this
Maybe it can be stealth
Oh wait melee/rogue
I wonder if tom reposts his sugg
And voila, right below it is the melee/rogue sugg from tom
sand umbra
craggy stratus
this suggestion is top tier
violet dagger
aren't all of thomas's sugg top tier
sand umbra
my, you are just too kind
which makes it all the better that you're right 
(maybe. I'm not sure if some folks like the way I go about suggestions, given a lot of the things I suggest would actively make playing the game more of a necessary task)
hollow shell
New suggestion
Take inspiration from Hollow Knight
Add a mode where you don't have any exploration, you just go through the bosses one by one and you have all gear available to you
violet dagger
heady storm
Boss Rush.
violet dagger
rover making meme suggs
hollow shell
Seems like that kinda game is what some people want..
heady storm
It would be started with an item known as the Terminus.
sand umbra
at this point, I wouldn't even be surprised
tawny garden
I've never seen Rover memesugging before 👀
radiant meadow
Terraria is just not designed to have a boss rush.
due to the mechanics, power scale of Terraria, and how Terraria bosses work
sand umbra
they all just sort of perish to any gear beyond their tier unless they're exponentially buffed to compensate
tawny garden
Seems like that kinda game is what some people want..
lol, I want something diametrically opposite to that
(yes, I'm looking at you, post-Moon Lord part)
sand umbra
at which point it's not hard to just. make it a different boss outright