Factor in difficulty modifiers and damage variation.
#suggestions-discussion
left ice
sinful steeple
Yeah, in Death
dense ferry
I believe I get hit for like, 180
sinful steeple
I'm looking at the wiki rn, it says 124 damage on contact in Death
left ice
Yes. Critical hits do 50% more, plus damage variation can go up to an additional +15%, which puts it at 213 damage.
So I admit, my estimate was a bit high, but keep in mind that they are near impossible dodge sometimes.
sinful steeple
Enemies don't crit and I don't think they get damage variation either
left ice
Enemies do crit and do get variation in damage. Or they crit in defiled, at least.
sinful steeple
They crit in Defiled, only
And I mean you're not exactly looking for something easy if you're playing Defiled
left ice
Yes, which is something that can be included in "harder difficulties". Which I mentioned.
I didn't say I was wanting something easy. I just don't want the things to harass me every 30 seconds.
radiant meadow
enemies aren't/shouldn't be balanced to defiled crits
left ice
Yeah, that was getting off topic, anyway.
The thing here is less about the damage and more about the fact that they spawn way too often.
sinful steeple
I think you're getting unlucky since they don't spawn that often
left ice
Well, then apparently I've been unlucky for about 60 hours.
They spawn incredibly often and they've done so my entire playthrough.
sinful steeple
A timer that cancels Earth Elemental from spawning as long as one is alive/was recently alive would probably work better
Also once I got over 20 armoured cavefish while waiting for an Earth Elemental to show up, spawns vary a lot
left ice
And then I'm over here getting multiple in the 60 second long fall down to the underworld. ;-;
sinful steeple
I doubt that
left ice
I literally just got two and an armored digger on the way down. That's what finally pushed me over the edge.
sinful steeple
But it's RNGesus and RNGesus does the impossible and more
left ice
Yeah, RNGesus hates me, so I guess that's a fair point. I recently spent 30 plat reforging a snowman cannon to unreal. ;-;
hollow shell
@loud lily Your suggestion could prolly have more to it, it's a tad small
What's some stuff in the lore that you think could have more representation in-game?
loud lily
the lore about providence
i read the lore and it seemed that providence was weakened and wasnt able to fight at her full capacity
maybe if there was a way to have her use all her energy
and possibly be even harder?
radiant meadow
she's already pretty strong at night, if you want a challenge, just do that
loud lily
maybe explore more about yharim in the game as well? he was a pretty big factor in the lore having literally tamed DoG
radiant meadow
Yharim will come in time
slow sphinx
Does the summoner damage debuff apply to all non-summoner weapons, or just weapons that are from other classes?
hollow shell
Just other classes
You can hold classless weapons and not get nerfed
such as Golden Gun
slow sphinx
Does it include pickaxes?
fossil finch
Yes
grim tusk
i feel like death ph3 OD needs a nerf
the toothballs specially
on ph2 they are ok-ish since there is not so much going on, on ph3 you have teleporting OD, sharkron gore rain and the toothballs are way more obstructive than the vortexes in there leaving you no space to dodge and OD is a boss which cannot be facetanked so you'll surely be dead if cornered by the balls
and rev ph1 needs a buff
OD also has a habit of occasionally despawning in ph3 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/225030931008847874/750499241704554516/OD_despawns.mp4 so increase the range needed for it to despawn
skip to 0:35
radiant meadow
despawn range is getting increased next update I think
clever canopy
I’ve tanked OD in rev
But you do have to run a very specifically tank based loadout for that
dapper coral
this is almost identical to this other sugg: https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/744339014693421176
which is not bad, necessarily
cobalt pewter
SSV ain't a donator item yes?
violet dagger
it isn't
dapper coral
no it is not iirc
cobalt pewter
I'd personally say yes to the sugg
violet dagger
its a resugg
dapper coral
by a different person, yes
dapper coral
just keep in mind that if that previous sugg didn't make it to dev, then having almost the exact same ideas/reasoning probably won't help it get much further
violet dagger
maybe they sugg'd it at a bad time
dapper coral
it seemed to be at a time where 180 was the sugg limit
...so actually, it wasn't very far off at all
vivid kestrel
It was actually sent when the votes needed was 240
dapper coral
but then those other two next to it shouldn't have gone to dev, right?
violet dagger
wait what this is confusing
heady storm
Mmm so what's going on atm?
violet dagger
the sugg should've been sent
it meets the 170 req that was back then
this is the raising message
dapper coral
so essentially, this is very similar to a sugg that someone made a couple weeks ago
cobalt pewter
just keep in mind that if that previous sugg didn't make it to dev, then having almost the exact same ideas/reasoning probably won't help it get much further
Well fuck my extra diff reward sugg then
And my moonwalking sugg
dapper coral
but there's confusion as to whether that sugg should've made it through or not, or at least the ones around it
cobalt pewter
Hell, the former has been reposted thrice already?
heady storm
Ah.
heady storm
It shouldn't have I believe.
dapper coral
oh wait yeah
retroactive approval
never mind then
so it was 240 back then
cool, so anyway
heady storm
This all cleared up?
heady storm
Honestly a big fan of such an idea.
radiant meadow
SSV is getting changed next update
cobalt pewter
rip
heady storm
violet dagger
:echsad:
unreal viper
Uh.
Ben, you could just say copy and paste of razor blade typhoon, it’s much more accurate.
radiant meadow
I say Tears of Heaven because the shoot code in them was the same. Which is basically shotgun code but whatever
cobalt pewter
when would nuclear fury be reworked to be like recitation of da beast
Speaking of the latter
The scythe thing on the sprite is too big compared to the book itself
I always thought recitation of the beast is a bag instead of a book because of that
radiant meadow
@versed forge please read the pinned document. Specific Item suggestions aren't allowed.
heady storm
I tried to tell them in #general-talk.
radiant meadow
The document has guidelines on what to and not to suggest.
versed forge
Hmph.
cobalt pewter
I love how the response is just "hmph"
violet dagger
bots going to remove it soon ™️
radiant meadow
Is it even worth keeping?
versed forge
Probably not worth.
heady storm
I mean, it is possible for them to edit it appropriately.
radiant meadow
Might be better to just rewrite a better one than try to edit the current one
hollow shell
It can't have a name or a specifically laid out function
You need to word it in a way that is general and leaves room for the devs to decide on the specifics
versed forge
alright
hollow shell
i.e.
Only include the most important aspect(s) of your sugg
and of course, add a reason why you want this to be in the mod
heady storm
The camper already does this base idea apparently.
Actually, let me check the recipe for the camper again.
Oh, it uses shiny stone itself.
radiant meadow
yes, it does
heady storm
Hmmm.
versed forge
Tried to re-make it
glass sentinel
yah it uses all regen items basically
although with mage just press j
then wait like 5 secs
versed forge
issue is
glass sentinel
and mana regen is really good anyhow
versed forge
i
HATE
mana sickness
glass sentinel
5 secs
like cmon
or just like manage mana
also if they do implement this there will be a massive downside
radiant meadow
There still isn't really any reasoning in the sugg why an item like that should be added to Cal.
glass sentinel
the camper gives insane regen, but its expert plus and you can attack while using it
crafting potions takes like max 5 mins
the lesser and normal ones ocme from pots so you'll just randomly come across them
greater can be bought
versed forge
There still isn't really any reasoning in the sugg why an item like that should be added to Cal.
Probably would be better in a more... vanilla-like mod.
Thorium could be a good bet
glass sentinel
oh dear
versed forge
am i... not allowed to mention Thorium or are we over the "mod-war"
versed forge
can i have a link to their discord then?
violet dagger
every terraria mod discord has a sugg channel at this point
however their system is miles behind calam's which leads to stuff like this
versed forge
what server is that?
violet dagger
redemption im p sure
versed forge
and why you using darkmode? it hurts my eyes ;-;
violet dagger
I didn't take the photo
versed forge
alright
violet dagger
someone who hates darkmode
versed forge
🗿
sturdy geyser
redemption suggestions 
radiant meadow
anyways
versed forge
why would you play redemption when you could play [GOOD_MOD]
radiant meadow
this is wandered off long enough
violet dagger
redemption is [GOOD_MOD] but this is getting into #other-mod-talk
violet dagger
no
heady storm
They did this before?
ashen warren
Good idea bro
heady storm
You insist Rover?
cobalt pewter
??
violet dagger
they posted meme suggs in the past
cobalt pewter
What was the sugg?
hollow shell
Meme boss
cobalt pewter
Beh
ashen warren
Morshu
heady storm
Like, should I actually warn for this Rover?
hollow shell
I know this isn't the first time he's done something weird
At the very least a verbal warn
heady storm
Alrighty then, what Rover said.
radiant meadow
Warn them
hollow shell
Please read the rules and the Don'ts doc, Jacob
heady storm
Oh.
hollow shell
If you break them again you can be muted
ashen warren
Morshu as a boss is a 2000 iq idea
cobalt pewter
...
radiant meadow
Case in point
violet dagger
just stop
heady storm
Okay yeah, stop with this already.
radiant meadow
@ashen warren You've been told to not post meme suggestions before. You also seem to not care and refuse to follow the guidelines. This is not the first instance, so this will be a warn.
If you continue this misbehavior, you will receive a mute.
ashen warren
Add a meme suggestions channel then
hollow shell
Nah
heady storm
No.
violet dagger
sturdy geyser
violet dagger
just go to #the-distraction-zone ez
radiant meadow
Suggestions are meant to improve the mod. Memes will not qualify.
If you want to post memes, go to a different server.
violet dagger
with this latest sugg this is also just yes
considering how rare bloodworms are
it makes sense
im p sure I mentioned this sugg somewhere in the past but ima just post it now
dapper coral
to be honest i think the sugg could be tightened to just having a config
because having an animation only play a few times disregarding whether you killed it or not is probably janky/seems weird
ooh
maybe you could change that part to "have the animation only play before you defeat AD" then, sort of like how DoG used to summon sentinels until you beat him
@violet dagger
violet dagger
I'm thinking of doing it have a config
and make it not play when using starcore
starcore would also be kinda thematic since it isn't really a "sacrifice" like a titan heart
cobalt pewter
Honestly, the animation actually helps prepping in certain cases
dapper coral
that works too
white falcon
One question really quick
dapper coral
ask away
white falcon
Would it be disallowed to suggest a kind of Phoenix rebirth animation for yharon transitioning to his second stage
dapper coral
mmm
hollow shell
You could suggest that
dapper coral
i believe summon/death animations would fall under the 'large amount of effort' don't
but i'm not sure
heady storm
- Boss death animations
These aren't allowed, that would be yeah.
hollow shell
Death animations are frequently suggested
dapper coral
i suppose technically it's not a death animation
hollow shell
but this is more of a phase transition animation
heady storm
Ye.
white falcon
So am I clear, or should I think of something else
violet dagger
If this does happen I'd definitely see it happening with yharons new sprite in like 2 months
hollow shell
I think that you're fine
white falcon
It’ll probably be along the lines of,”The current shift to phase two is very bland and lackluster for a battle between the player and the tyrant king’s dragon”
violet dagger
Sounds good
white falcon
Wish me luck
violet dagger
And I don't think there's any problem with phoenix thematics considering yharon was called jungle phoenix in the very early days of the mod
So he is related to them most likely
hollow shell
Definitely has phoenix themes, that guy
And yeah the current shift is just
He roars, he glows rainbow (but mostly orange cuz that's all you can see through the shader), and then he stops glowing rainbow
hollow shell
I think so
violet dagger
If he does then that should probably be mentioned somewhere on the wiki but that's #wiki-discussion stuff
heady storm
Should we add?
dapper coral
may as well
hollow shell
Huh, I guess it's not mentioned anywhere on the page
Not even that the bordernados are rainbow which they definitely are
white falcon
Also, thanks rover for helping me with both of the suggestions I’ve posted, you’ve been very helpful
hollow shell
np 👍
violet dagger
Also with the random spread of projectiles you mention, I'm not sure that the fire ball rings he has now are that exactly but it's just a simple thing that needs to be changed
hollow shell
Yeah I gotta ask
How recently did you last fight Yharon? Cuz he does have patterned bullet hell phases now
unless that's the "random spread" you're talkin about
hollow shell
aight
violet dagger
I'd reword it since it isn't really a random spread but other than that sugg is good
white falcon
There’s these walls of fireballs that just careen into a location in your “general direction”
hollow shell
I personally haven't fought the newest version of the fight so I can't uhhh...
I don't know for sure
hollow shell
aight ye
dapper coral
can verify, there are fireballs that he summons when he transitions but they're random and not difficult to avoid
white falcon
It’s really boring in that phase, and it REALLY doesn’t give the music piece justice
violet dagger
Can also confirm he summons detonating flames to screw you up in the bullet hells 
white falcon
MMHM
Also, is the leviathan fight getting a buff? If not, I’d LOVE to share some ideas
white falcon
Hopefully.
violet dagger
About the yharon rainbow thing you can actually disable the shader and see it using different color lighting options
I'ma try that later
white falcon
I was thinking in the phase where the leviathan shows up, anahita could act as a kind of support for her and create some projectile patterns
And if anahita dies before the leviathan, the spawn rates of the adds could increase, along with charge frequency, and a pattern where the leviathan starts shooting meteors so fast her teeth become projectiles
hollow shell
Well that last bit's a bit specific but generally yeah
violet dagger
#suggestions-posting message I think this sugg isn't formatted correctly but I have no idea what the bot does
violet dagger
Formatting always confuses me on what it needs
violet dagger
I always just do bold and a line space
hollow shell
Some people think you need two line breaks
but ya only need one
And people like to bold it but it isn't necessary
violet dagger
Bold is good because you can tell what the main idea of the sugg is but it's better being optional
tawny garden
You don't even need a line break, the api doesn't crash if you specify NULL as a embed field content
hollow shell
Philo get outta here with your nerd shit
tawny garden
It's just that it's needed by the rules
dapper coral
Philo why are you getting big brain in suggs, that's what calwikibasic is for
heady storm
tawny garden
cobalt pewter
I'm not saying in a technical term ya nerd
But ig you don't really need one
I was talking about readability
hollow shell
@heady storm welp
hollow idol
good suggestion
ashen warren
Ty
heady storm
Have a mute.
hollow shell
I also saw your wooden toilet suggestion @hot vault
heady storm
Thank you for pinging me Rover.
hollow shell
okay
hot vault
wont happen again
golden narwhal
Uhh
heady storm
@mild sail you need reasoning to go along with your suggestion.
gray nebula
no need for the "edit:"s
especially when the edit is editing in the actual reasoning
vast horizon
Is it okay If I submit/make Warframe sprites for Calamity? some armor like the God slayer armor looks like I can make a vanity Sprite to make it look like Mag Prime, I can also submit a Primed Dye to give armor a gold/white/silver look
vast horizon
ah, i was thinking of sumbitting more warframe themed weapons and armor
dapper coral
@hollow elm what makes you think we need a new boss?
untold cargo
dapper coral
and actually, new bosses fall under the don't for large content
so this sugg is pretty much invalid
hollow elm
oof okay
sturdy geyser
hollow elm
man crab with gun suggestion is to powerful
dapper coral
i recommend that you read this:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OA3GxJ4w4QA4pCkngwt8kqW8Qq18U5KOCUJEucUS8ck/edit?usp=sharing
violet dagger
Also seems like a meme to me
dapper coral
before you make suggestions
hollow elm
damn another crab boss would be nice though
oh okay
also just a mechanical boss actually made by the calamity guys would be pretty cool
violet dagger
That is coming I think
violet dagger
Draedon is gonna have powered up mech bosses to guard him I'm p sure
dapper coral
draedon is basically mech boss supreme
hollow elm
okay thats lit
dapper coral
so when that happens, that'll be the mech boi
hollow idol
I still question why the fight is called "Draedon" but thats a topic for another day
hollow elm
mech version of the crab would be lit though you have to agree
hollow elm
could force a much more grounded style of combat through aa guns and rockets
dapper coral
I still question why the fight is called "Draedon" but thats a topic for another day
because after you beat up the mechs, draedon comes down there to punch you in the face
swift wharf
aureus is kinda crab 2
hollow elm
oh yeah
dapper coral
anyway, any more speculation/boss ideas can go to another channel now
hollow idol
movement is more crab-like
hollow elm
alright figured i would try thank you for your time and considerations
dapper coral
hollow idol
tawny garden
that won't matter too much, devs can decide for themselves if this ever gets to them
gaunt quest
I don't think the hook crafting is very good imo but oh well
dapper coral
then don't star it, it's as simple as that
gaunt quest
I star everything
We did have a discussion on it earlier but I mean it's still okay of an idea
bold panther
what do you think the encrypted schematics will do? i think they might be used to summon draedon.
radiant meadow
this isn't the place to make speculations
bold panther
oh sorry the stupid app glitches when i join channels
dapper coral
Something that would usually take twice as long to kill and many more tries usually just takes about 5 minutes
what are you referring to here? i don't know of any boss that takes over 5 minutes in singleplayer, other than maybe SCal/Boss Rush @flint sky
flint sky
ill change that then
dapper coral
then maybe you should say something like
Something that would usually take twice as long to kill and many more tries is way too easy in multiplayer, which...
flint sky
yeah that sounds good
dapper coral
kay, that's better
flint sky
theres also the thing that its kinda hard to dodge sometimes when the boss is targeting the other player
like providence
or yharon
where it comes out of nowhere
clever canopy
@flint sky use better multiplayer
radiant meadow
icarus' folly makes you emanate holy fire dust
flint sky
whats that @clever canopy
tawny garden
that's a mod
clever canopy
Mod that disables respawning while a boss is alive
Makes multiplayer actually balanced
flint sky
i see
hollow shell
That does sound balanced
violet dagger
Now fix the multiplayer bugs
tawny garden
can't
heady storm
You need the dedicatee's permission to do this, yeah.
radiant meadow
Tiger Skin is like part of the reference so good luck convincing
swift wharf
Adding a recipe for the tiger skin then?
sand umbra
there have already been suggs about that
swift wharf
Or rare drop
sand umbra
several of them
and wouldn't you know it, all of them have to do with Handheld Tank
dapper coral
gee i wonder why
hollow shell
@dapper mortar You donated for the Handheld Tank item, right? Would you be alright with Tiger Skin being removed from the recipe or would you rather not?
violet dagger
I think the better option would be to just make it craftable
or add a way to summon the travelling merchant
hollow shell
@ashen warren No
ashen warren
Rip
dapper coral
that is the wrong chat for this sir
ashen warren
Ok
hollow shell
Not for this channel
violet dagger
wot i didnt even see anything
dapper coral
good
hollow shell
meme
ashen warren
fast as shit
violet dagger
#the-distraction-zone time
ashen warren
do sugmas get sent whenever they reach 200 or 201+
hollow shell
200
hollow shell
We coulda argued for 201 or even 202 cuz of the bot vote and maybe a suggester self-vote
but, nah, 200 is just easier
radiant meadow
kinda pointless
sand umbra
a nice, even number
radiant meadow
but I wouldn't mind the req being 207
hollow shell
Who're the other 5 people to ignore
radiant meadow
nobody, it's not even a prime number though, it's divisible by 9 and 3
hollow shell
oh
ashen warren
oh
sand umbra
ben pls
dapper coral
nobody, it's not even a prime number though, it's divisible by 9 and 3
is there a reference here, or is ben being big brain math man
radiant meadow
Let me direct you to the Plague Reaper armor recipe
radiant meadow
I think Marksman Bow too
dapper mortar
@dapper mortar You donated for the Handheld Tank item, right? Would you be alright with Tiger Skin being removed from the recipe or would you rather not?
@hollow shell i would be fine with that i guess
hollow shell
Aight thank you Hannes
dapper mortar
No problem
dapper coral
Phangasm recently got fixed, didn't it?
as in, vanquisher arrows did, which is basically a direct fix for phangasm since that's the only arrow you use phangasm with
hollow shell
I don't think it's very helpful to just say that "certain weapons" are laggy
with only Phangasm as an example
Probably would be good to list more examples in your sugg @robust shuttle
rapid pivot
What do you all think of a suggestion to make the buff for summon weapons like, say, the Stardust Dragon, or the Mechworm, to display how many slots that minion is taking up if you mouse over it?
Would that be possible, and would you vote for it?
rapid pivot
Hm. Does it work with calamity weapons?
hollow shell
It should, yes
Even if it doesn't detect which minion is using which slots specifically it will always display your max slots and how much are currently being used
(last time I checked at least some Calamity minions are picked up by the mod and will show each slot usage)
rapid pivot
Mm. Either way, I still think it should be a calamity feature, mostly because of the Mechworm staff; it explicitly says that if you're using over 10 minion slots for it, you're wasting them for nothing.
And given it's kinda hard to count how many segments it has..
radiant meadow
most Calamity minions have support
Sirius, Saros Possession, Infected Remote, and Abandoned Slime Staff don't have support due to how they work.
west jackal
You have to wait a week to post the same suggestion right?
dapper coral
if it didn't make it to the star requirement, then yes
unique reef
i might repost my Nighttime PSC suggestion eventually
hollow idol
Devourer of Worlds 
fringe sky
did i oopsy
hollow idol
Its Devourer of Gods
fringe sky
thanks
hollow idol
np
dapper coral
oh that's interesting, the body hitbox is too small but the head hitbox is too large
huh
hollow shell
Body hitboxes being too small is totally fine
violet dagger
Haha yes my screenshot
Anyways ye that is def too big
Could definitely be scaled down quite a bit
And the only thing you need to pay attention to is red hitboxes
The orange ones are summons
vocal grotto
Are you sure that DoG head hitbox is correct? It looks like it's using a circular, custom hitbox.
// Can only hit the target if within certain distance
public override bool CanHitPlayer(Player target, ref int cooldownSlot)
{
cooldownSlot = 1;
Rectangle targetHitbox = target.Hitbox;
float dist1 = Vector2.Distance(npc.Center, targetHitbox.TopLeft());
float dist2 = Vector2.Distance(npc.Center, targetHitbox.TopRight());
float dist3 = Vector2.Distance(npc.Center, targetHitbox.BottomLeft());
float dist4 = Vector2.Distance(npc.Center, targetHitbox.BottomRight());
float minDist = dist1;
if (dist2 < minDist)
minDist = dist2;
if (dist3 < minDist)
minDist = dist3;
if (dist4 < minDist)
minDist = dist4;
return minDist <= 80f && npc.alpha <= 0;
}
I mean, apparently Piano's havin trouble even with the circular shape
so, screenshot's a no-go but the sugg's still valid
violet dagger
Modders toolkit can only detect the hitboxes set by the width and height things
vocal grotto
Yeah, width and height is 186. Which would be very wonky at times
subtle oracle
fringe sky
yeah i didn't have a screen, thanks @hollow shell (sorry for the late response, just beat boss rush)
hollow shell
You should clarify that (apparently) the image isn't fully accurate
DoG's head hitbox is circular
hollow shell
I'm unsure
Real hitbox (hitcircle, rather) has a radius of 80 pixels
so, you could try to put together an image with a 160-diameter circle overlaid & centered onto DoG's head (as long as it's a pixel-perfect screenshot or the wiki image maybe)
(Real pixels, btw
not Terraria's sprites' 2x2 pixels)
fringe sky
can't do that rn as i'm about to head to bed sorry
if i'm not busy i'll try and get it done tomorrow, if not maybe someone else could take a screen of it? idk
hollow shell
aight
clever canopy
Does anyone have any comments on my suggestion here: #suggestions-posting message it’s got a couple hours left but haven’t had any feedback so might as well ask
tawny garden
It seems good to me
cobalt pewter
@limpid mason
- Dummy testing isn't super accurate
- You'll need kill times on a certain boss (in deathhail's case, yharon would be the easiest) with other mage weapons of similar tier (that means post dog and pre darksun)
cobalt pewter
Mhm, you'll need to provide at least minutes
No need to be extremely accurate
But it helps
You can also provide avg dps against the same boss
That'd be massively helpful
Instead of dummy testing
limpid mason
Okay, will do
tawny garden
Kill times are needed because dps isn't the only factor
Cause I remember myself trying out the deathhail staff against yharon, and helium flash actually did a lot better for me
cobalt pewter
Yeah, that's why I prefaced with kill time instead of DPS
The DPS is a nice dressing
But the important thing is kill time
limpid mason
Done.
zenith hazel
we're aware that deathhail is broken
limpid mason
Oh really?
zenith hazel
we're gonna get around to nerfing that eventually
limpid mason
Oh, that's great to hear!
zenith hazel
maybe next major update when there's time to take care of the major rebalances
limpid mason
Have there been any thoughts about Mana Polarizer?
In my opinion, it's healing from non-bosses is far too good
and is amazing for events
you can use it up to Plantera, by which time you replace it with Sigil of Calamitas.
hot vault
i have an idea for a suggestion i could post, mainly about multiplayer cheesing. i had the thought that when a player dies in multiplayer during a boss fight, they stay dead until either the boss has been defeated or every player has died, and instead of the camera staying fixed on the player's death location for the rest of the fight (which would be rather boring if your friend is much better than you) you are allowed to move around the world as a ghost similar to the way you can spectate your world after dying in hardcore, and obviously after the boss dies/despawns, the player respawn timer reappears. this would eliminate multiplayer respawn cheesing, which i feel is a bit cheap for mods such as calamity where difficulty is the main focus. this could either be an all-round change or a rev+ change.
just wanted anyone's thought or feedback
hollow shell
Would probably be hard to program a 'temporary' ghost state
hot vault
true
possibly a state where, after dying while the boss is alive, the player can't deal or take damage
hollow shell
Maybe
hot vault
the thing is, whenever i play multiplayer, we pretty much kill every boss on our first go simply because we keep respawning and wormholing back, which can get irritating due to the lack of difficulty/skill required
should i post it?
hollow shell
Should note that there is a mod for this
Better Multiplayer
just disables respawning when you died to a boss
hot vault
ah right
hollow shell
But this would definitely be good to add to Calamity, at least as a config
cuz
yeah respawn cheese removes like all challenge
hot vault
yeah, as well with the problem of not being able to see the fight, and it being boring to wait for the boss to die or your friend to die
k i'll post it, thanks rover
hollow shell
np
hollow shell
"and after the boss is defeated/despawns, the respawn timer begins."
oh, I thought you were imagining the player does respawn but gets a debuff with those effects
I don't think programming a state between dead and alive will be super easy
which is the 'temporary ghost state' I mentioned earlier
hot vault
ah yes, that is pretty much wat i meant let me reword it
is it better now?
the debuff could be names something like "ghost" or "spectating" where the player is still there, but is technically dead and blah blah blah (there could possibly be some sort of cosmetic half invisible/ghost effect to go along with it but i hit the character limit in my suggestion)
hopefully it suffices but it is rather late right now so i must go
clever canopy
Bruh just use better multiplayer
weak field
They said that you could use it
But calamity mod is already like a million qol mod bundled together
One more won't hurt
clever canopy
You really want someone to take time out of their life to code something that already exists, but takes a few extra clicks to get?
ashen warren
let's add recipe browser to calamity, it has way too many recipes
clever canopy
I just don’t think it shows much regard for the lives of whoever has to add it
It’s basically saying “yeah I know this already exists but I want it all wrapped up in one package with a ribbon on it”
@hot vault you know that when you die with better multiplayer your camera follows the boss?
Meaning you see all of the action anyway
sand umbra
But calamity mod is already like a million qol mod bundled together
One more won't hurt
have you ever heard the expression "the straw that broke the camel's back", by chance
weak field
Yeah?
clever canopy
Calamity already snapped the camel in two for a lot of people
sand umbra
well yes
sturdy geyser
poor camel
clever canopy
We shouldn’t just suggest features from other qol mods for the sake of it
sand umbra
which is why any change that completely invalidatess an existing QoL mod at this point is sure to drive them even further over the line to the point of no return
Calamity, contrary to what appears to be popular belief, does not need to do everything and shouldn't do everything
clever canopy
If it was a qol change from another big content mod then you might have an argument, but better multiplayer was literally made for this exact scenario
sand umbra
precisely
Calamity doesn't even NEED this sort of change
god knows half the bosses like blowing up in MP anyway because netcode's a bastard and so is some people's ping
clever canopy
Brb gonna write a suggestion to add a toggle for mining ore veins in one click
weak field
ok
sand umbra
excuse me while I write a sugg about making it so the housing menu displays all NPCs you're currently missing and the conditions to get them + gives a marker indicating where they are in relevance to you when you hover over their head in the housing menu, but only those from vanilla and Calamity because compatibility is irrelevant
weak field
ok
sand umbra
(at this point I might end up bothering Rover at some point about a don't regarding QoL changes which are already done by other mods and quite frankly done better)
fossil finch
Doesn't that exists already?
sand umbra
believe it or not, no
and I know because I just stared the don'ts doc down the barrel to check
tawny garden
(at this point I might end up bothering Rover at some point about a don't regarding QoL changes which are already done by other mods and quite frankly done better)
@hollow shell
clever canopy
Yeah I was thinking this suggestion surely must be breaking a rule but nope
hollow shell
I mean
No?
Calamity has a bunch of QoL changes in it, and honestly low-effort QoL suggs are some of the most frequently implemented suggestions
clever canopy
QoL Suggs aren’t the problem
sand umbra
I am aware of this fact but there are mods whose entire purpose is doing some fairly-simple QoL thing (Veinminer, Census, Better Multiplayer is literally the counterargument to this exact sugg)
clever canopy
It’s ones that exist already in dedicated mods
sand umbra
the problem comes when a suggested QoL change for Calamity would directly invalidate one of those smaller, dedicated-to-their-function mods
case in point: this sugg and Better Multiplayer
clever canopy
It also means more work for the coders that really isn’t necessary
sand umbra
^
(bonus points: if you're worried that precedent is an issue, Begone Evil is already cited right next to the evil spreading modification don't as a solution to such a problem)
distant gyro
not only does qol change for calamity invalidate smaller dedicated ones
they also
- increase the mod's size
- remove the customizability of mod browsing
unless make the aforementioned qol change a config which will amplify point 1
hollow shell
"Increase the mod's size"
That is the most minor argument ever
Unless these QoL changes have any sound or are as long as Boss AI files, they're not going to put a dent in it
distant gyro
It adds up.
hollow shell
Yeah to like 2 KB
We should stop adding more content because it's bloating the filesize :P
((also the primary reason for the spreading Don't is that we don't wanna fuck with vanilla gen. Begone Evil is just cited by us, the suggpeople, as an alternative option for people who want that feature))
distant gyro
it figuratively increases mod size regardless ie. wiki purposes, also vanilla item recipes is actually 40 KB
not a lot of people want to read a 5 page block of vanilla changes
hollow shell
m
Someone could make a suggestion about separating off Calamity's QoL changes into a separate mod
along with perhaps culling those that are redundant with other mods
(In fact people have made suggs about that, it was just a while ago and they preformed very poorly)
hot vault
uhh ok i apologise for everything... i wasn’t aware that better multiplayer followed the boss camera or whatever but i probably should have done my research so i’ll remove the sugg
sand umbra
"but Thomas aren't you in the middle of a--"
the new material removal series suggs can wait, I feel an intense need to make this happen
hot vault
i’d rather avoid any more of this
cobalt pewter
yet another Calamity addon suggested by rover
how much is there anyways
pretty sure there are more than 20 unofficial addons
sand umbra
the difference is that this one would be official
tawny garden
sand umbra
cobalt pewter
Cursed
sand umbra
can't wait for this to reach voting and receive all of 2 and a half stars
cobalt pewter
KEK
gray nebula
"on a platform that inherently supports loading multiple mods at once "
insert funny cross compat bugs
cobalt pewter
honestly I don't have much hopes for my suggestion quality, the only ones that got enough votes are QoL ones
hollow shell
Actual full cross compat bugs are somewhat rare
sand umbra
that, and they're not the point here 
gray nebula
yeah i know its still funny
hollow shell
I'm not sure what your argument is with the music mod tho Thomas
gray nebula
yeah its just deflecting the question 
dapper coral
yeah, i feel like sarcasm/whatever that is isn't really...conducive for a sugg
gray nebula
also if the reasoning is "give other small qol mods a chance", sadly thats not really a concern for calamity itself from a heartless machine's point of view
gray nebula
golem is too boring of a boss to get a cool spawn anim 👊
cobalt pewter
smh yall did golem dirty
gray nebula
(and also give calam bosses cool spawn anims first before giving one to the boring vanilla one at least)
sand umbra
rewrote the music mod point
cobalt pewter
I was necessarily meant the altars themselves with an anim, not the boss spawning
Idc if golem just spawned outta thin air
gray nebula
personally idk the music mod still seems more useful than a separate qol mod
the music mod was just separated because it was taking way too much space in the main mod
sand umbra
the music mod also goes over the 50MB Git-linked upload limit anyway
cobalt pewter
Deus technically also spawned outta nowhere, just prefaced with a cool swirly shit
sand umbra
which to me seems like it'd just make it more aggravating to keep up for less benefit
cobalt pewter
On the altar
gray nebula
i wouldnt say it has less of a benefit tho 
itd be a complete pain to have the music go into the main mod
sand umbra
mm
cobalt pewter
I'd consider provi's as a proper spawn animation
gray nebula
easily more than doubling the upload time 
cobalt pewter
But definitely not Deus
hollow shell
Yeah uhhh there's definitely more benefit to the music mod from a data management standpoint
cobalt pewter
It's more of the altar's anim, not the boss spawn anim imo
sand umbra
ech
hollow shell
Download & upload speeds, and memory consideration
sand umbra
should I just remove the point then
hollow shell
Maybe
gray nebula
because music isnt updated as often as the main mod, theres no need to take up download speed to reupload the same thing that didnt change
and yes
tawny garden
(yes)
hollow shell
Unless you can think of any other reason
gray nebula
atm i really doubt itll reach the 200 stars just because of its size alone
cobalt pewter
no one has the patience
gray nebula
usually the more concise and straight to the point you are the better
cobalt pewter
And that's why my extra diff reward never went through after reposted twice, hm
gray nebula
get better at it
cobalt pewter
God damnit
sand umbra
I've tried
gray nebula
especially when theres also like 10 other suggs to read, usually i just scroll through without reading if the thing looks like a wall of text
sand umbra
attempted to shorten it up
I'm terrible at being concise and I don't know what else can perish without defeating the point
this isn't like the material removal suggs where I literally have to draw it out by 2 sentences to actually have a sufficiently long reason 
hollow shell
Yes
radiant meadow
A third mod to manage sounds
And deathhail staff will be nerfed after the hotfix most likely
I didn't want to dive headfirst into balancing until after the hotfix
zenith hazel
yea I forgot to delete that
hollow shell
Wait delete what?
I guess if it's already getting nerfed then the sugg would be fine to remove
left ice
Difficulty modifiers don't change the chance for events to occur, right?
left ice
Yeah, I didn't think there was. I was just making sure.
radiant meadow
No effect
simple frigate
will something like the titans from titfanfall ever be added? will it work like the flamsteed summon if so?
cuz i would l o v e that
tawny garden
(also you can't sugg a reference)
simple frigate
oh sorry
dapper coral
is a non-standard door opening noise for lab doors planned eventually? because if it isn't, i was thinking of suggesting it
hollow shell
Dunno if it's possible but if it is, that'd be nice
tawny garden
it's possible, but may take like 7 years to do
hollow shell
(btw congratz on full mod, Demik)
dapper coral
(thanks, much appreciated)
hollow shell
ah so like any unprecedented feature then
tawny garden
but if doors would open with some mechanical sound, that would be pretty 
fringe sky
gm did anyone make the right screen or no
also i'm unsure how pixels would work regarding zoom
dapper coral
boink
hollow shell
I could do it right now with a wiki image ig
tawny garden
reminder to me to get some audio files of the starbound lab door sound
hmm, sounds like a no
unless it's just an e.g.
fringe sky
if you could that'd be great
dapper coral
yeah, i don't mean copy the sound exactly
tawny garden
dapper coral
just to put it there as a way for people to understand what i mean by a proper-sounding lab door
tawny garden
(btw lab doors don't have a custom sound irl 
)
dapper coral
(why tf not, time to upload a hotfix to reality)
hollow shell
Aight, here we go
Red circle is head hitbox
Orange square is body hitbox (not necessary but I thought I'd include anyway)
tawny garden
wow
fringe sky
huh
sand umbra
big chungus hitbox
hollow shell
As you can see
It leaks around the sides of the head a pretty good amount
fringe sky
honestly it seemed bigger when fighting dog
are hitboxes able to be oval shape
b/c that might help out
tawny garden
that's still improper
hollow shell
mmm we could probably math something to make that happen
tawny garden
does @ Dom make the hitboxes?
violet dagger
Sprite perfect hitboxes
vocal grotto
Ozz made that code
hollow shell
Right now it's not specified to be "circle"
It's detecting if (any four corners of) the player are within a certain distance of DoG's head's center
which results in a circle shape
tawny garden
ah ok
fringe sky
gotcha so it's a radius
sand umbra
that's still a like
hollow shell
Yeah
sand umbra
really fat hitbox
fringe sky
probably then the best way is to break it up into 3 radius hitboxes
two smaller ones at the ends
vocal grotto
Maybe if the radius was reduced and the hitbox was offset to specifically be at the jaws
fringe sky
and a bigger one in the middle
which is how smash does their hitboxes more or less
that could work too dom
cobalt pewter
Yeah specifically at the jaws would be pog
Or the instakill hitbox would just be at the jaws
fringe sky
yeah
robust lava
What about two hitboxes, one rectangular one covering the back teeth to the first jewel thing, and then a circular one on the jaws?
tawny garden
that'd work
cobalt pewter
Yeah
fringe sky
yeah
cobalt pewter
The circular one could be used as instakill hitbox in dmode instead
tawny garden
If dmode
The original hitbox can stay
changing hitboxes based on difficulty
cobalt pewter
hollow shell
If rectangle is possible then this would be nice
(red echo just for reference. Blue box is new hitbox)
fringe sky
yeah
hollow shell
I'm going to assume it's not possible/easy to do this because otherwise we would have done it
fringe sky
that'd be great
perfect actually
i mean is it possible to do that but with a bunch of smaller circles laying on top of each other?
radiant meadow
rectangle mean it would be fat when rotated 90 degrees
because hitboxes don't rotate
hollow shell
Yeah rotation would be a concern
raven moon
wait thats why i keep dying to dog phase 2
tawny garden
because hitboxes don't rotate
ok wtf
hollow shell
Well I mean uhhhh
raven moon
i thought i was just being sloppy
hollow shell
We could
do rotation ourselves
by modifying "CanHurtPlayer" like we do currently
taking the sprite's angle into account
fringe sky
like this
radiant meadow
Philo, that's like Lesson 1 of Hitboxes 101
fringe sky
kind of
ashen warren
is that why the lasers hitboxes are so fucked up
ashen warren
h
cobalt pewter
Ah yes
hollow shell
Because like DoG's true hitbox is the big square you see in this image
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/465195069406707722/750938922984538233/unknown.png
cobalt pewter
I did notice smth like that
radiant meadow
well, unless you want people to complain for them being too unfair rather than being too lenient
ashen warren
people already hate the destroyer
fringe sky
i honestly think the leniency is more fair when it comes to something like instant death
hollow shell
but what if we made a shape
that did rotate or manually recalculate its edges in accordance with the NPC angle
and had that be the thing that is defined as the boundaries in CanHurtPlayer
fringe sky
also glad that i was able to help spur this discussion
radiant meadow
manually recalculating edges sounds like a lot of extra work.
sand umbra
if done correctly, it'd actually be incredibly easy I think
hollow shell
Use some fat sexy trigonometry
sand umbra
trig pog
hollow shell
Or honestly you can probably just get away with Pythagorean Theorem-ing between the four corners
robust lava
Would something like this work?
hollow shell
(which I guess technically is trig but like it doesn't use "trig functions")
Uhh well
For easiness purposes, any squares would need to be centered on the NPC's center
Which I marked in my image (currently the one in #suggestions-posting) with a red dot
It's right between his eyes and teeth
raven moon
actually couldn't the lab door noise change just be a replaced sound file with the same name?
hollow shell
Uhh actually yeah
You can just turn that square into a circle
and that would be fine
radiant meadow
what was wrong with the lab door sugg?
tawny garden
make a lot of really tiny circle hitboxes the centers of which follow dog's sprite edge
dapper coral
i just wanted to add in a soundfile
tawny garden
what was wrong with the lab door sugg?
demik didn't complete it
dapper coral
if you see, i exclamationified it myself
radiant meadow
then why did you post it
dapper coral
so that i don't forget about it
and also to make sure that it wasn't a dumbass idea to begin with
radiant meadow
Post it in a private server or something then
I don't think it's a good idea to put in half baked suggestions in posting.
dapper coral
i mean, the actual sugg is complete, it's literally just me needing to find some supplementary materials
but fair enough i suppose
distant gyro
add in mc piston sound
dapper coral
that's what i'm tryna find, yeah
raven moon
check starbounds game files
hollow shell
(damn, Starbound doesn't have a page on Sounds-Resource.com)
raven moon
it has mod support so i think you could find it
hollow shell
(I see SOMA though, which probably has some)
dapper coral
what's SOMA?
hollow shell
Successor to Amnesia: The Dark Descent
Not story-wise but made by the same devs
tawny garden
[[google:SOMA]]
red stormBOT
hollow shell
Sci-fi horror thing about robots and the nature of consciousness
raven moon
you can do that?
robust lava
Circle sizes and positions may vary
dapper coral
gotchu
violet dagger
New wiki bot function found 
tawny garden
it's not a wiki bot function
hollow shell
Well I got System Shock 2 sounds and they do indeed contain techno doors but they're like, long
Big doors
tawny garden
we have a google: interwiki
...for some reason
vocal grotto
If I could, I'd make only the jaw part do an instant kill (preferably with an animation of sorts, but that's a different matter), and have the other circle do body damage
Getting killed instantly by the eye/head itself doesn't make too much sense
hollow shell
Here's the most fitting one I could find
dapper coral
ooh that is interesting
tawny garden
sounds like someone breathing via a straw
weak field
That's cool
Not fitting though
It sounds like a door opening in space and the air is escaping
hollow shell
This one kinda works
cobalt pewter
preferably with an animation of sorts
Big yes
tawny garden
oh, I just remembered
cobalt pewter
Imagine everything goes on slow mo as you watch yourself being nommed by dog in animation
tawny garden
hollow shell
Heh
vocal grotto
I mean, phantasm dragon does that where it opens its mouth when you're close
So it's possible
weak field
Rover, that one sounds like minecraft doors for some reason
cobalt pewter
ooh
hollow shell
We should definitely go with that sound Philo
radiant meadow
that last one sounds like a gun
weak field
^
robust lava
That sounds like what FNaF uses
hollow shell
Draedon's gotta keep them open or else he'll run out of power
robust lava
I dislike that I figured that out
dapper coral
yeah that is an ebic sound
tawny garden
darn I need this emote now
dapper coral
sugg it
ashen warren
weak field
Make all doors silent
Reasoning: draedon commited silencer to all the doors
At least we don't have to compost/find a door sound this way
tawny garden
Reasoning: draedon commited silencer to all the doors
smh that's wd no squee
cobalt pewter
Reasoning: draedon commited silencer to all the doors
You say that when in fact they commited breakdown, as I can just run into them and break them into 3 doors each
radiant meadow
I should just make Cal crash with smartdoors instead
dapper coral
i feel like that's a bad idea, but i can't quite place my finger on why
cobalt pewter
radiant meadow
It is
cobalt pewter
Ahh
cobalt pewter
ooof
I never reported it myseld
But I find it funne how I can just ram into them for free doors
radiant meadow
I don't find it funny to hear the same bugs over and over again.
cobalt pewter
weak field
Ben that's malware behaviour
And calamity will most likely get removed
Just like tinkerer's extra
tawny garden
weak field
Do it anyway because it's funny
robust lava
And Underhaul
robust lava
I think so? Now we're offtopic tho
vocal grotto
Yeah, Socc is right.
Messing with mod harmony intentionally is not allowed.
This includes making other mods downright not work.
If we want to force our content to just not respond to their changes, that should be fine though.
weak field
We could always just blame that on a oopsie forgot to extend vanilla tall gate class
Now that I think about it, vanilla doesn't have a tall gate class
robust lava
I think Ben said that Tall Gates are hardcoded to work anyway
vocal grotto
Yeah, tall gates are exceptions
vocal grotto
That's why our gates have been such a pain.
We don't have a big reference to use, and are thus limited by the base door functionality
hollow shell
That's the name yeah
mighty knot
huh
hollow shell
(okay well it only has one S but, close enough)
dapper coral
debuff-wise, it's icarus' folly
english-wise, it can be spelled either way
subtle oracle
Pretty interesting Debuff naming schemes i'd say, but yeah
radiant meadow
It's not easy to just "optimize the mod"
moreover, your suggestion isn't formatted correctly, you'll need more substantial reasoning, and some more solid proof that the mod can be optimized but isn't @worn flax
worn flax
Eh well it was worth a shot
dapper coral
are you going to edit it to reflect the additions you need to make, or should i delete it?
dapper coral
@ashen warren you need to have a reason
unreal star
@ashen warren we already have mechworm
heady storm
And yeah, delete the sugg.
dapper coral
along with formatting it properly
ashen warren
How you mean
dapper coral
why do you think the mod needs more dragons (?) and why do you think it needs another late game summoner set
unreal star
hollow idol
you pinged the wrong person dedede
heady storm
Honestly, wouldn't those be two seperate suggestions too?
dapper coral
i would assume so, unless highqueen has a reason why they should go together
ashen warren
Dragon's cus dragons are cool, and if done right nothing fits better then dragons for the theme of 'calamity' (look at smaug) a summoner set because I think a dragon 'lord' would be the best fit compared to the other classes, it would allow to control dragons cus they would be the summon, late game so it don't suck and late game items tend to look better, other then armor and a summoner weapon, an accessory, sword, bow, or other weapons along it could make sense
If that makes any sense
dapper coral
right, "because it's cool" isn't a good enough reason
dapper coral
you can't have "because it's cool" as your only reason for wanting something in the game
if you feel that a summoner set is missing lategame, for whatever reason, then you can suggest an addition of one
ashen warren
It's not
dapper coral
what's your other reasoning then?
ashen warren
Dragon's fit a calamity theme better then any other mythical beast I can think of
dapper coral
okay, but why do dragons specifically fit calamity? that's the part that i don't understand
radiant meadow
theming is kind of a weak reasoning to throw on a weapon
dapper coral
that too
this also doesn't make sense to me
because I think a dragon 'lord' would be the best fit compared to the other classes
like, what do you mean 'fit?' are you trying to say you want to implement another class?
ashen warren
They are large, sometimes monstrous, in many books they cause a calamity, for example something as simple as a dragon flying can cause winds like a hurricane
No, summoner class, dragon lord I see would fit summoner better then other classes because they wouldn't be able to take it as far as summoner class can, and it would not feel as unique unless you were directly controlling dragons instead of welding some sort of dragon themed sword, magic or ranged weapon
sinful steeple
There's already 4 late game summoner weapons that summon dragons
And there's like 3 before that and a few dragon like weapons
dapper coral
They are large, sometimes monstrous, in many books they cause a calamity, for example something as simple as a dragon flying can cause winds like a hurricane
so basically, because dragons cause calamities, you think that there should be more dragons in the Calamity Mod
that feels a lot more like thematics than anything
and it's not a very strong connection
hearty yew
radiant meadow
Hannes Holmund