suggestions-discussion

[teal whale]

your other option is like belladonna

and even that isnt too great

[violet dagger]

belladonna for hardmode

[sand umbra]

just one of the many ways that an armor that tries to do it all fails in execution

[clever canopy]

There’s over 20 summons in pre-hm that is far from your only option

[cloud surge]

i dont think more overhead summons are need, to me this sounds like a "buff a sub-class" which subclass only playthroughs are kinda player-made challanges and the devs shouldnt worry too much about making a subclass viable

sg core isnt too bad as summoner, i did it without overhead summons at all

[sand umbra]

it either isn't good enough at each individual task to justify not having a particular focus or it literally outclasses everything else armor-wise at its tier because of the effect swarm

[glass sentinel]

i mean some overhead summons are godly

like the sun god one is good for maining one class and just having it there for more dmg

sirius tears apart bosses

and saros is actually amazing

[clever canopy]

I also see overhead minions as a kind of sub-class, sorta like a mobile sentry

[glass sentinel]

yah

[cloud surge]

but why do almost all the calam summoner armor setbonuses seem to have overhead summons in them

[violet dagger]

both sirius and saros got nerfed

[glass sentinel]

but for dog i went full sirius

they did?

damn

[teal whale]

again, i dont think more need to be added necessarily, but some of the ones right now need to be tweaked. i dont really see how buffing over head minions doesnt buff the class as a whole

[violet dagger]

yes

they're still viable tho

they're now just a bit more balanced

[teal whale]

also sirius and saros are good because of the way they work, which i think should be applied to more over head minions

thats kind of the whole point of the suggestion

[cloud surge]

i think it'd be cool if there were debuffing overhead minions though, so summoner has its own debuffing method

[clever canopy]

Tweaked in what way though? If you can summon them again just like Sirius then they lose part of what makes them unique

I could get on board with adding debuffs to overhead minions like shipmans suggests

[teal whale]

what kind of debuffs?

like ichor?

[cloud surge]

ichor, cursed flames

[clever canopy]

Those would have to be hardmode only

[cloud surge]

yeah

[teal whale]

ichor is pretty much the only useful debuff because of the way that armor and damaging debuffs work in terraria

[cloud surge]

but i would imagine they do almost no damage and just only apply usefull debuffs

kinda like golden gun

[teal whale]

though an overhead that can apply ichor would be cool

[clever canopy]

Something like frostburn for frost blossom staff, on fire! for cinder blossom etc.

[teal whale]

if a little broken, since its free ichor on all classes

[cloud surge]

oh yeah huh

[clever canopy]

There are many debuffs that reduce defense and DR in calamity

[glass sentinel]

everglade is amazing

both cursed flames and ichor

[teal whale]

yeah but those are exclusive to classless items, right?

[clever canopy]

Ichor would be a bit OP

[cloud surge]

maybe it only works if you have summoner armor on?

[glass sentinel]

ichor and cursed flames both reduce DR

[teal whale]

ok everglade is fine

[cloud surge]

melee and rogue have ichor flasks

[glass sentinel]

and cursed flames flask

[cloud surge]

ranged has ichor ammo

[teal whale]

cursed flames doesnt reduce dr

[cloud surge]

yes it does

[sinful steeple]

It does in Calamity

[teal whale]

oh

[clever canopy]

Nah, I mean debuffs like irradiated, Astral infection or plague. All of which reduce defense

[teal whale]

i didnt know that

yeah dr/armor reducing debuffs on over head minions would be cool, though some kind of restriction would have to be imposed on non summoner classes

[golden narwhal]

Ichor only decreases defense now iirc, byea

[glass sentinel]

wut

[clever canopy]

For Ichor and marked it should probably stick to the existing classless weapons for summoner

[glass sentinel]

NOOO

ichor no longer reduces DR

[teal whale]

was reducing dr a calamity thing?

[sinful steeple]

Yes

[teal whale]

i see

most damaging debuffs in terraria are useless though, since armor is flat, stuff like on fire only does 1 damage per second no matter what you're fighting

[sinful steeple]

Not really, the better ones can be really good

[glass sentinel]

in regards to shipman's sugg, well you can just run in a line and dash with tabi and you outrun rav

[sinful steeple]

Also on fire would be busted if it did 1 damage per tick because 60 dps henk

[teal whale]

per second

my bad

[cloud surge]

running and dashing doesnt seem to be working for me, although im not using tabi, ravager is still outrunning me by a lot and i dont think it would help

[sinful steeple]

Pretty sure that on fire does 4 dps but it's still bad

[clever canopy]

I think with ravager it can actually help to stay closer

He only does a big jump if you get too far iirc

[foggy plover]

ravager was literally given the new attack so you cant run in a straight line

it aims ahead of you

[clever canopy]

Check a recent nohit of it on YouTube

[cloud surge]

but its too fast and i cant do anything about it half the time

[sinful steeple]

Ship might be in Death mode, where the regular jump is very far

[cloud surge]

i said i searched for a video of that

and they filled an arena with water to slow him down

[sinful steeple]

I checked in Rev and it was like a third as fast as Death Ravager

[cloud surge]

staying close gets me killed faster

[clever canopy]

https://youtu.be/niXpfUwdJ4U

Try this strategy

[cloud surge]

hes not playing on death

death mode rav is unfairly fast

[clever canopy]

Well leviathan released a DAD mode nohit a couple hours ago that I just started watching, I’m sure the ravager part of that will help but I’m not there yet

[cloud surge]

i edited my sugg to say death mode ravager

thats the video i saw that used water to slow him down

[clever canopy]

Ah I see

[cobalt pewter]

Repost tiem

[violet dagger]

good respost

now i can easily get a free 6 treasure bags

[cobalt pewter]

Well I didn't specify the number of bags

So I'd leave it to them

Probably they'd give 3 at least

[violet dagger]

ye i was about to say to lower them

4 seems like a good amount but specifity :echdemon:

[cobalt pewter]

[cloud surge]

i completely agree with that sugg

yes

[cobalt pewter]

I've also been pressing on making legendaries drop from boss themselves lately

This sugg (which I've reposted twice as of just now)

And the one to buff legendaries with CD's trait

[violet dagger]

and then we can get legendary yharim's crystal

life fr why is yharim's crystal not a legendary it has the exact traits to be one

[cobalt pewter]

Might repost one more thing after someone posted smth

Anyway, since the star nerf, my slime rain, dog lines, Lihzahrd altar and celestial onion suggs got yeeted to another realm channel

Most of them qol

[novel belfry]

quick question: was my vanilla hm ore armor sugg delivered?

don't really have the time to look through suggestions-voting

nvm it hasn't gotten to 200

can i literally post the exact same sugg again if it hasn't been delivered?

[violet dagger]

Wait a week

[novel belfry]

it's been a week

[violet dagger]

Alr then u can repost it

[novel belfry]

https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/746568878095728738
heres that post in question

anyways i gotta get going, ||procrastination sucks||

[violet dagger]

It is now time to make a sugg

We posted at almost the same time

[cobalt pewter]

[serene fox]

I use drew's all the time for scal

I don't really care for tracers

[violet dagger]

I almost never see someone use them

[serene fox]

have you ever watched no-hits

[violet dagger]

Leviathan's nohits

[serene fox]

byeah extra flight time for scal is much better than extra run speed

since you're almost never on the floor

[fossil finch]

That extra fligth time is useless outside of nohits tbh
You aren't gonna fligth that much at the end

[violet dagger]

Ye for BR

Celestial are def better

[serene fox]

for BR yeah celestials are superior

although for scal i think it comes down to personal preference

[cobalt pewter]

Nothing beats gamer chair

[fossil finch]

Yeah personally i almost never ran out of fligth time with celestials

[serene fox]

even with soaring, draconic, drew's and community I still worry about flight time

[fossil finch]

[serene fox]

even with yharon lore

[violet dagger]

Bruh 25% less dmg

[fossil finch]

[cobalt pewter]

Just use soaring insignia

[fossil finch]

That's gonna get hyper nerfed

[heady storm]

Drew’s over Ctracers in nohitting without defiled honestly, but only that, so I’ll agree with this sugg.

[hollow shell]

Horizontal speed is better with Drews than Tracers, too

Much better, actually

[serene fox]

huh, never knew that

no wonder they felt so much better

[dapper coral]

ye it is

usually the preferred choice for scal because of it

unless you're doing defiled nohits

[unreal viper]

I gotta edit wiki then, frick moment

[hollow shell]

Hang on, this just in

I'm completely wrong

and the wing stats of Drews and Tracers are exactly identical aside from flight time

[heady storm]

Was about to say they are the same speed yeah.

[hollow shell]

Gonna fix the wiki

[serene fox]

[dapper coral]

? that's strange, i always remembered it as being that drews are always better other than running

[hollow shell]

Literally the same.

[heady storm]

In terms of flight time they are, which is the drawback.

[novel belfry]

or maybe make the celestial tracers come latter or drews wings come earlier

[unreal viper]

Eh.

[hollow shell]

Only place you could put Drews Wings is a Yharon1 drop

[novel belfry]

yeah

[hollow shell]

and then it'd be alongside Silva

[novel belfry]

oh

[unreal viper]

I suppose there is enough reason to use Drew’s.

[heady storm]

Elysian wings is like that thinking about it.

You get it post-provi and then make tracers post-DoG.

[unreal viper]

I would never use them cause I like iframes.

[novel belfry]

or maybe just fuse wings and tracers into one exo-tier wings that combine the effects of other wings as well

on an unrelated note, i reposted my HM ore armor sugg again

[violet dagger]

Anyways my sugg stands

[hollow shell]

Well IHS you just made me realize I need to add yet another denomination for how iframes work on the iframes page

[violet dagger]

The voting is where people will get to decide about it

[hollow shell]

5 items are able to affect the iframes of even CooldownSlot=1 hits
and only those 5, it seems.

Celestial Tracers is one of them

which is good

because otherwise they would have 0 effect on SCal's attacks

[violet dagger]

Celestial is better if you're getting hit

And drew's is better when your nohitting

[golden narwhal]

For the drew's thing, maybe change the heading to "give more of a reason" or smth like that, because it's currently implying there is no reason whatsoever

[left ice]

Oh, wow. That was longer than I realized.

[hollow shell]

The DR formula doesn't affect defense

[golden narwhal]

And ... just realised the sugg says drew's is useless

[violet dagger]

Me being dumb

Or should I just delete

Not my best sugg tbh

[hollow shell]

You can keep it if you change it to 'more of a reason'

Celestial is indeed better in every aspect except flight time

[left ice]

I didn't say DR reduction affected defense, but it still does affect damage taken.

[golden narwhal]

I'd be up for a bonus like every other wing

[hollow shell]

wait, where are you getting x0.6 from?

[left ice]

Ah, wait, I see what you mean. Changed to make it more accurate.

[hollow shell]

where are you getting x0.43 from?

[left ice]

0.8 (solar) * 0.75 (frozen turtle) - .17 (scarf)

[hollow shell]

Oh that's DR

You should mention that

[left ice]

I did. I changed the title.

That being said, I guess I'll make the .6 clear it is from damage reduction from those items.

[hollow shell]

Yeah, that's what I mean

You coulda just edited it gseal but w/e

[violet dagger]

Crap it posted I instead of edit

[hollow shell]

lol

[violet dagger]

Phone being weird

[left ice]

Ah, whoops. I made an error with my math. ;-;

[golden narwhal]

Mobile moments

[violet dagger]

Anyways I'll just leave the new sugg

Delete old one

[hollow shell]

Also Itchy you're playing Death and taking Defiled critical hits into account, and you're frustrated that you're taking a lot of damage from Moon Lord's most damaging attack?

[golden narwhal]

Additional reason could be for consistency, since every other wing afaik has a bonus

[violet dagger]

Alright

[golden narwhal]

[violet dagger]

Anyways since they're viable for scal I changed it just to br

Since they aren't viable there

[left ice]

No, I was just using that as an example to cite how damage reduction is necessarry, but the nerf to DR is a bit harsh.

[hollow shell]

The actual equal comparison is 90 damage vs 120 damage

which is, something, yes
but it doesn't completely throw you in the garbage

[left ice]

Yeah, that was just to put it into perspective for anyone who played on death/defiled.

[hollow shell]

yeah but like it's a manipulative comparison

[left ice]

True, I guess.

[hollow shell]

The damage value for a Death Core-open Defiled-crit without the DR nerf formula will probably be somewhere around 200

which is what should be compared to the 258 damage you list

[radiant meadow]

I don't see why Drew's Wings needs a buff.

[left ice]

Yeah, that's a fair point. I'll mention that.

[hollow shell]

alright

[violet dagger]

For boss rush

[radiant meadow]

both wings are balanced to scal

drew's wings already give like a good deal amount of more flight than tracers

[violet dagger]

But for boss rush

[radiant meadow]

which is the trade off for no sprinting and no extra i frames

[violet dagger]

You need mobility

[radiant meadow]

then use tracers

[violet dagger]

Making them both viable would work

[radiant meadow]

if you buff drew's wings, they'll just invalidate tracers

[violet dagger]

I might just forget the sugg as a whole then and delete it

[left ice]

Actually, I can't really reliably compare the two since I don't know whether the damage reduction multiplier from warding accessories would be applied as a multiplicate manner (like solar and frozen shell) or in an additive manner (like scarf). That makes a difference of like 20 damage.

[hollow shell]

I'll check

It adds to the DR stat

[radiant meadow]

warding accs boost the same stat that scarf does

[left ice]

Alright, then yeah, that makes the damage go down to 159.

[hollow shell]

From 258?

[left ice]

I'll double check, since that doesn't seem accurate, though.

Yeah, that seems to be accurate. With the vanilla DR formula, DR would be at 63%.

[hollow shell]

Post-reduction looks to be about 38.7%

m

[left ice]

(Frozen turtle (.75) * solar (.8) + scarf (.17) + warding accessories (.06) brings it to .37 in vanilla

[hollow shell]

Oh wait hang on

god why the fuck do we have so many damage modifiers whose idea was this

[left ice]

I guess I should also make it clear that I don't want DR reduction to be eleminated entirely, as that would also be bad. If it was pure vanilla DR formula, we could tank the ML hits for like 1 damage lmfao.

[hollow shell]

No I think that's decently clear

Your top line says "more lenient"

[sand umbra]

you say that, Itchy, but a lot of the more effective DR is also beaten to death directly

[left ice]

That's good, since I can't edit it to be longer anyway. I hit the text limit. LOL

What do you mean, Thomas?

[sand umbra]

shell beetles 15% each ---> 10% each
scarf 17% ---> 10%
frozen turtle (which already wasn't viable imo) 25% ---> 15%
most other DR effects are Calamity's and do not do nearly as much as anything out of vanilla to the point of, on top of the DR scaling nerf, becoming virtually pointless

reminder that 10% DR stated by an accessory in this context does not actually give you the promised 10% DR

[left ice]

Oh, right. I forgot to factor that in. Ty for the reminder.

[sand umbra]

and larger values don't give you that promise either unless they're calculated separately

defensive playstyle is beaten to fucking death by Cal

[left ice]

That'll bring the Calamity damage from ML with all difficulty up to like 400 per hit lmfao.

[sand umbra]

(on the opposite side of the same coin, glass cannon is a lifestyle and Calamity encourages it way too damn hard only to then shoot that in the foot as well)

[hollow shell]

my rage is increasing
I am tempted to develop a computer program™️ to calculate this shit for us for all future occurrences so we don't gotta do all this mental strain

[left ice]

Yeah, Calamity basically encourages the crap out of dodging and stomps defense into ground in the process.

[sand umbra]

I should suggest that the number of extraneous mechanics be

[left ice]

Oh, forgot solar had buffed defense, too.

[sand umbra]

toned down

[left ice]

AAAAAa

[sand umbra]

particularly in terms of balancing

[hollow shell]

I am suddenly more on board with your suggestion to replace all additive DR with multiplicative DR and get rid of the scaling formula

Purely because it'd make calculations easier

[sand umbra]

startin' to see why I made that sugg now, are we

[left ice]

Lmao. When the dev agrees with the suggestion not because of reason, but because of "wtf is this math".

[sand umbra]

I told you, the current system is entirely too complicated especially alongside the other "balancing-related" mechanics Calamity employs

you should not need a fucking PhD in theoretical physics to understand how damage reduction in a Terraria mod works lmao

[left ice]

I'll have you know I'm currently in the process of calculating the second derivative of a geometric equation to optimize my slime farming tyvm.

[radiant meadow]

you could check the stat meter

which accounts for the scaling when displaying dr

[sand umbra]

except there are also DR bonuses calculated separately

[hollow shell]

What about multiplicative DR

[sand umbra]

and a fucking ton of them at that

[radiant meadow]

I don't think the stat meter displays that because it's separate

and done differently in code

[hollow shell]

Yeah it would probably be impossible to display as a stat on the meter

Idea:
Add a "stat" to the meter that says "100 damage gets reduced to: " and put a number there that does all the exact defense and DR and SepDR calculations that would happen to the player on hit

[radiant meadow]

that wouldn't help if you have over 200 defense

[hollow shell]

Okay true

[sand umbra]

yeah defense is also a factor

[hollow shell]

ig 1000 damage then cuz I don't think defense can go that high

[radiant meadow]

you get like 600 defense or something if you want to build chonky

might be 700 idk

but you can't get 2000 defense without other mods, no

[sand umbra]

except it's not a flat half, unless Rev defense changed for the 3rd time

defense ratio changes by difficulty~

[violet dagger]

2000 defense is like past soul of eternity level

[radiant meadow]

rev doesn't change defense

anymore(?)

[sand umbra]

then it's 75% effectiveness, same as Expert

[unreal viper]

600 def endgame,ye

450 less damage

[radiant meadow]

I think it changed it like 2 or 3 years ago

[hollow shell]

tbh if you're looking at the "1000 damage gets reduced to" stat and see the number 1 cuz you have so much defensive power
then, I don't think you need to worry about calculations anymore, you've succeeded.

[sand umbra]

this is a vanilla thing and I hate it and I'll get into why I hate it at a later date once I've rebalanced the entire game around it

[unreal viper]

Scal does 862 damage btw.

[sand umbra]

yeah uh

if you can reduce 1k damage to 1 damage

[radiant meadow]

:)

[sand umbra]

I don't think you need to care about defensive bonuses at that point

you've basically already won the game

[violet dagger]

1 dmg isn't enough, I need 0.00001 dmg

[unreal viper]

Spirit band go brrr.

[radiant meadow]

isn't that the thorium acc that caps a hit's damage at 150 (with a cooldown)?

[hollow shell]

125 damage

cooldown's 10 seconds

[radiant meadow]

close enough

[unreal viper]

Yes.

Very good in calam, not so much on thorium tbh.

[hollow shell]

Calculated before defense and DR

damn

Ah it was once 150 but was buffed to 125 very recently

[rapid pivot]

Here's an idea; giving Tactical Plague Engine projectiles the ability to go through walls, if that's possible.

[radiant meadow]

that's possible, in most scenarios

[rapid pivot]

Because, ironically, the TPE, given the part of the game you get it at, is actually worse compared to the Black Hawk Remote (at the point you get it.)

Because it targets and shoots through walls. :P First boss you're gonna be fighting after you get the TPE? Providence.

Who.. is most likely gonna be fought in Hell. With a arena that has a solid tile ceiling, which blocks almost all the bullets.

[hollow shell]

Black Hawk goes through walls?
I thought there was a suggestion asking for that to become the case because it wasn't

unless that sugg was implemented

[radiant meadow]

there are a lot of people do fight her in the hallow

black hawk can shoot through walls now

[rapid pivot]

Eh, yeah, but not everybody is going to have a strip of hallow long enough for that.

[radiant meadow]

that happened after I nerfed it

[hollow shell]

aight cool

[cobalt pewter]

imo fighting her in hell is easier if you want to stay a desirable distance from her

Since often times you can mistake her beam attack with either cocoon attacks

[rapid pivot]

Either way, let's say that roughly half of the people fighting her are gonna do it in hell.

[cobalt pewter]

Or more likely, the cocoon flames

[left ice]

Okay, so having updated the math yet again, it gets changed to 282 VS 238 in Calamity VS Vanilla. Which is actually a lot closer than I thought, but I guess the nerfs to shell/scarf even it out a lot.

[rapid pivot]

I'll post it then.

[hollow shell]

alright

and, alright.

[sand umbra]

and this is the part where I say "there's too much fucking math to be had here"

[left ice]

For real. I'm tired of doing math. If it's wrong, somebody else do the math now. I'm going back to my game. >.>

[sand umbra]

understandable

enjoy your game

you have done well enough for tonight

[cobalt pewter]

Math bad

[sand umbra]

...so out of curiosity I looked at my DR sugg to see how it fared

[hollow shell]

Got pretty close

[sand umbra]

literally 3 stars off from the req at the time it was sent

[hollow shell]

mhm

[left ice]

It'll be interesting to see if any of the suggestions from the past couple weeks that didn't make it in get accepted and added now.

[hollow shell]

Three schmucks, go star this so I can deliver it and argue about it in the dev server
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/738082562513174539

Thanks

[sand umbra]

nearly instantly
170 achieved

[radiant meadow]

bruh, advertising

[sand umbra]

thank you Rover, very cool

[left ice]

Honestly, I'd be fine with that. It might be a bit too powerful for a pure tank build, but it also simplifies the process so much that it's a worthy sacrifice.

[sand umbra]

it'd be an overall buff to defensive loadouts, yes
but given how much Cal beats them to death already I would argue it's justifiable anyway

[left ice]

Yeah, you could probably get up to like 70% damage reduction, doing a rough guestimate.

[cobalt pewter]

tfw I already starred it

But it's still at 170

We need 30 more schmucks

[sand umbra]

wrong

[cobalt pewter]

Oh wait

[sand umbra]

that sugg predates the 240 raise

[cobalt pewter]

Is this the old one?

[sand umbra]

[cobalt pewter]

OH E P I C

[violet dagger]

[cobalt pewter]

@hazy bluff you'll need kill time stats if your sugg is about buffing / nerfing stuff

[hazy bluff]

hmm ok

it was approved before

[cobalt pewter]

Hmm, when was it?

[hazy bluff]

08/12/2020

[heady storm]

The Contaminated Bile took about 2 minutes longer to kill the Eye of Cthulhu than the Seafoam Bomb, which has a similar effect to it.
They did provide a kill time stat?

[violet dagger]

It's not an exact kill time

But it's sufficient

[heady storm]

Ah, more precise info?

[violet dagger]

But it's sufficient

[heady storm]

Thonk.

[cobalt pewter]

I guess that's good enough

[violet dagger]

The abyssal treaure one is good

Formatting tho

[cobalt pewter]

My brain is in shambles after my cat digs her nails neep into my back

While bathing her

[heady storm]

Ye, I'll ping for that.

@hazy radish your suggestion is fine, besides the formatting if you can adjust it appropriately please.

(Thanks Demik.)

[dapper coral]

(totally not sniping you or anything)

[heady storm]

@dapper coral They did the do.

[dapper coral]

ah, coolio

[violet dagger]

When u finally realize why the reactions are removed

It took me a good few weeks to figure it out

[heady storm]

Only staff reactions stay in #suggestions-posting, yeah.

Even if yours did stay, we could manually remove it.

[fringe sky]

feel free to tag me with feedback about this idea b/c it's 2:30am for me and i'm about to sleep

[cobalt pewter]

@fringe sky line breaks

[fringe sky]

done

ok now i'm going to sleep

[cobalt pewter]

Epic

[hazy radish]

I feel like discussing my idea might be a good idea so feel free to tag me if you want to talk about it.

[hollow shell]

@scenic tiger ?

[heady storm]

Was just about to ping.

[hollow shell]

This isn't a suggestion

[heady storm]

Not a sugg yeah.

[fringe sky]

hope the idea fits calamity

[hollow shell]

What I'm wondering is

why not just ask that all summoner equipment get buffed

why increase damage as time passes?

If the concern is that summoner is underpowered

[fringe sky]

i mean yes that is the straightforward route on a technical level but I feel that this sort of mechanic would give the class something a bit special and dynamic to potentially focus on.

and since it's a pretty broad suggestion, it could be tinkered a bit so it feels natural / act as a fun addition

[hollow shell]

Okay

[rapid pivot]

@fringe sky As someone who is playing Summoner on DM, I can say this; the Summoner does indeed take longer to kill bosses, but on the other hand, the Summoner TO AN EXTENT does not have to aim. This allows them to focus more on dodging, hence their low defense.

In addition, I'm not sure how.. telling, Leviathan's video is. He is very, very good, but as he is doing a special challenge run, he may well be using summons that trade raw offensive firepower for, say.. range. Or some other trait that makes them more practical for nohits on defiled.

(You can see this in the Mech fights, for instance, where he uses the Shellfish Staff - while it arguably doesn't have as much DPS as other summoner weapons, it's incredibly good because it can never miss, making it the most consistent weapon at that point in the game.)

In addition, it's worth considering that Summoner weapons in general are.. a bit more varied than most other classes, aside from maybe Mage, in my opinion.

[sand umbra]

there are more reasons than just that as to why Shellfish Staff is good

[cobalt pewter]

It's not that shellfish doesn't miss that makes it strong (well, it's one of the better points), but

Shellfish damages enemies with a debuff

[sand umbra]

^

Shellfish are unique in that they don't actually use normal damage ticks

they use a debuff to do their work

[cobalt pewter]

Kinda like Stardust Cells, but better

[sand umbra]

this means they're not affected by damage bonuses but they're also not affected

by enemy defense or DR

so you can do disgusting shit like completely skipping Prime's arms and killing him in like a minute by just letting a full group of shellfish sit on his head

[rapid pivot]

That too. :P

Either way they're probably the best anti-boss weapon in the game at that point.

[frail mantle]

summoner isn't bad, just immensely situationally good

[cobalt pewter]

Also no

Summoner is straight up good

In calam

[sand umbra]

the big thing is that summoner's main niche is and always has been crowd control

[rapid pivot]

Summoner does, however, have moments where it just sorta.. suffers.

(mostly earlygame)

[cobalt pewter]

If shellfish isn't bad enough, imagine Cold Divinity lasting the entirety of HM

[sand umbra]

Cold Divinity is even more of a meme

[rapid pivot]

maybe summoner needs a bit of a buff early-game?

like, uh

nothing crazy, just something to make it less.. agonizing

[versed grotto]

Summoner just spikes the second it gets fearmonger

Literally unkillable

Everything before is painful

[sand umbra]

that early-game buff already exists

it's called Squirrel Squire Staff and Wulfrum Controller and Stormjaw Staff and Frost Blossom Staff and Sun Spirit Staff and--

[cobalt pewter]

Summoner just spikes the second they got cold divinity

[rapid pivot]

The Wulfrum Controller is.. finicky.

but i see your point

[sand umbra]

the only finicky summon here is interlopers which tend to just sort of miss 90% of the time

[cobalt pewter]

Cold Divinity does the funni road roller on top of everything until ML

[sand umbra]

but who needs accuracy when you have moonwalking god squirrels

[cobalt pewter]

Fargo watching the chat:

[versed grotto]

Tbh though anyone who plays summoner only is asking for it

It shouldnt need to be hybrid to be enjoyable but it is

[rapid pivot]

it utterly memes OOA tho

uh

it doesn't need to be hybrid

[versed grotto]

It doesnt

If you dont wanna have fun

[sand umbra]

OOA is literally designed around summoners

and is the best example of how summoner shines: as a crowd control class

[cobalt pewter]

See: mfn Valhalla set

[sand umbra]

this is and always has been summoner's niche, lower god power against bosses in exchange for allowing you to literally not care about normal enemies

because normal enemies, unlike later bosses in particular, are not intelligent enough to outsmart your summons and will perish

[rapid pivot]

cough cough fishron

[sand umbra]

Fishron just plain outplays summoner yeah

to the point where someone literally made their donor item a summon wep that is specifically designed to kill the Duke

[rapid pivot]

which one is that

[sand umbra]

[[Resurrection Butterfly]]

[red storm]

https://calamitymod.gamepedia.com/Resurrection_Butterfly

[rapid pivot]

... oh. yes. that thing.

[sand umbra]

butterflies.

[rapid pivot]

That was made to be an anti-fishron weapon?

[sand umbra]

yes

the entire point of butterflies is that they are specifically designed to beat the shit out of Duke Fishron

[cobalt pewter]

Imagine not using CD vs Duke

[sand umbra]

to the point that they even do increased damage to him specifically

[rapid pivot]

i remember before those were a thing

i had to use the igneous exaltation to kill that fucking fish

[tawny garden]

The two butterflies do 135% damage to Duke Fishron
mmLol

[sand umbra]

Fishron is just painful as summoner otherwise, primarily because of phase 3

[versed grotto]

If I die to a non essential boss once I skip it and fight it 10 bosses later

[sand umbra]

FIshron phase 3 as summoner in particular regardless of what mods or difficulty you play with takes 10,000 years with anything that isn't butterflies even on a glass cannon loadout

[versed grotto]

That was a lot of edits

[sand umbra]

shut

it's half past 3 in the morning for me

[versed grotto]

EST gang

[cobalt pewter]

@terse heath I wonder, have you played the referred game?

Or at least watched it?

[heady storm]

Gonna be honest, that case scenario provided is literally a one in a million.

[terse heath]

no

[cobalt pewter]

I don't really know the game myself (don't booli), but as chetto said

The name is never disclosed anywhere in game

[terse heath]

but i think sam is a pretty common name

[heady storm]

That doesn't necessarily mean people will normally name their characters that.

[cobalt pewter]

It's a cool one time discovery thing imo, but no sane people wanting to have an actual gameplay will use "Sam" or "Samuel Rodrigues" (yes there's a specific name as well) just for Murasama

Even then

[terse heath]

im sure its more common than you think

[cobalt pewter]

Someone naming all of their chars to themselves is kinda odd

[terse heath]

idk though, just a nitpick

[heady storm]

Honestly I'm gonna ask you at least take the time to look into what it's an easter egg of.

[cobalt pewter]

Yeah, that's the very first thing I've asked

[terse heath]

i dont see how that's relevant

[heady storm]

How so?

You'll need reasoning for that too if you really think so.

[terse heath]

my reasoning was that sam isn't just based off MGRR
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_(given_name)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_(surname)

it's a common name

[heady storm]

Here's the thing though; it's an intended reference to the character and his weapon.

[terse heath]

so you don't even need to know the referred game to get the weapon starting

[heady storm]

And as I brought up earlier, who in the world would naturally name their character Sam?

[tawny garden]

(some people would, they're got a point)

[terse heath]

it should be clear if you have played the base game

but it also works the other way i think

[heady storm]

It literally looks like a one in a million to me.

[tawny garden]

but it's not as common as you think, qe

[terse heath]

i think it just de-strengthens the connection though if you don't need to know what it is a reference to to use it

[gray nebula]

not super common but not something that can't happen

[terse heath]

compare to something like lul

you need to get totalbiscuit down to the point to get it to work

[heady storm]

Alternatively, you could clarify in your suggestion to only remove "Sam" as a valid user ID.

"Samuel Rodrigues" sounds even more far beyond to me.

[terse heath]

i cant give an opinion of what mgrr players think but this is what i think so idk

[past rover]

just make it jetstream sam lol

[clever canopy]

Isn’t the point of Easter eggs that players can just stumble on them unintentionally?

If you make the name incredibly specific then it’s no longer an Easter egg, it’s a cheat code

[untold cargo]

There are so many possibilities of names

Most likely Sam won’t be one of them

And many people won’t know about the hell lab

[clever canopy]

@novel belfry you don’t really provide a good reason for your suggestion. “Why not?” Doesn’t really cut it. Think specifically about why there needs to be extra summon/rogue options, is there a lack of options existing already?

[untold cargo]

Well there really should

At least for rogue

Rogue pre boss hm have 1 armour choice I think

The Titan heart on

[clever canopy]

They also got forbidden

[untold cargo]

But that focussed around stealth

[tawny garden]

they're making a consistency argument

[untold cargo]

That’s dual class

[clever canopy]

Consistency argument doesn’t really make sense when even in vanilla it’s not consistent (no helmet for summoners)

[untold cargo]

Titan heart reduces attack speed I think and that lowers dps

[tawny garden]

well, they're asking for that summoner helmet

[clever canopy]

Yeah but they don’t give a good enough reason why that summoner helmet should exist

[heady storm]

Consistency reasoning is fine as long as they got something else to tag along too.

Honestly I think it’s fine.

[clever canopy]

Consistency has always been an added extra for me, something you can say at the end of your suggestion after you give the real reason, just to help persuade the reader that little bit more

[heady storm]

They provided 2 examples and then the inconsistency, so I really don’t think there’s anything wrong with it, unless I’m missing something completely over my head.

[clever canopy]

I just don’t see consistency as a reason that can stand on its own

[heady storm]

Oh actually, I see what they could add.

@novel belfry you can also add how summoners/rogues would be able to receive the set bonuses of those armors, instead of being limited to stuff like spider and titan heart armor.

It’d pretty much be one of the main purposes of your suggestion after all.

[clever canopy]

When it comes to the two examples 1) this is a donor item intended to fit in with the hybrid options given by forbidden/frost armor in vanilla. 2) the shroomite helm doesn’t give a buff to a different class than it does in vanilla, it just gives the option to a subclass that doesn’t really exist in vanilla (isn’t there only one flamethrower?)

[heady storm]

About that 2nd part, Calamity adds more flamethrowers.

[clever canopy]

That’s what I mean

[heady storm]

Then how does vanilla come into the equation?

[clever canopy]

That subclass doesn’t exist in vanilla so there’s no need for a helmet for it. In calamity it does exist so they add the helmet

[heady storm]

I think I get where you’re heading at with that then, so essentially it’s not a helmet that changes your class, but a helmet that changes your subclass.

It can’t relate to Overdone’s sugg since he wants different helmets to change classes entirely.

[clever canopy]

Basically yeah, the reasons these helmets exist is not the same reason that overdone gives

[heady storm]

Fair enough, @novel belfry you can remove that example in this case since it technically wouldn’t support your arguement.

[clever canopy]

Also want to say that aside from those flaws in the suggestion I also disagree with it. If there were ore armors for summoner/rogue there’d be way too many options and it’d just add bloat

[heady storm]

You don’t have to star their suggestion if you don’t agree with it, just a friendly reminder.

[clever canopy]

Summoners can use spider or forbidden to kill cryogen, then deadlus to kill a mech, then there’s the tavernkeep armors, which gives summoners many options already for that part of the game

Rogue has less options, but I don’t see that as a reason to add ore helmets for rogue, more as a reason to add more rogue specific armors

[cedar rain]

Why can't I play the Calamity Boss music on Spotify? Ping me if you answer

[ashen warren]

...why are you asking this here

[cedar rain]

Where else?

At #wiki-lookup?

[tawny garden]

cause Re-Logic refused to allow DM DOKURO to upload it there

[cedar rain]

I just like the music. And don't wsnt to get yt premium ogflinr

Offline *

Premuim to listen it offline*

[ashen warren]

Where else?
literally read the channel desc

byeah ig you could import the songs yourself

[cedar rain]

I just joined here like 20 min ago to judt adk the wuedtien

Questien

So i am not an og in this discord

[tawny garden]

well, this channel is about suggestions

[cedar rain]

Discustiond

I'm typibg with one hand and tryjbg tl type fast

Trying

[tawny garden]

suggesting that isn't allowed, and this conversation doesn't pertain to any of the existing suggestions

#general-talk

[cedar rain]

Crap

Well

Um

Sorru then

[fringe sky]

sometimes I wonder if there should be a limit to the ability to chat until people read through the rules with a few minute timer before chatting

[ashen warren]

well there is one

unless you have a verified phone number

[clever canopy]

People will just scroll through the rules without reading them or wait for the timer to be up

[tawny garden]

wait really? if you have a verified phone number you skip that timer?

that's messed up

[ashen warren]

ye

i mean not like it forces people to read them

[violet dagger]

I wish that after the 10 minutes you could send a quiz to make sure they read the rules

[wooden wedge]

@terse heath even if player's name themselves Sam, why remove the Easter egg? It's not even game breaking because you have to kill yharon for the sword to work

[violet dagger]

its just a neat MGR reference

[hollow shell]

That's not true, Sand

[wooden wedge]

Did it change?

[hollow shell]

Being named Sam bypasses the Yharon req
That's the point of the easter egg name, its always been like that

[wooden wedge]

I just read the wiki and somehow missed that

I somehow missed the whole trivia section

[hollow shell]

What did you think the name did?

[wooden wedge]

Just gave you murasama?

[hollow shell]

naw

[robust lava]

I feel like for the Murasama + Sam sugg to have any real substance, there needs to have been an actual case of someone having a bad impression of the mod from accidentally using the sword, otherwise it’s all just speculation for a situation that has never happened (and is unlikely to happen imo)

Plus, if someone does manage to get the stars to align and does start to use it when called Sam and see how broken it is, I expect that nearly anyone would then either ask in the discord, or look up the weapon on the wiki, and they’ll find out the reason

[gaunt quest]

It's also kinda reference to another game where the guy who had it is named San lol

The boss so make a sense why the Easter egg is sam

[hollow shell]

Yes.. it is.
(Sam* tho)

[gaunt quest]

Yah I meant Sam I just woke up lol so miss click oof

[hollow shell]

Point is he actually has a longer title
"Jetstream Sam"
which is another name that works for Murasama and could be made into the only name that works for it

[gaunt quest]

Yah true

[hollow shell]

ah nvm, the other name that works is "Samuel Rodrigues", his 'real' name

still much more specific, unlikely for accidental usage

[gaunt quest]

Yah that one would probably be the one that would make the most sense to have because it's an actual name and not a nickname (or both work but maybe one is the best less chance of accidently picking it)

[distant gyro]

i think contrary to the sug

there should be more legible names because he doesn't get called for only one or two names does he

"Jetstream Sam" should be an option yes

[gaunt quest]

Well that's why I said or both but yah having Sam as an option is much easier to pick, because Sam is not a rare name lol

[tawny garden]

((hm, Murasama))

[distant gyro]

Mura "Sam" A.

[ashen warren]

that's an epic way to remember which one is which

thank you

[tawny garden]

Should Leaper have kill times?

ah, I'm dumb, he does mention that it takes 2 minutes longer to kill

which is the bare minimum

[umbral mulch]

Question

Can I shove text documents in posting

[tawny garden]

ye, but using google docs is preferred

[umbral mulch]

k

[novel belfry]

alright who pinged me 3 times

[west jackal]

I know you can’t suggest recipes with shadowspec bars in them but what about calamitous essence

[dapper coral]

i'm fairly certain that that would come under the same rule, but i'm not sure

since it is the same tier

[west jackal]

I was thinking about like a furniture set that is based on how calamitas looks

Or shadow like

Because a lot of the bosses post ml have their own furniture set

[robust lava]

When dev tier has to shift cause SCal is no longer the last boss, I'm guessing Shadowspec will move as well, right?

[west jackal]

I have no clue

[robust lava]

So Calamitous Essence either shifts with Shadowspec, or it gets new crafting uses for SCal themed items, and potentially then a furniture set?

[west jackal]

Ohhh

Maybe

[robust lava]

That's obviously not anything we know for sure about yet though

[west jackal]

I’m just saying that dog has cosmilite furniture, Providence/profaned guardians has profaned furniture and dragonfolly/yharon has Silva furniture

[dapper coral]

shadowspec will definitely shift to post-yharim whenever that happens

[west jackal]

That’ll be weird

[dapper coral]

so we'll see

[sleek turret]

living shards furniture when

[dapper coral]

but you can suggest a furniture set for scal

and leave it up to the devs to see what materials it would be made out of

[robust lava]

But we don't know if Calamitous Essence is moving as well, or is it staying with SCal?

[dapper coral]

we'll see i suppose

[west jackal]

It would probably stay

[dapper coral]

you can still suggest the furniture though

[patent mural]

Ashen/ancient furniture

[west jackal]

That is based on brimstone elemental not Scal

[hollow shell]

It hasn't quite been a week yet

you're about 18 hours off

[radiant meadow]

it's close enough, there's a high chance it'll spend over 18 hours in posting anyways

[hollow shell]

I suppose so

[west jackal]

Wait are you talking about me

[hollow shell]

Nah, Cy

[west jackal]

Ok

[hollow shell]

(cuz they posted that sugg a week ago and are reposting it as per policy, (almost) 1 week later)

@ashen warren https://calamitymod.gamepedia.com/Draedon's_Heart

[dapper coral]

@ashen warren no references and add reasoning

also no meme suggs, if this counts?

[ashen warren]

K

[violet dagger]

[hollow idol]

[violet dagger]

it really does have to be this way

[hollow idol]

@karmic iron porting journey's end content isnt allowed

[karmic iron]

ah ok

[violet dagger]

also u need a reason

[hollow idol]

and theres no reasoning anyways

dammit

[tawny garden]

lol

[karmic iron]

There is. I worked my ass of for a zenith without noticing it was in the game until i had everything i needed;((

[tawny garden]

[violet dagger]

[hollow idol]

you can use like more than half of the materials for other better things

[tawny garden]

you have no reason in your sugg

anyway

[runic hound]

(Please just add it in secret, i aint gon tell nobody)

[karmic iron]

well that is my reason

[hollow idol]

Impossible to add secret items to one of the most played mods

[radiant meadow]

The suggestion is invalid regardless due to tmod's code of conduct

[karmic iron]

Ok, thank you Ben

victor

[runic hound]

thanks benny boi V

[hollow idol]

so yeah, you should probably delete the suggestion message

[karmic iron]

OK man

[sleek turret]

Thats an ❗ by the way.

[tawny garden]

citation:

[karmic iron]

Is it a calamity ToS or a Terarria ToS?

[violet dagger]

tmodloader ToS

[tawny garden]

@radiant meadow add a❗

or delete

[violet dagger]

just delete it

[tawny garden]

both work

[radiant meadow]

deleted it

[tawny garden]

[radiant meadow]

putting an exclamation is pointless

[violet dagger]

a ❗ does nothing since the whole idea is not allowed and can't be fixed

[radiant meadow]

It can't be salvaged into any idea

not one where you can just repost it altogether

[violet dagger]

just as a note aureus and ravager are already crazy enough to not need a shockwave

and for them it wouldn't do much

[cloud surge]

from what the ogres shockwave looks like i would much rather not have crabulon have one

[violet dagger]

it would be smaller

[sand umbra]

Ravager just is a shockwave

happens instantly, is hella fat, and deals lots of damage

[violet dagger]

[sand umbra]

the only difference is that there is no escape from Ravager

[tawny garden]

how about aureus?

[violet dagger]

aureus barely goes on you

he jumps up and then decides to teleport

[tawny garden]

I was always floating 420 km above him when I was fighting him

[violet dagger]

ye half of the time I dont even see him

[tawny garden]

and he couldn't do shit about that

[violet dagger]

maybe that could be my next sugg

[tawny garden]

don't sabotage yourself tho

[keen drum]

oh damn they lowered it back to 200

sick

[hollow shell]

Indeed.

[heady storm]

We did that indeed.

[opaque sierra]

Saw this, and while I did upvote this as it’s a cool suggestion, a case could be made that the evil biomes did not originate on this world, so they do not need to be involved with the HOTE. A hallow elemental probably could replace a sand elemental though, I will say that.

[keen drum]

just curious, btw

are all suggs approved or rejected?

[dapper coral]

no

[keen drum]

or only some

[hollow shell]

"all"?

No, of course its both
Otherwise what's the point

[dapper coral]

the ones that get sent to dev can be either approved, rejected, or given no definite opinion

[keen drum]

ah alr

rover i meant more as can they not be voted on

[hollow shell]

(I may have misinterpreted the question but tbf it was worded a bit weirdly)

[keen drum]

yeah fair lol

[hollow shell]

byeah all suggestions that meets the star req get sent to the devs and they vote on it

voting takes 2 days

(if you see a sugg that was delivered for longer than 2 days but has no approval or rejection indicator, that means the devs didn't have a strong opinion one way or the other)

[dapper coral]

btw rover, does that usually mean that the vote was split between thumbsup and thumbsdown, or that there was a large number of shrugs, or both?

[keen drum]

https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/742256201529557025

this is the one i was curious about is all

[hollow shell]

There's no shrug

Just split votes

[dapper coral]

gotchu

[hollow shell]

That sugg was indeed split

[keen drum]

okay cool

thank you for the info

[hollow shell]

np

[tawny garden]

(tip: you can see the date of delivery of a sugg (if it hasn't been approved/rejected/implemented yet ofc) by hovering over "(edited)")

[cobalt pewter]

Mobile:

[tawny garden]

lol

[mighty knot]

what do I do if I'm over the character limit?

[hollow shell]

uhh you reword and be more concise

Or if you really wanna make a fuckin essay you can put it in a google doc and change your sugg to a summary of its contents

[sand umbra]

like I did for my evil island sugg which breached 3k characters no matter how much I tried to condense it

speaking of which... /does a thing

[mighty knot]

oh no

that's a fair suggestion

[hollow shell]

Surprised you didn't mention making Dungeon Spirits drop more Ectoplasm as a solution
That would be my first option

[sand umbra]

oh yeah

...how did I not think of that when I originally wrote the sugg

[hollow shell]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[sand umbra]

ah well
better late than never

[mighty knot]

mine too
but I don't really see why ectoblood is a bad thing to have
also, having enemies drop an item which can be used to craft an item will give a much more consistent amount than just making them drop more of that item however many times as rarely

[hollow shell]

well cuz it's just

redundant

[mighty knot]

I guess it doesn't hurt

[hollow shell]

You already get a lot of Ectoplasm while farming
Having the constant stream is.. nice, I guess, but it's not like Ectoplasm's a rare commodity

[sand umbra]

there are many other ways to make Ectoplasm easier to farm which would all be more streamlined than...an additional item whose sole purpose is basically counting as a fraction of an Ectoplasm serving

[hollow shell]

Not to say Ectoplasm doesn't need the boosted amounts, I'm sure it does
It could just be done without needing a whole new item

[sand umbra]

if it was made easier to farm to begin with then Cal probably adds enough use for it for it to matter, yeah

[hollow shell]

I can check

[mighty knot]

one character over

kill me

[sand umbra]

oh it's used for Cores

[hollow shell]

Oh right Ecto is used to make all the Cores

yeah

[sand umbra]

that'll do it

Cores are used in fuckin' everything later on

[violet dagger]

petition to make cores used in ascendant spirit essence

[tawny garden]

how about using google docs?

[hollow shell]

This is fine

If it's under the character limit it doesn't need a doc

[tawny garden]

also why am I here at 5 AM

[hollow shell]

Don't know

[dapper coral]

also why am I here at 5 AM
you're not...not anymore at least

go to sleep

[violet dagger]

go to sleep or else

[unreal viper]

What if he just wakes up at 4?

[hollow shell]

imagine
anybody in this server having a good enough sleep schedule to wake up early

[sand umbra]

my sleep schedule is good

I go to bed at like 2-4 and wake up at like 10

that's a good 6-8 hours of sleep

healthy amount for adult

[cobalt pewter]

Man, I wanted to suggest smth related to Draedon weapons

Like

[dapper coral]

thomas that's not how sleeping works

[cobalt pewter]

How come Matter Modulator doesn't even remotely work if you don't bounce them off tiles first?

Like

What

But you know what

I might be too smol brain for this

Because apparently testers found that wave pounder is op...?

The fuck

[indigo fog]

it's meant to be used only for SW and ceaseless void

[cobalt pewter]

While I never got a tangible result from using wave pounder

[indigo fog]

which is why it's piss bad for polter

[cobalt pewter]

it's meant to be used only for SW and ceaseless void
W h y

[indigo fog]

it's not a singletarget weapon

[cobalt pewter]

Ah well

I tried it on t3 acid rain

Piss poor results

Also not worth lagging my fuckin laptop over it

[mighty knot]

it's probably not good suggestion practice to scour the mod for something to suggest. after all, if it wasn't something you'd normally notice, why bother?

[hollow shell]

@magic grove That's the point

[hollow shell]

^ in the Don'ts doc

[magic grove]

Oh well

This didn’t happen

[hollow shell]

If you think LC is too easy to beat at the start of Hardmode, you can suggest he be buffed

He is indeed supposed to be a huge challenge for earlyHM players

which is why overcoming it gives you the big rewards of Pillar items and such

[mighty knot]

LC is just kinda easy doe

[hollow idol]

reminder this isnt vanilla

[magic grove]

Granted you can actually beat the pillars

[mighty knot]

@hollow idol I am aware

[hollow shell]

Any player can beat pillars with enough time and perseverance

... as painful as it'd be

[mighty knot]

@magic grove the thing is, the pillars don't reset when you die

yeah that

[magic grove]

Well, have fun trying to beat the Pillars with pre-mech gear

Adios

[hollow shell]

indeed

[hollow idol]

take a star cell or two home and go from there

[ancient crow]

moonwalk sugg is certainly an interesting concept

[fringe sky]

gah i hope my reposted suggestions can reach 200 before they get pushed back into the void of old suggestions

if only my original one hit 200 and not 192 😦

[hazy radish]

hmm

[fringe sky]

I don't get the point of removing ectoblood, there's no real harm imo

[violet dagger]

if u have ecto blood for more ectoplasm, might aswell just make mobs drops from ectoplasm

[dapper coral]

it's not so much about the impact it makes having it, it's about the potential solutions without it

in this case, it would be less effort to simply make mobs drop more ectoplasm than add a whole new drop specifically to make ectoplasm

this is kinda what classifies as material bloat, to use thomas' words

[cobalt pewter]

This is also the case with Enchanted Metal

Material bloat can be annoying to new players, they need to memorize every single thing in order to have a relatively smooth pt

At least imo

[dapper coral]

this is also part of one of thomas' many spiels, regarding items like murky sludge, murky paste, beetle juice, etc. that have very few uses

[cobalt pewter]

Mmhm

[fringe sky]

They could be just given more uses though technically

[sand umbra]

Enchanted Metal is another one of these mats yes

and in fact Enchanted Metal is especially due for retirement

because the one (1) time it had a use other than mech summons?

that use was almost immediately removed

(Wyvern's Call used to take it)

and yes, some materials can be given more uses, and I won't deny that

but the thing is...Calamity has a ton of different materials that all fall under the blanket of "this is used for 1-3 things and then never used again"

particularly good examples are nearly every Jungle mat (there are 5 added by Cal, two of which are basically fancier vanilla mats), Ectoblood, Ench Metal, Murky Sludge, Ancient Bone Dust (which I've already covered), and Fetid/Bloodletting Essence

[hollow shell]

(well the whole point of Enchanted Metal was that it would have 1 usage only, makin the mech boss summons
Giving it a random weapon craft would impede its focus)

[sand umbra]

well yes
but nowadays better more suitable mats exist that also such plenty other purpose

[hollow shell]

(It could get some other usage in the future if it was similar to crafting the mech summons
Like, there was a suggestion about making WoF's emblems craftable/convertible using Enchanted Metal, and I thought that was a neat idea)

[sand umbra]

confession: the introduction of Draedon's Arsenal is the only reason I'm pushing for Ench Metal death (again? unsure if I sugg'd a thing on it in the past or not)

because now, Mysterious Circuitry and Dubious Plating exist
and those are much better suited towards an additional Mech summon recipe

(also wouldn't arbitrarily require Cryo like Ench Metal does )

[hollow shell]

but like
those materials aren't tier-locked

and the point of EnchMetal was so that you don't need to go out into the world to farm for mats like Souls and Rotten Chunks to attempt the boss

[sand umbra]

oh no, I have to actually play the game
how terrible of the devs to make me do such a thing :p

[hollow shell]

I didn't say it was a great point but that is their point

[sand umbra]

honestly you're pretty likely to have those mats in at least a somewhat appreciable quantity by the time you get into Hardmode
and you can always make it so the resulting summons are crafted at a Hardmode anvil to keep it locked to HM since those mats aren't normally tier-locked

[cobalt pewter]

(well the whole point of Enchanted Metal was that it would have 1 usage only, makin the mech boss summons
Giving it a random weapon craft would impede its focus)
I present to you, a solution that makes much more sense than Enchanted Metal
#suggestions-voting message

hopefully that's the right link

ah yes it is

Anyway

[violet dagger]

I always have like 10 of each spawner from grinding materials and getting natural drops

[hollow shell]

Like, as natural drops?

[cobalt pewter]

Having the mech bosses summon crafted similarly to the base recipe, but with Mysterious Circuitry instead of Lens/Chunk/Vert/Bones would make too much sense

[hollow shell]

cuz jesus christ they're like a 1/3000 chance

[cobalt pewter]

Too much it makes Enchanted Metal completely irrelevant

[violet dagger]

10 was exaggerating

But by the time I have to fight mechs I already have all the summons I'll need

Maybe it's reduced grinding

[sand umbra]

10 is. a lot

although it certainly isn't uncommon to come across a mech summon or two while you're farmin' out your early Hardmode gear

[tepid root]

yeah i personally like, never get a mech summon naturally in my pts

i could sometimes get one if im lucky, but thats it

[cobalt pewter]

I got some from time to time

Usually 5 tops on a pt

[hollow shell]

I usually only find 1 or maybe 2

[cobalt pewter]

Summary: remove Enchanted Metal, make Circuitry part of mech boss summon recipe, would make much more sense canonically than a random metal from the ice man with funny icicle pp

[sand umbra]

[edgy pagoda]

Has anyone suggested chaning the recipie for life crystals yet?

[hollow shell]

I think so but you can suggest it anyway

[edgy pagoda]

The current recipie is bs

[hollow shell]

Its mostly meant to allow you to 'catch up' on any crystals you missed by the time you reach post-Skele

Your main source of them should still be exploration

Same with the Life Fruit recipe

[sand umbra]

the current recipe is fine as it is tbf

Calamity already makes it extremely easy to skip over 90% of the pre-boss experience™️

[hollow shell]

which I am frankly fine with

actually after playing Spirit I'm less fine with it, I feel like Calamity could do more to flesh out pre-boss and make it more interesting rather than just try and 'skip to the good stuff'

but

I still approve of Starter Bag

[edgy pagoda]

i feel like the tinme you beat skeletron you'd have max health

[hollow shell]

Perhaps

You could suggest it get moved to like
Aerialite Bars instead of Bones
(or True Shadow / Blood Sample)

[edgy pagoda]

that would be better

[sand umbra]

I feel like Calamity could do more to flesh out pre-boss and make it more interesting rather than just try and 'skip to the good stuff'

it certainly could do more

Calamity as it is right now tends to just sorta

hand you everything pre-boss so you can get right into its bread and butter: beating up big bosses for big bucks

and I think in that sense that's what Calamity tends to flop in the exploration department
in some cases, it can be argued that it makes it...almost too easy to get everything you need, which removes most of the reason one would normally have to go exploring and see the world

[hollow shell]

Yes

[distant gyro]

hook balancing 2020

[hollow shell]

Yes I approve of unique hook ability

[edgy pagoda]

Hooks that attack

[sand umbra]

unique hook effects pog?

[edgy pagoda]

You fire a hook and it fires projectiles that home in and debuff an enemy

[hollow shell]

That, could be done

iunno how useful it'd be

but, it'd be neat

[edgy pagoda]

obviously not to a certain class

and obviously it debuffs for 10 minutes

and does 50000 damage

each projectile

and it fires 500000000000 projectiles each time you use it

balance

[mighty knot]

tbh I thought about suggesting a hook that can grapple onto enemies and let you dash through them or something

but that is a specific item suggestion, so

[cobalt pewter]

Taser is essentially an offensive hook or a half

[distant gyro]

i don't think the taser pulls the player

[cobalt pewter]

or a half

[distant gyro]

[cobalt pewter]

but Taser pulling the player can be interesting

and it'd still be better than most other Draedon weapons

[distant gyro]

a few days ago i found out tasers actually fire 2 hooks irl

[fringe sky]

i wonder if somewhere down the line, calamity can generate multiple worlds within one "hub world" so to speak, akin to dimensions in minecraft, to potentially expand on that exploration topic

[distant gyro]

no

we know what happens with generation from past experience that's not overwhelmingly simple

[fringe sky]

i didn't say it would be simple

just an idea for like, the extreme long term

[distant gyro]

so not terraria anymore

got it

[fringe sky]

i mean it's still terraria, but it could give more map room basically for added biomes / bosses / exploration and so forth

[cobalt pewter]

But anyway

What's the consensus with draedon weapons

[fringe sky]

thematic kind of like mc's nether or end dimensions

or any of the vast mc mods with added dimensions

[cobalt pewter]

Matter Modulator is literally unusable until you deliberately bounce it first

Even with that, the weapon doesn't deal jack

[fringe sky]

in the context of calamity, it could be something like yharin's domain, or possibly the homeworld of the astral meteor, or even the moon

maybe the size would be smaller comparatively to the main terraria world, but still it could be a cool idea

[tepid root]

why do that when you can just use subworlds

[distant gyro]

i was referring as in no matter the time a solution for terraria dimension system being well executed with no bugs is quite literally dead

[fringe sky]

wdym by subworlds @tepid root ?

[distant gyro]

enigma dimension thingy for example is essentially an event taking place in the same world

kinda like boss rush, an event

tl;dr for now we can assume dimension will never happen any time

[tepid root]

https://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/subworld-library.86283/

[fringe sky]

oh

yeah basically that

so technically if there is already a mod that allows for subworlds, couldn't calamity down the line use this mod as a prerequisite for new content?

if I'm reading that page right

[sand umbra]

yes, although I don't believe there's anything in Cal that'll really benefit from the use of subworlds

(or at least, nothing to my immediate knowledge)

[dapper coral]

just because it works doesn't mean it's not buggy as hell, as altix said

although i've heard that this one is pretty good, it would be a hell of a lot of effort too

[sand umbra]

subworld lib is good

but I point again to the fact that there isn't really much of anything in Calamity that would benefit enough from being shifted to a subworld to outweight the potential drawbacks

granted, this goes off of what we already possess as in-game stuff and what we know to be coming

[tepid root]

yeah

[fringe sky]

yeah things off the top of my head that could be cool to see is a subworld of the astral world, the moon (in relation to lunar events/moon lord), also potentially pre-made arenas

[robust lava]

A lot of people are often really opposed to downloading more mods for some reason

[sand umbra]

there may very well be things in the future which would draw this benefit...but right now there really aren't any

[fringe sky]

yeah i'm not saying now

i just mean in terms of like, within a couple years of development

[tepid root]

they dont want to download 1 (one) dependency yet they play with a ton of other content mods

[fringe sky]

hm, imagine an astral queen boss

combined with an astral war styled event

[dapper coral]

sorry, but is this relevant to anything atm?

like, maybe gentalk would be better

[fringe sky]

earlier suggestion surrounding pre-boss exploration

it might've trailed off since then