Every melee player be like
#suggestions-discussion
dark kernel
sleek turret
fun fact: you can have an luxor's gift machine gun if you are using terra flamebuster
dark kernel
But I also use melee lmao
weak field
More like luxor's gift earraping machine gun
sleek turret
yeah
Ranger Projectiles do 40% base damage of the weapon, but still like an emblem/damage boost accesory
tawny garden
hm, should the "buff Demonshade armor to be on par with Auric Tesla" suggs be a don't?
weak field
Feels like it should
tawny garden
these suggs never succeed and die
hollow idol
isnt demonshade vs auric on the doc already? or am I delusional
weak field
You are delusional, yeah
tawny garden
you're imagining a better reality then the actuality
hollow idol
damn, could have sworn I saw something about Demon vs Auric in there before
sleek turret
well i tested Terra Flamebuster without Luxor's Gift, and it deals less damage.
since Terra Flamebuster makes Luxor's Gift a machine gun.
also yes, its killing my ears with the ranged projectile from Luxor's Gift.
graceful stream
weak field
yay my suggestion got implemented...?
zenith hazel
you know, it's not exactly a good idea to be begging for stars either
loud cloak
i know, im just excited
wooden wedge
it's even pinned that you shouldn't
loud cloak
im not telling people to vote for it
wooden wedge
Please don't advertise your suggestion stating/complaining it does not have enough stars.
balmy jay
Going back to my previous suggestion on secondary projectiles which should also count as a stealth strike impact: the brimstone darts thrown by the brimblade stealth strike
loud cloak
hmm
radiant meadow
I went by precedent with frostcrush valari
untold cargo
It’s funny tho
weak field
Dog is edgy not cringe
cobalt pewter
Expected some backlash, and I ain't gon back down
sturdy geyser
dog is both
sleek turret
cobalt pewter
But yes
sleek turret
dog is both cringe and edgy.
cobalt pewter
He has a lot of cringe, and he doesn't seem to show much of his intelligence in-game
tawny garden
credgy
cobalt pewter
I haven't done more quick-run on other mods yet
weak field
It has like, a century-long history for its lore
sleek turret
"Nothing personal... kid"
"Try recovering from that"
"A GOD DOESN'T FEAR DEATH"
"Are you bad at dodging"
cobalt pewter
Actually
weak field
Very detailed and close to real world history
weak field
Yeah, since he's dying at that moment
cobalt pewter
But the rest, yes
tawny garden
the player is practically a god at that moment tho
sleek turret
The third one is not bad, the 1 & 2 are like edgy-cringy. The 4 are basically an insult to you.
cobalt pewter
Well DoG doesn't consider us a god at start
And yes, the very first line upon spawning is one of the better ones as well
Also I wanted to suggest smth related to DoG's actual gameplay once slowmode is ded
Laser walls are dumb easy for no reason now
But that's not what I want to suggest later
tawny garden
oh, removing these lines will also "solve" the wall of text problemo
sleek turret
yes they are, and are like a direct rip-off from EoL
but show actually how to dodge it.
untold cargo
They were touched a bit
jovial spire
surreal intelligence
god, he wishes
tawny garden
oh, you fixed that? 
violet dagger
according to draedon
tawny garden
(haven't fought DoG yet on 1.4.5.1)
violet dagger
doggo is big dumb space worm
jovial spire
DoG generally isn't supposed to be portrayed as smart, he's honestly kinda stupid
If he was smart, he'd realize just how much potential he has and be far stronger
tawny garden
hmm, I recall something about that being said in the lore item
jovial spire
instead of eating half of a nearly dead space god and then calling it a day
With occasional fire moth hunting
@cobalt pewter so him being portraid as smart would be weird since bit of his character relies on him being kinda stupid and hot-headed with an ego
cobalt pewter
Hmm, I guess that makes sense
Still, I guess reducing the cring would be neat at least
digital bear
sry
loud cloak
me too
loud cloak
the dialogue makes him unique
heady lichen
I'd say again just let him get serious in phase 2
I love the cringe lines
But showing that he has a bit of a personality behind that would be interesting
sturdy geyser
his personality is cringe then
heady lichen
Eh, idk. Just my opinion I guess. Just showing that he's not a complete dumbass in phase 2 below 50% hp would be cool
sleek turret
Again, SIS (specific item suggestions).
weak field
It's specific item suggestion
radiant meadow
what?
balmy jay
I don't know if melee/rogue items are allowed to have stealth strikes but
The rogue variant of the pwnagehammer should have a stealth strike that guarantees the phantom hammer
weak field
Eh, would love to see that
radiant meadow
the idea is that melee/rogue items don't have a stealth strike
that's not going to change
balmy jay
I figured as much
How about instead:
Making phantom hammer trigger on crit for both variants
Instead of being a flat 20%
radiant meadow
homing can't be triggered by a crit though
balmy jay
Oh, true
radiant meadow
the phantom hammer and homing go hand in hand
balmy jay
Good point
sand umbra
The rogue variant of the pwnagehammer should have a stealth strike that guarantees the phantom hammer
radiant meadow
I am not getting rid of the melee variant
so I made some adjustments
and then had to fix your stupid sound errors
:C
radiant meadow
probably because nobody plays multiplayer with EE
sand umbra
facts
radiant meadow
because Titania takes a shit
weak field
I only do multiplayer in terraria
sand umbra
I actually drafted a doc that like
changes up the concept of hybrid weps in Cal a bit
weak field
Might because that I'm desperate for social interactions though
sand umbra
e.g. rogue variants, regardless of whether or not their melee variants die, get stealth strikes
and additionally I extended the concept a little bit past just melee-rogue hybrids
also I actually did melee Pwnagehammer justice within the aforementioned doc instead of just killing it like I did for the original rework 
unfortunately, that doc will never see the light of suggestions chat, for the simple reason it's hella specific and being specific about reworks to things is illegal I think
in unrelated assertions...
tawny garden
now I wanna see how specific it is
sand umbra
I have no idea how much I'm going to perish for posting it in here so I'll DM it to you
tawny garden
aight
radiant meadow
simply rename them all and change a few of the projectiles and presto! because terra blade vanilla sprite is already remarkably different
sand umbra
is it? seems pretty similar to me
radiant meadow
they're both green, but if you look at them, they're pretty different iirc
at least
the current state of terra
sand umbra
the differences seem to be mainly stylistic
(which is inevitable given how...different Cal's sprites are from vanilla's sprites)
this feels like a good spot for a "you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about" meme but I don't have the resources or patience to make one
weak field
Not using calamity texture pack 
radiant meadow
the palette is different
sand umbra
it doesn't seem different much if at all
radiant meadow
the way the colors are used feels different to me as well
weak field
A bit more shading and deeper/vibrant-er colors
radiant meadow
the older terra sprites looked way closer to terra blade
sand umbra
there are immediately apparent stylistic differences, of course, but thematically they seem incredibly similar
both made with the finest blades of light and dark
both utilize a predominantly green blade with a gilded hilt
both are post-Plantera, requiring Living Shards
etc.
smoky wagon
if they had the same exact pallete it would be easy to confuse them tbf
or maybe not
radiant meadow
well, I was focusing on the sprites mostly
weak field
Shadings.
radiant meadow
obviously, terra edge recipe would change if the terra set is being changed to something else
because having the same recipe would be extremely weird
and if terra set didn't use living shards, it'll become an almost worthless filler material anyways
sand umbra
keep the Living Shards but change the recipes past that imo, having the set focus around Living Shards is a good thing
unreal viper
Delete terra edge. 
weak field
I take living shards as a post-plantera filter
sand umbra
finally, an acceptable segway into--
wait a minute my sword bloat doc isn't even started because hybrid weps and other things are much more interesting never mind
I do think "Terra" set could use some mechanical changes in places as well to make the items more interesting
(shoutouts in particular to Flameburster and Ray which aren't really engaging to use much at all)
weak field
I love terra edge don't kill me
Plus true melee life steal
And it looks slightly better than terra blade
gray nebula
keep terra edge so we can keep terra blade for zenith and edge for terratomere when 1.4 arrives (epicly)
weak field
Yeah
unreal viper
Keeping a weapon for a recipe later isn’t a good enough reason to keep it.
radiant meadow
normally I would say it should be reworked
but like
Temporal Floe Sword was my creative limit
sleek turret
anyways, i got the idea of making it a RIV while listening 1 hour of "Surgeon's Squeezebox"
so its kinda dumb
Back to the topic: It could be a RIV, but kinda doesn't fit with the textures, or massively decrease the sprites just to be a discount Terra Blade.
sleek turret
plantera? (nope.avi)
sand umbra
Plantera drop, honestly
since both currently are crafted using the direct mat drop from Plantera
sleek turret
yeah
weak field
Uh, you do know that 99% of the people here didn't get it until well after moonlord, if they ever got it that is, right?
@sterile arch
Yes, it can be obtained pre-hardmode, but it's just like reaver shark
distant gyro
reminder that this thing generates ANYWHERE in the cavern layer
weak field
Won't give you a crazy advantage, since it scales with your pickaxe
distant gyro
and there's 1 (one) (a single one) of them
sleek turret
arena builder
distant gyro
imagine the chances of finding it
sterile arch
the pickaxe scaling doesnt exactly matter because the speed is constantly beyond what you'd need at the point you could find it
sleek turret
yeah, also the best use of it is for arenas.
distant gyro
also yes you can't even sequence break
weak field
By pick scaling I mean, you can't mine chlorophyte ore at the start of hardmode, for example
distant gyro
and jumping is hell in this thing
sleek turret
yeah
distant gyro
that's enough to deter anyone from trying to get it imo
first factor in particular, rng is rng
sterile arch
the main use of the mount at that point would just be to invalidate cavern exploration because of how quickly you can move in it, you can essentially strip mine faster than you can at any point of the game, it takes away all of cave exploration just for getting lucky and finding the shrine it's in
mining horizontally faster than you could with moon lord level gear in pre-hardmode is completely broken even if you can't sequence break with it
weak field
Yeah? It's basically a super watered down version of crystyl crusher
And they're all countered with that rarity
Just like how halibut cannon works
sleek turret
wait, there was a thing that bounces and explodes right?
distant gyro
rubber mortar rounds if you refer to calam
sleek turret
ah yes rubber mortar rounds.
distant gyro
that's post provi or something
sleek turret
yeah
sleek turret
PC destroyer.
cobalt pewter
Mortar and rubber mortar seem like those kinda arrows that you pair with The Storm to make some fucked up mining
sleek turret
Better use the Fargo's bomb, since doesn't do a lag-fest, but freezes your game for some seconds.
cobalt pewter
Speaking of ammo, dang we need a new post ML bullet
Arrow got some in post ML, Bloodfire, Mortar and Rubber Mortar, and Vanquisher
sleek turret
Bloodfare Bullets
sleek turret
Godslayer Bullets like the Godslayer armor ranger bonus have.
distant gyro
rounds are bullets
idk how you thought they were arrows
(luminite and elysian btw)
cobalt pewter
I'm talking Calamity, so iirc only Holy Fire?
distant gyro
holy fire, meme rounds, rubber meme rounds
cobalt pewter
Oh wait
distant gyro
3 postml bullets
weak field
Rubber meme rounds lmao
cobalt pewter
And imma amend my statement
weak field
Best name ever
distant gyro
called them memes for a reason
cobalt pewter
Speaking of ammo, dang we need a new post ML, useful bullet
sleek turret
lag fest arrows, life recover arrows, holy v2 arrows.
weak field
These're even better names
cobalt pewter
Hell, a post dog bullet that kinda works like Eradicator or Obliterator, shooting lasers to nearby enemies, I'll take that
But anyway
weak field
The bullet would be too fast for the lasers to actually deal damage
There might only be one frame for the bullets to shoot lasers
cobalt pewter
make the bullet slow and homing
Though tbf it fits a rocket mor-
ROCKETS
WHY
Is there not even any rockets post ML
Is there even any rocket guns post ML?
sleek turret
I thinked an idea of making Verium Bullets slightly home into enemies.
cobalt pewter
Aside from celebrameme
cobalt pewter
Ah yes
radiant meadow
modded rocket support will hopefully be with tmod 1.4
sleek turret
chicken cannon
cobalt pewter
ooh
radiant meadow
modded rockets in 1.3 won't look pretty
radiant meadow
rockets are coded weirdly
sleek turret
there are 5 launchers post-ml
distant gyro
ye
radiant meadow
there is a reason all Cal launchers use custom rockets
cobalt pewter
Ahhh
distant gyro
meh
vanilla rockets 1.3 are marginally different from one another
so it didn't need a lot of tweaking i think
idk if the new liquid rockets in 1.4 was the factor but the idea made sense in my head
weak field
I think there's already liquid rockets as a mod
Or is it liquid solution for clencontaminator
cobalt pewter
Liquid + dry rockets
And there's the mininukes as well
Essentially Rocket V and VI
sleek turret
"Make Deathmode Astrum Deus require both bosses after a split require defeating"
makes sense.
makes it harder like deathmode should be.
cobalt pewter
I'd probably reduce both worms' HP to compensate, since iirc each worm has the HP of one phase 1 worm
So you're essentially fighting a boss with doubled HP once it goes into phase 2
sand umbra
sugg to nerf Onyx Excavator
gonna hit you with a no for the simple reason that the Cavern shrine is like impossible to find unless you specifically go out of your way to get it
sleek turret
Like I said before, best use is for arenas.
sand umbra
ohey a sugg to buff Shadethrower
my first question would be "does Shadethrower actually do well on crowds" but there are no crowds upon which to test it
because exploration is a myth
distant gyro
ooa meme
weak field
A horde of zombie maybe :/
distant gyro
throw shade at it
sand umbra
OOA is an outlier and should not be counted
and is also basically impossible without sentries anyway
distant gyro
sand umbra
I wish I was kidding
weak field
Eh that's why I only do it with friends or do it post-ml
weak field
Blame Dungeon Defender
sleek turret
also, the fact that OOA is basically impossible without sentries is true, since these days i was doing OOA T2 without sentries and only using Titanium Railgun.
cobalt pewter
I'm really holding myself to not go on a massive tangent about OOA
sleek turret
Which resulted into death.
weak field
Unless you have vastly superior gears or a bunch of friends, then yeah, basically impossible to do without sentries
sleek turret
but why didn't you use jester arrows?
weak field
Ech god is immune to ~~ ~~
weak field
sleek turret
sleek turret
now gotta activate AdBlock on Calamity Wiki since the spanish adds cover most of the page.
cobalt pewter
Ech god IS really immune to strikethrough
weak field
More like every emoji
cobalt pewter
Anyway, getting a lil offtopic here
weak field
Yeah
sleek turret
g'bay
cobalt pewter
I'd personally reduce HP of both P2 Deus worms if the sugg to make it mandatory to kill both in dmode goes thru
radiant meadow
duplicating worms
cobalt pewter
Because in its current state, forcing players to kill both is essentially fighting a boss with doubled HP to previous phase
untold cargo
This was already suggested
And denied I think
Ok it wasn’t the same as this but almost the same
And almost every single sentry suggestion has been denied
sand umbra
sentries are dead
shy iron
but that makes like
no sense
it completely invalidates 8 armor sets
theyre not even GOOD armor sets
sand umbra
crabrave
untold cargo
Actually I have seen no hitters use the sentry armours for the sentinels
hollow shell
It sure does, Sinna
The testers and devs just hate OOA and everything associated with it and would rather act like it doesn't exist instead of balance it
tawny garden
And almost every single sentry suggestion has been denied
this is the latest implemented sentry sugg: https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/655695890560057385
and what do you know? it was an instant flag
hollow shell
"instant"
I'm pretty sure this was one of those cases where we did a post-ML sentry recently then went back and added Completed to the suggs it applied to
tawny garden
ah
tawny garden
well, an "instant flag" happens when a sugg that hasn't reached the dev server is implemented
that's my definition
hollow shell
I would prefer if the devs didn't totally ignore OOA
but, if the testers refuse to touch it there's nothin we can do I guess
tawny garden
hollow shell
Likely, yes.
radiant meadow
guidelight was more inspired by the "please add summoner riv" suggestions than sentry suggs
and for the record
armor balancing is already an extreme pain in the ass (worse than weapon balancing)
there is good reason I don't want to dive into the mess of fixing up vanilla's mistakes on adding 8 different armor sets with the same summoner offensive stats when it's already painful enough to manage the likes of fathom swarmer, spooky, hydrothermic, reaver, tiki, etc.
unreal viper
I disagree with the idea that the sets are uselesss, but the fact is that only 2 of them willl be used.
Ooa def needs the penalty removed.
Just so you can actually beat the event.
shy iron
a good start would be to remove the penalty with any of the full sets
it wouldnt make them viable per se but it would make a whole lot of sense
unreal viper
I guess that would be fine if it was ooa sentries only, cause they are pretty bad.
And your main class would probably lose stats.
radiant meadow
I don't mind if it's removed during the event
violet dagger
Also mention adding good rewards to the event
sinful steeple
Yeah
violet dagger
Currently all of the rewards are p 
sinful steeple
Especially from dark mage because doesn't that thing like drop actually nothing
Except for a pet iirc
unreal viper
Add more rewards from not Betsy, got it.
sleek turret
rogue & summoner drops for betsy.
violet dagger
apart from tome of infinite chez
golden narwhal
Ogre seems alright drop-wise, tho they prolly need a buff
unreal viper
Betsy gear is p good iirc
sleek turret
if being creative, dark mage could drop some books and a magic weapon
also could drop an accesory.
radiant meadow
port over more DD2 weapons as funny references 🤫
sleek turret
port more MG series references
unreal viper
Ghastly glaive buff
That weapon is so sick.
Sad that it never gets used because it’s a true melee wep that doesn’t deal 10k dps.
sleek turret
atleast can be useful at destroyer... i guess?
sleek turret
"Everything that pierces is useful for Destroyer" - kaizowilta
hollow shell
Is Leaper's Sulph Scale sugg fine?
He doesn't provide a lot of exact numbers but he does mention Contaminated Bile taking 2 minutes longer than Seafoam Bomb
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/742883517243064391
dapper coral
that's probably fine, yeah
sleek turret
now contaminated bile does more damage via debuff?
hollow shell
"now"?
sleek turret
lemme see.
hollow shell
Clearly not really if it was still a whole 2 minutes behind
tawny garden
that's the bare minimum in terms of providing evidence for that, but it'll suffice I guess
hollow shell
And we already went over Leaper's other sugg indirectly, cuz of Gan's
Stats taken, we'll lower later if necessary
How's Feedza's Polter sugg?
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/742942878749425664
sleek turret
Could have sense, does Polterghast on the lore say that's made with souls or something?
hollow shell
Yeah I did indeed explain that to em
@cobalt pewter Do you wanna include any of that lore stuff I described in your suggestion, or no?
frail mantle
polter is an amalgamation of dungeon souls, most of which are blue
polter's drops are essentially made out of the best parts of Polterghast
at least i think that's the reason someone got from a dev after asking why Polter is blue when its drops are pink in Art
hollow shell
^
violet dagger
im still laughing at the qna video were lord metarex said he hates when people ask about the color of polter drops being different
sleek turret
Yeah, just palette swap Polterghast or palette swap the items.
frail mantle
also Polter is getting a resprite eventually™️ so it might end up not being blue
sleek turret
Soon™️
frail mantle
byeah polter consists mostly of ectoplasm, with a bit of phantoplasm as well, and polter's drops are pink cause they're made from polter's refined remains or something
sleek turret
"made within the refined remains of souls"
agile cloud
its like both color palettes
sleek turret
Yeah.
tawny garden
that's a bold sugg
dapper coral
who's "every member"
sleek turret
what to you refer as "bold"?
dapper coral
oh
agile cloud
i dont find polter hard
sand umbra
what is it with a lot of the boss changes this update being complained about
agile cloud
idk
sand umbra
I mean I get Ravager at least 'cause the fucker moves at mach 99 everywhere to beat you up and take your lunch money but damn people do not like these new fights
wild vector
Someone make a suggestion about making Polter easier I’m guessing?
sleek turret
Golem AI bosses (Crabulon, Ravager, AU) they have some complains since they can yeet you with a 50 tile jump.
Which I guess, stay on a platform.
plantera v2
wild vector
Honestly I faced that fight like I do Plantera... big open area, just circle around it... honestly not that hard... did the fight with the soul edge or Ark of the Elements... only took me like 2-3 tries
agile cloud
i loved the old polter fight and as soon as the update dropped i tried to nohit it
basically same strat
didnt even take me 10 mins to do
ofc
you gotta work around it
think about where they're gonna come from once they go offscreen
if they ever do
agile cloud
mhm
wild vector
Honestly any boss past Moon Lord is fair in difficulty... Cept Yharon... screw your 10 second invincibility into phase 2 while healing and you still attack me...
agile cloud
¯_(ツ)_/¯
sand umbra
Polterghast is a bullet hell boss
by what definition of bullet hell is Polter a bullet hell boss
wild vector
Either way, I wouldn’t say nerf it... I just git gud
dapper coral
by what definition of bullet hell is Polter a bullet hell boss
as in, there are many projectiles that exist at all times
also doesn't help that it's an enclosed area
agile cloud
and then there's touhou 
radiant meadow
a lot of things are like that
using the term bullet hell so loosely normalizes the word too much tbh
wild vector
I’d rather say there’s Bullet Hell... then there’s “CAVE B-Hell”
dapper coral
fair enough ig
frail mantle
yharon is more just Many Bullet, i feel
wild vector
I would say so... lots of fire balls on screen... especially in phase two
agile cloud
but isnt the premise of a bullet hell, "many bullet"
frail mantle
though with the new update he leans more into being BH than before
dapper coral
i'll just rephrase that to say that polter spews more projectiles than some bosses
in a shorter time period
wild vector
Anyway there’s a few good suggestions that broke the 200 wall recently... they are almost there
wild vector
Well okay maybe I was being to generous... like 1 actually got past approval
But the rest are in the upper 100s at like 170-180 which is pretty damn close to that 200 wall
wild vector
kinda wish mine was up there for the Ocean Spirit
But seems like 120s is the best it’s gonna get so not much interest there
agile cloud
ye
wild vector
Either way the ones that hit 170 and up are definite ones I’d be interested in seeing... glad the Summoner Modifier got approved
dapper coral
👍
hollow shell
How's Sandvich's uelibloom sugg?
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/742979525369135114
dapper coral
sure
ashen warren
Ive never looked at the map for ore but it makes sense
indigo fog
what is life quartz
radiant meadow
It's from Thorium
radiant meadow
do gilded/gleaming daggers target truffle worms?
craggy stratus
regarding my suggestion, it prob unnecessarily because player can craft the truffle worm at the beginning of HM
radiant meadow
I think it might just be an oversight in the way that Alterra does her homing code.
hollow shell
Seems quite small, if you have any ideas for improving/expanding it please let him know
ashen warren
I mean
radiant meadow
I assume he means a config
hollow shell
Yes assumedly.
heady storm
I mean, his eyes hurting doesn't really sound like enough.
You can always change the color settings/brightness of your monitor after all.
hollow shell
@fervent saddle Do you think you can try to expand the reasoning on your suggestion?
Your reasoning is pretty weak atm
real steppe
my sugg got implemented, yay
about the enchanted axe suggestion, isn't it true for all summons?
.. that the summons will randomly kill a truffle worm because reasons
heady storm
I'm pretty sure summons aren't supposed to attack it in general yeah.
real steppe
oh
heady storm
(I mean target it specifically, they still kill them if they contact.)
real steppe
ok
heady storm
Leviathan to me is pretty fun in its current state so not much I can say.
jovial spire
yeah it feels fine to me
it can get pretty hectic having to deal with bosses already
radiant meadow
how high exactly does it need to be?
hollow shell
@north inlet You need to format your suggestion correctly. Main idea at the top on a separate line (shift+enter) with the reasoning below
radiant meadow
isn't it already pretty high?
north inlet
sorry
radiant meadow
I forget exactly how much
hollow shell
1/3 in Normal, 1/2 in Expert
cobalt pewter
@hollow shell just woke up, but now that there's a confirmed reason for that, I can let my sugg die
violet dagger
leviathan imo doesnt need any new attacks
it's a near perfect boss imo in its current state
novel belfry
I hate sand's suggestion about the terra edge is a good idea
but i do have an alternative, and that's giving the night's edge and it's upgrades something unique for once
hollow shell
How's Feedza's DoG sugg?
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/743118424061771790
violet dagger
Yes
golden narwhal
Seems alright
ancient mirage
isnt he supposed to be like the worm equivalent of a teen
radiant meadow
personality wise though
hollow shell
as far as I'm aware DoG's supposed to be mature, just really arrogant cuz he's mega powerful
radiant meadow
Arrogant could potentially be interpreted as rebellious teen of a sort
sand umbra
DoG is at least somewhat mature physically but personality-wise he's an egotistical teen
I kind of wish there was a bit more to it than that but there's only so much you can convey with a worm that doesn't shut up as long as you're near him and is encountered exactly once 
I want to like this suggestion but like how else do you convey what exactly DoG is mentally with such a small timeframe to work with
cobalt pewter
Arrogant isn't necessarily cringe
hollow shell
It is indeed hard to make a character not be one-dimensional when they have so little screentime
heady storm
Isn't he also described as lazy?
hollow shell
Yeah I heard that from Fab
Drew a comparison to Frieza
Has so much in-built power that he doesn't bother training or learning any techniques or w/e, he just uses his raw natural power all the time
which is eventually his (their) undoing cuz it turns out that wasn't enough
radiant meadow
I think then players would be capable of getting way too tanky
fringe sky
I'm unsure if that's gonna be extremely likely unless they use outside mods like luiafk or the likes.
since it's still a 1:1 so getting like 300 defense for example would still mean they take a significant amount of damage from SCal
radiant meadow
You can already get really tanky in base cal if you build for it
fringe sky
well yeah for a focused tank I wouldn't be that surprised, but for non-tanks it seems to lack somewhat comparatively
not to mention that it's not like everyone plays to be a tank in the first place
people do boss fights with under 50 defense or even under 30 defense at times
well into hm
so it wouldn't exactly impact balance is my point
maybe slightly easier for some players but only to a point, since they'd still take severe damage unless they specifically hard build towards it
and even then they lose needed damage in timed scenarios
radiant meadow
I just don't think it'd be okay for tanking to completely trivialize bosses
fringe sky
does master mode defense trivialize bosses in 1.4?
radiant meadow
And I think rev def was 1 to 1 in the past if I'm not mistaken
fringe sky
I wouldn't say so
fringe sky
cal also tends to have a lot of damage sources outside of what defense can normally reduce
in debuffs for example
plus arguably a lot harder to avoid attacks comparatively
radiant meadow
It provides a lot of ways to counter a lot of these debuffs
left crest
A possible solution could be to have a defense ratio between that of Expert and Master, to compensate for the slightly increased damage values on Rev without overcompensating
radiant meadow
Why not just keep it the same and not rebalance at all then
fringe sky
also generally speaking, enemies in master mode deal less damage than those in rev/death
cobalt pewter
Yeah 100% effectiveness is kinda overkill in these 2 modes
fringe sky
since calamity's enemies deal higher base damage
cobalt pewter
I'd say 80% on rev
radiant meadow
That's not necessarily true
radiant meadow
Rev/death doesn't even boost the damage of most standard enemies
left crest
True, this'd have an effect much more on normal enemies than on bosses
Taking that into consideration, while I see it as valid, I wouldn't star this sugg, even if the value were reduced
fringe sky
maybe a boss specific reduction in that case?
also here's to compare two bosses of similar progression (plantera vs calamitas)
whole sedge
yeah defense doesn't need a boost in Rev/Death as currently how defense is calculated is perfectly fine, Rev doesn't have the 450ish damage rolling cacti Master Mode does so tanking hits isn't really that much needed imo 
fringe sky
actually, huh, calamitas does less
left crest
rolling cactus moment indeed
fringe sky
at lesat in terms of contact
limber ocean
thing is, damage reduction is a lot more prevalent in Calamity
increasing defense would require a whole lot of rebalancing
whole sedge
^^, the playtesters definitely do not want to basically completely rebalance defense for sure
armor balancing is already painful and messy enough
real lintel
has anyone made any discussion in regard to switching the primary and secondary functions of Crystyl Crusher?
The beam is good for boaring out tunnels but when all you want to do is pick up a sign or chest you placed in the wrong place you cant directly rightclick on it or you open its interface instead.
left crest
iirc not possible due to code reasons
dapper coral
yeah, it's in the don'ts
because it's physically not possible
because terraria code silly
hollow shell
So how's Shades's sugg
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/743120990854447168
mighty knot
yes please
I mean, the title isn't bold and there's no line break, and they don't go into nearly enough detail, but the idea is fine
hollow shell
There is a line break. You only need one
heady storm
Maybe a reason for a rogue drop in particular?
hollow shell
Yeah sure
@still cliff You can elaborate more on why rogue specifically needs a mimic drop
There's definitely elaboration to make in that area
you just gotta add it
cobalt pewter
What if Crystyl's actions are swapped?
Primary is normal pick
Whiel secondary is b e a m
hollow shell
Feedza we just said that wasn't possible
cobalt pewter
oh
mighty knot
can we unpin and re-pin the don't document?
it's the third message down and you kinda have to do some scrolling
not exactly something you'd go to click on without being told to
hollow shell
It can be the second pin cuz the top one is the sugg_disc welcome pin
aight cool
frail mantle
should the third pin (Ben's one about sugg advertising) be unpinned cause the sugg disc welcome pin already covers sugg advertising
hollow shell
Yes
ashen warren
I just had an idea about a config to give super dummies dr/defense to accurately test weapons, would that be a good suggestion or no?
heady storm
Sounds like it could be one, only issue I see is implementing how one would adjust those stats on the dummies ingame.
ashen warren
Fair, but it'd be done like any other config in my head
heady storm
Config slider? Actually sounds pretty convenient ngl.
whole sedge
Yea that sounds good for dps testing
tawny garden
you could consider taking up inventory space a drawback for these
chilly solstice
And a drawback for all other lore items I suppose
tawny garden
yep
chilly solstice
Well, kinda makes sense
tawny garden
funnily enough, before lore items got their drawbacks, suggs about them taking less inventory space weren't allowed, but you can make them now
heady storm
Are you saying they are candates for reworks as in... Making them do other stuff? Or just changing the nature in which they are utilized.
chilly solstice
Sorry, by "rework" I meant what I said in the header, turning them into power-ups
heady storm
Yeah, the rework part can be reworded is what I'm trying to say.
chilly solstice
Okay
hollow shell
m, I big disagree with this suggestion because having em in your inventory is an inherent balance factor
especially considering the items themselves pertain to filling up your inventory easier
But, it's a valid suggestion
heady storm
Another thing suggestable is to just make them drop powerups that increase your grab range permanently that are seperate from the lore items, but I'm sure that would also require making the lore items do something else.
hollow shell
I think the most reasonable suggestion would be to give them downsides
Pure consistency argument.
cobalt pewter
Why bother with lore items when you can have s u c c potion
heady storm
Only example of a side-effect I really see would be to do something like maybe also increase your hurtbox size.
hollow shell
Because the succ potion is 3/4ths of the way through the game
chilly solstice
Well I actually had items separate from lores as power-ups in mind when writing. Akin to the Demon Trophy. That's not in the core nature of the suggestion though
Now that I think about it, 1.25x spawnrates would be a good effect for WoF lore item, no?
Yeah, no, forget about it
heady storm
I was just stating an example of what I thought the side effect could be, they aren't necessary since the devs are technically who decide the effects.
cobalt pewter
Now that I think about it, yes, maybe all lores should have some kinda drawback, Aureus and Deus are basically a must have in major space fights
Like SW
chilly solstice
No, i meant 1.25 rates not as a drawback to the lore, but its only effect, and increased item grab range moved to a separate item.
But that's a theme for another suggestion I guess, not now
heady storm
Technically your sugg is valid so eh.
tawny garden
I assume this means that damage dealt to the Player also scales
heady storm
Yeah.
tawny garden
ashen warren
Regarding my sugg?
tawny garden
yea
subtle oracle
That might be debilitating for the player, but it would turn Traps into a threat late game too. Which is not the case currently
tawny garden
I'd like that actually
ashen warren
Yeah it would, but the main idea was to make as I said the auric grind more fun
chilly solstice
On a side note, I recently noticed that in Rev I receive 15 damage from spikes in the Dungeon with like 150 defence. Do spikes scale currently or do they just ignore part of the defence or what?
subtle oracle
Auric grind is just terraform caves with your overly powerful and fast digging tool in order to find the auricular veins
ashen warren
I was talking about the mats for the auric bars besides that
Such as essences
and other things
subtle oracle
autocorrect wtf ;-;
ashen warren
like phantoplasm
subtle oracle
Ah I see
chilly solstice
But yeah I'm all for traps scaling (or simply ignoring def altogether), especially in regards to player damage
ashen warren
They'd scale based on progression or when events get buffed
so like at the start of pml traps would become a huge threat cuz both blood moon and a major game advancement happened
I forgot the word buff
hollow shell
(btw @heady storm I'm boutta sleep so be sure to get approvals for all the 12-hour-overdue suggs starting w/ this one #suggestions-posting message )
tawny garden
gn
civic gust
How plausible is this? (credits to kirn)
subtle oracle
GN rover, sleep well
hollow shell
Cya
ashen warren
Cya rover
civic gust
Bye rover
subtle oracle
Hmm, what died? The link Rover posted
cobalt pewter
Tom's?
heady storm
Yeah his.
cobalt pewter
I guess it's a yes
Terra Disk is one of the more unique ones in concept, so I can give it a pass
ashen warren
It looks alright?
cobalt pewter
But I noticed the lack of uniqueness with Terra Ray and its upgrades
Only Fabstaff in the end has smth unique
heady storm
Alrighty, anything he needs to change about it though?
cobalt pewter
Sugg wise, nah
civic gust
terra disk is pretty shit tho
cobalt pewter
It's valid imo
heady storm
Alrighty, I'll approve it.
cobalt pewter
terra disk is pretty shit tho
@civic gust again, unique concept
subtle oracle
I dont see much wrong with thomas' sugg tbh, most of his suggs are pretty well refined
cobalt pewter
Not necessarily good
civic gust
cobalt pewter
The projectile limit, as much as I hate it, is what limiting it from being not as unique as the progression goes
heady storm
tawny garden
it's valid
cobalt pewter
It's valid yes
I heard about making it a Terra blade RIV while the sugg is discussed
tawny garden
kind of a follow up, but it stands on its own
cobalt pewter
Which is interesting
heady storm
tawny garden
it's fine, although disagreeable
cobalt pewter
Is an onyx shrine guaranteed every world?
subtle oracle
This is a debatable one yea
tawny garden
I don't think it is
heady storm
This mount should not be obtainable this early in progression because it completely throws out early game to even late hardmode mining.
I feel like this takes away as a whole other solution since the devs could just move it in progression.
tawny garden
the guaranteed ones are the abyss and underworld one
heady storm
Well, only the abyss one is now yeah.
tawny garden
ah, yea
heady storm
The lab is guaranteed though still.
cobalt pewter
Mmhm
tawny garden
"extra challenge" is the only reason
cobalt pewter
It's a drastic change for dmode to me
Since you'd end up fighting a boss with doubled HP at phase 2 in that case
unkempt bolt
i mean it kinda makes sense but yeah the reasoning is weak
unkempt bolt
it isn't necessarily the added challenge but instead that the fight wouldn't become anymore interesting under these changes
tawny garden
yea, somebody's challenge is another person's annoyance
heady storm
@sage granite you need a bit more reasoning besides "it would be an extra challenge."
unkempt bolt
it would just take longer while adding nothing to the fight
like golem's body after the head is dead, you've pretty much already won
subtle oracle
not everyone is a no hitter 
heady storm
tawny garden
yep
tawny garden
wrote an essay there
cobalt pewter
Izzy's valid
subtle oracle
Oh i like this one
cobalt pewter
And the bloat in the sugg is mainly the testing
heady storm
heady storm
tawny garden
it's long overdue
unkempt bolt
yeah the discord link dont work for me
subtle oracle
ikr feed
heady storm
Wait the link broke?
cobalt pewter
Ah yes
unkempt bolt
for me and feed at least
cobalt pewter
OOA
tawny garden
works for me
heady storm
Discord does the funny day infinite it seems.
unkempt bolt
yeah looks good
subtle oracle
The funny is pretty anti-pog
unkempt bolt
although im not sure how possible it is to affect sentry damage without affecting summon damage
heady storm
When someone suggests it.
tawny garden
subtle oracle
its time.,
cobalt pewter
tawny garden
nope, that's different
heady storm
Last one as far as I'm concerned. https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/743228400289710160
cobalt pewter
Is that the OOA one?
tawny garden
not 12 hours yet
cobalt pewter
And yes
tawny garden
hold on there, turbo
cobalt pewter
Just a bit early
unkempt bolt
idk ech can definitely be used as the opposite of pog
heady storm
Oh you're right Philo, we need to wait 24 minutes.
cobalt pewter
o o f
unkempt bolt
and 12 hours
cobalt pewter
But about the sugg itself
God yes please
OOA is fucking shitty
It's the worst event in vanilla yet
heady storm
Guess I'll come back in that time span and ask again.
woeful lantern
Ooa should get more relevancy ye
cobalt pewter
okay, gotta hold myself back, no OOA rant
unkempt bolt
its definitely the most unique but glaring issues that make it awful
heady storm
(But thanks for y'alls help with overviewing the ones that did get through.)
unkempt bolt
to the point where the rewards would have to be incredibly good to make it worth doing
unkempt bolt
without changing major aspects of the event to make it more bearable, namely how long it takes
subtle oracle
NP Ig chetto
cobalt pewter
Overall the sugg itself is pretty nice, it points out some of the glaring problems
woeful lantern
Ooa is pain
cobalt pewter
Like the massive idle time between the waves
unkempt bolt
that's the main one yeah
tawny garden
oh yeah
woeful lantern
Wave complete but there are still 20 more enemies
unkempt bolt
nobody needs a decade to collect etherian mana
subtle oracle
i mean isn't it supposed to reflect the DD equivalent
cobalt pewter
nobody needs a decade to collect etherian mana
@unkempt bolt you don't even need to move since conveyor belts exist
It can save time getting the manas
cobalt pewter
I'd personally reduce the native idle time between waves to 20, and add an item that lets a player instantly start the next wave
woeful lantern
There should be an option to skip to the next wave when u want dungeon defenders 2 has this but isnt implemented in terraria i think
tawny garden
oh, it has that?
woeful lantern
Would be hard to do i'd imagine tho
unkempt bolt
adding that to calamity probably sounds like hell because red yeah
tawny garden
it's def possible to implement that item
cobalt pewter
Summon penalty is kinda aids on OOA as well, as the entirety of the event revolves around multiclassing
woeful lantern
In dd2 when u beat a wave u have a build phase which is infinite i think or like a very long time and then u press a key and start next wave
unkempt bolt
yeah the wait time in terraria doesn't make sense
cobalt pewter
But raising defender medal drops would be nice as well
cobalt pewter
Infinite wait time wouldn't really make sense either in Terraria, as you can stock up with massive leniency between each wave
woeful lantern
What it should be in my opinion is after u kill all the enemies instead of that dumb progress bar u have 15 seconds to rest and then start next phade
Sadly isnt like that in vanilla
unkempt bolt
15 with a skip option sounds fine tbh
woeful lantern
Ye but it would be hard because red code
woeful lantern
I think fargo does that but i could be wrong
cobalt pewter
I'll take note of that
woeful lantern
And on fargo the crystal gains more defence so it doesnt die in 10 seconds during betsy wave
woeful lantern
Actually no because dd2 doesnt do that and its supposed to represent dd2
cobalt pewter
Maybe disabling other enemy drops when on wave 7 of T3 would be nice as well
Idk
The enemies spawning while betsy swings around is kinda aids
Idc if this one doesn't represent DD2 or anything, but it's just dumb design
And that's why Calamity has boss zen
woeful lantern
Hmm ye, dealing with a tanky boss and having to deal with enemies that have aids is pain
woeful lantern
Hmm same
cobalt pewter
Simply put:
- Reduce native timer to 20s and add an item that forces the timer to 5s.
- Raise Medal drops.
- Disable mob spawns during wave 7 of T3.
woeful lantern
Ye those changes would be nice
cobalt pewter
Anyway, imma just tell chetto sugg's valid when they go back here
woeful lantern
Sme
woeful lantern
So we spent over 10 minutes compaining about a dumb event. nice
cobalt pewter
There's not enough time to rant about OOA
God this event is horrible
They really need a design supervisor to accompany red
Unguarded, he can be wild
heady storm
Prime thing I needed to know was if the suggestion is fine based off of these rants so yeah. 
cobalt pewter
Yeah it's valid and needed
woeful lantern
Ye, ooa should get reworked
sage granite
you need a bit more reasoning besides "it would be an extra challenge."
I'd edit it but from the sights of things in here it's not something that's needed so I'll drop it
heady storm
I mean, you could explain how Deus in death atm isn't that challenging.
(Or better yet, what changes it currently has from Rev.)
@sage granite come back please. 
heady storm
Alrighty then I suppose.
sage granite
Lost connection, Did anything I said send
heady storm
Sorry I'm at work
I'll be in and out
If these are all you sent then yes.
sage granite
I'll say again, Deus is a challange but when it splits and you only need to kill 1 it just feels off as the other will just die, There is 2 so you should need to kill em both to win
At least in Deathmode
Revengence not so much
heady storm
As I mentioned, you could also bring up how rev and death don't have significant changes from each other. (AfaIk they don't anyway.)
sage granite
You've a point
Well I'll think it over and redo when on break, I'll DM it your way first so we can sort out any little wrinkles in it
heady storm
Alrighty, sounds fine, I do have to sleep though so don't expect a response instantly depending on when your break does happen.
subtle oracle
sleep well Chetto
sage granite
In a hour
ashen warren
the old one's army suggestion is pretty questionable
frail mantle
the one about reworking it?
ashen warren
yes
not only you can ignore the event till hardmode pre mechboss
so you can farm the event with powerful hardmode gear
but the fact they said the even is "not rewarding" is just shocking
maybe because the added summon damage is very nerfed in calamity
cobalt pewter
The entire concept about the event itself is HEAVILY flawed
I'm not gonna talk about drops, since they can adapt to the event
But the event itself
Is flawed to crazy degrees
Supremely slow pacing
Sentry gameplay enforcement
And in Calamity's case, summon penalty, which basically made something that's encouraged in the event impossible
tawny garden
I've never actually done the event at the point in progression when I'm supposed to
ashen warren
i may disagree with you because you providing no stand for your point
i do it after golem
cobalt pewter
Oh and also
ashen warren
the armor and sentry weapons are very great
cobalt pewter
Remember the sole reason why Boss Zen exists?
ashen warren
if you're not playing calamity ofc
cobalt pewter
And it's extremely aids in general
tawny garden
if you're not playing calamity ofc
well, this is the Calamity discord server
cobalt pewter
Hell, funny thing is, the person who suggested OOA rework even said OOA isn't bad a while back
But that's aside the point
frail mantle
we're talking about OOA in the context of Calamity, aren't we
ashen warren
Feedza i get why you hate the event, that is normal
cobalt pewter
Imma go elaborate on some of the flaws I pointed about OOA, first off, pacing.
ashen warren
but you can't just force your own naratives without explaination
it can be a slow event if you do it in pre hardmode
that is obv
you can do it pre mech boss with hardmode gear
cobalt pewter
Each wave has 30 seconds delay between them, which is extremely unnecessary as most of the things you'd do don't even need that much time. And in the end you'd end up just sitting there like a clueless dumbass.
Also, with the intended progression points, doing the event can be quite long at some points throughout the event
As everything is tanky as shit
cobalt pewter
last time I did OOA was in 1.4, so I might need to recheck on that specifically
Anyway, sentry enforcement
cobalt pewter
Isn't this a sandbox/adventure game at core?
ashen warren
you don't have to use it
cobalt pewter
At least in the perspective of vanilla
tawny garden
you don't have to use it
you're gonna be better off using it
cobalt pewter
Also if you haven't noticed, if you don't use the OOA armors and not at least doing sentry in general, you're heavily crippled
ashen warren
it is rewarding to use it yes
even outside of the event
so it is wrong to say "the event isn't rewarding"
tawny garden
one class (or subclass) shouldn't be more viable than others
ashen warren
Also if you haven't noticed, if you don't use the OOA armors and not at least doing sentry in general, you're heavily crippled
sentry summon and normal summons don't count on each other right?
so you can use your normal summoner armor
and add summons on top of the sentry
tawny garden
yes
cobalt pewter
Crystals?
ashen warren
the green mana thingy
cobalt pewter
As I said, doesn't matter in event
ashen warren
where you can spam as many sentries as you want
cobalt pewter
But I think
Fuck lemme check something, I'm unsure about sentry slots
Obviously normal sentries will need those slots
ashen warren
i'm pretty sure they're seperate
cobalt pewter
But I'm not sure if OOA ones need em in event
ashen warren
no you don't
frail mantle
normal sentries need entry slots
ashen warren
you can summon as many sentries in the event as long as you have green mana
frail mantle
OOA ones have no limit aside from projectile cap and can be summoned as long as you have etherian mana
cobalt pewter
Ah yeah