looks like they were pinged about the dank staff AI as well? but they didn't change it to reflect that
#suggestions-discussion
dapper coral
tawny garden
yeah, dps tests are needed
dapper coral
they weren't pinged about dps tests, so: @wild fiber can you do some testing with blood clot vs seabound on a boss so we can see just how much worse blood clot is?
do the shift+enter between your title and reason
smoky wagon
Is starmada really that bad
I know there are some bad instances of over-nerfing items
That would explain it
tawny garden
Guwahavel, you should have the reason on a separate line
smoky wagon
Fixed
tawny garden
sage granite
There an easy way for me to find my own suggestions that are in voting ?
tawny garden
right click on your pfp → user id
hollow shell
You can copy your own user ID and search for that in Discord, in:suggestions-voting
tawny garden
and stick that into the search bar
hollow shell
all the bot's mentions of you are technically just your user ID written out (then disguised as a ping)
tawny garden
make sure you have developer mode on
sage granite
👍 Thanks
tawny garden
you can't search by mention cause mentions aren't executed in embeds
rustic pond
oh sorry
hollow shell
The Taser's return speed is intentionally bad to make it a riskier item to use
ashen warren
spoiler period is over
Oh neat
tawny garden
you could tell that the spoiler period is over by noticing that you can no longer see #spoiler-channel
dapper coral
(tbf i'm sure some people have it muted anyways so they wouldn't notice if it was gone)
i suppose the real question is this
The Taser's return speed is intentionally bad to make it a riskier item to use
@rustic pond read this and reevaluate if your sugg is necessary or not
ashen warren
I mute all servers im in
sinful steeple
Bloodstone is also gotten incredibly fast if you farm bosses, I got like 60 plat from selling bloodstone I didn't need
golden narwhal
@wispy heron dps tests perhaps
wispy heron
maybe, but on a moving target with over 3 defense it does absolutley nothing
tawny garden
they are now necessary
tawny garden
cause it's said in the doc that they should be included
kill times on bosses are needed mostly
dapper coral
also you don't have to be so aggressive about it
specifically calling it hot garbage
tawny garden
(although I dunno whether the kill time is needed if it's ∞ 
)
dapper coral
we need proof that it's infinity lol
balmy jay
A kill time of infinity would require that the boss regens faster than you can damage it
Or disappears before you can kill it
tawny garden
enemies can't regenerate HP
balmy jay
Then the latter
tawny garden
well fair, it can't be infinity if you have godmode on
weak field
Most of the spiky balls weapon are hard to use and land on their own
I use them like how you use SSV: put them around like sentries and sneak in some free damage when bosses are around there
balmy jay
Or use shadow potion for pre-DoG god slayer inferno
golden narwhal
sprime was actually the 2nd most fun mech/alt boss for me
weak field
Have to say that Sprime is the most chaotic one
But actually the easiest one
Since the pattern is pretty predictable
woeful lantern
id say destroyer is more chaotic now because of how fast he is
sinful steeple
SP can be buffed I just don't want the probes ever again
woeful lantern
probes bad
weak field
Twins is just frantic shit; destroyer is not that hard but so tanky that it becomes an endurance battle
woeful lantern
twins is very repetitive, fun but kinda boring
golden narwhal
twins are the best
sinful steeple
I don't like the way Retinazer moves but they're fine honestly
golden narwhal
Kinda agreed (regarding the dash at least)
woeful lantern
i love twins but i wish in calamity they were more aggressive rather than just p3 only
balmy jay
Once I get back on my computer I'll share my accessories for cryogen and see if I should switch anything
woeful lantern
destroyer is fine tho imo
golden narwhal
Kinda unsure
woeful lantern
i never use them because i think all spiky ball weapons are bad except devourer of gods one
balmy jay
I mean, even the hardmode metal rogue weapons (ie palladium javelin) have autofire
golden narwhal
If it has a relatively fast usetime, don't see a need for it not to
Small hop back to sprime: is this referring to p1 and p2 in all difficulties
Cause he's almost always attacking with something
woeful lantern
ye ok
golden narwhal
Regarding melon' sugg, this would only happen to cater for the running away strat, yes?
There are alot of different strats to more easily avoid the lasers
So I don't really see why it should be changed to help one strat
fiery rapids
does anyone else thing the damage that the polterghast clone does is too much?
woeful lantern
havent faught the new polterghast yet but from the past versions it was pretty obnoxious
fiery rapids
i didnt mind it but the fight rework makes that 240 damage much more noticable
woeful lantern
she is the next boss on my list so i hope its not as bad as u say it is
not really relevant @dire garnet
fiery rapids
i need to see if other people think that the damage is too much do to the fight rework
because the clone is faster than you are and will intercept you
woeful lantern
clone is insanely aggressive so ye it does sound somewhat unreasonable
but havent tried it myself so like i cant be sure
fiery rapids
yeah when you do if it's soon tell me if you think it's unreasonable
woeful lantern
wont be fighting her anytime soon cause its basically midnight and im not in the mood for calamity atm, so ye wont fight her for a while
fiery rapids
ah
tawny garden
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/742137155391848448 wait a sec, how long was that sugg in posting?
fiery rapids
like an hour
tawny garden
tawny garden
@terse sundial why did you approve that so early?
terse sundial
It makes sense, there is zero problem with it, and is something that can be done quickly
tawny garden
alright
it's kinda against precedent tho
weak field
yeah
fiery rapids
what is y'alls opinion on the damage that the polter clone does?
terse sundial
Is there a new oldest>newest precedent in place here
tawny garden
more like "at least 12 hours"
balmy jay
I think that shadow potions shouldn't make you COMPLETELY invisible, only mostly
tawny garden
(although I don't mind having posting a bit cleaner now)
balmy jay
Since ngl being completely invisible and moving around makes me a bit dizzy
terse sundial
alright
tawny garden
a sugg about that is in voting rn, mrmagolor
balmy jay
Ah
Glad I asked
Before I made a duplicate
It isn't a problem if you constantly attack but
balmy jay
A good standard IMO is the vanilla shroomite level of invisible
Which is still less visible than normal stealth invisibility (if you have it toggled on)
I think it's also the fact that the invisibility is instant
From completely opaque to completely invisible
And not correlating to your stealth meter
fiery rapids
is there anything i should change about this before i repost it?
Lower the amount of damage the polterghast clone does
Due to the fight being reworked, the polter clone is now faster and more aggressive and it will actively try to intercept you this isnt a problem as it makes the fight more difficult which is good because before polterghast was kind of a pushover. The final phase however is much more difficult than the first two because the clone will do upwards of 240 damage even with tarragon armor and is extremely difficult to avoid. this is what has killed me the most and it feels incredibly cheap and not really a thing to get better at more so as a "pray you somehow manage to dodge it's charge"
rose latch
:+1:
tawny garden
ono, spare SCal sugg again
woeful lantern
no reasoning, its a cool idea but whats the reasoning other than it would be cool
dapper coral
@ancient igloo "it would be cool" is not valid reasoning
gray nebula
undertale in calamity tho
dapper coral
undertale in calamity tho
double invalid lul
ancient igloo
I know that I'm still trying to figure that part out myself, thought maybe someone else would have some ideas on it
tawny garden
I always did genocide
dapper coral
frankly, if you don't have a reason for an idea that you're suggesting, you shouldn't be suggesting it
weak field
Nah the devs won't like it
tawny garden
yea, it ideally should be reason first
weak field
I always do genocide yeah ~~albeit I always hack health and money because I'm so bad at it 
~~
You should have a reason and then suggestion
If your only reason is "that'd be cool" then don't suggest it
Also, references generally doesn't count as a reason
heady storm
Not to mention Crystyl Crusher is above SCal in terms of progression.
weak field
RoD 
ancient igloo
Again thought maybe someone else would, and I didn't think a reference would just wanted to add it
heady storm
Example shown isn't the best is what I'm trying to say.
weak field
Fair
burnt beacon
not enough reason in sugg, but damn if you could spare Scal that would be sick
tawny garden
oh yeah, unnecessary embedded file
weak field
I'd love to have a spare option and then having her as a town npc or something helping you beat yharim
But that's probably for an addon and not calamity itself atm
burnt beacon
yeah
sand umbra
while I would want to see something like that in Calamity proper, I don't think it's really something the devs wanna focus right now
tawny garden
oh yeah, wack her with your mega weapons till she's almost dead and then invite her to your home to chat with her over a cup of tea
sand umbra
if and when it does happen, it'll most lilkely be when her fight gets properly updated
sand umbra
extinguish the calamitous flame in the coldest of blood
balmy jay
That's a pretty cold-hearted move
weak field
Welp, it's more like being a nearly draw, and then you decides to not kill her
It's a superboss after all
It's a two person show, not just you wacking her
balmy jay
Tbh though I think that it would make the most sense
If shadow potion made you a silhouette
As in, pure black sprite
Which fits the buff icon
weak field
yeah
balmy jay
I mean, it'd still theoretically make you invisible at night or in space with no torches
ashen warren
Going back on the spare SCal idea, SCal doesn't exactly die after the fight to begin with, but I get what they're trying to say
ancient igloo
I do like the npc idea
ashen warren
The old calamity expansion mod seraph made had her as an NPC
ancient igloo
Oh cool
woeful ginkgo
Wait, is Yharon's contact damage during the beginning of his spin getting removed next patch?
woeful ginkgo
Is that this attack you are talking about?
From what I saw there is 2 spins attack but one of them is not the BH
although if the contact damage is getting removed on that one attack then it's alright, I won't need to make a suggestion
ashen warren
sparing scal is already planned i think
unreal viper
I hate scal so I’ll never do it, but it would be fine ig
Kinda awkward tho
Lore is kinda an optional thing
It would be odd for people that don’t bother
heady storm
They still need to have more reasoning so yeah.
untold lance
itd be really weird to spare SCal for new players
like
"I just defeated this superboss, why is it an NPC now??"
ancient crow
i mean, even when you kill her she doesn't really die
she has a quote that basically says she can respawn like the player
sinful steeple
That's a meta quote that doesn't actually mean anything
hollow shell
So uh Mack's modifier sugg is all good now cuz of all the feedback he got, right?
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/741814871993221190
tawny garden
yee
unkempt bolt
looks good
mighty knot
hollow shell
What
radiant meadow
Magic Dagger doesn't deserve a recipe
tawny garden
how tf do you make an npc from another mod do stuff for you?
hollow shell
@hushed stirrup You need to ask Fargo to do that, not us.
hushed stirrup
Ok thanks for telling me
tawny garden
byeah, Larynda's sugg gut ist
sand umbra
but that's not actually how that works
well, not with the other two siblings
with Devi that is how it works for now because iirc a modcall doesn't exist for her
but modcalls exist for the other two (and subsequently, mods have to handle boss and event summon sales on their end)
radiant meadow
deviantt doesn't have mod calls ye
radiant meadow
altho we would only make her sell sandstorm core thingy
sand umbra
yeah it'd just be Sandstorm's Core unless like
summons for the other rare enemies were sprited
radiant meadow
since we don't have any other miniboss summons
wild fiber
@dapper coral Soz didn't see this, I'll do some testing today
hollow shell
wooden lance
idk about you but im a fan lol
heady storm
They serve as a headstart into hardmode so yeah, I think it's fine.
(Maybe include what I just said actually.)
radiant meadow
it's fine
tawny garden
yep, fine
wooden lance
lemme add that first
hollow shell
welp
wooden lance
before approval
heady storm
I did the do too fast.
hollow shell
Wait Chetto why the heck did you do it
wooden lance
f
heady storm
(Ben said sure.)
wooden lance
oh well, i can think of worse things
hollow shell
I mean you can redo it if you want like rq
heady storm
Yeah if you wanna go for it.
wooden lance
eh, i think its pretty self-evident
heady storm
(Sorry for doing that Rover.)
wooden lance
nobodys hurt, all good
wooden lance
absolutely
heady storm
Completely.
tawny garden
good
hollow shell
wooden lance
im not a fan of the sugg myself but i dont mind forwarding it to the people
heady storm
It's valid so yeah.
hollow shell
Reasoning kinda blows but ¯_(ツ)_/¯
wooden lance
my thoughts exactly, let it die in voting
loud cloak
my suggestion needs 54 more votes ahhh
heady storm
There could be one other source for wanting to multiclass like this maybe.
wooden lance
i can get behind introducing more multiclass armours for summon
but i dont think this one is it
tawny garden
the reason makes no sense
loud cloak
pleassse let it get delivered would be my dream
wooden lance
this isnt how you do it
tawny garden
sugg advertisement is disallowed
heady storm
Yeah don't promote it please, it'll get its requirement naturally if the community agrees.
tawny garden
the reason being that only the best of the best go through
heady storm
If it doesn't by a week, you can resuggest it.
radiant meadow
my reason being because I said don't do it
tawny garden
heady storm
wooden lance
heady storm
What exactly more could they use in their suggestion reasoning Rover?
tawny garden
remove the funy youtuber mentioning, for a start
sand umbra
I'm gonna have to issue a no to this sugg unless it changes drastically in the next 3 hours
the "reasoning" isn't actually reasoning at all it's just "I wanna do a multiclass playthrough because my favorite YouTuber did it" and then
a statement of what was already assessed in the title
wooden lance
fair enough
sand umbra
then a restatement of the title
tawny garden
you can't issue a no, apply for a mod first
wooden lance
im not married to my opinion on this garbage at all
sand umbra
the local grumpster, of course, issues a no anyway
polar grove
that suggestion would be a literal balancing nightmare
heady storm
I mean we don't really issue a no either, we just tell them to fix it and if they can't by a set time it just dies.
sand umbra
I'm not entirely serious about the no part but like
they really need a better reason if they want this to hit voting before it dies
or. any reasoning at all
the current reasoning isn't even reasoning it's just statement of facts
heady storm
@ripe owl you need better reasoning besides "this youtuber did it and I wanna try without the penalty."
wooden lance
tbf facts are a reason, but the man doesnt use facts
tawny garden
But there is a problem: the damage penalty applies to the weapon for the summoner if the player is holding a weapon of a different class.
that's not a problem, that's how it works
wooden lance
or woman its 2020
sand umbra
correction, he doesn't use relevant facts
wooden lance
^
polar grove
not having the damage penalty is a bigger problem than having it
sand umbra
the assertion that the damage penalty applies is in fact a fact
polar grove
it would require a complete rebalancing of the entire class
wooden lance
damage penalty doesnt affect caustic staff debuffs unfort
sand umbra
it's just not one that helps their case because that's how it works currently
damage penalty doesnt affect caustic staff debuffs unfort
you know, I'm not in the middle of a sugg theme right now
I could always just throw a little curveball regarding summon penalty also applying to debuff durations from summons~
tawny garden
hm, seems that Sauceboi1820 hasn't been pinged
@subtle knoll your sugg is literally impossible to do
sand umbra
not impossible but also not worth the time
subtle knoll
I know
wooden lance
well, glad my offhand comment improved your sugg
tawny garden
it'd be buggy af
radiant meadow
I mean it was talked about already
polar grove
slots past the 7th one are extremely buggy
and annoying to make
should that be added to the donts doc?
sand umbra
it already is
subtle knoll
There was a full convo last night I’m well aware of the work
radiant meadow
and then that convo lead to 8th acc being added to don't
polar grove
heady storm
(I don't think we can yeet it either.)
heady storm
Yeah, howzabout the other suggs?
wooden lance
yeah, i agree with that
radiant meadow
it sounds kind of like they're saying tarragon gear (for example) should be on par with exo weapons or vice versa
sand umbra
we're not at evil island sugg yet
polar grove
instead of the evil islands
sand umbra
and also I'm not ready for the inevitable argument yet
polar grove
i dont really have anything to say about the ones above it
sand umbra
we're currently on Diamond's sugg about SCal-par balance memes
where half the weaponry has exorbitant crafting trees and balance is an absolute meme
radiant meadow
just use the wand
sand umbra
wand is best weapon
viable for SCal and early BR if you don't mind being unable to see
distant gyro
Ataraxia, 100% material craft
actually arsenal tier 5 also falls under that category now fuck
sand umbra
yeah
half the weaponry has exorbitant crafting trees
half the weaponry is dedicated
the remaining half is t5 Arsenal weps
radiant meadow
that's 3 halves
sand umbra
no it's two
distant gyro
maths
sand umbra
and even if it was 3 halves it still makes one (1) whole
ancient crow
ah yes, 150% of all scal tier weapons are balanced
sand umbra
shhhhhhhhhhhhhh
the exo half is bigger than the dedicated and Arsenal halves
the result is thus still one whole tier
and only one
sinful steeple
So it's a half and two quarters
sand umbra
yes but 3 halves sounds better and more complete
ancient crow
numbers™️
radiant meadow
anyways, not really sure what they're going for in the sugg
sand umbra
I think they're asking that like
all immediately post-Provi weps be at the same tier of viability
all immediately post-DoG weps be at the same tier of viability
etc.
but when you have Calamity post-ML power scaling that just is not happening
radiant meadow
then obviously
distant gyro
i can't tell if that means "please rebalance scal tier weapons"
distant gyro
or if it means "make scal flexible to more attacks like true meme"
sand umbra
imagine simply balancing an entire tier
distant gyro
both of them sounds horrid either way
ancient crow
their main point seems to be "one weapon being better than others makes scal fight boring because you have to use the best option"
ancient crow
remember spent fuel rod
radiant meadow
and then a few updates later, it's flipped on its head even though it wasn't touched
distant gyro
yeah except that's blatantly false if that's true
sand umbra
step the first: balance
step the second: people don't know how to shut up and/or the weapon anomalously becomes god
step the third: return to step the first
distant gyro
otherwise why doesn't everyone use the wand on scal
short answer if you don't know for some reason is visibility
sand umbra
wand meta (wand meta)
radiant meadow
the wand is balanced to be among the strongest weapons of the tier
with like crystal
sand umbra
also tangentially related assertion but Wand is like infinitely more fun to use than it has any business being
radiant meadow
wand just fucks your vision
distant gyro
it's better than the crystal but your eye is fucked
ancient crow
wand is the thing that spawns a full size yharon arena nado, right?
ripe owl
you need better reasoning besides "this youtuber did it and I wanna try without the penalty."
Okay
Next time i'll try to do it better
fiery grove
MEME SUG *will not be posted in #suggestions-posting * bring 'THE LORDE' superboss back into calamity. ppl need a challenge after scal.
sand umbra
polar grove
pat the fire boi!
radiant meadow
just don't post meme suggestions at all please
summer sentinel
Ben what do you think of my suggestion
fiery grove
that was an inside joke
summer sentinel
First time I ever done it but it is a weird disconnect in the seed seeling
keen drum
cool one sugg is at 93
fiery grove
these mods are everywhere, I cant have any fun at all!
radiant meadow
I did not even realized you posted it
wooden lance
if you like calamity memes go to the subreddit
radiant meadow
because of the other sugg right after 
wooden lance
sorry bout that
summer sentinel
jesus you are right
sand umbra
big chungus
wooden lance
ill try to format that one a bit better
summer sentinel
Just see if you like it since it's the only non consistent way of getting an artificial biome in calamity
minus the abyss
sand umbra
either way congratulations you gave me a reason to like actually maybe care about the resident salad
radiant meadow
okay so
summer sentinel
You can make your own fake sulph sea biome on surface but abyss doesn't count because that's just... different (and you can fish for the sulph sand also in abyss crates). For astral, astral solution is sold by steampunker
all of these are reliable to get the fake biomes except jungle
radiant meadow
Dryad only sells Jungle Seeds in the middle of T3 Acid Rain while in the Sulph Sea. Coming soon™️
summer sentinel
Works for me, just some reliable way to spam buy it
sand umbra
if she is standing in lava and near a Crystal Ball
radiant meadow
Old Duke must be alive.
sand umbra
and a singular Rich Mahogany tree
sand umbra
there can be no other trees in the area
summer sentinel
Thanks vanilla wiki
sand umbra
I mean on one hand yeah low drop chance
radiant meadow
and if the game is paused via autopause, don't sell the seeds
sand umbra
on the other hand plants in the jungle are a dime a dozen
summer sentinel
I never play autopause
Lol I don't like it
You know that saros possession nerf hit hard when mechaworm had the better killtime, dang
summer sentinel
It really is
rn getting a mechaworm is the best thing you can do and worms actually show up properly in MP a lot more now
so it's a win win
wooden lance
yes
summer sentinel
Ngl though I thought snake eyes would do better
wooden lance
it suffers against the hearts and seekers but demolishes scal herself
summer sentinel
it can't beat cosmilamp for obvious reasons
Ben don't touch cosmilamp summoners need the DPS
wooden lance
i thought so too
summer sentinel
I mean only certain things do work for hearts since you need pierce
summer sentinel
it's the reason why mechaworm does so good
wooden lance
not just mech
wooden lance
but its particularly so in the way of mech
summer sentinel
melee: dragon pow, exo gladius, ark of cosmos etc.
ranger: mag cannon and pulse rifle and alt click on photoevis
magic: subsuming vortex and tesla cannon
rogue: celestus
summoner: ....mechaworm or fat yharon child
wooden lance
fat yharon is kinda trash tbh
summer sentinel
so I see your point on that for summoners being meh on the hearts
wooden lance
yes
summer sentinel
I mean tbf you have nothing else to use then, best off to use mechaworm entirely or mecha and yharon son
wooden lance
if summoner got an exo sentry that was good on hearts
summer sentinel
if pole warpers are only doing "that" much
wooden lance
that would make my whole ass life
summer sentinel
Just a simple damage buff will make it better
wooden lance
yes
wooden lance
yes
summer sentinel
wooden lance
w h y
summer sentinel
idk he wants more swords
radiant meadow
okay so
wooden lance
immat is with everything?
violet dagger
yes
radiant meadow
Discord thought it'd be funny to crash
summer sentinel
Yeah but cosmic immat is one minion, then mechaworms
and then a son or 2, there's a setup page on summoner setups
violet dagger
mechworms prob need a nerf
summer sentinel
if pole warpers are just a bit "weak"
wooden lance
plus auric reduces full mechworm minion slot cost to 9
radiant meadow
I was going to say that Flower Boots w/ Flare Gun can get seeds in a reasonably fast rate
summer sentinel
no mechaworm is fine, it should be good, before mechaworm was ok at best
wooden lance
mechworms dont need a nerf
summer sentinel
How does flare gun help in that
wooden lance
auto breaks grass
radiant meadow
you shoot it at the ground
wooden lance
like constantly
radiant meadow
and constantly spawn flowers
summer sentinel
alright well as someone who never uses the flare gun, fair enough
radiant meadow
also works with tesla potion I think
summer sentinel
Yeah but that's work for literally only jungle grass seeds though
wooden lance
dunno bout that one myself, havent tried
radiant meadow
isn't that what you wanted?
wooden lance
i dont disagree
summer sentinel
Ben, every other biome has some way of obtaining it artifically by means of commericial way of buying
radiant meadow
well, my point being is that it's not as slow as you think
summer sentinel
except for once again, the abyss
wooden lance
clothier should sell gravel tbh
sand umbra
even if you got a hold of Abyss Gravel or the like in bulk I'm p. sure you can't make an artificial Abyss in terms of counting as the biome
radiant meadow
If the bigger issue is consistency, then you should focus on that
and yes, abyss checks for world location, not tiles
wooden lance
abyss gravel has furnature right
summer sentinel
Yeah, void furniture and stuff
wooden lance
so it should be able to be farmed or sold
radiant meadow
void furniture is another set
summer sentinel
alright fair enough ben, I can reword it to be better
sand umbra
also SCal-par test has no Cosmic Immaterializer 
radiant meadow
you probably should mention they all use immat
radiant meadow
because this is the 2nd person to get confused
sand umbra
oh
yeah please add that
I know it sounds like a given, I'd do the same shit, but it's better to clarify
sand umbra
sand umbra
wacky
wooden lance
those numbers suck ass
radiant meadow
cosmilamp may need a nerf tho
wooden lance
unless everything else needs a nerf
radiant meadow
iirc cosmilamp is like stronk
sand umbra
Cosmilamp has always been stronk
wooden lance
plus the faster you can move away from tactical plague, the better
sand umbra
mainly because for a decently long while it was the only Polter-par option you had
sand umbra
tactical plague smelly
summer sentinel
Ben don't touch cosmilamp summoners need the DPS
from me Ben
wooden lance
so it ends up being pretty okay all things considered
summer sentinel
don't touch cosmilamp or I'll hug u
radiant meadow
tactical plague jets are really weird
radiant meadow
they are high maintainance but super strong
wooden lance
^
radiant meadow
and for a few updates, they broke with fargo's lol
wooden lance
how
summer sentinel
I remember this
polar grove
wrong channel
summer sentinel
It just wouldn't work, I had issues of them despawning and not shooting
radiant meadow
the bullet code was throwing errors or somethin'
summer sentinel
It was in a MP thing I did with a friend and it was, questionable
summer sentinel
I just remember giggling at it because I always say that if something is broken int he game, then it must've been too good
wooden lance
gotcha
ripe owl
Make the Deviantt from Fargo mod sell rare creature summons from Calamity
Bro wrong server
unreal viper
Dsa not being inferior rtn would be cool.
radiant meadow
It was already discussed.
DSA used to kick RTN's ass in viability when it was introduced.
like I said, kinda sad that the acc is just super niche now
wooden lance
i like your sugg ben, rn its a nohit accessory entirely
radiant meadow
RTN did not
radiant meadow
so DSA was able to get much higher damage since you basically were at the cap 24/7 post moon lord
wooden lance
give it better offensive utility to give players a reason to take the steeper penalty
because rn its worse rtn that you can equip at the same time as rtn
radiant meadow
finally, nerf RTN to 20% dmg boost
wooden lance
im not sure how much that would hurt its viability, ik you sarc
unreal viper
Why are you sugging it Ben, can’t you just change it-pretend this is strikethtoighed
wooden lance
double ~~
unreal viper
Rtn would still see use most likely
sand umbra
honestly kill RTN damage boost entirely and make it just obscene armor pen
radiant meadow
perhaps?
radiant meadow
but what if I want to kill off viability entirely
unreal viper
You can’t really make it have more pen
sand umbra
you don't have to
unreal viper
That actually does something
sand umbra
its current armor pen is obscene
radiant meadow
how much defense do yharon and scal have again?
radiant meadow
okay so rtn already does a fuck ton for them
unreal viper
0 for scal p2
sand umbra
yeah like
just let RTN have that armor pen focus
it doesn't need the damage bonus too
sand umbra
hell, if you really wanted to take it all the way
RTN grants 100 armor pen
to everybody
in other words, raises your armor pen by 100 in exchange for reducing your defense by the same amount
wooden lance
who uses defence anyway
unreal viper
Bruh
wooden lance
its a very flawed mechanic that isnt very strong
unreal viper
You don’t have 600 defense for yharon?
wooden lance
i dont have 60 defense for yharon
sand umbra
defense is only flawed in the sense that one defense point doesn't reduce my damage taken by 1
that shit is retarded and I will detest it to the end of time
unreal viper
Master mode is good for one thing
sand umbra
none of this "more effective in higher difficulties" bullshit
wooden lance
honestly i wish defence was done away with and replaced entirely by dr
wooden lance
when implimented the way it is
unreal viper
Or you’ll get to a point where it’s useless
wooden lance
the problem is that its additive
sand umbra
it does not need to be a complicated affair
unreal viper
If you make it scale
wooden lance
it shouldnt be
radiant meadow
whatever you do
wooden lance
dr should be multiplicative
unreal viper
Or if you make it multiplicative
radiant meadow
don't make dr, a multiplier to defense instead
unkempt bolt
defense should at least round up so that each point of defense actually does something
radiant meadow
or defense just spikes to god and then bosses do like no damage
wooden lance
thats a nice status quanta
unkempt bolt
really doing me like this
radiant meadow
insert funny meme about the sponge giving negative heals
radiant meadow
It was called Fab tried to make DR a better stat, but I broke yharon
wooden lance
lul
radiant meadow
6 or 700 defense did wonders
wooden lance
that would make it obscenely strong
unreal viper
It would make facetank memes incredibly strong
wooden lance
yes
radiant meadow
Fab was trying something to change DR. So instead of reducing damage via a multiplier it boosted your defense. aka, 10% dr would be a 10% defense boost instead of what dr normally is
wooden lance
y i k e s
radiant meadow
so I just stacked on a fuck ton of tank accessories and yharon kind of did 0 damage
wooden lance
thats gonna be a no from me
radiant meadow
it didn't make it into public
wooden lance
ah yes
wooden lance
you dropped a zero
unreal viper
Wait, why did dr need to be buffed lul
radiant meadow
our convo on rtn seemed to have derailed a bit
dapper coral
dapper coral
must've missed that
wooden lance
all good
dapper coral
that was my immediate thought though
unreal viper
But could be changed if
dapper coral
alright then, moving on ig
unreal viper
Ye
dapper coral
wait what were you gonna say?
dapper coral
i can save it and give it back, no biggie
unreal viper
Weps have good variety mostly, but you def don’t have good armor options pml
That period of the game always has felt kinda empty to me
wooden lance
summoner gets the shaft with early post ml armor
unreal viper
But not because of that
wooden lance
tarragon nerf hurts
radiant meadow
I do not believe there are any post moon lord armor plans as of now other than maybe a dev armor or something
unreal viper
The lack of options does make my armor guide boring to make
Add more
Adding one more will help things so much
wooden lance
where tho
unreal viper
Omega blue by itself spices stuff up a ton
wooden lance
fair enough
unreal viper
Anywhere lul
sand umbra
something like rogue set w/ Twisting Nether or a ranged set w/ Effulgent Feathers would be pretty chad, I think
unreal viper
A stealth focused set maybe
sand umbra
or a Frost armor upgrade with Endothermic Energy
an Umbraphile upgrade with Darksun Fragments
wooden lance
if one of those things happen, then youre creating a bad precedent
sand umbra
many possibilities
unreal viper
It has already been done
wooden lance
fearmonger?
radiant meadow
prismatic is donor
unreal viper
Yes
wooden lance
prismatic is post ml?
radiant meadow
fearmonger is a weird hybrid summoner multiclass armor iirc
wooden lance
yes
radiant meadow
prismatic is post prov iirc
sand umbra
Prismatic takes Provi and SW so yes
unreal viper
Penalty too high for not summoner to use it
wooden lance
in that case the door is open
radiant meadow
the recent update added 2 normal armor sets and 2 donor armor sets iirc
wooden lance
is titan heart donor
unreal viper
Plaguebtinger armor
unreal viper
Hate that there’s a dash in the set bonus, can I sugg a change?
wooden lance
[[prismatic armor]]
red stormBOT
sand umbra
Titan Heart and Desert Prowler are normal, Prismatic and Plaguebringer are donor
wooden lance
yes
sand umbra
Plaguebringer is lowkey what I expected Plague Reaper to be at first
wooden lance
dunno why the plague armor set wouldnt be summoner tbh
unreal viper
Ye, it makes a lot of sense
wooden lance
the whole concept revolves around control
unreal viper
So back to adding more post moon lord armors.
And post moon lord options in general
unreal viper
I think that there should def be more stuff out of standard progression for armors
wooden lance
because sulphur sea has a lot of rogue content
unreal viper
There’s only 3 rn
sand umbra
byeah uh
Calamity could definitely use some more armor variety
wooden lance
classless armors tend to shaft summoner
sand umbra
it's times like these it's a shame SI suggs aren't allowed
because god do I have too many concepts for post-ML armor variety
wooden lance
define SI
unreal viper
Specific item
radiant meadow
accessories have a spike post doggo
wooden lance
gotcha
radiant meadow
but outside of that, there's not too many iirc
wooden lance
there arent enough post ml accessories
wooden lance
esa tried but it only works for summoner
unreal viper
Odd that there aren’t more right after ml
radiant meadow
ESA is really weird
sand umbra
I mean okay except most accs post-DoG are just giant tree conglomerates
radiant meadow
it used to be god for rogue though when it was introduced
wooden lance
now only summoner ever takes it
sand umbra
there is generally one (1) acc post-DoG for each major thing you could want out of an accessory
wooden lance
we dont talk about dsa
radiant meadow
DSA talk is over.
unreal viper
Very odd thing tbhx
violet dagger
draedons heart more or less exists to charge your rage before a fight
wooden lance
amalgam + core
some people use it for fights lol
wtf is amalgam supposed to do as an accessory
violet dagger
theres goes your surivability(unless ur nohitting in which case its probs good)
unreal viper
Amalgam is the best accessory of all time
wooden lance
yes
violet dagger
the rework made it good im guessing
sand umbra
Amalgam was recently reworked so like I imagine it's way better now
ancient crow
probably a noob question but what is dsa
violet dagger
dimensional soul artifact
sand umbra
Dimensional Soul Artifact
wooden lance
[[dimentional Soul Artifact]]
wooden lance
fuck
sand umbra
[[Dimensional Soul Artifact]]
wooden lance
im not gonna try again
radiant meadow
so you have chosen death
sand umbra
also what sugg are we talking about again
sand umbra
ah
wooden lance
early post ml suffers in the way of accessories
sand umbra
post-ML in general suffers in the way of accessories
everything is either a material or decent
unreal viper
Not very good unique ones ye
sand umbra
and everything is so jampacked with 500 different effects that none of it really feels unique
wooden lance
the class accessories are wack
unreal viper
And the ones that are good are like, affliction.
cobalt pewter
and everything is so jampacked with 500 different effects that none of it really feels unique
@sand umbra same case with the armors yes
wooden lance
post dog
wooden lance
lol auric armor is a joke
cobalt pewter
The way auric works is kinda 
wooden lance
summoner uses stardust all the way to fearmonger now that tarragon got nerfed
sand umbra
this is true of the accessories too
radiant meadow
I'm pretty sure not everyone just uses stardust
sand umbra
each section's one (1) post-DoG acc has to do everything for some reason
wooden lance
stardust is your best option
cobalt pewter
summoner uses stardust all the way to fearmonger now that tarragon got nerfed
@wooden lance imagine not doing polter pre provi and immediately switch to omega blue
sand umbra
I wager it's primarily for the same reason: what else are you gonna use
cobalt pewter
unreal viper
Yes
cobalt pewter
unreal viper
Use Valhalla knight ofc
radiant meadow
valhalla knight is dumb
unreal viper
Valhalla knight best armor
radiant meadow
but I've already ranted enough about valhalla knight and the other armors in another server
wooden lance
at any rate, summoner needs a pre dog armor
unreal viper
Ye.
wooden lance
thats better than tarra and bloodflare
radiant meadow
bloodflare is obtainable right before doggo. Wouldn't it be more apt to suggest a buff?
wooden lance
then it fucks over godslayer
cobalt pewter
Why not just rework Stardust guardian?
wooden lance
fair enough
radiant meadow
so how is this new one not going to eat god slayer?
unreal viper
Uh
wooden lance
true, fearmonger eats godslayer anyway
cobalt pewter
Maybe buffing other minions in its range instead of what it does currently
unreal viper
God slayer is already gone
wooden lance
lmfao
radiant meadow
1.4 stardust guardian actually does something
wooden lance
the only reason why stardust wasnt meta before is because tarra with guardian was just as good and gave you life aura and shit
now that tarra is dead
unreal viper
What changed?
wooden lance
tarra lost minion slot in set bonus
that was the entire reason why tarra was ever used
wooden lance
tarra was more offensively viable than bloodflare
it didnt make sense
summoner armor is wack as shit
unreal viper
Hey, it’s an armor not being discarded immediately
wooden lance
yes
wooden lance
slightly off topic, hydrothermic vent is actually very strong
i might actually consider using it
more testing required
unreal viper
Has there been one for the bloodflare mines?
wooden lance
?
unreal viper
The summon helmet set bonus
wooden lance
been one what? rework?
unreal viper
Rotating mines
wooden lance
no rework
unreal viper
K
wooden lance
still worthless
unreal viper
I’ll make another sugg
wooden lance
i'd support that
unreal viper
Tomorrow, going to sleep now.
wooden lance
fair enough
unkempt bolt
yeah i see no reason for the ambiguity
well actually not even ambiguity
it indirectly implies it has a negative effect
cobalt pewter
Onyo
unkempt bolt
especially since way in the past it used to toggle a harder difficulty
cobalt pewter
Apparently it was for a mode toggle
dapper coral
prepare to cry mode iirc
cobalt pewter
According to rover yes
unkempt bolt
so yeah i don't think being a reverse noobtrap is worth players potentially missing out on an entire accessory slot because the game all but told them it would have a negative consequence
dapper coral
yeah
...also somehow i missed like 4 suggs because i thought i was at the top but it was actually just thomas' doc lol
dapper coral
unkempt bolt
the suggestion is pretty messy
dapper coral
it's unfocused, yeah
sand umbra
it's not entirely clear what they're asking for
dapper coral
i think they got pinged about it as well
hollow shell
Pinged em about their top line previously, used to be a lot more vague than it is now
Now it's fixed, I guess
unkempt bolt
yeah i agree with thomas
even after reading it multiple times, im still not 100% sure what they want
dapper coral
it's slightly clearer
unkempt bolt
im pretty sure they just want all weapons of each tier to be equal
cobalt pewter
I guess they don't want to have a defined meta against scal?
unkempt bolt
but the title conveys that very poorly
hollow shell
The entire sugg is worded pretty vaguely
Yeah seems like they want a diminishing of the meta against SCal
unkempt bolt
also the entre middle part of the suggestion could just be like
removed
and very little would change
or at least shortened greatly
unkempt bolt
while i agree that having one viable option is a bit constrictive
finding the best option(s) is what a stat-based rpg like terraria is all about
it's nigh-impossible to completely eliminate a meta because something will always be the best option
cobalt pewter
I'd personally add armors from T3 Acid Rain or OD
Wait that's unrelated
Anyway yeah
unkempt bolt
yeah i think the sugg focuses on weapons
cobalt pewter
Meta can't be gon completely
But it can be definitely lowered
To be less dominating
dapper coral
@sly lynx take a look at this convo above and try to adjust your sugg to be less vague, especially the title, to refer to what you want to become expanded
quanta
cobalt pewter
Also @unkempt bolt that bit isn't needed ig
cobalt pewter
radiant meadow
I mean there was one time I just started rambling in #suggestions-voting in response to a sugg
so
it happens
cobalt pewter
It's alright, people have their moments
Hell, I think I've ranted something here as well
unkempt bolt
"Make every weapon as viable as each other at each stage of progression, so that players can do what they want to do." is kinda contradictory to the title, so wording should be made more consistent to make it more clear that they're talking about post-ML stages of progression
violet dagger
do u mean putting lets fucking go next to that sugg
cobalt pewter
But I couldn't recall what
sand umbra
I feel that, Ben
I mean actually not because like I ramble in here and not in suggchannel directly but like
radiant meadow
so like people would sometimes post their suggs in here first
sand umbra
You Know What I Mean™️
cobalt pewter
Thomas needs bigger self-restraint against ranting
radiant meadow
so I got confused sometimes on whether I was here or in the actual sugg channel
cobalt pewter
radiant meadow
so sometimes I added a star to suggestions posted here too
unkempt bolt
thomas needs his own slowmode 
sand umbra
please no
then the rambling is just gonna be condensed into single messages that hit the char limit and I won't be able to yell at people for 2 minutes straight about why their suggestion makes no sense so I'll have to ping someone else to do it for me
sly lynx
I have no idea how to reword mine.
cobalt pewter
unkempt bolt
just cut down on everything that isn't directly related to your title
dapper coral
for scal? or for all post-ml bosses?
sand umbra
byeah, let's start with that
what is the intention of your suggestion
dapper coral
that sort of thing
raven moon
Did not get scared about the ping in this channel
dapper coral
(also, i have the sugg saved so it's alright if this goes over deadline a bit)
unkempt bolt
a lot of the suggestion is anecdotal to what i believe you're attempting to say based on the title and ending sentence
that weapon viability should be equal so that there's more options at any given stage post-ML
sly lynx
I only really started realizing it once a friend pointed it out to me during my two ranger playthroughs.
sand umbra
your first mistake was playing the class that is the literal embodiment of meta-hugging
sly lynx
oh right