maybe sugg to spread them out over other tiers instead?
#suggestions-discussion
polar grove
zealous ridge
i think spooky and tiki being in the same tier isnt too bad
i was thinking during this discussion though
polar grove
i would be fine with fathom swarmer being post-mechs
zealous ridge
that fathom could be repurposed into a post-AS thing, and attributed to corroded fossil
unreal viper
Swarmer and tiki both wanna be the tanks set.
zealous ridge
tiki is less so a tank set on its own
polar grove
tiki is clearly better in this regard
zealous ridge
but the fact that it has leaf wings makes it better by most definitions
polar grove
it has over 20 more defense, and DR from leaf wings
zealous ridge
technically, fathom has 12% dr
unreal viper
Ye
vagrant zenith
swarmer could be post mechs
zealous ridge
but there is the increased defense and extra minions
unreal viper
Doesn’t help it enough tho
zealous ridge
i could go into a hot take here, but if it would be productive is another thing
because perhaps the solution is just moving it
unreal viper
Swarmer yes.
zealous ridge
post mechs, post AS
polar grove
thematically it would make more sense for it to be post-AS
unreal viper
Ye.
zealous ridge
thats what i was thinking of course
polar grove
but im not entirely sure whether it would be good for balancing to be able to use fathoms warmer on the mechs
polar grove
does it compare to current post-as armor sets from other classes in viability?
zealous ridge
its closer to spider in that regard
unreal viper
Uh?
zealous ridge
what, like fathom to brimflame?
polar grove
yes
zealous ridge
im actually not sure
ive always heard brimflame was underwhelming even for where it is right now lmao
unreal viper
Brimflame is odd
zealous ridge
although that has actually changed since i last heard that
rather than post 3souls pick
its only post brimmy
zealous ridge
it isnt a 1.1 mutliplier anymore?
indigo fog
it's not
unreal viper
But I think reaver compares to it for some reason
Izzy would know
That’s a problem with reaver tho
indigo fog
reaver is stronger than brimflame if you're not using the brimflame ability
unreal viper
What if you are?
zealous ridge
also uh, brimflame is post cal so that's something i totally forgot LMAO
indigo fog
brimflame with the ability is stronger for sure, not sure how much though
unreal viper
Makes sense
zealous ridge
the big thing i see is the set bonus difference
indigo fog
i have killtimes with both armor sets
zealous ridge
fathom has a way more boring and less impactful set bonus
because it is really niche
its like, asgard's valor and its crazy extra dr when submerged kind of niche
theyre hefty bonuses
but very rarely are you inclined to base your arenas around water
unreal viper
If swarmer was moved to post as, it would def outclass spider overall, but you could still use spider if you wanted damage.
unreal viper
And it’s fine that swarmer is better imo, cause it would be latter
One more minion ye
zealous ridge
moving to post as has it partially compete with spider, to keep that in mind
now theres theoretically 1 boss separating them if you go for AS first
zealous ridge
weak field
Anybody actually use starmada against yharon is a mad man
Since iirc starmada is made to have crowd control instead of single target dps like onyxia
As we're on this, Starmada and ||Ultima|| seems to share the same theme?
radiant meadow
the shared theme was requested
zealous ridge
crowd control isnt even something it's particularly good at
it does the job
but the attack speed ramp up really hinders it in this regard
because you have to commit to using it for such a long time
okay, so it isnt a minute as ive previously stated lol
i feel like thats just part hyperbole and misrememberance
but 10 seconds is a hefty commitment yet does not prove itself to be viable even at max fire rate
keen drum
shared theme?
tawny garden
aight folks, 20 suggs in posting
tawny garden
ah, no, one of them was yeeted by the bot
tawny garden
ahh, I couldn't get it
one day I'll pull a Rover-God manuever, just you wait
this is getting out of hand real fast
the bot yeets suggs and nobody can stop him because there are way too many suggs in the way
tawny garden
usually, messages that are deleted go to #deleted-notifications, but
the bot that logs deleted messages ignores the messages deleted by another bots
because if he did, then he could be easily attacked
and overloaded with crap
neon pumice
does else think that the vile feeder is just a bit too strong?
faint needle
It's a bug
keen drum
alr
keen drum
rip, thanks for the info tho
if i edit the sugg, does it change in the dev feed too?
sorry for all the questions
tawny garden
the suggs aren't sent to devs instantly/automatically
gray nebula
you can edit the sugg in posting
you can't even do that for the ones in voting
and those are the ones sent to the dev server
keen drum
ah okay
i changed mine a lot based on feedback (and got rid of the SIS in one suggestion) just wanted to make sure
rose jewel
What do the colors next to the posts in voting mean blue/green/red/black/yellow
keen drum
pins
polar grove
blue means its been suggested before, green means its been sent to the devs, red means its been rejected, black means none of those
has happened
keen drum
black?
rose jewel
What about yellow
radiant meadow
blue means it got a ☑️
yellow means it got a ✅
green means it got a 👍
white means it got a 🏁
polar grove
yellow means its got a thumbs up from the devs
which means it has a higher chance of being put in
tawny garden
nope, yellow is sent
rose jewel
Okay thanks
radiant meadow
the side bar is green on approved
polar grove
is it?
radiant meadow
and yellow on sent
polar grove
huh
radiant meadow
because for some reason Rover wanted it backwards
polar grove
i thought it just auto-sent any greenchecks
radiant meadow
which imo just creates confusion
polar grove
weird
polar grove
mega weird
radiant meadow
it's just for here as of now
polar grove
@jagged jackal you need reasoning
faint needle
Isnt sand cloak like really old
faint needle
Or am I dumb
wooden wedge
yeah it's old
@jagged jackal you need a header to seperate your title and reason, also you don't need to spoiler sand cloak
radiant meadow
Sand Cloak is a rogue accessory
it's not super old
it was added in the rogue expansion update
faint needle
Yeah but it's still out of spoiler period
rose jewel
Wait what does white mean with the checkered flag
hollow shell
Implemented into the mod
rose jewel
Ok thanks
keen drum
cool
hollow shell
How's ViralMelon's sugg?
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/741478963456639060
radiant meadow
I already did it
like
2 days ago
and they were told that
they just didn't delete the sugg
hollow shell
Aight, gotcha
Delete, then?
tawny garden
instant flags shouldn't exist
radiant meadow
instant flags shouldn't exist because I did it on my own accord
It had nothing to do with suggs
tawny garden
ah, 
unreal viper
What’s wrong with sand cloak currently?
radiant meadow
I think they just want to use it more
faint needle
Yeah
radiant meadow
an upgrade would be more fitting than the same acc scaling
unreal viper
Hmm
The acc seems alright to me
@jagged jackal perhaps sugg an upgrade to it instead.
Or explain why you think it needs improvement.
hollow shell
(aight he's been pinged three times now)
radiant meadow
your reasoning is very shallow
and you call auric furniture "much more important"
but it's not like it'll do anything beyond be furniture
raven moon
i mean that Silva furniture seems irrelevant as Silva is so unimportant
as i said Silva for non builders is just armor
radiant meadow
furniture in general is unimportant
raven moon
well yea it's just furniture
radiant meadow
you can't make the argument that auric furniture is more important than silva furniture because they do the exact same thing and are just for vanity
raven moon
progression wise auric is always used unless you don't want a chance against Scal however Silva is just an option for Yharon if you can dodge well
radiant meadow
but how does that pertain to furniture
raven moon
Silva has a full set of furniture yet auric doesn't have one bit
hollow shell
I can see where Sandvich is coming from
Not that Auric furniture would be more important than Silva, but that Auric as a concept is more important/significant than Silva as a concept
raven moon
yeah
radiant meadow
the argument still feels very shallow
raven moon
it's just that i would much rather have auric stuff instead of Silva
hollow shell
I think that it's fine to ask for Auric furniture and people have asked for it in the past
raven moon
wonder why it doesnt exist in the first place
radiant meadow
it's alright, but I don't think you should call it more important
because it wasn't sprited
furniture is a lot of spritework
and at the end of the day, it's just furniture which has little impact on gameplay
which makes it very low priority for spriting
raven moon
so why did they take one of the most irrelevant materials and took their time to sprite all of it and not Auric
radiant meadow
idk, because maybe they thought it would be more fun to work with silva palette than auric palette
raven moon
you have a point since i love the looks of silva furniture and brick
weak field
however Silva is just for armor
zealous ridge
silva wings:
weak field
Quoted from the suggestion
Isn't there silva crystal which can be made into furnitures?
zealous ridge
they mention that in the suggestion
weak field
Yeah there is a whole set of silva stuff
weak field
Feel like they don't need to mention the latter half of the sentence
That's not really good reasoning for adding in more building stuff
zealous ridge
i think the point is that silva is mostly just an armor/wings, while auric has an entire item set associated basically alongside armor and accessories
so its percieved as odd
because silva has a furniture set despite being comparatively smaller than auric
while auric..,.,.,.,,
mmmm ||auric toilet||
it is convoluted
so i agree that it probably doesnt have to be phrased like this
totally forgot that was added like this update so let me spoiler it even though the period is like almost over
weak field
||Auric toilet|| is added just because vanilla terra toilet
zealous ridge
yes
weak field
Cactus toilet though 
zealous ridge
a dumb joke
weak field
For the record, there's no silva toilet
zealous ridge
there is no other toilet
weak field
toilet update when
zealous ridge
stop
i will slay you
terra toilet was already a meme hell
as is most things 1.4
weak field
Cosmilite bricks drop from dog is because of a lore reason
Or so I hear
That dog has a cosmilite armor protecting him, as part of the contract to yharim
And that cosmilite armor is made from shells of dog
zealous ridge
okay yes but
zealous ridge
well nothing has to drop silva crystal honestly
weak field
And somehow I feel like if auric stuff is added, most people is going to spend their first few auric bars making an auric throne
zealous ridge
well i dont know about that
weak field
Don't you know that the more meme-ish an items is the more people will try to get it?
zealous ridge
well its not just a meme
weak field
Like terra toilet in vanilla or ||auric toilet|| in calamity
zealous ridge
its literally vanity
are you trying to tell me that most people will make terra toilet before upgrading their swords?
i highly, HIGHLY doubt that
zealous ridge
so yes
after upgrading their swords
im just...
irregardless of dumb ass silva toilets
im guessing the auric brick sugg would be a bluecheck?
it seems like its been a frequent suggestion
weak field
Yeah
radiant meadow
the last person to suggest it
was in February
which for the third time
is before the cutoff date
so technically no, but I really am starting to think that the cutoff date is too recent.
zealous ridge
third time what
sand umbra
take it up with Rover
keen drum
they said it probably
radiant meadow
third time I searched to see if something is blue check
and the last time it was suggested was right behind the cut off date
aka in february
one was on February 29th
zealous ridge
lmao
sand umbra
I can still taste the salt on that one
3/4ths of the time that's not even a real date
real steppe
Maybe adjust the cut off date to be before January 1, then when its September, move it back to March?
hollow shell
(This is what's called a coincidence)
zealous ridge
well erm
hollow shell
Also, no, it was March
real steppe
oh
radiant meadow
I looked up auric and found a green checked sugg in February
meaning if that one is in March, that one had a blue check?
hollow shell
Yes
real steppe
Just curious, is there something wrong with having a blue check?
Other than it being annoying
zealous ridge
nah
radiant meadow
And Rover, this is 3 coincidences at this point
zealous ridge
not even annoying tbh unless its suggested really fuckin much
bluechecks are more just re-assurances that something is highly requested
i cant really speak for devs though
idk
as far as annoying goes
hollow shell
The previous bluecheck move was 4.5 months from the current date, this one was 5 months
radiant meadow
ye, but the last one didn't literally spit in my face every other time
zealous ridge
well something has changed as of recent, that being the posting-voting system
hollow shell
What
zealous ridge
that might be changing things a bit
with the extra research being encouraged, it might be that re suggesting ideas that have been bluechecked is inadvertently being stopped
just because people be like "oh its already been suggested and sent, the devs know so this suggestion won't accomplish much besides a bluecheck"
and they just end up not suggesting it
real steppe
Imo the posting-voting system is not that good at preventing blue checks
I'm not saying that it is ineffective, it's really good at filtering bullsh- suggestions in fact. However, since most suggestions that will be bluechecked are valid, they pass #suggestions-posting
zealous ridge
im not really talking bluechecks
oh no wait
i mean resuggestions
resuggestions are a bit different
weak field
I mean, I didn't see why it would lag
But if it would lag you probably just need to lower your lighting settings
zealous ridge
ah yes did the spoiler period like JUST end
dapper coral
ah yes did the spoiler period like JUST end
it's over in one hour
weak field
Oh yes finally
zealous ridge
ah yes
vivid kestrel
I have multicore lighting turned off on Terraria and TmodLoader
zealous ridge
so uh
weak field
I mean lighting setting
real steppe
I want to bid farewell to that channel
weak field
Plus multicore lighting almost always improve your performance
zealous ridge
i dont think the shader is the problem
weak field
Unless you have a single core gpu
zealous ridge
its the spawn animation itself
zealous ridge
it seems more complex than the shaders applied during the fights you mentioned
regardless it isnt my element
so i guess i cant meaningfully refute?
sand umbra
.
weak field
.
zealous ridge
cool
sand umbra
dom, not tom
the only thing I know about shaders is that they're garbage to work with
zealous ridge
it doesnt seem exlusively to be shaders as well
thats a big brunt of it but there also seems to be particle stuff going on
weak field
There's only 4 moving stuff in terraria
Entity, projectiles, shader and dust
Dust aka particles
zealous ridge
alright technically speaking, theres dust
sand umbra
dust fucks everything
zealous ridge
shader is there in pretty decent amounts
zealous ridge
so would this even be a suggestions thing?
because i could see it going into bugs as an optimization fix
weak field
Yeah maybe that
loud cloak
@dapper coral thnks for approving sugg
hollow shell
How's Alexaa's Zen sugg? Any last feedback?
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/741512626454003766
weak field
Not really
golden narwhal
Valid, ig
radiant meadow
the picture could use a little description still
so it's immediately clear what it's supposed to portray
loud cloak
ok Mackeye's suggestion is good imo, for sure
radiant meadow
minion speed is extremely inflexible
keen drum
i can change that a bit
radiant meadow
since summons can't crit.
In the latest update, summons get a static 4% crit chance that can't be adjusted. So this is kinda false. Crit should still be excluded, but just reword the tidbit to be more correct in a sense.
keen drum
ah okay, didnt know. ty
fringe sky
ge
vocal grotto
Regarding the animation config sugg, the animation is just 10 or so greyscale images with some math in the background used for rotations, offsets, and color.
It does not use shaders at all.
That definitely shouldn't cause lag on its own.
wild vector
Oh mine about Ocean Spirit made it to voting... hope it makes it
keen drum
its pretty far rn
wild vector
yeah, just gotta hope now
fringe sky
praying mine will get in
loud cloak
mine always get in like 12 hours after i make the suggestion
fringe sky
mine is almost 24 so rip
loud cloak
post link lemme check it out
hollow shell
How're both of Piano's suggs?
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/741515774258184243
radiant meadow
wouldn't stat meter then like take up a sizable chunk of the screen then?
keen drum
?
keen drum
ik i was going to change the minion speed thing
to more damage and no knockback or smth like that
hollow shell
wdym Ben?
fringe sky
oh hey it's my turn
yeah it's harder to say how the stat meter can translate vs. the level meter
just posting this here as a reference
hollow shell
You can normally disable each individual informational accessory from appearing below the minimap, so you can just select the ones you wanna see
fringe sky
yeah, I would say then that the stat meter's "informational accessory toggle" so to speak should be broken up into 3 parts, rather than just a singular one
offensive info, defensive info, and misc. info, probably
so things like charge time, damage, velocity, crit chcance, stealth, etc. would be offensive
regen, defense, mobility, etc. would be defensive
and misc would include things like abyss/cave light, hm..
maybe off/def/mob?
might be a better separation
keen drum
i changed around the stats to better reflect what is feasible
fringe sky
i'll quickly edit that into the suggestion though
keen drum
not going to talk much now since i gtg but @ me if you have any suggestions and ill take a look on my phone
fringe sky
finished editing, probably the best separation would be off/def/mob+misc
there we go
anything else?
hollow shell
@radiant meadow How is it now
radiant meadow
it's fine ig, although not sure what stats you'd want to check in the middle of a fight
fringe sky
probably some general class specific dps
or things like abyss light levels while in the abyss, current life regen, etc.
radiant meadow
I guess abyss stuff is better off displayed
hollow shell
Cool
How's Feedza's Extracto sugg?
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/741651490187509760
loud cloak
never lose hope
fringe sky
auto extracto seems like a nice qol upgrade, maybe something early hardmode related?
in terms of costs
balmy jay
I feel like blazing star should have autofire
You can't fire it that fast anyways even if you click as fast as you can
And it is a hardmode weapon so
wooden lance
has anyone said that every single draedon summon is kinda garbo
for example, pole warper does 50k dummy dps, while midnight sun does 200k
hollow shell
I assume you're using max slots for both
wooden lance
yes
the trend is that draedon summons consistently do much less dps than their counterparts
hollow shell
aight
Go beat up SCal with each and see what the boss kill times look like. If you think Pole Warpers need the buff after seein the results then you can sugg they get buffed
wooden lance
thats the plan
hollow shell
👍
dapper coral
hey, i'm back. hope i didn't miss too much
ig we can start by askin bout alexaa's two suggs
balmy jay
Yeah, second one is bad
dapper coral
(the picture could probably be explained more in the zen one but i'm not keen on asking them to explain more)
balmy jay
Since astral doesn't spread
dapper coral
actually, is there a reason it doesn't spread?
balmy jay
And mimics are meant to be spawned underground
I mean uhh
Good question
But I'm not a dev so
dapper coral
lol true
hmm
yeah, the main issue with mimics is that the astral underground isn't guaranteed to be a biome, especially where it spawns
at least for me, the astral always spawns in the desert so no underground
wooden lance
Darksun UFO:
3:48:84
Pole Warper:
3:59:89
Yharon Kindle + Saros
4:14:09
wooden lance
each also used immat, with a build of GSA, statis stack, nucleogenesis, tracers, reaper and COTBG with every vanilla potion, no calamity potions. Auric armour, calclone and provi lore
balmy jay
I mean from my perspective it looks like that means pole warper is... fine?
wooden lance
on second thought i probably should have summoned a caustic dragon
no, pole warper does worse than a darksun tier weapon
balmy jay
Well, saros is also a darksun tier weapon
balmy jay
And depending on your viewpoint so is kindle
balmy jay
It's what I used when I fought scal on normal 
wooden lance
pole warper should be meta, given that it''s an auric tier summon
and i usually recommend that to people because its less noise
radiant meadow
Maybe ufos need another nerf instead
balmy jay
I do get what the image for the zen potion Sugg is trying to say
It looks like he has hunter potion active as well, but in the abyss shrine there are no enemies nearby
Well, maybe one
wooden lance
if you want to nerf ufos, make sure that pole warper is good enough to be an actual auric tier summon
ideally, it can hit the same dps as ark of the cosmos with immat's help
ashen warren
@tacit agate might want to get ideas and such for that suggestion here first
So it's properly formatted and has a higher chance to get into #suggestions-voting
tacit agate
Oh ok. Give me a moment for the draft.
ashen warren
Yeah this is what the chat is for, try to make your reasoning for it clear as to why it's a good thing to be added
Don't be afraid to be detailed
wooden lance
at the same time, overdetailing can make it difficult to follow
wooden lance
^
violet dagger
Anyways about the last sugg I'm still not sure about if it's possible
wooden lance
theres a rogue reforge
violet dagger
That summon reforges are hardcoded
ashen warren
It's defintely possible now
wooden lance
thats kinda what i thought
violet dagger
time to figure out who told me that
ashen warren
Modders have more tools than before
sand umbra
whoever told you vanilla class reforges are hardcoded was lying to you
radiant meadow
Minion speed is hardcoded tho
sand umbra
minion speed, of course, is a trickier subject
wooden lance
minion speed is fine
sand umbra
simply because of how minions work
ashen warren
Yeah so any reforges can't be boosting speed
hollow shell
Of course, minion kb
violet dagger
And Mana cost 
radiant meadow
I just don't think summoner has enough modifiable stats to have worthwhile reforges
radiant meadow
For the record, mana cost is apparently important
violet dagger
Ye
radiant meadow
There was a sugg the other day on reducing subjugator mana cost
hollow shell
Custom summon reforges would be welcome simply because it'd get rid of some of the stats that don't help for shit
For instance, critical strike chance
radiant meadow
There are only 2 reforges that only affect crit
wooden lance
get em outta here
hollow shell
But the new reforges could have higher damage compensation for the missing crit chance
wooden lance
yes
wooden lance
not really
ashen warren
Aren't the crit chances for summoners being able to be boosted in a future update though?
wooden lance
summoner spends a lot of time in other classes shadow
violet dagger
summoner in endgame is a fuck ton powerful enough
ashen warren
Instead of a 4% set chance rn
hollow shell
Currently they are arbitrarily weaker in the reforge game because they cannot deal crits (rather, crit chance increases do not affect them)
Having increased damage will help make reforges affect summons as much as they affect other classes.
wooden lance
so by beefing up their dps a bit that might help the class as a whole
summoner in endgame is kinda trash
radiant meadow
But then you'll have to rebalance the entire class
wooden lance
the only worse class for scal is rogue
violet dagger
Maybe bc of the nerfs
wooden lance
no?
hollow shell
Notable was a fine word to use.
wooden lance
in fact, reforges could save summoner from having to have its entire class rebalanced
radiant meadow
Making it arbitrarily stronger will just give more headaches than less
wooden lance
there are very few instances where summon weapons are theuniversal meta
arbitrarily?
it certainly needs to be a deal stronger
radiant meadow
Boosting the damage on all reforges is an arbitrary damage boost
wooden lance
plus even so, its not as if slapping another 7% damage on the class is going to break the gam
hollow shell
But like they can't get boosted crits though
They could use the damage boost
wooden lance
mind you damage boosts are additive
radiant meadow
But like it's already largely balanced to no crits
radiant meadow
I balance based on what the testers say
And there have been numerous occasions when summoner is super strong
wooden lance
butterflies are strong, but so is effervescence
ashen warren
a closed testers circle doesn't reflect what the playerbase think
ashen warren
If balancing was based off the player base's thoughts.. It'd.. Be messy and chaotic.
ashen warren
i meant the small circle of testers doesn't always match what the playerbase think
So many people with clashing opnions
as many can disagree
Nothing would get done
wooden lance
and the playerbase is often wrong
ashen warren
since terraria has many ways to play
ashen warren
i think it would be more healthy if calamity had the community in mind more often
wooden lance
i disagree
radiant meadow
Balancing is difficult
ashen warren
it is
violet dagger
Which is why I hate everyone hating on calam balance
hollow shell
Balancing is indeed hard as shit when you've got as many weapons and bosses as Cal does
wooden lance
the fact that calamity has a suggestions channel is a testament to the devs' openness to the community
ashen warren
but calamity made it harder for it's devs because the mod as many would say "around itself"
violet dagger
And half of the time they played on expert mode and complain that calam is balanced around itself in rev+
radiant meadow
People complaining about balance makes me sad
ashen warren
it would've been easier if balancing was taken with the vanilla version
As if vanilla is balanced.
wooden lance
chik nerf
radiant meadow
Vanilla has some horrid balancing at times
violet dagger
cough soaring insignia cough
sand umbra
vanilla balancing is no less of a meme than Calamity balancing is
hollow shell
wdym "the vanilla version"?
sand umbra
I can tell you this right now
wooden lance
vanilla balancing gave us star cannon
ashen warren
If any calamity is more balanced than vanilla.
wooden lance
^
sand umbra
sure, Calamity balancing has its own...issues
the biggest of which I've already spoken about at length
but to its credit, it's much more consistent than vanilla balancing
ashen warren
Their way less glaring than vanilla's.
fossil pumice
calamity devs put a lot into balancing. i doubt opening up a new channel for input would help fix any of the problems that currently exist
ashen warren
Thank you Morgan, very well said
radiant meadow
This is the input channel
ashen warren
wdym "the vanilla version"?
you know how calamity balancing is around itself? right if calamity used the vanilla progression as a base it would've been easier rather than make a whole new progression graphe
hollow shell
We don't rebalance the entire game
fossil pumice
that's also true, the community does get a say anyway
violet dagger
I think the main reason calam is balanced around itself is freedom
hollow shell
We don't buff every single post-Plant weapon cuz Calamity weps deal higher DPS than vanilla weps in that tier
that's not
what it do
violet dagger
Balancing around vanilla is restricting
ashen warren
Balancing around vanilla is restricting
?
sand umbra
mmm--
I so badly want to correct you
but if I do I won't stop talking for like 30 minutes
ashen warren
sure
hollow shell
You better clarify gseal
ashen warren
no problem
sand umbra
wooden lance
radiant meadow
There are different standards to balance to
No matter what you choose, you won't please everyone
ashen warren
but when you already have a base to balance on
violet dagger
I meant that if u create a mod and balance around it you can be creative with balancing
ashen warren
it is objectively easier
radiant meadow
Vanilla is a shaky base
hollow shell
I don't think I follow, gseal
wooden lance
creating your own power scale when creating a mod allows for much more creativity
hollow shell
"balancing" is not a creative endeavor
violet dagger
i should probably stop talking about this since I have no modding experience
wooden lance
and enables a far richer experience
ashen warren
creating your own power scale when creating a mod allows for much more creativity
i disagree, as you will have to start from scratch while also trying to balance around the base game
wooden lance
sticking to a pre-established scale not only inhibits creative freedom but also means that game-breaking mechanics remain game breaking
you dont understand
hollow shell
We do follow vanilla as a base
Like I said earlier, when we add post-Plant weps they are around the strength of vanilla post-Plant weps
Some vanilla weps around that point are under-powered and some are over-powered, so we get em into that viable average
ashen warren
but it will break the pre-established balance in vanilla
Again, what balance does vanilla have?
wooden lance
sticking to the pre established balance isnt good all the time
sand umbra
aaaaaaaaaa
okay I'm gonna step out and come back when this is over
violet dagger
Which is why revengeance n shit exists
sand umbra
lot of you have fun
ashen warren
Lary you can give examples if you wish
wooden lance
fair
violet dagger
To balance around that
wooden lance
chik
ashen warren
Laryn.
hollow shell
Okay hang on
wooden lance
amarok
violet dagger
Instead of vanilla
wooden lance
infinite flight thing
hollow shell
What kind of suggestion do we want to come out of this
ashen warren
Which is why revengeance n shit exists
features of revengeance are now in normal and vanilla
like enemy DR
wooden lance
last prism
ashen warren
This topic derailed from summon revengeance
violet dagger
The boss ais aren't
hollow shell
hey, shush, please
Suggestions, what suggestion is this for
ashen warren
idk
wooden lance
summon modifiers
hollow shell
This doesn't sound like a conversation about summon modifiers to me
violet dagger
^what rover said
This turned really quickly into a debate over balance
wooden lance
then the convo evolved into a discussion regarding game balance
ashen warren
rover we were talking about balancing
wooden lance
which is admittedly off-topic
ashen warren
and how hard it is for summoner class to be balanced
I feel like more summoner modifers would be cool
wooden lance
^
hollow shell
ashen warren
done right? summoner can't worst
violet dagger
Yes minion knockback plz
wooden lance
summon modifiers should give +100%kb lol
ashen warren
no
wooden lance
why not
opaque turret
ty
violet dagger
sarcasm
wooden lance
^
ashen warren
more minion crits please
balmy jay
I don't think the shadow potion should make you completely invisible
It would make more sense with the potion name if you became a silhouette
hollow shell
yeah this suggestion is fine but a very similar sugg was made 2 days ago
so, Cody should hold onto this for like, a week or two
so the original could (possibly) be bluechecked within a more respectable margin
wooden lance
whats the significance of a bluecheck
hollow shell
Original gets marked as Highly Suggested in the dev server if the bluechecked sugg also reaches the star req
wooden lance
gotcha
balmy jay
Because being completely invisible makes dodging kinda tough unless you have a good grasp on where you are in relation to the rest of the screen
wooden lance
again, the sugg is fine
unkempt bolt
rip "from the image below" when the image is above
opaque turret
i just farmed so many shadow pots and they're pretty much unusable so im kinda sad haha
hope it gets changed tho
ashen warren
😭
unkempt bolt
astral mimic sugg is yeeted in 1 and a half hours, how we feeling about that one?
hollow shell
Reasoning's still pretty sparse and not very strong but it could be approved
unkempt bolt
yeah it seems valid to me but i agree on the reasoning thing
earnest vine
I feel like there's already enough astral weapons and also more than enough different weapons for that stage
unkempt bolt
mentioning that there isn't currently much to do in the biome would help
sand umbra
I think the Astral Infection and by extension the Underground Astral Infection could benefit more from, above all else
a wider variety of enemies and enemy behaviors
unkempt bolt
early hardmode, when biome mimics are featured, is pretty barren for the astral infection
sand umbra
there's a decent variety of enemies but most of them don't really do a whole lot
unkempt bolt
along with no reason to fight them
sand umbra
and yeah, there's no benefit to fighting them past Stardust for like half of Hardmode
violet dagger
Most of the content is post aureus
unkempt bolt
not a good one at least
sand umbra
post-Aureus is where the Astral Infection shines brightest, if you will
ashen warren
nah
violet dagger
haha random useless astral gun in your inv go brrr
hollow shell
You wanna include some of this stuff in your suggestion, alexaa? They'll help it
sand umbra
you just beat up a giant-ass mech which ended up being one of the better fights you've put up with
there is now a sizable amount of new content available to you including the Astral Chest in the Dungeon
ashen warren
i added "especially in early hardmode"
unkempt bolt
i can tell where this is going
sand umbra
do I think it's perfect as is? no, I do think it could use a bit more, maybe a new enemy or two
but post-Aureus is definitely the best point for the Astral Infection
ashen warren
and i already suggested for the big mechine to be reworked
hollow shell
(you could be a bit more descriptive than that alexaa... but I doubt I can get you to do that.)
ashen warren
as the ai is too lame
wooden lance
i only like the mimic idea if its a miniboss mimic
ashen warren
and doesn't put up a challenge at all
wooden lance
because otherwise the astral biome has nothing to really offer
outside of stardust, which is already piss easy to get
unkempt bolt
idk maybe it's just me but aureus is one of the harder hardmode bosses
violet dagger
He's harder now
unkempt bolt
but not really relevant to the sugg
wooden lance
i love aureus personally
unkempt bolt
early hardmode astral, mainly pre-aureus, has next to nothing
you have the fishing weapons and stardust
ashen warren
yea
unkempt bolt
nothing else comes to mind
ashen warren
and the weapons aren't even that good
violet dagger
if u think aureus is bad with should've seen first arstrageldon slime
ashen warren
spoilers
unkempt bolt
aren't required anymore
hollow shell
Makes convos easier
wooden lance
yes
unkempt bolt
titan heart is definitely nice
wooden lance
||i dont like this||
unkempt bolt
but only applies to rogue
wooden lance
yes
ashen warren
same with the fished weapon
hollow shell
It did resolve all those suggestions for an early HM rogue armor
wooden lance
i think a cool biome mimic for astral has potential
unkempt bolt
so pretending that the playerbase is evenly divided, that's 80% of people that have very little to do in the early hardmode astral
ashen warren
only drops rogue stuff
hollow shell
eh the mimic could have a rogue drop but better if it's not just rogue drops
like Quanta said, that'd only give one class out of 5 a reason to fight it
ashen warren
not really
wooden lance
mimic should have a drop for every class ideally
ashen warren
rogues have a reason to go to the astral biome now
ashen warren
lets give them MORE
unkempt bolt
but nobody else does
ashen warren
right...
wooden lance
we're agreeing
unkempt bolt
they already have a reason
hollow shell
melee, ranger, mage, and summoner need reasons
wooden lance
summon could use a black hawk alternative
unkempt bolt
the regular biome mimics mostly give each class something to gain
unkempt bolt
with the exception of summoner because vanilla hates summoner
wooden lance
yes
violet dagger
SIS go brrr 
ashen warren
summoner is still very doable
wooden lance
also hallowed and evil mimics should have a summon and rogue drop
ashen warren
not a sis
wooden lance
has that been suggested?
unkempt bolt
there's no need to dive into specifics for potential astral chest drops
violet dagger
Getting a bit specific tho
unkempt bolt
just saying that they'd have weapon drops is sufficient
violet dagger
With the items
ashen warren
examples
wooden lance
no need
wooden lance
let the devs decide that
unkempt bolt
if your suggestion was about dart weapons, that'd be relevant
but it's about an astral mimic, so that deviates too far from your suggestion thesis
wooden lance
charged dart blaster and darkecho greatbow are the only times darts ever see the light
ashen warren
biome mimics always have a weapon for all classes right
unkempt bolt
not really
wooden lance
where else
ashen warren
but most
hollow shell
Right, okay
You can add to your suggestion that the mimic's even spread of class drops (like other mimics) would give all the other classes a reason to visit the biome in Early HM (because only rogue has a reason to for the armor set atm)
wooden lance
hallowed and evil mimics should have a summon and rogue drop
unkempt bolt
what rover said
wooden lance
has this been suggested
unkempt bolt
i've never seen one
hollow shell
Surprisingly no, afaik
hollow shell
booo, recipes for already renewable objects
Too lazy to go out into the world and farm
ashen warren
if vanilla mimics drop weapons for ALL classes?
ashen warren
yes i edited it
hollow shell
Alright that's better
unkempt bolt
yeah fairly solid
ashen warren
larry suggestion is eh
hollow shell
Laryn
ashen warren
why give players less of a reason to explore hardmode underground
the drops from mimics aren't rare
hollow shell
I do agree, I don't think mimic drops are rare enough to warrant that
ashen warren
people are just getting lazy ngl
unkempt bolt
you gotta wonder where the line is drawn between alleviating needless grind and trivializing equipment gathering
which is a core tenant of terraria as a game
hollow shell
@ashen warren
ashen warren
nah
unkempt bolt
which is discussed literally everytime someone makes a "make x semi-rare drop have a crafting recipe because grind bad" suggestion
not to oversimplify it
ashen warren
Ah alrighty, was just an idea I had
wooden lance
if i can improve my suggestion lmk, i went kinda bare bones
cobalt pewter
I'd personally make those mimics spawnable manually
cobalt pewter
Maybe golden key + normal, golden, shadow or ice chests
In hm
Idk if that's possible to gate it in hm
hollow idol
myth anvil is a hm gate
wooden lance
i like lary's suggestion, more options are always better imo
unkempt bolt
there's a mod that makes regular mimics spawnable through that method
cobalt pewter
I guess the golden key can be repurposed with 1 soul of night and light each
cobalt pewter
For the purpose of normal mimics
ashen warren
you know?
hollow idol
another thing that could be done is removing magic dagger entirely from mimics so that drops arent as bad (since fearless goldfish drops it)
wooden lance
no
wooden lance
that would fuck with world generation
wooden lance
and poof! magic dagger in pre hardmode
hollow idol
magic dagger is already locked behind hardmode
hollow idol
(for goldfish)
violet dagger
It can be only obtained in hardmode
wooden lance
thats the point
ashen warren
yes
violet dagger
Just make it drop only then
ashen warren
make it only hardmode
cobalt pewter
Again, the golden key can be repurposed with soul of night and light
ashen warren
or pre hardmode mimics drop nothing
wooden lance
then wood chests that spawn with golden keys turn into mimics
cobalt pewter
So make it usable for spawning a mimic
ashen warren
since they do already
cobalt pewter
In hm
hollow idol
wooden lance
we know
violet dagger
Phm mimic could just not spawn
hollow shell
Hang on, before we get too off track and forget about it
Is Alexaa's suggestion good now?
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/741522940432089198
violet dagger
Yes
wooden lance
fair enough
ashen warren
♥
cobalt pewter
Well 1.4 has blade staff, and I'm really hoping calam would move it to hallowed mimic drop
wooden lance
for the record, can i expound upon my sggestion?
ashen warren
sure
ashen warren
make biome mimics drop weapons/accessories for all classes
wooden lance
eh, not accessories
unkempt bolt
the no tombstones example was pretty bad but for whatever reason it was the only qol mod i could remember off the top of my head
hollow shell
Boss Health Bar, shorter respawn times, etc
wooden lance
Add a suggestion Don't that prohibits adding features from other large mods whose sole purpose is that feature (i.e. no "add a config to remove tombstones" suggestions).
Add a suggestion Don't that prohibits adding features
f
ashen warren
yeah calamity is really hard to play with other mods sometimes
wooden lance
grammar is on point
hollow shell
(what's the issue with that part in specific, Spicy?)
wooden lance
its hard to read
hollow idol
iirc Calamity is supposed to be standalone? Forgot if Fab's stance on that changed
hollow shell
It's fine imo
violet dagger
add veinminer to calam 
unkempt bolt
im not saying prohibit suggestions that add content that other mods happen to have, because obviously you shouldn't need to install thorium for one specific feature thorium happens to have, as an example
tacit agate
@ashen warren Thanks for posting that suggestion for me. I was busy at the time you redirected me here. Thanks again!
unkempt bolt
well it's capitalized
wooden lance
because otherwise its hard for idiots like me to understand
radiant meadow
Preventing multiplayer respawns and stopping evil spread suggs would be killed if that new don't was added
ashen warren
It's all good, the idea got put down but hey. You won't know u less you try it.
unkempt bolt
yeah exactly
ashen warren
yessir
radiant meadow
Those are two of the most common iirc
unkempt bolt
imo, qol suggestions should be a thing if they directly affect calamity or are necessitated because of calamity
but not if it's just a nice feature that someone wants in the game for ease
especially if there's another mod that does just that
wooden lance
earth elemental spawn prevention
tacit agate
To me it makes sense since it adds recipes for the Ankh components
wooden lance
deific is an item that exists, so i would agree with making them recipes
unkempt bolt
because the asgard's valor line is such an important accessory line
that farming for it every single playthrough would be incredibly tedious
deific amulet doesn't suffer from the same issue at all since it's requisites are much easier to get
cobalt pewter
"adding Earth Elemental into hote" sugg when, chad amongst thots
wooden lance
streamlining would be appreciated
tacit agate
Rampart is pretty important too imo, and the mimic drops suffer the same things that the ankh ones do, although there are less of them.
wooden lance
earth elemental below the player, same ai as cloud elemental
rampart isnt important
unkempt bolt
rampart is overrated
it's nice, but it isn't a massive debuff-reducing acc with the second best dash in the game
wooden lance
rampart has very little in the way of merit over hote
tacit agate
I think the issue with rampart is that it occupies the same space as statis's dash, so I agree that it's not really as good overall.
wooden lance
it doesnt?
radiant meadow
Philosopher's stone effect is very nice imo
wooden lance
rampart is a generalist acc
tacit agate
When it comes to the dash ability, should have specified
wooden lance
philosopher stone is overrated
unkempt bolt
rampart doesn't have a dash though
wooden lance
300 hp every 45s instead of a min
tbh it doesnt have to
its not the same kind of accessory as valor
radiant meadow
that 15 seconds feels like 3 years
wooden lance
fair enough, you do you
radiant meadow
I think they just confused rampart and aegis