nah i had it last time my rogue playthrough
#suggestions-discussion
zealous ridge
which was a decent while back
definitely before this update
it was a pretty quiet change
i dont blame you
but theyve been bandit exclusive, i think, for a good while
tawny garden
that's strange that it wasn't announced
I don't play rogue so /shrug
dapper coral
looks better now mackeye
zealous ridge
i mean i hardly used gel darts before they were moved to a purchasable
dapper coral
yeah, i'm not a rogue either and consumables seem 
anyways
dapper coral
soon
zealous ridge
yuh is the archive guy i suppose
dapper coral
doesn't look like it's in any of the existing history pages
sand umbra
YuH is the resident historian
dapper coral
YuH is the resident god among mortals
who does literally all the history things for cal
tawny garden
this.
wooden lance
how many times has another exo summon been suggested
tawny garden
this.
dapper coral
EoC summon?
sand umbra
catalogues most Calamity versions and as of recently has managed to gather every single one, thus making the full changelog project go from literally insurmountable to yeah we can pull that off in like a month
tawny garden
no, the most recent sugg
balmy jay
There's nothing wrong with offering alternatives in a suggestion, right?
wooden lance
although an eoc summon would be pretty cool too
tawny garden
There's nothing wrong with offering alternatives in a suggestion, right?
it's fine
dapper coral
oh exo summon
wooden lance
because seabound and head summons are used for a long time
sand umbra
giving EoC more reasons to be fought would be pretty gamer
vagrant zenith
I didn't list all the debuffs lol
dapper coral
||does that count as auric summon or exo summon? bc there's a difference iirc||
wooden lance
||pole warper is exo tier? i thought post yharon 1||
vagrant zenith
also crush depth
zealous ridge
that thing is made with auric tesla iirc
weak field
That's with a condition
vagrant zenith
and sulphuric poisoning
weak field
yeah last tier of ||draedon weapon|| is made with Auric bars
tawny garden
it's an ||assenal summon, that's completely different from auric/exo||
vagrant zenith
and holy flames and ||nightwither(is this a spoiler)||
vagrant zenith
oh ok
dapper coral
it's an ||assenal summon, that's completely different from auric/exo||
||now there's three categories of auric bar thingies, tf||
unreal viper
Holy flames is super weak, nightwither isn’t bad tho
weak field
100 dmg per second is not that bad
wooden lance
yes it is
unreal viper
Not that bad ye
tawny garden
not only that, || arse nail stuff crafted from Aerialite bars isn't Aerialite tier||
weak field
Just don't compare to shred with it
wooden lance
at this point youre doing about 5k dps naturally
unreal viper
Eh
sand umbra
Philo wut
wooden lance
nah, tier 4 is exo tier, not its own thing
unreal viper
5k is really high.
dapper coral
not only that, || arse nail stuff crafted from Aerialite bars isn't Aerialite tier||
epic
vagrant zenith
nightwither is post cryogen
zealous ridge
||i dont agree with that philo, theyre literally gated by those materials, theyre in the same tier||
||they aren't themed the same if that's what you mean||
wooden lance
what inflicts nightwither post cryo
tawny garden
||they aren't themed the same if that's what you mean||
yea, that
unreal viper
||God slayer inferno is technically pre boss lul.||
wooden lance
how so
tawny garden
cause then auric and exo won't be different
vagrant zenith
wooden lance
i see
zealous ridge
well i know what inflicts nightwither post plant
wooden lance
you mean with blood orbs?
unreal viper
Generally debuffs are far weaker than they should be.
zealous ridge
thats what id do to debuffs
i wouldnt really make them better dots
id prefer more utilities
gleaming pumice
Yea me too
unreal viper
More piss upgrades.
sand umbra
there's only so much utility you can have
wooden lance
piss is busted as is
zealous ridge
thats not really what i meant
sand umbra
piss is already strong enough
zealous ridge
i wasnt saying flat defense decreases
unreal viper
I think we can make the damage more interesting.
zealous ridge
thats a pretty poor definition of utility
unreal viper
Yes
weak field
ok
zealous ridge
piss poor, if i may
sand umbra
fun fact: movement debuffs exist but everything is immune to them
sand umbra
Confusion exists but everything is immune to it and it does virtually nothing on the enemies it affects
weak field
Glacial state exist
unreal viper
Yes
wooden lance
thats slowdown
dapper coral
fun fact: movement debuffs exist but everything is immune to them
tesla potion begs to differ
weak field
Confusion makes enemy walk backwards
gleaming pumice
Could be something unique like lightning rod from emode which summons lightning bolt to strike you
wooden lance
thats movement
weak field
But everything that poses a threat is immune to it 
wooden lance
fair
unreal viper
Movement debuffs aren’t that useful cause normal enemies are ez or immune
vagrant zenith
tesla potion is op lol
wooden lance
ill amend my previous statement to reflect that
zealous ridge
i feel you are missing the point
wooden lance
aestheticus debuff
zealous ridge
there are categories that these debuffs can fit into
sand umbra
you can do more things with a debuff
dapper coral
anyway, what is the product of this conversation supposed to be? are we adjusting Santa's debuff sugg rn?
wooden lance
like what
gleaming pumice
Maybe something that will rarely turn a projectile into a healing projectile
zealous ridge
its a discussion sprung about by this debuff suggestion
vagrant zenith
mine I think
zealous ridge
because i dont think the best solution is just buffing dots
unreal viper
More damage for the debuffs
dapper coral
CI is stronk now iirc
wooden lance
if you increase dot, it can become very difficult to balance
sand umbra
I think the best solution is realizing that buffing debuffs is going to be irrelevant against enemies because boss immunities are hilarious
vagrant zenith
CI?
wooden lance
cursed inferno is one of the strongest debuffs in the game
vagrant zenith
oh
sand umbra
Cursed Inferno was always stronk, it's just that Ichor outperformed it in every possible department
zealous ridge
now it has the ||dr decrease exclusively||
unreal viper
Debuffs should be more interesting, but stronger as well
dapper coral
now they're more or less equal
vagrant zenith
also just make bosses not immune to debuffs that don't ruin the bossfight
sand umbra
now that Ichor no longer gets a DR cut, the playing field's more even
wooden lance
the good thing about cursed inferno is that you can apply weaker ichor again
dapper coral
Debuffs should be more interesting, but stronger as well
mm, this may be the point that you wanna make instead of straight buffs Santa
unreal viper
I think that making them do damage interesting ways would be cool
wooden lance
if you remove ichor dr reduction, it becomes worse cursed inferno
unreal viper
I think Thomas had ideas on that
zealous ridge
ah yest
holy flames's intermittent holy explosions
i do remember that discussion
unreal viper
Ichor is better for some weps
zealous ridge
i believe you were there, thomas?
sand umbra
yes
unreal viper
Fast ones.
wooden lance
ichor for minishark maybe
sand umbra
I was the main reason that discussion went on even half as long as it did
because I'm terrible at keeping my mouth shut 
unreal viper
Either Thomas or bluenebula had the idea.
zealous ridge
thomas had the sparks thing
wooden lance
honestly a debuff that did what unstable prism does now would be fire
zealous ridge
i came up more specifically with the idea to make holy flames do an explosion thing intermittently, and thomas added on to that
sand umbra
but like some ideas I recall having for that discussion or others were like
fire debuffs produced intermittent explosions or created sparks depending on strength, both of which could themselves inflict the same debuff
poison debuffs reduced enemy contact damage or smth
Electrified could do additional damage while in water
etc.
wooden lance
electrified is already unique
sand umbra
make it more unique
wooden lance
it does more damage if you move
zealous ridge
does that affect enemies the same way?
wooden lance
yes iirc
sand umbra
water is a brilliant conductor of electricity why does the electricity debuff do nothing extra when interacting with water
wooden lance
because its a niche case and likely not worthwhile
zealous ridge
that specifically is a bit niche imo
electrified honestly is a little better off than others
you gain the ability to use it against enemies pretty early
with things like tesla potion and voltaic jelly
wooden lance
electrified is one of the few debuffs that i would argue can be improved with a straight dot increase
tesla potion is the goat
sand umbra
because you gain the ability to inflicvt it basically at the start of the game, Electrified is actually in a very good spot as it is
equal or superior to Frostburn if you have something that can inflict it
wooden lance
electrified should be weaker on the player because its a major death mode killer
80dps is absurd
zealous ridge
god dayum
sand umbra
you know why that is? it's because it's supposed to be a post-Golem debuff
of course it's going to kick the shit out of you early-game
wooden lance
so make it reflect its new status as an earlygame debuff
sand umbra
no, because that only applies to Death Mode
sand umbra
lightning bolts don't show up during rain outside of Death
zealous ridge
it certainly sounds a lot better
wooden lance
stormlions
sand umbra
if you're getting hit by a Stormlion you did something wrong
zealous ridge
they apply electrified for 1.5 seconds, this is also assuming you are constantly moving
sand umbra
if it was like Cnidrions I'd understand but Stormlions are literally the easiest enemy to not get hit by
zealous ridge
which is not always the case
sand umbra
also Electrified does infinitely less damage if not moving horizontally
wooden lance
you have to move if you get hit by a stormlion
sand umbra
why does it not do extra when moving vertically?
zealous ridge
for the knockback probably
sand umbra
I don't know, it's probably bugged!
zealous ridge
just adjusting the stats of electrified directly wont solve everything imo, in any case
because its still a post-golem debuff thats inflicted commonly by enemies during the martian madness
zealous ridge
it seemed we were moving into suggesting nerfing electrified
sand umbra
but that doesn't make sense because all you need to do is stand still and it'll barely do anything
also Stormlions inflict it for like a second and a half
zealous ridge
interesting idea could be making it deal more damage over time the longer it is applied
like, it takes time to ramp up damage
when moving at least
so shorter duration would naturally do less damage
but as you get later into the game, where it's applied for longer, it starts getting a lot more lethal
dapper coral
i hope this is leading into an Electrified sugg from someone
zealous ridge
spicy was the one that brought it up lmao
i have no control over if they are going to suggest it
they mentioned nerfing it and i wanted to give my two cents
dapper coral
that's why i said someone
i'd rather we don't have discussion in here if it's not related to an existing sugg or one that is going to be made shortly
sand umbra
anywho Electrified is fine as it is, moving on
Gel Darts
...why are these sold by Bandit, again
dapper coral
because funny rogue npc
idk
apparently they've been sold by her for a while
but are they actually useful?
zealous ridge
at least before this update yes
and no i didnt really find them useful
maybe okay for wall
sand umbra
the change was made a while back but honestly it didn't really change much
sand umbra
Gel Darts just are not particularly interesting or effective
at least in my experience
zealous ridge
the stealth strike is particularly underwhelming
i actually found it detrimental
spamming them is literally going to get you better dps
sand umbra
that's just par for the course
zealous ridge
which is annoying
but thats more a discussion for stealth as a whole lmao
regardless
dapper coral
so, is it agreeable that they get price reduced?
sand umbra
agree
zealous ridge
although unrelated to pricing, i think they should be changed in some way as well
but as far as the price goes
yeah sure it can be reduced
sand umbra
seems valid
zealous ridge
calamity adds other ways to get glowing shrooms
so im actually not sure if this is required
by post-plant, its probably safe to say you can grind out crabulon even with arma on
dapper coral
that was the discussion at the time of posting as well iirc
mushrooms are not really an issue in cal
zealous ridge
i vaguely remember
that isnt the whole story, as well
because you need a truffle to even start crafting the bars
which is also easier in cal
dapper coral
is it?
sinful steeple
Yeah mushroom planetoids count
zealous ridge
the crab drops seeds so theyre at least easier to get
and yes, mushroom planetoids
dapper coral
ah
zealous ridge
but those are rng in all fairness
sinful steeple
And if you don't get one just put mush seeds on a jungle planetoid
dapper coral
alright then, lemme ping the guy
sinful steeple
Or a hive planetoid, I won't judge comboing yellow and blue
dapper coral
@golden shoal see this above, and adjust your sugg to say why this isn't sufficient enough to make shroomite bars easily
zealous ridge
a good point to bring up might be the extra crafts that need shroomite
because there are some additions there
keen drum
just curious, how is it decided when suggestions are put into voting?
dapper coral
essentially a mod/tmod/rover shows up and asks people how they feel about it
keen drum
cool
dapper coral
if it's valid, i.e. doesn't break sugg rules and actually may be useful, then it goes to posting
tawny garden
most of the suggs actually go through
keen drum
alr ty for the info
dapper coral
we try to get things to voting after about 12 hours but 24 is the max yea
fringe sky
what did i miss
tawny garden
the ones that don't go to voting are the ones breaking the rules or the ones that have a critical factual error
fringe sky
ooo wing balancing, that's a cool thing to see
zealous ridge
i agree
dapper coral
tawny garden
yea, it's good
zealous ridge
Sure
fringe sky
ihs?
zealous ridge
Calamity has a big problem with making its set bonuses way too long
zealous ridge
Especially with rogue LUL
tawny garden
we like to shorten names here
dapper coral
what do you mean?
fringe sky
like the defense # with the shield symbol
if you mouse over that does it share any stat info
dapper coral
i don't think so
zealous ridge
stats are not shown through that
tawny garden
no, it doesn' t show anything
fringe sky
do you think maybe that could be a solution to the long set bonus issue?
have that type of info show when mousing over that?
keen drum
"Rogue stealth builds while not attacking and slower while moving, up to a max of 110
Once you have built max stealth, you will be able to perform a Stealth Strike
Rogue stealth only reduces when you attack, it does not reduce while moving
The higher your rogue stealth the higher your rogue damage, crit, and movement speed"
can be annoying to read on every armor. I feel like itd be better of a note or something that you spawned with could give you the info
tawny garden
no, I think you miss the whole point of his sugg, Piano
fringe sky
Set bonuses/armor info being too long and hard to understand right?
fringe sky
oh
dapper coral
part of the issue is that they mostly have some general effects and then one outstanding effect which is the only one most people remember
zealous ridge
Wait phi
zealous ridge
Isn’t that more the point moreso for auric
dapper coral
so like, god slayer is revival armor, silva is revive 2, etc
golden shoal
that's allowed right?
dapper coral
sure, sceptile
golden shoal
aight
fringe sky
because I was going to say something along the lines like mousing over the defense total in your inventory shows you "Armor Buffs: +# crit chance, +# defense, etc." and "Set Bonus: <>" as a way to summarize the buffs & bonuses
instead of making it where individual armor pieces tell you what they give
might need some finessing though
keen drum
how would you see the bonuses before crafting tho
tawny garden
Armors are most memorable when they have a single simple set bonus, instead of many smaller abilties
keen drum
can you change tooltips if something is equipped?
yeah thats why titanium is better remembered then adamantite
it had the shadow dodge which was unique
while adamantite is just meh buffs as a set bonus
tawny garden
Isn’t that more the point moreso for auric
@zealous ridge see my prev. message
he's making that for both
in a way
fringe sky
I mean maybe it could be summarized without specifics when checking armor (e.g. for sulphurous armor, its summarized set bonus becomes "Able to survive in the Sulphurous Sea and Abyss for longer, can breathe underwater, provides stealth strikes, jumping produces toxic bubbles"
and then what we currently have for the set bonus can be kept to something like the defense total when moused over for those who are curious about the specifics
sinful steeple
Yeah but the defence thing is unclear, at the bottom of the screen so we don't have much space and may be awkward to code
golden shoal
i've changed it to only change the truffle spawn mechanics
@ me if you have edits or questions or something =)
fringe sky
it would basically be a tooltip so shouldn't it give a lot of room thanks to that?
since it's at the bottom?
tawny garden
annoying for those who don't want to build
a lot of stuff in the mod is like that
golden shoal
well this will make that slightly less true
tawny garden
true
sinful steeple
Surface glowing mushrooms can spawn naturally in space and if you don't get one it doesn't take longer than a few minutes to remove the grass of a jungle/hive planetoid and place some mushroom grass seeds
tawny garden
I never made something fancy for him, I just slapped some mud together in midair
and got some seeds
and that's it
keen drum
mushroom 3x10
mushroom 3x10
although yeah i feel truffle is easy in calamity since the surface mushroom biome is made for you already
civic gust
https://youtu.be/7VnWGVS4y7o would this be valid grounds for suggesting a rework to neptune's bounty? 
(warning: includes bright and flashing colours)
tawny garden
Yes.
sinful steeple
I don't understand this video at all
tawny garden
holy crap
sinful steeple
Other than DoG bit the dust because
civic gust
so just for a less insane pov, with only adren and no funny shrooms, it can get DoG p2 to 30% in about 7 seconds
tawny garden
you sniped my objection there
civic gust
sinful steeple
Mmm yes balancing
civic gust
it's not actually that op
if you use it like a normal person, that is
it's just that this strat makes it go brrrrr
unreal viper
@keen drum Just a minor nitpick, you mention a mid Hardmode upgrade for necro like plaguebringer is for bee, but this armor already exists in plague reaper.
civic gust
but if necro armor has an upgrade, what's the point?
keen drum
the problem is that bone wings are post plant
and plaguebringer is post golem
i decided maybe to make another bone or dungeon related set that doesnt need to be ranged
possibly a melee set?
or summon, or rogue, since spectre armor is from the dungeon, and necro already has an upgrade
sinful steeple
Feels unnecessary, basically every class has a good set at that point or is gonna get one
keen drum
i guess
i might change that then
to just the broken armor + buffs
although melee doesnt have its own set post-plant
unkempt bolt
summon has fathom and spooky, mage has spectre and brimflame
sinful steeple
Brimflame is just after Calamitas which isn't that far from just after Plantera and also the one-off class specific sets are usually far better than the all class sets
keen drum
melee doesnt have a post plant
sinful steeple
So even if it's a tier before or so it's probably better than the alternative
Melee gets a good set post-Golem
keen drum
yeah but theres a lot to do between plant and golem
frost moon, pumpkin moon, dungeon, levi, astrum a
so i thought melee would make the most sense
rogue gets umbraphile
sinful steeple
Also melee getting their own armour set is better off as a different suggestion, makes the wings suggestion feel less about wings
unkempt bolt
turtle also sucks
unkempt bolt
shroomite
keen drum
fuck yeah ur right lol
unkempt bolt
though nobody actually makes shroomite
keen drum
havent played ranger in a while
sinful steeple
Also PBG isn't too far off from Plant
keen drum
i usually fight it post golem
unkempt bolt
that’s when it becomes available
keen drum
ive only played this mod through once so
sinful steeple
It's always post Golem but you're fighting basically every boss from Plantera to Golem with basically no gear changes
keen drum
yeah i dont like that much
i feel melee is left out on that front
since you only get a post-mech set
and turtle sucks in 1.3
sinful steeple
The bosses are kinda just in their own dome separate from the rest of the world, they don't have very big effects on the world like Plantera or Golem does
keen drum
i guess, but i still would like melee to be more even
instead of staggered like it is currently
unkempt bolt
it still means you’d be doing up to 4 bosses with the same armour
keen drum
yeah but better than 6
unkempt bolt
unless you wanna use reaver, then it’s three and a generic multi class set
keen drum
i still like the idea of a unique armor for all classes after plant
since imo plant is one of if not the most world-changing boss (in vanilla at least)
swift wharf
perhaps buff turtle like buffed lunar armor
keen drum
wym by that
keen drum
i feel like post-mech to post-plant is a bit soon
but ill add that as an option
honestly i do like that tho
How many suggestions can we post per day btw?
tawny garden
previously it was 2
keen drum
alr, i just was going to do 2, the wing one and the melee one
dapper coral
that's fine
keen drum
alr thanks
dapper coral
(was it? i remember there have been situations where people post 3)
tawny garden
but than posting channel happened
and we didn't care much if there were three consecutive suggs by the same person
cause it doesn't clog up voting now
sinful steeple
There'd probably need to be an alternative so there's an in game explanation of how stealth works
dapper coral
fair enough Philo
but uh, try to not do so many anyway
(just noticed that IHS did 4 yesterday, which is..a lot)
keen drum
maybe a note in the starter bag macaroni?
cobalt pewter
@sinful steeple where should they be, though? I mean I don't really mind having the desc on phm armors
But once it's on late HM onwards, they serve as nothing but clutter
sinful steeple
Yeah but there's a chance someone switched class or something and they don't understand how stealth works or something
Maybe the Guide could have a quote about stealth? Amidias isn't fourth wall breaky enough to mention it
sinful steeple
She's much later than the other two
And also not very fourth wall breaky/guide like either
sinful steeple
The best way could probably just be to summarise what the armours say
Instead of removing it from most of them
distant gyro
add logs for stealth
cobalt pewter
sinful steeple
Interesting
cobalt pewter
@umbral tendon check #suggestions-voting , I already suggested the same thing
Well mine's focused on phase 2
But still
dapper coral
alright, more sugg approvals: https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/741414699291246673
umbral tendon
Oops, I didn't think to actually scroll down to look since I just assumed It was automatically at the bottom of the page when I went to look
cobalt pewter
Valid, but the way I feel about the sugg is weird
tawny garden
yeah, it's good
cobalt pewter
Like, I'm all for auric rework, but something would feel kinda off
tawny garden
@umbral tendon your title and reason should be in 2 separate spoiler tags
cobalt pewter
removing the magic carpet thing would be nice tho 
dapper coral
needless to say, it's valid but perhaps disagreeable
tawny garden
|| title ||
|| reason ||
umbral tendon
I fixed it
tawny garden
cobalt pewter
Also the default for WPS, a.k.a. Worm Protection System® is 8 seconds
dapper coral
tawny garden
Wi-Fi Protected Setup
cobalt pewter
@tawny garden no, Worm Protection System®
sinful steeple
Iirc tributes to removed features are a don't or smth
dapper coral
there's some don't around tribute items, yes
dapper coral
i don't remember what it is though
tawny garden
[[wikipedia:Wi-Fi Protected Setup]]
red stormBOT
cobalt pewter
I don't need to repeat myself
tawny garden
aight I'll stop
dapper coral
looks like tribute items are allowed
swift wharf
it would be neat for the auric summons if they were auric/exo themed
swift wharf
like a auric mechworm
cobalt pewter
Tributes are allowed yes
tawny garden
yep,
Suggestions that are related to the removed content may be fine, such as tribute items. However, The LORDE is an exception to this
cobalt pewter
Just not the actual things
And yes, except the LORDE, whom I never seen in my entire life
fiery rapids
you're not missing much
cobalt pewter
Valid ig
fiery rapids
i'd say yes
tawny garden
there's nothing I can add, and it's valid
fiery rapids
bumblebirb is one of those iconic calamity things like the old god slayer armor and frous's bloodflare armor
cobalt pewter
Aight
dapper coral
cobalt pewter
Haven't experienced it so can't give an opinion on the sugg content, otherwise valid
fiery rapids
i have no opinion as i have not fought anahita yet
dapper coral
i haven't fought her either, so idk
something tells me ravager is in a class by itself now
cloud surge
happened a few times to me, so valid
tawny garden
yea, valid
cobalt pewter
Ravager is still cheesable in phase 1
tawny garden
also never fought her
cobalt pewter
But phase 2 it goes completely apeshit
tawny garden
yea
sinful steeple
I don't know if a speed armour would work and also aren't bloodflare and omega blue regen and damage themed
Silva armour makes it a little muddier because Silva orbs gunk up the theming
cobalt pewter
I guess yeah, the class armors post-ML are generally safe stuff
tawny garden
((the only thing I liked about auric tesla was the immunities, and now that's gone))
so I could see an overhaul
sinful steeple
Silva armour in general kinda steps on like everything's toes
dapper coral
omega blue is already glass cannon, yeah
sinful steeple
Auric tesla doesn't because it is the toes
cloud surge
more variety is always good
sinful steeple
A lot of the Acid Rain enemies are unique but not necessarily in a good way
fiery rapids
water leeches are bastards
limber ocean
not being able to kill them when you're above water kinda blows
I guess that it'd make them too easy if you could
but it just feels so arbitrary
frail mantle
||does Folly Feed count as a Bumblebirb tribute||
sinful steeple
Like for example why are water leeches almost always immortal, and why do sulphurous skaters get to move at lightspeed when they feel like it
weak field
It does
cobalt pewter
Yeah that specific thing doesn't really make sense, either make them able to be hit out of water, or make them squishy
weak field
Water leeches can have a DR instead of im-targetable when you're out of water
dapper coral
I don't know if a speed armour would work and also aren't bloodflare and omega blue regen and damage themed
@unreal viper look at this convo and maybe try to adjust the sugg to say 'more extreme armor bonuses' or something
tawny garden
||
does Folly Feed count as a Bumblebirb tribute||
no, it's ||folly feed, not birb feed||
sinful steeple
Also why is an enemy with complex bullet patterns in an event that spams you with other enemies
weak field
But it summons ||birbdoge||
frail mantle
||well it summons a Bumbledoge||
cobalt pewter
Because acid rain go pssh
weak field
Also see: Ice Queen
tawny garden
but it ||looks like dragonfolly||
cloud surge
i think the radiation terrors or whatever they are are cool
weak field
Nuclear terror
cobalt pewter
Nuclear Terror?
cloud surge
yeah
frail mantle
fair enough ig
sinful steeple
Nuclear Terror is really cool but it was badly placed
It has complex bullet patterns you need to take slow to avoid but you're also spammed with gamma slimes
weak field
At least royal gel works with gamma slimes
tawny garden
shh, spoilers
sinful steeple
Gamma slimes were added like 4 months ago
cobalt pewter
Me: "take notes take notes"
fringe sky
Am back again
tawny garden
hi
fringe sky
Which suggestion are you guys up to now?
tawny garden
hm, good question
dapper coral
i'm stopping for now
everything can wait for a couple hours
but when we start up again we'll start with ViralMelon's
since i've pinged IHS about his already
dapper coral
mm
keen drum
i've hit enter instead of shift enter while writing suggestions like 10 times
tawny garden
yea, dw about that
dapper coral
i can't do much more sugg stuff for a bit since i got some stuff to do irl
but these will be fine for a few more hours
tawny garden
cya demik
dapper coral
👋
keen drum
i finished the melee armor suggestion
limber ocean
that sounds kinda like a SIS to me
keen drum
?
limber ocean
but I agree with the sentiment
sinful steeple
It's rather specific
keen drum
ah alr
my point was more to have a non-stat bonus set effect
than any of those specifically
gray nebula
limber ocean
I'd say it has more chances of going through if you remove them
keen drum
alr i will then
just removed them
tbh i got kind of carried away while writing them lol
unreal viper
Omega blue is hella damage focused, but it’s not an auric material, so my sugg doesn’t apply to it or ||prismatic|| . Bloodflare is def already regen focused, I will mention that.
fringe sky
Test
sinful steeple
I don't think whether it's an auric mat makes it any more or less of an armour set
unreal viper
K
unreal viper
A new melee armor after Calamitas could work for sure if it was done right. It would need some sort of specialization to distinguish it from reaver tho.
zealous ridge
oh yeah ill talk about that when it comes up again
moreso distinguish it from like
turtle
doesnt this niche already exist in turtle?
unreal viper
Turtle is kinda tank specialization ig?
zealous ridge
i guess you could say that, like maybe
keen drum
plus its pre-cal
zealous ridge
yeah
unreal viper
Turtle is just kinda bad lul.
zealous ridge
isnt that even less reason to add another armor set specifically here
okay yes
it is bad
zealous ridge
i wasnt even around for that so i wouldnt even know what those were
keen drum
ah alr
unreal viper
Chloro and turtle before, reaver after.
keen drum
i meant more a unique one
zealous ridge
if you want damage specialization before plantera, that already exists
keen drum
since every other class has one
unreal viper
Chloro ig
zealous ridge
nah not chloro really
unreal viper
Or ooa mixed set
keen drum
chloro is pre plant**
unreal viper
Chloro monk squire huh
unreal viper
Not optimal
keen drum
he said 1.2 tbf
unreal viper
It would have to be glass cannon melee
zealous ridge
i dont really consider ooa but i guess its fair to say that it could be more optimal
unreal viper
Not sure if glass cannon melee would work well.
zealous ridge
havent really heard that before
i also dont agree that it HAS to be glass cannon to be worth
zealous ridge
i mean
i dont even think it HAS to fit snugly into a "playstyle" or "specialization"
the thing chloro turtle hallowed has over ooa sets mostly, is availability without too much penalty
like, you dont get a set bonus, thats a bit of a bummer
zealous ridge
but all 3 pieces are pretty simple to get
the most you need to do is get one turtle shell
keen drum
i mean ooa is relatively easy
and you have to do it 3-4 times, which is usually faster than mining the chloro
zealous ridge
well you have to commit to the event, is what i mean
keen drum
i guess
zealous ridge
i... eh?
i dont find chloro too hard to get
of course that doesnt speak for everyone
zealous ridge
but overall its even less bars than a full set
keen drum
i take like an hour for 324
zealous ridge
ore?
zealous ridge
yeah thats about average
keen drum
thats how much for a full set
zealous ridge
54 x 6
keen drum
4 ooas is faster, but i guess its different playstiles since squire is tankier
with the life regen
zealous ridge
part of it is that i really dont like ooa lole
and i think the sets are broken for mixing, as well
keen drum
i mean imo mining chlorophyte isnt a riot either
for me they take roughly the same time
unreal viper
Ooa is hard in calamity if you aren’t summoner.
zealous ridge
it really depends on what you already have set up
unreal viper
Damage penalty be like
zealous ridge
if you have an ooa arena and enough medals to get some armor/an upgraded rod
then ooa seems the easy option
zealous ridge
if you have jungle infrastructure and are spending a lot of time there anyways for other reasons, then chloro seems easy to get
keen drum
i agree, both are good imo
cloud surge
does summoner mix nerf apply to ooa stuff?
cloud surge
it shouldnt, the ooa stuff is what makes it not insanely difficult for non-summoner
unreal viper
Summoner nerf applies to sentries
unreal viper
All events are bad
zealous ridge
especially betsy tier
keen drum
squire monk squire for melee is decent
zealous ridge
that sounds like it would be good
unreal viper
Ooa great for mixed sets
keen drum
i gotta go melee next havent done that since early 1.3
unreal viper
Anydoodles, this is kinda off-topic.
keen drum
true
zealous ridge
point is that i do not really think there needs to be a postcal armor for melee
unreal viper
What about my auric armor sugg in posting?
unreal viper
Me either.
zealous ridge
my first thought was that this kind of armor speciality already existed?
unreal viper
Hmm?
zealous ridge
ive heard this from several people, tarragon gets consistently better dps than bloodflare
bloodflare has the survivability
but tarragon has crazy powerful set bonuses
unreal viper
You sure?
zealous ridge
its what ive heard
unreal viper
I’ve never heard that
unreal viper
I know summoner tarragon is better
But that’s cause summoner pml armors are kinda wack
zealous ridge
summoner is wack really
zealous ridge
i think that's just a tip of the iceberg, sort of non-fleshed out version of the idea
godslayer has that sort of all-purpose feel
as does silva
because both of those sets have an ability that is shared in every set bonus
zealous ridge
tarragon and bloodflare show this less because they dont have a universal trait like this in their set bonus
is that part of the set bonus?
zealous ridge
ah yeah
unreal viper
Tarragon has some useless stuff
zealous ridge
the heart/mana star for bloodflare
and to a degree, the decreased spawn rates of tarragon
unreal viper
Like enemies dropping more hearts in death
zealous ridge
however, these are more things that make each set less distinguishable from each other
enclosed in their tier
which is not what the focus seems to be on?
its moreso that each tier's set should be different from other tiers in certain ways
like as you said
bloodflare be about regen/quick recovery
tarragon be about strong defensive/offensive bursts
something to that effect
unreal viper
Yes, that is the idea.
unreal viper
Kinda like palladium, orichcalcum and adamantite in the same world, odd as it sounds
unreal viper
Ye
zealous ridge
those 3 are pretty close in obtainability
unreal viper
The size of the area
unreal viper
An entire period of the game
zealous ridge
and so having each set deliniable by a niche is tough
unreal viper
Ye, good point
zealous ridge
because a big problem shows up in that certain parts of the post-ml phase encourage a specific strategy
it helps that there are offshoots
like fearmonger, and other recently added sets
but these are critically, class specific
the closest we get to an offshoot that isnt that is omega blue
unreal viper
Ye
zealous ridge
like, as an example for sake of argument
unreal viper
I guess the problem with my sugg is that I’m trying to create variety in choices when there’s only really a couple options at most a tier
zealous ridge
(yeah its where i struggle to get behind it)
zealous ridge
lets say we make godslayer into a tank set
just for argument's sake
there is now a signifigant leaning to focus on tank/damage nullification for the yharon fight
at least, in phase one
because now you got your all class set, which is encouraging a tank playstyle
and youve got fearmonger which is for most purposes exclusive to summoner
unless you take advantage of that summon mix penalty removal
unreal viper
Which is nerfed now, so you’ll probably not wanna use its
zealous ridge
which, at a stage where investing fully in summoner is the best way to make him exceptionally powerful, can be a difficult task
and that, of course
oh and yeah theres omega
i cant remember if omega blue is used in p1
at least in current update
i recall it being partially meta at some point
unreal viper
It is for damage I think.
zealous ridge
well in that case, this is good
because you arent exclusively nudged towards tank/damage nullification if you arent summoner
but now you either invest in tanking
or a severely punishing glass cannon
there is really no inbetween
of course unless summoner be around
zealous ridge
so in essence
giving the all rounder sets a more clearly defined niche
sounds nice for diversity in playstyle
but unless more sets start to exist around this tier, it almost restricts that diversity more
is the way i see it
zealous ridge
that is something many people have requested
but it isnt by any means easy, is something to keep in mind
keen drum
of course
zealous ridge
devs here have said that armor balance is like really terrible
limber ocean
how so?
zealous ridge
its way harder than the case by cases of weapons
you have to consider way more potential factors when balancing for armors
keen drum
that makes sense
zealous ridge
what weapons people will use
what situations will this armor be applicable
what other equips people will have
what strategies are enabled by a given set of armor
keen drum
i think a calamity beta would be good for testing these kinds of armors
zealous ridge
weapons are far more case-by-case and are replaced pretty quickly in the grand scheme of things
keen drum
although i imagine they already beta test to make sure of stuff like this
zealous ridge
there are beta testers
keen drum
yeah i grab a weapon then 1/2 hour later its in magic storage forever
zealous ridge
but honestly there is only so much a team like that can do
keen drum
armor lasts a lot
zealous ridge
armor can last far longer
keen drum
for me a playthrough can take 2 weeks to a month
zealous ridge
as previously mentioned, omega blue stays viable up to yharon
what weapons can you say last from polterghast to yharon
unreal viper
Lion heart
zealous ridge
id say the list is short
keen drum
yeah
unreal viper
But not as a weapon lul
zealous ridge
and of course there will be weapon examples that do last that long
zealous ridge
lion heart is viable up to that point solely because it acts less like a weapon and more like an accessory/armor set bonus
armors are hard to balance, yall
and that isnt even all of it
spriting/animating these sets can be a major roadblock as well
coming up with viable concepts
coding those concepts
keen drum
in 1.4 rn people will use hallowed for ML because of set bonus
armor sets should be viable but not that long lasting and i can see why its hard to balance
i spend more time post mech than pre mech
in vanilla
zealous ridge
a good calamity example would be
and i hate to almost beat a dead horse at this point, regardless it is an example
keen drum
sure
keen drum
holy shit
zealous ridge
yes
keen drum
how?
limber ocean
holy shit
keen drum
havent played much calamity
zealous ridge
the reason from what i heard
was that it was a summoner-rogue hybrid set
and the big issue was
that a part of its set bonus was the fact that summons could inflict stealth strikes
zealous ridge
this was recent
keen drum
and statis void sash
zealous ridge
it was removed this update
limber ocean
I think the big deal was that summons could use stealth strikes without consuming stealth?
keen drum
oh damn
zealous ridge
i believe that was the idea
limber ocean
so it was perma stealth strikes
zealous ridge
i did not play with it
it was perma double damage, essentially
for all active summons
was apparently able to fuck up yharon combined with saros
zealous ridge
you seem like youve had more experience testing it
oh yeah the sand tornado was powerful as well
unreal viper
It still is btw
cloud surge
forbidden circlet wasnt removed..?
zealous ridge
not removed
cloud surge
oh
cloud surge
i read wrong then
unreal viper
Multiclassing was nerfed
40 max stealth, ye
No idea why circlet was so good tbh. The stealth only gives 66% damage.
zealous ridge
i would like to hear from someone that got it to fuck up yharon how it managed to work so well
unreal viper
Good sugg izzy.
unreal viper
@polar grove I summon you.
zealous ridge
blueneb got circlet to fuck up yharon?
polar grove
whomst'dv'e
polar grove
because stealth damage is multiplicative
unreal viper
Really?
zealous ridge
that would make a lot of sense
unreal viper
I tested it, and it did not seem to be the case
tawny garden
without rippers
so, dumb question incoming
tf are those?
unreal viper
Goodbye.
tawny garden
ah
zealous ridge
so average kill times being 3 times longer than what is expected
is really... bad
this is actually the first time ive seen a starmada buff suggestion with decent testing behind it
zealous ridge
hm? izzy's sugg?
limber ocean
yeah
zealous ridge
izzy is a suggestor that likes having kill times and loadouts listed
it makes their points stronger because they actually went out and did it
if i remember they were something of a pioneer for this
i may just be talking out of my ass, though
regardless i absolutely agree
starmada needs a hefty buff in some way
because it has a lot of problems
one is that it takes upwards of... a minute to fully ramp up?
something like that
and when its ramped up it isnt even that powerful
it takes far too long to reach maximum damage output, is inconsistent within those bounds due to random projectile spawning, and even at optimal output will not come close enough to worthwhile performance
unreal viper
Speaking of buffs, let me segue into talking about fathom swarmer armor. This armor is pretty decent after Calamitas, but immediately get outclassed by tiki in pretty much every way. Idk how to make it better tho, in a way that won’t intrude on tiki.
zealous ridge
right now it competes pretty closely with multiple armors around that tier
polar grove
was fathom swarmer nerfed in the update?
unreal viper
Yes
polar grove
then its by far the worst summoner set
unreal viper
24 or 28 percent damage boost now
polar grove
for post-plantera
spooky has more damage, and tiki has pretty much the same damage as spooky but leaf wings have great buffs
fathom swarmer doesnt even have its own wing buffs
unreal viper
18 defense with 10 percent dt and 3 hp a sec regen from the wings iirc
polar grove
indeed
zealous ridge
dt, you mean dr?
unreal viper
Ye
zealous ridge
yeah thats a big part of it
polar grove
fathom swarmer is basically just inferior and needs literally anything to be better
the only thing it has over the other 2 honestly is the wallclimb effect
which isnt super helpful
zealous ridge
fathom has a lot of odd traits
its an abyss exploration/utility armor because of those effects
unreal viper
Water boosts for abyss exploration are nice for sure
zealous ridge
but its also dedicated to summoner...?
polar grove
but i dont get why a single tier has 3 unique armor sets anyways
unreal viper
Ye