ah
#suggestions-discussion
subtle oracle
ashen warren
hey rover
hollow shell
hi
ashen warren
my suggestion i posted was made on the 01/08/2020
but vote rates changed in 04/08/2020
does that mean i need 270 votes
dapper coral
no
ashen warren
or
dapper coral
it follows the 170 star count
tawny garden
nope
dapper coral
you good
hollow shell
dapper coral
speaking of which, how's this one? https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/740381539811983450
subtle oracle
ye, cause it was posted at that time. Before the increase
robust lava
For the parrying sugg, wouldn't it fall under the "no grand scale rework" rule? Cause this sounds like adding something like stealth strikes to true melee weapons, and that sounds like a lot of work
radiant meadow
the caps in the title are still unnecessary imo
tawny garden
||true melee doesn't exist anymore||
heady lichen
true melee has been kinda abandoned
hollow shell
It's a big ask, yes
I'm not sure if it's too big or not
heady lichen
same, but whatcha gonna do
subtle oracle
Parrying in Terraria sounds like a chore to program though
heady lichen
it's gone now lmao
subtle oracle
i think there are mods out there that have Parrying? Other than calam
radiant meadow
dang it Rover
heady lichen
weaponsout has it
sand umbra
stealth strikes were a mistake
hollow shell
Hang on one second
ashen warren
yes?
hollow shell
pff
tawny garden
heady lichen
stealth strikes indeed were a mistake lmao
robust lava
Rover knew all along
violet dagger
hollow shell
wait a second
radiant meadow
br(uh)
heady lichen
now we just see if they're getting reworked
dapper coral
that makes it legal, i guess lol
heady lichen
with the suggestions we talked about a while ago
hollow shell
February 29th?
Is it really that date?
ashen warren
nah stealth strikes are very good
radiant meadow
yes
heady lichen
rogue evasion and such
radiant meadow
It really is
hollow shell
That's a real bruh moment
sand umbra
Rover out here playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers
radiant meadow
one day before the new cutoff
ashen warren
i'm gonna bruh for that one
radiant meadow
dapper coral
well uh
heady lichen
ashen warren
that suggestion made it to green
violet dagger
:hrub: momento
radiant meadow
but it was rejected
hollow shell
Also alexaa
The grand scale rework Don't did not exist at the time that suggestion was made
ashen warren
so no need to put mine in voting
hollow shell
Also that's not how it works lol
It's past the bluecheck date so there's even more reason for you to suggest it and try to get delivered
radiant meadow
still, the effort probably isn't worth implementing imo anyways
ashen warren
ah i see
hollow shell
That Don't was added on March 25th
tawny garden
wait a sec
no way the grand scale rework was made this year
heady lichen
also does anyone know what's happening with the idea of rogue evasion?
tawny garden
I'm not accepting that reality
radiant meadow
whether you accept it or not, it's the truth
sand umbra
I distinctly recall this being done way before wtfrick
cobalt pewter
Oh I was doing smth else
hollow shell
The Don't was "- Any suggestions about adding a new boss, new biome, new event, or a new class."
tawny garden
ahhhhhhh
hollow shell
Then it was edited to include any massive workload projects
sturdy geyser
i think that stealth is a bad concept
heady lichen
yeah we had this massive discussion about a stealth rework that is reliant on moving around
cobalt pewter
Yeah completely changing stealth would be a beeeeeg work
But just changing it to be more rewarding is enough for now
dapper coral
anyway, does that mean this one can go through?
radiant meadow
Ozz has a lot of ideas he "will get to eventually"
hollow shell
I dunno
We could send it into the battlefield to get executed by the devs, again
tawny garden
erm
ashen warren
you know, rogue can use some dodge with stealth
heady lichen
uh
dapper coral
we'll see i guess ¯_(ツ)_/¯
heady lichen
huh
tawny garden
that don't is ill-defined
radiant meadow
like those bullets
sand umbra
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/465195069406707722/737744704975667253
stealth in a shellnut
the rework concept is around there somewhere I'm not pinpointing the exact message leave me alone
subtle oracle
There are restrictions with making Stealth work i assume 
ashen warren
with the stealth meter
tawny garden
what does and what doesn't count as a "grand-scale rework"? is there a clear bound?
hollow shell
The Don't is indeed blurry, intentionally so
s'meant to be a catch-all to prevent suggs like "Rework all stealth strikes"
cobalt pewter
This is what I had for buffing stealth to make it worthwhile without changing too much, definitely flawed tho, but I haven't seen one lately
After a couple rereads
dapper coral
any gray-area stuffs is probably on case-by-case, like adding these parries to 'true melee' weapons that apparently don't exist anymore
tawny garden
I don't like grayarea
hollow shell
This sugg by alexaa is definitely close to being too big
dapper coral
it's close indeed
hollow shell
tawny garden
uhh, I think there are 2 equal suggs in posting now turns out I'm in the past
dapper coral
the question is whether it is, but that can be decided by the devs if it gets there
cobalt pewter
Fearmonger no longer removes the penalty
But Demonshade can get one yes
Since it's endgame
wooden lance
fearmonger reduces penelty iirc
tawny garden
bluecheck iirc
heady lichen
just please revert the 50% penalty to 25%
cobalt pewter
But overall, sugg is at least valid
heady lichen
that killed multiclass summoner
which was kinda fun tbh
rogue summoner was amazing
wooden lance
multiclass summoner shouldnt exist without proper armor
cobalt pewter
Multiclass was too strong according to ben
hollow shell
Indeed @pale glacier , Fearmonger isn't a full negation anymore
(I'll update the wiki page)
heady lichen
but that was back when statis belt existed as a rogue summoner multiclass
statis belt of curses
cobalt pewter
So I suggested this to make the penalty hurt non-summoner more than summoner
wooden lance
belt of curses is what circlet is now
radiant meadow
oh ye uhhh
what do we do with this now?
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/740436450881044550
wooden lance
honestly i dont like that sugg much
sand umbra
okay I'm gonna be really blunt here
tawny garden
I think the problem with making summoner a full standalone class is literally that
you can't
dapper coral
do they not spawn there anymore?
wooden lance
you can
sand umbra
summon multiclass penalties in general should not penalize the summoner
cobalt pewter
@radiant meadow LMAO fabsol popped that in #changelogs shortly after I'm done posting it
dapper coral
oh i see
radiant meadow
Jellyfish spawning in Cal biomes was somewhat of a bug in a sense.
wooden lance
summoner is and should remain its own standalone class
cobalt pewter
Yeah I guess you can yeet that
radiant meadow
and Fab removed it
dapper coral
that's only the green ones, though innit? do the blue ones still spawn there?
radiant meadow
alright
dapper coral
oh alright then
radiant meadow
blue ones will spawn in hardmode sunken sea
green ones will spawn in prehardmode sunken sea
hollow shell
Other way around
dapper coral
green is prehardmode now
tawny garden
summoner is a class that spawns an everlasting projectile, how the fuck do you expect that to be not cheesy with other classes?
radiant meadow
but they didn't have biome checks
sand umbra
simple: you don't
hollow shell
Ahh
tawny garden
yep
pale glacier
Indeed @pale glacier , Fearmonger isn't a full negation anymore
@hollow shell PAIN.
dapper coral
so if the blue ones still spawn there, do you want to change it to remove blue ones feedza?
sand umbra
the issue is that summoner is intentionally and disgustingly oversimplified
pale glacier
dapper coral
oh it's gone
wooden lance
how is summoner oversimplified
radiant meadow
the blue ones spawning was removed too
cobalt pewter
Ah
radiant meadow
they were under the same if statement
cobalt pewter
Pog
sand umbra
you spawn the infnite time projectile and that's it
dapper coral
oh alright then
cobalt pewter
My sunken sea is peaceful again
sand umbra
you don't interact with your summons, you don't really do anything else
cobalt pewter
sand umbra
you just summon shit and that's it
dapper coral
coolio
wooden lance
you absolutely do interact with summons, working with their ai is half the challange
pale glacier
I edited the suggestion @hollow shell good coms
sand umbra
when did this become a rant from me about why Terraria combat sucks
dapper coral
alrighty
sand umbra
what was the topic here
sand umbra
somebody get me back on track before I ramble for an hour about Terraria's terribly oversimplified combat system please
wooden lance
part of that depends on the summon because using head summons is piss easy, but shit like recasting ballistas and luxor sign positioning is very important
cobalt pewter
Demonshade reducing penalty ig
pale glacier
I don't think I'll get over the fearmonger nerf
cobalt pewter
To be honest, if we want parries, I'd rather make brand parry to be a global thing with shields
tawny garden
My suggestion is still not in voting
which one?
cobalt pewter
Though it could be hard to toggle considering visibility toggle is taken for shield dashes
dapper coral
unless it got deleted recently
white canyon
Do I need to resend it?
tawny garden
very important
tawny garden
yea, repost it
wooden lance
fearmonger used to be better for summoner than auric if you were good, nerf justified
white canyon
K
radiant meadow
was it the ||monstrous knives|| one?
cobalt pewter
Oh yeah ||monstrous knife|| not healing enough
balmy jay
Is it bad to ask for weapon buffs?
wooden lance
no
cobalt pewter
I think that's the sugg
white canyon
Yes
balmy jay
Because I feel like the shinobi blade is really underpowered for where it is in progression
hollow shell
HB's got yeeted yes
We pinged you with feedback and you didn't return in time
I have it saved if you want it
hollow shell
Understandable
white canyon
Thank you for understanding rover
hollow shell
||Buff monstrous knives||
||With the new update, we have new weapons, and monstrous knives are one of them. Getting life steal early game is good, but only when the life steal is good. Monstrous knives’ life steal is very pathetic. It literally heals very low HP per shot, and it takes a long time to even get 50 HP properly, and it is simply not worth stealing minimal HP. Do one of two things, either decrease ( increasing it makes life steal worse )the use time a bit, or increase the life steal by 2 or 3 points. Whatever you do, please make this weapon useable and viable. This is supposed to be a life stealing weapon, so please make it do it’s purpose, properly||
your sugg
white canyon
This one yes
wooden lance
honestly i can get behind that
balmy jay
Like, I get that the shinobi blade is probably meant for enemy farming, but the low damage, combined with the fact that ||Tracking Disk|| is so much better at that job, makes it pretty underwhelming
distant gyro
hard to make lifesteal not stupid
wooden lance
its been bad since the dawn of time
white canyon
It’s already bad
dapper coral
lifesteal is either amazing or garbo, that's just the way of it
wooden lance
if thay actually did damage they would be cool
radiant meadow
Altix wasn't referring to shinobi blade
dapper coral
wooden lance
with lifesteal on the side
white canyon
I tested it today, and it takes around 19 seconds to get 50 HP
distant gyro
shinobi blade idc slime god and wall of flesh has plenty of minions
balmy jay
I would give it piercing
wooden lance
community should give the player the venom debuff
balmy jay
If it doesn't have it already
tawny garden
yep, the community one is good
balmy jay
@wooden lance or irradiated
radiant meadow
Rover brought up some stats though
white canyon
So....
wooden lance
memes aside good sugg
radiant meadow
on how Community is still better in several areas
wooden lance
how
radiant meadow
but the sugg was never updated
distant gyro
communism is better for how valued it is
white canyon
Will my suggestion get posted to voting channel or not?
distant gyro
it's one of, if not the most popular accessory in the mod
radiant meadow
Hrm, I am looking at the stats and it seems like the only significant lead HotE has over Community
is the jump speedDamage is about the same, defense is exactly the same.
HotE has better Max Mana and mana usage, and slightly better DR (and much better jump speed).
Community has better Max HP, crit chance, movement speed, life regen, melee speed, and minion KB (the best stat).
community also gives bonus flight time
distant gyro
i think that's the strong point that they fail to mention
wooden lance
communism is for the most part worse than hote, only being better in a couple of areas
cobalt pewter
Commu-what
distant gyro
yes
wooden lance
jump speed is more important than most every communism buff
frail mantle
always was
distant gyro
always has been
dapper coral
alright
white canyon
So community got replaced by communism
tawny garden
was for like 72 years for my country
dapper coral
@mortal bison see this: https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/465195069406707722/740648641114406962
radiant meadow
that still means the sugg should be edited
tawny garden
then it failed
sand umbra
jump speed is a cringe stat that shouldn't exist
radiant meadow
They never updated their sugg
sand umbra
fight me
wooden lance
jump speed is bae
wooden lance
it makes wings go fast
white canyon
Ah
zealous ridge
It’s kind of broken
cobalt pewter
Jump speed translates to ascent speed for wings
wooden lance
one of the best stats in the game imo
white canyon
Yes
dapper coral
alright, while we wait for Precision to get back: https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/740451693623378020
onyx river
I mean the thing is you don't need that much vertical wing speed tho
tawny garden
I think that sugg can still wait tho, no?
radiant meadow
the sugg is a bit divided in focus
on buffing astrum aureus post moon lord specifically versus changing him as a whole
subtle oracle
This seems uncalled for??
dapper coral
it's past 12 hours, may as well clean up posting for a bit
hollow shell
He does kinda seem to tackle to different issues
dapper coral
yeah it does, doesn't it?
hollow shell
One of his things is making Aureus impede vertical mobility more, and the other is post-ML buffs
wooden lance
post ml aureus is trivial
onyx river
I mean the thing with aureus is that it's incredibly easy to cheese, and suprisingly hard if you don't want to cheese it for where it is
hollow shell
@little helm You wanna edit your sugg a bit to make it more focused on one issue?
dapper coral
~~almost gave em the double ping there, that was close 
~~
why do you fight aureus after ML anyways? for the bean?
wooden lance
yes
zealous ridge
That’s it now
tawny garden
bean isn't even that important
cobalt pewter
B e a n
wooden lance
tbh aureus post ml should also drop a neat accessory or something
cobalt pewter
Love me some bean
zealous ridge
It used to be frags but now it is literally just the mount
dapper coral
hmm well that's fine, we'll wait for them to get back on that
wooden lance
like how ravager drops bloodflare core
cobalt pewter
And brimmy drops brimrose?
wooden lance
yeah
cobalt pewter
Too bad calclone doesn't drop anything interesting post provi
zealous ridge
On top of other things
wooden lance
and calclone drops nothing, but thats already a sugg
balmy jay
But yeah
dapper coral
i'll let the other suggs simmer for a bit before i send em to voting
if yall wanna sugg aureus getting more drops after ML or something, go ahead
balmy jay
Do you guys think the Shinobi blade should be buffed to aerialite tier?
wooden lance
shinobi needs stat buffs
balmy jay
It is
hollow shell
Shouldn't it be on-tier with Muramasa and stuff?
wooden lance
its been historically bad
balmy jay
But it's weaker than aerialite stuff
cobalt pewter
I actually kinda wanted to suggest bosses to have adjusted attacks post-something
sand umbra
so is everything else from the Dungeon
dapper coral
that's basically aerialite tier anyways, innit? evil bosses are pre-skelly?
sand umbra
nobody uses Dungeon loot even in vanilla
wooden lance
handgun
cobalt pewter
So that they're not just stat bloat
subtle oracle
Cobalt shield doe
hollow shell
m
I haven't used Aqua Scepter in a long time because it blows ass
and Muramasa has nothing going for it
sand umbra
handgun is only used for Phoenix Blaster
balmy jay
I mean, mod progression page implies Skelly is post-hivemind/perf
hollow shell
Valor is boring
wooden lance
handgun is good on its own too
sand umbra
Valor is literally just later Code 1
cobalt pewter
Muramasa 
sand umbra
and is outclassed by Chadscade anyway
wooden lance
calam should buff dungeon tier shit tbh
balmy jay
Okay
wooden lance
make it on par with abyss
hollow shell
Sounds good
tawny garden
the shield is a qol for me
balmy jay
I'll rework my suggestion along those lines
dapper coral
aqua scepter is fun but bad, muramasa is alright i guess but not in modded, magic missile is 
hollow shell
Suggest it
radiant meadow
Dungeon tier stuff is in a weird spot
balmy jay
Instead of being just the Shinobi blade
wooden lance
i might
sand umbra
Cobalt Shield lowkey best Dungeon item
dapper coral
it's basically shield and shadow key which are important
radiant meadow
especially those with immediate upgrades
distant gyro
it shouldn't be on par with abyss
sand umbra
shadow key highest key
cobalt pewter
Not on par with abyss, but at least worthwhile to even consider
distant gyro
abyss is supposed to be the pinnacle of phm gear because of the journey
cobalt pewter
Imo
zealous ridge
I don’t really think it needs to be on par with abyss, you have to go to the dungeon first anyways and basically everything there is a material gate essentially
cobalt pewter
Aqua Scepter, Handgun (and maybe to an extent, Phoenix Blaster) and Valor should be reworked imo
sand umbra
okay spicy take
Abyss gear effort requirement does not justify its powerlevel
cobalt pewter
While Muramasa and Magic Missile can just be buffed
distant gyro
yes
zealous ridge
Eh I don’t agree
distant gyro
abyss should be heavier on anticheese and breathtaking
onyx river
I mean, abyss isn't that hard too
distant gyro
that might just be me
cobalt pewter
abyss should be heavier on anticheese and breathtaking
@distant gyro you're breathtaking
sand umbra
you literally drop like a deadweight into the Abyss, kill maybe two things, get what you want, and leave
cobalt pewter
sand umbra
it takes like 3 minutes at most to get an objectively better weapon than anything you'll get out of Dungeon chests or, arguably, Underworld Shadow Chests
distant gyro
that is true and not relevant
cobalt pewter
Yes
hollow shell
Add new SCUBA unit maintenance system
Make it so when you take damage in the Abyss your gear gets fucked up and you need to do button prompts to repair it or you'll drown
cobalt pewter
But yeah, it's ninja time with phm abyss
dapper coral
stick a space in between there
wooden lance
seems legit
dapper coral
shift+enter
tawny garden
make the abyss inflict NO U on you
oh wait, that's a don't
sand umbra
realistically, it's not Dungeon/Underworld shit that needs buffage (okay it actually sorta is because most Gold Chest items such but shut)
it's the Abyss gear that needs either nerfs or more work necessary to obtain it
onyx river
Or both tbh
ashen warren
does calamity have weapons that ignore inv frames?
sand umbra
yeah both is ideal
dapper coral
yes
hollow shell
Yeah like a ton
ashen warren
isn't that broken?
hollow shell
No?
ashen warren
like very
onyx river
Not really
wooden lance
no
hollow shell
We balance with that in mind
onyx river
They are balanced around it
distant gyro
most are late game
ashen warren
ah i see
dapper coral
hollow shell
You ever notice how Staff of the Mechworm has lower base damage than Stardust Dragon?
frail mantle
i-frame ignoring weapons are mostly endgame
hollow shell
That's because it ignores the hell out of i-frames
distant gyro
hence base damage doesn't matter principle in late game
wooden lance
chicken cannon
sand umbra
Calamity's post-ML segment is the pinnacle of "don't judge a book by its cover"
ashen warren
does ignoring i-frames kill fps
sand umbra
no
distant gyro
no
ashen warren
for you at least
sand umbra
not at all
subtle oracle
Photo ignores em
balmy jay
I have a potato too
radiant meadow
I think cal nerfs dragon enough to be lower tham mechworm at this point.
ashen warren
ah i see
hollow shell
Unless there's some gay light-particle emitting effect every time a hit lands
sand umbra
dragon is just dead
ashen warren
^
sand umbra
straight-up
hollow shell
But I think we purged all of those
radiant meadow
dragon is dumb and shouldn't exist
wooden lance
mechworm does more base damage than dragon
sand umbra
poor thing fucking died like 5 times over
wooden lance
by a solid margin
tawny garden
ignoring iframes just means that damage is dealt every tick instead of like every 20th
radiant meadow
It deserved death
hollow shell
"does more base damage"
This is a strange statement
ashen warren
ignoring iframes just means that damage is dealt every tick instead of like every 20th
@tawny garden yes so 20 times the dps
sand umbra
it's a wonderful world we live in, ain't it
ashen warren
but for an end game summon
wooden lance
||caustic staff|| does less base damage than tundra flame and is infinitely more useful
ashen warren
it is balanced
hollow shell
Also yes Calamity does indeed nerf Stardust to be lower base damage than Mechworm
Forgot about that
radiant meadow
strange hearing that from the person who said "deals base damage"
hollow shell
Broken for its tier
ashen warren
post moonlord?
hollow shell
For ML and shortly after ML yes
ashen warren
wait
onyx river
It's lunar events tier doe
ashen warren
it is kinda premoonlord
hollow shell
It is
balmy jay
@wooden lance you certainly got the idea of my suggestion across while I was still writing it - probably for the better, as I doubt a long-winded suggestion would sit well
wooden lance
too bad dragon does less dps than butterflies lol
radiant meadow
butterflies are just as dumb as dragon if not worse
frail mantle
dragon fuckin dies vs Used-To-Be Clown Car but does decently against ML afaik
wooden lance
also has anyone suggested buffing entropys vigil since the update?
hollow shell
Anyway what suggestion are we talking about?
ashen warren
no clue
wooden lance
forgot
dapper coral
there is none lol
hollow shell
Spawned from that
ashen warren
i disagree with that one
balmy jay
Were we talking about the pre-hardmode dungeon tier loot one?
hollow shell
but, led off topic
dapper coral
oh, alexaa asked about iframes
ashen warren
yea
subtle oracle
So uh, moving it to voting?
dapper coral
were you gonna make a sugg about that?
wooden lance
conversation evolved from that to the point of being unrecognizable
hollow shell
(for, no reason?)
ashen warren
were you gonna make a sugg about that?
@dapper coral calamity has an issue with spamming particles
wouldn't it be cool
dapper coral
i'll leave feedza's summon armor one onwards for later
balmy jay
I feel like Shinobi having lifesteal could be balanced if the lifesteal was only on rogue crits and/or stealth strikes
onyx river
About woozy's it seems to imply you can get mech glove right after WoF which is not true
dapper coral
hmm
wooden lance
what is shinobi was better ||monsterous blades||
balmy jay
As-is, it only heals 10 HP on kill anyways
hollow shell
That wouldn't be very simple/direct to do
We'd have to add new checks to all of the things that emit dust
dapper coral
i thought this was already fixed a bit? aren't projectiles much cleaner and less dusty than they used to be? or am i making that up
hollow shell
We are currently up to Mage projectiles
https://discordapp.com/channels/404725126425214999/541397237406892033/704831322979434496
ashen warren
at least for me
tawny garden
oh yeah, good link
hollow shell
Art server
tawny garden
edgy rune
How do you do my fellow humans?
tawny garden
ah
wooden lance
gl with removing dust from primordial earth
hollow shell
Most likely won't remove the dust from that, just reduce it heavily
cobalt pewter
gl with removing dust from primordial earth
@wooden lance that thing is dust incarnate
wooden lance
fair
hollow shell
once a physical projectile is sprited
cobalt pewter
frail mantle
yea the only ones still needed are the big chungus ones (the Death Valley Duster line)
hollow shell
Name some
hollow shell
Okay
tawny garden
btw HotE spams particles because of the fucking plants growing from your feet
wooden lance
there needs to be a way to turn bloom stone effect off
hollow shell
If I recall correctly
Particle spam is not a performance issue if the particles do not emit light
The reason why it lags is because of all the light calculations
@radiant meadow Can you confirm or deny
ashen warren
but earth sword projectiles have light
hollow shell
Indeed
wooden lance
endgame weapons in general are laggy
ashen warren
yes
hollow shell
So what I think you can suggest (if what I said is true)
Is to make multitudinous particles like that emit no light
radiant meadow
I don't know
onyx river
Depends which one
hollow shell
so it doesn't detracts from the visuals of the weapon that much
tawny garden
then just like
forget about light calculations
make the game bright
always
hollow shell
and your performance increases
radiant meadow
but more light is harder on Terraria than less light
wooden lance
the burning sky
cobalt pewter
As well as Contagion ig
radiant meadow
generally, the more stuff there is (light, dust, projectiles, npcs, players, whatever), the laggier it is
ashen warren
like if there was a config to make these particles and projectiles appear less
would be awesome
hollow shell
A config would be way harder to execute than just pointing out egregious cases and having them be fixed
radiant meadow
lots of dustless, lightless projectiles that linger will still cause lag
like fabstaff before the this update
ashen warren
yes thats what i said
cobalt pewter
Ah
onyx river
I mean, could a config that disables light in all particles be done?
hollow shell
Fabstaff was omega crust
ashen warren
projectiles and particles appear less
cobalt pewter
Imma go mage later
ashen warren
no light issues
radiant meadow
projectiles not lasting as long will cause your dps to drop though
wooden lance
has anyone suggested buffing entropys vigil since the update?
it still doesnt do great damage
cobalt pewter
Also, what was the last sugg reviewed?
ashen warren
projectiles not lasting as long will cause your dps to drop though
will removing the sprite of the projectile help?
hollow shell
"last sugg"?
cobalt pewter
What sugg are we talking about now
dapper coral
i'll review your summoner-armor one in a bit feedza
cobalt pewter
ashen warren
it is kinda hard to word
hollow shell
Indeed
wooden lance
i meant as of this update
cobalt pewter
No
wooden lance
because its still not great
cobalt pewter
As far as I see
hollow shell
Give us the DPS numbers and boss kill times, Spicy
dapper coral
is this implemented for 1.4.5.001? or for a future update? is the question
hollow shell
when you can.
hollow shell
(for Vigil and other on-tier weapons)
ashen warren
so what if there was a slide in config that controls how much particles and projectiles appear
with percentage
radiant meadow
that sounds
ashen warren
like the projectiles appear less
radiant meadow
like an inordinate amount of work
dapper coral
that sounds painful
ashen warren
but they still deal damage
hollow shell
alexaa my boy I keep sayin that would be aids to implement onto every particle (and especially projectile) emitting effect
onyx river
I mean, asking for a switch would ahve much more chance to be implemented prolly
ashen warren
ah i see
hollow shell
Especially projectiles because that would cause MP syncing issues and balance issues
ashen warren
so how hard is it to make a config that removes the light and sprite of every particles and projectile
Especially projectiles because that would cause MP syncing issues and balance issues
they just don't appear for the client side
subtle oracle
And we know how Stable MP already is 
ashen warren
not server side
dapper coral
very
ashen warren
yeah i can see that 😭
does playing many sound effects at the same time cause frame issues?
hollow shell
Probably not
Even if there was a glitch where a new sound plays/loops every frame (as sometimes happens) it's usually other factors that are causing significantly more lag in that instance
ashen warren
i've seen some streamer burn their gpu because of a bot that plays a sound effect everytime the chat types a command
hollow shell
i.e. a bouncing projectile hitting walls over and over, making bump sounds and generating particles
tis the particles then that lag it
dapper coral
but yeah that doesn't make sense lol
ashen warren
it opens the audio file every time the bot triggers
sand umbra
graphics processing unit
tawny garden
I volunteer not seeing this channel anymore
sand umbra
graphics
hollow shell
That's probably not the sound itself but all the GUI and file processing
ashen warren
yeah prob miss heard that
subtle oracle
cya Philo
ashen warren
adios
dapper coral
so basically sound and stuffs don't lag computer
dapper coral
unless you are literally making de musics, the musics don't lag
dapper coral
okay
hollow shell
Good observation
dapper coral
and?
ashen warren
but these uses come in form of ammo
what if calamity adds more unique types of ammo
hollow shell
We need more dart weapons than we need more dart ammo
dapper coral
also this
hollow shell
There is literally more dart ammo than there are weapons (iirc)
dapper coral
there are like 3-4 dart weapons
ashen warren
perfect balance
hollow shell
That's why this sugg was made
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/739395304876671066
hollow shell
that was a joke iirc, lol
hollow shell
The point being that would be absolutely impossible
ashen warren
the dart rifles has one of the highest base damage for a gun in vanilla
hollow shell
Because dart progression stops dead pre-ML
ashen warren
RIP
dapper coral
bold of you to call it a progression, tbf
ashen warren
i mean if the boss doesn't heal
dapper coral
but i suppose that's the point behind the sugg
ashen warren
IT IS DOABLE
hollow shell
Unless it's a timed boss
which granted, Yharon isn't
Prov technically isn't anymore either
It's just even harder
cobalt pewter
EoL generally despawns after an entire day cycle
hollow shell
She runs away if night falls during the day fight
cobalt pewter
So night, day, then night again
If spawned at night
But day, yeah, when dusk comes
hollow shell
@night trellis Don't forget about: ||https://calamitymod.gamepedia.com/Desert_Prowler_armor||
night trellis
@hollow shell True, I'll change my post, but I feel my point still stands
hollow shell
Yeah, it does, and I agree
night trellis
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one.
ashen warren
Desert Prowler armor is vanity
hollow shell
It isn't but thanks for sharing
night trellis
It does look great, but like "Increased ranged damage by 1"? That's a bit weak IMO.
night trellis
True
hollow shell
And it's very good for rapid fire weapons
distant gyro
you kill like 10 vultures for it
sand umbra
yeah
ashen warren
it is like how +4 defense is better than +4% defense
sand umbra
that’s better than any percentage bonus
distant gyro
you may have noticed that calamity can't offer a lot to pre hardmode ranger
sand umbra
at that stage of the game
night trellis
Now that you say these things, I understand your points
distant gyro
because ranger vanilla fuckin won already
unreal viper
Flat 1 benefits gun and ammo
cobalt pewter
Yeah, flat bonuses are better early game
night trellis
But I still feel a +2 would make more sense
unreal viper
But it’s still probably worse than victide.
ashen warren
ranger vanilla is for the very very smooth brain
ashen warren
a joke
hollow shell
talkin to Alba
night trellis
Is victide pre-boss?
hollow shell
It is, technically
cobalt pewter
Yes
ashen warren
yea
unreal viper
Techically
ashen warren
always has been
night trellis
Well then...
cobalt pewter
You can farm cnidrions for those without killing DS
unreal viper
Prowler is much easier to get tho
hollow shell
Gotta slaughter a buncha Cnids
sand umbra
cnidrion moment
ashen warren
like how the cell phone is prehardmode
hollow shell
Victide is indeed harder to get than Prowler
unreal viper
I think that melee specifically needs more options
sturdy geyser
but like killing desert scourge is easier than farming cnidirions i believe
cobalt pewter
Prowler is something you can use as you murder some desert seahorses ig
unreal viper
It only really has molten
night trellis
I think it would make sense to move Prowler to post DS and buff it a bit
sand umbra
yet Prowler ends up being objectively better with low base damage weps like Minishark
what’s Minishark’s base damage again
sturdy geyser
6?
sand umbra
7? 8?
hollow shell
Why would that "make sense" Alba?
cobalt pewter
6?
night trellis
7?
unreal viper
6 bullets are 8
sand umbra
that sounds right
sand umbra
yeah that’s about a 14% bonus, assuming weapon and ammo are both boosted, for Minishark
unreal viper
Ye
sand umbra
given Minishark is already a hella strong weapon, that is extremely good
night trellis
@hollow shell Seeing as Victide is also pre-boss, having the Prowler armor just kind of *exist *only to get replaced almost immediately feels a bit disappointing, especially with that name, I feel like DS should have something to do with it
unreal viper
Worse than victide due to the set bonus.
Prowler is an ez to get class armor, I like it
Looks cool too.
hollow shell
Prowler's the kinda armor that helps you beat DS
night trellis
Makes sense
night trellis
Given that, I think my original point of more pre-hardmode class sets makes more sense, at least thematically and progression wise, given the current placement of the Prowler armor
cobalt pewter
I wonder how effective the Sandstorm spawned by the armor would be against ds
subtle oracle
iirc, Snow ruffian and Prowler are comparable?
hollow shell
@devout basin You can't make suggestions about 1.4
unreal viper
I only got to appear consistently with the p90
cobalt pewter
I never used ruffian
hollow shell
That's future content.
unreal viper
Yeah, they are
devout basin
oh, sorry
hollow shell
Wait for Calamity and tMod to update to 1.4 before suggesting about it.
devout basin
should i remove it?
hollow shell
Yes
unreal viper
Ye
cobalt pewter
Isn't minishark only a couple points higher than p90 in use time
devout basin
removed
unreal viper
Save it if you want.
cobalt pewter
I forgot how fast is mini
faint needle
When 1.4 launches you could resuggest it but it's kind of a sis I think
cobalt pewter
Harry
devout basin
eh, it aint the most thoughtful idea, p sure i could think of a better idea when time comes anyways
faint needle
By that I mean calamity 1.4
unreal viper
P90 is 2 but effectively has a use time of 1.
wooden lance
so i tested out summons against plantera, vigil is pretty middle of the pack
Vigil:
1k-1.4k dummy dps
2:46:84 plantera (ripperless)
Brimseeker:
1.2k-1.7k dummy dps
2:55:43 plantera (ripperless)
Deepsea:1.1k dummy dps
2:40:13 plantera (ripperless)
Divinity:
1.3k-2k dummy dps
2:03.37 plantera (ripperless)
Frostspark, bat wings at night, nuclear rod, jelly charged battery, voltaic jelly, summoner emblem
yknow i forgot about the new post prime summon
cobalt pewter
Brimseeker is that slow?
night trellis
Quick general final thoughts, should there be more pre-hardmode class specific armors?
hollow shell
So uhh
Vigil seems fine ig
Might be a bit underpowered cuz it's later than those other weps and is about equal DPS
wooden lance
yeah thats what my thought is too
if deepsea does better than that might not be the best
although i could have gotten bad rng with vigil and good rng with deepsea
who knows, i only did one test each
hollow shell
perhaps
wooden lance
yikes looks like ||mounted scanner|| sucks against plant
night trellis
yikes looks like ||mounted scanner|| sucks
against plant
@wooden lance ⸮
wooden lance
fair enough, dummy dps looked great then i saw it kill plant in 3:53:72 even with ||caustic staff|| summoned and standing absolutey still
plantation staff is something you summon with your other minions because you can only have one
its kinda low key by definition
hence why you dont hear about it
frail mantle
plant is a support minion ye
unreal viper
I def think that phm could use more class specific armors. Rogue and mage def have a good variety of them, but I think the other classes could use some. Melee only really has molten, as shadow is kinda pointless, ranger only has 2 with necro being garbage, and summoner only has one. They could def need more stuff, and I’m all for making pts more unique for each class. @night trellis
night trellis
I agree, but I'd like to add something about vanilla armors; that is, I feel like modded items should generally incentivize being used over vanilla things of the same tier, else having that item in the mod would feel pointless. Overall, the vanilla armors are great, but having more modded armors for all classes would round out the early game so much more and make it more fun and unique to play. (also mage is my favorite and I want a calamity mage armor) @unreal viper
ashen warren
Before I post has there been a suggestion for rewards for beating bosses enraged?
sturdy geyser
enrages are punishments to the player for doing something wrong, they shouldn't be rewarded
dapper coral
well let's see the reasoning first
ashen warren
It’s more like a challenge
dapper coral
then we can decide whether it makes sense
sturdy geyser
if it is a challenge then it isn't an enrage
floral jewel
Night provi exist and it drop a reward, don't see why other enraged boss can't
sturdy geyser
I would argue night provi is an added challenge, and not an enragea
quiet elm
enrages are punishments to the player for doing something wrong, they shouldn't be rewarded
Well look at dungeon guardian as an example. You aren’t supposed to wander the dungeon before killing skeletron so as punishment, it kills you. Yet there is a reward for killing dungeon gaurdian
ashen warren
She is enraged though
sturdy geyser
also keep in mind that provi's reward is a dye
floral jewel
Same for adult eiodolon wyrm, the reward for killing these punishment already implemented
ashen warren
Also why are there limitations anyway?
For bossing
If they can beat the limitations even
That’s something one can be proud of
And a reward can do that
Tbh
dapper coral
i mean, sure. but at the same time, beating the limitations of a boss just means that you went outside the range that the boss is meant to be fought, which isn't really subject to reward imo
ashen warren
We can start looking at these limitations as a higher level of challenge
Than a punishment
For the fun of the game
night trellis
"Enrages" as they exist (e.g. for the player running out time or leaving the biome) I feel should not be rewarded because those mechanics only exist to encourage the player for playing the "right way" (read: the way the boss was designed). By adding a reward, it instead incentivizes players to purposefully breaking the "rules" of the boss and just adding another challenge is not something we need, seeing as we already have so many things like Rev and Death and Iron Heart and Defiled etc
quiet elm
Well then shouldn’t there be no reward for killing adult eidolon wyrm and dungeon guardian
floral jewel
I think it would be ok if the reward as mostly just vantiy and not op weapon, like how night providence just drop dye
sturdy geyser
death especially is a higher level of challenge
floral jewel
and DG drop pet right? iirc
quiet elm
Death isn’t that hard imo
night trellis
In addition, just adding another challenge will make those players who fight the bosses the correct way feel like they are missing out on something by playing the game the way it was intended
onyx river
Also making a specific and unique reward for each enrage would prolly be too much of a wok for a sugg
quiet elm
Well I feel like if they were to drop anything it should be purely cosmetic, (pets, vanity, dye)
onyx river
Yes, but coming up with original ideas wich also feel not completely random is a major pain
night trellis
I think my points still stand; having a reward, no matter what it is, only encourages players to play in a way not intended for the original boss and would probably only lead to frustration, especially for those who really want those trophies of beating challenges having just another arbitrary thing to do
quiet elm
Sir albatoris, the pure existence of the bone key goes against that
dapper coral
essentially the consensus seems to be that you shouldn't be rewarded for playing outside the scope of a boss, and if you were to be rewarded, it should be something purely vanity/aesthetic @ashen warren
onyx river
Ye, "challenges" like that are every completionist's worst nightmare
dapper coral
and also that it would be a hell of a lot of work for devs to do
quiet elm
Yeah but it still encourages people to play in a way not intended
weak field
What challenge?
dapper coral
defeating bosses enraged
weak field
Oh
ashen warren
We can make it that defeating bosses enraged should be after defeating the boss originally
night trellis
The dungeon guardian, even if it does exist as a reward does not invalidate the "enrageedness" of the dungeon guardian. The guardian still serves it purpose; to keep people out of the dungeon pre-skeletron. By adding a reward to enraged bosses who's enrages only exist to prevent players from fighting them incorrectly would only serve to undermine those discouragements.
weak field
Eh, could definitely have some cosmetic reward
ashen warren
Or after a certain progression of events.
hollow shell
This looks like a fun conversation
ashen warren
The reward for it.
night trellis
Oh, conversations are always fun here...
hollow shell
LiPengun can make his suggestion
If you disagree, don't star it
dapper coral
it's a time, rover
quiet elm
Even if its not intended to ever fight an enraged boss, doing so would take a lot of effort for nothing at this point
night trellis
I feel like rewards for "breaking the rules" of a boss fight are not a good thing.
hollow shell
Don't star it.
sturdy geyser
the suggestion is valid and they can make it
night trellis
Yeah, LiPengun can make his suggestion, but also asked for thoughts
I personally feel like it would just be a bad idea
quiet elm
It’d be nice to claim that you killed an enraged yharon with actual evidence in the form of a pet/vanity
Cause killing enraged bosses take effort
night trellis
unless you cheat it
onyx river
Let's be honest, if you're killing enraged yharon, you're prolly recording it
quiet elm
True
ashen warren
It’s more like people who want to push themselves really.
weak field
And they can always just do it without reward
night trellis
If you really want to push yourself, there already exist plenty of difficulty sliders for bosses
weak field
It's a cosmetic reward anyway
onyx river
People who like to push themselves usually don't care for the reward, as they're after the challenge anyways
weak field
^
quiet elm
Yeah ok that is true
night trellis
I just feel adding a reward would undermine the very nature of the enrage mechanic
ashen warren
Ye I guess.
weak field
Enrage mechanic exist initially to prevent the player from cheesing the boss too much
night trellis
They also exist to (try to) ensure the players fight the boss in the intended way
by punishing them for straying out of bounds or whatever
night trellis
Of course, people will always find more and more challenges no matter what we do to encourage/discourage them
night trellis
people be crazy
ashen warren
I’ve been wondering though.
The point of enraging doesn’t make much sense tbh.
Even the concept of cheesing the boss should be punished,
That can be avoided
onyx river
I'm not sure what you mean
ashen warren
The concept of cheesing the boss too much is a little vague.
Tbh.
only a handful of bosses in terraria enrage
and all of them are optional
night trellis
Well, now that 1.4 is out, more bosses enrage
ashen warren
only 1?
night trellis
Well... that's more
night trellis
Yeah, people were cheesing it by taking it out of its intended area
By adding the enrage, it encourages players to fight it the way the devs want
ashen warren
Enraged bosses imo seems less a necessity than an encouragement for intended direction
night trellis
That's exactly correct
ashen warren
nah a necessity
imagine duke but with an asphalt runway
all around the world
Block off the edges of the beach
Make it so teleportations aren’t possible
Outside
I remember the old scal wall
that is dumb
onyx river
This is just wayy more ugly and wayy less logical than an enrage
night trellis
The thing is, devs cannot completely get rid of cheese no matter how hard they try, especially as terraria is a sandbox game, so enrages have to be only an encouragement rather than a hard rule
onyx river
Not that terraria is a logical game but it has some logic to it
ashen warren
enraged duke is possible with no cheesing
night trellis
Terraria has some Re-Logic to it
ashen warren
terraria is a sandbox game
night trellis
ashen warren
Some logic I guess can be put into enraged bosses
tbh i kinda don't like some changes in calamity that moves terraria from being a sandbox game
onyx river
How did i not even think about that one
onyx river
What changes?
dapper coral
@sand thicket put a space between your header and reason with shift+enter
sand thicket
kk
dapper coral
there we go
sand thicket
❤️
night trellis
If you didn't have enrages, people would totally be incentivized to just cheese bosses
The mere existence of an easier option will cause people to tend towards it
By eliminating the easiest options, it makes the game more challenging and engaging
ashen warren
tbh
i don't understand calamity nerfing vanilla items
instead of rewarding the player for harder work
onyx river
Bc they sometimes are balanced like shit
ashen warren
you restrict them from sandboxing the game
tawny garden
if you wanna sandbox, use cheat sheet
night trellis
If the vanilla item is rare, perhaps it'd be worth it, but it's the same logic for having nerfed the reaver shark
ashen warren
philo you're making no point
night trellis
Just by its existence, it encourages players to just skip whole sections of the game
sand thicket
i don't understand calamity nerfing vanilla items
@ashen warren you do understand the logic behind nerfs, right?
balancing
onyx river
Terraria is not and never has been a pure sandbox game, i'd even go as far as saying combat and exploration are the main aspects of the game
dapper coral
sorry, is there a sugg being discussed here? or is it the potential one about enraged rewards that never got posted?
ashen warren
a survival sandbox game
night trellis
@dapper coral The enraged discussion
dapper coral
i mean, it hasn't been posted yet
ashen warren
give it time