#suggestions-discussion
sand umbra
tawny garden
aight
ashen warren
scal needs more spells too
karmic stone
@vocal grotto meme sugg
ashen warren
wtf this is not meme sugg
cobalt pewter
Meme sugg
ashen warren
wtf what
gray nebula
i remember it
sturdy geyser
yes someone suggested this unironically
karmic stone
(speedymatt in real)
ashen warren
no
dry latch
new account too
ashen warren
i am suggesting it unironically
vocal grotto
Well, that's a sugg for upcoming content anyway. And it wouldn't be accepted either way.
ashen warren
wtf why does everyone hate me
cobalt pewter
Fail
hollow idol
No boss sugs, No upcoming content sugs, and uh Soul of Eternitree isnt Calamity
tawny garden
ashen warren
also add yharim boss
pale glacier
i am suggesting it unironically
Sure
tawny garden
also add yharim boss
quick ice
It’s not a matter of us hating you, but the suggestion you made violates multiple of the “Suggestion Don’ts” and just wasn’t very well formatted (Also, it did come off as a meme suggestion)
ashen warren
wait there's a suggestion don'ts
tawny garden
hollow shell
Check the pins
void kelp
also counts as bullying some1
quick ice
Yeah, check the pins man
hollow shell
There's a doc
hollow idol
pins
ashen warren
nah too lazy
pale glacier
It came off as a meme suggestion cause it was lmao
hollow shell
okay
void kelp
dont post suggestions that're also intended to bully other users, too
kind of a dick move.
quick ice
Well alright then
If you’re not gonna read those, please stay out of #suggestions-posting
ashen warren
dont post suggestions that're also intended to bully other users, too
wtf how did i bully someone
void kelp
you're making fun of someone who made that same suggestion on the fargo's discord in a sincere, although oblivious manner.
memeing on someone who exists here isn't a nice thing to do
radiant meadow
That may be a bit presumptuous tbh. I think it's best to just drop it and move on. If you can't be bothered to read the rules, then don't suggest anything.
ashen warren
you're making fun of someone who made that same suggestion on the fargo's discord in a sincere, although oblivious manner.
i'm not making fun of them
unkempt bolt
bruh if you aren’t here to make a suggestion or discuss a preexisting suggestion
why are you here
cobalt pewter
Don't feed the troll mates
quick ice
He did make a suggestion, albeit a rather poor one which led to this conversation starting
B’yeah, let’s stop
cobalt pewter
Just move on
hollow shell
Indeed, low-key ashamed at chat's ability to deal with clear trolls
radiant meadow
This happens literally every time, Rover. In any chat.
hollow shell
It does
ashen warren
d
sand umbra
imagine entertaining a troll when you can entertain a good sugg iirc
hollow shell
Indeed
Let's praise Thomas instead
sand umbra
distant gyro
why does the calamitas sug switches between post-prov and post-ml
unkempt bolt
aight
halcyon magnet
There is a suggestion i have but i don't know if its really a suggestion
ancient mirage
what is it
halcyon magnet
Its about the suspicious looking jelly bean
quick ice
Share it here and we’ll help you figure out if you should post or not
void kelp
if its abt platforms im p sure thats a bug
halcyon magnet
yep
quick ice
In that case, no need to post it since it’s a known bug
tawny garden
bugs aren't valid suggs
halcyon magnet
why does it not go through platforms when you want it to
wooden wedge
Next update?
halcyon magnet
maybe
wooden wedge
Ah
frail mantle
uhhhhhhhhh
wooden wedge
You edited it right as I said ot
frail mantle
i'm not sure if i'm allowed to say 
wooden wedge
If it's a bug fix you're probably allowed to say it
halcyon magnet
it is a bug
wooden wedge
I'm guessing that the jelly bean is getting changed somehow and that change fixes the bug
terse sundial
@ashen warren have a mute
robust lava
Very good, definitely not a meme sugg 
ashen warren
no ban me
void kelp
If you want a ban, you can leave while muted
terse sundial
Spider
void kelp
too much?
terse sundial
yes
void kelp
understood
steep crown
Okay, Fixed up my Sugg to make a note that compared to the rest of post ML, the 5 New bosses is still a bit much
hollow shell
You didn't.
" With 8 bosses, (Storm Weaver, Ceaseless void, Signus, Polterghast, Old Duke, Ravager 2, Calamitas 2, and Brimstone Elemental 2)"
steep crown
"Even if You don't count the Bloodstone Refights, there are still 5 bosses, which is a tad too much for one tier"
hollow shell
It'd be better to discount the refights off the bat and then mention them as additional points afterward, considering several people were against the idea
That's better, thank you
dry latch
but isn't there a polter tier? or at least that's how the class setups page arrange it.
pre-provi -> pre polter -> pre dog
tawny garden
yep
gray nebula
(yeah i dont even know what defines at tier anyways)
nowhere in the mod are those defined
its just arbirtary limits between boss x and y
dry latch
I'd say tiers are when you drastically change your gear
gray nebula
what if i said that there are too many bosses between polter and yharon
tawny garden
I guess a tier changes when the average DPS of weapons with appropriate equipment changes significantly after you've killed a boss
steep crown
Thats only 3 
dry latch
post provi is tarragon, post polter is bloodflare
steep crown
3 Is not overcrowded
dry latch
you need ruinous souls tho
steep crown
No, you need ruinous souls
tawny garden
yea, post-polter
[[Bloodflare armor]]
red stormBOT
unreal viper
Put them on the same tier.
tawny garden
unreal viper
Add stratus armor.
foggy plover
omega blue
hollow shell
Do you want to mention the possibility of a separation between Prov-to-Polter tier and Polter-to-DoG tier in your suggestion, Forsaken?
Considering many many people have brought that up now
tame mulch
you see ive been trying to find the consumables on the wiki that increase your health cap up to 600, but there is no easy navigatable way to find where they are besides looking the exact item up. Maybe add a section to items or mechanics reserved for health increasing items to the wiki?
ashen warren
I mean, I beat polter with pre prov gear because prov is big fat
hollow shell
btw, wiki suggs go in #wiki-discussion
In this case tho it's not needed
ashen warren
I think it would be more fitting to switch prov and polterghast in terms of progression
distant gyro
AND mana upgrades
distant gyro
potions page also link you to perma power ups
hollow shell
It's on the Potions page
hollow shell
(They are technically potions internally)
distant gyro
and it's on the potion template at the bottom of all potion pages
i think that's all the pages that cover perma powerups
which is "a lot"
steep crown
I mean, Putting Polter in its own Tier is kinda wack, since you don't really need to fight the sentinels in order to fight him, Unless you Really want one of the weapons. Really, All you would be doing is putting Old Duke in its own Tier, Which doesn't do that much. I will make a note about it on my Sugg, But I still stick with my Belief that its all one tier.
hollow shell
Okay
Bosses being necessary to kill doesn't really constitute a tier
or else all of Pre-HM would be one tier
and technically all of HM with Calamity
dry latch
do people even fight OD before DoG?
unreal viper
Only no-hitters.
sturdy geyser
I fought OD before DoG
tawny garden
that's non-linearity for you
you can get strong weapons by fighting a boss when it's harder
sturdy geyser
are you not supposed to fight it pre dog?
tawny garden
(actually, I don't know)
steep crown
I'm pretty sure you're supposed to fight it Pre-Dog
hollow shell
OD is intended to be pre-DoG
But it is indeed hard as balls
tawny garden
(I'm so out of reach with the rest of the civilization that I never fought him)
steep crown
The way I think about that Tier is Like the Mech bosses. The gear for the tier Starts out as Titanium, and Goes to Hallowed once you beat one of them. The same way that the Gear for Sentinels Tier starts out at Tarragon, and then goes to BloodStone
hollow shell
Not a perfect analogy considering Hallow is impossible to acquire before Mechs, but you can get Bloodstone before Tarragon
dry latch
but not the armor
steep crown
And Bloodstone only starts dropping when Tarragon Ore generates, so they both become Available at the same time
They both become available once you beat Provi
hollow shell
indeed
dry latch
provi unlocks 3 mats (divine geode, ueli and blood stones)
I think that's the problem lol
hollow shell
Maybe Polter could unlock Bloodstone 
dry latch
kinda like how plantera unlocked everything
that would align the weapons and the armor yes
hollow shell
Well the thing is
Polter unlocking Bloodstone would solidify him more as a tier-change, eh?
I agree with this sugg
Demonshade devil could probably get reworked entirely (totally unrelated early Hardmode enemy) but that might be overstepping
dry latch
yeah it doesn't really feel like an end game minion
all it got going for it is its high dmg stat, that you can't increase for some reason
pale glacier
yea I feel like this is like the smallest step we can take towards it being a better armor set
dapper coral
was there a conversation about Shades' sugg already?
i didn't see anything in search but maybe i missed it
dapper coral
ah
violet dagger
Also I don't think there's an issue with permission from dedicatee since they're long gone from the looks of it
tawny garden
shadow?
I don't think permission from him is required in this case
this is a balancing sugg, and balancing is outside the dedicatee's scope
violet dagger
And anyways the rule of not needing permission if they're gone applies
tawny garden
hollow shell
Anyway Forsaken's sugg is about to implode. Do we think it's fine to go through?
dapper coral
i guess so? seems like there was a lot of discussion on it, and it may be a lot of work to rearrange a tier, but the concept is there
tawny garden
yea, It's disagreeable for some people, but it is valid
unless it's a grand-scale rework, which I don't think it is
dry latch
I was about to discuss how the sentinels pretty much count as one boss but we prolly don't have time for that
my points were going to be theme and drop list
tawny garden
it's ait
quick ice
It’s valid, and it wouldn’t be out of place since Calamity’s removing contact damage from other enemies
hollow shell
aight
cobalt pewter
Lift the Abyss' air pocket restriction at around endgame.
Abyss is a nice biome to have around, and characters aren't some kind of gods who can breathe in Abyss indefinitely. Having the air pocket restriction removed around endgame lets players build around the Abyss freely without worrying losing health when touching them good oxygen.
Thoughts?
unkempt bolt
i've seen a couple suggestions concerning making the abyss more habitable at a certain point in the game
cobalt pewter
I haven't been able to achieve the dream of making a Subnautica-style habitat in the abyss because of that
Now that I said it
quick ice
Sounds valid, but taking away the breath-restriction at any point would still take away from the time-constraint put on you when you enter the biome
cobalt pewter
Yeah, that's why I said around endgame, where this time constraint is less of a requirement to balance the biome
unkempt bolt
the pressure (pun intended) is more meant to be for exploring the abyss, which isn't what you're doing if you're making a house down there
perhaps post-DoG or something since at that point, there's no other loot to be gained so it wouldn't be a balance issue
cobalt pewter
(pun intended)
quick ice
That along with how un-inhabitable the biome is makes it unique, separating it from other biomes
You’re not meant to make a base there, rather explore an uninhabitable area for loot as fast as you can before your time runs out
cobalt pewter
post-scal is even fine to me
unkempt bolt
swallow the rock for oxygen
cobalt pewter
Also if you haven't noticed already, the some aspects of Abyss are Subnautica references
And in that game, the character can build a habitat in the even deepest of seas
So making a small base in the Abyss imo isn't too far fetched
tawny garden
((even Eidolon Wyrms are refs))
unkempt bolt
kind of a moot point, comparing enemy/thematic inspirations with gameplay mechanics
quick ice
I’m well aware, but the Abyss isn’t entirely a Subnautica reference
tawny garden
So making a small base in the Abyss imo isn't too far fetched
I think it is far-fetched
it's supposed to be hostile
cobalt pewter
unkempt bolt
multiple suggestions concerning making the abyss habitable have passed
pale glacier
swallow the rock for oxygen
actually a good idea
tawny garden
unkempt bolt
so it's not off the table whatsoever
cobalt pewter
Eat za rock to get beeg oxygen
But I guess since there's multiple of them already, there's no need to post that
unkempt bolt
not necessarily
it shows that its more widely wanted, and gives the sugg another chance to accumulate enough votes
it would get a blue checkmark
cobalt pewter
Elaborate? I'm kinda braindead at 2:30am
hollow shell
Bluechecks occur when somebody suggests something that is the same as something that's been suggested and delivered in the past
Your "Remove the Abyss air damage after Endgame" sugg would not be a bluecheck, cuz nobody's suggested that the air damage get removed during endgame before
however people have made different suggestions about making the Abyss habitable in some way
They're just treated entirely separately
hollow shell
👍
polar grove
is the reasoning for my sugg sound?
distant gyro
i actually think it should only apply to ankh since early shields are more of an immunity item
ankh's defense is like 4 or sth
polar grove
oh wait i totally forgot to add that in 
there
and tbh what is 2 defense actually going to do post-skeletron?
polar grove
indeed
distant gyro
nitpick: comma after obsidian
distant gyro
polar grove
thats just generally how i format my sentences
ashen warren
yeah dr for shields early game would be helpful
unreal viper
I’d personally prefer if they just had more def, but dr is fine ig.
onyx river
I mean, the thing with giving more objects DR in calamity is that it makes it less and less efficient, so yeah, maybe a defence boost would be nice as well, also 2 defence is technically more than -1 dmg in expert and up but that doesn't change much
unreal viper
1.5 less damage.
quick ice
The granted defense on the Cobalt Shield and it’s vanilla upgrades isn’t the primary benefit of these accessories
Ultimately they’re meant to be immunity items, making you immune to knockback, Fire blocks and plenty of debuffs. The defense is just tacked on, probably because they’re shields so they should still grant some defense
zealous ridge
paladins is the better defense shield
in multiplayer its a massive improvement
and luckily paladins is broken
so i think its a good example of how fuckin dumb additive dr is
either its too smol to matter liker regular defense
or its too high and it breaks shit
quick ice
Mhm
Though if we wanted to suggest a small buff to the granted defense from Cobalt Shield and it’s vanilla upgrades, that would be more reasonable than a DR buff since defense isn’t as impactful as DR
sand umbra
Maybe Polter could unlock Bloodstone
this was something I was entertaining the idea of at one point
and honestly it'd be highly beneficial to move Bloodstone's unlock to Polter
crude geode
Isn’t that like...three things unlocked with Polter tho? Abyss nonsense, Acid Rain T3, and Bloodstone?
sand umbra
bosses can have multiple unlocks
and quite frankly it's a good opportunity to give Provi some unlocks that actually make sense too
instead of this horribly confusing red n' grey rock
sturdy geyser
what could provi unlock?
fiery rapids
the other root ore
sand umbra
some thoughts:
- literally Darksun Eclipse (Yharon's unlocks make zero sense anyway and the Darksun Eclipse won't even be necessary to fully fight him as of Rust and Dust)
- plants (sun goddess close to earth currently unlocks a plant. unlock more plants. encourage interaction with the world)
- more profaned creatures (I think I made a sugg on this before?)
fiery rapids
that sounds good
heady storm
Buffs profaned creatures and makes them drop weapons.
Kinda like how Aureus does it.
sand umbra
eh, too early to buff 'em
hollow shell
Would be good for moving Energy Staff, so it's not the same tier as the two ML sentries
sand umbra
yeah
heady storm
What I said?
sand umbra
(and in turn making said sentries worth something)
radiant meadow
you're intended to get darksun gear before doing phase 2 still
sturdy geyser
lmao imagine sentries being good
fiery rapids
of course it's hard to make a new game stage, but post ml always to me has seemed like kill a boss, grind for some weapon, kill another boss, etc i dont mind this and i know more stuff will be added, but right now it just feels like that
sand umbra
'tis how it's been for ages, unfortunately
sand umbra
and with the power spike of vanilla endgame + Calamity's further power curve and innate powercreep
it's very difficult to make something that relies on the traditional definition of exploration
fiery rapids
bloodflare and terragon should be farther apart though
sand umbra
this is actually exactly why I bring up different types of herbs as a possibility for new Provi unlocks to fill the gap left by moving Bloodstone
since you have to actually spend some time growing enough of the plants to use them
fiery rapids
yeah but people either use blood orbs or alc npc
fiery rapids
i dont care that much since i use alc npc
sand umbra
AlchNPC is a beast of its own
weak field
Here's a vote, who here grows herb on themselves and make potions with them 1️⃣ , farm blood orbs 2️⃣ , or use AlchNPC lite/cheat sheet/other methods 3️⃣
Haven't seen anybody growing herbs really, unless in adventure maps or something
fiery rapids
if you dont have a role you cant put emotes on things
fiery rapids
yeah
formal cobalt
Is there any particular reason that the Calamity biomes generate after the Dungeon? Things usually overlap, and when they do I would prefer the dungeon remains on top.
weak field
Blood orbs are more of a failsafe than a convenience
fiery rapids
thorium
weak field
If you really can't be bothered to get herbs, then blood orbs are a back up way
formal cobalt
@fiery rapids explain?
sand umbra
this is Calamity
where everything that isn't a boss dies too fast to be relevant because of an innate powercreep factor which would be nigh-impossible to fix
and where you have multple new and improved tools to beef up spawn rates like hell
and you have a craftable Blood Moon summon obtainable early into Hardmode
fiery rapids
@formal cobalt the abyss generates on the dungeon side to not interfere with thorium's biome
weak field
Aquatic Depth to be precise
formal cobalt
Yes, but it generates after the Dungeon
therefore consuming the dungeon if there's overlap
the same can happen (although it's very rare) with sunken sea
fiery rapids
modded stuff generates later in world gen i think
formal cobalt
but is that required?
fiery rapids
i dont know
formal cobalt
or can modded stuff generate before the rest of the world?
fiery rapids
this is off topic though so we should stop
formal cobalt
I'm asking because I plan on suggesting it
fiery rapids
well i'm the wrong person to ask
this really only affects people who play on small world size though
hollow shell
(if the Abyss genned before the Dungeon then overlapping sections of the Dungeon would have big death air breath
which I suppose is better than potentially losing a biome chest but, just sayin, there's still problems with it)
formal cobalt
I mean, I also got this in my world once
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/225030931008847874/732078130306613248/unknown.png
there's a lot of problems with it
but it highlights the main issue at hand
fiery rapids
that world's broken to begin with
hollow shell
Just gonna take a wild guess that that's a small world
formal cobalt
almost definitely. I create a lot of test worlds, and that was one of them
all of them are small
gusty geode
Imo Plant to ML is more crowded than Prov to DoG
That was already packed in vanilla, but it's also the moment when Calamity decided to dump a lot of its bosses
zealous ridge
ye
vocal grotto
It's not that small worlds are treated unfairly, they're just a pain in the ass to work with because of how cramped they are. Especially when it comes to working vertically.
keen lagoon
I bet coding biomes to scale with world size is also a pain because of vanilla spaghetti code
zealous ridge
it is pretty weird from what i remember
theres weird exceptions like how underground jungle doesnt start at underground layer and instead it starts in an arbitrary spot
pearl pebble
one question, will there be new whips in 1.4.5 calamity?
crude geode
Not really the right channel, but yeah.
hollow shell
1.4.5 Calamity will not make Calamity compatible with Terraria 1.4
We're waiting on the tModLoader team for that
dapper coral
calamity version numbers do not correspond with vanilla version numbers
whips will possibly come out when tmodloader is ready for vanilla 1.4
crude geode
^
vague sky
i feel that they need to buff legendary weapons
hollow shell
Why is that?
vague sky
because imagine that someone wants a legendary item expecting to be powerful due to being a extremely rare drop only to find out that its extremely weak or average damage
heady lichen
most of them (aside from cold divinity) are extremely strong for their tier
they are definetely stronger than the normal items of that tier
the problem is
whole sedge
Yeah especially SHPC and Community
heady lichen
when you can grind that boss
distant gyro
cold divinity is strong for its tier
distant gyro
only legendary going to get buffed is pristine fury
whole sedge
I usually grind for legendaries when i'm at that boss tier 
distant gyro
farming legendaries have diminishing returns and the best way to get legendaries is to "get lucky lmao"
heady lichen
or use armageddon
distant gyro
that's the whole point of legendaries actually
heady lichen
they're good if you're determined or lucky
distant gyro
reward the player for being lucky
heady lichen
or just determined
they're meant to be good if you're determined to grind them when it's hard to grind for them
but when you can grind them with ease, they're not good
basically, very "get gud"
or more specifically
win more
unkempt bolt
legendaries were never meant to be farmed for from what i've heard
they were meant to be slightly stronger alternatives you were meant to get randomly as a nice rare drop
but of course people see slightly stronger weapon and they waste an hour grinding a boss
distant gyro
and this is where the funny thing becomes relevant
"but vebucks," nobody says, "just make their viability proportionate to their inaccessibility so the weapon balances the grind"
aha! you see, that falls into the trap of combat imbalance, wherein a weapon that proportionately powerful will subsequently invalidate the existence of every other item at its tier
at that point, when promised an item so powerful, people will grind for them despite the rarity and therefore nullify the point of the rarity.
this leads to the fallacy of false longevity, where "playability" and gameplay hours boil down to arbitrarily extended grind hours that everybody will commit to anyway — with the added bonus of giving everyone a stupidly powerful item at zero functional cost and a whole lot of irritation! see: kelvin catalyst, an apotheosis-style recipe with meme results as a reward, that everyone gets because it's kelvin fucking catalyst but it's kelvin fucking catalyst because of that recipe, but now that everyone gets it its recipe padding doesn't matter and functionally doesn't exist in the first place!!!!!!!!
you cannot justify a weapon of that rarity, because it will either be undeserving of that title or deserving enough to negate the grind and destabilise the next six tiers of bosses!!!!!```- vetus dea, at some point
radiant meadow
I do not agree entirely to that sentiment.
zealous ridge
what is it then that's disagreeable?
i agree with this sentiment personally
but i do want to know the counter-arguments, im sure there are good ones
clearly more than just you disagree with this idea
fabsol himself has balanced regular weapons around this idea
unreal viper
Also, people can and will dupe/ buy treasure bags.
zealous ridge
that's a bit of a moot point because that's not intended in the first place
balancing weapons based on their accessibility is an intended design decision
like sure its possible, but kelvin being poorly designed isnt because treasure bags are dupable
that wasnt intended
the problem is that despite the grind people will get the item anyways
what it does is makes pointless grinds to make your experience as easy as possible
like, theres a lesser form of this in the elemental tier items
distant gyro
it's fundamentally impossible to avoid recommending meta that requires 3 dead abyssal orphans because the mod is advertised for its difficulty
if you play thorium nobody gives a flying fuck as to what you use as long as it works
zealous ridge
because those weapons are somewhat designed around each other regardless of recipe
not to say calamity doesnt do that
distant gyro
and that's just how calamity is built on
you can't change it unless you severely nerf everything bosses included
zealous ridge
the difficulty isnt really the only issue here
metas are encouraged by how calamity handles power scaling
violet dagger
the only legendary worth grinding for and not getting lucky is the community
zealous ridge
thats because its a dumbass scaling accessory that exists as a reference and not because it has a decent concept behind it
distant gyro
I'd argue community isn't even worth
pre-affliction it does like nothing and post-affliction, affliction is better
violet dagger
tbh yharim's crystal is basically a legendary
zealous ridge
well, its not really considered one anymore
even though yeah, it was a legendary at one point
violet dagger
in terms of getting it it's basically one
zealous ridge
well it depends on the definition
distant gyro
legendaries have a 1/1,000,000 chance
violet dagger
had*
distant gyro
yharims has 1/100,000,000
zealous ridge
you mean from enemies before they were reworked and their scaling removed?
distant gyro
in the context of originally a cheat item
violet dagger
[[Legendary Weapons]]
distant gyro
didn't bother to change verb tenses
you don't need to educate me something i already know
zealous ridge
why make it obtainable in the first place if its a cheat item
violet dagger
because why not and then balance it
zealous ridge
distant gyro
it's literally because why not
there's also the funny thing where it dropped dynamite if you use it early
violet dagger
I remember that
zealous ridge
literally the stupidest
violet dagger
cheat sheeting it into a world and forgetting to kill butcher yharon for it to work
and yes if you're wondering
yharon didn't always have an anti butcher
zealous ridge
another useless feature
violet dagger
I can agree
zealous ridge
i dont agree that a meta exists because of calamity's difficulty
i mean, vanilla has a meta now
or rather, it always has had one since 1.3 so to speak
that's what ive observed
i think metas are going to exist not because of any particular thing
distant gyro
sure, not directly
zealous ridge
but because metas just come along as a clear strongest weapon or group of weapons gets added
distant gyro
there is always a "most efficient way to do something"
whole sedge
sorry to butt in but there's always been a meta in terraria and that's not really a bad thing, just shows that we're humans and that we always make mistakes or decisions that lead to something being considered the better option than the other things
distant gyro
it's just that when more people get stuck on a boss the more attention these "game-breaking items" get
zealous ridge
ah yes, the difficulty somewhat encourages finding the path of least resistance
i see what you mean
distant gyro
if the mod is easy then why would you farm legendaries
that'd be a waste of your time
whole sedge
Yeah, they're more of an option for you to grind for if you're struggling or just get lucky in my eyes
zealous ridge
my issue lies in the lack of diversity these sets of items encourage
as soon as you find out kelvin exists youd be hard pressed to actually learn a boss with tier-strength items
youd just use kelvin
again and again
because its the easy way to progress
until the bosses become powercreeped enough to make kelvin literally worthless
old legendaries exacerbated this problem to an extreme degree
way lower drop chances and way better stats
distant gyro
or kelvin gets nerfed and the disappointment people get now is immeasurable
which is what it is now tbh
zealous ridge
which is why kelvin is just poorly designed
its either gonna be bloat, or meta-monopolizing
neither are ideal
i would ask it be removed, but someone paid money for this item to exist
funnily enough, a similar issue to the one we face in-game
whole sedge
Calamity devs also prefer reworking an item to make it fit better than removing then ^
zealous ridge
of course
but at that point id consider it a "different item" so to speak
if someone paid money for kelvin to work the way it does
its hard to really say no to what they wanted for it, yes?
radiant meadow
no
zealous ridge
well its a hard to obtain item thats balanced around a similar philosophy to the legendaries
although perhaps im wrong in some ways about that
radiant meadow
it used to be a lot worse when it was initially released
because you could just craft all the ingredients
hollow idol
is this suggestion suggesting doing the same thing as suggesting posting and having an almost empty channel at all times
radiant meadow
I don't get how deleting older suggestions would help
hollow shell
@slow sphinx "clutter up space"?
radiant meadow
Clearing out 144k messages is not on my agenda
hollow shell
I'm wondering based on the wording if you have a full grasp on how our suggestion system works
slow sphinx
It's for suggesting voting not posting, but I feel like many suggestions go unnoticed because of this
Welp, it was worth a try, but I guess it's not worth it
I guess not
hollow shell
We expect that the votes on suggestions plateau after a while
And we allow you to repost suggestions that are over a week old if you have the suspicion that you posted it at a bad time and it got buried
hollow shell
Alright.
hollow shell
Actually not the first time this has been suggested. It even got delivered before.
But, it's not a bluecheck. Twas too long ago now.
split stag
Huh.
hollow shell
I agree with this sugg
polar grove
i agree with it too
it would make layer 4 make a lot more sense too
irl ocean trenches are more barren than even deserts
split stag
It would also work because layer 4 is a lot more open, allowing for proper minibosses, instead of just difficult enemies.
polar grove
indeed
hollow shell
Do we think Quanta's suggestion is fine?
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/736982120085454878
whole sedge
yeah
dapper coral
indeed
whole sedge
Very big yes from me also 
hollow shell
Aighty
(I'll bend the 12-hour 'rule' a tad)
How's Heisenberg's?
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/737014336622559368
dapper coral
seems fair enough
placid cloak
thats good
golden narwhal
Seems alright
hollow shell
okie
And now
How about Shades'?
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/736960416479051792
polar grove
valid, but definitely not easy to pull off
woeful lantern
i think its fine, this would probably take place a lot during ml / astrum deus stage
polar grove
it doesnt break any don'ts
whole sedge
That'd be pretty difficult to do and I doubt they could really do it
dapper coral
it would be very difficult to disable a menu option during a fight, i feel
polar grove
in that case it will just be vetoed
dapper coral
actually, at all
hollow shell
Disabling the menu option?
I assume the fix he's looking for is making the boss spawn when you rejoin the world, continuing the timer that was going on before
polar grove
it seems more like hes saying that the boss spawning timer shouldnt be turned off when you leave the world
woeful lantern
couldnt they just make it how events work, where if u leave at 30% u come back to ur world and its still 30%
placid cloak
that would be weird
the boss would just spawnkill you after you leave the immunity frames
polar grove
events are handled differently than natural boss spawns
so no thats not really an option
hollow shell
Well it wouldn't spawn instantly unless you left the world at a very inconvenient time
polar grove
also most if not all bosses don't spawn on top of you
so you have a second or two at least to get into position
dapper coral
ah, that makes more sense
golden narwhal
the reasoning is kinda weird to me, since it's not just being a coward (which is a reasonable playstyle tbh) it's playing safe
hollow shell
Well that's synonymous with cowardice, s'just a matter of opinion
golden narwhal
True
polar grove
i do think it might be a bit unfair to players who just arent ready for a boss one way or another
polar grove
because that may just be a forced death depending on how prepped you are already
hollow shell
What I find interesting is that he is only suggesting that the timer resume when you rejoin
but he is not suggesting that the boss itself will persist after a rejoin
You can just wait for the boss to spawn and then relog then
polar grove
possibly
golden narwhal
Seems like for the most part, there will always be a way to crawl out of encounters safely
hollow shell
Well that's the point, ain't it?
onyx river
Well the thing is for the most part you'll still be able to avoid them by hiding underground or going out of the biome anyways sooo
ashen warren
if we are going to reduce the spawn rate at the 4th layer of the abyss, please make reaper sharks drop more reaper shark tooth or reduce the amount needed to craft omega blue set/reaper tooth necklace
you can fish for shark teeth
golden narwhal
(Crates exists, that might be enough unless I'm unaware of drop rate)
ashen warren
fishing is a way easier way to get them too
hollow shell
I suppose you could mention that issue in your suggestion @split stag
ashen warren
you can fish for shark teeth
@ashen warren what
abyssal crates
post polter
i think
onyx river
Imo, crates should prolly stay a secondary method doe
ashen warren
not when they fucking drop 4 each
onyx river
Like when you don't want to suffer the inconveniencies of the abyss
ashen warren
i'd rather fish my life out
onyx river
Ye imo the amount from crates should prolly be reduced or the drop from reaper increased
I never saw that but rn it seems that you just have no reason to go kill reapers for them
ashen warren
exactly
i think the drop from reapers should be increased a bit
don;t sharks have multiple rows of teeth?
4 is disappointing
onyx river
Well i mean, you can make a sugg about it
ashen warren
yes but a suggestion powered by pure IRL reasoning is sorta bad
lol
for all we know reaper sharks could only have 4 teeth
hollow shell
Well you've got the crate reason too
onyx river
Well it's not powered by pure irl reasonning since rn the easier method to get them gives you more
hollow shell
And the raw numbers of all the stuff it's used to craft
ashen warren
i guess theres no reason not to
hollow shell
Ayy, an alternate to Bluenebula's sugg
onyx river
Yeh, the wiki says you need to kill 21-28 reaper sharks for all items lol
I think him being able to hit you before the debuff ends is fair in death mode but otherwise yeah, it should prolly be toned down
golden narwhal
I just agree with most suggs regarding SG distorted
ashen warren
posted
golden narwhal
Sure there are ways to avoid him while floating, but it's just plain annoying most of the time
slow sphinx
I posted that because that part of the debuff makes it annoying rather than challenging, but then again, I could be wrong and just be bad
golden narwhal
Yea, it's alright for death
hollow shell
(Difficulty modes aren't a factor in this sugg)
slow sphinx
Welp I'll edit it then
hollow shell
wait what
onyx river
Yeah, i was just sugging that myself for it to be kept in DM
hollow shell
This sugg was from two days ago: https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/736620930650079402
Suggested a mode restriction instead of a debuff shortening.
hollow shell
Which is fine, they can both exist as different options for how to unfuck that debuff
ashen warren
i may be wrong, but isn't there a item to block the debuff too?
onyx river
Oh, didn't see that one, thanks Rover
ashen warren
though it may be hardmode
golden narwhal
It is
ashen warren
darn'
hollow shell
Hardmode yes
ashen warren
i wonder if it would be a good idea to move it into late pre hardmode
hollow shell
mmmmmaybe?
golden narwhal
Considering it's themed around astral
ashen warren
oh
hollow shell
It would need a retheming yes
onyx river
Although to be fair, i've pretty much never used a grapple to avoid it and it still sn't that bad imo
slow sphinx
@hollow shell thanks for bringing that one up, also @golden narwhal I could defintely see that
hollow shell
👍
(I thought Noye knew about it the whole time and that's why he was bringing up Death Mode
but nah he's just vibing)
onyx river
Ye, i'm blind sometimes
golden narwhal
also just remembered core phase is a thing, which is ... yea with distorted
ashen warren
is there anything wrong with how i put the reaper teeth one?
slow sphinx
Maybe it could've taken where Astroldgeon (sorry for spelling) was, but we have Astrum Aureus
hollow shell
I think your sugg's good, bubsuki
You laid out the problem well and how the sugg would solve it
golden narwhal
Yea, seems good
slow sphinx
I agree, but I'm not the one to decide that
I know that this has been mentioned, but shouldn't players not be able to respawn during a boss fight?
ashen warren
imo the respawn time should just be high
if the other theoretical player survives that long alone you kinda earn respawning at that point
lol
hollow shell
Something along those lines was suggested yesterday: https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/736974751641370666
I do think multiplayer respawn cheese is a big problem but other people don't seem to agree as much
slow sphinx
When you have like 3/4 players it gets a bit much
hollow shell
pff
slow sphinx
That could work
hollow shell
That could honestly work
ashen warren
the only problem with sitting with a long/no respawn timer is just that
you just
sit there
and sit there
until something happens
but there's no spectator system or whatnow
whatnot
slow sphinx
I would see it as if every player dies once, the boss de-spawns, and it would target the players that hadn't died once yet
ashen warren
so nothing to do about that
hollow shell
m, that's a bit of a core game design flaw with Terraria
Not sure how we could fix that
ashen warren
im sure something could be done with the hardcore death ghost
but thats too much work
slow sphinx
Players would respawn, yes, but it would target players who haven't died yet
slow sphinx
I going off of "[Boss] has killed every player." message
onyx river
I think this should prolly be disabled for WoF seeing how the boss works, maybe disable wormhole pots during the fight too
hollow shell
yeah but you aren't sitting there, you can help with the fight
hollow shell
It's just that, you already fucked up and now the boss is goin after the still-fresh meat
onyx river
alternatively spawn as many bosses as there is players
ashen warren
i still feel like the player respawning could turn it enough for the aggro shifting not mattering
hollow shell
Maybe
ashen warren
what about
hollow shell
But it'd still be better than current
ashen warren
a slight damage nerf on said players who've died once?
until the boss dies or despawns, of course
hollow shell
The aggro ignore could come with other debuff-like effects yeah
hollow shell
Hell the nerf could be like
halved damage
ashen warren
why don't they just give the debuff that old ones army gives to players during the scal fight?
onyx river
Each time you die your damage gets cut in half
hollow shell
Well you're not supposed to be there at all
So it's a blessing you're able to deal any damage
ashen warren
yes yes but a half nearly makes you useless depending on what point of the game you're on
hollow shell
Well yeah you died
And if you got one alive player and two (un)dead players that's the DPS of two alive players
hollow shell
I'm liking this idea.
It's probably very unlikely but it'd put a lot more thought and risk into multiplayer, which is normally almost universally a cakewalk compared to solo
onyx river
Maybe you could have a sort of icon above your character showing that you have not died yet and can still be targeted by the boss
ashen warren
well wouldn't it be obvious who's died
hollow shell
yeah, or the inverse
onyx river
Well i mean, for the others no
hollow shell
It'd be helpful to outright show it to the team instead of havin to remember
onyx river
And also for really long fights, i could see myself forgetting if i died or not
slow sphinx
I posted a version, though now seeing the half-damage suggestion, I believe that is a good idea.
hollow shell
Nice
cobalt pewter
And yes, I agree with reaper teeth suggestion
mighty knot
me too
cobalt pewter
Because I generally don't really like fishing loot being better than actually fighting the stuff
Fishing is low effort and mostly luck
While fighting has both at balanced amount
golden narwhal
Could this theoretically be abused
Since glass cannons could just die then they're safe for the rest of the fight
ashen warren
thats why the halved damage came up
slow sphinx
I though projectiles passing through them would help to make them feel like a ghost, helping, but not supposed to be there.
golden narwhal
O, that part's already in the sugg
ashen warren
i think the attacks passing through them is a little much
slow sphinx
I though I wrote it as supposed to take double damage, deal half
golden narwhal
Ye
cobalt pewter
I guess phantom mode in mp would be actually interesting
Having dying allies turn into ghost until everyone died, then they respawn
slow sphinx
The players are supposed to be there, so why not have the projectiles treat them as so
mighty knot
mmm
hollow shell
Attacks shouldn't pass through em, that'd be a buff to the dead players compared to alive ones
mighty knot
seems like it might be a bit difficult to implement
ashen warren
maybe
slow sphinx
Hmm... maybe just double damage?
hollow shell
They could take increased damage too, why not
golden narwhal
Yes, we need to incentivise not dying
ashen warren
double damage would basically be nohit lategame though
slow sphinx
I think it's good in it's current state, any suggestions?
mighty knot
mmmm
I feel like it's either good, or fundamentally flawed
I'll lean on the side of good tho
hollow shell
Ah, that message you're referring to is exclusive to the Boss Checklist mod iirc
slow sphinx
It still has the continue as if they weren't there, though I think it's good
@hollow shell I did not know that
Should I edit it out?
mighty knot
well, yeah
slow sphinx
ok
Done
@mighty knot I agree, maybe have you use the tracking part of the tagging feature from 1.4?
mighty knot
that's what that is
whip targeting is exactly the same as staff prioritizing, only it counts for all your summons
idek, maybe prioritizing does that too. couldn't find much on the wiki.
slow sphinx
Ah, thanks for explaining. I haven't seen any priotizating enemies in summoner yet for my limited knowledge.
mighty knot
(if you don't know, you can prioritize enemies by right clicking with a summoner staff, which will create a purple ring around the enemy closest to your cursor. all summons summoned by that staff will allegedly target that enemy, although it's pretty trash atrm imo)
slow sphinx
Thanks
mighty knot
it's not super well known, as nothing in the game really tells you it, and...it doesn't do a whole lot
it helps, but it's not game changing or anything
main thing here is whether or not it's something that's easy or even possible to code into the mod
slow sphinx
Yes, for my limited coding knowledge, I understand a bit of the pain that would go behind it.
mighty knot
main thing is whether or not it's hardcoded into terraria
i.e. how easily it can be changed
slow sphinx
yep
ashen warren
wouldn't it be neat if you could make armor based around the armor-like skin of the eidolon wyrm
sorta like omega blue but not
actually im just now realizing that'd be alot like omega blue
damn
hollow shell
Squid armor
Squid armor
ashen warren
squid armor
hollow shell
yes
ashen warren
yes but for what class
hollow shell
Prolly summoner? To fit with Lament
slow sphinx
Yees
mighty knot
plot twist: the armor is actually a colossal squid which is just eating you
ashen warren
like slowbro
mighty knot
(also can we just take a moment to remember the first time you got eaten by a colossal squid I mean jesus christ it's terrifying)
slow sphinx
No, it's like the siren's heart, you become the squid
ashen warren
Squid's Heart
but like
its literally just a heart
no unique design or anything
a anatomically correct heart
mighty knot
@golden narwhal cries in valediction
slow sphinx
wait, cthulu armor
golden narwhal
I was referring to the extra weapons outside valediction
ashen warren
CTHULU ARMOR
BOTTOM TEXT
slow sphinx
Cthulu armor instead of teeth armor
golden narwhal
Each abyss miniboss drops one weapon for their class (wyrm having two classes)
mighty knot
cthulhu*
ashen warren
no
mighty knot
teeth armor: when you put it on, it eats you and kills you
golden narwhal
Reaper has two drops outside this
rose latch
i feel like the drop rate for teeth from the crates shouldn't be increased
mighty knot
it's being reduced I thought
ashen warren
i said decreased
golden narwhal
Ye
rose latch
i mean decreased
just the chance of getting a abyssal crate should be lowered
they are like 4 times more common than wooden crates
ashen warren
but why though
mighty knot
you can suggest it
ashen warren
its the same outcome either way
ashen warren
the problem in question is the reaper teeth
not the crates themselves
thats for a different sugg
if needed
slow sphinx
I know were talking about teeth, but I still feel that the summoner set for omega blue should be a Cthulhu mask
mighty knot
omega blue is classless bro
ashen warren
why not make it not that
slow sphinx
I didn't realize that, I though it was blue bloodflare armor
ashen warren
How
slow sphinx
Still, I think the headpiece should be a Cthulhu mask
ashen warren
Is this man
hollow shell
wew
hollow shell
A bit cold, Viral
ashen warren
what suggestion
restive badger
The summons etc in buff slot removal
rose latch
too hard
mighty knot
yeah...
mighty knot
but is it worth it?
restive badger
I explained why I wanted it in the post
rose latch
balancing would also need to be changed if that is added
hollow shell
(not "blocked", twas rejected.)
restive badger
Oh well same ig
rose latch
summoner is balanced around not having as many buffs as the other classes
restive badger
Well then at least remove light and normal pets
mighty knot
because it's already weak as hell without that
restive badger
Damb
rose latch
👀
restive badger
I will research how to make it implementable and maybe I can contribute something
mighty knot
you can try
restive badger
But I will have to learn a little bit about terraria mods before then
Expect news in a month or two
slow sphinx
Maybe I should try, what is it, aim for the starts and hit the moon?
hollow shell
aight. You are a confident person Vlad.
Good luck
mighty knot
stars*
restive badger
Thank 🙂
slow sphinx
@mighty knot thanks for catching that
mighty knot
also, if it was easier to code in better summoner ai then bug calamity devs about it, I would have done that
np bro
rose latch
Maybe I should try, what is it, aim for the starts and hit the moon?
@slow sphinx i came looking for copper, and foundgoldnothing
ashen warren
i came looking for copper and found fucking tungsten
slow sphinx
Atleast I can start working on figuring out terreria mods
ashen warren
the purple ring
slow sphinx
I had an aspiration to make a mod, I'm great at making ideas, but horrible at exicuting them
ashen warren
mood
slow sphinx
Indeed
restive badger
Question: If I’m going to do this, would you all prefer a second buff bar for useless buffs, or would you prefer complete removal
mighty knot
well, there's a problem
restive badger
Keep in mind a second buff bar will take up more space on screen
mighty knot
resummoning is a huge part of summoner
and you can't resummon them unless you unsummon them
so removing the buff would make it impossible to unsummon your summons
so either second buff bar or add in a way to unsummon stuff
rose latch
second buff bar for summons and pets
slow sphinx
@mighty knot I know this a tangent, but maybe there should be a hotkey for unsummoning a minion, on at a time.
restive badger
summon weapon resummoning was a hot topic I think if I don’t add a second bar I’ll make left clicking with max summons cancel all current summons, and give a summon damage buff while holding a summon weapon to compensate for the extra time holding a summoner
restive badger
But I am leaning towards second bar
mighty knot
don't do thatttt
restive badger
Left click*
restive badger
Hmmmmmmm
mighty knot
actually no
restive badger
I like
mighty knot
that would mean you couldn't unsummon them
restive badger
Hmm so maybe second bar
slow sphinx
Welp, keep the currect unsummoning feature, but moving them is usually the only reason to
mighty knot
correct* or current*
restive badger
And then if I get good at this I might make dragging summons a thing
But it would have to use a lot of mana
mighty knot
not being able to unsummon your stuff without dying would be the most annoying sh||i||t if you ever needed to do it
slow sphinx
Current
restive badger
Because otherwise contact damage minions would be broken
restive badger
No like drag them
mighty knot
Rover is typing
restive badger
Through walls and stuff
slow sphinx
O
hollow shell
(anyway I'm just gonna sneak this through)
slow sphinx
I did not realize that is what you meant
restive badger
Ok well it’s very late here, but tomorrow I shall start my research quest into how to make a mod
rose latch
not sure how that would change anything though
since even if you make it spawn naturally
you could just leave the game after it spawns
restive badger
Yeah ik for now i will only be doing the second buff bar
mighty knot
you can kinda just go underground too
restive badger
And I never give up
rose latch
instead of before
mighty knot
@restive badger that's what they all say
slow sphinx
@restive badger props
rose latch
so its kinda a useless thing
restive badger
Hahaha dont be a downer melon lol
cobalt pewter
Dude imagine a tentacle spear-like melee
mighty knot
it's a lot less intuitive to cheese that way
cobalt pewter
That pulls you around like a hook
mighty knot
@cobalt pewter dead cells
cobalt pewter
Yes
mighty knot
also no specific wep suggs
rose latch
Dude imagine a tentacle spear-like melee
@cobalt pewter isn't one of the relics like that
cobalt pewter
I was just deriving from the suggestion about collosal squid and eidolon wyrm
rose latch
the profaned guard relics
cobalt pewter
Not gonna suggest it or anything
slow sphinx
@mighty knot Dead cells?
cobalt pewter
Cells that aren't alive
slow sphinx
Do you mean the game?
cobalt pewter
Yes
slow sphinx
Ah, that explains it
mighty knot
and also a n n o y i n g t o t e m p r o t e c t o r s
cobalt pewter
Dead Cells has a tentacle weapon that pulls the player in and lets him punch them enemies in the face
mighty knot
and also towards walls
also @cobalt pewter wouldn't that just be a grappling hook that damages enemies
rose latch
[[Relic of Convergeance]]
slow sphinx
Yep
rose latch
fuck