i mean, it makes you run fast innit
#suggestions-discussion
crude geode
“why would you put a necklace in the helmet?” Bc it incorporates it’s effects of not moving buffs your stats
also, panic necklace is already in rampart of deities.
Using it for two different late game items doesn’t make a lot of sense.
hexed spade
if my suggestion dies you can write your own suggestion about it
crude geode
ok then
polar grove
hexed spade
i dont always
hexed spade
i dont always use rampart but i do always use asguardian aegis
unreal viper
wut
heady storm
Lmfao.
chrome cedar
eh aegis gives dash
chrome cedar
for scal I use both shields usually
unkempt bolt
well void sash at that stage
chrome cedar
yeah
hexed spade
@craggy urchin you did not include a space between no reason
craggy urchin
thanks
hexed spade
if your sugg gets approved it would kind of look bad
craggy urchin
I mean they wouldn't approve it in the first place if it looked bad
void kelp
speaking of approval, anyone got any comments or additional discussion for the oldest suggestions in posting?
dapper coral
only thing i would say is @craggy urchin make your header a full sentence instead of just a fragment, it would help make the sugg a little better imo
hexed spade
gage's is fine
craggy urchin
alright
crude geode
@hexed spade All subclasses are challenge runs if you do them. Also, true melee is getting buffed next update, as certain bosses will move slower.
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/369115362186231809/720007986306875393
craggy urchin
it is hard to buff true melee otherwise every fight with it is just face tanking
crude geode
also yes, true melee is good on some bosses, weaker on others.
hexed spade
i know but currently there are not alot if any true melee weapons post dog
craggy urchin
but like how do you make a true melee viable vs scal or yharon
crude geode
uh what
heady storm
Yes.
craggy urchin
well if they don't shoot anything obviously
whole sedge
Really if it doesn't fire projectiles and does melee it's true melee.
hexed spade
ok because i know they removed flails from true melee
craggy urchin
sword that takes up half the screen
ashen warren
true melee can evaporate yharon next update
craggy urchin
oh boy
hollow shell
@dapper coral You should mention its total pierce killing in your sugg, that's what makes it a true meat shield
Also, not sure why you mentioned Rev+
hexed spade
true melee can evaporate yharon next update
@ashen warren what?
ashen warren
a gif was posted here, if you look hard enough you should be able to find it
hexed spade
could you show the gif
craggy urchin
I wonder if true melee will still be very difficult
ashen warren
i don't have it lol
crude geode
True melee also isn't it's own class (it's getting there somewhat), it's a subclass. If you do a subclass run, you're going to struggle against certain bosses.
hexed spade
i did say it was a subclass but its a more significant one because it is just swords which are the main melee weapon
hollow shell
(and spears)
hexed spade
and spears
crude geode
it would be seen less as a difficult subclass that can barely beat bosses to a truly viable class.
this is the last line of your suggestion, and it confuses me. The phrasing of this suggestion in general confuses me.
hexed spade
i guess if true melee shreds yharon in the next update i will remove the suggestion
crude geode
(also true melee is buffed against SCal and Ret next update so most of your examples are kind of null)
dapper coral
hi, i'm back
unkempt bolt
isn’t “make x subclass more viable” a don’t
dapper coral
i mentioned rev because i thought DR was rev+ only so it would only apply in those modes @hollow shell
crude geode
yeah it is
hollow shell
I see, I thought the "if in Rev+" applied to all the stat changes you suggested
dapper coral
oh, that's fair. lemme make that a little clearer
hexed spade
should i delete the second suggestion?
hollow shell
You could change it to something like
"a heavy increase in defense, health, and (if in rev+) DR would make"
maybe
dapper coral
there we go
hexed spade
boop
hollow shell
That's good
hexed spade
?
heady storm
@green spindle Pressed enter too fast? You need reasoning.
dapper coral
probably hit enter instead
heady storm
Oof.
hexed spade
remove the collision of brimstone monsters
green spindle
I accidently hit enter without shift
heady storm
Ah.
dapper coral
feels bad
heady storm
Yeah just wait a few minutes.
You can draft your suggestion in a .txt file though.
While you wait.
green spindle
oh, thats actually a good idea, thx
heady storm
Np. 
wooden wedge
you can edit it though?
heady storm
(He already deleted it.)
green spindle
There we go, hopefully the devs agree with my points
hollow shell
Seems like good points
heady storm
Yeah when I was nohitting her I noticed that, I had to always be away from those at all costs because it was impossible to tell if there was something inside of them.
crude geode
green spindle
way too much space
chrome cedar
removing the monsters kind of takes away a lot of the challenge though
heady storm
Not a full on removal.
ashen warren
that's not what he's suggesting though
heady storm
Yeah.
green spindle
I dont want the removed, I want no collision boxes
green spindle
Imagine they actually bounced off eachother like basketballs or something 😂
hollow shell
oh god
chrome cedar
wait so then what does no collision boxes mean
green spindle
that means that they can all merge together
hollow shell
I suppose the main line could be reworded or include a clarification
"Remove collision boxes for Brimstone monsters, so they no longer bounce off of each other"
waxen pine
smh i didnt get an answer from bugs channel if the victide thing was a bug or not
hollow shell
Hm?
waxen pine
victide leggings don't provide the underwater mobility but the full set does
despite the full set not actually listing that
hollow shell
"Provides increased underwater mobility and slightly reduces breath loss in the abyss"
This is in the set bonus tooltip
heady storm
What the.
hollow shell
Hang on, no, I think this is a problem
... that thing I just quoted is only in the Rogue helmet's set bonus tooltip
heady storm
._.
hollow shell
All helm set bonuses let you ignore water physics
but it is only listed there
heady storm
So an oversight?
hollow shell
Seems like it
heady storm
Goes to the team then Ig.
hollow shell
(we don't really have a channel to submit oversights
I guess I could bring it up in the programming channel)
hexed spade
is my suggestion good to go now or do i need to change anything
tawny garden
It's too early
hexed spade
oh
tawny garden
someone might still suggest smth about your sugg
hexed spade
ok thats why i said do i need to change anything
hollow shell
I think your suggestion is alright. It's a good point about SCal lining up with you horizontally
though I am sure some people do enjoy having that movement option, they can simply not star the sugg
unkempt bolt
i'll make 170 separate accounts just to star it
(disclaimer: i am not admitting to committing suggestion fraud)
heady storm
=P
tawny garden
inb4 the cap rises to 340
tawny garden
it varies depending on how inert are mods today
hollow shell
12 hours is enough time for everyone in every time zone to have seen it.. most likely
heady storm
Ah.
hollow shell
It could be approved earlier, that's just my feeling
Like earlier today, if a bunch of people all say a suggestion looks good, I can approve it
hexed spade
well if you need me to change anything i will be awake for 3 more hours
arctic notch
I think there should be a channel specifically for tier lists.
It could help with polls on how enjoyable people find bosses, if there are any in the future.
chrome cedar
could prob fit in calamity mod talk
hexed spade
yeah
arctic notch
But the Tier List would be flooded with other messages.
heady storm
It pretty much just fits there.
hexed spade
i think there are alot of tier list things today because i started it
arctic notch
I didn't see one from you.
hexed spade
calamity armors tier list
weak field
Cactus armor has to be in the meme section
The ancient armors is gonna be in at least B or A if they're not super duper hard to get
unreal viper
Do you have a link to the template?
sharp tide
https://tiermaker.com/create/calamity--vanilla-armors-470124 I think this is the one
hexed spade
thats it
civic gust
add a config for disabling the auric tesla carpet or remove it from the recipe
@hexed spade i swear to god, if this happens i will kill
chrome cedar
?
hexed spade
oh no
civic gust
carpet is what made defiled scal possible
hollow shell
Shouldn't be a problem if it's a config, right?
hexed spade
yeah
hollow shell
Visibility toggles are getting replaced with config menu toggles next update
civic gust
oh ok then yeah that works
ashen warren
For some reason i agree with Mr.flappy's suggestion
ashen warren
or you know, remove the brimstone monster orbs and replace them with something more dynamic
onyx river
Ehhh, imo they are a pretty good addition to the fight, really making you having to control the space perfectly to survive
wooden wedge
I don't understand this sugg
onyx river
Changing vanilla armors 
wooden wedge
It is though iirc?
Weren't those throwing armors
And throwing is very very dead at this point
dry latch
those were neutral armor
frail mantle
gladiator and obsidian were classless ye
wooden wedge
Even more of a reason to make them rogue then
onyx river
Shinobi and monk already have classes
wooden wedge
Also can you give a good reason why rogue should care about OOA
dry latch
yeah, melee. and melee already got the squire and knight
exactly, it doesn't have a reason to care. thus we need to give it a reason to care
wooden wedge
And why any class that's not summoner should
crude geode
why should anyone care about OOA
dry latch
the only class so far that's non summoner that gets anything out of ooa is melee for the armor and mage for vesuvius (maybe)
heady storm
The sentries the tavernkeep sell are pretty neat.
dry latch
exactly, it's bad as it it. and that's why it should be improved, but that's for another sugg
onyx river
Why does it has to care tho, not every class has to have an interest into every aspect of the game
wooden wedge
You say it has to care, but why
crude geode
There's already a suggestion about rogue OOA weapons, and changing an armor set that already has a class...doesn't make sense.
onyx river
It could be tbf but yeah
dry latch
it's a matter of consistency
wooden wedge
What consistency
crude geode
Changing Shinobi to Rogue is like changing Molten to classless.
dry latch
rogue doesn't have an armor set, and I don't think the devs want to add another armor set
frail mantle
the only class so far that's non summoner that gets anything out of ooa is melee for the armor and mage for vesuvius (maybe)
consider: Aerial Bane
dry latch
so the next best thing is to convert one
crude geode
but why.
wooden wedge
Ok now why
dry latch
cuz every other class does
crude geode
nobody really even uses ooa sets.
crude geode
even then, spooky
wooden wedge
Every other armor set has one but that doesn't say why rogue should have one
onyx river
They're just an inbetween 2 classes in a game where you want most of the time to focus on one class
dry latch
I'm a summoner main and I don't even use them aside for spikechad shenanigans
but like I said, consistency. and yeah I know they're bad now, that's why we should suggest stuff to improve them
wooden wedge
There isn't any consistency though
crude geode
^
dry latch
melee has 4 armor sets, ranger has 2, mage has 2
wooden wedge
The only thing that's consistent for the event is that it's for summoners
and that the event smells
crude geode
there's a difference between them which is classified as "light" and "tank"
dry latch
relogic fucked it up yea, and that's why it should be improved
and why does melee need 2 pairs? especially when rogue has 0
and I can't suggest to add another pair
wooden wedge
Why does melee have 2 pairs? It's a vanilla event,..,
dry latch
yeah and vanilla fucked it up
wooden wedge
By not designing it for calamity??
dry latch
so we redesign it for calamity
crude geode
vanilla problems are vanilla problems, unless they're gaping design problems like enemies spawning during boss fights. Then calamity fixes it, like with boss zen.
OOA is something anyone besides summoner really can skip without any hindrance to their run, and even then summoner doesn't need to do it.
wooden wedge
If you're gonna suggest that an event does something suggest something for the frost legion
crude geode
~~what's that thing, don't think it exists 
~~
onyx river
Yeah but fixing the event is a really long process with much less rewards in terms of mod developpement that for example draedon and should be focused on after the mod is finished
wooden wedge
even then it would break a sugg don't because of needing a large content rework
dry latch
won't ooa be more important tho? cuz it even has an npc for it. and it spans from mid pre-hm till late hm
wooden wedge
I thought frost legion also had an NPC?
crude geode
^
dry latch
it did?
crude geode
You know, Santa?
dry latch
santa is general christmas. that's frost moon and frost legion
wooden wedge
Also what do town NPCs have to do with event relevancy
dry latch
and santa doesn't sell armor, weapons and another pig
subtle oracle
Frost legion in fact does have an npc, Santa claus
crude geode
This is far and away from converting a vanilla class armor to another, modded type
dry latch
old baldy being a more permanent npc makes the event more relevant cuz the players are more likely to interact with him
wooden wedge
Brain is imploding so I must leave, bye
crude geode
go ahead Sand
dry latch
like I said, I'm only suggesting to convert it cuz I can't suggest to add another set
dry latch
which?
crude geode
- Any suggestions about making vanilla weapons or equipment deal/boost Rogue damage instead.
Example: Making Vampire Knives deal rogue damage.
Reason: See above. Also, the armor sets we current edit to boost rogue stats didn't even have set bonuses in vanilla, they were purely defense (or even vanity). Overwriting the stats & damage types of vanilla weapons/equipments is a more major change and pushes too far into the vanilla-editing territory than we are willing to trespass.
dry latch
huh must've missed it
crude geode
mhm.
crude geode
It makes sense really.
dry latch
yeah, next best thing after that would be to add a new helmet (like what they did with the forbidden set), but that seems unlikely
crude geode
that was a dedicated item, so very unlikely yeah
heady storm
I agree with this, pain in the ass when nohitting and all of a sudden it travels to you at mach 10.
golden narwhal
Ya gotta hate the rubberbanding
rocky hatch
@heady storm thats exactly what im trying to do at the moment, its super unfun
golden narwhal
minimap helps alot
golden narwhal
~~thx, Chetto ~~
heady storm
In terms of just total hell it was SPrime.
You shake after you beat him.
SCal is different, she's actually fun, even if it took me 1.2k attempts.
rocky hatch
was sprime difficult due to the big health pool and the DPS race?
heady storm
No, it's because of the long amount of time both phases take.
Dying in phase 2 is the worst feeling ever.
rocky hatch
ahhh I do remember it being a long fight
plus having to kill the arms twice
yeah sounds pretty painful
heady storm
There's other reasons that stand out too.
rocky hatch
Also: is it okay if I have cheatsheet/ Hero's mod UI indicators at the bottom of the screen during nohits?
like the little arrows to expand the UI
ashen warren
yes but this is the wrong channel
heady storm
- A quarter of your deaths will be spawnkills.
- Projectiles EVERYWHERE.
Yeah it's alright.
And indeed. ^
Just prove you're not in godmode and stuff.
rocky hatch
ooo true mb
golden narwhal
@rough pecan specify on what you mean by 'doesn't make much sense seeing what the sword is'
rough pecan
Well I mean the sword is supposed to belong to yharim yet it's quite weak for the stage in the game that you get it. And even after that it gets less and less useful
golden narwhal
Ye
rough pecan
The buff it gives is good but against stronger bosses it's a risky venture to try and go for a true melee hit especially as a solo player
golden narwhal
Prolly put that in the sugg
rough pecan
Yeah I'll edit it now
golden narwhal
Also, dunno if it's just me, but I feel like 'viable' isn't the right word for an upgrade
Maybe 'significant' or 'important'?
rough pecan
Yeah that's true
golden narwhal
Aight, cool
rough pecan
Thanks for the help
golden narwhal
hexed spade
Is my suggestion good to go now?
tawny garden
Yeah, I reckon it's fine
hexed spade
i think i need a few more people to say its good to get approved
unkempt bolt
might wanna explain why you can't see the attacks
weak field
Say, if the fat brimstone monster (no offense) obstruct the attack, suggest stuff about them instead
If it's the red-ish light hack effect, someone suggested it already
unkempt bolt
i mean if you wanna disable the red hue, just go to retro graphics
the lighthack effect sugg was more concerning every single block onscreen being illuminated, causing lag
ashen warren
might wanna explain why you can't see the attacks
lack of the sound is the reason i barely see the attacks
unkempt bolt
the title also isn't very consistent
ashen warren
forgot to change it
unkempt bolt
since scal is just mentioned
ashen warren
scal triggered the thought and i started writing about it in the beggining and realised a lot of bosses have the same issue
lmao
unkempt bolt
unless there's something actually obscuring the projectiles, like scal's brimstone monsters, you should be able to see any number of projectiles
i can't think of a reason for anyone else on your list
yharon's projectiles are also being reworked next update
ashen warren
nvm
chcecked through changelog to see if it isn't worked on
before writing the suggestion and didn't see point 104
it is done nvm
unkempt bolt
yeah
in the next update
idk i think more explanation is needed for each of the bosses
hexed spade
do i need to change anything about my suggestion bc it did not get approved
unkempt bolt
but doing so would cause the sugg to get bloated so i'd recommend just focusing on one
nah looks good to me ee
ashen warren
cool suggestion fam
unkempt bolt
it's hard to just say a certain boss's projectiles are hard to see without explaining what projectiles and why
unkempt bolt
mkay
it still doesn't explain why they're hard to see
astrum aureus's lasers also have a very distinctive sound
ashen warren
shit didn't notice
unkempt bolt
you're also incentivized to stay close to brimmy since her projectiles accelerate
so you should be able to see them fine
the rest of those seem fair though
ashen warren
bullet hell part 2 and checking if it's fired during sepulchers
unkempt bolt
they are during the first sepulcher
though visibility is only an issue in bh4 onwards due to the brimstone monsters
hexed spade
should i ping a mod to approve my suggestion or just wait?
karmic stone
wait
ashen warren
for me the problem is in the fact that they blend in with skulls
karmic stone
ping if its valid and about to die
unkempt bolt
there's still 8 hours
ashen warren
untill what?
unkempt bolt
assuming the kill time is 24 hours, not 12
until ee's sugg is autodeleted
but it's still here so i think the killtime is 24
hexed spade
its not 12 or else it would already be deleted
unkempt bolt
i'd give it an hour or two then ping rover or something
hexed spade
rover is offline right now
tawny garden
Yeah, he's asleep
karmic stone
there are some valid ones yea
unreal viper
I like obsoleek's suggestion. He explains the problem concisely.
Therion's sugg is basically a S.I.S.
Furry could improve his grammar and reasoning a bit, but I def agree with his sugg.
sage granite
Remove collision boxes of moons
.......pls no 😅
karmic stone
@elder kestrel
elder kestrel
hm?
gray nebula
elder kestrel
o
hexed spade
normal sugg i dont see anything wrong
distant gyro
that's one
elder kestrel
@ashen warren yo please don't use suggestions posting except for posting suggestions
I assume it was a mistake
hexed spade
or typed a bunch of letters on his keyboard
hexed spade
sis
violet dagger
SIS
heady storm
S.I.S.
alpine dawn
whats he mean by sis?
violet dagger
specific item suggestion
hexed spade
specific item suggestion
faint needle
Specific item sugg
radiant meadow
@onyx jacinth please read the pinned document on what to (and not to) suggest
Specific item suggestions aren't allowed here due to various reasons.
faint needle
Tho lowkey the mechanic seems interesting for the normal keybrand
alpine dawn
oh ok
violet dagger
but its a bit too specific rn
faint needle
Yeah
hexed spade
biome keys are kinda annoying
violet dagger
they could just say "A way to upgrade keybrand to open any chest" and make valid reasoning and it'd be good to go
hexed spade
also saying item reference has more use in game is not valid reasoning
faint needle
Personally I didn't even know its a reference to kh
hexed spade
personally i dont even know why it was added
in 1.2
its stats were just a worse Excalibur
onyx jacinth
Sorry @radiant meadow
frail mantle
no worries, just remember to read the don'ts next time
radiant meadow
I'm just going to delete the suggestion then.
onyx jacinth
That was literally the first example in the google docs XD. So where do I suggest items like this?
onyx jacinth
Is that kinda self defeating?
hollow shell
wdym?
onyx jacinth
"If the suggestion isn't game changing, don't suggest it." Sand fills a jug better than rocks do in my humble opinion.
hollow shell
Nah, that's not the reason for the rule
frail mantle
These types of suggestions used to be allowed for most of suggestion history. However, their rate of being implemented by the devs was very low, and they can potentially be very extensive and drown out other suggestions in the channel. As such, they are no longer allowed.
hollow shell
You can look in #suggestions-voting for all sorts of suggestions, some decently major (new Bloodstone and Profaned enemies, expanding later game Evil Biome and Marnite content)
but they're not specific, they're all worded with a lot of freedom for execution, which is the important part
(I didn't see your suggestion but given that many people said "SIS" at the same time, I can assume what it looked like)
onyx jacinth
Can we have a separate channel for single changes? Lol, I could go into aseprite and make the job much easier if needed XD
hollow shell
n- nah, dude
The problem isn't that it was a single change
There are also suggestions for minor fixes in sugg_voting, too
The problem was that it was overly-specific
(apparently)
frail mantle
the problem was that most SISes lowkey including mine were mainly just add my epic uwu-senpai-sama-chan OC weapon of Auric Shadow Ore Soul Fragment tier with a left-click, a right-click, a middle-click, a right face button, a C-Sharp note, and a function involving rubbing your index finger on the trackpad of your laptop in the shape of a dodecahedron.
dapper coral
it's fine to suggest changes for something, no matter how minor. the issue is if you give too detailed an explanation on exactly how to fix it. you are allowed to add possible solutions, but you can't be like "here's the problem, and it needs to be/should be fixed this way" if that makes any sense
frail mantle
also remember that i think, like, seven SISes from the history of suggestions have ever been implemented
hollow shell
Seven? That's more than I thought
frail mantle
actually i think it's six
violet dagger
lmao
left crest
plantation staff originated as an SIS iirc
violet dagger
when they said very low rate in the donts doc
hollow shell
and keep in mind the suggestions channel has existed for over 3 years, and thousands of suggestions have been delivered to the devs
violet dagger
I was expecting maybe around 50 in all of sugg history
frail mantle
blossom trio, plantation staff (plantation staff), black hawk and spark spreader i think
violet dagger
blossom trio?
frail mantle
frost blossom, cinder blossom and tundra flame blossom
hexed spade
all are summons
violet dagger
oh those
frail mantle
spark spreader isn't
hollow shell
Funnily enough, all are summons except Spark Spreader yeah
hexed spade
oh yeah
karmic stone
When the player is using a true melee weapon and is trying to hit the wall of flesh, the high velocity lasers will almost always hit the player
i mean
frail mantle
byeah i think that's all that were implemented from the SIS age
karmic stone
you will almost always be hit with true melee
and changing a boss's behavior when holding a specific weapon for the sake of x weapon's subclass is
h
wooden wedge
if you're doing true melee WoF it dies in like 5 seconds
unkempt bolt
i mean it's already been done
wooden wedge
so would lasers even matter
hexed spade
not anymore
wooden wedge
also not anymore to what
hollow shell
I can't help but question this suggestion's validity
You mention why it's very difficult to hit WoF with a true melee weapon, but you don't explain why that's important. There exist melee weapons with longer range at that tier
wooden wedge
and in revengeance and death mode deal about 100 damage without armor.
also this point is kinda
que
unkempt bolt
yeah idk why "without armor" is a thing
wooden wedge
since you're gonna have a fuckton of def with true melee
hexed spade
ok i removed the without armor part
unkempt bolt
which might be fine if the sugg wasn't about the tankiest class in the game
wooden wedge
the only boss that can't be tanked is Scal so like jaja
karmic stone
like "this slime has 10 damage, if you get hit by it without armor or accesories it'll deal 10 damage"
i'm mostly pointing out the way its worded
because ec
unkempt bolt
making certain aspects of a boss more reasonable when using true melee is something that's been implemented before
hexed spade
92 - Retinazer, Calamitas Clone and Supreme Calamitas accelerate slower if their target is holding a true melee weapon. - Done ✅
radiant meadow
sirius and alpha ray were also suggestions
karmic stone
not anymore
also not anymore to what
also this
hollow shell
It's to WoF getting shredded with true melee, I assume
wooden wedge
since I did a tank PT recently and
violet dagger
that proves how bad SISs are considering how broken sirius is against doggo
wooden wedge
WoF is died
hollow shell
lol
unkempt bolt
true melee used to be really good for WoF since you could just drag sunfury
hollow shell
I don't think we executed the Sirius sugg to a T
unkempt bolt
not sure how true melee does now
wooden wedge
it was recent enough for literally nothing in the modding community to change
radiant meadow
it was still heavily inspired by the suggestion
regardless of how many there were though, there are a select few that got implemented.
but the vast majority were not
karmic stone
then yea
hexed spade
i mean its not impossible to kill wall of flesh with true melee, but its also not impossible to beat scal with true melee
wooden wedge
what
karmic stone
yea this makes me think that you tested true melee with non optimal gear for like
2 minutes
wooden wedge
try WoF with carnage and not a platinum sword pls k thx
crude geode
also, ee, making suggestions about true melee when true melee is getting buffed quite a bit next update is...not really the best idea.
karmic stone
also yea that
wooden wedge
it's getting even more strong? br
karmic stone
its getting changed
unkempt bolt
i also don't understand how true melee works with the whole "no suggs about making x subclass more viable" don't
karmic stone
thats the important part
hexed spade
ok then i will save the suggestion for later
unkempt bolt
because true melee is subclass yet true melee keeps getting made more viable
crude geode
Ye
karmic stone
i mean
yea thats what theyre doing
suggs like "add more yoyos because theres not many troughout the game" being a dont doesnt stop the devs from
making more yoyos if they want
crude geode
Yeah it’s true
It’s just that...true melee keeps getting buffed with more and more things. Such as it granting rage now on hit, molten armor giving a 20% buff to it, and all weapons technically having true melee hits.
unkempt bolt
+the changes to the eye bosses making true melee more viable against them
crude geode
It’s not like you see yo-yos or sentries getting that type of care and attention.
but it’s probably Bc vanilla doesn’t make it a pain to balance
hollow shell
anyway
@ashen warren What Old Duke attack are you talkin about? There's a squish sound when the sharkrons are summoned and Old Duke always vomits shortly after doing it (which has its own sound)
hexed spade
yes
chrome cedar
so the gist is that you want DOT effects to be more than just DOT
leaden kraken
aside from Ichor/Cursed Inferno, DOT is pretty much useless
Regular enemies die too quickly for DOT to matter, and bosses are either not affected or have too much HP for DOT to make a difference
alpine dawn
yeah
fiery rapids
boiling blood is good but nothing inflicts it
wooden wedge
ichor isn't DoT tho,.,
leaden kraken
you get the point
alpine dawn
in general
leaden kraken
God slayer does 125 hp per second and reduces defense by 10 (on enemies), but Yharon is immune to it so...
chrome cedar
on the player I can't think of many ways DOT could be more interesting
unreal viper
Stupid immunities are also a problem.
leaden kraken
a good way to fix DoT is making bosses not immune to them, and buff the damage
unreal viper
I was genereally talking about DoTs on the players, not bosses.
leaden kraken
on the player, maybe inflict extra effects, such as less defense, less speed, less vision or less damage
and make them ignore health regen, sometimes i had so much life regen at some point that DoT's didn't do aynthing
unreal viper
I agree with you tho.
unkempt bolt
its hard to find a balance between DoTs being effective and not annoying
chrome cedar
yeah
leaden kraken
god slayer is quite powerful, it made me lose not an small amount of DoG's fights
chrome cedar
I think the best effects are small stat decreases
leaden kraken
maybe buff early game DoT's, but leave late game DoT such as holy flames or god slayer as they are
unreal viper
Nah.
God slayer is pathetic.
Holy flames even more so.
Holy flames does 25 dps.
unkempt bolt
part of the issue with DoT is being remedied next update, so that's nice
that being that you're immune to most of them
leaden kraken
Holy flames are a joke, since a pre Providence accesory just makes you immune to it, luckily that's being fixed
it made no sense to be immune to it before fighting the boss who inflicts it
unreal viper
Oh wait, DoT's on the players.
I'm a dumbass.
Yeah, both holy flames and god slayer inferno are pretty strong.
chrome cedar
I think the alch flask will only make you half immune to plague in the next update
leaden kraken
Also, the monolith is a good idea, the effect could be good for some builds, without being forced to make them in the astral infection
void kelp
agh, did any valid suggs get past us?
unkempt bolt
looks good to me
obv it's an issue you can avoid but superspeed slingshot boss spawns shouldnt happen in the first place
tawny garden
yeah, seems fine
hollow shell
alright then
wait
@rocky hatch If you could edit your top line to say what "it" is, that'd be appreciated
hollow shell
In the meantime, does Therion's sugg look good?
void kelp
seems fine
unkempt bolt
would a suggestion concerning armor diversity post-ML fall under the lotsa work don't?
unreal viper
Probably considering every pml armor is needlessly complicated.
unkempt bolt
i'll give it a shot without just saying "give every class a unique armor at every stage"
hexed spade
yea
unreal viper
It would also be nice if mixed sets were more viable, but that's a different sugg I guess.
hexed spade
especially with godslayer and possibly auric tesla dying in the next update
unkempt bolt
i wanted to add a bit about potential for an armor post-DoG or yharon p1 that sacrifices the revives in exchange for more damage, but omega blue already does that lul
unreal viper
Omega blue is epic.
hexed spade
still a good suggestion because the only post ml sets that are unique are omega blue and fearmonger
unreal viper
But I don't think it works well for summoner, so maybe a glass cannon summoner set?
hexed spade
if more tank/glass cannon sets were added it would make playstyle more varied
unreal viper
But asking for another summoner set is a bit much.
unkempt bolt
i think omega blue is still better than bloodflare for summoner, but worse than god slayer/silva
i dont recall exactly
unreal viper
Maybe?
hexed spade
like instead of going auric tesla you can use an ultra glass cannon set or ultra tank set
unkempt bolt
tbf demonshade functions as a glass-cannon auric alternative, and auric already does very high damage to scal
unkempt bolt
i mean why would you equip demonshade if you're not gonna use the ability
unreal viper
I'd like mixed sets to be more viable too. I just feel like it's interesting to have the option to innovate for better stats.
hexed spade
also is it +125% damage taken or +25% damage taken for the enrage thing
unreal viper
+25%.
hexed spade
ok
unkempt bolt
byeah the sugg is mostly referring to moon lord to scal, since boss rush isn't really a part of the main game and already has diversity
hexed spade
I'd like mixed sets to be more viable too. I just feel like it's interesting to have the option to innovate for better stats.
@unreal viper yeah godslayer mage is not that much different from godslayer summon in terms of actual special ability's
unkempt bolt
it'd be nice to have some choice beyond do i want the funny revive armor or do i want the hentai armor
unreal viper
Ja.
I love the armor options in hardmode
It's my favorite part of the game, partially for that reason.
You've got tank sets and more damage focused sets, and you can use mixed sets to maximize stats.
hexed spade
does melee have a unique set from calamity or no?
unreal viper
Uh.
unkempt bolt
i dont think so?
unreal viper
No?
hexed spade
yes
unkempt bolt
i mean tbf
melee has two post-plant armors
post-mech*
those being turtle and beetle
whereas other classes just use hallowed until spectre/shroomite or whatever
hexed spade
mage has three pre hardmode armor sets
unkempt bolt
summoner isn't real shhh
unreal viper
Tiki isn't real.
hexed spade
meteor, jungle, and wizard
unreal viper
I like how tiki and spooky had an interesting thing going.
And then 1.4 buffs spooky.
unkempt bolt
hexed spade
tiki is kind of outclassed by spooky
unkempt bolt
spooky is just chad
hexed spade
in both versions
unreal viper
In vanilla there's a reason to use tiki.
hexed spade
no
unreal viper
Well, in vanilla 1.3
unreal viper
Vanilla 1.4
hexed spade
that existnt
unreal viper
No reason at all.
unkempt bolt
things like brimflame vs spectre are great in calamity
hexed spade
o wait i forgot about console
unreal viper
Brimflame is epic.
unkempt bolt
because you have an actual choice based on your playstyle
unreal viper
I also like plague reaper.
unkempt bolt
plague reaper is also cool
unreal viper
Armors that suit a unique playstyle.
hexed spade
plaguebringer armor next update
unreal viper
Some calamity armors feel kinda pointless, like reaver.
unkempt bolt
reaver is definitely pointless
unreal viper
Reaver is just kinda outclassed.
unkempt bolt
oh that's right shroomite is post-plant not post-golem
hexed spade
ataxia is the best out of the three (i know its hydrothermic)
unreal viper
Cause only melee has a post-golem armor
hexed spade
in terms of viability at its stage
unreal viper
Although the melee variant is kinda disappointing.
I feel like it doesn't fill a role that beetle couldn't already fill.
hexed spade
although daedalus is pretty much required for rogue
unkempt bolt
yeah
though point being, in almost every other stage of the game, classes have options unique to each other and your playstyles
hexed spade
what is the rogue ability for reaver?
unkempt bolt
die instantly
hexed spade
kekw
unkempt bolt
not even the devs know what it is
because literally everyone uses umbraphile over it lol
unreal viper
Wanna hear a joke?
hexed spade
?
unreal viper
Hydrothermic summoner variant.
hexed spade
i have used that
unreal viper
Really?
red stormBOT
hexed spade
Headgear: +5% increased rogue damage
You emit a cloud of spores when you are hit
who knew this
unreal viper
And effect on hit.
hexed spade
answer: no one
unreal viper
hexed spade
maybe i should have put reaver in meme
bc no one uses it
anyways getting back on topic more post moon lord armors would be a great addition
unkempt bolt
and then joins caltalk to complain about shadowspec
unreal viper
Fearmonger is strong as fuck, ja.
hexed spade
144 - Disabled life regen from fearmonger and gave summons a small chance to lifesteal. - Done
imagine if that happened
145 - Disabled life regen from silva, auric tesla, and demonshade. - Done
146 - Removed life regen. - Done
void kelp
tbh, the big tradeoff ive observed rly is like
specialized armors => really cool, follows vanilla precedent
however it comes at the cost of inflexbility and also sprites
hexed spade
sprites?
unreal viper
The armors have to be sprited.
hexed spade
ah
foggy plover
theres also the thing where if you add it for one class
you gotta add one for the rest
unreal viper
Making mixed sets more viable would make it more flexible.
violet dagger
press f to pay respects to heart rapier next update
foggy plover
wdym by mixed sets
unreal viper
Mixing armor pieces.
hollow shell
hrm, I was waiting on pings for both of those
void kelp
ah, i noticed nothing wrong w them
hollow shell
The top line of the Perforator sugg doesn't specify what does the first dash
looks like it's talking about Bloody Worm Food
unkempt bolt
also weird punctuation
hollow shell
And the sound effect sugg says "-old duke (sharkron attack)"
even though it seems like that attack does have a sound cue in-game
I agree with them both but they coulda been edited
void kelp
ah shoot, I must’ve added words when I was reading 
dapper coral
well for the perfs one, it is a bit implied that the perfs are doing the dash, and i'm sure one could figure it out. but clarity is always bueno
unkempt bolt
it wouldn't really get you more than once
ashen warren
can the omega blue armor allow us to regenerate health when out of boss fights? I get that the tentacles can suck enemy lifes but the prerequisite for that is you getting close to the enemy which makes you very likely to get hit
hollow shell
That's the point
distant gyro
OBA is the funny glass cannon armor and therefore you must use tentacles for the epic suck
or otherwise remove the chestplate
golden narwhal
Uh
indigo fog
@zenith hazel
frail mantle
omega healing potion already exists
zenith hazel
@frozen night ^, also not exactly a good suggestion when you're linking a reddit post
frozen night
i know
i dont want to be fully serious
i am sure someone alreadu suggested a better healing potion
tawny garden
i dont want to be fully serious
please be.
frozen night
i am sure someone alreadu suggested a better healing potion
this is the reason why, if i have a better suggestion, i will 100% be fully serious
sorry for not being so btw.
void kelp
Isn’t polarizer still pretty powerful?
latent pilot
no beacuese you can't hold mana on 50%
golden narwhal
What's the real problem tho? The only bonus involving 50% mana is the negative health regen
latent pilot
spectre healing of polarizer doesn't work when mana is above 50% (this is not written in description btw)
void kelp
it sounds... pretty polarizing, just like the intent
the item is supposed to reward you for being on low mana
faint needle
4 defense is nothing but a buff would help
distant gyro
it stacks up later on but not the most noticeable out there
increases drew's wings flight from 368 tiles to 376
void kelp
wait
ok so. my brain literally broke because of those numbers
it’s like, a 20% boost?
distant gyro
10%
weak field
368 to 376 is a 8 tile increase
pulsar lagoon
that's a uh 2% boost
hollow shell
@latent pilot Are you sure you're playing the latest version?
Mana Polarizer's spectre healing is supposed to work at any life percentage
storm hull
E
frail mantle
doesn't lifesteal not work on dummies
karmic stone
it doesnt yea
karmic stone
goooooood
storm hull
How op would that be
wooden wedge
Try on a real enemy
latent pilot
but why spectre armor healing works?
karmic stone
With this change polarizer finally be useful.
Grammer
Also isn't it good now
wooden wedge
So the vanilla devs probably didn't make it not heal against dummies
Or
That's probably wrong
Maybe an oversight to do with super dummies then
hollow shell
ah
Alrighty then
@unreal viper You could also mention Electrified in your suggestion, a pretty unique DoT
drastically increases in severity while you're moving, quite tame while still
(I'm not sure if Plague's vision reduction has much of an effect on how you play but it is indeed something beyond just straight damage)
unreal viper
I’ll add it.
hollow shell
👍
hollow shell
Do we think that sugg is good now?
unkempt bolt
i think it looks good
hexed spade
looks good
tawny garden
I hate sand's? yeah
ashen warren
just a sec
indigo fog
(use on-tier gear and don't use rippers while testing)
chrome cedar
you mean true forbidden oathblade right
ashen warren
did i make a mistake somewhere?
unkempt bolt
your third solution is kinda irrelevant since you said it did incredible damage up close
ashen warren
now when i think about it solution c coul only be usable together with another one
unkempt bolt
seems like it would just make it worse at range while staying the same at close ranges
unkempt bolt
just checking, these times mean 3 minutes 49 seconds, etc.?
ashen warren
yes, i'll add setup after i finish measurments
unkempt bolt
sounds good
ashen warren
time measurments for oathblade suggestion
average time per 3 kills on duke fisron in expert mode
fallen palladin's hammer 3 minutes 49 seconds (main cause could be short range of the hammer)
pandemic - 1 minute 20 seconds (switched bloody worm scarf with yoyo bag)
influx waver - 2 minutes 11 seconds
corpus avertor - 0 minutes 41 seconds (additionally it has awsome range and lifesteal)
true forbidden oathblade - 0 minutes 33 seconds
loadout
beetle armor with scalemail
angel treads
beetle wings
fiery gauntlet
celestial shell
bloody worm scarf/yoyo bag for pandemic
asgard's valor
potions:
flask of ichor
titan scale potion
endurance potion
cadance potion
calamitas brew
fabsol's vodka
all weapons were not reforged
another thing to add would be moment you gain weapons i used for measurment are all obtained before fishron except corpus avertor which referring to wiki page should be obtained post-fishron (boss progerssion), influx waver is supposed be obtained before or after fishron, all weapons except true forbidden oathblade are post golem while oatblade is crafted right after the player's first plantera if he wishes to do so
frail mantle
try it in rev without rippers
indigo fog
we do balance around rev mode yes
unkempt bolt
ravager and fishron are on the same tier of progression
interchangeable
im doing some testing right now and im very confused as to how your TFO kill is that fast
with higher damage gear, reforges and an adrenaline, my fastest kill is only a minute 30
which granted is still kinda strong for a post-plant weapon
most are clocking in around 1:45
ashen warren
i am playing in expert mode without revengence
tawny garden
turn rev on
faint needle
we balance around revengance
tawny garden
on difficulties easier then rev, weapons are known to be op
ashen warren
i know, i am making a test in rev rn
tawny garden
the mod is to be played on rev
ashen warren
unkempt bolt
still, expert shouldn't be making the fight an entire minute shorter
faint needle
Can't just use obs smh
frail mantle
have you beaten ml in that world
frail mantle
new character isn't needed, just a new world
cause Before defeating the Moon Lord, Oathblade projectiles give enemies 10 immunity frames. Afterward, they only give 2 immunity frames.
ashen warren
yikes
unkempt bolt
ah that would do it lol
ashen warren
lmao
unkempt bolt
though on my test world, ML is also dead
TFO is peaking at 2k dps without rippers for me
which with fishron's 110k hp in rev, physically cannot kill him at 43 seconds assuming peak dps at all times
faint needle
The earlier test was in expert
ashen warren
made tests in rev and i have similar results
it's still more viable than fallen palladin's hammer lmaoo
radiant meadow
if you have auto jump of any kind (frog leg, moab, statis belt, etc), the king slime lore jump boost doesn't work @potent veldt
potent veldt
I have none of them.
radiant meadow
otherwise, it's a 10% jump boost
which I guess is pretty minimal
given that aero stone is +100%
lore generally isn't supposed to be super impactful
it's more of an issue if it's too strong
wooden wedge
que
what is this sugg
it's halfway of a bug fix and halfway of a sugg to change the AI of the conch??
@near knot what mod version number are you on and can you send an example
violet dagger
also that sounds like something that belongs in bug reports than here
wooden wedge
the issue with this sugg is that you literally cannot tell if it's a bug sugg or another sugg
near knot
@near knot what mod version number are you on and can you send an example
@wooden wedge ok im on most recent update shown in #mod-downloads
idk what happened but ive had it happen on a past version too
anyone else?
wooden wedge
that's not a version number though
near knot
?
wooden wedge
saying "the latest" is not a version number
wooden wedge
also read the don'ts doc
hexed spade
im not sure who programmed it but it was probably intentional to have bad ai and be annoying to use because of its high base damage and dps if it works
formal cobalt
You know what, I'm all for nerfing the True Forbidden Oath blade
hexed spade
its dps is pretty normal on PBG
gear used. it was 2:06.28
quanta's armor suggestion is going to die in about 3 hours.
i think its good
hollow shell
Oh fuck
Do IHS and Gage's suggs seem fine?
hollow shell
cool
unkempt bolt
balancing high damage with bad AI doesn’t sound intentional
and if it is, it doesn’t sound like a good strategy at all
i’d much rather lower damage with consistent AI than my damage being entirely reliant on bad AI luck
hexed spade
well alot of other summons with good ai exist at this point like the forest spirit one
unkempt bolt
the problem the person is having seems to be stemming from something better suited for #bugs-read-pins
unkempt bolt
pretty poorly formatted yeah
hexed spade
well anyways the true forbidden oathblade killed ravager pretty quickly but i did use 3 adrenalines (i did not take any hits in the fight, i dont even think its possible to survive or even take 175 hits in this time)
hexed spade
i think the time is the only thing accurate
unkempt bolt
boss log is kinda dogshit at anything that isn’t kills/deaths (when it counts anything )
it has a hard time telling when a boss dies
hexed spade
oh
unkempt bolt
though if that was your first attempt it should be accurate
unkempt bolt
the thesis of the sugg seems fine
though their times definitely seem inaccurate
and currently nonexistent
hexed spade
i just clicked stop recording, how do i get the footage or did i just delete it
unkempt bolt
in the future set your obs settings to mp4 not mkv
hexed spade
ok
accessories and armor used
PBG fight
armor and accessories
i would say that true forbidden oathblade does a lot more damage then other options
even post golem options
hollow shell
@coral halo Boss suggestions aren't allowed
unkempt bolt
an interesting status
coral halo
ok sorry
unkempt bolt
also no suggestions related to future content i.e. yharim and draedon
coral halo
yeah i just wanted to maybe give the devs a little spark about future content
karmic stone
You should delete the sugg from posting btw
unkempt bolt
the devs already have the future bosses planned
hollow shell
also how did this go as is for so long
@near knot Your main idea should be on a separate line (shift+enter) at the top of your message
You could also probably be more descriptive in general
unkempt bolt
we'd kinda just thought it was better suited for #bugs-read-pins
tawny garden
Is this a bug or is it intended?
hexed spade
zapinator
tawny garden
hollow shell
It's hard to tell what he's talking about to discern whether it's intended or not
tawny garden
did you start generating random words, ee?
unkempt bolt
i can't imagine "the crabs just run away, spin back, and run away again, or they just stand completely still."
to be intentional
hollow shell
what
tawny garden
it's not
unkempt bolt
zapinator is the funny random effect laser gun in 1.4
hexed spade
^
hollow shell
Anyway, sounds like bad targeting or, again, finicky AI
I don't think it's a bug, where it's programmed to be perfect except for some conflict or wrong number that's throwing it all out of whack
It's more likely that it needs to be reprogrammed
radiant meadow
pretty sure zapinator is not buggy, that is the intention of the weapon
As for hermit crabs, well, I'd like to see a video of the issue
hollow shell
^ That would help
radiant meadow
it's hard to understand via text
hexed spade
i will try to find the behavior
unkempt bolt
as for the OOA armor sugg, i think it's fine except i could see it being abused to just use full-power summons with equally strong weapons from another class
idk if it's possible to only buff sentry damage
hexed spade
maybe the sentries could be at 100% effectiveness during ooa and 75% during normal gameplay
unkempt bolt
maybe yeah
hexed spade
this is their behavior on EoC
hollow shell
Seems like they're keeping up, as well as they can for a grounded summon
That's a pretty good kill time actually, better than I woulda thought
hexed spade
i did have post aureus adrenaline btw but they did little there
gear i used
i think a better test is on BoC because they had a bit of trouble on it
on BoC
hollow shell
Still seems decent
Again, grounded summon vs flying boss, gonna have a hard-ish time
I don't see the issues that suggester is talking about, they can indeed jump and they seem like they can drop through platforms
void kelp
did anyone ping furryexecutor ?
wooden wedge
yes
hollow shell
Do it anyway
void kelp
maybe they're on the wrong version of calamity
wooden wedge
iirc
raven moon
i want to die lul
hexed spade
why
hollow shell
Something tells me they'll need more than one ping